Question:

  If you see surface disturbances from midging trout does that mean that there is a lot of feeding going on that doesn’t disturb the surface, as well?

Of course it does. That’s why dangling a brassie under an indicator works. There’s nothing to stop you from casting it to the feeding fish that you can see. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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  Am I missing the boat by not fishing midge pupa & emergers more often? This would generally be blind fishing as the rising fish are on the move and not rising very often so it’s pretty hard to target individual fish. Is it safe to assume that there is more feeding activity going on that does not cause surface disturbance?

I got to do this sort of fishing for the first time last fall.  It is bobber fishing, the line is floating and the leader is hanging at a right angle below the *indicator*.  I got something like 20 strikes but only hooked up with two fish.  My friend later told me that one must lift the rod, not rear backwards in order to set the hook.  Pulling the rod up and back pulled the fly out of the fish’s mouth.  Raising the rod upwards lifted the fly line upwards and consequently the fly moved upwards and the fish is hooked. Mu

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part   Am I missing the boat by not fishing midge pupa & emergers more often?  This would generally be blind fishing as the rising fish are on the move and not rising very often so it’s pretty hard to target individual fish.  Is it safe to assume that there is more feeding activity going on that does not cause surface disturbance? Snoop

Bob, I find I don’t often have the patience to fish small flies to the sporadic risers you mention.  But it depends on definiton of sporadic – I’m thinking once an hour!  These fish, rainbows mostly, are working beats at a fair clip.  But day after day they rise, a good cast (80- 100ft)of the bank in some places, in other right up hard against steep embankments. After some observation, and a little local knowledge you can make a reasonable guess at the beat and fish accordingly. I don’t fish nymphs to these very sporadic fish, I use small lures, 14 or so.  A small Alexandra is my favourite.  The idea being if I get the fly within cooee of the fish I want to get it seen and hopefully eaten.   The size falls in the range of sizes midge the fish are eating and the combination of red, silver, and peacock sword is most attractive to the fish.  Perhaps you have a favorite lure that would scale down to a #14 and be effective. Of course when the water is ‘boiling’ I try pupa, spiders etc. sometimes even with success. have fun filling another flybox Steve

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larger midges (#10 to #16)- called chironomids here in British Columbia are a premier hatch on many stillwaters – in some cases the only real hatch. I commonly fish them with a very slow hand twist retrieve. The idea isn’t so much to move the fly as keep the line tight to the fly. A take is felt as a slight tightening. When sensed just lift the rod. I’ve also used this on the small midge hatches here in the Fraser Valley that occur in late winter. Trout will often fish on emergers and adults. A pupae with a bit of foam at the head or a griffiths gnat are other ways to successfully fish this hatch.

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Some of the most interesting fishing I’ve ever had has been float tubing and using brassies this way, with a spotter up on the rocks directing my casts to the cruising fish. That’s very different from blind fishing a lake with a tiny fly below a bobber, watching the bobber and waiting for a fish.

  Yeah Willi, it’s kind of like watching paint dry.  There really is no chance for sight fishing as the water isn’t that clear.  You can drop a fly on a rise ring and have some success.  Otherwise, it’s blind fishing.  But, isn’t dragging a pair of nymphs through the water kind of the same thing?  You’re just hoping on connecting with a passing fish.  Fine when it works, boring as hell when it doesn’t.   If you see surface disturbances from midging trout does that mean that there is a lot of feeding going on that doesn’t disturb the surface, as well? Snoop — —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Try dangling a small brassie under an indicator, especially when the wind gives the water a little surface ripple. Like Steve says, it’s a boring way to fish. I didn’t say that! It may be kind of boring at times, but it’s far from the MOST boring. Some of the most interesting fishing I’ve ever had has been float tubing and using brassies this way, with a spotter up on the rocks directing my casts to the cruising fish.

That’s very different from blind fishing a lake with a tiny fly below a bobber, watching the bobber and waiting for a fish. Willi

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Some of the most interesting fishing I’ve ever had has been float tubing and using brassies this way, with a spotter up on the rocks directing my casts to the cruising fish. That’s very different from blind fishing a lake with a tiny fly below a bobber, watching the bobber and waiting for a fish.

True. I like to fish to risers from a float tube. It’s fun to try putting a dry fly right into the rise circle before the fish cruises away. It’s even fun to catch stockers this way. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

  Am I missing the boat by not fishing midge pupa & emergers more often?  This would generally be blind fishing as the rising fish are on the move and not rising very often so it’s pretty hard to target individual fish.  Is it safe to assume that there is more feeding activity going on that does not cause surface disturbance? Try dangling a small brassie under an indicator, especially when the wind gives the water a little surface ripple.

Like Steve says, it’s a boring way to fish. Willi

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   Am I missing the boat by not fishing midge pupa & emergers more often?  This would generally be blind fishing as the rising fish are on the move and not rising very often so it’s pretty hard to target individual fish.  Is it safe to assume that there is more feeding activity going on that does not cause surface disturbance? Try dangling a small brassie under an indicator, especially when the wind gives the water a little surface ripple. Like Steve says, it’s a boring way to fish.

I didn’t say that! It may be kind of boring at times, but it’s far from the MOST boring. Some of the most interesting fishing I’ve ever had has been float tubing and using brassies this way, with a spotter up on the rocks directing my casts to the cruising fish. I think "team" sight fishing is a total kick. Much of the time, because of the lighting conditions and the low sight angle the fisherman has, the fish just can’t be seen by the caster but can clearly be seen by a nonfishing partner. It’s nearly as much fun to spot the fish for your partner as it is to catch them yourself. Toward the end of the steelhead season around Stanley, when I was frankly tired of catching fish, I went to the river and spotted fish for strangers. It was fun. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

  Am I missing the boat by not fishing midge pupa & emergers more often?  This would generally be blind fishing as the rising fish are on the move and not rising very often so it’s pretty hard to target individual fish.  Is it safe to assume that there is more feeding activity going on that does not cause surface disturbance?

Try dangling a small brassie under an indicator, especially when the wind gives the water a little surface ripple. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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  I generally use p.t. nymphs, hare’s ears or prince, size 16 to 10 when fishing my favorite lake and have been having pretty good luck.  Of course, they’re going through the motions of trying to spawn and I’m sure that has a lot to do with everyone’s success.   There are a few sporadic rises on this lake at this time of year and there will be more activity as the weather warms.  The fish are swirling on midges, I’m sure.   Am I missing the boat by not fishing midge pupa & emergers more often?  This would generally be blind fishing as the rising fish are on the move and not rising very often so it’s pretty hard to target individual fish.  Is it safe to assume that there is more feeding activity going on that does not cause surface disturbance? Snoop — —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

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Question:

BTW: why don’t trout eat those skittery little black bugs that hang out near shore and in eddies? I read somewhere that they emit a mild toxin into the water which repels the fish.  They hang out in groups because then there is a higher concentration of the toxin, providing a higher level of safety.

Oh, she’s talking about water striders! I thought she was talking about midges. Kevin’s right. Water striders are toxic. I remember last year at the San Juan Clave there were lots of midges in the eddies and other slackwater, but the fish were ignoring them. I wondered why, and still do. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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BTW: why don’t trout eat those skittery little black bugs that hang out near shore and in eddies? I read somewhere that they emit a mild toxin into the water which repels the fish.  They hang out in groups because then there is a higher concentration of the toxin, providing a higher level of safety.

Thank you.  That sounds right.  I know they’re not fast, as I’ve always been easily able to hand catch one.   — rbc:  vixen    Fairly harmless remove invalid or hit reply to email. Though I’m very slow to respond. http://www.visi.com/~cyli

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BTW: why don’t trout eat those skittery little black bugs that hang out near shore and in eddies?  

I understood that these were just not a favorite food of trout…being that they’re as hard as peanuts.  In NJ, those and skating spiders are not eaten by trout in any waters that I know of.

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One of the first hurdles a beginer needs to clear is to learn how to present a fly on a dead drift. It’s a very important skill but how often is it necessary or even desirable?

I’m loving trying to do it for drys or surface lures, but I can’t bring myself to feel that anything but a really dead bug will drift fairly freely, and even that bug will bounce into and off of things, including the bottom if using an under surface fly / lure. BTW: why don’t trout eat those skittery little black bugs that hang out near shore and in eddies?  I don’t see them much in water where other varieties of decent sized game fish are around or else they stay so shallow that nothing big can get them.  Is it the Monarch butterfly sort of thing in the water? — rbc:  vixen    Fairly harmless remove invalid or hit reply to email. Though I’m very slow to respond. http://www.visi.com/~cyli

Response:

One of the first hurdles a beginer needs to clear is to learn how to present a fly on a dead drift. It’s a very important skill but how often is it necessary or even desirable? I’m loving trying to do it for drys or surface lures, but I can’t bring myself to feel that anything but a really dead bug will drift fairly freely, and even that bug will bounce into and off of things, including the bottom if using an under surface fly / lure.

I kind of hate to post this, because I’m such a "fucking putz" at presenting nymphs compared to people like Willi and Bruce, but here’s my understanding of the theory. There’s something called the "turnover point." When you cast your nymph out, in the normal scheme of things, you should try to get your indicator upstream of the nymph. The current on the surface carries the indicator downstream faster than the deep-drifting nymph. Upstream mends can help, but you risk pulling the fly right out of the trouts’ mouths. There is a point — the "turnover" point — when the nymph is just below the indicator. This is when it’s doing its best rendition of a "dead drift." If you know where the fish are, try to make that the turnover point. BTW: why don’t trout eat those skittery little black bugs that hang out near shore and in eddies?  I don’t see them much in water where other varieties of decent sized game fish are around or else they stay so shallow that nothing big can get them.  Is it the Monarch butterfly sort of thing in the water?

Good question. I think it’s because trout are wary. They don’t want to expose themselves to predators in shallow water when there’s plenty of stuff to eat in safer places. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

There is a point — the "turnover" point — when the nymph is just below the indicator. This is when it’s doing its best rendition of a "dead drift." If you know where the fish are, try to make that the turnover

point. According to Borger, the indicator is more of a drift indicator than strike indicator.  He says if your indicator is drifting as fast as the surface current and your nymph is near the bottom, your nymph is probably dragging. A split shot will help slow it down.  I suppose this would be past the "turnover point" you describe.

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According to Borger, the indicator is more of a drift indicator than strike indicator.  He says if your indicator is drifting as fast as the surface current and your nymph is near the bottom, your nymph is probably dragging. A split shot will help slow it down.  I suppose this would be past the "turnover point" you describe.

Even using the most thought out or "best" combination of weight, leader length etc. there will usually only be a small portion of your drift where the fly is truly approaching a dragfree drift. Like Steve said, you want to try and have this "good" part of the drift in the area that you think holds fish. The deeper the water, overall, the more pronounced this is. You can get more instances of a dragfree drift through mending, but because of the varied currents, it impossible to get a dragfree drift throughout the drift. It’s often difficult to get a dragfree drift with a dry fly. With a dry you can see what’s going on and with a dry, you’re essentially only dealing with a flat plane or two dimensions. With a sunken nymph, in most situations, you have to make inferences about what’s going on with your fly and you’re dealing with three dimensions. MUCH more difficult but fortunately for us, I think the fish are more tolerant of drag with a nymph. Willi

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BTW: why don’t trout eat those skittery little black bugs that hang out near shore and in eddies?

Probably because they are too difficult for the trout to catch. They would experience a net loss in calories because of the energy expended in trying to catch them. Game fish are instinctively aware of the energy/food value relationship, and tend to feed accordingly. George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

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With a sunken nymph, in most situations, you have to make inferences about what’s going on with your fly and you’re dealing with three dimensions. MUCH more difficult but fortunately for us, I think the fish are more tolerant of drag with a nymph.

        and i suspect that this is because many of the insects we are attempting to imitate with nymphs are alive, and move upwards and from side to side as they attempt to reach the surface, as opposed to the nearly motionless float of duns and spinners. wayno (lifelong reader of field&stream)

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BTW: why don’t trout eat those skittery little black bugs that hang out near shore and in eddies?

I read somewhere that they emit a mild toxin into the water which repels the fish.  They hang out in groups because then there is a higher concentration of the toxin, providing a higher level of safety. Kevin — Check out the Pike Clave Website: <http://www.misu.nodak.edu/~vang/PikeClave/

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What percentage of fish do you take during a "dragfree" drift for: Dries       95% Nymphs       95% Wets       40% Streamers      10% Your percentage for nymphs is surprising to me.  Do you usually let them swing across at the end of the dragfree part of the drift?  I take many fish on nymphs, especially BH PTs, on the rising part of the swing–almost as many as when I fish traditional wets (soft hackles, etc.) this way.

    What I really meant to say was, 95% of the time I nymph I *really* try for a dead drift. The other 5% of the time is when I’m moving (stumbling) upstream, dragging the thing behind me, and some inconsiderate trout bites it.

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Willi asks: What percentage of fish do you take during a "dragfree" drift for:

 Dries (over 90)  Nymphs ( not sure, probably most; 75?)  Wets (less than 10)  Streamers (less than 5) — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyoming

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What percentage of fish do you take during a "dragfree" drift for: Dries Nymphs Wets Streamers My estimates: Dries: 90 Nymphs: 80 Wets: 50 Streamers: 20

Dries: definitely in the 90+% range during most mayfly hatches. During stonefly hatches, however, or even when I fish a hopper during terrestrial season, I twitch my fly when it’s drifting. Granted, I attempt for it to be subtle, and only a movement every couple of feet or so, but a lot of the hits come right at the twitch. Nymphs: I’d like to think that ALL my fish hit during drag free drift but I think that’s impossible to do all the time. I’d rank it there around 75%. Wets: When I fish them, which isn’t that often, they are moving for sure. 25%. Streamers: Practically all my fish come during the strip or the swing. I do pick up fish occasionally during a drag-free drift but I don’t fish a streamer that often that way. 10% — Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

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Dries: definitely in the 90+% range during most mayfly hatches. During stonefly hatches, however, or even when I fish a hopper during terrestrial season, I twitch my fly when it’s drifting. Granted, I attempt for it to be subtle, and only a movement every couple of feet or so, but a lot of the hits come right at the twitch.

I concur with this. Another "action" technique I especially like is skittering a caddis imitation through shallow, pocket water. Not sure if it is more effective than just a drag free drift but it sure produces some exciting takes. Streamers: Practically all my fish come during the strip or the swing. I do pick up fish occasionally during a drag-free drift but I don’t fish a streamer that often that way. 10%

I’m not a very able streamer fisherman but I frequently cast up and across with a streamer and let it drift down pretty much drag free to allow it to sink. I have taken some fish during this "drag free" part of the drift. Peter? Willi

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Dries: definitely in the 90+% range during most mayfly hatches. During stonefly hatches, however, or even when I fish a hopper during terrestrial season, I twitch my fly when it’s drifting. Granted, I attempt for it to be subtle, and only a movement every couple of feet or so, but a lot of the hits come right at the twitch. I concur with this. Another "action" technique I especially like is skittering a caddis imitation through shallow, pocket water. Not sure if it is more effective than just a drag free drift but it sure produces some exciting takes.

A very fun hatch on the Clark Fork is a #14 olive caddis, a ‘green rock worm’, IIRC. A free-living caddis. Use a LaFontaine-style (God rest his soul) emerging caddis fished just under the surface film down and across or just straight down. If the fly is making a ‘V’ they don’t seem to want it. But if you get it to still be twitching & dragging, literally just under the surface, they wack it pretty hard. There is a particular hole on the CF that really can only best be fished with an almost straight down approach with this method, but right at dusk on a mid-July evening… oh boy! Streamers: Practically all my fish come during the strip or the swing. I do pick up fish occasionally during a drag-free drift but I don’t fish a streamer that often that way. 10% I’m not a very able streamer fisherman but I frequently cast up and across with a streamer and let it drift down pretty much drag free to allow it to sink. I have taken some fish during this "drag free" part of the drift. Peter?

I must amend to my streamer statement above that most of my streamer fishing is done from a boat. With a good oarsman at the helm, you can get some amazingly good presentations that can cover a lot of good water. — Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dries: definitely in the 90+% range during most mayfly hatches. During stonefly hatches, however, or even when I fish a hopper during terrestrial season, I twitch my fly when it’s drifting. Granted, I attempt for it to be subtle, and only a movement every couple of feet or so, but a lot of the hits come right at the twitch. I concur with this. Another "action" technique I especially like is skittering a caddis imitation through shallow, pocket water. Not sure if it is more effective than just a drag free drift but it sure produces some exciting takes. Streamers: Practically all my fish come during the strip or the swing. I do pick up fish occasionally during a drag-free drift but I don’t fish a streamer that often that way. 10% I’m not a very able streamer fisherman but I frequently cast up and across with a streamer and let it drift down pretty much drag free to allow it to sink. I have taken some fish during this "drag free" part of the drift. Peter? Willi

I rarely fish streamers on the dead drift though it can be a useful imitation of a dead or dying minnow with the right pattern.  I tried one day for steelhead using a small, weighted streamer on the dead drift and ended up with a bunch of bugle trout.  They obviously feed on the dead.  I’ve also had carp and smallies suck in streamers when I’ve been counting the fly down on the sink, while fishing in still water. I know that you know this Willi, but as a general comment  . . . About drag for dries, nymphs, and wets – I try to get the situation right for the insect that’s active.  One example – on Whiteman’s Creek, it was Hendrickson time but there was nothing in the air.  I was dead drifting a H. nymph by a log jam in fairly deep water and was batting a fat zero.  Then I remembered that Hendrickson nymphs migrate to shallow, slow water to hatch.  I was standing on the inside of a bend in shallow, slow water so I slowly retrieved my H. nymph along the bottom toward me and picked up a 12" rainbow on the first try.  A few more casts picked up some more fish.   Some mayfly nymphs and caddis pupae are very active swimmers and some mayfly emergers change into adult form a foot or so below the surface before swimming up with their wings (e.g. Dark Hendricksons.)  Many caddis do the same and with some species, the gas they generate causes them to rocket up.  As caddis have micro hairs on their wings they can fly off immediately on emergence whereas mayflies usually need to dry their wings first resulting in lots of fluttering.  Some caddis skitter across the surface before flying off and a few stillwater caddis will skate on the surface all the way to the shore.  When egg laying, some caddis and mayflies dap their eggs on the surface while other caddis and mayflies dive, penetrating the meniscus and laying their eggs on the bottom before swimming back up and flying off (or dying in the mayfly case.)  Small trout will often leap out of the water after dapping egg layers while others actively chase the divers. None of this behaviour can be imitated by a dead drift. Moral:  Know the behaviour of the bug.  Drag is not always your enemy – especially when it’s deliberate. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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One of the first hurdles a beginer needs to clear is to learn how to present a fly on a dead drift. It’s a very important skill but how often is it necessary or even desirable? What percentage of fish do you take during a "dragfree" drift for: Dries Nymphs Wets Streamers My estimates: Dries: 90 Nymphs: 80 Wets: 50 Streamers: 20 Willi

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One of the first hurdles a beginer needs to clear is to learn how to present a fly on a dead drift. It’s a very important skill but how often is it necessary or even desirable? What percentage of fish do you take during a "dragfree" drift for: Dries … My estimates: Dries: 90

When people talk about "educated" fish, I think recognizing a dragfree drift is the piscine equivalent of the PhD. I also think it’s highly dependent on the particular watershed. Some places, relatively sterile mountain streams for instance, you can catch a fish with just about any sort of drift at all. On a heavily fished spring creek I’d say that the percentage of fish I take with a dragfree drift is for all intents and purposes 100%. — Ken Fortenberry

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One of the first hurdles a beginer needs to clear is to learn how to present a fly on a dead drift. It’s a very important skill but how often is it necessary or even desirable?

Well, IMO, the term "drag free" drift is the wrong term to use for _teaching_ beginners, although _presenting_ in such fashion, is, to me, different than _fishing_ a fly, even if the take occurs within a second or two of presentation.  What is important as to _fishing_ is to not appear so unnatural as to either confuse, and therefore, "spook," a fish or simply telegraph that an offering isn’t food. Granted, this often means no unnatural drag, which is often "drag free" and likely, most experienced fishers know this and use the term "drag free" as a catch-all term.  But I think it does beginners a disservice to teach absolutes (take "the wrist must always be locked or you are casting improperly" training many get, for example) as being an absolute success/failure type of situation. What percentage of fish do you take during a "dragfree" drift for: My estimates: Dries: 90 Nymphs: 80 Wets: 50 Streamers: 20

Hmm…I thought a little about it, and I can’t come up with any numbers beyond mere WAGs.  Maybe to my detriment, I don’t seem to take note of this type of data in such a way to be able to quantify it. I’m not suggesting that doing so is improper, just that I don’t.  Or maybe I do take subconscious note, but it has become one of those "I don’t know why I do it that way, I just do" things.   But if forced to make a WAG, I’d say dries, about like your number, wets, about 80-90, and streamers, upwards of 0, but less than 10 <G (simply due to the way I <mostly fish streamers, they wouldn’t be doing much "drifting," drag-free or otherwise, as I take your meaning of "drifting.") TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Willi

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One of the first hurdles a beginer needs to clear is to learn how to present a fly on a dead drift. It’s a very important skill but how often is it necessary or even desirable? What percentage of fish do you take during a "dragfree" drift for: Dries  

have to say 99%  Worked dries are a minor tactic for me. Nymphs  

couldn’t possibly tell with the deep nymphs, but certainly to shallow sighted fish 100% Wets

70% Streamers

10% Steve

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What percentage of fish do you take during a "dragfree" drift for: Dries       95% Nymphs       95% Wets       40% Streamers

     10%

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What percentage of fish do you take during a "dragfree" drift for: Dries       95% Nymphs       95% Wets       40% Streamers      10%

Your percentage for nymphs is surprising to me.  Do you usually let them swing across at the end of the dragfree part of the drift?  I take many fish on nymphs, especially BH PTs, on the rising part of the swing–almost as many as when I fish traditional wets (soft hackles, etc.) this way.   JR

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One of the first hurdles a beginer needs to clear is to learn how to present a fly on a dead drift. It’s a very important skill but how often is it necessary or even desirable? My estimates: Nymphs: 80

The more I think about nymphing, the harder it is to believe that a drag free drift happens very often.  Think how difficult it can be with dry flies – in 2 dimensions.  Nymphing is in 3 dimensions, so the problems you have with a dry fly drift are magnified.  Finally, add in the fact that the water slows near the bottom of the river where we often fish nymphs, and it’s a wonder we ever catch a fish. I conclude 2 things: – we are not always getting a drag free drift, but many nymphs do move around under water under their own power.  Sometimes drag simulates this. – there are so many swirling currents in "mixed water" (near bottom rocks and obstructions), that even the trout can’t always detect drag underwater.  Even natural nymphs move in randomly changing ways in some of the "micro currents". There must be places where the flow is constant and trout can detect drag, but there must be places where it’s not, too.  You can probably convince yourself of this by tossing little things into turbulent water several times and watching how they drift differently each time.

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One of the first hurdles a beginer needs to clear is to learn how to present a fly on a dead drift. It’s a very important skill but how often is it necessary or even desirable?

An interesting question, and one I have no idea of the answer.   One thing RDean said tweaked my though process however, and I began thinking not in terms of drag, but time as measurement.   I’m actually amazed at how many of the fish I catch hit the fly within a couple seconds of it hitting the water.   That probably means I suck at drag free drift.   I’m also amazed at how fast the fish can get there.   Unless I’m dropping it right on his nose, those guys really cover some ground, so to speak.   On occasions where flows are simple enough, I do catch some farther down the drift, but generally if I don’t have a take in the first 5 sec., I’m not going to get one. Joe F.

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Question:

Anyone got a recommendation for a nice pourvoire no more than 6 hours from Montreal? I’d like to flyfish for trout in May. Some place nice…the wife is coming too. Thanks!

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<<Anyone got a recommendation for a nice pourvoire no more than 6 hours from Montreal? Pourvoire?  Housekeeping cabins?   Dave LaCourse

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Howdy from Quebec: I can recommend "Pourvoirie Real Masse" in St-Zenon. It is located 2 hours from Montreal. It is a great place for easy fishing an a happy wife. All the lakes are stocked. The food is fantastic. If you are interested I can give you more information. Could be a little late for reservation for may 1999… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Anyone got a recommendation for a nice pourvoire no more than 6 hours from Montreal? I’d like to flyfish for trout in May. Some place nice…the wife is coming too. Thanks!

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dave –  i think "pourvoire" is one of them fancy words frequently used by Jim Roberts (a/k/a pamlico jim)  after an evening at the Villa Roma Bar, (jim begins talkin some kind of foreign language after a couple hours), ‘cept he pronounces it "pervoir"…as in…"damn, ya’ll, i think that there fella’s a pervoir"…you don’t want to put jim in any pervoir cabin, i assure you…  (seems there ought to be a pourvoire closer than 6 hours from montreal though) …course, it might be that the word really means "i see you pour forth" or "i watch you urinate", in which case the guy using it is a "pervoir"…but it might be that somebody simply misspelled the thing and meant "Pourboire", which is a tip for a good drink, which is just fine with me, and jim i suppose. (sorry to intrude, but the whiskey got me goin and i just couldn’t help myself…) jeff

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Howdy from Quebec: I can recommend "Pourvoirie Real Masse" in St-Zenon. It is located 2 hours from Montreal. It is a great place for easy fishing an a happy wife. All the lakes are stocked. The food is fantastic. If you are interested I can give you more information. Could be a little late for reservation for may 1999… Anyone got a recommendation for a nice pourvoire no more than 6 hours from Montreal? I’d like to flyfish for trout in May. Some place nice…the wife is coming too. Thanks!

For those who dont know what "pourvoirie" means… "Outfitter"  Michel

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well hell…if he’d said "pourvoirie", we’d all have understood…but he said "pourvoire"…aarrgg…don’t you just hate it when that happens… jeff

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Got a web site I could look at? Also, I don’t like boats much. Can I use my waders here? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Howdy from Quebec: I can recommend "Pourvoirie Real Masse" in St-Zenon. It is located 2 hours from Montreal. It is a great place for easy fishing an a happy wife. All the lakes are stocked. The food is fantastic. If you are interested I can give you more information. Could be a little late for reservation for may 1999… Anyone got a recommendation for a nice pourvoire no more than 6 hours from Montreal? I’d like to flyfish for trout in May. Some place nice…the wife is coming too. Thanks!

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With Real Masse you will be fishing in lakes. Fishing is from 8 am to 5 pm.  Traveling from lodge to lake is by golf cart…. they clean and pack  your fish… followed by a "gastronomic meal"…. This is the place where fishermen take there non fishing wife… not the wild canadian outback. If this is not what you are looking I can give you the phone number of "Sentier Chasse et Peche" (Or I could mail you a copy). "Sentier chasse et peche" is a hunting and fishing magazine here in Quebec. Finally I can also suggest to contact Orvis fly fishing shop in Montreal. They can provide information. They also organize fishing trips.   Boutique Salmo Nature (Orvis) 110 McGill Montreal 514-871-8447 Regards – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Got a web site I could look at? Also, I don’t like boats much. Can I use my waders here? Howdy from Quebec: I can recommend "Pourvoirie Real Masse" in St-Zenon. It is located 2 hours from Montreal. It is a great place for easy fishing an a happy wife. All the lakes are stocked. The food is fantastic. If you are interested I can give you more information. Could be a little late for reservation for may 1999… Anyone got a recommendation for a nice pourvoire no more than 6 hours from Montreal? I’d like to flyfish for trout in May. Some place nice…the wife is coming too. Thanks!

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Question:

I can relate to both sides of this arguement for many reasons. As a long time worm fisherman I used to keep all the trout that got hooked so badly they would die anyway. I never considered the fact that using bait caused many more fish to be gut hooked because I was not a passive fisherman. Constant vigilence and setting the hook instantly on any change of line drift or tension resulted in 99% of my fish being hooked in the mouth and easily released. If I brought home 3 fish a week it was lucky and my family loved fresh trout grilled over an open fire.     Then I discovered flyfishing. I started fishing dry flies and watched the number of trout I caught rise at an incredible rate. catching 3 or 4 fish a day was not uncommon. (love those adirondack small streams) and I didnt seem to hurt any more than I did when fishing terratus(from the scientific term for earthworm). this time frame also includes the time when the state made a flyfish only, no kill section of the west branch of the Ausable river in northern ny.     More time has passed and now I can drop a size 20 dry on a7x tippet without a splash and the catch count can get over 30 fish a day, still very low on the casualty rate. Life and reality deal me some shitty blows, unemployment, single parenting, all combine to make fishing a necessity. (hope you never have to explain to your kids why there are no "snacks"  in the house) and yet I find myself unable to change my ways and still only keep the gut hooked fish. Maybe i’m a little slower on the trigger on purpose but rules you make for yourself are harder to break. So we are eating trout 3 days a week (and lots of macaroni and cheese) My eight year old son takes up fly fishing and endorses catch and release whole heartedly, lets every fish go back. But still prefers the ones dad catches over Mrs. Pauls. the center brook is an easy walk from home and loaded with little rainbows from a local dec hatchery so you dont even have to feel guilty if you keep a couple. But the big native brown trout are always set free. The catch and release section of the Ausable gives us tons of pleasure. it’s turning out some very large fish and the state decides to help by stepping up the stocking program.     Time goes on. My son now a gangly ten year old with legs like a three weight rod has become a better fly fisherman than I ever dreamed of being. compared to his presentation, I seem to beat the water to a froth. Times are a little better the wolves are no longer knocking on the door. We’ve graduated to bamboo and don’t get to fish as often as we like but still we’re eating fis two or three times a week. fishing the trophy section of the ausable a couple times a month but the trophy trout are gone. the no kill has become a no skill area loaded with stocked trout who haven’t been in the water long enought to get wet.     so whats the bottom line (#3 weight forward sinking haha). Im not exactly sure. the fly fishing only area managed the way all the books say is right has gone to hell. the other sections of the Ausable where things were left alone and people can remove some of the dumber fish still produces large fish. The flume pool just below the catch and release produces a few 6 pounders every year. The little brook near home still produces large browns. I released a for pounder in july from a pool not over eight feet wide and 18 inches deep. There are enough little stockers to keep the kids happy without being overdone. The fish seem healthy and plentiful. So the best policy seems to be let nature take it’s course. maybe a little nudge to help repair damage we did in the past, but don’t try to force anything on anyone. Only make small changes and if it doesn’t work change it back. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it.     As far as animal rights, I  feel that has to be made on a personal basis. if you don’t want to eat animals than don’t,  but I don’t eat vegetables. So, since I would rather not starve I guess I will keep the grill for now, not worry about the carrots and onoins being so alive that they would grow if put back in their natural environment. Since the hook probably hurts the fish less than the hole I allowed some teen aged nitwit at the mall to put in my sons ear, (let’s not go there please) I won’t loose any sleep over the trauma I put them thru

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 Life and reality deal me some shitty blows, unemployment, single parenting, all combine to make fishing a necessity. (hope you never have to explain to your kids why there are no "snacks"  in the house)

I don’t know if you live on the banks of the Ausable or some other attractive water – but in a similar situation I could never justify fishing even if I brought a fish or two home – the cost of gas for the car alone would buy more food for the table then I could ever catch and kill. Ralph H remove "(take_this_out)" for email reply.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Life and reality deal me some shitty blows, unemployment, single parenting, all combine to make fishing a necessity. (hope you never have to explain to your kids why there are no "snacks"  in the house) I don’t know if you live on the banks of the Ausable or some other attractive water – but in a similar situation I could never justify fishing even if I brought a fish or two home – the cost of gas for the car alone would buy more food for the table then I could ever catch and kill. Ralph H remove "(take_this_out)" for email reply.

        good grief, ralph:  the guy clearly states that he lives "within walking distance of the central brook", where he keeps the fish his family needed to survive.  then he continues an innocently profound post that goes right to the heart of your obsession, and you choose to jump in his shit about anal retentive economics, the basis of which is hopelessly flawed, factually and conceptually.         you are sometimes a real handfull, ralph.           a. wayne harrison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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Thanks for pointing that out to me Wayne. Where would I be without you? Ralph H – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –         good grief, ralph:  the guy clearly states that he lives "within walking distance of the central brook", where he keeps the fish his family needed to survive.  then he continues an innocently profound post that goes right to the heart of your obsession, and you choose to jump in his shit about anal retentive economics, the basis of which is hopelessly flawed, factually and conceptually.         you are sometimes a real handfull, ralph.         a. wayne harrison

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Thanks for pointing that out to me Wayne. Where would I be without you?         well, ralph, that is a truly profound question, one that i doubt i can honestly answer.

or answer honestly for that matter! Ralph H – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –         good grief, ralph:  the guy clearly states that he lives "within walking distance of the central brook", where he keeps the fish his family needed to survive.  then he continues an innocently profound post that goes right to the heart of your obsession, and you choose to jump in his shit about anal retentive economics, the basis of which is hopelessly flawed, factually and conceptually.         you are sometimes a real handfull, ralph.         a. wayne harrison

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Thanks for pointing that out to me Wayne. Where would I be without you?

        well, ralph, that is a truly profound question, one that i doubt i can honestly answer.  given your relentless propensity for egocentric analysis, my best bet would be that you would be utterly the same without me as you are with me, and the rest of humanity, for that matter.         a. wayne harrison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Ralph H         good grief, ralph:  the guy clearly states that he lives "within walking distance of the central brook", where he keeps the fish his family needed to survive.  then he continues an innocently profound post that goes right to the heart of your obsession, and you choose to jump in his shit about anal retentive economics, the basis of which is hopelessly flawed, factually and conceptually.         you are sometimes a real handfull, ralph.         a. wayne harrison

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Question:

Folks, I am heading into the bob marshall wilderness aug 20.  i will be flying to great falls.  Does anyone know of a decent fly shop in town where I could check  in, get some last minute flies, license, and related? Thanks for any help. edwin college station, tx

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Folks, I am heading into the bob marshall wilderness aug 20.  i will be flying to great falls.  Does anyone know of a decent fly shop in town where I could check  in, get some last minute flies, license, and related? Thanks for any help. edwin college station, tx

Call Wolverton’s Fly Shop.  He’s in the book.  Boyd Wolverton is a great guy and will take good care of you.  He and his brother were born and raised in the area and should be able to set you up with anything you need.  I have been fishing with them for years.   Bud Crist Diamond C Kennel Blum, TX Http://www.birddogs.pair.com

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Question:

Gruezi! Anybody out there have recommendations on decent streams in Switzerland for flyfishing? I am particularly interested in streams around Zurich, but would love to hear any other recommendations you might have. TIA, Sid

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Eine sch

Question:

I am starting to stealhead fish this winter and need to know what the best fly would be.  I fish in the B.C. area.

Hi Guy, I don’t know if there is a best fly or not rather they may very well be favorite fly. For me my favorite steelhead fly is the green butt skunk. — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (97 materials catalog) http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

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I am starting to stealhead fish this winter and need to know what the best fly would be.  I fish in the B.C. area.

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I am starting to stealhead fish this winter and need to know what the best fly would be.  I fish in the B.C. area.

 The Popsicle’s  are  great fly patterns . This may sound weird but I like to throw a Purple Muddler (wt). I have not fished B.C. , but I would not be surprised if most patterns that work here in Cal./Oregan/Washington would produce in BC . I’m affraid that FF’ing for SH in my neck of the woods is kaput. We are  in a major flood stage and will be blown out for weeks, months. Oh well… back to the bench….   Harry

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The best fly is the one that the fish are taking at that particular day, time, and body of water.  Fishing conditions can change instantly during winter fishing season on the West Coast.  You will need a variety of patterns from bright and flashy to dark and subdued.  Steelhead fishing is a challenging prospect.   Good Luck Jeff

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I am starting to stealhead fish this winter and need to know what the best fly would be.  I fish in the B.C. area.

Trey Combs, in his book "Steelhead Fishing and Flies" gives3 lists of flies for BC streams. Karl Mausser’s list (for the Kispiox, Babine, Bulkley and Morice Rivers, all Skeena tributaries) is:         1. Kispiox Special         2. Sack Fly (a Burlap with an orange hackle tail)         3. Black Beauty         4. Skykomish Sunrise         5. McLeod Ugly Bucktail         6. Royal Coachman A Morice and Bulkley guide lists these as favorites:         1. Van Luven         2. Wooly Worm         3. Burlap         4. Stillaguamish Sunrise         5. Orange Optic         7. Skykomish Sunrise A Northwest fly seller gives this list as their top ten over a 37 year period:         1. Skunk         2. Royal Coachman Bucktail         3. Umpqua Special         4. Kalama Special         5. Skykomish Sunrise         6. Fall Favorite         7. Golden Demon         8. Spruce         9. Thor         10. Silver Hilton A couple of other good performing flies are Purple Peril and Green Butted Skunk. Tight Lines, -Burton

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The best fly of course is the one that is in the river on the end of your line. For a start, check out either of Trey Combs books ( eg. Steelhead Flyfishing and Flys) from your local library. My favorite fly is a Brad’s Brat (bright fly) or a Purple Peril (dark). Bart Phillips

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Question:

I fly fish in Ontario for steelhead and but am going to be in British Columbia on some of the Fraser tributaries in a couple weeks.  I was wondering if someone could give me some insight into some common wet patterns and sizes.  Thanks in advance, Dan

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I fly fish in Ontario for steelhead and but am going to be in British Columbia on some of the Fraser tributaries in a couple weeks.  I was wondering if someone could give me some insight into some common wet patterns and sizes.  Thanks in advance, Dan

      The skunk is a hot one to try.

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Question:

[snip snip] in the other direction. The Blue is good as is the Frying pan but the smaller and less fished rivers and creeks of N. Co. are a true joy. The fish may not be as big but the crowds are not there and the experience is

[snip snip] they won’t be for long if this keeps up… Tim Walker

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I am going to Colorado next summer to fly fish.  Since I will be driving from West Virginia, I would prefer not to go more than 2 hours from Denver. I need advice as to the best streams to fish and possibly places to stay. I would prefer a cabin or cottage.  What about the South Platte, Fryingpan, Colorado, and Blue River? Which would be the best choice? Any help or suggestions will be greatly appreciated. Thanks for you time. Scott

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There are many good places within 2 hrs of Denver. The S.Platte is over fished and crowed with very inconsiderate fishermen. I would suggest going in the other direction. The Blue is good as is the Frying pan but the smaller and less fished rivers and creeks of N. Co. are a true joy. The fish may not be as big but the crowds are not there and the experience is much better. Pristene settings, little or no trash. Check out the high mountain lakes and streams of the RMNP. Estes Park Anglers can help with guides and places to stay in the area.

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I try and visit my some of my kids in Colo every summer.  But as you know even in late August the So Platte at Deckers was unfishable and the Arkansas as well.  But maybe this summer will be normal…. South Platte River in Deckers.  Take Rt 285 west out of Denver.  Turn Left at Pine Junction.  Follow to the bottom the the canyon.  Use 2 flies, RS-2 and Buckskin (both nymphs) size 18 or 20.  No larger than a 6X leader is mandatory.  Use a small floating strike indicator and place a very small shot about 6 to 8 inches from the fly.  The idea is to keep the nymph just off the bottom so adjusting the indicator for water depth is essential.  Fish places where slow water meets fast water like behind larger rocks.  The fish are there so make sure you work the section very well adjusting the indicator for depth.  Looking for flashing fish near the bottom that are feeding.  Flip the rig up stream and let the indicator float as naturally as possible.  Keep repeating until the indicator hesitates the slightest in the float.  Just raise up you rod tip and bingo! there’s a fish on.   If you use this method correctly you will get hook ups (gauranteed!!) the trick is to bring them to net on a 6X leader in fast water.  The regulations are flies and lures only, 2 fish per day over 16 inches.  Try just down stream from the trestle bridge at Deckers.  The technique is effective on all Colo streams.  The "Flies and Lies" fly shop in Deckers can also help in supplying you with flies. On a Saturday, you will not be alone.  But there are so many fish and so few fisherman that know the method and use it effectively , it has never gotten in my way.  I’d recommend getting there at 1st light (Say 5:30) fish unitl 1000 AM and then leave.  Return at say 6 Pm and fish until dark (9 PM).  I’ve found you can avoid a crowd this way.                                                indicator                                                                                                                                  micro shot                        (e.g. lil corkie) In the current, looks like this flow is right to left                                                                                !                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 !                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 ! I’d also suggest Tarryall Resevoir, over Kenosha Pass (RT 285 west and turn left at Jefferson) in south park.  Wade fish from shore with damsel fly/dragon fly/sonefly nymphs twitched just below the surface (long leader, 10′).  You can cast to feeding fish.  Fish the side that has the paved road frontage toward the dam (in between the stone jettys).  There is very good dry fly activity there after the sun goes down (say 7pm) and dark. (Native browns, stocked rainbows (12-14") and even some cutthroat and kokanee).  Tarryall creek (not subject to runoff) downstream from the resevoir is also pretty good (this section is now part of a private club). We have had great success on the Arkansas River down stream from Salida.  Good success fishing for Browns on brown stone fly nymphs fished close shore.  Best technique is walk down the middle and fish both shore lines.  The other 2 flies that have been good to us are the muddler minnow and the Renegade.  This stretch has the same regulations as the Deckers section of the So. Platte.  The signs this summer indicated it is now Public Lands all the way down to the bridge in Wellsville. Keep in touch, maybe we can "hook up" when I am out there this summer (I hope). Good fishin!!! Bill Althoff

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Question:

I’ll be staying on Caliper Lake in late August and am interested in fishing other lakes in the area.  I’m interested in Walleyes and trophy Northerns.

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I’ll be staying on Caliper Lake in late August and am interested in fishing other lakes in the area.  I’m interested in Walleyes and trophy Northerns.

Would you perhaps be staying at the Caliper Lake Lodge? If so, talk to the owner (his name is Cleary (sp?)), he’ll be able to put you on the fish. We (my brothers & I) do a fly-in trip from there every fall. Caliper Lake is the take-off spot for us. Good Luck! Scott — — – — – — – — – — – — – — – — – — – — – — – — – Launchpad is an experimental internet BBS. The views of its users do not necessarily represent those of UNC-Chapel Hill, OIT, or the SysOps. — – — – — – — – — – — – — – — – — – — – — – — –

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I’ll be staying on Caliper Lake in late August and am interested in fishing other lakes in the area.  I’m interested in Walleyes and trophy Northerns.

 Go out into Lake of the Woods if you can. There are some bays just a few  miles south of Nestor Falls with great Northern and Muskie fishing. Try  Mepps Giant Killers in fire tiger blade /black bucktail and rainbow blade  /minnow. That should get them interested. There are many areas out there  that hold good walleyes.  You might try Crow Lake if you’re interested in Muskies. Not many  Northerns there, but the Muskies are very underfished. The lake is mostly  noted for Lake Trout and so noone pays attention to anything else.  I fished the little lake just east of Nestor Falls – actually its more of  a river. Wouldn’t recommend it. Small fish and not many of them, except  for a few nice crappies.  Good luck,  Herb

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