Question:

What am I doing wrong???? Thanks.

–Fish just the high tide change.   A hour before to a hour after the change in high tide.  Have a beer and relaxe, they probably won’t bite any other time of the day. Sharp Hooks, Pat Holdzit Fishing Products Inc. http://www.holdzit.com Before you buy.

Response:

Hi Derek, As Chris mentioned below, Silvers can get very hard to catch after they have entered the river. If you are still in the tide water of this river I would try to go upstream to the top pool where the fish hold waiting for rain or go downstream to the mouth or closer to the ocean where they are more aggressive. I would try morning and evening and on the outgoing tide? We fish for them every year south of Cordova, Alaska right on the ocean where they are almost like stripers in the surf. We use only floating lines and when it is smooth on top and not too windy, we use Pink Pollywogs on top that are clipped deer hair poppers. If you can wade for them at the mouth of a river, they are way more aggressive. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Help!  I suck at fly fishing for coho.  I have been trying unsuccessfully for about 3 outings so far to catch coho on the fly on the Capilano River, in North Vancouver.  I’ve concentrated on one pool in particular that looks like a fly should work.  Slow-moving, deep pool.  Gravel bank on one side and steep canyon wall on the far side.  Casting both a 14ft fast sink tip and a floating line in all sorts of water conditions, from turbid to crystal clear, and river conditions from unwadable to low and clear. I’ve been trying muddler minnows, mylar body minows, red, yellow and silver needlefish, leeches, mickey finns, you name it.  Been stripping fairly fast, in 8 inch pulls, as I read was the preferred technique. I see the odd coho porpoising on the surface, and guys catching a few using spoons. What am I doing wrong???? Thanks.

Response:

Salmon fishing with a fly is one of those things that you just have to put a lot of time in before you catch one.   Three outings is nothing, I know a fellow who spent three seasons at it before he caught one, then things started to pick up for him.  Fishing for West Coast Salmon and Steel Head with a fly is a difficult, but enjoyable. Ernie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Help!  I suck at fly fishing for coho.  I have been trying unsuccessfully for about 3 outings so far to catch coho on the fly on the Capilano River, in North Vancouver.  I’ve concentrated on one pool in particular that looks like a fly should work.  Slow-moving, deep pool.  Gravel bank on one side and steep canyon wall on the far side.  Casting both a 14ft fast sink tip and a floating line in all sorts of water conditions, from turbid to crystal clear, and river conditions from unwadable to low and clear. I’ve been trying muddler minnows, mylar body minows, red, yellow and silver needlefish, leeches, mickey finns, you name it.  Been stripping fairly fast, in 8 inch pulls, as I read was the preferred technique. I see the odd coho porpoising on the surface, and guys catching a few using spoons. What am I doing wrong???? Thanks.

Response:

Salmon fishing with a fly is one of those things that you just have to put a lot of time in before you catch one.   Three outings is nothing, I know a fellow who spent three seasons at it before he caught one, then things started to pick up for him.  Fishing for West Coast Salmon and Steel Head with a fly is a difficult, but enjoyable. Ernie

the other thing he can try is fishing for the coho out in the saltwater when they are actually feeding… makes a big difference in the aggressiveness of the coho.  out in the salt the coho are super aggressive and they bite well.   but the coho in the rivers definetely seem to turn on and off.  when they are off, they will hit nothing, no matter what.  try off-color water and early morning times, they have worked better than anything else for me. chris

Response:

Help!  I suck at fly fishing for coho.  I have been trying unsuccessfully for about 3 outings so far to catch coho on the fly on the Capilano River, in North Vancouver.  I’ve concentrated on one pool in particular that looks like a fly should work.  Slow-moving, deep pool.  Gravel bank on one side and steep canyon wall on the far side.  Casting both a 14ft fast sink tip and a floating line in all sorts of water conditions, from turbid to crystal clear, and river conditions from unwadable to low and clear. I’ve been trying muddler minnows, mylar body minows, red, yellow and silver needlefish, leeches, mickey finns, you name it.  Been stripping fairly fast, in 8 inch pulls, as I read was the preferred technique. I see the odd coho porpoising on the surface, and guys catching a few using spoons. What am I doing wrong???? Thanks.

Response:

Question:

It REALLY isn’t necessary to take the entire six ounce tub in the stream with you.  The world is full of containers of all sizes and shapes.  Transferring Albolene from its original container to something more convenient for use in the stream is any easy task.

Film canisters work – used one for abolene for years.  Still carry one as a spare in my wader bag. Peter

Response:

 …..I take the albolene and put some into one of those little "Brand X" bottles thats almost empty! What do you think boys and girls?…..

Actually, I think the "Brand G" would be a better choice.  I hear there’s billions of em out there.

Response:

Hey, I’ve just had a brainstorm.

<Snipped, plan to undermine our glorious capitalist economy Good God man !   Are you trying to undermine the economics of the industry ? Shame on you !  It is mandatory for a flyfisherman to carry several extremely expensive bottles of various substances of doubtful value, and hardly ever to use them.  Ideas like yours, though probably economically sound, and eminently practical, might be the death knell of the industry. Some bugger will be advising us to use cheap rods as well next !  What is the world coming to ? TL MC

Response:

Got to be me! Dave

Response:

   sound advice, as usual, from a man whose ability to discern the truth of a matter is legendary.

Legend has it he did once<g. — Charlie…

Response:

Fished the Big Quilecene river this pm. Lots of summer run Dog salmon carcasses in river. Very few trout. Fished an Orange stimulator, #6 on a 4x, as an October Caddis. You skitter the October caddis, and bob it under the surface to emulate egg laying. Caught handful of little Cutts and 2 chunky sea brite "rainbows" of about 14"  Strong fish. Had tied up a dozen stimulators and dressed all in Albolene nite before. Tried lite and heavy dressings. Both floated the fly, but the heavier dressing of Albolene did better, and still worked after being mouthed by caught fish. Stayed a little too long and went a little too far so had to hoof it back a couple of miles thru dark pastures and highway 101. Luckily my route went by the Laughing Oyster bar. Classic timber town bar. Thankfully no spotted owl on the menu Sunday nights. Dave

Response:

Saturday, October 16, 1999 Wolfgang, …you seem to be an intelligent writer and you find it a point to seek out people at a public board and criticize.  Please, could you explain to me your idea of the ROFF, what it is in your words, and how you contribute?

Why yes, actually I’d be delighted.  ROFF is a public forum to which many people come to exchange ideas and information related to fly fishing and a host of other topics.  I contribute by posting on topic messages whenever I feel that they may satisfy one or more of the following criteria; they must be informative, unique, insightful, amusing, illustrative, or in some other way useful.  I use the same criteria for off topic posts. Now, since there are many regular contributors here whose knowledge of matters related to fly fishing is vastly greater than my own I leave most of the informative answers to fly fishing questions to them.  Given the wide ranging interests of the people who post here it stands to reason that certain topics will come up about which I am in a position to say something worthwhile by virtue of the fact that I am a unique human being with experiences different from anyone else’s.  When that happens I contribute as I can and when the spirit moves me. As for being critical, I plead guilty as charged.  So what?  Early in my career on this NG I was taken to task for daring to offer a definition of a scientific term which many others found lacking, and this is as it should be.  What, after all, is the purpose of a public forum?  Is it not to sift through the dross of ill considered and sloppily propounded opinions in search of the truth?  Or, if you will allow me to switch metaphors, what we are about here is a process of distillation.  We are looking for the pearls of wisdom hidden in the sow’s ear or some such. But enough of that. Let’s get to the point of your criticism so cleverly hidden in what appears to be a question.  So, you don’t like my tone.  Evidently you see me as being unnecessarily quarrelsome or even unkind.  Again, guilty as charged…at least in some cases.  I don’t find this particularly difficult to justify though.  The great beauty of the usenet is that it affords anyone with access the opportunity to say whatever he or she wishes with a guarantee that the message will be available to a wide audience.  The great shortcoming of the usenet is that it affords anyone with access the opportunity to say whatever he or she wishes with a guarantee that the message will be available to a wide audience.  We live in what is called the information age.  Unfortunately a lot of what passes as information is in fact, shit.  And not everyone who passes information via this forum is pure of motive.  All too often some sanctimonious asshole shows up with an agenda that has nothing to do with sharing information or camaraderie.  It’s all about demonstrating that he is a superior being, some kind of Nietzchean Ubermensch.  I suspect that more often than not the underlying motivation is really an attempt to convince himself that he is in fact something more than a waste of valuable space, but that is neither here nor there.  Whenever this occurs I will, in my own humble way, do whatever I can to convince him that this is not a friendly place for such as he.  I am of course aware that others see matters differently than I do and that they have different means of dealing with miscreants.  This too is as it should be.  We have several regulars here who are the very soul of kindness and forbearance. And while I admire their measured responses to people who are not worthy of their attention I cannot be who they are nor act as they do.  Different strokes…. I hope I have cleared up this matter for you.  If not, let me know via email and I’ll expand.    One thing has makes me curious though.  The post to which you responded with your criticism of my criticism was a plea for Kathy not to give up on ROFF.  There was nothing critical in anything I said in that post. In fact, I even pointed out your "small stream fly fishing part III" as an example of a good reason for staying!  It seems to me there would be more appropriate places for you to voice your complaints.  It shouldn’t be at all difficult for you to find a thread in which I took a swipe at someone. Cheers!

Response:

Saturday, October 16, 1999 Wolfgang, …you seem to be an intelligent writer and you find it a point to seek out people at a public board and criticize.  Please, could you explain to me your idea of the ROFF, what it is in your words, and how you contribute? Why yes, actually I’d be delighted.

        (remarkably intelligent response deleted) Cheers!

        who loves ya, baby. wayno

Response:

Albolene.   Costs about eight dollars ( American ) for a big jar. Sorry, forgot source !   Most drugstores and similar.

Hi all, Funny thing – if I say GINK is a terrific floatant  - that is not spam it’s the truth! If George says it, all hell breaks loose! — Bill http://www.graigroad.demon.co.uk

Response:

Bill Grey: <<Hi all, Funny thing – if I say GINK is a terrific floatant  - that is not spam it’s the truth! It is a terrific floatant.  I don’t think any one has a problem with that. Dave L.

Response:

For some stupid reason I actually scrolled through this trash. This is the entire reason why I have stopped wasting my time with this group. EGAD!!

Response:

For some stupid reason I actually scrolled through this trash. This is the entire reason why I have stopped wasting my time with this group. EGAD!!

here and say, "Hey!  Come on over to the Camp Site and join into the discussion about spamming!"  (?) Okay Kathy, I think we understand why you actually scrolled through this question.  Thanks for our opinion. Mr. G.

Response:

Hey Ernie, or whoever remembers Whats the name of that hand cream you said was a great floatant? Where can you buy it? How much does it cost? Dave

Response:

Im going to give this stuff a try. Just found out you can order Albolene floatant on the web for $6 a 6 oz jar. Fact is they sell it in case lots, and probably by the carload. Just in case anyone else is interested, here is their web address. http://cdesb.com/ Dave

Response:

Hey Ernie, or whoever remembers Whats the name of that hand cream you said was a great floatant? Where can you buy it? How much does it cost? Dave

Albolene.   Costs about eight dollars ( American ) for a big jar. TL MC

Response:

Albolene.   Costs about eight dollars ( American ) for a big jar.

Sorry, forgot source !   Most drugstores and similar.

Response:

oh, come on, isn’t worth $2.49  for you to have the convenience of an applicator bottle ? Or do you ant to go streamside with a 6 oz. jar hanging from your vest ? BTW, George when you coming out with a upside down applicator ?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Im going to give this stuff a try. Just found out you can order Albolene floatant on the web for $6 a 6 oz jar. Fact is they sell it in case lots, and probably by the carload. Just in case anyone else is interested, here is their web address. http://cdesb.com/ Dave

Response:

oh, come on, isn’t worth $2.49  for you to have the convenience of an applicator bottle ? Or do you ant to go streamside with a 6 oz. jar hanging from your vest ?

Can’t you fill an applicator bottle from the jar? I have never seen the stuff so I have no idea if it can be done or not, but I am sure someone out there already has (or tried).  Info? Tips? Warren Remember, men will come and men will go, but the streams and mountains go on forever. -Bob Carmichael

Response:

Somewhere along the way I picked up a little holster thingy that holds the Gink bottle upside down, clipped to a zinger on my vest.  Label says "Gus’s Original Montana Flot-Pak".  Damned if I know where I picked it up at, but it works fine. — Frank Church Elkhart, IN USAF RETIRED – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – oh, come on, isn’t worth $2.49  for you to have the convenience of an applicator bottle ? Or do you ant to go streamside with a 6 oz. jar hanging from your vest ? BTW, George when you coming out with a upside down applicator ? Im going to give this stuff a try. Just found out you can order Albolene floatant on the web for $6 a 6 oz jar. Fact is they sell it in case lots, and probably by the carload. Just in case anyone else is interested, here is their web address. http://cdesb.com/ Dave

Response:

For some stupid reason I actually scrolled through this trash. This is the entire reason why I have stopped wasting my time with this group. EGAD!!

Don’t leave Kathy!  Lots of reasons to stay.  For example, see Adam’s "small stream fly fishing Part III" above.  In addition Mu shared a lovely story with us just yesterday.  Mike is back with with his valedictorian versification…….the list goes on.  Life goes on and ROFF is still the last best place around!

Response:

oh, come on, isn’t worth $2.49  for you to have the convenience of an applicator bottle ? Or do you ant to go streamside with a 6 oz. jar hanging from your vest ?

It REALLY isn’t necessary to take the entire six ounce tub in the stream with you.  The world is full of containers of all sizes and shapes.  Transferring Albolene from its original container to something more convenient for use in the stream is any easy task.

Response:

 Somewhere along the way I picked up a little holster thingy that holds the Gink bottle upside down, clipped to a zinger on my vest.  Label says "Gus’s Original Montana Flot-Pak".  Damned if I know where I picked it up at, but it works fine.

     If you are a real cheapskate (I am) you can make your own bottle holder. All the hardware stores sell black plastic 1" table leg end caps, they are usually come packaged four for a buck. These will snugly hold most of the gooey floatants (if you still use the stuff), most brands come in the same size bottle. Burn two holes in the base with a hot dubbing needle and tie in a loop of leader butt material. Voila- make one for yourself and impress three friends for a buck.

Response:

For some stupid reason I actually scrolled through this trash. This is the entire reason why I have stopped wasting my time with this group. EGAD!!

Filter all but those from A. Wayne Harrison….he is the young Marlon Brando. — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

Response:

For some stupid reason I actually scrolled through this trash. This is the entire reason why I have stopped wasting my time with this group. EGAD!! Filter all but those from A. Wayne Harrison….he is the young Marlon Brando. — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

    sound advice, as usual, from a man whose ability to discern the truth of a matter is legendary. wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Hey, I’ve just had a brainstorm.  OK ready?  What about this:  I take the albolene and put some into one of those little "Brand X" bottles thats almost empty! What do you think boys and girls? Will this work? Betcha it will. Dave

Response:

Question:

I do a lot of fly fishing from a 14′ aluminum boat and many of the lakes around here do not permit outboard motors. I plan to purchase a Minn Koda electric motor. Need advice on how much thrust to get 30 lbs. or 36. Any advice would be appreciated.

I would definately go with the larger motor.I stick an 30lb. electric motor on my 18 ft. aluminum canoe and wish it had more get up and go.It’s fine for slow cruising but when I spot fish rising at the other end of the lake I’d like to get there a little bit faster.Either way you’re going to enjoy the electric motor experiance…it’s peacefull,wildlife isn’t scared away…I’ve actually had trout jumping so close they’ve hit the side of my canoe…they didn’t hear me coming. — R.C.Thomson Hillside Mira,N.S. Canada

Response:

I do a lot of fly fishing from a 14′ aluminum boat and many of the lakes around here do not permit outboard motors. I plan to purchase a Minn Koda electric motor. Need advice on how much thrust to get 30 lbs. or 36. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks Paul Renfree Grande Prairie Alberta Canada

Response:

BIGGER the better Good fishin and God bless Chris Up The Creek Tackle

Response:

I do a lot of fly fishing from a 14′ aluminum boat and many of the lakes around here do not permit outboard motors. I plan to purchase a Minn Koda electric motor. Need advice on how much thrust to get 30 lbs. or 36. Any advice would be appreciated.

I’ve got the same setup and have the bottom-of-the-line Minn Kota and it’s just fine.  Nothing fancy, but it moves the boat across the lake at a good clip, and since it draws less current than the 36 # units it will run for 8-10 hours on a charge.  (Fact is I’ve never managed to drain the battery in a weekend.) -drl — Derek R. Larson           Indiana University       Department of History   "Eastward I go by force, but Westward I go free!"  -H. D. Thoreau

Response:

Question:

Unless your really going to be using the pack rod for hiking, camping, etc where the small size makes a difference I would stay away from the 4 pc rod. they tend to be very stiff due to the large number of ferrules. I looked at quite a few before i found one that i liked (not stiff). If your just starting out, get a two piece, as the quality is usually much better for the same cost. pack rods req much more engineering to equal the same action of a two piece rod and that extra engineering is usually lacking in lower priced rods and they end up being very stiff. IMO

Response:

I am looking for a beginner’s outfit.  I live in Northern California and will be fishing for trout in rivers and streams.  There are also steelhead, bass and salmon in my area, but I assume (and let me know if I am wrong) that I will need a heavier rod/reel for steelhead, bass and salmon. I was thinking of a 5 weight, 8 1/2 foot rod.  LL Bean has an 2 piece rod  outfit, with a guarentee, for $100    Cabellas has a 4 piece rod outfit  (which may be handy for hiking), with no lifetime guarentee, for about $90.00.  Any thoughts on LL Bean vs. Cabellas?  And if the rods are equal, any thoughts on trading the guarentee (LLBean) for the convience of a  four piece rod (Cabellas)?  Any additional imput would be great. Thanks in advance.

Anthony:         I’d second the advice you got from the other responder to your post I’ve seen and go for the 2 piece unless that kind of small carrying size is really really important to you. As he said, it takes a lot of technology to still give a rod life and yet pack four ferrules on it. Besides, for hiking, you just use the rod case for the 2 piece as a staff. (And they even make a little rubber shoe that fits over standard rod cases to make such a thing even handier.)         As to the weight of your rod, sounds good, and yet, salmon and steelhead would require a significantly heavier rod. BUT, you might want to think about going up one size

Question:

Tom, I hate to drizzle on your parade, but I think a reasonable inference from the photos of the original 13 patterns in the Treatise (as interpreted by the famous angling historian Jack Heddon) is that at least 2 were caddis imitations, the Ruddy Fly and the Black Leaper. These are downwing flies whereas the "Dun" flies have upwings. If you agree, it means caddis imitations were among the earliest known patterns. Paul Marriner – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : Hi–   I read Wright’s 1972 book, _Fishing the Dry Fly as a Living Insect_, : with much interest.  Certainly new to me! : But did Wright invent the caddis fly, as someone posted? : Weren’t some of the earliest known flies caddis imitations? A lot of the FF tradition was brought from England, and a lot of that was, to be polite, mayflycentric ;-^) Most of the early patterns were for mayflies; it was only later that folks began to seriously imitate caddises, stoneflies, terrestrials, etc. — 3798 Woodland Drive     voice: (250) 368-9315 Trail, BC               data:  (250) 368-9341

Response:

: Hi–   I read Wright’s 1972 book, _Fishing the Dry Fly as a Living Insect_, : with much interest.  Certainly new to me! : But did Wright invent the caddis fly, as someone posted? : Weren’t some of the earliest known flies caddis imitations? A lot of the FF tradition was brought from England, and a lot of that was, to be polite, mayflycentric ;-^) Most of the early patterns were for mayflies; it was only later that folks began to seriously imitate caddises, stoneflies, terrestrials, etc. — 3798 Woodland Drive     voice: (250) 368-9315 Trail, BC               data:  (250) 368-9341

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – While Leonard Wright did not "invent" the caddisfly, it’s said he was first the white man to meet one, long ago, in the days when even insects could speak.  Mr. Wright was ever a man of edges, and curious, so he immediately proceeded to question the bug. "I watched a trout eat one of your brethren," said he.  "And since it’s widely known by narrow minds that trout eat only mayflies, I must ask: Are you merely a mayfly, rather badly bent?" The mayfly, a lady, and an elegant princess of a family ignored by anglers, demurred.  "Oh no," she whispered, and shyly lifted a folded wing, revealing herself from thorax to rounded abdomen.   "So I see," said Mr. Wright, noting the absence of tails, "and you are certainly lovely." The poor caddis, overwhelmed with pleasure, oviposited right there and then, swooned, fell to the stream and twitched twice, which caused her to be eaten by a three-pound brook trout Wright had seen it all.  He thrilled to the meeting, grasped its meaning, sat to his vise.   The rest is history, of course.  An  evolution, in a way, for imbedded in those eggs that lady caddis lay, deep in their DNA, remained a memory of Wright’s attention, captured forever in a charming moment…   And that is why, fellow anglers, that even today, a descendent of Lady Caddifly may see you on a stream, mistake you for another brave Maverick– And flutter.   From a review of <Trout Maverick in <California Fly Fisher: ….History and instruction aside, there’s another reason to read Wright carefully, perhaps the most compelling: Wright is a <thinker.  Occasionally philosophical, sentimental about split cane and gut leaders, he is most keen when he puzzles and prods, experiments, dismisses traditional assumptions when "a bleak, black day" demands something different and new.  He’s not the kind of fisher who, facing failure, will do what’s prescribed until the sun goes down; Wright wonders, tinkers and tries.  If his successes leave him with a dim view of purists, Wright certainly doesn’t blink an apology… …at the heart of Wright’s writing is appreciation for independent examination, for the willingness to study closely, trust what you see, and proceed from there.  In the end  <Trout Maverick is as heretical as this:  "…when you start observing flies and fly behavior for yourself without relying on some other man’s word, you’ll find a whole new and productive world of fishing."

  It can be discouraging wading through the newsgroups sometimes but I suspect that this is the sort of post that keeps many of us coming back. I read the post yesterday asking if Mr Wright had invented the caddisfly and simply moved on with a mental roll of my eyes.  Mriffler was inspired to greatness and my evening is better for it. I will look to his posts in the future.  

Response:

To whom it may concern, The other day I made a critical reference to the book "Fishing the Dry Fly as a Living Insect", Leonard M. Wright. My remark was about what I saw as conceipt by the author. That, I got the feeling that he thought he discovered the caddisfly. That he stores silk lines in the freezer made him an elitist prick, that sort of thing… Well…it’s funny how humility looks you up and hunts you down. I have since learned that Leonard M. Wright is a very elderly gentleman now, nearly if not ecclipsing 80. I have learned that he is a great man and a dear, dear friend to many, many of us.  I realize now that when he wrote the book initially, he really was breaking new ground.  He had every right to be proud of his discoveries.   I am ashamed of my careless and callous remarks and I apologize profusely.   What is really disturbing and humbling is that, despite my feelings and despite the fact that it is hard to read the book for those reasons, I have found myself reading it at least twice every winter for better then 10 years.  He really does have something important and useful for us to learn. Thank you, Leonard M. Wright.  I owe you a great deal. A debt that I have no idea how to repay… — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Response:

To whom it may concern, The other day I made a critical reference to the book "Fishing the Dry Fly as a Living Insect", Leonard M. Wright. My remark was about what I saw as conceipt by the author. <etc Well…it’s funny how humility looks you up and hunts you down. I have since learned that Leonard M. Wright is a very elderly gentleman now, nearly if not ecclipsing 80. I have learned that he is a great man and a dear, dear friend to many, many of us.

<etc Thank you, Leonard M. Wright.  I owe you a great deal.

No sweat. A debt that I have no idea how to repay…

You could start by cutting out the ten to fifteen C&K-vs-C&R-everyone-else-stopped- listening-months-ago-never-ending-debate-from-Hell posts per day crap. Don’t you have a job or something? This goes for you too, Ralph. — Leonard M. Wright – Fly Fishing Legend, Inventor of the Caddis Fly

Response:

Excellent response Leo. I agree completely. Thanks,                Rick

Response:

You could start by cutting out the ten to fifteen C&K-vs-C&R-everyone-else-stopped-listening-months-ago-never-ending- debate-from-Hell posts per day crap. Don’t you have a job or something? This goes for you too, Ralph. Leonard M. Wright – Fly Fishing Legend, Inventor of the Caddis Fly

Do you remember that scene where Woody Allen pulls Marshall McLuhan out of a corner to put a windy so-and-so in his place?  From now on, whenever Moe starts to rant I will smile and think of Woody and Leonard. Keep your stick on the ice, Thos.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You could start by cutting out the ten to fifteen C&K-vs-C&R-everyone-else-stopped-listening-months-ago-never-ending- debate-from-Hell posts per day crap. Don’t you have a job or something? This goes for you too, Ralph. Leonard M. Wright – Fly Fishing Legend, Inventor of the Caddis Fly Do you remember that scene where Woody Allen pulls Marshall McLuhan out of a corner to put a windy so-and-so in his place?  From now on, whenever Moe starts to rant I will smile and think of Woody and Leonard. Keep your stick on the ice, Thos.

The best part is where Thos. says to keep your stick ….. Everyone is wright. There is tooo much egotistical BS on Roff. But hey, that’s the way its been the two years I’ve been watching -Doug

Response:

Mr. Wright,         Thank you, a million times, thank you. Bob – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You could start by cutting out the ten to fifteen C&K-vs-C&R-everyone-else-stopped- listening-months-ago-never-ending-debate-from-Hell posts per day crap.

Response:

Hi–   I read Wright’s 1972 book, _Fishing the Dry Fly as a Living Insect_, with much interest.  Certainly new to me! But did Wright invent the caddis fly, as someone posted? Weren’t some of the earliest known flies caddis imitations? vince norris

Response:

 While Leonard Wright did not "invent" the caddisfly, it’s said he was first the white man to meet one, long ago, in the days when even insects could speak.  Mr. Wright was ever a man of edges, and curious, so he immediately proceeded to question the bug.  "I watched a trout eat one of your brethren," said he.  "And since it’s widely known by narrow minds that trout eat only mayflies, I must ask: Are you merely a mayfly, rather badly bent?"  The mayfly, a lady, and an elegant princess of a family ignored by anglers, demurred.  "Oh no," she whispered, and shyly lifted a folded wing, revealing herself from thorax to rounded abdomen.    "So I see," said Mr. Wright, noting the absence of tails, "and you are certainly lovely."  The poor caddis, overwhelmed with pleasure, oviposited right there and then, swooned, fell to the stream and twitched twice, which caused her to be eaten by a three-pound brook trout  Wright had seen it all.  He thrilled to the meeting, grasped its meaning, sat to his vise.    The rest is history, of course.  An  evolution, in a way, for imbedded in those eggs that lady caddis lay, deep in their DNA, remained a memory of Wright’s attention, captured forever in a charming moment…    And that is why, fellow anglers, that even today, a descendent of Lady Caddifly may see you on a stream, mistake you for another brave Maverick–  And flutter.    From a review of <Trout Maverick in <California Fly Fisher:  ….History and instruction aside, there’s another reason to read Wright carefully, perhaps the most compelling:  Wright is a <thinker.  Occasionally philosophical, sentimental about split cane and gut leaders, he is most keen when he puzzles and prods, experiments, dismisses traditional assumptions when "a bleak, black day" demands something different and new.  He’s not the kind of fisher who, facing failure, will do what’s prescribed until the sun goes down; Wright wonders, tinkers and tries.  If his successes leave him with a dim view of purists, Wright certainly doesn’t blink an apology…  …at the heart of Wright’s writing is appreciation for independent examination, for the willingness to study closely, trust what you see, and proceed from there.  In the end  <Trout Maverick is as heretical as this:  "…when you start observing flies and fly behavior for yourself without relying on some other man’s word, you’ll find a whole new and productive world of fishing."

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Question:

What are the best EASILY AVAILABLE books on salmon fishing and tying salmon flies? Thanx for the help.

Response:

What are the best EASILY AVAILABLE books on salmon fishing and tying salmon flies? Thanx for the help.

First I presume you are asking about Atlantic salmon books, not books relating to inferior <vbg Pacific species. As I write, Fishing Atlantic Salmon by Joe Bates and Pamela Bates Richards, is the best and most available Atlantic salmon fly fishing and fly tying book. It is published by Stackpole and goes for $75.00(US)–although I am reliably informed that a little shopping around might beat that price. Poul Jorgensen’s Salmon Flies is always recommended for fly tying and is easily available. Bates’ much earlier book, Atlantic Salmon Flies and Fishing, is a great classic and has been reissued by Stackpole. Finally, my own, Atlantic Salmon – A Fly Fishing Primer (mimimal fly-tying), can usually be found in second hand catalogs at indecently low prices. Paul Marriner

Response:

What are the best EASILY AVAILABLE books on salmon fishing and tying salmon flies? Thanx for the help.

What kind of salmon and where?  Full dress atlantic salmon flies or pacific/alaska shiny "purty" things?

Response:

Fishing, is a great classic and has been reissued by Stackpole. Finally, my own, Atlantic Salmon – A Fly Fishing Primer (mimimal fly-tying), can usually be found in second hand catalogs at indecently low prices. Paul Marriner

All great fishing books eventually get remaindered. Known fact. Charles Cotton had the same problem. Andrew

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For Atlantic Salmon fishing I swear by Hugh Falkus’ book "Salmon Fishing" available here through Orvis and presumably others.

Response:

Try Fly Fishing for Pacific Salmon, Bruce Ferguson, Les Johnson, Pat Trotter, Frank Amato Publications.

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Question:

If you respond to his post *please* don’t include his web site address again. That means he will just get more responses to his post… Good diving… Sam . This is not an advertisement!!! . . I just stumbled upon the site and wanted to let everyone know . that you can save a ton of money if you purchase lightsticks by A perusal of deja news shows unequivocally that Brian Cimins is directly involved with the light sticks.  Therefore he is a liar. – Keith

–          http://www.tdl.com/~sam 1) Download and preview "Giant Stride Divelog" for Windows 2) SCUBA trivia with new trivia each time you access it…

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.

. . This is not an advertisement!!! . . Aren’t you the same bonehead that was here a month or so ago? . Still full of crap I see……. .Yes Mike, Brian Cimins is the same.  When I pointed out that he is a liar he .responded via e-mail thus: .        Re: This web site can save you money!!! .    To: .Does it bother you that I am making more money on every posting that I make?? .Even if people, like yourself, with no life and obviously a terrible vocabulary, .continue to haggle me I will continue to make money….SO GET A LIFE OR GET A .JOB!!! .BYE NOW!! .This is an automatic response to idiots…please do not respond!! Judge for yourself whether "Brian Cimins" is a liar. – Keith

Response:

On Monday, July 15, 1996, Brian Cimins wrote…  I dive, fish, camp and charter a boat and I go through lightsticks like water, and it was a pleasant suprise to come across a company whosells FACTORY DIRECT.  PLEASE DO NOT PASS THIS SITE UP!!

Where do you recycle all those lightsticks?

Response:

This is not an advertisement!!! I just stumbled upon the site

Dann, I have been using CMB software’s slideshow5.1 for quite a while now, for the money invested, (only $20.00) it has alot of features! handles all major formats, include wav files, but the best thing about it, is how easy to use it is. Slide shows can be made in a matter of minutes!!!! I currrently have all my ocean shots running at work. Check it out at: ftp://ftp.mcs.net/mcsnet.users/cmbsoft/sldsho51.zip http://www.mcs.net/~cmbsoft/sldsho51.zip c’ya!

Response:

following to rec.[outdoors.[fishing.fly,fishing.saltwater,marketplace],scouting,scuba]: This is not an advertisement!!!

Of course not.  We didn’t think it for a moment. I just stumbled upon the site and wanted to let everyone know…

Just stumbled upon it?  Kind of like I just stumbled upon this post from you back in May, before Netcome tossed you… | If you are a camper, boy scout, or leader please e-mail me for a | wonderful giveaway for this summer’s youth scouting camps. | | Sincerely, | Brian Cimins | Kailume Lightsticks | http://www.lightsticks.com Now, please stop your commercial advertising on Usenet. — Dan Masi Mentor Graphics Corp.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – . This is not an advertisement!!! . . CHEAP PRICES!!! WEB SITE: . . http://www.lightsticks.com . . This web site offers lightsticks for WHOLESALE PRICES!! . I just stumbled upon the site and wanted to let everyone know . that you can save a ton of money if you purchase lightsticks by . visiting this site.  I dive, fish, camp and charter a boat and I . go through lightsticks like water, and it was a pleasant suprise . to come across a company whosells FACTORY DIRECT.  PLEASE DO NOT . PASS THIS SITE UP!! . . http://www.lightsticks.com . . Peace to all you pioneers out there and BE SAFE!!! A perusal of deja news shows unequivocally that Brian Cimins is directly involved with the light sticks.  Therefore he is a liar.

This just goes to show that advertising using Usenet is not always a free ride.  Brian Cimins has chosen to use deception in order to get potential customers to check out a product that he sells.  Unfortunatly, now that he has been exposed, lots of potential customers will not consider purchasing *anything* from him in the future.   I don’t generally even investigate any web page that looks like it’s going to be from someone trying to get me to buy something.  If they choose to participate in the discussion group (because that is what this is) and include a reference that they might be in a related business I might check it out if I’ve them make some contributions to the group. Those that merely post here and ask for my business will never get it. — John Fereira Isis Distributed Systems – Ithaca, NY

Response:

On Monday, July 15, 1996, Brian Cimins wrote…  I dive, fish, camp and charter a boat and I go through lightsticks like water, and it was a pleasant suprise to come across a company whosells FACTORY DIRECT.  PLEASE DO NOT PASS THIS SITE UP!! Where do you recycle all those lightsticks?

in the last 48 hours, he has posted several dozen posts to many newsgroups, including several looking for distributors. This is an ad and it is his. He just plain lies. — Queens College, Computing and Information Technology Services Photography, Diving, Flying, Delphi RAD addict Diving Long Island Sound in Fairfield County, CT

Response:

Now if I was an rude advertiser as he is, I would have 2 big concerns… a) he presents a WWW form for ordering, and uses COD as one form of shipment… I wonder what happens to his profits if lots of those orders turn out to be incorrect addresses (and he has to "eat" the shipping costs) and the product is returned to him. b) I wonder what happens if you call the provided phone number (908-929-8202) and try to order at say 3am (in the middle of the night).  I wonder who staffs the phone at those hours?  That could be quite annoying if he runs this business out of his house, wouldn’t you think? that might be a good time to tell him what you think of his ads. Mike — *My opinions, not Alcatel’s*      [] NC Diving: http://www.vnet.com/scuba/ A is A.    Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt man doing it.

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This is not an advertisement!!!

Aren’t you the same bonehead that was here a month or so ago? Still full of crap I see…….

Response:

. This is not an advertisement!!! . . CHEAP PRICES!!! WEB SITE: . . http://www.lightsticks.com . . This web site offers lightsticks for WHOLESALE PRICES!! . I just stumbled upon the site and wanted to let everyone know . that you can save a ton of money if you purchase lightsticks by . visiting this site.  I dive, fish, camp and charter a boat and I . go through lightsticks like water, and it was a pleasant suprise . to come across a company whosells FACTORY DIRECT.  PLEASE DO NOT . PASS THIS SITE UP!! . . http://www.lightsticks.com . . Peace to all you pioneers out there and BE SAFE!!! A perusal of deja news shows unequivocally that Brian Cimins is directly involved with the light sticks.  Therefore he is a liar. – Keith

Response:

This is not an advertisement!!! Aren’t you the same bonehead that was here a month or so ago? Still full of crap I see…….

I did a yahoo usenet search and found 7 posts to groups by this dodo, with this subject. — Queens College, Computing and Information Technology Services Photography, Diving, Flying, Delphi RAD addict Diving Long Island Sound in Fairfield County, CT

Response:

This is not an advertisement!!! CHEAP PRICES!!! WEB SITE: http://www.lightsticks.com This web site offers lightsticks for WHOLESALE PRICES!! I just stumbled upon the site and wanted to let everyone know that you can save a ton of money if you purchase lightsticks by visiting this site.  I dive, fish, camp and charter a boat and I go through lightsticks like water, and it was a pleasant suprise to come across a company whosells FACTORY DIRECT.  PLEASE DO NOT PASS THIS SITE UP!! http://www.lightsticks.com Peace to all you pioneers out there and BE SAFE!!!

Response:

This is not an advertisement!!!

It certainly do looks like one…

Response:

This is not an advertisement!!! I just stumbled upon the site

same bozo, same bullshit pretending to be uninvolved, a few months later… | Chuck Narad — diver/adventurer/engineer                         | |                                                                  | |   "Yesterday is history.  Tomorrow is a mystery.  And today?     | |   Today is a gift.  That’s why we call it The Present."          | |                         – Babatunde Olatunji                     |

Response:

Question:

I plan to spend 7 days in N. Vietnam at the beginning of July.  How easy is it to get to Halong Bay and Hue from Hanoi?  Is it realistic to see these two in 7 days?  

Yes. You can do Halong Bay roundtrip in 2 days from Hanoi. Some travelers’ hangouts offer 2-day tours. Five of us formed our own group and arranged our own trip through a "travel agent", which was more fun (we had more space, had more flexibility, and got to spend the night on the boat) for a little more money ($50 per person instead of $25, all inclusive, in 1994). If you go by mass transit, I think you need 3 days total. Also, what’s the left luggage situation like in Hanoi?

As in most places around the world, your best bet is to stay in a hotel that will hold your luggage before/after your stay. Bruce Burger Seattle, USA

Response:

I plan to spend 7 days in N. Vietnam at the beginning of July.  How easy is it to get to Halong Bay and Hue from Hanoi?  Is it realistic to see these two in 7 days?  Also, what’s the left luggage situation like in Hanoi?

Response:

Yes, you can do both–Halong Bay is an all-day trip and Hue is a short flight on Vietnam Air (but plan on staying at least overnight).   I didn’t do either, but did fly to Danang and stayed in the wonderful old fishing village at Hoi An, 10 miles south of Danang.  It is a real contrast to urban Hanoi.  A nice small hotel in the old quarter of Hanoi is called The Classic.  Posted rates are $50-60, but we bargained don to $25 for two people.

Response:

Question:

thanks for your leader info. Thanks for your information. I worked this out a little better since i last posted. I have a 12 wght also, and a beefy battenkill reel that has yet to sing. I took the mono off the front of the s-head, and left a foot long butt of mono on it with a perfection loop. I practiced delivering 3/0 deceivers on a commercial Scientific A’s tapered leader. A 9′ 12 lb test worked great. Now I think I am going to take the mono off the back of the 30 s-head and go with some floating or intermediate line that won’t tangle in my dish bucket If the dish bucket hoses again with real line……I will glue in "finger"s in the bottom of the bucket. I live in northern california, but am headed back to mom’s in south jersey in 2 weeks, a 52 lber was caught in Holgate last week in the surf. What kind of strip and retrieve are you doing? Have you seen the Jeff Mancini video? Are you making your own epoxy poppers?? Steve in Santa Cruz

Response:

writes: I live in northern california, but am headed back to mom’s in south jersey in 2 weeks, a 52 lber was caught in Holgate last week in the surf.

we’ll make arrangments to meet on the surf. That 52 lber sure got my attention quick. What kind of strip and retrieve are you doing?

I had been doing a one handed strip all the time until I got a tip from Darren Lew (see earlier post on stripping). Today I alternated with a two handed strip and found the hook setting to be much more reliable (and firm). Darren had some interesting points on the additional fly speed and retrieve control of the two handed strip. I still find, however, that a one handed strip provides unmatched jigging action on flies with lots of material to flail in the water (Tabory Snake flies, big Deceivers, rabbit hide strips, etc.). I just got some Martha’s Vinyard Squid Flies from Orvis in the mail today and can’t wait to get ‘em wet in the surf! Have you seen the Jeff Mancini video?

Yup. A buddy brought it over while we were still in the dead of winter here in NY and I’ve been hooked since ;^) I also met the guy during an outdoorsman show in Rockland county back in February. Seems nice, but we didn’t get too much time to talk (he was swarmed by too many glassy eyed folks overcome with excitement in the presence of such an international celebrity 8^). There is a post in this group with his home phone number…. Are you making your own epoxy poppers??

Since I just got started with fly fishing this year, I haven’t accumulated all the toys yet. I figured I’d get some pre-tied first so I couldn’t blame my unsuccessfull outings on bad fly tying. Now that a buddy has shown me how simple some of the saltwater flys are to tie, I’ll be picking up a vice any day now… Look forward to hearing from you! HH&TL,     Jose

Response:

Question:

I have an Orvis PM-10 8wt with a Ross G-4 reel and would like to gear up for a shooting head/shooting line. I’m planning to buy an xtra spool for the G-4, load up a couple hundred yards of Cortland Spectron 35lb backing, then attach the shooting line and finally shooting head. My questions are:

I do a lot of striper fishing and use shooting heads almost exclusivly. The realy nice thing is you can travel very light. I tend to grab a rod, a box of flies, some leader material, and a couple of shooting heads (floating and  sinking) and put everything in my pockets. Here are some thoughts from my experience.        1) what is the best shooting line to use for steelhead and/or          saltwater? My choices seem to be braided nylon or light level          fly lines. (i.e. in the 2-3 weight category.)

First. Everything is a compromise.  I haven’t used the braided lines, (someone told me they are very hard on your hands) but I am thinking about giving them a try. I have used "amnesia" mono line and found it to be a real pain. It tends to blow around and catch on things pretty easily (I tend not to use a shooting basket, which might solve these problems). But with mono, you sure can cast a long way and a sinking head will sink very deep. So that leaves level fly line, which I’ve been using for quite a while. The biggest advantage to fly line is it floats. I use a fast sinking shooting head quite a bit and floating shooting line makes it much easier to pick up the line for the next cast. If you do use flyline, before you start fishing, stretch it. It will lay in nice coils. Also I found that spraying a rag with some silicon and running the shooting line through it works great. But don’t silicon a sinking head. This year I also decided to mark the shooting line every ten feet with a permenant black marker. This give me some idead of how much line I have out.       2) what is the best way to attach the shooting head to the shooting          line? Do loops work well, or is a direct connection much better?

Again it’s a compromise. If you attach the shooting line directly – ie with a needle or nail knot – it will be easier to shoot the line through the guides. In theory, the shooting head should be outside the tiptop before you try to shoot any line. In practice, this is rarely the case. (BTW, if you make your own rods, use an oversize tiptop, it solves a lot of problems.) I use loops, because it makes switching shooting heads very easy. You don’t have to reel everything in and switch spools. Instead, you just unloop one head and loop on another. I haven’t used the braided loops that are available, but I probably will give them a try next year. Making loops is easy:    a. You need a razor blade, very fine thread (preferably in a bobbin),   and three kinds of glue, "Super glue", Duco Cement and Pliabond.    b. Begin by shaving the end of the fly line down to the center core for    a couple of inches.    c. Lay the shaved part back on the standing part so you have a loop of about 3/4 of a inch.    d. Stick the two parts together with the super glue and let it dry.    e. Wrap the glued part with thread and finish with whip finish, just   like a rod guide.    f. Coat the wrap with Duco Cement. Let it dry.    g. Coat that with Pliabond. I use the same three glues over a needle knot for attaching leader butt material.        3) what kinds of shooting heads are best? (i.e. the pre-made ones          available from Sci Anglers, Orvis, etc. or by cutting a section          from a double-taper flyline or some such.)

I’ve had both. If you make your own you can get two heads from one double taper, but a double taper line probably costs about twice as much as a store bought head. One advantage to making your own is you can tailor the length (and thus the weight) to match your rod. Start with a length of 35 feet or so. Attach it temporarily to the running line and try casting with it. If your rod loads well and casts easily, go ahead and finish it. If it’s not right keep trimming a bit of length. If your are making it from a double taper, it’s probably best to trim it from the rear (where it’s attached to the shooting line.)        4) should I use a shooting head sized for a 9 or 10 weight? I’ve          seen some text which seems to imply that using a size or two          larger than the rod is rated for is appropriate. Is it?

This all depends on the rod. All things considered, if you buying instead of making, you would probably do best to start with a head rated one size too large. I hope this helps — P.O. Box 409 Cambridge, MA 02140-0004

Response:

Quoting templin from a message in rec.outdoors.fishing.fly     should I use a shooting head sized for a 9 or 10 weight? I’ve     seen some text which seems to imply that using a size or two     larger than the rod is rated for is appropriate. Let me answer your question on line weights.  I was listening to our local Southern California radio fishing talk show this morning.  Their guests were Lefty Kreh and Flip Pallot.  They are in town for the annual Marriott’s Fly Shop Flyfishing Fair.  The same question came up.  Lefty said if you are using a shooting head to use a line one weight heavier than your rod weight.   He added that if you are using a sinking line, like a HI-D to go 2 sizes heavier. Jim in Southern California

Response:

1) what is the best shooting line to use for steelhead and/or    saltwater?

I use Cortland’s 0.031" diameter running line – looks like fine fly line.  When using a shooting head setup, you’ll spend lots of time handling the line which is why I would recommend against mono or braided lines. You can find other diameter running lines, but if they’re too thin, handling is tough and the line wears too fast, and if too thick, the head won’t be as able to pull the running line out for good casting distance. 2) what is the best way to attach the shooting head to the shooting    line? Do loops work well, or is a direct connection much better?

You want some sort of loop system to allow exchanging of heads. I’ve tried a ‘double nail knot mono loop’ and a braided loop.  Either works, though I have more confidence in the mono loop.  Just use some 30lb mono.         ___        /   ___vvv The "^^^" nail knot is done first, and not pulled tight until the second "vvv" nail knot is done.  The mono going back to the second nail knot runs under the loops used in forming the first nail knot. Since the PVC cover on most fly lines can pull off the braided core, I usually like to put a knot "+" in the core and sug the nail knots up against it.    3) what kinds of shooting heads are best? (i.e. the pre-made ones      available from Sci Anglers, Orvis, etc. or by cutting a section      from a double-taper flyline or some such.)

Depends on what you’ll be fishing for.   For salmon and steelhead in Oregon, 3, 4, 5 and 6 foot sections of 850-grain Deep Water Express is the norm.    4) should I use a shooting head sized for a 9 or 10 weight? I’ve      seen some text which seems to imply that using a size or two      larger than the rod is rated for is appropriate. Is it?

Many of these setups are *not* tuned to any rod weight.  I use 8wt and 9wt rods when chucking heads, and suspect a 7wt would do. Thomas Gilg

Response:

      1) what is the best shooting line to use for steelhead and/or      saltwater? My choices seem to be braided nylon or light level

I use two kinds; an Orvis shooting Line made for the purpose and a monofile nylon line from Berkley called XL Solange in 0.50 milimeters thickness. The Orvis is good, comfortable and easy to use. The Berkley casts longer, but is harder to handle. Some of my fellow fishermen tried braided line with good luck, but I find it rough on the fingers.    2) what is the best way to attach the shooting head to the shooting      line? Do loops work well, or is a direct connection much better?

I use loops with great success. They’re easier to make and make experiments (see later) much easier. But direct connection goes smoother through the rings, and feels a little better in the cast — more directly connected, if you’ll excuse the pun. If you use mono line for shooting line, then use a real nail knot for the joint. One where the mono goes inside the fly line. If you use level line or ‘real’ shooting line, remove coating from both lines, splice in some way, and cover with aquaseal or the like.    3) what kinds of shooting heads are best? (i.e. the pre-made ones      available from Sci Anglers, Orvis, etc. or by cutting a section      from a double-taper flyline or some such.)

I always made mine from DT line a class (or even two) heavier than the classification of the rod. I cut them in half, which makes them much too heavy, but with a loop system, it’s very fast to find the right weight (that is: length) of the head. Start casting, and cut small peices of the line, until you get the right weight. It’s best to have someone familiar whith shooting heads to help you the first time, if you’ve never used a shooting head before.       4) should I use a shooting head sized for a 9 or 10 weight? I’ve      seen some text which seems to imply that using a size or two      larger than the rod is rated for is appropriate. Is it?

See above. Normally one class above will be OK. But use very inexpensive DT lines for experiments, and remember; there’s always the other half if you cut too much…. BTW: cut off most of the front taper of the half DT line. It’s not much good anyway, and a good knotted or tapered leader will transfer movement better without it. Regards Martin Joergensen Copenhagen, Denmark

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1