Question:

Mike, I took you’re advice, cooked the arse end of the seat off, popped the spigot out, cleaned off the spigot and blank, epoxied the inside of the blank well, shoved the spigot in with a dowel, cleaned the epoxy off with alcohol, and then glued the reel seat back together again.  Elapsed time – a little over ten minutes. The East Branch rods are some of the prettiest out their, very good quality components, tubes, etc.  They’re superb fishing instruments as anyone who has one can attest.  But EB fell down on simple aspects of execution – both the spigot and the reel seat had very little glue on them – the reel seat came apart after only about 30 seconds in hot water.  By comparison, it took about ten minutes to cook the reel seat off my Cabelas Stowaway. The wraps at the end the ferrules are very sparse and probably contribute to much of the breakage.  Sometimes questionable guide placement contributed to the risk of breakage. It’s a pity that such nice rods were let down by such littler things. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Mike, I took you’re advice, cooked the arse end of the seat off, <SNIP Peter Visit The Streamer Page at

http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html I thought you would   Slapdash repairs are just disasters waiting to happen, and you do not seem the type who would risk that on decent fishing gear. If the rod is as nice as you say, I would certainly rewrap the ferrule ends etc, and carry out any other modifications required.  Sparse ferrule wrappings are indeed the cause of much breakage, loose ferrules also. It does not take much time really, and is invariably worth the trouble. If the spigot ( the part inside the rod butt section) is on the short side, I would give the blank here a generous wrapping as well. This sometimes ruins the symmetry of appearance, but saves a lot of buggering about usually. One may often compensate to a degree by lengthening other wraps to suit. Sparse, and overtight whippings are often a problem. If the whipping compresses or otherwise deforms the blank, then it is also a disaster waiting to happen. Somebody mentioned that this manufacturer used "Elmers Glue", I am not familiar with this, but having experimented quite a lot with various things, I would never use anything other than the various epoxy grades for rod repairs nowadays. Even though I only do repairs for friends etc, and not for money, they would doubtless not be too enthusiastic about failures caused by shoddy work. (Perhaps I should mess up a few repairs? it would reduce my workload ! I have always maintained that the main difference between relatively cheap, and relatively expensive rods, is the cosmetics, and the care taken in production.  If you wrap and otherwise build up even a cheap blank with good hardware etc, then you invariably have a reliable and long lived fishing tool,.  Nice if the action etc suits you as well of course ! Rather a shame that a manufacturer should skimp on such relatively simple things, and thus fold. Especially one who otherwise seemed OK. TL MC

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mike, I took you’re advice, cooked the arse end of the seat off, <SNIP Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html I thought you would   Slapdash repairs are just disasters waiting to happen, and you do not seem the type who would risk that on decent fishing gear. [snip] Rather a shame that a manufacturer should skimp on such relatively simple things, and thus fold. Especially one who otherwise seemed OK. TL MC

Greg was just being sarcastic with the Elmer’s glue comment – he too is an EB customer with a story or two to tell.  The wraps and stripper guide positions on mine seem OK but Greg had a great EB rod snap due to a combination of stripper guide placement and insufficient wraps. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Somebody mentioned that this manufacturer used "Elmers Glue", I am not familiar with this

Elmer’s Glue is a simple water soluble white glue.  It’s manufactured by Borden’s which is a big dairy company.  Their company logos are Elsie the Cow (on dairy products) and Elmer the Bull (on glue products).  Elmer’s primary ingredient used to be casein, milk protein.  It’s a decent glue on porous materials as long as it stays dry. One of the cool things you can do with it is coat your skin (it dries clear) and freak people out by peeling it off in big sheets.  Probably every American school kid has done that. –Stan OBROFF – Elmer’s is a terrible fly floatant.

Response:

<SNIP –Stan OBROFF – Elmer’s is a terrible fly floatant.

Maybe it is a good sinkant?  :) Thanks for the info Stan.  Sometimes quite a problem explaining just exactly what proprietary products are, makes some things very difficult to understand properly. TL MC

Response:

Peter why not contact East Branch??? I talked to the guy at the Marlboro flyfishing show, and he seems a good guy. would probably be a minimal charge or none for such a repair. and you’ll have someone doing it with all the right tools. if they mess it up, you’ll probably get a new rod.   TD – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just had the butt section spigot come unglued on one rod (wants to slip back into the butt) and the re-gluing will be an adventure.  I’m thinking of getting some R/C model airplane CA glue (extremely watery) that will penetrate the full length of the spigot.  I doubt there’s enough space for me to get any appreciable amounts of epoxy in there. Anybody ever try using CA glue on a rod repair. (ya Greg, it’s East Branch – the 4 wt.) Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html If you can do so, it is better to remove the spigot altogether. It is usually possible to push it straight down the butt section, and after removing the butt cap, simply push it out. Using a fine round file or similar, and being careful not to remove any rod material, clean out the tip of the butt section, of any glue remnants etc. Clean the spigot as well.   Then, using a piece of dowel, long thin steel rod,  or similar, apply epoxy to the inside of the butt tip, and simply push the spigot back into place using a long thin steel rod or similar.  This works well, and is a permanent and reliable repair. CA glue is not reliable for repairs on flexing parts. The bond invariably cracks, usually quite quickly. If you wish to try it, warming up slow drying epoxy makes it extremely "runny", at least as runny as CA glue. It also decreases the setting time a great deal, so be careful.  Just pour this carefully around the spigot.  I have only ever tried this once, and it worked OK. ( I was unable to remove the spigot entirely ). One last possibility is to cover the spigot itself in epoxy, and carefully rotate and push this back down into the rod. Hold the tip of the spigot with a pair of pliers or similar, and be extremely careful not to let go of it. When the epoxy is distributed, just pull the spigot back into place, and remove the excess epoxy, using alcohol or similar. TL MC

Response:

As a builder of r/c airplane models: in fact there is very little flex involved in most airframes (nor is flex desired). We try to build out flex as it detracts from precise control. Beyond that, the glue joints in an airframe are almost always stronger than the materials being joined (given that usually those materials are wood). And for joints that really need to be strong (firewalls, gear mounting blocks,  wing joins, etc)  we definitely use epoxy – and the slower the set, the better… /daytripper (check out my Super Chipmunk at http://www.ultranet.com/~haigt/rcstuff/chipmunk.html ) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you can do so, it is better to remove the spigot altogether. It is usually possible to push it straight down the butt section, and after removing the butt cap, simply push it out. Using a fine round file or similar, and being careful not to remove any rod material, clean out the tip of the butt section, of any glue remnants etc. Clean the spigot as well.   Then, using a piece of dowel, long thin steel rod,  or similar, apply epoxy to the inside of the butt tip, and simply push the spigot back into place using a long thin steel rod or similar.  This works well, and is a permanent and reliable repair. This had been my initial instincts but being fundamentally lazy, I was looking for an easy alternative. CA glue is not reliable for repairs on flexing parts. The bond invariably cracks, usually quite quickly. There’s a lot of flexing in R/C model airplanes yet I’ve never heard of glue joint failure with CA glues.  Perhaps these glues are a bit different?  The butt on this rod is quite hefty (10 1/2 footer) – there isn’t much flex in it. If you wish to try it, warming up slow drying epoxy makes it extremely "runny", at least as runny as CA glue. It also decreases the setting time a great deal, so be careful.  Just pour this carefully around the spigot.  I have only ever tried this once, and it worked OK. ( I was unable to remove the spigot entirely ). One last possibility is to cover the spigot itself in epoxy, and carefully rotate and push this back down into the rod. Hold the tip of the spigot with a pair of pliers or similar, and be extremely careful not to let go of it. When the epoxy is distributed, just pull the spigot back into place, and remove the excess epoxy, using alcohol or similar. TL MC Thanks Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As a builder of r/c airplane models: in fact there is very little flex involved in most airframes (nor is flex desired). We try to build out flex as it detracts from precise control. Beyond that, the glue joints in an airframe are almost always stronger than the materials being joined (given that usually those materials are wood). And for joints that really need to be strong (firewalls, gear mounting blocks,  wing joins, etc)  we definitely use epoxy – and the slower the set, the better… /daytripper (check out my Super Chipmunk at http://www.ultranet.com/~haigt/rcstuff/chipmunk.html )

You in that racket too.  I’ve been building the things off and on since the sixties.  You’re right of course, we don’t want flex but you can be sure that the airframe and wings are really "working" in gusty conditions or when pulling G (or when hitting the ground.)  I have an old bird built in ‘77 with white glue that has held together well, except for the control hinges.  I have a couple of new ones done with CA and so far, so good –  mind you, I haven’t had them out in the last couple of years.

Response:

. There’s a lot of flexing in R/C model airplanes yet I’ve never heard of glue joint failure with CA glues.  Perhaps these glues are a bit different?  The butt on this rod is quite hefty (10 1/2 footer) – there isn’t much flex in it.

My neighbour builds radio controlled model aeroplanes, and he also uses CA glue for some things. I just had a word with him, and he tells me that the stuff he uses also cracks easily apparently.  Most of the flex is in the airframe itself, the actual joints are rigid.  He says that even a mild "crash" will crack CA joints. He also says that this is actually often desirable, as the cracking of the glue joints apparently acts as a sort of shock absorber, and the actual glued parts are not damaged, and may simply be glued again. I don

Question:

(Finland is bigger than it looks on the map!!)

I certainly hope so! On my map it looks like it’s about two square inches. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Anybody knows if there are any good flyfishing possibilities in Finland ? Robbie

Response:

Finland is a great place to fish. Not been there (yet), but a good Finnish friend of mine keeps pushing me to visit him. So no first hand experience, but sure hope to be able to provide you with some! From what I gathered from his fishing stories there are very good possibilities to fish for trout, seatrout and salmon. If you need some more specific info, and know in what part of the country you’ll be staying (Finland is bigger than it looks on the map!!) I could inquire up north. Some links: http://gamma.nic.fi/~outdoor/ http://www.kotka.fi/~huusko/index2.html Anybody knows if there are any good flyfishing possibilities in Finland ? Robbie

–         Cheers, Herman         Herman Nijland         Daytime webmaster         Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

Question:

return more hits on "scotch" than on "steelhead".   (I might actually try that.)

Joe please do not ever see how many hits you get about bluegill. Most respectfuly requested. Big Dale

Response:

Dejanews is a service which stores and indexes most if not all all usenet posts. Incredible, come to think of it. If you ever goof up in here, it won’t be forgotten.. Altavista has a Usenet search enigine too, I haven’t really compared it with the Deja service yet. Herman, having one or two unpleasant memories in the archives.. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Where is deja.news and how do you access it? I’d be willing to bet that a deja news search of ROFF will return more hits on "scotch" than on "steelhead".   (I might actually try that.) I was wrong.   (There’s something you won’t hear often here, Brian.) "Steelhead" appeared in 1,095 posts in the last 12 months; while I had to allow "malt" as well as "scotch" to bring that total up to a creditable, if distant, 495.   (It’s luchtime and I had a few minutes, okay?) Joe F.

– Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

Hello all, I am new to this group.  I just found it the other day, and I have been very impressed by the courtesy and information found here (unlike a lot of Usenet). I have recently moved to Vancouver WA (just across the Columbia from Portland) from Wisconsin to follow my wife (good idea). Over the past several years, my father-in-law has made sure that I got out here to fish the Deschuttes with him.  Until I walked in that water, I had not know true trout.  We would put in at Trout Creek and take out 4 days later at Harpham Flats.  Normally we went during the salmon fly hatch (it is quite a thing having a "Redsides" take such a big bug). Needless to say, now that we have moved here, we have done a lot more fishing and my wife has wished a pox on the two of us for how much we are spending! To the point – On Sept. 24th, I am returning the favor and taking her father on the Deschuttes for a 4 day Steelhead trip.  I have never fished for them before, and I am very excited.  Any advice you all have would be greatly appreciated.  I already made the mistake (sort of – I got some great gear) of going to Kaufman’s and saying "I am going Steelhead fishing…what do I need?"  $1200 later I was out the door and ready for action (since I don’t drink I have to spend the money somewhere). Anyway, now that I have spewed all over this message, I would like to thank in advance for your help, and advice. Brian Blazer http://www.blazertechnologies.com

Response:

I am new to this group.  I just found it the other day, and I have been very impressed by the courtesy and information found here  <snip

Damn, are we doing that again? Welcome aboard, although we’re going to have to work on that not drinking thing.   I’d be willing to bet that a deja news search of ROFF will return more hits on "scotch" than on "steelhead".   (I might actually try that.) Seriously though, welcome.   Thicken your skin and jump in.   It ain’t always that cordial; but it’s always fun. Joe F.

Response:

Where is deja.news and how do you access it?

Deja News is at www.deja.com; but it’s easier to get specific answers if you use their "power search" at  www.deja.com/home_ps.shtml. Joe F.

Response:

Why do you persist in omitting "meniscus"?   Besides, I said a few minutes, not a few days.  :-)

meniscus?  What means?

Response:

Why do you persist in omitting "meniscus"?   Besides, I said a few minutes, not a few days.  :-) meniscus?  What means?

You know, that interface between the beer and the foam.   Recently mentioned in a remarkable 110 posts. Joe F.

Response:

meniscus?  What means? You know, that interface between the beer and the foam.   Recently mentioned in a remarkable 110 posts.

Mmmmmmm, BEER!  Now you’re speaking my language.  110 posts, really?  Wow, makes me feel like an influential guy.  Anybody care to define fly?

Response:

Mmmmmmm, BEER!  Now you’re speaking my language.  110 posts, really?  Wow, makes me feel like an influential guy.  Anybody care to define fly?

Sure.   It’s what men think with.  :-) Joe F.

Response:

To the point – On Sept. 24th, I am returning the favor and taking her father on the Deschuttes for a 4 day Steelhead trip.  I have never fished for them before, and I am very excited.  Any advice you all have would be greatly appreciated. Anyway, now that I have spewed all over this message, I would like to thank in advance for your help, and advice. Brian Blazer http://www.blazertechnologies.com

Brian, The Deschutes is spelled like what I wrote.   It sounds like the folks at Kaffmans got you all set up.   Your guide will do the rest with the type of fly’s that you should use.   If I only had one fly and was going to the Deschutes I would have a Frieght Train tied on to the leader.   Be sure to use a wading staff for you and your dad, it will save your butt from falling in so many times.  But when you do fall in keep your feet pointing down river, that will save your life. Sharp Hooks, Pat Holdzit Fishing Products Inc. http://www.holdzit.com Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …..(It’s luchtime and I had a few minutes, okay?) If you’ve got a few more minutes Joe please try: bastard loon PETA dam C&R C&K If you STILL have time on your hands I’ll try to come up with a more comprehensive list!

Why do you persist in omitting "meniscus"?   Besides, I said a few minutes, not a few days.  :-) Joe F.

Response:

I’d be willing to bet that a deja news search of ROFF will return more hits on "scotch" than on "steelhead".   (I might actually try that.)

I was wrong.   (There’s something you won’t hear often here, Brian.) "Steelhead" appeared in 1,095 posts in the last 12 months; while I had to allow "malt" as well as "scotch" to bring that total up to a creditable, if distant, 495.   (It’s luchtime and I had a few minutes, okay?) Joe F.

Response:

I’d be willing to bet that a deja news search of ROFF will return more hits on "scotch" than on "steelhead".   (I might actually try that.) I was wrong.   (There’s something you won’t hear often here, Brian.) "Steelhead" appeared in 1,095 posts in the last 12 months; while I had to allow "malt" as well as "scotch" to bring that total up to a creditable, if distant, 495.   (It’s luchtime and I had a few minutes, okay?) Joe F.

Thanks for the welcome… Maybe there are more posts about steelhead because of the few posts about scotch?  Or maybe the quantity of steelhead posts are because of the ammount of scotch? Brian http://www.blazertechnologies.com

Response:

…..(It’s luchtime and I had a few minutes, okay?)

If you’ve got a few more minutes Joe please try: bastard loon PETA dam C&R C&K If you STILL have time on your hands I’ll try to come up with a more comprehensive list!

Response:

Where is deja.news and how do you access it? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’d be willing to bet that a deja news search of ROFF will return more hits on "scotch" than on "steelhead".   (I might actually try that.) I was wrong.   (There’s something you won’t hear often here, Brian.) "Steelhead" appeared in 1,095 posts in the last 12 months; while I had to allow "malt" as well as "scotch" to bring that total up to a creditable, if distant, 495.   (It’s luchtime and I had a few minutes, okay?) Joe F.

Response:

Question:

I have offered flies occasionally, but usually only do so when asked, and I would never try to give anybody casting lessons etc unasked, I think this might be akin to asking for a punch on the nose.  The skill or lack of it which one possesses, is a very personal thing, criticising a complete stranger is a no no in my opinion. TL MC

Response:

I have offered flies occasionally, but usually only do so when asked, and I would never try to give anybody casting lessons etc unasked, I think this might be akin to asking for a punch on the nose.  The skill or lack of it which one possesses, is a very personal thing, criticising a complete stranger is a no no in my opinion.

And you know that no matter how carefully one was to couch any assistance to avoid it being taken as criticism, the risk is still high that someone’s feelings are going to be injured. I just don’t see the high-percentage up-side to offering unsolicited casting assistance. And frankly, I’m on the water to enjoy myself, not to risk the ire of a flogger… /daytripper

Response:

I only help when asked (fly choices, where, ect).  I have never given casting lessons while I am trying to fish nor do I plan to start that practice. I can understand wanting to be helpful and all, but let a beginner plot their own course. Some of the best lessons I have learned on my own.  If it is someone you know (like I just taught my brother), then don’t plan on fishing much and sure as hell don’t show off your expertise and catch a lot of fish using the same fly, in the same place.  That will just them turn them off thinking they are a failure. Warren

Response:

I tell you truly, I try not to intrude. Women are more willing to take advice about it, naturally, but even they have to make at least one plaintive eye-contact before I’ll offer up a fly or a suggestion. If they want help, they’ll tell you somehow. W.E.S. Harman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Many of us have been on a stream or lake and watched a beginner thrash the water in frustration. Bad casting or presentation culminating in a temper tantrum and no fish caught. The question is do you offer help, or stay the hell away? I have helped a few people (usually young men or woman) by offering them a fly and maybe one little hint about their cast. I’ve usually been greeted with despirate thanks.  For adult males its usually like approaching a mad bear. I’ve often been told to go get f**ed. Do any of you have tactics to approach new fisherman with a little advice?  My only success is usually to catch 10 fish under their nose and let them ask what am I doing. For you new to fly fishers,  I’d suggest that you do approach more accomplished fisherman on the stream for advise or fly selection. As soon at your told the secret is a 16 calibaetis emerger and you give a blank look, the fisherman will usually get more basic without you needing to ask the obvious question. Watch the guy fishing for a while before you ask what fly since its seldom the fly but how he/she is fishing that makes the real difference. Is he fishing upstream or across, in the seems or off the bank, wet or dry, with extra weight or not, with a dropper or single fly, dead drift, slow or fast retrieve???

Response:

I tell you truly, I try not to intrude. Women are more willing to take advice about it, naturally, but even they have to make at least one plaintive eye-contact before I’ll offer up a fly or a suggestion. If they want help, they’ll tell you somehow.

I wish I could get any eye contact from any women on the stream, then again I have yet to see a woman on the stream : ( Tim Apple — "Bamboo is Better"

Response:

Many of us have been on a stream or lake and watched a beginner thrash the water in frustration. Bad casting or presentation culminating in a temper tantrum and no fish caught. The question is do you offer help, or stay the hell away?

Snip<<< Generally, I’ll laugh out loud a few times and then start in with the verbal haranguing. "Nice tailing loop, loser! froth up the water a little more. Where’d you learn to cast, the Walt Winter school of casting. I’ve seen better back casts on a drunken, cross eyed bait dunker!" I have found this to be very helpful…… Matt M.

Response:

Whassis, Matt?  Smoking that stuff again?  And, Im NOT cross eyed! Myoptic, yes, but strabismus, not!  And HEY, I tyed my own shoes!  A *real* guide would show a little humility.  The lessons are worth the Tom — Tom Brown The Signal Group Wake Forest, NC – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Snip<<< Generally, I’ll laugh out loud a few times and then start in with the verbal haranguing. "Nice tailing loop, loser! froth up the water a little more. Where’d you learn to cast, the Walt Winter school of casting. I’ve seen better back casts on a drunken, cross eyed bait dunker!" I have found this to be very helpful…… Matt M.

Response:

I went out to my home river last night at about 7:30 to fish the evening hatch. I was fishing a run that usually holds some good fish when there’s a hatch on. They come out of a deep pool down below to feed in the shallower, swifter water. I’ve been fishing this stretch of the river for about fifteen years and feel I know it very well. A young, blonde woman in hippers was fishing upstream and saw me catch a couple of little ones. She came down to ask me what I was using.  I gave her a couple of flies, showed her one of the mayflies the trout were feeding on and wished her luck.  She then told me that the fish were rising "like crazy" in the pool down below but she couldn’t wade out far enough because she was too short. I explained to her that there was a school of very small Browns that surface feed in the pool every evening but that the better fish move up into the head of the pool and into the run I was fishing. Fishing was fairly slow where I was and there was only about fifteen minutes left before I couldn’t see my fly any more. So I thought I’d go down stream and catch a few of those "little browns" that were rising "like crazy."  When I got there, they WERE rising like crazy and were feeding on the same small dun mayfly that was hatching in the run above. On the second or third cast, I had a solid take. Expecting a little Brown, I wasn’t ready for the strong down stream run and I broke off the fish. A few minutes later I got another hook up, I was a little better prepared and after a nice battle landed a Rainbow of about 16". It was then pretty dark, but the fish were still rising. Although I couldn’t see my fly, I could make out the rise forms, so I took a few more casts and hooked and landed a Rainbow that was pushing 20".   Nice way to end the evening but I had another little treat in store. Wading back to shore I tripped on a boulder and took a dunking. While I was swearing at myself for being so stupid, I thought about my conversation with the young woman. She gave me a nice evening of fishing and I felt like an ass for being such a know it all. Willi

Response:

Tim,    The last woman I saw on a trout stream was when I was fly fishing up the middle of a small stream and came around a large rock and there was a woman nude sun bathing on her back with her feet pointed at me.  I expected her to grab a towel or roll over, but she just watched me fish on through.  I don’t know if I got any strikes in the next twenty yards or not. Ernie Harrison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I wish I could get any eye contact from any women on the stream, then again I have yet to see a woman on the stream : ( Tim Apple

Response:

Tim,    The last woman I saw on a trout stream was when I was fly fishing up the middle of a small stream and came around a large rock and there was a woman nude sun bathing on her back with her feet pointed at me.  I expected her to grab a towel or roll over, but she just watched me fish on through.  I don’t know if I got any strikes in the next twenty yards or not. Ernie Harrison

Yes, but did you get a rise ? TL MC

Response:

What ? a beginner trashing water in frustration ? Most of the people I see on streams fish like this: ^^^^^ back-cast … splash … forward cast … splash (repeat about 10 times to get 40 yards out) drag drag drag. Ok, just kidding. I sometimes offer flies when asked what I am using.  Sometimes I relinquish my spot if I sense that the other angler feels that I have the best spot and he is fishing dead water. A slightly different problem is the lack of stream etiquette that beginners seem to have. I rarely had a problem sharing streams with old timers, however, new fishermen are often a pain in the butt.  Aside for people moving close to me and cast at the same trout I am working on, I had people crossing streams just where I was, or, in some cases, going near the place I was casting to, to see if there was a trout there …. What do you do in those cases ?  I usually move to the next pool: the few times I made a comment about the behaviour, I received blank stares in return. Now, as FF has become increasingly popular with wealthier people in the recent years, who often buy Orvis stuff, I wonder if the dislike that this group has shown towards Orvis is really due to the dislike of new fishermen lacking stream etiquette and dressed in rather expensive outfits ….. -Vittorio – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Many of us have been on a stream or lake and watched a beginner thrash the water in frustration. Bad casting or presentation culminating in a temper tantrum and no fish caught. The question is do you offer help, or stay the hell away? I have helped a few people (usually young men or woman) by offering them a fly and maybe one little hint about their cast. I’ve usually been greeted with despirate thanks.  For adult males its usually like approaching a mad bear. I’ve often been told to go get f**ed. Do any of you have tactics to approach new fisherman with a little advice?  My only success is usually to catch 10 fish under their nose and let them ask what am I doing. For you new to fly fishers,  I’d suggest that you do approach more accomplished fisherman on the stream for advise or fly selection. As soon at your told the secret is a 16 calibaetis emerger and you give a blank look, the fisherman will usually get more basic without you needing to ask the obvious question. Watch the guy fishing for a while before you ask what fly since its seldom the fly but how he/she is fishing that makes the real difference. Is he fishing upstream or across, in the seems or off the bank, wet or dry, with extra weight or not, with a dropper or single fly, dead drift, slow or fast retrieve???

Response:

ah, mike…that must be the germanic influence engorging your brit nature…soon you’ll be postin about teen-y flies… jeff (worshiping at the mons venus) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Tim,    The last woman I saw on a trout stream was when I was fly fishing up the middle of a small stream and came around a large rock and there was a woman nude sun bathing on her back with her feet pointed at me.  I expected her to grab a towel or roll over, but she just watched me fish on through.  I don’t know if I got any strikes in the next twenty yards or not. Ernie Harrison Yes, but did you get a rise ? TL MC

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you mean all that stuff walt taught me was wrong?  he said it was in the orvis book… jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Many of us have been on a stream or lake and watched a beginner thrash the water in frustration. Bad casting or presentation culminating in a temper tantrum and no fish caught. The question is do you offer help, or stay the hell away? Snip<<< Generally, I’ll laugh out loud a few times and then start in with the verbal haranguing. "Nice tailing loop, loser! froth up the water a little more. Where’d you learn to cast, the Walt Winter school of casting. I’ve seen better back casts on a drunken, cross eyed bait dunker!" I have found this to be very helpful…… Matt M.

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Tim,    The last woman I saw on a trout stream was when I was fly fishing up the middle of a small stream and came around a large rock and there was a woman nude sun bathing on her back with her feet pointed at me.  I expected her to grab a towel or roll over, but she just watched me fish on through.  I don’t know if I got any strikes in the next twenty yards or not. Ernie Harrison

Mr. G.   ‘all’s fair with fur or feather’ http://www.gink.com http://www.rodbuilding.com http://www.xink.com 509-243-4100 or 5500

Question:

As a keen fly fisherman in the UK my knowledge of US river’s is very limited. I have been offered the chance to join a trip to North Conway in New Hampshire sometime around June ‘98. The only river that I know to be close by is the Saco. Can anyone tell me :- Is there any trout in it and can they be caught? How is it best fished? What sort of tackle is required? Is there any other water’s (river or lake) near to N. Conway that are fished using the fly? Is there any other advise anyone can give me? Thanks in advance for any help. — Steve Patrick

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As a keen fly fisherman in the UK my knowledge of US river’s is very limited. I have been offered the chance to join a trip to North Conway in New Hampshire sometime around June ‘98. The only river that I know to be close by is the Saco. Can anyone tell me :- Is there any trout in it and can they be caught?

Depends on your skills… How is it best fished?

A flyrod is the most effective way to do this. What sort of tackle is required?

Depending on the water, but I would take a 3wt and a 5 or 6 wt. Is there any other water’s (river or lake) near to N. Conway that are fished using the fly?

You are in the beautiful White Mountain area with nearly thousands of streams, lakes, and ponds in one of the most beautiful areas of New Hampshire. Go to the flyshop in North Conway and ask the guys there, they can tell you where to go best and what hatches you can expect at that time of the year (they usually list the most popular rivers with their hatches on a board outside the store and will be pleased to tell you more if you buy a couple flies etc out of courtesy, the guys are very nice- I think they also guide). Within 30 min drive you find several nice ponds in the Frankonia Notch area, it’s good to have a belly boat there and you can catch beautiful brookies. South of where you are located you can find the Bearcamp which is a beauty that holds Brookes, Brows, and Rainbows. If you are driving up from Boston make shure you stop at the Merrimack (look for salmon) and the Neufound river (can’t remember the exit, but it’s right from I93- salmon and hugh trout) and very close to the White Mountains. Otherwise, stop at the Ranger station, they can give you tips for remote hike-in ponds, there is a National Forest Map with all the ponds in it, including some fly fishing only ponds. Amonoosuc River (sp?) at Twin Mountains is also a pretty place that holds big rainbows. Don’t forget the C&R stretch of the Ellis River. If you have more questions, just mail back. Thomas Is there any other advise anyone can give me? Thanks in advance for any help. — Steve Patrick

– Thomas Urbig

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Question:

Hello. Can anyone provide the genus/species of a mayfly currently hatching here in Vermont. The fly is white, emerges at dusk in large groups, essentially immediately turns into a spinner and kind of "dances" an inch or so above the surface.  They are really common, and I’m sure this is a really basic question… but I’d like to know. thanks. john

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Can anyone provide the genus/species of a mayfly currently hatching here in Vermont. The fly is white, emerges at dusk in large groups, essentially immediately turns into a spinner and kind of "dances" an inch or so above the surface.  They are really common, and I’m sure this is a really basic question… but I’d like to know.

Perhaps Ephoron leukon.  It must be too late for Potamanthus. Photographs of both are probably in Swisher/Richards or Caucci/Nastasi. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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Can anyone provide the genus/species of a mayfly currently hatching here in Vermont. The fly is white, emerges at dusk in large groups, essentially immediately turns into a spinner and kind of "dances" an inch or so above the surface.  They are really common, and I’m sure this is a really basic question… but I’d like to know.

John, It is the Ephoron leukon. James Ehlers Uncle Jammer’s Guide Service Vermont Fly Fishing, Hunting, River and Woodland Outings http://pobox.com/~uncle

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 The fish key on those bad boys don’t they !  White seems to be a major trigger from my experience… — TimW Halfordian Golfer UNCLEJAMVT wrote in article – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Can anyone provide the genus/species of a mayfly currently hatching here in Vermont. The fly is white, emerges at dusk in large groups, essentially immediately turns into a spinner and kind of "dances" an inch or so above the surface.  They are really common, and I’m sure this is a really basic question… but I’d like to know. John, It is the Ephoron leukon. James Ehlers Uncle Jammer’s Guide Service Vermont Fly Fishing, Hunting, River and Woodland Outings http://pobox.com/~uncle

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can anyone provide the genus/species of a mayfly currently hatching here in Vermont. The fly is white, emerges at dusk in large groups, essentially immediately turns into a spinner and kind of "dances" an inch or so above the surface.  They are really common, and I’m sure this is a really basic question… but I’d like to know. John, It is the Ephoron leukon. James Ehlers Uncle Jammer’s Guide Service Vermont Fly Fishing, Hunting, River and Woodland Outings http://pobox.com/~uncle

Hey there, Jim.  My son and I have been fishing the Winooski in the riffles above the tressle the last few days and when these white flies are out the place comes alive with "jumping" fish. We can dap, plunk cast, drag free float over these fish without a look. How do you sucessfully fish this "event"? BHB — Remove "send_no_spam_" from address for e-mail response. Barkley Bull =

Response:

Hello. Can anyone provide the genus/species of a mayfly currently hatching here in Vermont. The fly is white, emerges at dusk in large groups, essentially immediately turns into a spinner and kind of "dances" an inch or so above the surface.

Dear John: Ephron Leukon: i.e. White Fly.  They were the 1st mayfly hatch documented in "the Colonies" by ole’ Tom J. himself Jason Beary

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  Hey there, Jim.  My son and I have been fishing the Winooski in the riffles above the tressle the last few days and when these white flies are out the place comes alive with "jumping" fish. We can dap, plunk cast, drag free float over these fish without a look. How do you sucessfully fish this "event"?

I don’t think the whitefly event is the only event going on.  The fish are definitely jumping up for the skittering egg layers, but there is also some emerger feeding for sure.  I don’t know it’s the same species or not.  The "dancing" egg-layer is definitely hard to imitate, but I’ve had some success with a White Wulff size 12 and 14.  In the riffles, the floats are pretty short anyway (before you get drag), so I guess it is kind of a dap and plunk.  I have had no success imitating the emerger event however.  Various wet flies have been working, but not during what seems to be a highly selective evening "event". For e-mail responses, remove the "Spam_Stopper_" from my return address before sending.

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Hey there, Jim.  My son and I have been fishing the Winooski in the riffles above the tressle the last few days and when these white flies are out the place comes alive with "jumping" fish. We can dap, plunk cast, drag free float over these fish without a look. How do you sucessfully fish this "event"?

White soft hackle….let swing and line tighten in the riffle….slowly(and I mean slowly) raise and lower the rod tip as if the emerger is trying to break the film, fails and tumbles back down.  Good luck. Interested to know how you do. James Ehlers Uncle Jammer’s Guide Service Vermont Fly Fishing, Hunting, River and Woodland Outings http://pobox.com/~uncle

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Is that YOU there?? I’ve been down lower in the pools (and up higher by the rocks..). Nice to cyberly meet you.  I can get a fish or 2 to take on a white dry (a little smaller than natural), but only at the VERY beginning of the hatch. Later a spinner (white, same size) fished dry with a twitch or two can get a take. BUT, I also think the main event is subsurface.  I’m going to try chucking a nymph (tied with a lighter-colored fluffier wing case) upstream from the hatch, letting it go dead drift into the rises (leaps!) and then bring it to the surface right in front of the fish. john – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   Hey there, Jim.  My son and I have been fishing the Winooski in the riffles above the tressle the last few days and when these white flies are out the place comes alive with "jumping" fish. We can dap, plunk cast, drag free float over these fish without a look. How do you sucessfully fish this "event"? I don’t think the whitefly event is the only event going on.  The fish are definitely jumping up for the skittering egg layers, but there is also some emerger feeding for sure.  I don’t know it’s the same species or not.  The "dancing" egg-layer is definitely hard to imitate, but I’ve had some success with a White Wulff size 12 and 14.  In the riffles, the floats are pretty short anyway (before you get drag), so I guess it is kind of a dap and plunk.  I have had no success imitating the emerger event however.  Various wet flies have been working, but not during what seems to be a highly selective evening "event".

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SNIP . How do you sucessfully fish this "event"? White soft hackle….let swing and line tighten in the riffle….slowly(and I mean slowly) raise and lower the rod tip as if the emerger is trying to break the film, fails and tumbles back down.  Good luck. Interested to know how you do.

I think this is good advice. Ive been near the trestle several days this last week and these fish are either jumping clear and taking spinners 2-3" above the surface (exciting to watch) OR are working benaeth the surface. Dun or spinner floating are simply refused (at least in my experience). THis limits me, at least, to an emerger. BUT, If anyone knows how to keep a spinner 2" above the surface and never land it, Id like to take lessons!! john

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these fish are either jumping clear and taking spinners 2-3" above the surface (exciting to watch) OR are working benaeth the surface. Dun or spinner floating are simply refused (at least in my experience). THis limits me, at least, to an emerger. BUT, If anyone knows how to keep a spinner 2" above the surface and never land it, Id like to take lessons!!

Simple! Capture a half-dozen or so of the duns, and leash them to your fly using strands of hair. Chuck the whole rig out there and PRESTO!…your fly lifts off the surface. Tiny choke collars are helpful in case your team spooks. Try not to lose too many flies, or you’ll soon be bald. If you’re already bald, bring a hairy friend along. Don’t bring your S.O. or children, unless you think they’d look good bald. Best not attempted among bats, martins, swallows, etc. Best not attempted. *NOTE TO THE HUMOR-IMPARED, WHICH MAY INCLUDE ME* Sorry for the joke, but I couldn’t resist. I know there are folks out there trying to crack this hatch, and it can be a tough one, like many fall (i.e., low-flow) hatches. I don’t think it helps that the bright white naturals are *really* visible to the fish, making an imitation stand apart all the more. Try fishing faster water if possible. I used to fish this hatch on West Canada Creek near Herkimer NY, (featured in one of those gawd-damn magazines recently) and had *some* luck using a pure white parachute, although I did have my share of refusals. Of course, the fish I caught could have been hopped up on goofballs and not known any better;-) Dave

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 Cast into a bush ?  take david copperfield along with you ?  helium filled wing-pads ? telekenesis ?  Inquiring minds want to know !!! — TimW Halfordian Golfer FarAndFine wrote in article – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Ever hear of the "blow fly technique"?  Read Borgers ‘Presentation’ and you’ll learn how to kee a fly two feet above the water without ever landing it.  No kidding.

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Ever hear of the "blow fly technique"?  Read Borgers ‘Presentation’ and you’ll learn how to kee a fly two feet above the water without ever landing it.  No kidding.

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    Dave Best not attempted among bats, martins, swallows, etc. I almost caught a swallow once during a thick hatch of large Light Cahills.  My #12 was floating on a placid stretch, just getting to the point where a brown was rising, when a swallow swooped out of nowhere, picked it off the water, carried it about 10 feet downstream (past where the trout was, BTW), and dropped it.  I still wonder what it would have been like had that swallow hooked itself.  =8-O Cheers, — Dave Guertin

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  Dave Best not attempted among bats, martins, swallows, etc. I almost caught a swallow once during a thick hatch of large Light Cahills.  My #12 was floating on a placid stretch, just getting to the point where a brown was rising, when a swallow swooped out of nowhere, picked it off the water, carried it about 10 feet downstream (past where the trout was, BTW), and dropped it.  I still wonder what it would have been like had that swallow hooked itself.  =8-O Cheers,

      We were in the Pecos last weekend, my son was fishing the cowels pond at dusk. He had two "creatures" flying around him and following his casts. One finally caught the fly on the backstroke and he slammed it into the pond. He said he caught a bird but I got to looking at them fly around, short bodies, no tail. I told him thats not a bird, that’s a bat! "Whoa! I caught a Bat!" he said "That’s sweet!" BTW he was using a #12 elk hair caddis, bat bait!

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I caught a swallow on a #12 elk hair caddis near the Lyons bridge on the Madison about five years ago….  in the presence of a conservation officer for Montana Fish Wildlife and Parks.  

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The Ephoron hatch is impressive. I fished it several times this year with good success.  If you watch the duns emerge, you should notice that they struggle to get our of their shuck, do a little tumble, and than are in the air. The hatch starts slow, with flies flying close to the water surface.   Next you see the trout trying to take the fly in mid-air.  I have tried a almost presentation; make a few false casts low over the area you have seen a fish, than with your final cast stop the fly about 2 feet above the water and let it float to the surface.  The take is sometimes in the air and sometimes as the fly touches the water, or sometimes nothing—— them just as they get to the surface or as they struggle to get out of their shuck.  The pattern that has worked the best for me and my fishing buddy JM, is the Usual – size #14.  Also, try a emerger with a trailing shuck of Zelon, white dubbed body, and a short wing/thich thorax, the wing can be snowshoe rabbit or Zelon. JWTrout

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Question:

Has anyone had any experience using horse hair, (mane in particular), in fly tying.  Any input would be appreciated. Tight line!

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writes: Has anyone had any experience using horse hair, (mane in particular), in fly tying.  Any input would be appreciated. Tight line!

Yes, both horse mane and horse tail.  Back in the 70’s took a one day class at a local JC in Oregon.  Older fellow who taught the 3 hour session had a collection of various materials in coffee cans and tin cracker boxes.  Part of his selection was horesehair dyed in various colors.  We tied up some caddis using some dyed green horse hair tied on and then wrapped like floss for one of the flies and then twisted to give a segmented body on another one.  It was actually pretty easy to handle. Need to be a little careful when twisting the horsehair as it goes from "twisted nicely" to "broken by twisting too much" very quickly.  Evidently it used to be easily available.  I haven’t seen any since that one time.                                  Good Luck,                                      Dan Dan Gracia                                                               Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

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Has anyone had any experience using horse hair, (mane in particular), in fly tying.  Any input would be appreciated.

tying some Mr. Ed Beadheads ? TimW

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Has anyone had any experience using horse hair, (mane in particular), in fly tying.  Any input would be appreciated.

Horsehair bodies (over painted hook shanks) were the basis of J.W. Dunne’s theory of imitation (approx. 1920) and remained in use in Britain for some time (cf. Robert Hartman, About Fishing, 1935) — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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Question:

Hello all:       I have been fly-fishing only a little while, and discovered the joy of small-mouth fishing the James River in Virginia.  Since its summer and the trout are sullen, it has been a great place to keep practicing my casting.  I have already gleaned a lot of information about using crayfish and dace style patterns, wooly buggers, etc., and I have been fishing the seams, bank overhangs, riffles, and the like.  Generally though, I have approached small-mouthing like trout.  Does anyone have suggestions specific to small-mouth bass that differ or are unique to this species, that improve your luck.  Also, any idiosyncracies of the James River? Best spots, places to avoid like the plague, etc.  I would appreciate any and all information, posted or e-mailed.   Dan Johnson

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      I have been fly-fishing only a little while, and discovered the joy of small-mouth fishing the James River in Virginia.   Dan Johnson

Dan, I enjoyed fishing near Pony Pastures in Richmond.  It does seem to get crowded at times, but not with ffishers.  There’s a good Orvis dealer in Richmond that has a lot of smallmouth knowledge.  Also check with Harry Murray of Murray’s Fly Shop.  He’s a smallmouth guru.  Let me know how you do…                                           Randy

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Dan, We’ve been fishing the Wingina to Scottsville stretch for about 20 years now.  There’s some beautiful water along the way and only two areas that can be a little hairy in the boats.  It’s best as a three day float.   Just don’t go weekends because of all of the tubers on the river. Doug

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Question:

I took up fly fishing last summer, during a trip to Newfoundland, and now the family can’t imagine any other kind of fishing. I have a few questions. Lot’s of places we fish seem to have tons of mosquitos.  Why are there so few flies that look like mosquitos (or am I missing something). In Lappland this summer, I got something called a "musta polar tohtori" (black polar doctor), which looked a bit like a mosquito, but there don’t seem to be many.  Do fish not like mosquitoes?  My wife’s theory is to the effect that mosquitoes are so common that fish are bored with them, and would rather go for something more unusual and tasty. The second question:  We took our fly rods to Finnish Lappland this summer (around Kilpisjarvi), but had no luck in the lakes around there, nor around Yllas either.  We tried muddler minnows, dry flies, streamers, wet flies, and good good at casting, but didn’t pick up anything (though some of the lakes are stocked with char).  It was fun anyway, but I’m wondering if anybody has tips on fishing the Northern Finnish, Swedish and Norwegian lakes and streams. Finally, closer to home, I’m looking for good trout streams in Wisconsin or N. Illinois, within 3-4 hours of Chicago.  I’m not looking for anybody to give away their secret spots, but if there are some well know good spots I’d appreciate the advice.  I like to fish in places that are quiet and away from busy roads and noisy power boats (and far, far away from jet skis!). Thanks, Ray Pierrehumbert

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Lot’s of places we fish seem to have tons of mosquitos.  Why are there so few flies that look like mosquitos (or am I missing something).

If trout get a shot at mosquitoes, I’m sure they’d eat them.  However, the life cycle of a mosquito pretty well takes place in water which trout cannot survive.  Mosquitoes hatch in stagnant water that is usually warmer than trout prefer and has little if any dissolved oxygen.   Not nearly enough dissolved oxygen for trout to survive.  "Mosquito wrigglers" use a tube that  penetrates the surface film to respirate. The are actually air breathing in this immature form.  That is why they used oil on the stagnant water to eliminate the malaria problems in the first half of the century.  The mosquito tubes couldn’t penetrate the oil film and they died from lack of oxygen. They hatch from stagnant water into that blood-sucking beast we all know, and they lay eggs back into the same stagnant water they came from. The attractions for them around the water are the warm blooded animals that frequent the area.  Since all animals need water, that’s a good supply of blood.  But they are not readily available for ingestion by trout. By the way, that "mosquito pattern" that most fly shops sell is a great mayfly imitation and works well in trout waters.                                                     Hope this helps,                                                              Dan

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Question:

hmmmmm an angleworm… does that work better that a dry fly !!!!!

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –      In his book "How to Fish the Pacific Coast" author Ray Cannon made the following observation:      "The aristocrat of ocean fisherman is the surf angler.  His pride, prestige, and dignity would be shattered if he were caught fishing on a pier, a boat, or off the rocks.  He would no more fish such places than a dry-fly man would use angleworm.      "The surf man’s field is the soft, clean beach, where the foaming white breakers beat to the rhythm of the sea’s pulse and recharge the waters with effervescing oxygen.  There is no other type of fishing that seems to have such a magnetic drag on its followers.  Such is the lure of the laundered sands."     "…the surf man enjoys dealing with nature single handed.  He dislikes being surrounded with manmade contrivances and helpers to give him bait and gaff his fish.  His ideas are exactly opposite to those of the swordfish angler, who fishes from a swivel chair and has almost everything done for him, even to having the boat chase his hooked gamefish.  The surf angler likes being a lone sea wolf."      I am inclined to agree.      Good fishing,

I would be inclined to agree too, except that I like to catch fish :^) Surf fishing is the most aesthetic way to catch surf species, but the pier has it beat all to hell for results.  Plus, I always get leery of the us vs them attitude implicit in the excerpt abobe; as though one kind of fishing is better than another, or one kind of fisherman is better than another.    The line beginning with "There is no other type of fishing that seems to have such a magnetic drag on it’s followers." discounts too easily the fly fisherman on his stream chasing the mighty salmon or trout,  or the river smallmouth wader casting his jigs and plugs for that one bronzeback of a lifetime, or any of the other scenarios that we pick up over a lifetime of fishing.   I have glided across a remote canadian lake at sunset, trolling for lake trout against a background of tall pines and the calls of loons.   Is that any ‘better’ than battling your first big pike, or straining against a slammer blue in the Carolina surf, or seeing an irridescent dolphin (mahi-mahi) leap out of an azure ocean as it tries to shake your hook?     Don’t get too hung up on that beach,  you can miss a lot of great fishing, and miss meeting some good people too. I can agree with the premise though, it is exhilirating to be standing on a beach on a crisp fall morning, with a rising tide, and casting plugs or bucktails for speckled trout in the trough.  Or wading the trough in the summer, casting a strip of squid for a fat summer flounder.  Or casting spoons, bucktails, or even bare hooks with a strip of cloth for rampaging bluefish as they churn the water to a bloody froth.   The only problem is the dry periods between bites, the inability to get to the fish that are beyond the next bar, and having to haul all your stuff onto the beach. Terry —    DoD# 541                           |  no matter how good it looks."                                         |         ‘Poison’ Ivy Rorschach  

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     In his book "How to Fish the Pacific Coast" author Ray Cannon made the following observation:      "The aristocrat of ocean fisherman is the surf angler.  His pride, prestige, and dignity would be shattered if he were caught fishing on a pier, a boat, or off the rocks.  He would no more fish such places than a dry-fly man would use angleworm.      "The surf man’s field is the soft, clean beach, where the foaming white breakers beat to the rhythm of the sea’s pulse and recharge the waters with effervescing oxygen.  There is no other type of fishing that seems to have such a magnetic drag on its followers.  Such is the lure of the laundered sands."     "…the surf man enjoys dealing with nature single handed.  He dislikes being surrounded with manmade contrivances and helpers to give him bait and gaff his fish.  His ideas are exactly opposite to those of the swordfish angler, who fishes from a swivel chair and has almost everything done for him, even to having the boat chase his hooked gamefish.  The surf angler likes being a lone sea wolf."      I am inclined to agree.      Good fishing,      Mark Rosen

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