Question:
Hi Im pretty sure you have heard this a million times but I am a beginer with very lil expierience… Just moved into a new how with an apsolut gorgeous lake with ample fish but have yet to pull anything out other than minnows with a worm n bobber… Was doing a lil fly fishing (first time in 5 years) and Still nothing… I can pretend to know what Im doing but other than that =) Hint, Tips, or websites would be greatlly aprieciated… Thanks for listening, pretty sure this post comes up often…
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… pretty sure this post comes up often…
No, this one’s pretty special. Where is this wonderful lake, direction & state will do, ie north Florida, and what kind of fish, besides minnows, are in it ? — Ken Fortenberry
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… pretty sure this post comes up often… No, this one’s pretty special. Where is this wonderful lake, direction & state will do, ie north Florida, and what kind of fish, besides minnows, are in it ?
I’d like the exact coordinates. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)
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We are happier to help you than it may appear. You just haven’t provided much information. What type of fly fishing equipment do you have? What type of fish are in this lake? If it’s panfish (bluegill,etc.) or bass you can get a fly at WalMart called a Miss Prissy. Bluegill and bass love ‘em. Just cast it near a shoreline or near cover. You can just let it sit or you can twitch it as you retrieve it. This is a great time of year for the Miss Prissy. That’s a good starting point.
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Ah me precious. books it has yessssssss. the libraries has it me precious it
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Ah me precious. books it has yessssssss. the libraries has it me precious it
Groovy! You are da man! You are da bom! Mu
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Hi Frodo, I think this might warrant a house call? Do you have a sister? Only kidding. Is it a bass/panfish lake or a trout lake? I guess it doesn’t matter. Go out to the lake and cast a #10 Woolly Bugger as far as you can. Sometimes it is better when the sun is off the water. Then put your rod tip on or slightly in the water. Strip the line back through your fingers in short, quick little jerks. The next thing you will feel is a fish pulling on you fly. If this does not work and it is a bass/panfish lake, wait till May and then do this in the PM just after the sun gets off the water. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA http://www.kiene.com
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Im pretty sure you have heard this a million times but I am a beginer with very lil expierience… Just moved into a new how with an apsolut gorgeous lake with ample fish but have yet to pull anything out other than minnows with a worm n bobber… Was doing a lil fly fishing (first time in 5 years) and Still nothing… I can pretend to know what Im doing but other than that =) Hint, Tips, or websites would be greatlly aprieciated… Thanks for listening, pretty sure this post comes up often…
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Ah me precious. books it has yessssssss. the libraries has it me precious it
i am damn near transported. thanks, john. wayno
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Hey, Thanks for the replies… Hehe john. Ok, it is an old quarry spring fed… In grandville mi called big spring lake near grandrapids, It has both bass and bluegill just the other day after i posted I pulled an impressive small mouth on a black jig head just before dusk…The shore that we own, one side goes gradually down then cuts strait off 18 feet (Caught bass just b4 drop off) and the other side is just a strait drop… If i could ever find the spring i heard it goes down some 80 feet but that duznt sound right.I couldnt know for sure… I have an old simple rod nothing fancy and a few store bought fly’s n a few poppers… I could really tell you the names or kind of line cause I honestly dont know without going out side and looking at the pole… Im really lazy =) Im gonna go out in a few and try my luck and Ill let you know what turns out… Good luck to you all and have a nice one =)
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Question:
: Oh, and you might wish to reconsider that open invitation for anyone to : join you fishing. I’m over in Denver and it takes very little prompting : for me to drive to your side of the divide. You wouldn’t want to wake up : at 4 a.m. to the sound of some drunken freak in a sombrero banging on : your door, demanding smoked whitefish and homebrew. Especially one over 6 feet tall.
And sometimes that’s not enough. Steve
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You wouldn’t want to wake up at 4 a.m. to the sound of some drunken freak in a sombrero banging on your door, demanding smoked whitefish and homebrew. Steve
Well, yes, he would. Mitch
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join you fishing. I’m over in Denver and it takes very little prompting for me to drive to your side of the divide. You wouldn’t want to wake up at 4 a.m. to the sound of some drunken freak in a sombrero banging on your door, demanding smoked whitefish and homebrew.
Bullshit. It’s why I keep both my waders and my beer near the back door. TimW
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – T-Bone, When you’re under sustained attack it can be easy to let it get you down eventually. Don’t forget that taking any stand outside of the crowd (herd) makes you a target, particularly for the lowest common denominator of which there are the greatest number. These are also the ones that seldom have anything to add other than a "me too" or to attack someone without any positive input. Thus, you have to just write off the clowns that have nothing more to say other than to let vituperative spittle dribble onto their keyboards. Many of those posts remind me of a Dilbert comic where Dilbert and Wally are having a flamewar via the net between adjacent work cubicles. Dilbert is flexing his finger muscles and says "Come on flameboy, just try me" (quote may not be exact). The point being that the net lets those that are afraid to voice an independent opinion or that consider adding a five letter word to a string of 4-letterers to be intellectual discourse to have input without fear of retaliation. You have to just let it be water off a CDC. The net is the electronic Hyde Park. Everyone has a voice (if you have a computer, the electronic soapbox, of course). Hell, even Powlesland says something interesting every 20 or 30 posts or so (statistics not verified). Those that try to shout down other voices they don’t like should not be given your full consideration. Just ignore them. It’s just white noise in the background. Jon
Sounds like its T-bone affirmation time. T-bone, your good enough, your smart enough, and gosh darnit, (many) people (on this ng) like you. Hang in there, baby. Just go eat a few little wild brookies. Always makes me feel better. Brett INFORMED and ENLIGHTEND C&R
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While I agree with everything you said re: T-Bone, I disagree strongly with your statement that fly fishing is a pastime not a sport. The Webster’s Dictionary has as one definition of sport, "an activity pursued for pleasure involving the hunting, taking or killing of wild animals, game or fish."
That’s a definition that will get us in trouble, eventually. I think it’s important to differentiate between blood sports (even if it’s C&R) and the games people play for fun. This "sport" also requires a measure of responsibility toward nature, which other sports do not. The anti-everything crowd has a hey-day with any activity that even occasionally kills something in the name of sport. We need another label… — Derek R. Larson Indiana University Department of History "Eastward I go by force, but Westward I go free!" -H. D. Thoreau
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T-Bone, A. If I am ever in CO you can count on me to ruin your health for several days. We will probably do some fishing also. B. I can remember several of your posts including saving your dog, topless float trips, promising to post GIFs of you and your buds removing living whitefish heads with your teeth and the ever popular C&R vs C&K without resorting to any ’save’ files. C. I may not always agree with your opions but I will defend your right etc etc D. Always remember what I think when someone treats me as you have been treated; "Some people are above me and some BLOW ME !". E. I live by the following creed when dealing with these people; "Life is a question of mind and matter, I don’t mind and they don’t matter". The only editor a man needs is honesty. As you were, carry on. — "The true Angler is content to fish alone" Brian Di Carlo
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Hello thoughtful readers,
Well, here’s your first mistake Tim. You’re assuming that anyone with access to a keyboard can pound out something intelligent… I put a lot of work and thought into the articles that I post here. <snip
Yes you have, and I for one appreciate it. As often as not, I’ve disagreed with you, but I’ve been a lot more pissed off at the people who would attack you rather join in a civilized discussion of what you’ve said. This _is_ a discussion group is it not? <snip I love a good laugh and poke good natured fun at our sport and current attitudes. I try to ad variety and spice to what I feel would be a pretty droll ng sometimes
To all you bitchers an’ moaners out there- who would you have to bitch an’ moan about if were not for the inimitable Mr. T-Bone? I’ll tell ya- you’d be bitchin’ an’ moanin’ at the same Sage vs. Loomis vs. Orvis vs. whatever. And you wouldn’t be doin’ it nearly so well. As I’ve said, there’s plenty I’ve disagreed with in Tim’s posts, but I don’t see anyone around here posting funnier more thought provoking stuff. This would be one sorry ass place to hang out without him. I have an open invitation to anyone who posts here to come to western colorado and fish with me. Next time I make a wrong turn on the Long Island Distressway you can expect me to come pounding on your door. We’ll go out an’ laugh at the fish as they go by… In short, I love the sport as I love life itself.
I believe you do, and that’s why you belong in this ng. But goddamn it stop calling this a sport. It ain’t. It’s a pastime. A sport implies competition and that it ain’t (IMNSHFO) Yet lately, for some reason, my name has appeared as the subject, my email is full of hate mail and one poster even said that they were ’so sick of me’. This last post about wishing I would stop posting altogether has broken my resolve and hurt my feelings somewhat.
Hey Tim, DON’T LET THE BASTARDS GETCHA DOWN! These posts are almost exclusively posts from those that have never, ever posted or expressed an idea or thoughtful answer to the ng. And never will… I don’t want any damned lectures about what to post and not to post, or how and what to say. I ask only for fairness and objectivity in response to my posts, which I always honor for all others. Is that too much to ask ? Nope. <snip At the moment, though, I am not feeling very generous towards this ng, roff, particularly these lurkers that offer nothing but complaints about me.
Screw ‘em… — Phil Koenig Manhattan Custom Tackle Ltd. http://fishdoc.com. "I’m the boss, so WHATEVER I say is OK."
Response:
Hang tough Tim. As the proverb says: "A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country." (Matthew 13:57) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello thoughtful readers, I put a lot of work and thought into the articles that I post here. I have one pet peeve, that of the insanity of pure C&R on a wild population of fish. This is an attitude that I feel is gaining momentum and has about a 50% or better following amongst fishermen, based on my casual observations. Generally (Powlesland excepted) I never, ever attack individuals and I challenge anyone to finding an ad hominum post made by me in all the years of alt.fishing and roff. I love a good laugh and poke good natured fun at our sport and current attitudes. I try to ad variety and spice to what I feel would be a pretty droll ng sometimes. I offer patterns and help and have spent hours offline helping flyfishermen of all walks. I have made a lot of friends out of would be enemies by conversing offline, exchanging flies and even meeting face to face for some fishing together. I have an open invitation to anyone who posts here to come to western colorado and fish with me. In short, I love the sport as I love life itself. Yet lately, for some reason, my name has appeared as the subject, my email is full of hate mail and one poster even said that they were ’so sick of me’. This last post about wishing I would stop posting altogether has broken my resolve and hurt my feelings somewhat. These posts are almost exclusively posts from those that have never, ever posted or expressed an idea or thoughtful answer to the ng. I don’t want any damned lectures about what to post and not to post, or how and what to say. I ask only for fairness and objectivity in response to my posts, which I always honor for all others. Is that too much to ask ? TimW BTW – I am about to embark on several photographic journies in the new binaries group… 1) Tying sequences for Western Flies 2) real pictures of scarred old warriors from real C&R areas. I think this a very worthwhile endeavor. At the moment, though, I am not feeling very generous towards this ng, roff, particularly these lurkers that offer nothing but complaints about me.
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While I agree with everything you said re: T-Bone, I disagree strongly with your statement that fly fishing is a pastime not a sport. The Webster’s Dictionary has as one definition of sport, "an activity pursued for pleasure involving the hunting, taking or killing of wild animals, game or fish." Paul Marriner
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Tim, Way back before it became the rage, I too submitted a post that exposed some true idiocy in this ng. It was about IMHO how anything would be better than a FEDERAL Government being the overseer of wildlife and natual resources. I got the same hate mail, posts and name calling that you have received, only not to the extent you have been forced to endure. After my post, I saw several late (a few weeks later) replies to my original post become a thread that carried through to the election. I think your thread on C&R is having the same effect. There are positives and negatives to all issues, but we tend to forget the positive results. I hope such actions by irresponsible idiots do NOT shut you up. I have said it before and I say it again now: I may not agree with everything you say but I will read yur posts first and will defend to the death your right to post! The idiots? Ahhh… fuck em!
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While I agree with everything you said re: T-Bone, I disagree strongly with your statement that fly fishing is a pastime not a sport. The Webster’s Dictionary has as one definition of sport, "an activity pursued for pleasure involving the hunting, taking or killing of wild animals, game or fish." Paul Marriner
OK Paul- You and Tim and Webster’s can call it any damn thing you want, I’ll call it fishing. You don’t think I could say all that stuff about Tim without a little jab somewhere;-) ?? Anyway, it’s whatever YOU wanna make it-that’s the ONLY thing that’s important. Best Regards, Phil Koenig Manhattan Custom Tackle Ltd. http://fishdoc.com. "I’m the boss, so WHATEVER I say is OK."
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello thoughtful readers, I put a lot of work and thought into the articles that I post here. I have one pet peeve, that of the insanity of pure C&R on a wild population of fish. This is an attitude that I feel is gaining momentum and has about a 50% or better following amongst fishermen, based on my casual observations. Generally (Powlesland excepted) I never, ever attack individuals and I challenge anyone to finding an ad hominum post made by me in all the years of alt.fishing and roff. I love a good laugh and poke good natured fun at our sport and current attitudes. I try to ad variety and spice to what I feel would be a pretty droll ng sometimes. I offer patterns and help and have spent hours offline helping flyfishermen of all walks. I have made a lot of friends out of would be enemies by conversing offline, exchanging flies and even meeting face to face for some fishing together. I have an open invitation to anyone who posts here to come to western colorado and fish with me. In short, I love the sport as I love life itself. Yet lately, for some reason, my name has appeared as the subject, my email is full of hate mail and one poster even said that they were ’so sick of me’. This last post about wishing I would stop posting altogether has broken my resolve and hurt my feelings somewhat. These posts are almost exclusively posts from those that have never, ever posted or expressed an idea or thoughtful answer to the ng. I don’t want any damned lectures about what to post and not to post, or how and what to say. I ask only for fairness and objectivity in response to my posts, which I always honor for all others. Is that too much to ask ? TimW
Look, Tim, for what it’s worth… Sometimes your opinions make me laugh, sometimes they piss me off. The same could be said of the opinions of my wife, my mother, my brother, George Gehrke and that kid down at the 7-11 with the pierced nose. Post whatever the hell you want, but don’t stop posting. This newsgroup would be a very boring place without your insights and opinions, regardless of who likes them and who doesn’t. Oh, and you might wish to reconsider that open invitation for anyone to join you fishing. I’m over in Denver and it takes very little prompting for me to drive to your side of the divide. You wouldn’t want to wake up at 4 a.m. to the sound of some drunken freak in a sombrero banging on your door, demanding smoked whitefish and homebrew. Steve
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Tim, Don’t let a bunch of wannabes get you down. Without you in the NG, this place would be empty and drool. I like the fire and brimstone that’s shoot back and forth about the various topics here. We all don’t resemble the Marlboro Man in neat tidy packages. So, who the fuck should care. Some folks (yes, old ones) just don’t like the water muddied upstream from where they’re standing. They can’t see that the water is changing and they’re even standing in it. They’re the type of people that have all the comments at the wrong time. They don’t want to listen and learn. A good example that want to share happened to me before I became of age years ago. I was the only one working a hole and had been there for several hours. I worked it from all directions and changed my strategy each time and was starting to show some action but not hooking anything. I finally hooked a stealhead (half-pounder) but he shook off right as my thumb touched the lower jaw. I went right back to my stance and now had an audience of wannabes. On my very next cast I hooked a good five pounder and somehow knew my day was over. Here I was trying to land a fish on poor tired equipment, drowning out the questions from the fishermen on the bank. What you using? How deep you? What’s your angle of drift? And so on, and made only one comment to the guys that that the fish where in close and right on the bottom. Somehow they didn’t hear a word I said or thought I didn’t know what I was talking about. When I had that fresh pink and silver up on the beach I looked behind and smiled as these two guys twice my age mucked up the hole. In short order instead listening to what I said, they proceed to go deep and spooked all chances getting a fish for the rest of the day. People only listen to what they want to hear, and then only act on a portion of that. This is a wonderful county we live in. We have the freedom to move about, disagree with the government and speak our minds without going to jail. Tim, feel free to speak what’s on your mind, as we all need a little education to grow with. Oh, by the way, the only true sports are mountain climbing, auto racing, and bull fighting, everything else are games or pastimes. Doug Knight
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: Oh, and you might wish to reconsider that open invitation for anyone to : join you fishing. I’m over in Denver and it takes very little prompting : for me to drive to your side of the divide. You wouldn’t want to wake up : at 4 a.m. to the sound of some drunken freak in a sombrero banging on : your door, demanding smoked whitefish and homebrew. Especially one over 6 feet tall. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher – http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry | That’s Idaho, not Iowa. | ad hominem University of Idaho | Upper Left Hand Corner. | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343 | No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem
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Hello thoughtful readers, I put a lot of work and thought into the articles that I post here. I have one pet peeve, that of the insanity of pure C&R on a wild population of fish. This is an attitude that I feel is gaining momentum and has about a 50% or better following amongst fishermen, based on my casual observations. Generally (Powlesland excepted) I never, ever attack individuals and I challenge anyone to finding an ad hominum post made by me in all the years of alt.fishing and roff. I love a good laugh and poke good natured fun at our sport and current attitudes.
I too love a good laugh, Tim, and you and I have shared many enjoyable moments both in ng’s and private e-mail. Nevertheless, I think your assessment of your newsgroup communications is a little too generous. I would not have brought this up on my own, but since you have raised the issue I will say that I have felt at times that you have made use of ad hominum arguments. Since 1993, in various ng’s, I have said that mandated C&R is a management tool which works well for some sport fisheries on wild populations. Mixtures of mandated C&R and allowed C&K work well in other fisheries. And very liberal C&K works well in some fisheries, too. But there have been times when, in response, you have painted me as being a total C&R enthusiast, without exception. And when I have offered C&R data from published, refereed studies, and observations made on specific fisheries which thrive under partial or total C&R management, your responses have not always been gracious. For example, I recall one article into which I also "put a lot of work and thought," only to have you dismiss it by saying "nothing new here, so no response." My feeling, quite frankly, was that you simply had nothing to offer in response to my well-documented presentation. In my opinion, newsgroups have not turned out to be particularly good public forums for reasoned discussion. They lend themselves all too well to shouting matches. You do add "variety and spice," but there are other good things which you could also add to r.o.f.f. However, since you don’t want any "damned lectures"…. I ask only for fairness and objectivity in response to my posts, which I always honor for all others. BTW – I am about to embark on several photographic journies in the new binaries group… 2) real pictures of scarred old warriors from real C&R areas. I think this a very worthwhile endeavor.
In fairness and objectivity, you could also post pictures of…. oh, yeah, no lectures…. 
Woods Hole, MA USA
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..some valid observations snipped… Yet lately, for some reason, my name has appeared as the subject, my email is full of hate mail and one poster even said that they were ’so sick of me’. This last post about wishing I would stop posting altogether has broken my resolve and hurt my feelings somewhat. These posts are almost exclusively posts from those that have never, ever posted or expressed an idea or thoughtful answer to the ng.
… more snipped for brevity… T-Bone, When you’re under sustained attack it can be easy to let it get you down eventually. Don’t forget that taking any stand outside of the crowd (herd) makes you a target, particularly for the lowest common denominator of which there are the greatest number. These are also the ones that seldom have anything to add other than a "me too" or to attack someone without any positive input. Thus, you have to just write off the clowns that have nothing more to say other than to let vituperative spittle dribble onto their keyboards. Many of those posts remind me of a Dilbert comic where Dilbert and Wally are having a flamewar via the net between adjacent work cubicles. Dilbert is flexing his finger muscles and says "Come on flameboy, just try me" (quote may not be exact). The point being that the net lets those that are afraid to voice an independent opinion or that consider adding a five letter word to a string of 4-letterers to be intellectual discourse to have input without fear of retaliation. You have to just let it be water off a CDC. The net is the electronic Hyde Park. Everyone has a voice (if you have a computer, the electronic soapbox, of course). Hell, even Powlesland says something interesting every 20 or 30 posts or so (statistics not verified). Those that try to shout down other voices they don’t like should not be given your full consideration. Just ignore them. It’s just white noise in the background. Jon
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(lotsa stuff deleted)
I follow the posts to roff pretty carefully and Tim’s have interested me because of the informal moderator’s role he often assumes. I for one am impressed by his generosity of spirit, civility, humor, general decency and sanity. For whatever little its worth, I think there are many sane and thoughtful roff readers who feel pretty much the same way, our various C&R differences not withstanding. And I’ll bet you that a straw poll of roff readers, were that possible, would confirm that. This ain’t exactly a private club, Tim. It has more similarity to a group of people who mostly share a common interest, discussing it on a street corner. Anyone can drift in, and some real dusies do just that. You’ve got a lot of friends and well-wishers on roff, T-Bone. Don’t let noise and rudeness from silly people get to you. You’re the spice in the food around here. From Philjack’s response: At the moment, though, I am not feeling very generous towards this ng, roff, particularly these lurkers that offer nothing but complaints about me. Screw ‘em…
My advise exactly, Tim. Screw ‘em like a big dog. Tight lines and, respective to forks, light tines – Lon Lon Hall Applied Intelligence Group, Inc. Fly Fisher and Cooking Enthusiast "Eat the rich. The poor are tough and stringy."
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Hello thoughtful readers, I put a lot of work and thought into the articles that I post here. I have one pet peeve, that of the insanity of pure C&R on a wild population of fish. This is an attitude that I feel is gaining momentum and has about a 50% or better following amongst fishermen, based on my casual observations.
etc….. Tim, I have been lurking in this newsgroup for about two years. I find your posts both interesting and informative. I know it is difficult to have people flaming you, but you just need to keep doing what you think is right. When people give me a hard time, I remember this quote: To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, be nothing. Elbert Hubbard It helps me, I hope it helps you. Keep up the good work! Trent
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In my opinion, newsgroups have not turned out to be particularly good public forums for reasoned discussion.
I agree. I used to think the problem was the medium. That is, a person read a post, formed an opinion, and typed it, pressing Send before thinking, carefully, about each word, every idea, and their implications. Usenet anonymity, no accountability, little if any responsibility. More recently, I’ve begun to think the problem is not the medium, but the people who use it (perhaps our culture as a whole). Yes, it makes me shudder, for I see them in myself. What does this have to do with fly fishing??? Everything… or nothing at all. Mitch Red-Neck at Large
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there have been times when, in response, you have painted me as being a total C&R enthusiast, without exception. And when I have offered C&R data from published, refereed studies, and observations made on specific fisheries which thrive under partial or total C&R management, your responses have not always been gracious. For example, I recall one article into which I also "put a lot of work and thought," only to have you dismiss
In the spirit of debate ? Isn’t that the difference ? If we, in an electronic discussion, or sitting in a bar and I said: "Bob, you ignorant slut…the little wahoooocheee doesn’t need TU meddling…" and you said: "Tim, you complete boob, research by Dr. Chumnfertrout states…" Is this not different then a post which reads: "Bob Golder is a Jerk, I wish he would take his fucking opinions about TU over to alt.dickheads" I contend that I am the object of the latter and I will not deny that I participate in the former. TimW
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If we, in an electronic discussion, or sitting in a bar and I said: "Bob, you ignorant slut…the little wahoooocheee doesn’t need TU meddling…" Is this not different then a post which reads: "Bob Golder is a Jerk, I wish he would take his fucking opinions about TU over to alt.dickheads"
Oh yes, I’d _much_ rather be called an ignorant slut than a jerk! I _think_ you are saying that in the first example, you’re talking WITH me, but in the second example you’re talking AT me or even ABOUT me. Communication is possible in the first example, but more difficult and perhaps impossible in the second example. Whether in a bar or at a computer terminal, the next thing I’d ask you is how would TU get factored into our typical conversations about C&R vs. C&K? Trout Unlimited is not a C&R-only organization. TU is not even a fly fishing organization, but accepts spincasting and baitcasting, both with artificial lures and with bait. That’s why the Federation of Fly Fishers was originally formed by people who objected to these TU policies. Tim, I think that this illustrates another reason why some people get frustrated with you. In the middle of a conversation about C&R, all of a sudden you might be knocking TU or cutting osier branches to paint the water for brookies (a lovely image, to be sure, but one which fetches linear thinkers up a bit short. We can get a bit fussy when that happens.). So I think that some people are confused or possibly made angry by the freewheeling nature of your posts, as well as by the actual substance (if any! :-) ) of your comments. But no one should insult you or send hate mail to you as a result of your communications. Woods Hole, MA USA
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: Hello thoughtful readers, : I have made a lot of friends out of would be enemies by conversing : offline, exchanging flies and even meeting face to face for some : fishing together. I have an open invitation to anyone who posts : here to come to western colorado and fish with me. Careful, I might take you up on it. ;)
I’d be careful too. Wayne might take him up on it. I know that my travels ever do find me in Colorado again I will most certainly try and look Tim up for a couple hours or more of fishing. : I don’t want any damned lectures about what to post and not to post, : or how and what to say. I ask only for fairness and objectivity : in response to my posts, which I always honor for all others. : Is that too much to ask ? For some people, yes. It has been my observation that a lynch mob mentality can start when one poster starts to flame another. It’s happened to me. Kinda makes you open season.
Often there might be a lynch mob merely because someone has posted something so contraversial that a lot of people disagree with it and want to express their opinion. Tim posts on a contraversial topic and I would expect a lot of responses and I think he handles them quite well without resorting to vitriol and ad hominem attacks. I can’t say the same thing for many of the people that disagree with him. The other day someone declared that they were creating a killfile with Tim’s name in it. I really couldn’t understand why someone would do that merely because they disagreed with his opinions. If Tim presented them in a flammatory manner, attacking the people that use pure C&R rather then the practice I could understand but he doesn’t. I hope that those responsible for Tim’s posting will honor his request. — John Fereira Isis Distributed Systems – Ithaca, NY
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Hello thoughtful readers, I put a lot of work and thought into the articles that I post here. I have one pet peeve, that of the insanity of pure C&R on a wild population of fish. This is an attitude that I feel is gaining momentum and has about a 50% or better following amongst fishermen, based on my casual observations. Generally (Powlesland excepted) I never, ever attack individuals and I challenge anyone to finding an ad hominum post made by me in all the years of alt.fishing and roff. I love a good laugh and poke good natured fun at our sport and current attitudes. I try to ad variety and spice to what I feel would be a pretty droll ng sometimes. I offer patterns and help and have spent hours offline helping flyfishermen of all walks. I have made a lot of friends out of would be enemies by conversing offline, exchanging flies and even meeting face to face for some fishing together. I have an open invitation to anyone who posts here to come to western colorado and fish with me. In short, I love the sport as I love life itself. Yet lately, for some reason, my name has appeared as the subject, my email is full of hate mail and one poster even said that they were ’so sick of me’. This last post about wishing I would stop posting altogether has broken my resolve and hurt my feelings somewhat. These posts are almost exclusively posts from those that have never, ever posted or expressed an idea or thoughtful answer to the ng. I don’t want any damned lectures about what to post and not to post, or how and what to say. I ask only for fairness and objectivity in response to my posts, which I always honor for all others. Is that too much to ask ? TimW BTW – I am about to embark on several photographic journies in the new binaries group… 1) Tying sequences for Western Flies 2) real pictures of scarred old warriors from real C&R areas. I think this a very worthwhile endeavor. At the moment, though, I am not feeling very generous towards this ng, roff, particularly these lurkers that offer nothing but complaints about me.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hello thoughtful readers, I put a lot of work and thought into the articles that I post here. This last post about wishing I would stop posting altogether has broken my resolve and hurt my feelings somewhat. These posts are almost exclusively posts from those that have never, ever posted or expressed an idea or thoughtful answer to the ng. I don’t want any damned lectures about what to post and not to post, or how and what to say. I ask only for fairness and objectivity in response to my posts, which I always honor for all others. Is that too much to ask ? At the moment, though, I am not feeling very generous towards this ng, roff, particularly these lurkers that offer nothing but complaints about me.
Having visited roff for the past few months it’s taken a while to learn a bit about the personalities who post here. It’s easy particularly in the first few visits to take posts (particularly those tongue in cheek) out of context and come away thinking that there’s a fine stock of creeps on this ng. Further there have been much unneeded barbs shot at identifable people &groups: namely GG, Rex Geirach Gary Borger ,the yuppy ff crowd and anyone who buys Orvis. Perhaps it’s good fun but someone is bound to take it personal. BEWARE those who give out should be prepared to get as good as they give. For my part I’ve got no intent to be deliberately malicious. I’d also add that over my months of browsing T-bone’s proven to be one of the more entertaining and though provoking denizens of these occassionally deep and troubled waters. Ralph H.
Response:
: Hello thoughtful readers, : I have made a lot of friends out of would be enemies by conversing : offline, exchanging flies and even meeting face to face for some : fishing together. I have an open invitation to anyone who posts : here to come to western colorado and fish with me. Careful, I might take you up on it. ;) : I don’t want any damned lectures about what to post and not to post, : or how and what to say. I ask only for fairness and objectivity : in response to my posts, which I always honor for all others. : Is that too much to ask ? For some people, yes. It has been my observation that a lynch mob mentality can start when one poster starts to flame another. It’s happened to me. Kinda makes you open season. Later, Jon Porter
Response:
Regards, Jeff