Question:

BTW: why don’t trout eat those skittery little black bugs that hang out near shore and in eddies? I read somewhere that they emit a mild toxin into the water which repels the fish.  They hang out in groups because then there is a higher concentration of the toxin, providing a higher level of safety.

Oh, she’s talking about water striders! I thought she was talking about midges. Kevin’s right. Water striders are toxic. I remember last year at the San Juan Clave there were lots of midges in the eddies and other slackwater, but the fish were ignoring them. I wondered why, and still do. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

BTW: why don’t trout eat those skittery little black bugs that hang out near shore and in eddies? I read somewhere that they emit a mild toxin into the water which repels the fish.  They hang out in groups because then there is a higher concentration of the toxin, providing a higher level of safety.

Thank you.  That sounds right.  I know they’re not fast, as I’ve always been easily able to hand catch one.   — rbc:  vixen    Fairly harmless remove invalid or hit reply to email. Though I’m very slow to respond. http://www.visi.com/~cyli

Response:

BTW: why don’t trout eat those skittery little black bugs that hang out near shore and in eddies?  

I understood that these were just not a favorite food of trout…being that they’re as hard as peanuts.  In NJ, those and skating spiders are not eaten by trout in any waters that I know of.

Response:

One of the first hurdles a beginer needs to clear is to learn how to present a fly on a dead drift. It’s a very important skill but how often is it necessary or even desirable?

I’m loving trying to do it for drys or surface lures, but I can’t bring myself to feel that anything but a really dead bug will drift fairly freely, and even that bug will bounce into and off of things, including the bottom if using an under surface fly / lure. BTW: why don’t trout eat those skittery little black bugs that hang out near shore and in eddies?  I don’t see them much in water where other varieties of decent sized game fish are around or else they stay so shallow that nothing big can get them.  Is it the Monarch butterfly sort of thing in the water? — rbc:  vixen    Fairly harmless remove invalid or hit reply to email. Though I’m very slow to respond. http://www.visi.com/~cyli

Response:

One of the first hurdles a beginer needs to clear is to learn how to present a fly on a dead drift. It’s a very important skill but how often is it necessary or even desirable? I’m loving trying to do it for drys or surface lures, but I can’t bring myself to feel that anything but a really dead bug will drift fairly freely, and even that bug will bounce into and off of things, including the bottom if using an under surface fly / lure.

I kind of hate to post this, because I’m such a "fucking putz" at presenting nymphs compared to people like Willi and Bruce, but here’s my understanding of the theory. There’s something called the "turnover point." When you cast your nymph out, in the normal scheme of things, you should try to get your indicator upstream of the nymph. The current on the surface carries the indicator downstream faster than the deep-drifting nymph. Upstream mends can help, but you risk pulling the fly right out of the trouts’ mouths. There is a point — the "turnover" point — when the nymph is just below the indicator. This is when it’s doing its best rendition of a "dead drift." If you know where the fish are, try to make that the turnover point. BTW: why don’t trout eat those skittery little black bugs that hang out near shore and in eddies?  I don’t see them much in water where other varieties of decent sized game fish are around or else they stay so shallow that nothing big can get them.  Is it the Monarch butterfly sort of thing in the water?

Good question. I think it’s because trout are wary. They don’t want to expose themselves to predators in shallow water when there’s plenty of stuff to eat in safer places. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

There is a point — the "turnover" point — when the nymph is just below the indicator. This is when it’s doing its best rendition of a "dead drift." If you know where the fish are, try to make that the turnover

point. According to Borger, the indicator is more of a drift indicator than strike indicator.  He says if your indicator is drifting as fast as the surface current and your nymph is near the bottom, your nymph is probably dragging. A split shot will help slow it down.  I suppose this would be past the "turnover point" you describe.

Response:

According to Borger, the indicator is more of a drift indicator than strike indicator.  He says if your indicator is drifting as fast as the surface current and your nymph is near the bottom, your nymph is probably dragging. A split shot will help slow it down.  I suppose this would be past the "turnover point" you describe.

Even using the most thought out or "best" combination of weight, leader length etc. there will usually only be a small portion of your drift where the fly is truly approaching a dragfree drift. Like Steve said, you want to try and have this "good" part of the drift in the area that you think holds fish. The deeper the water, overall, the more pronounced this is. You can get more instances of a dragfree drift through mending, but because of the varied currents, it impossible to get a dragfree drift throughout the drift. It’s often difficult to get a dragfree drift with a dry fly. With a dry you can see what’s going on and with a dry, you’re essentially only dealing with a flat plane or two dimensions. With a sunken nymph, in most situations, you have to make inferences about what’s going on with your fly and you’re dealing with three dimensions. MUCH more difficult but fortunately for us, I think the fish are more tolerant of drag with a nymph. Willi

Response:

BTW: why don’t trout eat those skittery little black bugs that hang out near shore and in eddies?

Probably because they are too difficult for the trout to catch. They would experience a net loss in calories because of the energy expended in trying to catch them. Game fish are instinctively aware of the energy/food value relationship, and tend to feed accordingly. George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

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With a sunken nymph, in most situations, you have to make inferences about what’s going on with your fly and you’re dealing with three dimensions. MUCH more difficult but fortunately for us, I think the fish are more tolerant of drag with a nymph.

        and i suspect that this is because many of the insects we are attempting to imitate with nymphs are alive, and move upwards and from side to side as they attempt to reach the surface, as opposed to the nearly motionless float of duns and spinners. wayno (lifelong reader of field&stream)

Response:

BTW: why don’t trout eat those skittery little black bugs that hang out near shore and in eddies?

I read somewhere that they emit a mild toxin into the water which repels the fish.  They hang out in groups because then there is a higher concentration of the toxin, providing a higher level of safety. Kevin — Check out the Pike Clave Website: <http://www.misu.nodak.edu/~vang/PikeClave/

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What percentage of fish do you take during a "dragfree" drift for: Dries       95% Nymphs       95% Wets       40% Streamers      10% Your percentage for nymphs is surprising to me.  Do you usually let them swing across at the end of the dragfree part of the drift?  I take many fish on nymphs, especially BH PTs, on the rising part of the swing–almost as many as when I fish traditional wets (soft hackles, etc.) this way.

    What I really meant to say was, 95% of the time I nymph I *really* try for a dead drift. The other 5% of the time is when I’m moving (stumbling) upstream, dragging the thing behind me, and some inconsiderate trout bites it.

Response:

Willi asks: What percentage of fish do you take during a "dragfree" drift for:

 Dries (over 90)  Nymphs ( not sure, probably most; 75?)  Wets (less than 10)  Streamers (less than 5) — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyoming

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What percentage of fish do you take during a "dragfree" drift for: Dries Nymphs Wets Streamers My estimates: Dries: 90 Nymphs: 80 Wets: 50 Streamers: 20

Dries: definitely in the 90+% range during most mayfly hatches. During stonefly hatches, however, or even when I fish a hopper during terrestrial season, I twitch my fly when it’s drifting. Granted, I attempt for it to be subtle, and only a movement every couple of feet or so, but a lot of the hits come right at the twitch. Nymphs: I’d like to think that ALL my fish hit during drag free drift but I think that’s impossible to do all the time. I’d rank it there around 75%. Wets: When I fish them, which isn’t that often, they are moving for sure. 25%. Streamers: Practically all my fish come during the strip or the swing. I do pick up fish occasionally during a drag-free drift but I don’t fish a streamer that often that way. 10% — Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

Response:

Dries: definitely in the 90+% range during most mayfly hatches. During stonefly hatches, however, or even when I fish a hopper during terrestrial season, I twitch my fly when it’s drifting. Granted, I attempt for it to be subtle, and only a movement every couple of feet or so, but a lot of the hits come right at the twitch.

I concur with this. Another "action" technique I especially like is skittering a caddis imitation through shallow, pocket water. Not sure if it is more effective than just a drag free drift but it sure produces some exciting takes. Streamers: Practically all my fish come during the strip or the swing. I do pick up fish occasionally during a drag-free drift but I don’t fish a streamer that often that way. 10%

I’m not a very able streamer fisherman but I frequently cast up and across with a streamer and let it drift down pretty much drag free to allow it to sink. I have taken some fish during this "drag free" part of the drift. Peter? Willi

Response:

Dries: definitely in the 90+% range during most mayfly hatches. During stonefly hatches, however, or even when I fish a hopper during terrestrial season, I twitch my fly when it’s drifting. Granted, I attempt for it to be subtle, and only a movement every couple of feet or so, but a lot of the hits come right at the twitch. I concur with this. Another "action" technique I especially like is skittering a caddis imitation through shallow, pocket water. Not sure if it is more effective than just a drag free drift but it sure produces some exciting takes.

A very fun hatch on the Clark Fork is a #14 olive caddis, a ‘green rock worm’, IIRC. A free-living caddis. Use a LaFontaine-style (God rest his soul) emerging caddis fished just under the surface film down and across or just straight down. If the fly is making a ‘V’ they don’t seem to want it. But if you get it to still be twitching & dragging, literally just under the surface, they wack it pretty hard. There is a particular hole on the CF that really can only best be fished with an almost straight down approach with this method, but right at dusk on a mid-July evening… oh boy! Streamers: Practically all my fish come during the strip or the swing. I do pick up fish occasionally during a drag-free drift but I don’t fish a streamer that often that way. 10% I’m not a very able streamer fisherman but I frequently cast up and across with a streamer and let it drift down pretty much drag free to allow it to sink. I have taken some fish during this "drag free" part of the drift. Peter?

I must amend to my streamer statement above that most of my streamer fishing is done from a boat. With a good oarsman at the helm, you can get some amazingly good presentations that can cover a lot of good water. — Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dries: definitely in the 90+% range during most mayfly hatches. During stonefly hatches, however, or even when I fish a hopper during terrestrial season, I twitch my fly when it’s drifting. Granted, I attempt for it to be subtle, and only a movement every couple of feet or so, but a lot of the hits come right at the twitch. I concur with this. Another "action" technique I especially like is skittering a caddis imitation through shallow, pocket water. Not sure if it is more effective than just a drag free drift but it sure produces some exciting takes. Streamers: Practically all my fish come during the strip or the swing. I do pick up fish occasionally during a drag-free drift but I don’t fish a streamer that often that way. 10% I’m not a very able streamer fisherman but I frequently cast up and across with a streamer and let it drift down pretty much drag free to allow it to sink. I have taken some fish during this "drag free" part of the drift. Peter? Willi

I rarely fish streamers on the dead drift though it can be a useful imitation of a dead or dying minnow with the right pattern.  I tried one day for steelhead using a small, weighted streamer on the dead drift and ended up with a bunch of bugle trout.  They obviously feed on the dead.  I’ve also had carp and smallies suck in streamers when I’ve been counting the fly down on the sink, while fishing in still water. I know that you know this Willi, but as a general comment  . . . About drag for dries, nymphs, and wets – I try to get the situation right for the insect that’s active.  One example – on Whiteman’s Creek, it was Hendrickson time but there was nothing in the air.  I was dead drifting a H. nymph by a log jam in fairly deep water and was batting a fat zero.  Then I remembered that Hendrickson nymphs migrate to shallow, slow water to hatch.  I was standing on the inside of a bend in shallow, slow water so I slowly retrieved my H. nymph along the bottom toward me and picked up a 12" rainbow on the first try.  A few more casts picked up some more fish.   Some mayfly nymphs and caddis pupae are very active swimmers and some mayfly emergers change into adult form a foot or so below the surface before swimming up with their wings (e.g. Dark Hendricksons.)  Many caddis do the same and with some species, the gas they generate causes them to rocket up.  As caddis have micro hairs on their wings they can fly off immediately on emergence whereas mayflies usually need to dry their wings first resulting in lots of fluttering.  Some caddis skitter across the surface before flying off and a few stillwater caddis will skate on the surface all the way to the shore.  When egg laying, some caddis and mayflies dap their eggs on the surface while other caddis and mayflies dive, penetrating the meniscus and laying their eggs on the bottom before swimming back up and flying off (or dying in the mayfly case.)  Small trout will often leap out of the water after dapping egg layers while others actively chase the divers. None of this behaviour can be imitated by a dead drift. Moral:  Know the behaviour of the bug.  Drag is not always your enemy – especially when it’s deliberate. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

One of the first hurdles a beginer needs to clear is to learn how to present a fly on a dead drift. It’s a very important skill but how often is it necessary or even desirable? What percentage of fish do you take during a "dragfree" drift for: Dries Nymphs Wets Streamers My estimates: Dries: 90 Nymphs: 80 Wets: 50 Streamers: 20 Willi

Response:

One of the first hurdles a beginer needs to clear is to learn how to present a fly on a dead drift. It’s a very important skill but how often is it necessary or even desirable? What percentage of fish do you take during a "dragfree" drift for: Dries … My estimates: Dries: 90

When people talk about "educated" fish, I think recognizing a dragfree drift is the piscine equivalent of the PhD. I also think it’s highly dependent on the particular watershed. Some places, relatively sterile mountain streams for instance, you can catch a fish with just about any sort of drift at all. On a heavily fished spring creek I’d say that the percentage of fish I take with a dragfree drift is for all intents and purposes 100%. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

One of the first hurdles a beginer needs to clear is to learn how to present a fly on a dead drift. It’s a very important skill but how often is it necessary or even desirable?

Well, IMO, the term "drag free" drift is the wrong term to use for _teaching_ beginners, although _presenting_ in such fashion, is, to me, different than _fishing_ a fly, even if the take occurs within a second or two of presentation.  What is important as to _fishing_ is to not appear so unnatural as to either confuse, and therefore, "spook," a fish or simply telegraph that an offering isn’t food. Granted, this often means no unnatural drag, which is often "drag free" and likely, most experienced fishers know this and use the term "drag free" as a catch-all term.  But I think it does beginners a disservice to teach absolutes (take "the wrist must always be locked or you are casting improperly" training many get, for example) as being an absolute success/failure type of situation. What percentage of fish do you take during a "dragfree" drift for: My estimates: Dries: 90 Nymphs: 80 Wets: 50 Streamers: 20

Hmm…I thought a little about it, and I can’t come up with any numbers beyond mere WAGs.  Maybe to my detriment, I don’t seem to take note of this type of data in such a way to be able to quantify it. I’m not suggesting that doing so is improper, just that I don’t.  Or maybe I do take subconscious note, but it has become one of those "I don’t know why I do it that way, I just do" things.   But if forced to make a WAG, I’d say dries, about like your number, wets, about 80-90, and streamers, upwards of 0, but less than 10 <G (simply due to the way I <mostly fish streamers, they wouldn’t be doing much "drifting," drag-free or otherwise, as I take your meaning of "drifting.") TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Willi

Response:

One of the first hurdles a beginer needs to clear is to learn how to present a fly on a dead drift. It’s a very important skill but how often is it necessary or even desirable? What percentage of fish do you take during a "dragfree" drift for: Dries  

have to say 99%  Worked dries are a minor tactic for me. Nymphs  

couldn’t possibly tell with the deep nymphs, but certainly to shallow sighted fish 100% Wets

70% Streamers

10% Steve

Response:

What percentage of fish do you take during a "dragfree" drift for: Dries       95% Nymphs       95% Wets       40% Streamers

     10%

Response:

What percentage of fish do you take during a "dragfree" drift for: Dries       95% Nymphs       95% Wets       40% Streamers      10%

Your percentage for nymphs is surprising to me.  Do you usually let them swing across at the end of the dragfree part of the drift?  I take many fish on nymphs, especially BH PTs, on the rising part of the swing–almost as many as when I fish traditional wets (soft hackles, etc.) this way.   JR

Response:

One of the first hurdles a beginer needs to clear is to learn how to present a fly on a dead drift. It’s a very important skill but how often is it necessary or even desirable? My estimates: Nymphs: 80

The more I think about nymphing, the harder it is to believe that a drag free drift happens very often.  Think how difficult it can be with dry flies – in 2 dimensions.  Nymphing is in 3 dimensions, so the problems you have with a dry fly drift are magnified.  Finally, add in the fact that the water slows near the bottom of the river where we often fish nymphs, and it’s a wonder we ever catch a fish. I conclude 2 things: – we are not always getting a drag free drift, but many nymphs do move around under water under their own power.  Sometimes drag simulates this. – there are so many swirling currents in "mixed water" (near bottom rocks and obstructions), that even the trout can’t always detect drag underwater.  Even natural nymphs move in randomly changing ways in some of the "micro currents". There must be places where the flow is constant and trout can detect drag, but there must be places where it’s not, too.  You can probably convince yourself of this by tossing little things into turbulent water several times and watching how they drift differently each time.

Response:

One of the first hurdles a beginer needs to clear is to learn how to present a fly on a dead drift. It’s a very important skill but how often is it necessary or even desirable?

An interesting question, and one I have no idea of the answer.   One thing RDean said tweaked my though process however, and I began thinking not in terms of drag, but time as measurement.   I’m actually amazed at how many of the fish I catch hit the fly within a couple seconds of it hitting the water.   That probably means I suck at drag free drift.   I’m also amazed at how fast the fish can get there.   Unless I’m dropping it right on his nose, those guys really cover some ground, so to speak.   On occasions where flows are simple enough, I do catch some farther down the drift, but generally if I don’t have a take in the first 5 sec., I’m not going to get one. Joe F.

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Question:

I live 20 miles southeast of dayton and trying to find some streams or rivers to fish for trout if possible since i’m still new to fly fishing , I have only been in the lakes and ponds fishing for bass and bluegill .   So far I have found alot of areas to fish for bass, bluegill and carp but not one trout yet , any info would help and would be appreciated .

Response:

What’s the first rank after tenderfoot? Well, anyhow, having just gotten beyond that myself, let me be the first to chastise you for not doing a simple search….you might have discovered these links… http://www.state.oh.us/agr/trout.html http://www.activedayton.com/community/groups/mvff/Stream_Reports.html http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/odnr/wildlife/fishing/fairport/page6.html http://www.fishohio.net/ http://home.att.net/~tumadmen/Links/links.html http://www.flyshop.com/Centers/Midwest/7-98Mad/ http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/odnr/wildlife/fishing/ http://home.att.net/~jorgeddr/fish.htm ..but then we all learn don’t we? And one thing you’ll learn is that it is a popular misconception is that fly fishing means trout. Granted the two go hand in hand, particular in mountain streams where fly fishing lends itself much more readily to the circumstances. For trout, it’s but a few hours to the Smokies, or even West Virginia if you wish to get away a little bit. Ohio is not exactly a trout fisherman’s paradise but they can be found…… I figure you have to be down around Ceasars Creek somewhere. Now, I pounded many a fruitless hour on the distant streams while learning how to fish for trout (spooky little devils they are) when I should have been fishing my local waters…for smallmouth bass. Brush Creek, the Little Miami, Ceasars creek from the spillway to the Little Miami, any of the roller dams on the Miami are productive and I like the Miami above Dayton in particular. The upper Mad is good for trout and the lower Mad is dynamite for smallmouth bass…..yes these streams are smallmouth bass streams. Smallmouth are the dominate fish here in Ohio. Don’t ignore good fishing just because you have a flyrod and think that you *have* to fish for trout.  I fish for all species of fish, using a flyrod exclusively, not using a flyrod exclusively for trout….

Response:

I live 20 miles southeast of dayton and trying to find some streams or rivers to fish for trout if possible since i’m still new to fly fishing , I have only been in the lakes and ponds fishing for bass and bluegill .   So far I have found alot of areas to fish for bass, bluegill and carp but not one trout yet , any info would help and would be appreciated .

Just catching up on ROFF and noticed your post. You can get trout in the Mad River above Urbana off RT 68.  Go up there about 8-12 miles past Urbana and take one of many township roads that go left and cross over the Mad.  It is about 20-30 ft wide in this area and does hold trout in the smaller size range, mostly under 10 in.  They are a wary bunch and difficult to catch but they are there.  There is a certain hole up there that holds a number of over 12 in trout on a regular basis but I can’t remember off hand what the crossroad is, but could possibly look it up in my Ohio Gazetteer map which at this moment is in my truck, four floors down from my condo in Florida.  If you are going up there I could probably try to find that little mark on the map for you, let me know. Also,  try   http://www.madriveroutfitters.com/   They guide up there on a regular basis. Regards,  Jim McCreary

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What’s the first rank after tenderfoot? Well, anyhow, having just gotten beyond that myself, let me be the first to chastise you for not doing a simple search….you might have discovered these links… http://www.state.oh.us/agr/trout.html http://www.activedayton.com/community/groups/mvff/Stream_Reports.html http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/odnr/wildlife/fishing/fairport/page6.html http://www.fishohio.net/ http://home.att.net/~tumadmen/Links/links.html http://www.flyshop.com/Centers/Midwest/7-98Mad/ http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/odnr/wildlife/fishing/ http://home.att.net/~jorgeddr/fish.htm ..but then we all learn don’t we? And one thing you’ll learn is that it is a popular misconception is that fly fishing means trout. Granted the two go hand in hand, particular in mountain streams where fly fishing lends itself much more readily to the circumstances. For trout, it’s but a few hours to the Smokies, or even West Virginia if you wish to get away a little bit. Ohio is not exactly a trout fisherman’s paradise but they can be found…… I figure you have to be down around Ceasars Creek somewhere. Now, I pounded many a fruitless hour on the distant streams while learning how to fish for trout (spooky little devils they are) when I should have been fishing my local waters…for smallmouth bass. Brush Creek, the Little Miami, Ceasars creek from the spillway to the Little Miami, any of the roller dams on the Miami are productive and I like the Miami above Dayton in particular. The upper Mad is good for trout and the lower Mad is dynamite for smallmouth bass…..yes these streams are smallmouth bass streams. Smallmouth are the dominate fish here in Ohio. Don’t ignore good fishing just because you have a flyrod and think that you *have* to fish for trout.  I fish for all species of fish, using a flyrod exclusively, not using a flyrod exclusively for trout….

gawdangit john, if feasible, yer ugly mug would be most welcome to accompany my equally, if not more so hideous self on a trout stream or two… or three. ya know the place, ya know da number… –waldo

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Question:

Hi my name is Jeff and I have these things for sale If you like what you read and would like a link to a picture please reply to sender 416.654.2612 To get your Canadian or US order in the mail or ready for pickup today..! SHAKESPEARE – $41.00 CAN plus shipping Factory  Balanced Alpha- KSP66 2M, Medium Action Rod,  6′6", 6-12lb line, twist lock and release reel design rod, & Alpha 2540 Graphite EZ Cast, bearing drive reel. FENWICK Eagle GLC EF867  Fly Rod, 7 weight 31/4oz. – $160.00 CAN 8′6"rod, includes protective rod sleeve and monogrammed nylon tubular case with zippered end  . TUNDRA Back Packs – $38.00 CAN two for $70.00 Water proof construction with water resistant zippers, large front pouch with latch and zipper. Bullet Shaped Lighters – $5.95 each or two for $10.95 plus shipping. (CAN) With key chain clip. Made from solid brass. These lighters are waterproof and have rubber ‘o’ rings at both ends. Refillable with liquid fuel. Very handy for emergency lights while hunting, fishing or hiking. Come in solid brass and chrome plate. Wildlife Fridge Magnets – Large lifelike animal fridge magnets. 3D design with airbrush finish. Items come in Bass, Pickerel(walleye), and White-tailed deer.  They Look so real on the fridge that you’ll be grabbing for your rod & reel (or your riffle) before your morning coffee..! $5.85 each CAN or  The Whole Wildlife Collection for $15.97 CAN plus shipping. Camouflage Suspenders – Button-0n type for pants or Clip-0n type for pants. 1 1/2" wide strap quality Canadian made. Real tree pattern. Blend in with the rest of your camouflage gear. $19.95 CAN plus shipping. If you like what you read and would like a link to a picture please reply to sender 416.654.2612 To get your Canadian or US order in the mail or ready for pickup today..!

Response:

Gee — camouflage suspenders — sounds like the perfect addition to my fishing wardrobe — I knew something was missing…

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi my name is Jeff and I have these things for sale If you like what you read and would like a link to a picture please reply to sender 416.654.2612 To get your Canadian or US order in the mail or ready for pickup today..! SHAKESPEARE – $41.00 CAN plus shipping Factory  Balanced Alpha- KSP66 2M, Medium Action Rod,  6′6", 6-12lb line, twist lock and release reel design rod, & Alpha 2540 Graphite EZ Cast, bearing drive reel. FENWICK Eagle GLC EF867  Fly Rod, 7 weight 31/4oz. – $160.00 CAN 8′6"rod, includes protective rod sleeve and monogrammed nylon tubular case with zippered end  . TUNDRA Back Packs – $38.00 CAN two for $70.00 Water proof construction with water resistant zippers, large front pouch with latch and zipper. Bullet Shaped Lighters – $5.95 each or two for $10.95 plus shipping. (CAN) With key chain clip. Made from solid brass. These lighters are waterproof and have rubber ‘o’ rings at both ends. Refillable with liquid fuel. Very handy for emergency lights while hunting, fishing or hiking. Come in solid brass and chrome plate. Wildlife Fridge Magnets – Large lifelike animal fridge magnets. 3D design with airbrush finish. Items come in Bass, Pickerel(walleye), and White-tailed deer.  They Look so real on the fridge that you’ll be grabbing for your rod & reel (or your riffle) before your morning coffee..! $5.85 each CAN or  The Whole Wildlife Collection for $15.97 CAN plus shipping. Camouflage Suspenders – Button-0n type for pants or Clip-0n type for pants. 1 1/2" wide strap quality Canadian made. Real tree pattern. Blend in with the rest of your camouflage gear. $19.95 CAN plus shipping. If you like what you read and would like a link to a picture please reply to sender 416.654.2612 To get your Canadian or US order in the mail or ready for pickup today..!

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I know what should be missing…….this thread from the —  The RodMaker(aka)  The Shadow……hehehe

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Gee — camouflage suspenders — sounds like the perfect addition to my fishing wardrobe — I knew something was missing… Hi my name is Jeff and I have these things for sale If you like what you read and would like a link to a picture please reply to sender 416.654.2612 To get your Canadian or US order in the mail or ready for pickup today..! SHAKESPEARE – $41.00 CAN plus shipping Factory  Balanced Alpha- KSP66 2M, Medium Action Rod,  6′6", 6-12lb line, twist lock and release reel design rod, & Alpha 2540 Graphite EZ Cast, bearing drive reel. FENWICK Eagle GLC EF867  Fly Rod, 7 weight 31/4oz. – $160.00 CAN 8′6"rod, includes protective rod sleeve and monogrammed nylon tubular case with zippered end  . TUNDRA Back Packs – $38.00 CAN two for $70.00 Water proof construction with water resistant zippers, large front pouch with latch and zipper. Bullet Shaped Lighters – $5.95 each or two for $10.95 plus shipping. (CAN) With key chain clip. Made from solid brass. These lighters are waterproof and have rubber ‘o’ rings at both ends. Refillable with liquid fuel. Very handy for emergency lights while hunting, fishing or hiking. Come in solid brass and chrome plate. Wildlife Fridge Magnets – Large lifelike animal fridge magnets. 3D design with airbrush finish. Items come in Bass, Pickerel(walleye), and White-tailed deer.  They Look so real on the fridge that you’ll be grabbing for your rod & reel (or your riffle) before your morning coffee..! $5.85 each CAN or  The Whole Wildlife Collection for $15.97 CAN plus shipping. Camouflage Suspenders – Button-0n type for pants or Clip-0n type for pants. 1 1/2" wide strap quality Canadian made. Real tree pattern. Blend in with the rest of your camouflage gear. $19.95 CAN plus shipping. If you like what you read and would like a link to a picture please reply to sender 416.654.2612 To get your Canadian or US order in the mail or ready for pickup today..!

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Question:

Can someone direct me to a good web site for information on fishing the many trout streams in PA and NY states?  Thanks.

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Can someone direct me to a good web site for information on fishing the many trout streams in PA and NY states?  Thanks.

Steve, This site has some good info and up to date stream reports posted by anglers. http://www.paflyfish.easetech.com/ Tim

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Can someone direct me to a good web site for information on fishing the many trout streams in PA and NY states?  Thanks.

Steve My site uner ‘Links’ – ‘Destinations’ has about ten links to PA, ME, and VT flyfishing information sites. Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.cgocable.net/~pcharles/index.html

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Question:

I’m going to be camping and fishing at Lake Almanor this coming weekend (June 13 -14). Is there anyone out there who might be able to pass on some tips? Is it true that mid-June is the time of the Hex hatch there? Is fishing from a tube a must? All tips and hints are sincerely appreciated. Scott

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Scott,     The lake is high and cold.  All the tributaries are pumping in snow melt and the laake is about three feet from being full.  At this point the fishing is slow.  What fish are being taken are full of midges  and a few Hex. nymphs they are grubbing along the bottom.     We normally look toward the 4th of July for our Hex hatch.  This is still a little early and the hatch will be delayed until the water conditions are better.  Try Yellow creek or look for some small streams, of which there are plenty in the area, to get some fishing in. Ralph Wood C & R Guide Service – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m going to be camping and fishing at Lake Almanor this coming weekend (June 13 -14). Is there anyone out there who might be able to pass on some tips? Is it true that mid-June is the time of the Hex hatch there? Is fishing from a tube a must? All tips and hints are sincerely appreciated. Scott

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Question:

Hey, I’ve heard striped bass are starting to show up in the surf outside a couple of bays down south.  Is anybody fishing for them from the beach? Dave DeLacey Corvallis, Or.

I think they are always in the lower Umpqua.  Denny Hannah used to guide for them when he wasn’t guiding for salmon, steelhead and smallmouth bass.  That river also has a good shad run.  Great fishery – long way off. -Burton — L. Burton Hawley         2330 NW Hummingbird Corvallis, OR

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Hey, I’ve heard striped bass are starting to show up in the surf outside a couple of bays down south.  Is anybody fishing for them from the beach? Dave DeLacey Corvallis, Or.

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Hey, I’ve heard striped bass are starting to show up in the surf outside a couple of bays down south.  Is anybody fishing for them from the beach? Dave DeLacey Corvallis, Or.

Oh…I thought the post was about strippers in Oregon.

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Hey, I’ve heard striped bass are starting to show up in the surf outside a couple of bays down south.  Is anybody fishing for them from the beach? Dave DeLacey Corvallis, Or.

Hell, as Ken Hanely would say, " Go get ‘em." Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

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Question:

Can anyone tell me about the quality of fly fishing in Arkansas the second week of Oct.?   Where to go and stay with a spouse that would like to do things other than fish? Thanks for your help.    

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Check out Gaston’s White River Resort in Lakeview.  It’s just below the Bull Shoals Dam.  Jim Gaston Has a homepage on the WEB & a lot of stuff upoloaded to the fishing libraries of CompuServe.

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I don’t want to sound like some spam spewing gimp, but my wife and I stayed at Gaston’s Resort in Northern Ark. on the White River just below Bull Shoals Dam and had a terrific time. The Cabins are clean and well stocked with fire wood (daily), A beautiful view of the river is available from the cushioned window seats in the cabin. And in less than twenty minutes you can be standing in Brown Trout Heaven (w/ a few Rainbows in the mix) in the C/R area just below Bull Shoals Dam. I just hope their not running water when you’re there. You can reach them by dialing: (501)431-5202 My last trip there was Jan 2nd-5th of this year. No water out of the dam, Browns stacked up in spawning beds, and of course very few fishermen. I ran an egg sucking leech through the rapids and regularly hooked into 20+" fish that weren’t quick to the net. I suspect if the weather gets and stays cool early this year, the spawn will probably be starting just as you arrive. Tight Lines, J&J Sandone

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Question:

I will be in the Utica NY area later this week and was wondering if anyone had any info on the local streams.  My time is limited while I’m there so I’m looking for easy stream access and decent fishing in a single area.  Thanks for the help. Trip — 14 Mamaroneck Ave                                phone: 914/948-6200 x7515 White Plains, NY 10601                           fax:   914/948-6270

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Richard, without a doubt you will want to make a visit to the West Canada about 30 min from Utica. Rte.12 north to the Rte.8 (Poland) exit to Rte. 28, make a left on Rte.28. Go a few miles to a parking area on the right. Fish up or downstream of the bridge. Although most major hatches are over you may encounter sporadic cream variant (prior to dark) and definitely caddis (#14 tan, #18 black). There are always plenty of caddis and plenty of fish (browns). Water conditions have been excellent. Good luck and let me know how you make out.

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The West Canda Creek, 15 minutes north of Utica is a blue-ribbon trout stream with a section of "artificials-only". Its a fabulous trout stream, as good as anything isn the east, but not well known outside of the Utica area. I learned to fish on the WCC when I was about 8(40 yrs ago) and spent many a summer day there with my grandfather. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly I will be in the Utica NY area later this week and was wondering if anyone had any info on the local streams.  My time is limited while I’m there so I’m looking for easy stream access and decent fishing in a single area.  Thanks for the help. Trip — **** System Management ARTS                               email:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -14 Mamaroneck Ave                            phone: 914/948-6200 x7515 White Plains, NY 10601                               fax:   914/948-6270

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Question:

: Are you referring to the Grand Wagoneer? With the cheesy wood trim along : the doors? : In 1994 The Grand Cheroke models I’ve seen are the Laredo, Limited, and : another without a designation that has the V8, tow,  & gold package. : Where does this model fall amongst the other 2 models as far as features : and accessories?? : : : : NO NO, not the ugly things, the sleek "Cheroke" replacement that never replaced it! Anyway, there is another pakage, the Orvis Ed.  This comes with the V8, tow, gold, and special interior treatment that is reflective of the "Orvis" company (I am told that they are a big fly fishing company in New England).  Personaly, I think the Limited with the V8 is the ultimate pakage (my friend has 2, a ‘94 4.0 limited and an ‘95 V8 limited).                                 -Sean "Doc" Hollywood

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Are you referring to the Grand Wagoneer? With the cheesy wood trim along the doors? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In 1994 The Grand Cheroke models I’ve seen are the Laredo, Limited, and another without a designation that has the V8, tow,  & gold package. Where does this model fall amongst the other 2 models as far as features and accessories??

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Question:

Among your goals you forgot.. "protect your feet from hazards of the river and trail".   No sandal can do this without neoprene socks, and neoprene boots are less nuisance than neoprene socks plus something else. Since my Patagonia reef walkers (sock top, felt sole, rubber caps for toe and heel) died, I’ve been using neoprene boots all summer.  When my feet get warm I put them in the water.  When it’s very cold I use neoprene socks under neoprene boots … Mary Shaw

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I’m looking for suggestions on whitewater footwear? A couple of people have suggested rock climbing shoes.  Has anyone (anyone who doesn’t work at SGI, that is tried this?  How much do these cost?  How well do they grip both wet and dry rocks?  Are they comfortable enough to wear on long trips (both long days and overnighters)?

As someone who climbs and kayaks, I would highly discourage the use of rock shoes for kayaking.  Rock shoes have almost no traction on wet rocks.  They are tight and uncomfortable, and they would probably disintegrate under the wet conditions encountered on the river. After experimenting with a number of solutions (Aqua Socks, Wetsuit booties, TEVA sandals with neoprene socks) I have settled on the following solution: neoprene booties with felt soles (ala fly fishing waders).  They give good traction on wet rocks, OK traction on dry rocks, and are comfortable to wear all day in a kayak.  They are available from a number of suppliers – I got mine from Nortwest River Supplies without the felt soles, then glued on the felt soles after I found the ribbed rubber soles to not offer enough traction on wet and mossy rocks. Your mileage may vary. Kurt Bittner       ]"It is not Nature-as-Chaos which threatens us, but the

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There was a rather stupid article about this recently in Outdoor magazine. They seemed to favor manufacturers who advertised in the magazine, rather than those with good products.  For example, they liked Timberland sandals, despite leather that wouldn’t survive constant wetting, and flimsy velcro that would come loose even in a class II swim. Whitewater footwear must meet a variety of often contradictory goals:  o Sometimes it must be warm, sometimes it must be cool and dry fast.    Neoprene booties meet the first goal, but are terrible in hot weather,    especially for side hikes.  Soggy sneakers feel awful by end of day.    Only Teva-style sandals with optional neoprene socks meet both goals.  o Easy to put on and take off, but must be secure during a big "swim".    Neoprene booties with side zippers are the best compromise, but the    zipper can fail and cold water penetrates there.  If you can tuck in    the rear velcro, toe-loop Tevas are more secure in a swim than Teva    Universals, which have three velcro sections to come loose.  o Good traction on wet rocks, good traction for climbing on side hikes.    Felt soles are best on wet rocks, whereas tread patterns are best on    side hikes.  A good compromise would be flat stealth rubber.  Sneakers    or light hiking boots with wetsocks are a good choice.  Oddly enough,    Tevas have better all-around traction after the tread wears down.  o Stiffness and lateral support for hiking, flexibility for kayaking.    Neoprene booties are terrible on long hikes, but great for footpegs.    Toe-loop Tevas provide more lateral support than sandals that surround    the foot, but 2-toe wetsocks are neither warm nor comfortable, plus    toe loops are not adjustable. The Teva 5.10 Approach seems to be the best product available, but costs around $80.  Available either toe-loop or around-the-foot. It has buckles instead of velcro, and stealth rubber soles, unfortunately with pattern. Stealth rubber wears out fast.  Cheapskates can always have regular Tevas resoled, and use safety pins on the velcro. Some guides like Alp sandals, but I hate them.  They’re very difficult to put on, and every time I take a swim, the front strap comes off.  The soles are very slippery on sand-covered dry rock.  They’re much better now that the tread has worn off but the nylon straps are badly frayed after only two seasons. Sierra Hi-Trax sandals are worth looking at.  They have buckles instead of velcro, appear to wear longer than any alternative, and cost much less. I haven’t tried them yet.  The soles are patterned rubber.  Several designs are available, including toe-loop and diagonal strap models.

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Best thing I’ve found is neoprene boots with felt soles. The felt is the same stuff fishermen use on the soles of their waders to provide good footing on slippery rocks. For summer, I used to wear the Patagonia one-toed things with felt sole and a sock-like top that came up about as high as an athletic sock.  Unfortunately, I haven’t been able to find them since Tevas and the water slippers came out.  Now I wear the neoprene/felt boots all year. Mary Shaw

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Prijon makes a kayaking shoe which I hear is awfully expensive ($150?). They’re red/yellow and look really funny, and I was way jealous of my companions who had them on our last portage fest. cheers, scott smay

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 (Jon Beck) writes:  (David Elliott) writes:

  I’m looking for suggestions on whitewater footwear?    Nothing I’ve ever used comes close to Tevas. I use the original model  with the thong between 1st and 2nd toes, as they’re much more secure  on the foot. I’ve used Tevas for years but just got a pair of Alps at REI.  They stay on better and seem just as sticky.  The price was about the same. bob maccione..

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I’m looking for suggestions on whitewater footwear? Nothing I’ve ever used comes close to Tevas. I use the original model with the thong between 1st and 2nd toes, as they’re much more secure on the foot. In the summer, I wear them alone. In cold weather, I wear one-toed neoprene socks from Northwest River Supply under them. In *cold* weather, I wear them over my sewn-in drysuit feet. Jon Beck, SoRReL Project GRA

        I prefer ALPS sandals, since they have adjustable plastic buckles rather than Velcro.  The Velcro on my Tevas would give up when they got covered in sand or mud (fills up the loops).  Also, the Velcro will pull loose when you rub the foot against something, or have to swim/wade strong currents.  Your mileage may vary. — Brad Whitehurst    |   Aerospace Research Lab

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What about Tevas (or clones)?  Actual Tevas have soles made by 5.10, my clones (Boulder Sandal Company) are still pretty good.

I’ve tried my Tevas in the boat, but I’m not happy with them for two reasons: 1. The soles don’t flex very much (compared to the wetsuit booties I usually use) making it difficult to maneuver my feet around.  It’s not easy to get them off the footbraces and into the "rest" position I use for drifting. But that’s not much of a big deal compared to… 2. I’m concerned that the straps on the Tevas might catch on the footbraces at just the wrong time.  If I had bulkhead-style footbraces, this wouldn’t be an issue; but with the Yakima pegs it could be a problem. —Rsk

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I prefer the neoprene boots.  I understand that the instructors at NOC like the Alps for much of what they do, except for kayaking.  They apparently are concerned with snagging the straps on footbraces, tree limbs, etc.

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David Elliott: I’m looking for suggestions on whitewater footwear? My current favorite is the Deep See zippered boot ..

This is what I use.  They work great.  I have the Coral Kings. If its real slippery rock, go barefoot. A couple of people have suggested rock climbing shoes.

Don’t work when they are wet, and are expensive ~100 clams. Ilana Stern: …and not enough of a sole [rock climbing shoes] to push against footpegs.

This doesn’t wash, I kayak barefoot all the time. What about Tevas (or clones)?

Soles don’t bend very well to fit into kayaks.  I find them uncomfortable in kayaks, but wear them all the time otehrwise. –Chris

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I’m looking for suggestions on whitewater footwear? A couple of people have suggested rock climbing shoes.  Has anyone (anyone who doesn’t work at SGI, that is tried this?  How much do these cost?  How well do they grip both wet and dry rocks?  Are they comfortable enough to wear on long trips (both long days and overnighters)?

Ack!  Expensive, uncomfortable, and not enough of a sole to push against footpegs.  I suppose Five-Tennies would be a possibility — they’re snug sneakers made by the climbing shoe company 5.10, and they have a sole made of climbing-shoe rubber.  Dry rocks they grip fine, wet rocks…a bit better than sneakers, but not great.  They are about $58-$70 depending on sales.  By way of contrast, climbing shoes, which strike me as being the ultimate in inappropriate footwear for rafting or kayaking, are rarely less than $100.   Any other suggestions?  It might be useful to put together a chart based on weather and river conditions, so include that type of information.

What about Tevas (or clones)?  Actual Tevas have soles made by 5.10, my clones (Boulder Sandal Company) are still pretty good. I wear them over Ragg socks when it’s cold (I have the kind that don’t stick something between toes).   — /        Ilana Stern DoD#009 | Whoever first said, "Things are seldom as they

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I’m looking for suggestions on whitewater footwear? My current favorite is the Deep See zippered boot (similar to the Ocean Edge, but better for us folks with wide feet), which is great until you need to scout in slippery gorges.  I even have a larger pair of these that I can use in the colder season when I need to wear extra socks. I’ve also tried standard athletic shoes with various types of socks (from polyester to neoprene), and these are no better for me on rocks or in the river, and aren’t as warm to me. A couple of people have suggested rock climbing shoes.  Has anyone (anyone who doesn’t work at SGI, that is tried this?  How much do these cost?  How well do they grip both wet and dry rocks?  Are they comfortable enough to wear on long trips (both long days and overnighters)? Any other suggestions?  It might be useful to put together a chart based on weather and river conditions, so include that type of information.

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