Question:

Thanks very much to everyone for he responses. We’re now saturated with new information. :=) –David – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We’re on  our way to Labador (from Houston) and would like to hear from anyone who has driven their rig in the Newfoundland area. Especially interested in the tricks of the route, such as ferry experience, RV campgrounds, diesel fuel availabililty, road conditions, URLs, and any quirks you can think of that the newcomer to that area should know. Rig is 33′ fiver and one-ton pickup. I’m a dejanews fan but Google has gobbled it. –David

Response:

Wallace McLean writes: Yes there is, from Blanc Sablon to St. Barbe.

Technically, you are correct; Blanc Sablon is in Quebec.  But there is only, what, 50 miles of road into Labrador.  It is very beautiful country.  My meaning was that there is no ferry from any place in Quebec you can travel to by car.  Last I knew, you can not drive to Blanc Sablon. Dave

Response:

When we took the ferry in 1984, my understanding was that the ferry ended in Blanc Sablon, only because it was therefor an inter provincial ferry, and consequently was eligible for Federal subsidies!  Of course, the fact that there were only about four miles of road before entering Labrador was conveniently overlooked, as that sort of thing usually is here in the states. Norm – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wallace McLean writes: Yes there is, from Blanc Sablon to St. Barbe. Technically, you are correct; Blanc Sablon is in Quebec.  But there is only, what, 50 miles of road into Labrador.  It is very beautiful country.  My meaning was that there is no ferry from any place in Quebec you can travel to by car.  Last I knew, you can not drive to Blanc Sablon. Dave

Response:

Wallace McLean writes: Yes there is, from Blanc Sablon to St. Barbe. Technically, you are correct; Blanc Sablon is in Quebec.  But there is only, what, 50 miles of road into Labrador.  It is very beautiful country.  My meaning was that there is no ferry from any place in Quebec you can travel to by car.  Last I knew, you can not drive to Blanc Sablon.

You can, however, take another ferry to Blanc Sablon from teh Quebec highway network at Natashquan. — http://members.xoom.com/labradorian

Response:

Forgot to add: There is a ferry service twice a week from Lewisporte (NF) to Goose Bay, but it is a long trip and (I imagine) expensive.  It says "car", but nothing about RVs. If I was going to "do" New Foundland with an RV, I would do Nova Scotia first. It is much more interesting than Labrador.  Labrador does not have much from Baie Coumo to Lab City, and only Churchill Falls from Lab City to Goose Bay.  I am talking *nothing*.  But, Nova Scotia has much to do and see and would be less expensive.  Plus, ya don’t have to worry about gravel roads and lumber trucks.  <g  Go to the web site I’ve quoted or call the 1-800 number and they should be able to get a book to you before you leave.   Dave

Response:

We drove to Newfoundland (from the west coast of Canada) in the summer of 1999. We took the ferry from Cape Breton, Nova Scotia to Port Aux Basques, Newfoundland. We drove the 900 kilometres to St. John’s. Just outside St. John’s is Cape Spear which is the most easterly point in the continent. The ferry from Nova Scotia had no problem with even the largest of RVs. You’ll pay quite a bit for such a long load but considering the exchange on the US dollar, it probably won’t hurt that much. By the way, how can you pull a huge fifth wheel with a 1 ton truck? I had the idea that Newfoundland was just a big rock with fishing villages on the edge. Was I wrong! The interior of the province reminded me a lot of my own province BC. We camped at a site on a lake near Pasadena, just north of Cornerbrook, which could have been almost anywhere in BC. It was gorgeous. The people are wonderful. They are very friendly and helpful. The roads are not a problem at all. I can’t speak about the availability of diesel but there are certainly lots of trucks around so it must be relatively easy to find. Coming back we took the ferry from Argentia (about 100 kilometres southwest of St. John’s) back to Nova Scotia. This ferry runs only in the summer months (starts June 22 this year) and takes about 14 hours under normal circumstances. It saves having to backtrack the 900 kilometres to Port Aux Basques. When we went there was quite a wind so they took several hours removing chains from the vehicles on the car deck and then putting chains on our rigs. That turned the trip into almost 24 hours. Be sure to make reservations for the ferry. Check out the Marine Atlantic web site at http://www.marine-atlantic.ca We haven’t been to Labrador but I see there is a ferry service from Newfoundland to Labrador. Check out http://www.gov.nf.ca/ferryservices/ for the routes. There seems to be one that goes from St. Anthony but it looks like it doesn’t start until July 1 and it doesn’t seem to take vehicles. The other route seems to be from St. Barbe in Newfoundland and it starts May 1 and takes vehicles. The long option would be to come through Quebec of course. Have a wonderful trip. Allan

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We’re on  our way to Labador (from Houston) and would like to hear from anyone who has driven their rig in the Newfoundland area. Especially interested in the tricks of the route, such as ferry experience, RV campgrounds, diesel fuel availabililty, road conditions, URLs, and any quirks you can think of that the newcomer to that area should know. Rig is 33′ fiver and one-ton pickup. I’m a dejanews fan but Google has gobbled it. –David

Response:

Hi Jay, I was wondering if your the average troll or just another attention whore, It seems to me judging from your responses to people asking legitmate questions that your more of an attention whore, So which is it? (Both maybe) Regards,  Boats

Response:

Hi Jay, I was wondering if your the average troll or just another attention whore, It seems to me judging from your responses to people asking legitmate questions that your more of an attention whore, So which is it? (Both maybe) Regards,  Boats

So – another WebTVer has all the answers!  NOT!! Tom J

Response:

In ‘84, we went across from North Sidney, NS to Port aux Basques, and on up the West coast of Newfoundland to At. Anthony.  While up in that area, we took the ferry from St. Barbe over to Blanc Sablon, QUE.  At that time the only road from there went about 50 miles up to Red Bay, and the first thirty was even paved!  We only spent one night (Pinware River) due to the huge number of black flies (in August).  At that time, there was a lot of archeological activity going on in Red Bay.  We had an F250 pickup with a tent trailer, and there was not problem at all on the ferries. Norm – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We’re on  our way to Labador (from Houston) and would like to hear from anyone who has driven their rig in the Newfoundland area. Especially interested in the tricks of the route, such as ferry experience, RV campgrounds, diesel fuel availabililty, road conditions, URLs, and any quirks you can think of that the newcomer to that area should know. Rig is 33′ fiver and one-ton pickup. I’m a dejanews fan but Google has gobbled it. –David

Response:

Now Tom. If you really knew anything about us "webtvers" you would know we’re called "Webbies", but since your a newbie I guess we’ll let it slide, Good luck with yor new computer, Regards "Boats"

Response:

We went to Newfoundland in 1997 for three weeks.The island is large.It is about 500 miles across.You can see Labador when you are in the north end of the island.I would check it out but I am sure you can cross from there to Labrador by a ferry in that area.We had a great 3 weeks on the island and spent most of the time on the coast .I would say it as nice as BC coast with out the mountains. No problems finding a cg to stop for the night and the price was about 10 -25$ Most things cost more on the island but I would go again any time.The ferry cost me 450$ Canadian. This was for a return trip so that is why we stayed 3 weeks. I hope this helps some and have a good trip.. Lyle. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We’re on  our way to Labador (from Houston) and would like to hear from anyone who has driven their rig in the Newfoundland area. Especially interested in the tricks of the route, such as ferry experience, RV campgrounds, diesel fuel availabililty, road conditions, URLs, and any quirks you can think of that the newcomer to that area should know. Rig is 33′ fiver and one-ton pickup. I’m a dejanews fan but Google has gobbled it. –David

Response:

Rosemary Catherwood writes: You can see Labador when you are in the north end of the island.I would check it out but I am sure you can cross from there to Labrador by a ferry in that area.

What you see fron the northwest coast of New Foundland is indeed Labrador and Quebec.  A ferry runs from St. Barbe to Blanc Sabon, Quebec.  However, once there, you have only about 40 miles of road.  The ferry to Goose Bay, Labrador leaves Lewisporte, NF twice a week and is very expensive.  If it cost you $450 Canadian from Nova Scotia to NF, I should think the trip from Lewisporte to Labrador would be twice that – it is twice as far.  And, unlike New Fourndland, there is little to see/do in Labrador — except fish for big brook trout.  <g Dave

Response:

Now Tom. If you really knew anything about us "webtvers" you would know we’re called "Webbies", but since your a newbie I guess we’ll let it slide, Good luck with yor new computer,

Sonny boy, I have had a computer continuously since 1974.  How long have you been a WebTVer?  There are some great people using WebTV but there are a great many more horses rear ends – like you!! — Tom J http://www.geocities.com/aviontravelcade/ http://www.geocities.com/tomj_ga/ Are we having fun yet?

Response:

Hi Dave, This is a trip that we enjoyed very much from coast to coast and would go again even if it cost a lot to get there.But I said I would fly there next time from Ont Canada and rent a car and do B& B when in Newfoundland and see a lot of things we had missed the first time.You will find everyone there is very helpful. and I am sure you will have a good time. Please let us know when you return what you think of the trip after your visit to the island. PS one thing I will tell you that we did not know is that before you return to the main land they wash down your rig and you are not allowed any potatoes on the return trip.I do not know  to this day why? Have a good trip . Lyle in South Ont CA. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Rosemary Catherwood writes: You can see Labador when you are in the north end of the island.I would check it out but I am sure you can cross from there to Labrador by a ferry in that area. What you see fron the northwest coast of New Foundland is indeed Labrador and Quebec.  A ferry runs from St. Barbe to Blanc Sabon, Quebec.  However, once there, you have only about 40 miles of road.  The ferry to Goose Bay, Labrador leaves Lewisporte, NF twice a week and is very expensive.  If it cost you $450 Canadian from Nova Scotia to NF, I should think the trip from Lewisporte to Labrador would be twice that – it is twice as far.  And, unlike New Fourndland, there is little to see/do in Labrador — except fish for big brook trout.  <g Dave

Response:

Rosemary Catherwood writes: Hi Dave, This is a trip that we enjoyed very much from coast to coast and would go again even if it cost a lot to get there.

(snip for brevity) Hi, Rosemary.  Actually I was answering someone else that had plans on making the trip.  I have been to NF and you are correct — it is a wonderful place to spend lots of time.  I have driven to Labrador from Quebec to Labrador City/Wabush for a float-plane flyout with my grandsons to fish for enormous brook trout.  There really is not much in Labrador, but NF is an entirely different story.  We are new to RVing, but I am planning on NF as a destination in the future.  Can’t beat the $ exchange rate either.  <g Dave Dave

Response:

Whoops, when I mentioned that it cost $450.00(Canadian) for the ferry trip between North Sydney,Nova Scotia, and Port au Basques,Newfoundland, I neglected to say that was the price of 2 passengers,in a 26 ft. motorhome,and that we sailed from Argentia,Newfoundland on the return trip.(twice the distance on the return trip) Lyle Catherwood – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We’re on  our way to Labador (from Houston) and would like to hear from anyone who has driven their rig in the Newfoundland area. Especially interested in the tricks of the route, such as ferry experience, RV campgrounds, diesel fuel availabililty, road conditions, URLs, and any quirks you can think of that the newcomer to that area should know. Rig is 33′ fiver and one-ton pickup. I’m a dejanews fan but Google has gobbled it. –David

Response:

In ‘84, we went across from North Sidney, NS to Port aux Basques, and on up the West coast of Newfoundland to At. Anthony.  While up in that area, we took the ferry from St. Barbe over to Blanc Sablon, QUE.  At that time the only road from there went about 50 miles up to Red Bay, and the first thirty was even paved!  We only spent one night (Pinware

It is paved all the way east to Red Bay, and all the way west to St. Paul’s River. From St. Paul’s River west is a gravel road under reconstruction to Old Fort Bay; NE of Red Bay the gravel highway continues to Mary’s Harbour (from where you can go to Battle Harbour National Historic District by boat), and will be extended as far as Cartwright within two years. River) due to the huge number of black flies (in August).  At that time, there was a lot of archeological activity going on in Red Bay.  We had an F250 pickup with a tent trailer, and there was not problem at all on the ferries.

– http://members.xoom.com/labradorian

Response:

We’re on  our way to Labador (from Houston) and would like to hear from anyone who has driven their rig in the Newfoundland area. Especially interested in the tricks of the route, such as ferry experience, RV campgrounds, diesel fuel availabililty, road conditions, URLs, and any quirks you can think of that the newcomer to that area should know. Rig is 33′ fiver and one-ton pickup. I’m a dejanews fan but Google has gobbled it. –David

Response:

Well, personally, I’ve had good luck with Labradors, indeed any retriever makes a fine pet.  They’re loyal, smart (for a dog), and good companions.  Newfoundlands I haven’t had any experience with, sorry. HTH Jay — * Jay Denebeim  Moderator       rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated *

Response:

Dave Ellis writes: We’re on  our way to Labador (from Houston) and would like to hear from anyone who has driven their rig in the Newfoundland area.

Uh, you are talking two different places.  Labrador is on the main land (north and east of Quebec), while New Foundland is an island off of the Lab coast. Labrador has one road leading in and out, and that is Rt380 from Baie Comeau to Lab City.  I would NOT recommend this route with an RV.  It is mostly gravel and the lumber trucks are very treacherous.   For info on New Foundland, e-mail addes: and phone number 1-800-563-NFLD You may find this helpful also: http://public.gov.nf.ca/tourism They will send you a nice book about the province.  Good luck. HTH.  d;0 Dave

Response:

I have friends who drove the road in Labrador with an RV. The entered from Quebec then took the Ferry over to Newfoundland Isle’s. They went with friends who had a fifth wheel. They had no problems with the gravel road. I’ve talked to their tourist bureau and they indicate that TT’s/RV’s should not have a problem. Al

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dave Ellis writes: We’re on  our way to Labador (from Houston) and would like to hear from anyone who has driven their rig in the Newfoundland area. Uh, you are talking two different places.  Labrador is on the main land (north and east of Quebec), while New Foundland is an island off of the Lab coast. Labrador has one road leading in and out, and that is Rt380 from Baie Comeau to Lab City.  I would NOT recommend this route with an RV.  It is mostly gravel and the lumber trucks are very treacherous. For info on New Foundland, e-mail addes: and phone number 1-800-563-NFLD You may find this helpful also: http://public.gov.nf.ca/tourism They will send you a nice book about the province.  Good luck. HTH.  d;0 Dave

Response:

Al Rolle writes: I have friends who drove the road in Labrador with an RV. The entered from Quebec then took the Ferry over to Newfoundland Isle’s. They went with friends who had a fifth wheel. They had no problems with the gravel road. I’ve talked to their tourist bureau and they indicate that TT’s/RV’s should not have a problem. Al

There is only one road that leads into Labrador and that is Rt. 389 from Baie Comeau, Quebec.  Most of the road is gravel and you will constantly be traveling with or against lumber trucks that throw up big stones when they are in front of you or when they pass you.  I have driven it three times — I go fly fishing in Labrador every July.  Rt. 389 ends in Lab City/Wabush.  If you want to go farther, you use the trans-labrador highway (#500) which ends at Goose Bay/Happy Valley.  ALL of Rt 500 is gravel, and although picturesque, it is a rough drive.  Taking a ferry (actually it is  called the iceberg cruise) from Goose Bay to New Foundland (the island) would be very expensive.  There is no ferry from Quebec to New Foundland; all the ferries run from Nova Scotia. The reason there is no ferry service to/from Quebec is that there are no roads much past Sept Isles which is way the hell away from New Foundland. From the Tourist Bureau’s book: "Marine Atlantic’s modern car ferries also accommodate RVs all year round from North Syndney, Nova Scotia to Port Aux Basques in south western New Foundland. Throughout the summer, a second ferry sails from North Sydney to Argentia, bringing you to within an hour or two of St. Johns." Dave

Response:

want to go farther, you use the trans-labrador highway (#500) which ends at Goose Bay/Happy Valley.  ALL of Rt 500 is gravel, and although picturesque, it is a rough drive.  Taking a ferry (actually it is  called the iceberg cruise) from Goose Bay to New Foundland (the island) would be very expensive.  There is no ferry from Quebec to New Foundland; all the ferries run from Nova Scotia.

Yes there is, from Blanc Sablon to St. Barbe. The reason there is no ferry service to/from Quebec is that there are no roads much past Sept Isles which is way the hell away from New Foundland.

The road goes about 300km east of Sept-Iles to Natashquan, paved the whole way. From Natashquan there is a passenger/freighter to isolated ports as far as Blanc Sablon, on which you can ship certain sized vehicles (inc. campervans) as freight. — http://members.xoom.com/labradorian

Response:

Forgot to add: There is a ferry service twice a week from Lewisporte (NF) to Goose Bay, but it is a long trip and (I imagine) expensive.  It says "car", but nothing about RVs.

Yes, you can. All types of vehicles travel on this ferry. If I was going to "do" New Foundland with an RV, I would do Nova Scotia first.

Newfoundland is one word. It is much more interesting than Labrador.  Labrador does not have much from Baie Coumo to Lab City, and only Churchill Falls from Lab City to Goose Bay.  I am talking *nothing*.  But, Nova Scotia has much to do and see and would be

Depends on your definition of "nothing". There is plenty of great hiking, canoeing, etc. less expensive.  Plus, ya don’t have to worry about gravel roads and lumber trucks.  <g  Go to the web site I’ve quoted or call the 1-800 number and they should be able to get a book to you before you leave.   Dave

– http://members.xoom.com/labradorian

Response:

Rosemary Catherwood writes: You can see Labador when you are in the north end of the island.I would check it out but I am sure you can cross from there to Labrador by a ferry in that area. What you see fron the northwest coast of New Foundland is indeed Labrador and Quebec.  A ferry runs from St. Barbe to Blanc Sabon, Quebec.  However, once there, you have only about 40 miles of road.  The ferry to Goose Bay, Labrador

Actually, you have 80km west to Old Fort Bay on the Lower North Shore; 70km paved east to Red Bay, and another 80 or 90 gravel to Mary’s Harbour beyond that. leaves Lewisporte, NF twice a week and is very expensive.  If it cost you $450 Canadian from Nova Scotia to NF, I should think the trip from Lewisporte to Labrador would be twice that – it is twice as far.  And, unlike New Fourndland,

Here are the most recent fares for the Sir Robert Bond, which connects Lewisport Nfld with Cartwright and Goose Bay, Labrador:  http://www.gov.nf.ca/ferryservices/schedules/E-bond.htm there is little to see/do in Labrador — except fish for big brook trout.  <g

Depends on your definition of "little". If you have done "little" research, and have "little" energy, imagination, or interests, you will find little to do in Labrador. You’ll find the same thing in New York or Paris. — http://members.xoom.com/labradorian

Response:

Question:

I’m considering an expat job in Frankfurt Germany. A quality of life question: Is there good fishing around there – fly fishing preferably, any fishing in a pinch? Thanks for the help – FlyFisherRay

Response:

I’m considering an expat job in Frankfurt Germany. A quality of life question: Is there good fishing around there – fly fishing preferably, any fishing in a pinch? Thanks for the help – FlyFisherRay

Hi Ray, I lived in Frankfurt for some time and never found any decent fishing.  If you are prepared to, and can afford to travel, you can reach some good fishing.  It is quite difficult to obtain a fishing licence here, you have to pass an exam.  If you need further specific info e-mail me and I will try to be of assistance.  I now live in a small village not far from Hamburg, but I should have no trouble providing you with the relative info. Tight lines ! Mike Connor

Response:

Question:

Yes and no. ) Frank (it ain’t me in Elkhart) Church – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The good Senator and I were not related and didn’t share the same politics either. Of course that’s JUST what we could expect you to say under the circumstances! Got any ID bub?  Would you agree to a DNA analysis?    

Response:

This post was posted to a UK fishing group.  I thought it might interest some of you.  I am sure the original posters will not mind me copying it, as I have corresponded with them both in the past. TL MC I realize this is a bit off-topic, but my daughter saw this and asked me to ask ‘the nice British fisherman’ about it. The Canadian News has picked up a story about a journalist who was literally branded by the "ALF" (Animal Liberation Front?) . Is this true? Are these the same nutters who attack fisherman and throw bricks at their floats, smash their rods, etc? If they are, it’s very chilling. It’s one thing to disagree. Another to actually take hot iron to a man’s back for disagreeing.

Peter, Sadly it’s true The journalist in question had written, exposing some of the more extremist members of the ALF.  He was kidnapped and held in fear of his life.  Hooded with a hesian sack, he expected execution.  When he felt the pain, and smelled the burning flesh, he realised he had been branded.  A.L.-F across his back in very large letters.  I guess that the perpetuators felt that this was only a small payback for the pain and suffering caused daily to animals in laboratories etc.  Sick, sick, sick and twisted people The extremists in the Animals Rights and Anti-angling circles tend to be the same small group of people, surrounded both by harmless nutters and well-meaning (we would think misguided) people.

Response:

Anbody wishing to see the original article: Click on the following link and then ‘Britain’: http://www.the-times.co.uk/news/pages/Times/frontpage.html?999 The article is about a quarter of the way down the page. TL MC

Response:

This post was posted to a UK fishing group.  I thought it might interest some of you.  I am sure the original posters will not mind me copying it, as I have corresponded with them both in the past. TL MC

ALF is a terrorist group, no debate about it.  I find if utterly shocking that these people seem to think that animals are equal or more important than humans.  I can’t imagine where these people get their convictions, but they can’t possibly be healthy, IMO. — Levi Always do sober what you said you’d do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut. –Ernest Hemingway

Response:

ALF is a terrorist group, no debate about it.  I find if utterly shocking that these people seem to think that animals are equal or more important than humans.  I can’t imagine where these people get their convictions, but they can’t possibly be healthy, IMO.

You don’t suppose that they take into account man’s inhumanity to man on this planet and have decided animals act better towards each other?  You know the old saying, "The more I know about people the more I love my cat/dog/sheep/etc etc."  That same feeling creeps up on me more and more often these days. Frank (stirring the pot in Elkhart) Church

Response:

You don’t suppose that they take into account man’s inhumanity to man on this planet and have decided animals act better towards each other?  You know the old saying, "The more I know about people the more I love my cat/dog/sheep/etc etc."  That same feeling creeps up on me more and more often these days. Frank (stirring the pot in Elkhart) Church

Your ommission of Louie LaPlac’s goat, affectionately known as Mildred, will be noted as the insult it is. Mark Faulkner

Response:

Louie, please relay my apologies to Mildred as I would never intentionally insult someone who is obviously adored by you.  Sorry. (think that’ll do it Mark?) Frank (goatbreath) Church – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You don’t suppose that they take into account man’s inhumanity to man on this planet and have decided animals act better towards each other?  You know the old saying, "The more I know about people the more I love my cat/dog/sheep/etc etc."  That same feeling creeps up on me more and more often these days. Frank (stirring the pot in Elkhart) Church Your ommission of Louie LaPlac’s goat, affectionately known as Mildred, will be noted as the insult it is. Mark Faulkner

Response:

Don’t some animals eat their young?  I am also waiting for some Animal Rights Activist to show me a hospital built by animals. Weren’t you a Senator from Idaho before you died? DP – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ALF is a terrorist group, no debate about it.  I find if utterly shocking that these people seem to think that animals are equal or more important than humans.  I can’t imagine where these people get their convictions, but they can’t possibly be healthy, IMO. You don’t suppose that they take into account man’s inhumanity to man on this planet and have decided animals act better towards each other?  You know the old saying, "The more I know about people the more I love my cat/dog/sheep/etc etc."  That same feeling creeps up on me more and more often these days. Frank (stirring the pot in Elkhart) Church

Response:

You don’t suppose that they take into account man’s inhumanity to man on this planet and have decided animals act better towards each other?  You know the old saying, "The more I know about people the more I love my cat/dog/sheep/etc etc. That same feeling creeps up on me more and more often these days.

I guess the fact that many animals routinely kill and eat other animals for sustenance, (sometimes including the young of their own species), doesn’t enter into the equation. George "turning up the fire a notch" Adams

Response:

Don’t some animals eat their young?

Yes, some animals do eat their young, sows can lay on their piglets and suffocate most or all of them, a tomcat will kill every kitten in the litter if he can whup mama cat first, and on and on, but that’s nature’s way, in no way can it be equated with with mans actions.  Screw PETA, ALF and all the rest of these wackos. Weren’t you a Senator from Idaho before you died?

I see you remember Senator Frank Church of Idaho.  Evidently he wasn’t too popular in some quarters in Idaho.  One time I stopped for gas in a small town there, gave the guy my credit card, whereupon after seeing the name on the card, gave me a squinty-eyed look and asked, "are you related to Senator Frank Church?"  I’m not, and said so, but might have denied it in any case as he looked ready to dump sugar in my gas tank or some other dastardly deed.  The good Senator and I were not related and didn’t share the same politics either.

Response:

Absolutely not George, as I stated in an earlier post, equating the animal kingdom which operates on inborn instinct to do what is necessary to survive, to "man" is bogus.  Ascribing human traits to animals is a mistake. So if a tomcat kills the litter of kittens he finds, we are horrified.  But he does that for a reason…..he is "offing" future competition for breeding the available female cats.  But if humans do that, it is mass murder.  The two don’t equate at any level.  My favorite pussy cat, who purrs on my lap and nuzzles me, and makes me feel all warm and fuzzy, will sneak out in the yard and try to kill a bird….she is living in two worlds, ours and hers. If I catch her eating a bird do I beat the shit out of her…no way.  I recognize she still has that hunter instinct of her breed.  We, on the other hand, are supposed to be "civilized," whatever the hell that means in this day and age. Frank (trying to piss on George’s fire) Church

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You don’t suppose that they take into account man’s inhumanity to man on this planet and have decided animals act better towards each other?  You know the old saying, "The more I know about people the more I love my cat/dog/sheep/etc etc. That same feeling creeps up on me more and more often these days. I guess the fact that many animals routinely kill and eat other animals for sustenance, (sometimes including the young of their own species), doesn’t enter into the equation. George "turning up the fire a notch" Adams

Response:

Ascribing human traits to animals is a mistake.

Frank, I guess I misunderstood your your post, because I thought that was exactly what you were doing. (i.e. "good" animals vs. "bad" humans) Animals are niether good nor bad…..they are just animals. A rattlesnake can kill you, and a dog can be your faithful companion for many years, but is the dog "better" than the rattlesnake? I don’t think so….they are what they are. Humans are subject to many failings, and because we have free will we can be held accountable for our actions, and judged by our peers to be good or bad. As more people populate the earth, we will see more of the bad, especially since the media will show it to us at every opportunity.  On the whole, are animals "better" than humans? I say no. George Adams

Response:

I see you remember Senator Frank Church of Idaho.  Evidently he wasn’t too popular in some quarters in Idaho.  One time I stopped for gas in a small town there, gave the guy my credit card, whereupon after seeing the name on the card, gave me a squinty-eyed look and asked, "are you related to Senator Frank Church?"  I’m not, and said so, but might have denied it in any case as he looked ready to dump sugar in my gas tank or some other dastardly deed.  The good Senator and I were not related and didn’t share the same politics either.

Sen. Frank Church was one of the all-time great national figures. He did more for conservation anyone else in politics I can think of, with the possible exception of Teddy Rooseveldt. The Frank Church Wilderness in Idaho is named after him. It’s spectacular, enclosing the finest wilderness river in the lower 48 — the Middle Fork of the Salmon. I’m just sickened by the cast of disreputable characters that have taken over Idaho politics at the national level. I miss you, Frank, and I miss Sen.Chafee of Rhode Island, a Republican who wasn’t afraid to stand up for the public interest. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

You’re right of course, and Sen. Church should have been recognized with having a wilderness area named in his honor, at the least.  I didn’t mean to denigrate him, and hope you didn’t take it that way.  

Of course I didn’t, Frank. I’m sorry to have implied that. The FCWA is some spectacular country that I’d love to see up close and personal, like say, astride a horse on a pack-in flyfishing trip.

What you have to do is to take a week-long raft trip down the Middle Fork. There are other ways to see this country, but a raft (or drift boat) trip is the best. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I see you remember Senator Frank Church of Idaho.  Evidently he wasn’t too popular in some quarters in Idaho.  One time I stopped for gas in a small town there, gave the guy my credit card, whereupon after seeing the name on the card, gave me a squinty-eyed look and asked, "are you related to Senator Frank Church?"  I’m not, and said so, but might have denied it in any case as he looked ready to dump sugar in my gas tank or some other dastardly deed.  The good Senator and I were not related and didn’t share the same politics either. Sen. Frank Church was one of the all-time great national figures. He did more for conservation anyone else in politics I can think of, with the possible exception of Teddy Rooseveldt. The Frank Church Wilderness in Idaho is named after him. It’s spectacular, enclosing the finest wilderness river in the lower 48 — the Middle Fork of the Salmon. I’m just sickened by the cast of disreputable characters that have taken over Idaho politics at the national level. I miss you, Frank, and I miss Sen.Chafee of Rhode Island, a Republican who wasn’t afraid to stand up for the public interest. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

They named the north loop in Dallas the LBJ Freeway in honor of LBJ because they stole all of the land.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sen. Frank Church was one of the all-time great national figures. He did more for conservation anyone else in politics I can think of, with the possible exception of Teddy Rooseveldt. The Frank Church Wilderness in Idaho is named after him. It’s spectacular, enclosing the finest wilderness river in the lower 48 — the Middle Fork of the Salmon. I’m just sickened by the cast of disreputable characters that have taken over Idaho politics at the national level. I miss you, Frank, and I miss Sen.Chafee of Rhode Island, a Republican who wasn’t afraid to stand up for the public interest.

You’re right of course, and Sen. Church should have been recognized with having a wilderness area named in his honor, at the least.  I didn’t mean to denigrate him, and hope you didn’t take it that way.  The FCWA is some spectacular country that I’d love to see up close and personal, like say, astride a horse on a pack-in flyfishing trip. That will probably never happen but at least it’s nice to know it’s there, and waiting. Frank Church Elkhart, IN USAF RETIRED – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

They named the north loop in Dallas the LBJ Freeway in honor of LBJ because they stole all of the land.

        in view of the fact that "land stealing" is a well known core component of successful capitalism, i should think that lbj would occupy a prime space in your pantheon of heroes, david.         not that i, too, am *not* a capitalist; it just seems that if one is labeled a "democrat" (whatever that is), you refuse to believe that he can also be a capitalist.  i think you will have to admit that materialism is no respecter of political labels. wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

   in view of the fact that "land stealing" is a well known core component of successful capitalism, i should think that lbj would occupy a prime space in your pantheon of heroes, david.

Not to mention the fact that LBJ was a *serious* poon hound<g. — Charlie…

Response:

LBJ because they stole all of the land. My parents house was just a couple of miles north of where they built the LBJ Freeway and in our house it was always refered to as the SOB Freeway. Big Dale

But there was no one better at getting out the cementary vote than LBJ. Whether you were a republican or democrat…if you were dead…you always casted your vote for Lyndon. obroff (this one should be fun): How many believe that LBJ had a hand in the Dallas assassination of JFK? Waldo — Ezflyfish.com http://www.ezflyfish.com BRBG http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 (828)963-5001

Response:

LBJ because they stole all of the land.

My parents house was just a couple of miles north of where they built the LBJ Freeway and in our house it was always refered to as the SOB Freeway. Big Dale

Response:

obroff (this one should be fun): How many believe that LBJ had a hand in the Dallas assassination of JFK? Waldo

Just a note Waldo, the MOSAD ran a full scale scenario of the Dallas shooting with their best marksmen and could not duplicate the event. Their official report said that Oswald didn’t do it.  The KGB didn’t do it and the Kremlin believed Kennedy to be the one man in Washington they could trust to some degree.  I wonder if they have the same faith in Clinton? Remember the quote from the Navigator in Dune?  "…plots within plots, within plots…" — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

Response:

Remember the quote from the Navigator in Dune?  "…plots within plots, within plots…"

Wayne, for an old feller you sure seem rather adept with pop culture references. Mu

Response:

In article <Pine.SOL.4.10.9911101035150.17986- Wayne, for an old feller you sure seem rather adept with pop culture references. Mu

Mu, I’ve never been too bashful to steal the good stuff from anybody’s culture!! — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

Response:

The good Senator and I were not related and didn’t share the same politics either.

Of course that’s JUST what we could expect you to say under the circumstances! Got any ID bub?  Would you agree to a DNA analysis?    

Response:

How many believe that LBJ had a hand in the Dallas assassination of JFK?

Dallas assassinated an airport?  Huh?  Where was I in ‘63?

Response:

Question:

Visit the Austin Flyfishers at http:\www.austinflyfishers.org We have lot’s of local knowledge and some great outings

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am interested in fly-fishing more and the nearest fresh water fishing is really the hill country.  Any recommendations on which rivers to fish for bass?  I know they stock the guadalupe with trout in january, but that is not exactly my idea of fishing.  You must have corn to catch those fish! Thanks    -**** Posted from RemarQ, http://www.remarq.com/?c ****-  Search and Read Usenet Discussions in your Browser

Response:

Thanks for all the replies.  I have ordered my book and look forward to trying my luck here in Texas. Anyone ever fish the Guadalupe near Comfort?  I will be there this weekend. When I was a kid, I used to catch bass and perch pretty easily there.  Last time I tried about two years ago I saw zero fish. Dave    -**** Posted from RemarQ, http://www.remarq.com/?c ****-  Search and Read Usenet Discussions in your Browser

Response:

I fish every weekend on the Guadalupe under the Canyon Lake dam.  I always catch at least some small Rainbows. I am new to Fishing for trout but I have seen 15 to 20 Rainbows all over 12" (some close to 18") within 300 yards of the Dam.  Guadalupe bass are the prime target for Texas shallow rivers, they spend a lot of tie in moving water and pull like a largemouth 150% as large. Bluegills and all sortse of sunfishes are everywhere.  People are now cathcing a Gualdalupe-smallmouth hybrids (world record in the San Marcos River) in the Blanco and other beautiful clearwater texas streams.

Response:

I haven’t fished the Guadelupe in several years…just never had much confidence in that river. After looking at some web sites, scanning recent reports, have become interested again. Mostly curious as to details re DRY fly fishing on this river, as I’ve heard mostly about nymphs and wets. Do dries work here? What sections, what times of day, time of year, types of flies? Hope to start getting out there in Dec.-Jan. Thanks! ACP – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I fish every weekend on the Guadalupe under the Canyon Lake dam.  I always catch at least some small Rainbows. I am new to Fishing for trout but I have seen 15 to 20 Rainbows all over 12" (some close to 18") within 300 yards of the Dam.  Guadalupe bass are the prime target for Texas shallow rivers, they spend a lot of tie in moving water and pull like a largemouth 150% as large. Bluegills and all sortse of sunfishes are everywhere.  People are now cathcing a Gualdalupe-smallmouth hybrids (world record in the San Marcos River) in the Blanco and other beautiful clearwater texas streams.

Response:

Go by the Austin Angler and pick up a copy of "Fly Fishing the Texas Hill Country" by Bud Priddy.  It has pretty much all you need to get you going. Course if you already have a can of corn and want to stand elbow to elbow …. -jerry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am interested in fly-fishing more and the nearest fresh water fishing is really the hill country.  Any recommendations on which rivers to fish for bass?  I know they stock the guadalupe with trout in january, but that is not exactly my idea of fishing.  You must have corn to catch those fish! Thanks    -**** Posted from RemarQ, http://www.remarq.com/?c ****-  Search and Read Usenet Discussions in your Browser

Response:

I was in there this afternoon and they still had a stack of them. -jerry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Last I heard, Bud Priddy’s book was out of print.  I bought mine about 3 months ago at Austin Anglers, which still had some, so check there. <<I am interested in fly-fishing more and the nearest fresh water fishing is really the hill country.  Any recommendations on which rivers to fish Suggest you get a copy of "Fly-Fishing the Texas Hill Country" by Bud Priddy. It has complete information on all the rivers in the hill country. The Guadalupe has a year round trout population (the only one in Texas). You don’t have to use corn to catch them. The Guadalupe also has large and smallmouth bass and some great sunfish fishing. Check with Gruene Outfitters in Gruene. They can give you some good information. Also, Austin Anglers is a good resource. Join a local flyfishing club.

Response:

I am interested in fly-fishing more and the nearest fresh water fishing is really the hill country.  Any recommendations on which rivers to fish for bass?  I know they stock the guadalupe with trout in january, but that is not exactly my idea of fishing.  You must have corn to catch those fish! Thanks    -**** Posted from RemarQ, http://www.remarq.com/?c ****-  Search and Read Usenet Discussions in your Browser

Response:

<<I am interested in fly-fishing more and the nearest fresh water fishing is really the hill country.  Any recommendations on which rivers to fish Suggest you get a copy of "Fly-Fishing the Texas Hill Country" by Bud Priddy. It has complete information on all the rivers in the hill country. The Guadalupe has a year round trout population (the only one in Texas). You don’t have to use corn to catch them. The Guadalupe also has large and smallmouth bass and some great sunfish fishing. Check with Gruene Outfitters in Gruene. They can give you some good information. Also, Austin Anglers is a good resource. Join a local flyfishing club.

Response:

Last I heard, Bud Priddy’s book was out of print.  I bought mine about 3 months ago at Austin Anglers, which still had some, so check there. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <<I am interested in fly-fishing more and the nearest fresh water fishing is really the hill country.  Any recommendations on which rivers to fish Suggest you get a copy of "Fly-Fishing the Texas Hill Country" by Bud Priddy. It has complete information on all the rivers in the hill country. The Guadalupe has a year round trout population (the only one in Texas). You don’t have to use corn to catch them. The Guadalupe also has large and smallmouth bass and some great sunfish fishing. Check with Gruene Outfitters in Gruene. They can give you some good information. Also, Austin Anglers is a good resource. Join a local flyfishing club.

Response:

Question:

I’m moving to Pensacola FL and was wondering what kind of FF I can expect to find there.  Someone told me redfish.  Anything else, and what equipment am I looking at buying? — Work like you don’t need money Love like you’ve never been hurt Dance like nobody’s watching Keith Friesen

Response:

writes: I’m moving to Pensacola FL and was wondering what kind of FF I can expect to find there.  Someone told me redfish.  Anything else, and what equipment am I looking at buying?

Redfish and speckled trout mostly for SW fly fishing tho other species are there including mackerals (sp?), bonita, and the rare sailfish comes into the shallow water. (I once hooked a small tarpon between Gulf Breeze and Fort Walton). Fresh water includes of course bass, bream. I would think a 7 weight would be a good all around rod down there though I carry a 6 and an 8 wt when I visit the family. There is an active FF program at the junior college, a good fff club and the SE FFF conclave is held there every two or three years (gulf breeze actually). Lots of fishing in the bay, the bayous, sound, and salt marshes from Appalachicola to Mobile Bay. Plus numerous fresh water ponds and rivers. Wayne Knight Geneva IL                            

Response:

Question:

I have not fished the Beaverkill since about 1993. I was a regular before that time and was wondering what the current state of the river is. The fly shops told me how great the fishing was after I found out of a drought induced fish kill that supposedly wiped out 80% of the fish. So much for their opinion.  What I have heard hasn’t been good but I would like to hear from anyone with first hand info.

Response:

I have not fished the Beaverkill since about 1993. I was a regular before that time and was wondering what the current state of the river is. The fly shops told me how great the fishing was after I found out of a drought induced fish kill that supposedly wiped out 80% of the fish. So much for their opinion.  What I have heard hasn’t been good but I would like to hear from anyone with first hand info.

I fished the Beaverkill in late spring last year around Arlington. Fished for about 4 hrs. Caught 2 small Browns. Was my first  and probably my last experience with the Beaverkill. The fishing was very slow! I fish mostly in the White watershed and certainly the action is better here. My $0.02. Tony

Response:

This year the Beaverkill is finally looking up, although we did have good success on the the Lower Beaverkill almost every time we went out last year.  But this year, the trout even look bigger, and with no anchor-ice or flooding having damaged our chances, we know it will be a fine season. M&M – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have not fished the Beaverkill since about 1993. I was a regular before that time and was wondering what the current state of the river is. The fly shops told me how great the fishing was after I found out of a drought induced fish kill that supposedly wiped out 80% of the fish. So much for their opinion.  What I have heard hasn’t been good but I would like to hear from anyone with first hand info. I fished the Beaverkill in late spring last year around Arlington. Fished for about 4 hrs. Caught 2 small Browns. Was my first  and probably my last experience with the Beaverkill. The fishing was very slow! I fish mostly in the White watershed and certainly the action is better here. My $0.02. Tony

Response:

Howdy, it;s the typical question of ‘do you know how the beaverkill is fishing? I’m thinking of heading there on fri. Thanks for any help.

Response:

Howdy, it;s the typical question of ‘do you know how the beaverkill is fishing? I’m thinking of heading there on fri. Thanks for any help.

Give a call to Dette’s Fly Shop (I forget the number) in Roscoe.  They have a daily recording on stream conditions and hatches. — Stan READ ABOUT A CYBERSTALKER: http://www.geocities.com/~hitchcockc/story.html http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/6006/woodside.html

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  Rainbows and cutts will interbreed in the wild, but it’s a little more complicated than that.  For example, they won’t interbreed where they evolved together in the same river because they occupy different niches and spawn differently (West slope cutts and redband rainbow exist together in several rivers).  However, if you introduce rainbow into waters where cutthroats are native and rainbow are not, such as the Madison, they will interbreed.  Such is the danger of stocking. I don’t normally like to see stocking in rivers that support wild trout, but if the rainbows (non-native planted in the 30’s) are done for in the Madison, and they want to re-introduce the native west slope cutthroat from pure strain stocks (which they believe they have), it would be nice to have the native fish back in the Madison.  

Hi Dan, Glad to see you back on the group. The Montana fish and game people I’ve talked with also advised that the cutthroat spawn in the tributaries where there is not whirling disease and stay there for a couple of years before returning to the main river. In that time their skeletal structure grows from grissle to bone — their skeleton is supposed to be only effected by the disease when it is in the grissle state. Rainbows on the others hand spawn in the tributaries and return to the main river soon after while their skeletal structure is still grissle. Have a great 1997. — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (97 materials catalog) http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

Response:

 Rainbows and cutts will interbreed in the wild, but it’s a little more complicated than that.  For example, they won’t interbreed where they evolved together in the same river because they occupy different niches and spawn differently (West slope cutts and redband rainbow exist together in several rivers).  However, if you introduce rainbow into waters where cutthroats are native and rainbow are not, such as the Madison, they will interbreed.  Such is the danger of stocking.

The Montana DFW page ( http://fwp.mt.gov/ ) has some great info on the project.   The impression I get is that even though cutts and bows will cross breed when stocked together, they don’t expect much in the way of cross breeding because there are so few rainbows left in the Madison. I don’t normally like to see stocking in rivers that support wild trout, but if the rainbows (non-native planted in the 30’s) are done for in the Madison, and they want to re-introduce the native west slope cutthroat from pure strain stocks (which they believe they have), it would be nice to have the native fish back in the Madison.  the areas they are talking about re-stocking with Cutts is being checked for the prescence of tubifex worms (carriers of whirling disease) and thought to have low quantities of both tubifex worms and infected rainbows. The question then becomes how much stocking is enough, and how long will it take to develop wild natives from the hatchery natives.   Of course, they could just leave it alone and let the brown trout take over, but then they aren’t as easy to catch as the cutts.                                          Hmmmmm,                                               Dan Dan Gracia                                                               Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

Response:

Al, Thanks for sharing this information with us.  This is indeed very interesting.  Here in Oregon we have a lot of native cutthroat and they are great to fish.  They will attack a fly like it’s the last morsel on earth.  The hatcheries like to stock them (they are hardier) as well as a cross they produce with rainbow they call a cutbow.  I wonder if the cutts and rainbow would cross in the Madison.  I don’t know if they will cross in the wild.  we have streams that contain both.  If they did where would the young grow?

  Rainbows and cutts will interbreed in the wild, but it’s a little more complicated than that.  For example, they won’t interbreed where they evolved together in the same river because they occupy different niches and spawn differently (West slope cutts and redband rainbow exist together in several rivers).  However, if you introduce rainbow into waters where cutthroats are native and rainbow are not, such as the Madison, they will interbreed.  Such is the danger of stocking. Rob Gregoire                                                        | Pocatello, Id              

Response:

  There is a plan afoot to stock the Madison  with Westslope Cutt’s . Visit     http"//fwp.mt.gov/    and take a look. Sounds good so far … any thoughts ? if so, CC to   Dave Hagengruber   Harry

Hi Harry I know there will be those against the plan but after a long conversation with a Montana fish biologist I’m supporting the plan.  What he shared with me was very encouraging based on a whole lot of information I can not put in here but basically this is it in a very boiled down version: Cutthroat trout spawn in small tributaries and REMAIN there for a couple of years (while their bones turn from grissle to real bone). Rainbows spawn in the tributaries and return to the main river while their bones are still grissle rather than bone. Supposedly whirling disease attacks the fish while their skeletal structure is still grissle. This is a short version of a several hour discussion with the folks that seem to know a heck of a lot more than I do. Will it work? I have no ideas but the stuff they shared with me sounded good at least. — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (97 materials catalog) http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

Response:

  There is a plan afoot to stock the Madison  with Westslope Cutt’s . Visit     http"//fwp.mt.gov/    and take a look. Sounds good so far … any thoughts ? if so, CC to   Dave Hagengruber I’ll take cutt’s in montana over bows, browns and brookies any day of the week.  They belong there, right ? TimW

I agree, they where there years back, just like the Grayling. I do not know if the plan will work but I like the idea of "something" being done to try and combat WD.   Hm  

Response:

  There is a plan afoot to stock the Madison  with Westslope Cutt’s . Visit     http"//fwp.mt.gov/    and take a look. Sounds good so far … any thoughts ? if so, CC to   Dave Hagengruber   Harry

Response:

 There is a plan afoot to stock the Madison  with Westslope Cutt’s . Visit     http"//fwp.mt.gov/    and take a look. Sounds good so far … any thoughts ? if so, CC to   Dave Hagengruber  Harry

   Sorry, fat fingers, the URL is    http://fwp.mt.gov/      Harry  ( Nice page in any event g< )

Response:

  There is a plan afoot to stock the Madison  with Westslope Cutt’s . Visit     http"//fwp.mt.gov/    and take a look. Sounds good so far … any thoughts ? if so, CC to   Dave Hagengruber

I’ll take cutt’s in montana over bows, browns and brookies any day of the week.  They belong there, right ? TimW

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   There is a plan afoot to stock the Madison  with Westslope Cutt’s . Visit     http"//fwp.mt.gov/    and take a look. Sounds good so far … any thoughts ? if so, CC to   Dave Hagengruber I’ll take cutt’s in montana over bows, browns and brookies any day of the week.  They belong there, right ? TimW I agree, they where there years back, just like the Grayling. I do not know if the plan will work but I like the idea of "something" being done to try and combat WD.  Hm  

Ain’t WHIRLING DISEASE somethin them square dancer get when they dance too long? DJones

Response:

While stocking always sounds like a good idea, fact is that it was stocking hatchery fish that brought whirling disease into existing populations. There is also the matter of genetic intergression if one stocks fish from another watershed into another where a native stock already exists.  If the Madison is completely devoid of cutts, intergression would not be a problem; however if any native fish remain, their genes will be lost when the new stock takes over. — Don Jordan POB 2357 Chiefland, FL 32644 http://ripserv.com/indyjones

Its my understanding that the rainbow below Quake Lake were restocked after the earthquake because of fisk kill resulting from the landslide at Quake Lake.  Can some of you Montanans with long memories shed any light on this? Jim

Response:

While stocking always sounds like a good idea, fact is that it was stocking hatchery fish that brought whirling disease into existing populations. There is also the matter of genetic intergression if one stocks fish from another watershed into another where a native stock already exists.  If the Madison is completely devoid of cutts, intergression would not be a problem; however if any native fish remain, their genes will be lost when the new stock takes over. — Don Jordan POB 2357 Chiefland, FL 32644 http://ripserv.com/indyjones

Response:

While stocking always sounds like a good idea, fact is that it was stocking hatchery fish that brought whirling disease into existing populations.

No, Don.    What brought whirling disease into existing populations was stocking SICK hatchery fish.  Stocking per se is not the problem. that is not to say, however, tht it is the solution either.  I think that it is not. But, although I am generally opposed to stocking hatchery fish in rivers where there are wild populations, I have become convinced this idea withthe cutts may be worth a try.  I had most of my reservations addressed by the excellent coverage of the project on the Montana FW&P web page.  You really ought to check it out.  I can’t give you the exact address, but you should be able to get to it.  Let me know if you cannot, and I will get it for you. There is also the matter of genetic intergression if one stocks fish from another watershed into another where a native stock already exists.  If the Madison is completely devoid of cutts, intergression would not be a problem; however if any native fish remain, their genes will be lost when the new stock takes over.

I am not a biologist, but I do not believe this will be a problem. Take a look at the discussion I just cited.  As I stated, I generally am not a supporter of stocking in wild trout waters, an even stronger opponent is Dick Vincent whose 1970’s study led to the cessation of stocking in Montana rivers.  He is in favor of the proposed project with the cutts.  That says a lot to me. Lyman Lyman G. Hughes Dallas, TX Ennis, MT

Response:

snip   I had most of my reservations addressed by the excellent coverage of the project on the Montana FW&P web page.  You really ought to check it out.  I can’t give you the exact address, but you should be able to get to it.   Lyman G. Hughes snip

Montana’s web page addres is:  http://www.fwp.mt.gov/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dallas, TX Ennis, MT

Response:

  There is a plan afoot to stock the Madison  with Westslope Cutt’s . I’ll take cutt’s in montana over bows, browns and brookies any day of the week.  They belong there, right ? TimW

I think you are right.  The cutthroat are always native it seems in our most inaccessible waters in the west.  So they surely belong.  A damn great fighter too. -Burton

Response:

  There is a plan afoot to stock the Madison  with Westslope Cutt’s . Cutthroat trout spawn in small tributaries and REMAIN there for a couple of years (while their bones turn from grissle to real bone). Rainbows spawn in the tributaries and return to the main river while their bones are still grissle rather than bone. Supposedly whirling disease attacks the fish while their skeletal structure is still grissle. This is a short

Al, Thanks for sharing this information with us.  This is indeed very interesting.  Here in Oregon we have a lot of native cutthroat and they are great to fish.  They will attack a fly like it’s the last morsel on earth.  The hatcheries like to stock them (they are hardier) as well as a cross they produce with rainbow they call a cutbow.  I wonder if the cutts and rainbow would cross in the Madison.  I don’t know if they will cross in the wild.  we have streams that contain both.  If they did where would the young grow? -Burton

Response:

Its my understanding that the rainbow below Quake Lake were restocked after the earthquake because of fisk kill resulting from the landslide at Quake Lake.  Can some of you Montanans with long memories shed any light on this? Jim

Good question.  I don’t know the answer specifically, but stocking was fairly common in the Madison until Dick Vincent’s study showed that stocking actually was detrimental to the wild trout fishery.  I believe that study was in the early 70’s.   The quake was in ‘59, so what you suggest is possible. Lyman Lyman G. Hughes Dallas, TX Ennis, MT

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   There is a plan afoot to stock the Madison  with Westslope Cutt’s . I’ll take cutt’s in montana over bows, browns and brookies any day of the week.  They belong there, right ? TimW I think you are right.  The cutthroat are always native it seems in our most inaccessible waters in the west.  So they surely belong.  A damn great fighter too. -Burton

Burton    "point your browser to"         http://fwp.mt.gov/      Nice page, good info   HM

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – cross they produce with rainbow they call a cutbow.  I wonder if the cutts and rainbow would cross in the Madison.  I don’t know if they cross in the wild.  we have streams that contain both.  If they Rainbows and cutts will interbreed in the wild, but it’s a little more complicated than that.  For example, they won’t interbreed where they evolved together in the same river because they occupy different niches and spawn differently (West slope cutts and redband rainbow exist together in several rivers).  However, if you introduce rainbow into waters where cutthroats are native and rainbow are not, such as the Madison, they will interbreed.  Such is the danger of stocking. Rob Gregoire

Ah so, that’s what I suspected.  Thanks for the response Rob.  I know the McKenzie River had redsides and cutthroat both, but the cutts are only found in the lower reaches of the river.  There are rainbows in the lower part of the river, but I have never caught a cutt in the upper rainbow rich region. Merry Christmas to all and Happy New Year, -Burton

Response:

Question:

Am interested in books on Atlantic Salmon fishing, and a used/ almost new 10′ single hand fly rod. I fish mostly Newfoundland and New Brunswick, so books dealing with these provinces are of special interest. Sage I know makes a 10′ rod, but am open to alternatives. Fish the Gander/Exploits in Newfoundland and the main southwest Miramichi and welcome swapping tactics, commiserating, and planning the next series of excursions.

Response:

Am interested in books on Atlantic Salmon fishing, and a used/ almost new 10′ single hand fly rod. I fish mostly Newfoundland and New Brunswick, so books dealing with these provinces are of special interest. Sage I know

The best new books appear to be those by Gary Anderson (Montreal) and Paul Marriner (Nova Scotia.) — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

Response:

Am interested in books on Atlantic Salmon fishing, and a used/ almost new 10′ single hand fly rod. I fish mostly Newfoundland and New Brunswick, so books dealing with these provinces are of special interest. Sage I know The best new books appear to be those by Gary Anderson (Montreal) and Paul Marriner (Nova Scotia.)

I second that. In Gary Anderson’s last book the author actually names the rods he uses, one of which is a 10 ft. Loomis. However, I would also ask you to reconsider your choice of a 10 ft. rod. Except for roll casting and mending the extra length does not seem to offer much of an advantage. In fact, some people consider it a hindrance because of the extra weight and possibly wind resistance, as little as it may be. Mike Crosby of Halifax is probably one of the most succesful slamon fishers in Atlantic Canada. He dissuaded me from going for a 10 ft. rod but recommendeed the 9 ft. rods. Again, the choice is entirely yours. Tight lines. Tom. — Dr. Thomas Hackmann Dept. of Anaesthesia IWK

Question:

Does anybody have any information on fly fishing in the Linville Falls community area. I have been camping near there in the past and looked like a nice place to go. I have never been Fly fishing before, but would like to try since someone gave me some gear. Thanks for any info. Chris

Response:

I forgot to put that is Linville Falls community in N.C.

Response:

Question:

release fly fishing only legislation.  Many states throughout the country have "C&R FlyFishing Only" streams or sections of streams; unfortunately North Carolina is not one of them.  

Well David, I think, actually I know, that you are wrong in the above statement.  North Carolina has many C&R only streams or sections thereof.  Two of the most noteworthy are Lost Cove Creek and part of the South Toe River.  You have to hunt to find them, but they are there.   Also, you should try some of NC’s Wild Trout streams.  They are not strictly C&R, for certain reasons, but they will challenge and amaze even the best fly fishers. Good luck with that legislation! -Paul *                       *    "To catch a river unguarded is less a        * * Paul "Cousin" Graham   *    matter of where to look than of when, and   * *                          *  I have a secret time."-Ted Leeson           *

Response:

We have all seen our favorite streams become glutted as the interest in fishing grows.  Interest in fishing with bait, lure and fly.   At the risk of sounding elitist, which I am not by any stretch of the imagination, I feel motivated to inquire about the steps one might take to push for catch & release fly fishing only legislation.  Many states throughout the country have "C&R FlyFishing Only" streams or sections of streams; unfortunately North Carolina is not one of them.   Can anyone provide information or feedback that would help me get the ball rolling. David T. Pharr

Response: