Question:

Response to stress signals put out by hooked fish, – to make a meal out of the hooked fish – to eat anything regurgitated – to eat the fly/lure if is visible – and perhaps, curiosity.

Reflexive schooling response?

Response:

Response to stress signals put out by hooked fish, – to make a meal out of the hooked fish – to eat anything regurgitated – to eat the fly/lure if is visible – and perhaps, curiosity. Reflexive schooling response?

Exactly.  Schooling is a behavior that has many rewards.  Thus, fish that school have survived to pass on the tendency to school. Trout are Darwinian.

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I’ve seen spawners do that.  Lots of times there will be two males hanging around a female.  Of course I’ve only caught spawners by accident bruce h

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J. Butler writes: I noticed when I hooked a trout in a small stream that as it ran it was flanked on either side by two of its fellows.

(snip)   Land locked salmon and brook trout display the same behavior.  My theory:  the trout on the hook emits a distress signal of some sort and the other trout are there to pick up anything regurgitated.  I have seen bigger trout actually attack the hooked trout.  In waters that contain trout and pike, it is not unusual for a pike to come up and take the entire trout in its mouth. Dave

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I have seen bigger trout actually attack the hooked trout.  In waters that contain trout and pike, it is not unusual for a pike to come up and take the entire trout in its mouth.

Was in the local shop last week listening to the owner’s stories about bonefishing in Abacos.   His boat was in the midst of a large school of bones, and large sharks were beginning to enter the school and snap off hooked fish.   He claims (and this is fishing shop talk) that if he watched his hooked fish and a shark came near, he could give the fish enough line to swim normally, and the shark would swim past and search other prey. Joe F.

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He claims (and this is fishing shop talk) that if he watched his hooked fish and a shark came near, he could give the fish enough line to swim normally, and the shark would swim past and search other prey.

I have observed this with bass and hooked bluegill on several occasions. My own interpretation is that the big fish is looking for a wounded or ailing little fish to eat rather than trying to track down a healthy one, the latter being much harder to catch. –Steve

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -J. Butler writes: I noticed when I hooked a trout in a small stream that as it ran it was flanked on either side by two of its fellows. (snip)   Land locked salmon and brook trout display the same behavior.  My theory:  the trout on the hook emits a distress signal of some sort and the other trout are there to pick up anything regurgitated.  I have seen bigger trout actually attack the hooked trout.  In waters that contain trout and pike, it is not unusual for a pike to come up and take the entire trout in its mouth. Dave

Two years ago I was fishing the Thompson R. in N.W. Montana. While bringing in a small rainbow I had a bull trout (I assume) grab said fish and drop down to the stream bottom. Couldn’t budge him and he wouldnt let go. Eventually had to bust the 5x tippet. Have also seen smallmouth feed on minnows regurgitated by a hooked fish. G.Cleveland

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Zimbo writes: I have observed this with bass and hooked bluegill on several occasions. My own interpretation is that the big fish is looking for a wounded or ailing little fish to eat rather than trying to track down a healthy one, the latter being much harder to catch.

But, I have seen small fish follow the bigger hooked fish.  I had on a 20 inch brook trout and had 12 – 15 inch trout following its every move.  (????) Dave

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George Cleveland writes: Two years ago I was fishing the Thompson R. in N.W. Montana. While bringing in a small rainbow I had a bull trout (I assume) grab said fish and drop down to the stream bottom. Couldn’t budge him and he wouldnt let go. Eventually had to bust the 5x tippet.

I got into a large bull trout on the East Fork of the South Fork of the Salmon River.  The guide got a "glimpse" of him as he raced by and went to the bottom of a fairly deep pool.  I too could not budge him and had to break the 5X FC . It is illegal to intentionally fish for the bull in Idaho.  It is a protected species.   I’ve caught Dolly Vardens on the Aleutians in Alaska, but they were’nt anywhere near as mean as the ones I saw in Idaho! Dave

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I have observed this with bass and hooked bluegill on several occasions. My own interpretation is that the big fish is looking for a wounded or ailing little fish to eat rather than trying to track down a healthy one, the latter being much harder to catch.

No doubt about that.  But I imagined the OP was talking about fish the same size swimming with the hooked one.  I’m kind of curious about that too.

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I have observed this with bass and hooked bluegill on several occasions. My own interpretation is that the big fish is looking for a wounded or ailing little fish to eat rather than trying to track down a healthy one, the latter being much harder to catch. No doubt about that.  But I imagined the OP was talking about fish the same size swimming with the hooked one.  I’m kind of curious about that too.

i believe the flee response of fish is often similar enough to a feeding response (especially for saltwater species)… also, i think some of it might be curiousity…. like wondering why the hooked fish is behaving so strangly… plus, often hooked fish will regurgitate food items… so a fish could be following picking off bits of food.  without being a fish it’s always gonna be guesses about the exact reason for their behavior. chris

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 Has anyone else observed other fish accompanying a caught one?

I reckon they just see a mate in distress and attck him while he’s down. One less fish to have to fight about over food & sexual partners. But then that’s just what zoology drummed into me for years and years. They probably got it wrong. Ari Ari Bert                                        Gaelle Bert +27 (0) 83 232 9903                             +27 (0) 83 236 5308 Flyfishing Corner +27 (0) 11 447 7230                             Shop 94, Admirals Court +27 (0) 11 882 8537 (fax)                       Cnr Craddock & Tyrwhitt www.troutfishing.co.za                                Street, Rosebank P.O.Box 79067 Senderwood 2145 South Africa

Response:

I have observed this with bass and hooked bluegill on several occasions. My own interpretation is that the big fish is looking for a wounded or ailing little fish to eat rather than trying to track down a healthy one, the latter being much harder to catch. No doubt about that.  But I imagined the OP was talking about fish the same size swimming with the hooked one.  I’m kind of curious about that too.

I’ve seen this more than once and put it down to this: Response to stress signals put out by hooked fish, – to make a meal out of the hooked fish – to eat anything regurgitated – to eat the fly/lure if is visible – and perhaps, curiosity. It is unquestionably not top "help out" as fish do not have the brain capacity for altruism.  All their responses are evolved around, eat, avoid being eaten, and procreation. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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No doubt about that.  But I imagined the OP was talking about fish the same size swimming with the hooked one.  I’m kind of curious about that too. I’ve seen this more than once and put it down to this: Response to stress signals put out by hooked fish, – to make a meal out of the hooked fish – to eat anything regurgitated – to eat the fly/lure if is visible – and perhaps, curiosity.

Seems like a complete list to me. I can’t remember seeing this with trout. Maybe with stockers? It is more common with some other fishes. I’ve noticed it particularly with Smallmouth. The fish following generally appear VERY agitated. Smallmouth have a tendency to regurgitate when hooked.   It is unquestionably not top "help out" as fish do not have the brain capacity for altruism.   All their responses are evolved around, eat, avoid being eaten, and procreation.

There are a few others. For example, seeking a suitable temperature sometimes takes precedence over everything else. Willi

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Could the fellows simply have accompanied the one they thought had found a meal and tried to chase the same source of food without seeing it?

That’s what my hypothesis is. This has happened to me numerous times. One time I had one hooked that got away, as soon as he swam off another took the hook. It was very cool to see. Was the trout you caught a rainbow? It seems to me RB’s exhibit this behaviour more than others. I might be mistaken though. Jim

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I noticed when I hooked a trout in a small stream that as it ran it was flanked on either side by two of its fellows.  They did not follow just away from me, by towards me and in an arc the caught one swam.  Has anyone else observed other fish accompanying a caught one?  Does anyone have an hypothesis as to why other fish would accompany a caught one?  Could the accompanying fish been unaware the other had been caught and just exhibit schooling behavior?  Could the accompaning fish been aware their caught fellow was in distress and aiding it in some way?  Could the fellows simply have accompanied the one they thought had found a meal and tried to chase the same source of food without seeing it?  Did they simply respond to the caught one’s flight and accompany it away from danger?  Too bad I wasn’t fishing a dropper to pick up one of its mates!

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Question:

Norm is not a finish carpenter. I disagree. What about the nail gun, stain-over-smeared-glue, and poly? (I had forgotten the glue-smearing tactic in my 1st post.)

I guess we have different definitions of finish carpenter. In my book it’s the person who works (generally) inside the building putting up baseboard, door & window trim, panelling and molding. And often installing cabinets and built-ins. You will generally see these guys wielding a nail gun, rubbing glue on with a finger tip, and filling holes with putty. There’s usually a second person who slaps on the stain and poly. So what is that that makes Norm _not_ a finish carpenter? The fact that he crams a week-long project into 1/2 hour isn’t relevant. He’s not doing it real time like Roy Underhill and we all know that (right kids?). Bzzzzt! Ask these Normites’ wives. (and probably 1/3 of them)

Well, that’s why Ron Popeil is rich, isn’t it. pays attention now. In the early days he was content with a simple half-blind dovetail jig for all his drawers. He still doesn’t hand-cut them but at least he appreciates the aesthetics of the hand-cut look given by the leigh jig. I must have missed the episode titled "How to fake hand-cut dovies using only $26,745.13 worth of powah tools." (Of course, I’ve only seen 3 or 4 episodes, plus 5-10 minutes of half a dozen others.) I liked him on TOH much better.

Oh come on. The Leigh Dovetail jig costs $370 and the router is around $150. Hardly excessive. And there’s an endorsement there. He’s shown a couple of other dovetail jigs through the years–such as the Keller–but they only ever made one appearance. The Leigh keeps coming back. So I’d say he’s gotten his money’s worth and it makes me think that it’s probably worth spending the money on. Despite what many people think, outside of a few really obvious examples (the 15" planer, the wide belt sander, and the resaw) the NYW really isn’t overly equipped. It probably seems so to the person just starting out, but I’ve seen many hobbyist shops with as much or more equipment in them. –Rick

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This poll has been done here several times. It is about 50/50. I don’t use them either. — CW KC7NOD – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Frank, please! Let’s take a poll…how many honestly use a splitter and/or guard? I use neither. Jay in NH

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Fountain) crayoned this: Sometimes Norm Confuses Me

As well he should. 1/2 hour to do a 2-week project? That’s TV! Repeat after me: Norm is a carpenter. Norm is not a finish carpenter. Norm is not a fine woodworker. Proof of these three facts are shown on every episode: Norm nails, stains, and poly’s the shit out of every project. Don’t get me wrong. I don’t dislike Norm (only some of his practices), I do like many of his projects, and he surely knows more about carpentry than I do. We just have different opinions on what is important in a finished product and how to get there. (Especially nowadays. Out here in LoCal, I couldn’t afford to RUN the multi-megawatt tools he uses.) All about old planes: Electrolysis: http://members.xoom.com/nlindsey/restoration/Restoration.htm Flattening: http://members.aol.com/tomprice/galootp/Quicklap.html Dating Stanley iron planes: http://peta.ee.cornell.edu/~jay/ww/planes/ Stanley (now Patrick’s) Blood and Gore http://www.supertool.com/index.htm — the Stanley Bible The best wood reference site in the entire world is: http://www.internetwoodworking.com/w5/wood.html/

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<<<)))Well, I might use a low quality plywood thinking that with wet and muddy <<<)))stuff being stored inside the seat, it will be inexpensive and easy to <<<)))replace as needed. Yeah, that, or he could be showing that there is a use for all types of wood, and that you can use different materials if it suits you.

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Frank, please! Let’s take a poll…how many honestly use a splitter and/or guard? I use neither. Jay in NH

A.  I always use the splitter when making through cuts. B.  I use the guard (I purchased a Uniguard when I bought my Unisaw) whenever possible.  There are times that it won’t work for various cuts, but the Uniguard is very good about being flipped out of the way and then flipped back in place.

Response:

Sometimes Norm Confuses Me As well he should. 1/2 hour to do a 2-week project? That’s TV! Repeat after me: Norm is a carpenter.

I agree. Norm is not a finish carpenter.

I disagree. Norm is not a fine woodworker.

He’s working on it. Proof of these three facts are shown on every episode: Norm nails, stains, and poly’s the shit out of every project.

Part of the ‘problem’, methinks, is that he approaches his projects just like a professional finish carpenter would rather than luxuriating in the process like a hobbyist or a fine woodworker would. Ever watched a finish carpenter roll through a new house? Air brad nailers and putty are his friend! Outside real high-end houses, no one can afford to take the time to make sliding dovetails to hold moldings and hand-cut dovetails on all four corners of a drawer box. Measure, cut, bam, bam, and move on. Gotta trim out 8 windows and two doors before going home today. The fact that he crams a week-long project into 1/2 hour isn’t relevant. He’s not doing it real time like Roy Underhill and we all know that (right kids?). Most projecte appear to take two days, but how many of us actually put in an 8-hour day in the shop? However, I sometimes wish they’d be a little less honest and at least portray him more like the rest of us. For example–he’s a busy guy and probably really needs the time saved by that wide belt sander. But since 99% of us don’t own one, why don’t they show him hand sanding (or scraping!) the first panel and then he can run the rest through the dust hog off camera. Same with that huge re-saw. It was cool the first time he used it, but on subsequent shows where he needed to resaw a board he should show us a different technique. If it’s slower and more laborious, so what. He starts it on camera and then uses the resaw to finish the rest. The fact is, he could be more like Dean and Robin who have a whole crew of carpenters, plumbers and electricians who actually do most of the work they pretend to. That’s how _they_ finish a 3 month project in three half-hour episodes! Then he wouldn’t feel as remote from us normal joes. That said, I’ve watched the show from the beginning and credit it, more than anything else, with getting me back into woodworking. He _has_ grown considerably as a woodworker since those early days. If anything, in his design sense. He was guilty of some cross-grain glue-ups early on, but he pays attention now. In the early days he was content with a simple half-blind dovetail jig for all his drawers. He still doesn’t hand-cut them but at least he appreciates the aesthetics of the hand-cut look given by the leigh jig. And a few projects he really has made an effort to build it with no brads in visible places. I think he did fairly well on the jewelry box. –Rick

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Norm stopped being a woodworker some time ago, now he sells tools (or creates the "need" to buy them – your choice). Having said that, Norm builds stuff his way, I build stuff mine and you, undoubtedly, build stuff your way. Moral – never ask the donkey what the horse is doing – ask the horse instead. — Jim Warman

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sometimes Norm Confuses Me

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Norm is not a finish carpenter. I disagree.

What about the nail gun, stain-over-smeared-glue, and poly? (I had forgotten the glue-smearing tactic in my 1st post.) Norm is not a fine woodworker. He’s working on it.

Perhaps. (see Q above) The fact that he crams a week-long project into 1/2 hour isn’t relevant. He’s not doing it real time like Roy Underhill and we all know that (right kids?).

Bzzzzt! Ask these Normites’ wives. (and probably 1/3 of them) That said, I’ve watched the show from the beginning and credit it, more than anything else, with getting me back into woodworking. He _has_ grown considerably as a woodworker since those early days. If anything, in his

True. Haven’t we all grown in that time? design sense. He was guilty of some cross-grain glue-ups early on, but he pays attention now. In the early days he was content with a simple half-blind dovetail jig for all his drawers. He still doesn’t hand-cut them but at least he appreciates the aesthetics of the hand-cut look given by the leigh jig.

I must have missed the episode titled "How to fake hand-cut dovies using only $26,745.13 worth of powah tools." (Of course, I’ve only seen 3 or 4 episodes, plus 5-10 minutes of half a dozen others.) I liked him on TOH much better. And a few projects he really has made an effort to build it with no brads in visible places. I think he did fairly well on the jewelry box.

1 Atta Boy, going out toward NYWville tonight.  I’ll apologize for offending someone…right after they apologize for being easily offended. http://www.diversify.com  Inoffensive Web Design

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Frank, please! Let’s take a poll…how many honestly use a splitter and/or guard? I use neither. Jay in NH

As a long time lurker on here, to help or hinder the pol, add my vote please. I use neither, Jay BobK

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Frank, please! Let’s take a poll…how many honestly use a splitter and/or guard? I use neither. Jay in NH

I usually keep a "RipStraight" attachment on my fence.  If I’ll be ripping a number of boards I’ll put the splitter back on the saw.  If I looked hard enough I probably could find my blade guard. — Jack Novak Buffalo, NY – USA

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I thought it was funny on todays episode on HGTV while he was building a sailboat and was using bronze screws….all of a sudden he says he ran outa them and will now use stainless steel ones..I mean I know stainless is fine for boats but..but..but—-Norm run outa something in middle of project??????? ps I tape them too..by the way he’s still my hero.. ;0} Steve

That was a pretty startling comment.  He operates out of a 40 gazzilion dollar shop with the best of everything and he ran out of screws???? By the way, was there actually any wood in that sailboat or was it made entirely of epoxy? -JR

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By the way, was there actually any wood in that sailboat or was it made entirely of epoxy?

Well, there’s some wood in between the epoxy plies. Mike.

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[snide mode on] " and a couple of brads to hold it while the glue dries" [snide off] Actually, I do enjoy Norm’s shows.  There is always an idea lurking about and ready to be learned.  Entertainment? Sure.  Why is Norm carried in more places than Roy. Wince?  Sure.  Whenever Norm gets his glue machine and brad nailer out and whenever Roy gets something sharp out.  Lots of good stuff out there.     mahalo,     jo4hn – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – By the way, was there actually any wood in that sailboat or was it made entirely of epoxy? Well, there’s some wood in between the epoxy plies. Mike.

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While being no Sam Maloof,

Who’s Sam Maloof?

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When Norm is hosting his show, he’s more than just Carpenter Guy — he’s Carpenter Guy Hosting a Do-It-Mostly-Yourself TV Show. I’ve often wondered why he uses different methods to achieve the same result from show to show, and I figured it’s probably to show the viewers — who might not watch every show — varying ways of completing the project. Pocket screws seem more of a pain the the butt than biscuits (for example), but it PC is going to give the show their $700 pocket-screw-cutter-thingie, they probably want him to use it every once in a while. Mark

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Actually, Norms use of epoxy in the sailboat is pretty much standard. A lot of cedar strip canoes and wooden drift boats (flyfishing related) are finished inside and out with West System epoxies…it completely waterproofs and strengthens the boat and wood. And driftboats have sometimes sport UHMW bottoms as well as aluminum chines. Best Regards, Philski – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – By the way, was there actually any wood in that sailboat or was it made entirely of epoxy? Well, there’s some wood in between the epoxy plies. Mike.

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I thought it was funny on todays episode on HGTV while he was building a sailboat and was using bronze screws….all of a sudden he says he ran outa them and will now use stainless steel ones..I mean I know stainless is fine for boats but..but..but—-Norm run outa something in middle of project??????? ps I tape them too..by the way he’s still my hero.. ;0} Steve – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sometimes Norm Confuses Me I’ll prefix this with the comment that, when it comes down to it, Norm has far more experience and skill than I have (I’m a hobbiest/hack working my way up to carpenter, hoping to be woodworker at some point). I have taped most of his shows and review them if there was something I wanted to understand better. Some may debate the statement that he is a "Fine Woodworker" or a snip 1. Using a piece of (BC, CD even) plywood for the bottom of the chair "box".  My god.  Norm even comments that it isn’t all that authentic but that he’ll "just paint it".  He spends an entire show recreating an "authentic" piece, including panels, and then shortcuts the bottom.  I know the underside won’t likely be seen, but the inside of the box will often.  There is not advantage of plywood here as it is a loose panel.  Cost wouldn’t be a real issue compared to the overall project.  It almost appears that he ran out of wood or something.  At least he could have used a better piece of ply.  From the large knots it looked like a scrap from the Home Depot CDX pile.

snip snip

Response:

Jerry, You don’t really seem to be "confused" at all! You have used this opportunity to air your two-cents worth. (As well you can). But I am not of the opinion that you have to follow _every_method_ that Norm provides in his presentations. While being no Sam Maloof, Normski does provide some needed entertainment on the Boob Toob where a plethora of Award Shows seem to rule the roost. He must have had to get rid of that last sheet of CDX – but you can always substitute honest-to-goodness wood in it’s place if you so desire. Then you could always change the channel too huh? Here I am responding to a drive-by……. Philski – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sometimes Norm Confuses Me I’ll prefix this with the comment that, when it comes down to it, Norm has far more experience and skill than I have (I’m a hobbiest/hack working my way up to carpenter, hoping to be woodworker at some point). I have taped most of his shows and review them if there was something I wanted to understand better. Some may debate the statement that he is a "Fine Woodworker" or a "Craftsman", but when it comes down to it he does make some nice pieces given the restrictions of his show (time, sponsors, and audience). But, he often does things I find, well, confusing. I was watching his recent episode of the "Hall Seat". http://www.newyankee.com/GetProduct2.cgi?0103 This episode raised a number of questions and refreshed my thoughts on old issues.  Perhaps some would care to comment on my confusion here.  Most are probably design issues. 1. Using a piece of (BC, CD even) plywood for the bottom of the chair "box".  My god.  Norm even comments that it isn’t all that authentic but that he’ll "just paint it".  He spends an entire show recreating an "authentic" piece, including panels, and then shortcuts the bottom.  I know the underside won’t likely be seen, but the inside of the box will often.  There is not advantage of plywood here as it is a loose panel.  Cost wouldn’t be a real issue compared to the overall project.  It almost appears that he ran out of wood or something.  At least he could have used a better piece of ply.  From the large knots it looked like a scrap from the Home Depot CDX pile. I think this was a shortcut that didn’t make ANY sense. 2. His under-arm reinforcement.  He makes a good case for why this needed to be done.  No argument there and he makes good use of it to discuss the use of an inlay set for the router.  Unfortunately, his choice of color and shape were utilitarian to say the least. Couldn’t he have used some ply and then a thin strip of veneer? Perhaps some hardwood plywood?  Both would have gone towards making the reinforcement look less like an afterthought.  On a more stylish note, perhaps using something like a bowtie shape would have looked more traditional than the rectangle he used. The shape is probably being picky, but a better choice in wood tone would be more appropriate (IMHO). 3. The mirror frame.  I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt here a bit as I’m sure he has to keep the tool companies happy. But still, he did the entire piece with M&T joinery, then at the last second pops in with the pocket screws.  I noticed he covered them with another (ugly) sheet of plywood and the whole piece will be against the wall, but it seems a bit gratuitous and diminishes a piece that (with #1 fixed) would have been of heirloom quality (potentially). Finally, one that wasn’t in the Hall Seat show, but still always amazes me. 4. Norm has clamps up the wazzo (something not to be debated), and we all know he sleeps with his brad nailer, but using brads to hold solid wood edging on plywood rather than simply clamping them seems foolish (for non-production shops).  I mean really.  I’m putting the edging on to give a finished appearance to the piece. Why do I want to go and put holes in it which have to be patched and which will show up in the final piece?  Am I missing something other than speed (which isn’t an issue for his show) or product promotion (heck, perhaps Bessey would like to sell some more K-bodies ? Jerry — Jerry Fountain          | Laboratory for Fluid Mechanics, Chaos, and Mixing (847) 491-3555 (Office) | Department of Chemical Engineering (847) 491-3728 (FAX)    | 2145 Sheridan Road, Evanston, IL  60208

Response:

Frank, please! Let’s take a poll…how many honestly use a splitter and/or guard? I use neither.

I use neither, either!  And for the past 27 years my digits have remained all mine. In fact the worst cuts have been from chisels, and I don’t think they make a guard for those beasties, do they?  :-)

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jerry, You don’t really seem to be "confused" at all! You have used this opportunity to air your two-cents worth. (As well you can). But I am not of the opinion that you have to follow _every_method_ that Norm provides in his presentations. While being no Sam Maloof, Normski does provide some needed entertainment on the Boob Toob where a plethora of Award Shows seem to rule the roost. He must have had to get rid of that last sheet of CDX – but you can always substitute honest-to-goodness wood in it’s place if you so desire. Then you could always change the channel too huh? Here I am responding to a drive-by……. Nope.  I wasn’t trolling.  I guess my word choice of being "confused" related to "just when you think Norm is going the traditional way", he turns 180 degrees and does something like insert a piece of (poor quality) plywood.

Well, I might use a low quality plywood thinking that with wet and muddy stuff being stored inside the seat, it will be inexpensive and easy to replace as needed.

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Frank, please! Let’s take a poll…how many honestly use a splitter and/or guard? I use neither. Jay in NH

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I give credit to Norm getting the wife and I into woodworking. I agree that we cringe when he nails moldings and at the lack of splitter or saw guard.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jerry, You don’t really seem to be "confused" at all! You have used this opportunity to air your two-cents worth. (As well you can). But I am not of the opinion that you have to follow _every_method_ that Norm provides in his presentations. While being no Sam Maloof, Normski does provide some needed entertainment on the Boob Toob where a plethora of Award Shows seem to rule the roost. He must have had to get rid of that last sheet of CDX – but you can always substitute honest-to-goodness wood in it’s place if you so desire. Then you could always change the channel too huh? Here I am responding to a drive-by…….

Nope.  I wasn’t trolling.  I guess my word choice of being "confused" related to "just when you think Norm is going the traditional way", he turns 180 degrees and does something like insert a piece of (poor quality) plywood. I wasn’t trying to get into a discussion of how to follow Norms plans, but rather inquire if anyone could see *what* might have been going through his mind when he did something.  Considering that he does the pieces twice, once for the prototype and once more for video, you would think that some thought and reasoning went into the decisions. Still, I enjoy watching the show, and I still learn things from it.  I guess I’ve learned enough to start questioning things  I didn’t even mention that his explanation for how he was glueing only 2/3 of the panels made any sense, plus the fact that some of his tenons seemed awfully long (but it was quarter-sawn).  Wood movement is something I’m trying to study more (beyond the basic rules that is). Jerry — Jerry Fountain          | Laboratory for Fluid Mechanics, Chaos, and Mixing (847) 491-3555 (Office) | Department of Chemical Engineering (847) 491-3728 (FAX)    | 2145 Sheridan Road, Evanston, IL  60208

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Sometimes Norm Confuses Me I’ll prefix this with the comment that, when it comes down to it, Norm has far more experience and skill than I have (I’m a hobbiest/hack working my way up to carpenter, hoping to be woodworker at some point). I have taped most of his shows and review them if there was something I wanted to understand better. Some may debate the statement that he is a "Fine Woodworker" or a "Craftsman", but when it comes down to it he does make some nice pieces given the restrictions of his show (time, sponsors, and audience). But, he often does things I find, well, confusing. I was watching his recent episode of the "Hall Seat". http://www.newyankee.com/GetProduct2.cgi?0103 This episode raised a number of questions and refreshed my thoughts on old issues.  Perhaps some would care to comment on my confusion here.  Most are probably design issues. 1. Using a piece of (BC, CD even) plywood for the bottom of the chair "box".  My god.  Norm even comments that it isn’t all that authentic but that he’ll "just paint it".  He spends an entire show recreating an "authentic" piece, including panels, and then shortcuts the bottom.  I know the underside won’t likely be seen, but the inside of the box will often.  There is not advantage of plywood here as it is a loose panel.  Cost wouldn’t be a real issue compared to the overall project.  It almost appears that he ran out of wood or something.  At least he could have used a better piece of ply.  From the large knots it looked like a scrap from the Home Depot CDX pile. I think this was a shortcut that didn’t make ANY sense. 2. His under-arm reinforcement.  He makes a good case for why this needed to be done.  No argument there and he makes good use of it to discuss the use of an inlay set for the router.  Unfortunately, his choice of color and shape were utilitarian to say the least. Couldn’t he have used some ply and then a thin strip of veneer? Perhaps some hardwood plywood?  Both would have gone towards making the reinforcement look less like an afterthought.  On a more stylish note, perhaps using something like a bowtie shape would have looked more traditional than the rectangle he used. The shape is probably being picky, but a better choice in wood tone would be more appropriate (IMHO). 3. The mirror frame.  I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt here a bit as I’m sure he has to keep the tool companies happy. But still, he did the entire piece with M&T joinery, then at the last second pops in with the pocket screws.  I noticed he covered them with another (ugly) sheet of plywood and the whole piece will be against the wall, but it seems a bit gratuitous and diminishes a piece that (with #1 fixed) would have been of heirloom quality (potentially). Finally, one that wasn’t in the Hall Seat show, but still always amazes me. 4. Norm has clamps up the wazzo (something not to be debated), and we all know he sleeps with his brad nailer, but using brads to hold solid wood edging on plywood rather than simply clamping them seems foolish (for non-production shops).  I mean really.  I’m putting the edging on to give a finished appearance to the piece. Why do I want to go and put holes in it which have to be patched and which will show up in the final piece?  Am I missing something other than speed (which isn’t an issue for his show) or product promotion (heck, perhaps Bessey would like to sell some more K-bodies ? Jerry — Jerry Fountain          | Laboratory for Fluid Mechanics, Chaos, and Mixing (847) 491-3555 (Office) | Department of Chemical Engineering (847) 491-3728 (FAX)    | 2145 Sheridan Road, Evanston, IL  60208

Response:

Question:

Well if ROFF is rec.outdoors.fishing fly then! Vern

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If anybody is interested I started posting a couple of picts on ABPF If ABPF was something I knew of, then I’ve forgotten what it is. Regards, Jeff

Response:

What is the web address? I have never been able to find them. Big Dale

Response:

What is the web address? I have never been able to find them. Big Dale

Newsgroup:  alt.binaries.pictures.fishing — All fishermen are liars ‘cept you n me, and I’m starting to have doubts about you! www.fishticker.com

Response:

If anybody is interested I started posting a couple of picts on ABPF from the Maine Clave and will do a few every night ( unless someone has a problem with having there pict posted there, let me know). There is a couple of pictures up from yesterday at Salmon River when I meet Joe F. and his freind Craig. Had a great time with them and the fishing was great! Vern

Response:

If anybody is interested I started posting a couple of picts on ABPF from the Maine Clave and will do a few every night ( unless someone has a problem with having there pict posted there, let me know). There is a couple of pictures up from yesterday at Salmon River when I meet Joe F. and his freind Craig. Had a great time with them and the fishing was great! Vern

I have saved most of them for wallpaper!  Great job Vern.  Thanks!! — A question debated and left unanswered is better than a question answered without debate.

Response:

If anybody is interested I started posting a couple of picts on ABPF

If ABPF was something I knew of, then I’ve forgotten what it is. Regards, Jeff

Response:

If anybody is interested I started posting a couple of picts on ABPF If ABPF was something I knew of, then I’ve forgotten what it is.

alt.binaries.pictures.fishing — Charlie…

Response:

Question:

A summarized quote from an article in Audubon: "The federal government is proposing that Maine’s Atlantic salmon be protected under the Endangered Species Act. In 1999 less than 100 spawning females returned to the eight rivers targeted in the proposal and those were the Country’s best remaining runs of wild Atlantic salmon. Maine’s governor Angus King and a congressional delegation from Maine take issue with the claim that Maine salmon are a distinct subspecies. They feel that an ESA listing would harm the blueberry and salmon aquaculture industries." Even if the salmon don’t ultimately get ESA protection, maybe just the "threat" of it will improve the situation. In Colorado, New Mexico, Utah and Wyoming, just the consideration of putting some of our native trout species under the ESA, prompted the states’ to step up their efforts in restoring these populations, seemingly to try and curtail the ESA designation. Willi

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A summarized quote from an article in Audubon: "The federal government is proposing that Maine’s Atlantic salmon be protected under the Endangered Species Act. In 1999 less than 100 spawning females returned to the eight rivers targeted in the proposal and those were the Country’s best remaining runs of wild Atlantic salmon. Maine’s governor Angus King and a congressional delegation from Maine take issue with the claim that Maine salmon are a distinct subspecies. They feel that an ESA listing would harm the blueberry and salmon aquaculture industries." Even if the salmon don’t ultimately get ESA protection, maybe just the "threat" of it will improve the situation. In Colorado, New Mexico, Utah and Wyoming, just the consideration of putting some of our native trout species under the ESA, prompted the states’ to step up their efforts in restoring these populations, seemingly to try and curtail the ESA designation.

hope this isn’t considered raining on the esa parade, but i have yet to see any meaningful reforms due to the esa in the northwest.  the powers that be, inclusing those within NMFS, seem to be fighting harder and harder every year to maintain the status quo, except for those sport fisheries… those must be closed first because they have the most impact (add heavy dose of sarcasm to last sentence <G) we’re starting to get some inklings that things may be changing, but hell, chinook on the snake river have been listed for an awful long time to just be finally doing something. if it’s true that only 100 female atlantics were in 8 rivers, i’m amazed that they aren’t covered under the esa.  looks like maine’s salmon are on cruise control towards extinction. chris

Response:

I’ll conceived IMHO Here’s the facts I’m aware of. 1. Atlantic Salmon are not endangered as a species, Maine has no distinct species or subspecies of Salmon it’s just the run of the mill salmo salar 2. The runs have depleted over the past few years, despite the improvement to all the hydro projects to include downstream access – i.e.: no more cut bait from salmon returning to the sea. 3.  With the number of fish heading out due to stocking, and some limited natural reproduction,  it’s obvious to me the problem is NOT in the rivers of Maine but off the coast of Maine, this proposal will not get rid of the Russian and Japanese fishing fleets off our coast. (I do not claim this to be the entire problem, but when Canada quit netting salmon off their coast the runs improved). Overall fishing in the gulf of Maine is bad and getting worse. Giant factory ships under foreign flags sit there year round, I do not believe this has no impact. 4. Atlantic’s were placed on C&R 2 years ago to see if this helped, it takes 5 years for this to begin to show improvement or failure (for fish to return from the sea). 5. TU and Audubon who pushed for the C&R reg change have declared the program a failure, 3 years before any evidence pro or con can be produced 6. If ESA listing is approved on the rivers so designated agriculture and aquaculture will take a second seat. This could have an impact on Maine which has lagged the rest of the country in this age of economic growth. The Governor and the reps are just doing their jobs here. 7. The State of Maine has spent millions of dollars over the past 10+ years attempting to restore the salmon runs, it hasn’t worked. ESA listing doesn’t show much promise because the root cause of the depletion hasn’t been identified. Audubon needs to do some research before they attempt to impose a "solution". 8. The removal of the Edwards dam in Augusta may improve the virtually non-existent run in the Kennebec, despite the small numbers of fish in the Kennebec it’s not on Audubon’s list. The Kennebec once was home to the largest runs recorded in Maine and could be again given time to recover. These runs disappeared within years of Edwards construction. 9. ESA listing will more than likely cause these rivers to be closed to all angling regardless of the species targeted or so I’m told by the US F&W biologist locally. 10. Those numbers are not the same as what’s being touted here locally, I’ll see if I can find the website with the info. Also it’s TU and Audubon who are petitioning the Feds for the listing, it’s not a proposal from the Feds as far as I know (yet) We’d all love to have great runs of Atlantic’s, there is nothing finer than a 10lb salmon leaping out of the water on your fly, been there, done that. This proposal is premature and threatens the livelihood of some hardworking folks here in Maine. Audubon needs to back their claims with research, and they have yet to do that. Flyfish – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A summarized quote from an article in Audubon: "The federal government is proposing that Maine’s Atlantic salmon be protected under the Endangered Species Act. In 1999 less than 100 spawning females returned to the eight rivers targeted in the proposal and those were the Country’s best remaining runs of wild Atlantic salmon. Maine’s governor Angus King and a congressional delegation from Maine take issue with the claim that Maine salmon are a distinct subspecies. They feel that an ESA listing would harm the blueberry and salmon aquaculture industries." Even if the salmon don’t ultimately get ESA protection, maybe just the "threat" of it will improve the situation. In Colorado, New Mexico, Utah and Wyoming, just the consideration of putting some of our native trout species under the ESA, prompted the states’ to step up their efforts in restoring these populations, seemingly to try and curtail the ESA designation. Willi

Response:

I haven’t followed it in the last couple of weeks, but have the impression that ESA enactment is a done deal. Governor King’s complaint is that it’s bit premature: the Feds gave their blessing to a 5 year plan put into place by the State, and 2 years later came back with the Big Hammer. It’s a rather complex situation with no single factor bearing the brunt of the blame, but there’s little argument that the regions that are going to get hit the hardest economically are the same ones that only recently saw their unemployment levels dip below 10% for the first time in 10 or 15 years. Despite opinions to the contrary, the salmon have lots of support, whereas the unemployed have only the government to turn to. Governor King and the State are suing to get access to the data on which the Feds based their decision. Odd that he should have to do that in the face of what is purported to be overwhelming evidence that the ESA needed enacting. The Penobscot had water temps in excess of 70 in the Bangor area last season due to regionwide drought, but it won’t matter this year, the anglers get to take a by, for at least this year and for as long as some steadily employed people from another part of the country deem it. The whole thing still smells a little fishy to me. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A summarized quote from an article in Audubon: "The federal government is proposing that Maine’s Atlantic salmon be protected under the Endangered Species Act. In 1999 less than 100 spawning females returned to the eight rivers targeted in the proposal and those were the Country’s best remaining runs of wild Atlantic salmon. Maine’s governor Angus King and a congressional delegation from Maine take issue with the claim that Maine salmon are a distinct subspecies. They feel that an ESA listing would harm the blueberry and salmon aquaculture industries." Even if the salmon don’t ultimately get ESA protection, maybe just the "threat" of it will improve the situation. In Colorado, New Mexico, Utah and Wyoming, just the consideration of putting some of our native trout species under the ESA, prompted the states’ to step up their efforts in restoring these populations, seemingly to try and curtail the ESA designation. Willi

Response:

6. If ESA listing is approved on the rivers so designated agriculture and aquaculture will take a second seat. This could have an impact on Maine which has lagged the rest of the country in this age of economic growth. The Governor and the reps are just doing their jobs here.

how much of an impact do you think the aquaculture industry is having on maine’s wild salmon?  are there large numbers of escapees?  aquaculture definetely puts me in a tough situation… on one hand the price of fish declines, which is good for wild fish (not economical to harvest them) but the commercial impact on fish remains to make the food the fish in pens eat.  plus the use of antibiotics and the possible spread of diseases from rearing in tight quarters are imo seriously bad things. seems you want no job losses from aquaculture, but don’t mind job losses among the commercial fishing fleet.  seems a strange position since both have negative effects, although one is obvious and the other will be forever argued by those pro-aquaculture folks. we’re facing much the same deal here in the northwest with probable job losses (never mind the loss of a $1 billion sportfishery from the loss of viable fisheries).  do you have any treaty tribes in maine, because as i read it, in the nw they will be the folks who have the final say due to the treaties superseding much of the state’s power. good luck finding a solution, i hope you can find one. chris

Response:

6. If ESA listing is approved on the rivers so designated agriculture and aquaculture will take a second seat. This could have an impact on Maine which has lagged the rest of the country in this age of economic growth. The Governor and the reps are just doing their jobs here.

:how much of an impact do you think the aquaculture industry is having on maine’s wild salmon?  are there large numbers of escapees?  aquaculture definetely puts me in a tough situation… on one hand the price of fish declines, which is good for wild fish (not economical to harvest them) but the commercial impact on fish remains to make the food the fish in pens eat.  plus the use of antibiotics and the possible spread of diseases from rearing in tight quarters are imo seriously bad things.: The Maine and the New Brunswick salmon aquaculture industry are one in the same.  All of the salmon stocks in New Brunswick’s Bay of Fundy (with the exception of the Saint John River’s) are on the verge of extirpation.  The causitive link with aquaculture is suspected, because the stock declines commenced with the explosion of the industry in the early ’80’s.  The pathway(s) are not certain, but disease, genetic pollution and the concentration of predator theories cannot be dismissed.  The spread of the deadly Infectious Salmon Anemia (of European origin and imported in live fish to North America?) from cage escapees to wild salmon in one NB river has been demonstrated.  It has also been demonstrated that wild resident fish species, such as herring and harbour pollock are carriers of the disease. That said, a lot of the Down East salmon rivers of Maine are a long way from the aquaculture industry, and the pathway of its effect on them is hard to visualize.  The recovery of the eastern seaboard striped bass populations cannot be good for salmon, nor can exploding sea bird and seal populations.   At least one expert at Acadia University contends that it is foreign fishing fleets, which indiscriminatly fish for all species that are available, are the real culprits. JB :seems you want no job losses from aquaculture, but don’t mind job losses among the commercial fishing fleet.  seems a strange position since both have negative effects, although one is obvious and the other will be forever argued by those pro-aquaculture folks. we’re facing much the same deal here in the northwest with probable job losses (never mind the loss of a $1 billion sportfishery from the loss of viable fisheries).  do you have any treaty tribes in maine, because as i read it, in the nw they will be the folks who have the final say due to the treaties superseding much of the state’s power. good luck finding a solution, i hope you can find one. chris:

Response:

Question:

Does anyone know who puts on equipment/demonstration shows for flyfishing in alrge cities? I would like to go to one next year but can’t seem to find out how/where they are scheduled.

Huh, loaded kind of question….What  large area are you near? The fly fishing magazines often put out a list of the winter shows….also check websites www.flyshop.com,www.flyfish.com,www.flyfishing.com,www.flyrodreel.com, etc…; you local sporting goods stores or fly shops or the local clubs, ie TU, FFF chapters. All will have the low down. Wayne Knight (remove nospam to respond via mail) Expert in the creation of  wind knots and tailing loops.

Response:

Does anyone know who puts on equipment/demonstration shows for flyfishing in alrge cities? I would like to go to one next year but can’t seem to find out how/where they are scheduled. Thanks

Response:

Does anyone know who puts on equipment/demonstration shows for flyfishing in alrge cities? I would like to go to one next year but can’t seem to find out how/where they are scheduled. Thanks

Check the following URL’s.     www.sportshow.com     www.flyfishingshow.com

Response:

Question:

Hi I’m new this year to both fly fishing and fly tying.  i live in Edmonton Alberta and am trying to find people around here who are also starting out. Anyone who qualifies, please e-mail me. Ashman

Response:

Check for local Trout unlimited chapters…….good place to start networking so to speak…….

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hi I’m new this year to both fly fishing and fly tying.  i live in Edmonton Alberta and am trying to find people around here who are also starting out. Anyone who qualifies, please e-mail me. Ashman

Response:

Hi I’m new this year to both fly fishing and fly tying.  i live in Edmonton Alberta and am trying to find people around here who are also starting out. Anyone who qualifies, please e-mail me.

Edmonton eh?   You lucky dog; you get to listen to CKUA all the time.   I only get the Real Audio feed when I’m at my computer. Joe

Response:

Question:

Without question, the greatest challenge in saltwater fly-fishing is the casting. To achieve consistent success, fly-fishers must be able to deliver a fly in excess of 50 feet–and usually they must be able to do this in the wind. Although there are a number of fly-casting tapes on the market, Saltwater Fly-Casting: 10 Steps to Distance and Power is the first video fly-casting program available: a detailed overview of the mechanics of distance fly-casting, coupled with a step-by-step practice program viewers can use to become more effective fly-casters. The program focuses on the specific needs of saltwater anglers, but is of value to all fly-fishers who wish to add distance and power to their casts. Hosted by George V. Roberts Jr., author of A Fly-Fisher

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Want to fly fish Idaho in July. Dont know where to go.Any suggestions?Dry and nymph fishing. I would go to Silver Creek, about 45 min. southeast of Ketchum/Sun Valley. It is a spring creek and is very special. I would stop in Silver Creek Outfitters in Ketchum and get some good flies for that time period. Ask them what time of day to fish which flies. You will need a #3, #4 or soft #5 rod with a floating line. They usually have a Trico spinner fall in the morning starting somewhere around 8 am and ending well before noon depending on the weather. The mid-day is pretty tough, but 5/6pm ’til dark should be another good period. Many anglers stop by this area on the annual pilgrimage to Montana. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

There is also a little-known spring creek on the Fort Hall Indian Reservation about 10 miles north of Pocatello, Idaho. you need a tribal permit, which last I knew was $10.00/day. This is a sizable piece of water which flows into American Falls Reservoir. Very prolific Pale Morning Dun hatches (Ephemerella Infrequens) mostly size 16 also E. Doddsi size 18. Educated fish along with masking hatches etc. good challenge. Not far out of the way if a person is at Silver Creek, about 3 hours drive. Jim Nelson

Response:

: I would go to Silver Creek, about 45 min. southeast of Ketchum/Sun Valley. It is : a spring creek and is very special. I would stop in Silver Creek Outfitters in : Ketchum and get some good flies for that time period. Ask them what time of day : to fish which flies. You will need a #3, #4 or soft #5 rod with a floating line. I believe there is now a Silver Creek Outfitters down by the creek, on the road to Ketchum.  It might be something else, but I seem to recall it is Silver Creek Outfitters. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Want to fly fish Idaho in July. Dont know where to go.Any suggestions?Dry and nymph fishing. I would go to Silver Creek, about 45 min. southeast of Ketchum/Sun Valley. It is a spring creek and is very special. I would stop in Silver Creek Outfitters in Ketchum and get some good flies for that time period. Ask them what time of day to fish which flies. You will need a #3, #4 or soft #5 rod with a floating line. They usually have a Trico spinner fall in the morning starting somewhere around 8 am and ending well before noon depending on the weather. The mid-day is pretty tough, but 5/6pm ’til dark should be another good period. Many anglers stop by this area on the annual pilgrimage to Montana. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY There is also a little-known spring creek on the Fort Hall Indian Reservation about 10 miles north of Pocatello, Idaho. you need a tribal permit, which last I knew was $10.00/day. This is a sizable piece of water which flows into American Falls Reservoir. Very prolific Pale Morning Dun hatches (Ephemerella Infrequens) mostly size 16 also E. Doddsi size 18. Educated fish along with masking hatches etc. good challenge. Not far out of the way if a person is at Silver Creek, about 3 hours drive. Jim NelsonEvery river is going to be raging until August or September.  Put your

trip off until then or look to fish the lakes, ie. Henry’s lake Guy

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Want to fly fish Idaho in July. Dont know where to go.Any suggestions?Dry and nymph fishing. I would go to Silver Creek, about 45 min. southeast of Ketchum/Sun Valley. It is a spring creek and is very special. I would stop in Silver Creek Outfitters in Ketchum and get some good flies for that time period. Ask them what time of day to fish which flies. You will need a #3, #4 or soft #5 rod with a floating line. They usually have a Trico spinner fall in the morning starting somewhere around 8 am and ending well before noon depending on the weather. The mid-day is pretty tough, but 5/6pm ’til dark should be another good period. Many anglers stop by this area on the annual pilgrimage to Montana. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY There is also a little-known spring creek on the Fort Hall Indian Reservation about 10 miles north of Pocatello, Idaho. you need a tribal permit, which last I knew was $10.00/day. This is a sizable piece of water which flows into American Falls Reservoir. Very prolific Pale Morning Dun hatches (Ephemerella Infrequens) mostly size 16 also E. Doddsi size 18. Educated fish along with masking hatches etc. good challenge. Not far out of the way if a person is at Silver Creek, about 3 hours drive. Jim NelsonEvery river is going to be raging until August or September.  Put your trip off until then or look to fish the lakes, ie. Henry’s lake Guy

 In most cases the high water doesn’t have a large effect on the spring creeks. The spring creeks on the Fort Hall reservation do rise and become somewhat off-color, but they do remain fishable.  I was told, since my earlier post, that the tribe is now limiting the number of permits sold, and that all the available season permits have been sold. I don’t know this for sure, nor do I know if daily permits are still available. Before a person came here to fish it would be prudent to call the Fort Hall Tribal headquarters and find out. Jim N.

Response:

Want to fly fish Idaho in July. Dont know where to go.Any suggestions?Dry and nymph fishing.

Response:

: Want to fly fish Idaho in July. Dont know where to go.Any suggestions?Dry : and nymph fishing. Which part… it’s a big state.  And like night and day. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

Response:

Robert, I’m going out in July…I plan to go to the Big Wood River & Silver Creek in the south central part of Idaho.  Never been exactly there, but I’ve read a couple of favorable things about the area and it looks like a good destination.  Most of my 13 day trip is in Montana, but this looks a good diversion.   Ray Palmer

Response:

Want to fly fish Idaho in July. Dont know where to go.Any suggestions?Dry and nymph fishing.

I would go to Silver Creek, about 45 min. southeast of Ketchum/Sun Valley. It is a spring creek and is very special. I would stop in Silver Creek Outfitters in Ketchum and get some good flies for that time period. Ask them what time of day to fish which flies. You will need a #3, #4 or soft #5 rod with a floating line. They usually have a Trico spinner fall in the morning starting somewhere around 8 am and ending well before noon depending on the weather. The mid-day is pretty tough, but 5/6pm ’til dark should be another good period. Many anglers stop by this area on the annual pilgrimage to Montana. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

Response:

Question:

Does anyone know the contact info for the Atlantic Salmon Foundation as well as membership dues, etc? Thanks Don Don Chen            *  Standard disclaimers apply here. USDA-ARS-NFSPRC     * 3450 SW Campus Way  *   Corvallis, OR 97331 *                     * 503-750-8721        *

Response:

Does anyone know the contact info for the Atlantic Salmon Foundation

Atlantic Salmon Federation (US) P.O. Box 807, Calais, ME 04619-0807 (Cdn.) P.O. Box 529, St. Andrew’s, NB E0G 2XO 1 800 565-5666 Dues range from $40 (regular) up to $10,000 (Benefactor). — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

Response:

Check out: http://www.flyfishing.com/asf/ Andrew Clarke Halifax, Nova Scotia Canada

Response:

Great and effective organisation with terrific membership benefits and publications. Their Web site is: http://www.flyfishing.com/asf/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone know the contact info for the Atlantic Salmon Foundation as well as membership dues, etc? Thanks Don Don Chen            *  Standard disclaimers apply here. USDA-ARS-NFSPRC     * 3450 SW Campus Way  *   Corvallis, OR 97331 *                    * 503-750-8721        *

Response:

Question:

I will be fly fishing the area between Creed and South Fork July 1st through the 7th.  Any information on hatches, water conditions, or recommendations will be greatly appreciated.   Joe H. Green

Response:

I will be fly fishing the area between Creed and South Fork July 1st through the 7th.  Any information on hatches, water conditions, or recommendations will be greatly appreciated.  

Hed upstream to 4th of Jult Canyon (accesible by car) for some really good beaver pond fishing.  There are some large brookies in the area. Bob McDuffee Network Services Manager, WICHE Office:303.541.0299 Fax:303.541.0291

Response:

 I will be fly fishing the area between Creed and South Fork July 1st  through the 7th.  Any information on hatches, water conditions, or  recommendations will be greatly appreciated.   I’m afraid you may find conditions less than ideal. The Rio Grande, along w/ most other Colo. rivers at the

moment, is running extremely high and roily and will probably not drop and clear until late July. Denver, Colorado        ftp.rmii.com/pub2/gwgodden      

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