Question:

A few months back I shared the news about having found another job, after losing one just a few months prior. Things are going pretty well as far as the actual work part goes, not too difficult from a physical standpoint and enough weekends to save my ass before it falls off. The really good news is that I got a fabulous 6 month evaluation (public employment..) and I am now a permanent staff member. In the summer of ‘98 when I fell apart, it never occurred to me that I might be where I am now. After all by the summer of ‘99 , I was barely walking and most days were about 2 hours long. Things just didn’t look all that promising, if you know what I mean. With a lot of adaptation, some pharmaceutical intervention and a little   luck, I was able to crawl through the process of re-training, and then actually staying together long enough to find a job in a crappy job market. Dang. My ms has basically simmered and not boiled over for some time now. I am convinced that copaxone has made a big difference for me, as well as a lot of other stuff. A good marriage, I can still can ride a motorcycle (in fact just got a new one see http://colevalley.net/photos/bikes/03yam/yam.02.jpg), I still can fly-fish, and even go for walks in the park. Not that I haven’t had  few days here and there where I felt like I had been dunked a vat of novacaine and beaten with a dead salmon, but overall I just have to say that I will probably look back on this time of my life as the good old days. Of course things won’t always be this rosy but for now , I will take it. — Jim S

Response:

In <news:wQvTd.599$C47.305@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>, jim s said: > Not that I haven’t had  few days here and there where I felt like I > had been dunked a vat of novacaine and beaten with a dead salmon,

Dude… some people would pay good money for treatment like that.  :-)

Response:

Michael wrote: > In <news:wQvTd.599$C47.305@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>, > jim s said: >>Not that I haven’t had  few days here and there where I felt like I >>had been dunked a vat of novacaine and beaten with a dead salmon, > Dude… some people would pay good money for treatment like that.  :-)

Don’t most of them live with their elderly mothers, on a lonely highway somewhere south of Austin, Nevada? — Jim Stinnett R1100Rs VTR1000 YZF R1 http://moto-rama,com

Response:

In <news:10wTd.602$C47.216@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>, jim s said: > Michael wrote: >> In <news:wQvTd.599$C47.305@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>, >> jim s said: >>> Not that I haven’t had  few days here and there where I felt like I >>> had been dunked a vat of novacaine and beaten with a dead salmon, >> Dude… some people would pay good money for treatment like that. > Don’t most of them live with their elderly mothers, on a lonely > highway somewhere south of Austin, Nevada?

They only call those old ladies "mom" for the benefit of police and social workers.

Response:

We are all very happy for you and hope things continue to go well It sounds like good things are happening — may they continue Do not pass any around, but to cover all bases I have included — some cyber smoked steelhead — some cyber salmon jerky — five cyber pounds of dark chocolate because everyone on this newsgroup knows that dark chocolate is healthy for you You can be sure that we all recognize and appreciate where you are at now from where you used to be and everything that goes with it Congratulations — thanks for keeping us informed — may things continue to go well for you we all are all sharing in your good fortune — Larry Rather than building character, adversity tends to reveal it written using voice recognition software "jim s" <elkab…@colevalley.net> wrote > Of course things won’t always be this rosy but for now , I will take it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> — > Jim S

Response:

"jim s" <elkab…@colevalley.net> wrote  I can still can ride a motorcycle > (in fact just got a new one see > http://colevalley.net/photos/bikes/03yam/yam.02.jpg), > Jim S

Jim, youre in far to poor a condition to ride a motorcycle like that, I think you need to hand that over to someone like me who can take care of it for you.  ;^) Thats a sweet looking ride my man.  Nice.  Very nice.  I must have dropped my Sporty 50 times before I finally bought crash-bars for it, and, of course, havent really droped it once since.  Aint that how life goes though? Rob

Response:

hi jim, may the dead-salmon-and-novocaine days be few, and the tires-hitting-the-road days many! continued good fortune, rose

Response:

"Rob Duncan" <robdun…@gbronline.com> wrote in > Thats a sweet looking ride my man.  Nice.  Very nice.  I must have dropped > my Sporty 50 times before I finally bought crash-bars for it, and, of > course, havent really droped it once since.  Aint that how life goes

though? Yeah…what’s up with that? Maybe it’s a karmic insurance policy! vroom. Jim S

Response:

"white.lynx" <white.l…@shaw.ca> wrote in message > Do not pass any around,

but to cover all bases I have included > — some cyber smoked steelhead > — some cyber salmon jerky > — five cyber pounds of dark chocolate because everyone on this newsgroup > knows that dark chocolate is healthy for you > You can be sure that we all recognize and appreciate where you are at now > from where you used to be and everything that goes with it

I love chocolate, enough that it rivals some of the other rather important things, like breathing…:) Jim

Response:

Question:

All, A man I knew for the last 25 years as a dear friend and a fly fisherman passed away last night at the age of 68. This man survived the Korean War flying some of our best jets of that time and continued flying until medical problems grounded him. His main interest in life was fly fishing and fly tying.  When he could not find the materials he wanted for tying or fishing, he made them. He even defied the odds and manufactured his own fly rods and produced some of the finest rods I’ve ever had the privilege to cast. I know that many on this list were his friend and will also miss him. This list will miss his quips and comments. Whether you agreed with him or not, he did made you think. George, we will all miss you. In memory of George Gehrke, Karl Snyder — a friend

Response:

In memory of George Gehrke, Karl Snyder — a friend

Friend or foe, from all I’ve heard, he was an excellent angler.  Tight lines George. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply

Response:

In memory of George Gehrke,

It’s good he was able to make it to the Henrys Fork Clave, and probably why he strived to get there. He obviously enjoyed himself there, and (for better or worse) enjoyed frequenting roff. My thoughts are with his friends and family. — TL, George. Tim

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – All, A man I knew for the last 25 years as a dear friend and a fly fisherman passed away last night at the age of 68. This man survived the Korean War flying some of our best jets of that time and continued flying until medical problems grounded him. His main interest in life was fly fishing and fly tying.  When he could not find the materials he wanted for tying or fishing, he made them. He even defied the odds and manufactured his own fly rods and produced some of the finest rods I’ve ever had the privilege to cast. I know that many on this list were his friend and will also miss him. This list will miss his quips and comments. Whether you agreed with him or not, he did made you think. George, we will all miss you. In memory of George Gehrke, Karl Snyder — a friend

Very sorry to hear that, Karl. No matter if the people on this list were his friends or not, I think that we all will miss his posts, for sure I will. Even if I didn

Question:

and why over-planning can lead to a skunking. We all get skunked sometimes but the skunkings that really bug me are the ones where others around me are catching fish and I’m getting diddly.  I don’t enjoy the feeling of incompetence.  The penny has finally dropped as to why (and no, the incompetence isn’t it.) We all go fishing operating on theory, approach, and method, but I’m starting to form the opinion that one can get too hung up on it. Before you dismiss me as being completely loonie consider this example of T.A.& M.: Theory – "Big browns feed at night." Approach – The big, slow pools on river XXXX should be fished at dusk. Method – Take a 6 wt. and cast a deerhair mouse pattern across current allowing the slow movement of the water to drag the mouse slowly across the pool. Unless one is a complete rookie, we all go through some sort of thought process like this before heading out.  But what happens if we do this in too great a detail and try to fit the river to our plans instead of the other way around?  What happens if there’s a hex hatch starting but we are still banging away with our mouse? Before setting out for the Penns clave, I’d pretty well decided that I’d swing wets or streamers if no hatch was happening.  The first day in, I was completely skunked until I gave up on the idea and began dredging the green water with PTs.  On my last trip to the Whirlpool, I had decided on speys and streamers, again nothing until I started dredging the bottom with bunny leeches.  Armed with this experience, I took my bunny leeches to the Catt, dredged the deep runs and was skunked again.  Last Sunday, I went to the Credit even though I knew the river would be blown out, just to try the new rod.  When I got down to the big tree pool, I tied on a black & purple spider spey and a sinking Polyleader as it seemed the appropriate thing to do, then began casting and drifting, getting the feel of the big stick, fixing casting problems, and fiddling with the mending.  Without even trying, I was into a fish.  In PA, the Whirlpool and at the Catt, I was getting skunked while others hooked fish.  At the Credit, I was the only one in the vicinity to get into a fish.  The boot was on the other foot. Duh!  Bingo!  Go with the flow instead or persisting with a pre-planned method.  It seems so blindingly obvious when I write it, but it’s so subtle to detect in real life.  We have to do some planning else we’d show up at the river with no rod but being too focused before leaving the house can saddle one with a goose egg. Perhaps I’m the only angler on the planet to do this, but I’m willing to bet I’m not.  From this point on, there will be at least one less. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Skunkings are primarily caused by being jinxed. To wit: Have you ever noticed that if you are catching fish hand over fist and then explain your success to another angler, the other angler will start catching fish and you will not catch another fish for at least 2 hours, probably the rest of the day? My fishing buddy, Rat, caught more fish on Good Friday than he had ever caught in his life. The rest of the summer, he was notably behind the curve. Even God is in on this. It is all superstition. Absolutely no science or method to it at all… — Citizen Fisherman I’m kinda spooked; I think I may have said too much already… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – and why over-planning can lead to a skunking. We all get skunked sometimes but the skunkings that really bug me are the ones where others around me are catching fish and I’m getting diddly.  I don’t enjoy the feeling of incompetence.  The penny has finally dropped as to why (and no, the incompetence isn’t it.) We all go fishing operating on theory, approach, and method, but I’m starting to form the opinion that one can get too hung up on it. Before you dismiss me as being completely loonie consider this example of T.A.& M.: Theory – "Big browns feed at night." Approach – The big, slow pools on river XXXX should be fished at dusk. Method – Take a 6 wt. and cast a deerhair mouse pattern across current allowing the slow movement of the water to drag the mouse slowly across the pool. Unless one is a complete rookie, we all go through some sort of thought process like this before heading out.  But what happens if we do this in too great a detail and try to fit the river to our plans instead of the other way around?  What happens if there’s a hex hatch starting but we are still banging away with our mouse? Before setting out for the Penns clave, I’d pretty well decided that I’d swing wets or streamers if no hatch was happening.  The first day in, I was completely skunked until I gave up on the idea and began dredging the green water with PTs.  On my last trip to the Whirlpool, I had decided on speys and streamers, again nothing until I started dredging the bottom with bunny leeches.  Armed with this experience, I took my bunny leeches to the Catt, dredged the deep runs and was skunked again.  Last Sunday, I went to the Credit even though I knew the river would be blown out, just to try the new rod.  When I got down to the big tree pool, I tied on a black & purple spider spey and a sinking Polyleader as it seemed the appropriate thing to do, then began casting and drifting, getting the feel of the big stick, fixing casting problems, and fiddling with the mending.  Without even trying, I was into a fish.  In PA, the Whirlpool and at the Catt, I was getting skunked while others hooked fish.  At the Credit, I was the only one in the vicinity to get into a fish.  The boot was on the other foot. Duh!  Bingo!  Go with the flow instead or persisting with a pre-planned method.  It seems so blindingly obvious when I write it, but it’s so subtle to detect in real life.  We have to do some planning else we’d show up at the river with no rod but being too focused before leaving the house can saddle one with a goose egg. Perhaps I’m the only angler on the planet to do this, but I’m willing to bet I’m not.  From this point on, there will be at least one less. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

George Adams writes: FWIW, I have have found the Jailbird to be most effective fished deep, as a dropper or under an indicator.

Shhhhhhhhh! Dave

Response:

what color closed cell foam?

On the original (olive) pattern, I use white or yellow. On the modified (tan) pattern, I use yellow or orange. They seem to be most successful in sizes #18 -#22. I have done well with this pattern tied on scud type (curved) hooks and conventional wet fly hooks. There are a number of midge pups patterns, Serendipity for example, that incorporate a bouyant (deer hair or foam) collar so , at least in theory, the fly rides upright in the water. FWIW, I have have found the Jailbird to be most effective fished deep, as a dropper or under an indicator. George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

Response:

 It also helps to keep an open mind, and not get too fixated on one particular aspect (unless, as a couple of people have pointed out, THAT is the goal) if you are _fishing_, rather than experimenting, testing, etc.

Interesting point. On a local freestone stream, most folks hit the pools in the fall with PT nymphs, or midge/bwo dry patterns.  I was down in a spot with a couple of small pools and pocket water.  In the small pools I  was noticing every once in a while a leaf would hit the water and bang! it would get hit.  I watched it a couple of times, figuring out that there was a terrestrial hanging on the falling leaf that was getting hit.  I didn’t find out *what*, though . In addition, there were a lot of yellow jackets around.  In talking with some folks who fished succesfully in that stretch, they were using bee patterns very successfully, even though it was past the traditional time for terrestrials. On the leaves, it could have been some left over ants or something hanging on…don’t know for sure.  But of course, I was geared up with 20 and 22 BWO’s and BHPT’s which were being ignored. Similar observations and results with another angler upstream a bit.  I didn’t have any terrestrial patterns with me, though, or I would have tried them. Rob

Response:

what color closed cell foam? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – George Adams writes: Dave, Try the same pattern with tan dubbing, and either orange or yellow foam. {:-) And maybe change the ribbing to orange.  I’ll give it a try (come June). Dave

Response:

For me, it’s a matter of choosing a method at the house rather than when I arrived at the water, based either on past experience or just for the hell of it.  

Oh, well, yeah, you’re right then:  that’s just beggin’ for a skunkin’. When I would do that (for steelheading, it usually meant leaving one or another of the rods or lines at home, assuming I’d never, ever need it, not today), the invariable result was regret. Good luck on the Credit today.  BTW, how’s that thesis coming? JR

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I agree.  Being flexible is by far the best plan.  The trick to making it work, though, is to stick to it no matter what!  ;) Seriously, I wish life were that simple.  I’ve more than once been skunked in the morning, only to catch a mess in the afternoon, using the same technique.  Often the conditions change to coincide with whatever method we happen to be using.  Sometimes the "changed condition" can be simply moving down or up to a different piece of water.   Your post set me thinking back.  I don’t know that I’ve been skunked more often by sticking stubbornly to one method than by switching willy-nilly every twenty minutes from one fly and presentation to another.  The one thing to avoid, I think, is doing something–whatever it is–for no good reason, casting about blindly, as it were.  If I’ve decided on a method for good reason (weather, look of the water, behavior of the fish, past experience), I’ll generally stick with it until I’ve got an equally good reason to change.  Of course, human nature being what it is, a stretch of two or three fishless hours can in itself grow to seem a sufficient reason <g. Parenthetically, I find if the fishing is pleasant (balmy weather, pleasant scenery), I’m less tempted to change my plan than when it’s cold, grey, windy and raining. JR

For me, it’s a matter of choosing a method at the house rather than when I arrived at the water, based either on past experience or just for the hell of it.  The results are often not that good until I start paying attention to what the conditions are telling me.   I’ll be leaving for the Credit soon and this time I’ll be taking a good look at the water before I decide what to do. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Duh!  Bingo!  Go with the flow instead or persisting with a pre-planned method.  It seems so blindingly obvious when I write it, but it’s so subtle to detect in real life.  We have to do some planning else we’d show up at the river with no rod but being too focused before leaving the house can saddle one with a goose egg. Perhaps I’m the only angler on the planet to do this, but I’m willing to bet I’m not.  From this point on, there will be at least one less.

I agree.  Being flexible is by far the best plan.  The trick to making it work, though, is to stick to it no matter what!  ;) Seriously, I wish life were that simple.  I’ve more than once been skunked in the morning, only to catch a mess in the afternoon, using the same technique.  Often the conditions change to coincide with whatever method we happen to be using.  Sometimes the "changed condition" can be simply moving down or up to a different piece of water.   Your post set me thinking back.  I don’t know that I’ve been skunked more often by sticking stubbornly to one method than by switching willy-nilly every twenty minutes from one fly and presentation to another.  The one thing to avoid, I think, is doing something–whatever it is–for no good reason, casting about blindly, as it were.  If I’ve decided on a method for good reason (weather, look of the water, behavior of the fish, past experience), I’ll generally stick with it until I’ve got an equally good reason to change.  Of course, human nature being what it is, a stretch of two or three fishless hours can in itself grow to seem a sufficient reason <g. Parenthetically, I find if the fishing is pleasant (balmy weather, pleasant scenery), I’m less tempted to change my plan than when it’s cold, grey, windy and raining. JR

Response:

Example:  A couple of years ago I came across a pattern at an Orvis store. It’s called the "jail bird".  A very easy tie – size 20 hook, some closed cell foam at the thorax, olive dubbing with a red thread ribbing.

Dave, Try the same pattern with tan dubbing, and either orange or yellow foam. {:-) George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

Response:

George Adams writes: Dave, Try the same pattern with tan dubbing, and either orange or yellow foam. {:-)

And maybe change the ribbing to orange.  I’ll give it a try (come June). Dave

Response:

Skunkings are primarily caused by being jinxed. To wit: Have you ever noticed that if you are catching fish hand over fist and then explain your success to another angler, the other angler will start catching fish and you will not catch another fish for at least 2 hours, probably the rest of the day?

No, I’ve never noticed that. — Check out the ROFF Calendar at: http://www.ruralnetwork.net/%7Etroutbum/calendar/calendar.html

Response:

willi, I agree with you–it is fun just to try new methods and tools.  I never catch many fish but enjoy spending a little time reading then going out ant trying a new technique. still no success with streamers or upstream casting of nymphs- but then perhaps the fish had not read the same article. Had great fun in Oct. when Big Dale and I shared cabin on small N.C. stream.[ see below I hit wrong button] first time I got a chance to fish same stream for four days with similar weather conditions. Tried dries, nymphs and streamers  for a day each   all with  minor success.  The fourth morning I walked down to the creek, cast three times and caught three fish–then not another in two hours. Some days are more fun than others.      Indian Joe    Wilmington N.C. some days are more fun than others.

Response:

and why over-planning can lead to a skunking. We all get skunked sometimes but the skunkings that really bug me are the ones where others around me are catching fish and I’m getting diddly.  I don’t enjoy the feeling of incompetence.  The penny has finally dropped as to why (and no, the incompetence isn’t it.) We all go fishing operating on theory, approach, and method, but I’m starting to form the opinion that one can get too hung up on it.

It always helps to do some basic planning, and research/ reconnaissance, before hitting the water, just to know what’s there, so you can make an educated guess as to what’s possible, what’s likely, and what else _might_work if your originally-intended method seems to be "off."  It also helps to keep an open mind, and not get too fixated on one particular aspect (unless, as a couple of people have pointed out, THAT is the goal) if you are _fishing_, rather than experimenting, testing, etc. This is one reason why (a disappointingly decreasing percentage, I’d offer) some anglers take a few basic tying supplies with them (certainly on overnight or longer trips), even on all-day trips.  You don’t need a lot of stuff – a water-tight "flip-top" eyeglass or cigarette box will hold a sufficiency – but of course, some at-home freehand tying practice is important unless you want to lug a vise (I don’t, but a "multi-purpose" tool and stout rubber band will do in a pinch, as will a pin vise).  It also helps to be ready to use whatever is at hand as a material.  In fact, some notable "modification" patterns are reported to have originated with less-than-orthodox materials adapted "spur of the moment."  If you do use any less-than-orthodox material, depending on source, or even traditional material long-stored in fishing clothing, I’d advise attempting to remove as much "human scent" as possible – for example, if you use some pocket lint for dubbing, rub it in some natural material, dirt/mud (if it’s not on the reddish side), loam, etc. and rinse in the fishing water.  I can’t say for sure as to whether the fish can tell, but I do think that it’s better safe than sorry.

Response:

Peter Charles wrote…. and why over-planning can lead to a skunking.

Not over planning just stubborness.   You want to do it the way you want and you forget why you’re there. Your way or no way.  A little flexibility and your accumulated knowledge and your back to catching fish. There’s no explaining a skunking. There’s no reason or logic when others are catching and you’re not. Unless you’re totally inept.  It’s just chance. Fate. What brings you back next time. Joel Axelrad **DFD**

Response:

I’m getting into this discussion a little late…  In waters that I know, it is always fun to experiment with something new.  During the off-season (now), I will tie new patterns that I *know* will work.  Call it intuition.  Most times they *do*  work.   Example:  A couple of years ago I came across a pattern at an Orvis store. It’s called the "jail bird".  A very easy tie – size 20 hook, some closed cell foam at the thorax, olive dubbing with a red thread ribbing.  I *knew* it would work at a certain spot on a certain river.  My first short cast with it brought up a beautiful brookie. Another example, Peter, is those Clousers you tied in September.  When I saw them I knew they would work – and they did.  <g I’ve never been skunked on that river – came close a few times, however. That is when I stop my "normal" attack and use something different, something that I *know* they will like.  We’ve heard it said that trout are like women:  find out what they want and give it to them.  The finding out part can be very difficult, especially on waters unfamiliar to you.   Dave

Response:

Peter,   You make, as ever, good points. I think another couple are:1)knowledge of the river you are fishing often prevents bad theory in the first place and 2) on hard-fished rivers, something different often works.   To feebly illustrate: Using your Penn’s example, I could have shown you places in the early morning to hammer them with streamers, even in the lower waters. Also, large wets were working pretty well in the off peak times over the right water. I had a bit more local knowledge(and you and David rendered yourselves out of reach of where I was fishing most days,lest any readers think I was witholding advice).

Well, that was my first thought. You’re right about fishing waters you know well. Knowing them well and the comfort that gives, is one of their pleasures. On my home river, there are a number of small areas I know that fish use as feeding stations that are almost always ignored by other anglers. They are in nondiscript water that I found from watching the fish during low water conditions or dimpling during a hatch. On the other hand, new waters are exciting; from figuring out where and how to fish, to just being in a new beautiful place. Willi

Response:

Peter,   You make, as ever, good points. I think another couple are:1)knowledge of the river you are fishing often prevents bad theory in the first place and 2) on hard-fished rivers, something different often works.   To feebly illustrate: Using your Penn’s example, I could have shown you places in the early morning to hammer them with streamers, even in the lower waters. Also, large wets were working pretty well in the off peak times over the right water. I had a bit more local knowledge(and you and David rendered yourselves out of reach of where I was fishing most days,lest any readers think I was witholding advice).   For the other point, I once fished the Tulpehocken during a decent caddis emergence. I, and several others patiently tried adults, pupa and the like, to little effect. Some fella rolls through with a chartreuse Glo-bug and has browns of 18 inches or so chasing the thing. He landed 4 from the pool I was fishing and moved on…                                Tom L

Response:

I agree that persisting with a pre-planned method is often going to result in few or no fish especially if the conditions don’t warrant the method you’ve chosen. However, there are times, especially on my home river that I decide I’m going to catch fish on my terms or I won’t catch any. Sometimes I just want to fish a particular technique, catching lots of fish isn’t always the goal. Sometimes it’s fun to try and "will" a fish to take something that "shouldn’t" work. Willi

I agree – you know X will catch fish so you try Y just for shits & giggles.  Done it many times.  That’s for waters you know well, however my sins extend to waters that I know squat about.  It’s just a matter of not bringing too many preconceived notions to the water. You can’t hear what the water is telling you over the cacophony of your plans. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – and why over-planning can lead to a skunking. We all get skunked sometimes but the skunkings that really bug me are the ones where others around me are catching fish and I’m getting diddly.  I don’t enjoy the feeling of incompetence.  The penny has finally dropped as to why (and no, the incompetence isn’t it.) Duh!  Bingo!  Go with the flow instead or persisting with a pre-planned method.  It seems so blindingly obvious when I write it, but it’s so subtle to detect in real life.  We have to do some planning else we’d show up at the river with no rod but being too focused before leaving the house can saddle one with a goose egg. Perhaps I’m the only angler on the planet to do this, but I’m willing to bet I’m not.  From this point on, there will be at least one less.

I agree that persisting with a pre-planned method is often going to result in few or no fish especially if the conditions don’t warrant the method you’ve chosen. However, there are times, especially on my home river that I decide I’m going to catch fish on my terms or I won’t catch any. Sometimes I just want to fish a particular technique, catching lots of fish isn’t always the goal. Sometimes it’s fun to try and "will" a fish to take something that "shouldn’t" work. Willi

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Question:

I have a friend who’s been breaking my balls about how he’s been hooking up consistently with winter largemouths.(He’s a spin fisherman)The winters haven’t been very cold in the northeast lately so many lakes and ponds have yet to freeze over.I’ve tried a few different things with my flytackle but I haven’t been able to hook up.I did get a bass once two years ago,while fishing for hatcheries,using a large dry with a hares ear dropper size 12.If anyone out there is having sucess in this area I’d appreciate the info.I want to shove a nice size bass right in that smug bastards face.

Response:

Even if the water hasn’t frozen, you need to go deep and slow for these northern winter largemouths. Not really what you would call typical fly-fishing.  You might want to try a slow sinking line.  It would take forever to get your fly down into the strike zone but unlike a fast sink line you’ll be able to fish slowly and still keep the fly in the fish zone once it gets down there. A Carolina rigged plastic worm or salamander would be my recommendation. Mu

Response:

I am in the south fishing in temps of the 40’s.Tp our bass thats the same as hanging out wit Ms. Pauls. I go to a pattern I tie called a Crystal Puff. It is White long cactus chanille head with X lg bead chain eyes, with a tail of whit bucktail and crystal flash with wide white hackle feathers (3 together on each side) or my favorite silver badger feathers. All of this on a mustad 2/0 – 3/0 hook #7766 Fish it slow with quick darts. On days that the temp does rise look for flats and shoals with dark bottoms with EZ access to deep drop offs. They will come up to warm up there. Good luck. It has been working for me.

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Question:

Where is Talyllyn Lake

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dwyfor.ac.uk writes Has anyone had any experience of fly fishing on Talyllyn Lake?

Famous for it Olive hatches. — Bill http://www.graigroad.demon.co.uk

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Has anyone had any experience of fly fishing on Talyllyn Lake?

Response:

X-Deja-AN: 554202379 X-Priority: 3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Organization: Customer of Planet Online X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly I’ve not had the pleasure yet but hope to one day soon but I am told that it is a little difficult to book a boat, apart from that it is a wonderful lake and the fishing is excellent.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anyone had any experience of fly fishing on Talyllyn Lake?

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Does anyone have any experience of fishing on Talyllyn Lake?

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dwyfor.ac.uk writes Does anyone have any experience of fishing on Talyllyn Lake?

Not actually fished it, but know a man who has:-) I’ve been told the fishing is not that good these days, but what fish there are, will happily take an olive nymph or lake olive. I’d go for local B&B if you’re intent on staying in  the area for a day or two – Ty’n y Cornel is a bit pricey but good. The food is very good! — Bill

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Question:

More importantly, where does she fish, where are her favorite pools, and does she prefer wine or Scotch?  Godiva chocolates are always appropriate. Wayne to fish is human…to release divine. This is becoming another Urban Legend. Just who exactly is this phantom drop dead gorgeous fly fishing model? Names please! And just where is this cabin so when I’m in the neighborhood I can drop by and say "howdy, Ma’am". -John

Response:

Whoa, Charlie….let’s think this through a little bit.  Sure, I wouldn’t mind an afternoon on-stream with Lefty, but you distinctly said spending an *evening* with the model.  Want to reconsider?

Nope. You can spend an evening listening to someone talk about their makeup if you like, though. The next morning I’ll know a lot more about fishing and you’ll be convinced that if she hadn’t had to go home early to wash her hair, you could have scored<g. — Charlie…

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Hi all, I’ll go home and get the magazine from my wife this weekend and post whatever information it contains next Monday…  I’m only telling y’all what my wife told me!  If it’s not too long, maybe I’ll post excerpts from the article. Other than that, given a choice between spending the weekend with a model or Lefty Kreh, I’d definitely say I’d have to take Lefty.  That way I’d still be alive when I got home as it might be difficult to flyfish while my wife is shooting at me. Happy New Year! Tom This is becoming another Urban Legend. Just who exactly is this phantom drop dead gorgeous fly fishing model? Names please! And just where is this cabin so when I’m in the neighborhood I can drop by and say "howdy, Ma’am". -John

– Thomas Chou International Sensor Technology 3 Whatney Irvine, CA 92618 Ph: 949.452.9316 Fx: 949.452.9009 www.gotgas.com

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but if she is half the person Left is that would make a wonderful evening discussing fishign and tying! Thought I was gonna be rude there didn’t you <g Pierre – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Actually, I’d rather spend an evening with Lefty than with a fashion model. Not sure about Lefty in drag, though<g. — Charlie… Oh come now man, get your priorities straight.  I’d rather spend an "evening" with the model, I’d rather spend the weekend with Lefty. Oh am I in trouble when I get home tonight.  :-) Later,      - Ken

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EWWWWWWWWWWWWWW Charlie ol boy you just made a terrible mistake!!!! Sexist comments like that are really gonna bring the house down..Besides who says that natural beauty needs help?? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Whoa, Charlie….let’s think this through a little bit.  Sure, I wouldn’t mind an afternoon on-stream with Lefty, but you distinctly said spending an *evening* with the model.  Want to reconsider? Nope. You can spend an evening listening to someone talk about their makeup if you like, though. The next morning I’ll know a lot more about fishing and you’ll be convinced that if she hadn’t had to go home early to wash her hair, you could have scored<g. — Charlie…

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but if she is half the person Left is that would make a wonderful evening discussing fishign and tying! Thought I was gonna be rude there didn’t you <g Pierre

Actually, the comparison I was making was an evening with Lefty vs an evening with a ‘regular’ model, not the ‘mythical’ fishing lady in the ad. The supposition was made in an earlier post that the ad was a fake (since I haven’t seen it I have no opinion on that). Given the choice between the ‘fishing lady model’ and Lefty, I’d probably still go with Lefty though, but the choice would be more difficult<g. — Charlie…

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More importantly, where does she fish, where are her favorite pools, and does she prefer wine or Scotch?  Godiva chocolates are always appropriate.

OK, but what size hook should you tie the chocolates onto?  Standard nymph, wide-gape bassin’ hook, ram it onto the post on that funny Partridge parachute hook, or what?  Maybe a dry fly hook, and drown the whole concoction (confection? in Gink?  Inquiring minds…  :-) — Bob Jarvis Mail address hacked to foil spammers!

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EWWWWWWWWWWWWWW Charlie ol boy you just made a terrible mistake!!!! Sexist comments like that are really gonna bring the house down..Besides who says that natural beauty needs help??

Have you ever talked to a model, of either sex? The ones I have are mostly interested in their looks and the makeup that helps them ‘enhance’ their looks. My comment wasn’t intended to be sexist, just anti-model<g. Maybe I just ran into a few bad apples. — Charlie…

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This is becoming another Urban Legend. Just who exactly is this phantom drop dead gorgeous fly fishing model? Names please! And just where is this cabin so when I’m in the neighborhood I can drop by and say "howdy, Ma’am".

Not to worry, we’re trying to line her up as a "greeter" at our new flyfishing theme cafe next spring.  Dates and locations to be announced… Cheers, Tony Ritter

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But Tom….what a way to go!!! Wayne To fish is human…to release divine. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, I’ll go home and get the magazine from my wife this weekend and post whatever information it contains next Monday…  I’m only telling y’all what my wife told me!  If it’s not too long, maybe I’ll post excerpts from the article. Other than that, given a choice between spending the weekend with a model or Lefty Kreh, I’d definitely say I’d have to take Lefty.  That way I’d still be alive when I got home as it might be difficult to flyfish while my wife is shooting at me. Happy New Year! Tom This is becoming another Urban Legend. Just who exactly is this phantom drop dead gorgeous fly fishing model? Names please! And just where is this cabin so when I’m in the neighborhood I can drop by and say "howdy, Ma’am". -John — Thomas Chou International Sensor Technology 3 Whatney Irvine, CA 92618 Ph: 949.452.9316 Fx: 949.452.9009 www.gotgas.com

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Bob,     Its somethig akin to grappling catfish on the Mississippi.  Not a matter of a hook, although a good line doesn’t hurt.  Sometimes its more the line you cast than the bait you use. Wayne To fish is human…to release divine. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -OK, but what size hook should you tie the chocolates onto?  Standard nymph, wide-gape bassin’ hook, ram it onto the post on that funny Partridge parachute hook, or what?  Maybe a dry fly hook, and drown the whole concoction (confection? in Gink?  Inquiring minds…  :-) — Bob Jarvis Mail address hacked to foil spammers!

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Ladies! Feel free to wade in and help us out here! Wayne To fish is human…to release divine.

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Ladies! Feel free to wade in and help us out here!

Oh, I think you’re doing a splendid job! Okay, here’s a new topic. Hasanyone read that David Leitz murder mystery novel about the model photo shoot at a fly fishing lodge… here it is: _Dying to Fly Fish_? — Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Disclaimer: Pushing 40 and born in Fredericton, NB

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George G: like you – and me? George, dogs chase cars, but they don’t know how to drive. d;0) Dave L.

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JR, The main model for the Estee Lauder commercial *can* cast.  She has in fact devoted a great portion of her life to flyfishing.  The story goes like this (abbreviated, of course.  This is the story my wife told me she read in a recent mag article about this)…  She made some money modeling when she was younger, invested it well, and took up flyfishing with some other members of her family.  She is the only one who pursued it with a passion, which she still does, while the others gave it up.  She ties her own flies, owns a cabin by a river, she’s rich, and beautiful… and like I’ve said before, I’ve got dibs.  She is currently around 56 years old.  Now that’s a great looking 56 year old lady, don’t you think?! Hope this clears things up. Tom – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Saw the commercial while watching NYPD Blue.  Sorry guys, but anyone who says his streams in Alberta, N.C., wherever, are crawling with women who look like the model in this commercial, well, no offense, but he lies like a dog.  And her clothes (this all started about her clothes, no?)–well, I’m can’t remember what sort of clothes she had.  Pretty sure, though, that she was wearing clothes. The question is, is this babe a for real fly fisher or not?  The last, long, overhead shot shows a pretty good casting stroke, but this could have been a stand-in.  The stroke in the close-up shots is less convincing.  As for the other obvious questions, I leave those up to the congregation….. JR

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The main model for the Estee Lauder commercial *can* cast.  She has in fact devoted a great portion of her life to flyfishing.

David Hinner’s post of 12/30/98 credits Pixar Studios with the creative morphing of Lefty Kreh into the "Beaverkill Bombshell". Tom – he *does* have a wonderful sense of humor – but are you *sure* you still want that date? Cheers, Tony Ritter

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The main model for the Estee Lauder commercial *can* cast.  She has in fact devoted a great portion of her life to flyfishing. David Hinner’s post of 12/30/98 credits Pixar Studios with the creative morphing of Lefty Kreh into the "Beaverkill Bombshell". Tom – he *does* have a wonderful sense of humor – but are you *sure* you still want that date?

Actually, I’d rather spend an evening with Lefty than with a fashion model. Not sure about Lefty in drag, though<g. — Charlie…

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Actually, I’d rather spend an evening with Lefty than with a fashion model. Not sure about Lefty in drag, though<g. — Charlie…

Oh come now man, get your priorities straight.  I’d rather spend an "evening" with the model, I’d rather spend the weekend with Lefty. Oh am I in trouble when I get home tonight.  :-) Later,      - Ken

Response:

The main model for the Estee Lauder commercial *can* cast.  She has in fact devoted a great portion of her life to flyfishing.  The story goes like this (abbreviated, of course.  This is the story my wife told me she read in a recent mag article about this)…

At the risk of spreading disappointment and gloom, I must point out that not everything you read in a magazine, newspaper or book is Gospel Truth– especially stuff about movie stars, models, athletes, business firms, products, politicians….. Agents and PR firms earn their money by cranking out stuff to create interest in their clients and make them look good. vince norris  She made some money modeling when she was – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -younger, invested it well, and took up flyfishing with some other members of her family.  She is the only one who pursued it with a passion, which she still does, while the others gave it up.  She ties her own flies, owns a cabin by a river, she’s rich, and beautiful… and like I’ve said before, I’ve got dibs.  She is currently around 56 years old.  Now that’s a great looking 56 year old lady, don’t you think?! Hope this clears things up. Tom Saw the commercial while watching NYPD Blue.  Sorry guys, but anyone who says his streams in Alberta, N.C., wherever, are crawling with women who look like the model in this commercial, well, no offense, but he lies like a dog.  And her clothes (this all started about her clothes, no?)–well, I’m can’t remember what sort of clothes she had.  Pretty sure, though, that she was wearing clothes. The question is, is this babe a for real fly fisher or not?  The last, long, overhead shot shows a pretty good casting stroke, but this could have been a stand-in.  The stroke in the close-up shots is less convincing.  As for the other obvious questions, I leave those up to the congregation….. JR

Response:

Whoa, Charlie….let’s think this through a little bit.  Sure, I wouldn’t mind an afternoon on-stream with Lefty, but you distinctly said spending an *evening* with the model.  Want to reconsider? Mark Faulkner – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The main model for the Estee Lauder commercial *can* cast.  She has in fact devoted a great portion of her life to flyfishing. David Hinner’s post of 12/30/98 credits Pixar Studios with the creative morphing of Lefty Kreh into the "Beaverkill Bombshell". Tom – he *does* have a wonderful sense of humor – but are you *sure* you still want that date? Actually, I’d rather spend an evening with Lefty than with a fashion model. Not sure about Lefty in drag, though<g. — Charlie…

Response:

JR, The main model for the Estee Lauder commercial *can* cast.  She has in fact devoted a great portion of her life to flyfishing.  The story goes like this (abbreviated, of course.  This is the story my wife told me she read in a recent mag article about this)…  She made some money modeling when she was younger, invested it well, and took up flyfishing with some other members of her family.  She is the only one who pursued it with a passion, which she still does, while the others gave it up.  She ties her own flies, owns a cabin by a river, she’s rich, and beautiful… and like I’ve said before, I’ve got dibs.  She is currently around 56 years old.  Now that’s a great looking 56 year old lady, don’t you think?! Hope this clears things up. Tom snip

This is becoming another Urban Legend. Just who exactly is this phantom drop dead gorgeous fly fishing model? Names please! And just where is this cabin so when I’m in the neighborhood I can drop by and say "howdy, Ma’am". -John

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Bait for what, George?  They want us to buy Estee Lauder products?  OK, I’m going to find some, some…(some what?), I don’t know, some face cream or something, and see if it floats a fly better than Gink. Then I make a fortune, the model falls for me (and all my money), and we live and fish happily ever after.  Drinking Famous Grouse. …Fade out…. The End. (The crowd goes wild.) JR

"They," are the gutem & eatum boys.  THEY, want you to use garden hackle and sinful things like ‘indicators!’ (Perish the Thought!)  Then they want to catch you making out with that doll that’s been all Ginked up like a sweaty latin lover and print those pictures here on ROFF, heaven forbid!  Well, fear not J.R. because here comes Wayno, the barrister of all time to defend you. Naturally, his fee is going to be a case of Famous Grouse and as you sit there in handcuffs at the ROFF Conclave, we are all going to drink every bit of it while you watch.  But, again, fear not!  This Buds’ for you. (This group isn’t THAT cold hearted pal.) ; )  Don’t you just love it here J.R.? We sure enough love you. Happy New Year.  Remember always –  After midnight when you’ve got her all sauced up – ‘gink keeps it up’ oh my gosh, did I say that? whew!  Doesn’t get any better then this. HAPPPPPPPPPPYYYYYYYYYYY New Year J.R.! fade out because I just passed out. — George Gehrke All Writings

Question:

White’s Pond in Concord has great fly fishing.  I generally fish it Dave LaCourse

Thanks for the tip. I have fished Whites a couple of times, but with non-fly tackle, and have, in fact, caught rainbows and a brown. I have heard that fishing the deep dropoffs with a fly in summer works, but have not actually tried it. Both Hopkinton Res and Ashland Res are stocked as well, and I’ve been dying to try them. Steve

Response:

White’s Pond in Concord has great fly fishing.  I generally fish it Dave LaCourse Thanks for the tip. I have fished Whites a couple of times, but with non-fly tackle, and have, in fact, caught rainbows and a brown. I have heard that fishing the deep dropoffs with a fly in summer works, but have not actually tried it. Both Hopkinton Res and Ashland Res are stocked as well, and I’ve been dying to try them. Steve

Someone told me that Hopkington res. has lanlocked salmon. Is this true? Gary

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my opinion steve would be to fish these ponds when ever the sun is at its lowest point either in morning till 10 or in the eve till dark.for those ponds that contain brwns fish the shallows with any type of black stramer you have the black against a nite sky works well with them i could go into great detail but i just started typing and its driving crazy i think ill go to the pnd and relax byefor now

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Not true.  The state dumps in some of the spawned out Atlantic salmon brood stock from the Connecticuit/Merrimack salmon restoration program though.   Both the Wachusett and Quabbin have landlock populations and there is a good run on Wachusett tribs in the fall but it gets hammered by every sort of "fisherman" one could imagine and a few that can’t be believed. Even so, I always give it a try and have even landed two! Doug  

Response:

Someone told me that Hopkington res. has lanlocked salmon. Is this true? Gary

Some of the deeper res. are occasionally stocked with broodstock salmon (i.e. old salmon that are producing good eggs for the stocking program anymore.) I believe Hopkinton and Ashland are, and I know Middle Cochituate is. You can call 1-800-ask-fish and follow the voice menu to find out exactly which lakes were stocked this spring with broodstock salmon. Steve

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Question:

Looking for a  good campsite on a lake or river for fly fishing for trout in Denali,AK.  Will backpack a short distance to campsite.  Are there any cabins on lakes or rivers in or close by Denali that offer good fly fishing?  Thanks for your help!    

Response:

Try Every stream you come to you and you are sure to find some good fishing…. I was never dissapointed in Alaska..

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For Immediate Release Announcing the Boca Grande Fly fishing School’s November Session Where:  Uncle Henry’s Marina Resort in Boca Grande, Fl When:  November 14 thru 16, 1997 Levels of Experience: all levels, novice thru expert Class Size: max. 12 Instructors:  3 Theme:  "Learn to Fly Fish, not just Fly Cast" Special Features:       1. Actual fishing with your instructors 2. All instructors present at all times                         3. Minimum classroom time                         4. Instructional text book                         5. Finest Sage rods                         6. Saturday evening Bar-B-Que Includes:       1. All tackle                 2. Fishing license                 3. Lunch and refreshments                 4. Guided fishing with your instructor What to bring: hat, sunglasses, sunscreen, rain jacket, and a Sense of Humor Cost: $495.00 per angler (Family Rates available) Contact: Capt.. Pete Greenan 1-941-923-6095 or http://www.floridaflyfishing.com/FFSchools.html — http://www.floridaflyfishing.com

OK Tim, this is an ad so I consider it fair game!   — William J. Hobson, CNE,CNA Network and Computing Support Services Texas Engineering Experiment Station Phone: (409) 845-5808

Response:

PLEASE EVERY BODY dont wast your money on this, if you want real advise book a charter boat captian, they’ll teach you how to do all that with PRIVATE instruction and are usually CHEAPER. Here is one I know http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/toccoa/Default.htm#Captain -Paradoxal – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For Immediate Release Announcing the Boca Grande Fly fishing School’s November Session Where:  Uncle Henry’s Marina Resort in Boca Grande, Fl When:  November 14 thru 16, 1997 Levels of Experience: all levels, novice thru expert Class Size: max. 12 Instructors:  3 Theme:  "Learn to Fly Fish, not just Fly Cast" Special Features:       1. Actual fishing with your instructors 2. All instructors present at all times                         3. Minimum classroom time                         4. Instructional text book                         5. Finest Sage rods                         6. Saturday evening Bar-B-Que Includes:       1. All tackle                 2. Fishing license                 3. Lunch and refreshments                 4. Guided fishing with your instructor What to bring: hat, sunglasses, sunscreen, rain jacket, and a Sense of Humor Cost: $495.00 per angler (Family Rates available) Contact: Capt.. Pete Greenan 1-941-923-6095 or http://www.floridaflyfishing.com/FFSchools.html — http://www.floridaflyfishing.com

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For Immediate Release Announcing the Boca Grande Fly fishing School’s November Session Where:  Uncle Henry’s Marina Resort in Boca Grande, Fl When:  November 14 thru 16, 1997 Levels of Experience: all levels, novice thru expert Class Size: max. 12 Instructors:  3 Theme:  "Learn to Fly Fish, not just Fly Cast" Special Features:       1. Actual fishing with your instructors                         2. All instructors present at all times                         3. Minimum classroom time                         4. Instructional text book                         5. Finest Sage rods                         6. Saturday evening Bar-B-Que Includes:       1. All tackle                 2. Fishing license                 3. Lunch and refreshments                 4. Guided fishing with your instructor What to bring: hat, sunglasses, sunscreen, rain jacket, and a Sense of Humor Cost: $495.00 per angler (Family Rates available) Contact: Capt.. Pete Greenan 1-941-923-6095 or http://www.floridaflyfishing.com/FFSchools.html — http://www.floridaflyfishing.com

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Question:

Get Dick Brown’s book "Bonefish Fly Patterns". It will be a great help to you. Good Luck!

Response:

Hello all, can anyone suggest the flies I should use while fishing for Bonefish in the Carribbean in late June??  (Esp. the easiest ones to tie) Thanks in advance. Eric Meier

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Hello all, can anyone suggest the flies I should use while fishing for Bonefish in the Carribbean in late June??  (Esp. the easiest ones to tie) Thanks in advance. Eric Meier

Crazy Charlies are the most popular and simple patterns. I would tie pearl, gold, root beer, olive and pink. Use size mostly #4/6 in Mustad 3407 or 34007 hooks. Use #6/8 in Tiemco 800S or 811S hooks as they run a little bigger than Mustad. No eyes for Turtle grass bottoms. Bead chain eyes on some and chrome lead eyes on others for deeper sand bottoms or tide currents. Try to get a guide. You can call me at 800/4000FLY. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

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