Question:

… my current batch of hiking pals are dropping fast or becomin a mite surly.

Well, not surly so much…. Wolfgang who misses ya sorely    :)

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – get in shape zimbo.  i’ve still got a few places i’d like to prospect for ol’ mr. trout in graham and swain co… my current batch of hiking pals are dropping fast or becomin a mite surly. It’s a deal, Jeffie. I just bought me a Garmin eTrex Vista so’s I’ll be able to remember how to get back to all these beauty-filled streams Waldo’s taken me to over the last year. As for getting in shape, well I’m still a young-un and not old enough to know that fishing isn’t supposed to be a workout. You show me the trail and I’ll stay with ya. –Steve

well alrighty then… bring the digital camera too.   all too soon, as you’ll discover, with increasing age the mental pictures don’t last as long as they once did… let me know when you’d like to go… jeff

Response:

…it was the best of times… looking forward to the next of times.  it hurts so good, gotta do it again soon… there’s another nc mountain paradise to visit.  it’s a short boat ride and a bit of a walk… but it’s sure to fill up your soul for a while. jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – … my current batch of hiking pals are dropping fast or becomin a mite surly. Well, not surly so much…. Wolfgang who misses ya sorely    :)

Response:

…none of us knew when you were coming in or where you were staying. sorry we missed you. i was the last one out this afternoon. hope the rain let up for you…

How much rain did you get? Please lie and tell me it was the singular greatest fishing event of your entire life. That would sure help me sleep better at night. –Steve

Response:

I lived in West Virginia where I taught school for one school year.

Did you ever happen to catch "The Dancin’ Outlaw" on PBS? Seriously surreal piece documenting the life and strange times of one Jesco White, the self-proclaimed "Last of the True Mountain Dancers." Guaranteed to make you laugh exactly at the same time you’re cringing (and if you like that feeling, check out the short fiction of George Saunders). You can get a small taste of Jesco at http://www.pelsor.com/jesco_white.htm, though a Google search will give you plenty of options to sample. – Sid not even sure you miss WV, but thought a kick was in the offing

Response:

How much rain did you get? Please lie and tell me it was the singular greatest fishing event of your entire life. That would sure help me sleep better at night. –Steve

…well, this one is for you zimbo… the weather was great (til yesterday – my birthday, of course) and the fishin was incredible – the catchin, well… i haven’t been doin this as long as most around here, but if catching brookies and rainbows in nearly every pool promotes your sleep, i’ll wake you next week. …wolfgang has captured the essence of the week in his post, sorta.  he missed the boat trip across fontana lake to wayno’s "memento", but i made sure his hiking socks made it. i think they gave me a blister… get in shape zimbo.  i’ve still got a few places i’d like to prospect for ol’ mr. trout in graham and swain co… my current batch of hiking pals are dropping fast or becomin a mite surly. jeff

Response:

get in shape zimbo.  i’ve still got a few places i’d like to prospect for ol’ mr. trout in graham and swain co… my current batch of hiking pals are dropping fast or becomin a mite surly.

It’s a deal, Jeffie. I just bought me a Garmin eTrex Vista so’s I’ll be able to remember how to get back to all these beauty-filled streams Waldo’s taken me to over the last year. As for getting in shape, well I’m still a young-un and not old enough to know that fishing isn’t supposed to be a workout. You show me the trail and I’ll stay with ya. –Steve

Response:

Is that you George? Is that you Skunked?

Nice going Warren! Opie read this just before we went fishing on yet another stream no one would tell me the name of and was so depressed he jumped off the top of a 400 foot waterfall.  Nice pool at the bottom (I caught a beautiful 14 inch brown out of it a bit later) but he missed it by about 6 feet.  I am trying to console his mother while enjoying not only my own, but also Opie’s portion of the spaghetti she made for us. Wolfgang trying to save just a little room for dessert

Response:

Trust me Opus.  What I don’t know about fly fishing is infinitely greater then what I know,

HAH! A fig for those who say you are incapable of telling the truth! and no, that wasn’t me Opus.  

And no, Georgie, it ain’t ME Opus either. I’m just a Ghost of Fly Fishing Past.   My name hangs on the winds of time.  

Your name has broken the wind of time. You know me, you just don’t understand the whispered words.

You know me.  You just cain’t figgur it out (the words are in English, unless I’m badly mistaken). Not Pete

Response:

  Nice going Warren! Opie read this just before we went fishing on yet another stream no one would tell me the name of and was so depressed he jumped off the top of a 400 foot waterfall.  Nice pool at the bottom (I caught a beautiful 14 inch brown out of it a bit later) but he missed it by about 6 feet.  I am trying to console his mother while enjoying not only my own, but also Opie’s portion of the spaghetti she made for us. Wolfgang trying to save just a little room for dessert

Sounds like you are making due there Wolfie <g  Tell Opie he can catch fish tomorrow because I will say a small prayer to Norm, the god of fishing and luck, tonight asking him to watch over Opie. — Warren Findley www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt

Response:

Who asked you anything guy? And this is Pete.

  george.vcf

< 1K Download

Response:

 I lived in West Virginia where I taught school for one school year. Fall was immensely beautiful, but the rest of my experience there left much to be desired. Willi

        god made west virginia long before he came up with north carolina.  obviously, practice makes perfect. your friend in the old north state wayno

Response:

…none of us knew when you were coming in or where you were staying. sorry we missed you. i was the last one out this afternoon. hope the rain let up for you… jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –    don’t know where them boys are at exactly, but I’ve got a Tracker comin up from Georgia and goin to meet me at Popeye’s Restaraunt in Robbinsville and we’re goin to find them…. Probably won’t get there until Fri or Sat nite…….they me have all left by then….Fri Sat and Sun I’ll be at http://www.atcampground.com/index.html john

Response:

   don’t know where them boys are at exactly, but I’ve got a Tracker comin up from Georgia and goin to meet me at Popeye’s Restaraunt in Robbinsville and we’re goin to find them…. Probably won’t get there until Fri or Sat nite…….they me have all left by then….Fri Sat and Sun I’ll be at http://www.atcampground.com/index.html john

Response:

  don’t know where them boys are at exactly, but I’ve got a Tracker comin up from Georgia and goin to meet me at Popeye’s Restaraunt in Robbinsville and we’re goin to find them…. Probably won’t get there until Fri or Sat nite…….they me have all left by then….Fri Sat and Sun I’ll be at http://www.atcampground.com/index.html

I just got back from there, not sure how many are staying into the weekend. Just head up towards the Snowbird back country area and you should find Opie and Wolfgang’s tent city encampment. Back down towards the paved road is IJ and Big Dales cabin (just across the bridge from the road and up to the left, 2nd or 3rd cabin). Before you get to the back country turnoff you will see a bed and breakfast sign on the left. Turn in there and keep left and you will find Jeff, Walt and Tom’s cabin. Wayno is in the luxurious San Ran Motel in Robbinsville. The weather was great the two days I was there, and fish were being caught (some wild, some native, some just passing through<g). — Charlie…

Response:

Opie and Wolfgang have broken camp and just arrived back in Lenoir.  We will be fishing’s Upper Creek in the morn.  Tom has left, wayno and Walt will leave in the morn, but I think IJ, Big D, and Jeff will be stayin’ thru Sat. I won’t bore anyone with a piss poor TR, as I was the only one there that didn’t catch a fish! Op

  don’t know where them boys are at exactly, but I’ve got a Tracker comin up from Georgia and goin to meet me at Popeye’s Restaraunt in Robbinsville and we’re goin to find them…. Probably won’t get there until Fri or Sat nite…….they me have all left by then….Fri Sat and Sun I’ll be at

http://www.atcampground.com/index.html – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just got back from there, not sure how many are staying into the weekend. Just head up towards the Snowbird back country area and you should find Opie and Wolfgang’s tent city encampment. Back down towards the paved road is IJ and Big Dales cabin (just across the bridge from the road and up to the left, 2nd or 3rd cabin). Before you get to the back country turnoff you will see a bed and breakfast sign on the left. Turn in there and keep left and you will find Jeff, Walt and Tom’s cabin. Wayno is in the luxurious San Ran Motel in Robbinsville. The weather was great the two days I was there, and fish were being caught (some wild, some native, some just passing through<g). — Charlie…

Response:

I won’t bore anyone with a piss poor TR, as I was the only one there that didn’t catch a fish!

It’s okay Opie!  I am here for you!  It seems that another difference between us is that my mentors know how to fish and help me catch fish! Perhaps you can borrow one of mine like Willi, Brian Nelson, RW,  etc. Or even George might be able to teach you something! <bseg — Warren Findley www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt

Response:

Is that you George? Op

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I won’t bore anyone with a piss poor TR, as I was the only one there that didn’t catch a fish! It’s okay Opie!  I am here for you!  It seems that another difference between us is that my mentors know how to fish and help me catch fish! Perhaps you can borrow one of mine like Willi, Brian Nelson, RW,  etc. Or even George might be able to teach you something! <bseg — Warren Findley www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt

Response:

Well, looks like I’ll have some rain…..what were you fishin with? john

Response:

Well, looks like I’ll have some rain…..what were you fishin with?

Mostly yellow humpies and parachute adams were what I used, not real sure about the others. Yellow typically works well there. My fall back fly up there is an orange stimulator but I didn’t try one this trip. — Charlie…

Response:

Is that you George?

Is that you Skunked?

Response:

Well, looks like I’ll have some rain…..what were you fishin with?

        a chemist from kansas by way of hotlanta, mostly.  tent shaped body and white hackle.  :)         naw, really, stimulators in both orange and royal style met with success on the beautiful little wild rainbows over on hazel. wolfgang, jeffie, and waldo slayed em (literally) on my former secret honey hole.         wayno         and if you don’t think carolina is just as pretty as colorado, come drive the cherohala skyway in mid october.

Response:

        wayno         and if you don’t think carolina is just as pretty as colorado, come drive the cherohala skyway in mid october.

People in Colorado drive to the mountains to see the changing Aspen. The scene is nice but it is a shadow of fall’s spendor back east. I lived in West Virginia where I taught school for one school year. Fall was immensely beautiful, but the rest of my experience there left much to be desired. Willi

Response:

   a chemist from kansas by way of hotlanta, mostly.  tent shaped body and white hackle.  :)

Certainly you meant to type "chiseled" and accidently typed "tent shaped". <g — Charlie…

Response:

Trust me Opus.  What I don’t know about fly fishing is infinitely greater then what I know, and no, that wasn’t me Opus.  I’m just a Ghost of Fly Fishing Past.  My name hangs on the winds of time.  You know me, you just don’t understand the whispered words. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is that you George? Op I won’t bore anyone with a piss poor TR, as I was the only one there that didn’t catch a fish! It’s okay Opie!  I am here for you!  It seems that another difference between us is that my mentors know how to fish and help me catch fish! Perhaps you can borrow one of mine like Willi, Brian Nelson, RW,  etc. Or even George might be able to teach you something! <bseg — Warren Findley www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt

  george.vcf

< 1K Download

Response:

Question:

Paul Goodwin writes: I’ld have to say that Waynes post get’s my vote for the best ever clave report. That’s for sure!  A wonderful wordsmith is our wayno.  "Piss running down a handicap ramp" — not exactly a sentence you get to use very often.  Well done, counselor.

Must have been long enough that it got lost somewhere, I never saw it on bellsouth.net. I’ll just have to take everyone’s word for it that it had internal rhythm. <g — Charlie…

Response:

Charlie Choc: Must have been long enough that it got lost somewhere, I never saw it on bellsouth.net. I’ll just have to take everyone’s word for it that it had internal rhythm. <g — Charlie…

I didn’t get it on aol, and it wasn’t posted on Newsone.net.  I had to go to deja.com to get a copy of it.  And yes, it *is* long, but very funny with wonderful "internal rythm".  Got some external stuff too. Dave

Response:

I didn’t get it on aol, and it wasn’t posted on Newsone.net.  I had to go to deja.com to get a copy of it.  And yes, it *is* long, but very funny with wonderful "internal rythm".  Got some external stuff too.

It is good, Tom Brown email’d me a copy (thanks Tom, and Wayno too<g). — Charlie…

Response:

<snipped for bandwidth conservation ONLY) Excellent dissertation Mr. Harrison!!! — All fishermen are liars ‘cept you n me, and I’m starting to have doubts about you! www.fishticker.com

Response:

i had to repeat damn near everything i said, even though i was talkin loud enough to be heard next door.

That’s cause New Englanders all talk funny. They gotta put the cah in the gahrage and then go get some chowdah. happily i had a little time to read some exciting new law review articles,

Ain’t any such thing. i am certain that the promising new business relationships i nurtured during my time in maine will help reward your efforts.

Little wayno’s Outfitters (We Never Close) is moving north? Gonna surround yourself with yankees? In a land where you can’t get grits nohow, not even the instant kind at the Safeway? "Goddamn, well I declare! Have you seen the like?Their walls are  built from  cannonballs; their motto is ‘don’t tread on me’" -Uncle Jerry

Response:

I’ld have to say that Waynes post get’s my vote for the best ever clave report.

ditto for me, "casting pearls amongst the swine" as it were. Peter

Response:

Paul Goodwin writes: I’ld have to say that Waynes post get’s my vote for the best ever clave report.

That’s for sure!  A wonderful wordsmith is our wayno.  "Piss running down a handicap ramp" — not exactly a sentence you get to use very often.  Well done, counselor. But, the "biggest brookie of my life" was a mere 15 inches.  I am afraid he’d shit his drawers if he got into one of the 22+ inchers!   <g Dave LaCourse, Bottom Dweller, home resting from the terrible ordeal of leading a bunch of reprobates on my home waters, but ready to go back

Response:

I’ld have to say that Waynes post get’s my vote for the best ever clave report.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – to:  eleni t. harrison 5216 michaux rd greensboro, nc 27410 tuesday, sept [snip] ah beeyuh budeeyuh budeeyuh;  that’s all, folks… your friend in the old north state wayno

Response:

You forgot a couple:        to:  irs, audit division        regional office        raleigh, n.c. to whom it may concern: as an attorney in good standing with n.c. bar, i resent your implication that i would in any way misuse the u.s. tax code, including the generous deductions allowed by the rules governing business entertainment deductions.  you have, i feel, improperly disallowed a large number of deductions, even medical expense deductions, as a result of a trip taken for the purposes of interviewing prospective clients.  let me assure you that every name on the attached list (styled "state’s exhibit a") is now, or shortly will be, in need of professional help.   as to the expenses, "misc:," again, let me assure you that all were legitimate.  for example, one expense, "$250.00 – Translator and translation expenses," was an absolute necessity, but unfortunately, those ill-spoken yankees don’t even understand money, and would only accept payment in the form of alcoholic beverages, hence, the receipt from "Dickey’s Crab House and Package Store." i can further assure you that deduction labeled "$862.50 – dr. hooter’s" is indeed a legitimate medical expense, as several in the party were dire need of attention at the close of the trip.  while i understand the reluctance to accept a receipt on a cocktail napkin, i cannot control the use of business forms by the medical profession. in closing, please free to contact me at any time should you need further supporting documentation.  further, i will be happy to personally recreate the entire trip, including reassembling the persons relevant, should you desire to send an investigator to personally the instant facts of the case at bar. i remain, a. wayne harrison             to:  all managing partners of             harrison, north, cooke and landreth, attorneys at law             221 commerce st             greensboro, nc 27401 gentlemen: "kinder, gentler irs", my ass!  get me the hell outta here! waiting, a. wayne harrison

Response:

        to:  eleni t. harrison         5216 michaux rd         greensboro, nc 27410         tuesday, sept         well, dovins, me and the kid from raleigh (by way of utah) made it to portland safe and sound.  flying in from the ocean side, the harbor looked just like a giant goldfish pond, ringed with rocks, and dotted with tiny sails.  ol louie showed up with a handmade sign and groucho glasses.  he didn’t need a fake nose.         we drove across the state at a crisp rate, with the audi humming, feeling taut and confident as this wonderful old bastard carried us ever deeper into the woods of maine, with brittle, entertaining chatter flowing from all inside, to dissapate among the spruce by the roadside along with the gasses from the twin pipes.  the houses seemed to line the roads like spectators at a race, no more than one or two lines deep, pressed close upon us by the dark green trees and rising hills.  the buildings themselves were surprisingly delicate, and reminded me of the farmhouses of the old money families from the rowan county hinterlands.  i would have thought the weight of north country winters would have made for sterner, rougher homes.          we stopped in a little burg called norway to buy some emergency waders.  the wooden floors creaked as we entered, and the accents of the owner and the occupants might as well have come from argentina; they were strangers to my unaccustomed ear.  but the smiles weren’t forced, and i left with the memories of nearly fifty years ago, when i walked out of the same kind of place with my first fly rod in my hand, with hopes of fish captured pulling me toward the car.         we arrived at lake richardson with the audi clicking as she cooled from the workout, and motored steadily across a gorgeous body of water, gin clear from edge to center, and held together by the lovely, sloping hills that pass for mountains way up here.  we could see the camp in the distance, little brown cabins hunkered down together, pressed closely by the bright red barn of the damkeeper on one end and a bright white stand of birches on the other.  we could see the figures awaiting our arrival at the dock, and i soon could make out the familiar figure of indian joe mcintosh and two females. one of them, short and bright eyed, welcomed us with fearless enthusiasm and hugs that shattered any suggestion that we could be strangers.  the second figure was taller; thin, almost delicate, with a smile just barely broader than the mona lisa.  her name, it turned out, was joanne lacourse; the wife of the luckiest sonofabitch in new england.  her companion was dene mcintosh, who could turn a wake into the best damn party you ever were fortunate enough to attend.         getting settled was as easy as finding your way back to a place you have been before, with just enough time since your last visit to make the homecoming a surprise.  peetah charles showed up, and jeff conelly, with his friend benet (pronounced "benay").  and thank god, there was ol jeffy miller, pride of the greenville nc bar, and a man who loves his whiskey almost as much as his time on the water.         the next morning i was awakened by the dulcet tones of louie’s voice, gently chiding me to come to breakfast.  after a bracing shower, i joined our little band for a terrific breakfast, served by a charming, hard working young lady named kessie.  our crowd and a pair of older marrieds were the only guests at the lodge, and meals were both delicious and quiet.  they served a dessert called "lemon pudding" that is sure to show up on the next federal controlled substances list, ranked just after crack cocaine in degree of danger.         peetah and i walked about twenty minutes downstream to a place where the river flows into a second lake, much smaller than the one on which the main camp lies, called by the locals "pond in the river", or simply "pondy".  the river mouth was split by an island, which was reached by boat, capt. lacourse at the oars, and we fished there most of the morning.  i caught the largest brook trout of my life on a streamer, thrashing the water with a sinking line and stripping in as if i was churning butter.  the place itself was right out of a chet reneson water color; the first loon i’ve ever seen was fishing in the pond.  it was a much larger bird than i had expected, but its call was wonderously haunting, just as i had hoped.         during the evening’s socializing i found that dene and joanne had been exploring the lake in kayaks available at the camp.  they were excited about the experience, and when i expressed some interest in sharing their next excursion, the roff navy was born.  in the morning after breakfast we pointed the bows of our seaworthy crafts toward the rising sun and double paddled into legend.  the surface of the lake was flat and slick as cellophane, and you could look clear through the water at every depth.  the peace and beauty of the trip was punctuated with a few narrow escapes as joanne, our human torpedo, became directionally challenged from time to time.  admiral mcintosh led our initial assault on a starkly beautiful rock island in the center of the bay, and concluded our invasion successfully by, um, christening its granite surface.  you would get along wonderfully with these two terrific women, and i can’t wait for the day that you all get together.         the rest of the trip has been fascinating, highlighted by the arrival of the three daves and salmon fly, yankees but decent fellers every one.  we had a helluva bonfire at lakeside, but i was tired and missed the last of the revelry.  you know how i have been trying to reduce my alchohol consumption, and i take your advice in the matter to heart, of course.         one more thing:  if lakewood camps were located fifty miles south of asheville, it would be the prettiest place in the country; but even though it’s north of the mason dixon, it’s no worse than second place.  and david lacourse and his incredible wife made the entire experience unforgettable.  their energy and concern for the needs of all of us was a wonder.         as i write this, zimbo and i are seated in the cincinnati airport, waiting for the last section of the long flight that will bring me back to you and the kiddles.  give them a hug from the old man, and don’t wait up for me.         love         awh         to:  james mcdonald roberts         132 court street         greenville nc 2499         james:  what a goddam trip.  i met up with that kid i told you about that makes the great little bamboo rods so early on tuesday am that i felt like a freaking rooster.  the guy’s name is zimmerman, but i call him zimbo.  helluva good kid, and so damn excited about this chance to catch something bigger than a goldfish that he reminded me of keith sedberry the night sweet virginia overman promised him a little leg behind the sigma chi house, back in ‘68.         we got to maine about midday after an obviously meaningless trip to cincinnati.  damn airlines must be run by yankee republicans. anyway, ol louie laplac damn near burnt that silver audi to a crisp on those little two laners across the southern tip of maine.  i didn’t know if zimbo was gonna shit or throwup, but you could have gotten even money on both.  we had to stop at some godforsaken little sporting goods store in podunk maine where everybody was mumblin about "neah" and "fah" and kept ending every sentence with "a-yuh" or some such yankee shit.  i had to repeat damn near everything i said, even though i was talkin loud enough to be heard next door.         well, we drive i mean *deep* into the evergreens and long, sloping hills, with birches everywhere, great looking country, no doubt.  we cross this beautiful lake, and arrive at our destination, a group of little cabins all bunched together, leaning up against each other at differerent angles, like if you open the bathroom door and don’t block it with a rock the damn thing slams shut before you can get inside.  anyway, we get there, and beside ol injun joe and peetah, who you have met before, there are these two great lookin chicks who turn out to be married to ij and louie.  that’s the good news.  the bad news is they are hopelessly in love with the two old fools, and have about as much use for me as tits on a boar hog.  oh, well, they were still tons of fun, and good sports to boot.         ol jeffy was there, and met me at the dock with a fresh see-through.  i swear that boy is as good as pitt county has to give. and fishes his *ass* off, i mean.         the fishing is the damndest thing you have ever seen.  big, i mean *big* f***in trout and salmon, but you got to fish with these tiny damn flies just like you read about in fly fisherman magazine, and if you catch one of the bastards they laugh and turn inexorably toward the fast current, and bingo—tie on another teeny weeny.  and when i mean fast current, i am *not* kidding you.  damn place makes hazel creek look like piss runnin down a handicap ramp.  you wade that water, you die.  the deal is you fish in about a thirty yard semi-circle, pounding that water relentlessly, changing flies if you don’t hook up.  i swear to god peetah charles must have tossed the entire f***ing inventory of a fair sized orvis shop in the water at this crowd of salmon that fed all day on bugs so tiny you couldn’t see em.  he caught, in his inimitable terminology, "the odd fish", and he is damn good.  but, it is a challenge, and the feeling you get when one of those freight trains hooks you up and heads for the black runs can’t be matched in the appalachians.  and you should have seen the newbie from utah.  if he wasn’t fishin, he was talkin about fishin. he did really well.  quick learner, and fun travel with, even though it’s safe to say that you and he have …different tastes….which reminds me:  jesus, did i get smashed every night.  if it weren’t for the fact that the power goes off all over camp automatically at 11:30 every night, my liver would have called 911.         and, hell man, the place

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Response:

Question:

  G.Gehrke Bamboo Fly Rod Builders October 14 – 06:40 am   Fly Tying October 12 – 05:12 pm   Tackle September 29 – 03:38 pm   Freshwater Fly Fishing September 29 – 03:39 pm   Saltwater Fly Fishing October 3 – 04:18 pm   Catch & Release October 1 – 02:56 am http://www.gink.com/discus Active Bulletin Board 24 Hours a day: Mr. G.

Response:

[BS mercifully snipped] http://www.gink.com/discus Active Bulletin Board 24 Hours a day: Mr. G.

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Response:

[The rantings of a pompous old windbag snipped] http://www.gink.com/discus Active Bulletin Board 24 Hours a day: Mr. G.

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Question:

Has anyone used Rain-X as floatant? How does it work? Shinji

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I bet it would work great at first.  But if you’ll read the label, it has some really strong petroleum distillates.  I woud think it would damge fly line and leave a horrendous taste on flies. As for myself, a rueben sandwich with hot peppers and a budweiser pretty much makes me unsinkable. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anyone used Rain-X as floatant? How does it work? Shinji

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it has some really strong petroleum distillates.  I woud think it would

damge flyline and leave a horrendous taste on flies. It’s been more than 50 years since my last chemistry class, but aren’t "distillates" volatile?  Wouldn’t they evaporate? vince norris

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Rain-X ought to work.  It’s basically wax in some solvents (distillates) and when they evaporate, it leaves an easy to polish windshield. Not knowing what the distillates are, it is unclear what effect they might have on the fly head cement, artificial and natural colors, waxed thread, etc. "Some mornings I wonder if it was worth it to gnaw through the leather straps."  – E. Philips

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Rain-X ought to work.  It’s basically wax in some solvents (distillates) and when they evaporate, it leaves an easy to polish windshield.

        my god, george gherke, are you suffering from laryngitits, or under arrest in a foreign land, or asleep, or have you simply expired?         a. wayne harrison

Response:

Rain-X ought to work.  It’s basically wax in some solvents (distillates) and when they evaporate, it leaves an easy to polish windshield.         my god, george gherke, are you suffering from laryngitits, or under arrest in a foreign land, or asleep, or have you simply expired?         a. wayne harrison

The problem with products containing distilates (in fact, just about anything with an organic solvent) is that the solvents will interact with the plasticizers in the fly line.  Most lines today are built with a plastic coating over a braided core.  If you get solvent onto the coating, a wide variety of things can happen, most of them bad.  Typical results can include (but are not limited to) cracking, softening, peeling, loss of the outer skin, etc.  Probably the worst one is the softening.  I have seen fly lines that were contaminated with gasoline or diesel.  These lines were as limp as overcooked spaghetti, and cast about as well.   Other things you need to be really careful about are- sunscreen, and insect repellant. Be very careful about what you put on your $50 fly line, it could ruin your day.  There are a variety of "resonably priced" line cleaners and dressings out there.  Personally I like Glide, with the caveat that I have to be able to let it dry for long enough before I buff it off(1-2 hrs)-If you do not let it dry, or do not remove excess, it is like glue.  Otherwise, I will use SA line cleaner and dressing in a pinch.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Rain-X ought to work.  It’s basically wax in some solvents (distillates) and when they evaporate, it leaves an easy to polish windshield.         my god, george gherke, are you suffering from laryngitits, or under arrest in a foreign land, or asleep, or have you simply expired?         a. wayne harrison The problem with products containing distilates (in fact, just about anything with an organic solvent) is that the solvents will interact with the plasticizers in the fly line.  Most lines today are built with a plastic coating over a braided core.

The Advantage to using rain x is it works best when dry. You pre treat all flies the night before. The next day you are ready and will not get any thing on the flyline but the water you are fishing in. Jim

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <HTML &nbsp; <BR <BR <BR Rain-X ought to work.&nbsp; It’s basically wax in some solvents (distillates) and <BR when they evaporate, it leaves an easy to polish windshield. <BR <BR&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; my god, george gherke, are you suffering from laryngitits, or <BR under arrest in a foreign land, or asleep, or have you simply expired? <BR <BR&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; a. wayne harrison</BLOCKQUOTE _______ No Wayne honey, I’m not asleep.&nbsp; I just know you know better.What you say about solvents destroying fly lines is excellent and accurate. <Pgeorge gehrke <BRmr. gink <P_______ Now you force me to review the copy below that followed. <

        i knew you wouldn’t dissapoint me, george…         a. wayne harrison

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The last distallate I tasted was in a little ’shne from the hills.  Didn’t like the taste….. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – it has some really strong petroleum distillates.  I woud think it would damge fly line and leave a horrendous taste on flies. It’s been more than 50 years since my last chemistry class, but aren’t "distillates" volatile?  Wouldn’t they evaporate? Home heating oil is a distillate. Try pouring some of that around your basement floor and see how fast it evaporates…

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it has some really strong petroleum distillates.  I woud think it would damge fly line and leave a horrendous taste on flies. It’s been more than 50 years since my last chemistry class, but aren’t "distillates" volatile?  Wouldn’t they evaporate?

Home heating oil is a distillate. Try pouring some of that around your basement floor and see how fast it evaporates…

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Question:

I’m looking for recommendations for cabins on the Highway 88 corridor, east of Jackson and west of, say, the Highway 89 intersection.  Does anyone know of any available? Thanks for any info you can give me. Search engines retrieve nothing useful.. -Mark

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There is a store and cabins for rent just east of the intersection of 88 and 89.  The closest thing going back west from the intersection is a couple of small places called Cook’s and Hamm’s. — Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-Mail FLY FISHING BOOK AUCTION http://users.ccnet.com/~emh – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m looking for recommendations for cabins on the Highway 88 corridor, east of Jackson and west of, say, the Highway 89 intersection.  Does anyone know of any available? Thanks for any info you can give me. Search engines retrieve nothing useful.. -Mark

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Two places you might try: Sorenson’s.  800-423-9949.  Located in Hope Valley at the intersections of 88/89 at about 6,000′.  They have flyfishing classes and lots of local advice.  Pricey, but very nice and they serve great meals. Caples Lake Resort.  209-258-8888.  Located on 88 at about 8,000′ next to a beautiful lake. Good luck

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Question:

Im looking for website’s and any other information on the purchase of an 8 foot Pram for Flyfishing. Any help or advice is greatly appreciated. Tight Lines, Ernest V

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There is a company called Spring Creek on Bainbridge Island who sells an 8′ pram which is the best I’ve seen.  49" beam 16" freeboard, fiberglass, 65#. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Im looking for website’s and any other information on the purchase of an 8 foot Pram for Flyfishing. Any help or advice is greatly appreciated. Tight Lines, Ernest V

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Question:

iI would like to thank all who responded to my request for books on "fly patterns". I now have a realy good list to choose from. I’m sure it will keep me busy all winter. Thanks Again

Response:

Hi Gerald Happy to help, that’s what this newsgroup is all about. — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (97 catalog) http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

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Question:

[some deleted] But the attitude by these anglers was" I caught and released that fish on a real artificial fly (probably a chartreuse egg pattern with attractant sprayed on it ) with a  2 lb tippet. So I must be a better sportsmen then the guy in the lawn chair." This is nothing but alot of Crap in my book.

I sense and share your frustration Mike.  Hang tough and keep up the good work. TimW

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The driving force behind  this definition was to eliminate the use of premolded scented baits (berkely power eggs) that were LEGALLY artificial until January of this year.

That is definitely a point we have to keep in mind. The message that started this thread made all sorts of dire pronouncements that any artificial material would be prohibited in fishing. As several people pointed out, that pretty much eliminates steel hooks, synthetic yarn, nylon monofilament leaders and much of what we use to fish with. It’s also the exact opposite of what was really being proposed. Let’s leave off the alarmist garbage and deal with the real issues. The worm fisherman is no more or less holy than we of the exalted fly genre. Different people enjoy different types of fishing and different waters require different regulations. The real question is whether Power Eggs(tm) and the like constitute some sort of unfair advantage in certain waters or are conducive to higher mortality through deep hooking. That’s presumably why we pay big bucks to marine biologists to set these policies. — |     Liberty Communications — Spreading the Word     | |                Michael P. Thompson                   |

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snip The real question is whether Power Eggs(tm) and the like constitute some sort of unfair advantage in certain waters or are conducive to higher mortality through deep hooking. That’s presumably why we pay big bucks to marine biologists to set these policies.

snip I’m not sure I understand the concept of "unfair advantage" when it comes to fishing.  The first thing that came to mind was some fly fishermen being upset about bait working better (I know that’s not what you meant Michael). Ross Wilson

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Mike, I think there’s no doubt that a 3-inch Power Tube is an "artificial" under the new regulations. If it were less than 1.5 inches it would not be an artificial. After thinking more about your posts, however, I guess I’ve come around to your view that the new regs won’t cover a variety of possible situations, especially ones where there is scented material made part of a lure or fly over 1.5 inches long. Best wishes.  Jeff

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Let’s leave off the alarmist garbage and deal with the real issues. The worm fisherman is no more or less holy than we of the exalted fly genre. Different people enjoy different types of fishing and different waters require different regulations.

Except the worm fishermen doesn’t lobby, pressure, or persuade those that we pay the big bucks to exclude the flyfishermen from their preferred methods of enjoyment. respectfully, Mike Miller

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if it weren’t for the greedy flyfishing industry, this would not even be an issue..IMHO..protectionism… TimW

Greed……no doubt, but I suspect more than just the Fly – fishing industry regards, Mike

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Ok Jeff, so answer this question please, Can you or can you not fish with a 3" BERKLEY POWER TUBE? regards, Mike

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if it weren’t for the greedy flyfishing industry, this would not even be an issue..IMHO..protectionism… TimW Greed……no doubt, but I suspect more than just the Fly – fishing industry

Why would any other group *care* about a flyfishing only definition ? TimW

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – if it weren’t for the greedy flyfishing industry, this would not even be an issue..IMHO..protectionism… TimW Greed……no doubt, but I suspect more than just the Fly – fishing industry Why would any other group *care* about a flyfishing only definition ? TimW

The driving force behind  this definition was to eliminate the use of premolded scented baits (berkely power eggs) that were LEGALLY artificial until January of this year. Spinney Mountain Res. was the focus of much of the debate.  As you probably know Spinney is managed as "Gold Medal" Water with artificial  fly & lure only tackle restrictions and a one fish over 20" bag limit and the canyon  recently had Gold Medal regulations extended to the dam. My reference to purists, elitists, attitudes comes from experience fishing these waters and a witness to the debates over the issue at the commission meetings. On opening day 1995 at Spinney, there was a gentlemen fishing with power eggs. He had brought along the lawn chair and 4 young children. This guy caught about 6 trout that day on his chartreuse colored power eggs allowing each of the kids an opportunity to bring one in. He kept one and as far as I could tell no  harm came to the fish he released. But this guy came under heavy and constant critizism from the crowd (who were primarily fishless) because in their *holier than thou minds* he was a scondrel for using such a bait (although technically he was not breaking any laws.) Now, I will not dispute the fact that PASSIVELY fishing such a bait will probably kill alot of fish that by law have to be released. But at Spinney I have witnessed many a fine fish played to exhaustion, kept out of the water for extreme periods of time, (for the picture ceremony)  dropped on the rocks a couple of times, drug along the bank in the sand, and kicked back into the water because it was only 19 7/8" long. But the attitude by these anglers was" I caught and released that fish on a real artificial fly (probably a chartreuse egg pattern with attractant sprayed on it ) with a  2 lb tippet. So I must be a better sportsmen then the guy in the lawn chair." This is nothing but alot of Crap in my book. regards, Mike Miller

Response:

I just heard that the state of Colorado has decided that flies should not use any artificial (synthetic) materials. If it uses such things as foam, it is a bait and not a fly. Any comments about this. The intent of the Colorado’s definition of what constitutes an *artificial* fly or lure was simply to eliminate scented baits, such as power baits & eggs.  Unfortunately the wording is very confusing and I think the C.D.O.W. doesn’t totallly understand what they have said. It will probably be un – enforceable except for the obvious infractions.

I was surprised (not pleasantly) to notice that Mike Miller was the only one of the many who commented on this who seemed to have actually read the regulation. Most others assumed that what Paul had "just heard" was the gospel truth, then proceeded to denigrate the DOW for being so asinine. It is pretty obvious that very few contemporary fishing flies could be tied without using artificial or synthetic materials. Even rayon thread would be prohibited by such a regulation. Besides, it would be virtually unenforceable and bad for public relations. To prohibit artificial material from an artificial lure such as a fly is counter to the whole idea behind bait regulations. They generally seek to limit the use of live bait and artificial substances which simulate live bait (such as power bait, etc.). It would not make sense for anyone to prohibit the use of artificial materials in an artificial lure. People would have to start carving their bass plugs out of wood again. My point is, on the face of it, this "report" of what Paul had "heard" is not credible and needs to be checked out before we go griping about what stupidity the DOW is currently engaged in. — |     Liberty Communications — Spreading the Word     | |                Michael P. Thompson                   |

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J Let’s not forget that what they are *trying* to do is to find a J definition that excludes powerbait and its related "scented lure" J products. A good point.  Trying is the operative word here and sloppy legislation does not a good bill make.  Having lived in Denver for two years, I applaud setting waters aside for bait (power bait, although synthetic, is still bait IMHO) and artificial approaches. Heck, I _enjoy_ bait fishing once or twice a year for stockies. As a lifelong redneck I have drown my share of worms and crickets and defend anyone’s right to do so. It is up to the folks at wildlife to make sure that catch and keep does not endanger wild fish. Well, there’s my opinion anyway. But thanks for your post!      Trey Monroe

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For example, I’ve fallen in love with the Stimulator this year… it has brought some very large fish to shore.  Why?  Is it a caddis imitation or a stone fly imitation?  I say neither… it’s probably that orange piece in the front of the fly that looks like a Salmon Egg to the fish.  A Stimulator doesn’t closely imitate anything in the water, but sure catches some large fish.

A salmon egg floating on the surface being eaten by what? The Stimulator has the classic profile of both fluttering caddis and stones. Further, how does your egg theory explain the success of the same fly with olive, peacock, and tan thorax regions?

Response:

: A salmon egg floating on the surface being eaten by what? The Stimulator : has the classic profile of both fluttering caddis and stones. Further, : how does your egg theory explain the success of the same fly with olive, : peacock, and tan thorax regions? For me, they haven’t been nearly as effective as the orange color.  And I’m not certain the color triggers anything near a salmon egg… perhaps it looks like a big eye.  My point is that there are better imitations of the things you mention, but the Stimmy works well, often better. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

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if it weren’t for the greedy flyfishing industry, this would not even be an issue..IMHO..protectionism… TimW

Response:

Someone who has the new regulations, please read them and tell me if a 1.6 inch artificial Power Worm is artificial under the new regulation. My reading suggests that they are to be considered "artificial"

This issue arose at Spinney Mountain on opening day 1996, several individuals were using 3" Berkley Power Tubes. They looked identical  to other tube jigs (i.e. gitizits). The State Parks law enforcement officer  explained to me that according to his instructions they were lega, stating they were over 1 1/2". Also a DOW officer checked these fishermen and did not issue a citation or stop them from being used.   However, I contacted the DOW on this issue and at least one official said "no way, they cannot be used and that all  power bait is illegal. " As I stated in a previous post, except for obvious infractions (power eggs)  this law will be un-enforcable. Even the DOW is confused. regards, Mike Miller

Response:

I just heard that the state of Colorado has decided that flies should not use any artificial (synthetic) materials. If it uses such things as foam, it is a bait and not a fly. Any comments about this.

Response:

I just heard that the state of Colorado has decided that flies should not use any artificial (synthetic) materials. If it uses such things as foam, it is a bait and not a fly. Any comments about this.

No Colorado didn’t. I think I’ve heard that F&W is discussing not allowing power bait and other non-natural baits to be fished in the artificals only waters.

Response:

I just heard that the state of Colorado has decided that flies should not use any artificial (synthetic) materials. If it uses such things as foam, it is a bait and not a fly. Any comments about this.

Know any suppliers of barbless *bone* hooks?? — The views expressed are my own and does not represent those of my employer.

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: I just heard that the state of Colorado has decided that flies should not : use any artificial (synthetic) materials. If it uses such things as foam, : it is a bait and not a fly. Any comments about this. Interesting, and really raises some issues.  For example, I’ve fallen in love with the Stimulator this year… it has brought some very large fish to shore.  Why?  Is it a caddis imitation or a stone fly imitation?  I say neither… it’s probably that orange piece in the front of the fly that looks like a Salmon Egg to the fish.  A Stimulator doesn’t closely imitate anything in the water, but sure catches some large fish. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

Response:

The intent of the Colorado’s definition of what constitutes an *artificial* fly or lure was simply to eliminate scented baits, such as  power baits & eggs.  Unfortunately the wording is very confusing and I think the C.D.O.W. doesn’t totallly understand what they have said. It will probably be un – enforceable except for the obvious infractions. It says something like anything less than 1 1/2 inches long cannot be made out of *plastic* or scented material. The question that has come up is what if it is over  1 1/2 inches long  (Berkley Power Tubes for example) or if  it is under 1 1/2inches does this exclude *foam* or even plastic tube jigs (unscented)? And can you add scent to a fly or lure less than 1 1/2 "? regards, Mike Miller – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I just heard that the state of Colorado has decided that flies should not use any artificial (synthetic) materials. If it uses such things as foam, it is a bait and not a fly. Any comments about this.

Response:

(PaulS41846) writes: I just heard that the state of Colorado has decided that flies should not use any artificial (synthetic) materials. If it uses such things as foam, it is a bait and not a fly. Any comments about this.

Does that mean the hook has to be made from a thorn? Steel was synthetic the last time I looked. Don Burns

Response:

(PaulS41846) writes: I just heard that the state of Colorado has decided that flies should not use any artificial (synthetic) materials. If it uses such things as foam, it is a bait and not a fly. Any comments about this.

Oh Yeah! Another reason to simply quit ffing and take up something else (billiards comes immediately to mind….) With all the problems facing the resource, and the sport in general, now the gov is picking at minutea (sp?). The saddest part is that an early and powerful proponent of synth materials for flies, John Betts, lives in Denver. If there is some percieved ecological threat with these materials why didn’t they look at those GD’d foam bobbers (strike indicators) that litter our streams too! Does that mean the hook has to be made from a thorn? Steel was synthetic the last time I looked.

Good Point <G!  Sounds like our politicians are doing their best to screw everything up as usual.  Like with the Rimm Report! </chaz (not Sue)

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P I just heard that the state of Colorado has decided that flies should not P use any artificial (synthetic) materials. If it uses such things as foam, P it is a bait and not a fly. Any comments about this. Hmm, if it isn’t or hasn’t been alive and uses only sight attraction, not smell to attract fish, and you can cast it with a fly rod, that’s close enough to a fly for me. Besides, if this passes, will enforcement be forced to looking through people’s fly boxes to make sure that there is no crystal flash? What about nylon thread, rayon floss, or heavens to gimbles, micro fibbets tailing! Sounds like missplaced emphasis IMHO.      Trey Monroe

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Power Bait on the frying pan river…? Lucky Lou’s…? Getcha thumped…that’s fer sure… In practice, there is a VERY fine line (no pun intended) between a Glo-Bug and a Lucky Lou.  Or a Pittendrigh foam after a little fish slime and power bait.  Or a san Juan worm and a red wriggler.  It’s all in our heads man, that one is somehow better then the other…isn’t it ?   What is the difference between a Kastmaster and a Zonker ? TimW (In case you think that I miss the point….) I have retrieved slimy GloBugs from the gills and gullets of bleeding trout as deeply as shore chucked pautzkees. I have had wooly worms and buggers kill fish.  I have sent small trout flying into the bushes on a #14 adams on an ‘overzealous strike’.  Fish die man no matter WHAT you hook ‘em on…

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Question:

For those on  a limited budget, one approach is to buy a top grizzly neck and then buy some waterproof artist pens and color individual hackles as needed. Keeps down your early investment costs. Hope this helps. Dick Hubbard

Response:

Being new to tying,I need some good advise as to which colors and types of hackle to invest in for dries, nymphs, and wets.

Hi, The four most popular colors in our area (CA) are as follows: 1. Brown 2. Grizzly 3. Dun 4. Creme Much has been said in favor of the beautiful genetic saddle hackles we have available today. I must agree they are wonderful to tie with. They do have one disadvantage though – there is a limited range of sizes present on any one saddle. For versatility, a good quality cape still has the edge.  I hope this helps.   Alan.   Alan Barnard   Kiene’s Fly Shop   Sacramento, Ca.   WWW Fly Tyer   http://www.ns.net/~barnard

Response:

(Richard Hubbard) writes: For those on  a limited budget, one approach is to buy a top grizzly neck and then buy some waterproof artist pens and color individual hackles as needed.

Been there, done that, Pantone markers work real well.  Lay them on a piece of paper towel to help with absorbancy and protect your table.                                               Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Schools Dan Gracia                                                               Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

Response:

Great idea Dan! I’ve done this to my hopper and caddis patterns to get some contrast.   Never thought about "pantoning" hackles" especially when you’re on the road.  It’s alot easier to carry some markers than our valuable hackles. Thanks! +Mike V.

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Question:

I will be travelling in Europe this Spring and have thought to do a little fly fishing.  If there is anyone out there with knowlede of freshwater fishing in Norway or Spain/Portugal (Pyrenes) I would be greatful.  Please post publicaly so others might benefit.  Thanks Grant C. Hughes Portland, OR  (Home of the Deschutes Red Side)

Response:

I will be travelling in Europe this Spring and have thought to do a little fly fishing.  If there is anyone out there with knowlede of freshwater fishing in Norway or Spain/Portugal (Pyrenes) I would be greatful.  Please post publicaly so others might benefit.  Thanks Grant C. Hughes Portland, OR  (Home of the Deschutes Red Side)

Grant! Being a norwegian….I’ll be more than happy to give you some advice and info., but I do need a little more details from you…..especially when you are planning to go, where in Norway (if you are on business) and how much time you got to spend. Spring is a pretty broad term, especially in a country like Norway where we can have spring down south when they still got 6 weeks of winter left further north. In general, I can say that trout season would start sometime in April (a littel dependant where you are) while the salmon season starts mid-May in some rivers and June 1 in most. There is little guided fishing for trout, although opportunities are plenty. Guided salmon fishing is available on most of the bigger rivers (if you can afford the cost). Although I’ve been to Spain and Portugal on a few occasions, I’ve never flyfished and can’t offer any help, but maybe someone else can. Tight lines! Inge Solberg Houston, TX

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