Question:

I know they are annoying, as a flats fisherman I have had jet skis go by me at full blast while fly fishing, they were close enough to hook (damn I missed). However, when I have my kids out on my large boat, they get the biggest kick out of seeing one of those guys on a jet boat fly over the wake and nose dive into the other side, they are actually comical and can provide  entertainment. I don’t mind them as long as I am not fishing and as long as they stay in the back and away from my bow. If they were just a little more sensitive to the people around them we could all get along…

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I know they are annoying, as a flats fisherman I have had jet skis go by me at full blast while fly fishing, they were close enough to hook (damn I missed). However, when I have my kids out on my large boat, they get the biggest kick out of seeing one of those guys on a jet boat fly over the wake and nose dive into the other side, they are actually comical and can provide  entertainment. I don’t mind them as long as I am not fishing and as long as they stay in the back and away from my bow. If they were just a little more sensitive to the people around them we could all get along…

As someone that enjoys PWC’s very much, if their doing something unsafe or illegal, don’t hesitate to call some law enforcement.  The day we get all the idiots off the water will be the day that people don’t think less of me for using a PWC. — Granular "Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball."

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Question:

I’m looking to improve my midge presentations this year. There is a local lake that I fish often where midges appear to be a major food source and I keep getting skunked. I know, use, and tie only a couple of midge patterns: 1. Griffith’s Gnat for dry 2. Brassie for the pupa. Anyone have any killer patterns for midges? I’m especially interested in larva, pupa, and emerger type patterns. There don’t seem to be as many out there as for mayfly nymphs etc. As for presentation, I recently checked out Mike Croft’s stillwater book and found that midge larva and pupa imitations need to be presented in a near vertical presentation with very slow retrieve. I think this is part of my problem also. Any tips/techniques anyone has here would be appreciated as well!

Response:

This URL should help you out http://www.fishbc.com/adventure/angling/protalk/chan/confession.phtml TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

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Wow. The article talks about using a 6 or 7 meter leader.  That seems like it would be impossible to cast? Keith – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This URL should help you out http://www.fishbc.com/adventure/angling/protalk/chan/confession.phtml

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m looking to improve my midge presentations this year. There is a local lake that I fish often where midges appear to be a major food source and I keep getting skunked. I know, use, and tie only a couple of midge patterns: 1. Griffith’s Gnat for dry 2. Brassie for the pupa. Anyone have any killer patterns for midges? I’m especially interested in larva, pupa, and emerger type patterns. There don’t seem to be as many out there as for mayfly nymphs etc. As for presentation, I recently checked out Mike Croft’s stillwater book and found that midge larva and pupa imitations need to be presented in a near vertical presentation with very slow retrieve. I think this is part of my problem also. Any tips/techniques anyone has here would be appreciated as well!

Hi Xochi, Someone else pointed you to Brian Chan’s page.  Its a very good start. There are a lot of midge patterns around, most all fly tying books show a few.  The Griffith’s Gnat is a good dry pattern, its just that lake fish aren’t on drys very often.  They are on the emergers, pupa, and larva much more often.  I like the suspended midge pupa patterns for the emergers, and the swannundase midge for the pupa.  Both are in Kaufmans book "Tying Nymphs".  You will need a variety of colors and sizes,  assume you will need black, olive, gray, and red pupa patterns.  Sizes cover a huge spectrum.  My box includes size 12 at the large end and goes to 18 at the small end. Smaller may be needed on occasion, but not so often I stock for it.   What you really need to do is spend some time watching the midges hatch in your lake.  Stock your box with the colors and sizes present at your lake.  I didn’t mention larva patterns because I don’t use any special patterns for the larva.  The pupa pattern is generally close enough. Most of my midging is done within 4 feet of the surface.  This might be peculiar to the lakes I fish.  I don’t go out of my way to use a long leader, and tippet size doesn’t need to go to the rediculous either.  A standard 9 foot leader ending in 4x is OK most of the time.  Lake fish run pretty big and while smaller tippets can be used to land them,  doing so usually exhausts the fish in the process.  Stay with the heavier tippets whenever you can. Slow is key, in fact if you can keep the line tight, no retrieve is best.  I use a strike indicator a lot so a tight line is not as critical.  Wave action provides more than enough action to the fly.  To catch a few on midges now and again is a simple matter.  To get really good at it is a whole nother story! Good luck John S.

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I’m looking to improve my midge presentations this year. There is a local lake that I fish often where midges appear to be a major food source and I keep getting skunked. I know, use, and tie only a couple of midge patterns: 1. Griffith’s Gnat for dry 2. Brassie for the pupa.

snipped to save room. going to get spammed for spamming.  I have the answer, but I don’t know how to help you and others in a public forum such as ROFF. The price one pays for being an icon!  Sucks! — Mr.G Wildlife: An American Ideal & Her Values Thesis http://www.gink.com/environment/index.html

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Xochi, What about my favourite midge-emerger: Hook: TMC 2487 #’s 18-22. Tail: two strrands of twinkle flash, cut off short. Body: grey tyingthread – make a very, very thin body, tied well into the bend. Tie in a CDC-feather at the point. Wrap a small thorax with some peacock-herl Fold the CDC-feather losely over the thorax, thus forming a small buld on top. It’s OK to let some fibers point out. The idea is to get a small body with a rather messy thorax. Cut of. Just let this fly float in the surface, using a long leader-point, without too much casting. Hans van der Stroom – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m looking to improve my midge presentations this year. There is a local lake that I fish often where midges appear to be a major food source and I keep getting skunked. I know, use, and tie only a couple of midge patterns: 1. Griffith’s Gnat for dry 2. Brassie for the pupa. Anyone have any killer patterns for midges? I’m especially interested in larva, pupa, and emerger type patterns. There don’t seem to be as many out there as for mayfly nymphs etc. As for presentation, I recently checked out Mike Croft’s stillwater book and found that midge larva and pupa imitations need to be presented in a near vertical presentation with very slow retrieve. I think this is part of my problem also. Any tips/techniques anyone has here would be appreciated as well!

Response:

Greetings, Small Fly by Darrel Martin, try a search on http://www.addall.com/ for a source and the best price available. Graham

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m looking to improve my midge presentations this year. There is a local lake that I fish often where midges appear to be a major food source and I keep getting skunked. I know, use, and tie only a couple of midge patterns: 1. Griffith’s Gnat for dry 2. Brassie for the pupa. Anyone have any killer patterns for midges? I’m especially interested in larva, pupa, and emerger type patterns. There don’t seem to be as many out there as for mayfly nymphs etc. As for presentation, I recently checked out Mike Croft’s stillwater book and found that midge larva and pupa imitations need to be presented in a near vertical presentation with very slow retrieve. I think this is part of my problem also. Any tips/techniques anyone has here would be appreciated as well!

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The price one pays for being an icon!  Sucks!

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0679887482.01.LZZZZZZZ.gif — Charlie…

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Not so, we use 20-22 ft leaders, in lakes, all the time.  A lot of people who use a bobber over their chironomids, cast these leaders very well….even with the cork. Fred – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wow. The article talks about using a 6 or 7 meter leader.  That seems like it would be impossible to cast? Keith This URL should help you out http://www.fishbc.com/adventure/angling/protalk/chan/confession.phtml

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TRY A FLY CALLED HALO MIDGE EMERGER.YOU WILL FIND THE PATTERN IN A BOOK WRITTEN BY GARY LAFONTAINE:TROUT FLIES PROVEN PATTERNS.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m looking to improve my midge presentations this year. There is a local lake that I fish often where midges appear to be a major food source and I keep getting skunked. I know, use, and tie only a couple of midge patterns: 1. Griffith’s Gnat for dry 2. Brassie for the pupa. Anyone have any killer patterns for midges? I’m especially interested in larva, pupa, and emerger type patterns. There don’t seem to be as many out there as for mayfly nymphs etc. As for presentation, I recently checked out Mike Croft’s stillwater book and found that midge larva and pupa imitations need to be presented in a near vertical presentation with very slow retrieve. I think this is part of my problem also. Any tips/techniques anyone has here would be appreciated as well!

Response:

Hi Xochi (how does one pronounce that anyway I read your post several times … these are the things that came to mind. The Grifiths Gnat and Brassie don’t really cover the few inches of water column beneath the surface unless you clip hackles or use greased leaders.   Last year Mike Connor suggested I try a snipe and purple on midging fish in lakes … I didn’t have snipe at the time and used magpie instead … both have worked for me.  But … I pick a fish and put the fly well infront and will strip the fly into the fishes path if necessary then leave it inert – I generally don’t have to fish the water.  Of course that was last year – this year may be completely different What species of fish?  Rainbows give me the most trouble with their speed, even seemingly slow rise forms are from fish moving at quite a clip. Do something radical … trick I use is to use a small attractor (size 16 or 14 at most) and fish this by casting to a rise and stripping slowly … Alexandras are good for this on the lakes I fish.  This isn’t a bad option when searching the water either.  I will also use bait fish imitations … it really depends a lot on the water. What fly do I start with? … 99% of the time the wrong one. Of course if your fish are totally switched on to a 3.75 mm pupae with a bluey-silver sheen  you may need a whole lot of luck as well… Its taken nine off-seasons to come up with couple of tactics and flies that work consistently on midge feeders during the middle of the day. steve — "Experience must be the teacher in this game – not only your own  but the other man’s" – Dick Wigram http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~steve/fush/

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m looking to improve my midge presentations this year. There is a local lake that I fish often where midges appear to be a major food source and I keep getting skunked. I know, use, and tie only a couple of midge patterns: 1. Griffith’s Gnat for dry 2. Brassie for the pupa. Anyone have any killer patterns for midges? I’m especially interested in larva, pupa, and emerger type patterns. There don’t seem to be as many out there as for mayfly nymphs etc. As for presentation, I recently checked out Mike Croft’s stillwater book and found that midge larva and pupa imitations need to be presented in a near vertical presentation with very slow retrieve. I think this is part of my problem also. Any tips/techniques anyone has here would be appreciated as well!

I don’t know if you’ve ever heard of "Whitlock’s Four-Phase Polymidge", but It is a simple and supposedly highly effective pattern.  I have never used it, but the design seems very good, and all the stories I’ve heard? Convincing!    Meroli

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Steve Wrote <snip Of course if your fish are totally switched on to a 3.75 mm pupae with a bluey-silver sheen  you may need a whole lot of luck as well… Its taken nine off-seasons to come up with couple of tactics and flies that work consistently on midge feeders during the middle of the day.

Have any of you heard of the Silver Savior (as featured in Field and Stream)? It can barely be called a fly, It is supposed to work when trout seem to be "feeding on microscopic bubbles!" (pronounced with a tone of frustration). Unfortunately, I forgot how it is tied!  I can say that it is tied on a #22-#32 size hook, with almost no materials.  The author of the article said that he invented it to imitate a tiny air bubble.       Meroli

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AJ Bests patterns in FR&R about a year ago are interesting,  using  the edge from a zip lock baggie!  Will try them out in one week at Lees Ferry.  Report to follow.   Al Schuh-fly

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The best website for the San Juan,     www.ifly4trout.com    , has lots of midge patterns

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Question:

What size tippet are you using, and what knot are you using to tie on your fly?  I fish for bass and panfish with a 5X tippet and do fine (bluegill up to maybe 6 inches, bass to about 15 inches).  Used to lose a lot of flies before I switched from an improved clinch knot to a Duncan loop/Uniknot – since then I haven’t had problems with losing flies.  Hope this helps. — Bob Jarvis Mail address hacked to foil spammers! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Help, I am an intermediate fly fisherman who is used to catching pan fish.  Lately I have been doing a little better but am having trouble sacrificing my fly  to the God of fish.  Is there a good techniqe out there for running drag on a fairly light rig when catching a big fish.  I have been using the palm of my right hand to self adjust the drag once the fish is on but seem to have a heavy touch.  Any advice? thanks.

Response:

Help, I am an intermediate fly fisherman who is used to catching pan fish.  Lately I have been doing a little better but am having trouble sacrificing my fly  to the God of fish.  Is there a good techniqe out there for running drag on a fairly light rig when catching a big fish.  I have been using the palm of my right hand to self adjust the drag once the fish is on but seem to have a heavy touch.  Any advice? thanks.

Hi Sky, I set the drag just heavy enough to keep the reel from back lashing or over running when I quickly pull some line off the reel. I then add more drag or resistance with my fingers on the fly line or use the rim control drag. I would then be sure that you have the right size tippet to match your fly size. Make sure that your leader/tippet is fresh and your knots are good. For #10, 12 & 14 dries I would use 5x tippet. For #16, 18 & 20 I would use 6x tippet.(7x later) For #8, 10 & 12 wet flies and nymphs I would use 3x tippet. For #14, 16 & 18 wet flies and nymphs I would use 4x tippet.(5x later) This is a chart I give to anglers that are just getting started. It is just for a rough guide and to get them thinking about using different size tippets with different size flies. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY www.kiene.com

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Breakoffs are the result of both reel drag and rod flex at the tip. A slower rod ie more flexible acts as a shock absorber to the fishes sudden movements and cushions the leader and light tippet. The drag is for breaking the fish’s runs (longer distance moves). I don’t know many fisherman that can use the old palm drag technique without just a little too much pressure just for a split secound that gives the fish your fly. Many reels have good drags like Lamson and Abel (and Cortland etc for the cheaper ones) I like the Bauer and other large arbor reels because their drag is the smoothest and most adjustable. I also have a Rhyle (sp?) which is resonably expensive and the drag is terrible. You keep having to reset it with a fish on. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Help, I am an intermediate fly fisherman who is used to catching pan fish. Lately I have been doing a little better but am having trouble sacrificing my fly  to the God of fish.  Is there a good techniqe out there for running drag on a fairly light rig when catching a big fish.  I have been using the palm of my right hand to self adjust the drag once the fish is on but seem to have a heavy touch.  Any advice? thanks.

Response:

You’ll probably get  a response from TimW, Halfordian Golfer on this one… He’s the one that usually works in drag in this NG…. #:)#

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Help, I am an intermediate fly fisherman who is used to catching pan fish.  Lately I have been doing a little better but am having trouble sacrificing my fly  to the God of fish.  Is there a good techniqe out there for running drag on a fairly light rig when catching a big fish.  I have been using the palm of my right hand to self adjust the drag once the fish is on but seem to have a heavy touch.  Any advice? thanks.

Response:

I am an intermediate fly fisherman who is used to catching pan fish.  Lately I have been doing a little better but am having trouble sacrificing my fly  to the God of fish.  Is there a good techniqe out there for running drag on a fairly light rig when catching a big fish.  I have been using the palm of my right hand to self adjust the drag once the fish is on but seem to have a heavy touch.  Any advice?

You are obviously holding harder than you need. Have a look at books on Pennsylvania fly fishing for trout, where tiny flies require light leaders, e.g. Ed Koch’s Fishing the Midge (1972).  There is a consensus there that even with big fish (say 5 lb.) the rod and guides provide about as much drag as the tippet can endure, depending on how high up you point the rod and how much the rod bends.  For this fishing, reel drag is minimal, i.e. just enough to prevent overrun. I.e. drag depends on the bend of the rod more than the resistance of the reel.  You even see this on salmon rivers where fish run 20 lb.  Reel drag setting is secondary to making the bend of the rod tire out the hooked fish. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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Help, I am an intermediate fly fisherman who is used to catching pan fish.  Lately I have been doing a little better but am having trouble sacrificing my fly  to the God of fish.  Is there a good techniqe out there for running drag on a fairly light rig when catching a big fish.  I have been using the palm of my right hand to self adjust the drag once the fish is on but seem to have a heavy touch.  Any advice? thanks.

A top quality fly reel will have an excellent, working drag.  I use Penn International reels…great drag, great reel, expensive but worth it if you hook lots of big fish. — Don Jordan "The Real Indiana Jones" http://realindy.com

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Lefty Kreh advocates attaching the tippet to the main body of leader via a loop

Question:

I often fish droppers when lake fishing or nymphing on rivers and I wonder what the correct distance between the two flies should be.  Also, should the larger fly go on the point or as the dropper?   Where should split shot go, between the two flies or above the dropper? I imagine that these variables may depend upon which flies I am using and the conditions.  I would appreciate any comments or suggestions.

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Larger, heavier, fy on point. Dropper 2-3 ft. back tied on w/ similar tippet. Shot behind point fly if using shot. Big point fly should make shot unnecessary.

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I often fish droppers when lake fishing or nymphing on rivers and I wonder what the correct distance between the two flies should be.  Also, should the larger fly go on the point or as the dropper?   Where should split shot go, between the two flies or above the dropper? I imagine that these variables may depend upon which flies I am using and the conditions.  I would appreciate any comments or suggestions.

I Have been using a larger beadhead as the point fly for the added weight and that seems to work good.     Jack

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A number of people around Central Oregon are tying a stonefly or beadhead on 3X or 4X tippet, then adding around 18" of 5X and putting either a PT, small hare’s ear, or a caddis pupa BEHIND the large fly, tying the tippet to the bend of the heavier hook.  I have much better luck with this for most situations.

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I often fish droppers when lake fishing or nymphing on rivers and I wonder what the correct distance between the two flies should be.  Also, should the larger fly go on the point or as the dropper?   Where should split shot go, between the two flies or above the dropper? I imagine that these variables may depend upon which flies I am using and the conditions.  I would appreciate any comments or suggestions. I Have been using a larger beadhead as the point fly for the added weight and that seems to work good.    Jack

I have used a larger more colorful fly as an attracter for the lead fly and I have also used  a popper as a strike indicarer for a lead fly. They both seem to work good depending on dept and what you are fishing for.  With both methods I have caught  fish on both flys the same cast.   Tom

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Question:

Before the present day method of line nomenclature (e.g. WT5, DT6…etc..) there was a different way to describe line weights and types. Does anyone have details on the old system? I run across old lines and rods and would like to know exactly what I am looking at.

Response:

Bruce Richards from Scientific Anglers has written a short book on Modern Fly Lines as part of Lefty Kreh’s Little Library of Fly Fishing.  It has a biref section (pp. 32-37) on standardization of fly line weights, including a translation table. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Before the present day method of line nomenclature (e.g. WT5, DT6…etc..) there was a different way to describe line weights and types. Does anyone have details on the old system? I run across old lines and rods and would like to know exactly what I am looking at.

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Try McClaines Fishing Encyclopedia, I think he has a run down on this subject. Phil

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Question:

I just got my orvis catalog in the mail today..ah, it’s January but spring is already in the air…So, my fellow fly fishermen, what are we buying Orvis braided leader system..it seems like it would be great. I want to pick it up, but first i’d like to know if anyone knows how good it is..Thanks.. Frankie… NYC fly-fisherman..just a 2 hour drive to the Beaverkill..

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The advertisement for Jeep that starts…       "A Tradition Runs Through It…." About made me lose chow… Tim Walker

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The advertisement for Jeep that starts…       "A Tradition Runs Through It…." About made me lose chow…

I hope the Royal Coachman does not make you nauseous; it was invented by Mary Orvis Marbury.  Unless I am mistaken, you must carry your line coiled up in your hand.  The thought of using a modern fly reel, which traces its lineage back to the CFO reel developed by Charles F. Orvis, is repugnant. On the other hand, it may be the Jeep/Orvis advertising executives who make you sick.  The thought that anyone would exploit fly fishing’s traditions, your heritage, for commercial gain could upset you.  That is why I only fish with tackle donated to me by Trappist monks.  They have to give up both fishing and sex. Shudder! Unfortunately, fewer and fewer folks are willing to make that double sacrifice so I am running low on tackle.  I am therefore looking forward to drooling over my Orvis catalogue.  I imperil my immortal soul by dealing with them (the toll free #, 1-800-666-6666, is scary) but what the heck.  Some of it is nice stuff. — Keep your stick on the ice.

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The advertisement for Jeep that starts…       "A Tradition Runs Through It…." snip Yeah, Tim, but if you keep reading, it only gets worse: "…The Orvis name informs (sic) the spirit of every fly fisherman…in America"   WHAT does that mean??!!

Inform (vt) does not just mean to impart knowledge, it also means 1) obs to give material form or to arrange 2)to give character or essence; hence to be characteristic of 3)to train or discipline 4)to guide or direct.  I don’t know why Webster says that 1 is obsolete; Aristotelian and Thomistic metaphysicians are always prattling on about formal causes informing material causes. So how do you like that?  Madison avenue says that Orvis gives you character, disciplines you, and/or guides you.  And I thought that they just had some nice stuff for sale.  If it were not for those ads I might have gone to my grave without recogning my essential Orvisness. — Keep your stick on the ice.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The advertisement for Jeep that starts…       "A Tradition Runs Through It…." snip Yeah, Tim, but if you keep reading, it only gets worse: "…The Orvis name informs (sic) the spirit of every fly fisherman…in America"   WHAT does that mean??!! Inform (vt) does not just mean to impart knowledge, it also means 1) obs to give material form or to arrange 2)to give character or essence; hence to be characteristic of 3)to train or discipline 4)to guide or direct.  I don’t know why Webster says that 1 is obsolete; Aristotelian and Thomistic metaphysicians are always prattling on about formal causes informing material causes.

Thanks for the vocabulary lesson!  Now that I know what they’re talking about, somehow I don’t feel much better.  However, I agree with the people who have posted to the effect that this drivel is an ad, after all; Orvis is just using the media to try to turn a buck, and I don’t sweat them that.  My beef is with the media…do they really think we are a bunch of sheep? Anyhow, seeing the ad did not stop me from placing an order from the same catalog.  Boycotting is a bit extreme, I think. Paul DiConza NY Capital District Angler

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: The advertisement for Jeep that starts… :       "A Tradition Runs Through It…." : About made me lose chow… : On the other hand, it may be the Jeep/Orvis advertising executives who : make you sick.  The thought that anyone would exploit fly fishing’s Norman Maclean must be rolling in his grave.  His son and his daughter must not have ever read the book, or they missed the point.  Ol’ Norm was very protective that his story was personal and he never wanted to exploit it for commercial gains.  Now he’s dead and his family is raping his memories.  If I ever see an orvis edition jeep at my fishing hole, I think I’ll let the air out of it’s tires for Norm…I think he’d approve. Tim Walker

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Who would buy an Orvis Cherokee…maybe the same tweedy types that keep Orvis in business and FF a bad name. Went way too far this time pa.

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Tim Walker suggests that he would let the air out of the tires of any Orvis Jeep parked near his fishing spot and that Norman McLean would approve. Tim – If I ever see anyone letting the air out of any fisherman’s vehicle (of whatever kind), I’ll do my best to see if I can get the person arrested. Making such a suggestion, even as hyperbole, reflects poor judgment (among other things).                                               Dallas, TX                                               Ennis, MT

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Question:

Heading down to SC for Xmas to see sis.  Is there still fishing there at that time of year?  If so, where, and any suggested patterns?  Reply here or to email.  Thanks. Martin Rooney

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(MartinR100) writes:

""Heading down to SC for Xmas to see sis.  Is there still fishing there at that time of year?  If so, where, and any suggested patterns?  Reply here or to email.  Thanks."" Martin, You can secure expert, friendly advice at "Foothills Fly Fishing" shop, 1908 N. Pleasantburg in Greenville, 803-292-2406.  Good luck, Steve S.

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Question:

I am wanting some suggestions for good trout fly fishing in the mountains of western north carolina.  I am new to this art and any help would be appreciated. — Michael Ebbs Center for Communications and Signal Processing North Carolina State University

Response:

<< am lookin for information on the western half of North Carolina… In the Ashville area, the fly shop of choice for info is Hunter Banks. I like to fish the Pisgah National Forest, specifically the Davidson River but there are many other near by from GA to Va. If you want your trout easy & big the Cherokee reservation has some tribal stocked waters which they will sell you daily permits. The national park has an abundance of streams.   Also suggest the rivers in the Joyce Kilmer nat forest, as well as the French Broad around Ashville. There is also  fly shop in Cashiers and near Blowing Rock (different shop) for additional info, but the guys at Hunter Banks will give you so much info, you’ll not be able to digest it all at once. Good Luck Wayne Knight — Wayne Knight CSERVE, 71151, 2762

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Just got back from a visit to my folks in Waynesville.  Took a tour of the eastern edge of the Great Smokies.  The Catalooche, and Big Creek in that area are both good although the fish apparently can be a little picky on the Catalooche.  Both streams are gorgeous and as a rule not crowded due to relatively limited road access.

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Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (Montgomery, Noel D.) writes: Hammond) writes… | | I have had no luck with SSS as an insect repellant.  If | it works for you great.  If you haven’t tried it before, | I’d bring muskol or cutters or whatever your favorite | brand containing 95-100% deet. | | I was curious to see how SSS and Muskol compared because I would rather use a non-deet repellant.  So during one trip I did in the middle of Algonquin Park (it was very hot and there were tons of nice, big mosquitoes) I did a test.  I put SSS on the bare skin of one arm and Muskol on the other. They worked equally well for about a half an hour and then the SSS lost its effectiveness.  The Muskol lasted for hours.  I usually bring both and use the Muskol  on my clothes and hat .  The SSS is too labour intensive having to put it on too often to be effective when the bugs are really bad. – Lori (ps sorry to whoever(I think it was Steve Hammond) I accidently e-mailed this  post to … Hit the wrong button!)

Saw something sometime recently (how’s that for a solid start?) that SSS isn’t really a repellent at all.  It’s oily, so it coats the skin and the mosquitoes can’t get to the skin … or because of it’s scent, the mosquitoes can’t smell the blood. It might work at first, but once perspiration dilutes it and/or washes it away, you would be without protection.

Response:

I have had no luck with SSS as an insect repellant.  If it works for you great.  If you haven’t tried it before, I’d bring muskol or cutters or whatever your favorite brand containing 95-100% deet. I go to the army surplus store and buy a little plastic squeeze bottle of army issue incent repellant.  I believe it’s 90% deet. I’ve been using the same bottle for three seasons.  It cost me about $2.  It works. —

I used that stuff when I was in the USAF…dissolved the vinyl steering wheel in my jeep too.  Left neato fingerprints on anything plastic. Anyway, it did work.  I also read an article once that said the most affective concentration of DEET was about 30%.  This was an Army study, so maybe the latest Army-issue stuff only has about 30% DEET in it.  I buy any brand with about that much in it and they seem to work fine.  I like the stinky ones…reminds me of when I was a kid and going camping, kinda like when you smell sun tan lotion and you remember when you were a kid going to the beach.. Brian — Brian Dixon, Machine Vision Engineer, Hewlett Packard (Corvallis, Oregon)

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After 14 mosquito-free years in Southern California, I get to move to Massachusetts for grad school…  Any mosquitoes there?

Well, I don’t believe the mosquitos are that bad, but up north you have an evil creature called the black fly.  Never encountered one, but from what I hear they’re worse than any mosquito bite. Mosquitos are bad, but I’ll walk into a cloud of mosquitos any day over a cloud of no-see-ums!         Mark — <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Mark Crafts                                                   Melbourne FL

Response:

After 14 mosquito-free years in Southern California, I get to move to Massachusetts for grad school…  Any mosquitoes there? Well, I don’t believe the mosquitos are that bad, but up north you have an evil creature called the black fly.  Never encountered one, but from what I hear they’re worse than any mosquito bite. Mosquitos are bad, but I’ll walk into a cloud of mosquitos any day over a cloud of no-see-ums!

A few years back, I went Pike fishing in the Adirondacks.  When I went back to the house, there were about 20 one inch trails of dry blood on my face. I was told that "black flies" were the culprits.  Are these the same critters that we’re talking about here?        Mark — <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Mark Crafts                                                   Melbourne FL

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Saw something sometime recently (how’s that for a solid start?) that SSS isn’t really a repellent at all.  It’s oily, so it coats the skin and the mosquitoes can’t get to the skin … or because of it’s scent, the mosquitoes can’t smell the blood. Just so you win future trivial pursuit games, I think the current consensus is that mosquitos home in on the CO .                                             2

I think they follow CO2 trails, but home in on heat for the kill. How else can you explain the mosquito bite on my ankle? After 14 mosquito-free years in Southern California, I get to move to Massachusetts for grad school…  Any mosquitoes there?

Response:

I have had no luck with SSS as an insect repellant.  If it works for you great.  If you haven’t tried it before, I’d bring muskol or cutters or whatever your favorite brand containing 95-100% deet.

I go to the army surplus store and buy a little plastic squeeze bottle of army issue incent repellant.  I believe it’s 90% deet. I’ve been using the same bottle for three seasons.  It cost me about $2.  It works. — John Fereira Viacom Cable Pleasanton, CA

Response:

Saw something sometime recently (how’s that for a solid start?) that SSS isn’t really a repellent at all.  It’s oily, so it coats the skin and the mosquitoes can’t get to the skin … or because of it’s scent, the mosquitoes can’t smell the blood.

Just so you win future trivial pursuit games, I think the current consensus is that mosquitos home in on the CO .                                              2         Mark — <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Mark Crafts                                                   Melbourne FL

Response:

| Saw something sometime recently (how’s that for a solid start?) that SSS | isn’t really a repellent at all.  It’s oily, so it coats the skin and the | mosquitoes can’t get to the skin … or because of it’s scent, the mosquitoes | can’t smell the blood. | | It might work at first, but once perspiration dilutes it and/or washes it away, | you would be without protection. | Actually, I put very little on so that is absorbs into the skin and your skin isn’t oily at all.  I thought I heard that it had citronella  (the stuff they make bug candles with) in it but I’m not sure.

Response:

I have had no luck with SSS as an insect repellant.  If it works for you great.  If you haven’t tried it before, I’d bring muskol or cutters or whatever your favorite brand containing 95-100% deet.   Steve —  Scientific Computing Division            /* /  _][     National Center for Atmospheric Research, Boulder, CO     ____

Response:

I have had no luck with SSS as an insect repellant.  If it works for you great.  If you haven't tried it before, I'd bring muskol or cutters or whatever your favorite brand containing 95-100% deet.

Yes, my ex-neighbor the entomologist (bug-man) said that SSS does nothing for mosquitos.  DEET is the way to go.  He did say that it works for very small biting insects like black flies because it drowns them.  Steve -- Scientific Computing Division            /* /  _][     National Center for Atmospheric Research, Boulder, CO     ____

Noel Montgomery

Response:

| | I have had no luck with SSS as an insect repellant.  If | it works for you great.  If you haven’t tried it before, | I’d bring muskol or cutters or whatever your favorite | brand containing 95-100% deet. | | I was curious to see how SSS and Muskol compared because I would rather use a non-deet repellant.  So during one trip I did in the middle of Algonquin Park (it was very hot and there were tons of nice, big mosquitoes) I did a test.  I put SSS on the bare skin of one arm and Muskol on the other. They worked equally well for about a half an hour and then the SSS lost its effectiveness.  The Muskol lasted for hours.  I usually bring both and use the Muskol  on my clothes and hat .  The SSS is too labour intensive having to put it on too often to be effective when the bugs are really bad. – Lori (ps sorry to whoever(I think it was Steve Hammond) I accidently e-mailed this   post to … Hit the wrong button!)

Response: