Question:

Anyone ever read the Randall Kaufmann book  "Lake Fishing with a Fly" or the Deke Meyer book "Float Tube Fly Fishing"?  What do you think?  Are they useful books?

Response:

I will state right off the bat that I am biased by having Randall as a close and valued friend. Lake Fishing with a fly is an excellent book, in my opinion, as it peels away some of the layers of mystery many anglers have concerning "Stillwater". (Misnomer of a term, but anyway) Many anglers are intimidated by a seemingly large flat expanse of water in front of them and the idea of "reading’ water is often the biggest challenge.. simply just knowing where to start the biggest challenge. As a result most just sort of give up and flail away at the nearest section of lake shore awaiting a hungry fish. Lake Fishing with a fly provides invaluable information that breaks down lakes and explains them so we can understand them in a way akin to a stream or river. There is a wealth of information and closely followed the book will help any angler be more successful in catching trout in lakes. I highly recommend it. The Mike Stidham illustrations are outstanding too. Just my thoughts, others may disagree. I haven’t read Deke Meyers Book. Clark

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone ever read the Randall Kaufmann book  "Lake Fishing with a Fly" or the Deke Meyer book "Float Tube Fly Fishing"?  What do you think?  Are they useful books?

Response:

Anyone ever read the Randall Kaufmann book  "Lake Fishing with a Fly" or the Deke Meyer book "Float Tube Fly Fishing"?  What do you think?  Are they useful books?

Greetings Rob:   I’ve read Kaufmann’s _Lake Fishing with a Fly_, and I think it’s a pretty good read.  Good basic information, and written in a style I enjoy.  I also like Kaufmann’s fly tying books, FWIW. ‘Sorry, I’m not familiar with the other book.   Cheers, and happy reading.  -Mark

Response:

I have read them both. They are both good books, but I think serve different niches. Just a point, "Lake Fishing With A Fly" was written by Ron Cordes and Randall Kaufmann. The Deke Meyer book has some good informaiton on alpine fishing. It covers a lot of species I never fish for, such as bass and bluegill (we don’t have ‘em up here), so it use is somewhat limited for me. Also, it has a pretty limited section on flies. It does have some good tips on useing float tubes. The Cordes and Kaufmann boolk has more information about trout. Very limited informaiton on float tubes, but good general infomation on fishing techniques. It has some color plates, a good discussion of trout food, etc. If trout is what you are after, this would be the better book. My personal preference for a stillwater fishing book is Morris and Chan on Fly Fishing Trout Lakes. Tjhis has very good information, the infomation is organized well, and the book has very nice color photos. It has very good inforamtion on water craft, and lots of nice fly patterns. This book has become my personal favorite for lake fishing. Tim Lysyk

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone ever read the Randall Kaufmann book  "Lake Fishing with a Fly" or the Deke Meyer book "Float Tube Fly Fishing"?  What do you think?  Are they useful books?

Response:

If you can find a copy in your area "The Ghillie" has become the bible of still water trouting in British Columbia. It has excellent sections on fishing all of the still water hatches. Al.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have read them both. They are both good books, but I think serve different niches. Just a point, "Lake Fishing With A Fly" was written by Ron Cordes and Randall Kaufmann. The Deke Meyer book has some good informaiton on alpine fishing. It covers a lot of species I never fish for, such as bass and bluegill (we don’t have ‘em up here), so it use is somewhat limited for me. Also, it has a pretty limited section on flies. It does have some good tips on useing float tubes. The Cordes and Kaufmann boolk has more information about trout. Very limited informaiton on float tubes, but good general infomation on fishing techniques. It has some color plates, a good discussion of trout food, etc. If trout is what you are after, this would be the better book. My personal preference for a stillwater fishing book is Morris and Chan on Fly Fishing Trout Lakes. Tjhis has very good information, the infomation is organized well, and the book has very nice color photos. It has very good inforamtion on water craft, and lots of nice fly patterns. This book has become my personal favorite for lake fishing. Tim Lysyk Anyone ever read the Randall Kaufmann book  "Lake Fishing with a Fly" or the Deke Meyer book "Float Tube Fly Fishing"?  What do you think?  Are they useful books?

Response:

Question:

There’s only one answer here: www.troutflies.com ROFF’s own Harry Mason sets a standard which few (if any) flytying sites can ever meet. Herman Anyone have any good sites that describe tying specific flies? I’ve found several sites with good recipes but need a more "walk through" approach. The location of various materials is pretty hard to determine with some flies (Muddlers are my own specific mystery). Thanks Keith

–         Cheers, Herman         Herman Nijland         Daytime webmaster         Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

Mike Connor "used" to have a very decent flytying site,  but it seems to have moved,  or otherwise become defunct,  as my browsers reliably give me the German version of "not here mate!".  I personally would like to see MC’s site again, and would wholeheartedly recommend  it whenever it should appear again (as being a good flyfishing info. site) :  what’s the score Mike? Hoping to browse again  (most particularly your tying of the S&P!) Mike. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone have any good sites that describe tying specific flies? I’ve found several sites with good recipes but need a more "walk through" approach. The location of various materials is pretty hard to determine with some flies (Muddlers are my own specific mystery). Thanks Keith

Response:

Anyone have any good sites that describe tying specific flies? I’ve found several sites with good recipes but need a more "walk through" approach. The location of various materials is pretty hard to determine with some flies (Muddlers are my own specific mystery). Thanks Keith

Response:

http://www.virtualflybox.com/ http://www.killroys.com/ http://www.jacksonholenet.com/guyturck/ http://tie-1-on.net/ http://www.troutflies.com/new_index/_store_index.htm http://www.flyanglersonline.com/ http://www.btsflyfishing.com/ http://globalflyfisher.com/index.html http://nottingham-flydressers.4t.com/ http://www.umpqua.com/ http://www.magiclink.com/web/wesn/index.html Hope that helps some. Warren

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone have any good sites that describe tying specific flies? I’ve found several sites with good recipes but need a more "walk through" approach. The location of various materials is pretty hard to determine with some flies (Muddlers are my own specific mystery). Thanks Keith

Response:

Keith, My vote goes to           flyanglersonline.com Great step by step tutorials for both a beginners and  intermediate tying "class", plus a "fly of the week". – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – http://www.virtualflybox.com/ http://www.killroys.com/ http://www.jacksonholenet.com/guyturck/ http://tie-1-on.net/ http://www.troutflies.com/new_index/_store_index.htm http://www.flyanglersonline.com/ http://www.btsflyfishing.com/ http://globalflyfisher.com/index.html http://nottingham-flydressers.4t.com/ http://www.umpqua.com/ http://www.magiclink.com/web/wesn/index.html Hope that helps some. Warren Anyone have any good sites that describe tying specific flies? I’ve found several sites with good recipes but need a more "walk through" approach. The location of various materials is pretty hard to determine with some flies (Muddlers are my own specific mystery). Thanks Keith

Response:

Question:

I am the north west end of town (Champions Forest). Is there any fishing within 20 mile distance. Thank you.

Response:

I am the north west end of town (Champions Forest). Is there any fishing within 20 mile distance.

You really picked the wrong part of the planet for fly fishing local waters. That said, technically within youi 20 mile radius: Buffalo Bayou, Cypress Creek, Spring Creek, Lake Woodlands. The far west end of Lake Houston and the WF San Jacinto River [canoeable] Bane Park has a perch pond that I occassionally go to harrass sunfish. There is an artificial set of ponds near the Galleria at Richmond/Post Oak. I haven’t not fished White Oak Bayou much inside the loop, but did hookup with a fairly decent 24" carp once in the concrete channel above some riprap.   Accessing White Oak is probably best accomplished by Bicycle. That said, I’m moving to Conroe!     Nyah!

Response:

Question:

There are a lot of flies we need for the Western Conclave.  I’m trying to tie my own.  I have to buy all sorts of different stuff just to tie a few flies of each pattern. Then an idea came to me.  Why doesn’t each person concentrate on one or two patterns and trade flies with other at the Conclave.  This will ad something to the conclave, because we will be fishing with the flies that our friends tied. I can tie a couple like the Montana Stone.  I tie other flies, but I want to trade my best fly that I can tie.  That’s it.  There are some others that I think are okay. I will tie a dozen Montana Stone for anyone that wants to trade. Here’s the complete list of flies that have been suggested by others here on ROFF and suggested web-sites for the area.  I will not have ever fly represented in my fly box.  There are a lot of them.  However, I would like to have as many as I can.  I know I will buy a lot, but it would be nice to be fishing with a fly the other ROFFians tied.  So here’s the list: Prince Nymphs, size 4-10 Montana Stone, size 6-10 Adams, size 10-20 Moose-Mane Adam, size 8-16 Adams, size 10-20 Grey Wulff, size 8-14 Grizzly Wulff, size 8-14 Royal Wulff, size 8-14 White Wulff, size 6-16 Ausable Wulff, size 6-16 Wolly Buggers, size 2-12 Wolly Worm, size 2-12 Joe’s Hopper, size 6-14 Dave’s Cricket, size 6-12 Muddler Minnows, size 2-14 Leach, size 4-8 Light Hendrickson, size 12-18 Dark Hendrickson, size 12-18 Blue Dun, dry size 12-18 Blue Dun, wet size 10-16 BWO, size 12-20 Light Cahill, size 10-16 Rubber Legs Henry’s Fork Hopper, size 8-12 Jacklin’s Hopper, size 8-12 Parachute Hopper, size 8-14 Henry’s Fork Cricket, size 6-16 Dave’s Hopper, size 4-12 Gold Ribbed Hare’s Ear, size 8-16 Elk Hair Caddis (various body colors) also known as PM Caddis Montana Stone Nymph, size 14-18 Golden Stone, size 12-14 Western Bee, size 12-14 Western Coachman, size 12-14 Dragon Fly Dragon Fly Nymphs Midge Blue Dun, size 16-24 Trudes Green Caddis Emergers Colorado Caddis Nymphs Humpies of various colors, size 12-16 Brown Hackle Peacock, size 12-18 March browns PT Hymphs Stimulators Caddis:         Long Horn Sedge         Microcaddis         Green Sedge         Spotted Sedge (2 Species)         Little Sister Sedge         Black Dancer Stoneflies:         Giant Salmonfly         Golden Stone         Yellow Sally Mayflies:         Pale Morning Dun         Western Green Drake         Brown Drake         Grey Drake         Small Western Drake (flav)         Callibaetis — Vern My ROFF page: http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/ResortRd/v_deloy/ROFFintro.html Before you buy.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There are a lot of flies we need for the Western Conclave.  I’m trying to tie my own.  I have to buy all sorts of different stuff just to tie a few flies of each pattern. Then an idea came to me.  Why doesn’t each person concentrate on one or two patterns and trade flies with other at the Conclave.  This will ad something to the conclave, because we will be fishing with the flies that our friends tied. I can tie a couple like the Montana Stone.  I tie other flies, but I want to trade my best fly that I can tie.  That’s it.  There are some others that I think are okay. I will tie a dozen Montana Stone for anyone that wants to trade. Here’s the complete list of flies that have been suggested by others here on ROFF and suggested web-sites for the area.  I will not have ever fly represented in my fly box.  There are a lot of them.  However, I would like to have as many as I can.  I know I will buy a lot, but it would be nice to be fishing with a fly the other ROFFians tied.  So here’s the list: Prince Nymphs, size 4-10 Montana Stone, size 6-10 Adams, size 10-20 Moose-Mane Adam, size 8-16 Adams, size 10-20 Grey Wulff, size 8-14 Grizzly Wulff, size 8-14 Royal Wulff, size 8-14 White Wulff, size 6-16 Ausable Wulff, size 6-16 Wolly Buggers, size 2-12 Wolly Worm, size 2-12 Joe’s Hopper, size 6-14 Dave’s Cricket, size 6-12 Muddler Minnows, size 2-14 Leach, size 4-8 Light Hendrickson, size 12-18 Dark Hendrickson, size 12-18 Blue Dun, dry size 12-18 Blue Dun, wet size 10-16 BWO, size 12-20 Light Cahill, size 10-16 Rubber Legs Henry’s Fork Hopper, size 8-12 Jacklin’s Hopper, size 8-12 Parachute Hopper, size 8-14 Henry’s Fork Cricket, size 6-16 Dave’s Hopper, size 4-12 Gold Ribbed Hare’s Ear, size 8-16 Elk Hair Caddis (various body colors) also known as PM Caddis Montana Stone Nymph, size 14-18 Golden Stone, size 12-14 Western Bee, size 12-14 Western Coachman, size 12-14 Dragon Fly Dragon Fly Nymphs Midge Blue Dun, size 16-24 Trudes Green Caddis Emergers Colorado Caddis Nymphs Humpies of various colors, size 12-16 Brown Hackle Peacock, size 12-18 March browns PT Hymphs Stimulators Caddis:         Long Horn Sedge         Microcaddis         Green Sedge         Spotted Sedge (2 Species)         Little Sister Sedge         Black Dancer Stoneflies:         Giant Salmonfly         Golden Stone         Yellow Sally Mayflies:         Pale Morning Dun         Western Green Drake         Brown Drake         Grey Drake         Small Western Drake (flav)         Callibaetis — Vern My ROFF page: http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/ResortRd/v_deloy/ROFFintro.html Before you buy.

May I suggest you regard flies at and below #18’s also Vern? — Mr.G http://www.gink.com/  Updates http://www.gink.com/chat Flyfishing Conversations 6:00 PM PST till after midnight.

Response:

Vern Exactly. I carry my tying stuff, and can tie about a dozen fishables an hour sober, about half that after one beer. Buy fancy stuff in the shops and  bum some fishables from me, whatever you like. Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Shoot man, just bring what ya got and bum the rest. Not counting the price of the hooks, I doubt if I have a couple of cents in any given fly.

Response:

Thanks. I’m going to bring as many flies as I can, some to trade, and bring extra cash for special flies.  I think I will also bring some of my fly tying stuff.  However, I need to get all my camping and fishing stuff into the car as well as anything else I want to bring. I also have a co-worker that wants to come.  I need to get all his camping and fishing stuff into the car.  The car will be very tight inside. I will try to talk my friend into bringing his truck.  There’s only one problem with that, I can’t drive his truck due to it not being altered for little people.  We were going to drive straight through and switch driving responsibilities.  If we take my car, he can always push the seat back but space will be limited. — Vern My ROFF page: http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/ResortRd/v_deloy/ROFFintro.html Vern Exactly. I carry my tying stuff, and can tie about a dozen fishables an hour sober, about half that after one beer. Buy fancy stuff in the shops and  bum some fishables from me, whatever you like. Dave Shoot man, just bring what ya got and bum the rest. Not counting the price of the hooks, I doubt if I have a couple of cents in any given fly.

Before you buy.

Response:

[snipped] BTW, what are some good patterns/sizes for whitefish?

Anything that works for the trout will work for the whitefish…

Response:

Shoot man, just bring what ya got and bum the rest. Not counting the price of the hooks, I doubt if I have a couple of cents in any given fly.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s not just the time but the supplies.  Different types of flies require different types of hair, feathers, etc., etc.  And then it’s the issue of space when camping. —

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s not just the time but the supplies.  Different types of flies require different types of hair, feathers, etc., etc.  And then it’s the issue of space when camping. — Vern My ROFF page: http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/ResortRd/v_deloy/ROFFintro.html Sorry about the blank I just fired off to this thread, wrong button. Vern, Why not set yourself up with a decent tying travel kit and tie what really working when you get there. Thats how I normally travel, and I seldom find myself lacking whatever bug is hot. It may be tough to find the time to tie in Ennis, I’d think the evenings will be filled with "social" activities. Does anybody know if the area waters get a little slow in the midafternoon? Before you buy.

alright to bring your fly tying gear with you.  On site fly tying instructions are free, even though we ordinarily charge legal fee rates of $175 an hour, we can take it out in trade with those N.C. legal beagles? I cannot begin to express the fly tying fun that awaits the serious fly tiers of Roff.  This Western Conclave is just the beginning of a great adventure!   — Mr.G http://www.gink.com/  Updates http://www.gink.com/chat Flyfishing Conversations 6:00 PM PST till after midnight.

Response:

Gee, thanks for the list, Vern. I’m planning to buy a half-dozen of each pattern and size over the counter from Blue Ribbon Flies in West Yellowstone.

Heresey!!!!  Well, if you, make sure that you don’t get princes in size 4-10, more like 10-16. Of course I have never fished with a size 4 prince and may just not know what I am talking about.  Perhaps you out of staters know something that we don’t up here Warren Western Conclave Guru For info: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/sp_ROFF_people/wclave/wclave.html

Response:

… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There are a lot of flies we need for the Western Conclave.  I’m trying to tie my own.  I have to buy all sorts of different stuff just to tie a few flies of each pattern. Then an idea came to me.  Why doesn’t each person concentrate on one or two patterns and trade flies with other at the Conclave.  This will ad something to the conclave, because we will be fishing with the flies that our friends tied. I can tie a couple like the Montana Stone.  I tie other flies, but I want to trade my best fly that I can tie.  That’s it.  There are some others that I think are okay. I will tie a dozen Montana Stone for anyone that wants to trade. Here’s the complete list of flies that have been suggested by others here on ROFF and suggested web-sites for the area.  I will not have ever fly represented in my fly box.  There are a lot of them.  However, I would like to have as many as I can.  I know I will buy a lot, but it would be nice to be fishing with a fly the other ROFFians tied.  So here’s the list: Prince Nymphs, size 4-10 Montana Stone, size 6-10 Adams, size 10-20 Moose-Mane Adam, size 8-16 Adams, size 10-20 Grey Wulff, size 8-14 Grizzly Wulff, size 8-14 Royal Wulff, size 8-14 White Wulff, size 6-16 Ausable Wulff, size 6-16 Wolly Buggers, size 2-12 Wolly Worm, size 2-12 Joe’s Hopper, size 6-14 Dave’s Cricket, size 6-12 Muddler Minnows, size 2-14 Leach, size 4-8 Light Hendrickson, size 12-18 Dark Hendrickson, size 12-18 Blue Dun, dry size 12-18 Blue Dun, wet size 10-16 BWO, size 12-20 Light Cahill, size 10-16 Rubber Legs Henry’s Fork Hopper, size 8-12 Jacklin’s Hopper, size 8-12 Parachute Hopper, size 8-14 Henry’s Fork Cricket, size 6-16 Dave’s Hopper, size 4-12 Gold Ribbed Hare’s Ear, size 8-16 Elk Hair Caddis (various body colors) also known as PM Caddis Montana Stone Nymph, size 14-18 Golden Stone, size 12-14 Western Bee, size 12-14 Western Coachman, size 12-14 Dragon Fly Dragon Fly Nymphs Midge Blue Dun, size 16-24 Trudes Green Caddis Emergers Colorado Caddis Nymphs Humpies of various colors, size 12-16 Brown Hackle Peacock, size 12-18 March browns PT Hymphs Stimulators Caddis: Long Horn Sedge Microcaddis Green Sedge Spotted Sedge (2 Species) Little Sister Sedge Black Dancer Stoneflies: Giant Salmonfly Golden Stone Yellow Sally Mayflies: Pale Morning Dun Western Green Drake Brown Drake Grey Drake Small Western Drake (flav) Callibaetis — Vern My ROFF page: http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/ResortRd/v_deloy/ROFFintro.html Before you buy.

Response:

Sorry about the blank I just fired off to this thread, wrong button. Vern, Why not set yourself up with a decent tying travel kit and tie what really working when you get there. Thats how I normally travel, and I seldom find myself lacking whatever bug is hot. It may be tough to find the time to tie in Ennis, I’d think the evenings will be filled with "social" activities. Does anybody know if the area waters get a little slow in the midafternoon?

Response:

Vern, Why not set yourself up with a decent tying travel kit and tie what really working when you get there.

I know Vern doesn’t drink, but I should point out that if the Western Clave is anything like the Eastern Claves, people will much too busy tying one on to have the time (or the hand-eye coordination) to tie one on. <g –Steve

Response:

It’s not just the time but the supplies.  Different types of flies require different types of hair, feathers, etc., etc.  And then it’s the issue of space when camping. — Vern My ROFF page: http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/ResortRd/v_deloy/ROFFintro.html Sorry about the blank I just fired off to this thread, wrong button. Vern, Why not set yourself up with a decent tying travel kit and tie what really working when you get there. Thats how I normally travel, and I seldom find myself lacking whatever bug is hot. It may be tough to find the time to tie in Ennis, I’d think the evenings will be filled with "social" activities. Does anybody know if the area waters get a little slow in the midafternoon?

Before you buy.

Response:

Vern, Why not set yourself up with a decent tying travel kit and tie what really working when you get there. I know Vern doesn’t drink, but I should point out that if the Western Clave is anything like the Eastern Claves, people will much too busy tying one on to have the time (or the hand-eye coordination) to tie one on. <g –Steve

______-  beans? — Mr.G http://www.gink.com/  Updates http://www.gink.com/chat Flyfishing Conversations 6:00 PM PST till after midnight.

Response:

Vern, Why not set yourself up with a decent tying travel kit and tie what really working when you get there. Thats how I normally travel, and I seldom find myself lacking whatever bug is hot. It may be tough to find the time to tie in Ennis, I’d think the evenings will be filled with "social" activities. Does anybody know if the area waters get a little slow in the midafternoon?

I’ll be bringing a travel kit, but more for fun than necessity. Most of my flies are general-type patterns that work well just about everywhere I’ve fished for trout, and I’ll be bringing plenty of extras. If there is a particular fly that is working especially well once I get there, I’ll just buy ‘em locally, or barter with other roffians; maybe even tie a few if they’re simple enough. BTW, what are some good patterns/sizes for whitefish? — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyo Before you buy.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here’s the complete list of flies that have been suggested by others here on ROFF and suggested web-sites for the area.  I will not have ever fly represented in my fly box.  There are a lot of them.  However, I would like to have as many as I can.  I know I will buy a lot, but it would be nice to be fishing with a fly the other ROFFians tied.  So here’s the list: Prince Nymphs, size 4-10 Montana Stone, size 6-10 Adams, size 10-20 Moose-Mane Adam, size 8-16 Adams, size 10-20 Grey Wulff, size 8-14 Grizzly Wulff, size 8-14 Royal Wulff, size 8-14 White Wulff, size 6-16 Ausable Wulff, size 6-16 Wolly Buggers, size 2-12 Wolly Worm, size 2-12 Joe’s Hopper, size 6-14 Dave’s Cricket, size 6-12 Muddler Minnows, size 2-14 Leach, size 4-8 Light Hendrickson, size 12-18 Dark Hendrickson, size 12-18 Blue Dun, dry size 12-18 Blue Dun, wet size 10-16 BWO, size 12-20 Light Cahill, size 10-16 Rubber Legs Henry’s Fork Hopper, size 8-12 Jacklin’s Hopper, size 8-12 Parachute Hopper, size 8-14 Henry’s Fork Cricket, size 6-16 Dave’s Hopper, size 4-12 Gold Ribbed Hare’s Ear, size 8-16 Elk Hair Caddis (various body colors) also known as PM Caddis Montana Stone Nymph, size 14-18 Golden Stone, size 12-14 Western Bee, size 12-14 Western Coachman, size 12-14 Dragon Fly Dragon Fly Nymphs Midge Blue Dun, size 16-24 Trudes Green Caddis Emergers Colorado Caddis Nymphs Humpies of various colors, size 12-16 Brown Hackle Peacock, size 12-18 March browns PT Hymphs Stimulators Caddis:         Long Horn Sedge         Microcaddis         Green Sedge         Spotted Sedge (2 Species)         Little Sister Sedge         Black Dancer Stoneflies:         Giant Salmonfly         Golden Stone         Yellow Sally Mayflies:         Pale Morning Dun         Western Green Drake         Brown Drake         Grey Drake         Small Western Drake (flav)         Callibaetis

Gee, thanks for the list, Vern. I’m planning to buy a half-dozen of each pattern and size over the counter from Blue Ribbon Flies in West Yellowstone. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Question:

Yes and no. ) Frank (it ain’t me in Elkhart) Church – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The good Senator and I were not related and didn’t share the same politics either. Of course that’s JUST what we could expect you to say under the circumstances! Got any ID bub?  Would you agree to a DNA analysis?    

Response:

This post was posted to a UK fishing group.  I thought it might interest some of you.  I am sure the original posters will not mind me copying it, as I have corresponded with them both in the past. TL MC I realize this is a bit off-topic, but my daughter saw this and asked me to ask ‘the nice British fisherman’ about it. The Canadian News has picked up a story about a journalist who was literally branded by the "ALF" (Animal Liberation Front?) . Is this true? Are these the same nutters who attack fisherman and throw bricks at their floats, smash their rods, etc? If they are, it’s very chilling. It’s one thing to disagree. Another to actually take hot iron to a man’s back for disagreeing.

Peter, Sadly it’s true The journalist in question had written, exposing some of the more extremist members of the ALF.  He was kidnapped and held in fear of his life.  Hooded with a hesian sack, he expected execution.  When he felt the pain, and smelled the burning flesh, he realised he had been branded.  A.L.-F across his back in very large letters.  I guess that the perpetuators felt that this was only a small payback for the pain and suffering caused daily to animals in laboratories etc.  Sick, sick, sick and twisted people The extremists in the Animals Rights and Anti-angling circles tend to be the same small group of people, surrounded both by harmless nutters and well-meaning (we would think misguided) people.

Response:

Anbody wishing to see the original article: Click on the following link and then ‘Britain’: http://www.the-times.co.uk/news/pages/Times/frontpage.html?999 The article is about a quarter of the way down the page. TL MC

Response:

This post was posted to a UK fishing group.  I thought it might interest some of you.  I am sure the original posters will not mind me copying it, as I have corresponded with them both in the past. TL MC

ALF is a terrorist group, no debate about it.  I find if utterly shocking that these people seem to think that animals are equal or more important than humans.  I can’t imagine where these people get their convictions, but they can’t possibly be healthy, IMO. — Levi Always do sober what you said you’d do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut. –Ernest Hemingway

Response:

ALF is a terrorist group, no debate about it.  I find if utterly shocking that these people seem to think that animals are equal or more important than humans.  I can’t imagine where these people get their convictions, but they can’t possibly be healthy, IMO.

You don’t suppose that they take into account man’s inhumanity to man on this planet and have decided animals act better towards each other?  You know the old saying, "The more I know about people the more I love my cat/dog/sheep/etc etc."  That same feeling creeps up on me more and more often these days. Frank (stirring the pot in Elkhart) Church

Response:

You don’t suppose that they take into account man’s inhumanity to man on this planet and have decided animals act better towards each other?  You know the old saying, "The more I know about people the more I love my cat/dog/sheep/etc etc."  That same feeling creeps up on me more and more often these days. Frank (stirring the pot in Elkhart) Church

Your ommission of Louie LaPlac’s goat, affectionately known as Mildred, will be noted as the insult it is. Mark Faulkner

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Louie, please relay my apologies to Mildred as I would never intentionally insult someone who is obviously adored by you.  Sorry. (think that’ll do it Mark?) Frank (goatbreath) Church – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You don’t suppose that they take into account man’s inhumanity to man on this planet and have decided animals act better towards each other?  You know the old saying, "The more I know about people the more I love my cat/dog/sheep/etc etc."  That same feeling creeps up on me more and more often these days. Frank (stirring the pot in Elkhart) Church Your ommission of Louie LaPlac’s goat, affectionately known as Mildred, will be noted as the insult it is. Mark Faulkner

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Don’t some animals eat their young?  I am also waiting for some Animal Rights Activist to show me a hospital built by animals. Weren’t you a Senator from Idaho before you died? DP – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ALF is a terrorist group, no debate about it.  I find if utterly shocking that these people seem to think that animals are equal or more important than humans.  I can’t imagine where these people get their convictions, but they can’t possibly be healthy, IMO. You don’t suppose that they take into account man’s inhumanity to man on this planet and have decided animals act better towards each other?  You know the old saying, "The more I know about people the more I love my cat/dog/sheep/etc etc."  That same feeling creeps up on me more and more often these days. Frank (stirring the pot in Elkhart) Church

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You don’t suppose that they take into account man’s inhumanity to man on this planet and have decided animals act better towards each other?  You know the old saying, "The more I know about people the more I love my cat/dog/sheep/etc etc. That same feeling creeps up on me more and more often these days.

I guess the fact that many animals routinely kill and eat other animals for sustenance, (sometimes including the young of their own species), doesn’t enter into the equation. George "turning up the fire a notch" Adams

Response:

Don’t some animals eat their young?

Yes, some animals do eat their young, sows can lay on their piglets and suffocate most or all of them, a tomcat will kill every kitten in the litter if he can whup mama cat first, and on and on, but that’s nature’s way, in no way can it be equated with with mans actions.  Screw PETA, ALF and all the rest of these wackos. Weren’t you a Senator from Idaho before you died?

I see you remember Senator Frank Church of Idaho.  Evidently he wasn’t too popular in some quarters in Idaho.  One time I stopped for gas in a small town there, gave the guy my credit card, whereupon after seeing the name on the card, gave me a squinty-eyed look and asked, "are you related to Senator Frank Church?"  I’m not, and said so, but might have denied it in any case as he looked ready to dump sugar in my gas tank or some other dastardly deed.  The good Senator and I were not related and didn’t share the same politics either.

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Absolutely not George, as I stated in an earlier post, equating the animal kingdom which operates on inborn instinct to do what is necessary to survive, to "man" is bogus.  Ascribing human traits to animals is a mistake. So if a tomcat kills the litter of kittens he finds, we are horrified.  But he does that for a reason…..he is "offing" future competition for breeding the available female cats.  But if humans do that, it is mass murder.  The two don’t equate at any level.  My favorite pussy cat, who purrs on my lap and nuzzles me, and makes me feel all warm and fuzzy, will sneak out in the yard and try to kill a bird….she is living in two worlds, ours and hers. If I catch her eating a bird do I beat the shit out of her…no way.  I recognize she still has that hunter instinct of her breed.  We, on the other hand, are supposed to be "civilized," whatever the hell that means in this day and age. Frank (trying to piss on George’s fire) Church

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You don’t suppose that they take into account man’s inhumanity to man on this planet and have decided animals act better towards each other?  You know the old saying, "The more I know about people the more I love my cat/dog/sheep/etc etc. That same feeling creeps up on me more and more often these days. I guess the fact that many animals routinely kill and eat other animals for sustenance, (sometimes including the young of their own species), doesn’t enter into the equation. George "turning up the fire a notch" Adams

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Ascribing human traits to animals is a mistake.

Frank, I guess I misunderstood your your post, because I thought that was exactly what you were doing. (i.e. "good" animals vs. "bad" humans) Animals are niether good nor bad…..they are just animals. A rattlesnake can kill you, and a dog can be your faithful companion for many years, but is the dog "better" than the rattlesnake? I don’t think so….they are what they are. Humans are subject to many failings, and because we have free will we can be held accountable for our actions, and judged by our peers to be good or bad. As more people populate the earth, we will see more of the bad, especially since the media will show it to us at every opportunity.  On the whole, are animals "better" than humans? I say no. George Adams

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I see you remember Senator Frank Church of Idaho.  Evidently he wasn’t too popular in some quarters in Idaho.  One time I stopped for gas in a small town there, gave the guy my credit card, whereupon after seeing the name on the card, gave me a squinty-eyed look and asked, "are you related to Senator Frank Church?"  I’m not, and said so, but might have denied it in any case as he looked ready to dump sugar in my gas tank or some other dastardly deed.  The good Senator and I were not related and didn’t share the same politics either.

Sen. Frank Church was one of the all-time great national figures. He did more for conservation anyone else in politics I can think of, with the possible exception of Teddy Rooseveldt. The Frank Church Wilderness in Idaho is named after him. It’s spectacular, enclosing the finest wilderness river in the lower 48 — the Middle Fork of the Salmon. I’m just sickened by the cast of disreputable characters that have taken over Idaho politics at the national level. I miss you, Frank, and I miss Sen.Chafee of Rhode Island, a Republican who wasn’t afraid to stand up for the public interest. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

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You’re right of course, and Sen. Church should have been recognized with having a wilderness area named in his honor, at the least.  I didn’t mean to denigrate him, and hope you didn’t take it that way.  

Of course I didn’t, Frank. I’m sorry to have implied that. The FCWA is some spectacular country that I’d love to see up close and personal, like say, astride a horse on a pack-in flyfishing trip.

What you have to do is to take a week-long raft trip down the Middle Fork. There are other ways to see this country, but a raft (or drift boat) trip is the best. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I see you remember Senator Frank Church of Idaho.  Evidently he wasn’t too popular in some quarters in Idaho.  One time I stopped for gas in a small town there, gave the guy my credit card, whereupon after seeing the name on the card, gave me a squinty-eyed look and asked, "are you related to Senator Frank Church?"  I’m not, and said so, but might have denied it in any case as he looked ready to dump sugar in my gas tank or some other dastardly deed.  The good Senator and I were not related and didn’t share the same politics either. Sen. Frank Church was one of the all-time great national figures. He did more for conservation anyone else in politics I can think of, with the possible exception of Teddy Rooseveldt. The Frank Church Wilderness in Idaho is named after him. It’s spectacular, enclosing the finest wilderness river in the lower 48 — the Middle Fork of the Salmon. I’m just sickened by the cast of disreputable characters that have taken over Idaho politics at the national level. I miss you, Frank, and I miss Sen.Chafee of Rhode Island, a Republican who wasn’t afraid to stand up for the public interest. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

They named the north loop in Dallas the LBJ Freeway in honor of LBJ because they stole all of the land.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sen. Frank Church was one of the all-time great national figures. He did more for conservation anyone else in politics I can think of, with the possible exception of Teddy Rooseveldt. The Frank Church Wilderness in Idaho is named after him. It’s spectacular, enclosing the finest wilderness river in the lower 48 — the Middle Fork of the Salmon. I’m just sickened by the cast of disreputable characters that have taken over Idaho politics at the national level. I miss you, Frank, and I miss Sen.Chafee of Rhode Island, a Republican who wasn’t afraid to stand up for the public interest.

You’re right of course, and Sen. Church should have been recognized with having a wilderness area named in his honor, at the least.  I didn’t mean to denigrate him, and hope you didn’t take it that way.  The FCWA is some spectacular country that I’d love to see up close and personal, like say, astride a horse on a pack-in flyfishing trip. That will probably never happen but at least it’s nice to know it’s there, and waiting. Frank Church Elkhart, IN USAF RETIRED – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

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They named the north loop in Dallas the LBJ Freeway in honor of LBJ because they stole all of the land.

        in view of the fact that "land stealing" is a well known core component of successful capitalism, i should think that lbj would occupy a prime space in your pantheon of heroes, david.         not that i, too, am *not* a capitalist; it just seems that if one is labeled a "democrat" (whatever that is), you refuse to believe that he can also be a capitalist.  i think you will have to admit that materialism is no respecter of political labels. wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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   in view of the fact that "land stealing" is a well known core component of successful capitalism, i should think that lbj would occupy a prime space in your pantheon of heroes, david.

Not to mention the fact that LBJ was a *serious* poon hound<g. — Charlie…

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LBJ because they stole all of the land. My parents house was just a couple of miles north of where they built the LBJ Freeway and in our house it was always refered to as the SOB Freeway. Big Dale

But there was no one better at getting out the cementary vote than LBJ. Whether you were a republican or democrat…if you were dead…you always casted your vote for Lyndon. obroff (this one should be fun): How many believe that LBJ had a hand in the Dallas assassination of JFK? Waldo — Ezflyfish.com http://www.ezflyfish.com BRBG http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 (828)963-5001

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LBJ because they stole all of the land.

My parents house was just a couple of miles north of where they built the LBJ Freeway and in our house it was always refered to as the SOB Freeway. Big Dale

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obroff (this one should be fun): How many believe that LBJ had a hand in the Dallas assassination of JFK? Waldo

Just a note Waldo, the MOSAD ran a full scale scenario of the Dallas shooting with their best marksmen and could not duplicate the event. Their official report said that Oswald didn’t do it.  The KGB didn’t do it and the Kremlin believed Kennedy to be the one man in Washington they could trust to some degree.  I wonder if they have the same faith in Clinton? Remember the quote from the Navigator in Dune?  "…plots within plots, within plots…" — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

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Remember the quote from the Navigator in Dune?  "…plots within plots, within plots…"

Wayne, for an old feller you sure seem rather adept with pop culture references. Mu

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In article <Pine.SOL.4.10.9911101035150.17986- Wayne, for an old feller you sure seem rather adept with pop culture references. Mu

Mu, I’ve never been too bashful to steal the good stuff from anybody’s culture!! — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

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The good Senator and I were not related and didn’t share the same politics either.

Of course that’s JUST what we could expect you to say under the circumstances! Got any ID bub?  Would you agree to a DNA analysis?    

Response:

How many believe that LBJ had a hand in the Dallas assassination of JFK?

Dallas assassinated an airport?  Huh?  Where was I in ‘63?

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Question:

Want the finest flyfishing experience of your life?  Little Grizzly Creek Ranch, Walden, Colorado, features outstanding new accommodations, gourmet food, fine wine, hosted bar, 7 miles of private streams at the headwaters of the North Platte, five varieties of trout, guides and instruction, all for one price.  Check out our home page at: brochure.  Reservations are being accepted for July, August and September or 1997.

Response:

Want the finest flyfishing experience of your life?  Little Grizzly Creek Ranch, Walden, Colorado, features outstanding new accommodations, gourmet food, fine wine, hosted bar, 7 miles of private streams at the headwaters of the North Platte, five varieties of trout, guides and instruction, all for one price.  Check out our home page at: brochure.  Reservations are being accepted for July, August and September or 1997.

and when you’re done over there, come on over and we’ll murder some stockers and rip the tops off some homebrews. TimW Never a fee to my ‘clients’

Response:

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   The Phelps Dodge Mining Corp.- America’s largest copper producer- has <snip has never mined gold in the United States.   Cyanide is a highly toxic substance- even in minute amounts.  Mining companies spray cyanide over huge heaps of low grade ore to extract gold. Most mines that use this heap- leach method have leaked cyanide into nearby streams and aquifers where it can persist for a long time. Actually a mining engineer told me that cyanide is so reactive with carbon compounds, that it is totally absorbed very quickly in a river bed. Oh sure its toxic, but it doesn’t last long or travel far. In 1991 the Summitville Mine in Colorado spilled cyanide and heavy metals into the Alamosa River, killing all aquatic life in a 19 mile stretch. This was after assurances were given when the mine opened that "state of the art" pollution controls were being used. There is a 120 mile section of the Clark Fork River in NW Montana that is a Superfund site because of mining pollution. Dams and ponds do nothing when you have torrential rains and flooding, causing the cyanide and heavy metal solution to overflow, which has happened at a number of mining sites.

Response:

  The Phelps Dodge Mining Corp.- America’s largest copper producer- has <snip has never mined gold in the United States. Wrong. Copper mining in leach pits is very similar to gold mining. Phelps Dodge removes huge quantities of gold from its copper operations.

Yes, but this is the first ever "gold" mining venture, in which gold is the primary objective.  Of course they have removed gold from copper operations, but they were not "gold" mining.    Cyanide is a highly toxic substance- even in minute amounts.  Mining companies spray cyanide over huge heaps of low grade ore to extract gold. Most mines that use this heap- leach method have leaked cyanide into nearby streams and aquifers where it can persist for a long time. Yes, cyanide is highly toxic, but please explain the statement regarding MOST mines leaking cyanide into nearby streams. While it is true that there have been cyanide leaks,  the word MOST is very misleading.  Some specific numbers would be quite interesting to see.  And cyanide does not persist for a long time. Shawn This statement is also true.  Mines that have used the heap-leach method

use impoundment dams that collect the waste cyanide.  The dams are lined with polyurethane liners that are as thick as a nickel.  In addition, the ore piles are put on top of polyurethane sheets which are supposed to keep the cyanide out of groundwater.  Every major Montana mine; and large mining companies are the primary users of cyanide-leaching has been cited for some type of water quality violation, most of which are related to cyanide leakage.  The liners are often the reason for the leak; holes, tears, seam leakage.  Rain storms have been a cause also, as they have filled up waste reservoirs and caused them to overflow.  If cyanide gets into groundwater, it gets into streams.     A large enough cyanide spill, or consistent leakage can persist for a long time in streams and rivers.  Usually, by the time groundwater leakage of cyanide is detected by the EPA or the Montana Department of Environmental Quality (DEQ), because mining companies are not likely to report, or even know about many of these leaks, they have already done their damage.  Aquatic life is much more sensitive to cyanide in lesser amounts than non aquatic life.   Shawn, keep in mind that the mining industry in Montana may be different from the industry in other states.  Our water quality laws are much more lenient than many places, thus, it is important to pass I-122.  Our past mining history shows that.  If you have any questions about the record regarding cyanide leakage, just contact the Montana Environmental Information Center, who’s address is in my original letter.  Or better yet, come to Montana sometime and see the destruction left in the place where a mountain was before, and fish the rivers that once had fish!                            Craig

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  The Phelps Dodge Mining Corp.- America’s largest copper producer- has <snip has never mined gold in the United States. Wrong. Copper mining in leach pits is very similar to gold mining. Phelps Dodge removes huge quantities of gold from its copper operations.   Cyanide is a highly toxic substance- even in minute amounts.  Mining companies spray cyanide over huge heaps of low grade ore to extract gold. Most mines that use this heap- leach method have leaked cyanide into nearby streams and aquifers where it can persist for a long time.

Yes, cyanide is highly toxic, but please explain the statement regarding MOST mines leaking cyanide into nearby streams. While it is true that there have been cyanide leaks,  the word MOST is very misleading.  Some specific numbers would be quite interesting to see.  And cyanide does not persist for a long time. Shawn

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   The Phelps Dodge Mining Corp.- America’s largest copper producer- has <snip has never mined gold in the United States. Wrong. Copper mining in leach pits is very similar to gold mining. Phelps Dodge removes huge quantities of gold from its copper operations.   Cyanide is a highly toxic substance- even in minute amounts.  Mining companies spray cyanide over huge heaps of low grade ore to extract gold. Most mines that use this heap- leach method have leaked cyanide into nearby streams and aquifers where it can persist for a long time. Actually a mining engineer told me that cyanide is so reactive with carbon compounds, that it is totally absorbed very quickly in a river bed. Oh sure its toxic, but it doesn’t last long or travel far. I understand how you feel about this, but these mining operations are not as slip shod as you suggest. Phelps Dodge uses a closed recycling leach method where the leached metal ions are first removed by electrowining, then the water solution is pumped back onto the leach pile. Dams and pond liners prevent the escape of valuable fluids.

In 1991 the Summitville Mine in Colorado spilled cyanide and heavy metals into the Alamosa River, killing all aquatic life in a 19 mile stretch. This was after assurances were given when the mine opened that "state of the art" pollution controls were being used. There is a 120 mile section of the Clark Fork River in NW Montana that is a Superfund site because of mining pollution. Dams and ponds do nothing when you have torrential rains and flooding, causing the cyanide and heavy metal solution to overflow, which has happened at a number of mining sites.

Response:

Dams and pondliners prevent the escape of valuable fluids.

Right. And when (not if) those liners fail: 100 years, 500 years, even 2000 years if wer’e really lucky, the entire area becomes a superfund site.  Note that the acid leaches lots of heavy metals, highly toxic, *other* than gold, which poison the ground and the water supply. – - – the cyanide is not the major problem!    it’s the leached metals – - – which Jim won’t discuss I suppose Jim is gonna claim that the damn $1.83 per acre will pay for the impossible clean-up, like it has in Colarado? Jim, exactly how would you clean up those Colorado acid leach sites ??? – - –   Funny thing these ‘white people’: They see a mountain, all they want to do is blow it into a pile of acid leaching crap (note the acid leached a lot of *really* poisonous heavy metals). For a few pounds of shiny yellow metal, which they’ve already got more of in Fort Knox than they can do anything productive or pretty with.   Then these ‘white people’ take the money, declare the company bankrupt, and skip town… all the time whining about how we are interfering with ‘their west’.   If this is an excuse to make them rich at taxpayer expense, lets just bring back welfare and GIVE them the damn money *not* to totally fuck up the place. Let ‘em sit at home and watch TV. I’ve seen enough hard rock mining shit to care a lot about this… I’m not sorry about the language.

Response:

  The Phelps Dodge Mining Corp.- America’s largest copper producer- has

<snip has never mined gold in the United States. Wrong. Copper mining in leach pits is very similar to gold mining. Phelps Dodge removes huge quantities of gold from its copper operations.   Cyanide is a highly toxic substance- even in minute amounts.  Mining companies spray cyanide over huge heaps of low grade ore to extract gold. Most mines that use this heap- leach method have leaked cyanide into nearby streams and aquifers where it can persist for a long time.

Actually a mining engineer told me that cyanide is so reactive with carbon compounds, that it is totally absorbed very quickly in a river bed. Oh sure its toxic, but it doesn’t last long or travel far. I understand how you feel about this, but these mining operations are not as slip shod as you suggest. Phelps Dodge uses a closed recycling leach method where the leached metal ions are first removed by electrowining, then the water solution is pumped back onto the leach pile. Dams and pond liners prevent the escape of valuable fluids. Jim

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            BIG INDUSTRY GOLD MINE WILL RUIN MONTANA RIVER   The Blackfoot River, which has flowed clean and cold in Montana from its headwaters near the continental divide for thousands of years is now being threatened by a huge open-pit cyanide heap-leach mine.  The Phelps Dodge Mining Corp. and Canyon Resources Inc. – the Seven-Up Pete Joint Venture, wants to mine the river’s headwaters for gold.  The mine site, including 172 million pounds of cyanide, which will be poured over 980 million tons of removed ore from the mountain will sit just 1/4 mile from the Blackfoot River.  (The Blackfoot River, by the way was recently made famous by Norman Maclean in his novel "A River Runs Through It".)   To get at the gold, buried 1,200 feet underground in trace amounts, the mining company will have to dismantle two pine-covered buttes, and for each ton of ore, the miners will recover 0.02 ounces of gold.  The remaining pit, more than a mile across and deep enough to hide the Washington Monument will collect groundwater which will be contaminated with heavy metals, and will have to be pumped out at the rate of 15.8 million gallons a day.   In Butte Montana, the Berkely Pit copper mine, which is no longer in operation has a similar sized hole.  The pit is filling up with water, and officials have no way to get rid of the Carcinogen’s, toxins or metals in it, which have already leaked into the water table of the town of Butte.  The mines copper smelter, the Anaconda Smelter has dumped tons of waste sediment into the Clark Fork River which has already caused several fish-kills, and water quality problems in my town, Missoula MT.   The Blackfoot River feeds into the Clark Fork to the East, before it flows into Missoula, which means that a spill or leak of cyanide or heavy metals into the Blackfoot, would also terminally harm the Clark Fork. Both rivers are currently used regularly for rafting, kayaking, fly fishing and other recreations.   The Phelps Dodge Mining Corp.- America’s largest copper producer- has had accidents at virtually all its mines.  It has been cited and fined frequently for toxic discharges into nearby waters.  The company has never mined gold in the United States.   Cyanide is a highly toxic substance- even in minute amounts.  Mining companies spray cyanide over huge heaps of low grade ore to extract gold. Most mines that use this heap- leach method have leaked cyanide into nearby streams and aquifers where it can persist for a long time.  Even in dilute solutions, cyanide kills fish and other life forms.  A leak of this chemical poison into the Blackfoot could finish the river for decades.   In November, the people of Montana will be voting for or against Initiative 122, "The Clean Water Initiative".  This initiative demands higher standards for removal of carcinogens and toxins before being discharged into state waters.  The current law, one of the most lax water quality laws in the country, allows mine discharges to be diluted after release into state waters, where it is measured down stream after a "mixing zone".  The "mixing zone" technique uses the river to dilute waste rather than using expensive machinery to filter it out. The current "easy to mine cheaply" water law is one of the reasons so many mining corporations seek Montana sites over mine sites in other states.   The Phelps Dodge Mining Co. has spent over 1 million dollars on TV and radio adds in recent months, which Missoula and other communities across the state have been bombarded with.  The adds claim that state water laws are sufficient, which they clearly are not, and that stricter laws for removing higher levels of poisons before discharge from mines will put many mines out of business and hurt the states economy. The so-called "Montanans for Common Sense Water Laws" advertisements that the mining industry has created have been cited as being "illegal" by the fair-election watchdog group, "Common Cause".   "Using a misleading name, "Montanans for Common Sense Water Laws," to run a million-dollar media blitz, the Industry is succeeding in changing citizen beliefs, and they’re breaking the law to do it."  (Hal Harper, Democratic state representative from Helena, MT.)  Unfortunately, many people in the state have been scared by these ads, and swayed into believing that I-122 will hurt the economy and that it unfairly targets the mining industry.  The fact is that mining state-wide, accounts for less than one percent of the workforce, and mining has a long history of causing post mining recessions that hurt the economy.     On top of the adds, the mining industry has donated computers to the local high school, X-ray machines to the local clinic and it helped to insulate the local senior citizens facility in an attempt to win support for the upcoming vote against the Clean Water Initiative.  Proponents of I-122 believe that if a mine can not find a way to clean up their mess before they release water into the river, they should not be mining in the first place.     Supporters of I-122 have raised only around 300 thousand dollars toward the fight to make higher water quality standards law, so we need as much support as possible.  The Clark Fork-Pend Oreille Coalition recommends writing or contacting the following people to voice your opinion or concerns:  Write to Montana governor Marc Racicot, who currently favors mining and opposes I-122.                              Gov. Marc Racicot                          Capitol Station                          Helena, MT 59620                          (406)444-3111 The Phelps Dodge Mine Co. has applied to the Montana Department of Environmental Quality  (DEQ) for a permit to build this mine.  Write Sandi Olsen at the DEQ.  Ask her to put you on the mailing list for public scoping on the Environmental Impact Statement (EIS) that the DEQ will prepare once it deems Phelps Dodge’s application complete.  The findings are what determine whether the state approves or denies this permit.                          Sandi Olsen                          Montana DEQ                          P.O. Box 200901                          Helena, MT 59620                          (406)444-4988   Write a letter to your local newspaper.  Explain that the Blackfoot is too precious to trade for the short-term and questionable benefits from mining.  Remember; this is not just a Montana problem.  We all need to speak out against giant corporations that value their own interests of profit and gain over people and environment!  For more information and updates on this issue, please contact the following:                           Clark Fork- pend Oreille Coalition                       P.O. Box 7593                                                     Missoula, MT 59807                       (406)542-0539                       Montana Council of Trout Unlimited                       P.O Box 7186                       Missoula, MT 59807                       (406)543-0054                       Montana Environmental Information Center                       P.O. Box 1184                       Helena, MT 59624                       (406)443-2520    I am a University of Montana student and am not affiliated with any of the above organizations.  I am just attempting to help get the word out that what may happen if I-122 loses, is the destruction of a river and an eco-system that can not be replaced for decades.   Much of the above information came from articles from the San Francisco Examiner, The Missoulian, the Great Falls Tribune, the Clark Fork-pend Oreille Coalition and my own research and discussions with other sources.                   Craig Murphy

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : : We canoed the Quetico the 9th thru the 13th of this month and I remember : : before going reading some posts by other folks that were to be going that : : week too.  I’d like to compare notes on what your trip was like (fishing, : : Northern Lights, Wolves, Bears, weather, etc).  Anyone care to swap lies? I canoed the Boundary Waters from Sept. 13th – 20th, pretty close to Quetico. Fishing was pretty good (we caught some decent bass), and the weather was outstanding, except for a little rain on Sunday the 15th.  We didn’t see any bears, although we were careful to hang our packs just in case (we saw bear tracks and scat at several of our portages).  We did see moose, bald eagles, beavers, and a lot of other wildlife. The skies were very clear for most of our trip, and I did see the Northern Lights (which was a thrill for me, because I’m from NJ), as well as more stars than I’ve ever seen before. How was Quetico?  This was our first time at BWCA, and we’re trying to think of an equally spectacular place to go next year…. – Scot R.

We had lots of windy, rainy and cool weather so that limited how much messing around in our canoe we did.  We fished from it some one afternoon below a rapid.  Aside from that, we just used the canoe to get in and out.  We took a float plane to and from the ranger sta. at Lac LaCroix and canoed over to McAree Lake.  We camped at 2 places on the north end of the lake.  We heard no wolves, saw no Northern Lights, Moose, Beaver, otters or Deer.  We did see lots of Bald Eagles (15 or so at least), one Grouse and some Loons.  We caught a total of 8 fish (3 Northerns, I Walleye and 4 Smallmouths) and lost about as many.  We lost a ton of tackle bank fishing as close to the bottom as possible (that’s where the book said they are…..on the bottom).  The wind died down one night out of 4 and we had one pretty spectacular sunset.  We averaged seeing about one party a day and saw motorboats everyday on McAree.  That was a little more crowded than I was expecting.  We didn’t paddle down to Rebecca Falls because we heard thru the portage grapevine that the campsites were taken.  We did get to fly over them on the plane trip out and they (2 of them side by side!) looked pretty spectacular and the campsitse were still taken.  I’m glad we went during the "off" season.  I have a feeling that we’d have seen lots more folks 2 or 3 weeks earlier.  You can never predict the weather but I think we’d've caught more fish and seen more wildlife if the weather would’ve been decent.  We would’ve seen the N. Lights on Tues. night too (we compared notes with some other paddlers on the plane to St. Paul afterwords and they saw them on Tues. night, it was clear for them further into Quetico.  They also heard wolves.  Sounds like you guys hit the weather pretty good.  It was still a kick in spite of the shit-o weather. Dave

Response:

: : We canoed the Quetico the 9th thru the 13th of this month and I remember : : before going reading some posts by other folks that were to be going that : : week too.  I’d like to compare notes on what your trip was like (fishing, : : Northern Lights, Wolves, Bears, weather, etc).  Anyone care to swap lies? I canoed the Boundary Waters from Sept. 13th – 20th, pretty close to Quetico. Fishing was pretty good (we caught some decent bass), and the weather was outstanding, except for a little rain on Sunday the 15th.  We didn’t see any bears, although we were careful to hang our packs just in case (we saw bear tracks and scat at several of our portages).  We did see moose, bald eagles, beavers, and a lot of other wildlife. The skies were very clear for most of our trip, and I did see the Northern Lights (which was a thrill for me, because I’m from NJ), as well as more stars than I’ve ever seen before. How was Quetico?  This was our first time at BWCA, and we’re trying to think of an equally spectacular place to go next year…. – Scot R.

Response:

We canoed the Quetico the 9th thru the 13th of this month and I remember before going reading some posts by other folks that were to be going that week too.  I’d like to compare notes on what your trip was like (fishing, Northern Lights, Wolves, Bears, weather, etc).  Anyone care to swap lies? Dave

Response:

: We canoed the Quetico the 9th thru the 13th of this month and I remember : before going reading some posts by other folks that were to be going that : week too.  I’d like to compare notes on what your trip was like (fishing, : Northern Lights, Wolves, Bears, weather, etc).  Anyone care to swap lies? I don’t see any reason why you cannot post your lies right here.  :-) —       .                      *        .    +          .  o        B. Michael Wick      .             ‘     .    +        Carnivorous Vulgarus      .   .     o                http://www.visi.com/~wick/   *   .    ’         +  *            .          *                        *        

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Question:

I am going on a 7 day canoe trip in Quetico Prov. Park in Ontario in July. Does anyone have any information on what gear and flys to use for the smallmouth bass and pike. Thanks

Response:

I am going on a 7 day canoe trip in Quetico Prov. Park in Ontario in July. Does anyone have any information on what gear and flys to use for the smallmouth bass and pike. Thanks

I was up there 2 years ago for a 14 day trip and what an experience!!  Although we weren’t fly fishing, several people were.  The patterns which they said were effective were assorted minnow patterns (Muddler, Sculpin) as well as a crawfish pattern.  Glo balls would probably work well from what I saw.  I was primarily spincasting and killed the smallmouth on a little floating rapala about 2 inches long.  We seemed to hit most of the bass below waterfalls.  My dad caught one that was almost 4 1/2 pounds!  Watch out for the Pike.  They chomped anything that they could catch.  You might also have fun with the walleye.  Besides, IMHO walleye taste much better than smallmouth. Let me know how it went (I’m jealous). Tom Cavitt

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Question:

How’s the fishing on the Truckee this time of year?  Would I be wasting my time if I were to go out this weekend (I don’t feel like driving to Pyramid Lake)?  The water seems very cold, but does that mean trout go totally dormant in the winter.  What patterns work this time of year.

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(Charles Taylor) writes: How’s the fishing on the Truckee this time of year?  Would I be wasting my time if I were to go out this weekend (I don’t feel like driving to Pyramid Lake)?  The water seems very cold, but does that mean trout go totally dormant in the winter.  What patterns work this time of year.

Chuck, All of the Truckee on the California side is closed.  The Nevada side is open and you should give the Reno Fly Shop (702) 827-0600 a call to find out if the water’s warm enough.  Needs to be in the mid 40’s at least to do much good.                                                    Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Schools Dan Gracia                                                               Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

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How’s the fishing on the Truckee this time of year?  Would I be wasting my time if I were to go out this weekend (I don’t feel like driving to Pyramid Lake)?  The water seems very cold, but does that mean trout go totally dormant in the winter.  What patterns work this time of year.

HI CHUCK-    Our weather has been unseasonably warm with resultant runoff. The fishing is poor in the river. Sorry.    -Ralph —

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