Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing » Harry Potter trip report…..

Harry Potter trip report…..

Question:

Took the little lady out of school today to see Harry Potter (you are only young once). Saw the first showing in town. Wasn’t bad, a good kids movie. They did however show the trailers for Lord of the Rings….looks good. Real good….may have to dust off an old brownie recipe and pretend I’m in college again….read ‘em in college don’t you know….(yup, got me an eddycation) john

Response:

Check out the scenery.. it was shot in New Zealand by a New Zealand director.. "Lord of the rings" fever has struck some parts LOL. Clark

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Took the little lady out of school today to see Harry Potter (you are only young once). Saw the first showing in town. Wasn’t bad, a good kids movie. They did however show the trailers for Lord of the Rings….looks good. Real good….may have to dust off an old brownie recipe and pretend I’m in college again….read ‘em in college don’t you know….(yup, got me an eddycation) john

Response:

Check out the scenery.. it was shot in New Zealand by a New Zealand director.. "Lord of the rings" fever has struck some parts LOL. Clark

Hell, you’ve picked up on a Canadian national sport – spotting the Montreal, Toronto, or Vancouver street landmarks in "NY street scene" movies. (X-files is/was shot in Vancouver, for example.) Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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I have to admit I’m really looking forward to that one. It appears pretty well done. Rereading "Fellowship" right now Gollum snatched his fish by hand you know, and ate ‘em raw…

Response:

Gollum snatched his fish by hand you know, and ate ‘em raw…

Unethical!!!! George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

Response:

They did however show the trailers for Lord of the Rings….looks good. Real good….

Blesssss us and splasssh us, me precioussssessss…we can hardly wait. Counting the days till this release. I’ve been waiting years for someone to do a worthy version. BTW, saw David Mamet’s new one "Heist" tonight. Strongly recommend to all fans of his writing. He gives Devito has a phone conversation that almost rivals the "fucking Ruthie…" speech from "American Buffalo". Zippy Who can’t imagine the size of the checking accounts of the Harry Potter owner’s after this weekend.

Response:

Took the little lady out of school today to see Harry Potter (you are only young once). Saw the first showing in town. Wasn’t bad, a good kids movie.

Saw it this afternoon and thoroughly enjoyed it. Still like the books better though. They did however show the trailers for Lord of the Rings….looks good. Real good….may have to dust off an old brownie recipe and pretend I’m in college again….read ‘em in college don’t you know….(yup, got me an eddycation)

This one has me worried. Hard to imagine anyone doing justice to the books. Wolfgang

Response:

They did however show the trailers for Lord of the Rings….looks good. Real good….may have to dust off an old brownie recipe and pretend I’m in college again….read ‘em in college don’t you know….(yup, got me an eddycation) This one has me worried. Hard to imagine anyone doing justice to the books. Wolfgang

It has to be better than the Bakshi rotoscoped abortion, or the cutesy Rankin and Bass animations. From the trailers I’ve seen and the production photos on the web site, it looks like they are doing a great job. Shooting in NZ was a great idea – the mountains really look like the Misty Mountains. They are doing all three books – "The Two Towers" next year and "Return of the King" in 2003, so at least they’re going to follow the story sequence at the grossest level. Obviously they have to do a lot of story compression to meet the movie time limitations, but the word from the fan sites is that they are making a good attempt at completeness. They did omit Tom Bombadil though – I liked the idea of a hippy living in the woods of Middle Earth. I went to see Harry Potter last night. The visualizations were excellent – it was eerie how well the film matched the picture in my head. Hagrid was perfect. The only complaint I have is the movie’s pacing. It was very episodic – which in retrospect is very like the book. That’s the big difference between the media I guess – chapterization works well in book format, but you expect a movie to flow better. They did manage to fit in most of the content of the book into the 2.5 hours. My youngest son refused to go because he didn’t want to mess up the pictures in his imagination (he’s still reading book 3). –Stan (looking forward to getting my Gandalf soda flask at Burger King)

Response:

I read it instead of studying for my first semester freshman year finals. Still managed to pass everything ok, but it was all down hill from there. I was dreading the movie: I didn’t want my images of the story destroyed.

It’s interesting to hear how many people feel this way. I just asked a question on a Tolkien newsgroup. I can’t believe how many people are totally into the intricate details of that story and history, and how many people are upset that such a "holy" book is being put on film.

Response:

They did omit Tom Bombadil though – I liked the idea of a hippy living in the woods of Middle Earth.

Willi Bombadil – Master of Whitheywindle trout!

Response:

The best course of action is to first see the movie and THEN read the book. That way, you don’t have to work so hard to make up the imagery.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s interesting to hear how many people feel this way. I just asked a question on a Tolkien newsgroup. I can’t believe how many people are totally into the intricate details of that story and history, and how many people are upset that such a "holy" book is being put on film. For me, it’s not that the book is somehow "holy" but that it is a fantasy tale, I created pretty strong images of the fantasy when I read the books, and I know that they will be erased if I see the movie: I can’t make the images coexist. I have felt the same way about other books & movies based on them, though I do feel stronger about this one.

It’s a common enough feeling. And, of course, there is nothing holy about The Lord of the Rings. However, Tolkien was blessed with a rare ability to create a believable (I was about to delete that word and replace it with "plausible" but have decide to let it stand) world and evoke very powerful images of what that world must look like. Add to this the well known fact that a two hour long film can virtually never do justice to a book with which a reader lives for days or weeks, even under the best of circumstances, and it’s easy enough to see why many a fan would be wary. And then too, many readers, like myself, were introduced to Tolkien at a relatively young age. The images brought forth (and they are VERY powerful ones) have had time to seep deep into the consciousness. Rereadings in later life will doubtless alter those images, but not radically. More likely, they will simply reinforce them. Not a thing to be tampered with lightly. Wolfgang who will go to see the movie but will NOT promise to like it.

Response:

snip< I was also wondering what this has to do with Fly Fishing. Looks like a hanging curve ball, out over the plate….. Batter up.

That post can’t be for real. I mean I know pinheads like that exist but telling folks to read their Bible on ROFF ? I suspect an rdean spoof. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Funny thing I never take my kids out of school to subject them to a movie that is made to seem alright for kids. It involves sorcery and black magic. Do you think this is the kind of things kids should be watching. Oh it seems harmless as a movie but that is exactly the way they want it to be. Thats what draws kids in and seems interesting to them. It is apparent that you do not think much about where you will go after you leave this world. If I were you I would look into my Bible, If not for yourself do it for your children. I don’t mean to bust your chops so much but this is not the type of thing to take your kids to see. I was also wondering what this has to do with Fly Fishing. Since this is a Fly Fishing newsgroup anyway.

I personally wouldn’t take kids out of school to see any movie, but any action that pisses off the thumpers can’t be all bad. Way to go John. :-) Get a life "Maw". - Ken

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I’d rather see a movie version of "Bored of the Rings", actually. I’ll stick with the books for the ‘real thing’. — Charlie…

One can hope. Given the success of parody movies like "Scary Movie", if the first LOTR movie is successful, a "National Lampoon’s: Bored of the Rings" might just happen. I lost my copy of BOTR many years ago, and a year ago I located a used copy on the Internet so my sons would not be deprived. I found a few good links which have festered in my favorites folder since then. Here’s a good one – this guy thought that the ending looked rushed, and so wrote an additional chapter to round it out. For those folks who don’t or can’t have a full copy of BOTR, this might give you a taste for the full book. http://junior.apk.net/~drushel/b_scour.html –Stan

Response:

I lost my copy of BOTR many years ago, and a year ago I located a used copy on the Internet so my sons would not be deprived.

Thanks for the link. I still have my original paperback but it’s pretty tattered. I found a decent copy in a used book store in San Rafael when I was in CA a few years ago (along with some of Gamov’s Mr. Tompkins books – it was a pretty good bookstore) and have passed it along to my sons as well. — Charlie…

Response:

(along with some of Gamov’s Mr. Tompkins books – it was a pretty good

bookstore) And I learn something new every day. I had never heard of these, so I googled Mr. Tompkins. I suppose those books had just lost their utility by the 60s – there was a lot more popularization of math and physics by then and I grew up on Asimov and Martin Gardner.

Response:

snip< I was also wondering what this has to do with Fly Fishing. Since this is a Fly Fishing newsgroup anyway.

Looks like a hanging curve ball, out over the plate….. Batter up. Joe F.

Response:

And I learn something new every day. I had never heard of these, so I googled Mr. Tompkins. I suppose those books had just lost their utility by the 60s – there was a lot more popularization of math and physics by then and I grew up on Asimov and Martin Gardner.

I read them first, I think, in my early teens and re-encountered them in the late ’60s/earky ’70s in grad school. My research advisor had some and I thought it was pretty interesting to re-read them. — Charlie…

Response:

(along with some of Gamov’s Mr. Tompkins books – it was a pretty good bookstore) And I learn something new every day. I had never heard of these, so I googled Mr. Tompkins. I suppose those books had just lost their utility by the 60s – there was a lot more popularization of math and physics by then and I grew up on Asimov and Martin Gardner.

If I’m not mistaken, George Gamow was the guy who coined the word "google" (10^100) and googleplex (10^google). Now it’s a verb.

Response:

Right. The Bible is where you’ll find the really serious sorcery and black magic.

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Rereadings in later life will doubtless alter those images, but not radically. More likely, they will simply reinforce them. Not a thing to be tampered with lightly.

Looks like you’ve started a manic phase, Wolfgang.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I read it instead of studying for my first semester freshman year finals. Still managed to pass everything ok, but it was all down hill from there. I was dreading the movie: I didn’t want my images of the story destroyed. It’s interesting to hear how many people feel this way. I just asked a question on a Tolkien newsgroup. I can’t believe how many people are totally into the intricate details of that story and history, and how many people are upset that such a "holy" book is being put on film.

People can get pretty obscessive about the Tolkien books. When I went to college back in the the Eocene I was into the books in a big way. Went to a meeting of the "Tolkien Society" or some such name. There were some seriously disturbed individuals there. Some had adopted names and personas from the books and kept them while living in the outside world. You would see "Strider" stalking about campus in his cape and if you dared to call him his real name you would be viciously ignored. "Galadriel" would flounce around the library in her elvish garb. Actually, they fit in pretty well with Madison circa 1971. G.Cleveland

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We were in the dorm playing the Hobbitt and I was into watching the fire trails of the flaming bolts of lightning produced by the big kitchen matches that I, as Gandalf, sent coursing over the heads of the trolls and demons who were pounding at the shower curtain door of my house when I caught the towels on fire….what a trip. john

Response:

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Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing » live bait harness

live bait harness

Question:

Al, you are inviting PETA here? That is tantamount to inviting meowers here. Sometimes you are amusing, but now you have gone too far, if this is your intent. — Go Fishing. And may your fish be as big as your tales. Columbia, SC Lake Murray

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was at walmart last night and i didn’t see Steve (Stoner Lake) there. Walmart is quite the place for tackle. I was looking for live bait harnesses. Couldn’t find any. Probably because there isn’t a big market for them. Is there any instrucions anywhere how to make them for frogs, crickets, grasshoppers, hellgramights, crayfish etc. Also is part of the aversion to livebait the fact that you are sacrificing livebait for fishing. But fishing is hooking fish so what’s the big deal i was wondering what Peta types would think of it. Al

Response:

Bob writes: Al, you are inviting PETA here? That is tantamount to inviting meowers here. Sometimes you are amusing, but now you have gone too far, if this is your intent. — Go Fishing. And may your fish be as big as your tales. Columbia, SC Lake Murray

Bob If i feel like it I’ll invite a peta type who is also a jetskier. How does that grab you? Al

Response:

I was looking for live bait harnesses. Couldn’t find any. Probably because there isn’t a big market for them. Is there any instrucions anywhere how to make them for frogs, crickets, grasshoppers, hellgramights, crayfish etc.

OK Al, here’s something that will help you out, I found it in an outdoor magazine. The entire ad is as follows: "Bait Stick" is a stretchy, sticky glue that will attach live insects to a hook. Wrap a match-head-sized glob on a hook and touch the glue to an ant, salmon egg…whatever. The bug won’t die because the glue is non-toxic; instead, the insect will thrash and kick around. Can you think of a better fish attractant? The glue never dries out and continues to work underwater. Insects will even stay attached when being cast with a fly rod. ($7.50; 734-676-7772) There, now quit worrying about finding a harness to fish your live bait from. Call the phone number, part with $7.50 US and go feed some fish. Also is part of the aversion to livebait the fact that you are sacrificing

livebait for fishing. But fishing is hooking fish so what’s the big deal The aversion has nothing to do with "sacrificing" livebait. The aversion lies in the fact that often times while fishing livebait, a fish is gut hooked, rendering them unreleasable, or if you do, there is a strong possibility that the fish will die. If you are paying attention to the overall attitude of the members of this newsgroup, you will notice that the majority of us would rather fish, catching and releasing them to enjoy another day. I’m sure that most of us release in excess of 90% of the fish we catch. It’s harder to do when the fish are gut hooked as happens more often when fishing livebait. Also, many members feel that there is more skill involved in fooling a fish into striking an artificial than to feed livebait to a bass. To many of us, it’s not the actual fish being caught, it’s the process of getting the strike in the first place that trips our triggers. And if you don’t understand that, maybe you should take up golf. i was wondering what Peta types would think of it.

My thoughts on what PETA types would think of it??? Who cares??? —

Response:

I was at walmart last night and i didn’t see Steve (Stoner Lake) there. Walmart is quite the place for tackle. I was looking for live bait harnesses. Couldn’t find any. Probably because there isn’t a big market for them. Is there any instrucions anywhere how to make them for frogs, crickets, grasshoppers, hellgramights, crayfish etc. Also is part of the aversion to livebait the fact that you are sacrificing livebait for fishing. But fishing is hooking fish so what’s the big deal i was wondering what Peta types would think of it. Al

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lso is part of the aversion to livebait the fact that you are sacrificing livebait for fishing. But fishing is hooking fish so what’s the big deal i was wondering what Peta types would think of it. Al

Hello Albert, Have you ever had a mess of crickets get loose n your truck or had earthworms bust out in your fridge and crawl on the meatloaf or had a minnow jump out the bucket and wedge his way underneath the seat where he would stay and stink for Tommy Rilee

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Tom No i have never had that happen to me. I’ve heard the fridge thing before. Rotting minnows under a seat make a fishing boat smell like what it should smell like. I’m not afraid of the bait or getting my hands dirty. If your afraid of the bait how are you with the fish. It’s best to think like your quarry (fish) then you will have no qualms about the bait. Al

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Al, if you try and analyze what the PETA people think, it’ll drive you crazy, because they are crazy. I’m not any proponent of hurting animals needlessly, and would never do it purposely. I used to hunt (a lot when younger) and fished both then and now, and it doesn’t bother me to eat what I shot or caught, which meant having to dispatch them. PETA nuts equate the equality of animals to people. I don’t. That includes live bait. If you’re interested in live bait harnesses, you can probably find them on line at BPS or Cabela’s. Warren2

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Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » River Fly Fishing » Fly fishing in SE Minnesota

Fly fishing in SE Minnesota

Question:

Greetings all, I am planning on taking my son on some fishing trips here in the next few weeks; he is relatively young and just starting in fishing. We are planning on going to the South-East corner of Minnesota for the trips but we are somewhat new to the area and not familiar with the rivers and streams. I would like to find a river or stream that we camp nearby for a night or two and that he can fish in while I can also do some fly fishing (preferable within walking distance of the camp.) Does anyone know of any places like this in the area that they could recommend to us? We would greatly appreciate any information that we get. Thanks….

Response:

… Does anyone know of any places like this in the area that they could recommend to us? …

Whitewater State Park. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

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Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Flyfishing » wt and length of leader

wt and length of leader

Question:

I have read that it is a good idea to attach a short length of monofilament to the end of one’s line and finishing it with a perfection loop. This would enable one to attach (and exchange) different leaders without having to tie a knot (loop to loop) and saves the end of the fly line from repeated clippings. I would like to know two things: 1. Who uses this and do you like it? 2. What length and pound test of mono would you suggest for a 5wt fly line? Thanks in advance for your help. JB

Response:

JB, I used to use a perfection loop but changed last year when I realized that 98% of any windknots I got were wrapped around the loop connection. I now tie on a 12"-18" section of heavy (20#) mono directly to the end of the fly line using a blood knot, then tie in a knotless leader one size under my desired tippet (again with a blood knot), then finally tie in a tippet of the desired length and weight using either a surgeons knot or another blood knot. When the tippet needs replaced I just snip off just behind the last knot and tie in another length. The leader is handled the same way. When the heavy mono gets below six inches I snip it off just behind the knot and tie in again. While this does cause some loss of the fly line it is very little, less than a inch last year. I figure by the time I get to the point where it interferes with the geometry of the fly line it will be time to replace the line anyway. When I first started this I got a spool of 10# mono and practiced tying blood knots while watching TV or listening to the stereo. I had always avoided tying the blood knot as it appeared difficult and clumsy but after a week of practicing during TV or stereo I was tying them without looking. Overall this system has been easy for me to use and its reduced my windknots by maybe 50%. Just my experience. Regards, Don – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have read that it is a good idea to attach a short length of monofilament to the end of one’s line and finishing it with a perfection loop. This would enable one to attach (and exchange) different leaders without having to tie a knot (loop to loop) and saves the end of the fly line from repeated clippings. I would like to know two things: 1. Who uses this and do you like it? 2. What length and pound test of mono would you suggest for a 5wt fly line? Thanks in advance for your help. JB

Response:

______ If you will TRASH that loop to loop connection because you’re so lazy to do it right, your delivery will be most assured and up town as a serious fly fisherman. Need I be more blunt?

No, but you might try saying it in English. — Levi Life is anything that dies when you stomp on it. — Dave Barry

Response:

Don, Thanks for the advice, I appreciate you sharing your experience and I will give your method a try. Kind of you to help, thanks again. EJB

Response:

EJB I agree with Don and do it exactly the same way he does. I use the same poundage lines too. If I were writing the first reply, it would have been the same as Don’s Good luck! Bob

Response:

I use a loop-to-loop connection between leader and tippet only if the tippet is 4lb test or higher. A good knot will distribute the stress over several wraps of monofilament. A loop to loop connection is just line against line. In most cases, I’ll tie on a tippet with a surgeon’s knot. Mu

Response:

______ If you will TRASH that loop to loop connection because you’re so lazy to do it right, your delivery will be most assured and up town as a serious fly fisherman. Need I be more blunt? — Mr.G http://www.gink.com/ Updates http://www.gink.com/chat Flyfishing Conversations 6:00 PM PST till after midnight.

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Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fish » Harrison, Faulkner, & Miller (MAAL)

Harrison, Faulkner, & Miller (MAAL)

Question:

"In alphabetical order …. " You might want to check your order. Allan

Response:

In alphabetical order, I think a new law firm should be set up in Montana by three such men that need a change in life and a serious move into happy trout country. I.E. "HARRISON, FAULKNER & MILLER" the Legal Maulers of Montana would have a thriving practice and they could fly fish every lunch hour if they so choose. I would even donate my services in exchange for theirs. It would certainly be of equal value! Billings Montana is a serious location including, Helena and Missoula or even Hamilton Montana. I only wonder how good they would look in a Western Stetson? Of course they may always try Jackson Hole and compete with Jerry Spence! CSG (chuckle, sneer, grin!) Mr. G. — http://www.gink.com/chat

Response:

"In alphabetical order …. " You might want to check your order. Allan

; ) Mr. G. GOTCHA! — http://www.gink.com/chat

Response:

; ) Mr. G. GOTCHA!

See how often the gnome will dip into the same sorry little bag to cover his lame ass? GOTCHERSELF!!

Response:

See how often the gnome will dip into the same sorry little bag to cover his lame ass? GOTCHERSELF!!

______ Your breeding is showing. Sad. Mr. G. — http://www.gink.com/chat

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Wolfgang writes: ; ) Mr. G. GOTCHA! See how often the gnome will dip into the same sorry little bag to cover his lame ass? GOTCHERSELF!!

Bwwwhahahahahaha. ROFLEO. So very, very true, Wolf. The twits of this world will never change. d;0) Dave L.

Response:

Whooops! Guess I rose to the bait …. er, fly.

Response:

"In alphabetical order …. " You might want to check your order.

things ain’t always rational in Bizarro world. Myxtplk

Response:

You ought to be careful here George, somebody who uses the word bastard as often as you do, not to mention all the other choice language you occasionally come out with, really should refrain from comment on breeding. I fear you may know how it occurs, but not what it means. — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

_______ Gee Mike, that term was not used by me in THIS thread, but I see your point and you’re right. I do know, as a matter of fact, what you mean for I may have sired all the bottom dwellers here. I guess some of us have a talent for such things but look at the fun they’re having!? I will refrain from commenting on what you have aptly pointed out in the future. What would I do without you Mike? You’re a great guy who is always looking after me. I am a blessed man, Your pal, George Gehrke Beware! Do not feed the Bottom Dwellers! — http://www.gink.com

Response:

I suppose I ought to comment on this thread even though I don’t know why. Well, I sure as hell wouldn’t mind practicing with these guys, particularly in Montana. Although we’d all be working the overnight shift at Ole’s so we could fish all day, so the law degree becomes superfilous anyway. Mark Faulkner – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing Flies » New guy, but not newbie

New guy, but not newbie

Question:

playing the fish I was shocked to discover a Channel Catfish (~3 lbs.) on the end of my line!! I have never seen a catfish take a fly, but was even more astounded that it had taken a dry fly!!

Thanks for the post David.From another flatlander.I too am adicted to bluegills on a 3-weight.(you can’t have too many good 3-weight rods.)I enjoy taking catfish on my 3-weight rods, but have not been able to figure out how to do it on a more than once in a while basis and then seldom on the surface.My experience is that they are hell on leaders, but who cares after a 20 minute fight? Big Dale PS My latest 3 weight Scott purchased from E-Bay was delivered by the postman yesterday. I had a good visit with the postman who is another flyfisherman. Should be on my favorite bluegill pond about daybreak to check out the new rod.

Response:

which I am only able to read. So maybe you can tell us… Which came first?

I am sure Indian Joe will be able to give first hand knowledge to George. God would’nt you like to be a fly on the wall at that event!!!!! Big Dale

Response:

Lurking for 4 years!!?? Man, you must have the patience of a saint to stay out of some of these threads. This past Tuesday I returned from a 7 day trip to Alaska, to find over 1,000 posts accumulated here on ROFF….I read most of them. (certain people on here are always worth reading) After reading, it once again became clear to me why I am still here after nearly 5 years, this damned NG is not only enlightening, but entertaining as well. If you want or need a comparison with a similar to that group too for more than 5 years. This is a ‘moderated’ group, with the listowner who controls the content, ie: no flame wars, keep the to dress up, put on my Sunday best and behave while I’m there. Over here, HA! just amble on in wearing nothing but my boxers and a 3 day it’s just that this motley bunch has much more to offer in the way of entertainment value. To quote our Mr G…"God, I love this place!" — Frank Church Elkhart, IN USAF RET.

|Greetings. I have been lurking in this group for about 4 years, but |have been completely satisfied with just reading the different posts. |Now I am ready to join in the melee with a report of my own. | |Being a flatlander my main quarry is the largemouth bass and the |bluegill, and the other night (after work) I felt the need to bend a |rod. I went to a local farm pond to catch a few bluegill. I grabbed |my trusty 3 wt. and the appropriate boxes of flies to go after some |wary bluegill. I tied on a sponge spider and immediately caught |several bluegill. I decided to change flies and selected a Madame X |to see if I could entice more bluegill to jump on my line. | |Imagine my surprise when my rod almost came out of my hands. Before I |knew what was happening my rod was bent over and my pile of slack line |was beginning to disappear! I knew I had a larger fish and figured it |was a bass. The problem was I didn’t know how big and whether, or |not, it would break my 1.5 pound tippet. After 20 minutes, or so, of |playing the fish I was shocked to discover a Channel Catfish (~3 lbs.) |on the end of my line!! I have never seen a catfish take a fly, but |was even more astounded that it had taken a dry fly!! | |I guess it just goes to show that fly fishing is always an adventure. |BTW, the bluegill action continued until dark once I got over the |shock of catching the catfish. | |David R. Felter |"The mind is like a parachute. It doesn’t work if it’s not opened." |

Response:

Love it! I have seen and caught catfish on a fly – nymph fished extremely slow on the bottom though. It is a rare occurrence.

During the whitefly hatch in July and August on the Susquehanna river, catching catfish on drys and emergers is fairly common, although I have never caught one of the big cats I know are in the river when fishing on the surface. After a while you can tell the difference between a catfish rise and a smallmouth rise and target either species. The catfish fight more like an old tire – no match for the smallies. Mark Faulkner

Response:

Lurking for 4 years!!?? Man, y

Frank, did ya catch any in AK? –Walt

Response:

I have been using the Madame X tied in black on a size 10 hook in late summer and early fall for the past several years. It is *very* effective on trout from early September until the first hard frost. I think it represents a cricket, but it might just be an attactor. I havn’t tried it on warmwater fish, but I suspect it would be deadly on bass and sunfish. George Adams

Response:

Lurking for 4 years!!?? Man, you must have the patience of a saint to stay out of some of these threads.

<snipped It has tried my patience occassionally, but two little girls were taking too much of my time to get involved in a good (?) C&R discussion, or whether George was spamming, or fishing has become too high tech, or whether a seperate tying news group is a good idea (going back a couple of years), etc. :-) Anyway the girls are older and I have a _little_ more free time to become involved in the discussions. So watch out! :-) David R. Felter "The mind is like a parachute. It doesn’t work if it’s not opened."

Response:

It has tried my patience occassionally, but two little girls were taking too much of my time to get involved in a good (?) C&R discussion, or whether George was spamming, or fishing has become too high tech, or whether a seperate tying news group is a good idea (going back a couple of years), etc. :-)

You do go back a ways. The fact that you’re still here should be, well, disturbing to your family and friends. Anyway the girls are older and I have a _little_ more free time to become involved in the discussions. So watch out! :-)

I have two girls who were little once, but quite mysteriously have become young women who need to be shielded from certain attorneys in the old north state, lest their hearts be forever captured. Anyhow, enjoy their presence now for they are too soon gone. Mark Faulkner – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

you know, markey, i meant to talk with you about those little rascals; i mean, where could be the harm in a couple picture exchanges and a few nights reading the advance sheets together… wayno, who wouldn’t *dare*. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Love it! I have seen and caught catfish on a fly – nymph fished extremely slow on the bottom though. It is a rare occurrence. Now the important question – What’s the pattern for the MadamX? I know rubberlegs tend to drive Bluegill crazy. — Bill Endicott – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Greetings. I have been lurking in this group for about 4 years, but have been completely satisfied with just reading the different posts. Now I am ready to join in the melee with a report of my own. Being a flatlander my main quarry is the largemouth bass and the bluegill, and the other night (after work) I felt the need to bend a rod. I went to a local farm pond to catch a few bluegill. I grabbed my trusty 3 wt. and the appropriate boxes of flies to go after some wary bluegill. I tied on a sponge spider and immediately caught several bluegill. I decided to change flies and selected a Madame X to see if I could entice more bluegill to jump on my line. Imagine my surprise when my rod almost came out of my hands. Before I knew what was happening my rod was bent over and my pile of slack line was beginning to disappear! I knew I had a larger fish and figured it was a bass. The problem was I didn’t know how big and whether, or not, it would break my 1.5 pound tippet. After 20 minutes, or so, of playing the fish I was shocked to discover a Channel Catfish (~3 lbs.) on the end of my line!! I have never seen a catfish take a fly, but was even more astounded that it had taken a dry fly!! I guess it just goes to show that fly fishing is always an adventure. BTW, the bluegill action continued until dark once I got over the shock of catching the catfish. David R. Felter "The mind is like a parachute. It doesn’t work if it’s not opened." ______ GREAT! Thanks for sharing it. The Madam X was invented by John Foust and I sat right next to him while WE tied it together. He would ask, "What do you think of this?" And, I’d say, tie it all forward, bring it back to make the head and the wings will explode . . . and he did. John thought of adding the rubber legs. Then we later went to the B-52 for the big salmon fly hatch on the Bitterroot. Yes, John is a marvelous fly tier but I did help him create it, which is of great pride to me. But John Foust deserves 95% of doing it all by himself. He sure turned into a pretty good fly fisherman. I have stories of John that will tickle your funny bone. His is a funny man and a very smart one also. George — Mr. G. ‘all’s fair with fur or feather’ http://216.55.26.157/vchat/ http://www.gink.com http://www.rodbuilding.com (Bamboo Is Fun) http://www.xink.com 509-243-4100 or 5500

Author: admin on
Category: Fly Fishing Flies
Tags: Fly Fishing Flies

Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing » Is it a Jeep thing, or a "sheep" thing?

Is it a Jeep thing, or a "sheep" thing?

Question:

Now, what did you expect making a comment like that n a jeep ng…. What a weenie…

Response:

You don’t understand its a Jeep thing. — Its a Jeep thing..You would’t understand. URL: http://the-threshold.org/gallery/jeep OR Its an Anoraks thing.. You don’t want to understand URL: http://the-threshold.org/Anorak-Offroad

Response:

Lately, I hear many people who own Jeeps spouting… " What thing is it?" asks Jimmy. " It’s not ANYTHING," says the 4runner driver. "it’s just a damn car." —-Muskie

that was funny. Sorry guys and gals. I have to be a traitor on this one. I live in a college town. And here the average Jeep driver’s values and experiences have very little in line with me. Unless it’s clearly built or restored, it’s just another car. -ejs

Response:

Is this anything like "alternative music" ? —

Response:

Wow! If it isn’t Muskie the Wonder Troll returning to haunt our newsgroups! Lately, I hear many people who own Jeeps spouting out this phrase: "You wouldn’t understand man….it’s a Jeep thing!"

You still can’t get it right: "It’s a Jeep thing… you wouldn’t understand" is the phrase. Ok. I guess I don’t really get it. But I am starting to understand something about " the Jeep thing". It seems many(not all) Jeepers want to belong to a group of rugged individualists. They feel that having a rugged Jeep sets them apart from the rest of society and makes them "different" somehow. What is this? Words like "belong" and "group" and "individualists" really seem to contradict each other don’t they? It seems many Jeepers want to be different, just like all the different people.

Those that I have seen who have actually bestowed the phrase on their vehicle are generally those who actually take the vehicles off-road, go camping, lead an active life style, toss on a trailer of jet-ski’s or dirt bikes and actually have a life. These people go to the Jeep Jamboree’s, the Trail Runs, etc. They are far from ’sheep’ though a few to many people who are following the Jones’s unfortunately do buy them instead of mock-SUV’s like the Explorer. Modems.. the lightning rods of the ’90’s! (sigh) Don’t bother to E-mail.. not using my account.

Response:

How much would an Old Man Emu lift cost on an 86 cherokee? I am looking for ball park estimates on the ~3" lift reviewed on off-road.com (i think). Also, are there web sources for Old Man Emu ordering? Thanks, jeremiah — 86 cherokee – soon to be a 3.4 L V6!!!!

Response:

Lately, I hear many people who own Jeeps spouting out this phrase: "You wouldn’t understand man….it’s a Jeep thing!"

If your idiotic flame bait bothered me at all, you might be right… Motorcycles have the same cadre relationship. When you’re on a bike or a harley, almost *everybody* waves. It is no different, and I think anybody who buys a jeep or a bike only for the waves is going to be sorely disappointed. Besides, it IS a JEEP thing, and you CLEARLY DO NOT understand. at all… jeremiah — 86 cherokee – soon to be a 3.4 L V6!!!!

Response:

few to many people who are following the Jones’s unfortunately do buy them instead of mock-SUV’s like the Explorer.

I for one appreciate all the Yuppie’s buying new cherokees and TJs… I see it as fodder for myself in 5 or 6 years when I’ll be buying a used 99… just think of all those Yuppie jeeps as replacement parts. never seen the mud, never been bashed over rocks or seen any real duty. I think its just great. jeremiah — 86 cherokee – soon to be a 3.4 L V6!!!!

Response:

few to many people who are following the Jones’s unfortunately do buy them instead of mock-SUV’s like the Explorer. I for one appreciate all the Yuppie’s buying new cherokees and TJs… I see it as fodder for myself in 5 or 6 years when I’ll be buying a used 99… just think of all those Yuppie jeeps as replacement parts. never seen the mud, never been bashed over rocks or seen any real duty. I think its just great.

hehe, I must admit I never thought of it that way.. but I have thought of it as a way to keep the vehicles in production and to keep the prices somewhat down.. on the other hand the high demand has surged what should be an $18-22k vehicle up to nearly $40k.. almost a full half of which is profit for Chrysler. Modems.. the lightning rods of the ’90’s! (sigh) Don’t bother to E-mail.. not using my account.

Response:

HUH?! Where the hell is your point? Meanwhile, if you don’t understand – don’t bother trying. Obviously, you don’t own a Jeep, so there’s your first obstacle. The next is being a brand-loyal four-wheeler, where everybody who doesn’t drive you’re particular make of vehicle is pond-scum. And finally, you’re a little dissatisfied with whatever make of vehicle you’re driving (and a little envious of a Jeep) to take issue with something you don’t or want to understand. Get a life. I do think that we, as four-wheelers, need to recognize all makes and models as brethren and form an even larger following with a much more accurate motto: "It’s a 4×4 thing…you asphalt-bound grocery-getters certainly wouldn’t understand." Anybody with a purpose-built, fill-tilt-boogie off road rig (no matter what it is) gets a wave and nod-of-approval from me. Until then, it’s just us Jeepers… Eric ‘80 CJ-7 – 4" Pro Comp, 33×15.50 Swampers, and way too many other things to mention, ‘85 Nissan King Cab 4×4 – 31×10.50 AT’s, no lift, gets me to work and pulls the boat. — Opinions, everybody’s got one of those, too. You know how to Reply…

Response:

Muskie, Just when we thought Mr. Troll himself had finally gone away it slithers back in… I have a jeep because I always wanted one and I could care less who else has one. The jeep wave is a tradition, not really a club thing. I know, you don’t get it. What does "It’s a jeep thing" mean? It’s a diverse cultural association. I think you exemplify a jeep cultural disassociation when you wrote "it’s just a d*** car." That’s the difference. I doubt you’re bright enough to figure it out though. Don To avoid a flame war I must add. I am biased to jeeps but there are other manufacturers that build excellent vehicles. This retort is aimed specifically at Muskie and not other vehicle afficianados. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Lately, I hear many people who own Jeeps spouting out this phrase: "You wouldn’t understand man….it’s a Jeep thing!" Ok. I guess I don’t really get it. But I am starting to understand something about " the Jeep thing". It seems many(not all) Jeepers want to belong to a group of rugged individualists. They feel that having a rugged Jeep sets them apart from the rest of society and makes them "different" somehow. What is this? Words like "belong" and "group" and "individualists" really seem to contradict each other don’t they? It seems many Jeepers want to be different, just like all the different people. <really long boring story snipped Meanwhile, Jimmy is on a nearby forest road, about to park at a turnoff near a fishing stream. Jimmy drives a Chevy 4×4 full size. He parks his rig and takes his 6 foot fly rod case out of the bed, and unloads his gear. A man in a toyota 4runner drives by and waves. The man in the 4runner turns around to talk to the man about the fishing. " How do you like the full size chevy?" asks the 4runner driver. " I like it just fine". Jimmy responds. " how do you like your 4runner?" asks jimmy. " I like it just fine", says the 4runner driver. " What thing is it?" asks Jimmy. " It’s not ANYTHING," says the 4runner driver. "it’s just a damn car." —-Muskie

Response:

Well, when I see somebody in a 90-96 300ZX I certainly wave… Alex

[big snip]

Response:

No that would be a RAV4, CRV, etc… No one knows what the hell it is and what purpose it serves!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Lately, I hear many people who own Jeeps spouting out this phrase: "You wouldn’t understand man….it’s a Jeep thing!" Ok. I guess I don’t really get it. But I am starting to understand something about " the Jeep thing". You don’t understand its a Jeep thing. Is this anything like "alternative music" ? —

Response:

The only so called "jeepers" who really know what the "jeep thing" is, are the one’s who actually see the logic behind driving in the rain with a bikini and no doors as everyone looks at you thinking "you idiot, youre getting wet"! I’ll share that logic with you too……It’s FUN!!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Lately, I hear many people who own Jeeps spouting out this phrase: "You wouldn’t understand man….it’s a Jeep thing!" Ok. I guess I don’t really get it. But I am starting to understand something about " the Jeep thing". It seems many(not all) Jeepers want to belong to a group of rugged individualists. They feel that having a rugged Jeep sets them apart from the rest of society and makes them "different" somehow. What is this? Words like "belong" and "group" and "individualists" really seem to contradict each other don’t they? It seems many Jeepers want to be different, just like all the different people. Here comes Barbi Anne, driving her new pink Jeep onto the gravel national forest road. Ken is heading her way in his new blue Jeep, and he waves the "jeep wave" to Barbi. Barbi waves back, smiling and giggling. "I really belong" , thinks Barbi. " I really belong to a group of people that like me for my automobile purchase. I feel really good about that." Barbi Anne smiles a faint smile and continues down the road. A few seconds later, Outback Johnny passes Barbi Anne in his new green Jeep, and waves. Barbi Anne waves back. Continuing down the road, Barbi Anne responds to 34 waves from Jeepers. " It’s a Jeep thing!" they all yell at her. " It’s a Jeep thing!" Further down the road, Barbi Anne’s progress is temporarily halted by a herd of sheep crossing the road to greener pastures. She listens to their bleating and babbling, and observes how they all huddle together. "baaaaa…..baaaaaaaaa…bleeeeeeeet…….baaaaaaaaa". The sheep huddle even closer across the road. " baaaaaaaa…its a jeep thing….. ……bleeeeeettttt." The sheep babble even louder, then slowly pass over a low hill on the horizon. Barbi Anne drives her Jeep down the road, glad that she was pressured by friends to belong to the "Jeep Thing". Meanwhile, Jimmy is on a nearby forest road, about to park at a turnoff near a fishing stream. Jimmy drives a Chevy 4×4 full size. He parks his rig and takes his 6 foot fly rod case out of the bed, and unloads his gear. A man in a toyota 4runner drives by and waves. The man in the 4runner turns around to talk to the man about the fishing. " How do you like the full size chevy?" asks the 4runner driver. " I like it just fine". Jimmy responds. " how do you like your 4runner?" asks jimmy. " I like it just fine", says the 4runner driver. " What thing is it?" asks Jimmy. " It’s not ANYTHING," says the 4runner driver. "it’s just a damn car." —-Muskie

Response:

Wow, I guess you don’t understand. I for one have always loved the Wrangler, and I just bought my 98 TJ in June(having no knowledge of the "Jeep Thing" or the waves I would get from fellow Jeepers) I actually had to ask a friend who owns a YJ about the wave….he told me H wasn’t sure about it either. As soon as I hit 1500 miles, I was off the pavement, with the top and the door removed. I have no problem with any brand of 4X4, although I like some less than others But honestly, I have never seen another group of drivers as friendly with those they don’t know or as willing to help out when someone needs it. I’ve taken my stock(so far) jeep a few places a little above the level I should, and the one time I got stuck, I was still amazed how well it did. Ok, no more rambling…..I’m sure you’re sick of me by now

Response:

I had a jeep and I loved it thy are good for mud raceing and for what ever ** HAVE A NICE DAY LARRY & KAREN **

Response:

The jeeps I drove for many years were OD, that’s a different thing. The only thing now is Jeeps have become another temporary fad for the brtaibnless yuppies. This too soon will pass and jeeps will go back to being driven by real people who like them for what they are instead of a phoney status symbol. I can wait. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Lately, I hear many people who own Jeeps spouting out this phrase: "You wouldn’t understand man….it’s a Jeep thing!" Ok. I guess I don’t really get it. But I am starting to understand something about " the Jeep thing". It seems many(not all) Jeepers want to belong to a group of rugged individualists. They feel that having a rugged Jeep sets them apart from the rest of society and makes them "different" somehow. What is this? Words like "belong" and "group" and "individualists" really seem to contradict each other don’t they? It seems many Jeepers want to be different, just like all the different people. Here comes Barbi Anne, driving her new pink Jeep onto the gravel national forest road. Ken is heading her way in his new blue Jeep, and he waves the "jeep wave" to Barbi. Barbi waves back, smiling and giggling. "I really belong" , thinks Barbi. " I really belong to a group of people that like me for my automobile purchase. I feel really good about that." Barbi Anne smiles a faint smile and continues down the road. A few seconds later, Outback Johnny passes Barbi Anne in his new green Jeep, and waves. Barbi Anne waves back. Continuing down the road, Barbi Anne responds to 34 waves from Jeepers. " It’s a Jeep thing!" they all yell at her. " It’s a Jeep thing!" Further down the road, Barbi Anne’s progress is temporarily halted by a herd of sheep crossing the road to greener pastures. She listens to their bleating and babbling, and observes how they all huddle together. "baaaaa…..baaaaaaaaa…bleeeeeeeet…….baaaaaaaaa". The sheep huddle even closer across the road. " baaaaaaaa…its a jeep thing….. ……bleeeeeettttt." The sheep babble even louder, then slowly pass over a low hill on the horizon. Barbi Anne drives her Jeep down the road, glad that she was pressured by friends to belong to the "Jeep Thing". Meanwhile, Jimmy is on a nearby forest road, about to park at a turnoff near a fishing stream. Jimmy drives a Chevy 4×4 full size. He parks his rig and takes his 6 foot fly rod case out of the bed, and unloads his gear. A man in a toyota 4runner drives by and waves. The man in the 4runner turns around to talk to the man about the fishing. " How do you like the full size chevy?" asks the 4runner driver. " I like it just fine". Jimmy responds. " how do you like your 4runner?" asks jimmy. " I like it just fine", says the 4runner driver. " What thing is it?" asks Jimmy. " It’s not ANYTHING," says the 4runner driver. "it’s just a damn car." —-Muskie

Response:

I agree with this. The only problem is that it seems a number of the new Jeeps are automatics. Frankly, that’s sacrilege! — Cheers…Craig — Good manners and bad breath get you nowhere – Elvis Costello — It’s no use to blame the looking glass if your face is awry – S.J. Perelman — People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don’t realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world – Calvin (& Hobbes)

Response:

I often get asked if my Miata is a rental since I usually leave the top down unless it is absolutely pouring or I’m in stop/go traffic. Others don’t understand that Jeeps are waterproofed from the get-go, right down to a pair of drain holes in the floorboards! Ever wonder why most CJ and Wrangler variants didn’t even come with carpetting on the floors? Too bad it’s a hassle to take the doors off and front window down now.. (sigh) Modems.. the lightning rods of the ’90’s! (sigh) Don’t bother to E-mail.. not using my account.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve only had my ‘90 YJ for about 2years but …….here’s my two cents….about the "Its a jeep thing" motto I was a Boy Scout growing up, did alot of camping every summer, I was taught to respect nature, be resourceful, prepared, efficient while also being simple and functional. IMHO jeeps fit in very smoothly w/ my yuppie who only buys a jeep for the "image", and never takes it off roading….what a waste….. I dont remember where I read it, but another jeep owner made the observation that when cruising down the road/trail jeep owners inevitably always nod/wave/check out each others jeep, but you hardly ever/never see other people check out each others Metro/Toyota/Caprice/whatever……Jeeps have a tradition and jeep owners who humbly acknowledge this are the coolest. People who live by the "Its a Jeep thing motto", stop to help others out, dont drive recklessly, etc…..I think I’ll quit my rambling now……

Thank you for stating so eloquently what a lot of us are all about! Btw, I’m lucky enough to be a member of two very distinct ‘families’, the Jeep Family (by way of a lightly modded ‘93 ZJ V8 which has nearly 1/3rd of it’s 62,000 miles off road!) and the Miata club which, at least in off-road deprived Florida, is the more active and certainly more friendly of the two. I also fall under the helping hand column. Heck, it was only Friday afternoon that I helped a poor lady push her out of gas car half a mile down the road to get it off of the worst part of the freeway. :) You’re right.. some people just don’t get it. Modems.. the lightning rods of the ’90’s! (sigh) Don’t bother to E-mail.. not using my account.

Response:

damn muskie that was good. i haven`t had such a good laugh in a long time . the thoughts of you playing on the floor with your barbie & ken dolls in jeeps cracked me up. could you entertain us with something about " its a 4×4 thing " or " its a harley thing " or maybe a tough one like " its a man thing " ? but please dont use your ken & barbie dolls again, i couldn`t stand the laughter. Jim

Response:

<excellent commentary snipped Some Jeep drivers understand that. Nothing against Toyotas or Chevys or any other vehicle or the people that driver them…it’s just a Jeep thing.

Here’s one hint: Why does everyone in a CRV, Rav-4, Tracker, Sidekick, Samurai, etc. always say "We’ll take my Jeep" but no one in a Jeep would ever say "We’ll take my CRV, etc."? There is only one Jeep. Modems.. the lightning rods of the ’90’s! (sigh) Don’t bother to E-mail.. not using my account.

Response:

"You wouldn’t understand man….it’s a Jeep thing!" Ok. I guess I don’t really get it. But I am starting to understand something about " the Jeep thing". It seems many(not all) Jeepers want to belong to a group of rugged individualists. They feel that having a rugged Jeep sets them apart from the rest of society and makes them "different" somehow. What is this? Words like "belong" and "group" and "individualists" really seem to contradict each other don’t they? It seems many Jeepers want to be different, just like all the different people.

No, it’s true that you don’t understand but that’s okay. The sheep that you’re referring to might be the demographic majority of Jeep drivers, but those are not the people who wave at each other and say "It’s a Jeep thing." The "Jeep thing" element, you might find, has more disdain for "sorority Jeeps," "college Jeeps," "soccer mom Jeeps," "street jeeps" and "yuppie Jeeps" than anybody. Some people like F-14s and others would rather ride a P-38 or a P-51. Some people don’t know what a P-38 is, but they’ve seen Top Gun so they think they’re aviation enthusiasts. There are those that want to belong to a group of rugged individualists, and there are those that just do. (I’ll be modest here as I can, but as a pilot, rock singer, writer, computer geek, civil war reenactor and active environmentalist, I might not be rugged but I’m individualist…) Jeep was the first word I learned to spell, and I promised by grandfather when I was three that I would buy him a Jeep. Image had nothing to do with it. My oldest toy, a 1960s Tonka Jeep CJ3B, sits on my desk at work. Raise your hand if you had an infatuation with Nissan when you were three. The thing is, if you go over to the Jeep newsgroup, you’ll see that I’m not an exception…I’m average. Probably less that average if you pay attention to the complexity of knowledge of their vehicle that some people there have. You’ll also notice their head spin to look when they see a Willys other other vintage Jeep. It has nothing to do with the driver. Don’t think about the guy behind the wheel…think of the Jeep. Regardless of the year, a Jeep stripped of its hard top and doors is a classic. If you’ve ever driven through the country, tackled an ominous "intermediate" 4×4 trail with a stock Jeep or even just cruised the highway with the top off on a sunny day, you understand. If you’ve ever pulled off the side of the road on an August evening and looked straight up at a meteor shower, you’re getting there. If you’ve ever yanked a built-up vehicle out of a mudhole or driven your stock Jeep around a 4×4 bogged down on a snow-covered hill, you’re there. Not to trash other 4×4s…I’ve seen old Landcruisers and a heavily-modified Samurai command respect where lesser drivers in Jeeps failed…but why drive a flimsy, overpriced derivative when you can drive the real thing? There’s just nothing like climbing up into an old CJ and staring down the short nose. It has the feel of an old warbird…the sound of the engine, the smell of the Jeep, the feeling that you’ve strapped on wheels. It’s not the fault of Jeep drivers that these sturdy classics appear to have gone soft, but while middle America drives around the suburb in the Jeep equivalent of a sports car, those of us die-hard Jeep fans who have driven the new TJs have come to appreciate that under the cloth and plastic interior there is still a bad-ass trail truck that isn’t laden down with mystery parts and strange devices that prevent us from getting under them and making our own modifications. Some Jeep drivers understand that. Nothing against Toyotas or Chevys or any other vehicle or the people that driver them…it’s just a Jeep thing. Chris Gattman | "..And the sky is humming,

Response:

I’ve only had my ‘90 YJ for about 2years but …….here’s my two cents….about the "Its a jeep thing" motto I was a Boy Scout growing up, did alot of camping every summer, I was taught to respect nature, be resourceful, prepared, efficient while also being simple and functional. IMHO jeeps fit in very smoothly w/ my yuppie who only buys a jeep for the "image", and never takes it off roading….what a waste….. I dont remember where I read it, but another jeep owner made the observation that when cruising down the road/trail jeep owners inevitably always nod/wave/check out each others jeep, but you hardly ever/never see other people check out each others Metro/Toyota/Caprice/whatever……Jeeps have a tradition and jeep owners who humbly acknowledge this are the coolest. People who live by the "Its a Jeep thing motto", stop to help others out, dont drive recklessly, etc…..I think I’ll quit my rambling now…… –jason

Response:

Lately, I hear many people who own Jeeps spouting out this phrase: "You wouldn’t understand man….it’s a Jeep thing!" Ok. I guess I don’t really get it. But I am starting to understand something about " the Jeep thing". It seems many(not all) Jeepers want to belong to a group of rugged individualists. They feel that having a rugged Jeep sets them apart from the rest of society and makes them "different" somehow. What is this? Words like "belong" and "group" and "individualists" really seem to contradict each other don’t they? It seems many Jeepers want to be different, just like all the different people. Here comes Barbi Anne, driving her new pink Jeep onto the gravel national forest road. Ken is heading her way in his new blue Jeep, and he waves the "jeep wave" to Barbi. Barbi waves back, smiling and giggling. "I really belong" , thinks Barbi. " I really belong to a group of people that like me for my automobile purchase. I feel really good about that." Barbi Anne smiles a faint smile and continues down the road. A few seconds later, Outback Johnny passes Barbi Anne in his new green Jeep, and waves. Barbi Anne waves back. Continuing down the road, Barbi Anne responds to 34 waves from Jeepers. " It’s a Jeep thing!" they all yell at her. " It’s a Jeep thing!" Further down the road, Barbi Anne’s progress is temporarily halted by a herd of sheep crossing the road to greener pastures. She listens to their bleating and babbling, and observes how they all huddle together. "baaaaa…..baaaaaaaaa…bleeeeeeeet…….baaaaaaaaa". The sheep huddle even closer across the road. " baaaaaaaa…its a jeep thing….. ……bleeeeeettttt." The sheep babble even louder, then slowly pass over a low hill on the horizon. Barbi Anne drives her Jeep down the road, glad that she was pressured by friends to belong to the "Jeep Thing". Meanwhile, Jimmy is on a nearby forest road, about to park at a turnoff near a fishing stream. Jimmy drives a Chevy 4×4 full size. He parks his rig and takes his 6 foot fly rod case out of the bed, and unloads his gear. A man in a toyota 4runner drives by and waves. The man in the 4runner turns around to talk to the man about the fishing. " How do you like the full size chevy?" asks the 4runner driver. " I like it just fine". Jimmy responds. " how do you like your 4runner?" asks jimmy. " I like it just fine", says the 4runner driver. " What thing is it?" asks Jimmy. " It’s not ANYTHING," says the 4runner driver. "it’s just a damn car." —-Muskie

Response:

Author: admin on
Category: Fly Fishing
Tags: Fly Fishing

Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Trout Fly Fishing » Just wondering….

Just wondering….

Question:

says… Did I miss something? I don’t recall him admitting to be a PETA supporter/member. In fact, his fishing activities, be they what they may, are in direct conflict with the PETA agenda of outlawing *ALL* fishing. Hence, your statement about his credibility is your own misguided fallacy.

I figure that’s mostly Powseland’s doing. I’ve been around this board for a while and he never came out and said he supported anything PeTA advocates that I remember. Jim probably sees a PeTA member behind every rock. Like you, I found his general slant to be contrary to their agenda. Go figure. Things are a little dull with Tim absent. </c

Response:

I stand uncorrected, no mention of PETA. Tim admits to a love for animals….I have no problem with that. Do you have a problem with it? This all started with a c&r vs. c&k bs debate. Tim kills for his table….he’s not the first nor will he be the last. If you choose to release, good for you. If Tim kills, good for him as long as it is done legally. He claims to fish legally. I choose to do both this year. Last year I caught and released well over 1,000 trout and intentionally killed 0. I’m sure some later died from their "experience" with my fly. If you subscribe to the 15% mortality figure that is bandied about, than over 150 fish died for the sake of my selfish pleasure. This year I plan on enjoying some on my table and to slow down on the quantity c&r game. I know this decision will actually let more trout live….go figure…. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Did I miss something? I don’t recall him admitting to be a PETA supporter/member. Yes you missed it. I don’t have the time to dig it out of Deja News. Why don’t you? I would appreciate it greatly. To help you out, he admitted to it just before he left r.o.f.f. BTW, Moe Skeeter is alive and well in other newsgroups. Go to In fact, his fishing activities, be they what they may, are in direct conflict with the PETA agenda of outlawing *ALL* fishing. I suspect he once fished but gave it up years ago. He nows uses his past experience to dupe real anglers like yourself. I believe I found the article you are referring to, I’ll paste it below… For the record, it doesn’t say he is a PETA supporter, but that he is an animal rights supporter. I personally don’t believe that he has ulterior motives, I think he is doing what he believes to be best. It’s just that he thinks that what he believes is the only correct belief and what anyone else believes is completely wrong and is disgracing a fish and fly-fishing. Is it just me, or does anyone else wonder if Tim, Muskie, and Vandenman are the same person? :-) I don’t know if I’d be more frightened to find out they were the same person or three different people. :-O Later, – Ken — Not speaking for Intel rec.outdoors.fishing .fly) Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly No…if it wasn’t for the mellowness brought on by an occasional good homebrew, I’d be much worse. Beleive me. On second thought, I agree with you. You do seem to have a lot of hate, anger and fear, which is quite common in AR-supporters. That’s because you piss us both off…<g… That said, I *am* an unabashed Animal Rights supporter. What wildlife love among us is not ? There are some things that are wrong…like the guy that buried those puppies alive…we need AR laws so that we can prosecute bastards like that. I have simply drawn the line and "Pure C&R fishing" happens to live on that side of the line which includes other ‘pure sport’ hunting and fishing such as Trophy Big Game Hunting and Prarie Dog shoots. We should not kill, maim, harass or cause undue stress to wild animals…unless we plan to eat them or otherwise use them…which is clearly covered as acceptible. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

– The Blue Ridge Book Gallery | We are located 8 miles south of Boone on Rt. 1 Box 975-23 | Hiway 105 in Foscoe in the heart of the Banner Elk, NC 28604 | beautiful Blue Ridge Mountains. Please (704) 963-5001 | visit us when you’re in the area. | Thanks….Marie & Walter Winter http://www.mercury.net/~wgwinter/ also on Interloc…

Response:

Just a random thought here, but does it take T-BONE’S endless rantings and ravings to prompt some of you regulars (you know who you are) to post?? All of you have been curiously quiet since his temporary departure. Is his nonsense all it takes to ruffle your feathers? -Mark

Response:

You can find out whether your hypothesis is true by simply stating of your on nonsense. Just make sure you fire it up with equal parts of controversy, arrogance and curmudgeonry . — -dnc-

Response:

: : All of you have been curiously quiet since his temporary departure. Is : his nonsense all it takes to ruffle your feathers? Well, I’m not one of the ruffled one’s since I’m usually on his side, but I don’t really fish that often since moving from Colorado to the southern desert of New Mexico, so I can’t report on anything I did or learned. I’m spending more of my "leisure" computer time on horse and donkey discussions, as that’s where my interest lies for now. But this spring I *will* be heading into the Gila to catch up on catching trout. If all goes well my burro will be packing my gear ;-) JonCook.

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<snip : learned. I’m spending more of my "leisure" computer time on horse and : donkey discussions, as that’s where my interest lies for now. But this I’m guessing you’d want to go with a 9 or 10 weight for a horse or donkey, wouldn’t you? Do they feed on the surface? — http://members.tripod.com/~trunculo/index

Response:

I didn’t find the absence of the regulars as intriguing as the sudden emergence of a lot of new (or occasional) posters. He certainly stokes the fires of debate in ROFF, but the heat seems also to keep many away. An interesting trade-off, eh? Peter

Response:

says… All of you have been curiously quiet since his temporary departure. Hmmm, I’m not sure T-Bone’s departure is temporary. After admitting that he is a PETA supporter, he pretty much blew his cover. And credibility.

Did I miss something? I don’t recall him admitting to be a PETA supporter/member. In fact, his fishing activities, be they what they may, are in direct conflict with the PETA agenda of outlawing *ALL* fishing. Hence, your statement about his credibility is your own misguided fallacy.

Response:

: : I’m guessing you’d want to go with a 9 or 10 weight for a horse or : donkey, wouldn’t you? Heck even an 8 is sufficient, but you have to go back to fiberglass, because the fast-action graphite stings too much when you whack ‘em. JonCook.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Did I miss something? I don’t recall him admitting to be a PETA supporter/member. Yes you missed it. I don’t have the time to dig it out of Deja News. Why don’t you? I would appreciate it greatly. To help you out, he admitted to it just before he left r.o.f.f. BTW, Moe Skeeter is alive and well in other newsgroups. Go to In fact, his fishing activities, be they what they may, are in direct conflict with the PETA agenda of outlawing *ALL* fishing. I suspect he once fished but gave it up years ago. He nows uses his past experience to dupe real anglers like yourself.

I believe I found the article you are referring to, I’ll paste it below… For the record, it doesn’t say he is a PETA supporter, but that he is an animal rights supporter. I personally don’t believe that he has ulterior motives, I think he is doing what he believes to be best. It’s just that he thinks that what he believes is the only correct belief and what anyone else believes is completely wrong and is disgracing a fish and fly-fishing. Is it just me, or does anyone else wonder if Tim, Muskie, and Vandenman are the same person? :-) I don’t know if I’d be more frightened to find out they were the same person or three different people. :-O Later, - Ken — Not speaking for Intel rec.outdoors.fishing .fly) Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly No…if it wasn’t for the mellowness brought on by an occasional good homebrew, I’d be much worse. Beleive me. On second thought, I agree with you. You do seem to have a lot of hate, anger and fear, which is quite common in AR-supporters.

That’s because you piss us both off…<g… That said, I *am* an unabashed Animal Rights supporter. What wildlife love among us is not ? There are some things that are wrong…like the guy that buried those puppies alive…we need AR laws so that we can prosecute bastards like that. I have simply drawn the line and "Pure C&R fishing" happens to live on that side of the line which includes other ‘pure sport’ hunting and fishing such as Trophy Big Game Hunting and Prarie Dog shoots. We should not kill, maim, harass or cause undue stress to wild animals…unless we plan to eat them or otherwise use them…which is clearly covered as acceptible. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Response:

where I live trout season never closes - sort of an endless summer (just lots and lots of rain in certain months!) Peter

Moe asked me to ask you if there are any trout left?

Response:

says… I stand uncorrected, no mention of PETA. Quote: "That said, I *am* an unabashed Animal Rights supporter. TimW" What part of "Animal Rights supporter" don’t you understand?

The part where he states he is a card carrying member for PEOPLE FOR THE ETHICAL TREATMENT OF ANIMALS, or to clarify it further, PETA. You said he was a PETA member/supporter….you intentionally misled the group, hence THE BIG LIE….save your stories for the river where it is acceptable to stretch a tale.

Response:

Hey Ralphie, I thought you had gone on sabbatical too.

no – I’ve just been very busy … 25 days, 2 hours and 41 minutes before trout season opens, I’m not going to make.

where I live trout season never closes - sort of an endless summer (just lots and lots of rain in certain months!) Peter

Ralph H note spurious hyperbole, insults and ‘personal attacks’ made by the author are meant to honour "the Soul of Cicero" and are not intended as personal slights. Please don’t take offense as none is intended. remove "(take_this_out)" for email reply.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – yeah .. . he needed a break. But don’t ya’ think he might be lurking right now enjoying, all the ‘where’s Tim – I miss all the fascinatin’ dust ups he precipitated ‘ thinkin’ … hey they really do love me!" and preparing for a dramatic return! Then he’ll begin repeating himself all over again. Who said the LP is dead? Oh that’s just Tim – thought it was time to dust off my old 45’s. Ralph H note spurious hyperbole, insults and ‘personal attacks’ made by the author are meant to honour "the Soul of Cicero" and are not intended as personal slights. Please don’t take offense as none is intended. remove "(take_this_out)" for email reply.

Hey Ralphie, I thought you had gone on sabbatical too. 25 days, 2 hours and 41 minutes before trout season opens, I’m not going to make. Peter

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Peter Face it guys, You all miss Tim with his rantings and and provocations. He has helped to keep people reading the group in times when nothing else in the group was worth reading. After I posted something, I enjoyed sitting back and waiting for the novel way Tim would string curses together, to describe it and me. But it was time for him to take a rest as he was begining to repeat himself. Peter

yeah .. . he needed a break. But don’t ya’ think he might be lurking right now enjoying, all the ‘where’s Tim – I miss all the fascinatin’ dust ups he precipitated ‘ thinkin’ … hey they really do love me!" and preparing for a dramatic return! Then he’ll begin repeating himself all over again. Who said the LP is dead? Oh that’s just Tim – thought it was time to dust off my old 45’s. Ralph H note spurious hyperbole, insults and ‘personal attacks’ made by the author are meant to honour "the Soul of Cicero" and are not intended as personal slights. Please don’t take offense as none is intended. remove "(take_this_out)" for email reply.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Well, I’ve avoided responding to Jim P. for years now, but I see it’s about time… : So he says. Actually, I think it is just a lie. Timbo probably was an : angler in the past but he is no longer. And that just goes to show you that you live in your own little world. I’ve personally seen him bonk fish in the last year. I’ve said it before — with all the analogies Tim has made of fishing with hunting (i.e., providing food through sport, not playing trout golf), you oughtta be his staunchest supporter…if you really are a hunter…then again, maybe you are the one with the hidden PETA agenda… JonCook.

Jon this really cracked me up! Ralph H note spurious hyperbole, insults and ‘personal attacks’ made by the author are meant to honour "the Soul of Cicero" and are not intended as personal slights. Please don’t take offense as none is intended. remove "(take_this_out)" for email reply.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Peter Face it guys, You all miss Tim with his rantings and and provocations. He has helped to keep people reading the group in times when nothing else in the group was worth reading. Discussions about which areas are hot and not, where to fish and how well we just did in this stream at this hole on this day with this fly just don’t happen in this group. I can’t blame anyone for that, I don’t want the whole world to know the prime spots I fish either. But in times when there is very little trout fly fishing going on (such as last winter), Timbo helped to spark an ember or two. I thought the best was the thread about the ass backwards lawyer who wanted to abolish Tim from the group. (kind of looks like it worked in retrospect). "end commercial fishing on all salmonids" Cheers

After I posted something, I enjoyed sitting back and waiting for the novel way Tim would string curses together, to describe it and me. But it was time for him to take a rest as he was begining to repeat himself. Peter

Response:

Face it guys, You all miss Tim with his rantings and and provocations. He has helped to keep people reading the group in times when nothing else in the group was worth reading. Discussions about which areas are hot and not, where to fish and how well we just did in this stream at this hole on this day with this fly just don’t happen in this group. I can’t blame anyone for that, I don’t want the whole world to know the prime spots I fish either. But in times when there is very little trout fly fishing going on (such as last winter), Timbo helped to spark an ember or two. I thought the best was the thread about the ass backwards lawyer who wanted to abolish Tim from the group. (kind of looks like it worked in retrospect). "end commercial fishing on all salmonids" Cheers

Response:

Well, I’ve avoided responding to Jim P. for years now, but I see it’s about time… : I stand uncorrected, no mention of PETA. : : Quote: "That said, I *am* an unabashed Animal Rights supporter. TimW" Well, again, no mention of PETA… : What part of "Animal Rights supporter" don’t you understand? So now you change the question from your original one… : Neither do I. It is called animal welfare. Animal *rights* is something : else entirely. If you’ve actually read the threads that have transpired, you’d know that Tim’s definition of "animal rights" is nowhere near what your definition is…so quit applying your narrow AR==PETA definition. It doesn’t fit. You all have twisted Tim’s words through the years, forcing him to make his own phrases, like "pure catch and release" — and then you assail him for it. Well, here’s the perfect example. Everyone except Jim knows that Tim did not mean the PETA agenda when he said "animal rights". : Tim kills for his table….he’s not the first nor will he be the last. : : So he says. Actually, I think it is just a lie. Timbo probably was an : angler in the past but he is no longer. And that just goes to show you that you live in your own little world. I’ve personally seen him bonk fish in the last year. You have no clue about what you write. I’ve said it before — with all the analogies Tim has made of fishing with hunting (i.e., providing food through sport, not playing trout golf), you oughtta be his staunchest supporter…if you really are a hunter…then again, maybe you are the one with the hidden PETA agenda… JonCook.

Response:

Quote: "That said, I *am* an unabashed Animal Rights supporter. TimW" What part of "Animal Rights supporter" don’t you understand? Tim admits to a love for animals….I have no problem with that. Neither do I. It is called animal welfare. Animal *rights* is something else entirely. Do you have a problem with it? I have a problem with AR, not AW.

I USED to think there wasn’t any difference between Animal Rights and animal welfare. However, I’ve learned that when rights are given to animals, instead of animal welfare which protects them with laws requiring humane treatment, a whole nasty can of worms is opened up. It seems like a subtle difference but think of the consequences of assigning rights to animals. A few to start: no eating of animal flesh, no pets or domesticated animals, no leather, no milk, ice cream or cheese, no animal research, etc. Willi

Response:

Peter: Good observation, at least because it agrees with mine! That is, I have also noticed the emergence of some new posters since the C&R/C&K threads have died away. In any event, you have to give Timbo credit for this – even his absence can provoke controversy, as well as the longest thread here in weeks. Mark Faulkner

Response:

That kind of "debate" does keep people away. I checked out this newsgroup about three years ago and quickly decided it wasn’t what I wanted to read every day. I think it’s a lot friendlier now, not that Tim was ever unfriendly to me… on the contrary, actually; he e-mailed me answers to some of my questions and was quite encouraging. Ironically, it’s messages like this one I’m typing that I don’t want to see, so I’m done typing now! I want to read about Fly Fishing! Leave the debating to the after-fishing pub visits. Bob Scott

Response:

Dave Tatosian wrote "FiddleAway" wrote You can find out whether your hypothesis is true by simply stating of your o[w]n nonsense. Just make sure you fire it up with equal parts of controversy, arrogance and curmudgeonry .

Sorry ta ruffle your feathers, ol’ fart! … 8-) — -dnc-

Response:

From the Deep South New Zealand

Response:

Michael K Skorey wrote Just a random thought here, but does it take T-BONE’S endless rantings and ravings to prompt some of you regulars (you know who you are) to post?? All of you have been curiously quiet since his temporary departure. Is his nonsense all it takes to ruffle your feathers? You can find out whether your hypothesis is true by simply stating of your o[w]n nonsense. Just make sure you fire it up with equal parts of controversy, arrogance and curmudgeonry .

HEY! Leave us curmudgeons out of this. Walker couldn’t qualify as a curmudgeon on a bet! /dave (Charter Member of CU – "Curmudgeons Unlimited")

Response:

Author: admin on
Category: Trout Fly Fishing
Tags: Trout Fly Fishing

Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing » Portland, Ore., fly fishing?

Portland, Ore., fly fishing?

Question:

You have to drive at least a hundred miles. If you don’t want to drive, better stay where you are. Jim

Response:

This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If I moved to Portland are the reports of outstanding fishing true? Put another way, can I found nice water without crowds nearby or do I have to drive 100 miles plus to beat the crowds? Thanks in advance. — I’m haunted by waters. Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html<head</head<BODY bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"<p<font size=3D2 = color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Arial"If I moved to Portland are the reports = of outstanding fishing true? Put another way, can I found nice water = without crowds nearby or do I have to drive 100 miles plus to beat the = haunted by waters.</p </font</body</html

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<HTML<BODY

<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE  <BR <BR<FONT FACE="Arial"<FONT COLOR="#000000"<FONT SIZE=-1If I moved to Portland are the reports of outstanding fishing true? Put another way, can I found nice water without crowds nearby or do I have to drive 100 miles plus to beat the crowds?</FONT</FONT</FONT <BR </BLOCKQUOTE I drive 300 miles to beat the crowds, although sometimes good water can be found close-in. <BR <BR– <BRcsthomas </BODY </HTML

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If I moved to Portland are the reports of outstanding fishing true? Put another way, can I found nice water without crowds nearby or do I have to drive 100 miles plus to beat the crowds? Thanks in advance. If you go into the coast range, you’ll find a LOT less people. With the Cascades so close, people seem to forget that there’s another set of mountains to the West. Best of Luck, - Ken

Hmmm, good point! While everyone is heading east, you could go west and fish the Wilson, Nestucca, etc. -Burton — 2330 NW Hummingbird Corvallis, OR

Response:

If you go into the coast range, you’ll find a LOT less people. With the Cascades so close, people seem to forget that there’s another set of mountains to the West. Best of Luck, - Ken — Ken Janik Oregon State University Dept of Electrical and Computer Engineering http://www.ece.orst.edu/~janikk

Response:

If I moved to Portland are the reports of outstanding fishing true? Put another way, can I found nice water without crowds nearby or do I have to drive 100 miles plus to beat the crowds? Thanks in advance. — I’m haunted by waters.

You can drive a hundred miles and stand in the Deschutes surrounded by hundreds of people. Or you can drive 20 miles and fish by yourself. Nope, not telling where. It’s just like anywhere else. Them that can scout will find some good, unpopulated spots. Them that can’t, won’t.

Response:

You still have to drive awhile for good fishing. The Deschutes is about 2 hours. Forget about uncrowded areas unless you like to hike. I lived there for 4 years and just moved to AZ.

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But it IS about 100 miles, or at least a couple of hours on back 2-lane roads to get there. And there aren’t a LOT of trout waters west of Portland. It’s surprising that trout are not so easy to find close to Portland. I think (not by any means well acquainted with the area) by repute the best good water anywhere near Portland is to the southeast in the small streams around the Bull of the Woods area. Anybody got an informed opinion on this? — Ken Brown Satis elequontiae, sapientiae parum.

Response:

Author: admin on
Category: Fly Fishing
Tags: Fly Fishing

Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing » Wild Rainbows in UK

Wild Rainbows in UK

Question:

| In some cases, rainbows have been stocked into rivers. One | example of this is the River Derwent which is a tributary of | the River Tyne here in the NE of England. The Tyne, I should | point out is now a rapidly improving salmon river now that | estuary pollution has been cleared up (!!almost!!). | I thought the Wye in Derbyshire was the only English river with a natural population of rainbows. If the Derwent has them reproducing, i would love to hear more. Of course, most of the chalk-streams have been ruined by overstocking of both rainbows and browns. | | There have, however, been some reports of rainbows being | caught at sea by commercial fishermen but these have been | ignored by the government agencies responsible for overseeing | fisheries (Ministry of Agriculture & Fisheries aka MAFF and | the National Rivers Authority aka NRA) who apparently just | didn’t believe it possible until one had been slapped across | the table. Give me a ring about this, at work — 071-956-1682 — and I willput you through to my frinsd the rural affairs correspondent. It would make a good story if we talked to kthe netsman. | | Yesterday evening I was talking with a local netsman who told | me he had been catching quite a number recently and had just | succeeded in convincing the NRA that they existed. These fish | are, according to this guy, akin to steelheads with a mouth | full of teeth, and are voracious feeders. Furthermore they are | not small, running to several pounds. Completely different | from the tame little fish reservoir anglers are used to!! | | What worries me about this is the possibility that these | things are going to start running up our salmon rivers. I | don’t know if they’re going to continue feeding in freshwater. | If so, on what? Not nymphs and flies I expect, unless they | lose those teeth. In Denmark and Southern Sweden, many of the rivers with trout farms on them have a run of steelhead, too. Certainly the Goeta Aelv (which runs through Gothenburg) did. We used to catch them occaionally in the stuary while trying for sea trout. They did not real harm: certainly a lot less than the greedy touristic masses of stocked, non-migratory fish. — Religious Affairs Correspondent | phone +44-71-253-1222 xt 1682 | London, England | I’m not paid to have opinions |

Response:

Informed opinion has it that these fish will not breed naturally in our waters and the presence of overwintered, egg bound females in the early part of our season (March) would seem to confirm this.

Aren’t they spring spawners? If so then March would be pre spawn period. Anyways, it may be just possible that they are laying eggs but the habitat does not induce success. Would there be a clear creek for one of the lakes that they could run for spawning? What worries me about this is the possibility that these things are going to start running up our salmon rivers. I don’t know if they’re going to continue feeding in freshwater. If so, on what? Not nymphs and flies I expect, unless they lose those teeth.

Steelhead are spring spawners by nature and will eventually revert back to spring spawning after several generations. This means most will run the rivers in the spring. But some run the rivers in the fall holding overwinter. The fall runners would probably feed on loose salmon eggs, insects, minnows. But during winter their metabolism is slow and would suspect they don’t feed much. In the sea they feed to grow but in the river they would feed to sustain energy spent. So can I ask you all for some info about these things in the wild?? 1. If they do run our rivers and continue to feed avidly, will they threaten existing fish stocks of salmonids by feeding on eggs, fry or smolts.

I doubt this especially if you have a healthy run of salmons. 2. What breeding conditions do they need?

Same as a salmon but they probably would have a higher fry success rate than salmon. 3. Do they run a river, breed and die/return to the sea like atlantic salmon?

Run, spawn, return. or 4. Will they run up a river, graze until the larders empty and then return to the sea?

No! This could be a real problem for us, I’d appreciate some or any info you might have. Finally, In the event the River Tyne ends up with a steelhead run know any good fly patterns?? =8-(

Anything black works here, nymphs, wigglers. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Tight lines

Response:

Hi! In the UK our experience with rainbows has, in the past, been largely limited to stillwaters (mostly reservoirs), which are stocked with hatchery reared fish at intervals. I understand, **though I may be completely wrong on this**, that two basic types (shasta and steelhead) were imported into this country a number of years ago but that insufficient care/understanding by breeders has lead to a thorough mixing of the two. What we have now, in nearly all stillwaters, are, as you can guess, pretty poor specimens which apparently bear absolutely NO RESEMBLANCE WHATSOEVER to the REAL thing. You can, however, still pick up obviously different fish which, presumeably, relate more closely to either of the wild types. Informed opinion has it that these fish will not breed naturally in our waters and the presence of overwintered, egg bound females in the early part of our season (March) would seem to confirm this. In some cases, rainbows have been stocked into rivers. One example of this is the River Derwent which is a tributary of the River Tyne here in the NE of England. The Tyne, I should point out is now a rapidly improving salmon river now that estuary pollution has been cleared up (!!almost!!). There have, however, been some reports of rainbows being caught at sea by commercial fishermen but these have been ignored by the government agencies responsible for overseeing fisheries (Ministry of Agriculture & Fisheries aka MAFF and the National Rivers Authority aka NRA) who apparently just didn’t believe it possible until one had been slapped across the table. Yesterday evening I was talking with a local netsman who told me he had been catching quite a number recently and had just succeeded in convincing the NRA that they existed. These fish are, according to this guy, akin to steelheads with a mouth full of teeth, and are voracious feeders. Furthermore they are not small, running to several pounds. Completely different from the tame little fish reservoir anglers are used to!! What worries me about this is the possibility that these things are going to start running up our salmon rivers. I don’t know if they’re going to continue feeding in freshwater. If so, on what? Not nymphs and flies I expect, unless they lose those teeth. So can I ask you all for some info about these things in the wild?? 1. If they do run our rivers and continue to feed avidly, will they threaten existing fish stocks of salmonids by feeding on eggs, fry or smolts. 2. What breeding conditions do they need? 3. Do they run a river, breed and die/return to the sea like atlantic salmon? or 4. Will they run up a river, graze until the larders empty and then return to the sea? This could be a real problem for us, I’d appreciate some or any info you might have. Finally, In the event the River Tyne ends up with a steelhead run know any good fly patterns?? =8-( Tight lines

Response:

…two basic types (shasta and steelhead) were imported…

For *trout*, I believe most of Europe was stocked with "Eagle Lake" rainbow – a lake not far from Shasta in California, USA. For *steelhead*, I could only guess you have the Skamania steelhead from Washington State, USA. It has been selected for transplant all over because of its suitability with hatchery operations (i.e. cheap and easy to raise). Trout and steelhead are different critters. Trout are landlocked, and steelhead are typically sea-run, though if you landlock them, they’d probably do fine – the great lakes in the U.S. are an example where they do just fine, and make runs, the only difference is their ocean is freshwater. What we have now … apparently bear absolutely NO RESEMBLANCE …

The U.S. was stocked primarly with two strains of brown trout from Europe. Old timers said it was once possible to tell them apart. Now they too have interbred and don’t look quite like the real thing. Still fun to catch though Informed opinion has it that these fish will not breed naturally in our waters and the presence of overwintered, egg bound females in the early part of our season (March) would seem to confirm this.

Rainbows and cutthroat are spring spawners. Steelhead spawn from fall to spring, depending on latitude. I suspect you’re close to Oregon and Washington – winter (December) through spring (late April) spawning. Only guessing – stocking stillwaters isn’t too successful (spawning wise) for trout. Most lakes for example in Oregon, were stocked with trout in the 1920’s, or there abouts, and require repeat stockings every few years. Only those lakes with small creeks incoming, or gravel banks with lots of hydrodynamics, seem to maintain populations without stocking. Rivers however, trout stock fairly easily. Ditto steelhead if they have a large body of stillwater and running water to run between. There have, however, been some reports of rainbows being caught at sea by commercial fishermen …..

Wouldn’t surprise me. Some Atlantic Salmon were raised next to a coastal stream in Washington State – some accidently got into the river. Recently, there have been reports of *large* Atlantic Salmon being caught. I could imagine the Steelhead in Europe finally establishing themselves. What worries me about this is the possibility that these things are going to start running up our salmon rivers. I don’t know if they’re going to continue feeding in freshwater. If so, on what? Not nymphs and flies I expect, unless they lose those teeth.

I don’t know the spawning period for Atlantics. Read the article enclosed below – there will certainly be competition at some points in the life cycle. BTW – Young steelhead (egg – alvein – parr – smolt) are aggressive feeders of anything while in fresh water, which is usually from 6 to 24 months, some 36 months. 1. If they do run our rivers and continue to feed avidly, will they threaten existing fish stocks of salmonids by feeding on eggs, fry or smolts.

Adult Steelhead only come into fresh water to spawn, and don’t feed much. Also, unlike Atlantics, they don’t do as much repeat spawning. In a given run, maybe 35% are one time repeaters, 10% two time. 2. What breeding conditions do they need?

For Steelhead, Very fast tailout water – 3 to 5 mph or up to 8 kph. Small gravel in tributaries. For early incoming steelhead, deep holding pools prior to the spawning season. 3. Do they run a river, breed and die/return to the sea like atlantic salmon?

Yep, except more Atlantic repeat the process. 4. Will they run up a river, graze until the larders empty and then return to the sea?

What’s a larder? know any good fly patterns?? =8-(

Many Atlantic Salmon patterns have been modified for Steelhead. Thomas Gilg FYI – From a back issue of our clubs newsletter: Mid-Willamette Fly Fishers Newsletter VOLUME X NO.5 May 1993 *** Introduction to Stream Habitat Improvement *** Summarized and adapted by Frank Cochrane from ODF&W publication "An Introduction to Stream Habitat Improvement" For a stream to produce large numbers of trout or salmon, the stream habitat must be in good condition. This requires cold, clean water, food, and cover. Most of Oregon’s streams have been degraded by man’s activities. Therefore, the streams cannot support as many fish as they once could. Loss of spawning gravels, rearing areas, streamside vegetation, instream woody debris, and access to productive areas are some of the major results of man’s careless treatment of the aquatic environment. Many of those problems can be overcome in sections of some streams through habitat improvement projects. The Conservation Committee is presently looking into possibilities for meaningful projects by the Mid Willamette Fly Fishers to improve the aquatic habitat in some of the nearby streams — and improve our fishing opportunities. The material below gives an introduction to the basic principles of stream habitat improvement. The "Bottleneck Concept" If some limiting factor exists, a stream’s fish production is restricted or "bottlenecked". Fish numbers are lower than optimum as a result. Here are two examples: o If spawning area is limited, spawning success is low. Therefore, fish numbers are restricted by the small number of eggs that hatch and develop into fry. o If the rearing area is poor or the food supply is inadequate, the fish become stunted or their numbers are reduced. Therefore, the mature fish are not healthy, or there are not many mature fish. In either case, fish numbers cannot be increased until the stream habitat is improved and the bottleneck is reduced. It is important to understand what is limiting fish production in a particular situation so that efforts to increase the numbers of fish are not misdirected and wasted. What are common Habitat Problems? o Water Quality. Temperatures may be too high for trout or salmon. Various types of pollution may be having a negative effect on fish and aquatic insect production. o Barriers to Production Areas. These may be either natural, such as falls or log jams, or man- made, such as dams and improperly installed culverts. o Abused Riparian Zone. Overgrazing, logging, road building, and urban development often result in loss of streamside vegetation. Good plant growth along a stream provides shade that helps keep water cool, reduces erosion and silt loads, and contributes insects to the fish food supply. o Lack of Spawning Area. Some streams lack suitable spawning areas because of scouring by floods, channel alterations from human activity, or the lack of proper size gravels in the stream. o Inadequate Juvenile Rearing Areas. A mixture of riffles and pools, undercut streambanks, side channels, and instream boulders plus a certain amount of large woody structures are necessary to provide juvenile fish with an environment for survival and growth. o Adult Holding Areas are Missing. Adult fish need pools for hiding and resting. This is especially true for some salmon and steelhead that return several months before spawning. Many streams lack sufficient holding pools for adults. How to Conduct a Project to Improve Stream Habitat Each project to improve stream habitat requires individual consideration to tailor it to the need and the site. The steps below are essential for a successful project. 1. Identify the Problem. Before starting a project to improve stream habitat, we need to find out where and what is needed, with the help and guidance of ODF&W or other fishery professionals. Stream surveys must be done to collect appropriate information, and the results must be evaluated. What are the bottlenecks? 2. Prescribe a Treatment. We should determine what actions can be taken to reduce the bottlenecks. 3. Treat the Bottlenecks. The treatment prescribed above is then carried out. 4. Evaluate the Results. Is the treatment accomplishing the desired result? We should consider both short and long term effects. Are there more healthy fish in the stream? Are there lessor bottlenecks that need treatment? 5. Maintain the Habitat Improvement. Periodic inspection and maintenance may be needed to ensure the retention of any beneficial effect. It is sometimes tempting to get in too big of a hurry to do Steps 1, 4 and 5. Let’s not fall into that trap! Look for more from the Conservation Committee in the near future concerning projects to improve stream habitat — and to improve fishing opportunities at the same time.

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