Question:

 The Prestige. But its only a good deal with the 3 Forks package. You  can find cheaper Okumas elsewhere.   And, it’s a good "bang for the buck" reel.  But, the Prestige   included with the 3 wt. Three Forks is a bit large for this rod, IMO.  I think it’s for 5/6 wt. line.  One of the smaller Okuma’s would be a better fit on the 3 wt. Snoop

True enough Snoop…both my 3 and 5 wt Three Forks sport an Okuma Sierra 3/4 and a nice rig it is. Frank(a very tired road hog) Church …..who just completed a 3300 mile trip to El Paso, Tx. and only had 300 miles of sunshine. The rest rain/drizzle/fog/snow/hail and who watched a tornado funnel form and disappear 3 times right before my very eyes. (wait a minute, was this a TR?)

Response:

 The Prestige. But its only a good deal with the 3 Forks package. You can find cheaper Okumas elsewhere.   And, it’s a good "bang for the buck" reel.  But, the Prestige included with the 3 wt. Three Forks is a bit large for this rod, IMO.  I think it’s for 5/6 wt. line.  One of the smaller Okuma’s would be a better fit on the 3 wt.

The one I bought for my St. Croix three weight is labeled "4/5", but it’s the smallest reel I own by far.  Pretty ideal for the three weight in my estimation.  As a matter of fact, even with a 3 WF there is little room for backing.  I’m not sure I could get a double tapered line on it even without any backing. Wolfgang

Response:

I use a Galvan 3wt reel on my P.O.S. Three Forks. It’s a lovely reel — a light anodized metallic color, just the right size, with a sensitive drag and a decent amount of backing — as though I’ll ever need it. At first I felt like an idiot because the reel (an impulse purchase) costs maybe four or five times what rod costs, even when the rod was bought as a "combo." I use a 3 wt WF Sage Performance line with that rod. The LINE costs more than the rod, even when bought as a "combo." It matches the rod "perfectly" to my satisfaction. BTW, I recently got my repaired workhorse 5wt Sage SP back from the factory, after breaking it horribly and sickeningly at the HF Clave. I took it out to the Big Wood River a few days ago, getting about two hours of fishing in during a day of frantic errand running in Ketchum and Hailey. It was a good outing, catching a few nice rainbows on dries during the tail end of a baetis hatch. The rod, however, felt like a surf rod compared to the Three Forks I’ve been using in its absence.

Response:

Proceed with caution.  Your four weight and 3 weight might breed, producing a 3.5 weight.  If this happens, there would be no hope of ever avoiding a gear-whore label.

It’s not so much the lable itself that I mind, but at these prices I find (at this late and rather sensitive stage of life) that I am a CHEAP whore. Scott (recovering this morning from a second lab flood  )

Core coolant leaking again? Wolfgang ever grateful for predominant westerly winds.

Response:

@wiscnews.wiscnet.net: Scott (recovering this morning from a second lab flood  ) Core coolant leaking again?

No, just an idiot one floor up who should need a license to operate a sink Did you know that Universities have employees that do nothing but serve as liasions to their own insurance companies? — Scott Reverse first field of address to reply

Response:

Thanks for the report, Bill.  I really had intended to fish with my Three Forks combo in NC last week but found it impossible to tear myself away from the rod Joel built for me on a St. Croix Legend Ultra blank back in the spring.

I can fully understand that! Since I bought the Three Forks back in July (for my daughter, I swear!), I haven’t used my 5 weight rig much.  Opportunities will be limited for me for the next few months, but maybe I’ll get lucky and manage at least a bluegilling trip before the ice sets in.

And here I was hoping for Thanksgiving at the cabin up on the Ontonogan! Shall I pack my skis? Bill

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wolfgang, you missed one fine $10 reel.  I looked at the Okuma version at a fly shop today, and it’s the exact same reel.  The salesman was trying to convince me that 30% off a $435 Ross reel was a bargain, but being the bottom feeder that I am… Which of Cabelas reels is the Okuma? I just looked at their site again……thinking of getting a four weight to keep the three company.    :) I believe the reel in question is the "Prestige". http://shorterlink.com/?VW9JA3 Wolfgang

Proceed with caution.  Your four weight and 3 weight might breed, producing a 3.5 weight.  If this happens, there would be no hope of ever avoiding a gear-whore label. — Scott (recovering this morning from a second lab flood  ) Reverse first field of address to reply

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks for the report, Bill.  I really had intended to fish with my Three Forks combo in NC last week but found it impossible to tear myself away from the rod Joel built for me on a St. Croix Legend Ultra blank back in the spring. I can fully understand that! Since I bought the Three Forks back in July (for my daughter, I swear!), I haven’t used my 5 weight rig much.  Opportunities will be limited for me for the next few months, but maybe I’ll get lucky and manage at least a bluegilling trip before the ice sets in. And here I was hoping for Thanksgiving at the cabin up on the Ontonogan! Shall I pack my skis?

The place is full of deer hunters then…..nasty, smelly bunch, decidedly short on refinement…….hm……now I think about it, sounds a lot like a clave.  What time can you be there? Wolfgang if you bring liquid refreshments, stay close…..and stay awake!

Response:

 The Prestige. But its only a good deal with the 3 Forks package. You can find cheaper Okumas elsewhere.

  And, it’s a good "bang for the buck" reel.  But, the Prestige included with the 3 wt. Three Forks is a bit large for this rod, IMO.  I think it’s for 5/6 wt. line.  One of the smaller Okuma’s would be a better fit on the 3 wt. Snoop — —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

Wolfgang, you missed one fine $10 reel.  I looked at the Okuma version at a fly shop today, and it’s the exact same reel.  The salesman was trying to convince me that 30% off a $435 Ross reel was a bargain, but being the bottom feeder that I am… Which of Cabelas reels is the Okuma?

 The Prestige. But its only a good deal with the 3 Forks package. You can find cheaper Okumas elsewhere. G.C.

Response:

Wolfgang, you missed one fine $10 reel.  I looked at the Okuma version at a fly shop today, and it’s the exact same reel.  The salesman was trying to convince me that 30% off a $435 Ross reel was a bargain, but being the bottom feeder that I am… Which of Cabelas reels is the Okuma?

I just looked at their site again……thinking of getting a four weight to keep the three company.    :) I believe the reel in question is the "Prestige". http://shorterlink.com/?VW9JA3 Wolfgang

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I had the 3-3-3 (Three Forks, three piece, three weight) with me in Colorado this past weekend, and really enjoyed fishing with it.  I’ll try to stave off hyperbole this time, though. Wolfgang, you missed one fine $10 reel.  I looked at the Okuma version at a fly shop today, and it’s the exact same reel.  The salesman was trying to convince me that 30% off a $435 Ross reel was a bargain, but being the bottom feeder that I am… One interesting data point: I fished with my friend Dennis on Monday.  He had a Cortland package set up and was doing miserably with it.  He just couldn’t seem to get a cast out right.  Handed him the 3-3-3 and he did much better.  Of course, Willi’d given him some pointers in the meantime, so maybe my data is skewed.  Just seems like a nice rod to cast, beginner or otherwise.

Thanks for the report, Bill.  I really had intended to fish with my Three Forks combo in NC last week but found it impossible to tear myself away from the rod Joel built for me on a St. Croix Legend Ultra blank back in the spring.  Opportunities will be limited for me for the next few months, but maybe I’ll get lucky and manage at least a bluegilling trip before the ice sets in. Wolfgang

Response:

Wolfgang, you missed one fine $10 reel.  I looked at the Okuma version at a fly shop today, and it’s the exact same reel.  The salesman was trying to convince me that 30% off a $435 Ross reel was a bargain, but being the bottom feeder that I am…

Which of Cabelas reels is the Okuma?

Response:

So, did you have fun?

Yes. Was it purty?

Yes. Did they make you eat "grits"?

Weren’t enough of ‘em.  I made ‘em eat olives! Geo.C. Who got skunked on the Brule Friday, but who was more in need of the water, trees and silence than fish anyway.

And you could have picked a worse spot.  On the other hand, there’s some mighty nice spots in NC too!      :) Wolfgang meantime, don’t believe the lyin’ bastids!    

Response:

So Wolfie did ya like the rod ??? Nice gear whore report makes me wanta send for one right now.                    Handyman Mike           Standing in a river waving a stick

Response:

So Wolfie did ya like the rod ??? Nice gear whore report makes me wanta send for one right now.

fished with it yet, did I?      :) Wolfgang and thus, the perfect rod!

Response:

So Wolfie did ya like the rod ??? Nice gear whore report makes me wanta send for one right now. fished with it yet, did I?      :)

For what it’s worth, Mike, I did actually test cast the rod on my lawn and found that it works as well as any other.  Bearing in mind that the reel seat will probably have to be replaced, as has so often been noted, I still think that the package is a steal for 60 bucks.  I only wish that I had investigated Cabelas site a little more carefully and gotten the Okuma reel for an additional ten dollars rather than the cheap graphite one. Wolfgang

Response:

Wolfie, Bass Pro Shops Have some nice little reels real cheap that look really good on the 3, they balance the rod well and are disk drag. I use the graphite reel to run the line off the other reel (4 hose clamps on a piece of broom stick.) — John Popp in Sanford Fl.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So Wolfie did ya like the rod ??? Nice gear whore report makes me wanta send for one right now. fished with it yet, did I?      :) For what it’s worth, Mike, I did actually test cast the rod on my lawn and found that it works as well as any other.  Bearing in mind that the reel seat will probably have to be replaced, as has so often been noted, I still think that the package is a steal for 60 bucks.  I only wish that I had investigated Cabelas site a little more carefully and gotten the Okuma reel for an additional ten dollars rather than the cheap graphite one. Wolfgang

Response:

I use the graphite reel to run the line off the other reel (4 hose clamps on a piece of broom stick.)

I gave mine to a local boy who loves to flyfish but doesn’t have much tackle — not even something as cheesy as the Cabela’s graphite reel.

Response:

Wolfie, Bass Pro Shops Have some nice little reels real cheap that look really good on the 3, they balance the rod well and are disk drag. I use the graphite reel to run the line off the other reel (4 hose clamps on a piece of broom stick.) — John Popp in Sanford Fl.

Thanks, John. Wolfgang

Response:

I had the 3-3-3 (Three Forks, three piece, three weight) with me in Colorado this past weekend, and really enjoyed fishing with it.  I’ll try to stave off hyperbole this time, though. Wolfgang, you missed one fine $10 reel.  I looked at the Okuma version at a fly shop today, and it’s the exact same reel.  The salesman was trying to convince me that 30% off a $435 Ross reel was a bargain, but being the bottom feeder that I am… One interesting data point: I fished with my friend Dennis on Monday.  He had a Cortland package set up and was doing miserably with it.  He just couldn’t seem to get a cast out right.  Handed him the 3-3-3 and he did much better.  Of course, Willi’d given him some pointers in the meantime, so maybe my data is skewed.  Just seems like a nice rod to cast, beginner or otherwise. Bill – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So Wolfie did ya like the rod ??? Nice gear whore report makes me wanta send for one right now. fished with it yet, did I?      :) For what it’s worth, Mike, I did actually test cast the rod on my lawn and found that it works as well as any other.  Bearing in mind that the reel seat will probably have to be replaced, as has so often been noted, I still think that the package is a steal for 60 bucks.  I only wish that I had investigated Cabelas site a little more carefully and gotten the Okuma reel for an additional ten dollars rather than the cheap graphite one. Wolfgang

Response:

God bless Cabela’s for the less afluent among us. Joel Axelrad **DFD**

Response:

* combo TR and Gear Review snipped* Wolfgang

So, did you have fun? Was it purty? Did they make you eat "grits"? Geo.C. Who got skunked on the Brule Friday, but who was more in need of the water, trees and silence than fish anyway.

Response:

God bless Cabela’s for the less afluent among us. Joel Axelrad **DFD**

And God bless the builders of superior rods who make a backup something of a cheap luxury rather than an absolute necessity!       Wolfgang ya should’a been there!

Response:

As some of you will recall, I recently purchased a Cabelas Three Forks Combo which included a seven and a half foot 3 piece 3 weight rod, a cheap graphite click drag reel, a weight forward 3 wt. floating line of unknown manufacture, backing of unknown manufacture, material, and weight (it’s white), rod sock, a knotless tapered leader, and a getting started in fly fishing video, for the price of about 60 bucks (US) including shipping. The purchase was prompted by a perceived need to have a backup in the event of a catastrophic failure of my primary three weight rig during the recently concluded first ever ROFFian Appalachian backpacking anti-subclave, and the selection was based on several years worth of recommendations from a wide range of ROFFians (most of whom I have never met but have nevertheless inexplicably learned to trust……don’t ask me, maybe it’s the aneurysm) who have, for the most part, spoken glowingly of it.  I have not yet viewed the video and will thus refrain from further comment on it. After a week in the Smoky Mountains of extreme western North Carolina, fishing in very demanding circumstances (those familiar with the region are all too well aware of the rigorous demands made on both fly fisher and gear) I am prepared to say that despite some initial misgivings engendered by the rather shoddy appearance of the rod’s components (the entire reel seat assembly fails to inspire confidence), I am pleased to say without qualification that the entire outfit performed every task I demanded of it flawlessly. ….even perfectly.  True, I did not catch a single fish with it, but anyone who has been about this sort of thing for very long can attest that such failure can hardly be laid at the feet of the equipment……I can honestly say that coming home empty handed, as it were, had absolutely nothing to do with any deficiency in the design, components, or manufacture of the this rod, reel, or any other of the components of the system.  But then, having done some test casting on the lawn prior to packing for the trip, I already knew that this would be the case.  As is almost always the case, barring a mechanical failure (which, in this case at least, did not occur), the responsibility for the success (or lack of thereof) of the endeavor must rest squarely in the hands of the user. Fortunately, the perceived potential disaster which demanded the purchase of this system never happened, but as such an occurrence remains an all too real possibility I remain convinced of the wisdom of foresight and preparation for the worst eventuality and I will continue to carry this particular backup system secure in the expectation that it will continue to perform exactly as it did on this occasion. Wolfgang

Response:

Question:

Steve, I have a set of Hodgman neoprene waders and wading boots and they work fine for me.  The only problem I have with them is that I sweat like a pig in them.  I cannot wear any clothes under them that I plan on wearing later as they get soaked.  I just returned from the Pit, McCloud and Burney creek and did not feel cold in the waders at all. Just my $.02, Dustin – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Greetings from Northern California.  In shopping for my first pair of waders (I’m new to fly fishing) I came across the Hodgman closeout site.  The have Wadelite non-breathable waders, suspenders, and Caster Boots for the low price of $49.99.  Is this a deal or am I just pissing away Fifty Bucks?

Response:

Personally, I doubt if I could get more than 3 seasons out of a pair of waders no mater who made them. Having used all varieties, I am sold on breathables for all weather conditions until it is warm enough to wade wet. In winter (you know, snow and ice) I stay warmer in breathables…. Does anyone get more than 3 seasons?….. john

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Greetings from Northern California.  In shopping for my first pair of waders (I’m new to fly fishing) I came across the Hodgman closeout site.  The have Wadelite non-breathable waders, suspenders, and Caster Boots for the low price of $49.99.  Is this a deal or am I just pissing away Fifty Bucks?

Response:

"asadi" < Personally, I doubt if I could get more than 3 seasons out of a pair of waders no mater who made them. Having used all varieties, I am sold on breathables for all weather conditions until it is warm enough to wade wet. In winter (you know, snow and ice) I stay warmer in breathables…. Does anyone get more than 3 seasons?….. john

I got a whole season out of a pair of breathables last year and they have three holes patched. They may get me through this coming one as well. I would presume I do a lot more hours on the water than most, wouldn’t know how to work out what that equates too, but it would be at least three seasons I’m guessing. Clark

Response:

I’m 2/3 thru year 4 on my Simms Guide boots and waders. Never applied a patch to the waders and the boots look pretty spiffy considering. My trick is that I hose down my gear every time I fish and then hang it up to dry. This may sound a little obsessive, but I do the same with my fly lines and rods/reels and they’re as nice as the day I bot them. Also, it pays to be careful when putting on your waders and boots not to track sand and gravel on your feet. These are hell on wader feet. IMHO. -bh Boulder, CO

Response:

Greetings from Northern California.  In shopping for my first pair of waders (I’m new to fly fishing) I came across the Hodgman closeout site.  The have Wadelite non-breathable waders, suspenders, and Caster Boots for the low price of $49.99.  Is this a deal or am I just pissing away Fifty Bucks?

I am hardly new to flyfishing but use similiar waders myself. Also have cheaper model Hodgman boots. After using rubber/canvas and then neoprene waders this style seemed quite nice and light. I think its a good deal. Breathable waders are probably more comfortable but from all the complaints I’ve seen here concerning the cheaper ones it seems that you are looking at at least 200 bucks to get a good pair. A little steep for my taste, but of course I AM cheap (admitting you have a problem etc. etc. etc.). Geo.C.

Response:

I have a pair of hodgeman breathables, I can’t recall what model off the top of my head but I paid about 150 for them three years ago. I do allot of walking through brush to get to water and keep them in my car trunk all summer long on 90+ degree days witch can’t really be good for them, but they have yet to spring a leak and are very comfortable. I also bought there cheaper canvas felt sole wading boots. It ran me 200 total but for the abuse I put them through I think it was a good investment. I had some cheap rubber waders that were beyond uncomfortable and sprung a leak after a few trips crawling through the bushes on the edge of a stream(gota be stealthy some times, people give me silly looks when they see me crawling around in waders with a fly rod). So in the long run I think it’s worth spending on one good set then buying 4 or 5 bad ones through the years. Well that’s my 2 cents, well more like 5 Tim Apple

Response:

Greetings from Northern California.  In shopping for my first pair of waders (I’m new to fly fishing) I came across the Hodgman closeout site.  The have Wadelite non-breathable waders, suspenders, and Caster Boots for the low price of $49.99.  Is this a deal or am I just pissing away Fifty Bucks?

I found the nylon non-breathable Wadelites. Personally, I think these would be rather warm and uncomfortable. But then I’m "big-boned" <g and perspire a lot anyway. — TL, Tim

Response:

I purchased a pair of the bantam weight hippers and a pair of the bantam weight chest waders from their outlet store and used the hip waders this summer.     I now know why breatheables are so popular but other than perspiring quite a bit, the waders worked great.   held up pretty good during a week-long trip, no leaks, etc.    I don’t know about the boots, had a pair of 11 yo hodgman boots that worked ok. so, I thought for $50, i got a pretty good deal on the waders, i don’t get to fish much, but now have all waters covered… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Greetings from Northern California.  In shopping for my first pair of waders (I’m new to fly fishing) I came across the Hodgman closeout site.  The have Wadelite non-breathable waders, suspenders, and Caster Boots for the low price of $49.99.  Is this a deal or am I just pissing away Fifty Bucks?

Response:

Greetings from Northern California.  In shopping for my first pair of waders (I’m new to fly fishing) I came across the Hodgman closeout site.  The have Wadelite non-breathable waders, suspenders, and Caster Boots for the low price of $49.99.  Is this a deal or am I just pissing away Fifty Bucks?

It depends on how much you fish, and what type of fishing you do. If you’re going to be doing some small mountain creeks or upper lakes, then these are probably NG. I have a pair of Cabelas non-breathable cheap waders which are fine (with or without underlying insulation…depending on season) for late fall/winter/early spring (late spring for the ocean) fishing around here.  Once the weather warms up, I don’t use full waders, I either use hip boots, or wet-wade, with a couple of exceptions. When I’ve gone up to some of the bigger water (Ausable, West Branch of the Delaware) I could really have used the breathables. So, the answer is "it depends". — Rob

Response:

Greetings from Northern California.  In shopping for my first pair of waders (I’m new to fly fishing) I came across the Hodgman closeout site.  The have Wadelite non-breathable waders, suspenders, and Caster Boots for the low price of $49.99.  Is this a deal or am I just pissing away Fifty Bucks?

Response:

Greetings from Northern California.  In shopping for my first pair of waders (I’m new to fly fishing) I came across the Hodgman closeout site.  The have Wadelite non-breathable waders, suspenders, and Caster Boots for the low price of $49.99.  Is this a deal or am I just pissing away Fifty Bucks?

The Wadelite models are all breathable, according to their website. I’ve got a pair of the felt-sole Caster boots, and they’re decent for a starter set, although the felt is two-piece with the shank uncovered. This can sometimes cause stumbling problems if you’re not careful because the heel catches on rocks. — TL, Tim

Response:

Greetings from Northern California.  In shopping for my first pair of waders (I’m new to fly fishing) I came across the Hodgman closeout site.  The have Wadelite non-breathable waders, suspenders, and Caster Boots for the low price of $49.99.  Is this a deal or am I just pissing away Fifty Bucks?

Don’t know anything about the boots, but I bought the same waders for a quite a bit more money four years ago and they haven’t let me down yet. Sounds like a good deal to me. Wolfgang

Response:

Question:

On a typical day of fishing – say on the recent San Juan Clave, what are the things in your vest/chest pack that you would not be without (besides flies)?  My vest (el cheapo Wally World special) has about 20 different pockets and an assortment of D-rings.  What sort of goodies do *you* fill these pockets with?

At the Maine Clave in September, the Lakewood Camps staff prepared sack lunches for people who didn’t want to interrupt their fishing at mealtime. I recently found the remains of a stick of cheese from one of those lunches in the bottom of one of the front pockets of my vest. I left it there for good luck. –Steve

Response:

Pretty much was Ken has said, except for the camera.  My most important tool is a knot tying tool, although if I lost it I could use my hemostats to tie the clinch knots. I also carry a stick of "Mean streak", a magic marker for coloring the last 12 – 16 inches of tippet white.   Dave LaCourse Pirate and Bottom Dweller

Response:

"Peter Charles" wrote Different fish  species usually means different stuff but the constants are: snip Peter

Nice list Peter, I also carry: Albolene Tippet material Extra leaders antiseptic Ernie

Response:

two condoms, a wine opener, a yashica t4super, two rolls of film (one b&w, one 400asa fuji print), and a waterproof copy of the kama sutra.

Two, huh? Who’s the other guy? –Steve

Response:

I also carry a stick of "Mean streak", a magic marker for coloring the last 12 – 16 inches of tippet white.

Interesting. I’ve never heard of doing something like that. I’m assuming that’s to make the tippet more invisible when fishing dry flies, no? Is that for mono tippet or only for flouro? I thought the darker colors were more invisible so this is news to me. –Steve

Response:

frog fanny What’s a frog’s ass doin in your vest? Seriously though, what is it?

Frog’s Fanny is a self-described "Double Duty Fly Treatment". I first learned of it this summer from Mary Dorsey’s guide friend who gave me a couple of his "Ray Charles Specials", (even a blind guy could catch a fish on this fly , that had been brushed with this stuff. I was REALLY impressed with it and said so here on ROFF. Turns out Charlie Wilson had discovered this stuff a long time ago and was so impressed he bought a whole case, just in case they ever went out of business, so he sent me a bottle. It’s essentially a very fine powder that you apply with a brush to work it into the dubbing. Highly recommended. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

I also carry a stick of "Mean streak", a magic marker for coloring the last 12 – 16 inches of tippet white. "Zimbo" wrote … Interesting. I’ve never heard of doing something like that. I’m assuming that’s to make the tippet more invisible when fishing dry flies, no? Is that for mono tippet or only for flouro? I thought the darker colors were more invisible so this is news to me. –Steve

Zimbo, In some parts of the country there is a drifting caddis that spins a white line which helps it to drift.  A white tippet resembles this line. Ernie

Response:

On a typical day of fishing – say on the recent San Juan Clave, what are the things in your vest/chest pack that you would not be without (besides flies)?  My vest (el cheapo Wally World special) has about 20 different pockets and an assortment of D-rings.  What sort of goodies do *you* fill these pockets with?

I’m a bit of a minimalist, but here goes… – flies (usually in two small boxes) – extra tippet – license – floatant – hemostat – sunglasses – trash bag (for carrying out garbage left by other fishermen) Don’t have a vest, usually use a generic fanny-pack.      - Ken

Response:

Zimbo writes: I also carry a stick of "Mean streak", a magic marker for coloring the last 12 – 16 inches of tippet white. Interesting. I’ve never heard of doing something like that. I’m assuming that’s to make the tippet more invisible when fishing dry flies, no? Is that for mono tippet or only for flouro? I thought the darker colors were more invisible so this is news to me. –Steve

No.  It is used to color the tippet (kind doesn’t matter) to mock the thread of net making caddis worms.  It is a neat trick used on the Rapid and other rivers in Maine.  It works with the green rock worm.  Sometimes the worms (larva) are washed away from their rock, but hold on, not unlike a spider dangling from his web.  Read Gary LaFontaine’sCaddisflies. Dave L.

Response:

On a typical day of fishing – say on the recent San Juan Clave, what are the things in your vest/chest pack that you would not be without (besides flies)?  My vest (el cheapo Wally World special) has about 20 different pockets and an assortment of D-rings.  What sort of goodies do *you* fill these pockets with?

in my wader pocket- -spool or 2 of maxima -license -hook file tucked inside front of wader (or if raining in rain jacket pockets)- -one flybox -one shooting head wallet for holding sink-tips vests suck,<G chris

Response:

Nice list Peter, I also carry: Albolene Tippet material Extra leaders antiseptic Ernie

I’ll be you carry yourself very well, Ernie. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

: Frog’s Fanny is a self-described "Double Duty Fly Treatment". : It’s essentially a very fine powder that you apply with a : brush to work it into the dubbing. Highly recommended. So is it bait or what?  ;-) You never actually say what double duties it performs… JonCook. — Are you a r.o.f.f. newbie? Then see http://www.cs.nmsu.edu/~jcook/ROFF/

Response:

On a typical day of fishing – say on the recent San Juan Clave, what are the things in your vest/chest pack that you would not be without (besides flies)?  My vest (el cheapo Wally World special) has about 20 different pockets and an assortment of D-rings.  What sort of goodies do *you* fill these pockets with?

There’s no rule that says you need to fill them. What I carry depends on where I’m fishing. For local waters or waters where I think I know what to expect, I have a somewhat minimal fishing shirt I use that has only two pockets. I carry floatant, nippers, and two spools of tippet. I carry two small flies boxes.  Inside of one of the boxes there is some Biostrike strike ind. and a few small weights in addition to flies. I ALWAYS carry a pair of reading glasses. On waters I’m not familiar with, I carry a fully loaded vest but the main difference is more flies. I do try and avoid this because I find a fully loaded vest a pain. Willi

Response:

: Frog’s Fanny is a self-described "Double Duty Fly Treatment". … You never actually say what double duties it performs…

Blurb straight off the bottle; … Frog’s Fanny is not only the best dry fly floatant that you will ever use, now you can really "Match the Hatch" by coating your nymphs with Frog’s Fanny. It will put an air bubble around them that looks exactly like an emerging insect. It floats a dry fly better than anything I’ve ever used if brushed into the dubbing thoroughly, can’t vouch for the "air bubble around the nymph" claim. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

good inventory snipped<

This shows me that I don’t fish often enough.   To give the detailed inventory Ken offers, I’d have to get out my vest and check. I never carry my sunglasses in my vest, they stay on a neck cord.   I don’t usually carry a compass, but I have taken a small GPS on occasion.   Never needed a tape measure (yet).   Don’t carry a Leatherman tool, but have a nifty little pair of curved needlenose pliers. All in all, I carry much the same stuff as Ken, except in my upper right outside pocket are some strike indicators. Nice idea for a thread, thanks TR.<

ditto. Joe F.

Response:

I’ll add ; a small pen lite flashlight, a cheap pair of reading glasses chap stick pocket knife – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – … My vest (el cheapo Wally World special) has about 20 different pockets and an assortment of D-rings.  What sort of goodies do *you* fill these pockets with? Inside pockets (5): first aid kit leatherman tool map & compass car keys Outside vest: patch of amadou nipper on a retractable cord hemostat foam fly patch (can’t get barbless hooks to stay on a wool patch) hook hone Upper right pockets (2): leader wallet with spare leaders & licenses floatant frog fanny Orvis dessicant Upper left pockets (2): camera spools of tippet (usually 4X, 5X, 6X for trout) Lower right pockets (2): sunglasses whisky flask fly box Lower left pockets (3): stream thermometer (used to be outside next to hook hone but I lost too many) fly box red Mucilin patch of Cortland line cleaner container of assorted weights (rarely used tape measure Back of vest (two compartments): lunch water bottle rain jacket and a brand new landing net from Float ‘n Fish. Nice idea for a thread, thanks TR.

         Harry Mason     www.Troutflies.com               *** "Quality Flies for a Trout’s Eyes"

Response:

Different fish  species usually means different stuff but the constants are: nippers hemostat hook sharpener magnet-needle-nailknot thingie key to the back of my truck flashlight thermometer bandaids compass matches splitshot strike indicator putty spare sunglasses also usually carry a small camera and a flask of the good stuff Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

frog fanny

What’s a frog’s ass doin in your vest? Seriously though, what is it?

Response:

At first you just put in a few things that you need and before you know it you don’t have any room left. Ernie "TimeRanger" wrote – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – On a typical day of fishing – say on the recent San Juan Clave, what are the things in your vest/chest pack that you would not be without (besides flies)?  My vest (el cheapo Wally World special) has about 20 different pockets and an assortment of D-rings.  What sort of goodies do *you* fill these pockets with?

Response:

On a typical day of fishing -, what are the things in your vest/chest pack that you would not be without (besides flies)?

        two condoms, a wine opener, a yashica t4super, two rolls of film (one b&w, one 400asa fuji print), and a waterproof copy of the kama sutra. wayno

Response:

… My vest (el cheapo Wally World special) has about 20 different pockets and an assortment of D-rings.  What sort of goodies do *you* fill these pockets with?

I use an LL Bean chest pack and usually carry the following: Outside: Albolene Nippers Hemostat Flashlight Insect repellent Leader straightener Mesh Pockets: Tippet Material, sizes depending on stream and time of year, Inside: Goose neck light Compass Reading glasses Sunglasses Extra leaders More tippet material Dessicant 1-1/2" square magnet(instead of fleece patch) Weights Small needle nose pliers Car key Wallet containing licenses Thermometer Hook hone Line dressing Backstrap: Maps (if needed) Spare reel spool w/line Bandana Toilet Paper Wader patch Spare glasses Lunch, light jacket, or rain gear (if needed) In very hot weather, I use a mesh backstrap which carries nothing, so all of the above would be eliminated. Again, good idea for a thread. George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

Response:

On a typical day of fishing – say on the recent San Juan Clave, what are the things in your vest/chest pack that you would not be without (besides flies)?  My vest (el cheapo Wally World special) has about 20 different pockets and an assortment of D-rings.  What sort of goodies do *you* fill these pockets with?

In my vest (just going by memory here) Inside Pockets Left Side Leader Wallet (3 packs of 10′ 5x & 7.5" 6x leader. One fast sinking leader) Extra Spool of 5x, 6x tippet Pewter Flask (filled with either Captain Morgan, Talisker or Tequila) Miniature Flashlight Inside Pockets Right Side Eyeglasses Fishing License Bottom Left Outside Pockets Two foam fly boxes – one nymph/emergers, one dry fly Bottom Right Outside Pockets Midge Fly box David’s  Sunflower Seeds (Salsa or Ranch) Middle Outside Pocket Leatherman Tool Spyderco Pocket Knife Top Outside Pocket Split shot Strike Indicators (Yarn and Foam) Outside D-ring left side – Fly floatant – Albolene Outside Right side – Old metal shower curtain ring – holds two spools of tippet Zinger with Snips for tippet Back zippered section – If weather looks bad – store my rain jacket in there.  If it is good weather, will store extra beers. Depending on time of year, In the bottom of it, carry my fingerless wool gloves Back outside D-ring – Net Wear a fanny pack for lower back support, wade belt Outside Pocket Safewater Bottle (In a pinch will also hold 3 beers and a small sandwich) Inside chest waders pocket – On the San Juan, carried my digital camera in a Ziploc freezer sandwich bag bc. — I don’t care who you are, you are not walking on the water while I’m fishing.

Response:

On a typical day of fishing – say on the recent San Juan Clave, what are the things in your vest/chest pack that you would not be without (besides flies)?  My vest (el cheapo Wally World special) has about 20 different pockets and an assortment of D-rings.  What sort of goodies do *you* fill these pockets with? — All fishermen are liars ‘cept you n me, and I’m starting to have doubts about you! www.fishticker.com

Response:

… My vest (el cheapo Wally World special) has about 20 different pockets and an assortment of D-rings.  What sort of goodies do *you* fill these pockets with?

Inside pockets (5): first aid kit leatherman tool map & compass car keys Outside vest: patch of amadou nipper on a retractable cord hemostat foam fly patch (can’t get barbless hooks to stay on a wool patch) hook hone Upper right pockets (2): leader wallet with spare leaders & licenses floatant frog fanny Orvis dessicant Upper left pockets (2): camera spools of tippet (usually 4X, 5X, 6X for trout) Lower right pockets (2): sunglasses whisky flask fly box Lower left pockets (3): stream thermometer (used to be outside next to hook hone but I lost too many) fly box red Mucilin patch of Cortland line cleaner container of assorted weights (rarely used tape measure Back of vest (two compartments): lunch water bottle rain jacket and a brand new landing net from Float ‘n Fish. Nice idea for a thread, thanks TR. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Question:

As soon as the head is dry, I’ll scan in my first attempt at a neutral buoyancy perch fly and post it to ABPF. The recipe is: Hook:  Rangley 1/0 8X Thread: Uni-thread 3/0 olive Body:  Float foam cut to body shape and loosely tied on. Covered in braided silver mylar tube then covered with pearlescent translucent braided mylar tube. Throat:  Red Floss Belly:  White calf tail. Underwing:  Chartruese Krystal flash Wing:  Chartruese bucktail Overwing: Olive polar bear (substitute olive bucktail) Bars: black permanent marker. Eyes:  Gold and black stick-on We’ll see if it works on Saturday. Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

I’m an old pike and bass fisherman so it’ll be tough for me to get out of the habit of a firm set when I get that hard smash and big swirl from a big brown.

I trained myself to do this, against instinct, when fishing for bass with minnows on the bottom.  I would use a slip sinker and let the fish run with the minnow until it was "home" or wherever it took it and started to swallow it. The harder the strike, the faster I’d try to drop that rod tip.  A test of nerves, actually, for a young guy to watch that line go out and resist striking.  I’m not suggesting you let a trout run with a streamer, of course. Regards, Jeff

Response:

I use a pattern for smallmouth bass that imitates a stunned, drifting minnow very well – Harry Murray’s Strymph in white. Streamer hook weight the body with lead wire white ostrich herl tail – 8-12 pieces dubbed rabbit fur body (loop dubbed for long shaggy look) long grizzly collar I use a little weight, more toward the head, to give the fly that injured minnow look. I bet it would work well at night – pushes a lot of water.

Response:

I use a pattern for smallmouth bass that imitates a stunned, drifting minnow very well – Harry Murray’s Strymph in white. Streamer hook weight the body with lead wire white ostrich herl tail – 8-12 pieces dubbed rabbit fur body (loop dubbed for long shaggy look) long grizzly collar I use a little weight, more toward the head, to give the fly that injured minnow look. I bet it would work well at night – pushes a lot of water.

My son has had good success with browns at a local pond using white conehead woolly buggers – same general idea. Peter

Response:

Sorry about the interruption. The last trip to the Grand produced a ton of strikes and few fish.  I was using a leftover green ghost from Maine and stripping it fast across current.  About two out of three casts produced a strike with one being hard enough to bend the hook shank yet I only hooked about a half-dozen.  The general consensus around the coffee pot at the flyshop was – the fly was moving so fast and shallow, the browns were whacking it to stun it so they could then swallow it at their lesiure. Since they discovered the fraud on the first hit, they never came back for seconds. This Saturday, I plan on working a weighted perch bucktail pattern much deeper and slower to see if the hookup rate improves.  Anybody else ever encounter this? Peter We now return you to your regularly scheduled political debate.

Response:

Hi Peter, this is fairly common on stillwaters, and occasionally in rivers, most especially with brown trout.  They attack a baitfish to stun or maim it, and then return to leisurely mop it up.  The trick here is, as soon as you get a strike, slacken up, and even pay out line if necessary, so that your streamer tumbles and sinks as if wounded or stunned. Surprisingly this often results in a solid take, when the attacking fish returns to mop it up. Fish are sometimes hooked quite deeply doing this, as they take very confidently indeed, knowing that the "stunned" fish can not escape. The only difficulty involved sometimes, is actually detecting the take itself, although as I said, most such fish take so confidently and deeply, that you can not miss them, often you will see the slack line shooting away as the fish swims off with its prize, which it has taken "on the drop"..  I usually wait about fifteen seconds or so after "slackening up", fish the cast out dead drift, and then either strike when the line moves, or simply tighten up again, invariably the fish is on.  In fast water five seconds should be enough.  Once a fish hits a baitfish, it does not expect it to keep on swimming or "fleeing" as normal, and you are unlikely to get a second hit on the same streamer from the same fish using a "normal" fast retrieve. I think it unlikely that fish detect the fraud so easily on the take, especially with streamers, as many bait fish have hard fins etc, and this does not prevent the fish attacking them. If the fish is pricked on the first hit,( especially enough to bend a hook ),  it might not come back, but this has not been my experience.  Most of my really large fish have been caught in this manner, usually at night. This behaviour is most predominant when bait fish ( like minnows etc ) are shoaling, but may actually occur at any time. One stream I fish has a good population of bullheads, and a muddler minnow fished deep in this manner invariably accounts for a couple of good fish at any time. Nearly all the fish are taken "on the drop", after the first strike, although occasionally one is hooked directly, although often with a bad hookhold, which leads me to believe that the fish are not trying to take it the first time around, but stun, or kill it, with the specific intention of mopping up the result. Fishing deep and slow usually results in less hits in such circumstances, but more solid "direct" hook ups, the fish then being hooked when it strikes the first time.. TL MC — "If you have tried everything you know, and nothing works, then perhaps it is time to accept that you don

Question:

Two more: 1.  This is not the USenet.  Through the magic of modern technology, people from all over the world can and do post.  Remember this, and try to respect it.  Likely as not, your understanding of French, German, Dutch, whatever is likely not as good as their understanding of English, and in many cases, YOUR English is not as good as their English. 2.  Spell-flame at your own risk.  Yes, we all do it sometimes.  Many drink too much and neither is liable to result in a good feeling. I have found that when I use a "mean" spellflame, I usually spell "cat" with a "k", "moron" with an "e" and spell "spell" with either 1 or 3 "L"s. Picky grammar flames usually come out, "Didt you learn nothing in skool?", but YMMV.  This is not to say a good-natured ribbing re: a humorous tendency to er, lapse is bad, just be careful.  Personally, I don’t like spellcheckers, but again, YMMV. TC, R

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This "guide" is strictly my opinion, and I’m sure comments will be made. As far as I’m concerned, newbies and their appropriate comments are just as welcome as anyone else’s… You are more than welcome on ROFF insofar in that being a "newbie" doesn’t make you unwelcome.  What makes you unwelcome is stepping on your dick as you "walk" in.  I hope this, with additions, serves as a newbie’s guide to ROFF, but it is not a FAQ. <_excellent newbie advise, (and good advise for all posters), snipped Great post; I’m keeping it for future reference.  Here’s a very old newbie usenet lyric.  It’s been around since at least the late 80’s.  Every couple of years I have occasion to post it again.  Enjoy! The Newbie’s Song (Based on the Major General’s song from "The Pirates of Penzance", Gilbert & Sullivan).

Tee Heeeeeeee….yup, purdy damn funny…… TC, R Cheers, and tight lines,

CLINK, thank ya, and back at ya… -Mark

This bring to mind something I forgot.  An addition to my original post: I don’t care WHAT the LookOut Distress manual says, HTML and MIME are not welcome on much of USENET…

Response:

This "guide" is strictly my opinion, and I’m sure comments will be made. As far as I’m concerned, newbies and their appropriate comments are just as welcome as anyone else’s… You are more than welcome on ROFF insofar in that being a "newbie" doesn’t make you unwelcome.  What makes you unwelcome is stepping on your dick as you "walk" in.  I hope this, with additions, serves as a newbie’s guide to ROFF, but it is not a FAQ.

<_excellent newbie advise, (and good advise for all posters), snipped Great post; I’m keeping it for future reference.  Here’s a very old newbie usenet lyric.  It’s been around since at least the late 80’s.  Every couple of years I have occasion to post it again.  Enjoy! The Newbie’s Song (Based on the Major General’s song from "The Pirates of Penzance", Gilbert & Sullivan). I am the very model of a Usenet individual, I’ve information meaningless and ultimately trivial, I know the basic elements of alien biology, And all the hidden secrets of the Church of Scientology, I’ve seen "The Wrath of Khan" and every Star Trek film that followed it, I moan about my Servicecard and how the cash till swallowed it, About the laws on handguns I am sending off a counterblast, With many cheerful facts about the way you can MAKE MONEY FAST! ALL:       With many cheerful facts, etc. I’ll tell you why the Japanese are taking over Panama, And why the USA is still a better place than Canada, In short, in matters meaningless and ultimately trivial, I am the very model of a Usenet individual. ALL:    In short, in matters meaningless and ultimately trivial,           He is the very model of a Usenet individual. I post in alt.revisionism lies about the Holocaust, I cut my .sig to twenty lines, I didn’t want to, I was forced, I really can’t believe the "Good Times" virus to be mythical, And Clinton’s raising taxes which is, frankly, bloody typical, I’ve upset several people on alt.flame, I really don’t know how, And sent a thousand business cards to Mr. and Mrs. Shergold now, I have a very poor grip of political geography, And absolutely no involvement (yet!) in child poronography, ALL:      And absolutely no involement, etc. I’ve paid two-fifty dollars for the Nieman-Marcus recipe, And told the Spanish tourist’s tale about the toothbrush pessary, In short, in matters meaningless and ultimately trivial, I am the very model of a Usenet individual. ALL:    In short, in matters meaningless and ultimately trivial,           He is the very model of a Usenet individual. In fact, when I know what is meant by "binary" and "FTP", When I know how to decode porno JPEGs from a .uue, When I can handle HTML, Telnet, mail and IRC, And when I know the words initialised to form "http", When I have learnt what topics are acceptable in talk.bizarre, When I know more of Usenet than the tailpipe of a motor-car,                - In short, when I’ve a smattering of elementary netiquette, You’ll say a better individual has never surfed the Net. ALL:      You’ll say a better individual, etc. For my technical experience, although I claim to know it all Could barely serve to run the installation disk from AOL; But still, in matters meaningless and ultimately trivial, I am the very model of a Usenet individual. ALL:    But still, in matters meaningless and ultimately trivial,           He is the very model of a Usenet individual. Cheers, and tight lines, -Mark

Response:

To bad this post can’t be the first message anyone gets when they – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This "guide" is strictly my opinion, and I’m sure comments will be made. As far as I’m concerned, newbies and their appropriate comments are just as welcome as anyone else’s… You are more than welcome on ROFF insofar in that being a "newbie" doesn’t make you unwelcome.  What makes you unwelcome is stepping on your dick as you "walk" in.  I hope this, with additions, serves as a newbie’s guide to ROFF, but it is not a FAQ. 1.  Show some level of brain activity: BAD post:  "I live near water.  What do I need?" Good Post: "I live near the xxxxxx River in xxxxxx, xx.  It contains xxxxxxx.  I’d like to spend around xxx.xx.  Any suggestions?"  If you intend on staying awhile, give a short bio, perhaps.  You don’t have to tell the world intimate details, but the basics are nice. 2.  Show a high level of good manners: BP:  "You morons need to just discuss fishing, dammit" (Likely answer: "Piss off, you rude newbie") GP:  "I noticed there seems to be a high level of non-fishing threads. Is this normal?" (Likely answer:  "<G  Yep.  If friends might discuss it while going to fish, fishing, after fishing, or going home from fishing, it will likely get discussed on ROFF.  And it will almost certainly stay that way.") 3.  NEVER be afraid to ask a question, considering the above and below. BP:  "I saw a great pattern for my water in a shop 500 miles away, but I was too cheap to spend 1.00 on it.  It was called a blue or maybe a green something or another.  Can any of you so-called experts tell how to tie it, and NOW, dammit." GP:  "I screwed up.  I saw a pattern that I think would be good on my water, and didn’t buy it.  I fish for xxxxx at xxxxxx, and this fly had, best as I remember, xxxxx body, xxxxx tail, etc.  Does this click with anyone?  Any help appreciated." 4.  This isn’t "the Internet," it is USENET, and, as far as you’re concerned, nobody "runs" it.  Trying to run it by issuing "directives" to ROFFians shows how little you know about it.  Further, while suggestions are generally welcome or at least tolerated, orders, edicts, and commands are generally met with, er, scorn, especially from "WebTV’ers" and unknown "aol’ers." BP:  "You people need to just discuss fly-fishing.  Joe Blow called me a name and I’m reporting him.  What you people need is a moderator, and I am the one you need.  Do it my way, or else." GP:  "I can’t take it, I’m leaving." 5.  If you want to dish it out, be ready to take it, and be careful here.  ROFF is full of smart people with a wide body of knowledge, and you will regret expecting to "win." BP:  "fuk ewe, you stoopid as i knew moore abut fishin whenn i was borned the n youll everr no.  quit tesing me because im a geenis and no it all.  as shakespeer said, i dont wrassel all day on st crispys battlefield, so look out when you mess with me."   GP:  "Your momma wears combat boots…" 6.  Use care with "profanity."  While there are no (well, none identified) swooning maidens with virgin ears who will be shocked, directed profanity will likely not get a good response.  A _suggested_ rule of thumb, if the word "you" is involved, don’t do it… BP:  "Fuck you," "You asshole," "You prick," etc. GP:  "I disagree," "WHAT?!," "You gotta be kidding," A note: I realize this seems to border on "rules", but it just seems to be right.  I can’t explain it, and welcome any comments, but I still offer it as my opinion.  Also, never use the word "retarded" in describing someone or their ideas.  I can promise that will get you enemies you REALLY don’t want.  In fact, I suggest you learn to "set back" any timing adjustments you need to make. 7.  No question, with enough info to answer, and politely asked, is inapproriate. 8.  There are no rules. 9.  Try to use common sense.  We all slip up, but if you have NONE, and can’t rent, borrow, or steal some, ROFF might not be your place. 10.  Yes, it HAS been discussed before, but so what?  There is are sites, Deja News, www.deja.com, amongst others, that archives posts. Sometimes, it may be helpful to turn there first.  This might get you get needed info "right now." 11.  PETA sucks, but if you practice C and R, that will be respected, as long as you respect those who C and E.  IMO, C and K, if all you do is kill, is wrong (unless control is needed for a sound reason), but C and E is just the food chain in action. 12.  The "13th Floor" of ROFF. 13.  IMO, blatant, non-participating SPAMMERS are fair game for what they get, but use care in blasting them, and not offending others. 14.  Dive on in, welcome aboard. HTH? R

Response:

This "guide" is strictly my opinion, and I’m sure comments will be made. As far as I’m concerned, newbies and their appropriate comments are just as welcome as anyone else’s… You are more than welcome on ROFF insofar in that being a "newbie" doesn’t make you unwelcome.  What makes you unwelcome is stepping on your dick as you "walk" in.  I hope this, with additions, serves as a newbie’s guide to ROFF, but it is not a FAQ. 1.  Show some level of brain activity: BAD post:  "I live near water.  What do I need?" Good Post: "I live near the xxxxxx River in xxxxxx, xx.  It contains xxxxxxx.  I’d like to spend around xxx.xx.  Any suggestions?"  If you intend on staying awhile, give a short bio, perhaps.  You don’t have to tell the world intimate details, but the basics are nice. 2.  Show a high level of good manners: BP:  "You morons need to just discuss fishing, dammit" (Likely answer: "Piss off, you rude newbie") GP:  "I noticed there seems to be a high level of non-fishing threads. Is this normal?" (Likely answer:  "<G  Yep.  If friends might discuss it while going to fish, fishing, after fishing, or going home from fishing, it will likely get discussed on ROFF.  And it will almost certainly stay that way.") 3.  NEVER be afraid to ask a question, considering the above and below. BP:  "I saw a great pattern for my water in a shop 500 miles away, but I was too cheap to spend 1.00 on it.  It was called a blue or maybe a green something or another.  Can any of you so-called experts tell how to tie it, and NOW, dammit." GP:  "I screwed up.  I saw a pattern that I think would be good on my water, and didn’t buy it.  I fish for xxxxx at xxxxxx, and this fly had, best as I remember, xxxxx body, xxxxx tail, etc.  Does this click with anyone?  Any help appreciated." 4.  This isn’t "the Internet," it is USENET, and, as far as you’re concerned, nobody "runs" it.  Trying to run it by issuing "directives" to ROFFians shows how little you know about it.  Further, while suggestions are generally welcome or at least tolerated, orders, edicts, and commands are generally met with, er, scorn, especially from "WebTV’ers" and unknown "aol’ers." BP:  "You people need to just discuss fly-fishing.  Joe Blow called me a name and I’m reporting him.  What you people need is a moderator, and I am the one you need.  Do it my way, or else." GP:  "I can’t take it, I’m leaving." 5.  If you want to dish it out, be ready to take it, and be careful here.  ROFF is full of smart people with a wide body of knowledge, and you will regret expecting to "win." BP:  "fuk ewe, you stoopid as i knew moore abut fishin whenn i was borned the n youll everr no.  quit tesing me because im a geenis and no it all.  as shakespeer said, i dont wrassel all day on st crispys battlefield, so look out when you mess with me."   GP:  "Your momma wears combat boots…" 6.  Use care with "profanity."  While there are no (well, none identified) swooning maidens with virgin ears who will be shocked, directed profanity will likely not get a good response.  A _suggested_ rule of thumb, if the word "you" is involved, don’t do it… BP:  "Fuck you," "You asshole," "You prick," etc. GP:  "I disagree," "WHAT?!," "You gotta be kidding," A note: I realize this seems to border on "rules", but it just seems to be right.  I can’t explain it, and welcome any comments, but I still offer it as my opinion.  Also, never use the word "retarded" in describing someone or their ideas.  I can promise that will get you enemies you REALLY don’t want.  In fact, I suggest you learn to "set back" any timing adjustments you need to make. 7.  No question, with enough info to answer, and politely asked, is inapproriate. 8.  There are no rules. 9.  Try to use common sense.  We all slip up, but if you have NONE, and can’t rent, borrow, or steal some, ROFF might not be your place. 10.  Yes, it HAS been discussed before, but so what?  There is are sites, Deja News, www.deja.com, amongst others, that archives posts. Sometimes, it may be helpful to turn there first.  This might get you get needed info "right now." 11.  PETA sucks, but if you practice C and R, that will be respected, as long as you respect those who C and E.  IMO, C and K, if all you do is kill, is wrong (unless control is needed for a sound reason), but C and E is just the food chain in action. 12.  The "13th Floor" of ROFF. 13.  IMO, blatant, non-participating SPAMMERS are fair game for what they get, but use care in blasting them, and not offending others. 14.  Dive on in, welcome aboard. HTH? R

Response:

Question:

Heading for RMNP area for 1 1/2-2 weeks this summer, probably mid to late July. Will be camping for part of the time maybe in or north of the park and then spending 4 days in Estes Park. Looking for advice on places to fish and places to avoid. Mostly interested in smaller streams or shallow lakes. Will be wading-no float tube-with a 7′9" 3/4 wt. Once the family is safely in the confines of a cabin or lodge I may take a solo overnight hike to a more remote lake/stream. Any advice on places and patterns will be greatly appreciated. Thanks Mark

Response:

Fished there last summer around July.  I had a great time on the Thompson and on the headwaters of the Colorado.   Usually we could fish till around 4pm before the thunder and lightning rainstorms drove us for cover.  The further you wandered away from the road, the better the fishing got. Although most fish ran 7-10", there were a few larger and some we saw, but could not get to rise in the gin-clear water, that probably went 21/2 to 3lbs.  A 3/4 short rod is a good choice.  On the west side of the park, the Colorado runs into an area that is filthy with beaver dams.  A stealthy approach to the dams brought non-stop action on brookies and cutthroats. The Estes Park Angler in Estes Park is a good source for fly fishing information.  The fish were not that picky.  However, a lime trude sizes 14-16, worked best.  We also picked up fish on elkhair caddis, yellow humpies, hoppers, and stimulators. Randall S. Davis

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Heading for RMNP area for 1 1/2-2 weeks this summer, probably mid to late July. Will be camping for part of the time maybe in or north of the park and then spending 4 days in Estes Park. Looking for advice on places to fish and places to avoid. Mostly interested in smaller streams or shallow lakes. Will be wading-no float tube-with a 7′9" 3/4 wt. Once the family is safely in the confines of a cabin or lodge I may take a solo overnight hike to a more remote lake/stream. Any advice on places and patterns will be greatly appreciated. Thanks Mark

Response:

Question:

Hang around Trude, you could learn some things from the

rude and ignorant denizens of ROFF. I doubt that you will, your head is tucked so far up your a** your hemorrhoids hug your bow tie.< C’mon, Ken.  You’re going to make Trudie feel unwelcome.  Strangers don’t understand that your bark is somewhat worse than your bite.  <g

Response:

Go troll elsewhere. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It was suggested to me, that I browse this newsgroup, and invite you to my server,  where I  provide a real-time chat room and a ‘free’ FTP service. I read the postings, and decided you are definitely NOT worth the effort on my part. This is ‘Fly Fishing’ :  an intelligent, refined sport. Why are "some" of you so IGNORANT, and RUDE to the thoughts and ideas of others ?      And your lack of research on any given subject is abominable. Before commenting, know the facts.  You just make yourself look foolish.

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Hi everybody, I’m an asshole!  (Blah Blah Blah)

Let the flames begin! First of all shit bird, what kind of clout do you think you have that you can waltz in here and expect to get everybody to just run to your site. Yes, some people here argue strongly about what concerns them. But I don’t think that everybody here takes it to personally because we all know that it’s nearly impossible to get your point across with short post’s. It does get frustrating. But someone like you who thinks that there gods gift to newsgroups has nothing to offer anyway. There’s an old saying. Here goes-"people who think that they know it all really annoy those of us who really do." Buddy, why don’t you do us all a favor and blow! BassBug: Is it a sport or a religion?

Response:

I think someone should find out where this guy’s chat room is. Then, all of ROFF could show up at once for a real time demonstration of rudeness. Would be kind of fun, but then again, probably a waste of time on this guy. Tim Lysyk

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It was suggested to me, that I browse this newsgroup, and invite you to my server,  where I  provide a real-time chat room and a ‘free’ FTP service. I read the postings, and decided you are definitely NOT worth the effort on my part. This is ‘Fly Fishing’ :  an intelligent, refined sport. Why are "some" of you so IGNORANT, and RUDE to the thoughts and ideas of others ?      And your lack of research on any given subject is abominable. Before commenting, know the facts.  You just make yourself look foolish.

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Before commenting, know the facts.

There Trude. Now we know the facts and it’s our conclusion  that you’re an asshole. Good ridings. BassBug: Is it a sport or a religion?

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[tirade snipped] Is that you, TBone? Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

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oblivious to the fact that he was Talking To The Hand, and wasted everyone’s time by spewing forth with the following rant: It was suggested to me, that I browse this newsgroup, and invite you to my server,  where I  provide a real-time chat room and a ‘free’ FTP service.

LOL! Consider for a moment that you were being set up by someone else that doesn’t like your act. I read the postings, and decided you are definitely NOT worth the effort on my part.

Wanna bet the feeling is mutual, Mr. Troll? This is ‘Fly Fishing’ :  an intelligent, refined sport.

If flyfishing is truly an intelligent, refined sport, it’s pretty clear that you’d never make the first cut. Why are "some" of you so IGNORANT, and RUDE to the thoughts and ideas of others ?

"Thoughts and ideas" like your POS post? Simple: we get off slamming d!ckbabies that troll through this group (<== that’s the RUDE part) especially when we have no clue why said d!ckbabies are here (<== that’s the IGNORANT part). And your lack of research on any given subject is abominable.

Wow! You used a FIVE SYLLABLE WORD! Go ask your mommy for that quarter the nice man gave her last night – she’ll be very proud! Before commenting, know the facts.  You just make yourself look foolish.

LOL! You’re a piece o’ work, Mr. Troll. If anyone is going to look foolish tonight, it’s you. Sure hope you’re wearing your flame-proof underwear – you’re gonna need it… But thanks for the entertainment – and don’t let the door hit you in your ample ass on your way out… Oh yeah: recognize this sound? (PLONK!) That’s you – hitting the bottom of my kill file… [fwiw: To all of my ignorant and rude brethren in the group ;^) This twit has made precisely ONE Usenet post - ever - per the archives at Dejanews. He's either a troll or a total moron - and my guess is the latter] /daytripper

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—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– While in non-compliance with local decency ordinances the world over, I read the postings, and decided you are definitely NOT worth the effort on my part.

And so you decide to tell us. Sounds vaguely like the five year old kid down the block from me who likes to yell "I HAVE A SECRET AND I’M NOT TELLING YOU!!!" at the top of his lungs, at least once a day. This is ‘Fly Fishing’ :  an intelligent, refined sport.

Ayep. Pass me one of them there ten-cent seegars and help y’all’s self to a Pabst. Why are "some" of you so IGNORANT, and RUDE to the thoughts and ideas of others ?      And your lack of research on any given subject is abominable.

This is how we communicate. I’m sorry that you find it offensive that we don’t drink our scotch with pinkies in the air and address each other as "my good sir." I’m so sorry that I’m going to sit up until sunrise crying my eyes out at the fact that someone without a name thinks that I am rude and ignorant and unintelligent and unrefined. *sniff* *sniff* Does somebody have a bandanna? I mean, one that they AIN’T used on their nose since they last washed it? Trude wounded my delicate sensibilities. —–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—– Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAwUBN2NdM5diUzdLFqlpAQEmTwf/QutX1TYmKNWJKzb1LQdqMQn8kY1xdVFh jEwd0vG6UNRIMmfHalOK5g3U9jlgRvoK1S4HwDOYqtXjLW3Fs4VD5ltw0Af1Dnh/ YyJ3cTPZXxX7iIxGTkEmpSM2c/FB+2YXannptxd613PkcMVPqA07yVkZM6TH3DJu LgBOG4b1VkVukTKTBqsq7dtts0+ruagVgs9+A1bByghoUKCEKcoDa0hHe43pgdet cVueV44tNGn1V8pQnLSH/5krolLy3ohMLpqpu8z0ynUiDcKTQSLADafkvrxolmL0 EfDRsDUoePp3hynjhBC3Rl7276kYfXJaaG34REsfF+fk2rqbUg8Akg== =r1Cq —–END PGP SIGNATURE—– Mike S. Medintz, B.S. | http://www.grapevine.net/~medintz "Living with a dog is easy-like living with an idealist  is easy." -H.L. Mencken

Response:

Day Tripper: (snip) <<[fwiw: To all of my ignorant and rude brethren in the group ;^) This twit has made precisely ONE Usenet post - ever - per the archives at Dejanews. He's either a troll or a total moron - and my guess is the latter] Interesting.  Beware of sheep in wolves clothing applies as well Dave LaCourse

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Troll, troll, troll your post crassly through our ROFF. Since you ain’t worth a tinker’s damn Kindly fuck right off. Did this live up to your expectations?   I’m so glad. Peter

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Just another xample of what ole’ Trude was talkin’  ’bout. ITS STUDE NOT STUD! Or are ya lookin’ to rent a hoss???

Mike down here in Texas where family trees rarely branch (we’re too stoopid to know not to cruze fer chicks at family reunions)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Geeeeze, I keep forgetting things to say to old Trude: Thanks, Shallow One, for starting this thread.  I have a feeling it is gonna (I didn’t research the spelling of that) be quite entertaining.  <g Old Ignore-ant Dave, with a transmissheyon in my bathtub and an old rusty Studebaker truck in my front yard Dave..whacha want for the stud? oh yeah, almost forgot, trudy, watch that front door, it has a nasty tendency to hit asses on the way out. waldo — Ezflyfish.com                 Blue Ridge Book Gallery Quality Gear & Service        Used & Out-of-Print Books http://www.ezflyfish.com      http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 (828)963-5001

Response:

ITS STUDE NOT STUD! Or are ya lookin’ to rent a hoss??? Mike down here in Texas where family trees rarely branch (we’re too stoopid to know not to cruze fer chicks at family reunions)  (Blah Blah Blah)

Then would that be DUDE-not-STUDE? BassBug: Is it a sport or a religion?

Response:

It was suggested to me, that I browse this newsgroup, and invite you to my server,  where I  provide a real-time chat room and a ‘free’ FTP service. I read the postings, and decided you are definitely NOT worth the effort on my part. This is ‘Fly Fishing’ :  an intelligent, refined sport. Why are "some" of you so IGNORANT, and RUDE to the thoughts and ideas of others ?      And your lack of research on any given subject is abominable. Before commenting, know the facts.  You just make yourself look foolish.

Response:

I read the postings, and decided you are definitely NOT worth the effort on my part.

So, why this post, Mr. Trude? This is ‘Fly Fishing’ :  an intelligent, refined sport.

Yep, it sure-ass is, ain’t it.  Nothin I done like better than kickin ass on stream.  Are you a Redman guy too?  Great to chew when you’re fishing, but I hate it when it dribbles down my chin .Why are "some" of you so IGNORANT, and RUDE to the thoughts and ideas of others ?    

Well, hell, I don’t know.  Maybe they deserve it. Mark Faulkner, missin the invitation to Trude’s server, whatever the hell that means.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It was suggested to me, that I browse this newsgroup, and invite you to my server,  where I  provide a real-time chat room and a ‘free’ FTP service. I read the postings, and decided you are definitely NOT worth the effort on my part. This is ‘Fly Fishing’ :  an intelligent, refined sport. Why are "some" of you so IGNORANT, and RUDE to the thoughts and ideas of others ?      And your lack of research on any given subject is abominable. Before commenting, know the facts.  You just make yourself look foolish.

Well Trude, just speaking for myself, you don’t rate much effort on my part. See ya and slack lines, Walt — Ezflyfish.com                 Blue Ridge Book Gallery Quality Gear & Service        Used & Out-of-Print Books http://www.ezflyfish.com http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 (828)963-5001

Response:

Trude writes:

<<It was suggested to me, that I browse this newsgroup, and invite you to my server,  where I  provide a real-time chat room and a ‘free’ FTP service. I read the postings, and decided you are definitely NOT worth the effort on my part. This is ‘Fly Fishing’ :  an intelligent, refined sport. Why are "some" of you so IGNORANT, and RUDE to the thoughts and ideas of others ?      And your lack of research on any given subject is abominable. Before commenting, know the facts.  You just make yourself look foolish. Trude, we have survived quite nicely here at roff for many years, fighting, arguing, crying, passing on information about our sport, and yessssss – making fools of ourselves. And, we have done it without your server, chat room, and "free" FTP service.  You come here one time, read a few posts and say we are not worthy of you.  How very shallow of you.  Quite frankly, I doubt *anyone* on this ng would want to associate with you – ’tain’t a question of you associating with us, Trude.  It ain’t a question of our worth to you; it is your worth to us, to ROFF.  I see you as a humorless, shallow little snot who is high on himself rather than flyfishing and life. Have a great life, man.  You are gonna die lonely. Dave LaCourse

Response:

See ya and slack lines<

Yeah, keep your fly zipped.

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Have a great life, man.  You are gonna die lonely.<

And soon, I would guess.

Response:

Oh, and yeah, I forgot something: "Embarrased" has TWO (2) esses.  Count them if you can:  EMBARRASSED.   And I betcha you are!!!!!   Dave LaCourse

Response:

Geeeeze, I keep forgetting things to say to old Trude: Thanks, Shallow One, for starting this thread.  I have a feeling it is gonna (I didn’t research the spelling of that) be quite entertaining.  <g Old Ignore-ant Dave, with a transmissheyon in my bathtub and an old rusty Studebaker truck in my front yard

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It was suggested to me, that I browse this newsgroup, and invite you to my server,  where I  provide a real-time chat room and a ‘free’ FTP service. I read the postings, and decided you are definitely NOT worth the effort on my part. This is ‘Fly Fishing’ :  an intelligent, refined sport. Why are "some" of you so IGNORANT, and RUDE to the thoughts and ideas of others ?      And your lack of research on any given subject is abominable. Before commenting, know the facts.  You just make yourself look foolish.

Well, Mr. Trude Gosh, my level of disappointment has achived an all time high.  Please be sure to offer us your complete and verbose critique on the content herein.  After that, I’m certain that each and every participant would appreciate your candid assessment of all of the details of our personal lives as well.  Obviously, the sage advice of one who commands such a presence ought not be missed. On second thought, your quietly slipping back into your own little fantasy world (the one *far* away from here) will be sufficient. Bye, now, Mr. Trude. Tom — Tom Brown The Signal Group Wake Forest, NC HEATHEN, n. A benighted creature who has the folly to worship something that he can see and feel.                – Ambrose Bierce: The Devil’s Dictionary

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It was suggested to me, that I browse this newsgroup, and invite you to my server,  where I  provide a real-time chat room and a ‘free’ FTP service. I read the postings, and decided you are definitely NOT worth the effort on my part. This is ‘Fly Fishing’ :  an intelligent, refined sport. Why are "some" of you so IGNORANT, and RUDE to the thoughts and ideas of others ?      And your lack of research on any given subject is abominable. Before commenting, know the facts.  You just make yourself look foolish.

If you want rude try this. Barge into a place where your not known and, very first thing, insult everyone. That’s rude. — something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Geeeeze, I keep forgetting things to say to old Trude: Thanks, Shallow One, for starting this thread.  I have a feeling it is gonna (I didn’t research the spelling of that) be quite entertaining.  <g Old Ignore-ant Dave, with a transmissheyon in my bathtub and an old rusty Studebaker truck in my front yard

Dave..whacha want for the stud? oh yeah, almost forgot, trudy, watch that front door, it has a nasty tendency to hit asses on the way out. waldo — Ezflyfish.com                 Blue Ridge Book Gallery Quality Gear & Service        Used & Out-of-Print Books http://www.ezflyfish.com      http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 (828)963-5001

Response:

apologies to the group…I couldn’t resist damnit…where’s my beer? waldo — Ezflyfish.com                 Blue Ridge Book Gallery Quality Gear & Service        Used & Out-of-Print Books http://www.ezflyfish.com      http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 (828)963-5001

Response:

<snip

An anonymous insult from a cretin that can’t even spell embarrassed, yet sees fit to put it in the subject header. Talk about looking foolish. Hang around Trude, you could learn some things from the rude and ignorant denizens of ROFF. I doubt that you will, your head is tucked so far up your a** your hemorrhoids hug your bow tie. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Question:

I will be going to MSU in mid October for a meeting and was thinking about bringing my gear to try a little fly fishing in the area. Could anyone give me a few suggestions as to the in’s and out’s of the area? Any information would be great. eg locations, conditions, etc. Many thanks, Brian — Brian

Response:

I do not know Lansing area, but mid-October on in MI advice from me is: 1.Get the licence and booklet and note where rivers have "extended seasons"   (for Steelhead, Salmon, Trout). 2. Go there.  Target steelhead.  Closest famous place may be Grand Rapids on the Grand, but the Grand comes right into lansing.  I’ve seen Salmon climb the step damn at Grand Ledge.  You will be semi close to the Pere Marquette, White, Manistee, Little Manistee, etc.  (1.5-3 hrs) Mid october may present a problem of "Black ugly chinook present".              - rork.

: I will be going to MSU in mid October for a meeting and was thinking about : bringing my gear to try a little fly fishing in the area. Could anyone : give me a few suggestions as to the in’s and out’s of the area? Any : information would be great. eg locations, conditions, etc. Many thanks, : Brian : — : Brian

Response:

I don’t know about specific locations but I read recently that parts of the Grand River around Lansing are the best Smallmouth waters in the entire state, and that’s not just for rivers. Good luck, Jason Schwartz I will be going to MSU in mid October for a meeting and was thinking about bringing my gear to try a little fly fishing in the area. Could anyone give me a few suggestions as to the in’s and out’s of the area? Any information would be great. eg locations, conditions, etc. Many thanks, Brian — Brian

Response:

Brian, General trout season ends on September 30 but there are extended season trout streams.  Fish creek is about an hour + from Lansing and does have brown and brook trout.  However, I recommend you stay in the Lansing area.  Lake Lansing is one of the better large mouth bass lakes in the state and is just outside of town.  There are also lots of panfish (bluegill, pumpkinseed, and black crappie) and some pike.  The Red Cedar River, which runs through the MSU campus, has a variety of warmwater fish.  The Grand River, which runs through Lansing and points West, has small mouth bass among others.  If you are interested I know a guide who is an expert on the Grand and can show you the ropes.  And there is a TU group here that can be helpful. Tom – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I will be going to MSU in mid October for a meeting and was thinking about bringing my gear to try a little fly fishing in the area. Could anyone give me a few suggestions as to the in’s and out’s of the area? Any information would be great. eg locations, conditions, etc. Many thanks, Brian — Brian

Response:

Question:

Will be in Hilton Head, SC next week to give a couple of talks.  Have some free time.  Any saltwater or brackish water FF to be had in the area?  Guides or tackle shops?  Thanks. J. Rice

Response:

david murray in beaufort, south carolina is the best guide i have ever fished with his # is 803-525-6820 tell him monty in nashville sent you, he’s a great guy and will put you on redfish. Monty Powell

Response:

david murray in beaufort, south carolina is the best guide i have ever fished with his # is 803-525-6820 tell him monty in nashville sent you, he’s a great guy and will put you on redfish. Monty Powell

I agree!! Steve Rosenblum Ann Arbor

Response:

Question:

Sorry about the subject error, but does anyone know of any WWW sites about fly fishing

Response:

The only ones I know of are: http://www.geo.mtu.edu/~jsuchosk/fish/fishpage http://www.indirect.com/ftplink/jshannon.indirect.com.html http://www.unm.edu/pub/flyfish/flyfish.html http://www2.ecst.csuchico.edu/~jschlich http://oeonline.com/~rmarsh/fishpg.html http://www.mind.net/vmt http://www.getnet.com/salmoart http://rmii.com/~flyshop/flyshop.html http://zebu.uoregon.edu/cgi-bin2/Mckenzie/Mckfrontend.pl http://www.peak.org/~robertr/fishing.html http://eagle.dfw.or.gov I hope it is appropriate to publish these.  I started to just email them to you, then decided others might be interested.  I make no guarantees on the effectiveness of these addresses.   If my typing skills don’t get you, some are untested, some are just dated.  I haven’t actually tried all of these since I generally get into this group before getting on the WEB and then I run out of time after reading all the posts on how we hate YUPs.  I need to start a thread on Lawyers…… Have fun, Charley

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