Question:

 The Prestige. But its only a good deal with the 3 Forks package. You  can find cheaper Okumas elsewhere.   And, it’s a good "bang for the buck" reel.  But, the Prestige   included with the 3 wt. Three Forks is a bit large for this rod, IMO.  I think it’s for 5/6 wt. line.  One of the smaller Okuma’s would be a better fit on the 3 wt. Snoop

True enough Snoop…both my 3 and 5 wt Three Forks sport an Okuma Sierra 3/4 and a nice rig it is. Frank(a very tired road hog) Church …..who just completed a 3300 mile trip to El Paso, Tx. and only had 300 miles of sunshine. The rest rain/drizzle/fog/snow/hail and who watched a tornado funnel form and disappear 3 times right before my very eyes. (wait a minute, was this a TR?)

Response:

 The Prestige. But its only a good deal with the 3 Forks package. You can find cheaper Okumas elsewhere.   And, it’s a good "bang for the buck" reel.  But, the Prestige included with the 3 wt. Three Forks is a bit large for this rod, IMO.  I think it’s for 5/6 wt. line.  One of the smaller Okuma’s would be a better fit on the 3 wt.

The one I bought for my St. Croix three weight is labeled "4/5", but it’s the smallest reel I own by far.  Pretty ideal for the three weight in my estimation.  As a matter of fact, even with a 3 WF there is little room for backing.  I’m not sure I could get a double tapered line on it even without any backing. Wolfgang

Response:

I use a Galvan 3wt reel on my P.O.S. Three Forks. It’s a lovely reel — a light anodized metallic color, just the right size, with a sensitive drag and a decent amount of backing — as though I’ll ever need it. At first I felt like an idiot because the reel (an impulse purchase) costs maybe four or five times what rod costs, even when the rod was bought as a "combo." I use a 3 wt WF Sage Performance line with that rod. The LINE costs more than the rod, even when bought as a "combo." It matches the rod "perfectly" to my satisfaction. BTW, I recently got my repaired workhorse 5wt Sage SP back from the factory, after breaking it horribly and sickeningly at the HF Clave. I took it out to the Big Wood River a few days ago, getting about two hours of fishing in during a day of frantic errand running in Ketchum and Hailey. It was a good outing, catching a few nice rainbows on dries during the tail end of a baetis hatch. The rod, however, felt like a surf rod compared to the Three Forks I’ve been using in its absence.

Response:

Proceed with caution.  Your four weight and 3 weight might breed, producing a 3.5 weight.  If this happens, there would be no hope of ever avoiding a gear-whore label.

It’s not so much the lable itself that I mind, but at these prices I find (at this late and rather sensitive stage of life) that I am a CHEAP whore. Scott (recovering this morning from a second lab flood  )

Core coolant leaking again? Wolfgang ever grateful for predominant westerly winds.

Response:

@wiscnews.wiscnet.net: Scott (recovering this morning from a second lab flood  ) Core coolant leaking again?

No, just an idiot one floor up who should need a license to operate a sink Did you know that Universities have employees that do nothing but serve as liasions to their own insurance companies? — Scott Reverse first field of address to reply

Response:

Thanks for the report, Bill.  I really had intended to fish with my Three Forks combo in NC last week but found it impossible to tear myself away from the rod Joel built for me on a St. Croix Legend Ultra blank back in the spring.

I can fully understand that! Since I bought the Three Forks back in July (for my daughter, I swear!), I haven’t used my 5 weight rig much.  Opportunities will be limited for me for the next few months, but maybe I’ll get lucky and manage at least a bluegilling trip before the ice sets in.

And here I was hoping for Thanksgiving at the cabin up on the Ontonogan! Shall I pack my skis? Bill

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wolfgang, you missed one fine $10 reel.  I looked at the Okuma version at a fly shop today, and it’s the exact same reel.  The salesman was trying to convince me that 30% off a $435 Ross reel was a bargain, but being the bottom feeder that I am… Which of Cabelas reels is the Okuma? I just looked at their site again……thinking of getting a four weight to keep the three company.    :) I believe the reel in question is the "Prestige". http://shorterlink.com/?VW9JA3 Wolfgang

Proceed with caution.  Your four weight and 3 weight might breed, producing a 3.5 weight.  If this happens, there would be no hope of ever avoiding a gear-whore label. — Scott (recovering this morning from a second lab flood  ) Reverse first field of address to reply

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks for the report, Bill.  I really had intended to fish with my Three Forks combo in NC last week but found it impossible to tear myself away from the rod Joel built for me on a St. Croix Legend Ultra blank back in the spring. I can fully understand that! Since I bought the Three Forks back in July (for my daughter, I swear!), I haven’t used my 5 weight rig much.  Opportunities will be limited for me for the next few months, but maybe I’ll get lucky and manage at least a bluegilling trip before the ice sets in. And here I was hoping for Thanksgiving at the cabin up on the Ontonogan! Shall I pack my skis?

The place is full of deer hunters then…..nasty, smelly bunch, decidedly short on refinement…….hm……now I think about it, sounds a lot like a clave.  What time can you be there? Wolfgang if you bring liquid refreshments, stay close…..and stay awake!

Response:

 The Prestige. But its only a good deal with the 3 Forks package. You can find cheaper Okumas elsewhere.

  And, it’s a good "bang for the buck" reel.  But, the Prestige included with the 3 wt. Three Forks is a bit large for this rod, IMO.  I think it’s for 5/6 wt. line.  One of the smaller Okuma’s would be a better fit on the 3 wt. Snoop — —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

Wolfgang, you missed one fine $10 reel.  I looked at the Okuma version at a fly shop today, and it’s the exact same reel.  The salesman was trying to convince me that 30% off a $435 Ross reel was a bargain, but being the bottom feeder that I am… Which of Cabelas reels is the Okuma?

 The Prestige. But its only a good deal with the 3 Forks package. You can find cheaper Okumas elsewhere. G.C.

Response:

Wolfgang, you missed one fine $10 reel.  I looked at the Okuma version at a fly shop today, and it’s the exact same reel.  The salesman was trying to convince me that 30% off a $435 Ross reel was a bargain, but being the bottom feeder that I am… Which of Cabelas reels is the Okuma?

I just looked at their site again……thinking of getting a four weight to keep the three company.    :) I believe the reel in question is the "Prestige". http://shorterlink.com/?VW9JA3 Wolfgang

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I had the 3-3-3 (Three Forks, three piece, three weight) with me in Colorado this past weekend, and really enjoyed fishing with it.  I’ll try to stave off hyperbole this time, though. Wolfgang, you missed one fine $10 reel.  I looked at the Okuma version at a fly shop today, and it’s the exact same reel.  The salesman was trying to convince me that 30% off a $435 Ross reel was a bargain, but being the bottom feeder that I am… One interesting data point: I fished with my friend Dennis on Monday.  He had a Cortland package set up and was doing miserably with it.  He just couldn’t seem to get a cast out right.  Handed him the 3-3-3 and he did much better.  Of course, Willi’d given him some pointers in the meantime, so maybe my data is skewed.  Just seems like a nice rod to cast, beginner or otherwise.

Thanks for the report, Bill.  I really had intended to fish with my Three Forks combo in NC last week but found it impossible to tear myself away from the rod Joel built for me on a St. Croix Legend Ultra blank back in the spring.  Opportunities will be limited for me for the next few months, but maybe I’ll get lucky and manage at least a bluegilling trip before the ice sets in. Wolfgang

Response:

Wolfgang, you missed one fine $10 reel.  I looked at the Okuma version at a fly shop today, and it’s the exact same reel.  The salesman was trying to convince me that 30% off a $435 Ross reel was a bargain, but being the bottom feeder that I am…

Which of Cabelas reels is the Okuma?

Response:

So, did you have fun?

Yes. Was it purty?

Yes. Did they make you eat "grits"?

Weren’t enough of ‘em.  I made ‘em eat olives! Geo.C. Who got skunked on the Brule Friday, but who was more in need of the water, trees and silence than fish anyway.

And you could have picked a worse spot.  On the other hand, there’s some mighty nice spots in NC too!      :) Wolfgang meantime, don’t believe the lyin’ bastids!    

Response:

So Wolfie did ya like the rod ??? Nice gear whore report makes me wanta send for one right now.                    Handyman Mike           Standing in a river waving a stick

Response:

So Wolfie did ya like the rod ??? Nice gear whore report makes me wanta send for one right now.

fished with it yet, did I?      :) Wolfgang and thus, the perfect rod!

Response:

So Wolfie did ya like the rod ??? Nice gear whore report makes me wanta send for one right now. fished with it yet, did I?      :)

For what it’s worth, Mike, I did actually test cast the rod on my lawn and found that it works as well as any other.  Bearing in mind that the reel seat will probably have to be replaced, as has so often been noted, I still think that the package is a steal for 60 bucks.  I only wish that I had investigated Cabelas site a little more carefully and gotten the Okuma reel for an additional ten dollars rather than the cheap graphite one. Wolfgang

Response:

Wolfie, Bass Pro Shops Have some nice little reels real cheap that look really good on the 3, they balance the rod well and are disk drag. I use the graphite reel to run the line off the other reel (4 hose clamps on a piece of broom stick.) — John Popp in Sanford Fl.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So Wolfie did ya like the rod ??? Nice gear whore report makes me wanta send for one right now. fished with it yet, did I?      :) For what it’s worth, Mike, I did actually test cast the rod on my lawn and found that it works as well as any other.  Bearing in mind that the reel seat will probably have to be replaced, as has so often been noted, I still think that the package is a steal for 60 bucks.  I only wish that I had investigated Cabelas site a little more carefully and gotten the Okuma reel for an additional ten dollars rather than the cheap graphite one. Wolfgang

Response:

I use the graphite reel to run the line off the other reel (4 hose clamps on a piece of broom stick.)

I gave mine to a local boy who loves to flyfish but doesn’t have much tackle — not even something as cheesy as the Cabela’s graphite reel.

Response:

Wolfie, Bass Pro Shops Have some nice little reels real cheap that look really good on the 3, they balance the rod well and are disk drag. I use the graphite reel to run the line off the other reel (4 hose clamps on a piece of broom stick.) — John Popp in Sanford Fl.

Thanks, John. Wolfgang

Response:

I had the 3-3-3 (Three Forks, three piece, three weight) with me in Colorado this past weekend, and really enjoyed fishing with it.  I’ll try to stave off hyperbole this time, though. Wolfgang, you missed one fine $10 reel.  I looked at the Okuma version at a fly shop today, and it’s the exact same reel.  The salesman was trying to convince me that 30% off a $435 Ross reel was a bargain, but being the bottom feeder that I am… One interesting data point: I fished with my friend Dennis on Monday.  He had a Cortland package set up and was doing miserably with it.  He just couldn’t seem to get a cast out right.  Handed him the 3-3-3 and he did much better.  Of course, Willi’d given him some pointers in the meantime, so maybe my data is skewed.  Just seems like a nice rod to cast, beginner or otherwise. Bill – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So Wolfie did ya like the rod ??? Nice gear whore report makes me wanta send for one right now. fished with it yet, did I?      :) For what it’s worth, Mike, I did actually test cast the rod on my lawn and found that it works as well as any other.  Bearing in mind that the reel seat will probably have to be replaced, as has so often been noted, I still think that the package is a steal for 60 bucks.  I only wish that I had investigated Cabelas site a little more carefully and gotten the Okuma reel for an additional ten dollars rather than the cheap graphite one. Wolfgang

Response:

God bless Cabela’s for the less afluent among us. Joel Axelrad **DFD**

Response:

* combo TR and Gear Review snipped* Wolfgang

So, did you have fun? Was it purty? Did they make you eat "grits"? Geo.C. Who got skunked on the Brule Friday, but who was more in need of the water, trees and silence than fish anyway.

Response:

God bless Cabela’s for the less afluent among us. Joel Axelrad **DFD**

And God bless the builders of superior rods who make a backup something of a cheap luxury rather than an absolute necessity!       Wolfgang ya should’a been there!

Response:

As some of you will recall, I recently purchased a Cabelas Three Forks Combo which included a seven and a half foot 3 piece 3 weight rod, a cheap graphite click drag reel, a weight forward 3 wt. floating line of unknown manufacture, backing of unknown manufacture, material, and weight (it’s white), rod sock, a knotless tapered leader, and a getting started in fly fishing video, for the price of about 60 bucks (US) including shipping. The purchase was prompted by a perceived need to have a backup in the event of a catastrophic failure of my primary three weight rig during the recently concluded first ever ROFFian Appalachian backpacking anti-subclave, and the selection was based on several years worth of recommendations from a wide range of ROFFians (most of whom I have never met but have nevertheless inexplicably learned to trust……don’t ask me, maybe it’s the aneurysm) who have, for the most part, spoken glowingly of it.  I have not yet viewed the video and will thus refrain from further comment on it. After a week in the Smoky Mountains of extreme western North Carolina, fishing in very demanding circumstances (those familiar with the region are all too well aware of the rigorous demands made on both fly fisher and gear) I am prepared to say that despite some initial misgivings engendered by the rather shoddy appearance of the rod’s components (the entire reel seat assembly fails to inspire confidence), I am pleased to say without qualification that the entire outfit performed every task I demanded of it flawlessly. ….even perfectly.  True, I did not catch a single fish with it, but anyone who has been about this sort of thing for very long can attest that such failure can hardly be laid at the feet of the equipment……I can honestly say that coming home empty handed, as it were, had absolutely nothing to do with any deficiency in the design, components, or manufacture of the this rod, reel, or any other of the components of the system.  But then, having done some test casting on the lawn prior to packing for the trip, I already knew that this would be the case.  As is almost always the case, barring a mechanical failure (which, in this case at least, did not occur), the responsibility for the success (or lack of thereof) of the endeavor must rest squarely in the hands of the user. Fortunately, the perceived potential disaster which demanded the purchase of this system never happened, but as such an occurrence remains an all too real possibility I remain convinced of the wisdom of foresight and preparation for the worst eventuality and I will continue to carry this particular backup system secure in the expectation that it will continue to perform exactly as it did on this occasion. Wolfgang

Response:

Question:

Hi Mike, I would take a larger #7, 8 or 9 weight outfit with a floating line. It is better during the summer and particularly in the Fall (Oct) when the wind lays down, but if it is warm, who knows, it could be great?. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop http://www.kiene.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m going to be in the Brownsville, TX area next month and would like to take an extra day while I’m there for a little fishing. Is it worth it at this time of the year? Can anyone recommend a guide? I’m thinking along the lines of redfish, or whatever in the nearby bays. Thanks. — Mike Terrian terrian at ibm dot net

Response:

I’m going to be in the Brownsville, TX area next month and would like to take an extra day while I’m there for a little fishing. Is it worth it at this time of the year? Can anyone recommend a guide? I’m thinking along the lines of redfish, or whatever in the nearby bays. Thanks. — Mike Terrian terrian at ibm dot net

Response:

Mike, Don’t go! If you do go, leave the area immediately!  You might see the flag of a once independent Texas which would be offensive to all with eyesight and will create an off-topic thread from which we will never recover .

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m going to be in the Brownsville, TX area next month and would like to take an extra day while I’m there for a little fishing. Is it worth it at this time of the year? Can anyone recommend a guide? I’m thinking along the lines of redfish, or whatever in the nearby bays. Thanks. — Mike Terrian terrian at ibm dot net

Response:

Mike, I recommend Eric Glass, Gib Little or any one that Larry Haines at The Shop in Port Isabel recommends.  This time of year can be hot for Reds and Specs.  I friend of mine has been taking Snook in the Arroyo.  Unfortunately we just had a chemical spill in the Port of Brownsville and that may damage or disrupt some of our snook fishery.  Eric # is 956.761.2878.  Gib’s 761.7682.  Larry is at 943.1785.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m going to be in the Brownsville, TX area next month and would like to take an extra day while I’m there for a little fishing. Is it worth it at this time of the year? Can anyone recommend a guide? I’m thinking along the lines of redfish, or whatever in the nearby bays. Thanks. — Mike Terrian terrian at ibm dot net

Response:

Unfortunately we just had a chemical spill in the Port of Brownsville and that may damage or disrupt some of our snook fishery.

It’s so comforting to know that due to Gov. George Bush the oil and gas industry in Texas is permitted to comply with environmental regulations in a purely "voluntary" manner. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Yeah, well it wasn’t oil nor gas. The truck driver broke the law and was hauled of by the Texas Department of Public Safety.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Unfortunately we just had a chemical spill in the Port of Brownsville and that may damage or disrupt some of our snook fishery. It’s so comforting to know that due to Gov. George Bush the oil and gas industry in Texas is permitted to comply with environmental regulations in a purely "voluntary" manner. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Question:

It looks like I’ll be in Switzerland next August. I was thinking that this might be a chance to try some European flyfishing. Anyone have suggestions about what would be good that time of year? It doesn’t have to be near Switzerland. This is a free trip, so I can afford to splurge on extra travel.

August is not exactly the best time for fishing here, but whatever, drop me a mail a little before the time and I will arrange something. Do it at least a month or so beforehand, and I will try and organise a license and everything for you if you would like to have a go here in Germany. I will try and send you some info on Switzerland as well. Your best bet for reasonable fishing is probably Austria. Tight lines ! MC

Response:

It looks like I’ll be in Switzerland next August. I was thinking that this might be a chance to try some European flyfishing. Anyone have suggestions about what would be good that time of year? It doesn’t have to be near Switzerland. This is a free trip, so I can afford to splurge on extra travel. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Question:

I got hooked on it this summer and I recommend that you check out www.kayakfishing.com  Spike is really knowledgeable and I know that you will find what advice you need there.  I got a Malibu 2 (Ocean Kayak) and love it all the way.  i have boated some very large fish from this thing and am now really confident that the sit-on-tops are the way to go. Fish-on I spent quite a bit of time fishing from a canoe, but think I’d like to try a kayak, particularly for carrying in relatively short distances to lakes without boat ramps.  I think I’d prefer an open cockpit, or sit-on type.  Someone suggested I look into the "Pungo".  Does anyone have any experience with the Pungo, or ideas about other types I should be considering?  Thanks much. chuck

– MZ

Response:

I saw someone fly fishing from a kayak this past weekend.  It was quite the site!  I think they were in a Perception Carolina? My Old Town Heron has a large cockpit area but its heavy (50lbs or so) so its not easy to carry long distances.  You ought to look at Dagger’s Atlantis, its a large cockpit and its a pretty light boat. — http://www.ncseakayak.com North Carolina’s Headquarters for Sea Kayakers! Before you buy.

Response:

Ifly fish about 4 days a week, from my kayak’s mostly. I’ve migrated to dagger’s delta & bayou models. Their stable & stealth I can park them anywhere with low profile they get little wind drift. I use a 2 ft. hand paddle to position boat  from place to place as i fish. my wife claims I’ve become obsesed,I think i’ve finialy discovered the ultimate fly fishing vehicle.  good luck& enjoy

Response:

I spent quite a bit of time fishing from a canoe, but think I’d like to try a kayak, particularly for carrying in relatively short distances to lakes without boat ramps.  I think I’d prefer an open cockpit, or sit-on type.  Someone suggested I look into the "Pungo".  Does anyone have any experience with the Pungo, or ideas about other types I should be considering?  Thanks much. chuck

Response:

I spent quite a bit of time fishing from a canoe, but think I’d like to try a kayak, particularly for carrying in relatively short distances to lakes without boat ramps.  I think I’d prefer an open cockpit, or sit-on type.  Someone suggested I look into the "Pungo".  Does anyone have any experience with the Pungo, or ideas about other types I should be considering?  Thanks much.

The Pungo seems to be a big seller in the Atlanta area, but I like my Ride (also by Wilderness Systems). The Ride is a sit-on-top as opposed to an open cockpit, and if keeping your butt dry is important it’s probably not for you<g. The Ride is also probably more awkward to carry than the Pungo, I got a set of wheels that slip on the back of a kayak or canoe to use on mine. — Charlie…

Response:

Chuck, I use to fish from a small boat I owned and sometimes from canoes I rented. I sold the boat and didn’t fish for many years. This past summer I decided to fish again and thought to buy a canoe but ended up buying a kayak. I’ll share the details – maybe it will be of help in some way. – canoes were more expensive than I thought and the   idea of using a kayak came to mind. I had no idea what kayaks cost – thought they might be cheaper. I had never heard of anyone fishing from a kayak but thought maybe it would work. – I wanted something small enough to store in my garage.  I did some research online. I was surprised at how long and how expensive some kayaks are. I identified the major companies and the smaller, less expensive models. I narrowed my search to about 3 kayaks. Only one of them had a distributer close by (20 miles away). They had a website and I got the basic info from that. I called and made arrangements to come look at the model of interest – an Old Town – Otter – they had to bring it in from their warehouse several miles away. They had a ‘Loon’ – a more expensive and longer model in stock that was nice but I bought the Otter for just over $300. – the otter is 9′ 6" long and fits just perfect on top of my car, it has a large open cockpit easy to enter/exit, it is not built to ‘roll’ – which having never ridden in a kayak I didn’t know how to do, and I’m not sure ‘rolling’ and fishing go together anyway! It fits nicely in my garage. It weighs 39 pounds – about as light as I could find- and is easy to carry. – I knew nothing about tracking, speed, compounds etc when I bought it but I think all that turned out ok with what I got and the casual fishing I’m doing. – I didn’t know if there would be enough room to fish comfortably from a kayak but it turned out there is – for me. All my ‘gear’ goes in my small backpack – the other items are a paddle and a ‘life jacket’ and one fishing rod. I have a bow line and a stern line tied to the kayak – they are used to tie the kayak to the car. When I launch – I tie the bow line to my paddle and the stern line to my pack – in case I ever flip. I rest my legs on the pack – it’s right in front of me with easy access to my lures etc. I’ve learned to rest the paddle across the kayak when not in use and to ‘fish around it’. I’ve never had a problem  landing a fish because the paddle got in the way. – I don’t know if other styles of kayaks such as those you ’sit on top’ would work better or not – I’ve never tried one. I have made trips of up to 3-4 hrs without getting out of the kayak – I can shift my seating position a little and that helps- but you can’t move around much. -kayak fishing isn’t for everyone, but I like it. I’m small (5′ 8"), a good swimmer (also scuba certified), very comfortable in and around the water, comfortable in confined spaces (use to do some cave exploring). I like being low on the water while I fish – and the way I’m able to move the kayak into places larger craft don’t go – in and around the bank / stumps etc – and it’s so peaceful and quiet – I can come up on fish very quietly – some even swim over to check me out. I think I enjoyed my past canoe trips because it ‘put me close to nature’ – and with the kayak I feel even closer. – the places I fish have boat ramps, but once I went where there was no ramp. I had to carry the kayak down a hill about 50 feet. It was not a problem – but it did take more effort than I thought it would. I wouldn’t want to carry it a hundred yards! – as for negatives, the kayak tips over relatively easy – (that hasn’t been a problem for me), it’s sensitive to the wind – this can be a challenge while trying to fish – sometimes I can take advantage by drifting, depending on shoreline location or even doing some trolling. – I’ll be happy to share other info or answer questions. -larry

Response:

You should look into the Old Towne Loon series.  They have a large open cockpit and are very stable. Bill Bernhardt

Response:

Does anyone have any experience with the Pungo, or ideas about other types I should be considering?

The Pungo would be a great choice – stable, roomy, relatively fast for its size, not too heavy to cart around.

Response:

Here are two sites to try: http://www.waldenkayak.com/models.html ( scroll down to the Walden Scout ) and http://www.otccanoe.com/loon138.html check out the Old Town Loon 138

Response:

Hey Chuck, I do alot of fishing from a sit on top out here in the Pacific ocean. I have an ocean kayak scupper classic. This is a popular boat out here for fishing from. It is about 14 feet long, fairly stable, and has two big hatches so you can store gear inside the kayak. It doesn’t roll, you will fall off before you roll it…but the best thing that I have found is to sit sideways, with your feet in the water when fishing. This makes the boat very stable, I have never even come close to feeling like I was going to tip, when sitting sideways. Its also really comfortable that way. Necky also makes some nice models for fishing and so does Perception. Our company makes some wheels which use the drain holes on many sit on tops as mounting points,(that way the cart can’t slip off the back of the kayak when going over curbs, rocks, roots, etc.) they collapse so you can fit them inside the hatches on the kayak. This is really handy, because once you get to the water, you just disassemble the wheels and take them with you instead of having to take them back to the car. You can make some pole holders out of pvc pipe, or mount some of the holders available at tackle stores to the deck of the kayak, which is really handy. We put sonar on our kayaks too, once you outfit the kayak you have a great fishing machine…This might be more info than you asked for, but what can I say, Im enthusiastic about the sport. Good luck E Scary Sports http://www.scarysports.com

Response:

I spent quite a bit of time fishing from a canoe, but think I’d like to try a kayak, particularly for carrying in relatively short distances to lakes without boat ramps.  I think I’d prefer an open cockpit, or sit-on type. Someone suggested I look into the "Pungo".  Does anyone have any experience with the Pungo, or ideas about other types I should be considering?  Thanks much. chuck

Chuck, look at this site before you do anything: http://www.kayakfishing.com/ Also, make sure you look at all the different boats that might suit your purpose (lake, river, or ocean fishing). In recent years, there have been many innovations, especially in plastic sitontop boats, so give them a try before settling for a more "traditional" solution. For example, Ocean Kayaks, Perception, and Cobra all have models that come with decks molded to accept small coolers, SCUBA tanks, dry bags, caught fish, etc., that are instantly accessible from the seat. Some have hatches that open into compartments that can be used as live bait or fish wells, and can even be equipped with areators. These kayaks can also be outfitted with small anchors or sea drogues to help with drifting, clips to hold spare paddles and rods, rod holders, etc. Perception sells "outback" models of a couple of its boats that are fully geared up for the "outdoorsman," with many of the options I mentioned above. Have fun! Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

Get the Pungo.  It’s a GREAT fishing kayak!! Courtney Rapid Adventures

Response:

I spent quite a bit of time fishing from a canoe, but think I’d like to try a kayak,

The Perception Axess comes in two styles, one style is specificly designed and outfitted for fishing. The boat is a "closed" cockpit type but can easily be paddled without a skirt on flat water and the front of the cockpit area is equipped with little tackle trays and such goodies. It is a very stable boat and a lot of thought went into the bow hull design to reduce the "slapping" of the water that spooks fish. The fishing version of this boat comes in subdued colors, and as far as I know, it is the only boat of its kind anywhere at any price. The whitewater variant is a full-on creek boat and the only real differences are in color, cockpit design and outfitting. The fishing axess has a pretty cool rod holder built in as well. Its a nice nice boat, and yes, I have paddled it. take care have fun go fishing :wq Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

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Question:

Some of us C&R types advocate it not to be pompus or to hold the higher ethical ground. I release fish because I like to catch’m more than I like to eat them. Also I want to help manage a finite resourse. I figure if a fish can be caught more then once then its good for the fishery and the fisherman….not the fish. I don’t apologize for killing for sport, but C&R allows me to kill less. Hell golfers kill grass when they golf. I kill insects every day walking down the street. I guess your point is that if you don’t like trout (to eat that is) you have no business fishing. Do you return sub-eatables to the stream? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – – Views on Ethics Astream – (snipped) Ethics.. the ethics of taking your pleasure out of playing with the lives of another being?  If C&R flyfishers actually really, honestly cared all that much about ethics, they would take up hiking or some other activity where their actions are not akin to russian roulette on the life of another being. I know this is a little extreme, but I grow so tired of C&R people attempting to take the moral high road.. but to me, all I see is a bunch of empty justification for getting your enjoyment out of ‘playing’ with the lives of another species. IMHO, there’s far more honor in catching only what you will keep, and keeping a very small, responsible amount. I enjoy reading your writing.. so please don’t take this personally, but C&R is a knee-jerk response to a real problem.. unfortunately, it isn’t a solution. -Mark/Particle Salad Particle Salad/Noom Room Studio http://home.earthlink.net/~psalad

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Jon Cook: <<…..Well, here we agree. If you are an athiest, if you believe there is no good/evil/morality/ethics in the universe, then you do not owe anybody anything, whether they are a fish, your kid, whatever. Perhaps *that* is why Clinton doesn’t fly fish! Just a thought.

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I’ve followed this debate for a couple of years and I keep seeing the same things rehashed.  Has any of the contributors ever learned anything from it and modified their position to suit, or has this become as ritualized as watching Seinfeld reruns to TV eternity? Moe, you and your cronies argue C&R is immoral, shows lack of respect to animals, ruins the rivers etc.  The Ralphians argue that C&R is merely a tool to be employed or not, depending on circumstance.  Morality is irrelevant.  Someone with a Classical education can help me out here, but weren’t there two characters who were condemned for eternity to battle each other.  Well these guys should step aside for we have two new candidates for the job. There is no endgame to this, and maybe that’s the point.  It’s become a Seinfeld substitute.  In chess, repetitive moves can be ruled a stalemate. What else do we have here, but that.  Isn’t it about time somebody recognized that the other side may have made a valid point or two?  If there is no growth, no development in this debate, it just becomes a Usenet WWF tag team match, Moe and the Fish Breaths vs.. Ralphie and the Barbless.  No time limit, no falls, no referee, and eventually no audience. There’s no point me adding my two cents worth on the subject.  Somebody would just misrepresent it and go off on another tangential rant.  We already need half the farms in Iowa just to provide the hay for all the straw men that get built around here.  Can’t anyone see any merit in what the other side is saying, or have you dug your bunkers so deep, you can’t see out of them? KRR — remove nospam from Email address

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: :       well, now, jon, let’s think about that position for a moment. : i have known scores of folk who are either atheists or agnostics or : non-christians who both talk the talk and walk the walk in the theatre : of decent relationships with their fellow man just as well as "god : fearing christians, etc." Absolutely, me too. (btw, I only said atheist, so what the other groups have to do with anything, I don’t know). I only assert that it is impossible to tell an atheist they have a moral obligation to something.

You mean all I have to do is become an atheist and I can keep or release as many fish as I want to.  (In the words of Homer Simpson… WHOO HOO!)  I’m switchin’  :-) Later,      - Ken — Not speaking for anyone but myself

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: : ok so what is the problem that c&r is not the answer to? More anglers selfishly catching more than they should..

_______ THIS!  Is exactly the point Johnathan.  That I CAN Catch & Release 8 or more fish a day when I could have killed a limit of 6 instead and quit and gone home, IS just the point. If I can, as a sportsman, catch and release twenty, thirty, or more fish a day and not kill a one, THAT IS THE POINT. Selfish?  You bet.  What’s wrong with the word selfish?  There is nothing wrong with the word selfish, self interest and entertainment as long as that activity does  not demean the resource. Here, look at that stream.  It has six fishermen in it and 72 fish in it.  You’re the Seventh fisherman and all six of THEM catch their limit of six fish each, and then go away. You, on the other hand, that day, caught 36 fish and released them all, not hurting a one for another day. The next day, all six fishermen return and repeat the process because ‘the law’ says they may. You come back the third day and there is nothing left for you. Why do you then not see how beautiful  you are? Mr. G. Fishing only becomes by business when I am one and they are two. ? It means, I am only the minority.

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Try these (again !). The South Platte Below Cheesman The Frying Pan below Reudi The Green below Flaming Gorge The San Juan below Navajo . so are you saying that there are fewer fish and the fish are smaller and generally in poorer condition than BEFORE c&r regulations?

gross mismanagement by the States responsible.  First off, the number one enemy to wild fisheries are when the State starts introducing hatchery fish. Next, there are too many fishermen. etc. The answer is to manage a wild fishery as a wild fishery with no catch and kill allowed.  Any fish that is not handled properly, will die and the carcass will be picked up by an eagle, otter, etc.  BUT what won’t happen is the hand of man will not be allowed to fill an ego.  EGO destroys the size of the breeding stock than anything else. Where a section of stream could handle one catch and kill fisherman a month,  the same stretch can handle many more fly fishermen a week that catch and release. I can promise everyone that barbless hooks are one of the most exciting aspects to catch and release fishing in a century of inventions. Here, we fly fishermen will lose more then what comes to hand, but that we can hook up and get a wiggle or a leap or two before the majority of the fish get free – is reward enough.  This is why I always tell my guests,  "That you at least hooked up and got a turn or one leap, we regard as a fooled fish and caught if it had a barb." How would you like to fish.  With or without a barb?  If you catch and release? Mr. G.

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____ snipped some good stuff: the only solution that satisfies my hopes for my kids is a middle ground, boring as that stand might be:  be moderate in your days on the water. be moderate in the numbers of fish you catch.  kill only what you want to eat.  and then post a literate description of your experience on roff so us poor rednecks in the appalachians can vicariously enjoy the feeling of a 20 inch rainbow on the business end of a 7.5 thomas & thomas.         wayno

for bigger trout and/or fish like Steelhead Wayne? arrrrrrrrrrrggggggggggggggggh!   But I’ll do it. You can fish with anything out west you want to as long as its nine feet or more. 8′ 11” ’s won’t do. ; ) Mr. G.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snip the only solution that satisfies my hopes for my kids is a middle ground, boring as that stand might be:  be moderate in your days on the water. be moderate in the numbers of fish you catch.  kill only what you want to eat.  and then post a literate description of your experience on roff so us poor rednecks in the appalachians can vicariously enjoy the feeling of a 20 inch rainbow on the business end of a 7.5 thomas & thomas.        wayno well said wayno….. btw…. i never thought I’d be happy to see a return to roff of this timeless debate, it sure beats the g-wars. –Wataugan Walt p

Mr. G.

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: : ok so what is the problem that c&r is not the answer to? More anglers selfishly catching more than they should.. : Who or what says I owe a fish these kind of ethical/moral considerations?   Well, here we agree. If you are an athiest, if you believe there is no good/evil/morality/ethics in the universe, then you do not owe anybody anything, whether they are a fish, your kid, whatever.

        well, now, jon, let’s think about that position for a moment. i have known scores of folk who are either atheists or agnostics or non-christians who both talk the talk and walk the walk in the theatre of decent relationships with their fellow man just as well as "god fearing christians, etc."  a human being’s treatment of fish, as an animal or a golf ball, may have nothing whatsoever to do with that individual’s philosophy or religion.         this response is not meant to imply that i am directly opposed to your position on what a man does to fish when he tries to catch them.  i just want to make sure that if you posit that only "good people" c&k, then you and i have a difference of opinion. (snip)         wayno

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Is it just me or has anyone else noticed how Jon and Timbo follow my posts as certainly as Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum? [deleted] He’s using "The Chubakka Defense" again ! — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "Guilt replaced the creel…"

I resent that! I do not chubakka! I think it’s a disgusting and unhealthy habit. Besides my wife wouldn’t tolerate the spitunes! Ralph H

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Is it just me or has anyone else noticed how Jon and Timbo follow my posts as certainly as Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum? 8^) : : ok so what is the problem that c&r is not the answer to? More anglers selfishly catching more than they should..

oh so that’s the problem Mr Salad was talking about? : Who or what says I owe a fish these kind of ethical/moral considerations?   Well, here we agree. If you are an athiest, if you believe there is no good/evil/morality/ethics in the universe, then you do not owe anybody anything, whether they are a fish, your kid, whatever.

atheism does not equal amoralism. (BTW I officialy consider myself agnostic – I suspect there is a god but I have no idea what shape it takes – I suspect as people this shape is beyond our comprehension – but I have real trouble with the idea – since by definition it is beyond…) So you can put your prejudices away. I’d also say God’s expression and resolution of ethical and moral issues is perplexing to say the least. If you believe that man *does have* some sort of prescribed relationship to animals, that the term "animal abuse" can be meaningful in a moral or ethical way, then you have to decide what the ramifications are to that. It might involve how you fish.

 How might it unless you are a Hindu or animist – even then I don’t believe the ascribe the sort of ethical considerations you might give to fish on some obscure religious basis. I’d ask you to be more specific but I don’t think you can. Anyone else? Mr Salad? Ralph H

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Is it just me or has anyone else noticed how Jon and Timbo follow my posts as certainly as Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum?

[deleted] He’s using "The Chubakka Defense" again ! — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "Guilt replaced the creel…"

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [deleted] I’ve asked before but never got an answer – show me one water where the population of fish were quantitatively and qualitatively (for anglers) worse off after the introduction of c&r. Fuck Ralph… (why don’t ya try to double up on the ridilan [you alzheimeric bot !] Nothing like a good immature ad hominym attack to get this off on the right foot ! <g) Try these (again !). The South Platte Below Cheesman The Frying Pan below Reudi The Green below Flaming Gorge The San Juan below Navajo

And now I come in and ask if the conditions at these places are due to C&R being implemented or due to a population increase in population centers around those area.  Is C&R the cause or the affect? …Continue ad infiniteum… What were we supposed to do?  Blue 22 or something like that? Later,      - Ken — Not speaking for anyone but myself

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[deleted] I’ve asked before but never got an answer – show me one water where the population of fish were quantitatively and qualitatively (for anglers) worse off after the introduction of c&r.

Fuck Ralph… (why don’t ya try to double up on the ridilan [you alzheimeric bot !] Nothing like a good immature ad hominym attack to get this off on the right foot ! <g) Try these (again !). The South Platte Below Cheesman The Frying Pan below Reudi The Green below Flaming Gorge The San Juan below Navajo . . . Places I wouldn’t fish on a bet.  And I doubt you would either once you realized the score…. — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "Guilt replaced the creel…"

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Try these (again !). The South Platte Below Cheesman The Frying Pan below Reudi The Green below Flaming Gorge The San Juan below Navajo .

so are you saying that there are fewer fish and the fish are smaller and generally in poorer condition than BEFORE c&r regulations? BTW I am accepting all these rivers are strictly c&r – no slots no trophy bags. – excepting of course the San Juan – as has been pointed out you have repeatedly misrepresented the regs on that river. Ralph H

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[deleted] I guess your point is that if you don’t like trout (to eat that is) you have no business fishing.

[deleted] That is correct. Do you return sub-eatables to the stream?

Culling (Selective Harvest) is an ancient form of managing a natural resource. C&R is a 30 year old Knee-Jerk non-solution that allows rod manufacturers to multiply. — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "Guilt replaced the creel…"

Response:

Some of us C&R types advocate it not to be pompus or to hold the higher ethical ground. I release fish because I like to catch’m more than I like to eat them. Also I want to help manage a finite resourse… ? Ethics.. the ethics of taking your pleasure out of playing with the lives of another being?  If C&R flyfishers actually really, honestly cared all that much about ethics, they would take up hiking or some other activity where

. but to me, all I see is a bunch of empty justification for getting your enjoyment out of ‘playing’ with the lives of another species. IMHO, there’s far more honor in catching only what you will keep, and keeping a very small, responsible amount. I enjoy reading your writing.. so please don’t take this personally, but C&R is a knee-jerk response to a real problem.. unfortunately, it isn’t a solution.

ok so what is the problem that c&r is not the answer to? C&R is hardly a knee jerk response but has evolved over a period of generations. For generations it’s been accepted to let some fish – they are too small, they’re spawning, they are the wrong species. Some fishers then realized they could let many more go and provide more fish for themselves and for others tomorrow and the next year and in the next generation. Look at the results –  in many cases it worked – waters empty of mature fish repopulated with fish of all age classes. It’s hard as an angler to accept arguments that those populations of fish are worse off because of c&r. I’ve asked before but never got an answer – show me one water where the population of fish were quantitatively and qualitatively (for anglers) worse off after the introduction of c&r. C&R is a technique or tool – neither particular ethical or unethical in and of itself. As in most aspects of life ethical issues in fishing are not black and white as you seem to portray. Some examples; a recent email from a fisherman in England said tho’ the minimum size limit on his local waters is 7 inches he doesn’t kill anything under 9. Haig-Brown wrote he had a personal limit of 14 inches for much of his angling life on Vancouver Island when during that time the legal limit varied from 8 inches to nil. Are these anglers ‘playing’ with the life of other beings? How different are their rules from c&r? If there is a defined point where conservation says to release or kill how can anyone do otherwise without ‘breaking’ your ethical boundaries into sadism? What of other anglers who impose such limits on themselves? Who sets the limits and decides what’s the ethical and what is not? Do we want legislated morality that says we can only fish to kill and must kill what we catch? And of course this gets back to the question I posed some time ago and recently you Mr Salad – Who or what says I owe a fish these kind of ethical/moral considerations?   Ralph H

Response:

- Views on Ethics Astream – Ernie Schwiebert said it as well as anyone in Matching the Hatch. "The angling sportsman does not need dead trout or fish in his basket to feel satisfaction. He has long since proved to himself that he can catch trout and needs no proof for his companions. He does not fear the ridicule of others, for he knows that he could fill his limit if he wished. He counts as his highest reward the number of fish put back into the river for another day. He may bring in fish now and then if someone has expressed a desire for them, but he loves his fishing far to much to spoil it with wanton killing of the trout." Locating a large steelhead or salmon is the greatest thrill for the angler, for here is an adversary worthy of his skill. He may try for the fish for hours or even days without success, and still return home satisfied. Its not the dozens of fish taken that one remembers, but those few heavy, trophy steelhead taken or lost under difficult conditions we remember best. Just the knowledge that a big fish is present adds flavor to a pool or a secret place. Beginners may ask why one fishes if he is to release his catch. They fail to see that the `live steelhead’ or trout sucking in the fly and fighting the rod is the entire point of our sport. Dead fish are just so much lifeless meat. If food is the reason for fishing, then the fish market is a cheaper place to obtain it. We cannot begrudge the local angler his fish and the limits of the law for these are honorable reasons to fish, but the man who travels hundreds of miles and even thousands of miles to fish the stream is paying $50 for each pound of fish. When one stops to consider his motivation in the light of economics, it becomes obvious that he fishes for the sport and not the meat and more importantly . . . not to display his ego. Consider that the Clearwater and Snake Rivers are some of the finest Steelhead waters in the United States.  It’s a shame that I have yet to see anyone release one steelhead yet and it’s curious in the manner that the fish are kept by almost everyone in the area.  Consider the fact a suffocating demise is a torturous and hideous inconsideration. Here, a fish kept should be killed humanely with a sharp rap behind the head. He should be dressed immediately and his remains thrown away from the river for wildlife, not into the river. Again, as Ernie Schwiebert has so well put it, in his book Matching the Hatch, "The subject of etiquette along a river is difficult, for I hesitate to preach about sins that have been mine in the past. The regard for the rights of others is of primary concern and the inconsiderate fellow who shoulders in when you have taken a fish, wades through the water you are fishing, or the rafter who does the same, or proceeds to cast over the fish that you are working, is a thoughtless boor. There is no caste system on trout waters. The fish will rise to the crude fly dappled by the backwoods native as well as to the daintily imported one cast by the wealthy financier." Specific rules in angling etiquette are few, and common courtesy is the basis. It is poor form to enter a stream not far above another if he is fishing in that direction. The skillful angler doesn’t disturb the water much, but the beginner is likely to frighten the fish and put them down for some time. The large power-boat-owner that does not keep an gentleman’s eye upon the banks for wading fisherman or tube fisherman and who recklessly and wantonly allows his massive boat’s wake to attack the innocent people is quite simply, an ass and is a lawless, loose-cannon that cares little for the lives or safety of others fishing or using the joys a river provides. One should realize his own capabilities and enter the stream at a discreet distance above or below another man. The first man in the river has the right of way and we should not disturb his fun for he would most likely not disturb yours. Noticing your kindness is more apt to bring an invite and win you a lifelong friend, for along the river you are bound to find the best of mankind. As a matter of tradition the man wading upstream has the right of way, since the gentleman coming down is more likely to spoil the former’s chances. The one wading down should retire from the water and move unobtrusively around him. Often the inconsiderate will acknowledge the right of way and then wade noisily past or walk along in plain view of the fish. Don’t do this. Rafters, kayakers, drift boats and power boats should go behind the wading fisherman at a good distance, as they will pass in only a few seconds but the fisherman is left with nearly a half hour before his spooked fish return. I consider this thoughtlessness intolerable for some men will wade into position in the presence of a fish of a lifetime in almost impossible water and to a rafter the same water is a breeze. On the other hand, just because there is a rafter-kayaker-boater on the river doesn’t mean that the fishing is ruined just in his passing. But that the passing should be a pleasant experience for all parties concerned and not just one-sided, is the point.  Power boaters should always keep in mind that a fisherman wading is a "No Wake Zone." In being a writer, I want to capture the interest of as many as I possibly can. But to say that I’m here to win a popularity contest is a misconception, regarding fishing.  However, the Snake and Clearwater Rivers are fantastic, original and unique resources in this area around Clarkston Washington and today, they are but a whisper of what they once were in the past. Yet, their recreational powers are awesome and in this expanding population of America the use of their recreational attributes are on the increase as the quality of life of the rivers decrease.  We lack disaplines all across this nation with all our rivers and streams. We . . . you . . . and I, have long realized how precious our rivers are. The income that the Snake and Clearwater Drainage’s pulls into our area amounts in the millions of dollars each year. Behavioral examples we set will be the same examples others will follow in the future when it comes to river etiquette’s and their care.  Each fly fisherman must always ‘regard’ the quality of his waters and vanguard them. Many waters we fish are bordered by private property and we should respect that.  However;  cattle and livestock have little sanitary excuses, to be down by these rivers because it’s well known their filthy, polluting ways are not tolerated well by many forms of wildlife.  Cattle however, can be easily frightened and stampeded by the thoughtless angler with a resultant loss in weight or chance of injury. One ill-tempered bull can wrong many rights here . . . so shy away from cattle,  if you can, until they can be moved away from the river by authorized personnel when they are in areas they do not belong in.  Like it or not, there are too many ranchers that push the tolerance envelopes of common sense and who literally steal  habitat not belonging to them or the cattle they let roam, many times, irresponsibly. The hardest article to write is this kind because it can sound so quickly as if one is preaching. Some landowners who allow fishing build gates or stiles for fishermen to cross their fences, but then there is always some anarchist who carries wire-cutters or pliers to pull the staples. We can hardly blame the owners of posted land in some instances – but there is no law against landowners who never cared about sportsmen in the first place either.  When kindness is shown, we need to safeguard and protect those accesses to rivers passing through private properties.  Yet, the laws of propriety state that if we allow grazing on public lands at great monetary advantage to the Rancers, the habitat destruction and over-grazing they incure upon US as a society does not give them the right to be inconsiderate of gentle anglers wishing simply to savor trout waters shut off to them by fences and in many cases, illegally. The cardinal sin so often committed is the disfiguring of water or the land along it and we know today that the majority of it is done by people who are twenty five years of age and younger. A large majority still being in school . . . like it or not.  The younger generation today cannot keep clean even their bedrooms let alone being able to wear their pants above the crack of their ass. They seem to continue the contents and conditions of their bedrooms into the out-of-doors and it’s a national disgrace their parents allow such bedrooms which are their own report cards of undisciplined children to exist but it is our fault we let them disgrace the outdoors. The refuse that litters the rivers and adjacent beaches and campsites if often quite astonishing. But recent field trips prove the road-sides to contain much more trash than our local beaches do. In Hell’s Canyon, where the beaches are provided trash containers, the public uses them. But along the road on the Snake River where they are NOT provided, the roadside is a pig-sty. I cannot think of anything that makes the general public (who are by the majority,  clean) more irritated than to see a beer hog throw his can down. I guess, I can say it makes me annoyed too. I’ll admit that. Yet, if I let the hot flash pass, I have that big pocket in the back of my vest and I always try and bring two cans out every time I go to the river. It isn’t much, but we won’t have to look at it the next time we go back. Our Clearwater and Snake Rivers and ALL Rivers and Streams will continue to please many of us if we remember  a thought Isaac Walton wrote in 1653. "He that hopes to be a good angler must not only bring an inquiring, searching, observing wit; but he must also bring a large measure of hope and patience." In these days of hard-fished waters, ethics and philosophy play an ever increasing role in our enjoyment, and to Father Walton’s measure of hope and patience, let me add the spice … read more »

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was posted fragmented, but I will leave it alone because everyone should beable to get the gist of it.  My apologies. gg – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – todemean the subject matter at hand.  Ernie is a friend of mine as are everyone of you here are.  I’ve seen and done maybe something that wasn’t classy, but so have I seen the best of men screw up.  These events are not the litmus paper high marks that define a man’s life Ernie, and you know it. Ernie Schwiebert has had a terrific impact on the behavior of fly fishermen astream just because of his book "Matching the Hatch."  I don’t need confirmation of this fact from anyone because I have seen how dynamic his writings and works have been on our sport and the majority of his work has all been positive.  To my mind, after Lee Wulff died, the next icon that has the stature and body of work that is of a positive force is Ernest Schwiebert.  There is no questioning the sincerity this man brings to our streams.  We are fortunate to have such a genius that fly fishes, among us. I don’t expect  you are a great body of the men here to agree with me.  There was a period of a feeding frenzy regarding Ernie several years back and it had nothing to do with holding up a preserved fish.  Mr. Schwiebert has already mentioned that he is slow to talk about indiscretions that he may have committed himself in the past. Now what do we do?  Hit  him with this sort of inventory taking again, and again, and again?  I think not. I know this about Ernie Schwiebert.  Of late and I know he is still working on it, he has put his name and monetary fortune on the line fighting the corruption that had infested the guiding and booking agents there.  Mr. Schwiebert and company, some of which might be reading this group now, had guns pointed at them and the story is a complicated one.  Mr. Schwiebert will be the first to tell me I shouldn’t be talking about this here . . . but this is the kind of man he is.  He is fighting legal issues in Russia so we Americans can enjoy that which is basically corrupt. The Russian Government has been patient and are listening with interest to the case. This is a financial costly process and who is doing it for us?  Ernie Schwiebert. Frankly, he can kill a fish now and then all he wants.  BUT!  I understand your point Ernie Harrison and it is a good one.  Let’s not use it however to demean the man nor the good intent Ethics Astream is supposed to bring into our lives. Keep the fly in the ring of the rise. Sincerely, George Gehrke

Response:

– Views on Ethics Astream –

(snipped) Ethics.. the ethics of taking your pleasure out of playing with the lives of another being?  If C&R flyfishers actually really, honestly cared all that much about ethics, they would take up hiking or some other activity where their actions are not akin to russian roulette on the life of another being. I know this is a little extreme, but I grow so tired of C&R people attempting to take the moral high road.. but to me, all I see is a bunch of empty justification for getting your enjoyment out of ‘playing’ with the lives of another species. IMHO, there’s far more honor in catching only what you will keep, and keeping a very small, responsible amount.   I enjoy reading your writing.. so please don’t take this personally, but C&R is a knee-jerk response to a real problem.. unfortunately, it isn’t a solution. -Mark/Particle Salad Particle Salad/Noom Room Studio http://home.earthlink.net/~psalad

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I hate to burst your bubble but Schweibert was holding a large dead trout for a picture which appeared with his article in a fly fishing magazine. The caption said the trout was released back to the river, but the eyes said "Dead Fish" and I later heard that it had been frozen for a week so he could have his picture taken with it.   I wrote a letter to the magazine saying and said Mr. Schweibert should not pollute our rivers with dead fish, but never received a reply. — Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-Mail Selling my Fly Fishing Books Go to: http://users.ccnet.com/~emh – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – - Views on Ethics Astream – Ernie Schwiebert said it as well as anyone in Matching the Hatch. "The angling sportsman does not need dead trout or fish in his basket to feel satisfaction. <snip I am haunted by memories. Ethics in our lives makes them more perfect. gg

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– Views on Ethics Astream – [deleted] Ernie Schwiebert said it as well as anyone in Matching the Hatch. "The angling sportsman does not need dead trout or fish in his basket to feel satisfaction.

[deleted] Ernie Schwiebert never envisioned a hundred fly fishermen whoring his beloved frying pan. (My friend who is a licensed outfitter on the frying pan had [last week] a woman client pose topless with an 8 inch rainbow she had caught (then released) for a photograph.   This is what contempt for wildlife catch and release brings to the sport Ernie, George. I can no longer set forth with a clean conscience in those hallowed waters fouled by greed). Ernest Schwiebert had no idea to what level man in his greed would prostitute this notion (Bassmasters, One Fly…perhaps the worst of all "The Walleye Trail"). I doubt that (seeing these things) anyone could today preach this ill-founded ("Matching The Hatch", 1953) notion as some kind of manifest ethical destiny of the sport. C&R is not the bastion of sporting ethics you mistakingly believe it to be George. You are not the kingpin of ethicity you claim to be and I can prove it. The beautiful rainbow that you hold proudly on the photo at www.gink.com, …. Is the scale so slight that we can not see a creature that had just fought his lifes battle is now gasping to breathe in a suffocating foreign environment whose internal organs are crushing themselves as you hoist it one handed to be photographed ? Releasing it (whether it lives or not) wipes clean the slate for you ? What then of Ernest’s words "He has long since proved to himself that he can catch trout and needs no proof for his companions", can you (given your product, your website, this photograph) honestly claim to stand up to your own (Ernest’s) ethical standards ? Is the lens of our bias so out-of-focus that we can no longer see nor feel the error in this philosphy? Is the man that promotes the ’sport’ of fishing, perhaps, is the most unethical sportsman of all?. A fisherman launches his dory on an abandoned Maine beach seeking to catch fish to eat, to feed his family, or too sell.  No desire to simply catch a fish, photograph it for publicity.  He has no website with his picture on it. Aware of his role in nature, his requirement to respect nature and wildlife.  The unwritten contract of mankind.  Where we need to evolve to. This man, he is less ethical than you because he is just a ‘fisherman’ and not a ’sports-fisherman’? On his way home, "The Enlightened Ones" [standing in the surf with equipment worth more than some peoples cars] they can feel justified in shouting "why did you kill those fish ?" in some kind of Schwiebertesque chorous because they read your post on the internet or they thump "Matching The Hatch" as some kind of ‘bible’ ? Try Ernest’s half-logic on some rube, George. — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "Guilt replaced the creel…"

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Question:

I’m going to be in Ft. Myers, Florida in August.  Does anyone have any suggestions for fly fishing spots that are accessible on foot in the Ft. Myers beach, Sanibel Island area? –

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-  GEORGE ,

You can cast for snook and trout right from the beach in the morning. It’s fun! Stop in at a fly shop and ask for some local patterns. You may even see some tarpon. Best of luck, Gary C. Floridian Fly Fisherman "Lie ? Me ? Never!  No, no, no, the truth is far too much fun !" – Captain Hook

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Question:

Can anyone give me a hand in preparing for my first experience on the Connetquot.  I would greatly appreciate info. on fishing techniques, beats, flies and any other tips that may help.  I live in Montauk and would be happy to share some local wisdom on dynamite fly-rod spots for bass and blues. Tom Bogdan

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Tom, I would like to say all beats on the Connetquot are created equal but I don’t believe it. To start, there is no wading on beats 21 to 32 up stream of the hatchery, bank fishing only.  I like 24, 27-30. Beats 20 to 16 are reserved for  handicapped fishers. There is a deep water pond (20A I think) big fish in the pond but very hard fishing. Ask for the deep water pond beat with the rowboat. Down stream of the hatchery beats 15 to 8  you can wade. I like 12 -9. There 3 or 4 rowboats on the large pond. This is a good time of the year to fish the pond. Now for advice, GET THERE EARLY. It is first come first served on beat assignments. I have caught more fish with black wooly buggers than any other fly on this river. Black caddis pupa, prince and gold ribbed hares ear nymphs work. This time of the year there is not much in the way of hatches. There is a little, size 20 green with white wings, midge the trout love, some days and hate on others. Follow the park rules FF only, no plastic flies, no weighted flies, no lead and barbless hooks or you will be asked to leave and never return. If you see a blue 1990 Ford custom van say hi. OK so where ate the bass and blues? Good fishing, Dennis — Dennis C. Aron Independent Representative #13921 Champion Fishing Co., Ltd – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can anyone give me a hand in preparing for my first experience on the Connetquot.  I would greatly appreciate info. on fishing techniques, beats, flies and any other tips that may help.  I live in Montauk and would be happy to share some local wisdom on dynamite fly-rod spots for bass and blues. Tom Bogdan

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Question:

I’m planning a mid-March trip to the Eureka area.  Can anybody tell me the name and/or e-mail address of a good fly shop in the area.  What are the current conditions.  Is there a preferred river among the Mad, Eel, Klamath or Smith?  I would appreciate any information from locals or others knowledgeable of the area.

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Check the following site for N. Californaia coast fishing and river information. http://www.northcoastweb.com/fishing/ For fly shop in Eureka check: Eureka Fly Shop 505 H st. Eureka, Ca 707-444-2000 URL:  http://www.northcoastweb.com/fishing/efs/index.htm Mike

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Path:

news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net!news-m01.ny.us.ibm.net!newsfeed.uk.ibm.net!arclight. uore gon.edu!news.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!newsxfer3.itd.umich.e du!p ortc01.blue.aol.com!newstf02.news.aol.com!audrey01.news.aol.com!not-for-mai l – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Lines: 7 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com Xref: news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net rec.outdoors.fishing.fly:58966 I’m planning a mid-March trip to the Eureka area.  Can anybody tell me the name and/or e-mail address of a good fly shop in the area.  What are the current conditions.  Is there a preferred river among the Mad, Eel, Klamath or Smith?  I would appreciate any information from locals or others knowledgeable of the area.

Contact Eureka Fly Shop…707-444-2000

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Question:

The Atlantic FLy Fishing School, Brookfield, Nova Scotia,  is sponsoring a BASIC fly tying course — Instructor Joie Coe owner of "The Fly Box" Beginning  January 12th. 1997 for 7 Sundays.   2 pm to 4:30 pm Cost $45.00 per person Register early  - 902 673-2590

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: Just a thought – anybody thought of an on-line course, via Webs and : e-mail? : Again just a thought from someone too far away and too poor to fly to the : Nova Scotia site. I don’t know what could be done via the Web that is not already beign done with books and video tape. It would be just as effective (or not?) I have learned from my students that there is nothing like first hand instruction to clear up the problems that they are having trying to learn to tie or cast. Jon Porter

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Just a thought – anybody thought of an on-line course, via Webs and e-mail? Again just a thought from someone too far away and too poor to fly to the Nova Scotia site. B. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The Atlantic FLy Fishing School, Brookfield, Nova Scotia,  is sponsoring a BASIC fly tying course — Instructor Joie Coe owner of "The Fly Box" Beginning  January 12th. 1997 for 7 Sundays.   2 pm to 4:30 pm Cost $45.00 per person Register early  - 902 673-2590

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I agree Jon. Someone asked me about this recently as well. Al Beatty’s VFS article on Wonder Wings is an excellent example of what can be done for an individual pattern but I don’t think a course including such things as basic thread handling procedures would work very well. Paul Marriner – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : Just a thought – anybody thought of an on-line course, via Webs and : e-mail? : Again just a thought from someone too far away and too poor to fly to the : Nova Scotia site. I don’t know what could be done via the Web that is not already beign done with books and video tape. It would be just as effective (or not?) I have learned from my students that there is nothing like first hand instruction to clear up the problems that they are having trying to learn to tie or cast. Jon Porter

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Then again, Jon, maybe we just need to think outside the box.  I heard an ‘expert’ on computer learning speaking on Public Radio the other night.  His pitch was that the www and computer based instructional materials will only be effective if they DO NOT try to recreate traditional methods of teaching, just on a computer. The idea seemed to be along the lines of folks (particularly kids) learn best when they are free to follow their interests to natural conclusion.  With appropriate links and without attempts to ‘route’ the user, the computer lends itself to this paradigm.  Just make sure one link is to the ‘thread control’ module!  :^) Charley – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : Just a thought – anybody thought of an on-line course, via Webs and : e-mail? : Again just a thought from someone too far away and too poor to fly to the : Nova Scotia site. I don’t know what could be done via the Web that is not already beign done with books and video tape. It would be just as effective (or not?) I have learned from my students that there is nothing like first hand instruction to clear up the problems that they are having trying to learn to tie or cast. Jon Porter

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: Then again, Jon, maybe we just need to think outside the box.  I : heard an ‘expert’ on computer learning speaking on Public Radio : the other night.  His pitch was that the www and computer based : instructional materials will only be effective if they DO NOT : try to recreate traditional methods of teaching, just on a computer. : The idea seemed to be along the lines of folks (particularly kids) : learn best when they are free to follow their interests to natural : conclusion.  With appropriate links and without attempts to ‘route’ : the user, the computer lends itself to this paradigm.  Just make : sure one link is to the ‘thread control’ module!  :^) Pushing buttons on a keyboard is different from the manipulations required to tie a decent, long lasting fly. Yes, it could be learned by trial and error, but I think that it is cheaper to get instruction, than to pay for wasted materials. Could just let em learn to drive from a book. Why have the other gut sitting in the seat next to em?  Less screaming that way. Jon Porter

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Question:

I have been a fly fisherman for years and have always told myself "next week I’m going to start tying my own".  But unforseen occurences and the availability of a few good buddies who are excellent tyers have kept me from it.  Well, now I’m ready, but I would like input on a good "Starter Kit".  Something I won’t have to replace quickly, but one that is also fairly easy to start using. Thanks in advance.

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I have been a fly fisherman for years and have always told myself "next week I’m going to start tying my own".  But unforseen occurences and the availability of a few good buddies who are excellent tyers have kept me from it.  Well, now I’m ready, but I would like input on a good "Starter Kit".  Something I won’t have to replace quickly, but one that is also fairly easy to start using.

You might want to drop in on rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.tying then. The general consensus there is that most beginners kits are not very good and that you’re better off buying only the necessary, but of decent quality, picking a few patterns that you’d like to tie, and then buying the materials necessary to tie them.  Come on over to rofft and we’ll give some specific recommendations on vices other tools, and some good patterns to start with. — John Fereira Isis Distributed Systems – Ithaca, NY

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been a fly fisherman for years and have always told myself "next week I’m going to start tying my own".  But unforseen occurences and the availability of a few good buddies who are excellent tyers have kept me from it.  Well, now I’m ready, but I would like input on a good "Starter Kit".  Something I won’t have to replace quickly, but one that is also fairly easy to start using. You might want to drop in on rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.tying then. The general consensus there is that most beginners kits are not very good and that you’re better off buying only the necessary, but of decent quality, picking a few patterns that you’d like to tie, and then buying the materials necessary to tie them.  Come on over to rofft and we’ll give some specific recommendations on vices other tools, and some good patterns to start with. — John Fereira Isis Distributed Systems – Ithaca, NY

I started out with a simple kit from Bass Pro shops for 35.00 I have since added the type of materials that I want to use to tie flys. It’s very addicting!!! Be careful…  My wife dosen’t know if I like tying the lures or actually using them.  Get a decent book from the library that shows you the recipe for the particular flies you want to tie. Then go from there..  Happy Fishing Sandman

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