Question:

To the Group, I am interested in your advice on those fly fishing combos I see in the major catalogs. I am building up bit of a pile in the form of bonus bucks with my credit card and was thinking to treat myself to a nice intermediate level rod/reel combo, but all the different choices are a bit daunting. So, if you had about $200.00 to cash in on a new rod and reel, say 6-8 wt., which make/model would you choose? Thanks, Mike Seeley

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -To the Group, I am interested in your advice on those fly fishing combos I see in the major catalogs. I am building up bit of a pile in the form of bonus bucks with my credit card and was thinking to treat myself to a nice intermediate level rod/reel combo, but all the different choices are a bit daunting. So, if you had about $200.00 to cash in on a new rod and reel, say 6-8 wt., which make/model would you choose? Thanks, Mike Seeley

Check this one out. http://www.ezflyfish.com/ez6wtoutfit.html Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

I will second ezflyfish.com  I brought my wife the 5 wt. trout combo last week.  It is a solid buy for the money and ezflyfish/Wilson Creek Outfitters are a class outfit to do business with. Don – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -To the Group, I am interested in your advice on those fly fishing combos I see in the major catalogs. I am building up bit of a pile in the form of bonus bucks with my credit card and was thinking to treat myself to a nice intermediate level rod/reel combo, but all the different choices are a bit daunting. So, if you had about $200.00 to cash in on a new rod and reel, say 6-8 wt., which make/model would you choose? Thanks, Mike Seeley

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Thaks for the tip. Mike

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Question:

   I wonder if the ironing bit is just precaution  or from experience in dealing with some  customers.

Probably experience unfortunately. . . .<g — Warren Findley www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt

Response:

I ripped a couple of holes in the knees of my breathables at Henry’s Fork. I patched them up well and they no longer leak. Bruce told me of a product that is used to retreat Goretex which will provide a fresh waterproof coating to the outside fabric. Has anyone here used such a product? Willi

I feel for you.  I tore a couple of big holes in my new breathables (in the thigh) back in June.  I have some big patches and blobs of Aquaseal on them which although unsightly (not as unsightly as the wearer) do the job.  I’m really intrigued by the sunpatch<sp? you referred to in an earlier post.  I missed most of a day of fishing waiting for the Aquaseal to harden (and I did use the Cotol accelerant). I doubt there’s any product that can retreat Goretex (or the other breathable membrane products).  Goretex is a thin membrane with really small holes in it.  Any treatment would just clog the holes.  You’re best bet is to find the big holes and fill them up with some kind of goo. I have heard about a treatment product (Nik Wax?) that can be used on the outer surface of things like jackets.  This is applied to the outer layer (nylon, Cordura) to help shed water.   I have reservations about using that on things that are supposed to be breathable – they might help water shedding, but would also block vapor flow.  I would be really reluctant to use such a product on waders. –Stan

Response:

SunPatch has worked great for me, almost instant set in the sun. Unfortunately, last Monday night camping in the backcountry, I poked a hole in my Thermarest pad with a feed through needle knot tool tying on a new leader set up for a friend.  It was 38 degrees, not good for sleeping directly on cold ground after a hard day.  SunPatch may have worked great but will not set/cure ever until put in sun light.  In the future I am carrying both, SunPatch and Aquaseal. Scott

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I ripped a couple of holes in the knees of my breathables at Henry’s Fork. I patched them up well and they no longer leak. Bruce told me of a product that is used to retreat Goretex which will provide a fresh waterproof coating to the outside fabric. Has anyone here used such a product? Willi I feel for you.  I tore a couple of big holes in my new breathables (in the thigh) back in June.  I have some big patches and blobs of Aquaseal on them which although unsightly (not as unsightly as the wearer) do the job.  I’m really intrigued by the sunpatch<sp? you referred to in an earlier post. I missed most of a day of fishing waiting for the Aquaseal to harden (and I did use the Cotol accelerant). I doubt there’s any product that can retreat Goretex (or the other breathable membrane products).  Goretex is a thin membrane with really small holes in it.  Any treatment would just clog the holes.  You’re best bet is to find the big holes and fill them up with some kind of goo. I have heard about a treatment product (Nik Wax?) that can be used on the outer surface of things like jackets.  This is applied to the outer layer (nylon, Cordura) to help shed water.   I have reservations about using that on things that are supposed to be breathable – they might help water shedding, but would also block vapor flow.  I would be really reluctant to use such a product on waders. –Stan

Response:

look for "Tech Wash" by NikWax. The back label reads: "…gently removes dirt. Residue free, non detergent soap protects water repellancy of all breathable fabrics". I boat my wife a goretex coat a couple of years back and this was what the specialist shop recommened be used. They told me water repellancy is degraded when goretex gets dirty. As far as I understand goretex is a waterproof membrane as opposed to other products that are coatings applied to nylon or polyester.

I’ll have to try that.  I usually just use Shout, but I don’t know if that helps protect water repellancy.  BTW, you are correct about the Gore-Tex just being a membrane.  It is sandwiched between a few layers of fabric because the actual Gore-Tex layer is very thin and is kind of like working with a piece of saran wrap. — Warren Findley www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt

Response:

look for "Tech Wash" by NikWax. The back label reads: "…gently removes dirt. Residue free, non detergent soap protects water repellancy of all breathable fabrics". I boat my wife a goretex coat a couple of years back and this was what the specialist shop recommened be used. They told me water repellancy is degraded when goretex gets dirty. As far as I understand goretex is a waterproof membrane as opposed to other products that are coatings applied to nylon or polyester. — RalphH

Response:

—– Original Message —– I ripped a couple of holes in the knees of my breathables at Henry’s Fork. I patched them up well and they no longer leak. Bruce told me of a product that is used to retreat Goretex which will provide a fresh waterproof coating to the outside fabric. Has anyone here used such a product?

Two things that might be of interest here Willi.  Some people were asking about cleaning waders so here is that info.  I tried getting it the other day, but Simms website was down.  If you want to check out the website, just click on the technologies menu and then Gore-Tex fabric.  At the bottom of that page are a bunch of questions.  Click on them to get the answers. "For your Simms/Gore-Tex Waders: Use a pre-wash treatment, such as Shout. Clean waders, either in the bathtub or in the machine on gentle (in cold water). Allow to dry completely. Some stains, such as fly dressings or sap, may be untreatable, but will not affect the breathability of the product. For Gore-Tex Rainwear: Use a pre-wash treatment (such as Shout

Question:

Any thoughts by anyone as to what (sometimes) works there, if anything-ever, would be MOST appreciated.

Bob, Best fishing is in low light conditions….dawn, dusk/dark, rain. (refer back to my ‘Fishing in the rain’ post, the location was the flat water below the Y-Pool.)  In daylight, small flies on 7X/8X tippets will work when the trout are feeding. Sight fishing works much better than using an indicator. Many times the trout simply don’t feed during daylight. If you get too frustrated, go downstream and play with the little rainbows…..they feed all the time. George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

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……back channel me and I will type it for you…

Oh man, this place is getting REALLY disgusting!! Wolfgang "She said,’That ain’t the way to have fun, son.’"

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I think that the absolutely most frustrating place I have ever, ever, fished has to be the Y pool on the Swift below the Quabbin.

<snipped Bob, just got back from a morning on the stream…anyway the owner of the local fly shop was my partner and I brought him up to show him the Roffians and my new vise.  He read your post and muttered, "South Platte Brassy, that’ll do it."  I have no idea if it will, of course,  but I felt compelled to send his suggestion on…If your are at all interested and you don’t have the formula, I found it in one of my books, just back channel me and I will type it for you… Padishar Creel

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello: I think that the absolutely most frustrating place I have ever, ever, fished has to be the Y pool on the Swift below the Quabbin. Was there again yesterday from about 8 AM  to noon, and the Rainbows were so thick you literally had to watch where you stepped.  The density of them was just incredible; it was as if you were in a Hatchery. Naturally, as usual, I didn’t catch anything there.  Must be the world’s most discriminating trout. Not that the few others there did much better-I think one fellow caught one while i was trying. Tried just about everything in the Orvis catalog, from large to midges, dries, nymphys, etc. Even a streamer.  Anyway, was a most beautiful day. Any thoughts by anyone as to what (sometimes) works there, if anything-ever, would be MOST appreciated.

LOL! I’ve been fishing at the deflectors and have witnessed people storming down the trail from the Y-pool just a cussin’ and a fumin’ like you wouldn’t believe. By this time of year those fish will take you to school. I guess it can get the better of you if you aren’t careful… I’ve fished the Y on and off for 35 years. Caught my first big rainbow on a fly there when I was 13. Over the years I’ve had luck at the Y using small PT nymphs, RFSH nymphs, Sulfur dries (late evening hatch), beetles (especially Jassids using real JC nails), ants of various styles, and of course, micro-minutiae midge larva (ie: a #26 is a big one). If the fish aren’t actively feeding, I  still start out with a PT nymph and see what happens.  If the trout are into their "smutting" act, you can try bowling tiny gray or rust midge larva on a long 7x-8x tippet at the risers and strike on anything close. Tough on the eyes – I was much better at this when I was twenty years younger – but it will work. Less often successful, but a lot easier on the eyes, is to plop an ant or beetle down along the rocks on the far side of the tail-out… Fwiw, I used to watch the Old Man of the Y Pool stand for hours catching trout using a small light-blue-over-white streamer. Go figure… /daytripper

Response:

Hello: I think that the absolutely most frustrating place I have ever, ever, fished has to be the Y pool on the Swift below the Quabbin. Was there again yesterday from about 8 AM  to noon, and the Rainbows were so thick you literally had to watch where you stepped.  The density of them was just incredible; it was as if you were in a Hatchery. Naturally, as usual, I didn’t catch anything there.  Must be the world’s most discriminating trout. Not that the few others there did much better-I think one fellow caught one while i was trying. Tried just about everything in the Orvis catalog, from large to midges, dries, nymphys, etc. Even a streamer.  Anyway, was a most beautiful day. Any thoughts by anyone as to what (sometimes) works there, if anything-ever, would be MOST appreciated. Bob

Response:

Try another catalogue perhaps? TL MC — "In order to know what is possible one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello: I think that the absolutely most frustrating place I have ever, ever, fished has to be the Y pool on the Swift below the Quabbin. <SNIP Tried just about everything in the Orvis catalog, from large to midges, dries, nymphys, etc. Even a streamer.  Anyway, was a most beautiful day. Any thoughts by anyone as to what (sometimes) works there, if anything-ever, would be MOST appreciated. Bob

Response:

Question:

A friend sent me ‘ The Top 15 Unforeseen Side-Effects of the Y2K Bug’ which I found rather amusing and I have included them herein, for your perusal. Thise got me to thinking along fishing lines, what will fishing be like in the future?  I’ve only read one short story (sci-fi) about fly fishing, a little ditty called "Ring Trout."  What do you think we can expect? ‘Laser Lines’ that parboil the fish automatically or make for a ‘laser’ guided cast?  Genetically engineered or fish that are otherwise raised to be harder to catch? (Remember my ‘trout swatter idea?) Fish tags with tracking devices to really catch ‘the big one?’ I need some help here fellows, it’s starting to keep me awake…….john              [  The Top 5 List   www.topfive.com  ]              [   Copyright 1999 by Chris White    ] 15 Computer glitch at People Magazine makes Dom DeLuise the     "Sexiest Man Alive!" 14 No power failures, no mass hysteria, but from January 1st on,     everyone’s toast is just a little bit burnt. 13 "Suddenly Susan" suddenly funny. 12 Their computers thwarted, the public library will finally get     their 12-year-overdue copy of "Our Bodies, Our Selves" back     and I… er, my friend won’t have to pay a penny in late fees! 11 Several thousand Internet start-ups simultaneously and     inexplicably turn a profit. 10 World falls under the iron fist of Amish overlords. 9 All "2000 Flushes" toilet bowl sanitizers simultaneously     detonate, causing a "Blue Butt" epidemic in trailer parks     across the US. 8 While speaking at a fund-raiser, Al Gore malfunctions and     shuts down in mid-sentence. 7 Overnight, CompUSA becomes "Crazy Larry’s Liquidation Center." 6 Strom Thurmond starts to receive free birthday ice-cream cones     at Baskin-Robbins. 5 "Student Loan?  No, I’m pretty sure I paid that in full     last month." 4 With all the rioting and looting, your reclusive neighbor     Chuck can finally roam the streets relatively unnoticed in     his halter top and buttless chaps. 3 "First-rate Hunter-gatherer" now a key resume bullet. 2 President Clinton’s January issue of "Hustler" is accidentally     sent to ex-president William McKinley. and Topfive.com’s Number 1 Unforeseen Side-Effect of the Y2K Bug… 1 McDonald’s faces a rash of lawsuits when out-of-work COBOL     programmers begin dumping hot coffee into their laps to     make ends meet.              [  The Top 5 List   www.topfive.com  ]              [   Copyright 1999 by Chris White    ]

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A friend sent me ‘ The Top 15 Unforeseen Side-Effects of the Y2K Bug’ which I found rather amusing and I have included them herein, for your perusal. Thise got me to thinking along fishing lines, what will fishing be like in the future?  I’ve only read one short story (sci-fi) about fly fishing, a little ditty called "Ring Trout."  What do you think we can expect? ‘Laser Lines’ that parboil the fish automatically or make for a ‘laser’ guided cast?  Genetically engineered or fish that are otherwise raised to be harder to catch? (Remember my ‘trout swatter idea?) Fish tags with tracking devices to really catch ‘the big one?’ I need some help here fellows, it’s starting to keep me awake…….john

"Hey Joe, you got anything ?".  "Sure have, just managed to hack into Fish and Games tracking satellite net, three salmon are due in within the next two days".  "Gee, thats great, havent seen a salmon for years, you think we have a chance at them".  "Sure do, just upgraded my $rvis magnetic fish implant tracking device, if one of those mothers gets within ten miles of us we

Question:

Aw c’mon, it’s not that bad!  I was there for the first time in September and thought that it was a great place to fish.  Fished two days with a guide and two days from shore and caught plenty of nice fish all four days.  I thought that the crowds were down from what I was led to believe.  

Response:

Aw c’mon, it’s not that bad!  I was there for the first time in September and thought that it was a great place to fish.  Fished two days with a guide and two days from shore and caught plenty of nice fish all four days.  I thought that the crowds were down from what I was led to believe.

Hi J Miller The crowds on the Bighorn are not as big prior to June and after Labor Day. Even when it is crowded it is a great fishery. You can escape some of the crowds by fishing a back bays and side channels. — Tight Lines ….. Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products http://www.btsflyfishing.com Tiemco quality hooks, under $6.00 pkg/50

Response:

jmiller writes:

Aw c’mon, it’s not that bad!  I was there for the first time in September and th ought that it was a great place to fish.  Fished two days with a guide and two d ays from shore and caught plenty of nice fish all four days.  I thought that the  crowds were down from what I was led to believe.   Absolutely everybody!  Come on out!!  May I suggest the excellent Orvis Shop on the outskirts of Fort Smith?  And for first class lodging don’t forget the justifiably world famous Big Horn Lodge at 12 mile takeout!  Their guides can get anyone into fish! World class fishing in a pristine uncrowded environment.  

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Aw c’mon, it’s not that bad!  I was there for the first time in September and thought that it was a great place to fish.  Fished two days with a guide and two days from shore and caught plenty of nice fish all four days.  I thought that the crowds were down from what I was led to believe. Hi J Miller The crowds on the Bighorn are not as big prior to June and after Labor Day. Even when it is crowded it is a great fishery. You can escape some of the crowds by fishing a back bays and side channels. — Tight Lines ….. Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products http://www.btsflyfishing.com Tiemco quality hooks, under $6.00 pkg/50

CHRIST AL!  Isn’t anything sacred with you around?  You already have Miss Horn stripped naked, and now you want everyone to rape her?  Her over-crowding is due to reporting and writing examples exactly like this.  How else can you slit her throat, tear her heart out?  Why don’t you tell everybody about the private airport there, right below the dam so they can fly in and the guides pick them up?  Don’t let any stone unturned! Why don’t you start submitting some line-drawings of every side ditch, side channel, and all the back-waters?  And .12 cents a hook is too much money!  What won’t you do for a buck Al as you sell Japanese and screw America in the same postings? You lack common-sense Mr. Beatty.  Remind me never to invite you to go fishing with me to any of my secret places.  You would blab it all away to the gill-netters and bait fishing hogs who listen to every word everyone says here. I am seriously disappointed in your unresponsible sharing of the finest waters left in Montana.  The Big Horn is going to get exactly what you think she deserves.   No wonder Jesus threw the money-changers out of the house of God.  I only wish now, that house was in Montana. Mr. G.

Response:

It’s not like the Bighorn is a secret of any sorts and I’m sure that if there are "secret spots" along its shores Mr. Beatty’s comments do in no way direct the bait casting masses to them, he merely restated, politely, what EVERY book on the subject of flyfishing has said for years, don’t overlook the side channels, back eddies, and feeder creeks.  I’m surprised at your ire, it seems unreasonable mr.sportsman. Bob

Remind me never to invite you to go – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – fishing with me to any of my secret places.  You would blab it all away to the gill-netters and bait fishing hogs who listen to every word everyone says here.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Aw c’mon, it’s not that bad!  I was there for the first time in September and thought that it was a great place to fish.  Fished two days with a guide and two days from shore and caught plenty of nice fish all four days.  I thought that the crowds were down from what I was led to believe. Hi J Miller The crowds on the Bighorn are not as big prior to June and after Labor Day. Even when it is crowded it is a great fishery. You can escape some of the crowds by fishing a back bays and side channels. — Tight Lines ….. Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products http://www.btsflyfishing.com Tiemco quality hooks, under $6.00 pkg/50 CHRIST AL!  Isn’t anything sacred with you around?  You already have Miss Horn stripped naked, and now you want everyone to rape her?  Her over-crowding is due to reporting and writing examples exactly like this.  How else can you slit her throat, tear her heart out?  Why don’t you tell everybody about the private airport there, right below the dam so they can fly in and the guides pick them up?  Don’t let any stone unturned! Why don’t you start submitting some line-drawings of every side ditch, side channel, and all the back-waters?  And .12 cents a hook is too much money!  What won’t you do for a buck Al as you sell Japanese and screw America in the same postings? You lack common-sense Mr. Beatty.  Remind me never to invite you to go fishing with me to any of my secret places.  You would blab it all away to the gill-netters and bait fishing hogs who listen to every word everyone says here. I am seriously disappointed in your unresponsible sharing of the finest waters left in Montana.  The Big Horn is going to get exactly what you think she deserves. No wonder Jesus threw the money-changers out of the house of God.  I only wish now, that house was in Montana. Mr. G.

Whats another thousand people or more….eventually people will figure out the Big Horn is too crowded and they will move along to the next river…and then the next river…sadly though, the people that come to Montana to fish once had nice trout streams in their home states…and they could have good fishing streams again if they would give up for one season that trip to Montana and invest the money, and the time in doing something for their local stream…the Battenkill is a good case in point..I was reading a story by Geoff Norman, a Vermont writer, in Snow Country Mag…he was telling people where to fish around the country…one such place was the Battenkill..he called it "a stately little stream.." and "a demanding river that holds big brown trout.." What he doesn’t tell you is two companies put 75-100 canoes on the river every summer day from 8am-9pm…and he doesn’t tell you that Fish and Game can’t do a decent creel survey because there aren’t enough fisherman…maybe people should go to Vermont this summer..they could fish the Battenkill all day and not see another fisherman! Of course the fish are demanding…and not existant.

Response:

I usually ignore the inane or inappropriate posts to this newsgroup, but I can’t let this infuriating one go unchallenged.   To Al Beatty:  Thank you for your continuing honest and accurate newsgroup postings.  I have learned from months of reading them, and from comparing them to my own experiences, that they are informative, accurate, and reliable.  You have helped me and others make occasional decisions concerning flyfishing equipment, technique, and destinations. Please continue your forthright and helpful postings to this newsgroup.   To Mr. G:  Shame on you!

Response:

I usually ignore the inane or inappropriate posts to this newsgroup, but I can’t let this infuriating one go unchallenged. To Al Beatty:  Thank you for your continuing honest and accurate newsgroup postings.  I have learned from months of reading them, and from comparing them to my own experiences, that they are informative, accurate, and reliable.  You have helped me and others make occasional decisions concerning flyfishing equipment, technique, and destinations. Please continue your forthright and helpful postings to this newsgroup. To Mr. G:  Shame on you!

You are probably right Mr. Anderson but it doesn’t mean I need to tell the whole world what rivers they should attack so it can become overcrowded and ruined as ‘a quality experience’.  You take the Net’s power, too much for granted for it is an awesome thing that can mistreat the environment as well as enhance it.  When you go on the Big Horn again and see what such posts will do to it . . . then you live with it.  I’m not here to win a popularity contest by supporting a likable guy that is wrong, and in my opinion, telling everyone in the world where to apply fishing pressure where increased fishing pressure cannot be increased or tolerated requires no apology from me for being frank, honest, and straight-forward.  The truth shouldn’t  hurt unless it should, but in this case, it will be once again a fishery that will pay the price.  Shame on me?!  Hardly, sir! I respect your views . . . but when it comes to the majority, the majority is usually wrong . . . as in this case.  It was the majority that nailed Jesus Christ to the Cross and Joan of Ark to the stake, and it will be the majority that is destroying the Big Horn.  In fact, it already has . . . or haven’t you noticed lately, Mr. Anderson?  Lastly, bear in mind that I’m not Al Beatty’s me-too boy and neither are you, I’m sure, but it was wrong, wrong, wrong to pound a fishery to the point where the entire weight of humanity suddenly is a weight even you, one day, will not be able to tolerate.  Be not so quick to destroy your own reverie in the name of business.  The west, doesn’t have THAT MUCH more good waters left.  Why push it? I therefore must tell you, I feel and deserve no Shame.  Not when it comes to the Big Horn.  Not when Montana still had one good river still running through her.  Kiss her goodby, I think.  The next question is, what other unsung, wonderful fishery do you think you and Beatty should direct the entire fly fishing trade too now?  There isn’t a good river in the world that isn’t destroyed by writers.  I will have none of it. Let your customers find their own places.  Let them fish right outside your door or isn’t there enough fish there anymore?  Don’t send them my way.   Yellowstone Park deserves that trade. But overall, you are right.  But I said nothing about how Al’s experience is helpful to the general public, did I?  I specifically addressed what I think is an inappropriate advertisment for everyone to run to an already over-crowed fishery.  I was one of the first ‘white-men’ to fish this Indian Reservation.  When it was common to hook Rainbows over ten pounds! Kiss that fishery and sizes goodby forever also . . . due to the lack of writing tact!  John Merwin was able to get to it long after it was opened and it was still good enough to have a few remaining giant genes in it.  Ask John Merwin about what I’m talking about and then ask him what happened to that fishery after HE WROTE ABOUT IT!  He sold magazines alright.  That was his business as an editor.  But look who paid the price. Shame on me?  No way Mr. Anderson.  No way at all!  And don’t you dare chew me out for things I never did regarding Mr. Beatty.  I said nothing about his helpfulness, his experiences, his exactness, his knowledge of equipment, about you, about anything regarding his usefulness as a fly fishing capitalist.  Did I?  I’m talking about demeaning a fishery that is already over-burdened, and now this man want to expose the Big Horn’s remaining gene pools for access by the public? Now, I know the general public won’t like this view because they want the easy way out.  I hunt for my areas.  They don’t come to me as a free gift. And when I find them, I keep them lifetime secrets.  Sacred and dear as they are, places in my life I want no others and I don’t care if it is you, my wife, friendly Mr. Beatty, or the President.  I don’t want anyone else there if humanly possible.  Those off the beaten path ways remaining in the Big Horn area are such areas.  Now, the ‘general public’ has been given the entire river Mr. Anderson.  Now, the general public has it all! Don’t chew me out for being frank, but you both are wrong.  And If I’m wrong in my view, I guarantee you I’ll pay the price for it and enough of my friends will tell me so, but I don’t have many areas in America that are sacred and private anymore.  It goes from bad, to worse . . . and none of it is my doing.  You flamed a frank, open and honest opinion that stands on its own merits Mr. Anderson.  I for one don’t deserve your kind of shaming.  Your entire posted support of Al Beatty has nothing to do with what was being discussed, and you know that.  I happen to like the man a lot myself.  It doesn’t mean I have to be his or your ‘yes man’ now, does it?   I don’t think Al Beatty would want me treat him like that.  And I still think paying .12 Cents Each for a Japanese Dry Fly hook is still too much money.  The reason the prices are that high is because no one is stopping from buying them.  I won’t buy a Tiemco Hook at that price. Not when there is only three cents of material in an entire box of 100 each.  How do I know?  I was in Japan and I know about hook manufacturing.  The box or package cost more than the 100 size 16 hooks that are inside.  Think about that truth for a change and tell me, shame on me. mercy, indeed. Mr. G.

Response:

to mr. gherke: get a life

Response:

Al writes… The crowds on the Bighorn are not as big prior to June and after Labor Day. Even when it is crowded it is a great fishery. You can escape some of the crowds by fishing a back bays and side channels. — Mr. G Writes… CHRIST AL!  Isn’t anything sacred with you around?…Snip

Go before June or after Labor day?  I would hardly call that a big secret.  It applies to all of Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, etc…oops I guess I gave away a secret too. MikeH

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PA I usually ignore the inane or inappropriate posts to this newsgroup, but PA I can’t let this infuriating one go unchallenged. PA PA To Mr. G:  Shame on you! Thanks Mr. G for taking a stand against telling the world about M******’s favorite fishing spots. I like Al too, and I guess everyone has to make a living. Personally, I have witnessed far too many styrofoam worm containers on my "private" fishing stretches and I am no longer inclined to tell anyone about my favorite waters (which you will recognize from our mutual friends J & Elna) You might have been a little rough on him considering you have personally told the world about the Skwala hatch (which I personally invented for a little early season fun and don’t appreciate you sharing with others). I forgive you as long as you promise to totally mislead everyone you ever talk to from now on as to exactly what a Skwala is (bright Red with Bright Yellow Stripes);-) and NEVER, EVER tell them what continent these can be found on, much less what four rivers these can be found on. It is human nature to share something that gives us so much pleasure with others that we care about. It is also human nature for many of those others to come trash it with no regard to our feelings. Let us all learn from this experience and let others have the fun of discovering new waters all by themselves. Perhaps you were having a bad day, but I know your heart was in the right place (M******) and I for one appreciate it. I appreciate you too Al! Dennis Vick … nfx v2.6 [C0000]                                                        

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CHRIST AL!  Isn’t anything sacred with you around?  You already have Miss Horn stripped naked, and now you want everyone to rape her? What won’t you do for a buck Al as you sell Japanese and screw America in the same postings?

What’s the matter George?  Does Al keep it up better than you?  I mean his floatant of course…  I’ve said it before George, one blue pill four times a day, not four all at once.

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I usually ignore the inane or inappropriate posts to this newsgroup, but I can’t let this infuriating one go unchallenged. To Al Beatty:  Thank you for your continuing honest and accurate newsgroup postings.  I have learned from months of reading them, and from comparing them to my own experiences, that they are informative, accurate, and reliable.  You have helped me and others make occasional decisions concerning flyfishing equipment, technique, and destinations. Please continue your forthright and helpful postings to this newsgroup. To Mr. G:  Shame on you!

  Nice post Phil. As soon as I saw George’s original post, I sent an e-mail to Al, sharing the same opinions you posted to the group. After two years of lurking this ng, I’ve never seen anybody flame Al Beatty like this. Al doesn’t deserve it, his posts have been more informative than anybody’s; I hope he realizes many of us consider him to be the most knowledgable industry insider who regularly posts on this newsgroup.   There is a vast amount of FF travel info offered up in the media (print, broadcast, www, "how to" videos, etc) and I doubt if any of us hasn’t cringed to see our favorite local water hyped far and wide. I read reviews of "destination" fishing locales with passing interest; I’m hardly inclined to rush right off because some spot was highlighted in this months glossy magazine. In fact, I tend to avoid those places, assuming they will be crowded.   When I pick up a magazine and read about our local rivers I don’t condemn the author. I break out the Delorme map book and find a new place to go, way up in the high country. (Those are the spots to be kept secret, not some 1000+ cfs public waterway.)   I wish I owned my very own river, I’d invite all of you over to fish on it. But hell, there would probably be some guy complaining because I had invited all the rest of you people.                                   Charlie Wilson

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I usually ignore the inane or inappropriate posts to this newsgroup, but I can’t let this infuriating one go unchallenged. (snipped) To Mr. G:  Shame on you! You are probably right Mr. Anderson but it doesn’t mean I need to tell the whole world what rivers they should attack so it can become overcrowded and ruined as ‘a quality experience’.  You take the Net’s power, too much for granted for it is an awesome thing that can  destroying the Big Horn.  In fact, it already has . . . or haven’t you noticed lately, Mr. Anderson?  Lastly, bear in mind that I’m not Al (snipped) Mr. G.

Now that we’ve brought Jesus Christ and Joan of Arc in this, why should I go where even angels will fear to tread.  Undaunted, however, I will press my point.  George, I fully support Mr. Anderson’s view, and I think you are way out of line on this one.  This is the Bighorn we are talking about, not some unknown water suddenly disclosed over the internet.   Unless you just woke up this morning from a 10 year nap, you know that it is overcrowded (at times) and overfished.  Whether or not Al or anyone else discusses the Bighorn will make no difference. I can personally vouch for the fact that Al Beatty does not post about certain rivers, or portions thereof, to avoid creating undue pressure on those areas.  With the Bighorn, however, there is no reason for him to withold helpful comments broadcast over the newsgroup, because people will go there anyway. And to Al, thanks for all of your contributions. Mark Faulkner

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m thinking of trying the Bighorn River near Ft. Smith in late October. Is there wade fishing available or must I float to fish? What is the weather likely to be that time of the year? I read the Bighorn is VERY crowded. How about in late October? If anyone has any information I’d really appreciate the help. Thanks. The Bighorn in late October will not be as crowded in October as in the summer, it can still be busy. As far as the weather better bring your wool hat and gloves as well as short sleeves. It tough to predict but more likely cold rather then hot. Boats are used for transportation on the river more then for fishing. Bill Page

Seriously?  Want the truth?  There isn’t a fish there that hasn’t had a hook put into its face.  You take it from there.  And yes, you need to be guided on it in a drift boat.  You may fly fish inbetween the spin fishermen using treble hooks. And no matter what others tell you, the Mepps gang is there. Have fun. Mr. G.

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I’m thinking of trying the Bighorn River near Ft. Smith in late October. Is there wade fishing available or must I float to fish? What is the weather likely to be that time of the year? I read the Bighorn is VERY crowded. How about in late October? If anyone has any information I’d really appreciate the help. Thanks.

Hi David October is my favorite time for fishing Montana (including the Bighorn). The crowds are not as bad there at that time but still expect to see a few but it shouldn’t be the zoo it is earlier in the year. You can wade fish the Bighorn but some of those places are only accessable with a drift boat. You might consider a guided trip your first day and then rent a drift boat for future days. Most of the shops in Fort Smith rent boats and shuttle for you. The weather in Montana (especially around the Bighorn) is VOLITILE (?) with 50 degree temperature swings in a matter of minutes not uncommon. Dress in layers and be prepared for anything from a hot sunny day to a snow storm all in the same afternoon. Note: If you fly into Billings and rent a car to get to Ft Smith be aware that about six miles east of town you have to take an exit to stay on I-90 east to Hardin. It’s real easy to miss the exit and end up on the Hwy east to Miles City. Good luck. — Tight Lines ….. Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products http://www.btsflyfishing.com Tiemco quality hooks, under $6.00 pkg/50

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I’m thinking of trying the Bighorn River near Ft. Smith in late October. Is there wade fishing available or must I float to fish? What is the weather likely to be that time of the year? I read the Bighorn is VERY crowded. How about in late October? If anyone has any information I’d really appreciate the help. Thanks.

The Bighorn in late October will not be as crowded in October as in the summer, it can still be busy. As far as the weather better bring your wool hat and gloves as well as short sleeves. It tough to predict but more likely cold rather then hot. Boats are used for transportation on the river more then for fishing. Bill Page

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m thinking of trying the Bighorn River near Ft. Smith in late October. Is there wade fishing available or must I float to fish? What is the weather likely to be that time of the year? I read the Bighorn is VERY crowded. How about in late October? If anyone has any information I’d really appreciate the help. Thanks. The Bighorn in late October will not be as crowded in October as in the summer, it can still be busy. As far as the weather better bring your wool hat and gloves as well as short sleeves. It tough to predict but more likely cold rather then hot. Boats are used for transportation on the river more then for fishing. Bill Page

Seriously?  Want the truth?  There isn’t a fish there that hasn’t had a hook put into its face.  You take it from there.  And yes, you need to be guided on it in a drift boat.  You may fly fish inbetween the spin fishermen using treble hooks. Have fun. Mr. G.

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I’m thinking of trying the Bighorn River near Ft. Smith in late October. Is there wade fishing available or must I float to fish? What is the weather likely to be that time of the year? I read the Bighorn is VERY crowded. How about in late October? If anyone has any information I’d really appreciate the help. Thanks.

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Question:

Will be traveling to Glacier National Park, Montana on the long weekend in September with my wife.  I am wanting to know of any streams or creeks that might provide some flyfishing recreational pleasure.  (Time is limited considering that my wife will be with me on this trip – any advice would be greatly appreciated – I am sure that there are a few flyfisherman whose flyfishing time is limited due to their spouse being on vacation with them)  Are there any sports shops or fly fishing outlets in the Glacier National Park area that might provide some good advice regarding streams, creeks, hatches, flies, etc.  Any information would be helpful since my flyfishing experience has mainly been in Alberta, Canada. Thanks in advance! Jon H.

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I fished the Middle Fork of the Flathead River back in September of 1995 (my honeymoon trip).  I had a great time being guided by one of the guys at Montana Raft company; the guy lives, breathes, and eats flyfishing. Mostly cutthroats. ENJOY!!!

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Question:

Keywords: Chile or Peru Hot Spots Re:Fly Fisihing in Peru or Chile. I am going to these countries next week and would like to do some fly fishing.  Anyone know of som hot spots?

I have a good friend in Santiago, Chile who owns a store called Fly Shop Ltda. He has many contacts with different fishing camps and lodges throughout Chile.  The best thing is to send him a fax with any questions or request and he will respond promptly.   Gonzalo Cortes de la Cerda Av. Manquehue Norte 1260 Santiago Chile Phone Fax  011-56-2-2018571   Good Luck!! Chile is a Great Place!!                       Marcos Vergara                       Fly & Field, Inc.                       1-800-328-9753

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Re:Fly Fisihing in Peru or Chile. I am going to these countries next week and would like to do some fly fishing.  Anyone know of som hot spots?

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Question:

   I was fly fishing on the North Fork of the Yuba above Downeyville California one fall when a couple of gold miners dredging for gold called me over and showed me a Brown trout that was 36" long.  It was beautiful, and I belive it was female because the bottom of the tail fin was worn away from years of spawning.  Perhaps she had just spawned, because she was lean and did not look like she was carrying eggs.    They wanted to know if it would be ok to eat it, they said it was acting very sluggish and they had caught it with their hands.  I told them I didn’t know why the trout had acted as it did.    I have often wondered why they were able to catch that trout so easily, was she dying?  Was she weak from spawning?   Does anyone have any ideas? Ernie Harrison  

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   I was fly fishing on the North Fork of the Yuba above Downeyville California one fall when a couple of gold miners dredging for gold called me over and showed me a Brown trout that was 36" long.  It was beautiful, and I belive it was female because the bottom of the tail fin was worn away from years of spawning.  Perhaps she had just spawned, because she was lean and did not look like she was carrying eggs.   They wanted to know if it would be ok to eat it, they said it was acting very sluggish and they had caught it with their hands.  I told them I didn’t know why the trout had acted as it did.   I have often wondered why they were able to catch that trout so easily, was she dying?  Was she weak from spawning?   Does anyone have any ideas? Ernie Harrison  

It sounds like you’re right on the money. I would suspect the fish had just finished spawning. Typically a spawned out fish, females in particular, will be pretty sluggish after this event. There immune systems aren’t working very well, and most of there energy has gone into building the redd and depositing the eggs. Fish in this condition are not worth eating and it seems a little heartless to harrass them.I would guess that this was a pretty old fish, possibly 8 to 10 years old. At fish hatcheries, I’ve known of fish that lived over 10 years. This would be pretty rare in the wild, but not impossible. Hope this helps. Tim

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Question:

The best outfitters, Kaufman Streamborn in downtown Seattle and Bellevue. Warshalls at First Ave and Madison. Would like to fish with you but I live in NSW Australia. Try Mountain Lake on Orcas Island. Brooks, cutthroat anf Kokanee. Tight lines Dick Willis

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Hey!  If everyone is not completely burned out on "I’m going to be …Where can I fish posts?", I have a serious post to post. I am moving to Washington state.  Bellvue to be exact.  

Actually Mark, you need a new atlas.  Bellvue is no longer in Washington State.  It is about dead center of the northern most county of the newly annexed portion of California.  The county name is "Eyefivia", and includes roughly everything thirty miles either side of Interstate 5. i would love to hear where the good spots are, as long as you don’t mind divulging your local hotspot.

I wouldn’t mind, if there were any.  Actually, I can’t fairly say that.  Even though I have to make business trips there often, talk to the locals about their water, and basically, if it aint a salmon, they don’t care about it.   Being a trout man myself, Eyefivia has little appeal. If you do prefer trout, head east to the real Washington, or better yet, Idaho. I am also going to need to find a new fly fishing store.  The one I go to now is impecable.  The Fly Angler, in Fridley Minnesota.  I highly recomend them.  However, they are not good enough to warrant travel from Washington to get outfitted when I run low on things.  So… Any good fly shops in Bellvue?

Don’t be too quick to abandon your shop.  It might just beat the prices anyway.  Valet parking and required Tux’s for Bellvue shops can get spendy, and they’re a hassle.  Besides, if you go with a shop in Yakima, Spokane, or anywhere else to the East of Eyefivia, you have an excuse to get to where the fishing is. Also, I HATE fishing alone all the time.  I have a few friends who flyfish here in Minnesota, but alas, they are staying in this land of ten thousand lakes.  I have no problem with wetting a line by myself on a regular basis, but everybody needs fishin’ buddies.  Is there anyone in the Bellvue/Seattle/Issaquah area who is looking for someone to drown some flies with.  I am house broken (according to my wife), educated (according to my student loans), and way too obsessed with fishing (according to my friends).  So if anyone wants to fish with the nicest guy my wife has ever lived with, let me know.  Any info will be appreciated, and all responses will receive a friendly thankyou from me.   Thanks in advance.

Sorry I’m not from there (thankfully , ‘cuz you sound like you’ld be fun to fish with.  I am often on the lakes of Eastern Washington, so don’t be afraid to holler howdy.  I’ll be the guy in a blue Super Cat (a small pontoon craft sold by Clearwater Anglers in Auburn – about an hour south of where you’re moving to), in the center of a gordian wind knot.  Bring a knife.  You may have to cut me free from the effects of my famous casting ability. – Dick

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Hey!  If everyone is not completely burned out on "I’m going to be ..Where can I fish posts?", I have a serious post to post. I am moving to Washington state.  Bellvue to be exact.  i would love to hear wheere the good spots are, as long as you don’t mind divulging your local hotspot. I am also going to need to find a new fly fishing store.  The one I go to now is impecable.  The Fly Angler, in Fridley Minnesota.  I highly recomend them.  However, they are not good enough to warrant travel from Washington to get outfitted when I run low on things.  So… Any good fly shops in Bellvue? Also, I HATE fishing alone all the time.  I have a few friends who flyfish here in Minnesota, but alas, they are staying in this land of ten thousand lakes.  I have no problem with wetting a line by myself on a regular basis, but everybody needs fishin’ buddies.  Is there anyone in the Bellvue/Seattle/Issaquah area who is looking for someone to drown some flies with.  I am house broken (according to my wife), educated (according to my student loans), and way too obsessed with fishing (according to my friends).  So if anyone wants to fish with the nicest guy my wife has ever lived with, let me know.  Any info will be appreciated, and all responses will receive a friendly thankyou from me.   Thanks in advance.

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There is also "Avid Angler" and "Swallow’s Nest" in Seattle. The Yakima River is just over the hill; in the early Spring Pass Lake at Deception Pass is good.  Then there are the Stillaguamish and Skykomish Rivers.  Or, if you’re into trying the saltwater, there are numerous places to fish for salmon in Puget Sound.  And the good part is – that is only the beginning. Also in the Spring, plan on making trips to the Eastern side of the state for Lenice and Dry Falls Lakes and Rocky Ford Creek.  Many of these are flyfishing only. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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Question:

done some diving from a kayak, and have found the following to be true: 1. You must make sure that your fins are secured in the boat. Most sink and will be of no use to you at the bottom of the sea. 2. You often need two hands to put fins on. If you don’t attach yourself to the boat and are still in a situation where it seems advantageous to be with your boat, this can be a problem. Additionally, if you don’t wear the booties you use with your fins, they are probably of little or no use. Fins that fit improperly are painful, at best, and frequently of little use.

A company call Caddis makes fins for float-tube fisherman.  They float and fit any size shoes, booties, etc.  You can probably find them at your local fly fishing store. — -Wayne Trzyna

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1. You must make sure that your fins are secured in the boat. Most sink and will be of no use to you at the bottom of the sea.

A company called Caddis makes fins for float tube fisherman.  The fins float and fit any shoes. booties, etc.  You can probably find them at your local fly fishing store. — -Wayne Trzyna

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I can’t help but think that a pair of fins stowed in your sea kayak would be a tremendous safety feature. Anyone who has used fins can testify that they are a HUGE advantage when swimming. Do any of you sea kayakers carry them?

Doug, I’ve considered this myself at times. I scuba as well as kayak, and have even done some diving from a kayak, and have found the following to be true: 1. You must make sure that your fins are secured in the boat. Most sink and will be of no use to you at the bottom of the sea. 2. You often need two hands to put fins on. If you don’t attach yourself to the boat and are still in a situation where it seems advantageous to be with your boat, this can be a problem. Additionally, if you don’t wear the booties you use with your fins, they are probably of little or no use. Fins that fit improperly are painful, at best, and frequently of little use. 3. Fins are still of little use in a strong current. What they provide in power, they cost in energy. I have seen many divers grow fatigued and give up after kicking under 100 yards against a slow current. They seemed to think the fins gave them enough power to overcome anything and never took the time to learn about currents and how to avoid same. If the distance is great, it is certainly wiser to find the way to cross the current than it is to don fins and swim directly into its teeth. 4. Preparing for cold water immersion is worth more than all the additional equipment you can carry. If you have your warmth, you don’t need to swim great distances or fight currents because you can wait for rescue. This means that you should make someone aware of your activities and location, that you should set a "drop dead" time, after which this person contacts the coast guard or relevant rescue agency, and that you should do your best to stay visible (more on these issues when I post the next article – I’ve just got to remember to bring in the magazine – there is also a discussion on fins in there too, but I don’t remember their conclusions – these comments are wholly my own). Anyway, it seems to me that if you are forced to swim, recognizing currents and avoiding them will be of more benefit. Fins can be a useful backup, but as always, if you are going to use them, practice. If you lose the fins when the boat capsizes or when you are trying to put them on in heavy conditions, you may find yourself in a nasty situation, especially if you are counting on them to get you to shore. Rick

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 Hello, everyone,  although somewhat edited for brevity, the following is a description of an  accident (in Coos bay) and two incidents that (in Kalaloch Beach – part of Olympic National Park in Wash.) we should all take note of. Everything  in quotes is taken directly from the article.

Thanks for posting this.  I think we all need a reminder from time to time. Nature is way bigger than we are…..

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I can’t help but think that a pair of fins stowed in your sea kayak would be a tremendous safety feature. Anyone who has used fins can testify that they are a HUGE advantage when swimming. Do any of you sea kayakers carry them?

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Hello, everyone, although somewhat edited for brevity, the following is a description of an accident (in Coos bay) and two incidents that (in Kalaloch Beach – part of Olympic National Park in Wash.) we should all take note of. Everything in quotes is taken directly from the article. "Eric Konheim, 27, died on June 12, 1991, while kayak surfing alone…. Eric was a skilled kayaker, proud of his ability to roll and to read moving water… In 1987, Eric bought a folding sea kayak and began taking trips, including a 450-mile expedition along the Gulf Coast from Belize to Cancun, Mexico. He also paddled in the Sea of Cortez, the Bahamas, and along the coast of Venezuela. In 1988, he took a river kayaking class in Colorado and bought a white-water kayak. He kayaked many white-water rivers and was a commercial raft guide." … Eric’s companion was feeling ill and decided not to go out with him to do some kayak surfing in his Prijon T-Slalom kayak. Although this was a surfing accident, going in and out of surf is something we sea kayakers MUST do every time we go out, so don’t think ‘this can’t happen to me.’ It CAN. Enough commentary. "After telling Dave he would surf only for a short while, Eric went out alone at about 4 p.m. Dave took a nap and woake about a half hour later. He began looking for Eric and around 5 p.m. found his friend’s kayak floating in the surf. Unable to find Eric, he called for help." Eric was found at 6 p.m. by a Coast Guard Chopper (these guys don’t get enough credit – it’s too bad that they can only pick up the pieces afterward). He was 150 yards off short (an easy swim for someone who swam competitively, you may say, but I swam in college and done some open water swimming in strong currents. Believe me,150 yards can be a very LONG swim!). He was wearing: "a helmet, a PFD with a whistle and knife attached, a neoprene spray skirt, a pull-over pile jacket, and a long sleeve paddle jacket. Eric’s kayak and paddle were found in good condition. He had not worn either his wet suit or his dry suit, though he had both with him in his van. Eric knew about hypothermia: he had had EMT training and river guide training." … "The official cause of death listed on the medical examiner’s report is "asphyxia by drowning, immersion hyperthermia." This is reasonable considering the water temperature was 50-53 degrees Fahrenheit, and Eric was tall and thin and was not wearing much thermal protection. HIs core temper- ature was 73 degrees." The author points out that Eric (though wearing a helmet) may have been knocked out by his paddle. "I once broke the aluminum shaft of a sturdy white-water paddle while getting pitch poled…The water was deep, the  paddle hit nothing but water. The smooth curve left in the broken shaft proved there were no defects in the paddle. An engineering analysis later showed it took more than 200 pounts of force to break that paddle. If it had hit my head with that force… who knows?" In any case, this article brings out some interesting and notable points. If you do go out alone, please take all the cold water immersion protection you can. It’s really easy to cool off by doing a roll, but it just ain’t so easy to get warm. The other two stories are about currents. Both kayakers found themselves in the water 75 or more yards from shore. The first was wearing "a 1/8 inch farmer john-style wet suit, a PFD, neoprene spray skirt, helmet, and watersport sandals….I began swimming for the beach with both hands on the stern of my boat. After a while, it appeared my effort had been wasted; I was no closer to the beach." He lost a float bag from the kayak and it did a Cleopatra’s Needle when it filled, so he finally abandoned the boat. He found the surf conditions too rough for reentry. He tried to use his paddle to propel himself, but gave up after some fruitless effort. By this time, 40 minutes has passed and he is still no closer to shore. He believes that he didn’t realize he was caught in a rip current because his thinking was impaired by cold water shock. Finally, he began swimming cross-current and made his way back to shore once he exited the current. The good news is that he had been seen by a "couple on the beach," who called for help. The coast guard had responded, but he managed to get out before they arrived. Same story, same place, different person. Bill "had once played in a rip current…and he had been out in ocean swells…but this was his first time kayaking in ocean surf. Bill didn’t have a roll, but the though he could perform a self rescue or swim to shore if he capsized. Bill is a strong, formerly competitive, swimmer with SCUBA diving experience. He is very com- fortable in and around the water. His kayak had front and rear bulkheads…He wore a 1/4-inch-thick, full wet suit" (his scuba suit) "polypropylene long underwear, neoprene tooties, a neoprene diver’s hood, a paddling jacket, and a PFD." He also had a bilge pump, paddle float, and some flares. Bill was separated from his kayak by the heavy surf (8 foot breakers). "He tried in vain to re-enter the kayak using a paddle-float outrigger…He could only get half way in before another wave would hit and knock him over. After 10 minutes of unsuccessful self-rescue attempts, he realized he and his kayak were drifing dangerously close to the rocks." He fired a flare and watched a beachcombers pointed at the pretty color and resumed their activities. I guess flares only work if people understand what they are for. Bill finally decided it was time to part ways with his kayak. "He retrieved his paddle and the paddle float and began swimming toward shore with the paddle float under his chest. After about a half hour of swimming, he realized he was losing ground." See, not even we good swimmers can out swim a current. "He was about 300 yards from shore and quickly became exhausted…He had one thing in his favor: his 1/4-inch-thick wetsuit was keeping him warm." He "began body surfing toward shore for all he was worth. While swimming a crawl stroke with the paddle was unproductive, by holding it against his chest, he discovered the waves would push it and carry him toward shore. (An experienced paddler told me that he has used his paddle to advantage while swimming in surf, but unlike others I’ve talked to, he uses the paddle while swimming backstroke. His technique is similar to back paddling a kayak). Bill found he could steer across the waves by shifting the paddle in his hands. Using the paddle this way let him angle away from the rocks." "Lessons Learned: While the first paddler became chilled and possibly hypo- thermic in his 1/8 inch farmer john wet suit, Bill’s 1/4 inch thick full suit, booties, and hood actually kept him too warm! Soon after reaching shore, Bill removed some of his wet-suit clothing to cool off. In the water, Bill worried only about exhaustion and the rocks… In my experience, 1/8 inch thick Farmer John wet suits are not adequate protection for prolonged immersion in 50- degree water." This was all printed without permission, however, I feel safety is more important than copywrites. Everyone who goes kayaking should learn to roll. These two stories should let you know just how helpless a kayaker is in 50 degree water when currents are strong. The very gear you must wear to protect you from becoming hypothermic will make you a very weak (but bouyant) swimmer. You must use other methods of getting in and out of heavy conditions. If you must, leave the boat. It does provide a lot of bouyancy, but if you don’t have more than an hour of cold water protection, you’ve got to get going quickly. Don’t waste time waiting for help, you are your own best defense against accident. Well enough diatribe. If you wish, I will post other safety articles from Sea Kayaker when it comes out. Rick

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