Question:

We are approaching critical mass–and a dangerous time–that of sinking poll numbers for Bush, and the revelation of the proofs that the towers were hit by missles from specially outfitted planes, and the proof that the towers came down thru controlled demoliton. That’s more than enough proof.  The website http://www.letsroll911.org is ranked as among the top 25K downloaded sites on the Internet in the past month. But with these two events closing in on the Bush administration, the falling polls, and the complicity of 9/11 getting known, may trigger another attack, and the declaration of martial law, in order to cancel the election, shut down the Internet as we know it, and to clamp down on further discussion of 9/11. Some say we are already in a partial police state,  and some say we now more everything that has been said, the Congress, the military,  the media, does nothing.  Obviously they are persuaded to do nothing. http://www.911sharethetruth.com 9-11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB–OUR NATION IS IN PERIL       – A Call to All True Patriots –    We have actively studied the questionable nature of the official version of what happened to our nation on September 11, 2001. Throughout the first year after 9-11 we ignored and did not believe those who asked us to question the official story. Like millions of Americans we believed America had been attacked by terrorists from abroad. Sadly, we are now convinced that our government committed a vicious criminal act against its own citizens for the larger purpose of swaying us to support both domestic and foreign policies mapped out in the mid and late 1990’s. 9-11 was Hitler’s Reichstag fire of 1933 and Roosevelt’s Pearl Harbor masterfully coordinated to achieve the desired ends of an imperialistic role for America in the world, patriotic support at home and the erosion of our constitutional rights. In a nutshell, the war on terrorism is a cruel hoax by a misguided, out-of-democratic control small group of individuals sabotaging the best of American values. We are in the midst of a constitutional crisis combined with severe domination from an Orwellian corporate media knowingly or unknowingly being of service to the true powerbrokers behind the curtain. We feel like we are living in the "Matrix" where we can blend in, but knowing something is horribly wrong and must be exposed. The quality of life for all of our loved ones is at stake along with the hopes of millions of people for a world of peace, freedom and ecological sustainability. If just a few of you take the time to study a little more and become involved in the 9-11 truth movement we will be greatly appreciative. We strongly feel that people of all progressive movements should involve themselves in this effort to expose the truth about 9-11 and in the greatest push ever from the grassroots to nonviolently replace our current despotic leadership. It would have tremendous positive consequences to all of our progressive movements if similar to the fall of Nixon over Watergate that the Bush administration was exposed on this and replaced. This outrageous criminal act must be brought to justice and our freedoms restored. We need to reach out now to all those who may be willing to hear and break the silence. Go to site for posters, cassettes, buttons… http://www.911sharethetruth.com

Response:

We are approaching critical mass–and a dangerous time–that of sinking poll numbers for Bush, and the revelation of the proofs that the towers were hit by missles from specially outfitted planes, and the proof that the towers came down thru controlled demoliton. That’s more than enough proof.  The website http://www.letsroll911.org is ranked as among the top 25K downloaded sites on the Internet in the past month.

Yep, it was an inside job….the planes blew up INSIDE the buildings. Gee, you are so smart.  You are right about specially outfitted planes… aircraft slamming into the side of a building would go in just like a missle.  And correct again about the controlled demolition…those terrorists must have been really skilled to be able to CONTROL the way they demolished the buildings. By the way numbnuts, watch the footage again.  The buildings did not collapse starting from the bottom.  A controlled demolition would not have been done in the basement, but would have needed to take out at least a dozen floors with the size of the buildings and taken at least a week to plan, and implement.  I think people would have gotten just a mite suspicious with work crews cutting through the structural pilings, setting shaped charges and running primer cord throughout the buildings. The quality of the steel made back when the towers were constructed was poor compared to today.  The structural tolerance was quite low.  The intense heat would collapse the pilings.  And the weight exerted by the upper floors would and did cause the lower ones to fail, causing a cascade failure.  The only way the building would have toppled is if the lower pilings were strong enough to hold back the collapsing upper floors and deflect the path of the fall.  But, as we all saw, it did not. Cease and decist your trolling.  People are getting sick of your freakish extremist "moveon.orgism". GO AWAY!!!!     *PLONK*

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We are approaching critical mass–and a dangerous time–that of sinking poll numbers for Bush, and the revelation of the proofs that the towers were hit by missles from specially outfitted planes, and the proof that the towers came down thru controlled demoliton. That’s more than enough proof.  The website http://www.letsroll911.org is ranked as among the top 25K downloaded sites on the Internet in the past month. But with these two events closing in on the Bush administration, the falling polls, and the complicity of 9/11 getting known, may trigger another attack, and the declaration of martial law, in order to cancel the election, shut down the Internet as we know it, and to clamp down on further discussion of 9/11. Some say we are already in a partial police state,  and some say we now more everything that has been said, the Congress, the military,  the media, does nothing.  Obviously they are persuaded to do nothing. Yup – and yet the media still refuses to even question the wacko bush conspriracy explanation for 9-11.  Thank gof for the net or it would truly be hopeless.

What does gof have to do with anything. — Retired military and damn proud of it.

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Yup – and yet the media still refuses to even question the wacko bush conspriracy explanation for 9-11.  Thank gof for the net or it would truly be hopeless. Indeed.  Being uncensored,

Free press would also be uncensored.                                       the net provides the ideal soapbox for every paranoid conspiracy theorist who knows how to use a keyboard.

Which does not mean that everything on the net or in ng’s that does not conform to your beliefs is conspiracy theory. Expressions like "conspiracy theory" appeal to the irrational side of people, and so serve only to cloud the issues. The official story of 9/11 is also a conspiracy theory: several people conspired to execute the attacks; and the story is no more than a theory because there is only precious little evidence to support it. And of all the conspiracy theories so far presented, the official story is among the silliest. Matti P.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Which does not mean that everything on the net or in ng’s that does not conform to your beliefs is conspiracy theory. This is true.  Yet, just because it does not conform to my beliefs does not automatically mean that it is accurate. Expressions like "conspiracy theory" appeal to the irrational side of people, and so serve only to cloud the issues. The official story of 9/11 is also a conspiracy theory: several people conspired to execute the attacks; and the story is no more than a theory because there is only precious little evidence to support it. Perhaps then I should have used the full term "paranoid conspiracy theory" – addressing those ideas that attempt to explain facts that have already been explained, but in a far more bizarre and usually convoluted manner that reassures the wannabe Fox Mulder that The Truth Really Is Out There, and that THEY do not want you to know about it.  It is really only a desire on the part of the theorist to demonstrate their ability to outwit THEM, despite all the barriers THEY supposedly put in the theorists’ way.

I understood your point; just wanted to clarify terms. And of all the conspiracy theories so far presented, the official story is among the silliest. Oh, by no means.  In my experience, by far the silliest theory yet put forward is by the Paranoid Conspiracy Theorists (PCTs) themselves.

Please note: I said "among the silliest", not "the silliest". Matti P. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -This is the notion that the attack on the Pentagon was carried out not by a terrorist in a hijacked 767, but by a remote-controlled drone plane or missile, packed with explosives and painted (this is priceless) in American Airlines livery to fool onlookers (who presumably cannot tell the difference between a liner and a missile or fighter), whilst the actual 767 was landed at an airport nearby having been flown OVER the Pentagon in the confusion.  The passengers were later ‘disappeared’ by the CIA. There are more holes in this ludicrous ‘explanation’ than in a standard fishing net – and yet it is passed reverently from PCT to PCT as though it is some holy gospel of truth.  In comparison to that, at least to those who have even the slightest grip on the real world, the official line, whilst perhaps open to question in some areas, seems to make far more sense. — Midjis

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Which does not mean that everything on the net or in ng’s that does not conform to your beliefs is conspiracy theory. This is true.  Yet, just because it does not conform to my beliefs does not automatically mean that it is accurate. Expressions like "conspiracy theory" appeal to the irrational side of people, and so serve only to cloud the issues. The official story of 9/11 is also a conspiracy theory: several people conspired to execute the attacks; and the story is no more than a theory because there is only precious little evidence to support it. Perhaps then I should have used the full term "paranoid conspiracy theory" – addressing those ideas that attempt to explain facts that have already been explained, but in a far more bizarre and usually convoluted manner that reassures the wannabe Fox Mulder that The Truth Really Is Out There, and that THEY do not want you to know about it.  It is really only a desire on the part of the theorist to demonstrate their ability to outwit THEM, despite all the barriers THEY supposedly put in the theorists’ way. And of all the conspiracy theories so far presented, the official story is among the silliest. Oh, by no means.  In my experience, by far the silliest theory yet put forward is by the Paranoid Conspiracy Theorists (PCTs) themselves.  This is the notion that the attack on the Pentagon was carried out not by a terrorist in a hijacked 767, but by a remote-controlled drone plane or missile, packed with explosives and painted (this is priceless) in American Airlines livery to fool onlookers (who presumably cannot tell the difference between a liner and a missile or fighter), whilst the actual 767 was landed at an airport nearby having been flown OVER the Pentagon in the confusion.  The passengers were later ‘disappeared’ by the CIA. There are more holes in this ludicrous ‘explanation’ than in a standard fishing net – and yet it is passed reverently from PCT to PCT as though it is some holy gospel of truth.  In comparison to that, at least to those who have even the slightest grip on the real world, the official line, whilst perhaps open to question in some areas, seems to make far more sense. — Midjis

But there is conclusive physical evidence that no 767 hit the Pentagon, in fact no evidence of fusilage of any plane found.. The fact that two, one piece that does not match photographed on the lawn points to conspiracy. There was no American Airlines flight 77 scheduled to fly that day. There is conclusive physical evididence that no  passenger jet plane hit the 1st tower or penetrated it. {The film shown shown the following day  9/12, was  crudely edited.  You can see it by looking for the evidence "first plane")  There is only three small holes in the building, none greater that a few feet. There was no American Airlines flight 11 scheduled to fly that day.  What few eye witnesses say a very small plane, holding no more than 10-12 seats, or "a missle with wings".  Check out the examination of that flight and the photos  on thewebfairy.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The sheer volume of web articles devoted to the idea that there is ‘conclusive physical evidence’ of anything of the sort is absolutely staggering.  Particularly since there is no such evidence. Patently false. Yes, it is easy to say that, is it not?  But I would be interested to see you provide some of this supposed evidence – and try to do slightly better than the photos you directed me to in the other thread. — Midjis ~~ ama semper quisquis noces

Blow me.

Response:

The sheer volume of web articles devoted to the idea that there is ‘conclusive physical evidence’ of anything of the sort is absolutely staggering.  Particularly since there is no such evidence. Patently false. Yes, it is easy to say that, is it not?  But I would be interested to see you provide some of this supposed evidence – and try to do slightly better than the photos you directed me to in the other thread.

http://www.aeronautics.ru/img/img006/sweetdeal_title.jpg This one doesn’t NECCESARILY prove anything, other than that a KC-767 prototype did in fact exist, but it’s very telling nevertheless. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — Midjis ~~ ama semper quisquis noces

Response:

Question:

I have the Renzetti Travler (pedestal) and really like it.

Ditto. Joe F.

Response:

I have the Renzetti Travler (pedestal) and really like it. Ditto.

Ditto ditto. I also have the C clamp base. I use that at home and the pedestal when I travel. — Charlie…

Response:

I have the Renzetti Travler (pedestal) and really like it. Ditto. Ditto ditto. I also have the C clamp base. I use that at home and the pedestal when I travel.

For an economical, non-rotary vise, I started with the Griffin 2A.   A nice vise for not much money.   It’s worth mentioning in light of Charlie’s post that the clamp base for the Griffin and the pedestal base for the Renzetti are interchangeable between the two vises. Joe F.

Response:

I have the Renzetti Travler (pedestal) and really like it.

I have the heavy-duty version of the Renzetti Traveler. I think it’s called the "Saltwater" model, but I’m not sure. Anyway, it gives me the flexibility to tie big steelhead flies, but it still works OK for small flies. I recommend the pedestal version. You can always fix it to your table with a small C-clamp.

Response:

[posted and mailed] [snip] So what vise guys. Sorry I copied and pasted the llink. Bill I have the Renzetti Travler (pedestal) and really like it.

FWIW (for the Western New England contingent), I just got back from BG Sporting Goods in Westfield, MA and all of their vises are 20% off, which makes their price on the Traveler with cam and pedestal base about $125.00. They also had some nice STH reels at 50% off. — TL, Tim

Response:

Joe F. writes: I have the Renzetti Travler (pedestal) and really like it. Ditto. Joe F.

Ditto Dave

Response:

I would recommend the Orvis rotary.

Second that George Adams "All good fishermen stay young until they die, for fishing is the only dream of youth that doth not grow stale with age."                                                           —- J.W Muller

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [posted and mailed] [snip] So what vise guys. Sorry I copied and pasted the llink. Bill I have the Renzetti Travler (pedestal) and really like it. Paul

Another vote here for the Traveler Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So what vise guys. Sorry I copied and pasted the llink. Alright, let’s not get snippy A Renzetti Presentation would be excellent and won’t cost you your left nut… /daytripper Don’t you mean Renzetti Traveler? At $325 the Presentation is approaching the left nut range.

WTF – did they go and rename the product line? Or did all those years of Reagan-era inflation triple the price? The Presentation I have sitting on my desk went for all of $130 when I bought it… /daytripper (nonplussed!

Response:

So what vise guys.

Oh, vise guys, is it? Listen kiddo ve vas fly fishin ven your mama vas feedin you on prechewed gefilte fish!  HAH! Wolfgang i’ll give ya vise guys!    :(

Response:

Don’t you mean Renzetti Traveler? At $325 the Presentation is approaching the left nut range. WTF – did they go and rename the product line? Or did all those years of Reagan-era inflation triple the price? The Presentation I have sitting on my desk went for all of $130 when I bought it… /daytripper (nonplussed!

and in what era was that?  The Pleistocene? Peter (who paid more for his in deflated Northern Pesos)

Response:

My folks gave me a Regal for Christmas about 15 years ago. Have never had a problem, still using it today. Mine is a little different than this newer model, (no swivel head) but the jaws are pretty much the same. Great vise! http://www.worleybuggerflyco.com/flytyingtools/Regal_Vises.htm Good luck, JRT – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So what vise guys. Sorry I copied and pasted the llink. Bill

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[posted and mailed] [snip] So what vise guys. Sorry I copied and pasted the llink. Bill

I have the Renzetti Travler (pedestal) and really like it. Paul

Response:

(I can be pretty abusive).  

Though, from what I’ve read here, you are mostly self-abusive. Kevin Wait, that doesn’t sound right…

Response:

So what vise guys. Sorry I copied and pasted the llink. Alright, let’s not get snippy A Renzetti Presentation would be excellent and won’t cost you your left nut… /daytripper

Don’t you mean Renzetti Traveler? At $325 the Presentation is approaching the left nut range. Paul

Response:

I would choose flyfishing over drinking, doing drugs, cheating on your spouse, or collecting beanie babies . . . but that’s just my opinion. Memphis Jim

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think I have it narrowed down to these. I will have to have pedestal base. So when pricing I have just added it in. I like these over at: www.hookhackle.com STANDARD VISES AA vise left and Super II vise right A) AA Vise. Cam closing. Adjustable height. Ideal starter vise for beginners.Item No. 6AAVISE B) Super II Rotating Vise. C-clamp. Black finish. Lever action. Knob on side of vise allows full 360 degree rotation. Jaws will handle hooks in range of 4/0 to 22. Adjustable height and angle. This is a top quality vise and our favorite! Item No. 9408103

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 2 .00 PEDESTAL BASE Designed for the vises above, but can be used with any 3/8" stemmed vise. Over at: www.cabelas.com I like their vises, kind of leaning toward the Atlantic http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/pod/horizontal- pod.jhtml;jsessio

nid=DYSOZMKXN0VA0CWQNVECFFAK0BWUMIV0?id=0011423&navAction=push&navCount=9&i n

dexId=cat20534&parentId=cat20534&parentType=index&rid=&_DARGS=%2Fcabelas%2F e n%2Fcommon%2Fcatalog%2Fpod- link.jhtml.2_A&_DAV=http%3A%2F%2Fa1460.g.akamai.n

et%2Fv%2F1460%2F1339%2F6h%2Fwww.cabelas.com%2Fcabelas%2Fen%2Fcontent%2FPod% – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 2 F01%2F14%2F23%2Fp011423ii01.jpg Please help me decide. I also like the Super 2 at hook and hackle Bill Mc — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

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So what vise guys. Sorry I copied and pasted the llink. Alright, let’s not get snippy A Renzetti Presentation would be excellent and won’t cost you your left nut… /daytripper

But still three times more than his highest-priced choice. Just slightly above your price range is the Thompson A Vise, at around $35- $40 at many fly shops. The advantage over all the vises Cabelas has on that page is a stellar reputation for being a very functional utilitarian vise that will last for years and years.  If anything on it breaks, its easily and cheaply replaceable, without buying a whole new vise. — Scott Reverse first field of address to reply

Response:

http://www.mossycreek.com/orvis_rotary.htm I would recommend the Orvis rotary.  I got the original of this, made by Danica while over in the UK.  Its not as pretty as a Renzetti, but its a vise that will be passed down and used by your great grand kids even after the most abusive use you can think of (I can be pretty abusive).  All this for only $80.  I’ve even gotten a couple of professional tiers to switch (Mike Martinek for one). — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think I have it narrowed down to these. I will have to have pedestal base. So when pricing I have just added it in. I like these over at: www.hookhackle.com STANDARD VISES AA vise left and Super II vise right A) AA Vise. Cam closing. Adjustable height. Ideal starter vise for beginners.Item No. 6AAVISE B) Super II Rotating Vise. C-clamp. Black finish. Lever action. Knob on side of vise allows full 360 degree rotation. Jaws will handle hooks in range of 4/0 to 22. Adjustable height and angle. This is a top quality vise and our favorite! Item No. 9408103 …2 2 .00 PEDESTAL BASE Designed for the vises above, but can be used with any 3/8" stemmed vise. Over at: www.cabelas.com I like their vises, kind of leaning toward the Atlantic http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/pod/horizontal- pod.jhtml;jsessio nid=DYSOZMKXN0VA0CWQNVECFFAK0BWUMIV0?id=0011423&navAction=push&navCount =9&i n dexId=cat20534&parentId=cat20534&parentType=index&rid=&_DARGS=%2Fcabela s%2F e n%2Fcommon%2Fcatalog%2Fpod- link.jhtml.2_A&_DAV=http%3A%2F%2Fa1460.g.akamai.n et%2Fv%2F1460%2F1339%2F6h%2Fwww.cabelas.com%2Fcabelas%2Fen%2Fcontent%2F Pod% 2 F01%2F14%2F23%2Fp011423ii01.jpg Please help me decide. I also like the Super 2 at hook and hackle Bill Mc That has to be the most effed-up url ever posted here…

Believe it or not, I just selected the whole deal in Xnews, right clicked and selected "Edit URL", hit OK, and it took me right to the page. Xnews rocks! — Scott Reverse first field of address to reply

Response:

So what vise guys. Sorry I copied and pasted the llink.

Alright, let’s not get snippy A Renzetti Presentation would be excellent and won’t cost you your left nut… /daytripper

Response:

 http://www.nor-vise.com/norviseinfo.html Best ever. Mr.G.

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[posted and mailed] – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Over at: www.cabelas.com I like their vises, kind of leaning toward the Atlantic http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/pod/horizontal- pod.jhtml;jsessio nid=DYSOZMKXN0VA0CWQNVECFFAK0BWUMIV0?id=0011423&navAction=push&navCount =9&i n dexId=cat20534&parentId=cat20534&parentType=index&rid=&_DARGS=%2Fcabela s%2F e n%2Fcommon%2Fcatalog%2Fpod- link.jhtml.2_A&_DAV=http%3A%2F%2Fa1460.g.akamai.n et%2Fv%2F1460%2F1339%2F6h%2Fwww.cabelas.com%2Fcabelas%2Fen%2Fcontent%2F Pod% 2 F01%2F14%2F23%2Fp011423ii01.jpg Gee, that link was easy to put back together!  Next time, try www.makeashorterlink.com http://makeashorterlink.com/?C30C24E62

So what vise guys. Sorry I copied and pasted the llink. Bill

Response:

Over at: www.cabelas.com I like their vises, kind of leaning toward the Atlantic http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/pod/horizontal- pod.jhtml;jsessio

nid=DYSOZMKXN0VA0CWQNVECFFAK0BWUMIV0?id=0011423&navAction=push&navCount=9&i n

dexId=cat20534&parentId=cat20534&parentType=index&rid=&_DARGS=%2Fcabelas%2F e n%2Fcommon%2Fcatalog%2Fpod- link.jhtml.2_A&_DAV=http%3A%2F%2Fa1460.g.akamai.n

et%2Fv%2F1460%2F1339%2F6h%2Fwww.cabelas.com%2Fcabelas%2Fen%2Fcontent%2FPod% 2 F01%2F14%2F23%2Fp011423ii01.jpg

Gee, that link was easy to put back together!  Next time, try www.makeashorterlink.com http://makeashorterlink.com/?C30C24E62

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think I have it narrowed down to these. I will have to have pedestal base. So when pricing I have just added it in. I like these over at: www.hookhackle.com STANDARD VISES AA vise left and Super II vise right A) AA Vise. Cam closing. Adjustable height. Ideal starter vise for beginners.Item No. 6AAVISE B) Super II Rotating Vise. C-clamp. Black finish. Lever action. Knob on side of vise allows full 360 degree rotation. Jaws will handle hooks in range of 4/0 to 22. Adjustable height and angle. This is a top quality vise and our favorite! Item No. 9408103 2 .00 PEDESTAL BASE Designed for the vises above, but can be used with any 3/8" stemmed vise. Over at: www.cabelas.com I like their vises, kind of leaning toward the Atlantic http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/pod/horizontal- pod.jhtml;jsessio nid=DYSOZMKXN0VA0CWQNVECFFAK0BWUMIV0?id=0011423&navAction=push&navCount=9& i n dexId=cat20534&parentId=cat20534&parentType=index&rid=&_DARGS=%2Fcabelas%2 F e n%2Fcommon%2Fcatalog%2Fpod- link.jhtml.2_A&_DAV=http%3A%2F%2Fa1460.g.akamai.n et%2Fv%2F1460%2F1339%2F6h%2Fwww.cabelas.com%2Fcabelas%2Fen%2Fcontent%2FPod% 2 F01%2F14%2F23%2Fp011423ii01.jpg Please help me decide. I also like the Super 2 at hook and hackle Bill Mc

That has to be the most effed-up url ever posted here…

Response:

I think I have it narrowed down to these. I will have to have pedestal base. So when pricing I have just added it in. I like these over at: www.hookhackle.com STANDARD VISES AA vise left and Super II vise right A) AA Vise. Cam closing. Adjustable height. Ideal starter vise for beginners.Item No. 6AAVISE B) Super II Rotating Vise. C-clamp. Black finish. Lever action. Knob on side of vise allows full 360 degree rotation. Jaws will handle hooks in range of 4/0 to 22. Adjustable height and angle. This is a top quality vise and our favorite! Item No. 9408103 2 .00 PEDESTAL BASE Designed for the vises above, but can be used with any 3/8" stemmed vise. Over at: www.cabelas.com I like their vises, kind of leaning toward the Atlantic http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/pod/horizontal- pod.jhtml;jsessio nid=DYSOZMKXN0VA0CWQNVECFFAK0BWUMIV0?id=0011423&navAction=push&navCount=9&i n dexId=cat20534&parentId=cat20534&parentType=index&rid=&_DARGS=%2Fcabelas%2F e n%2Fcommon%2Fcatalog%2Fpod- link.jhtml.2_A&_DAV=http%3A%2F%2Fa1460.g.akamai.n et%2Fv%2F1460%2F1339%2F6h%2Fwww.cabelas.com%2Fcabelas%2Fen%2Fcontent%2FPod% 2 F01%2F14%2F23%2Fp011423ii01.jpg Please help me decide. I also like the Super 2 at hook and hackle Bill Mc — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

Question:

A little update on some info.  I spoke to Jeffrey Cardenas (The Saltwater Angler, www.saltwaterangler.com) and they aren’t doing anything in Abacos currently, but this was suggested (with no comment, good or bad): www.abacoflyfish.com TC, R

LOL! My wife Googled that link up last week. One of the more glossy guide sites I’ve seen, but the prices are in line with the area from other stuff we’ve read… We’re planning on 10 days down there; I figure I’ll use a guide for a day or two and then see how I do on my own. From my admittedly limited experience, if you can see bonefish* the guide is just a boat driver. And the boat rental prices down there are very reasonable… * non-trivial, kinda like those dithered-to-death "stereo images", you either get it, or you utterly don’t. I was lucky and had no problem seeing the bones in Anegada, hopefully the water is as clear and the sand flats as clean in the Abacos… /daytripper (Now if I could just spring free to fish *this* month!)

Response:

Fabulous place Fell and broke my thumb the day before I had 2 days booked with a guide called sawyer ( I Think) – fortunately he had 2 novices waiting to go and who took my cancellation – both had bones 5lb + Enjoy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -The SO has proposed Green Turtle Cay in the Abacos for our annual island trip next April. She’s been seeing lots of positive bonefishing references so she figures it’s a lock for me to go along with her schemes We’d stay at the Green Turtle Club resort/marina, fwiw. http://www.greenturtleclub.com/ And I’m looking for anyone with any direct experience with the eastern Abaco islands, the Green Turtle Club, and more importantly, the fishing! Anyone out there ever been to this place? Anyone out there do any bonefishing in the Abacos Islands? Thanks for any feedback. /daytripper (got dem bonefishin’ jones

– Charles Reaves

Response:

From my admittedly limited experience, if you can see bonefish* the guide is just a boat driver. And the boat rental prices down there are very reasonable…

They are, but you need to know the area, tides, etc., to avoid a lot of fruitless searching, and avoid tide and wind situations.  Make sure to get charts and pay particular attention to wind and tide directions and tide times. * non-trivial, kinda like those dithered-to-death "stereo images", you either get it, or you utterly don’t. I was lucky and had no problem seeing the bones in Anegada, hopefully the water is as clear and the sand flats as clean in the Abacos…

It is at least as clear as the VI.  I once dropped a lighter off a dock in the Abacos, and it could be seen on the bottom (about 20 plus feet of water – I didn’t realize quite how deep until I got down there <G). I’ve got UW pics of palometa and bones are as clear as anything taken in a perfectly-maintained swimming pool. /daytripper (Now if I could just spring free to fish *this* month!)

Er, you might wanna wait to NEXT month or the spring…<G TC, R

Response:

From my admittedly limited experience, if you can see bonefish* the guide is just a boat driver. And the boat rental prices down there are very reasonable… They are, but you need to know the area, tides, etc., to avoid a lot of fruitless searching, and avoid tide and wind situations.  Make sure to get charts and pay particular attention to wind and tide directions and tide times.

That’s what the first couple of days out with the guide are for… I’ll order up charts, especially given the boat rental, I’ll have a gps and a tide table, and hopefully things will be clear enough after a couple of days out. Granted my shallow experience (<= feeble pun) but fishing for bones isn’t very high on the rocket science scale – there are a couple of key details about bones that quickly narrow down the places one should bother working, and after a few more web hits I’m starting to get the feel for how small and *close* together the Abacos are, so I’m reasonably confident that if there are fish to be had I’ll stumble onto ‘em before too long * non-trivial, kinda like those dithered-to-death "stereo images", you either get it, or you utterly don’t. I was lucky and had no problem seeing the bones in Anegada, hopefully the water is as clear and the sand flats as clean in the Abacos… It is at least as clear as the VI.  I once dropped a lighter off a dock in the Abacos, and it could be seen on the bottom (about 20 plus feet of water – I didn’t realize quite how deep until I got down there <G). I’ve got UW pics of palometa and bones are as clear as anything taken in a perfectly-maintained swimming pool.

Excellent! I might have to spring for an underwater digicam! More toys! /daytripper (Now if I could just spring free to fish *this* month!) Er, you might wanna wait to NEXT month or the spring…<G

end around here. /daytripper (A shrink could buy his next house on my tab…)

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – From my admittedly limited experience, if you can see bonefish* the guide is just a boat driver. And the boat rental prices down there are very reasonable… They are, but you need to know the area, tides, etc., to avoid a lot of fruitless searching, and avoid tide and wind situations.  Make sure to get charts and pay particular attention to wind and tide directions and tide times. That’s what the first couple of days out with the guide are for… I’ll order up charts, especially given the boat rental, I’ll have a gps and a tide table, and hopefully things will be clear enough after a couple of days out.

Weeel, it’s not _quite_ that simple.  You’ve got the potential for 4 foot changes, and it isn’t just knowing where, it’s knowing when and where, and where the fish are moving.  The "no-boat" flats, of course, are easy (and there are a coupla-several miles of these at GTC), but with a bare boat, it can get tricky insofar as being where you want/need to be when.   You might consider renting a boat for one day, you and the wife going for a ride, and getting familiar with things.  Then get a guide for a couple of days, and rent again for a couple of days (or more – check on a weekly rate – if so, you can avoid ferry schedules altogether, weather depending).  Plus, while only natives can officially guide you, anyone can go fishing with you, and if you have boat access the entire trip, meeting a few folks from cruising boats might be productive.  And you might want to take a lighter setup for palometa, etc. (little permits, sorta like saltwater panfish) during bonefish lulls, and take some steel wire, etc. for barracuda (highly recommended for sport and dinner). – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Granted my shallow experience (<= feeble pun) but fishing for bones isn’t very high on the rocket science scale – there are a couple of key details about bones that quickly narrow down the places one should bother working, and after a few more web hits I’m starting to get the feel for how small and *close* together the Abacos are, so I’m reasonably confident that if there are fish to be had I’ll stumble onto ‘em before too long * non-trivial, kinda like those dithered-to-death "stereo images", you either get it, or you utterly don’t. I was lucky and had no problem seeing the bones in Anegada, hopefully the water is as clear and the sand flats as clean in the Abacos… It is at least as clear as the VI.  I once dropped a lighter off a dock in the Abacos, and it could be seen on the bottom (about 20 plus feet of water – I didn’t realize quite how deep until I got down there <G). I’ve got UW pics of palometa and bones are as clear as anything taken in a perfectly-maintained swimming pool. Excellent! I might have to spring for an underwater digicam! More toys!

Fuji makes a disposable UW that actually works pretty good if you just want "quick and easy" – get them in the States.  Also, get a couple of decent but inexpensive masks and snorkels (also in the States) unless you are absolutely a "dry head."  And if you dive, DON’T take anything but Hawaiian slings (with extra tubing) – anything else is a no-no. TC, R

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That’s what the first couple of days out with the guide are for… I’ll order up charts, especially given the boat rental, I’ll have a gps and a tide table, and hopefully things will be clear enough after a couple of days out. Weeel, it’s not _quite_ that simple.  You’ve got the potential for 4 foot changes, and it isn’t just knowing where, it’s knowing when and where, and where the fish are moving.  The "no-boat" flats, of course, are easy (and there are a coupla-several miles of these at GTC), but with a bare boat, it can get tricky insofar as being where you want/need to be when.  

We’ll be getting the boat for the middle 7 days out of the 10 we’ll be there, looks like a 20-something foot Wellcraft CC with a 150 and t-top. Nice hefty boat – if it ends up high and dry at low tide it won’t be moved, that’s for sure. But we want to be able to roam freely for the duration, we usually take our own boat wherever we go on summer vacations, and it is usually at the center of the best times we have. I’ve been looking at satellite images of the area to the west of the reef through the island chain over to the big island and then on to the Marls, and it looks like flat water everywhere west of the reef would be the rule unless the weather is coming due north/south. You might consider renting a boat for one day, you and the wife going for a ride, and getting familiar with things.  Then get a guide for a couple of days, and rent again for a couple of days (or more – check on a weekly rate – if so, you can avoid ferry schedules altogether, weather depending).  Plus, while only natives can officially guide you, anyone can go fishing with you, and if you have boat access the entire trip, meeting a few folks from cruising boats might be productive.  And you might want to take a lighter setup for palometa, etc. (little permits, sorta like saltwater panfish) during bonefish lulls, and take some steel wire, etc. for barracuda (highly recommended for sport and dinner).

Are there any actual permits/licences one must obtain for fishing – either on foot or in a boat? That’s usually something I forget until the last day – so I’m getting a bit of a jump on things this time… /daytripper (might actually go fishing this weekend! Whoa!

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That’s what the first couple of days out with the guide are for… I’ll order up charts, especially given the boat rental, I’ll have a gps and a tide table, and hopefully things will be clear enough after a couple of days out. Weeel, it’s not _quite_ that simple.  You’ve got the potential for 4 foot changes, and it isn’t just knowing where, it’s knowing when and where, and where the fish are moving.  The "no-boat" flats, of course, are easy (and there are a coupla-several miles of these at GTC), but with a bare boat, it can get tricky insofar as being where you want/need to be when.   We’ll be getting the boat for the middle 7 days out of the 10 we’ll be there, looks like a 20-something foot Wellcraft CC with a 150 and t-top. Nice hefty boat – if it ends up high and dry at low tide it won’t be moved, that’s for sure. But we want to be able to roam freely for the duration, we usually take our own boat wherever we go on summer vacations, and it is usually at the center of the best times we have.

Heck, with that, you don’t need to worry about no steekin’ ferries…plus, that’ll allow quite a variety of fishing – you might wish to take non-FFing tackle, as well. Are there any actual permits/licences one must obtain for fishing – either on foot or in a boat? That’s usually something I forget until the last day – so I’m getting a bit of a jump on things this time…

You get them at Customs, so you don’t have much of choice, unless you wanna fly over early to get one…<G.  Ask for a "sportfishing permit" – it’s around 20-25USD.  I don’t know the status of the boat you’re renting, and with a guide, or on a Bahamian charter, you don’t need one, but if I were in your shoes, I’d just get the thing and be done with it. Bahamian Customs and other LE bodies can be a weird thing for the first-time tourist, so don’t act amused or surprised at any, er, "simple ways."  Make sure you have a couple of hundred USD in tens and twenties for the various fees, "taxes," etc. (in and out for you both, and I don’t mean bribes – it just speeds things up to have smaller bills at the ready).  Up until recently, "Customs" at the MH airport was a card table with a very friendly guy who always told you that you had nothing to declare, in and out, and to enjoy your stay…<G.  The outers particularly, and the Bahamas in general, are pretty laid back when it comes to sensible tourists who obviously plan on spending money.  My father is there quite often, and the only "trouble" in all the years of our family going was that he was pickpocketed once in Nassau, realized it as it happened, tried to grab the guy, who ran.  He then had to catch up to some folks who also gave chase and caught the guy so they didn’t beat him senseless before the cops came.  They made the guy give back the wallet and apologize in between blows. TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -/daytripper (might actually go fishing this weekend! Whoa!

Response:

I’ve done both, and am fairly familiar with out islands of the Bahamas. As to the Green Turtle Club itself, the food is good, the dockage reasonable, an we’ve had a good time when we’ve been.

We must have been there at different times. My trip 5 years ago provided horrible overcooked food at typical high prices for the area. Other dining options are limited except for a 3 mile golf cart ride to New Plymouth. On a good day the smoke from the dump goes out to sea while Brendle, the dive boat captain, will hit on anything with a skirt. My favorite place in the area is Hopetown and Elbow Cay with a little more to do and the variety to keep the trip interesting. Some cottage rentals offer an ocean view and a harbor view. I’ve never bonefished the area, but from what I’ve heard a good guide will be a big plus. A good plan is to rent a Boston Whaler and with Elbow Cay smack in the middle you can easily cover a good portion of the Abaco Sea. Marsh Harbor is just west with great diving down at Sandy Cay and an artist colony all the way south (Little Harbor?). Whatever you choose, enjoy the trip and post pics. Drew

Response:

I’ve done both, and am fairly familiar with out islands of the Bahamas. As to the Green Turtle Club itself, the food is good, the dockage reasonable, an we’ve had a good time when we’ve been. We must have been there at different times. My trip 5 years ago provided horrible overcooked food at typical high prices for the area. Other dining options are limited except for a 3 mile golf cart ride to New Plymouth. On a good day the smoke from the dump goes out to sea while Brendle, the dive boat captain, will hit on anything with a skirt.

Are you sure you aren’t thinking of the other "resort" there, the Bluff House?  Of course, as always, YMMV. My favorite place in the area is Hopetown and Elbow Cay with a little more to do and the variety to keep the trip interesting. Some cottage rentals offer an ocean view and a harbor view. I’ve never bonefished the area, but from what I’ve heard a good guide will be a big plus. A good plan is to rent a Boston Whaler and with Elbow Cay smack in the middle you can easily cover a good portion of the Abaco Sea. Marsh Harbor is just west with great diving down at Sandy Cay and an artist colony all the way south (Little Harbor?).

I would agree that basing at Marsh Harbour is _probably_ a better plan for most who are staying on land. TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Whatever you choose, enjoy the trip and post pics. Drew

Response:

We usually do these trips in April, usually the first week after the "high season".

…and…in your case, that would be when? <g jeff

Response:

We must have been there at different times. My trip 5 years ago provided horrible overcooked food at typical high prices for the area. Other dining options are limited except for a 3 mile golf cart ride to New Plymouth. On a good day the smoke from the dump goes out to sea while Brendle, the dive boat captain, will hit on anything with a skirt. Are you sure you aren’t thinking of the other "resort" there, the Bluff House?  Of course, as always, YMMV.

Nope. I’m speaking of the one right down on the water. Did eat at the Bluff House once, but it was their weekly BBQ. Not bad, but still the options are limited on that end of the cay IMO. Maybe we hit them on a bad week. My favorite place in the area is Hopetown and Elbow Cay with a little more to do and the variety to keep the trip interesting. Some cottage rentals offer an ocean view and a harbor view. I’ve never bonefished the area, but from what I’ve heard a good guide will be a big plus. A good plan is to rent a Boston Whaler and with Elbow Cay smack in the middle you can easily cover a good portion of the Abaco Sea. Marsh Harbor is just west with great diving down at Sandy Cay and an artist colony all the way south (Little Harbor?). I would agree that basing at Marsh Harbour is _probably_ a better plan for most who are staying on land.

But Marsh Harbor doesn’t give you the ocean and diving right off the beach. Hmm. ‘Bout time for another trip…. I’m out of 222s (a good pain reliever). Drew

Response:

A little update on some info.  I spoke to Jeffrey Cardenas (The Saltwater Angler, www.saltwaterangler.com) and they aren’t doing anything in Abacos currently, but this was suggested (with no comment, good or bad): www.abacoflyfish.com TC, R

Response:

I would agree that basing at Marsh Harbour is _probably_ a better plan for most who are staying on land. But Marsh Harbor doesn’t give you the ocean and diving right off the beach. Hmm. ‘Bout time for another trip…. I’m out of 222s (a good pain reliever).

Well, maybe not like the cays, but Marsh Harbour, is, well, a harbor, so there’s plenty of water.  But as you point out, (land)basing from one of the cays limits you in other ways, sometimes not well-taken by those who wish varied activity over a 10-day trip.  From MN, you can easily get to just about anywhere in the Abacos via ferry for a, pardon the pun, day trip, and while Dave fishes, his wife can shop, tour, etc.  - IIRC, she isn’t a fisher?  IOW, from MH, you can just go wherever whatever the first ferry that happens to be handy is going and likely find something, but at the cays, you might have to plan, call/radio, and/or wait, and you can just about do/see all there is to do/see in GTC in about a day and a half if you wish to "go and do." Now, all that said, I would not recommend basing from Treasure Cay (or even bothering to go for more than a half-day) as, IMO, it’s like a mini-Freeport and likely to eventually screw up the immediate surrounding area of Abacos.  Hopefully, it’ll take it in the shorts again, and this time, they’ll tear the whole flockin’ place down and be done with it. As to the codeine pills, I don’t like ‘em or trust ‘em, but ‘tripper oughta love ‘em…<G.  I think you can get a lower-strength Tylenol 3 (Tylenol 2?) in the States with a prescription.  My father swears by them, but all they do for me is make me sleepy. TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Drew

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Well, maybe not like the cays, but Marsh Harbour, is, well, a harbor, so

To me, Hope Town is prettier with almost the same frequency of ferry service. Now, all that said, I would not recommend basing from Treasure Cay (or

Not even worth the time to even go there. As to the codeine pills, I don’t like ‘em or trust ‘em, but ‘tripper oughta love ‘em…<G.  I think you can get a lower-strength Tylenol 3

Codeine works different on different people. For those who may benefit it is legal to bring in 100 tablets per person. Drew

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, maybe not like the cays, but Marsh Harbour, is, well, a harbor, so To me, Hope Town is prettier with almost the same frequency of ferry service. Now, all that said, I would not recommend basing from Treasure Cay (or Not even worth the time to even go there. As to the codeine pills, I don’t like ‘em or trust ‘em, but ‘tripper oughta love ‘em…<G.  I think you can get a lower-strength Tylenol 3 Codeine works different on different people. For those who may benefit it is legal to bring in 100 tablets per person. Drew

I’m surrounded by lightweights!  ;-) From the years of suffering with that damaged disc that was cleaned up this spring I squirreled away enough stuff to whack a herd of rhinos for a week with a multi-colored hail of doses. MMMmmm…doses….! And none of it has that godawful liver-killing should-never-have-passed-muster-with-the-FDA Tylenol. /daytripper (Go big or go home: Oxycodone and Oxycontin rule!  ;-)

Response:

We usually do these trips in April, usually the first week after the "high season". …and…in your case, that would be when? <g jeff

Well…um….that would be…er…well….hmmm…. /daytripper ("Quickly! To the laboratory!")

Response:

The SO has proposed Green Turtle Cay in the Abacos for our annual island trip next April. She’s been seeing lots of positive bonefishing references so she figures it’s a lock for me to go along with her schemes We’d stay at the Green Turtle Club resort/marina, fwiw. http://www.greenturtleclub.com/ And I’m looking for anyone with any direct experience with the eastern Abaco islands, the Green Turtle Club, and more importantly, the fishing! Anyone out there ever been to this place? Anyone out there do any bonefishing in the Abacos Islands? Thanks for any feedback. /daytripper (got dem bonefishin’ jones

Response:

Anyone out there ever been to this place? Anyone out there do any bonefishing in the Abacos Islands? Thanks for any feedback. /daytripper (got dem bonefishin’ jones

    a former law partner of mine has often visited his father’s "cottage" on green turtle cay.  i will try to check with him and report back. yfitons wayno

Response:

Anyone out there ever been to this place? Anyone out there do any bonefishing in the Abacos Islands? Thanks for any feedback. /daytripper (got dem bonefishin’ jones    a former law partner of mine has often visited his father’s "cottage" on green turtle cay.  i will try to check with him and report back. yfitons wayno

Thanks mfitons!

Response:

well now… this sounds like an opportunity for several of us with SOs(note the lack of apostrophe) to get some SO approval… so, when will you and your wife be sponsoring this vacation a/k/a excuse for bonefishing? jeff (who knows somebody who knows somebody thats got an abacos spot) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The SO has proposed Green Turtle Cay in the Abacos for our annual island trip next April. She’s been seeing lots of positive bonefishing references so she figures it’s a lock for me to go along with her schemes We’d stay at the Green Turtle Club resort/marina, fwiw. http://www.greenturtleclub.com/ And I’m looking for anyone with any direct experience with the eastern Abaco islands, the Green Turtle Club, and more importantly, the fishing! Anyone out there ever been to this place? Anyone out there do any bonefishing in the Abacos Islands? Thanks for any feedback. /daytripper (got dem bonefishin’ jones

Response:

The SO has proposed Green Turtle Cay in the Abacos for our annual island trip next April. She’s been seeing lots of positive bonefishing references so she figures it’s a lock for me to go along with her schemes We’d stay at the Green Turtle Club resort/marina, fwiw. http://www.greenturtleclub.com/ And I’m looking for anyone with any direct experience with the eastern Abaco islands, the Green Turtle Club, and more importantly, the fishing! Anyone out there ever been to this place? Anyone out there do any bonefishing in the Abacos Islands? Thanks for any feedback.

I’ve done both, and am fairly familiar with out islands of the Bahamas. As to the Green Turtle Club itself, the food is good, the dockage reasonable, an we’ve had a good time when we’ve been.  I glanced at the site, and I’d say it’s pretty representative – in fact, I think I have some pictures taken in the dining room and patio area, and they look a lot like those on the site.   Really, it depends on what you want.  If you want moderate isolation, Green Turtle is fairly so, but not ridiculously so.  If you want a little more to do, and don’t want a boat, you could stay at Marsh Harbour and ferry to the Cays (Green Turtle has a ferry service from MH to GTC, and there are plenty of ferry services around the Abacos). Also, GTC has several other accommodation options, such as cottages and houses, that I see in a newspaper from earlier in the year. The outers are a little different from the "tourist" island areas like Freeport and Nassau, and, IMO, are like no other area in the world.  You have yachts (and I mean YACHTS) that cruise the area, but it is all pretty casual and laid-back.  If you want more info on the area, drop me an email.   IMO, the best deal going in places like the Abacos, USVI/BVI, etc. is to rent a boat (pref. sail, but a trawler if you must) and cruise the islands.  The general area is easy sailing (although you must pay attention to tide times) with lots of areas to visit, dive, fish, party, or whatever.  Room rates run 200.00-plus USD a day, plus taxes, additional charges, meal plans, etc., and for about the same money, you can get a boat – of course, YMMV.  If you are interested, Moorings has a location in MH, or check any of the boating/sailing mags like Motorboating & Sailing, Yachting, Sailing, etc. TC, R PS – FWIW, the members of certain yacht clubs get discounts at many of the clubs in the Bahamas, or at least reciprocation, and that may be worth looking into, if applicable for you. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -/daytripper (got dem bonefishin’ jones

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The SO has proposed Green Turtle Cay in the Abacos for our annual island trip next April. She’s been seeing lots of positive bonefishing references so she figures it’s a lock for me to go along with her schemes We’d stay at the Green Turtle Club resort/marina, fwiw. http://www.greenturtleclub.com/ And I’m looking for anyone with any direct experience with the eastern Abaco islands, the Green Turtle Club, and more importantly, the fishing! Anyone out there ever been to this place? Anyone out there do any bonefishing in the Abacos Islands? Thanks for any feedback. /daytripper (got dem bonefishin’ jones well now… this sounds like an opportunity for several of us with SOs(note the lack of apostrophe) to get some SO approval… so, when will you and your wife be sponsoring this vacation a/k/a excuse for bonefishing? jeff (who knows somebody who knows somebody thats got an abacos spot)

We usually do these trips in April, usually the first week after the "high season". We’re still shopping around the Abacos but I think Herself has seen enough to make her "half" of the decision… /daytripper (that would be the big half, of course

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The SO has proposed Green Turtle Cay in the Abacos for our annual island trip next April. She’s been seeing lots of positive bonefishing references so she figures it’s a lock for me to go along with her schemes We’d stay at the Green Turtle Club resort/marina, fwiw. http://www.greenturtleclub.com/ And I’m looking for anyone with any direct experience with the eastern Abaco islands, the Green Turtle Club, and more importantly, the fishing! Anyone out there ever been to this place? Anyone out there do any bonefishing in the Abacos Islands? Thanks for any feedback. I’ve done both, and am fairly familiar with out islands of the Bahamas. As to the Green Turtle Club itself, the food is good, the dockage reasonable, an we’ve had a good time when we’ve been.  I glanced at the site, and I’d say it’s pretty representative – in fact, I think I have some pictures taken in the dining room and patio area, and they look a lot like those on the site.   Really, it depends on what you want.  If you want moderate isolation, Green Turtle is fairly so, but not ridiculously so.  If you want a little more to do, and don’t want a boat, you could stay at Marsh Harbour and ferry to the Cays (Green Turtle has a ferry service from MH to GTC, and there are plenty of ferry services around the Abacos). Also, GTC has several other accommodation options, such as cottages and houses, that I see in a newspaper from earlier in the year. The outers are a little different from the "tourist" island areas like Freeport and Nassau, and, IMO, are like no other area in the world.  You have yachts (and I mean YACHTS) that cruise the area, but it is all pretty casual and laid-back.  If you want more info on the area, drop me an email.   IMO, the best deal going in places like the Abacos, USVI/BVI, etc. is to rent a boat (pref. sail, but a trawler if you must) and cruise the islands.  The general area is easy sailing (although you must pay attention to tide times) with lots of areas to visit, dive, fish, party, or whatever.  Room rates run 200.00-plus USD a day, plus taxes, additional charges, meal plans, etc., and for about the same money, you can get a boat – of course, YMMV.  If you are interested, Moorings has a location in MH, or check any of the boating/sailing mags like Motorboating & Sailing, Yachting, Sailing, etc. TC, R PS – FWIW, the members of certain yacht clubs get discounts at many of the clubs in the Bahamas, or at least reciprocation, and that may be worth looking into, if applicable for you. /daytripper (got dem bonefishin’ jones

"I wouldn’t join a yagt…yauht….BOAT club that would have me as a member!" <attributable_to_someone_noteworthy_I_am_soooo_sure Thanks for the start, Richard. My wife and I enjoyed the heck out of Anegada, population under 100 and which I’d call "severely isolated", compared to Green Turtle Cay – which looks to be fairly teeming with humanity and is a short boat ride to a whole lot of touristy stuff by comparison. But if the fishing is good enough I’ll put up with a lot We had considered the Tiamo resort on south Andros, but someone or something put the wife onto this place, hence the grape vine initiative… I’m not sure that the spousal unit is ready for a week and a half on a boat, though the idea has it’s intrigue. She’s done day sails on schooners and didn’t go green, so there’s a possibility she’ll surprise me. I shall bounce it off Herself and note her first reaction (the only one that counts I plan on at least renting a boat, hopefully a center console in the 20 foot range while we’re wherever we’re going to be. I’ve looked at the rates and they seem more than reasonable ("Wait’ll you see the boat, though!" We had also considered a different place closer to the Marls on the western side of Abaco, but my wife read that the guides that work out of the eastern cays can scoot over to the Marls quickly enough. The scale of these islands escapes me,  seems much smaller than I had imagined. Again, thanks for the feedback, if you have more on the GTC thing I’d appreciate it (as email if you prefer). /daytripper

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Question:

My girlfriend and I are heading somewhere in the Caribbean this winter. Besides the usual sightseeing, I want to do some flyfishing for at least one and hopefully two days.  I would like to do battle with any combination of the following:  bonefish, permit, tarpon, jack crevalle etc.   I don’t want an exclusive fishing resort.  I was hoping for a regular tourist destination that I could hook up with a reputable guide, close by,  who could take me out for the day.  I have read some good things about the Yucatan peninsula in Mexico but am open to just about anywhere.  Any suggestions?  (Cuba is an option for us Canucks.) Tony Morrison London, Ontario.

Response:

Cuba via Mexico…..no problem…. john

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My girlfriend and I are heading somewhere in the Caribbean this winter. Besides the usual sightseeing, I want to do some flyfishing for at least one and hopefully two days.  I would like to do battle with any combination of the following:  bonefish, permit, tarpon, jack crevalle etc.   I don’t want an exclusive fishing resort.  I was hoping for a regular tourist destination that I could hook up with a reputable guide, close by,  who could take me out for the day.  I have read some good things about the Yucatan peninsula in Mexico but am open to just about anywhere.  Any suggestions?  (Cuba is an option for us Canucks.) Tony Morrison London, Ontario.

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Question:

A summarized quote from an article in Audubon: "The federal government is proposing that Maine’s Atlantic salmon be protected under the Endangered Species Act. In 1999 less than 100 spawning females returned to the eight rivers targeted in the proposal and those were the Country’s best remaining runs of wild Atlantic salmon. Maine’s governor Angus King and a congressional delegation from Maine take issue with the claim that Maine salmon are a distinct subspecies. They feel that an ESA listing would harm the blueberry and salmon aquaculture industries." Even if the salmon don’t ultimately get ESA protection, maybe just the "threat" of it will improve the situation. In Colorado, New Mexico, Utah and Wyoming, just the consideration of putting some of our native trout species under the ESA, prompted the states’ to step up their efforts in restoring these populations, seemingly to try and curtail the ESA designation. Willi

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A summarized quote from an article in Audubon: "The federal government is proposing that Maine’s Atlantic salmon be protected under the Endangered Species Act. In 1999 less than 100 spawning females returned to the eight rivers targeted in the proposal and those were the Country’s best remaining runs of wild Atlantic salmon. Maine’s governor Angus King and a congressional delegation from Maine take issue with the claim that Maine salmon are a distinct subspecies. They feel that an ESA listing would harm the blueberry and salmon aquaculture industries." Even if the salmon don’t ultimately get ESA protection, maybe just the "threat" of it will improve the situation. In Colorado, New Mexico, Utah and Wyoming, just the consideration of putting some of our native trout species under the ESA, prompted the states’ to step up their efforts in restoring these populations, seemingly to try and curtail the ESA designation.

hope this isn’t considered raining on the esa parade, but i have yet to see any meaningful reforms due to the esa in the northwest.  the powers that be, inclusing those within NMFS, seem to be fighting harder and harder every year to maintain the status quo, except for those sport fisheries… those must be closed first because they have the most impact (add heavy dose of sarcasm to last sentence <G) we’re starting to get some inklings that things may be changing, but hell, chinook on the snake river have been listed for an awful long time to just be finally doing something. if it’s true that only 100 female atlantics were in 8 rivers, i’m amazed that they aren’t covered under the esa.  looks like maine’s salmon are on cruise control towards extinction. chris

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I’ll conceived IMHO Here’s the facts I’m aware of. 1. Atlantic Salmon are not endangered as a species, Maine has no distinct species or subspecies of Salmon it’s just the run of the mill salmo salar 2. The runs have depleted over the past few years, despite the improvement to all the hydro projects to include downstream access – i.e.: no more cut bait from salmon returning to the sea. 3.  With the number of fish heading out due to stocking, and some limited natural reproduction,  it’s obvious to me the problem is NOT in the rivers of Maine but off the coast of Maine, this proposal will not get rid of the Russian and Japanese fishing fleets off our coast. (I do not claim this to be the entire problem, but when Canada quit netting salmon off their coast the runs improved). Overall fishing in the gulf of Maine is bad and getting worse. Giant factory ships under foreign flags sit there year round, I do not believe this has no impact. 4. Atlantic’s were placed on C&R 2 years ago to see if this helped, it takes 5 years for this to begin to show improvement or failure (for fish to return from the sea). 5. TU and Audubon who pushed for the C&R reg change have declared the program a failure, 3 years before any evidence pro or con can be produced 6. If ESA listing is approved on the rivers so designated agriculture and aquaculture will take a second seat. This could have an impact on Maine which has lagged the rest of the country in this age of economic growth. The Governor and the reps are just doing their jobs here. 7. The State of Maine has spent millions of dollars over the past 10+ years attempting to restore the salmon runs, it hasn’t worked. ESA listing doesn’t show much promise because the root cause of the depletion hasn’t been identified. Audubon needs to do some research before they attempt to impose a "solution". 8. The removal of the Edwards dam in Augusta may improve the virtually non-existent run in the Kennebec, despite the small numbers of fish in the Kennebec it’s not on Audubon’s list. The Kennebec once was home to the largest runs recorded in Maine and could be again given time to recover. These runs disappeared within years of Edwards construction. 9. ESA listing will more than likely cause these rivers to be closed to all angling regardless of the species targeted or so I’m told by the US F&W biologist locally. 10. Those numbers are not the same as what’s being touted here locally, I’ll see if I can find the website with the info. Also it’s TU and Audubon who are petitioning the Feds for the listing, it’s not a proposal from the Feds as far as I know (yet) We’d all love to have great runs of Atlantic’s, there is nothing finer than a 10lb salmon leaping out of the water on your fly, been there, done that. This proposal is premature and threatens the livelihood of some hardworking folks here in Maine. Audubon needs to back their claims with research, and they have yet to do that. Flyfish – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A summarized quote from an article in Audubon: "The federal government is proposing that Maine’s Atlantic salmon be protected under the Endangered Species Act. In 1999 less than 100 spawning females returned to the eight rivers targeted in the proposal and those were the Country’s best remaining runs of wild Atlantic salmon. Maine’s governor Angus King and a congressional delegation from Maine take issue with the claim that Maine salmon are a distinct subspecies. They feel that an ESA listing would harm the blueberry and salmon aquaculture industries." Even if the salmon don’t ultimately get ESA protection, maybe just the "threat" of it will improve the situation. In Colorado, New Mexico, Utah and Wyoming, just the consideration of putting some of our native trout species under the ESA, prompted the states’ to step up their efforts in restoring these populations, seemingly to try and curtail the ESA designation. Willi

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I haven’t followed it in the last couple of weeks, but have the impression that ESA enactment is a done deal. Governor King’s complaint is that it’s bit premature: the Feds gave their blessing to a 5 year plan put into place by the State, and 2 years later came back with the Big Hammer. It’s a rather complex situation with no single factor bearing the brunt of the blame, but there’s little argument that the regions that are going to get hit the hardest economically are the same ones that only recently saw their unemployment levels dip below 10% for the first time in 10 or 15 years. Despite opinions to the contrary, the salmon have lots of support, whereas the unemployed have only the government to turn to. Governor King and the State are suing to get access to the data on which the Feds based their decision. Odd that he should have to do that in the face of what is purported to be overwhelming evidence that the ESA needed enacting. The Penobscot had water temps in excess of 70 in the Bangor area last season due to regionwide drought, but it won’t matter this year, the anglers get to take a by, for at least this year and for as long as some steadily employed people from another part of the country deem it. The whole thing still smells a little fishy to me. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A summarized quote from an article in Audubon: "The federal government is proposing that Maine’s Atlantic salmon be protected under the Endangered Species Act. In 1999 less than 100 spawning females returned to the eight rivers targeted in the proposal and those were the Country’s best remaining runs of wild Atlantic salmon. Maine’s governor Angus King and a congressional delegation from Maine take issue with the claim that Maine salmon are a distinct subspecies. They feel that an ESA listing would harm the blueberry and salmon aquaculture industries." Even if the salmon don’t ultimately get ESA protection, maybe just the "threat" of it will improve the situation. In Colorado, New Mexico, Utah and Wyoming, just the consideration of putting some of our native trout species under the ESA, prompted the states’ to step up their efforts in restoring these populations, seemingly to try and curtail the ESA designation. Willi

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6. If ESA listing is approved on the rivers so designated agriculture and aquaculture will take a second seat. This could have an impact on Maine which has lagged the rest of the country in this age of economic growth. The Governor and the reps are just doing their jobs here.

how much of an impact do you think the aquaculture industry is having on maine’s wild salmon?  are there large numbers of escapees?  aquaculture definetely puts me in a tough situation… on one hand the price of fish declines, which is good for wild fish (not economical to harvest them) but the commercial impact on fish remains to make the food the fish in pens eat.  plus the use of antibiotics and the possible spread of diseases from rearing in tight quarters are imo seriously bad things. seems you want no job losses from aquaculture, but don’t mind job losses among the commercial fishing fleet.  seems a strange position since both have negative effects, although one is obvious and the other will be forever argued by those pro-aquaculture folks. we’re facing much the same deal here in the northwest with probable job losses (never mind the loss of a $1 billion sportfishery from the loss of viable fisheries).  do you have any treaty tribes in maine, because as i read it, in the nw they will be the folks who have the final say due to the treaties superseding much of the state’s power. good luck finding a solution, i hope you can find one. chris

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6. If ESA listing is approved on the rivers so designated agriculture and aquaculture will take a second seat. This could have an impact on Maine which has lagged the rest of the country in this age of economic growth. The Governor and the reps are just doing their jobs here.

:how much of an impact do you think the aquaculture industry is having on maine’s wild salmon?  are there large numbers of escapees?  aquaculture definetely puts me in a tough situation… on one hand the price of fish declines, which is good for wild fish (not economical to harvest them) but the commercial impact on fish remains to make the food the fish in pens eat.  plus the use of antibiotics and the possible spread of diseases from rearing in tight quarters are imo seriously bad things.: The Maine and the New Brunswick salmon aquaculture industry are one in the same.  All of the salmon stocks in New Brunswick’s Bay of Fundy (with the exception of the Saint John River’s) are on the verge of extirpation.  The causitive link with aquaculture is suspected, because the stock declines commenced with the explosion of the industry in the early ’80’s.  The pathway(s) are not certain, but disease, genetic pollution and the concentration of predator theories cannot be dismissed.  The spread of the deadly Infectious Salmon Anemia (of European origin and imported in live fish to North America?) from cage escapees to wild salmon in one NB river has been demonstrated.  It has also been demonstrated that wild resident fish species, such as herring and harbour pollock are carriers of the disease. That said, a lot of the Down East salmon rivers of Maine are a long way from the aquaculture industry, and the pathway of its effect on them is hard to visualize.  The recovery of the eastern seaboard striped bass populations cannot be good for salmon, nor can exploding sea bird and seal populations.   At least one expert at Acadia University contends that it is foreign fishing fleets, which indiscriminatly fish for all species that are available, are the real culprits. JB :seems you want no job losses from aquaculture, but don’t mind job losses among the commercial fishing fleet.  seems a strange position since both have negative effects, although one is obvious and the other will be forever argued by those pro-aquaculture folks. we’re facing much the same deal here in the northwest with probable job losses (never mind the loss of a $1 billion sportfishery from the loss of viable fisheries).  do you have any treaty tribes in maine, because as i read it, in the nw they will be the folks who have the final say due to the treaties superseding much of the state’s power. good luck finding a solution, i hope you can find one. chris:

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Question:

(words of great insight snipped) A toast to you, Mike, as I enjoy your literary skills over a scotch on a quiet evening in Pennsylvania.  Only on roff. Mark faulkner

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Here, here! Nice work, Mike. Steve Zimmerman Go Cougars!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [excellent prose snipped]

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What urgeth then a man of sense, to seek the soothing solace of a rippling stream, with complex and expensive tools ? ‘Tis surely not the gain involved, for a bag of comely fish may just as well be gleaned with simple gear, likewise by abject fools. Perhaps the contemplation then ? the peace and quiet, and sometimes awesome, even frightening, and  inspiring solitude ? the sight of glorious nature, richly clad in many shades of riotous and verdant colour, may even ban the deepest blackest mood. The stream a

Question:

Phew. Good story. How about more of this? Who out there among us has ever written a story for publication, only to have it rejected by some pip-squeek assistant editor? Why not publish yourself on the web? right here? This beats the hell out of C&R pissing. — /* Sandy Pittendrigh                  –oO0  * http://www.nervana.montana.edu/~sandy  */

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Why not publish yourself on the web? right here?

What, and give away blood, sweat & tears FOR FREE ? My literary agent would have a coronary. — Ken Fortenberry

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‘There’s nothing like making a definitive stement on the net to provehow wrong you are’

Too true, too true!

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Seemingly oblivious to the arcane machinations and unexplainable antics of a veritable host of erstwhile anglers, walkers, canoers, frustrated lovers, and usually inebriated potential suicides on the bridge above, the large and reputedly ancient trout lay just below the second brick foundation of the first bridge arch.  According to local folklore he weighed in excess of ten pounds, but he was apparently oblivious of his fame as well.   He rose occasionally and slurped a particularly inviting morsel from the calm lane at the side of the fast water caused by the water rushing through the narrows of the arch.

(remarkable story snipped) Allright, then, Mike, would it be true? Which part did you play? Mark Faulkner

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(remarkable story snipped) Allright, then, Mike, would it be true? Which part did you play? Mark Faulkner

Perfectly true, I know, I was that trout ! TL MC

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Damn bait fisherman!  We need more bartenders like that around all trout streams! Warren

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Seemingly oblivious to the arcane machinations and unexplainable antics of a veritable host of erstwhile anglers, walkers, canoers, frustrated lovers, and usually inebriated potential suicides on the bridge above, the large and reputedly ancient trout lay just below the second brick foundation of the first bridge arch.  According to local folklore he weighed in excess of ten pounds, but he was apparently oblivious of his fame as well.   He rose occasionally and slurped a particularly inviting morsel from the calm lane at the side of the fast water caused by the water rushing through the narrows of the arch. If some of the local worthies were to be believed he had been doing this every summer for the last ten years. Experts and tyros, men of letters, small boys with worms,  although the water was fly only, and even lowly poachers,  had all attempted the difficult cast at one time or another over the years, some even successfully, the jaw of the fish was laced with white scars easily visible in the clear water, testimony to the "barbs and arrows of outrageous fortune" to which he had been subjected and which he now bore with seeming nonchalance, perhaps even truculent pride. A hard won but most excellent education.  In the "Stag

Question:

Hi my name is Eric, I may be moving to northern Indiana near south bend come beginning of may do to job oppertunity.  Are there any lakes close by besides michigan that contain nice size walleyes.  any names would be greatly appreciated.  also love to bass and fly fish so they would halp also. thank you ERIC

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Hi my name is Eric, I may be moving to northern Indiana near south bend come beginning of may do to job oppertunity.  Are there any lakes close by besides michigan that contain nice size walleyes.  any names would be greatly appreciated.  also love to bass and fly fish so they would halp also. thank you ERIC

Lake Erie is one of the premier walleye lakes in the world and ha a variety of types of angling from drifting to trolling and thelake has several distinct caharachteristics inbthe western basin it is relatively shallow and lots of structure in the central basin it is about 75 foot eeep and in the eastern basin it has holes between 100 foot plus in a few ateas and one spot over 200 feet deep. This promotes 3 distinct fisheries. In April and May head to the Islands by June july and August head farther east. There will still be fish in the Islands but schools of fish tend to move east and eventually sto between Geneva and Conneaut and then begin heading back to the Islands of the western basin. If you need local information or captains email me and I can steer you in the right direction. I know a couple dozen captains that fish in the islands and many more in the central basin. Typically the captains in the islands are tight lipped but the guys in the central basin are pretty open as long as you leave them room to fish. If you need information get it before you leave the dock  or only from peole you trust because there is a lot of misinformation given on the radio. Captain Bryce Seymour http://www.ncweb.com:80/biz/hooker/ New moster websight under construction will be up this spring

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Eric,    I have lived in south bend my whole life and have done alot of fishing there.  Even though I don’t know of any lakes in the area good for walleye I have caught themout of the St. Joe river in S. Bend.  Most of the fishing I have done has been from shore but I do know of spots on the river you can catch them if you have a boat.  If you would like to here tell you more if you would like. Helpin’ you find ‘um, jason – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi my name is Eric, I may be moving to northern Indiana near south bend come beginning of may do to job oppertunity.  Are there any lakes close by besides michigan that contain nice size walleyes.  any names would be greatly appreciated.  also love to bass and fly fish so they would halp also. thank you ERIC Lake Erie is one of the premier walleye lakes in the world and ha a variety of types of angling from drifting to trolling and thelake has several distinct caharachteristics inbthe western basin it is relatively shallow and lots of structure in the central basin it is about 75 foot eeep and in the eastern basin it has holes between 100 foot plus in a few ateas and one spot over 200 feet deep. This promotes 3 distinct fisheries. In April and May head to the Islands by June july and August head farther east. There will still be fish in the Islands but schools of fish tend to move east and eventually sto between Geneva and Conneaut and then begin heading back to the Islands of the western basin. If you need local information or captains email me and I can steer you in the right direction. I know a couple dozen captains that fish in the islands and many more in the central basin. Typically the captains in the islands are tight lipped but the guys in the central basin are pretty open as long as you leave them room to fish. If you need information get it before you leave the dock  or only from peole you trust because there is a lot of misinformation given on the radio. Captain Bryce Seymour http://www.ncweb.com:80/biz/hooker/ New moster websight under construction will be up this spring

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Question:

Harrison, You may be right.  I believe I observed Jim and Kelly Watt on the tele one Sat. morning years ago.  For the life of me I can’t remember what ol’ Jimbo looks like BUT I have a vivid picture of Kelly, lips and all.   "Epoxylips", I need to remember that one.  Thank you for correcting me. Stephen Hiner

Stephen:         Just to set you straight, Jimbo is the one who laughs all the time – every nightclub comedians dream. His vocabulary also seems to consist of a single phrase, "oooooooh, NICE FISH". The other member of the dynamic duo squeals a lot and also has a limited vocabulary, i.e., "ooooooooh, THANK YOU FISH". Sometimes they get confused and say things like "THANK YOU, oooooooooh, NICE FISH", or even "NICE, ooooooh, YOU FISH THANK which isn’t in the script. Then they are difficult to tell apart. I think the double XX member of duo wears pink neoprenes, but I haven’t watched the show in years, so maybe I am mistaken.                                 Harrison

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A sure sign – the apocalypse is near!!!! Stephen Hiner

I’m not sure you meant "apocalypse". Didn’t you mean "epoxylips?"                                                 HRS

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Harrison, You may be right.  I believe I observed Jim and Kelly Watt on the tele one Sat. morning years ago.  For the life of me I can’t remember what ol’ Jimbo looks like BUT I have a vivid picture of Kelly, lips and all.  "Epoxylips", I need to remember that one.  Thank you for correcting me. Stephen Hiner

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Folks, most of you are probably aware of the Forum over at the Virtual Flyshop, (chat room, message boards, etc), but our ‘Experts’ board has been down for some time. We’re pleased to announce tha it is back up again, and we have some excellent fly fishermen willing to field your questions, including Gary LaFontaine, Jim Teeny, Jim & Kelly Watt, Dan Wright, Ian Martin and others. Please feel free to make use of this service! The URL for the VFS Forum is http://www.flyshop.com/Forum Thanks, — Mike Tucker-  The Virtual Flyshop Web: http://www.flyshop.com Phone: 970/225-6445

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A sure sign – the apocalypse is near!!!! Stephen Hiner

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Question:

Fished with Capt. Ron Rebeck of Backcountry Charters in Florida. Ron holds the 1994 world record Ladyfish title on fly. We caught literally a hundred or more Ladyfish, Reds, and Large Jacks. We weighed several of "my" Ladyfish for possible titles. Many fish "just" short. What a thrill. All on fly. They have a toll free no. 1-800-932-REEL(9335). This guy is the best guide I have ever fished with. Hope you try him out…enjoy!

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Fished with Capt. Ron Rebeck of Backcountry Charters in Florida. Ron holds the 1994 world record Ladyfish title on fly. We caught literally a hundred or more Ladyfish, Reds, and Large Jacks. We weighed several of "my" Ladyfish for possible titles. Many fish "just" short. What a thrill. All on fly. They have a toll free no. 1-800-932-REEL(9335). This guy is the best guide I have ever fished with. Hope you try him out…enjoy!

Where were you fishing out of and how big is this world record ladyfish.  I lived and fished in SW Florida for quite a few years and always enjoyed catching ladyfish.  They fight as spectacularly as most anything. tight lines

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