Question:

If you think that is weird, check out this; Abraham Lincoln was elected to Congress in 1846. John F. Kennedy was elected to Congress in 1946. Abraham Lincoln was elected President in 1860. John F. Kennedy was elected President in 1960. The names Lincoln and Kennedy each contain seven letters. Both were particularly concerned with civil rights. Both wives lost their children while living in the White House. Both Presidents were shot on a Friday. Both were shot in the head. Lincoln’s secretary, Kennedy, warned him not to go to the theatre. Kennedy’s secretary, Lincoln, warned him not to go to Dallas. Both were assassinated by Southerners. Both were succeeded by Southerners. Both successors were named Johnson. Andrew Johnson, who succeeded Lincoln, was born in 1808. Lyndon Johnson, who succeeded Kennedy, was born in 1908. John Wilkes Booth was born in 1839. Lee Harvey Oswald was born in 1939. Both assassins were known by their three names. Both names are comprised of fifteen letters Booth ran from the theater and was caught in a warehouse. Oswald ran from a warehouse and was caught in a theater. Booth and Oswald were assassinated before their trials. Coincidence? Hardly… Your Bug – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …and I`m not leaving. Your Bug Whatever.  Don’t get fixated on it and it will go away. Snookered again Collier, you whacko. Simple google search "nolio collier" points me to this page: http://www.cdkitchen.com/rfr/data/915228089.shtml There, the following is posted Newsgroups: rec.food.recipes If you’ve ever been to the Italian pizza restaurant Bertucci’s and dared to try one of their more unusual pizzas, you may be familar with this pizza which contains no tomato sauce…. Bertucci’s Nolio Pizza 1 medium yellow onion 1 tsp white pepper 1 cup heavy cream 1/2 lemon 1 – 1 1/2 cup shredded prosciutto 1 1/2 cup shredded mozzarella cheese 1 package Pilsbury pizza dough (or home made). Olive oil. Preheat oven to 400 F. Boil heavy cream until thickened. Add white pepper and the juice from a half of a lemon.   Slice onion very thin so that you are left with rings. Saute onion rings in olive oil until they are starting to get brown. Assemble pizza as follows: Unroll pizza dough onto a non-stick pizza pan. Add cheese, then prosciutto. (I like to add some pepperoni slices too).  Add the cream mixture at a time to the pizza, a tablespoon at a time, forming little puddles spread around the pizza. Drain the onions and put them on last. They will continue to carmelize as the pizza bakes.   Bake 8-10 minutes. Don’t over bake. You don’t want to "dry out" the pizza. You are sick, Collier.  Your need to be accepted is pitiful.  Print out these threads of the last couple of weeks, and take them to your shrink.   Tell him/her that you seek acceptance on ROFF because your frat brothers never accepted you, and beg him for help. Save your pride, and don’t take this as a challenge to come up with an alias that an idiot like me couldn’t bust.  You are a pitiful excuse for a human being, and getting more so rapidly. Also, what kind of idiot would poison a perfectly good pizza with heavy cream?

Response:

Thanks, Wayne, Frank, Dave.   She’s out of danger now, just getting meds adjusted and the doctors popping in with contradictory opinions on when she can go home.  I think some want to keep her until they can track down the cause, rather than just letting her go when she seems okay.   It’s just wearing when everything to do with my kids or pets is always emergencies (okay, myself, too.).   When even the cats wait to get sick until the regular vet is closed, you know you’ve got a pattern going.  Although the dog never required a vet ER and my husband never even sees a regular doctor.  I have now seen the ERs of 5 different hospitals (not counting the ones I worked for in the long ago.) for actual emergencies.  Some of them more than once.   She sympathized with me about camping and fishing.  Said if she were in my spot, she’d want to go, too.  Heck, even though she hates camping and has never fished, she’d probably rather be doing that then trying to con the nurses in to taking her out for a cigarette. — rbc:  vixen    Fairly harmless Hit reply to email. Though I’m very slow to respond. http://www.visi.com/~cyli

Response:

cyli writes: BTW, I do cook; sometimes very oddly, though.  

You and I would get along very well.  Hope your daughter is better. Dave

Response:

You can’t imagine how much more I’d rather be camping and fishing than visiting a hospital.  Or listening to a getting well cranky adult around the house.  Okay, maybe you can.  20 randy old guys would be a breeze. BTW, I do cook; sometimes very oddly, though. — rbc:  vixen    Fairly harmless

My best to you and yours.  Hope all is better soonest. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply

Response:

Mom and daughter both, HANG IN THERE!  Remember Nancy’s web site I sent you? Go there and drop her a note to let her know what’s going on with your daughter trial’s and tribulations.  I think you’ll find her a great person to "talk" to.  Her insights can be most enlightening. — Wayne To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks, but my next week promises to be almost as nasty as last, except it seems my daughter _is_ likely to live.  But the only day off she’s giving me from visiting her in the hospital is tomorrow (today? Sunday, anyway.).   What are the odds an apparently healthy 30 year old woman would suddenly come down with clots all over her body? Doctors are going nuts (always a good sign, means they’re working hard at discovering the cause.).  They thought she’d be coming home on about Monday or Tuesday, but complications have ensued. You can’t imagine how much more I’d rather be camping and fishing than visiting a hospital.  Or listening to a getting well cranky adult around the house.  Okay, maybe you can.  20 randy old guys would be a breeze. BTW, I do cook; sometimes very oddly, though. — rbc:  vixen    Fairly harmless Hit reply to email. Though I’m very slow to respond. http://www.visi.com/~cyli

Response:

Say, the guy who was supposed to go down to Cape Lookout with me this coming weekend has to fly to Europe instead.  Lots of False Albacore and camping on the beach.  If you can get to Richmond by Thursday evening and bring your basic camping stuff, I have an extra Albacore rig and room in the car.  Just think! 20 randy old guys out on a spit of sand in the Atlantic and ONE woman!! (do you cook?)   BTW, The invitation is for reel!

Thanks, but my next week promises to be almost as nasty as last, except it seems my daughter _is_ likely to live.  But the only day off she’s giving me from visiting her in the hospital is tomorrow (today? Sunday, anyway.).   What are the odds an apparently healthy 30 year old woman would suddenly come down with clots all over her body? Doctors are going nuts (always a good sign, means they’re working hard at discovering the cause.).  They thought she’d be coming home on about Monday or Tuesday, but complications have ensued. You can’t imagine how much more I’d rather be camping and fishing than visiting a hospital.  Or listening to a getting well cranky adult around the house.  Okay, maybe you can.  20 randy old guys would be a breeze.   BTW, I do cook; sometimes very oddly, though.   — rbc:  vixen    Fairly harmless Hit reply to email. Though I’m very slow to respond. http://www.visi.com/~cyli

Response:

Say, the guy who was supposed to go down to Cape Lookout with me this coming weekend has to fly to Europe instead.  Lots of False Albacore and camping on the beach.  If you can get to Richmond by Thursday evening and bring your basic camping stuff, I have an extra Albacore rig and room in the car.  Just think! 20 randy old guys out on a spit of sand in the Atlantic and ONE woman!! (do you cook?)   BTW, The invitation is for reel! — Wayne To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Who cares? You came on with all the same errors he did, so whether or not you’re him is immaterial to those of us who are or are studying to be assholes. Maybe you were twins separated at birth? …and I`m not leaving. Okay. Your Bug Not mine.  It can take years of good posts and good manners to make me mellow out.   For my first 5 years or so of electronic communications I was regarded as kindly and forgiving.  I got over it.  For the next 5 years or so, I only took out after the occasional user who reminded me of a horde of black flies.  I got over that, too.  Now I can take offense at mere gnats, if their timing is right and their promise is of growth. — rbc:  vixen    Fairly harmless Hit reply to email. Though I’m very slow to respond. http://www.visi.com/~cyli

Response:

Rest Your case! Without further checking of the accuracy of your facts, this obviously proves that the asassinations were planned and performed by the same "Firm", maybe they should be a bit more inventious in their planning… There is a lawyer in the house, what do You say?? Coincidence #2: John Kennedy (Toole) wrote of a confederacy of dunces, You wrote of a confederacy against John (F) Kennedy… Weird world this! Stefan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you think that is weird, check out this; Abraham Lincoln was elected to Congress in 1846. John F. Kennedy was elected to Congress in 1946. Abraham Lincoln was elected President in 1860. John F. Kennedy was elected President in 1960. The names Lincoln and Kennedy each contain seven letters. Both were particularly concerned with civil rights. Both wives lost their children while living in the White House. Both Presidents were shot on a Friday. Both were shot in the head. Lincoln’s secretary, Kennedy, warned him not to go to the theatre. Kennedy’s secretary, Lincoln, warned him not to go to Dallas. Both were assassinated by Southerners. Both were succeeded by Southerners. Both successors were named Johnson. Andrew Johnson, who succeeded Lincoln, was born in 1808. Lyndon Johnson, who succeeded Kennedy, was born in 1908. John Wilkes Booth was born in 1839. Lee Harvey Oswald was born in 1939. Both assassins were known by their three names. Both names are comprised of fifteen letters Booth ran from the theater and was caught in a warehouse. Oswald ran from a warehouse and was caught in a theater. Booth and Oswald were assassinated before their trials. Coincidence? Hardly… Your Bug

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …and I`m not leaving. Your Bug Whatever.  Don’t get fixated on it and it will go away. Snookered again Collier, you whacko. Simple google search "nolio collier" points me to this page: http://www.cdkitchen.com/rfr/data/915228089.shtml There, the following is posted Newsgroups: rec.food.recipes If you’ve ever been to the Italian pizza restaurant Bertucci’s and dared to try one of their more unusual pizzas, you may be familar with this pizza which contains no tomato sauce…. Bertucci’s Nolio Pizza 1 medium yellow onion 1 tsp white pepper 1 cup heavy cream 1/2 lemon 1 – 1 1/2 cup shredded prosciutto 1 1/2 cup shredded mozzarella cheese 1 package Pilsbury pizza dough (or home made). Olive oil. Preheat oven to 400 F. Boil heavy cream until thickened. Add white pepper and the juice from a half of a lemon.   Slice onion very thin so that you are left with rings. Saute onion rings in olive oil until they are starting to get brown. Assemble pizza as follows: Unroll pizza dough onto a non-stick pizza pan. Add cheese, then prosciutto. (I like to add some pepperoni slices too).  Add the cream mixture at a time to the pizza, a tablespoon at a time, forming little puddles spread around the pizza. Drain the onions and put them on last. They will continue to carmelize as the pizza bakes.   Bake 8-10 minutes. Don’t over bake. You don’t want to "dry out" the pizza. You are sick, Collier.  Your need to be accepted is pitiful.  Print out these threads of the last couple of weeks, and take them to your shrink. Tell him/her that you seek acceptance on ROFF because your frat brothers never accepted you, and beg him for help. Save your pride, and don’t take this as a challenge to come up with an alias that an idiot like me couldn’t bust.  You are a pitiful excuse for a human being, and getting more so rapidly. Also, what kind of idiot would poison a perfectly good pizza with heavy cream?

Response:

Who cares?   You came on with all the same errors he did, so whether or not you’re him is immaterial to those of us who are or are studying to be assholes. Maybe you were twins separated at birth?   …and I`m not leaving.

Okay. Your Bug

Not mine.  It can take years of good posts and good manners to make me mellow out.   For my first 5 years or so of electronic communications I was regarded as kindly and forgiving.  I got over it.  For the next 5 years or so, I only took out after the occasional user who reminded me of a horde of black flies.  I got over that, too.  Now I can take offense at mere gnats, if their timing is right and their promise is of growth. — rbc:  vixen    Fairly harmless Hit reply to email. Though I’m very slow to respond. http://www.visi.com/~cyli

Response:

…and I`m not leaving.

Wow, are you pathetic.  You even went to the trouble of locating the incorrect apostrophe on your keyboard.  Really sad.

Response:

Nicely done. Though, in truth, you needn’t have bothered, as with the possible exception of Citizen Luser himself, everyone here knew he and "nolio" were one and the same pathetic moron f*ckwit… /daytripper (On him from the jump.)

It’s kind of like a sore festering under a bandage.  You know it’s ugly, but you just have to lift the bandage to look anyway. — Scott Reverse first field of address to reply

Response:

find other posts from this gentleman. He lives in Iowa. However, he did make a purchase on eBay… In fact, do a search on Michael Collier, and see how common that name is. Admittedly, the coincidence is stunning. Very sloppy investigative work, though. You did not complete your research. You would get torn apart on cross-examination. Anyway, good luck, Bug. We will see how long you can withstand the constant affronts to your common sense. This is one weird place. — Citizen Fisherman I promote Waterloo rods www.waterloorods.com

Response:

Snookered again Collier, you whacko.

I’ve come across some pathetic losers on Usenet, but Collier takes the prize.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …and I`m not leaving. Your Bug Whatever.  Don’t get fixated on it and it will go away. Snookered again Collier, you whacko. Simple google search "nolio collier" points me to this page: http://www.cdkitchen.com/rfr/data/915228089.shtml There, the following is posted Newsgroups: rec.food.recipes If you’ve ever been to the Italian pizza restaurant Bertucci’s and dared to try one of their more unusual pizzas, you may be familar with this pizza which contains no tomato sauce…. Bertucci’s Nolio Pizza 1 medium yellow onion 1 tsp white pepper 1 cup heavy cream 1/2 lemon 1 – 1 1/2 cup shredded prosciutto 1 1/2 cup shredded mozzarella cheese 1 package Pilsbury pizza dough (or home made). Olive oil. Preheat oven to 400 F. Boil heavy cream until thickened. Add white pepper and the juice from a half of a lemon.   Slice onion very thin so that you are left with rings. Saute onion rings in olive oil until they are starting to get brown. Assemble pizza as follows: Unroll pizza dough onto a non-stick pizza pan. Add cheese, then prosciutto. (I like to add some pepperoni slices too).  Add the cream mixture at a time to the pizza, a tablespoon at a time, forming little puddles spread around the pizza. Drain the onions and put them on last. They will continue to carmelize as the pizza bakes.   Bake 8-10 minutes. Don’t over bake. You don’t want to "dry out" the pizza. You are sick, Collier.  Your need to be accepted is pitiful.  Print out these threads of the last couple of weeks, and take them to your shrink.   Tell him/her that you seek acceptance on ROFF because your frat brothers never accepted you, and beg him for help. Save your pride, and don’t take this as a challenge to come up with an alias that an idiot like me couldn’t bust.  You are a pitiful excuse for a human being, and getting more so rapidly.

Nicely done. Though, in truth, you needn’t have bothered, as with the possible exception of Citizen Luser himself, everyone here knew he and "nolio" were one and the same pathetic moron f*ckwit… /daytripper (On him from the jump.)

Response:

…and I`m not leaving. Your Bug

Response:

…and I`m not leaving. Your Bug

Whatever.  Don’t get fixated on it and it will go away.

Response:

…and I`m not leaving.

Your stuff is much more interesting than the cross posted environmental drivel.

Response:

…and I`m not leaving. Your Bug Whatever.  Don’t get fixated on it and it will go away.

Snookered again Collier, you whacko. Simple google search "nolio collier" points me to this page: http://www.cdkitchen.com/rfr/data/915228089.shtml There, the following is posted Newsgroups: rec.food.recipes If you’ve ever been to the Italian pizza restaurant Bertucci’s and dared to try one of their more unusual pizzas, you may be familar with this pizza which contains no tomato sauce…. Bertucci’s Nolio Pizza 1 medium yellow onion 1 tsp white pepper 1 cup heavy cream 1/2 lemon 1 – 1 1/2 cup shredded prosciutto 1 1/2 cup shredded mozzarella cheese 1 package Pilsbury pizza dough (or home made). Olive oil. Preheat oven to 400 F. Boil heavy cream until thickened. Add white pepper and the juice from a half of a lemon.   Slice onion very thin so that you are left with rings. Saute onion rings in olive oil until they are starting to get brown. Assemble pizza as follows: Unroll pizza dough onto a non-stick pizza pan. Add cheese, then prosciutto. (I like to add some pepperoni slices too).  Add the cream mixture at a time to the pizza, a tablespoon at a time, forming little puddles spread around the pizza. Drain the onions and put them on last. They will continue to carmelize as the pizza bakes.   Bake 8-10 minutes. Don’t over bake. You don’t want to "dry out" the pizza. You are sick, Collier.  Your need to be accepted is pitiful.  Print out these threads of the last couple of weeks, and take them to your shrink.   Tell him/her that you seek acceptance on ROFF because your frat brothers never accepted you, and beg him for help. Save your pride, and don’t take this as a challenge to come up with an alias that an idiot like me couldn’t bust.  You are a pitiful excuse for a human being, and getting more so rapidly. Also, what kind of idiot would poison a perfectly good pizza with heavy cream? — Scott Reverse first field of address to reply

Response:

Also, what kind of idiot would poison a perfectly good pizza with heavy cream?

It’s pretty popular actually.  Not something you would want to eat all the time, but it can be pretty tasty!

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Still up late putting the fourth coat on a run of fifteen Happy Hooker blanks for the San Mateo show.  I don’t think I will have enough time to do them all but at least this explains why I’m on the tapering computer tonight. (snip)         george, please allow me to take this opportunity on behalf of all the little people here on roff to express our undying gratitude for this thrilling opportunity to share in the astonishing excitement generated by your "blow by blow" report of the fascinating process of creating those little works of art that bear the timeless and classy name of "happy hooker".         it is a tribute to your matchless magnanimity that you would take even an instant out of the awesome undertaking of this  historic venture to bless us with these stunning insights in to your genius. we can only grovel at your virtual feet in gratitude for our own unworthiness, and offer up thanks on behalf  of our humble lineage, yet unborn, that will gaze with wonder upon  our printouts of the words and actions of a true legend.         for myself, a personal note, much in the style of gus mcrae: "magnum manurum victorum bordomdom est"!   and i mean that with all my heart, george. wayno

___–  Wayne, old chap.  Believe this or not but the following of greatness eludes you.  There are a hundred advocates to the project that started as a dare on ROFF and like it or not, you fool . . . the information of those who may wish to "roll their own" i.e. (make their own fly rods) will be possible at the San Mateo Show for a lot less money then any other bamboo fly rod maker in this entire world. If you could "afford" to come to San Mateo (which is like thinking a fool could become a genius) you would realize that your worst enemy is yourself and that here is a better friend then you could ever imagine. I know what your problem is and so do you.  The difference is, I know how to deal and correct mine.  YOU, on the other hand still live in a world of ’self denial’ and those that suffer your foolishness are the ones that love you best. Screw you and all your excuses.  You’re not man enough to return to reality pard. Think about it! In short Wayne, you’re drunk again.   — (C) George Gehrke 2001 http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html     fine bamboo flyrods & blanks

Response:

Now, this was a long time ago, now, but as I remember it, George claimed he could mass-produce bamboo rods for under $300.  How long had he been thinking of trying before making the claim, or how serious was his pre-ROFF "planning"?  Who knows? Essentially, with much toing and froing, he was told by a number of people, "Bullshit.  Can’t be done.  Put your money where your mouth is."  A number of people agreed to buy rods at the proposed price if George built them.  My recollection is of not so much a challenge or wager as a dare–Roffians calling what they understandably thought was an empty bluff. OK, things went far and fast downhill from there (price, quality, customer relations, etc., etc.).  I’m not defending George as a rod-builder, businessman, or human being.  He’s certainly shown grave failings on all these counts.  His behavior on this NG is often far less than admirable and his behavior as a businessman appears to be purely reprehensible, hurting himself, probably, more than anyone else.  I too have stopped using Gink, in part because I discovered I "don’t like the management."  In the end, George proved that he could *not* do what he claimed he could, i.e., build a high-quality production rod for less than $300. Unhappily, he also appears to have proved along the way several other things about himself.  All I am saying is that–contrary to what I still maintain *everyone* thought at the time (that is, that George, being a blowhard, would not do anything at all, but would find some excuse to cop out)–he did put his money where his mouth was and made the attempt.  He failed; he treated customers, at least one employee, and potential friends abysmally in the attempt.  I’m not defending any of that, only saying that it’s pretty remarkable that any of this happened at all, rather than ending up just another NG thread full of b.s. that flares up in the ether then peters out. JR – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – George had plans to make the rod before he ever brought it up on roff. Contrary to popular myth, no one on roff "challenged" him to make the rod.  We all know what a bullshitter/liar he is, so how can you deal or "challenge" such a person?  BTW, he came nowhere near the price he first quoted.  At $583, he is way past what he originally quoted. rest snipped for brevity…

Response:

Yes, real tragic, I went there twice and gave to the project on got screwed. Without me those first few rods would not exist. G couldn’t and wouldn’t pay attention. The mill is nothing special. He didn’t have the touch to pull it off by himself.

Yes, and I know the details and it sucks and I did and do feel sorry for what happened. [deleted] Tbone stick it in your ear you know nothing cause you wern’t there, I WAS!

I commented only on the empirical data I cited:  He had a line of production rods at a major fly show. Did the means justify the end ? I do not know, have no way of knowing. Question (not rhetorical) Hairy: Why don’t you do it ? Your talent is obvious and if you’re really resentful of George that would be the ultimate way to show it. Competition would be great and I’m still in the market for a servicable bamboo fly rod for under the price of a good graphite. — YBone

Response:

[deleted] And maybe this Litte Brown Nose post of yours will get you one.

Personally, I think George only made one mistake…a spiritual one..with his first rod. He knows what it was and he has been paying ever since. — YBone

Response:

Opey’s Dad’s "review that came through the virtual transom," offered "for the sake of good order and balance", as interesting as it is, would carry more weight if it were not anonymous. JR

Anonymous my ass, that as my dad! Opie  –wishing dad would write to me, seems as though I hardly know him–

Response:

[deleted] And maybe this Litte Brown Nose post of yours will get you one. Personally, I think George only made one mistake…a spiritual one..with his first rod.

You can’t possibly be *that* clueless… can you? — Charlie…

Response:

Question (not rhetorical) Hairy: Why don’t you do it ?

Tbone at least you figured out that I attacked what you wrote and not you. And forgive me for all my smilly faces..that I forgot… ;-);-);-) better? His little dirt mill he paid a fortune and it did not work. All total there was much less than $2K in materials in it. While there, I brought it through several versions and improvments. And it would and did work if he wasn’t in a hurry. If he knew everything, then why was I there? I have been very tight lipped on all the imporvements that should have been made for obvious reasons. Now Tbone, to answer your real question, "I Could Do It." What I want for my time and what G pays his sweat shop labors ($7) is a very big difference. Better quality and a much higer price. Compitition with G? I would be a hands down winner in an instant about quality. G gardens nickels. I would garden ben franklins. Big difference. G markets with a shitty product. I would have a quality product and no market. So right there is the rub. Dumb people that don’t know any better get sucked into spending money on his glorified tomato stakes. HT

Response:

Personally, I think George only made one mistake…a spiritual one..with his first rod. He knows what it was and he has been paying ever since.

%50 correct, ad my son’s rod to the mix too! HT

Response:

Ya know… [snip] Well….for one thing I’d like to declare that George won the bet. I mean…there WAS George, my friends, at the Denver Fly Fishing Show…by God.  In a booth with ginger/honey/burnt blanks there can be no doubt about it. Pay up your flies and shut up your traps busters.

Speaking of bets I’m stilling waiting for you to pay up a dozen yellow humpys from October of 1999. Paul

Response:

Speaking of bets I’m stilling waiting for you to pay up a dozen yellow humpys from October of 1999.

Post the reference. — TBone

Response:

Everybody on this forum, practically without reserve, supported Mr.Gehrke in his efforts, not only with his rods, but with his website and other things. Many defended him against all comers, even long after their better judgement should have advised them otherwise. They would doubtless still be doing so, if he had not extremely successfully alienated just about everybody who offered support. Quite a few congratulated him on his progress, and gave advice and support on many occasions. He simply failed to recognise it as such, and insisted that his 300$ rods were the equal of any 1000$ rods around. This is patent nonsense. In actual fact, competent observers were of the opinion that they were not even worth 300$. However this may be, and notwithstanding the possibility that the rods are now excellent value, anybody who has followed the saga would be a fool to buy one. Mr.Gehrke is his own worst enemy. Nobody else is at fault here. Defending him on this forum, in this manner, is absolutely ridiculous, as you must be aware, and I find myself asking why you are doing it ? Hope you get a rod anyway, and I hope you enjoy it if you do.   Even were I to receive one as a gift, ( which I would not accept in any case), I would associate so much bad feeling with it, that it would ruin my fishing, quite irrespective of its qualities as a fishing tool. TL MC — "Where fishing is concerned, most anglers are basically manic excessives" http://www.mikeconnor.de Ya know… It’s really too bad the days when folkes were making bamboo rods for the masses are gone.

<SNIP

Response:

Speaking of bets I’m stilling waiting for you to pay up a dozen yellow humpys from October of 1999. Post the reference. — TBone

My mistake it was four(4) Irresistables. On 8-OCT-99 Louie claims in the thread "One Lie & Exaggeration Too Many by Daytripper" that " Day Tripper can *not* be egged on by anyone. " Shortly thereafter you posted a reply:         "Betcha 4 #18 Irresistables that he can…" Then I replied that I’d take the bet to which you replied:         "Ok…he responds to one of my trolls and you send me the dry flies…right ?         What’s my time limit ?" my reply to your time limit was:         "until Sunday the 17th, If you can’t get his goat by then no one can.         sf" On the 18th when I claimed victory you wanted to change the rules to 90 days. (Sounds like gore v. bush) Then in an email you sent me you said you’ld pay up. The message with headers is attached to the end of this post (although I did remove my street address). If anyone cares to verify this do a search on Deja of the past  post on ROFF. Paul Received: from ns1.aspenres.com (ns1.aspenres.com [204.131.50.1])  by eagle.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA26773 Received: from twalker (204.131.50.154) by ns1.aspenres.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;  charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-UIDL: f5d4ea1f8b0505fb39de6bced9c2f138 Status: RO I might just do that if for no other reason than Littleton, Co is my home town….but certainly not as the result of losing any bet !  Not yet…I have 78 days to go and (actually) I think the Mr.G setup/Big Brown Followup/Daytripper HOOK SWALLOW counts. But it’s weak at best so back to work… — TimW —–Original Message—– Hi Tim It’s Salmon_Fly You can send the Flies to Paul Goodwin

[snip]

Response:

So along comes George and off a bet on the Internet

George was blowharding how there was no more that $50 material and workmanship in a modern bamboo rod. There was no bet. — Charlie…

Response:

JR writes:

(snip) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Now, from what a lot of people have said, maintenance of quality control has been a big, big, big problem.  On the other hand, at least a few people, including one of the few Roffians I’ve met in person and whose opinion I trust, are happy with the rod they got, although otherwise no admirers of George’s persona here. So, is a company that can produce only one good final product out of five (or 10 or even 100) a viable concern?  Probably not, but this is a company that was started from a series of wagers and dares on a *newgroup* for Pete’s sake.  T-Bone is right about one thing:  George said–on the flimsiest of grounds, mind you–that he’d start a bamboo rod company, and he did it.  Everything else aside (and there is a quite lot, much of it unpretty, I admit), George deserves some credit at least for doing what *no one* believed he’d actually do. Opey’s Dad’s "review that came through the virtual transom," offered "for the sake of good order and balance", as interesting as it is, would carry more weight if it were not anonymous. JR

George had plans to make the rod before he ever brought it up on roff. Contrary to popular myth, no one on roff "challenged" him to make the rod.  We all know what a bullshitter/liar he is, so how can you deal or "challenge" such a person?  BTW, he came nowhere near the price he first quoted.  At $583, he is way past what he originally quoted.  For another $150 *or less*, you can get a *hand crafted* fly rod from a reputable rod builder, that looks, cast better, and has more value than anything George has made. George sent some rods to different people.  They *were not* production rods. They were rods that he very carefully built.  Steve sort of challenged George by saying if G would send a rod to him, he would give it an honest evaluation. What an opportunity for George!!!!  He worked hard and produced a fairly nice rod and sent it to Steve who gave it a good revue.  But, it was not a production rod.   George sent Dave Tatosian and me Bastard rods #11 and #12.  Because of George’s attitude and action I had canceled my order, but he sent it via Dave anyway.  I was touched that George would do such a thing.  It was a magnanimus gesture as far as I was concerned.  I took the rod and inspected it.  It was horribly constructed.  Twisted, curved, handle offset, glue lines, drips — it was horrible.  I put the rod together anyway and the ferrules did not fit.  He had given me the butt section with a  ferrule from XY company, and a tip with a ferrule from BX company — the rod was unfishable.  If you attempted to cast it, the tip would fly off. Dave’s #12 was no better.  It too was horrible and unfishable.  Dave had paid the freight – $40 – to receive these rods, and now he had to send them back – another $40.  Both of us had agreed to say nothing on roff about these rods. We did not want to embarass George.    We said nothing until George accused us of being provacateurs and sabataging his rods.  *WE* were responsible for the bent and twisted tips and butts.  *WE* were responsible for everything that was wrong with the rods.  *WE* took sandpaper to the ferrules so that they no longer fit properly.  Everything was *OUR* fault.  Everyone knew that it was plain bullshit on George’s part.  But the story doesn’t end with Dave and me.  Wish it did, but, uh uh. You see, George told everyone he destroyed the rods — burned em, he said.  But good old #12 returned and ended up in several peoples’ hands.  The first was Bob Smith (Plainties).  When Bob returned it (paying the freight both ways), George was insulted.  When another rod builder, a man of some fame, returned a set of blanks, George attacked both of them.  At one point he even verbally attacked Bob’s wife.   So you see, JR, why many of us have boycotted *anything* that George makes.  It appears from what I now hear that the boycot is well founded in that Gehrke continues to make crap.  But I do have a bottle of Gink.  No gink in it.  I fill it with Albolene (pain in the ass, I might add),  and it *thinks* it’s Gink.  Works just as well. Dave LaCourse Pirate and Bottom Dweller and so proud of it…..

Response:

Paul Goodwin writes:

(snipped) Geeeeze.  Remind me never to bet with you!  And I’ll never borrow money off of you either!   <g Dave

Response:

Still up late putting the fourth coat on a run of fifteen Happy Hooker blanks for the San Mateo show.  I don’t think I will have enough time to do them all but at least this explains why I’m on the tapering computer tonight. Another problem is not having enough time to run as many tips as we will need but that can be done after the show.  It takes nearly thirty minutes to dip each  coat and several hours after that to dry, but the blanks are looking good. — Mr.G. http://www.gink.com "the sage continues"

  gink.vcf

< 1K Download

Response:

Still up late putting the fourth coat on a run of fifteen Happy Hooker blanks for the San Mateo show.  I don’t think I will have enough time to do them all but at least this explains why I’m on the tapering computer tonight.

(snip)         george, please allow me to take this opportunity on behalf of all the little people here on roff to express our undying gratitude for this thrilling opportunity to share in the astonishing excitement generated by your "blow by blow" report of the fascinating process of creating those little works of art that bear the timeless and classy name of "happy hooker".         it is a tribute to your matchless magnanimity that you would take even an instant out of the awesome undertaking of this  historic venture to bless us with these stunning insights in to your genius. we can only grovel at your virtual feet in gratitude for our own unworthiness, and offer up thanks on behalf  of our humble lineage, yet unborn, that will gaze with wonder upon  our printouts of the words and actions of a true legend.         for myself, a personal note, much in the style of gus mcrae: "magnum manurum victorum bordomdom est"!   and i mean that with all my heart, george. wayno

Response:

Glad to hear from old Gus. Don"t think McMurtry"s new book ‘ "Boone’s Lick" will make it to screen unless he gets Opra  to play the mother. IJ

Response:

Ya know… It’s really too bad the days when folkes were making bamboo rods for the masses are gone. Tragic, really. I can not afford a thousand bucks for a bamboo fly rod but think I would be happy with one of the commerical ones of yesteryear.  Maybe a "Sears & Roebuck Good’nuf" model.  Ya know what I mean ?  We can get an Ugly Stick, which is a damned good value of a tool…but nothing like it exists in the bamboo world today, that I’ve found anyway. So along comes George and off a bet on the Internet, in these very halls, says he *can* bring these back And ya know what…he does. We can grovel about the initial production run quality issues and some business decisions and stuff, but that’s what I’d expect from an initial production run. Wouldn’t you ? With millions of dollar backing you could throw away the first few runs. Not so when you gotta eat. They become prototypes. Something to build on. Next time…I’ll do ‘this’ with the finish. We know the history of this venture. This was no cake walk for George, who shared with us (and anyone of us who thinks they can do better) every [personal] sweat off his brow. He made some friends, he made some enemies. He started the Little Brown Truck (I’m still waiting…) You *literally* could publish a book just from the posts here.  Someone probably will. What does it mean ? Well….for one thing I’d like to declare that George won the bet. I mean…there WAS George, my friends, at the Denver Fly Fishing Show…by God.  In a booth with ginger/honey/burnt blanks there can be no doubt about it. Pay up your flies and shut up your traps busters. As for the boredom of this post.  Ya get out what you put in sometimes and I got out something really cool and what was probably really hard for George (George doesn’t whine so it’s hard to know)…the business decision of getting his ass in the show with some product and (what must be very difficult and take huge huevos) make the tip sections later. Real world stuff for a guy with a milling machine in the garage. He posted *from* his taper computer.  How freakin’ studly is that ? Bravo George. — TBone

Response:

Still up late putting the fourth coat on a run of fifteen Happy Hooker blanks for the San Mateo show.  I don’t think I will have enough time to do them all but at least this explains why I’m on the tapering computer tonight. Another problem is not having enough time to run as many tips as we will need but that can be done after the show.  It takes nearly thirty minutes to dip each  coat and several hours after that to dry, but the blanks are looking good.

_______FOR the sake of good order and balance, here’s a review that came in through the virtual transom *a few weeks ago* (<== keep that in mind). Didn’t write it, just passing it along. But it seems appropriate, right here, right now. Take it or leave it… /Opey’s Dad   (…and have a SUPER day! "Even using the term Rodmaker around anything resembling the Bastard is insulting all rodmakers as well as all Bastards!   "I went to a fly-fishing show in Denver this morning and looked around for bargains and the usual "stuff" that a flyfisher needs from time to time. "Alas, who is there in full force but Hizzoner the Gink hiself!  Even had the kid with the entourage!  I looked at the rods, (whoa there feller, lets not insult rods) I mean Poles, that he had on display at the show.  I have five year old  grandson who could do a better job! "No Shit, guys -n- gals!  This guy turns out crap and it has a Capital C in big red letters!  Missed finishing several spots of the windings on every rod!!  NO winding check and the forward end of the cork grips looked as if it had been cut with a dull axe and then run over a few times. He told me he didn’t put checks on to save costs!!!!   "I am just a plastic builder who lurks here to learn all I can about the jillion or so aspects of the trade of rodbuilding, and I guarantee you that no rod of that caliber will EVER, EVER, EVER leave my shop!  Let alone be taken to a flyfishing show and displayed as craftsmanship.  What a joke! "If you real builders are concerned in the LEAST about this yahoo producing anything that might be remotely construed as a bamboo rod, worry NOT!!!  I venture that he was the complete laughingstock of the show and now 10,000 flyfishers know what his crap looks like!   I did not even bother to cast one of them, wouldn’t waste my time!!!  (And I’m Cheap!!!, just ask all the ladies!!)  I’m not one ti talk most folks down but this guy is out there a looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong ways! an average of NO rods/day!  This guy has not built one to date if his life’s work is like what I saw today.  I literally chuckled for four hours as I walked the show floor!  This guy wouldn’t make a pimple on a rodbuilder’s butt! "As I see it, any further ink about the Bastard Rod is a lie, there is no such thing!!  What I saw today is not, by any stretch of my imagination, a rod. sorta like the old riddle about what do you call a boomerang that doesn’t come back? "A stick!"

Response:

And ya know what…he does. We can grovel about the initial production run quality issues and some business decisions and stuff, but that’s what I’d expect from an initial production run. Wouldn’t you ?

Certainly. Unfortunately, George wasn’t willing to accept or admit to the fact that they were only "initial production run" quality. And, two years later they’re still initial production run quality. If he had been willing to simply admit that the rods had problems–some of them serious–nearly everyone would still be championing his effort. 99% of the grief he’s taken on this forum can be directly attributed to his inability to be honest about the quality of his work. Period. End of story. We know the history of this venture. This was no cake walk for George, who shared with us (and anyone of us who thinks they can do better) every [personal] sweat off his brow. He made some friends, he made some enemies. He started the Little Brown Truck (I’m still waiting…)

And maybe this Litte Brown Nose post of yours will get you one. –Steve

Response:

We know the history of this venture. This was no cake walk for George, who shared with us (and anyone of us who thinks they can do better) every [personal] sweat off his brow. He made some friends, he made some enemies. He started the Little Brown Truck (I’m still waiting…) And maybe this Litte Brown Nose post of yours will get you one.

Sorry to follow up my own post, but for all you out there awaiting delivery of a Bastard rod, I’ve got one I’ll sell you that is available for immediate delivery. It’s been used only a couple of times and I believe it represents the very best rod that the production line has ever produced. It’s in essentially new condition (except for the fact that I straightened the tip, which was a bit crooked when I received it). $350 plus shipping will deliver it right to your door. Contact me via email if interested. –Steve

Response:

Well, I’ve never seen a Bastard rod, but I have followed the history of this business a bit.  In late 98, early 99, before taking off to Rwanda for a year, I read ROFF frequently and posted occasionally.  One of the most amusing shticks then was George declaring he would, then setting out to produce inexpensive mass-market bamboo rods.  There was a lot of nonsense about the name, price, guarantees, etc., but I think it safe to say that most, if not all people on ROFF assumed it was run-of-the-mill BS and would simply never happen.  When I came back to the U.S. in the summer of 2000, I was frankly astounded that rods had been built and at least some sold. Now, from what a lot of people have said, maintenance of quality control has been a big, big, big problem.  On the other hand, at least a few people, including one of the few Roffians I’ve met in person and whose opinion I trust, are happy with the rod they got, although otherwise no admirers of George’s persona here.  So, is a company that can produce only one good final product out of five (or 10 or even 100) a viable concern?  Probably not, but this is a company that was started from a series of wagers and dares on a *newgroup* for Pete’s sake.  T-Bone is right about one thing:  George said–on the flimsiest of grounds, mind you–that he’d start a bamboo rod company, and he did it.  Everything else aside (and there is a quite lot, much of it unpretty, I admit), George deserves some credit at least for doing what *no one* believed he’d actually do. Opey’s Dad’s "review that came through the virtual transom," offered "for the sake of good order and balance", as interesting as it is, would carry more weight if it were not anonymous. JR – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – _______FOR the sake of good order and balance, here’s a review that came in through the virtual transom *a few weeks ago* (<== keep that in mind). Didn’t write it, just passing it along. But it seems appropriate, right here, right now. Take it or leave it…

Response:

Ya know… It’s really too bad the days when folkes were making bamboo rods for the masses are gone. Tragic, really.

Yes, real tragic, I went there twice and gave to the project on got screwed. Without me those first few rods would not exist. G couldn’t and wouldn’t pay attention. The mill is nothing special. He didn’t have the touch to pull it off by himself. He started the Little Brown Truck (I’m still waiting…)

Lies just lies, http://x67.deja.com/[ST_rn=ps]/getdoc.xp?AN=511646402&CONTEXT=980711354.2046099489&hitnum=2 You *literally* could publish a book just from the posts here.  Someone probably will.

Should be called, "Bullshit ‘n Bamboo" Well….for one thing I’d like to declare that George won the bet. I mean…there WAS George, my friends, at the Denver Fly Fishing Show…by God.  In a booth with ginger/honey/burnt blanks there can be no doubt about it. Pay up your flies and shut up your traps busters.

As far as I’m concern G lost the bet cause he did not do by himself! Real world stuff for a guy with a milling machine in the garage.

More correct than a bamboo studio….. He posted *from* his taper computer.  How freakin’ studly is that ?

TAPER COMPUTER!!!!!! Such bullshit…..try a #2 lead pencil. The  first H.H. was read justed with a #2 graphite pencil. All he had was data points from Paul Whitely, what fucking computer program? Walt Winters rod was the basis for what i felt needed to be changed, and so the #2 lead pencil computation change. Tbone stick it in your ear you know nothing cause you wern’t there, I WAS! HT

Response:

Ya know… … Bravo George.

Prattle on if you wish Timbo, but his hubris, deceit, outright lies and character assassination cannot be brushed off as eccentricities or the foibles of an old curmudgeon. George Gehrke is a vile and vicious little man of no character and defending him in this forum is preposterous. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Question:

I have some scans of pictures taken of the Elk River in BC that I obtained from the local fly shop.  If you wish, I could email them to you. Peter

Response:

I have some scans of pictures taken of the Elk River in BC that I obtained from the local fly shop.  If you wish, I could email them to you. Peter

Sure Peter, thanks.  Have you ever fished there or know folks who do/have?  I have been to Canada a few times on hunting trips (going again next November to Anticosti) but never to BC and it does sound and look like it would be a wonderful trip. Before you buy.

Response:

I regularly fish the Elk River and tribs in BC, as well as the Crowsnest and other rivers in SW Alberta. I live in Lethbridge, Alberta, just a short hop from the area. I also run a web page about fishing in the area. It is at: www.telusplanet.net/public/cnangler/html Feel free to contact me by private e-mail to discuss this area, if you like. It is a wonderful place to fish. Tim Lysyk

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m contemplating a 3 day guided FF’ing trip in the spring.  I’ve wanted to do a pack trip to West Virginia to fish the Elk River and some of the surrounding streams for a few years, just have never gotten the time.  But recently I’ve received information on two other spots, one in particular, that sound enticing…one in North Carolina and one in eastern British Columbia. BC:  The Elk River and its tributaries that run through eastern BC and the East Kootenay valleys.  Trip would most likely be two days of walk and wade and one day of driftboat fishing.  According to my literature, native cuts are the standard catch.  Some of the other rivers mentioned are the Oldman River and the Crowsnest. It sounds like a spectactularly beautiful area. WV: Have been thinking about WV for some time now.  Namely the Elk River but other smaller streams/rivers in the area too.  Some mentioned are the Cheat, Dry Fork, Glady Fork.  I don’t know what it is but I just can’t get WV out of my mind when I think of destinations.  Big plus…it’s probably just a days drive. NC:  Again, the Elk, Linville, North and South Toe.  Don’t really know much about the area except that it’s ont too far a drive and I’ve been told the areas mentioned are beautiful spots and the fishing is very good. So if anyone out there has first hand knowledge of these areas I’d love to here your opinions and comments on them.  Especially the BC trip….maybe some of the ROFF Canuck contingency can help out here. Also, if anyone knows of a good guide or two for these areas I’d appreciate the info.  I have names of guide services for these areas but other than looking for the "O" seal of approval, I’m picking blindly. Any help/comments are appreciated.  If anyone wants to discuss in Thanks in advance. Natty Before you buy.

Response:

I regularly fish the Elk River and tribs in BC, as well as the Crowsnest and other rivers in SW Alberta. I live in Lethbridge, Alberta, just a short hop from the area. I also run a web page about fishing in the area. It is at: www.telusplanet.net/public/cnangler/html Feel free to contact me by private e-mail to discuss this area, if you like. It is a wonderful place to fish. Tim Lysyk

Tim, I notice you have a picture of the Frank Slide on the front of your page.  Probably anyone who fishes the Crow has one, (mine was taken a lttle further downstream.) Peter

Response:

Actually, that is picture of very nice (and small in the picture) woman fly fishing in front of Turtle Mountain <G. By the way, I don’t take the pictures, my web page partner does (credit where credit is due). How often do you get this way?? Tim Lysyk

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I regularly fish the Elk River and tribs in BC, as well as the Crowsnest and other rivers in SW Alberta. I live in Lethbridge, Alberta, just a short hop from the area. I also run a web page about fishing in the area. It is at: www.telusplanet.net/public/cnangler/html Feel free to contact me by private e-mail to discuss this area, if you like. It is a wonderful place to fish. Tim Lysyk Tim, I notice you have a picture of the Frank Slide on the front of your page.  Probably anyone who fishes the Crow has one, (mine was taken a lttle further downstream.) Peter

Response:

I’m contemplating a 3 day guided FF’ing trip in the spring.  I’ve wanted to do a pack trip to West Virginia to fish the Elk River and some of the surrounding streams for a few years, just have never gotten the time.  But recently I’ve received information on two other spots, one in particular, that sound enticing…one in North Carolina and one in eastern British Columbia. BC:  The Elk River and its tributaries that run through eastern BC and the East Kootenay valleys.  Trip would most likely be two days of walk and wade and one day of driftboat fishing.  According to my literature, native cuts are the standard catch.  Some of the other rivers mentioned are the Oldman River and the Crowsnest. It sounds like a spectactularly beautiful area. WV: Have been thinking about WV for some time now.  Namely the Elk River but other smaller streams/rivers in the area too.  Some mentioned are the Cheat, Dry Fork, Glady Fork.  I don’t know what it is but I just can’t get WV out of my mind when I think of destinations.  Big plus…it’s probably just a days drive. NC:  Again, the Elk, Linville, North and South Toe.  Don’t really know much about the area except that it’s ont too far a drive and I’ve been told the areas mentioned are beautiful spots and the fishing is very good. So if anyone out there has first hand knowledge of these areas I’d love to here your opinions and comments on them.  Especially the BC trip….maybe some of the ROFF Canuck contingency can help out here. Also, if anyone knows of a good guide or two for these areas I’d appreciate the info.  I have names of guide services for these areas but other than looking for the "O" seal of approval, I’m picking blindly. Any help/comments are appreciated.  If anyone wants to discuss in Thanks in advance. Natty Before you buy.

Response:

I’ve always thought it’s kind of bad form to just come right out and ask a question like, "Where are the best places to fish." I don’t really intend to criticise the original poster (was it Hawkeye?) about asking such a question, but it seems to me that you get better results from coming at the question in a little more roundabout way. It also helps to spend lots of money in local flyshops, and to leave the impression that you’re prepared to spend a lot more. Short of that, developing some kind of relationship with the people whose honey holes you want to discover is a good investment. It’s especially touchy when hot fishing spots are discussed openly in a public forum like ROFF. A little research about just who in the newsgroup is likely to be knowledgeable about a particular spot, and then some discrete private emails, would probably pay off better. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Actually, that is picture of very nice (and small in the picture) woman fly fishing in front of Turtle Mountain <G. By the way, I don’t take the pictures, my web page partner does (credit where credit is due). How often do you get this way?? Tim Lysyk

The mountain in my picture looks like the mountain in your picture, (I took it from Hwy 3) and the local brochures refered to the light gray part as the Frank Slide.  I never did get to know the name of the mountain. I’ve only been able to fish Alberta once (Little Staufer, the Bow and the Crow) but I’ve been out three times on business.  I’d love to get back to fish the Crow again, plus the Elk and the Livingston. BTW, loved that little white and red pizza restaurant in Fort MacLeod.  I thought Rocky Mountain House was quite the place.   Head-smashed-in was cool too.  I sat on the prairie and just drank in the smells. Fabulous place – I’d move in a twinkle if I could. (should I be saying this on the Usenet?  <g) Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

I’ve always thought it’s kind of bad form to just come right out and ask a question like, "Where are the best places to fish

rw, I dont mind that type of question.  If the asker is naive enough  to ask I am experienced enough to lie. Old Fart

Response:

kind of relationship with the people whose honey holes you want to discover is a good investment. It’s especially touchy when hot fishing spots are discussed openly in a public forum like ROFF. A little research about just who in the newsgroup is likely to be knowledgeable about a particular spot, and then some discrete private emails, would probably pay off better. (snipped)

Your point is well taken RW.  I’m not looking to invade anyones spot as whichever route I take will certainly be booked through a guide/outfitter.  I’m totally unfamiliar with those areas and without a guide would most likely be discovered months later fishing gear strapped to my back, rotting away in some wooded area, topo map and compass still in hand. I am merely seeking input from those who may have fished the streams and areas I mentioned, no particular part of the stream…that’s the guides job.  As for the private email, that is why I left my email in case someone didn’t want to get into the discussion in the open forum.  Maybe I’m wrong but I didn’t think it was proper Usenet protocol to contact people from the group via private email without an invitation to do so. I certainly understand folks not wanting to get into detailed location pointing here…I have my spots that I wouldn’t want to blab aloud too.  Sorry if it came out that way…if anyone wants to offer info I Natty (I promise I won’t bring hordes of NJ bred "cousin Vinnys" to your spot…:-) Before you buy.

Response:

The grey part is where the slide started. I always feel a sense of awe driving through the slide. I can’t remember the name of the pizza place in Fort Macleod, but will be driving through there tomorrow so will try to remember to get it. I can see the building in my mind. I love this area too. I used to work in Lethbridge during the summers when I was in university (78-80), and always dreamed of coming back to stay. I did in 1989. If you are ever come out this way again…..gimme a call. Tim Lysyk

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Actually, that is picture of very nice (and small in the picture) woman fly fishing in front of Turtle Mountain <G. By the way, I don’t take the pictures, my web page partner does (credit where credit is due). How often do you get this way?? Tim Lysyk The mountain in my picture looks like the mountain in your picture, (I took it from Hwy 3) and the local brochures refered to the light gray part as the Frank Slide.  I never did get to know the name of the mountain. I’ve only been able to fish Alberta once (Little Staufer, the Bow and the Crow) but I’ve been out three times on business.  I’d love to get back to fish the Crow again, plus the Elk and the Livingston. BTW, loved that little white and red pizza restaurant in Fort MacLeod.  I thought Rocky Mountain House was quite the place.   Head-smashed-in was cool too.  I sat on the prairie and just drank in the smells. Fabulous place – I’d move in a twinkle if I could. (should I be saying this on the Usenet?  <g) Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at

http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

I used your deja address for the photos – should I have used the other? Peter

Response:

I used your deja address for the photos – should I have used the other?

That’s fine Peter.  Truth is I only created a Deja address to keep from getting spammed on the other and actually have never checked it.  I can pick them up from deja mail.  Thanks very much! Natty Before you buy.

Response:

Your point is well taken RW.  I’m not looking to invade anyones spot as whichever route I take will certainly be booked through a guide/outfitter.  

Don’t worry about it. Like I said, I wasn’t criticising you. Natty (I promise I won’t bring hordes of NJ bred "cousin Vinnys" to your spot…:-)

— visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

I did in 1989. If you are ever come out this way again…..gimme a call.

Count on it Peter

Response:

Question:

A lot of people want to vote for Nader and help the Green Party, but they don’t want Bush to win. It’s possible that votes for Nader in swing states will throw the election to Bush. There are two websites that help:         http://www.nadertrader.org         http://www.voteswap2000.com The idea is that a Gore supporter will vote for Nader in a state that is safe for Bush (like Texas) if a Nader supporter will vote for Gore in a swing state. That way, the Green Party gets the same popular vote, but Bush (it is hoped) is denied a victory. This is going to get very interesting. I’ll bet the Bush campaign is going to go ballistic over this if it catches on. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A lot of people want to vote for Nader and help the Green Party, but they don’t want Bush to win. It’s possible that votes for Nader in swing states will throw the election to Bush. There are two websites that help:    http://www.nadertrader.org    http://www.voteswap2000.com The idea is that a Gore supporter will vote for Nader in a state that is safe for Bush (like Texas) if a Nader supporter will vote for Gore in a swing state. That way, the Green Party gets the same popular vote, but Bush (it is hoped) is denied a victory. This is going to get very interesting. I’ll bet the Bush campaign is going to go ballistic over this if it catches on. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ <

Why don’t you fucking people stop the fucking election bull shit, left or right, and get back to fly fishing. Joel Axelrad

Response:

Hey Jaxfly. Now, now.. relax.. it’s almost over.  Just keep repeating, it’s almost over. Instead of bitching, perhaps you might go fishing for a while, chill, and not read the political postings? now then, back to your regularly scheduled political ad….

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A lot of people want to vote for Nader and help the Green Party, but they don’t want Bush to win. It’s possible that votes for Nader in swing states will throw the election to Bush. There are two websites that help: http://www.nadertrader.org http://www.voteswap2000.com The idea is that a Gore supporter will vote for Nader in a state that is safe for Bush (like Texas) if a Nader supporter will vote for Gore in a swing state. That way, the Green Party gets the same popular vote, but Bush (it is hoped) is denied a victory. This is going to get very interesting. I’ll bet the Bush campaign is going to go ballistic over this if it catches on. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ < Why don’t you fucking people stop the fucking election bull shit, left or right, and get back to fly fishing. Joel Axelrad

Response:

Joel, a fellow Illini, includes rw’s whole damn post, then bitches: A lot of people want to vote for Nader … Why don’t you fucking people stop the fucking election bull shit, left or right, and get back to fly fishing.

— Ken Fortenberry- vote for Nader willya, Joel, won’t matter, Illinois is solid Gore.

Response:

Why don’t you fucking people stop the fucking election bull shit, left or right, and get back to fly fishing.

I take it you aren’t interested in trading a Gore vote for a Nader vote? — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Instead of bitching, perhaps you might go fishing for a while, chill,

Anyone who went fishing in the Northeast this weekend definitely chilled. Brrrrr! George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A lot of people want to vote for Nader and help the Green Party, but they don’t want Bush to win. It’s possible that votes for Nader in swing states will throw the election to Bush. There are two websites that help:    http://www.nadertrader.org    http://www.voteswap2000.com The idea is that a Gore supporter will vote for Nader in a state that is safe for Bush (like Texas) if a Nader supporter will vote for Gore in a swing state. That way, the Green Party gets the same popular vote, but Bush (it is hoped) is denied a victory. This is going to get very interesting. I’ll bet the Bush campaign is going to go ballistic over this if it catches on.

Here’s what the Nader people have to say about this From CNET: [That move drew criticism Saturday from Public Citizen, the umbrella group for consumer causes founded by Nader. It said the ads would mark "a new low" in the presidential campaign and "is designed to mislead voters." ] Interesting how the ultimate consumer/public advocate thinks this is something to mislead people.  I’ll borrow a favorite phrase of Al Gore’s and simply call it…"a risky scheme". Natty (one who knows a vast LEFT wing conspiracy when he sees one) Before you buy.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A lot of people want to vote for Nader and help the Green Party, but they don’t want Bush to win. It’s possible that votes for Nader in swing states will throw the election to Bush. There are two websites that help:    http://www.nadertrader.org    http://www.voteswap2000.com The idea is that a Gore supporter will vote for Nader in a state that is safe for Bush (like Texas) if a Nader supporter will vote for Gore in a swing state. That way, the Green Party gets the same popular vote, but Bush (it is hoped) is denied a victory. This is going to get very interesting. I’ll bet the Bush campaign is going to go ballistic over this if it catches on.

Why? The greasy weasels in the RNC are running *pro Nader* ads in many of the swing states – kinda puts them in a bind if they try to make any noise about trading votes… /daytripper

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A lot of people want to vote for Nader and help the Green Party, but they don’t want Bush to win. It’s possible that votes for Nader in swing states will throw the election to Bush. There are two websites that help:       http://www.nadertrader.org       http://www.voteswap2000.com The idea is that a Gore supporter will vote for Nader in a state that is safe for Bush (like Texas) if a Nader supporter will vote for Gore in a swing state. That way, the Green Party gets the same popular vote, but Bush (it is hoped) is denied a victory. This is going to get very interesting. I’ll bet the Bush campaign is going to go ballistic over this if it catches on. Here’s what the Nader people have to say about this From CNET: [That move drew criticism Saturday from Public Citizen, the umbrella group for consumer causes founded by Nader. It said the ads would mark "a new low" in the presidential campaign and "is designed to mislead voters." ] Interesting how the ultimate consumer/public advocate thinks this is something to mislead people.  I’ll borrow a favorite phrase of Al Gore’s and simply call it…"a risky scheme".

I’m afraid you’re wrong about this, Hawkeye. The criticism from Public Citizen was directed at the Bush campaign for using footage of Nader attacking Gore in their ads, in an obvious attempt to swing Gore support to Nader. I think this is actually a pretty low-down trick, but it’s probably legal. It may backfire. The websites I posted are actually being created and promoted by pro-Nader people (who don’t want Bush to win). I don’t know what the Nader ccampaign’s official position is. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Instead of bitching, perhaps you might go fishing for a while, chill, Anyone who went fishing in the Northeast this weekend definitely chilled. Brrrrr! George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

I had to clean the snow off my truck before I went to the store!                                  Mike

Response:

This is going to get very interesting. I’ll bet the Bush campaign is going to go ballistic over this if it catches on. Why? The greasy weasels in the RNC are running *pro Nader* ads in many of the swing states – kinda puts them in a bind if they try to make any noise about trading votes…

C’mon, Tripper. Get real. Since when has hypocrisy prevented the Republicans from complaining about something? — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

____  I smoked the fish but I didn’t inhale. — George G. Bastard Bamboo Fly Rods http://www.gink.com/ http://www.gink.com/chat

Response:

I’m afraid you’re wrong about this, Hawkeye. The criticism from Public Citizen was directed at the Bush campaign for using footage of Nader attacking Gore in their ads, in an obvious attempt to swing Gore support to Nader. I think this is actually a pretty low-down trick, but it’s probably legal. It may backfire. The websites I posted are actually being created and promoted by pro-Nader people (who don’t want Bush to win). I don’t know what the Nader ccampaign’s official position is.

When I’m wrong, I admit it…I’m wrong and you are right RW.  Shame on me for employing a "speed read" on the cnet article.  After giving it a second read I see the reference to the Bush /Nader ads. I agree it is a strategy that could very well backfire on GW.  As for it’s legality, I would think the vote swapping thing, if it’s highly organized would have a much better chance at raising some legal eyebrows than simply running ads for another candidate. I really can’t wait until this election is over.  Between fuzzy math, Tammy Fae Baker makeup, ice-tea drinking at Budhist temples, the whole American political process is a freak show.  Besides, I’m a man without a candidate. Natty (looking to pull the lever for the Libertarian candidate….for once) Before you buy.

Response:

Why don’t you fucking people stop the fucking election bull shit, left or right, and get back to fly fishing. Joel Axelrad

Good idea Joel. You start. Haven’t seen any posts from you lately, fishing or otherwise. Willi

Response:

Since when has hypocrisy prevented the Republicans from complaining about something?

Seems to me the dems are guilty of some hypocrisy as well.  Al Gore goes campaigning in the south talking about how he grew and harvested tobacco, then gets on the bandwagon to put the tobacco companies out of business.  Bill Clinton said "I pledge to run the most ethical administration in this nations history"….well, I don’t think I have to expand on that one.  And of course, Bill didn’t inhale which makes him either really stupid or just a liar….you decide. My point is that they are all hypocrits.  If you’re lucky enough to identify with one or two key issues shared with a candidate then cast your vote and hope they don’t pull a fast one on you. For me, I could never vote for Gore, a man who thinks the answer to any issue is a government program or handout.  A man who would re-write the 2nd amendment to read "..the right of the people to keep and bear a hunting rifle as long as said rifle is single shot, non-scoped, government approved and stored at the local law enforcement agency".  No, I don’t believe what dems try to spin to us….that republicans want to poison the air and water, throw our seniors into the streets and starve all the schoolchildren. It’s fuzzy politics (a little GW lingo there). Am I crazy about GW?  No way.  But if I had to choose between Al Gore and GW, I’ll take GW.  I recall a speech given by a democrat who said "…ask not what your country can do for you….". I think the democratic party has gotten away from where he was trying to take it. Just my .02 and I can almost feel the flames coming already. Natty (enjoying my access to the Al Gore created internet) Before you buy.

Response:

\ Why don’t you fucking people stop the fucking election bull shit, left or right, and get back to fly fishing. \

Because trout are more sensitive to environmental changes than bullhead or carp are. -Muskie

Response:

 If in doubt, vote for the brighter man. That would be Al Gore. -Muskie

Response:

Since when has hypocrisy prevented the Republicans from complaining about something? Seems to me the dems are guilty of some hypocrisy as well.  

Hypocrisy is endemic to politics. I have no doubt that Democratic politicians are often guilty of hypocrisy. The thing is, though, that the Republicans have raised it to an art form in recent years. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Seems to me the dems are guilty of some hypocrisy as well.  Al Gore goes campaigning in the south talking about how he grew and harvested tobacco, then gets on the bandwagon to put the tobacco companies out of business.

<balanced snipped for brevity Excellent post, Natty…..My feelings exactly. George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A lot of people want to vote for Nader and help the Green Party, but they don’t want Bush to win. It’s possible that votes for Nader in swing states will throw the election to Bush. There are two websites that help: http://www.nadertrader.org http://www.voteswap2000.com The idea is that a Gore supporter will vote for Nader in a state that is safe for Bush (like Texas) if a Nader supporter will vote for Gore in a swing state. That way, the Green Party gets the same popular vote, but Bush (it is hoped) is denied a victory. This is going to get very interesting. I’ll bet the Bush campaign is going to go ballistic over this if it catches on. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Is not bartering a form of sale? Is it not illegal to sell your vote? Besides I expect all those dead people in Miami to vote again like in 62. I expect if GW wins, the lights in Washington will dim from the overload caused by massive paper shredder use.

Response:

Is not bartering a form of sale? Is it not illegal to sell your vote?

There’s no barter involved. No one is selling a vote. It’s purely voluntary arrangement, based on trust, — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

 The thing is, though, that the Republicans have raised it to an art form in recent years. —

 Well hell yes ,why not ? they’ve had Bill Clinton to study and learn from for eight years. Bob-reluctantly Republican Before you buy.

Response:

Seems to me the dems are guilty of some hypocrisy as well.  Al Gore goes campaigning in the south talking about how he grew and harvested tobacco, then gets on the bandwagon to put the tobacco companies out of business.

How is that hypocrisy? When Gore was young the dangers of tobacco were not known and growing tobacco was a perfectly honorable way to make a living. Things are different now. There are plenty of examples of hypocrisy on both sides but this is not one of them. Peter G. Aitken

Response:

How is that hypocrisy? When Gore was young the dangers of tobacco were not known and growing tobacco was a perfectly honorable way to make a living.

The Surgeon General’s report on the dangers of smoking was released in 1964. Gore would have been in his teens. George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Seems to me the dems are guilty of some hypocrisy as well.  Al Gore goes campaigning in the south talking about how he grew and harvested tobacco, then gets on the bandwagon to put the tobacco companies out of business. How is that hypocrisy? When Gore was young the dangers of tobacco were not known and growing tobacco was a perfectly honorable way to make a living. Things are different now. There are plenty of examples of hypocrisy on both sides but this is not one of them. Peter G. Aitken

Gore was bragging to tobacco farmers in his home state when he was running for office that he " planted it, weeded it, picked it, cured it and sold it just like the rest of ya ", while at the same time his own sister was dying from smoking related cancer. Of coures after his sister died he saw a GREAT opportunity to use her death for political gain so after he was safely elected to the senate and running for president (1988) he gave his " sitting at my sisters death bed I vowed to fight against the tobacco industry with ever fiber of my being " speech. Just a few VERY SHORT years after his " I’m a PROUD tobacco farmer". Of course when he was running for office in Tennessee he was pro life, pro gun and pro tobacco. That’s what he needed to be to get elected. When he began running for the White House he became what he thought he needed to be to win, pro abortion, anti gun and anti tobacco. The guy is a bigger snake than Bill Clinton ever dreamed of being. I don’t know what kind of president G.W.B will make, you never know till they actually land the job. But I do know what kind of pres. Gore would be and I don’t want four years of him in the White House. Clintons main concern was his dick and looking for a legacy. Gore is a "crusader" with alot of bad ideas. He scares me "big time". Bob Before you buy.

Response:

Question:

When I moved into this place 3 months ago, I found that there was 3 dozen pigeons in my gables.  Through a very intense early morning patrol of: removing nests, slamming doors, making a presence known, building a board with nail, then putting an owl on the 3rd floor roof, I finally tried to scare them off with a BB gun.  Is the next step "Rat Nip"? I’m at my Wit’s end here. Thanks.

Response:

Try a LA Habor trick, They strung mono-filiment line ( fishing line) across the areas that the pigeons and seagulls liked to pearch and nest. They can’t see it and they fly right into it and bounce off and sometimes hit the ground. They learn quick that they can’t land there. Cris-cross it like a spider web, as I understant it,  it works very well. Other solution is a tack strip, with small sharp nails, the birds can’t stand on it. I hope this helps, (back to my regular lurk mode) John – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -When I moved into this place 3 months ago, I found that there was 3 dozen pigeons in my gables.  Through a very intense early morning patrol of: removing nests, slamming doors, making a presence known, building a board with nail, then putting an owl on the 3rd floor roof, I finally tried to scare them off with a BB gun.  Is the next step "Rat Nip"? I’m at my Wit’s end here. Thanks.

Response:

I had the same problem in my old three story house. Instead of a BB gun I used my sons’ Super Soaker squirt gun. It worked OK for a while – they seemd to know when I was gone and planned their activities accordingly. Mark Molnar – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When I moved into this place 3 months ago, I found that there was 3 dozen pigeons in my gables.  Through a very intense early morning patrol of: removing nests, slamming doors, making a presence known, building a board with nail, then putting an owl on the 3rd floor roof, I finally tried to scare them off with a BB gun.  Is the next step "Rat Nip"? I’m at my Wit’s end here. Thanks.

Response:

When I moved into this place 3 months ago, I found that there was 3 dozen pigeons in my gables.  Through a very intense early morning patrol of: removing nests, slamming doors, making a presence known, building a board with nail, then putting an owl on the 3rd floor roof, I finally tried to scare them off with a BB gun.  Is the next step "Rat Nip"?

I had a similar problem with the house I bought a few months ago. The blame could be put on the previous owner, who neighbors told me, fed the pigeons. There are a couple of solutions, you can do them yourself or hire a professional (Look under "Bird Control" or "Pest Control" in the yellow pages). – You can put down spikes in strategic locations. – You can put up netting. – You can live trap (OK, the trap catches them alive, but due to – pigeons’ homing instincts you can’t just let them go, so they have   to be killed). http://www.flybye.com/ sells supplies. I went with a local pest control company that put up spikes and netting and tried to live trap. The live trap didn’t work for me; in fact the pigeons had no respect for it as they would walk all over it, but not go in it. It wasn’t cheap to have it done for me: $400 for the spikes and netting (on a 1.5 story house), and $140 for trapping. For a few weeks the spikes and netting only seemed to work a little. A neighbor recommended putting rubber snakes on the roof. I bought a couple of rubber snakes, but I never did get around to putting them on the roof as after a few weeks the pigeon visitation stopped. Another alternative that I thought of was making the roof accessible to cats. I have a few and there are plenty of neighbor cats. I thought of some designs for "cat ladders" but I never had the need to construct one. — Doug Rudoff

Response:

When I moved into this place 3 months ago, I found that there was 3 dozen pigeons in my gables.  Through a very intense early morning patrol of: removing nests, slamming doors, making a presence known, building a board with nail, then putting an owl on the 3rd floor roof, I finally tried to scare them off with a BB gun.  Is the next step "Rat Nip"?

A couple of cat would discourage them, particularly if you don’t overfeed them. Otherwise, cover all entrances with 1" poultry netting (aka chicken wire); if they’re nesting in louvers or something on the outside, cover those as well (the wire will be virtually invisible from a distance). Place a radio up there blasting heavy metal or rap at full volume, if it won’t bother your neighbors. Scatter around a few handfulls of moth balls. I’m at my Wit’s end here.

I’ve always wanted to build a street named "Wit", terminating in a cul-de-sac… Gary — "It’s like complaining if wood has grains in it. Wood does have grains in it, and it is still beautiful."  Apple VP Phil Schiller, trying to explain away cracks in the Apple G4 Cube as being "mold marks".

Response:

: Try a LA Habor trick, : They strung mono-filiment line ( fishing line) across the areas that : the pigeons and seagulls liked to pearch and nest. They can’t see it : and they fly right into it and bounce off and sometimes hit the : ground. They learn quick that they can’t land there. : Cris-cross it like a spider web, as I understant it,  it works very : well. Other solution is a tack strip, with small sharp nails, the : birds can’t stand on it. : I hope this helps, (back to my regular lurk mode) : John

: When I moved into this place 3 months ago, I found that there was 3 dozen : pigeons in my gables.  Through a very intense early morning patrol of: : removing nests, slamming doors, making a presence known, building a board : with nail, then putting an owl on the 3rd floor roof, I finally tried to : scare them off with a BB gun.  Is the next step "Rat Nip"? : : I’m at my Wit’s end here. : : Thanks. These sound like good ways which DON’T involve killing. No need to do that. —

Response:

Question:

What am I doing wrong???? Thanks.

–Fish just the high tide change.   A hour before to a hour after the change in high tide.  Have a beer and relaxe, they probably won’t bite any other time of the day. Sharp Hooks, Pat Holdzit Fishing Products Inc. http://www.holdzit.com Before you buy.

Response:

Hi Derek, As Chris mentioned below, Silvers can get very hard to catch after they have entered the river. If you are still in the tide water of this river I would try to go upstream to the top pool where the fish hold waiting for rain or go downstream to the mouth or closer to the ocean where they are more aggressive. I would try morning and evening and on the outgoing tide? We fish for them every year south of Cordova, Alaska right on the ocean where they are almost like stripers in the surf. We use only floating lines and when it is smooth on top and not too windy, we use Pink Pollywogs on top that are clipped deer hair poppers. If you can wade for them at the mouth of a river, they are way more aggressive. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Help!  I suck at fly fishing for coho.  I have been trying unsuccessfully for about 3 outings so far to catch coho on the fly on the Capilano River, in North Vancouver.  I’ve concentrated on one pool in particular that looks like a fly should work.  Slow-moving, deep pool.  Gravel bank on one side and steep canyon wall on the far side.  Casting both a 14ft fast sink tip and a floating line in all sorts of water conditions, from turbid to crystal clear, and river conditions from unwadable to low and clear. I’ve been trying muddler minnows, mylar body minows, red, yellow and silver needlefish, leeches, mickey finns, you name it.  Been stripping fairly fast, in 8 inch pulls, as I read was the preferred technique. I see the odd coho porpoising on the surface, and guys catching a few using spoons. What am I doing wrong???? Thanks.

Response:

Salmon fishing with a fly is one of those things that you just have to put a lot of time in before you catch one.   Three outings is nothing, I know a fellow who spent three seasons at it before he caught one, then things started to pick up for him.  Fishing for West Coast Salmon and Steel Head with a fly is a difficult, but enjoyable. Ernie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Help!  I suck at fly fishing for coho.  I have been trying unsuccessfully for about 3 outings so far to catch coho on the fly on the Capilano River, in North Vancouver.  I’ve concentrated on one pool in particular that looks like a fly should work.  Slow-moving, deep pool.  Gravel bank on one side and steep canyon wall on the far side.  Casting both a 14ft fast sink tip and a floating line in all sorts of water conditions, from turbid to crystal clear, and river conditions from unwadable to low and clear. I’ve been trying muddler minnows, mylar body minows, red, yellow and silver needlefish, leeches, mickey finns, you name it.  Been stripping fairly fast, in 8 inch pulls, as I read was the preferred technique. I see the odd coho porpoising on the surface, and guys catching a few using spoons. What am I doing wrong???? Thanks.

Response:

Salmon fishing with a fly is one of those things that you just have to put a lot of time in before you catch one.   Three outings is nothing, I know a fellow who spent three seasons at it before he caught one, then things started to pick up for him.  Fishing for West Coast Salmon and Steel Head with a fly is a difficult, but enjoyable. Ernie

the other thing he can try is fishing for the coho out in the saltwater when they are actually feeding… makes a big difference in the aggressiveness of the coho.  out in the salt the coho are super aggressive and they bite well.   but the coho in the rivers definetely seem to turn on and off.  when they are off, they will hit nothing, no matter what.  try off-color water and early morning times, they have worked better than anything else for me. chris

Response:

Help!  I suck at fly fishing for coho.  I have been trying unsuccessfully for about 3 outings so far to catch coho on the fly on the Capilano River, in North Vancouver.  I’ve concentrated on one pool in particular that looks like a fly should work.  Slow-moving, deep pool.  Gravel bank on one side and steep canyon wall on the far side.  Casting both a 14ft fast sink tip and a floating line in all sorts of water conditions, from turbid to crystal clear, and river conditions from unwadable to low and clear. I’ve been trying muddler minnows, mylar body minows, red, yellow and silver needlefish, leeches, mickey finns, you name it.  Been stripping fairly fast, in 8 inch pulls, as I read was the preferred technique. I see the odd coho porpoising on the surface, and guys catching a few using spoons. What am I doing wrong???? Thanks.

Response:

Question:

I cannot find a serial number on this engine but need to know what the proper float setting is. It is a two cylinder engine with single carb. The carb has the plunger type choke set-up, maybe this will help identify it. Any help here will be greatly appreciated. Thanks

Fishing East Central Florida and Flyfishing Pages

Response:

I cannot find a serial number on this engine but need to know what the proper float setting is. It is a two cylinder engine with single carb. The carb has the plunger type choke set-up, maybe this will help identify it. Any help here will be greatly appreciated. Thanks

Without seeing the carb design, my vague, general answer for float settings would be: Float height – Hold carb upside down and make the float parallel with the bowl mounting surface.   Float drop – Low… but not touching the bottom of the bowl.   If it’s some other odd-ball design, or if you are unsure of how to do it, a service manual would come in very handy.   Also remember, that if you do something wrong that causes a lean condition, a rebuilt powerhead costs a lot more than having a shop check the carb out. Mike Seiler

Response:

Question:

bellows writes: actually, the reverse of that is what we should be looking for.  we should work to stop the offshore-mixed stock fisheries and work to create selective harvest methods in terminal fisheries.  you are right though, we cannot have both offshore mix-stock and terminal fisheries at the same time.  the tribes didn’t destroy the resource, and they probably take less columbia river fish than alaska and canada (steelhead excepted).  the problem is the method, gill-nets are plain wrong when you have co-mingled fish stocks, which is basically all the time.

Modify or eliminate the dams, and there would be plenty of wild salmon for everyone. CQ

Response:

I want to expand further on what I discussed in my first post.  I didn’t take  the time to go into detail so I came away sounding like a redneck who doesn’t  feel the tribes should have access to the fish.  They should.  Afterall, they  were fishing for salmon long before the first European stepped foot on the  land in North America.  However, I think there are better solutions out there  then running gill nets around the clock for several weeks at a time.

you are correct, there are options.  the state and feds should be trying to develop and encourage selective fisheries when it comes to commercial fisheries, whether they be treaty or non-treaty. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Salmon/steelhead fishing has become a game of who has the most money in our  state.  I despise  politics because of special interest monies way of buying  influence vs. doing the right thing.  That is why I enjoy getting out on the  water.  It is one of the few acts that normally doesn’t involve much in the  way of politics.  Salmon/steelhead fishing is the exception to this.  If your  resources are endanger, common sense says you do the right thing and shut the  fishing down for a year or two to EVERYBODY.  That way, you get your fish  stocks back up  and the resource is boosted.  Cutting off sportsmen in the  least populated section of the state does nothing but tell us where we really  stand.

in most cases, i would agree with that statement regarding closures, but in the columbia river system will closures restore the stocks?  i believe that signifigant strides must be made towards increasing the survival of downstream and upstream migrants through the dams before real gains will be seen in the upper columbia basin.  it’s not just eastern washington getting the short end of the stick (resource).  where i live, along the strait of juan de fuca, communities are going belly up because salmon seasons have been cut dramatically, while commercial fishermen keep netting. One person mentioned that they didn’t think the tribal fishing accounted for  much of the catch.  If I am not mistaken, the tribes are entitled to 50% of  the commercial catch each year.  I may be mistaken on this but those are the  numbers I have heard.

i said that, and i stand behind it.  with regard to salmon the tribes take less fish than the offshore fisheries in alaska, canada and washington. with steelhead they are the only commercial fishers and catch too many wild fish in their nets (goes back to how much we need selective fisheries that allow the live release of wild fish).  the tribes are entitled to 50% of the fish, but they do not always catch the 50%. the problem with the tribal fisheries is that we can see what they are doing.  we don’t see the millions of fish that get caught off the coast, from alaska to the columbia, and the tribes get a larger share of the blame than they deserve (not that they are blameless). Irregardless of catch percentage, you can’t feel very good about seeing row  after row of nets all the way across the river during the main part of the  run.  You know that any type of fish that swims by is getting caught in the  net.   In closing, when you are dealing with a limited resource that is in much  demand, you can’t make everybody happy.  However, it just seems like the  sportsmen are the ones asked to give up their rights first.

the state had no other option but to close the upper columbia.  they have no control over the main problem, which are the dams, and very little control over tribal netting.  the date for listing was oct. 17th, so the state acted ahead of time.  next year will be the test year as to whether the tribal fishing will be restricted also.  another thing that made the closures automatic was the listing of the upper columbia hatchery fish (which heavily outnumber wild fish) as endangered.  this took away the option of fishing for hatchery fish and releasing wild fish, which has been the case for the seasons precluding this one.  I just bought a  new salmon fly rod blank a week before they closed down ALL of the steelhead  fisheries in my area.  I now have to drive 6 hours one way to use it. That  isn’t going to happen so I am building the rod for my sister in AK instead.  At least there she will get to use it.  At least in this round, I am the loser  while the folks who have the loudest voices still have all their fishing rights.

 it’s time to work for true restoration of wild, naturally spawning salmonids in the columbia system.  it’s time for BPA to put some money into wild, native fish management.  it’s time for other groups with loud voices such as the industries that use the columbia to the detriment of the fish to take some hits to restore the once large runs of salmon and steelhead to this river.  i’m willing to pay more money for electricity to help fund measures that help wild salmon.  i’m willing to accept closures to give the fish a break, but only if i see a real effort to restore the runs, not as an excuse to do nothing.  i would love to see the tribes sue the hell out of the government to make them take the steps to restore wild salmon.

Response:

actually, the reverse of that is what we should be looking for.  we should work to stop the offshore-mixed stock fisheries and work to create selective harvest methods in terminal fisheries.  you are right though, we cannot have both offshore mix-stock and terminal fisheries at the same time.  the tribes didn’t destroy the resource, and they probably take less columbia river fish than alaska and canada (steelhead excepted).  

I think it would be fair to say that Canada would support reduced interceptions of columbia River salmon to the extent you can persuade Alaska from intercepting fish bound for our rivers. I believe some action has been taken to protect Columbia River fish off the West Coast of Vancouver Island though I’m not sure of the numbers and it likely isn’t enough – however interceptions by Alaska are the major problem and have to be addressed. It’s an issue that have very broad implications far beyond the commercial fishery and the Pacific Salmon Treaty. Ralph H remove "(take_this_out)" for email reply.

Response:

I had the good fortune of meeting the Director of Fish & Wildlife, Bern Shanks, last night while he spoke at the Renton Chapter of Puget Sound Anglers. His basic message was this: Unless we make some drastic changes in the way our state is managing our salmon and steelhead, we will no longer be charged with that management resposnibility, the Federal Government will. He said that it appears to those in Olympia that the only parties interested in the outcome of this struggle to save salmon are the commercial fishing interests and Washington tribes. Please read my article and contact a commissioner and your elected representatives in Olympia. There is a crucial vote pending before the F&W Commission that will decide on a Wild Salmonid Policy option that will have significant lasting impacts on our future abilities to fish for and catch salmon and steelhead in this state. My article can be found at http://www.nwfishing.com/dweitl/ww1.html Thanks. — David and B.J. Weitl Poulsbo, Washington Washington Statewide Fishing Reports http://www.nwfishing.com/dweitl/ww1.html

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – David, Thanks for the update.  I know many anglers who are mad as hell at the way this  states salmon and steelhead are managed.  Skip Knowles, publisher of the  Washington Fishing and Hunting News, has been an ongoing advocate who has been  trying to raise everbodys awareness and has done a great job.  In my personal  opinion, the sportsman are just fed up with nobody listening to what we have  to say.  It seems that the commercial and tribal fisherman have all their  attention. A classic example of this is the recent listing of the upriver steelhead as  endangered species.  The tribal and commericial fisherman can net the hell out  of them in the lower Columbia, but once they pass a certain dam and are no  longer of interest to these two parties, they become "endangered."  The only  loser here is the sportsmen. Then, to top it off, some clown wants to open the Hanford reach to a commercial  fishing study two weeks later.  (The same fish that are now considered  endangered here would have been exposed to commercial nets!) Fortunately this  was nixed by Senator Murray. I personally don’t know what else to do.  It seems that special intersts have  outbid the sportsman to the the point that we don’t  have much of a voice  anymore. The solution here is simple:  GET THE TRIBAL NETS OUT OF THE WATER AND CREATE A  NON COMMERCIAL NO FISHING ZONE AROUND THE OUTLETS TO THESE RIVERS.

actually, the reverse of that is what we should be looking for.  we should work to stop the offshore-mixed stock fisheries and work to create selective harvest methods in terminal fisheries.  you are right though, we cannot have both offshore mix-stock and terminal fisheries at the same time.  the tribes didn’t destroy the resource, and they probably take less columbia river fish than alaska and canada (steelhead excepted).  the problem is the method, gill-nets are plain wrong when you have co-mingled fish stocks, which is basically all the time. bern shanks is on our side on this issue.  we must force the commision to follow his lead in protecting the resource, not special interests.

Response:

Question:

        I’m brand new to fly fishing.  I haven’t been fishing at all in over 10 years.  I don’t know why; I used to go a lot when I was younger.  I always had fun.  Anyway, I want to get back into fishing, fly fishing. My father gave me an 8.5 foot Eagle Claw "Champion" Mod. M3ALA (line size 9).  The reel thats on it is kind of a cheap-o.  I’m not sure what size or type line is on it.           What is a good size and type of line for me to start out with?  What is a good type/brand of reel to use?  What is a tippet?  How critical is leader length and weight?  I’ve been out in the back yard playing with it, casting.  How far should I be able to cast?           Any other tip and hints I should know?  I don’t want to go out my first time and look like a total fool.  I’m not saying I’m not, I just don’t want it to show <g. Thanks

Response:

   What is a good size and type of line for me to start out with?  What is a good type/brand of reel to use?  What is a tippet?  How critical is leader length and weight?  I’ve been out in the back yard playing with it, casting.  How far should I be able to cast?  

Hi Bill, I really recommend you check in with your local fly shop or fly fishing club for some expert help, especially with casting.  Just one lesson with a qualified instructor can save you years of frustration trying to learn by your self. You can find your local fly shop in the phone directory and a local club by calling the Federation of Fly Fisher’s at 800-618-0808. Now to answer some of your questions.  Size & Type of Line: The line you need should be balanced to your fly rod – you indicated your rod is a nine weight.  That is the weight you need for that rod, however that weight is a little heavy unless you are fishing in salt water or going after salmon or steelhead Tippet: A tippet is the fine monofilament that is attached to the end of the leader.  You tie the fly on this material. Leader:  In some fishing conditions leader length is the difference between catching fish and not catching fish. As an "all around" leader for fishing free stone streams I purchase a 7 1/2 foot 4x leader and then tie on another 1 1/2 feet of tippet material to bring me to a nine foot leader.  But that is only a starting point.  There are some situations where my leader will on be 4 feet in length and others where it will be close to 20 feet. How far to cast:  That is a tough question.  I feel it’s a good idea to be able to comfortably cast 30 – 50 feet.  That doesn’t mean you have to cast that far to fish, only that you have the skill.  You’ll be less tired at the end of the day if you do not have to continually "push the envelope" of your skills — on the other hand pushing your skill is how you improve. I hope I have not totally confused you.  Good luck. Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

Response:

        I’m brand new to fly fishing.  

Bill,         The best advice I could give a new flyfisher is to get attached to a local fly shop and ask as manay questions as you can …. and remember all the answers.  Take the time to get some casting instruction.  It’ll be the best half hour you can spend.  Also, try to get a copy of "The Curtis Creek Manifesto", it’s a cartoon-type magazine/book that explains all the facets of fly fishing in simple terms that we all can understand.  Just remember, that if you keep fish, only keep what you need and that a fish killed is on that will never be caught again.  Some of us like to "Love ‘em and ‘Leave ‘em!"

Response:

   I’m brand new to fly fishing.  I haven’t been fishing at all in over 10 years.  I don’t know why; I used to go a lot when I was younger.  I always had fun.  Anyway, I want to get back into fishing, fly fishing. My father gave me an 8.5 foot Eagle Claw "Champion" Mod. M3ALA (line size 9).  The reel thats on it is kind of a cheap-o.  I’m not sure what size or type line is on it.      What is a good size and type of line for me to start out with?  What is a good type/brand of reel to use?  What is a tippet?  How critical is leader length and weight?  I’ve been out in the back yard playing with it, casting.  How far should I be able to cast?      Any other tip and hints I should know?  I don’t want to go out my first time and look like a total fool.  I’m not saying I’m not, I just don’t want it to show <g. Thanks

What are you fishing for?  A 9-wt. line is quite heavy — to heavy for bass/bluegills/trout, more appropriate for light salt water.  You must use a line that fits your rod though.  Too light and you have to get a _lot_ of line out to cast properly (not recommended for a beginner) and a heavy line will overload your rod.  I would recommend a moderately priced weight-forward line (Cortland 333 or something in that price range) and a moderately priced, simple reel (Pflueger Medalist is the old standard).  Too cheap and you get junk.  For now, you present reel may be okay, but get a new line.  If possible, cast a test line on your rod; it’s possible that a 9-wt. isn’t best. A leader delivers your fly to the fish.  The length depends on the water and the fish, but it’s best to use the shortest one you can get away with.  Again, what kind of fish are you afetr in what conditions? The tippet is the very last part of the leader, and often replaced with a new section.  It must match your fly so that it behaves naturally, and sometime you just have to experiment to get a good match. Casting distance depends again on the fish and conditions.  Distance is nowhere near as important as control; it’s totally irrelevant to the fish!  You want to put the fly in the right position with the shortest practical cast, so you can 1) control the fly and 2) hook the fish. Hope this gets you started.  There should be a tackle shop near you which could advise you about what’s best for your area. Jim Benenson Los Alamos, NM "To save your rivers, save your mountains" Emperor Yu of China, circa 1600 BC

Response:

Question:

Would like to know some effective patterns for Northern Pike.  Will be fishing Gods Lake in Manatoba Canada in mid August.

Response:

There is an excellent book on the subject that also discusses multiple patterns.  "PIKE on the FLY" by Barry Reynolds and John Berryman.  If your local fly shop doesn’t carry it Wilderness Adventures Sporting Books does carry them at $16.00.  1-800-925-3339 or P.O. Box 1410, Bozeman, M.T. 59771, that is where I got Mine.  My favorite pattern is Bunny Bug a 3/0 Mustad #34007 with a 25-pound hard mono weed guard, Black thread, tail-4" long black rabbit strip topped with a few strands of black Krystal Flash, butt-White or Yellow marabou, body-Black rabbit strip 6" long palmered to 1/4 " of the eye.  Decievers in Red/White or Black/White are also great.  I use Orvis wire leaders on the above.   The book shop above also has an  great video by Berry Reynolds that makes you want to catch a plane up to Northern Sask!  Good Luck

Response:

Jason Chartrand here, fly-fishing for pike is the BEST (I wish to say only, but it isn’t) way to go. Some really fun flies to try are anything that floats (fur mice, poppers, etc . . . ).  Actually seeing the hit is really exciting.  But honestly, I don’t get much success this way. Nearly any concoction that you can dream up could work, but my favorite is tied like this:         1/0 (2/0) short shank salt water hook         gold tinsel ribbing, or silver         Krystal flash: yellow, green, orange, mixed together, tied in at the         head in buck tail fashion.         Heavy black thread This sounds too simple, but it works great!!  

Response:

: Would like to know some effective patterns for Northern Pike.  

Try a RoadKill Streamer!  Thread a regular-length-hook  (of suitable size) several times through the rear end of a  4" – 8" strip of fox or rabbit fur. Then tie on a 20lb test  shock tippet, to the eye of the hook. Make an overhand knot  (with the shock tippet) around the front end of the fur,  and then make a perfection loop in the shock tippet. Put split  shot on the tippet, at the front end of the fly. That’s it,  although you can knot some Flashabou or whatever in the  overhand knot, as you make it. Other variations include  a second hook at the front, which allows lashing the  front end of the fur (with fly tying thread) to the front hook.  Smaller versions of this fly make good brown trout flies  during fall spawning. Friends of mine have used RoadKills with  good success for Pike and Smallmouth bass in Quebec.     —

Response: