Question:

I was probably coming into the conversation late – what’s new?! I usually use a duncan loop to tie tippet to fly. I usually start with a fairly loose knot in the hope that the fly will move in a more natural manner (and that that will make a difference), but it usually tightens up after a few casts. If I can ever get to the point that I can tell that my choice of fly-to-tippet connection makes a difference I’ll stop being a banker and become a guide. Bob

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – bob, i think they’re talking about a loop, instead of clinch, uni, or other knot, connection of tippet to fly.  anyway, on that assumption, several experienced and knowledgeable folks in the nc mountains suggest the loop allows wets, nymphs, and streamers to move about in the water better and allow more realistic presentation.  i use the surgeon’s loop at times.  i haven’t been able to tell if there’s much difference in the fish’s appreciation of my effort though… jeff //snip// Bill, do you have any sense of whether a loop makes a difference ?  I’ve gone back and forth with loop vs non-loop connections to clousers (read: am I too tired/ cold/etc to bother) and haven’t noticed a difference. I’m going through the same debate. Nail knots are a pain in the ass to tie. I’ve been upset enough with loop connectors (they get jammed in the guides) that I swear never to use them again, but then when it’s cold and I want to get a new leader on quickly I capitulate. Have never tried leader links, but Wolfgang was using one on our Hazel trip and it seemed to be a good compact connection. — http://rwpatton.home.netcom.com/

Response:

 Try the "non-slip loop", which is the Rapala loop without the final  step.  Both are supposed to be stronger than the Duncan.

Thanks. The main need I have for strength is for pulling flies out of brush. Bob Wondering if it’s better to break the line at the tippet-to-fly connection or at the tippet-to-leader . . .

Response:

I use a no-slip loop knot whenever I want a loop in tippet. It’s easy to tie and very strong.

Like Bill says below I’ve used it as a loop knot on a fly works great and very strong. Good idea to use as a tippet connector I’ll have to try.

Response:

I’ll stop being a banker and become a guide. Bob

    liar, liar, pants on fire.  we all know you’re an accountant! yfitons wayno

Response:

Wayne Knight suggested that Leader Loops are for those people who’s fingers are too arthritic or disabled to tie a knot, otherwise one should use a damn bloodknot for a leader connection. I have been having problems tying small flies on to tippet (especially dry flies), so I now pre-snell/tie them, at my tying table with plenty of light and magnification, to about 16" – 18" of tippet and store them in a thing called a "Pip’s Box" made by Mack’s Lure of Leavenworth, Washington State US (You can hold better than a dozen flies or so with this thing without tangling the tippet, and it comes in colors with a see thru lid.  I organize my flies by the color of the box.)  My eyesight, especially at twilight or later, is not so good even with a flashlight.  I just can’t seem to get the tippet thru then I have a hell of a time tying the knot IF I get it threaded.  I am using Fluorocarbon tippet, these days, and I feel that a blood knot is not adequate for this material.  I then use a Tie-Fast Knot Tying tippet to the leader with their double splicing knot or double nail knot as some have described it, which I believe is considerably stronger than the blood knot, or at least my blood knots anyway…be curious to see if anyone else has the same experience. Just my two cents worth, anyway Padishar Creel

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  we all know you’re an accountant! Always prospecting for business, huh? Bob

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I think I will, Wayne. I made a leader, per Lefty Kreh’s directions, for casting big bugs. However, I used uni to uni knots. I think I will make another one with blood knots and attach it. I mastered nail knots a long time ago. Now, I am trying to expand my knot repertoire. I still maintain that the perfection loop is a myth… Bug, et al. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – cut the fly line, tie the nail and then tie the blood knot, you’ll feel much better

Response:

Hi All, Connecting the smaller tippet material to the leader we sometimes use a surgeons loop because it is stronger than a perfection loop.

it is but not by much.(perhaps 3 to 5%). Perfections should give a strength of 90 to 95% of the line vs 95% plus for a surgeon. The surgeons is a bit easier to tie though. An attribute of the perfection is that it is perfectly straight while a surgeon loop may put a bit of an angle in the line. The strongest loop you can tie is the bimini or some of the variants of this loop. It’s complicated and not usually used for a tippet loop in most applications

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, Connecting the smaller tippet material to the leader we sometimes use a surgeons loop because it is stronger than a perfection loop. it is but not by much.(perhaps 3 to 5%). Perfections should give a strength of 90 to 95% of the line vs 95% plus for a surgeon. The surgeons is a bit easier to tie though. An attribute of the perfection is that it is perfectly straight while a surgeon loop may put a bit of an angle in the line.

I use a no-slip loop knot whenever I want a loop in tippet. It’s easy to tie and very strong.

Response:

Ralph, — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, Connecting the smaller tippet material to the leader we sometimes use a surgeons loop because it is stronger than a perfection loop. it is but not by much.(perhaps 3 to 5%). Perfections should give a strength of 90 to 95% of the line vs 95% plus for a surgeon. The surgeons is a bit easier to tie though. An attribute of the perfection is that it is perfectly straight while a surgeon loop may put a bit of an angle in the line. The strongest loop you can tie is the bimini or some of the variants of this loop. It’s complicated and not usually used for a tippet loop in most applications

Response:

Steve, Lefty really promoted the non-slip loop knot and now I see most of all using it with flies we want to move freely like a Clouser minnow. Thanks. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, Connecting the smaller tippet material to the leader we sometimes use a surgeons loop because it is stronger than a perfection loop. it is but not by much.(perhaps 3 to 5%). Perfections should give a strength of 90 to 95% of the line vs 95% plus for a surgeon. The surgeons is a bit easier to tie though. An attribute of the perfection is that it is perfectly straight while a surgeon loop may put a bit of an angle in the line. I use a no-slip loop knot whenever I want a loop in tippet. It’s easy to tie and very strong.

Response:

Nice contribution. Very helpful. I hope you continue to foster goodwill in this group and for the sport of fly fishing. Bugged – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – cut the fly line, tie the nail and then tie the blood knot, you’ll feel much better Better strength-test it on your dick first, Collier.

Response:

//snip//  Bill, do you have any sense of whether a loop makes a  difference ?  I’ve gone back and forth with loop vs  non-loop connections to clousers (read: am I too tired/  cold/etc to bother) and haven’t noticed a difference.

I’m going through the same debate. Nail knots are a pain in the ass to tie. I’ve been upset enough with loop connectors (they get jammed in the guides) that I swear never to use them again, but then when it’s cold and I want to get a new leader on quickly I capitulate. Have never tried leader links, but Wolfgang was using one on our Hazel trip and it seemed to be a good compact connection. — http://rwpatton.home.netcom.com/

Response:

bob, i think they’re talking about a loop, instead of clinch, uni, or other knot, connection of tippet to fly.  anyway, on that assumption, several experienced and knowledgeable folks in the nc mountains suggest the loop allows wets, nymphs, and streamers to move about in the water better and allow more realistic presentation.  i use the surgeon’s loop at times.  i haven’t been able to tell if there’s much difference in the fish’s appreciation of my effort though… jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – //snip// Bill, do you have any sense of whether a loop makes a difference ?  I’ve gone back and forth with loop vs non-loop connections to clousers (read: am I too tired/ cold/etc to bother) and haven’t noticed a difference. I’m going through the same debate. Nail knots are a pain in the ass to tie. I’ve been upset enough with loop connectors (they get jammed in the guides) that I swear never to use them again, but then when it’s cold and I want to get a new leader on quickly I capitulate. Have never tried leader links, but Wolfgang was using one on our Hazel trip and it seemed to be a good compact connection. — http://rwpatton.home.netcom.com/

Response:

cut the fly line, tie the nail and then tie the blood knot, you’ll feel much better

Better strength-test it on your dick first, Collier.

Response:

I’ve found its hard to beat a perfection loop for most leader connections. The perfection (if tied properly) stands straight out from the standing line with no offset, and the knot strength is near 100%. I use it on all leader butts (with a whipped loop on the fly line), & on all tippet connections down to 4x.  5x & smaller I use a doubled surgeons knot.  I think its easier to tie than a surgeons loop, and, well….. it looks cool! B.J.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I personally think the perfection loop is something of a myth or some type of black magic. For leader loops, is it any better than a surgeon’s loop? Bug

Response:

Hi All, In larger diameter mono like attaching leader to a butt section we use perfection loops because they are a smaller, cleaner knot and strength is not an issue. Connecting the smaller tippet material to the leader we sometimes use a surgeons loop because it is stronger than a perfection loop. In larger diameter mono like attaching a leader to a butt section we also use a blood knot because it is a smaller, cleaner knot. Connecting the smaller tippet material to the leader we also use a triple surgeons knot because it is stronger. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I personally think the perfection loop is something of a myth or some type of black magic. For leader loops, is it any better than a surgeon’s loop? Bug

Response:

Can someone direct me to a site that will show how to tie the perfection loop and the surgeon’s loop?? Tony – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I personally think the perfection loop is something of a myth or some type of black magic. For leader loops, is it any better than a surgeon’s loop? Bug

Response:

Can someone direct me to a site that will show how to tie the perfection loop and the surgeon’s loop?? Tony

Hi Tony, Go here for any knot you’re apt to use: http://www.flyanglersonline.com/begin/knots/ Frank Sr.

Response:

I personally think the perfection loop is something of a myth or some type of black magic. For leader loops, is it any better than a surgeon’s loop? Bug

Response:

I personally think the perfection loop is something of a myth or some type of black magic. For leader loops, is it any better than a surgeon’s loop?

Leader Loops are for those people who’s fingers are too arthritic or disabled to tie a knot, otherwise one should use a damn bloodknot for a leader connection.

Response:

Leader Loops are for those people who’s fingers are too arthritic or disabled to tie a knot, otherwise one should use a damn bloodknot for a leader connection.

Actually, leader loops are used between the flyline and the butt section, where you aren’t likely to tie a blood knot. You could use a nail knot, a "nailless" nail knot, a needle knot, or a Zap-a-Gap connection, but not a blood knot, unless you’re either crazy or desperate or stupid. I’ve even heard of one person using two clinch knots, incredibly enough, but I don’t recommend it. I’d rather use a blood knot. I usually tie a new leader onto the butt section (attached to the flyline with a leader link) with a blood knot. After quite a few leader changes I eventually need a new leader link and butt section, but that takes quite awhile — maybe once a year on my workhorse rig.

Response:

I speaking only from the leader end, agree blood knot to attach a butt section to a leader.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Leader Loops are for those people who’s fingers are too arthritic or disabled to tie a knot, otherwise one should use a damn bloodknot for a leader connection. Actually, leader loops are used between the flyline and the butt section, where you aren’t likely to tie a blood knot. You could use a nail knot, a "nailless" nail knot, a needle knot, or a Zap-a-Gap connection, but not a blood knot, unless you’re either crazy or desperate or stupid. I’ve even heard of one person using two clinch knots, incredibly enough, but I don’t recommend it. I’d rather use a blood knot. I usually tie a new leader onto the butt section (attached to the flyline with a leader link) with a blood knot. After quite a few leader changes I eventually need a new leader link and butt section, but that takes quite awhile — maybe once a year on my workhorse rig.

Response:

You’re talking about a blood knot to connect the leader to the fly line?? I wanted to use a nail knot to connect the leader, but the line came with a loop, and I justed couldn’t get myself to cut the flyline. Anyway, I’m not arthritic or disabled, but I am confused and thick-headed. Are you saying a loop to loop leader to flyline is bad? Sorry. Sometimes I am profoundly obtuse Bug, et al. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I personally think the perfection loop is something of a myth or some type of black magic. For leader loops, is it any better than a surgeon’s loop? Leader Loops are for those people who’s fingers are too arthritic or disabled to tie a knot, otherwise one should use a damn bloodknot for a leader connection.

Response:

cut the fly line, tie the nail and then tie the blood knot, you’ll feel much better

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You’re talking about a blood knot to connect the leader to the fly line?? I wanted to use a nail knot to connect the leader, but the line came with a loop, and I justed couldn’t get myself to cut the flyline. Anyway, I’m not arthritic or disabled, but I am confused and thick-headed. Are you saying a loop to loop leader to flyline is bad? Sorry. Sometimes I am profoundly obtuse Bug, et al. I personally think the perfection loop is something of a myth or some type of black magic. For leader loops, is it any better than a surgeon’s loop? Leader Loops are for those people who’s fingers are too arthritic or disabled to tie a knot, otherwise one should use a damn bloodknot for a leader connection.

Response:

Question:

Can someone explain how to do it well? I find that, no matter how I try to lift the line to ‘toss it’ upstream, it always causes the fly to surge downstream. riverman

Response:

Can someone explain how to do it well? I find that, no matter how I try to lift the line to ‘toss it’ upstream, it always causes the fly to surge downstream. riverman

http://www.uky.edu/~agrdanny/flyfish/faq/faq-6.htm http://www.sexyloops.co.uk/flycasting/tmendingline.shtml http://www.flyfishingjournal.com/archives/fa199810.htm http://www.altrec.com/published/flyfish/skills/gettingamendmindset/ TL MC

Response:

Can someone explain how to do it well? I find that, no matter how I try to lift the line to ‘toss it’ upstream, it always causes the fly to surge downstream.

You could try fishing with Bruiser sometime. He’s the best I’ve ever seen. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Question:

Any recommendations for trout streams/fly shops near Steep Falls, ME in Late June? Thanks, Sam

Response:

Any recommendations for trout streams/fly shops near Steep Falls, ME in Late June? Thanks, Sam

Saco river would be good. Not sure about pond fishing but you might want to check a map and the regs and look for someplace. If the hex hatch starts early on one of those ponds, you cannot beat the action. Flyfish

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Terry, I would have to disagree with you that an "Average" flyfisherman/woman couldn’t benefit with a cane rod. I have taken beginning fly fishers and taught them how to cast on my 5 wt. G-Loomis and after an hour of fishing had them cast my 4 wt. bamboo (made by Peter McVey of Corbit Lake, BC). In almost all cases the new caster was able to cast easier and could find the "Sweet Spot" where the rod will almost cast by itself (Something I have never felt in any of the graphite rods I have cast).  Will these people purchase a bamboo rod later in their fishing lives? I don’t know. I do know that my wife will probably end up with one sooner or later (Of course she ends up using mine all the time anyway!). Don’t get me wrong, I love my 7′ 3wt Lamiglass graphite II rod. I also love my RPLXi 9′ 8wt Sage and my G-Loomis Premiere 9′ 5wt rods. But none of them have that "Sweet Spot" that just puts the line out there with so little effort and such precision as bamboo does. Until you have felt that you will continue to use these wonderfully overpriced graphite rods. Gary Johnson For the average angler I would have to say that Sage is more or less right. Most of your average flyfisherman are not particularly good casters and a cane rod would be wasted on them. Fly presentation and cosmetics are what makes cane fun. Cane cannot compete with composites for pure performance for the I have been away from ROFF for too long!  Things like work, kids, and the business kept getting in the way.  I have missed out on too much at ROFF though! For the cane rodbuilders in the group, thought you might be interested in an article I wrote about a recent Sage video.. take a look at the article and the video and let me know what you think! http://flyfishing.about.com/library/weekly/aa072000a.htm I would love to know Mr. Gherke’s comments too! Ian Scott http://flyfishing.about.com/

_____  Well said Gary. — George G. Bastard Bamboo Fly Rods http://www.gink.com/ http://www.gink.com/chat

Response:

The no-questions-asked return policy *must* account for a good chunk of that.  And of course, advertising costs.  See www.dorber.com for their ideas on the matter (they will not accept a return if you abused the rod (car door), but will accept tradeins for prorated value (based on condition).  I believe Bruce H bought one of these rods. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sage is just an example. I don’t want to stir up an old discussion about price/quality comparisons (NO I DON’T!), but for me 490 USD is still a ridiculous price for a rod. YMMV, of course. Herman Especially for a mass produced rod. The high end graphite rod prices are way out of line for what you get. Willi

– Regards, Jeff Before you buy.

Response:

Most definately a learner will benefit from a slower action rod that they can ‘feel’ more easily, but there are more economical ways of achieving that than using bamboo, surely? steve

Response:

Bamboo is an outdated, anchronistic material. If you like the look and feel, fine, but for pure performance it just doesn’t have it.

I absolutely agree. In fact, bamboo rods remind me of Apple notebooks. Underpowered but extremely cache. –Steve

Response:

Most definately a learner will benefit from a slower action rod that they can ‘feel’ more easily, but there are more economical ways of achieving that than using bamboo, surely?

There sure are. Find an old (like 15 years) Walton Powell graphite rod. Bamboo is an outdated, anchronistic material. If you like the look and feel, fine, but for pure performance it just doesn’t have it. Personally, I prefer faster rods for 90% of my fishing, even when I’m throwing weight. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Terry, I would have to disagree with you that an "Average" flyfisherman/woman couldn’t benefit with a cane rod. I have taken beginning fly fishers and taught them how to cast on my 5 wt. G-Loomis and after an hour of fishing had them cast my 4 wt. bamboo (made by Peter McVey of Corbit Lake, BC). In almost all cases the new caster was able to cast easier and could find the "Sweet Spot" where the rod will almost cast by itself (Something I have never felt in any of the graphite rods I have cast).  Will these people purchase a bamboo rod later in their fishing lives? I don’t know. I do know that my wife will probably end up with one sooner or later (Of course she ends up using mine all the time anyway!). Don’t get me wrong, I love my 7′ 3wt Lamiglass graphite II rod. I also love my RPLXi 9′ 8wt Sage and my G-Loomis Premiere 9′ 5wt rods. But none of them have that "Sweet Spot" that just puts the line out there with so little effort and such precision as bamboo does. Until you have felt that you will continue to use these wonderfully overpriced graphite rods. Gary Johnson

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For the average angler I would have to say that Sage is more or less right. Most of your average flyfisherman are not particularly good casters and a cane rod would be wasted on them. Fly presentation and cosmetics are what makes cane fun. Cane cannot compete with composites for pure performance for the I have been away from ROFF for too long!  Things like work, kids, and the business kept getting in the way.  I have missed out on too much at ROFF though! For the cane rodbuilders in the group, thought you might be interested in an article I wrote about a recent Sage video.. take a look at the article and the video and let me know what you think! http://flyfishing.about.com/library/weekly/aa072000a.htm I would love to know Mr. Gherke’s comments too! Ian Scott http://flyfishing.about.com/

Response:

Sage is just an example. I don’t want to stir up an old discussion about price/quality comparisons (NO I DON’T!), but for me 490 USD is still a ridiculous price for a rod. YMMV, of course. Herman

Especially for a mass produced rod. The high end graphite rod prices are way out of line for what you get. Willi

Response:

I will be hitting the Grand again, but I also want to head off in search of some bass too.  I know a few small hidden places not far from where I used to live near Grand Valley.. might give those a shot. We really should see if we can find a day we are both available, soon!

fer sure.  In fact, Grand Valley is where my son and I will be exploring tomorrow. I’ll probably post the usual trip report. Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

I picked up a tube of your wax actually, a few weeks ago.  I like it, George.  My son, who is 12 years old, just got into fly tying in a HUGE way, and wants to trade me his little disk of wax for my Gehrke’s tube.  I can’t believe you have a 12 year old fan! <grin I read your stint with interest and I do have a few constructive comments to offer, but at this time I decline for the reason above. I’ll let you know when the links go back up..

Email me your son’s mailing address please, Ian. — Mr.Gink "the saga continues"   http://www.gink.com/

Response:

I watched the video. It was interesting to see the process of building a rod. I do think they are a bit disingenious slamming bamboo rods. Until this year I would have probably said, oh yeah, see what I mean about bamboo. I recently got an old shakespeare bamboo off ebay that astonished me by casting a good 70 feet of line in the backyard, missing a guide and all the others are rusty as hell (I just couldn’t resist casting it before rendering it down to re-wrap). My sage 5wt doesn’t perform that well for me, nor does the 7wt. Maybe I was meant to have a bamboo all along. I do agree that bamboo rods are about tradition, they are a thing of beauty, each has it’s own feel, speed and special grace that a production graphite rod, just doesn’t capture. But for the masses graphite is still a good buy. Flyfish

Response:

______  Well Ion, the name is Gehrke, please and I see you are aware of our art work but you fail to list us as a manufacturer of fine Bamboo Fly Rods? I read your stint with interest and I do have a few constructive comments to offer, but at this time I decline for the reason above.  

The link is there now, George.  If you have a better page to link to, please let me know.   Thanks.  Would love to see your comments, either here or at the message board on the site! Ian

Response:

For the average angler I would have to say that Sage is more or less right. Most of your average flyfisherman are not particularly good casters and a cane rod would be wasted on them. Fly presentation and cosmetics are what makes cane fun. Cane cannot compete with composites for pure performance for the   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I have been away from ROFF for too long!  Things like work, kids, and the business kept getting in the way.  I have missed out on too much at ROFF though! For the cane rodbuilders in the group, thought you might be interested in an article I wrote about a recent Sage video.. take a look at the article and the video and let me know what you think! http://flyfishing.about.com/library/weekly/aa072000a.htm I would love to know Mr. Gherke’s comments too! Ian Scott http://flyfishing.about.com/

Response:

For the average angler Sage is waaay out of their league… pricewise. For the average angler a decent rod that just does what it’s supposed to do is more than enough. Ok, at least for me it is.. Herman For the average angler I would have to say that Sage is more or less right. Most of your average flyfisherman are not particularly good casters and a cane rod would be wasted on them. Fly presentation and cosmetics are what makes cane fun. Cane cannot compete with composites for pure performance for the

– Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

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For the average angler Sage is waaay out of their league… pricewise. …

For the average angler across the pond Sage is ridiculously expensive, but here in North America they’re right in line with the other high end rods. The John Norris of Penrith catalogue lists a Sage 690XP at 441 pounds sterling or about $660 US on a good day, the same rod sells here in the states for $490 US. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Sage is just an example. I don’t want to stir up an old discussion about price/quality comparisons (NO I DON’T!), but for me 490 USD is still a ridiculous price for a rod. YMMV, of course. Herman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For the average angler Sage is waaay out of their league… pricewise. … For the average angler across the pond Sage is ridiculously expensive, but here in North America they’re right in line with the other high end rods. The John Norris of Penrith catalogue lists a Sage 690XP at 441 pounds sterling or about $660 US on a good day, the same rod sells here in the states for $490 US. — Ken Fortenberry

– Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

Terry,    I don’t understand why a cane rod is wasted on the "average fly fisherman" more than any other fine rod would be.  Today there are more expensive rods being "wasted" on mediocre casters because they have money and want the very best.  Expensive rods don’t make good casters, only practice can do that. Ernie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For the average angler I would have to say that Sage is more or less right. Most of your average flyfisherman are not particularly good casters and a cane rod would be wasted on them. Fly presentation and cosmetics are what makes cane fun. Cane cannot compete with composites for pure performance for the I have been away from ROFF for too long!  Things like work, kids, and the business kept getting in the way.  I have missed out on too much at ROFF though! For the cane rodbuilders in the group, thought you might be interested in an article I wrote about a recent Sage video.. take a look at the article and the video and let me know what you think! http://flyfishing.about.com/library/weekly/aa072000a.htm I would love to know Mr. Gherke’s comments too! Ian Scott http://flyfishing.about.com/

Response:

I think that Sage is basically right, for pure performance in the hands of the average flyfisherman composites cannot be beat. Cane is about presentation and tradition and would be wasted on many of the foul mouthed cowboys on this list that flyfish because it is trendy Making cane rods affordable for all flyfishermen is a sterling idea but the thought of one particular guy (his reply to the not sorry posting) with an almost hand made cane rod  giving it some verbal because he cannot lay out the whole line is amusing. Terry     – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I have been away from ROFF for too long!  Things like work, kids, and the business kept getting in the way.  I have missed out on too much at ROFF though! For the cane rodbuilders in the group, thought you might be interested in an article I wrote about a recent Sage video.. take a look at the article and the video and let me know what you think! http://flyfishing.about.com/library/weekly/aa072000a.htm I would love to know Mr. Gherke’s comments too! Ian Scott http://flyfishing.about.com/

Response:

______  Well Ion, the name is Gehrke, please and I see you are aware of our art work but you fail to list us as a manufacturer of fine Bamboo Fly Rods?

Well, hot spit!  I was sure I had Gehrke in my spell checker!! Sorry about the typo, Mr. G.  :) I have you listed at the bottom of the article in question, under ‘Related Links’.  I used to have you listed when you had all that information on the Bastard Rod Company, but then the links seemed to go dead and I couldn’t figure out where you put the pages.  Goes to show you about these rod makers and wax producers when they design their websites and re-design them..   I picked up a tube of your wax actually, a few weeks ago.  I like it, George.  My son, who is 12 years old, just got into fly tying in a HUGE way, and wants to trade me his little disk of wax for my Gehrke’s tube.  I can’t believe you have a 12 year old fan! <grin I read your stint with interest and I do have a few constructive comments to offer, but at this time I decline for the reason above.  

I’ll let you know when the links go back up..

Response:

Wondered where you ran off to.

Been using your mini browns and Larry Medina’s turkey tail nymphs on the Grand.  I should take my camera more often.  The problem is, I never catch anything when I have the camera worth photographing.  When I don’t have it, I have lots of tales to tell, but no evidence! I tried this video URL and the thing will download but not run.  First it had me download a MS viewer then RealPlayer beta 8 and the damn thing still just sits.  I’m running IE 5.5 with all mod cons and the Sage Video page is full of broken GIFs – great site – NOT!

Hm.  Not sure what to say to help you out on that. Anyway, I’ll read the article without the video and post my appropriately rude comments.

I will look forward to them   Have you been out much yourself on the Grand lately?  Or anyplace else for that matter?  I am on Vacation for 3 weeks, and thinking about some spots to take my sons fishing with me.  The eldest (12 year old) is right into flyfishing.. the other two are still a little more comfortable with worms and such right now.

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Typical – after a couple of reboots and playing with the video settings, I finally have a working video. This was fascinating for me as though I’ve seen snippets of graphite rod making, I’ve never seen the whole enchilada. I can’t figure out why Gerry is going on about cane rods.  It’s not like they’re some major competion for him (or does the resurgence have him worried?)  Of course cane is heavier but some of the tapers being used now along with good lines, can produce amazing performance.   Ted Knott let me cast a brand new 9 wt. 3 pce. 8′ 6" cane he had designed. Though heavier, it had tremedous power and I’d have no qualms about spending a day on the water with it.   Gerry’s barking up the wrong tree. Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Been using your mini browns and Larry Medina’s turkey tail nymphs on the Grand.  I should take my camera more often.  The problem is, I never catch anything when I have the camera worth photographing.  When I don’t have it, I have lots of tales to tell, but no evidence!

The Grand has been running off colour a lot of late – best conditions for the mini. – Always the way.  Leave the camera in the truck and Mr. Monster Brown obliges. Hm.  Not sure what to say to help you out on that. Anyway, I’ll read the article without the video and post my appropriately rude comments.

Got it working. I will look forward to them   Have you been out much yourself on the Grand lately?  Or anyplace else for that matter?  I am on Vacation for 3 weeks, and thinking about some spots to take my sons fishing with me.  The eldest (12 year old) is right into flyfishing.. the other two are still a little more comfortable with worms and such right now.

I’m starting a one week vacation right now but much of it will be taken up by my MA thesis.  Last week, we tried the Glen Morris area (look back a week for the Scott, Greg and Peter Show post) but nothing but tiddlers.  My son and his friend just got back from the Grand, Cedar Run – one brown for him and 5 for Adam.  Good luck with the kids, I’m just introducing my 21 year old daughter to the game.  She was a real hot angler before puberty (worms mostly) but you know what happens when they hit their teens – boys, clothes, music, makeup, etc. etc.  Bronte Creek in Lowville Park is a great place to take a budding fly fisher, – willing baby steelies and lots of easy water and plenty of room.  Duffins Creek at the east end is about the same.  Have fun and let me know if you can get out for a serious day on the Grand. Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Good luck with the kids, I’m just introducing my 21 year old daughter to the game.  She was a real hot angler before puberty (worms mostly) but you know what happens when they hit their teens – boys, clothes, music, makeup, etc. etc.  Bronte Creek in Lowville Park is a great place to take a budding fly fisher, – willing baby steelies and lots of easy water and plenty of room.  Duffins Creek at the east end is about the same.  Have fun and let me know if you can get out for a serious day on the Grand.

21 is too young for me.  Now that my divorce is just about through, I have to keep my eyes out for a fly fishin’ woman, a little older though probably.  And, yes looks DO count! With respect to the Duffins, that is exactly where my eldest had his introduction to flyfishing, this spring!  It was awesome – he caught two little browns on his first day out with a fly!  I was really proud of him, especially after he said he didn’t care much for worm fishing anymore .  I wrote an article about that trip, if you’re interested. Alex was pretty impressed! http://flyfishing.about.com/library/weekly/aa052800a.htm We spent some time on Oshawa Creek first, just to let Alex get the hang of it.  Actually, I had him do a bit of casting before we even got down to the stream, but he picked it up really quick!  Kids are probably easier to teach in some ways than adults. I will be hitting the Grand again, but I also want to head off in search of some bass too.  I know a few small hidden places not far from where I used to live near Grand Valley.. might give those a shot. We really should see if we can find a day we are both available, soon! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

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I have been away from ROFF for too long!  Things like work, kids, and the business kept getting in the way.  I have missed out on too much at ROFF though! For the cane rodbuilders in the group, thought you might be interested in an article I wrote about a recent Sage video.. take a look at the article and the video and let me know what you think! http://flyfishing.about.com/library/weekly/aa072000a.htm I would love to know Mr. Gherke’s comments too! Ian Scott http://flyfishing.about.com/

Wondered where you ran off to. I tried this video URL and the thing will download but not run.  First it had me download a MS viewer then RealPlayer beta 8 and the damn thing still just sits.  I’m running IE 5.5 with all mod cons and the Sage Video page is full of broken GIFs – great site – NOT! Anyway, I’ll read the article without the video and post my appropriately rude comments. Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

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I have been away from ROFF for too long!  Things like work, kids, and the business kept getting in the way.  I have missed out on too much at ROFF though! For the cane rodbuilders in the group, thought you might be interested in an article I wrote about a recent Sage video.. take a look at the article and the video and let me know what you think! http://flyfishing.about.com/library/weekly/aa072000a.htm I would love to know Mr. Gherke’s comments too! Ian Scott http://flyfishing.about.com/

______  Well Ion, the name is Gehrke, please and I see you are aware of our art work but you fail to list us as a manufacturer of fine Bamboo Fly Rods? I read your stint with interest and I do have a few constructive comments to offer, but at this time I decline for the reason above.   Take care friend, — Mr.Gink "the saga continues"   http://www.gink.com/

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I have been away from ROFF for too long!  Things like work, kids, and the business kept getting in the way.  I have missed out on too much at ROFF though! For the cane rodbuilders in the group, thought you might be interested in an article I wrote about a recent Sage video.. take a look at the article and the video and let me know what you think! http://flyfishing.about.com/library/weekly/aa072000a.htm I would love to know Mr. Gherke’s comments too! Ian Scott http://flyfishing.about.com/

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Question:

central PA. Third week of July. Need guide and/or boat rental info,

http://www.billsguideservice.com/ RichZ

Question:

Hi all, lost the ‘alt.flyfishing’ newsgroup and when trying to add it again, it was removed again. Is it still there or has it been terminated for lack of interest? Bert

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I guess it t-boned.. (to t-bone: to disappear abruptly, only to reappear even more unexpectantly) OBROFF: I’ll be leaving on holidays in only tree days from now, staying almost on the banks of the biggest reservoir in the Netherlands (Veerse Meer). Any tips on patterns still welcome.. Hi all, lost the ‘alt.flyfishing’ newsgroup and when trying to add it again, it was removed again. Is it still there or has it been terminated for lack of interest? Bert

– Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

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Hi Herman something Have a good time my friend Cheers Hans – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I guess it t-boned.. (to t-bone: to disappear abruptly, only to reappear even more unexpectantly) OBROFF: I’ll be leaving on holidays in only tree days from now, staying almost on the banks of the biggest reservoir in the Netherlands (Veerse Meer). Any tips on patterns still welcome.. Hi all, lost the ‘alt.flyfishing’ newsgroup and when trying to add it again, it was removed again. Is it still there or has it been terminated for lack of interest? Bert — Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

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It’s there and it’s profound as hell. — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

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It’s there and it’s profound as hell. Silence *is* profound I suppose<g.

If a newsgroup fails and there’s no one there to hear it does it still make a sound? …you bet it would….if it landed on top of your head, your head, if it landed on top of your heeeeaaaaadddd… Sorry, violent cartoon flashbacks, disregard,      - Ken — "During my service in the United States Congress, I took the  initiative in creating the Internet."  - Al Gore

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No, no, you can’t do that! The verb t-bone has already been defined…

Yep. From the _Chicago Tribune_ Thursday July 8, 1999. Quotables "It takes intense concentration just to stay in my lane. And when you’re covering a mile every five seconds, you just hope that security has cleared the course so you don’t T-bone some Winnebago that’s out there." -Race driver Craig Breedlove who has set five world land-speed records and plans to try to break the 760 m.p.h. sound barrier in September in Nevada’s Black Rock Desert. Sorry, Tim, but the verb T-bone hasn’t made the OED… yet. — Ken Fortenberry

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It’s there and it’s profound as hell.

LOL! Good one, TBone. In the last 30 days there have been 63 threads started on alt.flyfishing. 48 of them never received even a single response from anyone (probably because most of them are advertisements. Leaving 15 threads with actual followups – mostly 1 or 2, a few between 3 and  5. Mostly pure beginner stuff, mostly going unanswered. I didn’t count the cross-posted troll from the alt.romath group with the 410 followups… It took me a while to find the "profound as hell" thread, but here it is in case anyone else missed it. Not easy. Not easy.

But methaphoric as hell. "Methaphoric"?  Whoa – you’re right, TBone. That’s profound as hell… /daytripper (killing time waiting for a compile to finish)

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[snipped] Gov. Johnson was quoted as saying something close to (as close as my memory can get me), "I was skiing down the slope, and the next thing I knew, I got t-boned by this kid". Anyways, this definition probably has its uses on ROFF as well

Given TBone’s predilection for gay references, the verb form must only apply when struck from behind. /daytripper ;^)

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Question:

I have recently begun fly fishing and am from the New Orleans area. Can anyone offer some specific areas to fish near here. I know there are many places around here, I just don’t know where they are. I am looking for places to fish both from a boat and from shore or wading. I’ve been with a guide, but it won’t take long to run out of money if I use one every time I want to fish. Thanks. Larry

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My suggestion is to go see Tom at Bayou Specialties in Jefferson–he can point you in the right direction–and tell him Jeff Boudreaux sent you. Jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have recently begun fly fishing and am from the New Orleans area. Can anyone offer some specific areas to fish near here. I know there are many places around here, I just don’t know where they are. I am looking for places to fish both from a boat and from shore or wading. I’ve been with a guide, but it won’t take long to run out of money if I use one every time I want to fish. Thanks. Larry

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Lake Calcasieu (sp.?) near Lake Charles is supposed to be excellent for salt water.  You can contact Dave at Orvis Houston 713-783-1111 or an Orvis shop if you have one in N.O. for more info & good guides info. Tight lines Al Carlton

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Larry… was just going through the newsgroups postings and found your request…hope you don’t mind some advice. In order to be successful you need to find an area that you like and get to know it….well! No one can just pull into somewhere they’ve never been before and expect to put fish in the boat. It takes time to learn a spot geographically, as well as the tidal effects, fly selection, etc. Even though I am a guide and have fished all over the US for the last 30 years or so….I always hire a guide the first day or two I go somewhere new. When I feel I know what’s going on, then I strike out on my own…it’s the only way to optimize your chances. As far as the guide thing goes, yes…I agree it is expensive. However, there are ways to captilize on your investment. First…find a good guide who works in the area you want to learn. In New Orleans, I’d call Capt. Kirby LeCour (540-464-1697..tell him I recommended you). Tell him you want to learn the area so you can fish on your own. When you go out, ask a LOT of questions…pay attention to WHERE you go….and spend your time LEARNING…not worrying about how many fish you put in the box. By the way, one gentleman referred you to the ORVIS store in Houston. He also suggested you fish Calcasieu Lake in SW Louisiana. I agree with one of his points…Calcasieu is a great area. I know…I guide here. As for contacting them…well, caveat emptor. If I can be of any help, lemme know. Capt. Briant Smith Lake Charles, LA

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Question:

looking for stream conditions and fly patterns to use in the northwest SC, northeast  GA, southwest NC area.  have not been flyfishing long and have a desire to get that first fish!!! thanks

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looking for stream conditions and fly patterns to use in the northwest SC, northeast  GA, southwest NC area.  have not been flyfishing long and have a desire to get that first fish!!! thanks

Hasn’t rained in a while so the creeks I was on last weekend (in the Blue Ridge WMA in N GA) were about normal. Got a few takes on bwo and elk hair caddis but didn’t see any rising fish. — Charlie…

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looking for stream conditions and fly patterns to use in the northwest SC, northeast  GA, southwest NC area.  have not been flyfishing long and have a desire to get that first fish!!!

Try the Chattooga River access at Burrell’s Ford from GA and SC.  I’d recommend getting the Chattooga River Wild and Scenic River Map published by the Forest Service.  The river is very fishable now and you can check the water level at the USGS web site.  This river normally runs 2 to 3 feet, if it is above 5 feet don’t waste your time.  Humpy’s and Elk hair caddis are good in the pocket water, and Hare’s ears are good in the pools.  I caught a really nice Brown a couple of weeks ago in the West Fork of the Chattooga.  However, the casting is tight and may not be what you are looking for if your new to the sport.  I also like to fish upstream of the West Fork up toward Elliott Rock (which is the border with NC).  The river is pretty wide with plenty of room for a backcast. It is a couple of mile hike upstream of Burrells Ford and most of thebait fishermen won’t make the trip.  Good Luck. Patrick

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Question:

Does anyone have information about fishing in Huatulco/Puerto Escondido, Mexico area? I am planning a trip for mid august, but the only problem is, with less then a month left, I still have no idea what to expect. I will only be able to bring a 7/8 weight, and I will probably fish the bays in Huatulco and Puerto Angel….any other hot spots in the area???? I need to know what kind of fish are availible to me, and of course what flies (specific patterns?) or type of flies (shrimp? baitfish?) and what sizes i should tie them in….also handy would be possibly guide recommendations and leader strengths? Actually, any information at all would be great! I just need all the help I can get! Anyway, if you have any ideas, please either email me OR reply to this message!                                 Thanks in advance,                                 Scott

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone have information about fishing in Huatulco/Puerto Escondido, Mexico area? I am planning a trip for mid august, but the only problem is, with less then a month left, I still have no idea what to expect. I will only be able to bring a 7/8 weight, and I will probably fish the bays in Huatulco and Puerto Angel….any other hot spots in the area???? I need to know what kind of fish are availible to me, and of course what flies (specific patterns?) or type of flies (shrimp? baitfish?) and what sizes i should tie them in….also handy would be possibly guide recommendations and leader strengths? Actually, any information at all would be great! I just need all the help I can get! Anyway, if you have any ideas, please either email me OR reply to this message!                                Thanks in advance,                                Scott

You can find some information about fishing in Huatulco and Puerto Angel on my web page.  You can start with http://www.eden.com/~tomzap/hfishing.html Tom Penick             Web page:             Austin, Texas            http://www.eden.com/~tomzap

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Question:

My wife and I just took up this wonderful sport, we’re taking a flyfishing class and buying, buying, buying [8 ).  I have a question about rod weight.  We want to fish lakes and streams for trout but also have a desire to fish for steelhead (I used to "crank and cable" angle the mighty fish in the Mad River, CA).  We are leaning toward a 5/6 weight, 9 ft. rod but it is probably too light for steelhead.  On the other hand, if we go to a 6/7 weight, 9 ft. rod will it also be suitable for the lighter fish, and in fact will this weight be heavy enough for steelhead?  We really don’t have enough $$ to be buying two (x two people) rods. Any help in this matter will be greatly appreciated.  I haven’t seen an FAQ on this newsgroup so if it is a FAQ then "Flame on". Thanks in Advance Mark — Mark Hemphill-Haley 1272 Department of Geological Sciences University of Oregon Eugene, Oregon 97403-1272

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I just started on this sport myself.  On the other hand, my friend has some good experience under his belt.  Believe it or not!  he has been using weight 6 with 9 feet in length to catch fish range from pink salmon (not King salmon) to trouts.   He had used it for many years while living in Alaska and didn’t have any problem (may be he hasn’t tell me about it yet) Anyway, it depends on your body frame.  If you have a average body frame say 5′7" and weight about 150, I recommend a rod with weigh 6 and 9′ in length.  This is a normal fly rod for beginners anyway.  One thing for sure, don’t buy any rod shorter than 9 feet because you will end up regretted once you pick up some skill.  Also, those fly rods for steelhead/salmon are quite larger, so it can wear your arm out over a long period of flipping it back and forth. Steve – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My wife and I just took up this wonderful sport, we’re taking a flyfishing class and buying, buying, buying [8 ).  I have a question about rod weight.  We want to fish lakes and streams for trout but also have a desire to fish for steelhead (I used to "crank and cable" angle the mighty fish in the Mad River, CA).  We are leaning toward a 5/6 weight, 9 ft. rod but it is probably too light for steelhead.  On the other hand, if we go to a 6/7 weight, 9 ft. rod will it also be suitable for the lighter fish, and in fact will this weight be heavy enough for steelhead?  We really don’t have enough $$ to be buying two (x two people) rods. Any help in this matter will be greatly appreciated.  I haven’t seen an FAQ on this newsgroup so if it is a FAQ then "Flame on". Thanks in Advance Mark — Mark Hemphill-Haley 1272 Department of Geological Sciences University of Oregon Eugene, Oregon 97403-1272

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A 6-weight is a good multi-purpose rod which you can use for drys as well as streamers.  It will work fine for the smaller trout which prevail in the Sierra Nevada streams, although my "standard" Sierra rod is a 3-weight.  However, you probably cannot get a good compromise if you want to fish for steelhead and trout. — Law Office of John L. Dodd Tustin, CA

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