Question:

Well, Brian, how was the new SLT?

Great. It’s a nice little rod. I do think, however, that Sage should have kept their SP line. The 480 SP blows away the 480 SLT even though they say the SLT is an improved SP. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

Response:

http://gula.org/roffswaps/swap.php?page=FS2002).

That is one beautifully photographed selection of great flies. Somehow, I missed it the first time around. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

http://gula.org/roffswaps/swap.php?page=FS2002). That is one beautifully photographed selection of great flies. Somehow, I missed it the first time around.

Yes it is. Stan did a tremendous amount of work on it. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

Response:

http://gula.org/roffswaps/swap.php?page=FS2002). That is one beautifully photographed selection of great flies. Somehow, I missed it the first time around.

Not only are they well photographed, but there are some damned fine tiers in this group. I’ve been using each of these in rotation as a desktop background on my PC. My tying is improving a bit. Could the two related?? Tim osmosis at work

Response:

 However, the fellow fishing is a great friend of mine so I broke down and pulled out Willi’s Snowshoe Hare Emerger (see http://gula.org/roffswaps/swap.php?page=FS2002). The guy took a fat 19" brown trout on that fly to wrap up his day. He was very happy as practically all our fish caught that day were on nymphs. Anyway, I was glad I went ahead and used my flyswap flies for someone else. Thanks for a great pattern, Willi.

Glad it worked for you. It’s a good BWO pattern. Willi

Response:

http://gula.org/roffswaps ). That is one beautifully photographed selection of great flies. Somehow, I missed it the first time around. Yes it is. Stan did a tremendous amount of work on it. —

Just to keep the record straight, the work is minimal.  I set up a short PHP template for the pages 2 years ago, and all I need to do is add a table with the fly names and the tyers (which is basically copied from the list the swapmeisters provide).  I think the latest page took about 30 minutes total to set up – way less time than tying 43 Usuals for the swap… Paul Goodwin’s photos are the real time consumer, and he does a really nice job on them.  Every swap looks better than the last. –Stan (thanks again Paul)

Response:

Well, Brian, how was the new SLT?

Brian Great. It’s a nice little rod. I do think, however, that Sage Brian should have kept their SP line. The 480 SP blows away the 480 Brian SLT even though they say the SLT is an improved SP. Thanks, Brian. This is what I’ve heard too – that the SP was an exceptionally good rod, and that the SLT may well have problems to live up to the standards set by its predecessor. — Jarmo Hurri address or apply rot13 to header email address.

Response:

Brian Anyway, in rigging an extra rod (brand new Sage 480 SLT w/ Ross Brian G1; hadn’t even been bent by a fish yet) for the fisherman, I Brian started to look through my fly boxes for a fly selection we Brian hadn’t tried yet that day. Well, Brian, how was the new SLT? — Jarmo Hurri address or apply rot13 to header email address.

Response:

Was on the Missouri this past week and found myself in somewhat of a dilemma. On Saturday, the conditions were almost ideal on the river (which equates to, basically, that the wind wasn’t howling at a steady 35 knots!) with mild temps and high, overcast skies. There was a really big hatch of BWO during the mid-afternoon and we worked several pods of rising fish although rising activity was way off for the conditions, I thought. Anyway, in rigging an extra rod (brand new Sage 480 SLT w/ Ross G1; hadn’t even been bent by a fish yet) for the fisherman, I started to look through my fly boxes for a fly selection we hadn’t tried yet that day. I did have my box of 2002 fly swap flies but I’d been hording them for myself. However, the fellow fishing is a great friend of mine so I broke down and pulled out Willi’s Snowshoe Hare Emerger (see http://gula.org/roffswaps/swap.php?page=FS2002). The guy took a fat 19" brown trout on that fly to wrap up his day. He was very happy as practically all our fish caught that day were on nymphs. Anyway, I was glad I went ahead and used my flyswap flies for someone else. Thanks for a great pattern, Willi. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

Response:

Question:

Frank: It was also while on his honeymoon.  What a kicker. Nice report GM.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Report included pictures, extra roffians, huge fish, a veritable reiding rainbow, booze, perseverance in the face of illness, food, culture, geography, deep fried gerbils (well, they coulda been there!)….    Excellent report.  Congrats on the big fish and nice to hear the little brother is finally working again.  Good on ya, both you and Clark.  Sounds like the trip of a lifetime. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply.

Response:

Frank: It was also while on his honeymoon.  What a kicker. Nice report GM.

Thanks Stan. Still wanna do a run to the Battenkill? — Gary (Email address is munged with x’s)

Response:

Thanks Stan. Still wanna do a run to the Battenkill?

I’m thinking it’s a bit late for this year – the trout season ended Oct. 28′th. I tried to get in a last day of warmwater fishing last Saturday in Otis and it snowed!  We didn’t even get our canoes in the water<g.  We could always try to hit the Swift or the Millers.

Response:

… We could always try to hit the Swift or the Millers.

um…stan, could you maybe hold off for a while?  i’m currently engaged in a conflict in which i’m getting my ass whipped pretty good… …where is the millers – mass.? jeff

Response:

Thanks Stan. Still wanna do a run to the Battenkill? I’m thinking it’s a bit late for this year – the trout season ended Oct. 28′th. I tried to get in a last day of warmwater fishing last Saturday in Otis and it snowed!  We didn’t even get our canoes in the water<g.  We could always try to hit the Swift or the Millers.

Millers/Swift sounds good. Is the FF Only section open yet? The NY State side of the Battenkill is still open. I don’t think it closes, or it does at the end of Nov. Or did regs change? — Gary (Email address is munged with x’s)

Response:

…where is the millers – mass.?

The Millers River is a small river flowing west just south of the New Hampshire border into the Connecticut.  It is a typical New England river in that it has been dammed and abused by mills for a couple hundred years. There are some beautiful stretches though, and Gary wrote a nice piece about it this summer concerning a seemingly impossible cast. –Stan

Response:

Millers/Swift sounds good. Is the FF Only section open yet? The NY State side of the Battenkill is still open. I don’t think it closes, or it does at the end of Nov. Or did regs change? — Gary

I’m not sure about the NY regs.  I think that parts of the Ausable, Schroon and Battenkill are open year-round.  The general regs trout season ends Oct. 15. The Swift is still closed upstream from the Rt. 9 bridge.  It was supposed to re-open on Nov. 1 but the latest scare this week made them postpone the opening until Nov. 7.  Downstream is still open as usual, and has had much heavier pressure than usual because of the closed section.

Response:

Thanks for the kind words Gary. I also can add some reasons for the lack of a photo of the big fish and the fault is squarely mine, though Gary is too much of a gentleman to indicate so. In the process of landing the fish the fly came free of the fish as often happens at the end of the battle. On this occasion though it was because the clumsy guide had stepped on the leader thus freeing the fish prior to Gary getting the camera out. It was impossible to hold such a fish unrestrained  she was a big powerful brown at least in excess of 10lbs, exact weight I could only guess at between 10 and 12 pounds. A fish Gary should be proud of and one I am gutted to have prevented a photo of. So I owe apologies for "screwing up" to Gary and the promise of being more diligent should he ever return. I for one hope you do Gary, you were a pleasure to fish with. Clark

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I met up with Clark Reid a week ago today for a few frolics in the middle of the South Island of New Zealand. Firstly I am eternally grateful to him, as the poor bastard was sick as a dog. So sick as to get up at 3am the night before, drive about 50 miles to hospitalize himself, only to be too tired to make the hospital, sleep in the truck and he still made our date at 8:30am. I felt guilty all day until I gave him a drop o’ old Jameson’s and he felt better. So did I, when he reciprocated with a delicious sour mash of his choosing. We were in the Mt Cook vicinity (http://www.rockypond.com/mtcook.jpg), an area that has a look not unlike that of Three Rivers in Montana (wide, arid, surrounded by mountains, http://www.rockypond.com/scenery.jpg). The nearby Lake Tekapo, where we stayed, is spectacular with a deep azure color from the nearby glaciers (picture includes shot of your friend and humble narrator, http://www.rockypond.com/tekapo.jpg). The first stream (http://www.rockypond.com/firstriver.jpg) we visited was about 15 feet in width, slightly off color and cold. I admit that it did not look like much. Clark assured me it held big fish. Clark explained that Kiwi fishing is different from US or UK fishing in that there are fewer fish that are much larger. This was certainly bourn out this day. Being early season there was not much of any dry fly activity, which was slightly disappointing, so we nymphed all day. I pounded water for about an hour and eventually hooked up near a wooden bridge. At first I didn’t think it a large fish as he came towards me, but when he made a run upstream, I was in no doubt. Upstream was an old wooden bridge and as I applied pressure I will never forget the wave the fish created in the river as it turned. The fish was a brown about 26 inches in size, maybe 8lbs or so. It fought for 10 mins and we eventually tagged him at an undercut. After that we moved to a different river over the nearby Burke’s Pass. We stopped to review a fish that Clark had scouted the day before that was in a tough, nearly impossible position. Sitting in front of a bridge leg, with a brush accumulation behind him, in the current that itself broke both ways around the bridge was a good 10lb brown. He was spooked immediately, but twenty mins later after we had eaten lunch and got ready he was back. This time, from the river level, I was fairly sure with Clark’s help I could get something on his nose. There was a rocky braid in the river shy of the lie and I hunched down using it as cover. When I reached the braid I lay down flat and peaked up to get the bearing; Clark called the casts though. Too short, lifted too soon, etc. My fear was to let the fly go too long and catch the brush pile. I managed two good drifts to the fish which he ignored and then Clark chose the strategy that since the current was breaking, making dead drift impossible, a swimming nymph would work. Clark told me the nymph was akin to the Isonychia, which I have had great success with in the US. I cannot remember but I believe it was the first or second cast that he yelled "Strike!" To my surprise he was hooked (the fish, not Clark). What ensued was almost complete anarchy and what happened next transpired over a few minutes. I stood up and the fish took off upstream. Above the pool were some step-like rapids and white water, which the fish barreled through even though I had full power on the loaded rod. Impressive indeed. I managed to turn him and he came down the pool to the (those who are following this could guess this next bit) brush pile at the bridge. Once he was there I thought it was game over. I pulled and could feel nothing only dead weight. As I was upstream I knew I was applying pressure in the wrong direction (either that, or I was trying to pull a brush pile and bridge in my direction).  I had to get a more acute angle. Without thinking I jumped into the white water and crossed this extremely fast current. I never would have done this without the adrenalin rush I was now experiencing and as I had to wade downstream I think this was the only thing that saved me from a dunking. By now both Clark and I had fallen a few times due to the step sides of the loose moraine in the rivers. When I got across and was almost 180 degrees from him I was pleased to see the fish was still on and I had successfully moved him from the brush pile into the deep blue pool. This was a good sighting point and how beautiful he was: a big olive head and a body that was 30 inches at least. He came to my feet and I contemplated beaching him, until I fell once again and this time painfully. He was spooked and off downstream, where, to Clark’s credit he was waiting for the fish in the shallow waters. At this point we released him a little too fast for a photograph, but that did not matter to me. It was a good stalk and a good team effort for a righteous fish. We could only laugh and shake our heads at the marvel of that emotional deluge we call fly-fishing. I had the greatest feeling though I was in pain from the falls. I will add at this point it was becoming clear to me that another characteristic of Kiwi fishing is that the river size coupled with large fish size definitely put the odds in favor of the fish. I personally could learn a lot more about playing a large fish by fishing more down there. By now, it was mid afternoon and I had had two fish. Like I mentioned earlier, this is pretty typical. I managed another fish a few minutes later upstream, about 3lbs (http://www.rockypond.com/fish3.jpg). We worked another hour and then decided to move on. As we were on either side of a pass in these past two fish it was apparent that the weather here is strange. At the last river the sky became cloudy and snow was visible at higher elevations, but as we returned across Burke’s Pass again the sky cleared. We fished a fast deep stream in the hot sunshine (name escapes me now, but here’s pic, http://www.rockypond.com/stream3.jpg). Spent nearly two hours here with no luck though we covered a lot of water. The afternoon was getting late and we decided to hit a creek called Mary Burn (a lot of Scots settled NZ). This river was barely a trickle (http://www.rockypond.com/maryburn.jpg). Tannin stained almost like the Scottish or Irish streams are, but barely 5 feet wide. No way was I going to believe that there were anything but fingerlings in there. I hiked off a bit and came to an electrical cattle fence. As I walked up the soft bank I spooked a 22inch brown, which scared the living shit out of me. He nearly beached himself trying to get away. I cannot imagine how this tiny stream grew such enormous fish. In any case this was to be the closest encounter I would have to one of Mary Burn’s progeny. A wind had whipped up and was blowing about 25 knots. As you can imagine trying to hit a less than 1-foot target area in a 5-foot stream with this kind of wind required skills I have yet not acquired, nor maybe never will. Also the temperature was dropping and this wind bit cold. We decided to head off for somewhere sheltered. Sadly the weather did not get better and it was 39F (down about 30 degrees from 2 hours earlier) due to a cold front that had moved in. We decided to call it a day around 7pm I think. It was almost 12 hours fishing and it was the most enjoyable kind. Good fish, good water, good spirits and good conversations. And, yes, Clark Reid is a great guide and good company. Anyway I do thank him again for a great time. He may be able to explain better than I to ROFF as to why the streams are as they are. I think it is to do with a low pH, no environmental issues (NZ has NO fossil fuel or nuclear power plants – all Hydro). That evening, myself and my new wife drove outside of town in the clear, still sky of the new cold front we took in Crux, the Southern Cross (a lifelong dream) and the Clouds of Magellan; not to mentions the upside down Northern Constellations. For the rest of my travels I stopped at many, many streams and every one had big fish (sunglasses over lens to polarize, http://www.rockypond.com/feeder.jpg), even by the Angler’s Access parking areas. One stream looked like someone had surgically lifted the River Avon in Wiltshire and dropped it in the valley of the Eglinton River. I watched a fish work every few seconds and he was mine (strictly up-and-across, mind), but I was sans rod and reel and could only dream. Another series of small lakes held a good dozen two foot long trout that sipped away oblivious to the visitors and gave me a good treatise on the Brownian feeding manner of the still water trout. Sorry for the long report. Hope you enjoyed it.

… read more »

Response:

Great report.  Thanks for writing it up. bruce h

Response:

Great report, Gary. Good reading and excellent pictures. Very well done. George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

Response:

Report included pictures, extra roffians, huge fish, a veritable reiding rainbow, booze, perseverance in the face of illness, food, culture, geography, deep fried gerbils (well, they coulda been there!)….    Excellent report.  Congrats on the big fish and nice to hear the little brother is finally working again.  Good on ya, both you and Clark.  Sounds like the trip of a lifetime. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply.

Response:

I met up with Clark Reid a week ago today for a few frolics in the middle of the South Island of New Zealand.

really enjoyed your descriptions of the place & the fishing Mu

Response:

[great reportt snipped for brevity] Thanks for reading.

Thanks for writing! Steve

Response:

I met up with Clark Reid a week ago today for a few frolics in the middle of the South Island of New Zealand.

Great report snipped. Including pictures with your report was very appreciated. If find it interesting that the trout population is lower than here in the States but that there are more big fish. Willi

Response:

Sorry for the long report.

Uhhh…. don’t mention it.  Thanks.

Response:

I met up with Clark Reid a week ago <snip   Thanks for reading.

Thanks for writing.  Nice report. Kevin

Response:

Superb report, and I really enjoyed the excellent photos. It looks a lot like the Sawtooth and Stanley Basins, but the fish are a lot bigger. Is the area in runoff conditions now? BTW, I can’t believe you didn’t get a photo of that 30" brown. I’ll bet it flopped away before the camera was ready. Bruce Hopper and I are experts in that maneuver. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Superb report, and I really enjoyed the excellent photos. It looks a lot like the Sawtooth and Stanley Basins, but the fish are a lot bigger. Is the area in runoff conditions now?

It is supposed to be in runoff, but NZ had been in a drought situation for the past few years, so many rivers are dry and many are below average flows. Actually one picture I wish I had snapped was up on the lake of a boat ramp that was easily 150ft long and the lake itself was about 20ft beyond the *end* of the ramp. BTW, I can’t believe you didn’t get a photo of that 30" brown. I’ll bet it flopped away before the camera was ready. Bruce Hopper and I are experts in that maneuver.

LOL. You read it well.  Clark had a normal film camera and he was taking pics of the antics. Not sure if he actually caught it though. I certainly did not have time to get my camera out. — Gary (Email address is munged with x’s)

Response:

I met up with Clark Reid a week ago today for a few frolics in the middle of the South Island of New Zealand.

…and the goodness of this strange place is continued… thanks gary.  rw and you have raised the bar for trip reports with your illustrations, and i’ve enjoyed them a lot. jeff (off to wade the stagnant streams of the pitt county courthouse…)

Response:

jeff (off to wade the stagnant streams of the pitt county courthouse…)

        same same for your brother at the bar, little wayno, up into the wilds of surrey county, a lawless land if ever there were one… wayno  (but damn if those ol boys don’t grow some righteous ganga!)

Response:

I met up with Clark Reid a week ago today for a few frolics in the middle of the South Island of New Zealand. Firstly I am eternally grateful to him, as the poor bastard was sick as a dog. So sick as to get up at 3am the night before, drive about 50 miles to hospitalize himself, only to be too tired to make the hospital, sleep in the truck and he still made our date at 8:30am. I felt guilty all day until I gave him a drop o’ old Jameson’s and he felt better. So did I, when he reciprocated with a delicious sour mash of his choosing. We were in the Mt Cook vicinity (http://www.rockypond.com/mtcook.jpg), an area that has a look not unlike that of Three Rivers in Montana (wide, arid, surrounded by mountains, http://www.rockypond.com/scenery.jpg). The nearby Lake Tekapo, where we stayed, is spectacular with a deep azure color from the nearby glaciers (picture includes shot of your friend and humble narrator, http://www.rockypond.com/tekapo.jpg). The first stream (http://www.rockypond.com/firstriver.jpg) we visited was about 15 feet in width, slightly off color and cold. I admit that it did not look like much. Clark assured me it held big fish. Clark explained that Kiwi fishing is different from US or UK fishing in that there are fewer fish that are much larger. This was certainly bourn out this day. Being early season there was not much of any dry fly activity, which was slightly disappointing, so we nymphed all day. I pounded water for about an hour and eventually hooked up near a wooden bridge. At first I didn’t think it a large fish as he came towards me, but when he made a run upstream, I was in no doubt. Upstream was an old wooden bridge and as I applied pressure I will never forget the wave the fish created in the river as it turned. The fish was a brown about 26 inches in size, maybe 8lbs or so. It fought for 10 mins and we eventually tagged him at an undercut. After that we moved to a different river over the nearby Burke’s Pass. We stopped to review a fish that Clark had scouted the day before that was in a tough, nearly impossible position. Sitting in front of a bridge leg, with a brush accumulation behind him, in the current that itself broke both ways around the bridge was a good 10lb brown. He was spooked immediately, but twenty mins later after we had eaten lunch and got ready he was back. This time, from the river level, I was fairly sure with Clark’s help I could get something on his nose. There was a rocky braid in the river shy of the lie and I hunched down using it as cover. When I reached the braid I lay down flat and peaked up to get the bearing; Clark called the casts though. Too short, lifted too soon, etc. My fear was to let the fly go too long and catch the brush pile. I managed two good drifts to the fish which he ignored and then Clark chose the strategy that since the current was breaking, making dead drift impossible, a swimming nymph would work. Clark told me the nymph was akin to the Isonychia, which I have had great success with in the US. I cannot remember but I believe it was the first or second cast that he yelled "Strike!" To my surprise he was hooked (the fish, not Clark). What ensued was almost complete anarchy and what happened next transpired over a few minutes. I stood up and the fish took off upstream. Above the pool were some step-like rapids and white water, which the fish barreled through even though I had full power on the loaded rod. Impressive indeed. I managed to turn him and he came down the pool to the (those who are following this could guess this next bit) brush pile at the bridge. Once he was there I thought it was game over. I pulled and could feel nothing only dead weight. As I was upstream I knew I was applying pressure in the wrong direction (either that, or I was trying to pull a brush pile and bridge in my direction).  I had to get a more acute angle. Without thinking I jumped into the white water and crossed this extremely fast current. I never would have done this without the adrenalin rush I was now experiencing and as I had to wade downstream I think this was the only thing that saved me from a dunking. By now both Clark and I had fallen a few times due to the step sides of the loose moraine in the rivers. When I got across and was almost 180 degrees from him I was pleased to see the fish was still on and I had successfully moved him from the brush pile into the deep blue pool. This was a good sighting point and how beautiful he was: a big olive head and a body that was 30 inches at least. He came to my feet and I contemplated beaching him, until I fell once again and this time painfully. He was spooked and off downstream, where, to Clark’s credit he was waiting for the fish in the shallow waters. At this point we released him a little too fast for a photograph, but that did not matter to me. It was a good stalk and a good team effort for a righteous fish. We could only laugh and shake our heads at the marvel of that emotional deluge we call fly-fishing. I had the greatest feeling though I was in   pain from the falls. I will add at this point it was becoming clear to me that another characteristic of Kiwi fishing is that the river size coupled with large fish size definitely put the odds in favor of the fish. I personally could learn a lot more about playing a large fish by fishing more down there. By now, it was mid afternoon and I had had two fish. Like I mentioned earlier, this is pretty typical. I managed another fish a few minutes later upstream, about 3lbs   (http://www.rockypond.com/fish3.jpg). We worked another hour and then decided to move on. As we were on either side of a pass in these past two fish it was apparent that the weather here is strange. At the last river the sky became cloudy and snow was visible at higher elevations, but as we returned across Burke’s Pass again the sky cleared. We fished a fast deep stream in the hot sunshine (name escapes me now, but here’s pic, http://www.rockypond.com/stream3.jpg). Spent nearly two hours here with no luck though we covered a lot of water. The afternoon was getting late and we decided to hit a creek called Mary Burn (a lot of Scots settled NZ). This river was barely a trickle (http://www.rockypond.com/maryburn.jpg). Tannin stained almost like the Scottish or Irish streams are, but barely 5 feet wide. No way was I going to believe that there were anything but fingerlings in there. I hiked off a bit and came to an electrical cattle fence. As I walked up the soft bank I spooked a 22inch brown, which scared the living shit out of me. He nearly beached himself trying to get away. I cannot imagine how this tiny stream grew such enormous fish. In any case this was to be the closest encounter I would have to one of Mary Burn’s progeny. A wind had whipped up and was blowing about 25 knots. As you can imagine trying to hit a less than 1-foot target area in a 5-foot stream with this kind of wind required skills I have yet not acquired, nor maybe never will. Also the temperature was dropping and this wind bit cold. We decided to head off for somewhere sheltered. Sadly the weather did not get better and it was 39F (down about 30 degrees from 2 hours earlier) due to a cold front that had moved in. We decided to call it a day around 7pm I think. It was almost 12 hours fishing and it was the most enjoyable kind. Good fish, good water, good spirits and good conversations. And, yes, Clark Reid is a great guide and good company. Anyway I do thank him again for a great time. He may be able to explain better than I to ROFF as to why the streams are as they are. I think it is to do with a low pH, no environmental issues (NZ has NO fossil fuel or nuclear power plants – all Hydro). That evening, myself and my new wife drove outside of town in the clear, still sky of the new cold front we took in Crux, the Southern Cross (a lifelong dream) and the Clouds of Magellan; not to mentions the upside down Northern Constellations. For the rest of my travels I stopped at many, many streams and every one had big fish (sunglasses over lens to polarize, http://www.rockypond.com/feeder.jpg), even by the Angler’s Access parking areas. One stream looked like someone had surgically lifted the River Avon in Wiltshire and dropped it in the valley of the Eglinton River. I watched a fish work every few seconds and he was mine (strictly up-and-across, mind), but I was sans rod and reel and could only dream. Another series of small lakes held a good dozen two foot long trout that sipped away oblivious to the visitors and gave me a good treatise on the Brownian feeding manner of the still water trout. Sorry for the long report. Hope you enjoyed it. Visit NZ some time. The accommodation and car rental is reasonable. The steak and cheese pies and Sleights Old Dark are worth the trip in itself. Come on, don the DVT socks and do it. It’s only 12 hours from LA. Thanks for reading. Gary — Gary (Email address is munged with x’s)

Response:

Question:

I am a commercial  bush pilot living in Canada, I fly floats in the summer and wheel/skis in the winter.  I  do all of my fueling, cleaning, loading, basically im a one man show.   I love the float season, i love flying into little lakes, beaching on a island, dumping my passengers off and then swimming or fishing for a while if I have time before my next flight.   My problem is this;  I know that if I want to make any money I will probibaly have to move into the multi ifr stuff in the next couple of years before i get too old (im 26).  And the problem with that is I have done the ifr ground school twice (3-day cram fest in Vancouver for $200) and have not completed it either time.  I am bored shitless and cant concentrate!  I just cant get into it and I’m not sure why?  For you comm pilots out there flying ifr all the time; does it suck?  are you bored most of the time?  I go up to the cockpit on air canada A320 sometimes and visit the pilots and they dont seem to have much to do….or see. Any float drivers turned ifr drivers out there who can give me some encouragement?   Are there any fun ifr jobs where i dont have to dawn a shirt with those prissy gold bars?  Am I doomed to choose between a job I hate for the money or a job I love and poverty? Help, jon

Response:

 …And the problem with that is I have done the ifr ground school twice (3-day cram fest in Vancouver for $200) and have not completed it either time.  I am bored shitless and cant concentrate!  I just cant get into it and I’m not sure why?

Skip the book stuff for now and try IFR flight training for a while-that’s where the challenge is. If it still bores you, go back to what you love. If you make good money doing something you hate, how well off are you, really? Dan N9387D at BFM

Response:

John.  I have a private homebuilt floatplane and suffer with a similar malady. In my case it’s eliminating one rat from the urban rat race and going north to make a meagre living by flying.  I encountered the following, which while not right for me, might help you out.  About a year ago, the ontario government was looking for conservation officers to fly small aircraft in northern ontario enforcing hunting and fishing regs, and doing all those other things that conservation officers are supposed to do.  Might be worth checking out.  IIRC, they were flying Maules. Mike – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am a commercial  bush pilot living in Canada, I fly floats in the summer and wheel/skis in the winter.  I  do all of my fueling, cleaning, loading, basically im a one man show.   I love the float season, i love flying into little lakes, beaching on a island, dumping my passengers off and then swimming or fishing for a while if I have time before my next flight.   My problem is this;  I know that if I want to make any money I will probibaly have to move into the multi ifr stuff in the next couple of years before i get too old (im 26).  And the problem with that is I have done the ifr ground school twice (3-day cram fest in Vancouver for $200) and have not completed it either time.  I am bored shitless and cant concentrate!  I just cant get into it and I’m not sure why?  For you comm pilots out there flying ifr all the time; does it suck?  are you bored most of the time?  I go up to the cockpit on air canada A320 sometimes and visit the pilots and they dont seem to have much to do….or see. Any float drivers turned ifr drivers out there who can give me some encouragement?   Are there any fun ifr jobs where i dont have to dawn a shirt with those prissy gold bars?  Am I doomed to choose between a job I hate for the money or a job I love and poverty? Help, jon

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OK I’ll bite, even though floats are still on my "someday" list… I love it all.  I fly all-weather all-night air ambulance operations (IFR, of course), freight, and passengers.  That’s fun.  So is taking my Taylorcraft and hand-propping it, stopping at grass strips, and paying cash for gas (usually whatever cash made it through the laundry in my jeans pocket covers my fuel bill). I also really enjoy giving passengers a super-smooth ride in challenging weather (or at least trying).  I did a life flight the other day with a very ill little girl and her mother and really felt like I was helping them by making the flight as comfortable as possible, even though the destination was barely above minimums.   And, I think I fly each operation better from the experience in the other.  They taylorcraft makes me acutely aware of aircraft limitations (no lights, no radios) and the twins make me aware of the aircraft’s possibilities.  I like both! You’ll need to pursue your IR in order to get full satisfaction.  I know the Canadian system is different from ours but put your head down and get your exams done, then enjoy the flying! Jim Wolper ATP/PhD/CFII

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For you comm pilots out there flying ifr all the time; does it suck? are you bored most of the time?  I go up to the cockpit on air canada A320 sometimes and visit the pilots and they dont seem to have much to do….or see.

No, I’m not bored.  Terror tends to concentrate the mind.  :-)   Not much to see, except the instruments, but you have to watch them VERY closely.  Just because there isn’t much movement doesn’t mean nothing is happening.  Try some flying under the hood & see if you don’t enjoy it.   Admittedly, the ground school isn’t that exciting, but I do enjoy the flying.  If you don’t enjoy precision flying, it won’t be as much fun, but I enjoy the challenge.  A night ILS to minimums makes it seem better.

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Question:

Some stamps came out a while ago featuring flies. Anyone know where I cn get them? Ari

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Some stamps came out a while ago featuring flies. Anyone know where I cn get them?

Um……U.S Post Office?

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I have a first day issue of these stamps.  They were released on May 31, 1991 by the US post office. If you live in the US, look in your local phone book for a stamp collector store.  They will probably have it.  I first day issue will probably cost about $10, a strip about $5.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Some stamps came out a while ago featuring flies. Anyone know where I cn get them? Ari

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Some stamps came out a while ago featuring flies. Anyone know where I can get them?

I don’t know if they are still available in the Post Office or not — occasionally I see someone offer a booklet of them on eBay at auction. Fleetwood is still selling First Day Covers and Postcards so you can get a description of the stamps by going to their web site and searching for "fishing flies" http://www.unicover.com/unisearch.htm? At the time of issue the Post Office also put out a framed print of a fly fisherman with all five stamps included.  I have one around here somewhere but couldn’t find it to provide a better description. I’m not a stamp collector myself but am trying to round up copies of all the first day stuff for the Largemouth Bass stamp. Have a great weekend, — Clyde Drury Black Bass Book Collector http://members.aol.com/BassBks/index.html

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Question:

The space station is a gigantic waste of funds that would be better used for real space research, instead of a feel-good NASA publicity stunt.

RW has nailed this one. When you see the space station, think "Apple computer commercials." All warm fuzzies, no substance. –Steve (heh heh heh)

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What would be an appropriate tip?

after John Lindsey wroe: He paid $20 mil for one week.

Well, 10 to 20%, of course!! Didn’t we determine that here before for guide’s tip??!! — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana http://www.montana.com/dno 406-626-4022

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Russians just took Tito to Space Station. He paid $20 mil for one week. Guides eat your heart out! <g John

Yes, and all that for not even one fish. TL MC

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Russians just took Tito to Space Station. He paid $20 mil for one week. Guides eat your heart out! <g Yea, but can he fly fish?? If he can afford $20M a week, who cares? (How long do you need to stay in space to become a ‘local’?) <g — Charlie…

And where are the whorehouses? TL MC

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What’s worse is that we are subsidizing his trip.  We, as Americans, are footing most of Russia’s space program presently!  We would be building the space station whether or  not Russia was involved.  Giving extra credit almost  never hurts in the long run.  I think that it’s great that  the space station involves as many countries as it  does.

The space station is a gigantic waste of funds that would be better used for real space research, instead of a feel-good NASA publicity stunt. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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 … and on top of that, he spent 6 mos. training,  so he would know what he is doing.

And then he still gets sick… so much space?! <g (wish I could go, flyfishing or no flyfishing) Marius Jonker Transkei Piscatorial Society http://home.intekom.com/TPS

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What’s worse is that we are subsidizing his trip.  We, as Americans, are footing most of Russia’s space program presently! Op

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sorry guys, but to my mind this is a criminal waste of money. It is helping a crippled regime waste further money on what, for them, is a lost cause. I know it is up to him, it is his, but there are so many good causes that would benefit from an input like that. Please tell me I’m wrong, the guy has given millions already to good causes. Chris

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Sorry guys, but to my mind this is a criminal waste of money. It is helping a crippled regime waste further money on what, for them, is a lost cause. I know it is up to him, it is his, but there are so many good causes that would benefit from an input like that. Please tell me I’m wrong, the guy has given millions already to good causes. Chris

lots of things are a "so-called" waste of money.  heck, i could sell all my rods, boats, etc… and feed a hell of a lot of poor people.  the guy has the money and in my mind can spend it however he wants… and if he wants to go to space instead of feeding starving kids… that’s his right, and more power to him. before we get too self-righteous about "wastes of money"… we better think about the reason we all gather on this little corner of cyberspace… because i’m sure plenty of people would say the money we spend fishing is a waste and could be better spent…. and i think those people are as dumb as fence-posts <G chris

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Russians just took Tito to Space Station. He paid $20 mil for one week. Guides eat your heart out! <g

I’d bet that just like earthbound guides, the overhead and expenses will eat that $20 mil in short order.   The guide is supplying all the equipment, Tito isn’t going to pay for anything he breaks or loses, and I bet he ain’t gonna tip much either. Joe F.

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Sorry guys, but to my mind this is a criminal waste of money. It is helping a crippled regime waste further money on what, for them, is a lost cause.  I know it is up to him, it is his, but there are so many good causes that would benefit from an input like that. Please tell me I’m wrong, the guy has given millions already to good causes. Chris

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<< Russians just took Tito to Space Station. He paid $20 mil for one week. Guides eat your heart out! <g John What would be an appropriate tip?

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Russians just took Tito to Space Station. He paid $20 mil for one week. Guides eat your heart out! <g John

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Russians just took Tito to Space Station. He paid $20 mil for one week. Guides eat your heart out! <g

Yea, but can he fly fish?? — Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters Missoula, Montana http://www.montana.com/dno 406-626-4022

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Russians just took Tito to Space Station. He paid $20 mil for one week. Guides eat your heart out! <g Yea, but can he fly fish??

If he can afford $20M a week, who cares? (How long do you need to stay in space to become a ‘local’?) <g — Charlie…

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Here’s another one for yez. Gettin’ itchy and fishing season’s only a couple of weeks gone. Anyways, building much awaited 8 weight and got to wondering what everyone else uses for guides. On my 10 weight I built fighting many stripers they did have a tendency to bend from their original shape, so I’ve decided on snakes. My 11 weight has the following setup; 20,16,12,4,4,4,4,3,3,3. I’ve never actually used <size 3. I think the 20 stripper is overkill for an 8 weight, so I’m thinking along the a light rod. And does it make sense to taper to a 2 and use a large loop tip, which looks more like a 3 or so ? What do you guys use ? Thanks,                                                 jc

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John, Having built over 400 flyrods, and having played with guide sizes, spacing and types for years now, I won’t tell you which type of guide to use, as I believe that is a personal choice, but I think you have the right idea in starting with a #16 stripper and going no smaller than a 3. I would also recommend the large loop tip top. Just my two cents! Tom Dougherty – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here’s another one for yez. Gettin’ itchy and fishing season’s only a couple of weeks gone. Anyways, building much awaited 8 weight and got to wondering what everyone else uses for guides. On my 10 weight I built after fighting many stripers they did have a tendency to bend from their original shape, so I’ve decided on snakes. My 11 weight has the following setup; 20,16,12,4,4,4,4,3,3,3. I’ve never actually used <size 3. I think the 20 stripper is overkill for an 8 weight, so I’m thinking along the a light rod. And does it make sense to taper to a 2 and use a large loop tip, which looks more like a 3 or so ? What do you guys use ? Thanks,                                            jc

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Here’s another one for yez. Gettin’ itchy and fishing season’s only a couple of weeks gone. Anyways, building much awaited 8 weight and got to wondering what everyone else uses for guides. On my 10 weight I built fighting many stripers they did have a tendency to bend from their original shape, so I’ve decided on snakes. My 11 weight has the following setup; 20,16,12,4,4,4,4,3,3,3. I’ve never actually used <size 3. I think the 20 stripper is overkill for an 8 weight, so I’m thinking along the a light rod. And does it make sense to taper to a 2 and use a large loop tip, which looks more like a 3 or so ? What do you guys use ? Thanks,

Hi John About ten years ago I switched to Sic single foots on my fly rods because I would wear grooves in the single foot guides in a very short time.  I could straighten out the single foots much quicker than I could replace the snake guides.  Just a thought.                                       — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (97 catalog) http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

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Here’s another one for yez. Gettin’ itchy and fishing season’s only a couple of weeks gone. Anyways, building much awaited 8 weight and got to wondering what everyone else uses for guides. On my 10 weight I built

<snip About ten years ago I switched to Sic single foots on my fly rods because I would wear grooves in the single foot guides in a very short time.  I could straighten out the single foots much quicker than I could replace the snake guides.  Just a thought.                                      

What is Sic?  And how does straightening the guide remove the wear spot. Carl carl

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here’s another one for yez. Gettin’ itchy and fishing season’s only a couple of weeks gone. Anyways, building much awaited 8 weight and got to wondering what everyone else uses for guides. On my 10 weight I built <snip About ten years ago I switched to Sic single foots on my fly rods because I would wear grooves in the single foot guides in a very short time.  I could straighten out the single foots much quicker than I could replace the snake guides.  Just a thought.                                       What is Sic?  And how does straightening the guide remove the wear spot. Carl carl

SICs are single foot guides with a ring of (I think) silicone carbide in them. Much tougher than the predecessor, Hardloy. The ultimate is the new Fuji Cermet, which is a titanium frame (not TN) with a gold Titanium nitride ring. Groove proof, corrosion proof, much lighter and only about $15 each ($35 for a stripper!). For the record I just unpacked some stuff (we’re in the process of moving) and found a box holding 7 SICs #8. Can’t just toss them at $5 each, so I guess this is what I put on the new 8 weight after all.                                                         jc

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Question:

I have not fished the Beaverkill since about 1993. I was a regular before that time and was wondering what the current state of the river is. The fly shops told me how great the fishing was after I found out of a drought induced fish kill that supposedly wiped out 80% of the fish. So much for their opinion.  What I have heard hasn’t been good but I would like to hear from anyone with first hand info.

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I have not fished the Beaverkill since about 1993. I was a regular before that time and was wondering what the current state of the river is. The fly shops told me how great the fishing was after I found out of a drought induced fish kill that supposedly wiped out 80% of the fish. So much for their opinion.  What I have heard hasn’t been good but I would like to hear from anyone with first hand info.

I fished the Beaverkill in late spring last year around Arlington. Fished for about 4 hrs. Caught 2 small Browns. Was my first  and probably my last experience with the Beaverkill. The fishing was very slow! I fish mostly in the White watershed and certainly the action is better here. My $0.02. Tony

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This year the Beaverkill is finally looking up, although we did have good success on the the Lower Beaverkill almost every time we went out last year.  But this year, the trout even look bigger, and with no anchor-ice or flooding having damaged our chances, we know it will be a fine season. M&M – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have not fished the Beaverkill since about 1993. I was a regular before that time and was wondering what the current state of the river is. The fly shops told me how great the fishing was after I found out of a drought induced fish kill that supposedly wiped out 80% of the fish. So much for their opinion.  What I have heard hasn’t been good but I would like to hear from anyone with first hand info. I fished the Beaverkill in late spring last year around Arlington. Fished for about 4 hrs. Caught 2 small Browns. Was my first  and probably my last experience with the Beaverkill. The fishing was very slow! I fish mostly in the White watershed and certainly the action is better here. My $0.02. Tony

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Howdy, it;s the typical question of ‘do you know how the beaverkill is fishing? I’m thinking of heading there on fri. Thanks for any help.

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Howdy, it;s the typical question of ‘do you know how the beaverkill is fishing? I’m thinking of heading there on fri. Thanks for any help.

Give a call to Dette’s Fly Shop (I forget the number) in Roscoe.  They have a daily recording on stream conditions and hatches. — Stan READ ABOUT A CYBERSTALKER: http://www.geocities.com/~hitchcockc/story.html http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/6006/woodside.html

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Question:

  What is fishing well on the Metolius these days – March 17?? I thought it was closed?? I don’t really know if it is open or closed. It usually fishes well in June and September.

Nope, it’s only closed above Allingham Bridge.  Of course that’s my favorite water, especially in the winter, but I gladly conced because there was too much damage to the banks. -Burton — L. Burton Hawley           2330 NW Hummingbird Corvallis, OR

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   What is fishing well on the Metolius these days – March 17??    Many thanks,    john manotti

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  What is fishing well on the Metolius these days – March 17??   Many thanks,   john manotti

I thought it was closed?? I don’t really know if it is open or closed. It usually fishes well in June and September. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

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Question:

: Oh, and you might wish to reconsider that open invitation for anyone to : join you fishing. I’m over in Denver and it takes very little prompting : for me to drive to your side of the divide. You wouldn’t want to wake up : at 4 a.m. to the sound of some drunken freak in a sombrero banging on : your door, demanding smoked whitefish and homebrew. Especially one over 6 feet tall.

And sometimes that’s not enough. Steve

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You wouldn’t want to wake up at 4 a.m. to the sound of some drunken freak in a sombrero banging on your door, demanding smoked whitefish and homebrew. Steve

Well, yes, he would. Mitch

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join you fishing. I’m over in Denver and it takes very little prompting for me to drive to your side of the divide. You wouldn’t want to wake up at 4 a.m. to the sound of some drunken freak in a sombrero banging on your door, demanding smoked whitefish and homebrew.

Bullshit.  It’s why I keep both my waders and my beer near the back door. TimW

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – T-Bone, When you’re under sustained attack it can be easy to let it get you down eventually. Don’t forget that taking any stand outside of the crowd (herd) makes you a target, particularly for the lowest common denominator of which there are the greatest number. These are also the ones that seldom have anything to add other than a "me too" or to attack someone without any positive input. Thus, you have to just write off the clowns that have nothing more to say other than to let vituperative spittle dribble onto their keyboards. Many of those posts remind me of a Dilbert comic where Dilbert and Wally are having a flamewar via the net between adjacent work cubicles. Dilbert is flexing his finger muscles and says "Come on flameboy, just try me" (quote may not be exact). The point being that the net lets those that are afraid to voice an independent opinion or that consider adding a five letter word to a string of 4-letterers to be intellectual discourse to have input without fear of retaliation. You have to just let it be water off a CDC. The net is the electronic Hyde Park. Everyone has a voice (if you have a computer, the electronic soapbox, of course). Hell, even Powlesland says something interesting every 20 or 30 posts or so (statistics not verified). Those that try to shout down other voices they don’t like should not be given your full consideration. Just ignore them. It’s just white noise in the background. Jon

Sounds like its T-bone affirmation time. T-bone, your good enough, your smart enough, and gosh darnit, (many) people (on this ng) like you.  Hang in there, baby.  Just go eat a few little wild brookies.  Always makes me feel better. Brett INFORMED and ENLIGHTEND C&R

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While I agree with everything you said re: T-Bone, I disagree strongly with your statement that fly fishing is a pastime not a sport. The Webster’s Dictionary has as one definition of sport, "an activity pursued for pleasure involving the hunting, taking or killing of wild animals, game or fish."

That’s a definition that will get us in trouble, eventually.  I think it’s important to differentiate between blood sports (even if it’s C&R) and the games people play for fun.  This "sport" also requires a measure of responsibility toward nature, which other sports do not.  The anti-everything crowd has a hey-day with any activity that even occasionally kills something in the name of sport.  We need another label… — Derek R. Larson           Indiana University       Department of History   "Eastward I go by force, but Westward I go free!"  -H. D. Thoreau

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T-Bone, A. If I am ever in CO you can count on me to ruin your health for several days. We will     probably do some fishing also. B. I can remember several of your posts including saving your dog, topless float trips, promising     to post GIFs of you and your buds removing living whitefish heads with your teeth and the ever     popular C&R vs C&K without resorting to any ’save’ files. C. I may not always agree with your opions but I will defend your right etc etc D. Always remember what I think when someone treats me as you have been treated; "Some people     are above me and some BLOW ME !". E. I live by the following creed when dealing with these people; "Life is a question of mind and     matter, I don’t mind and they don’t matter". The only editor a man needs is honesty. As you were, carry on. — "The true Angler is content to fish alone" Brian Di Carlo

Response:

Hello thoughtful readers,

Well, here’s your first mistake Tim. You’re assuming that anyone with access to a keyboard can pound out something intelligent… I put a lot of work and thought into the articles that I post here. <snip

Yes you have, and I for one appreciate it. As often as not, I’ve disagreed with you, but I’ve been a lot more pissed off at the people who would attack you rather join in a civilized discussion of what you’ve said. This _is_ a discussion group is it not? <snip   I love a good laugh and poke good natured fun at our sport and current attitudes.  I try to ad variety and spice to what I feel would be a pretty droll ng sometimes

To all you bitchers an’ moaners out there- who would you have to bitch an’ moan about if were not for the inimitable Mr. T-Bone? I’ll tell ya- you’d be bitchin’ an’ moanin’ at the same Sage vs. Loomis vs. Orvis vs. whatever. And you wouldn’t be doin’ it nearly so well. As I’ve said, there’s plenty I’ve disagreed with in Tim’s posts, but I don’t see anyone around here posting funnier more thought provoking stuff. This would be one sorry ass place to hang out without him.    I have an open invitation to anyone who posts here to come to western colorado and fish with me. Next time I make a wrong turn on the Long Island Distressway you can expect me to come pounding on your door. We’ll go out an’ laugh at the fish as they go by… In short, I love the sport as I love life itself.

I believe you do, and that’s why you belong in this ng. But goddamn it stop calling this a sport. It ain’t. It’s a pastime. A sport implies competition and that it ain’t (IMNSHFO) Yet lately, for some reason, my name has appeared as the subject, my email is full of hate mail and one poster even said that they were ’so sick of me’.  This last post about wishing I would stop posting altogether has broken my resolve and hurt my feelings somewhat.

Hey Tim, DON’T LET THE BASTARDS GETCHA DOWN!   These posts are almost exclusively posts from those that have never, ever posted or expressed an idea or thoughtful answer to the ng. And never will… I don’t want any damned lectures about what to post and not to post, or how and what to say.  I ask only for fairness and objectivity in response to my posts, which I always honor for all others. Is that too much to ask ? Nope. <snip At the moment, though, I am not feeling very generous towards this ng, roff, particularly these lurkers that offer nothing but complaints about me.

Screw ‘em… — Phil Koenig Manhattan Custom Tackle Ltd. http://fishdoc.com. "I’m the boss, so WHATEVER I say is OK."

Response:

Hang tough Tim. As the proverb says: "A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country." (Matthew 13:57) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello thoughtful readers, I put a lot of work and thought into the articles that I post here.  I have one pet peeve, that of the insanity of pure C&R on a wild population of fish.  This is an attitude that I feel is gaining momentum and has about a 50% or better following amongst fishermen, based on my casual observations. Generally (Powlesland excepted) I never, ever attack individuals and I challenge anyone to finding an ad hominum post made by me in all the years of alt.fishing and roff.  I love a good laugh and poke good natured fun at our sport and current attitudes.  I try to ad variety and spice to what I feel would be a pretty droll ng sometimes.  I offer patterns and help and have spent hours offline helping flyfishermen of all walks. I have made a lot of friends out of would be enemies by conversing offline, exchanging flies and even meeting face to face for some fishing together.   I have an open invitation to anyone who posts here to come to western colorado and fish with me. In short, I love the sport as I love life itself. Yet lately, for some reason, my name has appeared as the subject, my email is full of hate mail and one poster even said that they were ’so sick of me’.  This last post about wishing I would stop posting altogether has broken my resolve and hurt my feelings somewhat.  These posts are almost exclusively posts from those that have never, ever posted or expressed an idea or thoughtful answer to the ng. I don’t want any damned lectures about what to post and not to post, or how and what to say.  I ask only for fairness and objectivity in response to my posts, which I always honor for all others. Is that too much to ask ? TimW BTW – I am about to embark on several photographic journies in the new binaries group… 1) Tying sequences for Western Flies 2) real pictures of scarred old warriors from real C&R areas.  I think this a very worthwhile endeavor. At the moment, though, I am not feeling very generous towards this ng, roff, particularly these lurkers that offer nothing but complaints about me.

Response:

 While I agree with everything you said re: T-Bone, I disagree strongly with your statement that fly fishing is a pastime not a sport. The Webster’s Dictionary has as one definition of sport, "an activity pursued for pleasure involving the hunting, taking or killing of wild animals, game or fish." Paul Marriner

Response:

Tim, Way back before it became the rage, I too submitted a post that exposed some true idiocy in this ng. It was about IMHO how anything would be better than a FEDERAL Government being the overseer of wildlife and natual resources. I got the same hate mail, posts and name calling that you have received, only not to the extent you have been forced to endure. After my post, I saw several late (a few weeks later) replies to my original post become a thread that carried through to the election. I think your thread on C&R is having the same effect. There are positives and negatives to all issues, but we tend to forget the positive results. I hope such actions by irresponsible idiots do NOT shut you up. I have said it before and I say it again now: I may not agree with everything you say but I will read yur posts first and will defend to the death your right to post! The idiots? Ahhh… fuck em!

Response:

 While I agree with everything you said re: T-Bone, I disagree strongly with your statement that fly fishing is a pastime not a sport. The Webster’s Dictionary has as one definition of sport, "an activity pursued for pleasure involving the hunting, taking or killing of wild animals, game or fish." Paul Marriner

OK Paul- You and Tim and Webster’s can call it any damn thing you want, I’ll call it fishing. You don’t think I could say all that stuff about Tim without a little jab somewhere;-) ?? Anyway, it’s whatever YOU wanna make it-that’s the ONLY thing that’s important. Best Regards, Phil Koenig Manhattan Custom Tackle Ltd. http://fishdoc.com. "I’m the boss, so WHATEVER I say is OK."

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello thoughtful readers, I put a lot of work and thought into the articles that I post here.  I have one pet peeve, that of the insanity of pure C&R on a wild population of fish.  This is an attitude that I feel is gaining momentum and has about a 50% or better following amongst fishermen, based on my casual observations. Generally (Powlesland excepted) I never, ever attack individuals and I challenge anyone to finding an ad hominum post made by me in all the years of alt.fishing and roff.  I love a good laugh and poke good natured fun at our sport and current attitudes.  I try to ad variety and spice to what I feel would be a pretty droll ng sometimes.  I offer patterns and help and have spent hours offline helping flyfishermen of all walks. I have made a lot of friends out of would be enemies by conversing offline, exchanging flies and even meeting face to face for some fishing together.   I have an open invitation to anyone who posts here to come to western colorado and fish with me. In short, I love the sport as I love life itself. Yet lately, for some reason, my name has appeared as the subject, my email is full of hate mail and one poster even said that they were ’so sick of me’.  This last post about wishing I would stop posting altogether has broken my resolve and hurt my feelings somewhat.  These posts are almost exclusively posts from those that have never, ever posted or expressed an idea or thoughtful answer to the ng. I don’t want any damned lectures about what to post and not to post, or how and what to say.  I ask only for fairness and objectivity in response to my posts, which I always honor for all others. Is that too much to ask ? TimW

Look, Tim, for what it’s worth… Sometimes your opinions make me laugh, sometimes they piss me off. The same could be said of the opinions of my wife, my mother, my brother, George Gehrke and that kid down at the 7-11 with the pierced nose. Post whatever the hell you want, but don’t stop posting. This newsgroup would be a very boring place without your insights and opinions, regardless of who likes them and who doesn’t. Oh, and you might wish to reconsider that open invitation for anyone to join you fishing. I’m over in Denver and it takes very little prompting for me to drive to your side of the divide. You wouldn’t want to wake up at 4 a.m. to the sound of some drunken freak in a sombrero banging on your door, demanding smoked whitefish and homebrew. Steve

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Tim, Don’t let a bunch of wannabes get you down. Without you in the NG, this place would be empty and drool. I like the fire and brimstone that’s shoot back and forth about the various topics here. We all don’t resemble the Marlboro Man in neat tidy packages. So, who the fuck should care. Some folks (yes, old ones) just don’t like the water muddied upstream from where they’re standing. They can’t see that the water is changing and they’re even standing in it. They’re the type of people that have all the comments at the wrong time. They don’t want to listen and learn. A good example that want to share happened to me before I became of age years ago. I was the only one working a hole and had been there for several hours. I worked it from all directions and changed my strategy each time and was starting to show some action but not hooking anything. I finally hooked a stealhead (half-pounder) but he shook off right as my thumb touched the lower jaw. I went right back to my stance and now had an audience of wannabes. On my very next cast I hooked a good five pounder and somehow knew my day was over. Here I was trying to land a fish on poor tired equipment, drowning out the questions from the fishermen on the bank. What you using? How deep you? What’s your angle of drift? And so on, and made only one comment to the guys that that the fish where in close and right on the bottom. Somehow they didn’t hear a word I said or thought I didn’t know what I was talking about. When I had that fresh pink and silver up on the beach I looked behind and smiled as these two guys twice my age mucked up the hole. In short order instead listening to what I said, they proceed to go deep and spooked all chances getting a fish for the rest of the day. People only listen to what they want to hear, and then only act on a portion of that. This is a wonderful county we live in. We have the freedom to move about, disagree with the government and speak our minds without going to jail. Tim, feel free to speak what’s on your mind, as we all need a little education to grow with. Oh, by the way, the only true sports are mountain climbing, auto racing, and bull fighting, everything else are games or pastimes. Doug Knight

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: Oh, and you might wish to reconsider that open invitation for anyone to : join you fishing. I’m over in Denver and it takes very little prompting : for me to drive to your side of the divide. You wouldn’t want to wake up : at 4 a.m. to the sound of some drunken freak in a sombrero banging on : your door, demanding smoked whitefish and homebrew. Especially one over 6 feet tall. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

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Hello thoughtful readers, I put a lot of work and thought into the articles that I post here.  I have one pet peeve, that of the insanity of pure C&R on a wild population of fish.  This is an attitude that I feel is gaining momentum and has about a 50% or better following amongst fishermen, based on my casual observations.   Generally (Powlesland excepted) I never, ever attack individuals and I challenge anyone to finding an ad hominum post made by me in all the years of alt.fishing and roff.  I love a good laugh and poke good natured fun at our sport and current attitudes.

I too love a good laugh, Tim, and you and I have shared many enjoyable moments both in ng’s and private e-mail.  Nevertheless, I think your assessment of your newsgroup communications is a little too generous.  I would not have brought this up on my own, but since you have raised the issue I will say that I have felt at times that you have made use of ad hominum arguments.  Since 1993, in various ng’s, I have said that mandated C&R is a management tool which works well for some sport fisheries on wild populations.  Mixtures of mandated C&R and allowed C&K work well in other fisheries.  And very liberal C&K works well in some fisheries, too.  But there have been times when, in response, you have painted me as being a total C&R enthusiast, without exception.  And when I have offered C&R data from published, refereed studies, and observations made on specific fisheries which thrive under partial or total C&R management, your responses have not always been gracious.  For example, I recall one article into which I also "put a lot of work and thought," only to have you dismiss it by saying "nothing new here, so no response."  My feeling, quite frankly, was that you simply had nothing to offer in response to my well-documented presentation. In my opinion, newsgroups have not turned out to be particularly good public forums for reasoned discussion.  They lend themselves all too well to shouting matches.  You do add "variety and spice," but there are other good things which you could also add to r.o.f.f.  However, since you don’t want any "damned lectures"…. I ask only for fairness and objectivity in response to my posts, which I always honor for all others. BTW – I am about to embark on several photographic journies in the new binaries group… 2) real pictures of scarred old warriors from real C&R areas.  I think this a very worthwhile endeavor.

In fairness and objectivity, you could also post pictures of…. oh, yeah, no lectures….   Woods Hole, MA   USA

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..some valid observations snipped… Yet lately, for some reason, my name has appeared as the subject, my email is full of hate mail and one poster even said that they were ’so sick of me’.  This last post about wishing I would stop posting altogether has broken my resolve and hurt my feelings somewhat.  These posts are almost exclusively posts from those that have never, ever posted or expressed an idea or thoughtful answer to the ng.

… more snipped for brevity… T-Bone, When you’re under sustained attack it can be easy to let it get you down eventually. Don’t forget that taking any stand outside of the crowd (herd) makes you a target, particularly for the lowest common denominator of which there are the greatest number. These are also the ones that seldom have anything to add other than a "me too" or to attack someone without any positive input. Thus, you have to just write off the clowns that have nothing more to say other than to let vituperative spittle dribble onto their keyboards. Many of those posts remind me of a Dilbert comic where Dilbert and Wally are having a flamewar via the net between adjacent work cubicles. Dilbert is flexing his finger muscles and says "Come on flameboy, just try me" (quote may not be exact). The point being that the net lets those that are afraid to voice an independent opinion or that consider adding a five letter word to a string of 4-letterers to be intellectual discourse to have input without fear of retaliation. You have to just let it be water off a CDC. The net is the electronic Hyde Park. Everyone has a voice (if you have a computer, the electronic soapbox, of course). Hell, even Powlesland says something interesting every 20 or 30 posts or so (statistics not verified). Those that try to shout down other voices they don’t like should not be given your full consideration. Just ignore them. It’s just white noise in the background. Jon

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(lotsa stuff deleted)

I follow the posts to roff pretty carefully and Tim’s have interested me because of the informal moderator’s role he often assumes. I for one am impressed by his generosity of spirit, civility, humor, general decency and sanity. For whatever little its worth, I think there are many sane and thoughtful roff readers who feel pretty much the same way, our various C&R differences not withstanding. And I’ll bet you that a straw poll of roff readers, were that possible, would confirm that. This ain’t exactly a private club, Tim. It has more similarity to a group of people who mostly share a common interest, discussing it on a street corner. Anyone can drift in, and some real dusies do just that. You’ve got a lot of friends and well-wishers on roff, T-Bone. Don’t let noise and rudeness from silly people get to you. You’re the spice in the food around here. From Philjack’s response: At the moment, though, I am not feeling very generous towards this ng, roff, particularly these lurkers that offer nothing but complaints about me. Screw ‘em…

My advise exactly, Tim. Screw ‘em like a big dog. Tight lines and, respective to forks, light tines – Lon Lon Hall Applied Intelligence Group, Inc. Fly Fisher and Cooking Enthusiast "Eat the rich. The poor are tough and stringy."

Response:

Hello thoughtful readers, I put a lot of work and thought into the articles that I post here.  I have one pet peeve, that of the insanity of pure C&R on a wild population of fish.  This is an attitude that I feel is gaining momentum and has about a 50% or better following amongst fishermen, based on my casual observations.

etc….. Tim, I have been lurking in this newsgroup for about two years.  I find your posts both interesting and informative.  I know it is difficult to have people flaming you, but you just need to keep doing what you think is right.  When people give me a hard time, I remember this quote: To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, be nothing.         Elbert Hubbard It helps me, I hope it helps you. Keep up the good work! Trent

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In my opinion, newsgroups have not turned out to be particularly good public forums for reasoned discussion.

I agree. I used to think the problem was the medium. That is, a person read a post, formed an opinion, and typed it, pressing Send before thinking, carefully, about each word, every idea, and their implications. Usenet anonymity, no accountability, little if any responsibility. More recently, I’ve begun to think the problem is not the medium, but the people who use it (perhaps our culture as a whole). Yes, it makes me shudder, for I see them in myself. What does this have to do with fly fishing??? Everything… or nothing at all. Mitch Red-Neck at Large

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there have been times when, in response, you have painted me as being a total C&R enthusiast, without exception.  And when I have offered C&R data from published, refereed studies, and observations made on specific fisheries which thrive under partial or total C&R management, your responses have not always been gracious.  For example, I recall one article into which I also "put a lot of work and thought," only to have you dismiss

In the spirit of debate ?  Isn’t that the difference ? If we, in an electronic discussion, or sitting in a bar and I said: "Bob, you ignorant slut…the little wahoooocheee doesn’t need TU meddling…" and you said: "Tim, you complete boob, research by Dr. Chumnfertrout states…" Is this not different then a post which reads: "Bob Golder is a Jerk, I wish he would take his fucking opinions about TU over to alt.dickheads" I contend that I am the object of the latter and I will not deny that I participate in the former. TimW

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If we, in an electronic discussion, or sitting in a bar and I said: "Bob, you ignorant slut…the little wahoooocheee doesn’t need TU meddling…" Is this not different then a post which reads: "Bob Golder is a Jerk, I wish he would take his fucking opinions about TU over to alt.dickheads"

Oh yes, I’d _much_ rather be called an ignorant slut than a jerk!   I _think_ you are saying that in the first example, you’re talking WITH me, but in the second example you’re talking AT me or even ABOUT me. Communication is possible in the first example, but more difficult and perhaps impossible in the second example. Whether in a bar or at a computer terminal, the next thing I’d ask you is how would TU get factored into our typical conversations about C&R vs. C&K?  Trout Unlimited is not a C&R-only organization.  TU is not even a fly fishing organization, but accepts spincasting and baitcasting, both with artificial lures and with bait.  That’s why the Federation of Fly Fishers was originally formed by people who objected to these TU policies.  Tim, I think that this illustrates another reason why some people get frustrated with you.  In the middle of a conversation about C&R, all of a sudden you might be knocking TU or cutting osier branches to paint the water for brookies (a lovely image, to be sure, but one which fetches linear thinkers up a bit short.  We can get a bit fussy when that happens.). So I think that some people are confused or possibly made angry by the freewheeling nature of your posts, as well as by the actual substance (if any!  :-) ) of your comments.  But no one should insult you or send hate mail to you as a result of your communications. Woods Hole, MA   USA

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: Hello thoughtful readers, : I have made a lot of friends out of would be enemies by conversing : offline, exchanging flies and even meeting face to face for some : fishing together.   I have an open invitation to anyone who posts : here to come to western colorado and fish with me. Careful, I might take you up on it.  ;)

I’d be careful too.  Wayne might take him up on it.  I know that my travels ever do find me in Colorado again I will most certainly try and look Tim up for a couple hours or more of fishing. : I don’t want any damned lectures about what to post and not to post, : or how and what to say.  I ask only for fairness and objectivity : in response to my posts, which I always honor for all others.   : Is that too much to ask ?   For some people, yes.  It has been my observation that a lynch mob mentality can start when one poster starts to flame another. It’s happened to me.  Kinda makes you open season.

Often there might be a lynch mob merely because someone has posted something so contraversial that a lot of people disagree with it and want to express their opinion.  Tim posts on a contraversial topic and I would expect a lot of responses and I think he handles them quite well without resorting to vitriol and ad hominem attacks.  I can’t say the same thing for many of the people that disagree with him.  The other day someone declared that they were creating a killfile with Tim’s name in it.  I really couldn’t understand why someone would do that merely because they disagreed with his opinions.  If Tim presented them in a flammatory manner, attacking the people that use pure C&R rather then the practice I could understand but he doesn’t. I hope that those responsible for Tim’s posting will honor his request. — John Fereira Isis Distributed Systems – Ithaca, NY

Response:

Hello thoughtful readers, I put a lot of work and thought into the articles that I post here.  I have one pet peeve, that of the insanity of pure C&R on a wild population of fish.  This is an attitude that I feel is gaining momentum and has about a 50% or better following amongst fishermen, based on my casual observations.   Generally (Powlesland excepted) I never, ever attack individuals and I challenge anyone to finding an ad hominum post made by me in all the years of alt.fishing and roff.  I love a good laugh and poke good natured fun at our sport and current attitudes.  I try to ad variety and spice to what I feel would be a pretty droll ng sometimes.  I offer patterns and help and have spent hours offline helping flyfishermen of all walks.   I have made a lot of friends out of would be enemies by conversing offline, exchanging flies and even meeting face to face for some fishing together.   I have an open invitation to anyone who posts here to come to western colorado and fish with me. In short, I love the sport as I love life itself. Yet lately, for some reason, my name has appeared as the subject, my email is full of hate mail and one poster even said that they were ’so sick of me’.  This last post about wishing I would stop posting altogether has broken my resolve and hurt my feelings somewhat.  These posts are almost exclusively posts from those that have never, ever posted or expressed an idea or thoughtful answer to the ng. I don’t want any damned lectures about what to post and not to post, or how and what to say.  I ask only for fairness and objectivity in response to my posts, which I always honor for all others.   Is that too much to ask ?   TimW BTW – I am about to embark on several photographic journies in the new binaries group… 1) Tying sequences for Western Flies 2) real pictures of scarred old warriors from real C&R areas.  I think this a very worthwhile endeavor.   At the moment, though, I am not feeling very generous towards this ng, roff, particularly these lurkers that offer nothing but complaints about me.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hello thoughtful readers, I put a lot of work and thought into the articles that I post here.   This last post about wishing I would stop posting altogether has broken my resolve and hurt my feelings somewhat.  These posts are almost exclusively posts from those that have never, ever posted or expressed an idea or thoughtful answer to the ng. I don’t want any damned lectures about what to post and not to post, or how and what to say.  I ask only for fairness and objectivity in response to my posts, which I always honor for all others.   Is that too much to ask ?   At the moment, though, I am not feeling very generous towards this ng, roff, particularly these lurkers that offer nothing but complaints about me.

Having visited roff for the past few months it’s taken a while to learn a bit about the personalities who post here. It’s easy particularly in the first few visits to take posts (particularly those tongue in cheek) out of context and come away thinking that there’s a fine stock of creeps on this ng. Further there have been much unneeded barbs shot at identifable people &groups: namely GG, Rex Geirach Gary Borger ,the yuppy ff crowd and anyone who buys Orvis. Perhaps it’s good fun but someone is bound to take it personal. BEWARE those who give out should be prepared to get as good as they give. For my part I’ve got no intent to be deliberately malicious. I’d also add that over my months of browsing T-bone’s proven to be one of the more entertaining and though provoking denizens of these occassionally deep and troubled waters. Ralph H.

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: Hello thoughtful readers, : I have made a lot of friends out of would be enemies by conversing : offline, exchanging flies and even meeting face to face for some : fishing together.   I have an open invitation to anyone who posts : here to come to western colorado and fish with me. Careful, I might take you up on it.  ;) : I don’t want any damned lectures about what to post and not to post, : or how and what to say.  I ask only for fairness and objectivity : in response to my posts, which I always honor for all others.   : Is that too much to ask ?   For some people, yes.  It has been my observation that a lynch mob mentality can start when one poster starts to flame another. It’s happened to me.  Kinda makes you open season. Later, Jon Porter

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Question:

I am looking for flyfishing spots within 1hour drive of arlington,va to fish with my 8 year old son. Ideally, looking for spots with parking available within 1mile of site-please e-mail thx

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As someone who travels to DC often, I’d like to know about any nearby flyfishing, too. Please post replies or include me in the e-mail. Thanks! Rod Forth

Ok.  You’ll hear people write about the Patapsco, Potomac, Hunting Creek and others around DC. The Pat and the Pot have some Smallmouth, the Pat a few put-n-take  trout in the Spring.  Hunting Creek is worthless as a trout fishery — it’s become one of the great disappointments in Maryland because of uncontrolled flow  – meaning very little flow (so don’t waste your time driving to Thurmont unless you want to see some pretty scenary).   Set your sights on the Gunpowder in northern Baltimore county, below Prettyboy reservoir.    Best thing going (within a couple hours of DC, anyway). One rule:  Put them back unharmed.  Thanks. J

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I know of the big hunting creek in the Cotoctin mountain. There are also a few others in the area. I’ve been there a couple of times but i’m not sure of the highway that goes there. I do know that it is near FREDERICK and THURMONT MD. It is about an hour drive from DC. I suggest you look at a map or better yet call a local fly shop. tight lines mike* – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As someone who travels to DC often, I’d like to know about any nearby flyfishing, too. Please post replies or include me in the e-mail. Thanks! Rod Forth

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Question:

        Why don’t we start another subnet for flyfishing, and then break down each major cat. so that we can become organized in our net. Something to think about, it’s helped other news groups out alot! GN

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   Why don’t we start another subnet for flyfishing, and then break down each major cat. so that we can become organized in our net. Something to think about, it’s helped other news groups out alot!

The traffic level isn’t high enough to justify creating subgroups.  The flyfishing discussions seem to be coexisting quite well with all the other discussions.   — John Fereira

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