Question:

  thanks ope. jeff

        and thanks to you, jeffy, for a highly literate series of reports. wayno

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The fine gentleman from Greenville, NC neglected to mention that he caught somewhere in the neighborhood of a thousand trout, albeit many were the size of one’s index finger.  First time I ever heard a man cuss when catchin’ fish, but one does tire of catchin’ those little beggars I guess.  I didn’t have the problem of catchin’ that Jeff had, as I kept tyin’ on flys the size of an Albatross, not to mention I ain’t that good at catchin’ anything but a cold. Like all the other members of ROFF that I have fished with, Jeff is as fine an individual as a person can hope to meet and fish with.  I did charge Jeff my usual guide fee, but ended up losing money after having to pay him for the ride back to my truck at the bottom of the mountain. A camping trip on this section of water would really pay off.   As it is imperative to move along at a good pace in order to reach the Greentown Trail before dark, it is difficult to pay as much attention to many of the nice pools as is really necessary to catch the big’uns. Thank you Jeff for the invitation! Op

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Dare I ask, how much for the negatives and all extant prints ? As they say, if you have to ask, you can’t afford it…<g — Charlie…

priceless <g ww

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Dare I ask, how much for the negatives and all extant prints ?

As they say, if you have to ask, you can’t afford it…<g — Charlie…

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        …went fishing with opie on sunday 22nd.  For those who have never fished with him, let me simply say if you like hiking great distances and fishing remote locations, but are unable to carry enough food, water, gear, etc., he’s the fellow to take along.  the lad can carry more stuff than wal-mart.  he’s also right good company and don’t hawg the fishin holes.  we fished his favorite stream, on a stretch I had never been on before.  i now have a new favorite stream in this area. The section we fished runs through a deep gorge with fabulous rock outcroppings and cliffs abutting the stream. sections of the stream are treacherous…sliding around a rockface with the necessary aid of a cable and clambering/rappelling up a falls are required skills. my fear of heights and balance was seriously tested. after a mile or so hike up from a campground, we fished maybe a mile or two of wild trout water and exited on a trail that erodes weak souls and keeps most poachers at bay.  it was as fine a day fishing as i’ve ever had.  thanks ope. jeff

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even fortenberry now admits to having

fished over stockers in other than backwoods environs.

Yeah, but did he *catch* any?  And even more importantly, if he did, did he *keep* any? <g

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even fortenberry now admits to having fished over stockers in other than backwoods environs. I have pictures<g.

Dare I ask, how much for the negatives and all extant prints ? — Ken Fortenberry

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wayno’s story – your story. wayno’s story – your story. wayno’s story – your story. wayno’s story – your story. wayno’s story – your story. shit, I can’t make up my mind who’s position I’d rather be in. I think I gotta go with Wayno.   You can always catch another stocker, but a natural-bred beauty is a rare thing indeed.

Absolutely beautiful!      :)

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… even fortenberry now admits to having fished over stockers in other than backwoods environs. …

Ah shit, just 2 days late with the blackmail payment and the heartless bastard posts THIS. — Ken Fortenberry- but I didn’t enjoy it – honest

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even fortenberry now admits to having fished over stockers in other than backwoods environs.

I have pictures<g. — Charlie…

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wayno’s story – your story. wayno’s story – your story. wayno’s story – your story. wayno’s story – your story. wayno’s story – your story. shit, I can’t make up my mind who’s position I’d rather be in.

I think I gotta go with Wayno.   You can always catch another stocker, but a natural-bred beauty is a rare thing indeed. Joe F.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – .WHAM!  an 18" rainbow beauty hit an #18 olive paradun.  3 weight rod, 7x tippet, and a big fish…with me full of beer.  it doesn’t get much better. [snip] wayno’s story – your story. wayno’s story – your story. wayno’s story – your story. wayno’s story – your story. wayno’s story – your story. shit, I can’t make up my mind who’s position I’d rather be in. Peter (need some more nits?)

    if you could see a picture of her from 1978, the dilemma you suggest would never cross your mind.     in fact, if you saw her this morning… wayno, who will still take some nits, too.

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wally said something about bringing a gun next time, but i allowed as how that was a bit severe, and perhaps he could just hang his old waders from a tree.  

[snip] jeff

You don’t call that *severe*?  I’d rather take my chances with the gun. Peter

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.WHAM!  an 18" rainbow beauty hit an #18 olive paradun.  3 weight rod, 7x tippet, and a big fish…with me full of beer.  it doesn’t get much better.

[snip] wayno’s story – your story.   wayno’s story – your story.   wayno’s story – your story.   wayno’s story – your story.   wayno’s story – your story.   shit, I can’t make up my mind who’s position I’d rather be in. Peter (need some more nits?)

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the days i did…

        "you’ve done well to keep your hair, pilgrim…" wayno, just watchin the boy get better all the time

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the days i did… [excellent report(s) snipped] got in at about 9:30 pm.  rachel was not happy.  anyone know a valkyrie named gail hutzler roberts?  … if so, you’ll understand.

You mean that guy is *married*? I’m sorry, Jeffy, but I don’t believe that for a second. –Steve (but I still undertand, believe me!!)

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…stained the logs on 2 sides of the cabin….

In the interest of preserving what little decorum remains in this newsgroup I feel compelled to point out that your urinary habits are NOT a fit topic for discussion here! Aside from that, nice report Jeff.  Thanks.      

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the days i did… [excellent report(s) snipped] got in at about 9:30 pm.  rachel was not happy.  anyone know a valkyrie named gail hutzler roberts?  … if so, you’ll understand. You mean that guy is *married*? I’m sorry, Jeffy, but I don’t believe that for a second. –Steve (but I still undertand, believe me!!)

was, zimbo, was.  though hooked deeply, jim spat it.  the scars linger, and he ain’t bit since.  if ever there was a punishment from hell, ghr was it.  course, some say jim was a fittin subject… jeff

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(2)     …the watauga is one of those rivers you love to hate.  it too is a delayed harvest stream.  it’s too close to the road/highway.  it suffers too many people clambering about.  it has lots of big fish. it’s masturbation.  you know…not the real thing.  but, hey, it’ll do in a pinch. …you guys will just have to fess up.  you know you do it, too. even fortenberry now admits to having fished over stockers in other than backwoods environs. i have a friend in the video-movie store business.  he wanted to learn a bit about flyfishing.  Having little or nothing to offer him as instruction, and lacking the patience and intelligence of a teacher, i took him and a cooler of beer to the watauga. he’s a fairly stout guy, and watchin him wade had the entertainment value of an elephant on ice. he decided he’d just observe.  i decided he’d save me the trips to the cooler for refreshments. after the third or fourth beer, he decided he’d bring the cooler down to the stream.  he ain’t too slow.   fished the last of the peter charles #24 nits (damn, i’m gonna miss those little bastards) and caught several 10" brook trout.  after about 15 fish, the catchin turned off for about an hour and a half.  the beer drinkin continued uninterrupted. just as i was getting the notion it might be time to go…yeah, the beer was running out…WHAM!  an 18" rainbow beauty hit an #18 olive paradun.  3 weight rod, 7x tippet, and a big fish…with me full of beer.  it doesn’t get much better.  the rainbow leaped a foot or more above the water’s surface several times and fought hard in several runs. when it finally tired enough to be brought in, i lifted him from the water for my friend to see the coloring.  if this was a stocked fish…and, it surely was…it was as remarkable in coloring as any in the wild.  dark back, silvery/white sides with black dots, scarlet-tinge on the gill plate, and a vivid red/pink stripe.  nice damn fish, stocker or not. drank the last beer in celebration of a good fish.  my friend, toasting our final bottles of brew, said…’oh, now i think i understand why you like this so much".  i doubt he truly understood…but maybe next time i won’t feel the need to bring any beer.  …or, who am i kidding, maybe not as much beer anyway.   3.      …fishin with opie… -next installment-

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i’ve missed a few days, and it’s the end of my vacation at the cabin on elk creek.  since the last entry, i’ve fished the n. mills with waldo, the watauga alone and with a non-fishing friend, and upper creek with opie.   the days i didn’t fish…stained the logs on 2 sides of the cabin, vegged out, and wife’s birthday (her 10th year of turning 39). the days i did…         the n. mills river, a delayed harvest stream, is located near asheville in the Pisgah National Forest.  it’s a 1.5 hour drive from boone on a good traffic day. it was not a good traffic day. waldo and i left at dark-o’clock in the morning. we started fishing at about 10 am.  because he’d caught a huge brook trout near the first campground bridge, wally insisted we begin there.  this is a popular stream in proximity to a lot of people (too damn close to civilization).  the state folks dump a lot of fish in the stream to keep the population entertained. even on a weekday, there were too many people fishing the lower sections to suit us, so we’d pull out a walk farther up the stream. on the lower stretch, waldo started out with a #14 something or other (one of the most popular flies among the great unwashed in the tarheel state), and i tied on the surefire, catchem if they’ll be caught, #16 parachute adams.  in a channeled slough of fast water, i had the first hook-up. a nice 12" rainbow.  in the pool ahead of us, fish were rising everywhere.  a couple of guys were fishing down toward us, so we hurried into position to stop their descent.  wally said something about bringing a gun next time, but i allowed as how that was a bit severe, and perhaps he could just hang his old waders from a tree.  anyway, the fish were not taking the flies we had on.  waldo, ever the optimist, stuck with his.  i changed over to a #24 peter charles special.  after i landed my third fish, wally switched to a midge and we proceeded to catch a handful of the witless stockers.  it was fun.  feeling the press of too many folks, we headed upstream.  the n. mills flows through a camping area and then makes a sharp right turn and goes back into the forest.  it’s a fairly level stream with a good trail beside it.  plenty of nice water, with some deeper holes around small ledges and falls.  it was a beautiful day to be in the woods.  the nc mountains are magnificent when the trees are ablaze with their fall colors. we fished upstream for about a mile, catching nice 10 -12" fish all the way.  we saw several 16" – 20" browns and brookies, but didn’t get them.  wally had a nice one rise to his fly, but it slipped the hook. we hiked back to the truck around 5. drank a few beer and ate a sandwich, thinkin we’d begin the drive home at a reasonable hour.  well, i thought i’d fish just a little bit more down by the bridge at the campground.  easy in, easy out, wouldn’t take much time.  this time i started just below the bridge.  stepped into the water and spotted a big rainbow sitting in a V at the tail of a pool. after several different offerings failed, i lost my fly to a grabber-biter-eater (i.e., tree).  as i was tying on an olive dun, a wildlife officer walked up.  oh shit.. after 10 minutes of searching thousands of pockets, i finally located the plastic tape-ticket that serves as a nc license.  the guy asked me if i had seen anyone using livebait. guess it had been a long day and checking folks who weren’t close to the road was too much trouble. i doubt if the tattle-tail enforcement method works too well in the nc mountains… thought about sayin…"yeah, there were 2 guys about 4 miles up, looked like they hiked in…they were smokin those funny cigarettes, and puttin fish in a pack.  they sure were catchin a lot." back to the stream.  the #18 olive dun was a charm.  walt came up just to observe from the bridge.  i brought in 8 to 10 fish in the next 15 minutes.  during the proceedings, i saw two huge shadows moving just under the bridge.  they turned out to be a pair of brook trout of about 22-24".  the biggest brookies i’ve ever seen in the water.  when i pointed them out to waldo, he let out a gasp one would expect from a true fisherman who had walked to a stream without rod $ reel.  so, good gillie/friend that he is, he suggested i tie on a wooly bugger as the big boyz were not interested in the flies i was floating over their heads.  sure enough, first strip of a bugger and the smaller of the two fish slammed it and turned quickly.  i yanked too soon, or she spit it, but the hook snagged the behemoth.  fortunately, the old brood didn’t have much fight and she came in without a lot of trouble.  it was a wonderfully colored, heavy-bodied, hook-jawed fish.  time to go home. got in at about 9:30 pm.  rachel was not happy.  anyone know a valkyrie named gail hutzler roberts?  … if so, you’ll understand. jeff

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Question:

Those damn ducks! Yesterday around 6:00 p.m. I finally finished getting the boat ready for guests for the OpSail parade.  Hosed off the finger piers real nice, too. The local ducks must prefer a clean head because they jumped right up and christened my neatly-Flemished dockline.

   The damn crows "christened" Stinky’s new seat – which was inside the boat, with the top up. They either went inside the boat, let one go, and said "whew! something stinks in here!" and left, or did a Luke Skywalker dive-bomb and pull-up in the side window. Lloyd Sumpter "Stinky" Fibrecraft 14 — It’s better to be at the dock, wishing you were at sea, than at sea, wishing you were at the dock.

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or you could just feed ‘em Alka-Seltzer…..   In our years of boating we’ve tried fake owls and snakes, wind socks and conical piling tops but there seems to be no permanent solution to these gulls who leave huge droppings on our clean and polished decks. Then they fly by overhead laughing at us!  There is no solution to the problem but now there is revenge.  A colleague has developed a shareware PC game called "Gullblaster".  It features rendered seashore scenes and sounds and a sky littered with the enemy seagulls.  Now you can blast them out of the sky without legal implications.   There is also a screen saver called "Picture Saver" available on Steve’s web site.  It is a "slide show" viewer that allows you to display your favorite seashore scenes or boating and fishing pictures that are saved on your PC as graphic images.  Check it out at:   Freeware and shareware screen savers, games, and utilities   If you have problems with this as a link, just paste this site into your viewer’s location window – http://webshed.webjump.com/   —   Regards,   John G.   —   NJ Coastal and ICW – Somers Point / Ocean City

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In our years of boating we’ve tried fake owls and snakes, wind socks and conical piling tops but there seems to be no permanent solution to these gulls who leave huge droppings on our clean and polished decks. Then they fly by overhead laughing at us!  There is no solution to the problem but now there is revenge.  A colleague has developed a shareware PC game called "Gullblaster".  It features rendered seashore scenes and sounds and a sky littered with the enemy seagulls.  Now you can blast them out of the sky without legal implications. There is also a screen saver called "Picture Saver" available on Steve’s web site.  It is a "slide show" viewer that allows you to display your favorite seashore scenes or boating and fishing pictures that are saved on your PC as graphic images.  Check it out at: Freeware and shareware screen savers, games, and utilities If you have problems with this as a link, just paste this site into your viewer’s location window – http://webshed.webjump.com/ — Regards, John G. — NJ Coastal and ICW – Somers Point / Ocean City

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You know they taste like chicken!!

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Those damn ducks! Yesterday around 6:00 p.m. I finally finished getting the boat ready for guests for the OpSail parade.  Hosed off the finger piers real nice, too. The local ducks must prefer a clean head because they jumped right up and christened my neatly-Flemished dockline.

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Question:

It is a big state, what area is she in? — Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail Ernie Harrison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Want to give a friend of mine fly fishing lessons for her birthday She lives in California but would probably also travel out of state Any suggestions Thanks for the help Spot247

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Want to give a friend of mine fly fishing lessons for her birthday She lives in California but would probably also travel out of state Any suggestions Thanks for the help Spot247

Take a look at http://www.flyline.com/ MichaelSmith

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Question:

     Seems like we’ve finally accomplished something?  :-)

and what would that "something" be?         -tgades — Tony Gades. Seattle, WA.  USA http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades/Fishing/fish_page.html email: replace the "this_address_is_wrong" with "tgades"

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 It seems to me that fly casting is using the weight of the line to carry the lure or (fly) to the fish. I’m attracted to this definition…..

At the age of 46, I’d be inclined to agree.  But here’s a story from my youth you may find amusing.  Back in ‘63, I was in Sequoia camping with a ‘Y’ group of youths my age.  We were there for fishing and hiking. ‘Fishing’ was the operative word, since no one had ‘caught’ anything.  At that time, FF wasn’t nearly the designer sport it is today.  I had only seen a couple people doing it and I was a fair distance away:  totally naive to the special gear required for the graceful casts. Taking my self quite seriously, I started whipping a spoon around using my 6′ ft, fiberglass, $12 Thrifty spinning rod and reel.  There I was, whippin that thing back and forth and every once in a while lettin the spoon drag through the pool.  On one of my "backcasts" I literally yanked a little 8 incher right out of the water, totally surprising both of us.  (This was the only trout caught by anyone on the trip!).  Subsequent flailing, for an hour or so produced no more fish.  Go figure.  I guess I put ‘em all down. (The most amazing part of this story is that I still have both of my eyes).  Now you can easily convince this 46 year old that aint flyfishin, but don’t try to convince that 12 year old kid.   Now we’re getting somewhere. Fly fishing is the use of a fly rod to propel anything so light it needs the weight of the line to get anywhere. The use of lightweight bobbers and multiple flies can still be called "fly fishing".

I guess this pretty well rules out spin casting a clear bubble attached above a 6′ leader having a dry fly attached.  Personally, this works for me because the result is to drift flies with a presentation that fools the fish in the same way your defined technique does.  (I don’t do this anymore, but it certainly wouldn’t chap my hide if I say someone plying ff only waters in this fashion, especially if it was a young’un)

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   Seems like we’ve finally accomplished something?  :-)

(hee hee) What is flyfishing ? If you have to ask or try and define it, you’ll never understand it. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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        Seems like we’ve finally accomplished something?  :-) and what would that "something" be?

the first internet gigabyte waste of bandwith for "1997 Useless Threads" category…… — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  It seems to me that fly casting is using the weight of the line to carry the lure or (fly) to the fish. I’m attracted to this definition…..  Now we’re getting somewhere. Fly fishing is the use of a fly rod to propel anything so light it needs the weight of the line to get anywhere. The use of lightweight bobbers and multiple flies can still be called "fly fishing". RALPH may or may not want an amemdment to exclude the use of lightweight spoons or wigglers. Note: that doesn’t mean we can’t fish with bass poppers….It just puts a tight limit on how we categorize them.   Seems like we’ve finally accomplished something?  :-)

Maybe it could be simpler, fly fishing is fishing with a fly line. — Charlie…

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 It seems to me that fly casting is using the weight of the line to carry the lure or (fly) to the fish. I’m attracted to this definition…..

  Now we’re getting somewhere. Fly fishing is the use of a fly rod to propel anything so light it needs the weight of the line to get anywhere. The use of lightweight bobbers and multiple flies can still be called "fly fishing". RALPH may or may not want an amemdment to exclude the use of lightweight spoons or wigglers. Note: that doesn’t mean we can’t fish with bass poppers….It just puts a tight limit on how we categorize them.    Seems like we’ve finally accomplished something?  :-)

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m going to make one post about the definition of ff and then say no more.  It seems to me that fly casting is using the weight of the line to carry the lure or (fly) to the fish. As long as the lure is so light as to require a line to carry it to the fish it seems you are fly casting. As for what is fly fishing, you now have many different lures or (flies) that fit into the definition above. These lures or flies range from #32 up to 8" long or longer. I maintain you are fly fishing as long as you NEED the weight of the line to carry the fly to the fish. I don’t see how the use of boats or strike indicators, or anything else enters into the definition. Certainly, some types of fly fishing are more difficult than others. It doesn’t mean the others aren’t fly fishing. I think we should encourage all kinds of fly fishing. The young person we help now, with his poppers for largemouth, may someday be a #32 hook in-the-film emerger fisherman. That’s all brothers. Hope you all have a great summer of fly fishing. Jim

I’m attracted to this definition having posted something similar some time back. It concentrates on one major factor that makes flyfishing different; the cast. It also seems more consistent with the more ‘catholic’ outlook most flyfishers have these days (includes me) – adopt what works within rather broad confines. I do think though we have to exclude obvious ‘lures’ (spoons spinners etc) but don’t know what to do about "flys" that act like lures –  spoons flies tullis wigglers, plastic bills on bass poppers etc. So many of these things are constructed the same way we tie flies so though I’m tend to be not convinced they are flies I use them rather than condemn them. Ralph H replace "spamsucks" with direct for email reply.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m going to make one post about the definition of ff and then say no more.  It seems to me that fly casting is using the weight of the line to carry the lure or (fly) to the fish. As long as the lure is so light as to require a line to carry it to the fish it seems you are fly casting. As for what is fly fishing, you now have many different lures or (flies) that fit into the definition above. These lures or flies range from #32 up to 8" long or longer. I maintain you are fly fishing as long as you NEED the weight of the line to carry the fly to the fish. I don’t see how the use of boats or strike indicators, or anything else enters into the definition. Certainly, some types of fly fishing are more difficult than others. It doesn’t mean the others aren’t fly fishing. I think we should encourage all kinds of fly fishing. The young person we help now, with his poppers for largemouth, may someday be a #32 hook in-the-film emerger fisherman. That’s all brothers. Hope you all have a great summer of fly fishing. Jim

Hi Jim Good point. I agree it’s a lot more important to help a kid get started than to argue about what fly fishing is. You also have a good summer. Take care & … — Tight Lines ….. Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Catalog,Tips & Tricks, Fishing Reports, & NeverSink at: http://www.btsflyfishing.com

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I’m going to make one post about the definition of ff and then say no more.  It seems to me that fly casting is using the weight of the line to carry the lure or (fly) to the fish. As long as the lure is so light as to require a line to carry it to the fish it seems you are fly casting. As for what is fly fishing, you now have many different lures or (flies) that fit into the definition above. These lures or flies range from #32 up to 8" long or longer. I maintain you are fly fishing as long as you NEED the weight of the line to carry the fly to the fish. I don’t see how the use of boats or strike indicators, or anything else enters into the definition. Certainly, some types of fly fishing are more difficult than others. It doesn’t mean the others aren’t fly fishing. I think we should encourage all kinds of fly fishing. The young person we help now, with his poppers for largemouth, may someday be a #32 hook in-the-film emerger fisherman. That’s all brothers. Hope you all have a great summer of fly fishing. Jim

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Question:

Looking for a few good crayfish fly patterns.

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Looking for a few good crayfish fly patterns.

Leasa:  Look for the Bob Clouser pattern, which works well for me – at least in Pennsylvania waters.  Sorry I don’t have a reference or description, but you could call his shop near Middletown, Pa. (outside of Harrisburg) and I’m sure he would provide a description and materials. Mark Faulkner

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Looking for a few good crayfish fly patterns.

I saw one last night in Kaufman’s "Fly Tyers Nymph Manual".  It’s a pattern by Dave Whitlock. -Burton

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Bob has Clouser Crayfish kits put together that have everything you need to tie them….directions, materials, hooks, and even a sample fly. If you don’t tie he will mail order them. Clouser’s Fly Shop 101 Ulrich St. Middletown, PA 17057 Ph (717)944-6451

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Hi Leasa-    Ya wanna catch fish or fishermen? Lots of realistic crayfish patterns out there, none work better than a wooly bugger; most don’t work as well.    -Ralph

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Path:

news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net!news-m01.ny.us.ibm.net!newsfeed.uk.ibm.net!news.stea lth. net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.texas.net!news-xfer.netaxs.com!newsfeeds.sol.net!news pump Looking for a few good crayfish fly patterns.

Try a LARGE Wooly Bugger in a bronze/brown with some copper Krystal Flash in the tail and some orange in the wing. Personally, I’ve tied and fished "imitative" Crayfish patterns with good luck in low light on REAL warm days (overcast) but they don’t seem to catch very much better.  Yes, they are tied "reverse" with the tail at the eye, and you weight the "front" of the fly, where the claws are so when you retrieve it, you raise the rod tip, strip line and allow it to fall sort of naturally. Larry #:)#

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"Leasa S. Tucker"  writes: Looking for a few good crayfish fly patterns.

Clouser’s crawdad has been my best underwater fly from Mar to Oct for the last 3 yrs.  I get them from Murray’s Fly Shop in Edinburg,VA. Working em close to a stump in fast water will pull out some beautiful fish…good luck-Joe

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The best crayfish patern I have ever seen is the Pheasant Tailed Crayfish. It was modified in 1988 by Bob Morenski and reworked. You can get the pattern from Mark Olinger, of Daktoa Flies or if you dont tie he can crank some. Deadly on Big Browns and Smallmouth Bass. You can find Mark’s address and stuff off the Lake Fly Fishing Pages. htttp://www.articfire.com/arcfire/fishing.htm. This is one fly pattern that works! — Bob Sheedy Angling Adventures North Lake Fly Fishing On-Line Magazine Home of MASTER ANGLER Fishing Software http://www.articfire.com/arcfire/fishing.htm

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Looking for a few good crayfish fly patterns. Try a LARGE Wooly Bugger in a bronze/brown with some copper Krystal Flash in the tail and some orange in the wing.

I’m not sure at what point you start splitting hairs, but crayfish can vary widely in terms of color, and if they are a bright red, or tan, or green, or even have a bluish-black cast to them, a brown crayfish imitation probably wouldn’t have a great result. It’s just like fishing with dries, sometimes they’ll hit an Adams with abandon, other times your gray-olive flies are ignored in favor of the olive-gray numbers…<g Tight lines, TC Tom Chandler   "When in doubt, have two guys come through the door with guns."                                               –Raymond Chandler

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A General Practioner, a common Northwest steelhead fly is a good crayfish immitation, as is the wooly bugger.  The key is getting down on the bottom and giving the appropriate short quick strips and pauses. I think the larger trouts’ interest and line-snapping voraciousness for these things is in relation to their shell hardness.  Biologists please correct me but I have read that crawfish molt and are soft-shelled and delicious during full moons.   Hold onto that rod when you do this. Mark VInsel — http://www.lanminds.com/local/vinnie/gallery.html

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Question:

Now that summer is more than half over, thoughts about a mid winter break are stirring. What are the best places in bahamas for bonefishing holiday in terms of price, ease to get to, accomodations, and, of course, fishing opportunties. How far in advance must one book. what are the best travel people to use. I(s there a better choice from the North east US? Your thoughts are appreciated.

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Now that summer is more than half over, thoughts about a mid winter break are stirring. What are the best places in bahamas for bonefishing holiday in terms of price, ease to get to, accomodations, and, of course, fishing opportunties. How far in advance must one book. what are the best travel people to use. I(s there a better choice from the North east US? Your thoughts are appreciated.

November is a good time for a fall trip to the Bahamas, the FL Keys or Central America. There are many excellent destinations to choose from. Call Frontier Travel at 1-800-245-1950 and they can send you some good info on many lodges. William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA

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Hello all:       I have been fly-fishing only a little while, and discovered the joy of small-mouth fishing the James River in Virginia.  Since its summer and the trout are sullen, it has been a great place to keep practicing my casting.  I have already gleaned a lot of information about using crayfish and dace style patterns, wooly buggers, etc., and I have been fishing the seams, bank overhangs, riffles, and the like.  Generally though, I have approached small-mouthing like trout.  Does anyone have suggestions specific to small-mouth bass that differ or are unique to this species, that improve your luck.  Also, any idiosyncracies of the James River? Best spots, places to avoid like the plague, etc.  I would appreciate any and all information, posted or e-mailed.   Dan Johnson

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      I have been fly-fishing only a little while, and discovered the joy of small-mouth fishing the James River in Virginia.   Dan Johnson

Dan, I enjoyed fishing near Pony Pastures in Richmond.  It does seem to get crowded at times, but not with ffishers.  There’s a good Orvis dealer in Richmond that has a lot of smallmouth knowledge.  Also check with Harry Murray of Murray’s Fly Shop.  He’s a smallmouth guru.  Let me know how you do…                                           Randy

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Dan, We’ve been fishing the Wingina to Scottsville stretch for about 20 years now.  There’s some beautiful water along the way and only two areas that can be a little hairy in the boats.  It’s best as a three day float.   Just don’t go weekends because of all of the tubers on the river. Doug

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Does any one have a pattern for tying the viva fly an gif or jpg would also be nice thanks in advance Julian

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Does any one have a pattern for tying the viva fly an gif or jpg would also be nice thanks in advance Julian

hi julian hook: s/s 10 body: black chenille,ribbed silver tail: flou green floss wing: black marabou tight lines keith —  Your worst day fishing beats your best day at work

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Check out the AMI Recreation Network: http://www.aminews.com/ami Fly fishing, fishing, outdoor and travel news. Updated weekly. Looking for news items and fishing reports. AMI News is largest recreation news bureau in nation.

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Check out the AMI Recreation Network: http://www.aminews.com/ami Fly fishing, fishing, outdoor and travel news.

Phhhhpptt! Pretty weak, imho…I won’t waste the bandwidth there again…. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< < Digital Equipment Corp.    Alpha Server Engineering  < <           "Read this and nobody gets hurt"           < <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

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Normally I just give any fish I catch a slurp of beer before I let it go.   Sometimes a puff off my Cuentes Fuega, if I’m really in a good mood. Tim Walker

Most of the fish I catch prefer a fine Macanudo, but I’ve noticed no preference for any particular beer. Grant  

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : Bob feeding wild trout in Montana may not make the F&G happy but its makes : us who release them smile. Write me on e-mail about feeding trout because :                                                                     Bryant : Blewett STOP IT  !!! STOP IT RIGHT NOW DAMMIT !!!   Feeding Wild Trout ? You *MUST* be joking, RIGHT ?!?!? This really, really irritates me and I’ll flame until the damn cows come into the barn.  What are you trying to do here ?  Be ‘nice’ to the little fishies ?  What do you want…do you want them to come around like little collies when you get home from work ? You wanna *FEED* wild trout ?  Stay out of the damn river bed and let the little 400 per sq feet caddis worms make it to another instar.  You wanna be ‘nice’ to the fishie…don’t handle it at all out of the water. I’m sorry, but IMHO this is a really stupid idea. Tim Walker

Have to agree with Tim.  This bizarre practice, of which I have not heard until joining this newsgroup, smacks of trout training.  Now granted, most of us enjoy fishing for non-native species in non-natural environments (e.g., rainbow and brown trout in tailwater areas), so decrying the practice as ‘unnatural’ may be pointless; still, once you have shocked a fish’s system as hard as we do when we catch them, it seems outrageous to think that force-feeding them a grub before release can do anything but hurt them.  If you need to "pay the gods" or in some other way assuage your guilt about this sport, I suggest thinking seriously about what happens when we fish.  The bottom line is this:   Fishing KILLS FISH, whether we release them or not.  A 4% mortality rate on released fish seems like wishful thinking; and even if true, that’s 4 dead fish for every hundred you release.  It seems like some twisted form of denial to claim that we are helping trout by fishing for them.   Our "help" is a by-product of the fact that we care so much about them. Trying to obscure the fatal nature of our sport shows, I think, a lack of responsibility for our actions.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Forgive me if this thread has come and gone…I haven’t seen it in the approx. six months I’ve been on the net. Whilst flipping through one of my many catalogs (Orvis? Cabela’s?) I came across the "accessories" page and found all of those ludicrous gadgets that no one in their right mind should pay money for like long handled bug nets, mesh mits to wear on your hand to "sift the drift", etc.  This section also contained what looked like one of those basting tubes you use to baste your turkey, i.e. it looks like a large plastic medicine dropper.  This contraption turned out to be a stomach pump, used to check out what a fish was eating without chopping it up. I had heard that these things were out there, but had never seen one before and it got me thinking…how many people actually use such things?  Is the act of pumping out a fish’s stomach traumatic to the fish?  My guess is that the potential is there to do some serious damage.  Why would you use one of these things, anyway…if you’ve caught a fish, then you are using an imitation that looked enough like what the fish wanted to eat, enough to fool the fish, anyway.      Besides, isn’t much of the fun in flyfishing the mental aspects of solving the puzzle of what the fish are eating (and getting a reasonable facsimile in front of them)? Using one of these things seems to me a lot like doing a crossword puzzle by copying the solution from the back of the book. However, this concern of mine is secondary to my concern for the welfare of a pumped out fish.  Any thoughts? Paul DiConza       NY Capital District Angler

After reading this, my first reaction was if the fish wasn’t tramatized by the pump, then he probably had a reduced chance of surviving due to having an empty stomach and having to fill it again. This got me to thinking…. I know it’s weird, but what if before you release a fish you drop a food pellet or something similar into it’s gullet? A caught fish has to expend energy to fight, and if we are releasing fish, we want them to survive. Won’t their chances of survival be increased if we feed them before we release them? Maybe a fisheries biologist can concoct a high protien multi-vitamin pellet to give the fish before it’s released. Perhaps we can tip the scales in favor of survival instead of making the fish use precious energy needed for making through the next winter. Any comments? Darryl

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 A feeding frenzy breaks the placidity of the surface as wild voracious brown and rainbows(B.W.-Before Whirl) attack the pellets like blues on shad. He is prepared with his double pom pom chow fly he just bought at the Orvis

.shop.  He casts.  Hooks.  Lands.  He has to beach the 11" brut. Use cigarrete butts, they float well and their free. (accept at Orvis)

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: Normally I just give any fish I catch a slurp of beer before I let it go.   : Sometimes a puff off my Cuentes Fuega, if I’m really in a good mood. C’mon, you’re just blowing smoke up our…gills. Rick — T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Assistant professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    |  These University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    |  opinions Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. |  are mine.  

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STOP IT  !!! STOP IT RIGHT NOW DAMMIT !!!   Feeding Wild Trout ? You *MUST* be joking, RIGHT ?!?!? This really, really irritates me and I’ll flame until the damn cows come into the barn.  What are you trying to do here ?  Be ‘nice’ to the little fishies ?  What do you want…do you want them to come around like little collies when you get home from work ? You wanna *FEED* wild trout ?  Stay out of the damn river bed and let the little 400 per sq feet caddis worms make it to another instar.  You wanna be ‘nice’ to the fishie…don’t handle it at all out of the water. I’m sorry, but IMHO this is a really stupid idea. Tim Walker

    Tim, you seem to be a bit upset.

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I have been giving C&R fish nice fat grubs for the last several years. My only problem is, how do I explain to the game warden that "no I was not using bait…." On some rivers, you get to know some of the regular large trout.  Some guys bring in food, or toss peices of their lunch to these fish.  Peices of bologna, or wounded grasshoppers found on shore.  They just toss the food to the fish swimming in the river.  Somehow this seems a little more humane  and a lot easier.

And in some states, this could be called "chumming" and is illegal. IMHO, the practice doesn’t make sense anyway.  After being caught, a fish will be tired and scared, and the last thing it wants to do is eat dinner. It usually wants to go hide in a hole and recover for a while. A properly played fish shouldn’t need an extra meal to survive. — Hewlett Packard Co.                         Fort Collins, Colorado       "Midnight shakes the memory as a madman shakes a dead geranium."                                             – T.S. Eliot

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – … Is the act of pumping out a fish’s stomach traumatic to the fish?   I don’t think anyone in their right mind would think they could do this on a fish to be released, …. Are these things marketed for use on fish to be released? Mark Vinsel Mark, you make a good point which I hadn’t thought about.  I just assumed that stomach pumps were in fact marketed for fish to be released.  It never occurred to me that one would want to use a pump on a dead fish…. Paul DiConza

I’ve seen fly fishing videos that demonstrate the use of a stomach pump on fish to be released, and that are fully expected to live.  I feel that there are many things that a flyfisher can do to increse a fish’s chances of survival, and certainly the less a fish is handled the better.  I try to release a fish at my feet while it is still in the water, by just grasping the fly and giving a quick little backwards twist.  I rarely touch a fish at all unless I plan to keep it.  On the other hand I am sure that those who use a stomach pump on a fish are trying to inteligently study the eating habits of the fish they catch, while still giving the fish a "good" chance of survival.   I hope the fish do survive, and I think that most could, if the angler is conscientious about all aspects of the catch/pump/and release process.  Let’s try not to be to hasty about condemning others about their fishing beliefs.   After all, those who don’t fish at all give the fish a much higher chance of survival.  Where does that place us on the rightousness continuum? Provo, Utah

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I don’t know, and I maybe putting my foot in my mouth, but I have read several books and articles about using stomach pumps on fish.  Some scientists say that if you are careful (and quick), using the pump will not hurt the fish in the slightest. -Paul *                       *    "To catch a river unguarded is less a        * * Paul "Cousin" Graham   *    matter of where to look than of when, and   * *                          *  I have a secret time."-Ted Leeson           *

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – … Is the act of pumping out a fish’s stomach traumatic to the fish?   Yes, unless the fish was dead first. I don’t think anyone in their right mind would think they could do this on a fish to be released, especially considering the clear correlation between small time out of water and death rate. I often check the contents of fish I keep, and it is fascinating. I have found two different fish caught from the same section of the same lake at the same time, each gorged with a different specific nymph. I have also set the contents in a cup of water over a weekend trip and watched most of the nymphs come back to life and hatch. A pump is not necessary. Are these things marketed for use on fish to be released? Mark Vinsel

Mark, you make a good point which I hadn’t thought about.  I just assumed that stomach pumps were in fact marketed for fish to be released.  It never occurred to me that one would want to use a pump on a dead fish, when it is so easy to examine the contents of the stomach when the fish is cut open. Maybe some people are too squeamish?!  However, in the back of my mind I seem to recollect a story I read where people were using these things on live fish and releasing the fish to die in the river.  I hope this practice isn’t widespread. Paul DiConza NY Capital District Angler

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Are these things marketed for use on fish to be released?

Yes!  I think it’s a cruel hoax on both fisherfolk and fish to even sell these things.  Now that I’m thinking about it, I beleive I shall send a letter to all my FF supliers and ask them to discontinue carrying them.  If you want to kill and eat a fish, feel free to examine it’s innards.  If you are going to let it go, then please do your best to insure that your efforts are rewarded with the fish surviving so I can catch it later.  Factors that have been shown to improve survival of C&R fish are:         1.      Use barbless hooks.         2.      Use single point hooks.         3.      Use artificial baits (eg flies)         4.      Handle the fish as little as possible         5.      Avoid taking the fish out of water Good luck, and may you get lots of practice in the art of C&R. . Lenny Bloksberg . .

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I agree that pumping the inerds of a fish is nasty and mean thing to do. Also, I imagine that it takes a lot of good fishing time away. Are we on the stream to peer into the gizzards of a lovely fish or enjoy the environment and …  Of course, if you’re trying to retrieve a fly… –grant

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… Is the act of pumping out a fish’s stomach traumatic to the fish?  

Yes, unless the fish was dead first. I don’t think anyone in their right mind would think they could do this on a fish to be released, especially considering the clear correlation between small time out of water and death rate. I often check the contents of fish I keep, and it is fascinating. I have found two different fish caught from the same section of the same lake at the same time, each gorged with a different specific nymph. I have also set the contents in a cup of water over a weekend trip and watched most of the nymphs come back to life and hatch. A pump is not necessary. Are these things marketed for use on fish to be released? Mark Vinsel May the wild ones live, and may their progeny break the tippets of our grandchildren. Visit my gallery: http://www.lanminds.com/local/vinnie/gallery.HTML

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Forgive me if this thread has come and gone…I haven’t seen it in the approx. six months I’ve been on the net. Whilst flipping through one of my many catalogs (Orvis? Cabela’s?) I came across the "accessories" page and found all of those ludicrous gadgets that no one in their right mind should pay money for like long handled bug nets, mesh mits to wear on your hand to "sift the drift", etc.  This section also contained what looked like one of those basting tubes you use to baste your turkey, i.e. it looks like a large plastic medicine dropper.  This contraption turned out to be a stomach pump, used to check out what a fish was eating without chopping it up.       I had heard that these things were out there, but had never seen one before and it got me thinking…how many people actually use such things?  Is the act of pumping out a fish’s stomach traumatic to the fish?  My guess is that the potential is there to do some serious damage.  Why would you use one of these things, anyway…if you’ve caught a fish, then you are using an imitation that looked enough like what the fish wanted to eat, enough to fool the fish, anyway.      Besides, isn’t much of the fun in flyfishing the mental aspects of solving the puzzle of what the fish are eating (and getting a reasonable facsimile in front of them)? Using one of these things seems to me a lot like doing a crossword puzzle by copying the solution from the back of the book. However, this concern of mine is secondary to my concern for the welfare of a pumped out fish.  Any thoughts? Paul DiConza     NY Capital District Angler

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