Question:

My joke was that "when you own your own business, they can’t tell you when to go home, you can work all night". Actually, having your own business can be a great life if you enjoy the good parts of it. Some people are so talented that they can have a business ( or two) and it is no big deal for them, that is not me. If someone out there is thinking of starting their own business, just be sure first and do some research, but don’t get scared off. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Tim & Bill, A fellow who owned his own business told me that there was both bad and good involved.  You only had to work half days, but you could choose which 12 hours you wanted to be in.  He also mentioned that most self employed folks have a prick for a boss. Crusty You were caught . . . being smart. How long have you owned the store? How long was it after you started the biz before you finally  got the store and staff in the shape required to allow you could take a few days off? I’ll bet you’ve paid more than enough dues to earn a few days off here and there. I watched my father-in-law work 7 days a week for a long time in his own business before he was able to leave it for a day or two once in a while. Then, when times got tough again, he had to step right back into the 7 day a week routine again. Bill, take the rest of the day off — you earned it! Tim — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com You would need to have some money and  realize that you are going to put in some very long hours. Not a good job for someone who likes to fly fish. This job is not about going fly fishing all the time. Well Bill, let me see…How many times have I driven/flown from the Portland Oregon area to Sacramento?  By golly, I believe it has been 6 in the last 2 years.  How many times have I stopped into your fly shop to meet you? By golly, I believe it has been 6.  How many times have you been in? My math’s not good, what is 6 minus 6?  :) Crusty

Response:

Tim & Bill, A fellow who owned his own business told me that there was both bad and good involved.  You only had to work half days, but you could choose which 12 hours you wanted to be in.  He also mentioned that most self employed folks have a prick for a boss. Crusty

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You were caught . . . being smart. How long have you owned the store? How long was it after you started the biz before you finally  got the store and staff in the shape required to allow you could take a few days off? I’ll bet you’ve paid more than enough dues to earn a few days off here and there. I watched my father-in-law work 7 days a week for a long time in his own business before he was able to leave it for a day or two once in a while. Then, when times got tough again, he had to step right back into the 7 day a week routine again. Bill, take the rest of the day off — you earned it! Tim — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com You would need to have some money and  realize that you are going to put in some very long hours. Not a good job for someone who likes to fly fish. This job is not about going fly fishing all the time. Well Bill, let me see…How many times have I driven/flown from the Portland Oregon area to Sacramento?  By golly, I believe it has been 6 in the last 2 years.  How many times have I stopped into your fly shop to meet you? By golly, I believe it has been 6.  How many times have you been in?  My math’s not good, what is 6 minus 6?  :) Crusty

Response:

You were caught . . . being smart. How long have you owned the store? How long was it after you started the biz before you finally  got the store and staff in the shape required to allow you could take a few days off? I’ll bet you’ve paid more than enough dues to earn a few days off here and there. I watched my father-in-law work 7 days a week for a long time in his own business before he was able to leave it for a day or two once in a while. Then, when times got tough again, he had to step right back into the 7 day a week routine again. Bill, take the rest of the day off — you earned it! Tim

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com You would need to have some money and  realize that you are going to put in some very long hours. Not a good job for someone who likes to fly fish. This job is not about going fly fishing all the time. Well Bill, let me see…How many times have I driven/flown from the Portland Oregon area to Sacramento?  By golly, I believe it has been 6 in the last 2 years.  How many times have I stopped into your fly shop to meet you? By golly, I believe it has been 6.  How many times have you been in?  My math’s not good, what is 6 minus 6?  :) Crusty

Response:

Greg, If I’m not mistaken, the Yankee Flyshop was the scene of a tragedy last August when an employee shot to death the shop’s owner.  I remember hearing about this when it happened- I think the employee even lived in the apartment above the store. Dave

Response:

— Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You would need to have some money and  realize that you are going to put in some very long hours. Not a good job for someone who likes to fly fish. This job is not about going fly fishing all the time. Well Bill, let me see…How many times have I driven/flown from the Portland Oregon area to Sacramento?  By golly, I believe it has been 6 in the last 2 years.  How many times have I stopped into your fly shop to meet you?  By golly, I believe it has been 6.  How many times have you been in?  My math’s not good, what is 6 minus 6?  :) Crusty

Response:

"Fortenberry Fly Fishing Shoppe"

Hey, Wayno and I could probably commit  a couple of hundred bucks to the project – in lieu of betting with Forty on Illinois games.  Sumbitch psychs me out every time.  <g   Harry How ’bout some Scotch on next fall?  Oskii wa wa!!

Response:

You would need to have some money and  realize that you are going to put in some very long hours. Not a good job for someone who likes to fly fish. This job is not about going fly fishing all the time.

Well Bill, let me see…How many times have I driven/flown from the Portland Oregon area to Sacramento?  By golly, I believe it has been 6 in the last 2 years.  How many times have I stopped into your fly shop to meet you?  By golly, I believe it has been 6.  How many times have you been in?  My math’s not good, what is 6 minus 6?  :) Crusty

Response:

  Posted By: yankeeflyshop Wednesday, April 3, 2002 at 07:07:47 Remote Address: 152.163.194.186 Body of Message: Established Fly Shop in Pulaski,NY on the salmon river for sale.Building includes 2 store fronts 1 side terminal tackle and 1 side fly shop.Both fully stocked –Turn Key operation –2 apartments upstairs 1 2 bedroom and 1 one bedroom.terminal tackle side acn be shut down and rented for 400 a month and 2 bedroom could be rented for 375-400 per month.Run a fly shop with high sales and live upstairs.Asking 145K –Negotiable –Serious inquires Only

FORTENBERRY!!  This is for you!  PERFECT! Okay guys, who’s going to finance him on this project? Is that you LaCourse? Yah.  Sure. George Gehrke  Voting for: "Fortenberry Fly Fishing Shoppe"

Response:

If you like to fly fish, don’t get your own small business.

Never a truer word spoken, Bill! Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

Response:

Not a good job for someone who likes to fly fish. This job is not about going fly fishing all the time.

It helps a great deal to be married to an organizational genius. This is a job for someone that enjoys helping others and talking about fly fishing a lot. This job is taking care of the needs of those who have it figured out well enough so they can go fly fishing. If you like to fly fish, don’t get your own small business.

You seem to have done rather well with it, Bill. You flyfish more, in more exotic locations, than anyone else I know. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Hi All, I guess this is a destination fly shop? For the right person/persons this could be a great life. If it included a retail buildings, inventory, fixtures and living space it sounds interesting. You would need to have some money and  realize that you are going to put in some very long hours. Not a good job for someone who likes to fly fish. This job is not about going fly fishing all the time. This is a job for someone that enjoys helping others and talking about fly fishing a lot. This job is taking care of the needs of those who have it figured out well enough so they can go fly fishing. If you like to fly fish, don’t get your own small business. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  Someone recently posted questions about starting up  a fly shop.  The following was on the "Steelhead Site" Posted By: yankeeflyshop Wednesday, April 3, 2002 at 07:07:47 Remote Address: 152.163.194.186 Body of Message: Established Fly Shop in Pulaski,NY on the salmon river for sale.Building includes 2 store fronts 1 side terminal tackle and 1 side fly shop.Both fully stocked –Turn Key operation –2 apartments upstairs 1 2 bedroom and 1 one bedroom.terminal tackle side acn be shut down and rented for 400 a month and 2 bedroom could be rented for 375-400 per month.Run a fly shop with high sales and live upstairs.Asking 145K –Negotiable –Serious inquires Only

Response:

Question:

The previous posts on the RRR provided a great description of the weather, the river and the activity.  This was my first smallmouth fishing opportunity as well as my first clave. Until the clave, most of my fly fishing experience was limited to largemouth and bluegills in ponds, lakes, and slow moving rivers. The clave was an outstanding introduction to fishing for smallmouths.  It was also the first time I fished a river like the Rapp – and really learned to appreciate a wading staff. It was hot and there were a number of challenges, but it was also a great learning experience.  With some coaching from Wayne and Frank Reid, I caught my first smallies, had the opportunity to try out a float tube and a kayak, and to learn a lot about heat stress.  Special thanks to Allan Epps for his help with the kayak. Bottom line – I really enjoyed the chance to meet and fish with the other clave attendees, a great group.  Looking forward to the next time – maybe trout? Thanks Al Poklemba

Response:

Al,    Glad you have you along.  That was the "newbie initiation" clave.  Hot weather, humidity, low water, high water, tough fishing, all designed to weed out the chaff.  Depending on your point of view, it will only get better.       Frank Reid

Response:

(nice TR snipped) Thanks Al Poklemba

Al, it was our pleasure to fish with such a gentleman.  I have some great small stream jaunts for Brookies in the SNP  or Mossy Creek for a spring creek experience, and the Jackson River for a big trout water experience.  Just let me know and we’ll hit the creeks! Wayne to fish is human…to release Divine!

Response:

Al,   Glad you have you along.  That was the "newbie initiation" clave.  Hot weather, humidity, low water, high water, tough fishing, all designed to weed out the chaff.  Depending on your point of view, it will only get better.      Frank Reid

smallie or two, what with the tough fishing and all.  Looking forward to seeing you next year on the Rapp. Frank (chaff) Church in Elkhart, IN bassbugr AT yahoo dot com "jes’ blowin’ in the wind"

Response:

Hey Frank baby, what’s up with the Mr. G. intro? Op

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Al,   Glad you have you along.  That was the "newbie initiation" clave.  Hot weather, humidity, low water, high water, tough fishing, all designed to weed out the chaff.  Depending on your point of view, it will only get better.      Frank Reid smallie or two, what with the tough fishing and all.  Looking forward to seeing you next year on the Rapp. Frank (chaff) Church in Elkhart, IN bassbugr AT yahoo dot com "jes’ blowin’ in the wind"

Response:

Question:

Hi Doug, Thanks for the comment.  I kinda like the style.  It’s different!  ;) For power on mine, I’m going with the merCruiser 6cyl. diesel.  That will give me 225 HP at each prop.  I’m also going to use the Bravo 3 outdrive.

Hey Mark, help me out here.  Why are you choosing the Bravo 3 outdrive for a twin engine application?  What advantage is there as compared to any of the less expensive alternatives? Who builds that engine?  It sounds like a great engine for that application. Regards, Tom Brown

Response:

                        *** big snip *** Shameless plug for MaxWeld boats … see thier site at: http://www.maxweldboats.com/ You’re getting a really cool boat…I love its looks. — Harry Krause

Thanks Harry.  I’m not too sure about the looks.  I kinda like the looks of a boat with a well appointed fly bridge better.  However, the boat *should* be really functional and they *are* extremely stable fishing platforms and that means a lot more to me than looks.  (besides the fact that they are "hell-built" for stout!) Still having trouble deciding on colors and a name for her.  The wife and I have decided (with a little coaching from the builder) to paint the cabin the same grey as the pictures show and we are going to go with a black back deck.  I thought something lighter, but Andy says that the black deck is a lot easier to maintain.  I personally think that when the sun shines on it the back deck is going to get awful warm!  Whatever we decide … No White in the work area!!  Makes my tired old eyes hurt!  ;) -mArk-  (who finds naming a boat harder than naming kids!  ;))

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Doug, Thanks for the comment.  I kinda like the style.  It’s different!  ;) For power on mine, I’m going with the merCruiser 6cyl. diesel.  That will give me 225 HP at each prop.  I’m also going to use the Bravo 3 outdrive. Andy will set them up with almost any type of power that you want.  The one he just finished building (basicly the same boat I’m getting) had twin Cummins with jet pumps type outdrives.  I don’t know if he has build one that is a true inboard yet, but he has been talking about it.  It’s just a matter of what the customer wants.  He’s *very* flexible. I looked at several different engines before I picked the merCruisers.  I had originally picked the Volvo 6cyl. diesel, but Andy told me that there had been quite a few warranty issues (new engines that needed work) and that Volvo had not been real good about honoring the warranty.  He said that having your new boat have to go in right away for engine work kind of soured the whole boat buying process and suggested that I go with the merCruiser for dependability sake. Andy worked out a deal with the merCruiser dealer to get the engines at the same price as those from Volvo.  They usually cost about $2000 an issue more. The Cummins engines are like $10k more.  Kinda outa my price range! -mArk-                          (not speaking for the company) Shameless plug for MaxWeld boats … see thier site at: http://www.maxweldboats.com/

You’re getting a really cool boat…I love its looks. — Harry Krause I know how hard it is for you to put food on your family. -GW Bush

Response:

Wow-Cooool Cat ! What’s the power ? Do they offer inboards in a catamaran ? Doug Miller

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Went down to the coast last Friday (3/23) so that I could stop in and see what progress has been made on the new boat.  Took Andy and crew 2 weeks to lay the bulkheads and stringers, but the boat is finally right-side up and starting to take shape!!  They started putting the sides of the hulls on so it actually is starting to look like a boat!  I’m getting really excited as things start to take shape! Whilst I was looking at what they had done during the week Andy told me that he didn’t think the boat had a deck length of 28′10" as we originally agreed too (he has stated several times that all sizes are estimates as each hull is layed by hand and everything is custom).  He put the tape on it and came up with the new length of 29′9".  He looked at me and smiled and say something to the affect of "I didn’t think you’d mind the extra (almost) foot of length".  ;)  Too Cool! He’s also decided to change the "swim platfrom" from 36" to 42".  He was saying that the extra 6" doesn’t seem like much, but it really makes a difference when you are out on it.  WAY Cool!  ;) Still haven’t picked a color scheme or a name, but we are working on it. I was going to use some of the commercial gear off’n "Fish Assassin" (my 22′ dory) but Andy says "nope".  He does not like the galvanized davits for the down-riggers and is going to build me some custom made Stainless davits. He is also going to build me some custom aluminum outriggers … length to be determined, but they look like they want to be about 28′ with forstays built into them. WhooWhee!!  Can’t hardly contain myself waiting for the magical day when I get to take delivery (about June 16th)!!  ;)  ;) -mArk-

Response:

Hi Doug, Thanks for the comment.  I kinda like the style.  It’s different!  ;) For power on mine, I’m going with the merCruiser 6cyl. diesel.  That will give me 225 HP at each prop.  I’m also going to use the Bravo 3 outdrive. Hey Mark, help me out here.  Why are you choosing the Bravo 3 outdrive for a twin engine application?  What advantage is there as compared to any of the less expensive alternatives? Who builds that engine?  It sounds like a great engine for that application. Regards, Tom Brown

Hi Tom.  It’s another one of those hell-built-for-stout things that I’m so hung up on.  I want equiptment that won’t fail (or at least has less chance of failure) when I’m a hundred miles from shore.  There is also the fact that the twin props give you a little more umph.  Besides, Andy catagoricly refuses to use "cheap" stuff on his boats.  He only wants to use the best he can get in any given class.  The Bravo 3 is much stouter than any of the Alpha drives and actually has quite a few design improvements over the Bravo 1 & 2 outdrives. I believe Andy told me that the engine blocks actually come from Isuzu (sp?). All the bolt on stuff is Mercury specific.  I just hope these engines are as bullet proof (idiot proof??  ;)) as I’ve been led to believe.  I spent a lot of time researching both the merCruiser and the Volvo diesel offerings and they seemed pretty close.  Part of the decision was based on the builders recommondation (and I trust Andy a lot … known him for a lot of years!). -mArk-   (who beleives that down fishing time means lost revenue)

Response:

Hi Doug, Thanks for the comment.  I kinda like the style.  It’s different!  ;) For power on mine, I’m going with the merCruiser 6cyl. diesel.  That will give me 225 HP at each prop.  I’m also going to use the Bravo 3 outdrive. Andy will set them up with almost any type of power that you want.  The one he just finished building (basicly the same boat I’m getting) had twin Cummins with jet pumps type outdrives.  I don’t know if he has build one that is a true inboard yet, but he has been talking about it.  It’s just a matter of what the customer wants.  He’s *very* flexible. I looked at several different engines before I picked the merCruisers.  I had originally picked the Volvo 6cyl. diesel, but Andy told me that there had been quite a few warranty issues (new engines that needed work) and that Volvo had not been real good about honoring the warranty.  He said that having your new boat have to go in right away for engine work kind of soured the whole boat buying process and suggested that I go with the merCruiser for dependability sake. Andy worked out a deal with the merCruiser dealer to get the engines at the same price as those from Volvo.  They usually cost about $2000 an issue more. The Cummins engines are like $10k more.  Kinda outa my price range! -mArk-                          (not speaking for the company) Shameless plug for MaxWeld boats … see thier site at: http://www.maxweldboats.com/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wow-Cooool Cat ! What’s the power ? Do they offer inboards in a catamaran ? Doug Miller Went down to the coast last Friday (3/23) so that I could stop in and see what progress has been made on the new boat.  Took Andy and crew 2 weeks to lay the bulkheads and stringers, but the boat is finally right-side up and starting to take shape!!  They started putting the sides of the hulls on so it actually is starting to look like a boat!  I’m getting really excited as things start to take shape! Whilst I was looking at what they had done during the week Andy told me that he didn’t think the boat had a deck length of 28′10" as we originally agreed too (he has stated several times that all sizes are estimates as each hull is layed by hand and everything is custom).  He put the tape on it and came up with the new length of 29′9".  He looked at me and smiled and say something to the affect of "I didn’t think you’d mind the extra (almost) foot of length".  ;)  Too Cool! He’s also decided to change the "swim platfrom" from 36" to 42".  He was saying that the extra 6" doesn’t seem like much, but it really makes a difference when you are out on it.  WAY Cool!  ;) Still haven’t picked a color scheme or a name, but we are working on it. I was going to use some of the commercial gear off’n "Fish Assassin" (my 22′ dory) but Andy says "nope".  He does not like the galvanized davits for the down-riggers and is going to build me some custom made Stainless davits. He is also going to build me some custom aluminum outriggers … length to be determined, but they look like they want to be about 28′ with forstays built into them. WhooWhee!!  Can’t hardly contain myself waiting for the magical day when I get to take delivery (about June 16th)!!  ;)  ;) -mArk-

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Went down to the coast last Friday (3/23) so that I could stop in and see what progress has been made on the new boat.  Took Andy and crew 2 weeks to lay the bulkheads and stringers, but the boat is finally right-side up and starting to take shape!!  They started putting the sides of the hulls on so it actually is starting to look like a boat!  I’m getting really excited as things start to take shape! Whilst I was looking at what they had done during the week Andy told me that he didn’t think the boat had a deck length of 28′10" as we originally agreed too (he has stated several times that all sizes are estimates as each hull is layed by hand and everything is custom).  He put the tape on it and came up with the new length of 29′9".  He looked at me and smiled and say something to the affect of "I didn’t think you’d mind the extra (almost) foot of length".  ;)  Too Cool! He’s also decided to change the "swim platfrom" from 36" to 42".  He was saying that the extra 6" doesn’t seem like much, but it really makes a difference when you are out on it.  WAY Cool!  ;) Still haven’t picked a color scheme or a name, but we are working on it.  I was going to use some of the commercial gear off’n "Fish Assassin" (my 22′ dory) but Andy says "nope".  He does not like the galvanized davits for the down-riggers and is going to build me some custom made Stainless davits.  He is also going to build me some custom aluminum outriggers … length to be determined, but they look like they want to be about 28′ with forstays built into them. WhooWhee!!  Can’t hardly contain myself waiting for the magical day when I get to take delivery (about June 16th)!!  ;)  ;) -mArk- Sounds woodlike. What is she? — Harry Krause Naw … we’ve talked about this one a little before … it’s an aluminum Catamaran style hull with twin merCrusier 6cyl. diesels.  Pictures at: http://www.maxweldboats.com The picture on the first page is a 27′ version of what my boat is going to be.  You looked at this one once before and told me that you’d feel safe about going out to sea in a boat like that … -mArk-

You are correct. When you started discussing bulkheads and frame, I immediately thought of wood. — Harry Krause The students at Yale came from all different backgrounds and all parts of the country. Within months, I knew many of them. -GW Bush

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Went down to the coast last Friday (3/23) so that I could stop in and see what progress has been made on the new boat.  Took Andy and crew 2 weeks to lay the bulkheads and stringers, but the boat is finally right-side up and starting to take shape!!  They started putting the sides of the hulls on so it actually is starting to look like a boat!  I’m getting really excited as things start to take shape! Whilst I was looking at what they had done during the week Andy told me that he didn’t think the boat had a deck length of 28′10" as we originally agreed too (he has stated several times that all sizes are estimates as each hull is layed by hand and everything is custom).  He put the tape on it and came up with the new length of 29′9".  He looked at me and smiled and say something to the affect of "I didn’t think you’d mind the extra (almost) foot of length".  ;)  Too Cool! He’s also decided to change the "swim platfrom" from 36" to 42".  He was saying that the extra 6" doesn’t seem like much, but it really makes a difference when you are out on it.  WAY Cool!  ;) Still haven’t picked a color scheme or a name, but we are working on it.  I was going to use some of the commercial gear off’n "Fish Assassin" (my 22′ dory) but Andy says "nope".  He does not like the galvanized davits for the down-riggers and is going to build me some custom made Stainless davits.  He is also going to build me some custom aluminum outriggers … length to be determined, but they look like they want to be about 28′ with forstays built into them. WhooWhee!!  Can’t hardly contain myself waiting for the magical day when I get to take delivery (about June 16th)!!  ;)  ;) -mArk- Sounds woodlike. What is she? — Harry Krause

Naw … we’ve talked about this one a little before … it’s an aluminum Catamaran style hull with twin merCrusier 6cyl. diesels.  Pictures at: http://www.maxweldboats.com The picture on the first page is a 27′ version of what my boat is going to be.  You looked at this one once before and told me that you’d feel safe about going out to sea in a boat like that … -mArk-

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Went down to the coast last Friday (3/23) so that I could stop in and see what progress has been made on the new boat.  Took Andy and crew 2 weeks to lay the bulkheads and stringers, but the boat is finally right-side up and starting to take shape!!  They started putting the sides of the hulls on so it actually is starting to look like a boat!  I’m getting really excited as things start to take shape! Whilst I was looking at what they had done during the week Andy told me that he didn’t think the boat had a deck length of 28′10" as we originally agreed too (he has stated several times that all sizes are estimates as each hull is layed by hand and everything is custom).  He put the tape on it and came up with the new length of 29′9".  He looked at me and smiled and say something to the affect of "I didn’t think you’d mind the extra (almost) foot of length".  ;)  Too Cool! He’s also decided to change the "swim platfrom" from 36" to 42".  He was saying that the extra 6" doesn’t seem like much, but it really makes a difference when you are out on it.  WAY Cool!  ;) Still haven’t picked a color scheme or a name, but we are working on it.  I was going to use some of the commercial gear off’n "Fish Assassin" (my 22′ dory) but Andy says "nope".  He does not like the galvanized davits for the down-riggers and is going to build me some custom made Stainless davits.  He is also going to build me some custom aluminum outriggers … length to be determined, but they look like they want to be about 28′ with forstays built into them. WhooWhee!!  Can’t hardly contain myself waiting for the magical day when I get to take delivery (about June 16th)!!  ;)  ;) -mArk-

Sounds woodlike. What is she? — Harry Krause This case has had full analyzation and has been looked at a lot. I understand the emotionality of death penalty cases. Dubya Dense

Response:

Went down to the coast last Friday (3/23) so that I could stop in and see what progress has been made on the new boat.  Took Andy and crew 2 weeks to lay the bulkheads and stringers, but the boat is finally right-side up and starting to take shape!!  They started putting the sides of the hulls on so it actually is starting to look like a boat!  I’m getting really excited as things start to take shape! Whilst I was looking at what they had done during the week Andy told me that he didn’t think the boat had a deck length of 28′10" as we originally agreed too (he has stated several times that all sizes are estimates as each hull is layed by hand and everything is custom).  He put the tape on it and came up with the new length of 29′9".  He looked at me and smiled and say something to the affect of "I didn’t think you’d mind the extra (almost) foot of length".  ;)  Too Cool! He’s also decided to change the "swim platfrom" from 36" to 42".  He was saying that the extra 6" doesn’t seem like much, but it really makes a difference when you are out on it.  WAY Cool!  ;) Still haven’t picked a color scheme or a name, but we are working on it.  I was going to use some of the commercial gear off’n "Fish Assassin" (my 22′ dory) but Andy says "nope".  He does not like the galvanized davits for the down-riggers and is going to build me some custom made Stainless davits.  He is also going to build me some custom aluminum outriggers … length to be determined, but they look like they want to be about 28′ with forstays built into them. WhooWhee!!  Can’t hardly contain myself waiting for the magical day when I get to take delivery (about June 16th)!!  ;)  ;) -mArk-

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Question:

The reason people fish varies from person to person and also seems to change over time. I know it has for me. When I was younger, I used to fish with an intensity that shut out everything around me in my quest to get just one more fish. Very goal oriented. Over time, I’ve become much more relaxed, especially on my home waters. I spend much of my time walking and observing, seeking a small piece of harmony with the nature world to replace the separation that is forced upon us by our overly busy modern lives. The splash of a trout chasing a caddis. The rich aroma of pine. The warmth of the sun on cool morning. The greenness of a forest in early Spring. The pungent taste of a wild raspberry.   Simple pleasures for a simple man. Willi "the crybaby" Loehman

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You get no points for catching me in a spelling error ( as noted here somewhere english is a third language for engineers ).   It’s getting bad so I may have to use Word for email.  I don’t understand the Tiger reference. I was in North Carolina once driving from Ft Rucker to DC in 1967.  Nothing wrong with it but time and fate have conspired to keep from ever going back. Still time and who knows. BJC – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – people ( if you want to include polititions as people ).    hope i don’t appear to be a spelling cop, but shouldn’t that be "politishuns"?    incidentally, bjc, was that you in the tiger mascot suit at this year’s unc-clemson game?    wayno

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people ( if you want to include polititions as people ).

    hope i don’t appear to be a spelling cop, but shouldn’t that be "politishuns"?     incidentally, bjc, was that you in the tiger mascot suit at this year’s unc-clemson game?     wayno

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just love a guy who fishes.  My extensive fan club and appearances in leading fashion magazines is testament to that.\ Seriously. The bitches dig it.

Where the F*** is Forty when you need him? Put down the chainsaw and listen to me. It’s time for us to join in the fight.

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Good post,  Good to see roff getting back to ideas and less about events and people ( if you want to include polititions as people ). The older I get the more I remember the line " God does not subtract from your alotted time on earth those hours spent fishing"  ( Idon’t know the source).  Any way I am trying to make up for lost time now.  I cant on one hand the sermons I have heard that did me more good than a Sunday morning on a good stream. BJC

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Willi "the crybaby" Loehman

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Thanks for the post Willi. I think that the fact FF provides me with so many alternative ways to spend time while still FFing is part of the draw. Sometimes I have to remember to continue fishing before my time in the woods is gone for the day. Danl

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -The reason people fish varies from person to person and also seems to change over time. I know it has for me. When I was younger, I used to fish with an intensity that shut out everything around me in my quest to get just one more fish. Very goal oriented. Over time, I’ve become much more relaxed, especially on my home waters. I spend much of my time walking and observing, seeking a small piece of harmony with the nature world to replace the separation that is forced upon us by our overly busy modern lives. The splash of a trout chasing a caddis. The rich aroma of pine. The warmth of the sun on cool morning. The greenness of a forest in early Spring. The pungent taste of a wild raspberry. Simple pleasures for a simple man. Willi "the crybaby" Loehman

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Seriously. The bitches dig it. -Muskie Sick’em #2. I expect he means actual female dogs. What’s the PC thing to call them these days? Neuticle challenged canines?

Charlie, I’m surprised at you. The phrase "neuticle challenged" is a typical oppressive male patriarchical concept, implying that the absence of testicles (or Neuticles, as the case may be) presents a "challenge." All members of ROFF who don’t possess either testicles or neuticles demand an apology. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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Charlie, I’m surprised at you. The phrase "neuticle challenged" is a typical oppressive male patriarchical concept, implying that the absence of testicles (or Neuticles, as the case may be) presents a "challenge."

Crap, now I’m going to have to get that taken off all the street and place names around here. — Charlie…

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Seriously. The bitches dig it. Sick’em #2.

What do you want me to do, cough on him ? — Ken Fortenberry

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Seriously. The bitches dig it. -Muskie Sick’em #2.

I expect he means actual female dogs. What’s the PC thing to call them these days? Neuticle challenged canines? — Charlie…

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it’s called growing old.  :) Simple pleasures for a simple man. Willi "the crybaby" Loehman I knew I had arrived at that age, one day when fishing the Boyne.

        lovely, ol man; you write even better than you tie streamers and nits.         thanks wayno

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There are lots of good things about *growing* old, but only a few about *being* old (and I can’t remember what any of those are<g).

Well, just consider the alternative. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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There are lots of good things about *growing* old, but only a few about *being* old (and I can’t remember what any of those are<g). Well, just consider the alternative.

*That’s* the one! — Charlie…

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\ Willi, well, I agree with your general ideas here.  Good post. However, doesnt anyone fish anymore for the groupies?  I know that is my main drive.  Chicks just love a guy who fishes.  My extensive fan club and appearances in leading fashion magazines is testament to that.\

Seriously. The bitches dig it. -Muskie

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Seriously. The bitches dig it. -Muskie

Sick’em #2.      - Ken — "The Constitution only gives people the right to pursue happiness.  You have to catch it yourself."      -Ben Franklin

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Nice story Peter,    The Sierra’s are prone to sudden storms like the one you described, that’s why I carry a light weight poncho in my vest.  Sometime the fishing gets better during the storm, but I quit if the lightening starts. ROFF’s Old Fart "Peter Charles" wrote – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I knew I had arrived at that age, one day when fishing the Boyne. Overhead the scudding clouds and patchwork sun were telling me that rain and thunder were on the way, but I kept working upstream along the forest floor, seeking little brookies to fall prey to my caddis. The sun was still dappling the streambanks when the first drops began to fall. In less than a minute, a downpour splattered throught the sodden branches and thunder reverberated throughout the forest.  The softened light turned the forest into hues of green beyond count.  The mist that arose from the warm forest floor evoked an older time of spirits and magic.  I stood under some bushes, letting the water cascade off my head and shoulders, gazing out at a  little rainbow arcing over the stream, that the peeking sun had painted on the misty rainfall.  When the thunder shower cleared, I longed for another one. In a little while, Nature obliged me once more. Peter

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it’s called growing old.  :)

There are a FEW good things about it. Willi

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it’s called growing old.  :) There are a FEW good things about it.

There are lots of good things about *growing* old, but only a few about *being* old (and I can’t remember what any of those are<g). — Charlie…

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Are you saying we old farts no longer have sense enough to come in out of the rain? JR

That sorta sums it up – either that, or we’ve learned to take our pleasures where we find them. Peter

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it’s called growing old.  :) Simple pleasures for a simple man. Willi "the crybaby" Loehman

I knew I had arrived at that age, one day when fishing the Boyne. Overhead the scudding clouds and patchwork sun were telling me that rain and thunder were on the way, but I kept working upstream along the forest floor, seeking little brookies to fall prey to my caddis. The sun was still dappling the streambanks when the first drops began to fall. In less than a minute, a downpour splattered throught the sodden branches and thunder reverberated throughout the forest.  The softened light turned the forest into hues of green beyond count.  The mist that arose from the warm forest floor evoked an older time of spirits and magic.  I stood under some bushes, letting the water cascade off my head and shoulders, gazing out at a  little rainbow arcing over the stream, that the peeking sun had painted on the misty rainfall.  When the thunder shower cleared, I longed for another one. In a little while, Nature obliged me once more. Peter

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Are you saying we old farts no longer have sense enough to come in out of the rain? JR – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – it’s called growing old.  :) I knew I had arrived at that age, one day when fishing the Boyne. ..very nice vignette clipped…. When the thunder shower cleared, I longed for another one. In a little while, Nature obliged me once more. Peter

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The reason people fish varies from person to person and also seems to change over time.

[snip] Well said, Willi; but go easy on those wild berries or you might end up with ‘internal rhythms’<g. — Charlie…

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(me, too) However, sometimes (every day i fish) when i’ve promised to be home at a certain time and i’m pushing it, i say to myself "just one more fish and i’ll go." Then, if i catch that fish right away, i KEEP FISHING.  

<some stuff snipped <gYeah, me too. It amazing the deals I make with myself to keep from having to stop fishing.   "OK 5 more casts, and if there are no strikes, then I’m out of here.  What, that was a lousy cast! Tnat doesn’t count….I’m sure I would have had a strike if there was no drag on that drift….Shee-it! I didn’t see that neat little run on the far side of the stream…It’s just this side of that big rock where I absolutely, positively said I’d quit…but there’s a deep pool just on the other side of that rock…and there’s always fish there… And on and on… Thanks for the impressions Willi. Quick trip report: Went wild mushroom hunting yesterday. Got some chanterelles, matsutakes, boletes, lobster mushrooms, corals. Ate some. Survived.

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(me, too) However, sometimes (every day i fish) when i’ve promised to be home at a certain time and i’m pushing it, i say to myself "just one more fish and i’ll go." Then, if i catch that fish right away, i KEEP FISHING.  Invevitably that’s the last fish anyway.  My favorite days are when i catch that last fish, release it, and then put my fly on the keeper and hike back to my truck without another cast.  Better to keep the promises, including the ones you make to yourself. And now back to presidential politics.  Yahoo. bruce h Before you buy.

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Willi, well, I agree with your general ideas here.  Good post. However, doesnt anyone fish anymore for the groupies?  I know that is my main drive.  Chicks just love a guy who fishes.  My extensive fan club and appearances in leading fashion magazines is testament to that. Now then, where is my medication…. ewdin – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The reason people fish varies from person to person and also seems to change over time. I know it has for me. When I was younger, I used to fish with an intensity that shut out everything around me in my quest to get just one more fish. Very goal oriented. Over time, I’ve become much more relaxed, especially on my home waters. I spend much of my time walking and observing, seeking a small piece of harmony with the nature world to replace the separation that is forced upon us by our overly busy modern lives. The splash of a trout chasing a caddis. The rich aroma of pine. The warmth of the sun on cool morning. The greenness of a forest in early Spring. The pungent taste of a wild raspberry. Simple pleasures for a simple man. Willi "the crybaby" Loehman

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Question:

<snip Ha ha!  Another one hooked!  Congratulations Tim.  I’ve had some success with walleyes using heavily weighted wooly buggers.  Olive or white.  Give em a try some time.

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Way back when I asked for tips on fly rodding for walleye. Well I did no good! : ) But the other day I was fishing for smallies with black clousers, when I got what I thought was a snagged twig. When I got it in it was a 20" Walleye. In 20 minutes I caught three more. So happy I was. Did the dance of joy all night long. Never thought I would get so excited about catching a few walleyes. Well just wanted to share. Tim Apple

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Never thought I would get so excited about catching a few walleyes. Well just wanted to share.

Cool, and thanks for sharing. — Charlie…

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… Well just wanted to share.

I don’t suppose you’d want to share "where" ? Just kidding, sounds like fun, Tim. Thanks. — Ken Fortenberry Illini 1 – Tar Heels 0

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Question:

 I am going to be on the East Coast in May, and am looking for information on where to fish in the Catskills ( or anything nearby).  Is it possible to avoid the crowds at that time of year. I will only  be able to fish for a couple of days. Any advice will be greatly  appreciated.

Catskills fly fishing for trout opens late April (Adirondacks late May) and there may be migratory shad in Delaware R. &c.  Some people like this season best (before mosquitoes appear) but popular locations can be crowded. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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where to fish in the Catskills ( or anything nearby). Any advice will be greatly  appreciated.

Chuck, the Catskills cover quite a sizeable chunk of Geography. Do you know where exactly you’ll be in that area? I have a cousin back there who guides on the Esopus, the Schoharie, Westkill, and some other small backcountry streams. He’s not a high-priced guide, in fact, he works for damn near nothing, but don’t  tell him I told you so. His greatest joy in showing off his streams to fly fishermen – and women. He lives in Catskill, but will be in Florida til early March I think. I can give you his number if you’re interested. Regards, Dennis

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 I am going to be on the East Coast in May, and am looking for information on where to fish in the Catskills ( or anything nearby).  Is it possible to avoid the crowds at that time of year. I will only  be able to fish for a couple of days. Any advice will be greatly  appreciated. Thanks, Chuck Remove nospam when replying by e-mail

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I am going to be on the East Coast in May, and am looking for information on where to fish in the Catskills ( or anything nearby). Is it possible to avoid the crowds at that time of year. I will only be able to fish for a couple of days. Any advice will be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Chuck Remove nospam when replying by e-mail

The Catskills will opkay in May but the fishing isn’t as good as it could be.  If youare coming east ou should come to NC where the weather in May is beautiful and we fish for striped bass and get around 100 or so gish per man per day on Deceivers and other types of streamers.  Check out my website for all the info. — Flyfish NC                                                   Gordon Churchill                                        http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Rapids/3853                                                                     Dragon’s Hope Publishing Heidi Dragon Churchill                                               Business cards, ad design, forms and all manner of desktop publishing.      

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Question:

   To All;   I have been asked by some in my tying classes , what 5 things makes up a High Quality Fly. The question is valid and would like to hear what the ROFF group may say.    Harry

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  To All;  I have been asked by some in my tying classes , what 5 things makes up a High Quality Fly. The question is valid and would like to hear what the ROFF group may say.   Harry

Hi Harry, I offer my ideas regarding the 5 things that make a high quality fly from my perspective, a commercial fly tier: 1. Durability – quality materials, strong hook, etc. 2. Proper proportions, tail length, hackle, etc. 3. Attractive to the fly fisher 4. Attractive to the fish 5. Will sell It will be interesting to see what other fly tiers/fisher think. Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

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   To All;   I have been asked by some in my tying classes , what 5 things makes up a High Quality Fly. The question is valid and would like to hear what the ROFF group may say.    Harry

Harry,         Here’s my list of the five characteristics of a good quality fly: Durability – It has to last.  This isn’t art for art’s sake. Ease of tying – The point is to go fishing sometime this century.  I         lose enough flies that I need to tie more than one per day. Bugginess – Oh, that elusive quality.  If it doesn’t "look buggy" it         probably will never get tied on my tippet.  I’ve carried flies         for years that just don’t get a rise out of me. Availability of Ingredients – Part of this is my frugality.  But, part         is my ecological awareness.  If I’m going to have to spend         my tying and fishing time tracking down materials, I’m outta         here. Catches Fish – Course, before I know this, I’ve tracked down the         materials, easily tied the fly, am confident in its durability,         and have tied it on my tippet.  But, hey, this is what we’re         doing this for, isn’t it? Charley

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  To All;  I have been asked by some in my tying classes , what 5 things makes up a High Quality Fly. The question is valid and would like to hear what the ROFF group may say.   Harry

Reply Never counted my reasons. 1. Do I enjoy tying the fly? 2. Does it REALLY require all of those materials that I don’t have? Can I sub. and    still have a good looking fly that will work. 3. Do I have confidence in the fly. 4. Do I need another fly like this one. How many of this type do I already carry that    I don’t use now. 5. And back to # 1. If I like to tie the fly thats what matters. I’m here for just      the fun.  CU, Steve Birkes Buckner, Mo.

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  To All;  I have been asked by some in my tying classes , what 5 things makes up a High Quality Fly. The question is valid and would like to hear what the ROFF group may say.

I can boil it down to just three things: 1.  It has to catch fish. 2.  It has to catch fish. 3.  It has to catch fish. Larry H.

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I fish mainly in still waters and I fine one other quality to be of importance when tying.I like to call this Pulsability; giving the illusion of a bubbling, pulsating, swimming creature. John Hafner

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Harry, as a former pro tyer I would have to say it’s more a case of WHO makes a good fly. Style and expertise does not come to everyone, even if you have the correct materials for any given pattern.   To All;  I have been asked by some in my tying classes , what 5 things makes up a High Quality Fly. The question is valid and would like to hear what the ROFF group may say.   Harry

– dave tait

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I fish mainly in still waters and I fine one other quality to be of importance when tying.I like to call this Pulsability; giving the illusion of a bubbling, pulsating, swimming creature. John Hafner

A good fly should take less time to tie than it does to lose it.    -Ralph —

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  To All;  I have been asked by some in my tying classes , what 5 things makes up a High Quality Fly. The question is valid and would like to hear what the ROFF group may say.   Harry

1. proportion 2. balance 3. durability 4. castability 5. silouette these are what i shoot for when tying flies for stripers, etc. shade/color would probably come in 6th for me.                                                 jc

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        Does it catch fish?         That, essentially, is the bottom line.

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        Does it catch fish?         That, essentially, is the bottom line.

Yes, but,…… There are lots of flies out there that catch marlin, peacock bass, sharks, etc.  They catch fish, but are not a good fly for me.  I don’t get to sea too often.  And, when I do, I’m usually looking for salmon! So, now we have to add the delimiter, "Does it catch the fish I’m after?". This is such a complex question! :^) Charley

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –         Does it catch fish?         That, essentially, is the bottom line. Yes, but,…… There are lots of flies out there that catch marlin, peacock bass, sharks, etc.  They catch fish, but are not a good fly for me.  I don’t get to sea too often.  And, when I do, I’m usually looking for salmon! So, now we have to add the delimiter, "Does it catch the fish I’m after?". This is such a complex question! :^) Charley

Hi Charley, Good point Charley! My flies always catch the fish I’m after IF i’m telling the story.?! Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

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Al Beatty said: Hi Charley, Good point Charley! My flies always catch the fish I’m after IF i’m telling the story.?!

Cheers for Al’s honesty.  I will add that if they don’t, I damn quick change the story. Dick Hubbard

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   To All;   I have been asked by some in my tying classes , what 5 things makes up a High Quality Fly. The question is valid and would like to hear what the ROFF group may say.    Harry

Harry: 1. Ease of tying: most of us fit fly tying between the responsibilities work, running a home, and the ten o’clock news. Functional patterns are not necessarily a compromise. You can crank out a dozen brown-hackle-peacocks or BWO compara duns in the time it takes to tie half-as-many extended body paradrakes. This is not to say you don’t need extended body paradrakes–just save the more involved patterns for those rare occasions when you have a few hours to spend on the vice. 2. Proportions and technique: Spend time understanding how to size hackle and dimension tails; without such understanding, you can easily turn a humpy into a spider. Study A. K. Best’s "Production Fly Tying." He explains technique in this book, not recipes for ties (this book is made most valuable as a reference source: when you’re lashing down a moose mane tail, you can consult the book for a brief technique refresher before you begin, and your flies look a little better for your trouble). 3. Materials: Garbage in, garbage out. Webby dry fly hackle, too soft biots, it doesn’t matter. There’s nothing you can do to disguise poor materials. 4. Hooks: I used to recycle hooks but quit when I discovered that hooks grow weaker in boxes–every time your fly box gets submerged, the hooks will weaken from rust, particularly where the bend enters foam. I prefer Tiemco (particularly the 200R) and Daichi hooks. 5. Bottom Line: tie patterns that have proved their worth on the waters you fish. While just about any pattern will work at one time or another, there are a lot of useless diversions out there. Get to know old timers and knowledgable guides. They’ll turn you on to patterns you won’t find in books. Mitch Mulhall

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –    To All;   I have been asked by some in my tying classes , what 5 things makes up a High Quality Fly. The question is valid and would like to hear what the ROFF group may say.    Harry Harry: 1. Ease of tying: most of us fit fly tying between the responsibilities work, running a home, and the ten o’clock news. Functional patterns are not necessarily a compromise. You can crank out a dozen brown-hackle-peacocks or BWO compara duns in the time it takes to tie half-as-many extended body paradrakes. This is not to say you don’t need extended body paradrakes–just save the more involved patterns for those rare occasions when you have a few hours to spend on the vice. 2. Proportions and technique: Spend time understanding how to size hackle and dimension tails; without such understanding, you can easily turn a humpy into a spider. Study A. K. Best’s "Production Fly Tying." He explains technique in this book, not recipes for ties (this book is made most valuable as a reference source: when you’re lashing down a moose mane tail, you can consult the book for a brief technique refresher before you begin, and your flies look a little better for your trouble). 3. Materials: Garbage in, garbage out. Webby dry fly hackle, too soft biots, it doesn’t matter. There’s nothing you can do to disguise poor materials. 4. Hooks: I used to recycle hooks but quit when I discovered that hooks grow weaker in boxes–every time your fly box gets submerged, the hooks will weaken from rust, particularly where the bend enters foam. I prefer Tiemco (particularly the 200R) and Daichi hooks. 5. Bottom Line: tie patterns that have proved their worth on the waters you fish. While just about any pattern will work at one time or another, there are a lot of useless diversions out there. Get to know old timers and knowledgable guides. They’ll turn you on to patterns you won’t find in books. Mitch Mulhall

  To Mitch and all who took the time to reply, thank you !!  I will take these notes to the start of yet another class Thursday night.   Again Thanks    Harry

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Question:

How is the number 3 Hoffman for size 16 thru 24?  The Metz number 2s have them, but not in large quantities.

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The #3 Hoffmans are excellent in these sizes.  And you won’t believe the length of the stems.

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How is the number 3 Hoffman for size 16 thru 24?  The Metz number 2s have them, but not in large quantities.

Don’t know about the Hoffmans, but the Metz #1 are loaded!  I had lots of 22’s over 1 inch long.   A sunny day,      a box of midges,         and a wandering stream…   Man, this MUST be heaven!   <    Steve Kulpa    <<

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How is the number 3 Hoffman for size 16 thru 24?  The Metz number 2s have them, but not in large quantities. Don’t know about the Hoffmans, but the Metz #1 are loaded!  I had lots of 22’s over 1 inch long.  A sunny day,     a box of midges,        and a wandering stream…  Man, this MUST be heaven!  <    Steve Kulpa    <<

From what I have heard and seen, the Hoffman #3 grade is equivalent to a Metz #1.  I know this is true on saddles from personal experience.   It just makes me wonder how good a Hoffman #1 neck would be!!! Tom Cavitt

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I own several metz and several Hoffman necks.  I can’t believe how much better the Hoffmans are than the Metz necks.  A number 3 Hoffman is a superior neck to a number 1 metz any day and far cheaper.

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I own several metz and several Hoffman necks.  I can’t believe how much better the Hoffmans are than the Metz necks.  A number 3 Hoffman is a superior neck to a number 1 metz any day and far cheaper.

I’ve read this and I couldn’t resist the impression that you have been blended by the number of feathers and their relativly low price. I’ve been a user of both Metz and Hoffman for some years now, and I DO see the difference between these two neck-types. Hoffman hackel is much more stiffer than Metz, they are very often U-formed – which makes parachute fly tying quite difficult. So .. to the point. In my opinion both brands are good as all purpose hackle. But Metz (in my humble opinion) gives you flexibility of use – no matter classification.

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been blended by the number of feathers and their relativly low price. I’ve been a user of both Metz and Hoffman for some years now, and I DO see the difference between these two neck-types. Hoffman hackel is much more stiffer than Metz, they are very often U-formed – which makes parachute fly tying quite difficult. So .. to the point. In my opinion both brands are good as all purpose hackle. But Metz (in my humble opinion) gives you flexibility of use – no matter classification. Well, the feathers are really flying now.  The idea that a Metz neck is better than a Hoffman for parachute tying could only be described as bird-brained.  Hoffman hackles are long and the stems are flexible, both essential characteristics for parachute patterns.  In my humble opinion they result in far neater flies than the Metz, and my parachute flies have certainly improved since I’ve switched over.  In fact, I have a #1 metz rooster neck in a medium dun that I will gladly sell for $30.00 (I’ve plucked less than two-dozen feathers between #14-18 on the neck)  so I can put the money toward a #3 Hoffman.  Any of you Metz fans can reach me at my E-mail address and make an offer.

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says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -We sigh over the good old days, but… I still have many of the old Indian and Phillipine rooster necks that I bought during the sixties when I was learning to tie.  These were "first quality"  necks that sold for $4-$10 each depending mostly on color. Necks that aren’t worthy to share the same chicken ranch, let alone coop, with a #3 Metz or Hoffman.  Of course the color selection was quite limited–a dun neck was an extreme rarity, especially one in dry-fly quality.  $10 for a mediocre domestic grizzly neck in 1969 (if you could find one at all) is probably about the same as $60-$70 for a superb #1 grizzly today… …you can have the good old days. Thanks Mr. Hoffman, Mr. Metz, and all the others who are producing the best hackle ever Sean Barry

I solved most of my expensive hackle problems.  I tie and use almost exclusively the Comparadun style.  Easy to tie, floats  like a cork and seem to take trout as well as any Mayfly tied in the tradtional manner. Les

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:                       Man, what a difference! : Now to get a brown one … I just bought my first #1 Hoffman a few weeks ago: a beautiful fiery brown!  As you say, it’s a great treat to work with the best.  I’ll never buy anything less (well, hardly ever). — Laboratory for Applied Logic    Dept. of Computer Science University of Idaho             www: http://www.cs.uidaho.edu/~foster

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We sigh over the good old days, but… I still have many of the old Indian and Phillipine rooster necks that I bought during the sixties when I was learning to tie.  These were "first quality"  necks that sold for $4-$10 each depending mostly on color. Necks that aren’t worthy to share the same chicken ranch, let alone coop, with a #3 Metz or Hoffman.  Of course the color selection was quite limited–a dun neck was an extreme rarity, especially one in dry-fly quality.  $10 for a mediocre domestic grizzly neck in 1969 (if you could find one at all) is probably about the same as $60-$70 for a superb #1 grizzly today… …you can have the good old days. Thanks Mr. Hoffman, Mr. Metz, and all the others who are producing the best hackle ever Sean Barry

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I just opened my first Metz #1 neck the other day, and what a treat! I bought it last month when I was at my favorite fly shop cuz it just struck my eye.  A nice dark grizzly, real full and heavy.  I just sold the owner of the shop $70 worth of flys, so I went ahead and got it, even though I had no immeadiate use for it yet.  I still had a lot on my current #2 neck, so I just packed it away for later.  Well, the other night I needed some #20s and my current neck was out of ‘em, so I got out the new one and opened it up.                      Man, what a difference!

[snip] Steve: If somehow a #1 Herbert ever makes it out your way, take a good look at one of those critters. My second choice (and close behind the Hebert) would be Hoffman. Check out the flatness and suppleness of the stems, and check the barb count/stiffness on these two producers’ chickens, and compare them against the Metz. I won’t say that it’ll put a #1 Metz to shame (that would be cruel ;^) but suffice to say that I haven’t bought a Metz in many years once the Hebert’s and Hoffman’s became available out my way… /dave <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< < Digital Equipment Corp.    Alpha Server Engineering  < <           "Read this and nobody gets hurt"           < <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

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Jim,         In flyfishing, when we tie our own flies, we use the feathers from roosters for the hackle.  There are a number of fine folks who expend great quantities of money and effort to raise above average plummage for our addiction.  Once raised, they are graded and sold on the basis of their appropriateness to tying.  A number one (#1) neck indicates a slab of skin from the shoulder, neck, and head area of a rooster, bearing a high count of feathers having sufficient length, stiffness of barbules (those little things sticking out from the quill), and smallness of barbules to qualify for a top rating.  It is normally considered appropriate for use in tying a large number of very small dry flies.  A number two (#2) neck may have fewer smaller feathers or fewer barbules, or a problems with color.  It is still useful, just not best.  A number three (#3) is probably getting pretty webby and may only tie wet flies– lacking the stiffness to float a fly on its barbules.  The "neck" designation is to distinguish from a "saddle"– the back part of a bird (where you’d put a saddle if you wanted to ride it).  Saddles are generally considered appropriate for larger flies and often display the stiffness and barbule count of quality necks.  Hoffman and Metz both have demonstrated that saddles can be produced that are suitable for smaller flies.  Saddle feathers are generally much longer than neck feathers and somewhat less expensive. Hope that helps. Charley

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I just opened my first Metz #1 neck the other day, and what a treat! I bought it last month when I was at my favorite fly shop cuz it just struck my eye.  A nice dark grizzly, real full and heavy.  I just sold the owner of the shop $70 worth of flys, so I went ahead and got it, even though I had no immeadiate use for it yet.  I still had a lot on my current #2 neck, so I just packed it away for later.  Well, the other night I needed some #20s and my current neck was out of ‘em, so I got out the new one and opened it up.                       Man, what a difference! The top of the neck is LOADED with #20’s!  I picked out thirty or so and still have lots left, and most are 1 – 1.5 inches long.  I can’t even guess at the number of 22s.  I think I lucked out and got an exceptional #1.  I’m now convinced that #1’s are the way to go, providing you have a chance to look them over.  Now and then an exceptional one will come along. Now to get a brown one … Steve P.S.  Mr. Lum, I thought you’d like hearing this story!   A sunny day,      a box of midges,         and a wandering stream…   Man, this MUST be heaven!   <    Steve Kulpa    <<

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Steve,         What’s a Metz #1 neck? I don’t speak ff so good yet.                                                         Jim

: I just opened my first Metz #1 neck the other day, and what a treat! : I bought it last month when I was at my favorite fly shop cuz it : just struck my eye.  A nice dark grizzly, real full and heavy.  I : just sold the owner of the shop $70 worth of flys, so I went ahead : and got it, even though I had no immeadiate use for it yet.  I : still had a lot on my current #2 neck, so I just packed it away for : later.  Well, the other night I needed some #20s and my current neck : was out of ‘em, so I got out the new one and opened it up. :                       Man, what a difference! : The top of the neck is LOADED with #20’s!  I picked out thirty or so : and still have lots left, and most are 1 – 1.5 inches long.  I can’t : even guess at the number of 22s.  I think I lucked out and got an : exceptional #1.  I’m now convinced that #1’s are the way to go, : providing you have a chance to look them over.  Now and then an : exceptional one will come along. : Now to get a brown one … : Steve : P.S.  Mr. Lum, I thought you’d like hearing this story! :   :   A sunny day, :      a box of midges, :         and a wandering stream… :   Man, this MUST be heaven! :   <    Steve Kulpa    <<

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Question:

Hi Mike With out a doubt you should fish Oatka Creek just south of Rochester. I have had extremely good times on that creek. A shop called Carl Coleman Sporting Goods in Spencerport, just west of Rochester has various maps of the areas streams and creeks that are fishable. Carls shop is a somewhat good one. Say Hi to him from me. He can set you up with the correct flies and any other equipment. He has about 5 bamboo rods that I am trying to get off of him but he is always fishing when I call.   No more than a 5 wgt is needed on the majority of the inland creeks and lakes. If you are going for some Steelheads then you will need a 6-9 wgt rod. I use a 2 wgt rod on Oatka and have a ball using it.   The Genesee River is not doing real well for the past 3 years or so. Catch you later Mike & Marie

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Mike: Oatka Creek (West of Rochester) is great in early May. The Henrickson hatch can be fantastic. Another place to try in the Rochester area is Spring Creek in Mumford (it empties into the Oatka). Also, Irondequoit Creek is on the other side of Rochester (East Side). Carl Coleman’s Fly Shop is located on the west side of town on 4786 W. Ridge Road. His phone number is 716-352-4775. Hope this helps. Bob Elliott

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I will be going home for the first time in a long time to Rochester.  I would like to fly fish streams, lakes and or ponds in the area. Potentially in the Finger Lakes area as well.  Any suggestions as tackle, location etc. would be of great help.  Thanks. Tight Lines, Michael Barnes

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Question:

Would the guy that posted about the Saltwater flyfishing trip for rockfish in the kelp beds off of Santa Cruz please followup with a valid email address?  I tried responding via email but it bounced.  I’m interested in the Livermore Flyfishers group that was mentioned. — John Fereira Pleasanton, CA

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That’s a numeral one after my name. Kent McCammon Lightwave Systems Engineer Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory Just another crash dummy on the information superhighway

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