Question:

Got it…all except never saying the ‘m’ word.  Sounds nasty, but my dictionary says it is pretty benign as far as the English form of the word goes.

Sorry, that was an inside joke.   Which leads me to another tip if you’re a usenet newbie:  http://groups.google.com is an archive of past posts from this & other newsgroups going back several years.   It’s not a bad idea to do a search there before posting a question here (or anywhere).   Chances are good it’s been asked before & answered 20 different ways; but you’re always free to be #21.   Just for fun, you could do a search on the M word (it was the subject of some spirited discussion a while back). HTH, Joe F.

Response:

Thanks rb, Stan, Tom; Got it…all except never saying the ‘m’ word.  Sounds nasty, but my dictionary says it is pretty benign as far as the English form of the word goes.

Benign?  BENIGN??!!  Why you littl…….sputter…….wheeze….if I eve…..aaaaarrrrgggghhhh! Wolfgang deep breaths….deep breaths….

Response:

Thanks Guys, Found http://www.faqs.org/usenet/ is a good source of Usenet News Netiquette and Sundry.  Thanks to your suggestions. Goofed again thinking I knew how to post a link to a picture of a trout I caught with whirling disease, works…but to wrong photo.  Not sure if I can tell if I got the new posts cancelled which I attempted immediately.  Got Lots of studying before I post to other than ‘misc.test’ and such. Thanks for your patience, Scott

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  With the message you want to cancel selected, go to the tab marked "message" click on it, select "cancel message" and you are done. It won’t be cancelled on all servers if it has been a while since the post was made, but unless it is reallllly a bad post don’t bother sending a cancel.

Response:

That’s OK Scott, I’m an old fart hereabouts so I’ll say it for you…meniscus, meniscus, meniscus, meniscus, Wolfie sucks meniscus thru a straw!  There, I feel better now. (seg) Frank Church in Elkhart, IN bassbugr AT yahoo dot com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -}<((((o ~~~ }<((((o ~~~ }<((((o ~~~ }<(((o Thanks rb, Stan, Tom; Got it…all except never saying the ‘m’ word.  Sounds nasty, but my dictionary says it is pretty benign as far as the English form of the word goes. Scott

Response:

That’s OK Scott, I’m an old fart hereabouts so I’ll say it for you…meniscus, meniscus, meniscus, meniscus, Wolfie sucks meniscus thru a straw!  There, I feel better now. (seg)

He knows where you live.  He knows where you fish.  He will bide his time.  He is patient.  He is inexorable.  He is implacable. Not Pete

Response:

Thanks rb, Stan, Tom; Got it…all except never saying the ‘m’ word.  Sounds nasty, but my dictionary says it is pretty benign as far as the English form of the word goes. Benign?  BENIGN??!!  Why you littl…….sputter…….wheeze….if I eve…..aaaaarrrrgggghhhh! Wolfgang deep breaths….deep breaths….

– I’ve finally made my mind up about you Wolfgang.  You’re just like cancer.  Given enough time, you grow on people. Love your humor when it isn’t vicious. zoooooommmmmmmmmmmmmmmm! deep breaths . . . *sigh* (C) George Gehrke 2001 http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html     fine bamboo flyrods & blanks

Response:

And, for GOD’s sake, watch out for Waldo if he’s having a bad hair day..

In the past 2+ years I’ve fished with Waldo probably 12-15 times and until he opened that shop in Morganton I wasn’t aware that he was capable of anything *but* bad hair days –Steve

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks rb, Stan, Tom; Got it…all except never saying the ‘m’ word.  Sounds nasty, but my dictionary says it is pretty benign as far as the English form of the word goes. Benign?  BENIGN??!!  Why you littl…….sputter…….wheeze….if I eve…..aaaaarrrrgggghhhh! Wolfgang deep breaths….deep breaths…. — I’ve finally made my mind up about you Wolfgang.  You’re just like cancer.  Given enough time, you grow on people. Love your humor when it isn’t vicious. zoooooommmmmmmmmmmmmmmm! deep breaths . . . *sigh*

Took you a while.  He’s always vicious.  If it didn’t seem like it, you missed something.  Trust me. Not Pete damn, where did you guys pick this one up?

Response:

Oops…is there a way for me (as the sender) to delete the post or have it deleted?

 With the message you want to cancel selected, go to the tab marked "message" click on it, select "cancel message" and you are done. It won’t be cancelled on all servers if it has been a while since the post was made, but unless it is reallllly a bad post don’t bother sending a cancel. — Don Thompson Another Thompson Scion – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Surprised that a post containing ‘<a href…etc’ was kicked back by the news server filter but it allowed attachment through if they are unacceptable. Saw that ‘alt.fan.bettie-page’ (that probably shows my age) had attachments but have no idea what ‘alt.’ means or which other allow for images besides ‘.binary.’ Are there any tutorials or faq for usenet newbies?  My isp (amexol) provides nothing.  Search for info did not cover such questions, mostly hows, not whats. Help, Scott Have pic of the most beautiful moss-back brown trout I have ever seen, beyond my abilities of description…are image attachments acceptable? Newbie to newsgroups.  Figure if attachments not allowed, wont go through…as I discovered with post containing HTML link being rejected. NO!   Image attachments are *not* okay here.   You should post them to a binary ng such as alt.binary.pictures.fishing.   Then simply post here that the pix are there.   And unfortunately yes, they did come through (all 92KB of them.); but nobody with a shred of sanity would open an unsolicited attachment anyway. HTH, Joe F.

Response:

Thanks rb, Stan, Tom; Got it…all except never saying the ‘m’ word.  Sounds nasty, but my dictionary says it is pretty benign as far as the English form of the word goes. Scott

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Don’t try to sell stuff or use this forum as your personal soapbox.   Do tell us about yourself, your fishing trips, your tips & secrets.   If you make a nasty comment meant in jest, it’s not a bad idea to make that clear with a smiley or grin for the benefit of the humor-impaired.   Don’t say anything  here you wouldn’t say to a man’s face.  Don’t forget that this is an international forum.    Don’t ever say meniscus. HTH, Joe F.

Response:

Have pic of the most beautiful moss-back brown trout I have ever seen, beyond my abilities of description…are image attachments acceptable? Newbie to newsgroups.  Figure if attachments not allowed, wont go through…as I discovered with post containing HTML link being rejected.

NO!   Image attachments are *not* okay here.   You should post them to a binary ng such as alt.binary.pictures.fishing.   Then simply post here that the pix are there.   And unfortunately yes, they did come through (all 92KB of them.); but nobody with a shred of sanity would open an unsolicited attachment anyway. HTH, Joe F.

Response:

Oops…is there a way for me (as the sender) to delete the post or have it deleted? Surprised that a post containing ‘<a href…etc’ was kicked back by the news server filter but it allowed attachment through if they are unacceptable. Saw that ‘alt.fan.bettie-page’ (that probably shows my age) had attachments but have no idea what ‘alt.’ means or which other allow for images besides ‘.binary.’ Are there any tutorials or faq for usenet newbies?  My isp (amexol) provides nothing.  Search for info did not cover such questions, mostly hows, not whats. Help, Scott

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Have pic of the most beautiful moss-back brown trout I have ever seen, beyond my abilities of description…are image attachments acceptable? Newbie to newsgroups.  Figure if attachments not allowed, wont go through…as I discovered with post containing HTML link being rejected. NO!   Image attachments are *not* okay here.   You should post them to a binary ng such as alt.binary.pictures.fishing.   Then simply post here that the pix are there.   And unfortunately yes, they did come through (all 92KB of them.); but nobody with a shred of sanity would open an unsolicited attachment anyway. HTH, Joe F.

Response:

Oops…is there a way for me (as the sender) to delete the post or have it deleted?

Some newsreaders (e.g. Outlook Express) allow a "Cancel Message" but it doesn’t always work, & I wouldn’t bother. Are there any tutorials or faq for usenet newbies?  My isp (amexol) provides nothing.  Search for info did not cover such questions, mostly hows, not whats.

Probably, but darned if I know where.   Undoubtedly someone here does & will jump in.   In general, though most of what you need to know will only come through experience.   Most groups have different "personalities" as far as the level of friendliness, abuse, hostility, etc. that goes beyond the how, what, & why.   With any group, it’s usually a good idea to just read all the posts for a while to get a feel for it before jumping in.   This group, for example, despite being primarily fly-fishing related, spends a great deal of time discussing other things.   In the right context, that is acceptable here; but some groups react badly to any off-topic discussions. Also in general, be respectful of basic societal norms and courtesies. Don’t be an asshole.   Pay attention if somebody tells you you are.   We cannot and do not keep total assholes from barging in here and being a nuisance, but we can at least have a great deal of entertainment at their expense (lemons from lemonade and all that).   You do not want to be on the receiving end of what some folks can dish out. Don’t try to sell stuff or use this forum as your personal soapbox.   Do tell us about yourself, your fishing trips, your tips & secrets.   If you make a nasty comment meant in jest, it’s not a bad idea to make that clear with a smiley or grin for the benefit of the humor-impaired.   Don’t say anything  here you wouldn’t say to a man’s face.  Don’t forget that this is an international forum.    Don’t ever say meniscus. Don’t think you’re smarter than us; you’re not.   The collective intelligence among the cast of characters here is amazing on a variety of topics.   If you ask for help, somebody will definitely know the answer if it’s fishing-related; and you’ve got a good chance even if it isn’t.   And be specific. We’re all human being behind these electronic facades, & it’s better when we act accordingly.   Read, pay attention, listen, join in.   It’s simple. HTH, Joe F.

Response:

And, for GOD’s sake, watch out for Waldo if he’s having a bad hair day.. Tom – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Oops…is there a way for me (as the sender) to delete the post or have it deleted? Some newsreaders (e.g. Outlook Express) allow a "Cancel Message" but it doesn’t always work, & I wouldn’t bother. Are there any tutorials or faq for usenet newbies?  My isp (amexol) provides nothing.  Search for info did not cover such questions, mostly hows, not whats. Probably, but darned if I know where.   Undoubtedly someone here does & will jump in.   In general, though most of what you need to know will only come through experience.   Most groups have different "personalities" as far as the level of friendliness, abuse, hostility, etc. that goes beyond the how, what, & why.   With any group, it’s usually a good idea to just read all the posts for a while to get a feel for it before jumping in.   This group, for example, despite being primarily fly-fishing related, spends a great deal of time discussing other things.   In the right context, that is acceptable here; but some groups react badly to any off-topic discussions. Also in general, be respectful of basic societal norms and courtesies. Don’t be an asshole.   Pay attention if somebody tells you you are.   We cannot and do not keep total assholes from barging in here and being a nuisance, but we can at least have a great deal of entertainment at their expense (lemons from lemonade and all that).   You do not want to be on the receiving end of what some folks can dish out. Don’t try to sell stuff or use this forum as your personal soapbox.   Do tell us about yourself, your fishing trips, your tips & secrets.   If you make a nasty comment meant in jest, it’s not a bad idea to make that clear with a smiley or grin for the benefit of the humor-impaired.   Don’t say anything  here you wouldn’t say to a man’s face.  Don’t forget that this is an international forum.    Don’t ever say meniscus. Don’t think you’re smarter than us; you’re not.   The collective intelligence among the cast of characters here is amazing on a variety of topics.   If you ask for help, somebody will definitely know the answer if it’s fishing-related; and you’ve got a good chance even if it isn’t.   And be specific. We’re all human being behind these electronic facades, & it’s better when we act accordingly.   Read, pay attention, listen, join in.   It’s simple. HTH, Joe F.

Response:

Are there any tutorials or faq for usenet newbies?  My isp (amexol) provides nothing.  Search for info did not cover such questions, mostly hows, not whats.

Go to www.google.com and enter the search phrase ‘usenet FAQ’. Generally binaries are acceptable in alt.binary.*** groups and possible a few others.  There’s lots of reasons for keeping attachments out of the text newsgroup hierarchies, which the FAQs will explain.  Joes’s suggestion to post of alt.binaries.pictures.fishing is appropriate as is sending the URL of a web page where the picture can be retrieved.  Note that some of the ROFF readers cannot get a.b.p.f., and a web reference reaches more people. Nice fish by the way. –Stan

Response:

Question:

Or you can do the D.C. version where they close their eyes before they get in the truck.   Makes driving interesting, but they seem to make it.

Which gave rise to the joke: "How do you make a (insert ethnic group here) blind?   Put a windshield in front of ‘em." Joe F. (who wouldn’t be so politically incorrect as to suggest the retelling of ethnic jokes.)

Response:

Fortunately I’m not at that point yet.  Just want to avoid the tedious walk to shore and the rigmarole involved in dropping the waders, etc.  (In addition to making a mint).

The technology already exists.  You would have to modify it of course. Orfice…err I mean Orvis makes a waterproof cuff on their jackets if I recall.  I imagine that could surely be modified for a schlong. Perhaps we should get ahold of Tarp Boy <g — Warren Findley Shut up and fish! For Yellowstone Clave info: http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt/YNP.html

Response:

The technology already exists.  You would have to modify it of course. Orfice…err I mean Orvis makes a waterproof cuff on their jackets if I recall.  I imagine that could surely be modified for a schlong. Perhaps we should get ahold of Tarp Boy <g

Right.  I’m going to trust the technology used to protect yupyup forearms. Besides, a cuff is meant to have something (the hand) outside it all the time.  Not exactly what I had in mind.  We need something that opens, dum-de-dum-de-dum, then closes watertight, *with* everything safe and cozy back inside.  There’s a fortune just waiting to be made here.   JR

Response:

Right.  I’m going to trust the technology used to protect yupyup forearms. Besides, a cuff is meant to have something (the hand) outside it all the time.  Not exactly what I had in mind.  We need something that opens, dum-de-dum-de-dum, then closes watertight, *with* everything safe and cozy back inside.  There’s a fortune just waiting to be made here.

Well, using their dry cuff technology, you should be even to close it off small enough so that *your* pecker won’t hang out. — Warren Findley Shut up and fish! For Yellowstone Clave info: http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt/YNP.html

Response:

Yes, but strictly speaking, the only truly ethical method is blind (Kung Fu) fly fishing, where you keep your eyes tightly shut from the moment you stop the truck streamside until the time you start it again at the end of the day.

It’s still unethical if you drive with your eyes open. — Charlie…

Response:

Or you can do the D.C. version where they close their eyes before they get in the truck.   Makes driving interesting, but they seem to make it.        Frank – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yes, but strictly speaking, the only truly ethical method is blind (Kung Fu) fly fishing, where you keep your eyes tightly shut from the moment you stop the truck streamside until the time you start it again at the end of the day. JR

Response:

Um, and you’re going to wear a pince-nez on a gear-zip and periodically place them in front of sunglasses?  Yeah, no chance of looking er, "odd" there…<G. Yes, well, who can account for personal tastes?  One man’s oddity is another’s charming eccentricity (helped along by a bit of wishful thinking).

No offense to you, MC, or his buddy, but if you hang a goose-neck magnifier from your vest, "charming eccentricity" will need all the help it can get… I think we may be not on the same page, so to speak.  This would simply be a single small rotating lens that would pivot into place when needed – I doubt it be all that noticeable, hardly "borg-like" (it wouldn’t look like some Cobra helicopter sight), and might even be considered modest, even minimalist, amongst the eyeglass modification bunch.   Actually, the more I thought about it after posting my reply, the more I wondered why I had originally dismissed the idea out of hand.  I know a jeweler in Corvallis and will ask him about suppliers.

And if he can’t, I suspect a ‘net search will turn up a bunch, but if not, let me know – the guy who takes care of my watches has one (this is what gave me the idea), and I’d guess he knows where to get ‘em. Hell, RW has 2 grand Tommy Porchflopper frames with HUD-ready EvianTech2000 biolenses and MC is acting like Erkel and using CNC gear and sneaking into the labs at BASF to redesign Dwayne Wayne’s flip-ups (hey, these 80’s sitcoms just popped into my head, and no, I can’t explain _that_, either.) Fishing in the stream of consciousness again, eh?

Oh, not just fishing – swimming, boating, skiing, and generally cavorting about – the water’s always the right temperature, and it’s always clear as crystal.  Even when it’s an elaborate set of circus animals, or the Roederer…. TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -JR

Response:

The technology already exists.  You would have to modify it of course. Orfice…err I mean Orvis makes a waterproof cuff on their jackets if I recall.  I imagine that could surely be modified for a schlong. Perhaps we should get ahold of Tarp Boy <g Right.  I’m going to trust the technology used to protect yupyup forearms. Besides, a cuff is meant to have something (the hand) outside it all the time.  Not exactly what I had in mind.  We need something that opens, dum-de-dum-de-dum, then closes watertight, *with* everything safe and cozy back inside.  There’s a fortune just waiting to be made here.   JR

Why not just use a "sea bag" type closure on a fly (a pant fly, not a fishing fly)?  Frankly, if you guys wouldn’t go out with enough crap loaded up and dangling off of you to make Batman jealous <G, the most you’d have to do is undo your suspenders and a belt.  I put my (lightly loaded) vest on last if I have higher-than-waist "water gear" and have _nothing_ not in a pocket – I can ditch it in about 3 seconds.  I just don’t find taking a wizz a big problem, but…. TC, R

Response:

<SNIP  I  e-mailed a couple of angling colleagues, ( mainly because I could not remember which one uses the gear ) the first one sent me this; http://www.altrec.com/shop/detail/7823/14 He reckons it is the bees knees. This might be of interest to Wolfgang ! http://www.franeloptical.com/OPT150900N.html the firm has one or two other novelties which might  be of interest, for instance; http://www.franeloptical.com/Hands_Free_Mags.html http://www.franeloptical.com/FRASNALO.html ( This looks like the swan neck magnifier my other colleague uses). This might work OK as well. http://www.frankedmunds.thomasregister.com/olc/frankedmunds/5.jpg A couple more just for interest; http://www.ilp-online.com/html/ultraviewer.html http://www.modernseniors.com/Make_Life_Easier/AD-Hands_Free.htm http://www.lifewithease.com/magnifree.html http://www.e-sci.com/genSci/1/1002/1005/10361.html http://www.lifeplace.com/Catalog/products/H/hands_free_magnifier.asp TL MC

Response:

<SNIP  I  e-mailed a couple of angling colleagues, ( mainly because I could not remember which one uses the gear ) the first one sent me this; http://www.altrec.com/shop/detail/7823/14

Thanks for this and the other links.  I knew about the Wood River magnifier.  I was hoping not to have yet another thing hanging around my neck, but I’ll check it out at my local fly shop and see if there’s a way to attach it to my chest pack. Ah!  Sometimes I think growing old was a mistake. JR

Response:

You might like to look at this; http://www.hatta.com/wecmag.htm Hmmmmmmm! TL MC

Response:

What about those watchmaker’s lenses that attach to the rim of the glasses-frame and rotate into position when needed?  Most I’ve seen have several rotating lenses, but I’d guess you could get or modify it for only one lens of the needed strength.  You might also talk to a surgeon’s supply house. See my reply to rw about not wanting to look any sillier than I absolutely have to.  

Um, and you’re going to wear a pince-nez on a gear-zip and periodically place them in front of sunglasses?  Yeah, no chance of looking er, "odd" there…<G.   Person would look like a damn fly fishing Borg.

I think we may be not on the same page, so to speak.  This would simply be a single small rotating lens that would pivot into place when needed – I doubt it be all that noticeable, hardly "borg-like" (it wouldn’t look like some Cobra helicopter sight), and might even be considered modest, even minimalist, amongst the eyeglass modification bunch.  Hell, RW has 2 grand Tommy Porchflopper frames with HUD-ready EvianTech2000 biolenses and MC is acting like Erkel and using CNC gear and sneaking into the labs at BASF to redesign Dwayne Wayne’s flip-ups (hey, these 80’s sitcoms just popped into my head, and no, I can’t explain _that_, either.) <G TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -JR

Response:

What’s the silliest thing you ever saw another fly fisherman wear?   JR

 A cell phone….

Response:

If you use a chest pack, then there is a magnifier available on a swan neck, which attaches to it. It simply folds away when not in use. Looks like the magnifiers sold for attaching to some tying vices. It may even attach to a vest. I have seen a guy using one of these, he also has a light on it, ( a very neat LED mini-lite),  I will ask him where he got it if you like?

Yes, if you would.  I wear a chest pack more often these days than I used to. Breathables will eventually be pass

Question:

I have some scans of pictures taken of the Elk River in BC that I obtained from the local fly shop.  If you wish, I could email them to you. Peter

Response:

I have some scans of pictures taken of the Elk River in BC that I obtained from the local fly shop.  If you wish, I could email them to you. Peter

Sure Peter, thanks.  Have you ever fished there or know folks who do/have?  I have been to Canada a few times on hunting trips (going again next November to Anticosti) but never to BC and it does sound and look like it would be a wonderful trip. Before you buy.

Response:

I regularly fish the Elk River and tribs in BC, as well as the Crowsnest and other rivers in SW Alberta. I live in Lethbridge, Alberta, just a short hop from the area. I also run a web page about fishing in the area. It is at: www.telusplanet.net/public/cnangler/html Feel free to contact me by private e-mail to discuss this area, if you like. It is a wonderful place to fish. Tim Lysyk

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m contemplating a 3 day guided FF’ing trip in the spring.  I’ve wanted to do a pack trip to West Virginia to fish the Elk River and some of the surrounding streams for a few years, just have never gotten the time.  But recently I’ve received information on two other spots, one in particular, that sound enticing…one in North Carolina and one in eastern British Columbia. BC:  The Elk River and its tributaries that run through eastern BC and the East Kootenay valleys.  Trip would most likely be two days of walk and wade and one day of driftboat fishing.  According to my literature, native cuts are the standard catch.  Some of the other rivers mentioned are the Oldman River and the Crowsnest. It sounds like a spectactularly beautiful area. WV: Have been thinking about WV for some time now.  Namely the Elk River but other smaller streams/rivers in the area too.  Some mentioned are the Cheat, Dry Fork, Glady Fork.  I don’t know what it is but I just can’t get WV out of my mind when I think of destinations.  Big plus…it’s probably just a days drive. NC:  Again, the Elk, Linville, North and South Toe.  Don’t really know much about the area except that it’s ont too far a drive and I’ve been told the areas mentioned are beautiful spots and the fishing is very good. So if anyone out there has first hand knowledge of these areas I’d love to here your opinions and comments on them.  Especially the BC trip….maybe some of the ROFF Canuck contingency can help out here. Also, if anyone knows of a good guide or two for these areas I’d appreciate the info.  I have names of guide services for these areas but other than looking for the "O" seal of approval, I’m picking blindly. Any help/comments are appreciated.  If anyone wants to discuss in Thanks in advance. Natty Before you buy.

Response:

I regularly fish the Elk River and tribs in BC, as well as the Crowsnest and other rivers in SW Alberta. I live in Lethbridge, Alberta, just a short hop from the area. I also run a web page about fishing in the area. It is at: www.telusplanet.net/public/cnangler/html Feel free to contact me by private e-mail to discuss this area, if you like. It is a wonderful place to fish. Tim Lysyk

Tim, I notice you have a picture of the Frank Slide on the front of your page.  Probably anyone who fishes the Crow has one, (mine was taken a lttle further downstream.) Peter

Response:

Actually, that is picture of very nice (and small in the picture) woman fly fishing in front of Turtle Mountain <G. By the way, I don’t take the pictures, my web page partner does (credit where credit is due). How often do you get this way?? Tim Lysyk

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I regularly fish the Elk River and tribs in BC, as well as the Crowsnest and other rivers in SW Alberta. I live in Lethbridge, Alberta, just a short hop from the area. I also run a web page about fishing in the area. It is at: www.telusplanet.net/public/cnangler/html Feel free to contact me by private e-mail to discuss this area, if you like. It is a wonderful place to fish. Tim Lysyk Tim, I notice you have a picture of the Frank Slide on the front of your page.  Probably anyone who fishes the Crow has one, (mine was taken a lttle further downstream.) Peter

Response:

I’m contemplating a 3 day guided FF’ing trip in the spring.  I’ve wanted to do a pack trip to West Virginia to fish the Elk River and some of the surrounding streams for a few years, just have never gotten the time.  But recently I’ve received information on two other spots, one in particular, that sound enticing…one in North Carolina and one in eastern British Columbia. BC:  The Elk River and its tributaries that run through eastern BC and the East Kootenay valleys.  Trip would most likely be two days of walk and wade and one day of driftboat fishing.  According to my literature, native cuts are the standard catch.  Some of the other rivers mentioned are the Oldman River and the Crowsnest. It sounds like a spectactularly beautiful area. WV: Have been thinking about WV for some time now.  Namely the Elk River but other smaller streams/rivers in the area too.  Some mentioned are the Cheat, Dry Fork, Glady Fork.  I don’t know what it is but I just can’t get WV out of my mind when I think of destinations.  Big plus…it’s probably just a days drive. NC:  Again, the Elk, Linville, North and South Toe.  Don’t really know much about the area except that it’s ont too far a drive and I’ve been told the areas mentioned are beautiful spots and the fishing is very good. So if anyone out there has first hand knowledge of these areas I’d love to here your opinions and comments on them.  Especially the BC trip….maybe some of the ROFF Canuck contingency can help out here. Also, if anyone knows of a good guide or two for these areas I’d appreciate the info.  I have names of guide services for these areas but other than looking for the "O" seal of approval, I’m picking blindly. Any help/comments are appreciated.  If anyone wants to discuss in Thanks in advance. Natty Before you buy.

Response:

I’ve always thought it’s kind of bad form to just come right out and ask a question like, "Where are the best places to fish." I don’t really intend to criticise the original poster (was it Hawkeye?) about asking such a question, but it seems to me that you get better results from coming at the question in a little more roundabout way. It also helps to spend lots of money in local flyshops, and to leave the impression that you’re prepared to spend a lot more. Short of that, developing some kind of relationship with the people whose honey holes you want to discover is a good investment. It’s especially touchy when hot fishing spots are discussed openly in a public forum like ROFF. A little research about just who in the newsgroup is likely to be knowledgeable about a particular spot, and then some discrete private emails, would probably pay off better. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Actually, that is picture of very nice (and small in the picture) woman fly fishing in front of Turtle Mountain <G. By the way, I don’t take the pictures, my web page partner does (credit where credit is due). How often do you get this way?? Tim Lysyk

The mountain in my picture looks like the mountain in your picture, (I took it from Hwy 3) and the local brochures refered to the light gray part as the Frank Slide.  I never did get to know the name of the mountain. I’ve only been able to fish Alberta once (Little Staufer, the Bow and the Crow) but I’ve been out three times on business.  I’d love to get back to fish the Crow again, plus the Elk and the Livingston. BTW, loved that little white and red pizza restaurant in Fort MacLeod.  I thought Rocky Mountain House was quite the place.   Head-smashed-in was cool too.  I sat on the prairie and just drank in the smells. Fabulous place – I’d move in a twinkle if I could. (should I be saying this on the Usenet?  <g) Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

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I’ve always thought it’s kind of bad form to just come right out and ask a question like, "Where are the best places to fish

rw, I dont mind that type of question.  If the asker is naive enough  to ask I am experienced enough to lie. Old Fart

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kind of relationship with the people whose honey holes you want to discover is a good investment. It’s especially touchy when hot fishing spots are discussed openly in a public forum like ROFF. A little research about just who in the newsgroup is likely to be knowledgeable about a particular spot, and then some discrete private emails, would probably pay off better. (snipped)

Your point is well taken RW.  I’m not looking to invade anyones spot as whichever route I take will certainly be booked through a guide/outfitter.  I’m totally unfamiliar with those areas and without a guide would most likely be discovered months later fishing gear strapped to my back, rotting away in some wooded area, topo map and compass still in hand. I am merely seeking input from those who may have fished the streams and areas I mentioned, no particular part of the stream…that’s the guides job.  As for the private email, that is why I left my email in case someone didn’t want to get into the discussion in the open forum.  Maybe I’m wrong but I didn’t think it was proper Usenet protocol to contact people from the group via private email without an invitation to do so. I certainly understand folks not wanting to get into detailed location pointing here…I have my spots that I wouldn’t want to blab aloud too.  Sorry if it came out that way…if anyone wants to offer info I Natty (I promise I won’t bring hordes of NJ bred "cousin Vinnys" to your spot…:-) Before you buy.

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The grey part is where the slide started. I always feel a sense of awe driving through the slide. I can’t remember the name of the pizza place in Fort Macleod, but will be driving through there tomorrow so will try to remember to get it. I can see the building in my mind. I love this area too. I used to work in Lethbridge during the summers when I was in university (78-80), and always dreamed of coming back to stay. I did in 1989. If you are ever come out this way again…..gimme a call. Tim Lysyk

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Actually, that is picture of very nice (and small in the picture) woman fly fishing in front of Turtle Mountain <G. By the way, I don’t take the pictures, my web page partner does (credit where credit is due). How often do you get this way?? Tim Lysyk The mountain in my picture looks like the mountain in your picture, (I took it from Hwy 3) and the local brochures refered to the light gray part as the Frank Slide.  I never did get to know the name of the mountain. I’ve only been able to fish Alberta once (Little Staufer, the Bow and the Crow) but I’ve been out three times on business.  I’d love to get back to fish the Crow again, plus the Elk and the Livingston. BTW, loved that little white and red pizza restaurant in Fort MacLeod.  I thought Rocky Mountain House was quite the place.   Head-smashed-in was cool too.  I sat on the prairie and just drank in the smells. Fabulous place – I’d move in a twinkle if I could. (should I be saying this on the Usenet?  <g) Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at

http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

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I used your deja address for the photos – should I have used the other? Peter

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I used your deja address for the photos – should I have used the other?

That’s fine Peter.  Truth is I only created a Deja address to keep from getting spammed on the other and actually have never checked it.  I can pick them up from deja mail.  Thanks very much! Natty Before you buy.

Response:

Your point is well taken RW.  I’m not looking to invade anyones spot as whichever route I take will certainly be booked through a guide/outfitter.  

Don’t worry about it. Like I said, I wasn’t criticising you. Natty (I promise I won’t bring hordes of NJ bred "cousin Vinnys" to your spot…:-)

— visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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I did in 1989. If you are ever come out this way again…..gimme a call.

Count on it Peter

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Question:

______ The only music that doesn’t insult fly fishing. Amen – George —

Question:

There are two schools of thought on this: !.  Too many guides restrict the rod’s action. 2. Too few guides allow the line to drag against the rod when it flexes. Take your pick. — Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail GO TO http://users.ccnet.com/~emh FOR TRAVEL TIE BOX PLANS Hi there! I am building a 7 foot 2-3wt st.croix rod. The problem is that I have found 2 different guide spacing charts for 7 footers. One used 8 guides the other 9. Which one should I use? Jarkko —

—                                             |    Jarkko Karvinen                            |    Student of biochemistry                    |  E. coli happens  University of Turku, Finland               |    tel. +358 (0)2 3338059                        |

— – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am building a 7 foot 2-3wt st.croix rod. The problem is that I have found 2 different guide spacing charts for 7 footers. One used 8 guides the other 9. Which one should I use?<BR The general rule of thumb is one guide for every foot plus the stripper, so 8 is the general rule of thumb.  One thing you might try is to tape the guides on with both the spacing for the 9 guides and the 8 guides and them string a line trhough them and see how the rod flexes.  Basically, the more guides the more friction.  But fewer is not better either – find a hapy medium by flexing the rod with line through the guides and make sure there are no dead spotsor places where the line touches the rod. Or – you might try calling St Croix.  I bet they would give you the guide spacing they use on the factory rod. Al Manchester, NH

      I know you are not the original poster but he may read this. I have an 8′ 8wt, a 7′6" 3wt and a 6′6" 5wt. The question gave me food for thought so I counted the guides on each, they all have 8, stripper included. with the exception of stripper and tip-top are all snake guides, all are factory. I also looked up the guide kits all are 8 guide.                                                              John Popp                                                           in Sanford Fl.

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I know you are not the original poster but he may read this. Ihave an 8′

8wt, a 7′6" 3wt and a 6′6" 5wt. The question gave me food forthought so I counted the guides on each, they all have 8, stripperincluded. with the exception of stripper and tip-top are all snakeguides, all are factory. I also looked up the guide kits all are 8guide. I don’t doubt that all your rods in various lengths have the same amount of gudes.  This is a subjuect that is debated as much as anythng in fly fishing. As I said "the general rule of thumb" is one per foot plus a stripper guide. Many manufacturers leave a guide or two off to save money, some rods cast better with fewer or more guides. There are a couple of ways to determine guide spacing.  Clemens and Anglers Work Shop as well as some otheres I would guess sell a tool that will allow you to test the spacing of the guides with the rod under load.  There is a program that Cane rod builders use that was written by Wayne Catanach that calculates the spacing based on the number of guides you choose and the placement of the stripper guide.  Several books list guide placement charts as well, and Blue Ridge Rod Company includes a very good one in their catalog. I personally have always used the 1 guide per foot plus the stripper for my rods.   In Skip Morris’s book "The Custon Graphite Rod" and in Handcrafting Custom Graphite Fly Rods" by L.A. Garcia, this is the information that they provide, although the spacings are a bit different and Skip Morris provides some good insight as to the actuual placement of guides based on the rod and the fishermam it is intended for, as well as some general guide lines for placement of guides on soft and fast action rods.  It is interesting reading. The mark of a true custom rod may be going to the extra step of testing the guide placement with the rod under stress.  I have done this a few times but the standard guide placements on the graphite rods I have built have all been so close that I dont worry about it any more. It’s an interesting debate for rod builders.  Could you tell me where you looked up the guide kits for these rods?  Might just be a catalog I am missing:))))) Al Manchester, NH

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Hi there! I am building a 7 foot 2-3wt st.croix rod. The problem is that I have found 2 different guide spacing charts for 7 footers. One used 8 guides the other 9. Which one should I use? Jarkko —                                             |    Jarkko Karvinen                            |    Student of biochemistry                    |  E. coli happens  University of Turku, Finland               |    tel. +358 (0)2 3338059                     |

Response:

I am building a 7 foot 2-3wt st.croix rod. The problem is that I have found 2

different guide spacing charts for 7 footers. One used 8 guides the other 9. Which one should I use?<BR The general rule of thumb is one guide for every foot plus the stripper, so 8 is the general rule of thumb.  One thing you might try is to tape the guides on with both the spacing for the 9 guides and the 8 guides and them string a line trhough them and see how the rod flexes.  Basically, the more guides the more friction.  But fewer is not better either – find a hapy medium by flexing the rod with line through the guides and make sure there are no dead spotsor places where the line touches the rod. Or – you might try calling St Croix.  I bet they would give you the guide spacing they use on the factory rod. Al Manchester, NH

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Hi there! I am building a 7 foot 2-3wt st.croix rod. The problem is that I have found 2 different guide spacing charts for 7 footers. One used 8 guides the other 9. Which one should I use? Jarkko

I don’t know how prevelent St Croix rods are in Finland, but your best bet would probably be to find an assembled rod from the manufacturer and copy their guided size and placement. There are some rod shop owners on this group, maybe one of them can measure it for you if you can’t find the rod in your area. Good luck,      - Ken

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Hi there! I am building a 7 foot 2-3wt st.croix rod. The problem is that I have found 2 different guide spacing charts for 7 footers. One used 8 guides the other 9. Which one should I use?

Jarkko, here’s the spacing (and 7 Fuji guides) that I use on a 7ft fly rod. Note that the last (8mm2) is a 2-footed guide, the rest are single foot guides, and the measurements are in inches starting from the tip. If I recall, I got these recommendations from L.G. Custom Tackle (G. Loomis dealer and custom rod builder) many years ago. IMHO I think 9 guides is way too many for anything under 8′. I prefer the single footed Hardloy or SIC Fuji’s to the traditional snake guides which allow the line to slap against the blank. 7′ – 4(6mm), 9(6mm), 15(6mm), 22(7mm), 30(7mm), 40(8mm), 52(8mm2) Now you have 3 choices David E. Malone All opinions expressed are my own.

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Question:

[some deleted] But the attitude by these anglers was" I caught and released that fish on a real artificial fly (probably a chartreuse egg pattern with attractant sprayed on it ) with a  2 lb tippet. So I must be a better sportsmen then the guy in the lawn chair." This is nothing but alot of Crap in my book.

I sense and share your frustration Mike.  Hang tough and keep up the good work. TimW

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The driving force behind  this definition was to eliminate the use of premolded scented baits (berkely power eggs) that were LEGALLY artificial until January of this year.

That is definitely a point we have to keep in mind. The message that started this thread made all sorts of dire pronouncements that any artificial material would be prohibited in fishing. As several people pointed out, that pretty much eliminates steel hooks, synthetic yarn, nylon monofilament leaders and much of what we use to fish with. It’s also the exact opposite of what was really being proposed. Let’s leave off the alarmist garbage and deal with the real issues. The worm fisherman is no more or less holy than we of the exalted fly genre. Different people enjoy different types of fishing and different waters require different regulations. The real question is whether Power Eggs(tm) and the like constitute some sort of unfair advantage in certain waters or are conducive to higher mortality through deep hooking. That’s presumably why we pay big bucks to marine biologists to set these policies. — |     Liberty Communications — Spreading the Word     | |                Michael P. Thompson                   |

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snip The real question is whether Power Eggs(tm) and the like constitute some sort of unfair advantage in certain waters or are conducive to higher mortality through deep hooking. That’s presumably why we pay big bucks to marine biologists to set these policies.

snip I’m not sure I understand the concept of "unfair advantage" when it comes to fishing.  The first thing that came to mind was some fly fishermen being upset about bait working better (I know that’s not what you meant Michael). Ross Wilson

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Mike, I think there’s no doubt that a 3-inch Power Tube is an "artificial" under the new regulations. If it were less than 1.5 inches it would not be an artificial. After thinking more about your posts, however, I guess I’ve come around to your view that the new regs won’t cover a variety of possible situations, especially ones where there is scented material made part of a lure or fly over 1.5 inches long. Best wishes.  Jeff

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Let’s leave off the alarmist garbage and deal with the real issues. The worm fisherman is no more or less holy than we of the exalted fly genre. Different people enjoy different types of fishing and different waters require different regulations.

Except the worm fishermen doesn’t lobby, pressure, or persuade those that we pay the big bucks to exclude the flyfishermen from their preferred methods of enjoyment. respectfully, Mike Miller

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if it weren’t for the greedy flyfishing industry, this would not even be an issue..IMHO..protectionism… TimW

Greed……no doubt, but I suspect more than just the Fly – fishing industry regards, Mike

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Ok Jeff, so answer this question please, Can you or can you not fish with a 3" BERKLEY POWER TUBE? regards, Mike

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if it weren’t for the greedy flyfishing industry, this would not even be an issue..IMHO..protectionism… TimW Greed……no doubt, but I suspect more than just the Fly – fishing industry

Why would any other group *care* about a flyfishing only definition ? TimW

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – if it weren’t for the greedy flyfishing industry, this would not even be an issue..IMHO..protectionism… TimW Greed……no doubt, but I suspect more than just the Fly – fishing industry Why would any other group *care* about a flyfishing only definition ? TimW

The driving force behind  this definition was to eliminate the use of premolded scented baits (berkely power eggs) that were LEGALLY artificial until January of this year. Spinney Mountain Res. was the focus of much of the debate.  As you probably know Spinney is managed as "Gold Medal" Water with artificial  fly & lure only tackle restrictions and a one fish over 20" bag limit and the canyon  recently had Gold Medal regulations extended to the dam. My reference to purists, elitists, attitudes comes from experience fishing these waters and a witness to the debates over the issue at the commission meetings. On opening day 1995 at Spinney, there was a gentlemen fishing with power eggs. He had brought along the lawn chair and 4 young children. This guy caught about 6 trout that day on his chartreuse colored power eggs allowing each of the kids an opportunity to bring one in. He kept one and as far as I could tell no  harm came to the fish he released. But this guy came under heavy and constant critizism from the crowd (who were primarily fishless) because in their *holier than thou minds* he was a scondrel for using such a bait (although technically he was not breaking any laws.) Now, I will not dispute the fact that PASSIVELY fishing such a bait will probably kill alot of fish that by law have to be released. But at Spinney I have witnessed many a fine fish played to exhaustion, kept out of the water for extreme periods of time, (for the picture ceremony)  dropped on the rocks a couple of times, drug along the bank in the sand, and kicked back into the water because it was only 19 7/8" long. But the attitude by these anglers was" I caught and released that fish on a real artificial fly (probably a chartreuse egg pattern with attractant sprayed on it ) with a  2 lb tippet. So I must be a better sportsmen then the guy in the lawn chair." This is nothing but alot of Crap in my book. regards, Mike Miller

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I just heard that the state of Colorado has decided that flies should not use any artificial (synthetic) materials. If it uses such things as foam, it is a bait and not a fly. Any comments about this. The intent of the Colorado’s definition of what constitutes an *artificial* fly or lure was simply to eliminate scented baits, such as power baits & eggs.  Unfortunately the wording is very confusing and I think the C.D.O.W. doesn’t totallly understand what they have said. It will probably be un – enforceable except for the obvious infractions.

I was surprised (not pleasantly) to notice that Mike Miller was the only one of the many who commented on this who seemed to have actually read the regulation. Most others assumed that what Paul had "just heard" was the gospel truth, then proceeded to denigrate the DOW for being so asinine. It is pretty obvious that very few contemporary fishing flies could be tied without using artificial or synthetic materials. Even rayon thread would be prohibited by such a regulation. Besides, it would be virtually unenforceable and bad for public relations. To prohibit artificial material from an artificial lure such as a fly is counter to the whole idea behind bait regulations. They generally seek to limit the use of live bait and artificial substances which simulate live bait (such as power bait, etc.). It would not make sense for anyone to prohibit the use of artificial materials in an artificial lure. People would have to start carving their bass plugs out of wood again. My point is, on the face of it, this "report" of what Paul had "heard" is not credible and needs to be checked out before we go griping about what stupidity the DOW is currently engaged in. — |     Liberty Communications — Spreading the Word     | |                Michael P. Thompson                   |

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J Let’s not forget that what they are *trying* to do is to find a J definition that excludes powerbait and its related "scented lure" J products. A good point.  Trying is the operative word here and sloppy legislation does not a good bill make.  Having lived in Denver for two years, I applaud setting waters aside for bait (power bait, although synthetic, is still bait IMHO) and artificial approaches. Heck, I _enjoy_ bait fishing once or twice a year for stockies. As a lifelong redneck I have drown my share of worms and crickets and defend anyone’s right to do so. It is up to the folks at wildlife to make sure that catch and keep does not endanger wild fish. Well, there’s my opinion anyway. But thanks for your post!      Trey Monroe

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For example, I’ve fallen in love with the Stimulator this year… it has brought some very large fish to shore.  Why?  Is it a caddis imitation or a stone fly imitation?  I say neither… it’s probably that orange piece in the front of the fly that looks like a Salmon Egg to the fish.  A Stimulator doesn’t closely imitate anything in the water, but sure catches some large fish.

A salmon egg floating on the surface being eaten by what? The Stimulator has the classic profile of both fluttering caddis and stones. Further, how does your egg theory explain the success of the same fly with olive, peacock, and tan thorax regions?

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: A salmon egg floating on the surface being eaten by what? The Stimulator : has the classic profile of both fluttering caddis and stones. Further, : how does your egg theory explain the success of the same fly with olive, : peacock, and tan thorax regions? For me, they haven’t been nearly as effective as the orange color.  And I’m not certain the color triggers anything near a salmon egg… perhaps it looks like a big eye.  My point is that there are better imitations of the things you mention, but the Stimmy works well, often better. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

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if it weren’t for the greedy flyfishing industry, this would not even be an issue..IMHO..protectionism… TimW

Response:

Someone who has the new regulations, please read them and tell me if a 1.6 inch artificial Power Worm is artificial under the new regulation. My reading suggests that they are to be considered "artificial"

This issue arose at Spinney Mountain on opening day 1996, several individuals were using 3" Berkley Power Tubes. They looked identical  to other tube jigs (i.e. gitizits). The State Parks law enforcement officer  explained to me that according to his instructions they were lega, stating they were over 1 1/2". Also a DOW officer checked these fishermen and did not issue a citation or stop them from being used.   However, I contacted the DOW on this issue and at least one official said "no way, they cannot be used and that all  power bait is illegal. " As I stated in a previous post, except for obvious infractions (power eggs)  this law will be un-enforcable. Even the DOW is confused. regards, Mike Miller

Response:

I just heard that the state of Colorado has decided that flies should not use any artificial (synthetic) materials. If it uses such things as foam, it is a bait and not a fly. Any comments about this.

Response:

I just heard that the state of Colorado has decided that flies should not use any artificial (synthetic) materials. If it uses such things as foam, it is a bait and not a fly. Any comments about this.

No Colorado didn’t. I think I’ve heard that F&W is discussing not allowing power bait and other non-natural baits to be fished in the artificals only waters.

Response:

I just heard that the state of Colorado has decided that flies should not use any artificial (synthetic) materials. If it uses such things as foam, it is a bait and not a fly. Any comments about this.

Know any suppliers of barbless *bone* hooks?? — The views expressed are my own and does not represent those of my employer.

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: I just heard that the state of Colorado has decided that flies should not : use any artificial (synthetic) materials. If it uses such things as foam, : it is a bait and not a fly. Any comments about this. Interesting, and really raises some issues.  For example, I’ve fallen in love with the Stimulator this year… it has brought some very large fish to shore.  Why?  Is it a caddis imitation or a stone fly imitation?  I say neither… it’s probably that orange piece in the front of the fly that looks like a Salmon Egg to the fish.  A Stimulator doesn’t closely imitate anything in the water, but sure catches some large fish. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

Response:

The intent of the Colorado’s definition of what constitutes an *artificial* fly or lure was simply to eliminate scented baits, such as  power baits & eggs.  Unfortunately the wording is very confusing and I think the C.D.O.W. doesn’t totallly understand what they have said. It will probably be un – enforceable except for the obvious infractions. It says something like anything less than 1 1/2 inches long cannot be made out of *plastic* or scented material. The question that has come up is what if it is over  1 1/2 inches long  (Berkley Power Tubes for example) or if  it is under 1 1/2inches does this exclude *foam* or even plastic tube jigs (unscented)? And can you add scent to a fly or lure less than 1 1/2 "? regards, Mike Miller – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I just heard that the state of Colorado has decided that flies should not use any artificial (synthetic) materials. If it uses such things as foam, it is a bait and not a fly. Any comments about this.

Response:

(PaulS41846) writes: I just heard that the state of Colorado has decided that flies should not use any artificial (synthetic) materials. If it uses such things as foam, it is a bait and not a fly. Any comments about this.

Does that mean the hook has to be made from a thorn? Steel was synthetic the last time I looked. Don Burns

Response:

(PaulS41846) writes: I just heard that the state of Colorado has decided that flies should not use any artificial (synthetic) materials. If it uses such things as foam, it is a bait and not a fly. Any comments about this.

Oh Yeah! Another reason to simply quit ffing and take up something else (billiards comes immediately to mind….) With all the problems facing the resource, and the sport in general, now the gov is picking at minutea (sp?). The saddest part is that an early and powerful proponent of synth materials for flies, John Betts, lives in Denver. If there is some percieved ecological threat with these materials why didn’t they look at those GD’d foam bobbers (strike indicators) that litter our streams too! Does that mean the hook has to be made from a thorn? Steel was synthetic the last time I looked.

Good Point <G!  Sounds like our politicians are doing their best to screw everything up as usual.  Like with the Rimm Report! </chaz (not Sue)

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P I just heard that the state of Colorado has decided that flies should not P use any artificial (synthetic) materials. If it uses such things as foam, P it is a bait and not a fly. Any comments about this. Hmm, if it isn’t or hasn’t been alive and uses only sight attraction, not smell to attract fish, and you can cast it with a fly rod, that’s close enough to a fly for me. Besides, if this passes, will enforcement be forced to looking through people’s fly boxes to make sure that there is no crystal flash? What about nylon thread, rayon floss, or heavens to gimbles, micro fibbets tailing! Sounds like missplaced emphasis IMHO.      Trey Monroe

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Power Bait on the frying pan river…? Lucky Lou’s…? Getcha thumped…that’s fer sure… In practice, there is a VERY fine line (no pun intended) between a Glo-Bug and a Lucky Lou.  Or a Pittendrigh foam after a little fish slime and power bait.  Or a san Juan worm and a red wriggler.  It’s all in our heads man, that one is somehow better then the other…isn’t it ?   What is the difference between a Kastmaster and a Zonker ? TimW (In case you think that I miss the point….) I have retrieved slimy GloBugs from the gills and gullets of bleeding trout as deeply as shore chucked pautzkees. I have had wooly worms and buggers kill fish.  I have sent small trout flying into the bushes on a #14 adams on an ‘overzealous strike’.  Fish die man no matter WHAT you hook ‘em on…

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Al, I still can’t seem to get to the new group from IBM’s ADVANTIS network so other folks may be having similar problems with their news servers. Hopefully they will all be ironed out soon. — Charlie Choc Charles E. Choc & Associates Computer Telephony Consulting Marietta Georgia, USA Hi Charlie, Sorry to hear you network is not carrying the tying newsgroup – at least I assume this is the problem. My last look at the group indicated about 75 messages on the current screen. Maybe a call or email to your network server would be in order. Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

That’s all it’ll take.  The ROFFT group is definitely going. Bob Lundy IWFFC Mississauga, ON http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/rlundy

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Hi Sandy. Keep plugging away, the group is being accessed by UK readers. Damn good stuff too. I’ve currently got something like 175 news items stored. E.mail your provider and tell them of your problems.                                        Read you soon. Dave T. , I am having trouble accessing the fly tying group through America On Line. , It will show up for a while and then disappear. When I search for it-it’s , gone.  No one seems to be posting there. I keep loggin on, but no new messages appear. We need a few people to log on to rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.tying, with something (anything) to say!

– dave tait

Response:

Hi Sandy. Keep plugging away, the group is being accessed by UK readers. Damn good stuff too. I’ve currently got something like 175 news items stored. E.mail your provider and tell them of your problems.

Just to clarify things… The newsgroup is indeed globally created and has been receiving quite a bit of traffic.  I was out of town for the weekend and when I returned there were 96 new messages. If you still can’t access the group the problem is with your provider.  Some service provides don’t "auto-create" new newsgroups and you’ll specifically have to ask them to add the group to their subscribed list.  In any case, there isn’t anything that anyone that is reading this newsgroup can do about the local problem. — John Fereira Isis Distributed Systems – Ithaca, NY

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This newsgroup still doesn’t exist…for me.  Is it active?

:   : , I am having trouble accessing the fly tying group through America On Line. : , It will show up for a while and then disappear. When I search for it-it’s : , gone. :   :   No one seems to be posting there. I keep loggin on, but no new messages : appear. We need a few people to log on to rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.tying, : with something (anything) to say! — Laboratory for Applied Logic    Dept. of Computer Science University of Idaho             www: http://www.cs.uidaho.edu/~foster —–BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK—– Version: 2.6.2 mQCNAzDtvLEAAAEEAKAC21G2Be0K0DMgjLpxrwLmsYfCz8rWcfgyABjr3Ryfk1dO nV7fFFpUF3xohR7die+/B2V9oqRQzTLeSF2ECKlsTY/yUyw2kn+P2ju1umh4Fwzd cVTvc+H69q1+Ft3kmw/PE0Pan+g0PUGGJ43stw3q4OgBHdixbRd/f9giJFDxAAUR tCZKYW1lcyBBLiBGb3N0ZXIgPGZvc3RlckBjcy51aWRhaG8uZWR1PokAlQMFEDD8 ReEXf3/YIiRQ8QEBFrAD/2AFuRWcD/3MENC3qJMC/Or1qxknjkK7Uv+TDf2LHPOY GHBbG9PyWuXQ8of0Dd+JYwf/tzlO9Yk1s1zTdikfriak21FW0bCokxDIhA3myppZ IZDWVA9CyvDYHuP5Ii1NkBvocab813JzDLZA+0iVN5sebGb9zSXR4Za47hlriHeP =RDHK —–END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK—–

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I’m unable to find this group either.  Address again?  The one I got a week ago just doesn’t connect, at least on my server… — Ken Brown Satis elequontiae, sapientiae parum.

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I’m unable to find this group either.  Address again?  The one I got a week ago just doesn’t connect, at least on my server… — Ken Brown Satis elequontiae, sapientiae parum.

rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.tying is what I have been trying to join. — Charlie Choc Charles E. Choc & Associates Computer Telephony Consulting Marietta Georgia, USA

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Al, I still can’t seem to get to the new group from IBM’s ADVANTIS network so other folks may be having similar problems with their news servers. Hopefully they will all be ironed out soon. — Charlie Choc Charles E. Choc & Associates Computer Telephony Consulting Marietta Georgia, USA

Hi Charlie, Sorry to hear you network is not carrying the tying newsgroup – at least I assume this is the problem. My last look at the group indicated about 75 messages on the current screen. Maybe a call or email to your network server would be in order. Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

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, I am having trouble accessing the fly tying group through America On Line. , It will show up for a while and then disappear. When I search for it-it’s , gone.  No one seems to be posting there. I keep loggin on, but no new messages appear. We need a few people to log on to rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.tying, with something (anything) to say!

Something is wrong on your end.  My site did not add the group until it was officially released, but since then (a week or so) there have been around a dozen messages a day on it. Dave

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Hi Vic, I’ve been corresponding through the tying newsgroup with several folks who use AOL and they seem to have no problem. Anyway the tying group seems to be taking off. Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

Al, I still can’t seem to get to the new group from IBM’s ADVANTIS network so other folks may be having similar problems with their news servers. Hopefully they will all be ironed out soon. — Charlie Choc Charles E. Choc & Associates Computer Telephony Consulting Marietta Georgia, USA

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I am having trouble accessing the fly tying group through America On Line. It will show up for a while and then disappear. When I search for it-it’s gone. Is this a common problem for AOL members or am I doing something stupid again? Vic’s Fly-By-Night Too much time spent tying Not enough fishing

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Hi Vic, I’ve been corresponding through the tying newsgroup with several folks who use AOL and they seem to have no problem. Anyway the tying group seems to be taking off. Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

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, I am having trouble accessing the fly tying group through America On Line. , It will show up for a while and then disappear. When I search for it-it’s , gone.   No one seems to be posting there. I keep loggin on, but no new messages appear. We need a few people to log on to rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.tying, with something (anything) to say!

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Question:

The original remark may be humorous to a man, but not to many of the women who may be exploring fly fishing on the internet. This type of attitude and mind set on the stream or anywhere else is not always comfortable to everyone.

I dont’s intend to speak for everyone nor to make everyone comfortable.  All I know is that I only read one response (yours) that took offense at my little joke.  I know that there are quite a few women that read this group and none of them seemed to take offense at it either.  I did, however, see at least one response from a woman that takes offense that the industry seems intent on selling equipment "designed" specifically for women.  I contend that trying to turn flyfishing into a non-gender neutral sport is more damaging then my little joke could ever be.  I’d also like to believe that a sense of humor is a gender neutral attribute as well. — John Fereira Isis Distributed Systems – Ithaca, NY

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The original remark may be humorous to a man, but not to many of the women who may be exploring fly fishing on the internet. This type of attitude and mind set on the stream or anywhere else is not always comfortable to everyone.

Uh Oh, someone’s going to save us all from the evils of politically incorrectness.  Lighten up. Jerry Cobb Nashville, TN

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Lighten up?…NO I DON’T THINK SO….saying something like tits on the grips is not funny, it’s not mature, and it doesn’t belong here.

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Seems to be any rod that can be taken apart has a male AND a female end!

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 guess some women just, want to be "Fashion Barbie"…

I’d like to point out that women have been less than pleased with the manufacturers who have tried to make them into "Fashion Barbie."   It has to be the most negative comments I’ve hear at women’s flyfishing club meeting.  Most, being conservationists, are into greens and browns and wouldn’t be caught dead in pink or purple on a stream.

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You ought to see what has happened to the diving equipment industry. All these wild colors for wet suits, fins, masks, snorkles, tanks, regulators, knives, gauges, bc’s. You’re supposed to be color co- ordinated for the fish! An then you go down…..guess what happens to all those colors at 80 feet? Yup, unless you have a strobe flash on all that fancy equipment, it all looks the same.  :) What you are seeing in ffing equipment is the same thing except it doesn’t go away when it goes into the woods. Bees and yellow- jackets do like yellow and pink, though. :OOO– Bill Fashion plate of leftover GI olive drab equipment…..

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The original remark may be humorous to a man, but not to many of the women who may be exploring fly fishing on the internet. This type of attitude and mind set on the stream or anywhere else is not always comfortable to everyone.

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Your remark regarding women’s rods possibly having breasts is rather ignorant…one would like to believe that even you would see that there is no place for that sort of comment in the fly fishing community. Good grief, are you suggesting that the "fly fishing community" is humorless? You know, now that I consider a good protion of the posts

Sexism, bigotry, and general boorishness is NOT considered humor in a public place.  This is a public forum, not the locker room.  Some humor will always be appropriate in the locker room and nowhere else.  It might serve some of you well to learn when and where such humor is appropriate. —— Mike Tucker-  The Virtual Flyshop Web: http://www.flyshop.com Phone: 970/225-6445

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The largest diameter grip I ever made on a fly rod was for a woman. The lady in question had tendonitus (sp?) in her hand and the small diameter grips on her factory made rods made it much worse. After using the rod I built her, she came back and had me replace the grips on all of her rods. Trying to generalize by gender is, IMNSHO, Bullsh*t. — Phil Koenig Manhattan Custom Tackle Ltd. http://fishdoc.com./ "I’m the boss,so WHATEVER I say is OK"

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Your remark regarding women’s rods possibly having breasts is rather ignorant…one would like to believe that even you would see that there is no place for that sort of comment in the fly fishing community.

Oh give me a break.  It was a joke, actually one I stole from George Carlin from his observation in describing a brand of womens cigarettes. I agree with the other person that mentioned that creating a flyrod for women is just a bit insulting.  Flyfishing is as a gender neutral sport as you can get and I don’t understand why people are trying to turn it into something otherwise.  Actually, I do.  Equipment manufacturers are just trying to sell more merchandise.  Women step into their waders the same way I do and can fart around on the stream as well as the next guy. — John Fereira Isis Distributed Systems – Ithaca, NY

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sounds like hype to me…a little sand paper will make the grip smaller…I can almost live with the mauve vest, and the burgandy waders, but this idea that fishing has to be *marketed* to women seems like an insult to women to me.  When Orvis says "here you go women, a flyrod just for you", they sound as if they are saying all our other rods are for men and not for you. It’s a nothing but an insulting gimmick in my mind DAMN RIGHT, Craig.. All Orvis did was put on a smaller grip..Like ALL women have little hands (like Frenchmen;)). I don’t think so!!!! If I can handle a SAGE 9′8Wt .. and 7+" of real man;).. like most REAL outdoors women can.. and have done for years…It is down right insulting! It’s like Walker says,"A cash flow runs through it". By the way, I have brown waders and a green vest, I look like a cute little tree on the stream,(stealth…it’s an Art!); not like "Barney". I guess some women just, want to be "Fashion Barbie"…

Who knows.  Maybe there will be a market for "Catskill Barbie" and "Catskill Ken". I personally want to catch fish..that’s why it’s called fishing….that’s why I’m out there, and none of my equipment has a cute little white "O" on it!! ….and NO,John F. the rods don’t have little breasts on them..the grips are still the basic "penis" shape, they have always been… Tickles, &"Bear "hugs for Charley

And as someone pointed out awhile back,  "queer" flyfishers like to hold the rod with the other hand because it feels like someone else is holding it. In flyfishing size doesn’t matter. — John Fereira Isis Distributed Systems – Ithaca, NY

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Your remark regarding women’s rods possibly having breasts is rather ignorant…one would like to believe that even you would see that there is no place for that sort of comment in the fly fishing community.

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Sounds like hype to me…a little sand paper will make the grip smaller…I can almost live with the mauve vest, and the burgandy waders, but this idea that fishing has to be *marketed* to women seems like an insult to women to me.  When Orvis says "here you go women, a flyrod just for you", they sound as if they are saying all our other rods are for men and not for you. It’s a nothing but an insulting gimmick in my mind

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Your remark regarding women’s rods possibly having breasts is rather ignorant…one would like to believe that even you would see that there is no place for that sort of comment in the fly fishing community.

Good grief, are you suggesting that the "fly fishing community" is humorless? You know, now that I consider a good protion of the posts to this group you may be right. It seems that the computerized fly fisherman spending time on this group are endowed with an excess of selfimportance and no fun whatsoever. How about we all take a giant step back and a look at the big picture. We are really just a small, insignificant piece of that picture.  Just enjoy you days astream and not make it into more than it is – fishing.

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Sounds like hype to me…a little sand paper will make the grip smaller…I can almost live with the mauve vest, and the burgandy waders, but this idea that fishing has to be *marketed* to women seems like an insult to women to me.  When Orvis says "here you go women, a flyrod just for you", they sound as if they are saying all our other rods are for men and not for you. It’s a nothing but an insulting gimmick in my mind

DAMN RIGHT, Craig.. All Orvis did was put on a smaller grip..Like ALL women have little hands (like Frenchmen;)). I don’t think so!!!! If I can handle a SAGE 9′8Wt .. and 7+" of real man;).. like most REAL outdoors women can.. and have done for years…It is down right insulting! It’s like Walker says,"A cash flow runs through it". By the way, I have brown waders and a green vest, I look like a cute little tree on the stream,(stealth…it’s an Art!); not like "Barney". I guess some women just, want to be "Fashion Barbie"…I personally want to catch fish..that’s why it’s called fishing….that’s why I’m out there, and none of my equipment has a cute little white "O" on it!! ….and NO,John F. the rods don’t have little breasts on them..the grips are still the basic "penis" shape, they have always been… Tickles, &"Bear "hugs for Charley …..N.

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.Your remark regarding women’s rods possibly having breasts is rather ignorant…one would like to believe that even you would see that there is no place for that sort of comment in the fly fishing community.

First Day being a P.C. Cop in Owl Creek…Huh? Honey, if you think John’s comment was ignorant..maybe you should haul your ass over to R.O.F.F.PC ONLY!!! or R.O.F.F.H. (humorless);…  (Tim, these weren’t on your list…please add.) Some of us aren’t PC on the P.C., but don’t worry, after we die, we will burn in Hell….Remember, life’s a bitch, and 7X tippet breaks….. Tickles;) …N.  

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(PWullenweb) writes: A few brands offer a women’s version (e.g. Orvis’ Mary Orvis Marbury), but I’m not sure if there is a significant or logical reason to go with those other than the lighter weight.

Th only difference between the Orvis "MOM" rod and the Orvis "Trout" rod is the handle.  Both are 8 ft. 6 wt. fullflex rods made out of the same blank.  The MOM rod has a handle that has been turned down for smaller hands.   You would be best served by casting the appropriate rods for the conditions you will fish until you find one you like, and if you want a smaller handle on it, any custom rod maker can turn the handle smaller for just a few $.  Size and weight is not a problem. All three of my kids started with 8 1/2 to 9  foot rods when they were between 9 and 11 years old.                                                            Dan Dan Gracia                                                               Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

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Hi Pluck, The ‘womens rod’ is a silly idea. I don’t believe that a rods purpose or application changes with gender. The rods purpose is to cast a line and play a fish. Seems as silly as a ’soft periwinkle’ fishing vest. My ideas on rods are governed by the fact that I build bamboo but for trout a 7 1/2 ft 4 or 5 in a fast action is a good place to start. For smallmouth bass I woul choose an 8ft parabolic action rod for a  5/6 weight. Good fishing, A.J. Thramer

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I’m new to fly fishing and am looking to buy a rod.  A few brands offer a women’s version (e.g. Orvis’ Mary Orvis Marbury), but I’m not sure if there is a significant or logical reason to go with those other than the lighter weight.  I’d like to make this rod somewhat of an "all arounder", at least for the present.  Most of the time I’ll be on a small upstate NY lake, fishing from shore or in a boat for panfish, trout, as well as smallmouth and largemouth bass.  I’d like though to be able to take this rod to fish in some nearby streams.  Info on length, line weight and/or model would be appreciated.  Thanks in advance. Puck Wullenweber Ithaca, NY

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Pluck, Women can fly fish better then men and its not the rod!! I suggest a week vacation in July, Aug. or Sept at the Hawley MT. Ranch, where you can Fly Fish, ride horese,hike or just read a book, Its just 25 miles north of Yellowstone Park.   We do a lot of things other than fishing. Just ask!!! BBlewett

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I’m new to fly fishing and am looking to buy a rod.  A few brands offer a women’s version (e.g. Orvis’ Mary Orvis Marbury), but I’m not sure if there is a significant or logical reason to go with those other than the lighter weight.  I’d like to make this rod somewhat of an "all arounder", at least for the present.  Most of the time I’ll be on a small upstate NY lake, fishing from shore or in a boat for panfish, trout, as well as smallmouth and largemouth bass.  I’d like though to be able to take this rod to fish in some nearby streams.  Info on length, line weight and/or model would be appreciated.  Thanks in advance. Puck Wullenweber Ithaca, NY

I think lighter weight is one critical factor, the other being the size of the grip. Rods not designed for women may have grips that are larger than you are comfortable with (depending of course on whether you have large hands.) If you can find a comfortable grip you can use it – most quality rods are pretty light anyways.

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The possible difference with woman’s rods would be in the grip.  Possibly smaller than normal.  I would suspect that it is generally hype and marketing.  Try both and let me know.   For suggestions for a rod, I would suggest a 5 or 6 weight.  You are asking a lot for a rod to do all you want it to do and still be fun.   I lean towards the 5wt for the fun factor with trout and panfish.  You would have to use small poppers & deerhair bugs with the 5 wt due to the wind resistance.  Also, make sure the rod is 9′. If your starting out you’ll ask for 1 rod to do it all.  After a few years thought, you’ll own about 4 rods (trust me, I’ve been there)!

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I’m new to fly fishing and am looking to buy a rod.  A few brands offer a women’s version (e.g. Orvis’ Mary Orvis Marbury), but I’m not sure if there is a significant or logical reason to go with those other than the lighter weight.

<snip Hi, My recommendation would be for you to locate a reputable local dealer and cast as many rods as possible in your price range. The rod that ends up working the best for you may or may not be a women’s version. I think it’s much more important how the fly rod works than what it says on the label. I hope this helps,   Alan.   Alan Barnard   Kiene’s Fly Shop   Sacramento, California   WWW Fly Tyer   http://www.ns.net/~barnard

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Pluck, Women can fly fish better then men and its not the rod!! I suggest a week vacation in July, Aug. or Sept at the Hawley MT. Ranch, where you can Fly Fish, ride horese,hike or just read a book, Its just 25 miles north of Yellowstone Park.   We do a lot of things other than fishing. Just ask!!!

Womens fly rods?  What, do they have little breasts on them or something? Just to clarify a couple of things.  The name was "Puck", not "Pluck". Since I also live in Ithaca I know that we can flyfish (a five minute walk for me to the nearest stream from my front door), ride horses (there’s a B&B place about 1000′ down the road of me that is a horse ranch), hike (across my driveway and 100′ in the other direction from the B&B are trailheads which go into a wildlife reserve, and I can read a book just about anywhere.  I’ll let you sleep on my couch for half of what your ranch charges. — John Fereira Isis Distributed Systems – Ithaca, NY

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Question:

I have updated my homepages with more fly patterns, info about the 20th Canadian Fly Fishing Forum, and links to TU and the Credit Valley Conservation Authority.  Have fun. Bob Lundy IWFFC Mississauga, ON

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I have updated my homepages with more fly patterns, info about the 20th Canadian Fly Fishing Forum, and links to TU and the Credit Valley Conservation Authority.  Have fun. Bob Lundy IWFFC Mississauga, ON

brendan

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I have updated my homepages with more fly patterns, info about the 20th Canadian Fly Fishing Forum, and links to TU and the Credit Valley Conservation Authority.  Have fun. Bob Lundy IWFFC Mississauga, ON

Sounds great, I’d like to visit. What is the URL? I rented a table at the IWFFC convention a few years ago and enjoyed meeting everyone. Anne Harnack http://home.earthlink.net/~ecoedit/flyprints.htm

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I have updated my homepages with more fly patterns, info about the 20th Canadian Fly Fishing Forum, and links to TU and the Credit Valley Conservation Authority.  Have fun. Bob Lundy IWFFC Mississauga, ON

Bob: What is your site’s address? Stefan M. http://rampages.onramp.net/~smarc

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Ever have one of those days when you find out later you’ve had just too much coffee?  I clearly left off my URL on an earlier post:    http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/rlundy/ Sorry about that… Bob Lundy IWFFC Mississauga, ON

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Question:

M. Gades) writes: I’ve been kicking this idea around for a while and I think it could

be SOME TEXT DELETED So, where can we find your www home page? -tgades

RESPONSE: I understand your doubts howerer, I do not have a home page.  While I admit that I am a business, I am also a fisherman.  My educational background is in communication and I’d like to do some things for the NET. When the time comes for me to create a page, my page would still have to bear up to the scrutiny of the members of the Newsgroups.  I intend to make sure that voting is carried out by a third party like other CFV’s in the groups.  This is not motivated by greed!!!  

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I’ve been kicking this idea around for a while and I think it could be interesting.  What I propose is a series of awards voted on by the fishing newsgroup community to both recognize and influence the WWW and FTP developers to create more and better information for us – The Fishermen.

Good idea – go for it! You talk as if there is some seperate group of people we are dependent on to create WWW sites, but all the fishing sites I know of are fisherpersons’s personal work. That is the beauty (and nuisance) of WWW – it doesn’t take a multimillion$ corporation to create and broadcast work. Because what you’re seeing doesn’t go through any committee approval process, there’s quite a bit of variance in peoples’ works.  If you have funding to give some awards you can perhaps inspire people to create works more to your liking – tell us what you’d like to give us a little time before the voting starts. The Virtual Fly Shop that Mike Tucker has put together has a good directory to other fishing sites. It lists all the sites that Mike has read about here and on the listserver.  I don’t have the URL handy but it is posted here on rec.outdoors.fishing.fly often. If you have an idea, put a few hours into learning HTML and get started. I was able to learn enough and make my site in a weekend with the NCSA Simple HTML editor for Hypercard/Mac. If you don’t use Macintosh your timing couldn’t be better; I hear that windows PCs can now do graphics and there are free HTML editors available for them too.  ;) If you need someone to host it and cannot find an affordable site, let me know and I can put you in contact.   Mark Vinsel Visit my gallery: http://www.lanminds.com/local/vinnie/gallery.HTML Also while your there, check out the ProArts Eastbay Open Studios web site: http://www.lanminds.com/local/proarts.html (I didn’t make this but it was my idea and I’m damn proud of it)

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AMI News has created a centralized source of outdoor information that includes links to various fishing pages. As a news organization we are trying to find fishing conditions from around the world along with other interesting fishing information that appeals to a wide range of readers.   We invite you to submit any and all web sites for consideration. There is NO CHARGE to link. We also invite any fishing site to link with the AMI Rec Network. Take a look: http.//www.aminews.com/ami Thanks, Rob Brown Webmaster – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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Take a look: http.//www.aminews.com/ami

My netscape reports no DNS entry to be found for www.aminews.com.    

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I’d like to submit my homepage.  It is relatively new, but I will be doing lots of work on it over the next few weeks.  I focus on flyfishing and I live and fish mostly in Oregon, but fish often in Idaho, and take trips to Washington, California, Montana, just got back from the Green River in Utah, and a Red fish excursion to New Orleans.   http://www.teleport.com/~anthonyn thanks, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – AMI News has created a centralized source of outdoor information that includes links to various fishing pages. As a news organization we are trying to find fishing conditions from around the world along with other interesting fishing information that appeals to a wide range of readers.   We invite you to submit any and all web sites for consideration. There is NO CHARGE to link. We also invite any fishing site to link with the AMI Rec Network. Take a look: http.//www.aminews.com/ami Thanks, Rob Brown Webmaster

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I’ve been kicking this idea around for a while and I think it could be interesting.  What I propose is a series of awards voted on by the fishing newsgroup community to both recognize and influence the WWW and FTP developers to create more and better information for us – The Fishermen. It seems like everyday, there is a posting on where to find good WWW information.  This process will serve to organize and rate the various offerings out there and help make the info available to all.  Later, we could possibly create a home page as an index to the best stuff out there. Please confine comment to the newsgroups as I think I would get swamped with E-Mail at this point.  I will be sharing more details of my Idea in a few days but I just want to get discussion going.

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I’ve been kicking this idea around for a while and I think it could be interesting.  What I propose is a series of awards voted on by the fishing newsgroup community to both recognize and influence the WWW and FTP developers to create more and better information for us – The Fishermen. SOME TEXT DELETED

So, where can we find your www home page? -tgades

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