Question:

Well, I’ve hinted at it; and now it’s time to start writing in ink.   I’m proposing a ROFF mini-clave in Altmar, NY to catch a few salmon, drink a few beers, and tell a few lies.   At this late date, accommodations in the entire area should be nigh on impossible to obtain; but I have already reserved two large rooms at Malinda’s for Thurs., October 17 thru the 20th. One room is essentially full already; but the other sleeps 3 or 4 should any intrepid souls want to make definite plans for that weekend. I’m willing to bet that most folks interested will already be familiar with the area; but any questions about the fishing, fly selection, places to eat, lodges, etc. will be cheerfully answered for those who are not; and I’ll even put up a web site if necessary. So consider this a preliminary announcement.   More info will be provided as needed. Joe F.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, I’ve hinted at it; and now it’s time to start writing in ink.   I’m proposing a ROFF mini-clave in Altmar, NY to catch a few salmon, drink a few beers, and tell a few lies.   At this late date, accommodations in the entire area should be nigh on impossible to obtain; but I have already reserved two large rooms at Malinda’s for Thurs., October 17 thru the 20th. One room is essentially full already; but the other sleeps 3 or 4 should any intrepid souls want to make definite plans for that weekend. I’m willing to bet that most folks interested will already be familiar with the area; but any questions about the fishing, fly selection, places to eat, lodges, etc. will be cheerfully answered for those who are not; and I’ll even put up a web site if necessary. So consider this a preliminary announcement.   More info will be provided as needed. Joe F.

Joe- It’s a really busy semester for me, but I might be able to swing by on the weekend (yeah, I know about the crowds, but it will be for the comeraderie and not the fishing).  Joe Verdone might be interested as well.  I don’t think we’ll be needing accomodations, we’re a stone’s throw away — Scott Reverse first field of address to reply

Response:

Well, I’ve hinted at it; and now it’s time to start writing in ink.   I’m proposing a ROFF mini-clave in Altmar, NY to catch a few salmon, drink a few beers, and tell a few lies.  

Those salmon aren’t, like, trying to spawn, are they? — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Well, I’ve hinted at it; and now it’s time to start writing in ink. I’m proposing a ROFF mini-clave in Altmar, NY to catch a few salmon, drink a few beers, and tell a few lies. Those salmon aren’t, like, trying to spawn, are they?

They sure are.  They swim right into the loving hands of the folks at the hatchery, where the hens get squeezed like bagpipes and the males are emptied like a tube of toothpaste. Pete

Response:

Those salmon aren’t, like, trying to spawn, are they? They sure are.

In that case, I’m afraid it’s unethical. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

In that case, I’m afraid it’s unethical.

Ethics on the Salmon River are as rare as a 2 – minute steak. Pete Collin

Response:

Pete?  "Flyfishing," is not a generalization sport which is as rare as a 1 minute steak. George Gehrke :  ) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In that case, I’m afraid it’s unethical. Ethics on the Salmon River are as rare as a 2 – minute steak. Pete Collin

Response:

Question:

I combine backpacking and flyfishing.  I have an old pair of very light weight wading shoes which are falling apart and I need to replace them.  Who sells the lightest wading shoes (barring sandels which do not protect the toes)?

Chota Brookies are the lightest I have seen. — Charlie…

Response:

Gary,   Get a pair of tennies, buy a felt re-sole kit, drive some aluminum nail through the felt, cut the nails off flush and cement it to the tennies with the nail heads against the shoe sole.  This isn’t the best foot protection, but provides economical, light weight, slip proof waders. Ernie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I combine backpacking and flyfishing.  I have an old pair of very light weight wading shoes which are falling apart and I need to replace them.  Who sells the lightest wading shoes (barring sandels which do not protect the toes)? Thanks, Gary Connors

Response:

I like my "dan bailey lightweight wading shoes"  about $45, really light and durable for me anyway.  They smash really flat to fit in a backpack also. Patagonias look like the best lightweight felts to me, but i bet they’re big bucks. bruce h Before you buy.

Response:

… Patagonias look like the best lightweight felts to me, but i bet they’re big bucks.

They look that way to me too, Bruce. I too backpack & flyfish and after some scary, near death acrobatics while wading in Teva sandals, I’ve been hauling my heavy felt soled boots in the backpack. I got a good look at Steve’s Patagonia boots in North Carolina and while I have no first hand (foot) experience with them, I think they’ll be my next purchase in wading boots. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

I combine backpacking and flyfishing.  I have an old pair of very light weight wading shoes which are falling apart and I need to replace them.  Who sells the lightest wading shoes (barring sandels which do not protect the toes)? Thanks, Gary Connors

In addition to the other responses, you might want to check out Five-Ten water shoes. They are intended primarily for paddlers, but they will do in a pinch as lightweight, warm-water wading shoes. See http://www.fiveten.net/Product/water.html (no endorsement, liminable or subliminable, is intended or implied)

Response:

I combine backpacking and flyfishing.  … In addition to the other responses, you might want to check out Five-Ten water shoes. …

5.10 rubber soles may be OK for some wading, but if you’re wading on rocks you’ll want felt soles. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

I too backpack & flyfish and after some scary, near death acrobatics while wading in Teva sandals, I’ve been hauling my heavy felt soled boots in the backpack.

I glued felt to the bottoms of an old pair of Teva’s and they work pretty well.   Willi

Response:

Patagonia makes the best lightweight wading boots I know of. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Patagonias for me! I bought a pair last Fall and have never regretted it. They are very well built and lightweight to boot.

I wore out my pair last year, sent them back for new felt soles, and they sent me a brand new pair of boots. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

I combine backpacking and flyfishing.  I have an old pair of very light weight wading shoes which are falling apart and I need to replace them.  Who sells the lightest wading shoes (barring sandels which do not protect the toes)? Thanks, Gary Connors

Response:

My kid brother’s worn-out size 14 basketball shoes. Glue on felt soles. Use ‘em as camp shoes too, if you don’t mind wet feet. — "Cogito cogito ergo cogito sum" — Ambrose Bierce – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Who sells the lightest wading shoes

Response:

Patagonias for me! I bought a pair last Fall and have never regretted it. They are very well built and lightweight to boot. Drifter

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – … Patagonias look like the best lightweight felts to me, but i bet they’re big bucks.

Response:

I have a pair of hodgeman bantam weights that are extremely light "dry"…some of the seams blew out after about 11 months use,(1 year warranty), just got a new pair on warranty. I agree with Ken, what works best for me is to hike them in. Tim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – … Patagonias look like the best lightweight felts to me, but i bet they’re big bucks. They look that way to me too, Bruce. I too backpack & flyfish and after some scary, near death acrobatics while wading in Teva sandals, I’ve been hauling my heavy felt soled boots in the backpack. I got a good look at Steve’s Patagonia boots in North Carolina and while I have no first hand (foot) experience with them, I think they’ll be my next purchase in wading boots. — Ken Fortenberry

Before you buy.

Response:

Orvis has a tennis shoe type wading shoe

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I combine backpacking and flyfishing.  I have an old pair of very light weight wading shoes which are falling apart and I need to replace them. Who sells the lightest wading shoes (barring sandels which do not protect the toes)? Thanks, Gary Connors

Response:

In addition to the other responses, you might want to check out Five-Ten water shoes. They are intended primarily for paddlers, but they will do in a pinch as lightweight, warm-water wading shoes. See http://www.fiveten.net/Product/water.html (no endorsement, liminable or subliminable, is intended or implied)

I have a pair of the 5/10 shoes, with aqua-stealth soles.  They are sooooo good that I got my wife a pair.  They were on sale at REI for $50 (half off). For the first time, I was able to wade the E Walker with no slipping at all (bowling balls covered with snot). Bought ‘em a size big so they fit over my wader booties.   Good luck. Dick Weinkle

Response:

I have a pair of the 5/10 shoes, with aqua-stealth soles.  They are sooooo good that I got my wife a pair.  They were on sale at REI for $50 (half off).

Going completely OT:   Michael Jackson went to K-Mart because he heard boys pants were half off.

Response:

Question:

I was up to Kolob (as the locals say) about three years ago.  They were draining it for dam repairs.  I know they have completed repairs, refilled, and restocked it.  Has anyone been there LATELY and can tell me about current fishing conditions? I have a brand new never been used flyfishing rig.  What are some good flies for that lake? Thanks for the info.  I will write when I return and let you know how I did.  ( I will tell you in advance that they will ALL be big.) Steve Illegitimi non carborundum.

Response:

Go to www.utahfishfinder.com for the latest reports on ALL the hot fishing spots, what you’ll catch, and what they’re biting… I’m not a flyfisherman, but the Green River below Flaming Gorge seems to be a popular spot for flies… Paul – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was up to Kolob (as the locals say) about three years ago.  They were draining it for dam repairs.  I know they have completed repairs, refilled, and restocked it.  Has anyone been there LATELY and can tell me about current fishing conditions? I have a brand new never been used flyfishing rig.  What are some good flies for that lake? Thanks for the info.  I will write when I return and let you know how I did.  ( I will tell you in advance that they will ALL be big.) Steve Illegitimi non carborundum.

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Question:

Why thank you kindly gents.

(another sonnet snipped) Mike:  you’re most welcome. Your literary skills are most welcome here, and always appreciated.   Mark Faulkner

Response:

A talent like Mike’s should not go unpunished, I suggest we all raise our glasses of Old Grouse in a toast to him. — Ernie Harrison

Response:

A talent like Mike’s should not go unpunished, I suggest we all raise our glasses of Old Grouse in a toast to him. — Ernie Harrison

my apologies but I drink Grant’s. I’ll hoist one for Mike tonight. Not hard to persuade me eh? Ralph H "I could be bounded in a nutshell, and count myself a king of infinite space, were it not that I have bad dreams." – Hamlet

Response:

A talent like Mike’s should not go unpunished, I suggest we all raise our glasses of Old Grouse in a toast to him.

He is so good in fact that I was thinking that he’s like an ‘online poetry synthesis machine’. ….I was wondering if he could not charge people to make poetry out of whatever they like. …he could have an interactive web site. "RhymeTime" …and since people could log in and get instant prose it could be. "Real-Time RhymeTime" You go Mike. — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A talent like Mike’s should not go unpunished, I suggest we all raise our glasses of Old Grouse in a toast to him. He is so good in fact that I was thinking that he’s like an ‘online poetry synthesis machine’. ….I was wondering if he could not charge people to make poetry out of whatever they like. …he could have an interactive web site. "RhymeTime" …and since people could log in and get instant prose it could be. "Real-Time RhymeTime" You go Mike. — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

I agree Timbo…..in fact, as I offer my salud later today, I’ll know that we are very lucky to have Mike here at ROFF and be blessed with his style and wit. –Wataugan "is it 4pm yet?" Walt

Response:

Why thank you kindly gents. Glad you find the rhymes pleasing, or even perhaps a bit teasing, I hope they amuse, and are not too abstruse, and keep you constantly wheezing ! I raise my glass here too, it couldnt be done without you, for a rhyme or two, you give me the cue, and sometimes even a few ! So here is my return toast, to the stalwart ROFFIAN host, cheers ! Good health, long life and wealth, to you all,  but the drinkers the most ! Tight lines ! Mike Connor

Response:

(timbo’s post snipped) I agree Timbo…..in fact, as I offer my salud later today, I’ll know that we are very lucky to have Mike here at ROFF and be blessed with his style and wit. –Wataugan "is it 4pm yet?" Walt

        as a matter of fact, i think he’s so *damn* good that i intend to toast him at least five or six times before 10 pm.  by 8:15 he will be runnin line for line with robert frost.  and saturday night, he’ll be neck and neck with w. shakespeare hissownself! wayno, always willing to recognize talent – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

I agree Timbo…..in fact, as I offer my salud later today, I’ll know that we are very lucky to have Mike here at ROFF and be blessed with his style and wit.

(ahem) 5pm! It’s time to reboot, Scrolling away, ROFF’s always a hoot! Tho’ when I click onto Connor, It’s always an honor, That everything else said is moot. Tony Ritter www.gonefishing-gs.com

Response:

A couple of generations advance over the old ‘bot eh? Ralph H

Very good Ralph. –Wataugan "love a good touche" Walt

Response:

A talent like Mike’s should not go unpunished, I suggest we all raise our glasses of Old Grouse in a toast to him. He is so good in fact that I was thinking that he’s like an ‘online poetry synthesis machine’.

 A couple of generations advance over the old ‘bot eh? Ralph H "I could be bounded in a nutshell, and count myself a king of infinite space, were it not that I have bad dreams." – Hamlet

Response:

_______ Can’t begin to tell you how much more I like that fly fishing handle of "T-Bone" much better?! There is no other name that explains you better.  Salt of the earth.  Western Bone Bred, and bad ass on the stream.

Question:

Am planning a family trip to Oahu and keep wondering if I should take along a saltwater outfit. Haven’t been able to find out anything about the practicality of doing so. (Although I know that in some places they do some blue water flyfishing.) Anyway, I would appreciate any info. — Larry

Response:

Hi Larry, Fishing around Oahu is bad.  We have too many fishermen and not enough fish.  This morning’s paper summed it up:

Question:

i’ll be vacationing in hampton beach new hampshire, and would appreciate advice on good spots for either stripers or smallies. what about the inlet and back waters at hampton beach or the mouth of the merrymack river at the mass border? what flies are working well? thanks.

Response:

i’ll be vacationing in hampton beach new hampshire, and would appreciate advice on good spots for either stripers or smallies. what about the inlet and back waters at hampton beach or the mouth of the merrymack river at the mass border? what flies are working well? thanks.

Reel-Time has weekly fly fishing reports for the Merrimack River, and has recently been expanded to cover the NH and Maine Coast.  I write about the Merrimack and can tell you that the Merrimack has been doing well.  Olive/white clousers and Chartreuse/white clousers have been taking fish.  The URL’s in my sig. — Mark N. Cahill For E-mail remove the _Remove_This from the reply to address. http://www.geocities.com/Baja/3297/fishing.htm Mark Cahill’s Fishing New Engand -Daily Fishing News http://www.reel-time.com/ The Internet Journal of Saltwater Fly Fishing – Metropolitan Boston Regional Editor

Response:

Question:

Love Dogfishin’.  We catch 5 or 6 small bluegill and carefully chop off heads so that the guts are trailing.  Up here in Michigan, they don’t get 10 lbs. but a five or six pounder is a beauty.  Never eat them, but they make a great compost. Ed

Response:

Love Dogfishin’.  We catch 5 or 6 small bluegill and carefully chop off heads so that the guts are trailing.  Up here in Michigan, they don’t get 10 lbs. but a five or six pounder is a beauty.  Never eat them, but they make a great compost. Ed

A true conservationist. No wonder we get stupid postings from animal rights types if prople are going to post rubbish like this. Cheers Tight Lines Rod

Response:

I have caught bowfins (aka grinnel) many times.  I love to catch them, and I agree that they fight like demons.  I may be able to shed some light on the "trash fish" reputation, however.  Grinnel are just no good to eat.  First, you will have trouble cleaning one.  If you rinse the fillets under running water, or soak them for verylong, they simply dissolve.  If you decide to cook them without rinsing, the cooked meat has the consistency of cream of wheat.  On top of that, they often taste muddy. BUT, I can catch another fish to eat.  NOTHING fights like a bowfin.   Release them and they will grow BIG.  my largest to date was just over 12 lbs.  

I saw one caught off the shore on Lake Erie last year.  I had no clue what it was.  Posted a question on here and got many replies.  It just amazed me that there was a fresh water fish that I didn’t recognize. It did put up a strong fight, and was about 24 inches long.  Looked like a blast from our prehistoric past to me. BJA Still looking for a 23′ Bayliner Trophy (or anything else in my price range), soon going to give up and buy a new one.

Response:

| I have caught bowfins (aka grinnel) many times.  I love to catch them, | and I agree that they fight like demons.  I may be able to shed some | light on the "trash fish" reputation, however.  Grinnel are just no good | to eat.  First, you will have trouble cleaning one.  If you rinse the | fillets under running water, or soak them for verylong, they simply | dissolve.  If you decide to cook them without rinsing, the cooked meat | has the consistency of cream of wheat.  On top of that, they often taste | muddy. | BUT, I can catch another fish to eat.  NOTHING fights like a bowfin.   | Release them and they will grow BIG.  my largest to date was just over 12 | lbs.   Is this the same as the shovelbill catfish? Seems to me that redfish used to be considered a trashfish that was fun to catch, but lousy on the table. At least until Chef Paul began blackening them and then it became an industry. Heat up your skillet! Before I knew what they were, I caught and fried up a small freshwater drum. Yeeeeuuuucccchhhhh!

Response:

I find it hard to believe that this fantastic fighting fish is shunned by bass fisherman everywhere I go as a no good trash fish. Does anyone know how this fish got such a bad reputation?

I’m the same way about Chain Pickerel.  I frequent Caddo in East Texas, and they have bowfin (never caught one of those before, though) and chain pickerel (a kin to the pike).  I go to Caddo specifically to catch (and release) Pickerel, and even hired a guide to help me find it when I got my first shut-out ever.  The guide?  He was more like, "uh, yeah, yeah I can help you find those (spit, spit)".  They’re wild fighters and with their long thin bodies (leverage), a 2-pounder feels like a 6-pound largemouth. I am continually amazed that people can be fanatical about one kind of fishing yet scorn others.This kind of thing is very widepsreadd, with people having bias against fish species or techniques (bait vs artificial vs fly). I believe that I am extremely

I’ll fish for anything too.  There have been days when I’d be happy to catch a tiny GAR, just to make sure I really did have a hook on the end of the line!  People argue about fishing methods, lure types, brands, colors, and species.  Then you have the bass folks that hate catching anything under 5 pounds.  When the going gets tough for me, I break out the ultralight tackle and fish for bream!   Of course, I say all of this and I have my biases too.  Some people love fishing for carp, but I can’t stand them.  I’m also not really crazy about gar.  Maybe I have an adversion to anything with armidillo type skin.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I find it hard to believe that this fantastic fighting fish is shunned by bass fisherman everywhere I go as a no good trash fish. Does anyone know how this fish got such a bad reputation? Can anyone out there attest to the culinary delights of the Bowfin? What is the problem with catching a 5 to 10 pound fish that fights and jumps twice as hard as any bass I ever caught? Someone, Please, enlighten I am continually amazed that people can be fanatical about one kind of fishing yet scorn others.This kind of thing is very widepsreadd, with people having bias against fish species or techniques (bait vs artificial vs fly). I believe that I am extremely fortunate in that I will fish for just about anything, and I will use just about any technique which will catch a fish. I believe that this opens up so much more scope for fishing fun. I have friends who are dedicated sea fisherman, but who would scorn throwing lures for bass. T hier loss, cause when they are sulking because of a blowwout I am happily hooking bass. Other guys fish bass but belittle catfish, and then sit and complain about the muddy water which havs put the bass off the bite while I am happily hooking catfish. If I can give a fisherman one bit of advice it would be, Broaden Your Horizons. If nothing else, it means there is so much more tackle that you can buy, gfiddle with and read about. Tight Lines Rod Excuse me for butting in, but what has this got to do with UK. rec.fishing.sea ?????? — Davy Holt Surfing from Clydebank Scotland*"O Sir, doubht not that angling is                                * an art… The question is rather The Scottish Angling Homepage  * whether you are capable of learning http://www.dholt.demon.co.uk/  * it?"     Izaack Walton

How did u prep those bowfin to get them ready for the oven ???? I was in Northern Louisiana (Air Force assignment) a few years ago and caught these fish in the bayus of Barksdale AFB … They did wonders for a good frisky catch / better fight than any bass I’ve ever caught /  but they "melted" when I tried to fry them …. I used them in the tomatoe garden … planted along side the plants … What GREAT plant food !!!!!! BoneyFingers / in Georgia (now) ..

Response:

I live in South Florida and I want to know if there are more people out there who enjoy catching Bowfins? They are called Mudfish down here, and everyone seems to consider them a "trash" fish, except of course me. My first Mudfish was about 5 pounds, and fought like a cross between a catfish and a bass, diving, leaping, twisting, over and over. When I finally got it next to the boat, my fishing partner went, ugh! Mudfish…. I had caught a few bass earlier but none of them were as big or fought as hard as this gladiator from the stone age. I was hooked. I promptly changed my fishing tactics and targeted the Mudfish as my quarry for the rest of the day. Since them I have sponsored 5 Mudfish tournaments. All my friends are now hooked on the sport, and we even had a reporter come out to one of the tournaments and they printed a big article on us in the local newspaper. Once I found out that they were not only edible, but when baked they taste exactly like turkey breast, all white meat and juicy. Not one bit fishy. We now hold a big barbecue after the tournament, and enjoy Bowfin and beer till it gets dark. I have served baked fillet of Bowfin covered with Turkey gravy at Thanksgiving to my unsuspecting guests as an experiment to see if it was just me, or did this really taste like Turkey. Surprise. Everyone commented how tasty the White Turkey Meat was. I find it hard to believe that this fantastic fighting fish is shunned by bass fisherman everywhere I go as a no good trash fish. Does anyone know how this fish got such a bad reputation? Can anyone out there attest to the culinary delights of the Bowfin? What is the problem with catching a 5 to 10 pound fish that fights and jumps twice as hard as any bass I ever caught? Someone, Please, enlighten

Response:

I find it hard to believe that this fantastic fighting fish is shunned by bass fisherman everywhere I go as a no good trash fish. Does anyone know how this fish got such a bad reputation? Can anyone out there attest to the culinary delights of the Bowfin? What is the problem with catching a 5 to 10 pound fish that fights and jumps twice as hard as any bass I ever caught? Someone, Please, enlighten

I am continually amazed that people can be fanatical about one kind of fishing yet scorn others.This kind of thing is very widepsreadd, with people having bias against fish species or techniques (bait vs artificial vs fly). I believe that I am extremely fortunate in that I will fish for just about anything, and I will use just about any technique which will catch a fish. I believe that this opens up so much more scope for fishing fun.  I have friends who are dedicated sea fisherman, but who would scorn throwing lures for bass. T hier loss, cause when they are sulking because of a blowwout I am happily hooking bass. Other guys fish bass but belittle catfish, and then sit and complain about the muddy water which havs  put the bass off the bite while I am happily hooking catfish. If I can give a fisherman one bit of advice it would be, Broaden Your Horizons. If nothing else, it means there is so much more tackle that you can buy, gfiddle with and read about. Tight Lines Rod

Response:

: I never tried eating a bowfin, dogfish, mudfish, grinnell, or whatever : you want to call these voracious predators, but I will affirm their : fighting capabilities. : I find it hard to believe that this fantastic : fighting fish is shunned by bass fisherman everywhere I go as a no good : trash fish. Does anyone know how this fish got such a bad reputation? Can : anyone out there attest to the culinary delights of the Bowfin? What is : the problem with catching a 5 to 10 pound fish that fights and jumps : twice as hard as any bass I ever caught? Someone, Please, enlighten To me, catching the nasty bow-fin is like that awful story where a man’s wife gets raped; certainly she fights as hard as she can, and the attackers are later captured, but sex never is the same again. Well, perhaps not *that* extreme. The thing is, they’ll go after most anything, and it will always be an unpleasant surprise. Top-water plugs? Nasty, stink-bait? Soft-plastics? Whatever you’re fishing for, or with, sooner or later, you’re going to be convinced you’ve caught the biggest *ever* of that species, only to see the horrible grinnel surface. <sigh Yes, the fighting properties of the fish are all that, and then some. But if you think you’ve got a wall-hanger largemouth….<sigh And as for "tasting like turkey…."   The meat’s got a soft, gelatinous texture. It doesn’t smell good, and is yellowish, with holes like a sponge. Turkey breast, my foot. I thnk I’ll have a drum-stick.

Response:

I never tried eating a bowfin, dogfish, mudfish, grinnell, or whatever you want to call these voracious predators, but I will affirm their fighting capabilities.  Beaver Dam Lake was stocked with them in an effort to reduce the carp population.  It was assumed that they would eat the carp fry.  Ignorant fisherman killed them as fast as they caught them.  They assumed the bowfins were eating all the walleye!  Now, if I were a predatory fish, forced to live in a cesspool like Beaver Dam Lake, would I be eating a rare, spiny walleye, or leisurely gulping down soft rayed carp fry, which are present in vast shoals? — – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I find it hard to believe that this fantastic fighting fish is shunned by bass fisherman everywhere I go as a no good trash fish. Does anyone know how this fish got such a bad reputation? Can anyone out there attest to the culinary delights of the Bowfin? What is the problem with catching a 5 to 10 pound fish that fights and jumps twice as hard as any bass I ever caught? Someone, Please, enlighten I am continually amazed that people can be fanatical about one kind of fishing yet scorn others.This kind of thing is very widepsreadd, with people having bias against fish species or techniques (bait vs artificial vs fly). I believe that I am extremely fortunate in that I will fish for just about anything, and I will use just about any technique which will catch a fish. I believe that this opens up so much more scope for fishing fun. I have friends who are dedicated sea fisherman, but who would scorn throwing lures for bass. T hier loss, cause when they are sulking because of a blowwout I am happily hooking bass. Other guys fish bass but belittle catfish, and then sit and complain about the muddy water which havs put the bass off the bite while I am happily hooking catfish. If I can give a fisherman one bit of advice it would be, Broaden Your Horizons. If nothing else, it means there is so much more tackle that you can buy, gfiddle with and read about. Tight Lines Rod

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I find it hard to believe that this fantastic fighting fish is shunned by bass fisherman everywhere I go as a no good trash fish. Does anyone know how this fish got such a bad reputation? Can anyone out there attest to the culinary delights of the Bowfin? What is the problem with catching a 5 to 10 pound fish that fights and jumps twice as hard as any bass I ever caught? Someone, Please, enlighten I am continually amazed that people can be fanatical about one kind of fishing yet scorn others.This kind of thing is very widepsreadd, with people having bias against fish species or techniques (bait vs artificial vs fly). I believe that I am extremely fortunate in that I will fish for just about anything, and I will use just about any technique which will catch a fish. I believe that this opens up so much more scope for fishing fun. I have friends who are dedicated sea fisherman, but who would scorn throwing lures for bass. T hier loss, cause when they are sulking because of a blowwout I am happily hooking bass. Other guys fish bass but belittle catfish, and then sit and complain about the muddy water which havs put the bass off the bite while I am happily hooking catfish. If I can give a fisherman one bit of advice it would be, Broaden Your Horizons. If nothing else, it means there is so much more tackle that you can buy, gfiddle with and read about. Tight Lines Rod

Excuse me for butting in, but what has this got to do with UK. rec.fishing.sea ?????? — Davy Holt Surfing from Clydebank Scotland*"O Sir, doubht not that angling is                                * an art… The question is rather The Scottish Angling Homepage  * whether you are capable of learning http://www.dholt.demon.co.uk/  * it?"     Izaack Walton                                                

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Question:

Vinsel) writes: This brings up the question for the cane rod builders: what was the impregnating that was popular on many rods in the seventies – Orvis, Leonard, Powell…  Was that a pressurized epoxy system?  Why do so few makers do this today?  I would expect that it takes large and expensive equipment and would also stiffen the action of the rod. Anyone with more info?

The impregnation system that Orvis used and still uses is a phenolic resin.  Originally it was bakelite, in fact some of the rods from 1946 said "Bakelite Impregnated".  It’s changed a little since then, but not much.   Wes Jordan was the first rod maker to successfully apply impregnation to bamboo rods in 1946.  It drove him nuts during World War II that Orvis could make impregnated bamboo ski poles for the ski troops for the war effort that were impervious to heat and moisture and yet could not produce a bamboo rod with predictable action with the same process.  He finally figured out that by flaming the rod to remove most of the moisture content, building the rod completely and by cooking it at precisely controlled temperatures in the phenolic resin for a couple of days he could impregnate the rod with the resin and achieve predictable results. Then, to demonstrate that the impregnated rod was impervious to weather and for advertisement purposes, he would freeze a rod in a 50 lb. block of ice and then pour boiling water over the ice until the it melted away from the rod.  In 1946 there were no varnishes that could withstand this treatment. If the impregnation process was improperly done it could make the rod heavy and "loggy".  Properly done, the impregnation goes into the cane a few thousandths of an inch and replaces the residual moisuture usually found in the power fibers.The heat curing process (originally flamed, now done with a heat box) makes the rod stiffer and allows it to be impregnated with the resin.  Without the heat curing process, there is too much moisture in the bamboo to impregnate the rod successfully. Impregnating the rod is an extra step and although it eliminates the varnishing process, it is more time consuming than varnishing and  If you don’t control the heat of the phenolic resin precisely, you ruin the rod. Action of the rod is more dependant on the design of the rod not the impregnation of it.  If you pick up an Orvis "Wes Jordan era" rod it will be almost mahogany in color from the flaming and faster in action than the rods currently produced.  This is due in large part to the preference of the rod designer Wes Jordan.  Howard Steare, who worked with Wes and took over rod production after Wes Jordan retired, preferred a higher moisture content in the bamboo which resulted in a slower action.  Howard retired a couple of years ago and for the first time in many years Orvis is producing 3 new bamboo rods for 1997 with reportedly crisper and quicker actions.  I’ll be curious to get them in my hands. You can find some more info on this at the Orvis web site (www.orvis.com) under the "timeline" part of the Orvis story section.  You can jump right to it at the following url "http://www.alloutdoors.com/orvis/Story/Impregbamb.html"  There is also a book out about Wes Jordan from Centennial Press that has a lot more info.                                         Hope this helps,                                                Dan Dan Gracia                                                               Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

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[stuff deleted] This brings up the question for the cane rod builders: what was the impregnating that was popular on many rods in the seventies – Orvis, Leonard, Powell…  Was that a pressurized epoxy system?  Why do so few makers do this today? Impregnating the rod is a way a few manufacturers finish their rods, but in general, impregnation slows down the action of a rod. The air spaces get filled with epoxy, adding to the weight, thus slowing down the action. There is a saying that Orvis makes their rods to last, not to cast.

Well, almost.  I worked for Leonard in the late 70s.  The Duracane impregnated rod blanks were made for Leonard to their specs in England. The stuff used was bakelite, if I remember correctly.  I’m pretty sure it wasn’t epoxy.  As for weight, the impregnated rods were pretty close to the weight of the varnished rods, they just didn’t have as complex tapers, as thin tips, or as fancy reelseats, although they did have silk wraps, very nice wood reelseats, and the same nickel- silver ferrules.  I always sort of wished I had bought a Duracane 7′ 4 wt. since they cast beautifully.  In fact, the entire Duracane line was very, very nice. As for impregnation, it only soaks in a few thousands of an inch, hardly enough to affect the action in any really meaningful way. As for Orvis, if you don’t like the way their rods cast, it’s because of the design, not because of the impregnating.  Orvis rods have very slow tapers.  This is because that’s how they want them.  It would take a little more work to make a rod with a very thin tip, but in general, Orvis cane rods have slow actions because that’s how they were designed. Barry Smith

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I don’t think epoxy varnish is correct. I am not familiar with epoxy varnish but in general epoxies are two-part systems that you mix, and when they solidify they are very difficult to remove. Most epoxies are clouded and weakened by UV light so I don’t think this is right for an overall coating, unless you were going to varnish over the epoxy (getting pretty thick by now…)

You are right, most epoxies are unsuitable for coating, although as coating for guide wraps they work fine. I think you want a marine-grade spar varnish, which would be phenolic or polyurethane based, with a UV inhibitor.  That way you can remove it with alcohol and steel wool to restore every twenty years or so.

There are several ways to finish a cane rod. Tung oil, spar varnish, or polyurethane varnish can be used. Polyurethane is probably the most resistant to water, solvents, weather, etc., but the hardest to refinish if it ever becomes neccesary to do so. About the only way to remove polyurethane is to sand it off. This brings up the question for the cane rod builders: what was the impregnating that was popular on many rods in the seventies – Orvis, Leonard, Powell…  Was that a pressurized epoxy system?  Why do so few makers do this today?  I would expect that it takes large and expensive equipment and would also stiffen the action of the rod. Anyone with more info?

Impregnating the rod is a way a few manufacturers finish their rods, but in general, impregnation slows down the action of a rod. The air spaces get filled with epoxy, adding to the weight, thus slowing down the action. There is a saying that Orvis makes their rods to last, not to cast. Darryl Hayashida

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… you can improve the stick’s water resistance by a couple of thin coats of epoxy varnish…

I don’t think epoxy varnish is correct. I am not familiar with epoxy varnish but in general epoxies are two-part systems that you mix, and when they solidify they are very difficult to remove. Most epoxies are clouded and weakened by UV light so I don’t think this is right for an overall coating, unless you were going to varnish over the epoxy (getting pretty thick by now…) I think you want a marine-grade spar varnish, which would be phenolic or polyurethane based, with a UV inhibitor.  That way you can remove it with alcohol and steel wool to restore every twenty years or so. This brings up the question for the cane rod builders: what was the impregnating that was popular on many rods in the seventies – Orvis, Leonard, Powell…  Was that a pressurized epoxy system?  Why do so few makers do this today?  I would expect that it takes large and expensive equipment and would also stiffen the action of the rod. Anyone with more info? Mark Vinsel http://www.lanminds.com/local/vinnie/gallery.html

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I found an old cane rod that hasn’t much care recently.  One wrap is starting to loosen.  What solution does one use on the wraps to hold them and what does one put on the cane to waterproof it? Thanks

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I found an old cane rod that hasn’t much care recently.  One wrap is starting to loosen.  What solution does one use on the wraps to hold them and what does one put on the cane to waterproof it?

Don’t put adhesives on loose wrap.  Carefully cut the old whipping off and redo it afresh.  (If one has already loosened, another is going to soon, and every handy angler needs to know how to make a neat whipping.  It’s not difficult.) If you know this is a good stick, you might as well refinish it throughout, whipping on new (rustproof) guides correctly spaced and sized.  If you remove everything except ferrules and handle, you can improve the stick’s water resistance by a couple of thin coats of epoxy varnish, before you reattach guides (at least 2 weeks later, to be sure the varnish is totally dry.) — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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Does any one have any info on landlock flies?techniques they would like to share It would be greatly apreciated.                                         Adam Ford

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 (Adam Ford) writes: Does any one have any info on landlock flies?techniques they would like to share It would be greatly apreciated.

Standards: 1–streamers that imitate smelt, in rivers in spring (when smelt spawn) and trolling in lakes all year, 2–small Muddlers in white water, 3–matching the hatch of dries or nymphs, when trout-like feeding can be observed, 4–big nymphs in deep pockets (Charles Brooks style). —  |          Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Rd., Carlsbad         |  |        Springs, Ont., Canada K0A 1K0; tel: (613) 822-0734       |  |  "What I’ve always liked about science is its independence from |  |  authority"–Ontario Science Centre (name on file) 10 July 1981 |

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Adam, Joe Jack who lives here in Burke VA introduced to me to spring fishing for Landlocks in Maine at Wheaton’s Lodge on East Grand Lake (Canadian Border).  We fished with "tandem" streamer flies.  These are large streamers with a second trailing hook to get the ones who "short strike" the fly.  He also ties single hook versions for the rivers.  The tandem flies are "trolled" from a canoe with your fly rod and about half of your fly line out the back of the canoe.  He sells flies whoesale and retail.  Contact me separately for his phone number.  Wheaton’s Lodge was great.  I had my own cabin with 3/4 bath, wood stove and 3 home cooked meals a day for $75/day.  Guides are $115/day for 2 fisherman.   Boat and motor can be rented for $35/day.  I can’t wait to go back. Bill A.

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This past summer I did some trolling with flies for landlocked salmon in Maine in July.  We trolled with lead core lines to get down 20+ feet.  I used and old bamboo bait rod and antique pflueger summit bait reel.  You don’t get as good a fight with the lead core but you can still get down to the big ones in the lakes with flies.  We used tube flies tied on copper tubes.  These were new to me but I think they’re really cool.  We tied standard traditional streamer patterns on them and strung them on a short shock tippet attached to a small treble hook.  Use a plastic tube (aquarium tubing) to make a releasable connector at rear of fly tube.  I tied a few strands of silver flashabou and some white marabou on the treble hooks.  Deadly!  My buddy makes his tube flies on heavier copper conduit tube, about 3/8" diameter and permanently attaches the treble with spring steel wire running through the tube,  truly lures, definitely not fly fishing be careful in special regulation areas.   Normally I stick with the real traditional patterns.  A great reference book is Trolling Flies for Trout and Salmon by Dick Stewart and Bob Leeman distributed by the Stephen Green Press Fessenden Rd. Brattleboro VT 05301 and Universal Vise Corp16 Union Ave, Westfield MA. 01085. E-Mail me if I can tie some flies for you or if you have any questions. Landlocks are the best!  Catch and release Dave Wood

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   January 10 I will be taking a trip to Western Georgia, Raven Gap to be precise.  I have never fished this area and was wondering if anyone could supply me with information regarding waters in this region.  I could use any help you can offer: names and locations of streams and rivers, possible patterns, weather conditions, or perhaps the name and/or number of tackle shops in the area. Thanks in advance, Peter Johnson

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(Matthew H. Hsu) writes:

<<January 10 I will be taking a trip to Western Georgia, Raven Gap to be precise. <<…. Could use any help you can offer, …. Unfortunately, most of Georgia’s trout water will be unavailable to you due to season being closed. Also the western part of the state is not "known" for its trout waters. The Toccoa Rivers & Chattooga Rivers are open year round. as well as a few other smaller streams in the area. Anyway, I use general attracter patterns such as Royal Wulffs for dries and usually have success with small BWO’s. Streamers (buggers & muddler minnows, as well as terrestial imitations are usually good). I don’t do nymphs so can’t help there. Fly shops, the only thing close to a fly shop I know of in north western GA is the Bargain Barn in Jasper GA. There are three shops in Atlanta (Atlanta Fly Fishing Outfitters, The Classic Angler, and The Fish Hawk). The Bargain Barn will probably do a better job of directing you to the year-round water. Anyway, if you are close enough to TN or NC, suggest try and fish there since those state’s essentially have a year round season (some exceptions in NC). Check with the Choo-Choo fly shop in Chattanooga TN for more current info. E-mail me if you need more specific information. Wayne Knight Atlanta, GA

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: Anyway, I use general attracter patterns such as Royal Wulffs for dries : and usually have success with small BWO’s. Streamers (buggers & muddler : minnows, as well as terrestial imitations are usually good). I don’t do : nymphs so can’t help there. I’d suggest a hare’s ear.  my favorite for northern GA.   Steve

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