Question:

I should have printed the message, but didn’t.  Someone submitted an exercise where you use the tip of your fly rod and practice casting indoors.  Could that person re-send that message?  I’m new to fly fishing and would like to practice indoors.

This practice method seems to have been proposed first by Lee Wulff about 40 years ago, mainly to teach timing.  Instead of a fly line you use a thickish rope of lightweight wool, such as is used to tie curtains or ornamental parcels, about 10 to 12 feet long.  It works. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

Response:

I should have printed the message, but didn’t.  Someone submitted an exercise where you use the tip of your fly rod and practice casting indoors.  Could that person re-send that message?  I’m new to fly fishing and would like to practice indoors. Thanks and Good Fishing Gary

Response:

Gary, what you do is run thick yarn through the guides of the end of your rod as if it was the actual fly line. Its a good way to begin to understand the principles of casting, for example casting a wide loop as opposed to a narrow loop, that sort of thing. Hope this helps. Kevin – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I should have printed the message, but didn’t.  Someone submitted an exercise where you use the tip of your fly rod and practice casting indoors.  Could that person re-send that message?  I’m new to fly fishing and would like to practice indoors. Thanks and Good Fishing Gary

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Question:

just anwser these questens. how do you cast? how do you tell what line to use? how do you real in? how do you cast back out? what bate should i use? hi from payday8887

Response:

just anwser these questens. how do you cast? how do you tell what line to use? how do you real in? how do you cast back out? what bate should i use? hi from payday8887

Please just go here and read up on it: http://www.myhost.com/flyfishing101/ Good luck. PK

Response:

FINALLY, a helpful response to a perfectly innocent question. How can you guys respond so negatively to a beginner in a sport you care about. Lighten up and pitch in with the training or you’ll end up with another idiot on the bank spin casting. Sniping at a guy’s spelling on the internet, that’s a hoot!

Response:

Don’t get too hung up on form.  Develop some basic techniques and then practice.

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Question:

And rental of self-guided rafts ought to be prohibited.  If an experienced private rafter wants to bring his own boat, fine, but these yahoos who think they know what they’re doing, then get pinned at River’s End and take up private boaters’ time (none of the raft trips — even from the company whose name is on the pinned raft — stop to help) and require ropes across the channel, endangering other users.  Message to private boaters: STOP RESCUING THESE RAFTS!  Rescue the people, ferry them to river left and show them the bicycle trail; they’ll get home safely, and if the dam’ raft companies have to pay their own employees to come out and unpin the suckers, they’ll stop renting them pdq.

I hear where your coming from on this Richard.  And many times I feel the same way.  But, quite a few times I have rented rafts, shredders and duckies and brought people down the L.Yough.  I ahve brough some kids down that could not afford to go if I had not paid for the raft and done it myself.  So I do like the opportunity to be able to rent this equipment.  In the otherhand  I have a relatively large amount of experience on WW and this river. I don’t know what the solution is.  Maybe an amatuer guide license that is good for a five year period? What do RPB’ers say? Dan

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Isn’t swimmers rapid the only place on the lower yough where people intentially go in for a swim?   How many play holes are there on the lower yough?  The answer seems obvious to me.  Let the people that want to swim enjoy the river too and go play in a whole that doesn’t have people swimming through it.

How many? Lots. How many that are anything like swimmers? One. I have never perceived it to be much of a problem.  I guess someone could get hurt, but I bet it is fairly rare.  I don’t think the risk of death or serious injury are significant there. Pete

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Was that meant to be a provocation or just an accidentally stupid comment?

Response:

Isn’t swimmers rapid the only place on the lower yough where people intentially go in for a swim?   How many play holes are there on the lower yough?  The answer seems obvious to me.  Let the people that want to swim enjoy the river too and go play in a whole that doesn’t have people swimming through it.

I find this answer unsatisfying.  It would seem to indicate that the swimmers have more of a claim to the spot than paddlers; I don’t think either should be given a preference, and that they should share the spot.  However, it’s difficult to share it *safely* when swimmers arrive en masse, sans helmets, with no warning.  (Just as it would be difficult to share it safely *if* paddlers didn’t wait their turn, etc.) Given that most boaters are accustomed to waiting in line there anyway, I think just letting them know that swimmers are coming would alleviate much of the potential problem.  But that’s easier said than done. (For those who don’t know the Lower Yough: Swimmer’s is *the* preferred spot for a number of reasons: it’s roughly halfway through the trip and makes a good spot to play as well as to have lunch and watch others; it’s a riverwide shallow-entry hole which is easy to get into and not too hard to get out of; and probably most importantly, it’s followed by some waves and a pool but not the usual piles of boulders, making recovery of boaters, boats, and equipment easy.  For a lot of paddlers, it’s the first hole of any size that they find themselves in, with friends waiting below to pick them up if they goof, and others encouraging them from the bank.  It is the only hole with all of these features (that I’m aware of) on the Lower Yough.) —Rsk Rich Kulawiec

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When a kayaker is playing in Swimmers, it is nearly impossible to see a human head and life jacket bob by (bob by out of control)  The question is then :  Is it safe for a person to intentionally jump in the water in front of a spinning kayak and continue downstream toward that kayak, virtually invisible and out of control?  Of course that is not safe.   Therefore, this should not be encouraged by rafting companies. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Since all this discussion is going on about raft guides and kayakers, I thought I would bring up a similar topic. As a raft guide and as a kayaker I see a problem about to happen and I dont think the finger needs to be pointed as to whose fault it is but instead how can it be fixed. Problem On the Lower Yough(PA) there is a rapid called Swimmers Rapid.  It has a great surf hole.  In the summer this place will get so crowded with kayakers that the line will be 10 deep.  This is also a great spot for raft companies to unload their guests and allow them to walk back up and swim through the rapid.  First off, the customers do not wear helmets on the Lower Yough. Keep in mind kayakers are going in and out of this hole playing and surfing while people are swimming through it.  I think it is only a matter of time before some kayaker accidentilly hits a swimmer in the head with his kayak and they go unconscious and drown before they can get them out of the water. I know I dont want to be that kayaker it would be tough living with that the rest of my life. I would like to hear some suggestions as to what could possible be done to prevent this situation.  Remember it is not who is at fault the raft companies or the kayakers but instead what can be done. Isn’t swimmers rapid the only place on the lower yough where people intentially go in for a swim?   How many play holes are there on the lower yough?  The answer seems obvious to me.  Let the people that want to swim enjoy the river too and go play in a whole that doesn’t have people swimming through it. Personally, I think the AWA needs to get involved with the companies and maybe agree on some kind of policy. What kind of policy can the AWA enforce for someone that wants to swim in the river?   Suppose that hole was the best flyfishing spot on the river and flyfishers had to wade to get to it.  Would you propose a "policy" to keep flyfishers from enjoying the river as well? John Fereira

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Paul – Your situation is very different than the Lower Yough.  I have no problem with *guided* raft trips; it’s the unguided ones, that OC1 says to leave the rafts hanging.  Help the people – leave the rafts.  Unfortunately, it’s cheaper to rent an unguided raft for the customer, and probably more profitable for the rafting company than the guided trips.  I like the idea of making these unguided rentals more costly for both sides. – Mothra  (aka Kathy Streletzky) "No man can enter the same river twice,for the second time, it is not the same river he is not the same man. – Anonymous" Acutally by Heracleitus of Ephesus (thanks, Retendokid) via a Dinty Moore short story        

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WHAT ANOTHER BUREAUCRATIC LICENSE? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – And rental of self-guided rafts ought to be prohibited.  If an experienced private rafter wants to bring his own boat, fine, but these yahoos who think they know what they’re doing, then get pinned at River’s End and take up private boaters’ time (none of the raft trips — even from the company whose name is on the pinned raft — stop to help) and require ropes across the channel, endangering other users.  Message to private boaters: STOP RESCUING THESE RAFTS!  Rescue the people, ferry them to river left and show them the bicycle trail; they’ll get home safely, and if the dam’ raft companies have to pay their own employees to come out and unpin the suckers, they’ll stop renting them pdq. I hear where your coming from on this Richard.  And many times I feel the same way.  But, quite a few times I have rented rafts, shredders and duckies and brought people down the L.Yough.  I ahve brough some kids down that could not afford to go if I had not paid for the raft and done it myself.  So I do like the opportunity to be able to rent this equipment.  In the otherhand  I have a relatively large amount of experience on WW and this river. I don’t know what the solution is.  Maybe an amatuer guide license that is good for a five year period? What do RPB’ers say? Dan

Response:

Another brilliant suggestion by OC1: STOP RESCUING THESE RAFTS!  Rescue the people, ferry them to river left and show them the bicycle trail; they’ll get home safely, and if the dam’ raft companies have to pay their own employees to come out and unpin the suckers, they’ll stop renting them

I don’t know if I’d go so far as to say brilliant.  The situation up here is different, in that the most rafts I ever been passed by in one day is about six, and ALL the commercial companies put guides in their rafts.  (Actually there are other companies that will rent rafts, but they’re not right at the river, since there isn’t much market for them. They have to be in a city, and cater to people going to different rivers.) Notwithstanding that, if I ran across a pinned raft, I’d probably give them a hand, even if just to practise my own rescue skills. Now, if I were running into pinned rafts every day, I’d probably run out of the need for practice, and follow OC1’s advice.  Having said that, I don’t think it would make any difference on a river like the Yough.  If the raft companies had to go out and rescue their rafts, they’d just start charging a rescue deposit.  You pay an extra $100 when you rent your raft, and if you return it all in one piece, you get the money back.  If the company has to send someone to retrieve it, you don’t.  Would such a deposit have an effect on people’s safety?  Would they try harder to avoid trouble (I doubt it), or would they risk themselves unnecessarily in the event they do get their raft pinned (possible)? -Paul

Response:

Another brilliant suggestion by OC1: STOP RESCUING THESE RAFTS!  Rescue the people, ferry them to river left and show them the bicycle trail; they’ll get home safely, and if the dam’ raft companies have to pay their own employees to

come out and unpin the suckers, they’ll stop renting them – Mothra  (aka Kathy Streletzky) "No man can enter the same river twice,for the second time, it is not the same river he is not the same man. – Anonymous" Acutally by Heracleitus of Ephesus (thanks, Retendokid) via a Dinty Moore short story        

Response:

Isn’t swimmers rapid the only place on the lower yough where people intentially go in for a swim?   How many play holes are there on the lower yough?  The answer seems obvious to me.  Let the people that want to swim enjoy the river too and go play in a whole that doesn’t have people swimming through it.

That’s a lot like saying boaters should give up Beat Me Daddy (Jaws) on the Nolichucky, Hellhole on the Ocoee, of Diagonal Ledges on the Lower Gauley.  Swimmers is not merely "the best" playspot on the Lower Yough, it stands head, shoulders, torso, and hips above any other.  Swimmers, incidently, is not "training" or "swimming practice", because the trip is already half over, and the #1 raft-flipping rapid is the one that leads into Swimmers (Swimmers was named by the raft companies, BTW, but I have often wondered if it wasn’t named for the unintendo swimmers that flip at Dimple?) What kind of policy can the AWA enforce for someone that wants to swim in the river?   Suppose that hole was the best flyfishing spot on the river and flyfishers had to wade to get to it.  Would you propose a "policy" to keep flyfishers from enjoying the river as well?

The post you reply to, John, is not proposing banning swimmers from the site.  The poster, Joe Hatcher, is a raft guide for Pete’s sake, and he is asking for suggestions for a safe solution to the problem he perceives, such that everyone can continue to enjoy that spot without any injuries. Joe, I’d say (and I’ve said everytime I see rafters flying out of their boats and flushing under Dimple Rock) that the solution is a helmet law.  I don’t know if the raft companies charge extra rental fees for helmets, but I believe they do for wetsuits.  ALL that stuff ought to be provided — reguired, except for wetsuits in July and August — to every customer. And rental of self-guided rafts ought to be prohibited.  If an experienced private rafter wants to bring his own boat, fine, but these yahoos who think they know what they’re doing, then get pinned at River’s End and take up private boaters’ time (none of the raft trips — even from the company whose name is on the pinned raft — stop to help) and require ropes across the channel, endangering other users.  Message to private boaters: STOP RESCUING THESE RAFTS!  Rescue the people, ferry them to river left and show them the bicycle trail; they’ll get home safely, and if the dam’ raft companies have to pay their own employees to come out and unpin the suckers, they’ll stop renting them pdq. — Richard Hopley, concise and to the point, as always. OC-1; Rockville, Maryland, USA, BBM; (301) 330-8265 Monocacy Canoe Club, Blue Ridge Voyageurs, Canoe Cruisers’ Ass’n, Greater Baltimore CC, Coastal Canoeists, Rhode Island Canoe/Kayak Ass’n, Carolina CC, Tennessee Scenic Rivers Ass’n, ACA, and AWA Note 1: To send me eMail, remove ".NoSpam" from my address Note 2: Sometimes I just forget to type that smiley-face emoticon. Note 3: Nothing really matters except Boats, Sex, and Rock’n'Roll.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (For those who don’t know the Lower Yough: Swimmer’s is *the* preferred spot for a number of reasons: it’s roughly halfway through the trip and makes a good spot to play as well as to have lunch and watch others; it’s a riverwide shallow-entry hole which is easy to get into and not too hard to get out of; and probably most importantly, it’s followed by some waves and a pool but not the usual piles of boulders, making recovery of boaters, boats, and equipment easy.  For a lot of paddlers, it’s the first hole of any size that they find themselves in, with friends waiting below to pick them up if they goof, and others encouraging them from the bank.  It is the only hole with all of these features (that I’m aware of) on the Lower Yough.) —Rsk Rich Kulawiec

Rich is right!  This is a hole that is probably one of the best, anyplace, to teach boaters how to sit up and control thier boats in a side surf.  I can body surf into the hole and stand up in the foam pile.  I can stand there and have less experienced boaters paddle into the hole, grab hold of them and stabilize them.  I can then instruct them on how to sit up properly and how to place thier paddle and how to work to the river right seam and use it to spin and switch paddle size. If they go over, I can many times right them quickly and stabilize them and give them a chance to breath and feel relaxed.  They then can choose to try it again or go back to the eddy.  I stand in there and help people in Duckies get 360’s when it is there first time in a river.  My son at 13, could go in without a paddle and be anyplace he wanted in the hole, and spin whenever he wanted.  Now I don’t let him get in without me there to make it more challenging for him other wise he may become a hole hog.  Can’t allow that.  Just as long as boaters know swimmer are coming and swimmers are wearing helmets, there are no problems with swimmers and boaters in this hole.  Plenty enough room and time for both. Dan

Response:

Problem First off, the customers do not wear helmets on the Lower Yough.

        With all of the extremely stupid regulations that the Peoples Republic of Pennsylvania has for that park (no beer, launch times, water level restrictions), you’d think that helmets would be mandatory.

Response:

I am surprised the raft companies would do this in the first place. Swimming in a river, with current, is always hazardous.  Foot entrapments, hidden strainers and the like are always a possibility. Swimming through a hole also has it’s hazards, surfing kayaks just being one of them.  I am also sure that the insurance companies that insure the raft companies would not be too pleased with the raft companies ‘advising’ customers to swim.

I spend very little time on the Lower Yough, so can’t speak to this particular site, but we have swim spots on the New, Cheat, Upper and Lower Gauley.  Our insurance companies are very aware of the practice and help to provide the guidelines we use when swimming our guests.  As has been discussed in another thread, a controlled and instructed swim in a relatively safe rapid can be a real asset for someone who later finds themselves swimming unexpectedly.  These rapids have all been swum by thousands of raft guests over the years, so any hazards would have presented themselves by now.  Remember that out your way you’re dealing with much colder water, which can be an important factor.  Here it makes sense. Dave Bassage

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To:   Roger Lynn Safety Chair Colorado Whitewater Association Being on the "Safety Chair" of a WW Association, I’m supprised you haven’t heard of or can’t see the benafits of a comercial "guest", or anyone else, swimming a rapid as part of their safety training to prepare for a raft trip.   Of coarse it should be in a controled situation (no kayaks surfing the hole) with prudent safety precautions and with the guests in the proper atire.  I’d suggest; vest, helmet, footwear and any other cloathing that was prudent. I Saw Dave Bassage noted that the water may be colder in Colorado than out East but, I would assume and recomend that guests on a raft trip or anyone boating the river for that matter, should be dressed for a swim anyway. I’m not trying to be rude or "in your face" but, what is the Colorado whitewater Association anyway?  It has to do with boating… right? Your post supprises me as I thought this was a common practice.                                                        Jake " OVER FORTY…… IT’S ALL DOWN RIVER FROM HERE "

Response:

well, now… mebbe a good first step would be to put HELMETS and GUIDES with some of them there raftin’ folk… DUH!!! sheesh! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Since all this discussion is going on about raft guides and kayakers, I thought I would bring up a similar topic. As a raft guide and as a kayaker I see a problem about to happen and I dont think the finger needs to be pointed as to whose fault it is but instead how can it be fixed. Problem On the Lower Yough(PA) there is a rapid called Swimmers Rapid.      It has a great surf hole.  In the summer this place will get so crowded with kayakers that the line will be 10 deep.      This is also a great spot for raft companies to unload their guests and allow them to walk back up and swim through the rapid.      First off, the customers do not wear helmets on the Lower Yough. Keep in mind kayakers are going in and out of this hole playing and surfing while people are swimming through it.  I think it is only a matter of time before some kayaker accidentilly hits a swimmer in the head with his kayak and they go unconscious and drown before they can get them out of the water. I know I dont want to be that kayaker it would be tough living with that the rest of my life. I would like to hear some suggestions as to what could possible be done to prevent this situation.  Remember it is not who is at fault the raft companies or the kayakers but instead what can be done. Personally, I think the AWA needs to get involved with the companies and maybe agree on some kind of policy.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Since all this discussion is going on about raft guides and kayakers, I thought I would bring up a similar topic. As a raft guide and as a kayaker I see a problem about to happen and I dont think the finger needs to be pointed as to whose fault it is but instead how can it be fixed. Problem On the Lower Yough(PA) there is a rapid called Swimmers Rapid.  It has a great surf hole.  In the summer this place will get so crowded with kayakers that the line will be 10 deep.  This is also a great spot for raft companies to unload their guests and allow them to walk back up and swim through the rapid.  First off, the customers do not wear helmets on the Lower Yough. Keep in mind kayakers are going in and out of this hole playing and surfing while people are swimming through it.  I think it is only a matter of time before some kayaker accidentilly hits a swimmer in the head with his kayak and they go unconscious and drown before they can get them out of the water. I know I dont want to be that kayaker it would be tough living with that the rest of my life. I would like to hear some suggestions as to what could possible be done to prevent this situation.  Remember it is not who is at fault the raft companies or the kayakers but instead what can be done.

Isn’t swimmers rapid the only place on the lower yough where people intentially go in for a swim?   How many play holes are there on the lower yough?  The answer seems obvious to me.  Let the people that want to swim enjoy the river too and go play in a whole that doesn’t have people swimming through it. Personally, I think the AWA needs to get involved with the companies and maybe agree on some kind of policy.

What kind of policy can the AWA enforce for someone that wants to swim in the river?   Suppose that hole was the best flyfishing spot on the river and flyfishers had to wade to get to it.  Would you propose a "policy" to keep flyfishers from enjoying the river as well? John Fereira

Response:

Since all this discussion is going on about raft guides and kayakers, I thought I would bring up a similar topic. As a raft guide and as a kayaker I see a problem about to happen and I dont think the finger needs to be pointed as to whose fault it is but instead how can it be fixed. Problem On the Lower Yough(PA) there is a rapid called Swimmers Rapid.  It has a great surf hole.  In the summer this place will get so crowded with kayakers that the line will be 10 deep.  This is also a great spot for raft companies to unload their guests and allow them to walk back up and swim through the rapid.  First off, the customers do not wear helmets on the Lower Yough. Keep in mind kayakers are going in and out of this hole playing and surfing while people are swimming through it.  I think it is only a matter of time before some kayaker accidentilly hits a swimmer in the head with his kayak and they go unconscious and drown before they can get them out of the water. I know I dont want to be that kayaker it would be tough living with that the rest of my life. I would like to hear some suggestions as to what could possible be done to prevent this situation.  Remember it is not who is at fault the raft companies or the kayakers but instead what can be done. Personally, I think the AWA needs to get involved with the companies and maybe agree on some kind of policy.

Response:

Since all this discussion is going on about raft guides and kayakers, I thought I would bring up a similar topic. As a raft guide and as a kayaker I see a problem about to happen and I dont think the finger needs to be pointed as to whose fault it is but instead how can it be fixed.

In reference to our previous post.  We have rude kayakers that screw up to. All groups have problems. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Problem On the Lower Yough(PA) there is a rapid called Swimmers Rapid. It has a great surf hole.  In the summer this place will get so crowded with kayakers that the line will be 10 deep. This is also a great spot for raft companies to unload their guests and allow them to walk back up and swim through the rapid. First off, the customers do not wear helmets on the Lower Yough. Keep in mind kayakers are going in and out of this hole playing and surfing while people are swimming through it.  I think it is only a matter of time before some kayaker accidentilly hits a swimmer in the head with his kayak and they go unconscious and drown before they can get them out of the water. I know I dont want to be that kayaker it would be tough living with that the rest of my life. I would like to hear some suggestions as to what could possible be done to prevent this situation.  Remember it is not who is at fault the raft companies or the kayakers but instead what can be done.

Cooperation. A month or so ago I was at Surfers Rapid on Section 4 of the Chattooga (sc and GA USA)  I was with about 5 other hard boats and we where trying to cartwheel the hole.  A group of rafts came down and they beached.  The customers all got out and stood on the rock.  We played for a minute then I paddled up to the guide.  He asked if we could get in the eddy for a minute to let some of his customers come down.  He sent between 8 and 10 and then we all took a trip in the hole.  He sent the next batch and we got in the hole again.  We took turns and had no problems whatsoever.  If we all realize that we have no more rights to be there than anyone else then thing get along fine.  It is when one group decides they have special rights that problems arise. Scott Bristow – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Personally, I think the AWA needs to get involved with the companies and maybe agree on some kind of policy.

Response:

First off, the customers do not wear helmets on the Lower Yough.

I obviously don’t know the river section but I’m surprised at this. Surely, even on easy water this should be compulsory. No? Jez — "What happened while I was talking to the fish?"

Response:

1) Put helmets on all river users.  This is a bit of a no-brainer.  Big time liability on the part of any rafting company or guide who has clients swim in rapids or into traffic without helmets. 2) Assign a traffic cop/raft guide with a whistle to stand on shore at the play spot and coordinate the use equitable use of the hole.  It works well on the Ottawa.  Again, big time liability for any rafting company or guide who has clients swim into traffic without taking reasonable actions to control the traffic. Richard Culpeper – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Since all this discussion is going on about raft guides and kayakers, I thought I would bring up a similar topic. As a raft guide and as a kayaker I see a problem about to happen and I dont think the finger needs to be pointed as to whose fault it is but instead how can it be fixed. Problem On the Lower Yough(PA) there is a rapid called Swimmers Rapid.  It has a great surf hole.  In the summer this place will get so crowded with kayakers that the line will be 10 deep.  This is also a great spot for raft companies to unload their guests and allow them to walk back up and swim through the rapid.  First off, the customers do not wear helmets on the Lower Yough. Keep in mind kayakers are going in and out of this hole playing and surfing while people are swimming through it.  I think it is only a matter of time before some kayaker accidentilly hits a swimmer in the head with his kayak and they go unconscious and drown before they can get them out of the water. I know I dont want to be that kayaker it would be tough living with that the rest of my life. I would like to hear some suggestions as to what could possible be done to prevent this situation.  Remember it is not who is at fault the raft companies or the kayakers but instead what can be done. Personally, I think the AWA needs to get involved with the companies and maybe agree on some kind of policy.

Response:

On the Lower Yough(PA) there is a rapid called Swimmers Rapid.  It has a great surf hole.  In the summer this place will get so crowded with kayakers that the line will be 10 deep.  This is also a great spot for raft companies

Ten deep is crowded? Man, I’ve been on the Ocoee too much….. Fester

Response:

I would like to hear some suggestions as to what could possible be done to prevent this situation.  Remember it is not who is at fault the raft companies or the kayakers but instead what can be done. Personally, I think the AWA needs to get involved with the companies and maybe agree on some kind of policy.

I am surprised the raft companies would do this in the first place. Swimming in a river, with current, is always hazardous.  Foot entrapments, hidden strainers and the like are always a possibility. Swimming through a hole also has it’s hazards, surfing kayaks just being one of them.  I am also sure that the insurance companies that insure the raft companies would not be too pleased with the raft companies ‘advising’ customers to swim. Just my two cents. Roger Lynn Safety Chair Colorado White Water Association http://www.earthnet.net/~cwwa

Response:

Seems to me it would be tough living with it if I were the Raft guide who let or suggested his or her customers to swim the rapid when there were possible hazzards (kayaks playing in hole) there. My suggestion would be if there were kayaks there, fin someplace else. Not that it’s an ideal situation but, it’s kind of a "right of weight" thing.  Swimmers should avoid contact with kayakers (by not swimming there when kayaks are there, and as their GUIDE, you shouldn’t let them) like kayakers avoid your raft when you come down the rapid.  You don’t wait in the eddy above the rapid till the hole is clear before going down in a raft do you?  I think you figure they’ll get out of my way I have the "right of weight".                                                    Jake " OVER FORTY…… IT’S ALL DOWN RIVER FROM HERE "

Response:

First off, the customers do not wear helmets on the Lower Yough. I obviously don’t know the river section but I’m surprised at this. Surely, even on easy water this should be compulsory. No?

Well, you and I might agree that it should be so, but it’s not. Two of the more popular rivers for whitewater rafting in the eastern USA are here in Pennsylvania: the Lehigh and the (Lower) Youghiogheny. At normal flow levels, the Lehigh is II+, the Yough is III+; both are drop-and-pool rivers and both have an awful lot of boulders in them. (At high water, the Lehigh is easy III, with lots and lots of waves; the Yough starts taking on some IV characteristics and the pools, especially in the first mile, start to disappear.) On the Lehigh, nearly all raft trips that I’ve seen have been accompanied by guides: sometimes in the rafts, sometimes in duckies, often in kayaks. On the Yough, many of the raft trips that I’ve seen have been UNguided. Rafters are given a safety talk, PFD’s and paddles and rafts, and a waterproof "map" of the rapids and sent downstream.  I find this astonishing, given that there are a few places on the Yough that are known to cause safety problems for the untrained and even some of the trained (the undercut at Dimple; the foot entrapment spot in Cucumber). In neither case are they given helmets — I sat below Pipeline on the Lehigh at 2000 CFS a month ago and watched a guide working on a rafter’s head; her hair was a bloody mess, but she seemed to be relatively okay.  Whether the wound came during a swim or from a paddle, or something else, I don’t know — but I think a helmet would have probably prevented it. Contrast this with West Virginia, just to the south, where (unless I’ve had the statute misquoted to me) rafters are required by state law to wear helmets anytime they’re in III or above. No compliance incurs a fine for the rafter, the guide, and the company. I often wnoder what goes through the mind of rafters as they watch us go by.  Do they notice that we look like we know what we’re doing and that *we’re wearing helmets*?  Do they then ask their outfitters the obvious question? On the issue of Swimmers on the Lower Yough, I’ve been concerned about accidentally hitting a swimmer as well, especially because I paddle a slalom boat whose ends are quite pointed and could really hurt somebody.  It would probably help matters a lot if the raft guides (when there *are* guides) would send one of their number down to the hole and coordinate traffic with a counterpart up at the jump rock so that everybody can take their turn. I don’t mind sharing or waiting for my turn; I do mind being put in a situation where I suddenly find that I may be endangering someone even though that’s the last thing I’d ever want to do. —Rsk Rich Kulawiec

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I play at Swimmer Hole on the Lower Yough quite frequently with my children.  I have had my daughter at 6 years old swim through it with me.  We all get into it and body surf it. I do not let my children swim through the rapid without a helmet.  I have been body surfing the hole and had a kayak come in with me.  I was more in the foam and he was about to knock me out of the wave so I grabbed the back of his boat and "seal" slid over him and we both kept on surfing.  no prolbem because we were both wearing protection.  Helmets. I am always amazed how raft companies can send people down without helmets.  Last time I was there (about 4wks ago) I saw some company guide butterfly bandaging some womans head at the bottom of Double Hydraulic Rapid.  She would not have needed that care if she had a helmet.  She would also look nicer without the Frankenstien stitches on her forehead. It irritates me that the Park Service will not let me run Ohiopyle Falls (an easy drop) but will allow hordes of unskilled, inexperienced people treat the Yough like a Disney World Ride ride and not wear the proper safety equipment.  So many times I have pulled families out of messes with my low volume boat, or advised families to get out and scout rapids.  One family with a father, mother, 14 yr son and 12 yr daughter were all over the river.  The daughter and mother were scared silly.  I suggested that they get out and look over Dimple and maybe let the mother and daughter walk.  The father was quite irritated with me.  I think I accidentaly stepped on his realm of power control and machismo. The mother and daughter complained until they let them out and the father and son proceeded to flip the raft on dimple. I want the ability to rent rafts privately at the L. Yough so I can take people down safely and have a good time.  But I am worried that too many people are allowed, and encouraged to get themselves into messes that could result in me loosing the privledge to privately rent a raft.  Half the time it seems like the guided trips (one or two guide rafts, maybe a safety boater kayak with many unguided rafts) that have the most injuries. It is a great river for improving skills for intermediate paddlers and a great place to give people a good whitewater experience.  but you need to wear helmets. Dan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Since all this discussion is going on about raft guides and kayakers, I thought I would bring up a similar topic. As a raft guide and as a kayaker I see a problem about to happen and I dont think the finger needs to be pointed as to whose fault it is but instead how can it be fixed. Problem On the Lower Yough(PA) there is a rapid called Swimmers Rapid.  It has a great surf hole.  In the summer this place will get so crowded with kayakers that the line will be 10 deep.  This is also a great spot for raft companies to unload their guests and allow them to walk back up and swim through the rapid.  First off, the customers do not wear helmets on the Lower Yough. Keep in mind kayakers are going in and out of this hole playing and surfing while people are swimming through it.  I think it is only a matter of time before some kayaker accidentilly hits a swimmer in the head with his kayak and they go unconscious and drown before they can get them out of the water. I know I dont want to be that kayaker it would be tough living with that the rest of my life. I would like to hear some suggestions as to what could possible be done to prevent this situation.  Remember it is not who is at fault the raft companies or the kayakers but instead what can be done. Personally, I think the AWA needs to get involved with the companies and maybe agree on some kind of policy.

Response:

Question:

I WAS A LITTLE DISAPPOINTED AT THE SNOBBY ATTITUDE OF THOSE WHOM I ASKED FOR HELP AND ADVICE.

Maybe if you weren’t YELLING at them, they would have been a little more  friendly. Tip: Eliminate drag. When I take less experienced people there, that is usually the biggest problem I have in getting them to catch fish. You need to mend a lot. That’s one of the reasons you see the people in boats catching more fish (there are other reasons). From a boat, you are higher up, and it is easier to eliminate the drag. Plus, the guide will assist you in this process. Using a longer rod will also help, as you can get a more vertical presentation, but it really takes experience to see and understand this drag thing. Good luck, Bill Schudlich Santa Fe, NM

Response:

I WAS A LITTLE DISAPPOINTED AT THE SNOBBY ATTITUDE OF THOSE WHOM I ASKED FOR HELP AND ADVICE. Maybe if you weren’t YELLING at them, they would have been a little more  friendly. Tip: Eliminate drag.

Are you saying that I should leave my bra in the blazer ? Or just wear it on the inside of my vest ? TimW

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ON LABOR DAY I WAS PRIVILEGED TO FISH THE SAN JUAN RIVER. I AM NOT AN EXPERIENCED FLY RODDER BUT AM ANXIOUS TO LEARN. I WAS A LITTLE DISAPPOINTED AT THE SNOBBY ATTITUDE OF THOSE WHOM I ASKED FOR HELP AND ADVICE. EVERY PERSON AROUND ME WAS CATCHING HUGE FISH, JUST LIKE I READ ABOUT. AT 7:00 IN THE EVENING AFTER TRYING ALL DAY I FINALLY HOOKED A 5 LB RAINBOW. WHAT A THRILL. IS THERE ANYONE OUT THERE WHO IS WILLING TO SHARE THIER METHOD FOR CATCHING THESE FINE FISH? I’M SURE YOU CAN IMAGINE MY DAY OF FRUSTRATION. THE TROUT WERE FEEDING VORACIOUSLY ON EMERGERS AND I FELT THAT MY PRESENTATION WASN’T CORRECT. ANY HELP WOULD BE APPRECIATED. EVEN A GUIDE REFERRAL WOULD HELP ON MY NEXT JOURNEY…JOHN Hi John It would be my guess that you were in a situation where "drag" was causing your fly to not act like a natural insect.  Drag happens when the various currents grab your fly line and leader consequently pulling the fly accross the current.  You will need to learn a little about reading the water, what the water does to your fly line & fly, and how to mend to compensate for the waters action on your line. As a guide here in Montana getting inexperienced people to recognize drag is a major part of my job.  Explaining it in person can be a challenge, trying to do so over the net is almost impossible.  I suggest you get with your local fly shop and arrange for lessons on reading the water and how to get a "drag free float."  OR you could join a local fly fishing club and learn from a new friend.  Call the Federation of Fly Fishers at 406-585-7592 for information on a club near you. — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (97 catalog)

EXCELLENT ADVICE! George

Response:

ON LABOR DAY I WAS PRIVILEGED TO FISH THE SAN JUAN RIVER. I AM NOT AN EXPERIENCED FLY RODDER BUT AM ANXIOUS TO LEARN. I WAS A LITTLE DISAPPOINTED AT THE SNOBBY ATTITUDE OF THOSE WHOM I ASKED FOR HELP AND ADVICE. EVERY PERSON AROUND ME WAS CATCHING HUGE FISH, JUST LIKE I READ ABOUT. AT 7:00 IN THE EVENING AFTER TRYING ALL DAY I FINALLY HOOKED A 5 LB RAINBOW. WHAT A THRILL. IS THERE ANYONE OUT THERE WHO IS WILLING TO SHARE THIER METHOD FOR CATCHING THESE FINE FISH? I’M SURE YOU CAN IMAGINE MY DAY OF FRUSTRATION. THE TROUT WERE FEEDING VORACIOUSLY ON EMERGERS AND I FELT THAT MY PRESENTATION WASN’T CORRECT. ANY HELP WOULD BE APPRECIATED. EVEN A GUIDE REFERRAL WOULD HELP ON MY NEXT JOURNEY…JOHN

Hi John It would be my guess that you were in a situation where "drag" was causing your fly to not act like a natural insect.  Drag happens when the various currents grab your fly line and leader consequently pulling the fly accross the current.  You will need to learn a little about reading the water, what the water does to your fly line & fly, and how to mend to compensate for the waters action on your line. As a guide here in Montana getting inexperienced people to recognize drag is a major part of my job.  Explaining it in person can be a challenge, trying to do so over the net is almost impossible.  I suggest you get with your local fly shop and arrange for lessons on reading the water and how to get a "drag free float."  OR you could join a local fly fishing club and learn from a new friend.  Call the Federation of Fly Fishers at 406-585-7592 for information on a club near you. — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (97 catalog)

Response:

ON LABOR DAY I WAS PRIVILEGED TO FISH THE SAN JUAN RIVER. I AM NOT AN EXPERIENCED FLY RODDER BUT AM ANXIOUS TO LEARN. I WAS A LITTLE DISAPPOINTED AT THE SNOBBY ATTITUDE OF THOSE WHOM I ASKED FOR HELP AND ADVICE. EVERY PERSON AROUND ME WAS CATCHING HUGE FISH, JUST LIKE I READ ABOUT. AT 7:00 IN THE EVENING AFTER TRYING ALL DAY I FINALLY HOOKED A 5 LB RAINBOW. WHAT A THRILL. IS THERE ANYONE OUT THERE WHO IS WILLING TO SHARE THIER METHOD FOR CATCHING THESE FINE FISH? I’M SURE YOU CAN IMAGINE MY DAY OF FRUSTRATION. THE TROUT WERE FEEDING VORACIOUSLY ON EMERGERS AND I FELT THAT MY PRESENTATION WASN’T CORRECT. ANY HELP WOULD BE APPRECIATED. EVEN A GUIDE REFERRAL WOULD HELP ON MY NEXT JOURNEY…JOHN

Response:

Question:

This request presents a pretty weak thread to this group but I regard you as technicians, hence the question. I’ve been away from fishing for a few years now and have lost track of who mail orders rod building components. Please note that I’m interested in most everything except fly fishing components (including salt water spinning, conventional casting and class trolling to 130+). Any advice is appreciated … AW

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Quoting "WildernessWerkes!"<wwerkes from a message in rec.outdoors.fishing.f    <This request presents a pretty weak thread to this group but I regard    <you as technicians, hence the question. I’ve been away from fishing for    <a few years now and have lost track of who mail orders rod building    <components. Please note that I’m interested in most everything except    <fly fishing components (including salt water spinning, conventional    <casting and class trolling to 130+). Any advice is appreciated … AW I order quite a bit os stuff from Angler’s Workshop.  They have always provided excellant service.           Angler’s Workshop           1350 Atlantic           Woodland, WA. 98674           360-225-9445 Jim Carlisle

Response:

This request presents a pretty weak thread to this group but I regard you as technicians, hence the question. I’ve been away from fishing for a few years now and have lost track of who mail orders rod building components. Please note that I’m interested in most everything except fly fishing components (including salt water spinning, conventional casting and class trolling to 130+). Any advice is appreciated … AW

Just starting to make rods myself. I recently purchased "Crafting a Graphite Fly Rod" by Al Garcia of Frank Amato publications. Al has a section on sources for equipment and materials. B.

Response:

I can reccommend Custom Tackle in Shelbyville, Tenn. Bob McKamey is the owner. Telephone 615-684-6164. I have dealt with this Co. for years. Good luck. Jack

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This request presents a pretty weak thread to this group but I regard you as technicians, hence the question. I’ve been away from fishing for a few years now and have lost track of who mail orders rod building components. Please note that I’m interested in most everything except fly fishing components (including salt water spinning, conventional casting and class trolling to 130+). Any advice is appreciated … AW Just starting to make rods myself. I recently purchased "Crafting a Graphite Fly Rod" by Al Garcia of Frank Amato publications. Al has a section on sources for equipment and materials. B.

I don’t think he’d buy a book on fly fishing gear when he said he wasn’t interested. Angler’s Workshop and Dale Clemems are two great rod building supply companies. Angler’s – (360) 225-9445 Clemens – (610) 395-5119 Don B.

Response:

This request presents a pretty weak thread to this group but I regard you as technicians, hence the question. I’ve been away from fishing for a few years now and have lost track of who mail orders rod building components. Please note that I’m interested in most everything except fly fishing components (including salt water spinning, conventional casting and class trolling to 130+). Any advice is appreciated … AW

Call these: Dale Clemmens Custom Tackle (615)395-5119 Custom Tackle Supply (615)684-6164 Anglers Workshop (360)225-9445

Response:

This request presents a pretty weak thread to this group but I regard you as technicians, hence the question. I’ve been away from fishing for a few years now and have lost track of who mail orders rod building components. Please note that I’m interested in most everything except fly fishing components (including salt water spinning, conventional casting and class trolling to 130+). Any advice is appreciated … AW Just starting to make rods myself. I recently purchased "Crafting a Graphite Fly Rod" by Al Garcia of Frank Amato publications. Al has a section on sources for equipment and materials. B.

There are tons of suppliers, Cabella’s has a good catalogue for tackle craft. Thomas

Response:

One of the most complete mail order rod component catologs that I have seen is put out by Cabela’s.  They put out a series of specialty catalogs.  The one that you need is called "Tackle Craft".  It has a complete spectrum of rod building supplies.  Call 800-237-4444. Mark

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Question:

What is the outlook for flyfishing Mamoth this spring and summer. Lots of insects again.  Any good spots to recommend?

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I’ll be out that way from Reno, NV the last week in June–just wondered if anybody knows these waters and what might be suggested? Thanks!

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Question:

Any reason why there is not a fly-tying newsgroup with jpeg images of flies, recipes, techniques, etc?  There seems to be enough tying traffic to warrant a new group?

As soon as I get off my butt and get my web page finished, you’ll have a place to view nice pictures of flys, including the pattern recipe. Steve

Response:

Any reason why there is not a fly-tying newsgroup with jpeg images of flies, recipes, techniques, etc?  There seems to be enough tying traffic to warrant a new group?

Response:

I would love to see a Fly Tying Newsgroup.  I tie about 6000 flies per year and enjoy learning and sharing the skills and lore with others. I hope that it comes together. AuSable1

Response:

Any reason why there is not a fly-tying newsgroup with jpeg images of flies, recipes, techniques, etc?  There seems to be enough tying traffic to warrant a new group?

I started a RFD (Request For Discussion) awhile back using the appropriate channels.  In order to create a new newsgroup there is a standard procedure which needs to be followed which includes a discussion period.  I posted the initial article which should have prompted the discussion but there wasn’t a single response.  I suppose theoretically the discussion period is over and I could post a CFV (Call For Votes).  In order for the group to pass it requires 100 more yes votes then no votes.   — John Fereira Isis Distributed Systems – Ithaca, NY

Response:

Any reason why there is not a fly-tying newsgroup with jpeg images of flies, recipes, techniques, etc?  There seems to be enough tying traffic to warrant a new group?

Recipes?..like chocolate chip nymphs? Oatmeal and rasin caddis?…I know, Tuna-streamer cassarole…I know you meant PATTERNS, but my mind is temporarily warped!!!! I guess I smoked too much dope at the PETA rally. (Hee Hee…)….NEVER MIND!!!    

Response:

Sorry I missed the original post.  I hope you go ahead with the CFV – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any reason why there is not a fly-tying newsgroup with jpeg images of flies, recipes, techniques, etc?  There seems to be enough tying traffic to warrant a new group? I started a RFD (Request For Discussion) awhile back using the appropriate channels.  In order to create a new newsgroup there is a standard procedure which needs to be followed which includes a discussion period.  I posted the initial article which should have prompted the discussion but there wasn’t a single response.  I suppose theoretically the discussion period is over and I could post a CFV (Call For Votes).  In order for the group to pass it requires 100 more yes votes then no votes.   — John Fereira Isis Distributed Systems – Ithaca, NY

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call for the vote. — Ken Clark Ft. Lupton, CO

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I would love to see a Fly Tying Newsgroup.  I tie about 6000 flies per year and enjoy learning and sharing the skills and lore with others. I hope that it comes together. AuSable1

I agree with the tying and sharing but disagree with a new newsgroup about fly tying. I think this is absolutely the right newsgroup (I am talking about the flyfishing newsgr.!) for the discussion of our tying problems or to post tips. How far should we go- a separate newsgroup saltwater and freshwater fly tying, as special group for tying leaders, another newsgroup about tying knots, maybe divided in subgroups how to tie on saltwater or freshwater flies! I think this is getting way to far! IMO this newsgroup should promote our skills and enhance our joy at the water, not waste our time switching between newsgroup. If finding the right artikles is an issue, we might think about abbreviations in fron of the subject line which marks special topics, like ft=freshwater tying, st=saltwater tying, e=equipment, c=casting etc… Only if you get the full range of information, you will get to be an really proficient flyfisher/tyer.     My opinion, sorry folks                     cheers,    Thomas

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I’m in for this one too.  Let me know if I can help.  I think I saw a rod building newsgroup somewhere, if they can pull that off fly tying should certainly fly. Catch and Release Dave Wood Ravenna OH

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Sounds good to me, count me in

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Me too Oliver Inverness-shire;  Scotland "Lead me not into temptation – I can do it myself"

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John Count me in, sounds great and about time. Dave

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Would be interested if it includes salt water flies.

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I think it would be a great idea as this newsgroup is getting almost too big. It would certainly facilitate finding articles of interest for us tying fools. Need something to help us hang on until April…Joel

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I would love to see a Fly Tying Newsgroup.  I tie about 6000 flies per year and enjoy learning and sharing the skills and lore with others. I hope that it comes together. AuSable1

Set it up and see if there is any response.

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I would also like to see a newsgroup devoted to Fly Tying. Cheers, Dave.

Response:

Count my vote as YES!!!

        Tom Rude

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any reason why there is not a fly-tying newsgroup with jpeg images of flies, recipes, techniques, etc?  There seems to be enough tying traffic to warrant a new group? I started a RFD (Request For Discussion) awhile back using the appropriate channels.  In order to create a new newsgroup there is a standard procedure which needs to be followed which includes a discussion period.  I posted the initial article which should have prompted the discussion but there wasn’t a single response.  I suppose theoretically the discussion period is over and I could post a CFV (Call For Votes).  In order for the group to pass it requires 100 more yes votes then no votes.   — John Fereira Isis Distributed Systems – Ithaca, NY

I would certainly vote for a fly tying newsgroup. It sounds like a great idea.   —Catch & Release— To catch a fish is human,     To release it is divine!

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Absolutely one of the best ideas posted in this newsgroup! I’d vote you for president if I could (luckily I’m in Finland BR, Eki

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Gets My Vote. Count me in

Response:

Ya think this will fly? Hope it dose dwh

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any reason why there is not a fly-tying newsgroup with jpeg images of flies, recipes, techniques, etc?  There seems to be enough tying traffic to warrant a new group? I started a RFD (Request For Discussion) awhile back using the appropriate channels.  In order to create a new newsgroup there is a standard procedure which needs to be followed which includes a discussion period.  I posted the initial article which should have prompted the discussion but there wasn’t a single response.  I suppose theoretically the discussion period is over and I could post a CFV (Call For Votes).  In order for the group to pass it requires 100 more yes votes then no votes.   — John Fereira Isis Distributed Systems – Ithaca, NY

Response:

Any reason why there is not a fly-tying newsgroup with jpeg images of flies, recipes, techniques, etc?  There seems to be enough tying traffic to warrant a new group?

I say no.  Fly fishing and fly tying are so closely allied that it makes sense to me to keep them in the same group.  It is easier for me to check out the fishing and the tying posts at the same time. — Keep your stick on the ice.

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Count my vote as YES!!! Fly Fisher/ Homebrewer

Response:

Count my vote as YES!!!

I received several other "votes" via email.  In order to create a new newsgroup that procedure dictates that votes do not count until a CFV (Call For Votes) has been posted to news.groups, and then only after the RFD (Request For Discussion) has taken place. Even then, votes are only counted which have been sent *via email* to a specific address used to count them.   I will check out if I can issue the CFV and if so the voting period and where to send your votes will be announced. It does no good to announce your votes over Usenet. — John Fereira Isis Distributed Systems – Ithaca, NY

Response:

Question:

One thing to consider if you want to FF from a canoe is that you’ll be only marginally higher out of the water than if you are in a float tube; you can stand up in a cartopper, but a canoe …. Consequently, you might want to consider a longer rod (as the tubers often pack). A 10ft rod will keep your backcast drier than an 8ft one. Or, preferably, work on your casting to keep the back cast out of the water.   Sitting in a canoe you’re at least as high out of the water as you typically are when wading.  So, if you’re hitting the water behind you in a canoe, you’re almost certainly doing the same thing when wading–i.e., you casting could use some help. And improving your casting is cheaper than buying another, longer rod. Emil

I would have to agree there.  Canoes are great.  I use one on Lake Cayuga in NY, and I dont know about anyone else, but if you are somewhat able, I have never had any problems standing. Jon

Response:

I’ve found that if you’re right-handed, it helps to cast from the right side of the canoe, parallel with its length, i.e. not across the beam. And try not to let the stripped line get tangled up in the paddle, float jacket and six-pack and/or your ankle in the bottom of the boat. When the mother of all basses hits, you don’t want to be pulled overboard to your doom like some freshwater Captain Ahab. Course, I could think of worse ways to go…. Sent Via SportsNet On-Line Services Toronto’s Premier Sports and Recreation Service Modem: 416-223-2463    Phone: 416-223-2250 Ext. 33

Response:

Good for you!  I’m convinced float tubes became popular when folks no longer had time to lean to paddle.  For range, keeping dry and all-round fun canoes are are wonderful.  now if you want to get really frisky learn to pole upstream. — ** Louis Bignami, Publisher         http://www.finefishing.com Fine Fishing Internet Magazine                "largest fishing mag on the Net" **

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best thing about fishing from a canoe…even if the fish aren’t bitin’ you’re, well, in that canoe… Tim Walker

Response:

Personally, I love canoes too,they are just prettier and much more versatile than any other watercraft, especially when you add options to a standard canoe. Consider these advantages: -Canoes are inherently more hydrodynamic than a john boat, and move through the water with less effort (how much less depends on hull shape.) -Because they’re streamlined at both ends, canoes move forward easily yet still easily "hold" in a good spot against a swift river current hitting the stern. -A kneeling canoeist can be as stealthy as a float tuber and cover much more water. (Though admittedly, a float tuber can move without having to put the rod down.) – A long, narrow, fast canoe can be converted to a "john boat like"  slow, stable craft by adding solid foam or inflatable sponsons (aka swimmies or water wings). These canoe ‘training wheels’ install in seconds and may not add much drag at all.  They’re a God send when you want to stand up to spot fish or when running unfamiliar big rapids. -Adding gunnel mounted oarlocks or a rowing frame to an already fast canoe will get the lone angler across the lake or up the river faster than any other non-motorized fishing craft (including a kayak). – There are "collapsible canoes" available from Ally and ScanSports which can store in a closet, or travel in the trunk of compact car, a float plane or as checked baggage on an airliner. -You can add a motor mount to almost any canoe for long hauls against wind or current. I could go on, but if you’re only going to get one craft to handle every possible fly fishing situation, get a canoe.  This doesn’t rule out the possibility that for the type of fishing you do most, another craft may be just as good or better.  You be the judge. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When considering a canoe for fishing, make sure you can easily paddle it. Beamy boats are great for short hauls but if you’re going to where the fish are and the other guys in the beamy boats aren’t get a boat that you can paddle.  A solo boat is okay if you don’t have or don’t want any friends.  Suggest a boat in the 14 to 15 foot range that could handle a center paddling position ( add a seat yourself) and then you’d have a boat that could get you there. Good tumblehome to make paddling a little easier.  Suggest learning to fish from the seated or kneeling position…or if you’re real good try standing on the gunwhales 8/]) TK

Response:

: When considering a canoe for fishing, make sure you can easily paddle it. : Beamy boats are great for short hauls but if you’re going to where the : fish are and the other guys in the beamy boats aren’t get a boat that you : can paddle.  A solo boat is okay if you don’t have or don’t want any : friends.  Suggest a boat in the 14 to 15 foot range that could handle a : center paddling position ( add a seat yourself) and then you’d have a boat : that could get you there. Good tumblehome to make paddling a little : easier.  Suggest learning to fish from the seated or kneeling : position…or if you’re real good try standing on the gunwhales 8/]) One thing to consider if you want to FF from a canoe is that you’ll be only marginally higher out of the water than if you are in a float tube; you can stand up in a cartopper, but a canoe …. Consequently, you might want to consider a longer rod (as the tubers often pack). A 10ft rod will keep your backcast drier than an 8ft one. — 3798 Woodland Drive     voice: (604) 368-9315 Trail, BC               data:  (604) 368-9341

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : When considering a canoe for fishing, make sure you can easily paddle it. : Beamy boats are great for short hauls but if you’re going to where the : fish are and the other guys in the beamy boats aren’t get a boat that you : can paddle.  A solo boat is okay if you don’t have or don’t want any : friends.  Suggest a boat in the 14 to 15 foot range that could handle a : center paddling position ( add a seat yourself) and then you’d have a boat : that could get you there. Good tumblehome to make paddling a little : easier.  Suggest learning to fish from the seated or kneeling : position…or if you’re real good try standing on the gunwhales 8/]) One thing to consider if you want to FF from a canoe is that you’ll be only marginally higher out of the water than if you are in a float tube; you can stand up in a cartopper, but a canoe …. Consequently, you might want to consider a longer rod (as the tubers often pack). A 10ft rod will keep your backcast drier than an 8ft one.

Or, preferably, work on your casting to keep the back cast out of the water.   Sitting in a canoe you’re at least as high out of the water as you typically are when wading.  So, if you’re hitting the water behind you in a canoe, you’re almost certainly doing the same thing when wading–i.e., you casting could use some help. And improving your casting is cheaper than buying another, longer rod. Emil Department of Education Phone:  (607) 255-2267 419 Kennedy Hall                Fax:    (607) 255-7905 Cornell University Ithaca, NY 14853

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‘Course, I just think that canoes are wonderful so I’m biased. I can also cast 50′ easily from a sitting position, about as far as I need

to. Any recomemndations for the best 1 person canoe for streams and rivers? Thanx, Mike

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‘Course, I just think that canoes are wonderful so I’m biased. I can also cast 50′ easily from a sitting position, about as far as I need to. Any recomemndations for the best 1 person canoe for streams and rivers? Thanx, Mike

Mike,  I would take a serious look at the OldTown line of canoes. They have a few models that are ideal for your situation. I have the Dicovery 133K and it is a dream to fish from. The ruggedness coupled with the 40 1/2" beam makes it a great fly fishing vessel.                                     Best of Luck,                                                    Jay              /Leave nothing but footprints                                               /                                              /                                             /                                            /                                           /                                       O  /                                       |_/o                                       |                                      / |

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Question:

Just returned from the West Branch of the Ausable.  Your best bet is to stop in at Fran Better’s fly shop on Rt. 86 in Wilmington.  Last weekend he recommended a gray haystack dun and emerger as well as a Picket Finn.   Fishing was slow, but I managed to land a brookie and a few browns on those flies, which imitate the Isonychia.  Also saw lots of BWOs and both rusty and sulphur spinners in the evening.  Most of the action took place in the afternoon.

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I am looking for patterns to use on the Au sable river in NY state.   Any ideas, both dry and nymphs.  thanks. Luc Nocente — Luc Nocente

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Question:

: I’m planning a trip out to Calgary this summer to fish the Bow River. : Has anyone fished this river and can offer suggestions, tips, : comments about the river and the fishing?

A very difficult river to fish unless water-borne, and boating the river has its hazards. There are two large dams (Ghost River and Bearspaw) upstream of Calgary, and irrigation weir right in town, and another one downstream at Carseland. The big dams you will know about; the weirs (low-head dams) will catch you by surprise. Most float trips are between the weir downtown and Carseland weir. For a first time, use a guide — 3798 Woodland Drive     voice: (604) 368-9315 Trail, BC               data:  (604) 368-9341

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Great Guide for the Bow = Tom Cutmore of "Must be Nice" drift Fishing Co. out of Alberta. Tom’s a great guy, excellent fisherman and knows the Bow.  Had a ’super’ two day trip with Tom there several years ago. PS- He’s not a relative !! LOL !

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As for a guide, I don’t think you could get one that is better than Barry White.

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I’m going to have an opportunity to be in Calgary in mid June. What are the best areas to fish for a wading flyfisher with no guide? Interested in access, and what fly hatches I might encounter that time of year. Also,  how much does a short term Canadioa fishing license cost. Thanks in advance for any help. Dale Owens

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        Mid-June may be a little early for the Bow. Depending on the snowpack on the mountains, there may still be a heavy runoff. The Bow is still fishable then, but with large, heavy weighted streamers and mynphs. If possible, delay to later in the month to be on the safe side.

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