Question:

Hey all, Just a quick question on the use of the float and fly.  How many of you guys use it, and how have you done?  I just bought a new rod and reel strictly for Float and Fly fishing.  I tie all my own float and fly jigs using Fox hair and Daiichi hooks.  I stick with 1/32 and 1/16 ounce.  So far I have caught a bunch of smallies and about a 6.5lb Channel cat, and of course (if you live on the Winnebago system) some sheepshead. Just thought I would "fish" for comments on the float and fly. Take care all and tight lines, Chris Rennert Oshkosh, WI

Response:

I use it some in cold water, but not a tremendous amount. I’ve caught some nice fish with it — mostly smallies. Never anything huge though. Charlie Nuckols — the man credited with popularizing the technique, if not actually devising it — was a great friend of mine, and a truly awesome smallmouth fisherman. He preached the float ‘n’ fly gospel to me, so I learned it from the best. But I never had the knack for it that he showed. I just bought a new rod and reel strictly for Float and Fly fishing.

9 footer? RichZ

Question:

I may be attending a convention in Mesa, Arizona the last week in March and would like to know if there are any public spots for fly fishing close to Mesa?  If I can’t take my gear, how about areas close by that I could just wander around in?  Haven’t ever been to the southwest and would like to see more than just manicured parks.  Thanks for any information you can provide. Larry We give dogs love we can spare, time we can spare, and room we can spare.  In return, dogs give us their all.  It

Question:

Scot, Thanks for the excellent information. Your advice will weigh heavily in my planning. Tom

Response:

I was thinking about hiking the west end on my first trip. I have read that Washington Creek might be a good stream for brook trout among others. I’m definitely going to make a trip there, primarily to hike and enjoy the wilderness, but….I can’t pass up a chance for some fishing either. So I’m wondering if I should take my fly rod or maybe an ultralight spin outfit instead. Sounds like the streams are small and the banks brushy. Any thoughts on adding a little fishing to a hiking trip on the island? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey Tom, I’ve been going to the island since I was 6(I guess that makes it 22 years now). If you are going to hike the island there are a few good places to give a try. If you are going in your own boat you will find all kinds of possibilities. Either way you will enjoy yourself. Your most common company will be moose, wolves and other smaller creatures. The hike can be tough but the scenery and accomplishment are 100% worth the effort. In the last two years we’ve caught lake trout, coasters(lake-run brook trout), steelhead, chinook salmon, northern pike, walleyes, and whitefish from the waters in and around the island. I can provide more detailed locations if on or off list if you want. Let me know… Scot Zentz Minnesota Anyone ever been to Isle Royale National Park, the island in Lake Superior? It’s full of lakes and streams, but I’m told not a lot of fly fishing going on there.

Response:

Muskie All were offshore. Rainbow and coasters can be caught in the bays of the island as well as lakers. See my other post for a bit more info or email me and I’ll tell you more about specific locations. BTW- Will you be in a boat or hiking? Scot – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  Scot:    Were the Chinook and Steelhead you caught from streams on the island or offshore?   Were the coasters caught in streams?   If so, please let me know,  I was planning a trip there next fall.  —-Muskie

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Tom, The west end is fairly limited on water access. I have heard that the western streams running into the lake have brookies in them but have never wandered down there to investigate. After this years dry summer I wonder how these streams are doing. We hiked the from Windigo to McCargoe(via the Minong Ridge) and then across to Chippewa Harbor. Every stream was virtually dry with some pools of standing water. Lake Desor has brookies in it, Siskiwit has lakers and brookies too, Lake Halloran has big northern, Feldtman has northern and the back of washington harbor has rainbows. You may have more fun if you target the warm water fish on the trip. Most every inland lake is teeming with pike. I had a blast this summer on Chickenbone using a Dahlberg diver and a various other slider/popper and rabbit strip flies. Combine the fishing with the pair of bull moose feeding along the opposite shore and you’d be hard pressed to find a better experience. What I generally do when I hike is bring my flyrod and pack a spinning reel to hang on the rod if I need to. Last year I managed to fit my spinning rod into the tube with the flyrod. You are right about the stream size. Most of them are hop-acrossable and the lower portions are fairly marshy. I know a charter captain who apparently walks in from the mouth of the Big Siskiwit River and does well on brookies. There are many books on the island including a few about the fishing. I think the book "Fishes of Isle Royale" lists the species in every body of water on the island. Below are a couple of links you might like… http://www.isle.royale.national-park.com/ http://www.nps.gov/isro/index.htm http://www.isleroyale.org/ http://www.nps.gov/planning/isro/dgmp/dgmp.htm Hope this helps, Scot – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was thinking about hiking the west end on my first trip. I have read that Washington Creek might be a good stream for brook trout among others. I’m definitely going to make a trip there, primarily to hike and enjoy the wilderness, but….I can’t pass up a chance for some fishing either. So I’m wondering if I should take my fly rod or maybe an ultralight spin outfit instead. Sounds like the streams are small and the banks brushy. Any thoughts on adding a little fishing to a hiking trip on the island? Hey Tom,

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hey Tom, I’ve been going to the island since I was 6(I guess that makes it 22 years now). If you are going to hike the island there are a few good places to give a try. If you are going in your own boat you will find all kinds of possibilities. Either way you will enjoy yourself. Your most common company will be moose, wolves and other smaller creatures. The hike can be tough but the scenery and accomplishment are 100% worth the effort. In the last two years we’ve caught lake trout, coasters(lake-run brook trout), steelhead, chinook salmon, northern pike, walleyes, and whitefish from the waters in and around the island. I can provide more detailed locations if on or off list if you want. Let me know… Scot Zentz Minnesota

 Scot:    Were the Chinook and Steelhead you caught from streams on the island or offshore?     Were the coasters caught in streams?   If so, please let me know,  I was planning a trip there next fall.  —-Muskie

Response:

Anyone ever been to Isle Royale National Park, the island in Lake Superior? It’s full of lakes and streams, but I’m told not a lot of fly fishing going on there.

Response:

Hey Tom, I’ve been going to the island since I was 6(I guess that makes it 22 years now). If you are going to hike the island there are a few good places to give a try. If you are going in your own boat you will find all kinds of possibilities. Either way you will enjoy yourself. Your most common company will be moose, wolves and other smaller creatures. The hike can be tough but the scenery and accomplishment are 100% worth the effort. In the last two years we’ve caught lake trout, coasters(lake-run brook trout), steelhead, chinook salmon, northern pike, walleyes, and whitefish from the waters in and around the island. I can provide more detailed locations if on or off list if you want. Let me know… Scot Zentz Minnesota – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone ever been to Isle Royale National Park, the island in Lake Superior? It’s full of lakes and streams, but I’m told not a lot of fly fishing going on there.

Response:

Question:

Now, what did you expect making a comment like that n a jeep ng…. What a weenie…

Response:

 Lately,  I hear many people who own Jeeps spouting out this phrase:    "You wouldn’t understand man….it’s a Jeep thing!"  Ok.   I guess I don’t really get it.  But I am starting to understand something about " the Jeep thing".

You don’t understand its a Jeep thing. — Its a Jeep thing..You would’t understand. URL: http://the-threshold.org/gallery/jeep                   OR Its an Anoraks thing.. You don’t want to understand URL: http://the-threshold.org/Anorak-Offroad

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 Lately,  I hear many people who own Jeeps spouting… " What thing is it?" asks Jimmy.  " It’s not ANYTHING," says the 4runner driver. "it’s just a damn car." —-Muskie

  that was funny. Sorry guys and gals. I have to be a traitor on this one. I live in a college town. And here the average Jeep driver’s values and experiences have very little in line with me. Unless it’s clearly built or restored, it’s just another car. -ejs

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 Lately,  I hear many people who own Jeeps spouting out this phrase:    "You wouldn’t understand man….it’s a Jeep thing!"  Ok.   I guess I don’t really get it.  But I am starting to understand something about " the Jeep thing". You don’t understand its a Jeep thing.

Is this anything like "alternative music" ? —

Response:

Wow! If it isn’t Muskie the Wonder Troll returning to haunt our newsgroups!   Lately,  I hear many people who own Jeeps spouting out this phrase:   "You wouldn’t understand man….it’s a Jeep thing!"

You still can’t get it right:  "It’s a Jeep thing… you wouldn’t understand" is the phrase. Ok.   I guess I don’t really get it.  But I am starting to understand something about " the Jeep thing". It seems many(not all) Jeepers want to belong to a group of rugged individualists.  They feel that having a rugged Jeep sets them apart from the rest of society and makes them "different" somehow. What is this? Words like "belong"  and "group" and "individualists" really seem to contradict each other don’t they?  It seems many Jeepers want to be different, just like all the different people.

Those that I have seen who have actually bestowed the phrase on their vehicle are generally those who actually take the vehicles off-road, go camping, lead an active life style, toss on a trailer of jet-ski’s or dirt bikes and actually have a life.  These people go to the Jeep Jamboree’s, the Trail Runs, etc.  They are far from ’sheep’ though a few to many people who are following the Jones’s unfortunately do buy them instead of mock-SUV’s like the Explorer. Modems.. the lightning rods of the ’90’s! (sigh) Don’t bother to E-mail.. not using my account.

Response:

How much would an Old Man Emu lift cost on an 86 cherokee?  I am looking for ball park estimates on the ~3" lift reviewed on off-road.com (i think). Also, are there web sources for Old Man Emu ordering? Thanks, jeremiah — 86 cherokee – soon to be a 3.4 L V6!!!!

Response:

Lately,  I hear many people who own Jeeps spouting out this phrase:   "You wouldn’t understand man….it’s a Jeep thing!"

If your idiotic flame bait bothered me at all, you might be right… Motorcycles have the same cadre relationship.  When you’re on a bike or a harley, almost *everybody* waves.  It is no different, and I think anybody who buys a jeep or a bike only for the waves is going to be sorely disappointed. Besides, it IS a JEEP thing, and you CLEARLY DO NOT understand.  at all… jeremiah — 86 cherokee – soon to be a 3.4 L V6!!!!

Response:

few to many people who are following the Jones’s unfortunately do buy them instead of mock-SUV’s like the Explorer.

I for one appreciate all the Yuppie’s buying new cherokees and TJs… I see it as fodder for myself in 5 or 6 years when I’ll be buying a used 99… just think of all those Yuppie jeeps as replacement parts.  never seen the mud, never been bashed over rocks or seen any real duty.  I think its just great. jeremiah — 86 cherokee – soon to be a 3.4 L V6!!!!

Response:

few to many people who are following the Jones’s unfortunately do buy them instead of mock-SUV’s like the Explorer. I for one appreciate all the Yuppie’s buying new cherokees and TJs… I see it as fodder for myself in 5 or 6 years when I’ll be buying a used 99… just think of all those Yuppie jeeps as replacement parts.  never seen the mud, never been bashed over rocks or seen any real duty.  I think its just great.

hehe, I must admit I never thought of it that way.. but I have thought of it as a way to keep the vehicles in production and to keep the prices somewhat down.. on the other hand the high demand has surged what should be an $18-22k vehicle up to nearly $40k.. almost a full half of which is profit for Chrysler. Modems.. the lightning rods of the ’90’s! (sigh) Don’t bother to E-mail.. not using my account.

Response:

HUH?! Where the hell is your point? Meanwhile, if you don’t understand – don’t bother trying.  Obviously, you don’t own a Jeep, so there’s your first obstacle.  The next is being a brand-loyal four-wheeler, where everybody who doesn’t drive you’re particular make of vehicle is pond-scum.  And finally, you’re a little dissatisfied with whatever make of vehicle you’re driving (and a little envious of a Jeep) to take issue with something you don’t or want to understand.  Get a life. I do think that we, as four-wheelers, need to recognize all makes and models as brethren and form an even larger following with a much more accurate motto:  "It’s a 4×4 thing…you asphalt-bound grocery-getters certainly wouldn’t understand."  Anybody with a purpose-built, fill-tilt-boogie off road rig (no matter what it is) gets a wave and nod-of-approval from me. Until then, it’s just us Jeepers… Eric ‘80 CJ-7 – 4" Pro Comp, 33×15.50 Swampers, and way too many other things to mention, ‘85 Nissan King Cab 4×4 – 31×10.50 AT’s, no lift, gets me to work and pulls the boat. — Opinions, everybody’s got one of those, too. You know how to Reply…

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Muskie,        Just when we thought Mr. Troll himself had finally gone away it slithers back in… I have a jeep because I always wanted one and I could care less who else has one. The jeep wave is a tradition, not really a club thing.  I know, you don’t get it. What does "It’s a jeep thing" mean?  It’s a diverse cultural association.  I think you exemplify a jeep cultural disassociation when you wrote "it’s just a d*** car."  That’s the difference.  I doubt you’re bright enough to figure it out though. Don To avoid a flame war I must add.  I am biased to jeeps but there are other manufacturers that build excellent vehicles.  This retort is aimed specifically at Muskie and not other vehicle afficianados. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  Lately,  I hear many people who own Jeeps spouting out this phrase:    "You wouldn’t understand man….it’s a Jeep thing!"  Ok.   I guess I don’t really get it.  But I am starting to understand something about " the Jeep thing".  It seems many(not all) Jeepers want to belong to a group of rugged  individualists.  They feel that having a rugged Jeep sets them apart  from the rest of society and makes them "different" somehow.  What is this? Words like "belong"  and "group" and "individualists" really seem to contradict each other don’t they?  It seems many Jeepers want to be different, just like all the different people. <really long boring story snipped   Meanwhile, Jimmy is on a nearby forest road, about to park at a turnoff near a fishing stream.  Jimmy drives a Chevy 4×4 full size. He parks his rig and takes his 6 foot fly rod case out of the bed, and unloads his gear.  A man in a toyota 4runner drives by and waves. The man in the 4runner turns around to talk to the man about the fishing.    " How do you like the full size chevy?"  asks the 4runner driver.  " I like it just fine". Jimmy responds.  " how do you like your 4runner?" asks jimmy.   " I like it just fine", says the 4runner driver.   " What thing is it?" asks Jimmy.  " It’s not ANYTHING," says the 4runner driver. "it’s just a damn car." —-Muskie

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Well, when I see somebody in a 90-96 300ZX I certainly wave… Alex

[big snip]

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No that would be a RAV4, CRV, etc… No one knows what the hell it is and what purpose it serves!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  Lately,  I hear many people who own Jeeps spouting out this phrase:    "You wouldn’t understand man….it’s a Jeep thing!"  Ok.   I guess I don’t really get it.  But I am starting to understand something about " the Jeep thing". You don’t understand its a Jeep thing. Is this anything like "alternative music" ? —

Response:

 The only so called "jeepers" who really know what the "jeep thing" is, are the one’s who actually see the logic behind driving in the rain with a bikini and no doors as everyone looks at you thinking "you idiot, youre getting wet"!  I’ll share that logic with you too……It’s FUN!!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Lately,  I hear many people who own Jeeps spouting out this phrase:   "You wouldn’t understand man….it’s a Jeep thing!" Ok.   I guess I don’t really get it.  But I am starting to understand something about " the Jeep thing". It seems many(not all) Jeepers want to belong to a group of rugged individualists.  They feel that having a rugged Jeep sets them apart from the rest of society and makes them "different" somehow. What is this? Words like "belong"  and "group" and "individualists" really seem to contradict each other don’t they?  It seems many Jeepers want to be different, just like all the different people. Here comes Barbi Anne, driving her new pink Jeep onto the gravel national forest road. Ken is heading her way in his new blue Jeep, and he waves the "jeep wave" to Barbi. Barbi waves back, smiling and giggling.  "I really belong" , thinks Barbi. " I really belong to a group of people that like me for my automobile purchase.  I feel really good about that."   Barbi Anne smiles a faint smile and continues down the road.  A few seconds later, Outback Johnny passes Barbi Anne in his new green Jeep, and waves. Barbi Anne waves back. Continuing down the road, Barbi Anne responds to 34 waves from Jeepers.  " It’s a Jeep thing!"  they all yell at her. " It’s a Jeep thing!" Further down the road, Barbi Anne’s progress is temporarily halted by a herd of sheep crossing the road to greener pastures. She listens to their bleating and babbling, and observes how they all huddle together. "baaaaa…..baaaaaaaaa…bleeeeeeeet…….baaaaaaaaa".  The sheep huddle even closer across the road. " baaaaaaaa…its a jeep thing….. ……bleeeeeettttt."   The sheep babble even louder, then slowly pass over a low hill on the horizon.   Barbi Anne drives her Jeep down the road, glad that she was pressured by friends to belong to the "Jeep Thing".  Meanwhile, Jimmy is on a nearby forest road, about to park at a turnoff near a fishing stream.  Jimmy drives a Chevy 4×4 full size. He parks his rig and takes his 6 foot fly rod case out of the bed, and unloads his gear.  A man in a toyota 4runner drives by and waves. The man in the 4runner turns around to talk to the man about the fishing.    " How do you like the full size chevy?"  asks the 4runner driver.  " I like it just fine". Jimmy responds. " how do you like your 4runner?" asks jimmy.   " I like it just fine", says the 4runner driver.  " What thing is it?" asks Jimmy.  " It’s not ANYTHING," says the 4runner driver. "it’s just a damn car." —-Muskie

Response:

Wow, I guess you don’t understand.  I for one have always loved the Wrangler, and I just bought my 98 TJ in June(having no knowledge of the "Jeep Thing" or the waves I would get from fellow Jeepers)  I actually had to ask a friend who owns a YJ about the wave….he told me H wasn’t sure about it either.  As soon as I hit 1500 miles, I was off the pavement, with the top and the door removed.  I have no problem with any brand of 4X4, although I like some less than others  But honestly, I have never seen another group of drivers as friendly with those they don’t know or as willing to help out when someone needs it.  I’ve taken my stock(so far) jeep a few places a little above the level I should, and the one time I got stuck, I was still amazed how well it did. Ok, no more rambling…..I’m sure you’re sick of me by now

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I had a jeep and I loved it thy are good for mud raceing and for what ever ** HAVE A NICE DAY LARRY & KAREN **

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The jeeps I drove for many years were OD, that’s a different thing. The only thing now is Jeeps have become another temporary fad for the brtaibnless yuppies. This too soon will pass and jeeps will go back to being driven by real people who like them for what they are instead of a phoney status symbol. I can wait. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  Lately,  I hear many people who own Jeeps spouting out this phrase:    "You wouldn’t understand man….it’s a Jeep thing!"  Ok.   I guess I don’t really get it.  But I am starting to understand something about " the Jeep thing".  It seems many(not all) Jeepers want to belong to a group of rugged  individualists.  They feel that having a rugged Jeep sets them apart  from the rest of society and makes them "different" somehow.  What is this? Words like "belong"  and "group" and "individualists" really seem to contradict each other don’t they?  It seems many Jeepers want to be different, just like all the different people.  Here comes Barbi Anne, driving her new pink Jeep onto the gravel national forest road. Ken is heading her way in his new blue Jeep,  and he waves the "jeep wave" to Barbi. Barbi waves back, smiling and giggling.  "I really belong" , thinks Barbi. " I really belong to a group of people that like me for my automobile purchase.  I feel really good about that."   Barbi Anne smiles a faint smile and continues down the road.  A few seconds later, Outback Johnny passes Barbi Anne in his new green Jeep, and waves. Barbi Anne waves back.  Continuing down the road, Barbi Anne responds to 34 waves from Jeepers.   " It’s a Jeep thing!"  they all yell at her. " It’s a Jeep thing!"  Further down the road, Barbi Anne’s progress is temporarily halted by a herd of sheep crossing the road to greener pastures. She listens to their bleating and babbling, and observes how they all huddle together.  "baaaaa…..baaaaaaaaa…bleeeeeeeet…….baaaaaaaaa".  The sheep  huddle even closer across the road. " baaaaaaaa…its a jeep thing….. ……bleeeeeettttt."   The sheep babble even louder, then slowly pass over a low hill on the horizon.   Barbi Anne drives her Jeep down the road, glad that she was pressured by friends to belong to the "Jeep Thing".   Meanwhile, Jimmy is on a nearby forest road, about to park at a turnoff near a fishing stream.  Jimmy drives a Chevy 4×4 full size. He parks his rig and takes his 6 foot fly rod case out of the bed, and unloads his gear.  A man in a toyota 4runner drives by and waves. The man in the 4runner turns around to talk to the man about the fishing.    " How do you like the full size chevy?"  asks the 4runner driver.  " I like it just fine". Jimmy responds.  " how do you like your 4runner?" asks jimmy.   " I like it just fine", says the 4runner driver.   " What thing is it?" asks Jimmy.  " It’s not ANYTHING," says the 4runner driver. "it’s just a damn car." —-Muskie

Response:

few to many people who are following the Jones’s unfortunately do buy them instead of mock-SUV’s like the Explorer. I for one appreciate all the Yuppie’s buying new cherokees and TJs… I see it as fodder for myself in 5 or 6 years when I’ll be buying a used 99… just think of all those Yuppie jeeps as replacement parts.  never seen the mud, never been bashed over rocks or seen any real duty.  I think its just great.

I agree with this.  The only problem is that it seems a number of the new Jeeps are automatics.  Frankly, that’s sacrilege! — Cheers…Craig — Good manners and bad breath get you nowhere – Elvis Costello — It’s no use to blame the looking glass if your face is awry – S.J. Perelman — People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don’t realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world – Calvin (& Hobbes)

Response:

The only so called "jeepers" who really know what the "jeep thing" is, are the one’s who actually see the logic behind driving in the rain with a bikini and no doors as everyone looks at you thinking "you idiot, youre getting wet"!  I’ll share that logic with you too……It’s FUN!!!

I often get asked if my Miata is a rental since I usually leave the top down unless it is absolutely pouring or I’m in stop/go traffic. Others don’t understand that Jeeps are waterproofed from the get-go, right down to a pair of drain holes in the floorboards! Ever wonder why most CJ and Wrangler variants didn’t even come with carpetting on the floors? Too bad it’s a hassle to take the doors off and front window down now.. (sigh) Modems.. the lightning rods of the ’90’s! (sigh) Don’t bother to E-mail.. not using my account.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve only had my ‘90 YJ for about 2years but …….here’s my two cents….about the "Its a jeep thing" motto I was a Boy Scout growing up, did alot of camping every summer, I was taught to respect nature, be resourceful, prepared, efficient while also being simple and functional. IMHO jeeps fit in very smoothly w/ my yuppie who only buys a jeep for the "image", and never takes it off roading….what a waste….. I dont remember where I read it, but another jeep owner made the observation that when cruising down the road/trail jeep owners inevitably always nod/wave/check out each others jeep, but you hardly ever/never see other people check out each others Metro/Toyota/Caprice/whatever……Jeeps have a tradition and jeep owners who humbly acknowledge this are the coolest. People who live by the "Its a Jeep thing motto", stop to help others out, dont drive recklessly, etc…..I think I’ll quit my rambling now……

Thank you for stating so eloquently what a lot of us are all about! Btw, I’m lucky enough to be a member of two very distinct ‘families’, the Jeep Family (by way of a lightly modded ‘93 ZJ V8 which has nearly 1/3rd of it’s 62,000 miles off road!) and the Miata club which, at least in off-road deprived Florida, is the more active and certainly more friendly of the two.  I also fall under the helping hand column. Heck, it was only Friday afternoon that I helped a poor lady push her out of gas car half a mile down the road to get it off of the worst part of the freeway.  :) You’re right.. some people just don’t get it. Modems.. the lightning rods of the ’90’s! (sigh) Don’t bother to E-mail.. not using my account.

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damn muskie that was good. i haven`t had such a good laugh in a long time . the thoughts of you playing on the floor with your barbie & ken dolls in jeeps cracked me up. could you entertain us with something about " its a 4×4 thing "  or  " its a harley thing "  or maybe a tough one like " its a man thing " ?  but please dont use your ken & barbie dolls again, i couldn`t stand the laughter. Jim

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<excellent commentary snipped Some Jeep drivers understand that.  Nothing against Toyotas or Chevys or any other vehicle or the people that driver them…it’s just a Jeep thing.

Here’s one hint: Why does everyone in a CRV, Rav-4, Tracker, Sidekick, Samurai, etc. always say "We’ll take my Jeep" but no one in a Jeep would ever say "We’ll take my CRV, etc."? There is only one Jeep. Modems.. the lightning rods of the ’90’s! (sigh) Don’t bother to E-mail.. not using my account.

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   "You wouldn’t understand man….it’s a Jeep thing!"  Ok.   I guess I don’t really get it.  But I am starting to understand something about " the Jeep thing".  It seems many(not all) Jeepers want to belong to a group of rugged  individualists.  They feel that having a rugged Jeep sets them apart  from the rest of society and makes them "different" somehow.  What is this? Words like "belong"  and "group" and "individualists" really seem to contradict each other don’t they?  It seems many Jeepers want to be different, just like all the different people.

No, it’s true that you don’t understand but that’s okay. The sheep that you’re referring to might be the demographic majority of Jeep drivers, but those are not the people who wave at each other and say "It’s a Jeep thing."  The "Jeep thing" element, you might find, has more disdain for "sorority Jeeps," "college Jeeps," "soccer mom Jeeps," "street jeeps" and "yuppie Jeeps" than anybody. Some people like F-14s and others would rather ride a P-38 or a P-51. Some people don’t know what a P-38 is, but they’ve seen Top Gun so they think they’re aviation enthusiasts. There are those that want to belong to a group of rugged individualists, and there are those that just do.  (I’ll be modest here as I can, but as a pilot, rock singer, writer, computer geek, civil war reenactor and active environmentalist, I might not be rugged but I’m individualist…) Jeep was the first word I learned to spell, and I promised by grandfather when I was three that I would buy him a Jeep.  Image had nothing to do with it.  My oldest toy, a 1960s Tonka Jeep CJ3B, sits on my desk at work. Raise your hand if you had an infatuation with Nissan when you were three. The thing is, if you go over to the Jeep newsgroup, you’ll see that I’m not an exception…I’m average.  Probably less that average if you pay attention to the complexity of knowledge of their vehicle that some people there have.  You’ll also notice their head spin to look when they see a Willys other other vintage Jeep.  It has nothing to do with the driver. Don’t think about the guy behind the wheel…think of the Jeep. Regardless of the year, a Jeep stripped of its hard top and doors is a classic.  If you’ve ever driven through the country, tackled an ominous "intermediate" 4×4 trail with a stock Jeep or even just cruised the highway with the top off on a sunny day, you understand.  If you’ve ever pulled off the side of the road on an August evening and looked straight up at a meteor shower, you’re getting there.   If you’ve ever yanked a built-up vehicle out of a mudhole or driven your stock Jeep around a 4×4 bogged down on a snow-covered hill, you’re there. Not to trash other 4×4s…I’ve seen old Landcruisers and a heavily-modified Samurai command respect where lesser drivers in Jeeps failed…but why drive a flimsy, overpriced derivative when you can drive the real thing?   There’s just nothing like climbing up into an old CJ and staring down the short nose.  It has the feel of an old warbird…the sound of the engine, the smell of the Jeep, the feeling that you’ve strapped on wheels. It’s not the fault of Jeep drivers that these sturdy classics appear to have gone soft, but while middle America drives around the suburb in the Jeep equivalent of a sports car, those of us die-hard Jeep fans who have driven the new TJs have come to appreciate that under the cloth and plastic interior there is still a bad-ass trail truck that isn’t laden down with mystery parts and strange devices that prevent us from getting under them and making our own modifications. Some Jeep drivers understand that.  Nothing against Toyotas or Chevys or any other vehicle or the people that driver them…it’s just a Jeep thing. Chris Gattman              |  "..And the sky is humming,

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I’ve only had my ‘90 YJ for about 2years but …….here’s my two cents….about the "Its a jeep thing" motto I was a Boy Scout growing up, did alot of camping every summer, I was taught to respect nature, be resourceful, prepared, efficient while also being simple and functional. IMHO jeeps fit in very smoothly w/ my yuppie who only buys a jeep for the "image", and never takes it off roading….what a waste….. I dont remember where I read it, but another jeep owner made the observation that when cruising down the road/trail jeep owners inevitably always nod/wave/check out each others jeep, but you hardly ever/never see other people check out each others Metro/Toyota/Caprice/whatever……Jeeps have a tradition and jeep owners who humbly acknowledge this are the coolest. People who live by the "Its a Jeep thing motto", stop to help others out, dont drive recklessly, etc…..I think I’ll quit my rambling now…… –jason

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 Lately,  I hear many people who own Jeeps spouting out this phrase:    "You wouldn’t understand man….it’s a Jeep thing!"  Ok.   I guess I don’t really get it.  But I am starting to understand something about " the Jeep thing".  It seems many(not all) Jeepers want to belong to a group of rugged  individualists.  They feel that having a rugged Jeep sets them apart  from the rest of society and makes them "different" somehow.  What is this? Words like "belong"  and "group" and "individualists" really seem to contradict each other don’t they?  It seems many Jeepers want to be different, just like all the different people.  Here comes Barbi Anne, driving her new pink Jeep onto the gravel national forest road. Ken is heading her way in his new blue Jeep,  and he waves the "jeep wave" to Barbi. Barbi waves back, smiling and giggling.  "I really belong" , thinks Barbi. " I really belong to a group of people that like me for my automobile purchase.  I feel really good about that."   Barbi Anne smiles a faint smile and continues down the road.  A few seconds later, Outback Johnny passes Barbi Anne in his new green Jeep, and waves. Barbi Anne waves back.  Continuing down the road, Barbi Anne responds to 34 waves from Jeepers.   " It’s a Jeep thing!"  they all yell at her. " It’s a Jeep thing!"  Further down the road, Barbi Anne’s progress is temporarily halted by a herd of sheep crossing the road to greener pastures. She listens to their bleating and babbling, and observes how they all huddle together.  "baaaaa…..baaaaaaaaa…bleeeeeeeet…….baaaaaaaaa".  The sheep  huddle even closer across the road. " baaaaaaaa…its a jeep thing….. ……bleeeeeettttt."   The sheep babble even louder, then slowly pass over a low hill on the horizon.   Barbi Anne drives her Jeep down the road, glad that she was pressured by friends to belong to the "Jeep Thing".   Meanwhile, Jimmy is on a nearby forest road, about to park at a turnoff near a fishing stream.  Jimmy drives a Chevy 4×4 full size. He parks his rig and takes his 6 foot fly rod case out of the bed, and unloads his gear.  A man in a toyota 4runner drives by and waves. The man in the 4runner turns around to talk to the man about the fishing.    " How do you like the full size chevy?"  asks the 4runner driver.  " I like it just fine". Jimmy responds.  " how do you like your 4runner?" asks jimmy.   " I like it just fine", says the 4runner driver.     " What thing is it?" asks Jimmy.  " It’s not ANYTHING," says the 4runner driver. "it’s just a damn car." —-Muskie

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Question:

My vet says dogs are just as susceptible to sun burn and sun or heat stroke and dehydration as humans and this has discouraged me from persuading my dog to come paddling. Her attitude to water is like your Sheltie’s so it’s been easy. But I’ve often wondered how paddlers, trippers and fishers especially, who may be out on the water in the blazing sun for hours under their Tilley hats, protect their dogs from that blazing sun. I think I’d be almost as worried about this as the PFD and recovery after capsize things. Any opinions, experience here? Lyle Fairfield – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a tandem opened kayak that i usually paddle solo.  Do lots of touring and lake fishing.  My new partner is a redhead, fairly short hair, and her name is Maggie.  She loves to go fishing, and i have a hard time keeping her in the boat.  She is about 12 years old in people years, and is a border collie/Chow mix.  My other pooch, a sheltie, hates and is deathly afraid of water; i only took her out once.  Just when i was trying to justify a smaller boat, a Necky Santa Cruz, this happens.  Now i gotta go buy a Doggie PFD, and maybe a Doggie backpack. Sheese, i wonder what it’ll be like trying to get a water-laiden dog back in the boat….  I best try this out in the shallows.

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My vet says dogs are just as susceptible to sun burn and sun or heat stroke and dehydration as humans and this has discouraged me from persuading my dog to come paddling. Her attitude to water is like your Sheltie’s so it’s been easy. But I’ve often wondered how paddlers, trippers and fishers especially, who may be out on the water in the blazing sun for hours under their Tilley hats, protect their dogs from that blazing sun. I think I’d be almost as worried about this as the PFD and recovery after capsize things. Any opinions, experience here?

She just had her first vet check-up today.  She is A-Okay, and more like 18 years old, in people terms.  I asked him about bringing her out in the kayak for several hours on end.  He said he knows some people who bring their dogs out boating.  He stated i needed to be prepared to supply her with more drinking water than myself, and with a coat like hers, sunburn isn’t a problem.  I was overjoyed.  He also reccommended trying out a harness for her while in the boat, since it’ll be easier to get her back in the boat if she jumps ship.  She’s about 45 pounds.

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I have a tandem opened kayak that i usually paddle solo.  Do lots of touring and lake fishing.  My new partner is a redhead, fairly short hair, and her name is Maggie.  She loves to go fishing, and i have a hard time

This time out she didn’t fair so well, unfortunately.  I’ve had a couple folks email me and ask me questions, and give good advice.  So for anyone who’s considering this for the first time, read on.  Since i wanted her in the front of the boat and me in the rear, i  had her on a leash that was attached to the boat.  I made sure the leash was long enough so if she went swimming, i could grab her Doggie PFD’s handle.  Well, that’s where i screwed up.  It ends up her four-foot long leash isn’t nearly long enough so when she went swimming, i couldn’t reach her from the back of the boat.  It was pathetic and she was upset.  After a minute or so i did manage to get her back in. On the good side, she did enjoy the ducks and watching the Osprey go fishing; addtionnally, each fly or ’skeeter perked her right up as well!  She’d climb on the bow looking just like a hood ornament, or one of them bow ornament-things on large ships. That was until she freaked and just had to get outta the boat.  Though i don’t think she’s spoiled on the idea just yet.  Next time we’ll either have no leash, or a much longer one, and it’ll be attached to her PFD and not otherwise.  That handle on her PFD is truely a great idea too.

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I have a tandem opened kayak that i usually paddle solo.  Do lots of touring and lake fishing.  My new partner is a redhead, fairly short hair, and her name is Maggie.  She loves to go fishing, and i have a hard time keeping her in the boat.  She is about 12 years old in people years, and is a border collie/Chow mix.  My other pooch, a sheltie, hates and is deathly afraid of water; i only took her out once.  Just when i was trying to justify a smaller boat, a Necky Santa Cruz, this happens.  Now i gotta go buy a Doggie PFD, and maybe a Doggie backpack. Sheese, i wonder what it’ll be like trying to get a water-laiden dog back in the boat….  I best try this out in the shallows.

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Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hi group I’ll probably get "blasted" by folks in the group but regarding ice in your rod guides: Has anyone tried PAM vegetable cooking spray? I’ve used it for several years and have at least convinced myself less ice forms in the guides. It does make the rod and line kind of greasy so I wash the rod and line when I get home from a trip and treat the fly line with a line conditioner. Yes, I also place the rod in the water to melt the ice however I think less ice forms using the PAM approach. Now I wonder if the fish like the butter flavor better or the olive oil flavor? (grin) — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

stockers like the butter flavour while wild fish go for olive oil! 8^) Ralph H

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Hi group I’ll probably get "blasted" by folks in the group but regarding ice in your rod guides: Has anyone tried PAM vegetable cooking spray? I’ve used it for several years and have at least convinced myself less ice forms in the guides. It does make the rod and line kind of greasy so I wash the rod and line when I get home from a trip and treat the fly line with a line conditioner. Yes, I also place the rod in the water to melt the ice however I think less ice forms using the PAM approach. Now I wonder if the fish like the butter flavor better or the olive oil flavor? (grin) — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

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: Hi group : I’ll probably get "blasted" by folks in the group but regarding ice in : your rod guides: Has anyone tried PAM vegetable cooking spray? I’ve used : it for several years and have at least convinced myself less ice forms in : the guides. It does make the rod and line kind of greasy so I wash the : rod and line when I get home from a trip and treat the fly line with a : line conditioner. Why not?  It makes sense that the oil would displace the water some so that ice would not form and build up as quickly. It should not hurt the line, although the oil will make it pick up dirt more quickly. Try Dynaglide!  I am looking at a can of it right now, and it CAN be sprayed directly onto the flyline!  It may work out better than Pam. : Yes, I also place the rod in the water to melt the ice however I think : less ice forms using the PAM approach. : Now I wonder if the fish like the butter flavor better or the olive oil : flavor? (grin) This fisherman likes the olive oil flavor better!  A good way cook trout is to spray it with Pam and grill it directly over coals, or a gas grill. Very tasty, and no skillet to clean! — Jon Porter

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Now I wonder if the fish like the butter flavor better or the olive oil flavor? (grin)

Al: From all indications the fish like the "butter" flavor the best! roflmao Joe

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I’ll probably get "blasted" by folks in the group but regarding ice in your rod guides: Has anyone tried PAM vegetable cooking spray?

Living and fishing near the Great Lakes, ice in the guides is sort of a way of life (those seasons where I can actually FISH during the winter – unlike this year ). The only really effective solution we have found to icing guides is to build rods with oversized guides and tiptops. It certainly does not prevent the icing, but it dramatically increases the number of casts we can make before de-icing is required. My friends and I have tried all sorts of things to prevent icing, and none have really been worth the bother (or the risk to our tackle). The change to our tackle has made the bigget difference (especially the tiptop and stripping guides). Bob Petti Endwell, NY

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Question:

: for the amount used the sg doesn’t count. Isn’t it more fun fishing than : being scientific? Keep em dry, Ummm…. not always.  But then I’m a geek. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

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Question for Mr "Gink":  Is there any reason (physical, not political) that I shouldn’t use Gink as a fly-line dressing?  Will it corode the line? — -Wayne Trzyna

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Gink keeps it up! I’ll have to remember that next time I pay a visit to Cottonwood ranch.

Aha!  We’ve discovered the secret ingrediant:  KY Jelly. — -Wayne Trzyna

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: : GINK…has a specific gravity of .78 the density of water. : : FYI, pure fresh water has a specific gravity of 1.00, and sea water : averages 1.025. Now the question everyone is, What’s the specific : gravity of Albolene? : — : Gary A. Soucie – writer, editor, angler : TEL 1-301-322-8373;  FAX 1-301-322-4329 : 3007 Crest Ave., Cheverly, MD 20785 USA Gary, Hi,    I don’t think it matters. It works well. A drawback, if any, may be the low liquification temperature. I noticed yesterday that at body temperature, 98.6 deg F, it was a thin film not solid as it comes from the container. I guess the other floatants (like Al Beatty has) have higher melting/liquification temperatures.    One thing for sure is that water doesn’t like it, which is the property that makes flies float. Keep em dry, Bob — lukn4fish Bob Madden San Jose, Ca

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GINK…has a specific gravity of .78 the density of water. FYI, pure fresh water has a specific gravity of 1.00, and sea water averages 1.025. But the question everyone wants answered is, What’s the chemical difference between Gink and albolene? — Gary A. Soucie – writer, editor, angler TEL 1-301-322-8373;  FAX 1-301-322-4329 3007 Crest Ave., Cheverly, MD 20785 USA

As different as a model A Ford is to a Jet Fighter.  If I wanted to be spilling out my guts regarding what my life’s work is all about I’d done it years ago but the secret formulations of GINK is patented and has nothing to do with whatever else you believe works.  What GINK is:  Its a dry fly dressing invented by a fly fishermen for fly fishermen. Remember, all other dry fly dressings and/or sinks are PLAGARIZED products from other industrial sources which are then forced onto the fishing establishment as working enities.  ALL MY PRODUCTS are original inventions Mr. Soucie.  If you want to use silicone, soaps, bear or goose grease dissolved with carbontetroclorhide and ruin your heart, or if you want to use perfumed cosmetics which you’re proposing and call it romancing the fly . . . be our guest. The differences are very great.  Gink is gink and it is MUCH, much better than old, obsolete albolene.  Albo absorbs tremendous amouts of water, its viscosity is wrong and its used to remove makeup from actor’s faces (primarily)  What albo is not, it is not a dry fly dressing.  At least not anywhere as great as GEHRKE’S GINK is.  And frankly Mr Soucie, nothing else in the world is either. Gink keeps it up. George Gehrke/Mr. Gink

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I plopped my trusty hydrometer into my tub of Albolene and it just layed there. Any chemists out there that can tell me what I’m doing wrong? John Nesselrode Shawnee, KS

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I soak my dries in a "permanent" treatment right after I tie them.  Stuff is called Fly Dry or something like that; probably Scotchgard.  Works pretty well.  If they start to sink, a few false casts solve the problem.  If they get slimed, dry floatant gets ‘em up again.  Not as permanent as the manufacturer suggests, but still a lot easier than dealing with floatant paste on a cold morning.   Haven’t used Gink.  Probably a fine product, but I’m wary of liquid floatants, given their tendency to leak in the vest pocket. Charlie Quinton

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Gink keeps it up! Aha!  We’ve discovered the secret ingrediant:  KY Jelly. — -Wayne Trzyna

No, no, Wayne.  You’re mistaken.  K-Y jelly gets it IN!  Keeping it in and UP is another question.  Not sure about Gink in that regard, but I’ve found that a couple of belts of sour mash pretty makes it hard (difficult?) to get down. Stan

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: :   I read this to say that Gink is roughly 3/4’s  the "density" of : water. Which make it lighter than water, therefore it floats. (FYI) : :         Yes, if Gink has a specific gravity of 0.78 it ought to float flies : very well. It seems strange, though, that Mr. Gink doesn’t know how his : conconcoction’s specific gravity compares to that of water. :         I don’t even know what Albolene is, but the name keeps popping up on : the thread. A simple, "Gink is not Albolene, Albolene is not Gink," This is good stuff. What if these products _are_ heaver than water, but their properties are such that they easily coat the hackel and hair fibers such the total weight is only increased a miniscual amount. The fact that good H2O doesnt like this material causes them to float really well (and for some time). Some guides I’ve talked to use Albolene and they say it works well. Heck, for the amount used the sg doesn’t count. Isn’t it more fun fishing than being scientific? Keep em dry, Bob — lukn4fish Bob Madden San Jose, Ca

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GINK…has a specific gravity of .78 the density of water. FYI, pure fresh water has a specific gravity of 1.00, and sea water averages 1.025. Now the question everyone is, What’s the specific gravity of Albolene? — Gary A. Soucie – writer, editor, angler TEL 1-301-322-8373;  FAX 1-301-322-4329 3007 Crest Ave., Cheverly, MD 20785 USA

  I read this to say that Gink is roughly 3/4’s  the "density" of water. Which make it lighter than water, therefore it floats. (FYI)   Harry

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  I read this to say that Gink is roughly 3/4’s  the "density" of water. Which make it lighter than water, therefore it floats. (FYI)

        Yes, if Gink has a specific gravity of 0.78 it ought to float flies very well. It seems strange, though, that Mr. Gink doesn’t know how his conconcoction’s specific gravity compares to that of water.         I don’t even know what Albolene is, but the name keeps popping up on the thread. A simple, "Gink is not Albolene, Albolene is not Gink," would have sufficed, but instead Mr. Gink went into one of his patented rages. He’s certainly a poor spokesman for his product. — Gary A. Soucie – writer, editor, angler TEL 1-301-322-8373;  FAX 1-301-322-4329 3007 Crest Ave., Cheverly, MD 20785 USA

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   Yes, if Gink has a specific gravity of 0.78 it ought to float flies very well. It seems strange, though, that Mr. Gink doesn’t know how his conconcoction’s specific gravity compares to that of water.

I think he said Gink has a specific gravity of .78 _compared_ to water (which is 1.00 as you point out). The english language is often imprecise. FWIW. Charlie…

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: : : : Gink keeps it up. : : George Gehrke/Mr. Gink Ok Dr George, but don’t flash it. Just let it float. Keep em dry, Bob (tryin to beat T-Bone to the floatant) — lukn4fish Bob Madden San Jose, Ca

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snip BTW, I raised Tim’s issue over a year ago without a nibble. How come we don’t worry about all the floatant in the water?

Rick, At this point I think we’d be doing more worrying than fishing. Ross Wilson

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – GINK…has a specific gravity of .78 the density of water. FYI, pure fresh water has a specific gravity of 1.00, and sea water averages 1.025. But the question everyone wants answered is, What’s the chemical difference between Gink and albolene? — Gary A. Soucie – writer, editor, angler TEL 1-301-322-8373;  FAX 1-301-322-4329 3007 Crest Ave., Cheverly, MD 20785 USA As different as a model A Ford is to a Jet Fighter.  If I wanted to be spilling out my guts regarding what my life’s work is all about I’d done it years ago but the secret formulations of GINK is patented and has nothing to do with whatever else you believe works.  What GINK is:  Its a dry fly dressing invented by a fly fishermen for fly fishermen. Remember, all other dry fly dressings and/or sinks are PLAGARIZED products from other industrial sources which are then forced onto the fishing establishment as working enities.  ALL MY PRODUCTS are original inventions Mr. Soucie.  If you want to use silicone, soaps, bear or goose grease dissolved with carbontetroclorhide and ruin your heart, or if you want to use perfumed cosmetics which you’re proposing and call it romancing the fly . . . be our guest. The differences are very great.  Gink is gink and it is MUCH, much better than old, obsolete albolene.  Albo absorbs tremendous amouts of water, its viscosity is wrong and its used to remove makeup from actor’s faces (primarily)  What albo is not, it is not a dry fly dressing.  At least not anywhere as great as GEHRKE’S GINK is.  And frankly Mr Soucie, nothing else in the world is either. Gink keeps it up. George Gehrke/Mr. Gink

That’s atellin’ ‘em George. Les

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GINK…has a specific gravity of .78 the density of water.

FYI, pure fresh water has a specific gravity of 1.00, and sea water averages 1.025. Now the question everyone is, What’s the specific gravity of albolene? — Gary A. Soucie – writer, editor, angler TEL 1-301-322-8373;  FAX 1-301-322-4329 3007 Crest Ave., Cheverly, MD 20785 USA

Response:

GINK…has a specific gravity of .78 the density of water.

FYI, pure fresh water has a specific gravity of 1.00, and sea water averages 1.025. Now the question everyone is, What’s the specific gravity of Albolene? — Gary A. Soucie – writer, editor, angler TEL 1-301-322-8373;  FAX 1-301-322-4329 3007 Crest Ave., Cheverly, MD 20785 USA

Response:

GINK…has a specific gravity of .78 the density of water.

FYI, pure fresh water has a specific gravity of 1.00, and sea water averages 1.025. But the question everyone wants answered is, What’s the chemical difference between Gink and albolene? — Gary A. Soucie – writer, editor, angler TEL 1-301-322-8373;  FAX 1-301-322-4329 3007 Crest Ave., Cheverly, MD 20785 USA

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world’s first COMMERCIAL dry fly dressing to float a fly for more than one float.  In fact, it does it better even today than any other dressing in the world and will usually float a dry fly until the owner changes it or loses it . . . more often than not. The main point is, it works!  It works better than any other competitor’s efforts i the entire world.

Does anyone have the article someone posted awhile back which compared several different brands of floatants?   And that . . . in itself, is another story I might tell one day.  How it all came about.

I, for one, would be interested in hearing it.  For one thing, I’d like to know why it’s called "Gink". Gink keeps it up!

I’ll have to remember that next time I pay a visit to Cottonwood ranch. — John Fereira Isis Distributed Systems – Ithaca, NY

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It’s probably the same stuff as any other fly floatant.  I’m sure I’ll be corrected if I’m wrong, but I believe the reason floatant works is becasue it keeps the water off the fly… and anything that does that will gum up a gill, too.  BTW, I raised Tim’s issue over a year ago without a nibble. How come we don’t worry about all the floatant in the water?

Maybe environmental authorities would if they actually had people that fished. Coast Guard regulations require the reporting of a "visible sheen" on the water.  Some states’ environmental release reporting statutes and regulations prohibit, or require reporting of, any release, no matter what the quantity, of a listed hazardous substance to the environment.  Remember that post about not seeing game wardens?  Wait until the Coast Guard hands you a citation for the sheen coming from that floating fly on the end of your line and the state wants $10,000 a day for the failure to report the same "release".  Hope this doesn’t start Timbo on a new catch and "release" post fest! Musconet

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: the fly for long on the stream.  I’ve tried adding a little : silicon high-vacuum grease.  This stuff is less soluble, but much : tackier.  I find this a good way of floatin flies such as Letort : hoppers which are hard to gink properly by hand.  Overall rating: : 7 out of 10. : Isn’t this stuff, like, toxic to fish ? It’s probably the same stuff as any other fly floatant.  I’m sure I’ll be corrected if I’m wrong, but I believe the reason floatant works is becasue it keeps the water off the fly… and anything that does that will gum up a gill, too.  BTW, I raised Tim’s issue over a year ago without a nibble. How come we don’t worry about all the floatant in the water? — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : the fly for long on the stream.  I’ve tried adding a little : silicon high-vacuum grease.  This stuff is less soluble, but much : tackier.  I find this a good way of floatin flies such as Letort : hoppers which are hard to gink properly by hand.  Overall rating: : 7 out of 10. : Isn’t this stuff, like, toxic to fish ? It’s probably the same stuff as any other fly floatant.  I’m sure I’ll be corrected if I’m wrong, but I believe the reason floatant works is becasue it keeps the water off the fly… and anything that does that will gum up a gill, too.  BTW, I raised Tim’s issue over a year ago without a nibble. How come we don’t worry about all the floatant in the water? — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

SILICONE based dressings (plagarized products from another industrial source) absorb 10% of their weight in water.  (Also they are very dirt gathering prone).  This is why you do not want to use silicone based dry fly dressings. Hope this helps answer your problems about silicone dressings. Lastly, hollow deer haired flies such as hoppers, etc. a trimmed with sissors and the hollowed hair will suck in water if you do not dress the head liberally with Gink.  Why GINK is better in this area is because it has a specific gravity of .78 the density of water.  Which means, it floats all by itself.  Rick Fletcher is absolutely correct in that GINK keeps water from the tying material, making them basically impervious to the entry of water while adding a high degree of floatability.  This is only one reason why GINK is the World’s Number One Dry Fly dressing. That aside, from ginking flies to tying them, Gehrke’s Gink is the world’s first COMMERCIAL dry fly dressing to float a fly for more than one float.  In fact, it does it better even today than any other dressing in the world and will usually float a dry fly until the owner changes it or loses it . . . more often than not. The main point is, it works!  It works better than any other competitor’s efforts i the entire world. And that . . . in itself, is another story I might tell one day.  How it all came about. Gink keeps it up! George/Mr. Gink I would never break the romance of two lovers.  The fly that is dressed well who are in need of keeping a date with a fish. No more. No less. gg/;)

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : Dear All: : I have access to some silicon oil.  Do you think I should try this on my : flies?  It is reagent grade stuff.  I’m not sure what I should cut it : with, as it is far too concentrated to use on an individual fly.  It : should work though.  Gink is essentially the same stuff but in a low : melting base. : JB I’ve tried using silicon oil on my flies.  I cut the oil about 1:10 with hexanes and dipped the flies in.  Unfortunately, I’ve found that the finished products is too thin and doesn’t protect the fly for long on the stream.  I’ve tried adding a little silicon high-vacuum grease.  This stuff is less soluble, but much tackier.  I find this a good way of floatin flies such as Letort hoppers which are hard to gink properly by hand.  Overall rating: 7 out of 10.

Isn’t this stuff, like, toxic to fish ? TimW

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Dear All: I have access to some silicon oil.  Do you think I should try this on my flies?  It is reagent grade stuff.  I’m not sure what I should cut it with, as it is far too concentrated to use on an individual fly.  It should work though.  Gink is essentially the same stuff but in a low melting base. JB

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: Dear All: : I have access to some silicon oil.  Do you think I should try this on my : flies?  It is reagent grade stuff.  I’m not sure what I should cut it : with, as it is far too concentrated to use on an individual fly.  It : should work though.  Gink is essentially the same stuff but in a low : melting base. : JB I’ve tried using silicon oil on my flies.  I cut the oil about 1:10 with hexanes and dipped the flies in.  Unfortunately, I’ve found that the finished products is too thin and doesn’t protect the fly for long on the stream.  I’ve tried adding a little silicon high-vacuum grease.  This stuff is less soluble, but much tackier.  I find this a good way of floatin flies such as Letort hoppers which are hard to gink properly by hand.  Overall rating: 7 out of 10. Pete

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Question:

my only complaint is that he and his wife giggle like morons every

time they hook a fish.  Can anybody shed any light on this?<<<   Drives me into the trees as well ! Harry

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my only complaint is that he and his wife giggle like morons every time they hook a fish.  Can anybody shed any light on this?<<<  Drives me into the trees as well ! Harry

  Yea, I hate to complain about the only show dedicated to our beloved pastime, however, the giggling drives me NUTS and I can’t figure out why after so many guided trips they would not be able to come up with some places to go on thier own!!! ( Maybe cause the plug for thier own travel service is at the end of the show )              /Leave nothing but your footprints                                               /                                              /                                             /                                            /                                           /                                       O  /                                       |_/o                                       |                                      / |

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I do not know these people but I ran into them on the Big Horn and they seemed like nice people trying to make a living from the kinds of people who buy videos about flyfishing (I guess in hopes they will become better flyfishers).  I guess if you paid a lot of money for the video you have a right to bitch — otherwise it sounds just like jealousy to me.

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Harry  Yea, I hate to complain about the only show dedicated to our beloved pastime, however, the giggling drives me NUTS and I can’t figure out why after so many guided trips they would not be able to come up with some places to go on thier own!!! ( Maybe cause the plug for thier own travel service is at the end of the show )                                      Jay

Jay: I only recently noticed this thread.  Is "this guy and his wife" by any chance Jim and Kelly Watt who produce a fishing show for ESPN? Ed —

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OK, ok.  I started all of this hoping to find out if this Watt was related to the rape and pillage Watt of the ’80’s interior dept.  I’m sorry about the giggling remark, but it is a bit excessive, if perfectly sincere in appreciation for the exhilaration of hooking a fish on a fly.  I believe the show is top notch (anything’s better than Bill Dance).  If Jim and Kelly are in on this thread, I hereby invite them to a full day’s guided fly fishing for smallmouth bass on the beautiful upper Potomac near Harper’s Ferry, WVA–two custom whitewater fishing rafts, two guides, and lunch for the whole crew.  Laugh all you want, and catch triple-digits of smallies.  

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I only recently noticed this thread.  Is "this guy and his wife" by any chance Jim and Kelly Watt who produce a fishing show for ESPN? Yup, the same Giggle Twins…Say what you want, they make the sanctimonious blatherings of John Barrett in his Fly Fishing The World look good by comparison… Thank god for ESPN, VCRs, and the fast forward button – because I can’t see waking up early on a Saturday morning to listen to the flyfishing equivalent to Beavis and Butthead (hee! tee hee!…YUCK!) /dave <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< < Digital Equipment Corp.    Alpha Server Engineering  < <         "Read this and nobody gets hurt ;^)"         < <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Yeah…YEAH… and another thing… Fortunately I don’t get cable, but I’ve seen a couple of the Watt’s videos and can’t imagine how you guys don’t find it absolutely charmning when Kelly talks baby talk while fighting a tarpon. "Ooooh I tink I wost it". Give me a break. What these shows need are real people doing this fishing, people who haven’t shaved in a couple days, cussin and fartin’ in their waders. Yeah. Me for example. Yeah and Wayne too, they can send us off to all the great fishing locations. And we’ll have guests too : jc : "Well Wayne, looks like we’re ready to fish for barramundi here in Australia." wt : "Yes we are John, and here comes our special guest, Ingrid Newkirk!" etc. no laughing, no newage music, no tarponwear. jez fishun.                                                         jc

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If Jim & Kelly can’t make it, I’d like to volunteer, and I’ll even giggle if it’s absolutely necessary. bob vorel

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I only recently noticed this thread.  Is "this guy and his wife" by any chance Jim and Kelly Watt who produce a fishing show for ESPN? Yup, the same Giggle Twins…Say what you want, they make the sanctimonious blatherings of John Barrett in his Fly Fishing The World look good by comparison… Thank god for ESPN, VCRs, and the fast forward button – because I can’t see waking up early on a Saturday morning to listen to the flyfishing equivalent to Beavis and Butthead (hee! tee hee!…YUCK!) /dave

YeeeeeeeeeeHaaaaaaaaaaa!  Ride ‘em, Dave! — "Are the crows calling to me?" Asked Caw.

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Good idea about turning down the sound.  I have their videos in my shop, and they are good references if you are planning a trip to one of those destinations.  However, listening to them for too long is akin to water torture.  Dave

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be critical of jim watt all you want…we’re all stuck at work on our computers and he’s out in the boat with kelly…fishing no less.

 True Story !!.   Harry

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be critical of jim watt all you want…we’re all stuck at work on our computers and he’s out in the boat with kelly…fishing no less…

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Question:

I’m going to be in Florida over the next weekend and wonder if there is any possibility of some flyrodding for Snook.  Any advice out there? -old willy

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I’m going to be in Florida over the next weekend and wonder if there is any possibility of some flyrodding for Snook.  Any advice out there? -old willy

Well Willam… depending on where you are going the fishing can be great. Here in SW Florida (Ft Myers) snnok fishing is coming into its primetime. Fly of choice for me is the Clouser minnow in any bright colors. Good luck

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Check out your local fly shops or better yet call them in advance with a small order of flies and they will probably point you in the right direction.  Local knowledge of tides and flies will help you out.                                                           Good Luck,                                                             Reddfin

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Question:

Anyone have any comments on the use of sinking and sinktip lines as i do quite a bit of lake fishing and I still prefer to stick with the flyrod. cheers — gp

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I have fished lakes extensively, and used all types of sinking and sink tip lines.  It’s kind of a trade off between water depth, line density and sink tip length and leader length.  I have found full sinking (intermediate, med. density and fast sinking shooting heads) to be more effective than sink tips, but it’s probably personal preference.  The teeny nymph T series lines are good too (a T200 works well with 5, 6 weights). I haven’t used uniform sink lines, but they seem like a good idea.   Sinking lines are difficult to pick up out of the water, but once you do you can cast them a mile.  Remember, use a short leader, so as not to defeat the purpose of a sinking line.  Hang on, there are some big fish in some of the lakes I fish.

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Anyone have any comments on the use of sinking and sinktip lines as i do quite a bit of lake fishing and I still prefer to stick with the flyrod. cheers — gp

With in the past 5 years I have gone to a Uniform Sink tip line as you can maintain the fly in the fishing zone longer.  With a sink tip you strip or troll though the zone but don’t remain in the zone.  This is the same with fullsinking line.  I have been using this line find it to much more effective for lake fishing.  Check it out.  Joe

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: Anyone have any comments on the use of sinking and sinktip lines as i do : quite a bit of lake fishing and I still prefer to stick with the flyrod. : cheers I have made up a number of short lead core lines with a loop at each end. To fish deep, I simply attach one of these lead leaders to any line. The can also be used as a shooting head with a small diameter shooting line or just a small level line. Works well, and it’s cheap. –mike

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: Anyone have any comments on the use of sinking and sinktip lines as i do : quite a bit of lake fishing and I still prefer to stick with the flyrod. : cheers I have made up a number of short lead core lines with a loop at each end. To fish deep, I simply attach one of these lead leaders to any line. The can also be used as a shooting head with a small diameter shooting line or just a small level line. Works well, and it’s cheap. –mike

Mike I have good luck with cutting Cortland 333 Level Sinking line into 2′ 4′ and 6′ segments and putting loops on both ends. Tom

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: Anyone have any comments on the use of sinking and sinktip lines as i do : quite a bit of lake fishing and I still prefer to stick with the flyrod. : cheers Gordon, I have used a sinking line for several years, and find it to be a nuisance to cast with; probably I should use a sink-tip instead. The major problem is that your rod has to have enough oomph to quickly get the line airborne – very easy when it’s floating on the surface, and hell when it’s submerged. Casting a sinker will cause you to work on your casting style I also tried using a length of lead-core trolling line to do some flyfishing for walleye – caught a fish (eventually) but that stuff is hazardous to cast. Conventional sinking lines will work okay to about 15 feet. Go to Hi-D (or leadcore) to go deeper. Best fly-caught laker was about 10#, from Great Slave Lake, on a sinker. — 3798 Woodland Drive     voice: (604) 368-9315 Trail, BC               data:  (604) 368-9341

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