Question:

Yes Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can anyone tell me, if Sage-rods are really the best ones.

Response:

Hi, Tom. I have 3 Sage rods, a 590-3SP, a 389-LL, and a DS590-4 for a backup. They all cast differently.  And they’re each suited to my needs. Sage service has been excellent, $20 for each of my problems. (I’ve had 4 through the years). The costs for new rods are not small, but you do get what you pay for. A good place to look for used or discounted Sages is www.flyshop.com Go to the auction.   Tight lines. Dick Weinkle

Response:

Yes Dave

wow, someone from bainbridge who thinks sage rods are the best <G btw, i like them too. chris

Response:

after working in a fly shop for quite some time while, i have found that most beginners prefer slower action rods…theyre a little more forgiving… I think that’s true, but it can be unfortunate. A beginner’s rod to some degree teaches the beginner to cast. He’ll adjust his technique to the rod. There’s a place for both fast-action and slow-action rods. You should learn how to cast both kinds.

I must say that for fly fishing on difficult chalk streams, I, too, like a slow action. I think delicacy is more important than distance3, or even accuracy. My Sage LL 3-89 is my favourite rod for difficult trout. But I agree that lots of different people make good rods, and I think that when you’re starting, you should take a cheaper rod, and then decide what you like. I’ve just persuaded two starter fly fishers to buy Hardy 9 foot classics, 5/6 or 6/7 weight, which is outdated (and therefore cheap) but one of my favourite rods. I know that a number of other people who like me fish the Itchen and Test use the same rod. Tony

Response:

Can anyone tell me, if Sage-rods are really the best ones. What can you recomend? I whould likt to buy a new rod for dryfly-fishing (trouts in Austria). An advice for a good reel whould be helpful as well. Thanks Tom http://www.resi.at/tom-online Before you buy.

Response:

Can anyone tell me, if Sage-rods are really the best ones. What can you recomend? I whould likt to buy a new rod for dryfly-fishing (trouts in Austria). An advice for a good reel whould be helpful as well.

Tom, It is all a matter of opinion.  Personally, I like Sage rods.  I really like the lifetime warranty and the product, but that is just me.  There are several good rods out on the market, but it is important to find the one that best suits YOU.  Don’t get a rod just because people tell you it is the best.  Cast and compare and find the one that suits your casting style and actually works for you.  Unless of course you are merely modeling your gear. — Warren Findley Member of the Clavemeister Club Before you buy.

Response:

Can anyone tell me, if Sage-rods are really the best ones. What can you recomend? I whould likt to buy a new rod for dryfly-fishing (trouts in Austria). An advice for a good reel whould be helpful as well. Thanks Tom

Tom, That’s a very hard question to answer. It’s very difficult to say that one manufacturer’s rods are ‘the best’. There are a number of good rods around: Sage, Scott, Loomis, St. Croix, Redington, Powell, Orvis, & others. In addition, there are differences in action within a particular maker’s rods. For example, a Sage SP isn’t going to cast like an XP, which is different from an RPL+. A lot depends on your casting style, what kind of action feels good to you, and especially the conditions under which you’ll be fishing. Are the rivers large, the fish big, and will you be casting big flies ? Or are the rivers small, 10m – 15m or less, and the flies & the fish smaller as well? Unless you have a need to throw a lot of line or constantly must content with a lot of wind, a really fast action rod probably isn’t necessary. A Sage SP or a G-series Scott or similar might be just the ticket. But not if you don’t like the action. See what I mean? It’s very subjective. You really need to try as many different rods as you can to see what you like that’s within the price range you have in mind. I don’t know if you have access to St.Croix rods, but they seem to be a lot of rod for the money. I know I asked more questions than I answered, but I hope this helps some. Regards, Bob Before you buy.

Response:

Since you’re in Europe, you might find a Vivarelli reel more easy to locate there.  Ask Mike Conner about them, they’re neat. Sage, like most companies, makes several rod actions.  I would say that there’s a best action (for you) before I would say there’s a best rod brand.  Some prefer a bit faster for fishing dries specifically, as far as purely casting goes. Jeff (looking for a used Sage VPS 9′ 5 wt myself) Can anyone tell me, if Sage-rods are really the best ones. What can you recomend? I whould likt to buy a new rod for dryfly-fishing (trouts in Austria). An advice for a good reel whould be helpful as well.

Before you buy.

Response:

after working in a fly shop for quite some time while, i have found that most beginners prefer slower action rods…theyre a little more forgiving…dont forget, as well, to think about what youre gonna be using your rod for…and if youre not sure how that works, ask the shop pro, he/she can tell ya…and if the shop you go to doesnt ask you if you want to cast rods to try them out…id try another shop… my 2cents, roy

Response:

after working in a fly shop for quite some time while, i have found that most beginners prefer slower action rods…theyre a little more forgiving…

I think that’s true, but it can be unfortunate. A beginner’s rod to some degree teaches the beginner to cast. He’ll adjust his technique to the rod. There’s a place for both fast-action and slow-action rods. You should learn how to cast both kinds. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Question:

We are planning on a trip – Montreal to Vancouver would appreciate comments regarding best road route to use. CGs also please. Trip about May / June this year. Is this too early, don’t want snow. Thanks and greetings to all Aubrey

Response:

Shouldn’t have many concerns about snow in May, June. I’ll bet you would enjoy the Trans Canada Highway. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We are planning on a trip – Montreal to Vancouver would appreciate comments regarding best road route to use. CGs also please. Trip about May / June this year. Is this too early, don’t want snow. Thanks and greetings to all Aubrey

Response:

Having done the trip I would suggest Hwy 17 from Montreal to Winnipeg then the Yellowhead Hwy from Winnipeg to BC via Regina and Edmonton then back down to Hwy 1 for the trip to Banff and down into Vancouver.  When travelling in Northern Ontario you should focus on the Provincial Park system around the top of Lake Superior, the campgrounds are beautiful and serviced.  Early May could be a problem for open campgrounds but the end of May and June will be fine except for BLACK FLIES which MAY – MAY be bad from time to time. Its beautiful countryside, enjoy. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -We are planning on a trip – Montreal to Vancouver would appreciate comments regarding best road route to use.

Response:

We are planning on a trip – Montreal to Vancouver would appreciate comments regarding best road route to use. CGs also please. Trip about May / June this year. Is this too early, don’t want snow. Thanks and greetings to all Aubrey

    Well there was the time,west of Calgaryt in mid May 1985, that we got caught in an unexpected Spring snowstorm that reduce highway #1 down to one lane through really wet ,heavy stuff.  We arrived in Calgary and headed North where there had been no snow at all.    Last year we visited Jasper in mid May and everything was extremely dry.   This year Edmonton has had tons of snow but it’s so dry South of Red Deer that some areas have had grass fires.    Go for it but be prepared for anything, at least an RV will give you the option of getting off the road if the weather gets bad.    I concur with Bill on not missing the Jasper -Banff highway. Most people here say that the North to South route is easier for heavy vehicles and most of the best view points are on that side of the road.   Happy camping. Roy Schmaus http://www.ee.ualberta.ca/~schmaus/

Response:

Having done the trip I would suggest Hwy 17 from Montreal to Winnipeg then the Yellowhead Hwy from Winnipeg to BC via Regina and Edmonton then back

This is good advice, however the Yellowhead will miss Regina.  Missing Regina is a good thing.   (Prepare yourself – sales pitch for Saskatchewan approaching) The Yellowhead will take you through Yorkton, Saskatoon & North Battleford.  Within three hours to the north of any of these cities are some beautiful parks that could be destinations for your trip.  I realize you want to "see Canada" but you really should take the time to travel to Waskesiu.  If you like golfing (which I don’t) it has a course that ranks with any in Canada.  It is a national park so you get the wildlife thing (elk, deer, bear).  We don’t consider it good fishing (because it is so much better if you go a little further north) but most north americans would.  There is a good full service campground as well as a large area with electric only sites or unserviced sites.  I believe they have something over 300 sites in total.  Just outside the park at Elk Ridge is a brand new full service RV park attached to an 18 hole golf course. If you get past Waskesiu into northern Saskatchewan you can find everything from fully serviced to fully primitive camping.  You can fly into some of the best freshwater fishing in the world.  If you know where to go you can drive to some pretty damn good fishing.  Just drop me even the slightest hint that you are interested and I will deluge you with information. Once you get past Saskatchewan it is all downhill but there are some sort of pretty spots.   :-} There’s the obvious stuff that everyone goes to – Banff, L.Louise, Jasper, Columbia Icefields.  Off the beaten path a bit there are some really nice spots.  We like the Kootenay Valley – there is a park on the east shore of Kootenay Lake that we like – I think it is Whispering Cedars or something like that.  On the other side of Kootenay lake don’t miss the historic town of Kaslo and the ghost town of Sandon.  There are natural hot springs at Nakusp and at Ainsworth. Another lovely area is the Sicamous lakes around Salmon Arm, BC.   Just make sure not to miss Saskatchewan.

Response:

That time of the year should be fine.  Canada is no colder than the upper U.S. and we did away with our igloos some time ago.  You only have one direct route here if you want to come right across and that is Hwy #1 the Trans Canada Highway.  Very pretty drive once you enter Alberta and British Columbia.  This route takes you through Banff and the interior of British columbia which at that time of the year gets into the high 80s.  Have a nice trip and enjoy Canada. Rick – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We are planning on a trip – Montreal to Vancouver would appreciate comments regarding best road route to use. CGs also please. Trip about May / June this year. Is this too early, don’t want snow. Thanks and greetings to all Aubrey

Response:

That time of the year should be fine.  Canada is no colder than the upper U.S. We are planning on a trip – Montreal to Vancouver would appreciate comments regarding best road route to use. CGs also please. Trip about May / June this year. Is this too early, don’t want snow.

You shouldn’t have any trouble. I took the train across Canada one year from Cape Breton Island, NS to Hazelton, BC and back, in March, and saw little snow. Today I drove halfway up the west coast of Newfoundland and there was no snow on the highway. Bet you’ll have a great trip in May/June. But just the same, keep an eye on the weather. Here’s one of my favourite weather websites:                 http://icons.wunderground.com/global/CN_ST_Index.html Doug

Response:

And mighty fine ones at that!  Born and raised there myself.  What more need be said. : ) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Someone once said that the best way to see Saskatchewan is in your rear view mirror! I can’t let that pass but I don’t know what else to say except that our biggest export is people.

Response:

Someone once said that the best way to see Saskatchewan is in your rear view mirror!

I can’t let that pass but I don’t know what else to say except that our biggest export is people.

Response:

Someone once said that the best way to see Saskatchewan is in your rear view mirror! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Having done the trip I would suggest Hwy 17 from Montreal to Winnipeg then the Yellowhead Hwy from Winnipeg to BC via Regina and Edmonton then back This is good advice, however the Yellowhead will miss Regina.  Missing Regina is a good thing. (Prepare yourself – sales pitch for Saskatchewan approaching) The Yellowhead will take you through Yorkton, Saskatoon & North Battleford.  Within three hours to the north of any of these cities are some beautiful parks that could be destinations for your trip.  I realize you want to "see Canada" but you really should take the time to travel to Waskesiu.  If you like golfing (which I don’t) it has a course that ranks with any in Canada.  It is a national park so you get the wildlife thing (elk, deer, bear).  We don’t consider it good fishing (because it is so much better if you go a little further north) but most north americans would.  There is a good full service campground as well as a large area with electric only sites or unserviced sites.  I believe they have something over 300 sites in total.  Just outside the park at Elk Ridge is a brand new full service RV park attached to an 18 hole golf course. If you get past Waskesiu into northern Saskatchewan you can find everything from fully serviced to fully primitive camping.  You can fly into some of the best freshwater fishing in the world.  If you know where to go you can drive to some pretty damn good fishing.  Just drop me even the slightest hint that you are interested and I will deluge you with information. Once you get past Saskatchewan it is all downhill but there are some sort of pretty spots.   :-} There’s the obvious stuff that everyone goes to – Banff, L.Louise, Jasper, Columbia Icefields.  Off the beaten path a bit there are some really nice spots.  We like the Kootenay Valley – there is a park on the east shore of Kootenay Lake that we like – I think it is Whispering Cedars or something like that.  On the other side of Kootenay lake don’t miss the historic town of Kaslo and the ghost town of Sandon.  There are natural hot springs at Nakusp and at Ainsworth. Another lovely area is the Sicamous lakes around Salmon Arm, BC. Just make sure not to miss Saskatchewan.

Response:

Question:

I am planning to travel  to Tasmania from Melbourne for  5 to 6 days. I am thinking to travel by ship (Spirit of Tasmania ?) and then rent a car to drive around the National Park (Cradle Mountains). These ideas are gleaned from some travel brochures. Appreciate advice to modify my plans and also suggestions as to where to visit and where to stay.  Thanks in advance.

Response:

I am planning to travel  to Tasmania from Melbourne for  5 to 6 days.

No! Go for longer! Tasmania is great! I am thinking to travel by ship (Spirit of Tasmania ?) and then rent a car to drive around the National Park (Cradle Mountains). These ideas are gleaned from some travel brochures.

You can also fly various routes, and the difference in price (particularly if you book 1 month in advance) is small. If you’re after cheap car rental with something different, Rent a Bug in Devonport are quite good (well they were with me anyway) where you get a VW Beetle! Cradle Mountain is definitely worth a visit, and stay there a few days if you like walking. Other "top" places I liked were Freyincet Peninsula, Hobart, Strahan (top fishing!), and the very windy bit down the bottom who’s name escapes me. The hostels in Tassie are generally good. hwyl! geraint.

Response:

Question:

I head into the hospital for ACL reconstruction of my left knee this morning and am out of business for the next 5 to 6 months.

I had my left knee done last October, the right one done in December and was on the water again in April. Had the lakes been open, I might have been fishing even sooner – the Doc told me a kickboat would be excellent  therapy. In any case,  good luck with the surgery. Regards, Dennis Smith Loveland, CO Dennis Smith Loveland, CO

Response:

Well it is time to hang up my fly rod for the year.  I head into the hospital for ACL reconstruction of my left knee this morning and am out of business for the next 5 to 6 months. Mike

 Mike, Here’s wishing you a successful visit to the hospital, and get over it quickly. Good luck. Regards from Wales. — Bill

Response:

Well it is time to hang up my fly rod for the year.  I head into the hospital for ACL reconstruction of my left knee this morning and am out of business for the next 5 to 6 months. Mike

– Mike, Good luck with your surgery and we’ll be sure to save some fish fer ya… –Walt

Response:

Well it is time to hang up my fly rod for the year.  I head into the hospital for ACL reconstruction of my left knee this morning and am out of business for the next 5 to 6 months.  All of you flyfishing nuts will have to make sure and post your adventures to the newsgroup so that I can at least read about flyfishing. All was not lost for the year, I did get the opportunity to catch a 20 pound Rainbow Trout two weeks ago.  Definetly the highlight of my fishing life. Unfortunately, August was the wrong month to get the Gerrard’s in Kootenay Lake on a fly rod so will have to go back in April or May and attempt to get one. Have fun and enjoy the rest of your Summer! Mike

Mike: Sorry to hear about the knee problems. What kind of reconstruction are you having?  I had patellar graft reconstruction on my left knee 6 years ago and have been *extremely* happy with the result. You might even find that you could still get some fishing in this season.  By three months post-op, I was doing a lot of the things I wanted to, just being careful. Best of luck to you.  It is amazing what they can do to repair things these days. Bob

Response:

Well it is time to hang up my fly rod for the year.  I head into the hospital for ACL reconstruction of my left knee this morning and am out of business for the next 5 to 6 months.  All of you flyfishing nuts will have to make sure and post your adventures to the newsgroup so that I can at least read about flyfishing.   All was not lost for the year, I did get the opportunity to catch a 20 pound Rainbow Trout two weeks ago.  Definetly the highlight of my fishing life. Unfortunately, August was the wrong month to get the Gerrard’s in Kootenay Lake on a fly rod so will have to go back in April or May and attempt to get one. Have fun and enjoy the rest of your Summer! Mike

Response:

Question:

taxes, sex & flyfishing As is usual this time of year, today I had sex with  Uncle Sam….he screwed me good this time. At least it will be another year before I get reamed again. I didn’t even enjoy the post-coitus cigarette. What I did enjoy was going to a neat little back country stone-creek that is chock full of wild fish and I won’t divulge the name of it. Let’s just say it’s nowhere near North Carolina nor Key West. I’ve been meaning to fish this stretch for years and finally made it today. I parked at an easy access point and started working upstream about 4 pm and picked up a couple of small wild browns and rainbows on a size 16 ehc and than landed a nice ‘bow who ripped the elk hair off the fly.  In a lackadaisical mood, I left the wingless "caddis" tied on and fished it just as a full-shanked hackled fly. I couldn’t believe it as I continued to catch fish on this half-dressed fly. So far, I had been working upstream through a series of riffles and pockets and an occasional small pool. As I came around a bend, a big beautiful pool greeted me with a nice waterfall at the head. Ahhhh, the promised land. I finally changed flies to another full-bodied ehc. I surveyed my surroundings and determined that if I was going to get my fly to where that big moving shadow was, it was going to take one hell of a soft roll cast. Unbelievably,  I succeeded with my effort and was rewarded with a solid 14 inch wild rainbow that ripped back and forth through the pool. Usually, when that happens all the other fish inhabiting a pool go a hiding. Not this pool. I actually took three more smaller fish before they wised up to my presence. I shortly debated with myself  to call it a day versus climbing up and around the falls. I climbed. A little while later with no broken bones, I stepped back into the creek. A hatch of Hendricksons (kinda early in the season I thought, but it has been warm as of late) greeted me and I switched flies quickly to match them. I was continually rewarded with fish as I moved through a gorge section of the creek. Up ahead, I heard what sounded like thunder and as a I came out of the gorge I was taken aback in complete awe. A vertical waterfall at least 100 feet high emptied into this big deep pool. Spray from the fall was reaching me at least a 100 feet away. Pretty damn awesome. I changed flies to a size 12 march brown and approached the pool slowly and began casting the fly into the exits with no luck. I picked up a rainbow from the center and as I was bringing him in something big attacked him. Time to change flies I say…. I put on a big screaming yellow/black wooly-bugger and double-hauled it across the pool and started stripping it back in like there was no tomorrow. Cast and retrieve. I casted and retrieved countless times with no luck. I changed flies to a wally-melon (an aborted wooly-bugger to the inanely curious) and had a resounding strike on the first cast. Big fish, a real big fish. About five minutes later as I released the two-foot or so brownie, I lit another cigarette that was far more satisfying. –walt   4-14-98

Response:

— LET YOUR HOOK BE ALWAYS CAST; IN THE POOL WHERE YOU LEAST EXPECT IT, THERE WILL BE A FISH.                                           -OVID- – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – taxes, sex & flyfishing As is usual this time of year, today I had sex with  Uncle Sam….he screwed me good this time. At least it will be another year before I get reamed again. I didn’t even enjoy the post-coitus cigarette. What I did enjoy was going to a neat little back country stone-creek that is chock full of wild fish and I won’t divulge the name of it. Let’s just say it’s nowhere near North Carolina nor Key West. I’ve been meaning to fish this stretch for years and finally made it today. I parked at an easy access point and started working upstream about 4 pm and picked up a couple of small wild browns and rainbows on a size 16 ehc and than landed a nice ‘bow who ripped the elk hair off the fly.  In a lackadaisical mood, I left the wingless "caddis" tied on and fished it just as a full-shanked hackled fly. I couldn’t believe it as I continued to catch fish on this half-dressed fly. So far, I had been working upstream through a series of riffles and pockets and an occasional small pool. As I came around a bend, a big beautiful pool greeted me with a nice waterfall at the head. Ahhhh, the promised land. I finally changed flies to another full-bodied ehc. I surveyed my surroundings and determined that if I was going to get my fly to where that big moving shadow was, it was going to take one hell of a soft roll cast. Unbelievably,  I succeeded with my effort and was rewarded with a solid 14 inch wild rainbow that ripped back and forth through the pool. Usually, when that happens all the other fish inhabiting a pool go a hiding. Not this pool. I actually took three more smaller fish before they wised up to my presence. I shortly debated with myself  to call it a day versus climbing up and around the falls. I climbed. A little while later with no broken bones, I stepped back into the creek. A hatch of Hendricksons (kinda early in the season I thought, but it has been warm as of late) greeted me and I switched flies quickly to match them. I was continually rewarded with fish as I moved through a gorge section of the creek. Up ahead, I heard what sounded like thunder and as a I came out of the gorge I was taken aback in complete awe. A vertical waterfall at least 100 feet high emptied into this big deep pool. Spray from the fall was reaching me at least a 100 feet away. Pretty damn awesome. I changed flies to a size 12 march brown and approached the pool slowly and began casting the fly into the exits with no luck. I picked up a rainbow from the center and as I was bringing him in something big attacked him. Time to change flies I say…. I put on a big screaming yellow/black wooly-bugger and double-hauled it across the pool and started stripping it back in like there was no tomorrow. Cast and retrieve. I casted and retrieved countless times with no luck. I changed flies to a wally-melon (an aborted wooly-bugger to the inanely curious) and had a resounding strike on the first cast. Big fish, a real big fish. About five minutes later as I released the two-foot or so brownie, I lit another cigarette that was far more satisfying. –walt   4-14-98

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -taxes, sex & flyfishing As is usual this time of year, today I had sex with  Uncle Sam….he screwed me good this time. At least it will be another year before I get reamed again. I didn’t even enjoy the post-coitus cigarette. What I did enjoy was going to a neat little back country stone-creek that is chock full of wild fish and I won’t divulge the name of it. Let’s just say it’s nowhere near North Carolina nor Key West. I’ve been meaning to fish this stretch for years and finally made it today. I parked at an easy access point and started working upstream about 4 pm and picked up a couple of small wild browns and rainbows on a size 16 ehc and than landed a nice ‘bow who ripped the elk hair off the fly.  In a lackadaisical mood, I left the wingless "caddis" tied on and fished it just as a full-shanked hackled fly. I couldn’t believe it as I continued to catch fish on this half-dressed fly. So far, I had been working upstream through a series of riffles and pockets and an occasional small pool. As I came around a bend, a big beautiful pool greeted me with a nice waterfall at the head. Ahhhh, the promised land. I finally changed flies to another full-bodied ehc. I surveyed my surroundings and determined that if I was going to get my fly to where that big moving shadow was, it was going to take one hell of a soft roll cast. Unbelievably,  I succeeded with my effort and was rewarded with a solid 14 inch wild rainbow that ripped back and forth through the pool. Usually, when that happens all the other fish inhabiting a pool go a hiding. Not this pool. I actually took three more smaller fish before they wised up to my presence. I shortly debated with myself  to call it a day versus climbing up and around the falls. I climbed. A little while later with no broken bones, I stepped back into the creek. A hatch of Hendricksons (kinda early in the season I thought, but it has been warm as of late) greeted me and I switched flies quickly to match them. I was continually rewarded with fish as I moved through a gorge section of the creek. Up ahead, I heard what sounded like thunder and as a I came out of the gorge I was taken aback in complete awe. A vertical waterfall at least 100 feet high emptied into this big deep pool. Spray from the fall was reaching me at least a 100 feet away. Pretty damn awesome. I changed flies to a size 12 march brown and approached the pool slowly and began casting the fly into the exits with no luck. I picked up a rainbow from the center and as I was bringing him in something big attacked him. Time to change flies I say…. I put on a big screaming yellow/black wooly-bugger and double-hauled it across the pool and started stripping it back in like there was no tomorrow. Cast and retrieve. I casted and retrieved countless times with no luck. I changed flies to a wally-melon (an aborted wooly-bugger to the inanely curious) and had a resounding strike on the first cast. Big fish, a real big fish. About five minutes later as I released the two-foot or so brownie, I lit another cigarette that was far more satisfying. –walt   4-14-98

walt, wake up…… WAKE UP WALT!!

Response:

Question:

Hi all, 1. The cost of fishing is going up, up, up. A good Sage rod can cost upwards of $600 for a piece of inexpensive graphite.  A day with a guide can cost above $300.  A night at a fishing lodge can cost $600.  (Firewood kindling can cost $40!<g)

Of course, we’ve always justified these things by pointing out how expensive cocaine is in comparison.  (just kidding) I am living proof that you can get an enormous amount of enjoyment from fishing for very little money.

Response:

Hi all, I’ve received a couple of nasty emails over the past few days which tell me at least a few people do not understand what I am saying in my posts under the thread "Orvis Bashing."  (Believe me, I understand that most do not care!)  I am concerned others who read what I write, but do not send me email believe I am complaining about my salary.  I am not.  Like almost everyone, I wish it were more, and I believe it should be, but I have plenty of options if I am really unhappy about salary.  I’m sorry if what I write comes off as complaining at all, but I assure you, I am not talking about my salary.  Let me try and be as clear with my ideas as possible. 1. The cost of fishing is going up, up, up.   A good Sage rod can cost upwards of $600 for a piece of inexpensive graphite.  A day with a guide can cost above $300.  A night at a fishing lodge can cost $600.  (Firewood kindling can cost $40!<g) 2. We, the consumers, are as guilty as Orvis or anyone in this game.   We do not critically examine what the return is for the cost.  We pay it, just like we pay for overpriced Nike shoes.  We have been marketed. This I think, is a relatively recent phenomenon in fishing. 3. We do not do this with all things, like taxes or education.   We want to know what we will get for increased expenditures and most of us are suspicious of those who ask for more.  Therefore, it is not an innate part of the human condition to automatically overpay for things we value.  There is no a priori connection. 4. In fact, public education (and the local library, etc., whatever your local taxes go towards) in this country is generally an outrageous bargain.  We do not recognize this (in part) because there is no slick brochure, no beautiful movie or hilarious TV advertisement that tells us it is true.  There is no marketing.   5. If we really thought about this stuff, there is no way most of us could justify paying more for our own recreation than our children’s needs. Summary: The real beef with Orvis (or Sage, etc.) is that they are great marketers. This is not a crime, and we as consumers are partners in the activity. We must first realize this.  I made some comparisons of things I know about in order to demonstrate how much we pay for things which need not be expensive.  "Costs more" is not always better, nor is it necessary. Fishing for trout is about standing in a beautiful river in a beautiful setting and that is still free.  Resist the rest.   — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

Response:

Rick Fletcher schrieb in Nachricht Hi all, I’ve received a couple of nasty emails over the past few days which tell

Hi Rick, I read all the Orvis bashing posts etc with interest. Understood your posts as well, in fact I invariably do understand your posts. Think it has to do with the fact that they are well composed and spelled, and you seem to know what you are talking about usually.  I think many people dislike being faced with moral issues, especially when this has to do with their passions and hobbies.   Some of the comparisons are a little hard to take, because they are obviously too close to the mark. I am bound to disagree with one or two of your points however, many people have no problem at all justifying the cost of their recreation as opposed to their childrens, or anybody elses needs for that matter, this is part of the problem. Also, one of the reasons many people go fishing, is to forget their problems for a while, and do not wish to be reminded of them in this context, because it probably makes them feel guilty as hell, having spent all that money which they shouldnt really have done in the first place !.  A lot of people are firmly convinced that it is not possible to enjoy anything much at all unless it is done using the " best" tools etc available, this all too often translates into the "most expensive" and I have actually heard people discussing tackle etc. in shops and the like, when somebody has said "it must be good, look how expensive it is ! ". This phenomenon is not new either, read some of the older literature, and you will see what I mean, Skues plugging Leonard rods etc. Hardys being praised to the skies for some perfectly ordinary ( but expensive ! ) bit of totally useless equipment etc. etc.  The high power marketing of today was not apparent of course, but then the market was far more limited. Even otherwise sensible people fall for "hype" when it has to do with their hobby, and this is what makes the market so attractive, the very fact that people will spend very large amounts of money for "names" etc, without really being able to judge whether it is worth it or not, and without making any appreciable difference to their capabilities, although pride of ownership etc might increase their enjoyment a little. Sorry you got nasty e-mails, but not everybody does things like that. Lastly, and on a somewhat lighter note, can you  tell me where this free beautiful river in a beautiful setting is ? ( just kidding ! ) Tight lines ! Mike Connor

Response:

Hi all, I’ve received a couple of nasty emails over the past few days

        ok, rick, send me their addresses, and i’ll have o.c. and the bad boys from rowan county, n.c. chill the bastards.  anything goes in the defense of literacy! T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

        a. wayne harrison

Response:

Hi Rick, You are trying to link your desire of a high end rod with Orvis marketing. And then blaming Orvis for your need of an expensive rod.  Am I getting close?  Hard to resist though.   My wife and I have two children about to enter college.  I surely want them in the Dennisons, Harvards, and the Dukes of this world but, guess what, it costs money.  My daughter wants to go into elementary education.  Talk about a return on her (my) money!  My son wants to be a flyfishing, rock climbing bum.  But he also realizes that after the good times, he might have the need to provide for a retirement. Rather than grip about the ‘high end’ colleges, we simply pay the costs (without grabbing an appropriate newsgroup and soap box) or we council a college priced fairly for the educational degree we are after. Buy a rod on sale and make it do and don’t worry yourself over the Orvis marketing that none of us can do anything about.   Hope this makes sense. Mike Warren, OH/Cook Forest, PA – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, I’ve received a couple of nasty emails over the past few days which tell me at least a few people do not understand what I am saying in my posts under the thread "Orvis Bashing."  (Believe me, I understand that most do not care!)  I am concerned others who read what I write, but do not send me email believe I am complaining about my salary.  I am not.  Like almost everyone, I wish it were more, and I believe it should be, but I have plenty of options if I am really unhappy about salary.  I’m sorry if what I write comes off as complaining at all, but I assure you, I am not talking about my salary.  Let me try and be as clear with my ideas as possible. 1. The cost of fishing is going up, up, up. A good Sage rod can cost upwards of $600 for a piece of inexpensive graphite.  A day with a guide can cost above $300.  A night at a fishing

Response:

Well said Mike, I guess it really isn’t Orvis that I dislike, it is just their marketing, advertising and promotional methods. — Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail GO TO  http://www/ccnet.com/~emh FOR TRAVEL TIE BOX PLANS – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Rick Fletcher schrieb in Nachricht Hi all, I’ve received a couple of nasty emails over the past few days which tell Hi Rick, I read all the Orvis bashing posts etc with interest. Understood your posts as well, in fact I invariably do understand your posts. Think it has to do with the fact that they are well composed and spelled, and you seem to know what you are talking about usually.  I think many people dislike being faced with moral issues, especially when this has to do with their passions and hobbies.   Some of the comparisons are a little hard to take, because they are obviously too close to the mark. I am bound to disagree with one or two of your points however, many people have no problem at all justifying the cost of their recreation as opposed to their childrens, or anybody elses needs for that matter, this is part of the problem. Also, one of the reasons many people go fishing, is to forget their problems for a while, and do not wish to be reminded of them in this context, because it probably makes them feel guilty as hell, having spent all that money which they shouldnt really have done in the first place !.  A lot of people are firmly convinced that it is not possible to enjoy anything much at all unless it is done using the " best" tools etc available, this all too often translates into the "most expensive" and I have actually heard people discussing tackle etc. in shops and the like, when somebody has said "it must be good, look how expensive it is ! ". This phenomenon is not new either, read some of the older literature, and you will see what I mean, Skues plugging Leonard rods etc. Hardys being praised to the skies for some perfectly ordinary ( but expensive ! ) bit of totally useless equipment etc. etc.  The high power marketing of today was not apparent of course, but then the market was far more limited. Even otherwise sensible people fall for "hype" when it has to do with their hobby, and this is what makes the market so attractive, the very fact that people will spend very large amounts of money for "names" etc, without really being able to judge whether it is worth it or not, and without making any appreciable difference to their capabilities, although pride of ownership etc might increase their enjoyment a little. Sorry you got nasty e-mails, but not everybody does things like that. Lastly, and on a somewhat lighter note, can you  tell me where this free beautiful river in a beautiful setting is ? ( just kidding ! ) Tight lines ! Mike Connor

Response:

Rick – thanks for the well thought out post. Based on your perspective of money and costs and value(s), I am certain that we could fish together. I could not agree more. Ben

Response:

Hi all, I’ve received a couple of nasty emails over the past few days which tell me at least a few people do not understand what I am saying in my posts under the thread "Orvis Bashing."  

[snip] Been there, fun eh? 3. We do not do this with all things, like taxes or education.   We want to know what we will get for increased expenditures and most of us are suspicious of those who ask for more.  Therefore, it is not an innate part of the human condition to automatically overpay for things we value.  There is no a priori connection. 4. In fact, public education (and the local library, etc., whatever your local taxes go towards) in this country is generally an outrageous bargain.  We do not recognize this (in part) because there is no slick brochure, no beautiful movie or hilarious TV advertisement that tells us it is true.  There is no marketing.  

These complaints work both ways. Canada has a universal health care system paid for by tax revenue.  I was at a party last year when one party goer (with a six figure income in anyone’s currency) whined and complained about how much he had to pay in taxes to support this system.  I wondered how many tens or hundreds of thousands he was willing to commit to an early death, just so he could become even filthier rich.  Neither was he willing to consider that the alternatives would have ended up costing the country and him, even more.  Limited minds don’t necessarily come attached to limited pockets. 5. If we really thought about this stuff, there is no way most of us could justify paying more for our own recreation than our children’s needs.

Only the most selfish would. Summary: The real beef with Orvis (or Sage, etc.) is that they are great marketers. This is not a crime, and we as consumers are partners in the activity. We must first realize this.  I made some comparisons of things I know about in order to demonstrate how much we pay for things which need not be expensive.  "Costs more" is not always better, nor is it necessary. Fishing for trout is about standing in a beautiful river in a beautiful setting and that is still free.  Resist the rest.   — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

What’s that old saying? Caveat emptor?  True in flyfishing as in anything else. Peter

Response:

Oy, an intelligent post.  I had to, like, read it. As a public school teacher I can relate.  I often do extra duty and spend summer days in curriculum development or whatever to make enough money to indulge in my addiction.  Regular money covers other luxuries like food.  I think of this extra money not as dollars but as flyrods, which are very expensive even if you get the "good guy" price. Dave

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Question:

I just fished the PM on the 6th and 7th of this month. Lots bof fish in the river. Most were old but on Monday, Kelly Galloup, the guide if you know him said he saw fresh ones come up. There had been no rain for a long time but it did rain on Monday. After that I don’t know. If there was rain there has been rain in the last few days things should be good. The bottom line is it is worth the trip. Be prepared for lots of foul hook ups. My advice fish the deep holes and pray. Try different kinds of flies. They have seen lots of cadis emergers and stone flies. Try bright wooly buggers, black and yellow. Good luck. David

Response:

Path: magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!news-pe er.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.ero ls.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!pravda.aa.msen.com!not- for-mail Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly Organization: Msen, Inc. — Ann Arbor, MI. Lines: 11 NNTP-Posting-Host: conch.aa.msen.com X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 950824BETA PL0]

Yeah, we just got back two weeks ago many of the fish were redding. johnson’s will lead you to them but you’ll pay for it. We brought our own canoe and floated every day from m-37 to green cottage and caught more fish than any of the guides. Hope this helps. An aside, the guides were not to pleasant. Brad – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Anyone know of the stream status in Northern Michigan? Johnson Lodge on the Pere Marquette says there are ’some’ fish being caught by them. I just found out that I can get out of Detroit this weeekend,  October 12, and am looking to wet a line somewhere. Thanks in advance  and Tight Lines Henry

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Anyone know of the stream status in Northern Michigan? Johnson Lodge on the Pere Marquette says there are ’some’ fish being caught by them. I just found out that I can get out of Detroit this weeekend,  October 12, and am looking to wet a line somewhere. Thanks in advance  and Tight Lines Henry

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Question:

Just returned from two days fishing.  A friend and I had planned to hit Mossy Creek and the Jackson River tailwater.  We stopped in at Murray’s fly shop in Edinburg…Harry said Mossy Creek only produced a single trout on a recent outing there.  We asked him about the Jackson, and he said "If I live a thousand years I’d be happy if I never fished the Jackson River again." Harry suggested we go after smallmouth on the North Fork of the Shenandoah, an alternative we eagerly accepted.  We left Murray’s shop (each $75 poorer!) and headed for the North Fork, north of Edinburg, where we found the water crystal-clear and at moderate levels. But we fished it hard for two hours and came up empty handed…not even a trace of fish anywhere. So we decided to head northwest to the North Branch of the Potomac and the Savage Rivers.  When we arrived, we found the water in both rivers high and off-color. We tried camping at the USAC Jennings-Randolph Lake campground, but found the front gate locked at only 9:30pm!  Disgruntled, we drove down to the North Branch whitewater put-in and camped there, in spite of the "No Camping" signs everywhere.  (We had no problems…but this was also Thursday night.)  (Lesson: get to the USAC camground early.) The next morning we were up at 6 and on the water by 7.  We fished the North Branch for about an hour right at the put-in area (above the C&R section) and only caught a single 10" rainbow on a Montana nymph. The water wasn’t muddy…but it wasn’t clear, either. Somewhere in between.  Flow must have been in the 400-600cfs range. Then we drove/hiked down to the C&R section and fished hard for a couple of hours around the concrete railroad abutment on the right bank.  No fish…not a trace of them anywhere.  The water was too high to wade to the left side (though I tried several times and almost got washed away!) We left the North Branch, and drove to the first brisdge on the Savage and fished it for an hour or so.  Also nothing.   Finally, we decided to head for the small streams of Frederick County around Thurmont, where we ended up having an okay few hours of fishing on Owens Creek. (Four 10-11" browns caught.)  Owens was low and clear, and the browns jumped on my size 12 stimulator like gangbusters. All in all, it was fun rambling around for two days…but the fishing was lousy.  I’m wondering now if we would have had better luck at Mossy Creek and the Jackson River tailwater.  Any thoughts? Scott Wilkinson Bethesda, MD

Response:

I don’t quite understand your friend’s reluctance to fish the Jackson River in Virginia.  You did mention the tail- waters and perhaps that is his problem.  Most of the tail waters below Carthright Dam is private property.  That which is public waters is heavily fished.  However, there are many stretches of the Jackson that are beautiful and productive *but* are difficult to reach — requiring a reasonable and not too difficult hike to get there.  Many times the problem is the reluctance of someone to hike in to the better areas. The Jackson is a good fishery.   Mossy Creek is on private land requiring fishing from the shore (no wading).  It is a small spring creek requiring patience familiarity, and some luck.  Given that it can be quite rewarding — browns at 20 inches. Fishing is not all about catching fish, at least for me.  It is about a learning experience, wonderful scenery, and a great *overall* experience.  With patience, fishing the Jackson (in the right place) and Mossy Creek can be very rewarding.

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Question:

This may be old info, and I can’t vouch for the truth in it, but I found this to be funny. An article I read recently said that PETA (People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals) had not copyrighted "PETA" acronym. By not doing so, it was left open to be used by any other group that might choose to copyright it.      (Snip)    How about ‘People Enraged at the Tactics of Assholes’?

Dee Crabtree

Response:

Dear All; PETA humor is an oxymoron.  PETA people have no sense of humor. Popping Extra Tumms Antacids Perpetually Engendered to Thoughtless Activities Profanity, Epithets and Terrorist Activities Geez, I’m out!  (That first one is pretty far out there!  It’s funny if you keep reading it or saying it over to yourself.  Handgrenade humour.) Sincerely JB

Response:

This may be old info, and I can’t vouch for the truth in it, but I found this to be funny. An article I read recently said that PETA (People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals) had not copyrighted "PETA" acronym. By not doing so, it was left open to be used by any other group that might choose to copyright it.      (Snip)    How about ‘People Enraged at the Tactics of Assholes’?

check out www.peta.org (people eating tasty animals) I think.. -Dan-

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Please join my PETA group today !!! "Persons Enjoying Trout Almondine " TimW

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Iwould like to start a local chapter of PETA; People Extremely Tired of Assholes Dale

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Iwould like to start a local chapter of PETA; People Extremely Tired of Assholes Dale

And who would make up the charter membership, Dan ??? Dee Crabtree

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Quoting fuscor6285 from a message in rec.outdoors.fishing.fly    < An article I read recently said that PETA (People for the Ethical    < Treatment of Animals) had not copyrighted "PETA" acronym. By not    < doing so, it was left open to be used by any other group that might    < choose to copyright it.    <    <     (Snip)    <     How about ‘People Enraged at the Tactics of Assholes’? You can check out the web page of that other group "People Eating Tasty Animals" at http://www.peta.org/ Jim Carlisle

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And someone did, creating a PETA group (People Eating Tasty Animals). Supposedly the old peta is trying to force the new peta to relinquish the acronym. Whether true or not, it is humorous, and sums up my attitude towards PETA. It is true and there is a web page dedicated to it’s proliferation. I just can’t remember what it is though!

Try http://www.peta.org Dennis – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Gary McMeekin

Response:

This may be old info, and I can’t vouch for the truth in it, but I found this to be funny. An article I read recently said that PETA (People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals) had not copyrighted "PETA" acronym. By not doing so, it was left open to be used by any other group that might choose to copyright it.      (Snip)    How about ‘People Enraged at the Tactics of Assholes’?

i can’t see the past posts so i may be repeating but there is a home page already using the peta name …people eating tasty animals…try http://www.peta.org or something like that and you will see why peta wishes they had regestered their name…  ;) jeff

Response:

This may be old info, and I can’t vouch for the truth in it, but I found this to be funny. An article I read recently said that PETA (People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals) had not copyrighted "PETA" acronym. By not doing so, it was left open to be used by any other group that might choose to copyright it.   And someone did, creating a PETA group (People Eating Tasty Animals). Supposedly the old peta is trying to force the new peta to relinquish the acronym. Whether true or not, it is humorous, and sums up my attitude towards PETA.

Response:

And someone did, creating a PETA group (People Eating Tasty Animals). Supposedly the old peta is trying to force the new peta to relinquish the acronym. Whether true or not, it is humorous, and sums up my attitude towards PETA.

It is true and there is a web page dedicated to it’s proliferation. I just can’t remember what it is though! Gary McMeekin

Response:

This may be old info, and I can’t vouch for the truth in it, but I found this to be funny. An article I read recently said that PETA (People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals) had not copyrighted "PETA" acronym. By not doing so, it was left open to be used by any other group that might choose to copyright it.  

        (Snip)         How about ‘People Enraged at the Tactics of Assholes’?

Response:

Question:

It’s pretty sad when the first post to a new group, fly tying, is SPAM. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The FISHING LOG is a Powerful Software Program for Windows  It tracks every aspect of your fishing trips/sessions in great detail. It is colorful, extremely powerful and very user friendly. Keeps track of just about anything you can think of in Fresh Water or Salt. It is a large program of research quality but you can just keep up the sections YOU wish. Export data to other programs for analysis, printing  and charting. The best part is that if you download it yourself it is FREE. Mind that the last characters in the WWW address are all UPPERCASE!                 Bob Sheedy                Master Angler http://www.mbnet.mb.ca/~sheedyr/FISHING.HTM

Response:

The FISHING LOG is a Powerful Software Program for Windows  It tracks every aspect of your fishing trips/sessions in great detail. It is colorful, extremely powerful and very user friendly. Keeps track of just about anything you can think of in Fresh Water or Salt. It is a large program of research quality but you can just keep up the sections YOU wish. Export data to other programs for analysis, printing  and charting. The best part is that if you download it yourself it is FREE. Mind that the last characters in the WWW address are all UPPERCASE!                  Bob Sheedy                 Master Angler http://www.mbnet.mb.ca/~sheedyr/FISHING.HTM

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