Question:

        Pickerel Jim has expressed a desire to invite a bunch of you fine fellas to a fly-fishing for carp rodeo… there’ll be prizes (beware of PJ offerings), and he will reserve the west wing of the Hyde-Away resort in Fairfield NC near Lake Mattamuskeet in Hyde County if enough hardy carp men (and women) sign up…  he seemed serious at the time, but the Bacardi Black was almost gone when the idea sprang forth from his grinnin jowls.  still, on a trip a few weeks ago we watched huge carp leaping about like mullet (mating, spawning behavior?) in a pretty back woods spot of more than a 100 acres of water that can be waded easily… had no idea how to fish for them at the time with equipment we had, but looks like it would be fun to hook ol Mr. Limpet… jeff jeff

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   Pickerel Jim has expressed a desire to invite a bunch of you fine fellas to a fly-fishing for carp rodeo… there’ll be prizes (beware of PJ offerings), and he will reserve the west wing of the Hyde-Away resort in Fairfield NC near Lake Mattamuskeet in Hyde County if enough hardy carp men (and women) sign up…  he seemed serious at the time, but the Bacardi Black was almost gone when the idea sprang forth from his grinnin jowls.  still, on a trip a few weeks ago we watched huge carp leaping about like mullet (mating, spawning behavior?) in a pretty back woods spot of more than a 100 acres of water that can be waded easily… had no idea how to fish for them at the time with equipment we had, but looks like it would be fun to hook ol Mr. Limpet… jeff

That is soooo tempting . . . Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Question:

I am a beginning fly fisher and am leaving soon for 2 weeks in Glacier NP.  I’ll be leaving So. Calif. and staying on I-15 until I hit Butte and then will be taking I-90 and then state 93 to Flathead Lake. Can anyone suggest a few places not too far from I-15 or I-90 or highway 93 that might offer me a taste of Montana stream fishing?  I have waders but no float tube. Bill W. in SoCal

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Can anyone suggest a few places not too far from I-15 or I-90 or highway 93 that might offer me a taste of Montana stream fishing?  I have waders but no float tube.

Try the Big Hole (off of I-15 south of Butte).

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Yes, at the town of Melrose. Try to stay below Divide as the water is really low and actually the upper river is closed due to low flow. See http://www.fwp.state.mt.us/drought/closures.asp . Also, from I-90, consider the upper Clark Fork near Warm Springs (refer to your fishing regs once you get here, there are some ponds and some river) and the Little Blackfoot near Garrison. Of course, there is always the Big Blackfoot and Rock Creek. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can anyone suggest a few places not too far from I-15 or I-90 or highway 93 that might offer me a taste of Montana stream fishing?  I have waders but no float tube. Try the Big Hole (off of I-15 south of Butte).

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Question:

Hi Further to my (much) earlier post, I am planning a holiday in August (regret no other time available). It will be a ‘fly drive’, starting in Calgary, to Banff, Jasper, Sun Peaks, Harrison Hot Springs, Vancouver. I have a visit to family in Vancouver to fit in along with limited fishing. My original plan was to fish the Vedder or Harrison for pink salmon, (probably for a few hours on a couple of days) which I understand are plentiful. I will be practicing catch and release, having no need to kill fish. Is this the best option on a limited time scale and budget, or are there better ones? I will be bringing my 4 piece 6/7 rod and matching reel, prepared to hire other gear as necessary. Any advice gratefully received and probably acted upon. TIA Chris, surfin’ from the UK. — Throw him in the river and he will come up with a fish in his mouth.                                                                 Arabian proverb. Where’s this river then?

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Chris…I used to fish the Bow river for many years with a drift boat and I made a driving trip to Banff, Jasper and over into BC. I took the trunk road from Calgary. It runs along the "foothills" of the eastern slopes of the Canadian Rockies. Beautiful scenery, no people in the campgrounds and you cross many streams which hold plenty of trout. If you love to camp this is the drive for you. Good fishing…Capt. Ted Bobetsky

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Question:

Anyone have any suggestions about cleaning floating lines???  Seems I came across a bottle of Fenwick line cleaner in my odds and ends box a few months ago and struck upon the bright idea of cleaning up my fly lines.  Well I cleaned a 2 year old Sage quiet taper 2wt and an Orvis 6wt DT with about 5 years on it and discovered after fishing with them over the last few month that they both started showing extreme wear.  Both now have concentric cracks ringing the lines where there were none before… lots of them…. or at least none were noticeable before.  Both of these lines look ruined. Any thoughts??

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Anyone have any suggestions about cleaning floating lines???  Seems I came across a bottle of Fenwick line cleaner in my odds and ends box a few months ago and struck upon the bright idea of cleaning up my fly lines.  Well I cleaned a 2 year old Sage quiet taper 2wt and an Orvis 6wt DT with about 5 years on it and discovered after fishing with them over the last few month that they both started showing extreme wear.  Both now have concentric cracks ringing the lines where there were none before… lots of them…. or at least none were noticeable before.  Both of these lines look ruined. Any thoughts??

______  The fly lines were dried out Ed.  When you casted them, they couldn’t stretch.  The coating cracked, especially where the fly line (about thirty feet back) pivots on the tip top of your fly rod.  There is only one fly line cleaner in the world that will restore the Plasticizers into fly lines.  I’d suggest you check out my web site for that answer.  Two fly lines is a lot of money.  Sorry you lost them Ed. Just throw them away now.  They’re shot.  Or just go to the blue thingie below. Hope this helps answer your question. — Sincerely, George G. http://www.gink.com/products/gg_pz.html

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Why don’t you just turn the double taper around?  If it’s a two year old line, unless you fish it every day it should still be plenty good… if the coating is ruined on a line that "new" the manufacturer should be willin to replace it.  Typically, a FFer uses the first 30-40 feet of a DT line more than anything else, so if you turn it around, you’ll be at a diifferent "wear spot" than before =) A good habit to get into, especially if you fish infrequentyly is removing line from reels… the tight coils aren’t a real good way to store the line, and when you fish with it, the water on the outer coils seeps down onto the inner coils, leaaving moisture on the line, allowing it to collect dust and dirt. Strip the line off the reel into a bucket of warm water, then draw it through a damp cotton cloth with a SMALL amount of a MILD detergent (like Ivory soap) on it into another bucket of cool water.  Draw the line back through a dry cotton cloth into loose coils onto a clean surface.  Coil the line loosely and hang it on a hanger that has a t-shirt over the wire, then place another tshirt over it and hang it in a cool, dark place until you’re going to use it again. I do this at the end of every season and have had some Cortland and Mastery lines last 5 years with no real signs of damage… I have some Scientific Anglers seldom used lines, like quick sinking and sink-tips that are 15 years old and aren’t cracked. If you use a line in water with a lot of moss in it or salt, then you will need to wash and treat the line with a dressing on a more frequent basis, but be careful what you use… some products have lanolin in them, which will get rancid others are petrochemical based, which will eat into the coating of the lines.  Try and contact the line manufacturer if you’re unsure what may react with the coatings to be sure what you use won’t void your warranty. Larry

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Question:

finer tippets and different flies till ya get it figured out…..have the local shop recommend a fly or two.

And that would be Tulpehocken Creek Outfitters in West Reading.   Helpful, good guys in my limited experience there.    (On W. Penn Ave.?  Tom?) Joe F.

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One of the biggest problems i see are the fish going right up to the fly and kind of nosing it and turning around.  Well  not to keep yammering on and on i’ll close  here and thanks in advance for any and all info. minkaz

As a newbie you will want to get some basics down and have confidence they are working for you.  I suggest you switch to a #14 Royal Wulff dry on a 5X tippet.  If you are using a tapered leader get one which goes down to 5X.  IF you have plenty of casting room get your line into the air and false cast letting out a little line as you go until you get 30 ft. or so out then lay it on the water.  Add power to your strokes as you add line.  Finesse and control will come with practice. Make sure to hold the line in your opposit hand and running over your rod hand index finger.  Watch the fly and at the strike set the hook with the LINE hand and not the rod.  Tightening up on the rod with the index finger at the same time also gives you a quicker set response. DO NOT TAKE YOUR EYES OFF THE FLY NOR DROP THE LINE!  This is important for a newbie to get used to the strike response. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

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: Are you hauling or just casting?  If you’re double hauling and only getting 20 : feet, you do have a problem.  If you are just "flipping" the line, learn to : haul. To get past 20′ you *do not* need to learn to haul!

Um, I didn’t say you did, _but_ to get (long) distance, you *do* need to learn to haul, and it especially important with "basic" equipment (one can do a lot of things if one has no regard for equipment), so they may as well learn now.  That said, the poster gave very little info, but _seemed_ to want distance – "Any tips on increasing distance?"  IMO, yes – learn to haul.  If you disagree, you’re wrong, but I’ll agree to disagree.  Also, learning to haul will, IMO, help with casting/timing/"feeling" in an all-around fashion, but that _is_ JMO. TC, R

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Goldens?  In NE PA?  Um……no, I don’t think so.  You might want to have another look at your field guide. The fish commission here has an excellent stocking program.. They release 50 or 60 goldens in this area as trophy fish each year.  It is true however that we have no natural goldens.

Wow this guy’s pretty good – way to keep your cool minkaz. I’m more concerned with getting a good presentation at this point than distance.

Good man! Regards, Jeff

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I’m was casting about 20 ‘ of fly line.

So that’s roughly a 30′ cast. You can catch a lot of fish with that, as long as the surface isn’t real smooth or the trout wary. Regards, Jeff

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Um, I didn’t say you did, _but_ to get (long) distance, you *do* need to learn to haul, and it especially important with "basic" equipment (one can do a lot of things if one has no regard for equipment), so they may as well learn now.  That said, the poster gave very little info, but _seemed_ to want distance – "Any tips on increasing distance?"  IMO, yes – learn to haul.  If you disagree, you’re wrong, but I’ll agree to disagree.  Also, learning to haul will, IMO, help with casting/timing/"feeling" in an all-around fashion, but that _is_ JMO.

A cast of 30 feet is more than adequate in most stream situations, especially when fishing dries like the gentleman was describing. ALL anglers can control drag and make more accurate presentations and cast at shorter distances. Few, even experienced anglers, can really control drag and presentation on a stream at distances over this.  Instead of trying for more distance, my advice would be to first learn to: cast accurately within this 30′ distance stalk and wade carefully control drag make a "delicate" presentation control the line make reasonable fly selections Willi

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : Are you hauling or just casting?  If you’re double hauling and only getting 20 : feet, you do have a problem.  If you are just "flipping" the line, learn to : haul. To get past 20′ you *do not* need to learn to haul! Um, I didn’t say you did, _but_ to get (long) distance, you *do* need to learn to haul, and it especially important with "basic" equipment (one can do a lot of things if one has no regard for equipment), so they may as well learn now.  That said, the poster gave very little info, but _seemed_ to want distance – "Any tips on increasing distance?"  IMO, yes – learn to haul.  If you disagree, you’re wrong, but I’ll agree to disagree.  Also, learning to haul will, IMO, help with casting/timing/"feeling" in an all-around fashion, but that _is_ JMO. TC, R

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Um, I didn’t say you did, _but_ to get (long) distance, you *do* need to learn to haul, and it especially important with "basic" equipment (one can do a lot of things if one has no regard for equipment), so they may as well learn now.  That said, the poster gave very little info, but _seemed_ to want distance – "Any tips on increasing distance?"  IMO, yes – learn to haul.  If you disagree, you’re wrong, but I’ll agree to disagree.  Also, learning to haul will, IMO, help with casting/timing/"feeling" in an all-around fashion, but that _is_ JMO. A cast of 30 feet is more than adequate in most stream situations, especially when fishing dries like the gentleman was describing. ALL anglers can control drag and make more accurate presentations and cast at shorter distances. Few, even experienced anglers, can really control drag and presentation on a stream at distances over this.  Instead of trying for more distance, my advice would be to first learn to: cast accurately within this 30′ distance stalk and wade carefully control drag make a "delicate" presentation control the line make reasonable fly selections

Agreed, somewhat.  Originally, I was simply addressing the distance question, but I do think learning to haul is a needed skill.  I will admit I may have being somewhat presumptive, but I did think by "distance" the poster meant more than going from 20 feet to 30 feet.  Usually when someone on ROFF (especially newbies) brings up distance, they seem to mean "casting tourney" distances, and, IMO, even the lower end of that range is nearly *impossible* (I’d say *_IMPOSSIBLE_*, but I never say that…<G) without a double haul, especially with an novice and a fishing-built rod, much less a vet and a tournament-built rod (which is why they are/were two different rods).  If you care, look up some of my posts for my opinions on the "gotta go long" thinking. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Willi

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Nahhhh.  You go JeffC.  Just let us know how it works out

Hmm, half the shit I get is for complaining to much and not contributing too discussions actually related too fly fishing.  Half the shit I get is for adding to much too fly fishing discussions.  The other half of the shit I get is for being a general wiseass, jackass, or just plane pimply white ass.  I’m sure you’ll understand if I just post what I want to — Regards, Jeff Before you buy.

Response:

As a newbie you will want to get some basics down and have confidence they are working for you.  I suggest you switch to a #14 Royal Wulff dry on a 5X tippet.

But wouldn’t you want to know what kind of water he’s fishing before recommending a fly like that?  All we know so far as that where he’s fishing is: "small creek about 15 feet across.  I found a nice pool that’s is really close to crysal clear."  It could be a smooth surfaced, clear spring creek.  We also know he’s getting a lot of refusals.  Would you recommend the same or different fly for that? — Regards, Jeff Before you buy.

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We also know he’s getting a lot of refusals.

Correction – he’s getting rises but not hooking them – don’t know if they are refusals or not. — Regards, Jeff Before you buy.

Response:

(uninformed snipped) Regards, Jeff

On Eastern streams the RW is an excellent all-a-round searching pattern well suited for small stream use.  His objective here is to "learn the methodology" and take a few fish.  He will get enough takers on the size and fly type recommended to develop the striking technique, have a fly visible enough to watch on the surface to develop his line handling techniques, and a "close enough" match to many hatches in the region this time of year.  Entomology, selective line handling, water reading, and casting improvement will be developed over time with on-water practice. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

Response:

As a newbie you will want to get some basics down and have confidence they are working for you.  I suggest you switch to a #14 Royal Wulff dry on a 5X tippet. But wouldn’t you want to know what kind of water he’s fishing before recommending a fly like that

    i don’t give a damn if you are fishing the lava flow in hawaii, or the runoff from victoria falls.  if there’s a trout in the water, he will come about as close to hitting a rw as anything else. wayno

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Are you casting 20 feet between you and the fly, or 20 feet of flyline? It may not be that you’re jumping the gun, but of course it might  They may be rising to it but not actually taking it in their mouths.  You could try a more sparsely tied fly (for example a thorax or no hackle instead of a Wullf style, if the water is fairly flat).  Or you could just try a size or 2 smaller.  Or you could try a longer, lighter tippet. Regards, Jeff

Response:

You MAY be setting the hook to fast.  Then again you may not be fast enough.  Fish will spit anything that doesn’t feel right.  Timing is critical. If you’re getting fish to rise to your fly you don’t need to cast any further.  Don’t worry about it. Distance will come with practice. Goldens?  In NE PA?  Um……no, I don’t think so.  You might want to have another look at your field guide.

The fish commission here has an excellent stocking program.. They release 50 or 60 goldens in this area as trophy fish each year.  It is true however that we have no natural goldens.  I was just out for a little bit this morning and the casting is coming along due to some really good advice.  I’m more concerned with getting a good presentation at this point than distance.   just looking ahead for some pond/lake fishing but for now i’m happy as a clam at the creeks and streams in the area..   thank again for all the info minkaz

Response:

Are you casting 20 feet between you and the fly, or 20 feet of flyline? It may not be that you’re jumping the gun, but of course it might  They may be rising to it but not actually taking it in their mouths.  You could try a more sparsely tied fly (for example a thorax or no hackle instead of a Wullf style, if the water is fairly flat).  Or you could just try a size or 2 smaller.  Or you could try a longer, lighter tippet. Regards, Jeff

I’m was casting about 20 ‘ of fly line.  i’ve gotten better today though so the distance is coming.. I received some info stating i was probably moving the rod too much and it was the case…   i had a little rainbow on this morning but it spit the hook.  still lots of fun though. be going out later. thanks again minkaz

Response:

Hello all I’ve been reading this newsgroup for a few days and have gotten a wealth of information from it.  I am new to fly fishing and am looking for some advice.  I’ve gotten my cast down pretty good well good for the creek i fish..  I can’t get decent distance but the presentation seems to be not too bad.  Any tips on increasing distance?  I’m only getting about 20 feet now, which is about double what i was getting heheeh. Now for the big question.. I’ve been fishing for trout in a small creek and  i’ve been using dry flies and have gotten a lot of hits.. fishing is good here in NE PA.  However i can’t seem to get a good hookset or any hookset for that matter…. probably me jumping the gun but any advice on this would be appreciated. Equipment i’ve been using is a cheap combo i wanted to try out just to get into it a bit more to see if i liked it before investing a ton of cash.  It’s a pflueger rod 5-6   using a #6 wf flyline and a tapered leader.  whole thing cost me about 35 bucks and i’ve gotten some activity from the trout just can’t seem to land one.   One of the biggest problems i see are the fish going right up to the fly and kind of nosing it and turning around.  Well  not to keep yammering on and on i’ll close  here and thanks in advance for any and all info. minkaz

Response:

Hello all I’ve been reading this newsgroup for a few days and have gotten a wealth of information from it.  I am new to fly fishing and am looking for some advice.  I’ve gotten my cast down pretty good well good for the creek i fish..  I can’t get decent distance but the presentation seems to be not too bad.  Any tips on increasing distance?  I’m only getting about 20 feet now, which is about double what i was getting heheeh.

Are you hauling or just casting?  If you’re double hauling and only getting 20 feet, you do have a problem.  If you are just "flipping" the line, learn to haul. Now for the big question.. I’ve been fishing for trout in a small creek and  i’ve been using dry flies and have gotten a lot of hits.. fishing is good here in NE PA.  However i can’t seem to get a good hookset or any hookset for that matter…. probably me jumping the gun but any advice on this would be appreciated.

1st, sharpen your hooks, then work on your technique – practice, practice, practice. Equipment i’ve been using is a cheap combo i wanted to try out just to get into it a bit more to see if i liked it before investing a ton of cash.  It’s a pflueger rod 5-6   using a #6 wf flyline and a tapered leader.  whole thing cost me about 35 bucks and i’ve gotten some activity from the trout just can’t seem to land one.  

IMO, the cost of the equipment shouldn’t be the deciding factor in catching fish and see above about practice. One of the biggest problems i see are the fish going right up to the fly and kind of nosing it and turning around.  Well  not to keep yammering on and on i’ll close  here and thanks in advance for any and all info.

Then they almost certainly realize something’s up.  Perhaps a further description of your tackle and typical conditions.  What patterns are you using? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -minkaz

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Hello all I’ve been reading this newsgroup for a few days and have gotten a wealth of information from it.  I am new to fly fishing and am looking for some advice.

        ken fortenberry is our on duty newbie advice person this week, minkaz, and it would appear that he is temporarily occupied elsewhere. i am quite certain that he will return shortly with a wealth of information for you.  if he doesn’t show in an hour or so, email me with specific questions and i will do the best i can to be of assistance. wayno         p.s.:  what kind of vehicle do you own?

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Any tips on increasing distance? check out books and videos from the library Equipment I’ve been using is a cheap combo

good for you…money aint the thing…. One of the biggest problems i see are the fish going right up to the fly and kind of nosing it and turning a round. finer tippets and different flies till ya get it figured out…..have the local shop recommend a fly or two. flies, finer tippets and sneaky’s the key….for now anyhow

Response:

Nahhhh.  You go JeffC.  Just let us know how it works out (notwithstanding the Richardson Lady.  For GOD’S sake, don’t make her mad…). Tom – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello all I’ve been reading this newsgroup for a few days and have gotten a wealth of information from it.  I am new to fly fishing and am looking for some advice.         ken fortenberry is our on duty newbie advice person this week, minkaz, and it would appear that he is temporarily occupied elsewhere. i am quite certain that he will return shortly with a wealth of information for you.  if he doesn’t show in an hour or so, email me with specific questions and i will do the best i can to be of assistance. wayno         p.s.:  what kind of vehicle do you own?

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Then they almost certainly realize something’s up.  Perhaps a further description of your tackle and typical conditions.  What patterns are you using? typical conditions where i fish are:  small creek about 15 feet across..  I found a nice pool that’s is really close to crysal clear. i’ts over 6.5 feet deep i know due to me being a newbie at rock climbing also lol.   anyway i’ve been seeing lots and lots of trout in the pool and also at the far end of it in the shallows.  i caught a golden there the other day with my ultralight.  patterns?  i have no idea i’ve been tying on so many different flies and just going with what they chase. So far what’s worked best is an ant and anything that has some yellow or brown color in it.   I have had a few bites but the old heart got pounding and i guess i went to set the hook to fast. Hopefully i’ll settle down with that or i’ll be moving into a cardiac care center.  Again thanks for all the replies

You MAY be setting the hook to fast.  Then again you may not be fast enough.  Fish will spit anything that doesn’t feel right.  Timing is critical. If you’re getting fish to rise to your fly you don’t need to cast any further.  Don’t worry about it. Distance will come with practice. Goldens?  In NE PA?  Um……no, I don’t think so.  You might want to have another look at your field guide.

Response:

   ken fortenberry is our on duty newbie advice person this week, minkaz, and it would appear that he is temporarily occupied elsewhere. i am quite certain that he will return shortly with a wealth of information for you.  if he doesn’t show in an hour or so, email me with specific questions and i will do the best i can to be of assistance. wayno    p.s.:  what kind of vehicle do you own?

hehe i drive an old 79 ford f150 pick up that i’m in the process of restoring.. but i’m not a plummer hehehehe

Response:

Then they almost certainly realize something’s up.  Perhaps a further description of your tackle and typical conditions.  What patterns are you using?

typical conditions where i fish are:  small creek about 15 feet across..  I found a nice pool that’s is really close to crysal clear. i’ts over 6.5 feet deep i know due to me being a newbie at rock climbing also lol.   anyway i’ve been seeing lots and lots of trout in the pool and also at the far end of it in the shallows.  i caught a golden there the other day with my ultralight.  patterns?  i have no idea i’ve been tying on so many different flies and just going with what they chase. So far what’s worked best is an ant and anything that has some yellow or brown color in it.   I have had a few bites but the old heart got pounding and i guess i went to set the hook to fast. Hopefully i’ll settle down with that or i’ll be moving into a cardiac care center.  Again thanks for all the replies minkaz

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Question:

Hello all, This is my third year fly fishing and I am gearing up for another great season. I live in NH which I feel fortunate for because we have some fine fishing up here. My question…I’m wondering what the lifespan of my line is? I have scientific angler on my reel and it has served me well for the last two years I keep it clean and it casts smooth but is it time to retire it and re-line my reel? Upon examination the line seems to have many little kinks in it, I mean very small kinks, but it doesn’t seem to affect the cast. I need the proverbial collective wisdom. Keith

Response:

Is your line cracked? If it has many tiny cracks–it’s time to get a new one. I fish every day in the summer–and I’m very lucky to get one entire season out of a flyline.

Response:

Hello all, This is my third year fly fishing and I am gearing up for another great season. I live in NH which I feel fortunate for because we have some fine fishing up here. My question…I’m wondering what the lifespan of my line is? I have scientific angler on my reel and it has served me well for the last two years I keep it clean and it casts smooth but is it time to retire it and re-line my reel? Upon examination the line seems to have many little kinks in it, I mean very small kinks, but it doesn’t seem to affect the cast. I need the proverbial collective wisdom. Keith

Cleaner and Dressing, Gehrke’s PZ.  It will return the plasticizers back into it.  Naturally, it is the only product in the world that can/will do that Keith.  If your fly line isn’t cracked yet, which is the next thing it will do if you start casting and stretching it in this condition (before PZ repairing it) you should get a new fly line even if for just a back up. Keep them in the fridge in the off season in zip lock bags.  This keeps the plasticizers from evaporating.  Fly lines DO HAVE a short shelf life.  They hate light, sun light, heat, and especially water but definitely, soap and water is worse still.  This statement trashes all the wives tales on how to best clean fly lines.  Do not use soap and water unless you have PZ Fly Line Dressing and Cleaner immediately at hand Keith.  Finally, if the cost of a fly line is of concern, trot down to Wal-Mart and get a Cortland fly line for only $11.57.  These are all I fish excepting of course Lee Wulff Triangle Taper Fly Lines. Hope this information is of help to you buddy. Mr. G. — Visit: http://www.gink.com        http://www.xink.com        http://www.rodbuilding.com        http://www.rodbuilder.com All Writings & Rights Reserved

Question:

Eric was quick to say he thought whirling disease was a bad deal, that it undoubtedly played a significant part. But he (and others, increasingly) also pointed out that whirling disease seems to coincide with poor stream conditions: overly silted streambeds below damns or in badly cattle-tromped creeks, like lower Hound Creek and/or the Ruby.

You may have something with the contributing factors involved with WD. It seems to follow here in CO, the areas I know of that are hardest hit by WD are silted areas. Maybe silt is needed in the parasites life cycle. Anyone know if there’s been any research on this? One of the stretches of the Colorado that has lost almost all of its rainbow s under sixteen inches has numerous silty areas. It was an extremely good rainbow fishery before WD.  The remaining rainbows have been spawning successfully but are dying when young. Browns have started to fill in the void. Does anyone know if Cutts are as susceptible to WD as rainbows? Willi

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What is the current thought on taking fish that are obviously infected? Is it in any way our responsibility to kill fish that are deformed and doomed to a slow miserable death? Is there a mechanism for reporting infected fish that are caught? I have no idea what the answers to my questions should be, can anyone pipe in and clear this up for me? Ben Holmes Boulder, CO

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Sandy, I will not list your long post on why no rainbow in the Madison and is it/Isn’t it whirling disease…. just want to comment .. first of all their is an outstanding site on Whirling disease kept by the montana folks, which is easy to find with a search engine on "W… D… montana".   From this and following our local parasite problem … Piscacida (spelling???) something…. a dinoflagellant (again spelling???)…. seems they may both have some common elements… like nutrients, water flow and temperature AND the pest to make an impact…  Meaning some watersheds  without all of the other elements don’t necessarily kill fish… takes the whole package of things… might explain the logic… Anyway locally, we are Zeroing in on hog farms and chicken farms which at low water and high summer temps cause of a "bloom" and changes in the parasite and result in somewhat localized fish kills…  visit the WD site and read the stuff there…. truly first rate research …. for some good insight…. Alan E. Hoover       to quote one of my favorite authors: "Fly fishing is such great fun, it really ought to be done in bed"  John Voelker, aka Robert Traver

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It’s my understanding that trout can only be infected during the first six months of their life cycle and as long as they make it to a year they will survive even with deformities. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Silt is important in the parasites life cycle. The WD organism uses a tubifex worm as an intermediate host. It cycles between these worms and the trout. The tubifex worms are a small earthworm-like creature that occurs in silty bottoms of streams. Siltation has been identified as one major factor contributing to the incidence of whirling disease in an area. Cutthroat are susceptible. I think most salmonids are, except for coho salmon and slpake. The disease causes most damage when very young fish (newly hatched) are infected, so any species that has oyung present at the time the free-living, infective stage of the parasite is in the water is at risk. Damage decreases with  fish age since the parasite mostly destroys cartilage. Fish that are a few years old tend to be less damaged by the parasite. Eric was quick to say he thought whirling disease was a bad deal, that it undoubtedly played a significant part. But he (and others, increasingly) also pointed out that whirling disease seems to coincide with poor stream conditions: overly silted streambeds below damns or in badly cattle-tromped creeks, like lower Hound Creek and/or the Ruby. You may have something with the contributing factors involved with WD. It seems to follow here in CO, the areas I know of that are hardest hit by WD are silted areas. Maybe silt is needed in the parasites life cycle. Anyone know if there’s been any research on this? One of the stretches of the Colorado that has lost almost all of its rainbow s under sixteen inches has numerous silty areas. It was an extremely good rainbow fishery before WD.  The remaining rainbows have been spawning successfully but are dying when young. Browns have started to fill in the void. Does anyone know if Cutts are as susceptible to WD as rainbows?

– Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana http://www.montana.com/dno/dno.htm

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Silt is important in the parasites life cycle. The WD organism uses a tubifex worm as an intermediate host. It cycles between these worms and the trout. The tubifex worms are a small earthworm-like creature that occurs in silty bottoms of streams. Siltation has been identified as one major factor contributing to the incidence of whirling disease in an area. Cutthroat are susceptible. I think most salmonids are, except for coho salmon and slpake. The disease causes most damage when very young fish (newly hatched) are infected, so any species that has oyung present at the time the free-living, infective stage of the parasite is in the water is at risk. Damage decreases with  fish age since the parasite mostly destroys cartilage. Fish that are a few years old tend to be less damaged by the parasite. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Eric was quick to say he thought whirling disease was a bad deal, that it undoubtedly played a significant part. But he (and others, increasingly) also pointed out that whirling disease seems to coincide with poor stream conditions: overly silted streambeds below damns or in badly cattle-tromped creeks, like lower Hound Creek and/or the Ruby. You may have something with the contributing factors involved with WD. It seems to follow here in CO, the areas I know of that are hardest hit by WD are silted areas. Maybe silt is needed in the parasites life cycle. Anyone know if there’s been any research on this? One of the stretches of the Colorado that has lost almost all of its rainbow s under sixteen inches has numerous silty areas. It was an extremely good rainbow fishery before WD.  The remaining rainbows have been spawning successfully but are dying when young. Browns have started to fill in the void. Does anyone know if Cutts are as susceptible to WD as rainbows? Willi

– Tim Lysyk http://www.telusplanet.net/public/timlysyk http://www.telusplanet.net/public/cnangler/html

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A few years ago–when the news about whirling disease in Montana’s Madison river first broke–I remember getting in    He was angry at the Montana Fish and Game. He agreed that whirling disease existed in the river, and thought it played a role in the dramatic rainbow population decline. But he thought it was a minor role, and suspected that whirling disease may well have been present for years: even during the years of plenty. He attributed the dramatic decline to a major loss of spawing habitat in Slide Inn area, where shallow spawing runs had been whiped out in a high water year some 5-6 years back….and to too many fishermen trompling the few remaining spawing beds during the early season spawn. I was pissed off at him, because I liked (still do) Dick Vincent and his cohorts at the Fish and Game department. So we exchanged poison email for a while, and then we both took a powder. spent yesterday skiing with an old friend: Eric Shores, who has been guiding the madison forever (doesn’t seem like too long ago that Eric and Randy and George and George and Paul and a host of other guides were the young interlopers, and now we’re all 40-50 or more, and the old vets, it seems). Anyway, back to the main point. Eric said "yes, it’s true" the rainbow fishing is way off up the river. But says it’s as good or better than it ever was below Varney bridge. That section of the river has always been mostly browns anyway, but there were and are plenty of good rainbows too. ..that spawn in the channels above Ennis lake. And Eric pointed out how bad the Slide Inn area looks. I can’t deny it. What once was a series of dandy little side channels below Quake Lake has been a deep-fast flood channel for years. Even more interesting is the fact that whirling disease has been discovered in a dozen or more other locations across Montana–but without the dramatic drop in rainbow populations. Eric was quick to say he thought whirling disease was a bad deal, that it undoubtedly played a significant part. But he (and others, increasingly) also pointed out that whirling disease seems to coincide with poor stream conditions: overly silted streambeds below damns or in badly cattle-tromped creeks, like lower Hound Creek and/or the Ruby.   It’s also interesting to note that it’s hard to raise money in a cattle state for stream-bank habitat improvement projects, and a hell of a lot easier to raise (big) money for researching whirling disease. I still like and respect most of the people I know at Montana Fish and Game. But I don’t necessarily swallow their line. At least not completely. Not any more. I’d like to hear what others think, especially if they think they have something new to say about this subject. —  * Center for Computational Biology    * Montana State Bozeman  (406) 994-7061  * http://www.nervana.montana.edu/~sandy */

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 It is interesting that the flow data from MT. Power at Hebgen lake is missing for the years that the Slide area was scoured by flood like flows that changed the upper river. WD was  "discovered" shortly there after. The idea that the spawning beds where washed away is not new , just not put forth as much. I do think that the flooding had a tremendous effect that has been minimized .   Harry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -A few years ago–when the news about whirling disease in Montana’s Madison river first broke–I remember getting in   He was angry at the Montana Fish and Game. He agreed that whirling disease existed in the river, and thought it played a role in the dramatic rainbow population decline. But he thought it was a minor role, and suspected that whirling disease may well have been present for years: even during the years of plenty. He attributed the dramatic decline to a major loss of spawing habitat in Slide Inn area, where shallow spawing runs had been whiped out in a high water year some 5-6 years back….and to too many fishermen trompling the few remaining spawing beds during the early season spawn. I was pissed off at him, because I liked (still do) Dick Vincent and his cohorts at the Fish and Game department. So we exchanged poison email for a while, and then we both took a powder. spent yesterday skiing with an old friend: Eric Shores, who has been guiding the madison forever (doesn’t seem like too long ago that Eric and Randy and George and George and Paul and a host of other guides were the young interlopers, and now we’re all 40-50 or more, and the old vets, it seems). Anyway, back to the main point. Eric said "yes, it’s true" the rainbow fishing is way off up the river. But says it’s as good or better than it ever was below Varney bridge. That section of the river has always been mostly browns anyway, but there were and are plenty of good rainbows too. ..that spawn in the channels above Ennis lake. And Eric pointed out how bad the Slide Inn area looks. I can’t deny it. What once was a series of dandy little side channels below Quake Lake has been a deep-fast flood channel for years. Even more interesting is the fact that whirling disease has been discovered in a dozen or more other locations across Montana–but without the dramatic drop in rainbow populations. Eric was quick to say he thought whirling disease was a bad deal, that it undoubtedly played a significant part. But he (and others, increasingly) also pointed out that whirling disease seems to coincide with poor stream conditions: overly silted streambeds below damns or in badly cattle-tromped creeks, like lower Hound Creek and/or the Ruby.   It’s also interesting to note that it’s hard to raise money in a cattle state for stream-bank habitat improvement projects, and a hell of a lot easier to raise (big) money for researching whirling disease. I still like and respect most of the people I know at Montana Fish and Game. But I don’t necessarily swallow their line. At least not completely. Not any more. I’d like to hear what others think, especially if they think they have something new to say about this subject.

Response:

You may have something with the contributing factors involved with WD. It seems to follow here in CO, the areas I know of that are hardest hit by WD are silted areas. Maybe silt is needed in the parasites life cycle. Anyone know if there’s been any research on this? One of the stretches of the Colorado that has lost almost all of its rainbow s under sixteen inches has numerous silty areas. It was an extremely good rainbow fishery before WD.  The remaining rainbows have been spawning successfully but are dying when young. Browns have started to fill in the void. Does anyone know if Cutts are as susceptible to WD as rainbows?

Hi, The silt is the medium that supports the tubifex worms which carry the whirling disease spores.   Whenever you have whirling disease in a river you will find the biggest problem around areas with a lot of silt.  The tubifex worms carry the spores and live in the silt, the trout eat the worms, the spores infect the trout, the trout dies and spreads more of the spores, the worms feed on the decaying trout and the cycle starts all over again.  The spores do not become active until they are introduced into the trouts system.   The disease orignally came over from Europe with some infected brown trout.  It is a hatcery disease and is not naturally ocurring in the wild in the US, but is almost impossible to eliminate once it gains a foothold.  The sores can lie dormant for 30 years until they are ingested and are impervious to bleach and other cleansers which have been used in the hatchery races to try to eliminate them.  One report quoted a hatchery in Russia that was dried out for 30 years, then re-used and the fish all became infected. Montana was running a test program where they were trying to re-introduce the native cutthroat into the Madison river.  They have kept the native strain alive in a few hatcheries since in the wild both rainbows and brown trout out-compete them.  The idea was to identify some tributaries to the Madison with little or no siltation (and population of tubifex worms) and hopefully no evidence of WD.  They would plant the native Cuts in these tributaries. Cutthroat have exhibited the behavior of staying in their spawning tributaries for at least a year or two after hatching which may be the key to their survival.  Rainbows on the other hand return to the main stem much sooner after hatching.  WD attacks, deforms and kills young fish (older fish can survive an infestation) and the hope was that they would stay in the tribs long enough to escape the early infestation that can devestate rainbow populations.   By the time they return to the main stem which carries the disease, they are old enough to be able to survive it. Haven’t heard anything on this recently and lost the url of Montana’s fish and game site.  Would be worth doing a search on for more info, or perhaps someone on the ng has the url handy and will post it.                        Hope this helps,                                 Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

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Question:

                A Reminder of How Treacherous in Wading Can Be <snip Maybe this story of my carelessness and close call will make others more aware of the ever present possibiliy of a lethal surprise. And particularly aware of the prison of waterfilled waders. You can’t jump. or do much of anythimg.

Glad you survived to tell the story.  As for me, been there, done that!  Not in neoprene waders either – old heavy rubber ones with no belt.  And it was dark to boot.  Ah the thoughts you have. -Burton — 2330 NW Hummingbird Corvallis, OR

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                A Reminder of How Treacherous in Wading Can Be <snip Maybe this story of my carelessness and close call will make others more aware of the ever present possibiliy of a lethal surprise. And particularly aware of the prison of waterfilled waders. You can’t jump. or do much of anythimg.

Glad you survived to tell the story.  As for me, been there, done that!  Not in neoprene waders either – old heavy rubber ones with no belt.  And it was dark to boot.  Ah the thought you have. -Burton — 2330 NW Hummingbird Corvallis, OR

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                A Reminder of How Treacherous in Wading Can Be I was wading  alone in knee deep water in upper  Lake Taneycomo (the White River), Missouri last Saturday fly fishing for Rainbow.. The third one I caught seemed to large to get in without a net, so I was nursing it to shore. When I got within about ten feet of the shoreline I quit looking down, and that’s the last thing I remember real clearly. I was immdeiately gulpimg water, ,couldnt see, and couldn’t get my head above water by thrashing and dog paddling. I  must have thrashed for a minute or so, because I got to where I thought I’,ve got to give up because I can’t hold my breath any longer. Then I realized if I took a breath it would be my last. I had no idea of my location or orientation by the, so  I quit movng, descended to the bottom and kicked/crawled in whatevr direction I was pointed. The ground seemed to be rising in front of me, so I gave another  lunge or two, stood up and gasped for air.all at once. I got more air than wter, and after a bounce or two had mu head above water.          I got a few more feet and cokllapsed in shallow water, breathing very rapidly and shallow. I still wasn’t sure I was out of trouble, but in 15- 10 minutes my breathing was about normal. I had to walk 1/4 mile to get my gear ang go home (still no one around.) I couldn’t walk on the shore because my boots were nearly full of watr, and I couldn’w walk without them. So I waded back, collapsed again down there for 1/2 hour, then slowly got up the hill and home. While wading back I found my fly rod floating, with the trout still attached         When I got hom my blood pressure  was 180/120. But 24 hours later my only ailments were a bitten tongue, some coughimg and general soreness.         I had on chest waders and a belt, but no flotation equipment. I’m not a swimmer, but have always been able to stay afloat in a pool. I think the wader probably made the difference betwen getting out and not, because my waders only half filled with water.belt.         I recovered quickly, got a fishing vest/life jacket and went back the next day to checkout the hole I stepped in. It is in Lake Taneycomo, about three hundred  yards east of the 21 mile marker (for any local fisherman), and on the downstream side of a very large tree stump. It apperas to be about eight feet deep at the very lowest lake level (701ft) , and roughly 8X8 square, with pretty abropt entry stepoff. Maybe this story of my carelessness and close call will make others more aware of the ever present possibiliy of a lethal surprise. And particularly aware of the prison of waterfilled waders. You can’t jump. or do much of anythimg.

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Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snippety snippety snip Oooooo. Freezer. Nice and cool like home-world. 8 I’ll go halves on a cold store with you, Arthur. I cannot *abide* hot weather and the damper it is, the more hateful I find it. I think I was meant to have been born a polar bear. — Gary Cooper Gary: Want to trade houses,were expecting ten inches,yes I said inches snow for this year…..Looking for my scoop,Moose.

Well Moose, Flowers galore here!    It is a bit like little ole England…..without the population and pollution…I guess that’s why it’s called "Victoria".   Alot of British subjects like to retire here….so do Chinese,  Japanese,  and lots of seniors.  I imagine that as the place gets better known there might be a population problem.  It is known as the "city of gardens".   You’d love it Gary. By the way….consider yourself HIRED!!! Annie( sitting up in recliner….like …WOW…still hurting….this rain is making my bones ache!)

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: Of course, now I live in beautiful Victoria, B.C. on Vancouver Island. I’m having a major jealousy fit right now.  Sigh. Have they hung the flowers on the street lights yet? Myra

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: But Vancouver Island sounds lovely – a little like England without : the sense of over-crowding and pollution, perhaps? Like England, if England had really nice summer weather. If you love gardens, you would be utterly enchanted by Butchart Gardens in Victoria.  Exquisite. Here’s a vaguely humorous story:  The last time I was in Victoria, I was on a plane back to Seattle (a 20-minute international flight).  Now, I HATE flying, so I was sitting there (next to the window — ARGH), trembling, hyperventilating, grabbing the armrests and generally scaring the hell out of everyone on the plane. The gentleman sitting next to me finally asked, "If flying frightens you so much, why didn’t you take the ferry back?" to which I replied, "If I didn’t fly, I’d miss my train home!" Myra

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And what a polar bear you’d make!!  I also hate hot, humid weather..I was born and raised (if you could call it that) in Toronto.  It’s an absolute swamp pit in the summer.  I’d hide out in the dark and cool basement all day just to survive. Thank you for the compliment, Annie! I think I’d enjoy an ursine incarnation next time round – that’s assuming the gods won’t let me have my first choice, which would be a Siberian tiger. Toronto sounds … ghastly.

It is!!  Well, climate wise anyway.  Makes me feel anxious just remembering it in August.  Phew!! Of course, now I live in beautiful Victoria, B.C. on Vancouver Island. If you don’t like the weather you just wait five minutes……I remember that in one day we got sun, rain, hail, wind, and then it finally settled into a calm freezing rain.  This spring has been WET. But Vancouver Island sounds lovely – a little like England without the sense of over-crowding and pollution, perhaps?

It’s heavenly, isn’t it Annie?  But keep it a secret, we don’t want everyone to know!  <g Is it just me or does anyone else notice how harsh the sun has gotten in the past few years…..I can barely stand to be out in it.  Must be the ozone layer thing. Really? I scuttle out of the sunshine as fast as possible once we’re past April. I really do find that bright sunlight exacerbates my anxiety. I am *far* happier on vaguely overcast days. As to whether the sun is harsher these days, I just wouldn’t know. But it doesn’t seem more able to scorch plants, does it?

I hate the heat and that bright, glaring sun.  It’s ok if you’re out in the forest, or sitting on a river bank in the shade fishing.  Otherwise, turn the ol’ air-conditioner up to 9 and chill out! Looks like when summer arrives we may be in for a drought.  Guess I’ll just have to hand water those 50 million plants I’ll have outside by then.  Anyone need a job?? Consider the job applied for! I can think of few jobs I get more satisfaction out of than feeding and watering plants. It’s one of my very favourite occupations.

Very tranquil business that.  The first greenhouses we had had to be all hand watered.  I’d go into a sort of meditative trance, humming to the plants. Computerized irrigation systems are wonderful when you’ve got 12,000 poinsettias to feed and water – but it’s just not the same.  <g Mally  :) — Gary Cooper

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : Of course, now I live in beautiful Victoria, B.C. on Vancouver Island. I’m having a major jealousy fit right now.  Sigh. Have they hung the flowers on the street lights yet? Myra Sorry Myra……didn’t mean to make you jealous….I wanted to make Moose jealous and he probably didn’t even read this ( he lives in Ontario where it is presently snowing ).  As for the flower baskets….I couldn’t tell you because I’m still stuck at home with my back out ( and hating every minute )  but I assume that if they are not already up they will be soon.  I assume you have been here before. Hope it warms up wherever you are Myra. warm thoughts….. Annie ( still transplanting seedlings and wondering where I am going to put them all )

Annie:I did read the post and I am jealous,but the snow is melting again in the sunshine that followed, and all will be well in another month or so,just in time for FALL.One good point is that when I get truck loads of Ben&Jerrys I can store it outside.It"s funny that my two favourite provinces are the furthest from me,BC and Nova Scotia[Cape Breton]Hey I think I just saw a mosquito.                                        Keep the Faith Moose. PS.I love your posts.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : Of course, now I live in beautiful Victoria, B.C. on Vancouver Island. I’m having a major jealousy fit right now.  Sigh. Have they hung the flowers on the street lights yet? Myra Sorry Myra……didn’t mean to make you jealous….I wanted to make Moose jealous and he probably didn’t even read this ( he lives in Ontario where it is presently snowing ).  As for the flower baskets….I couldn’t tell you because I’m still stuck at home with my back out ( and hating every minute )  but I assume that if they are not already up they will be soon.  I assume you have been here before. Hope it warms up wherever you are Myra. warm thoughts….. Annie ( still transplanting seedlings and wondering where I am going to put them all ) Annie:I did read the post and I am jealous,but the snow is melting again in the sunshine that followed, and all will be well in another month or so,just in time for FALL.One good point is that when I get truck loads of Ben&Jerrys I can store it outside.It"s funny that my two favourite provinces are the furthest from me,BC and Nova Scotia[Cape Breton]Hey I think I just saw a mosquito.                                       Keep the Faith Moose. PS.I love your posts.

I’m glad you said that…I been having a bit of a crisis lately (what else is new) but it is nice to hear from a fellow Ontarian even if I did abandone the place.  Glad the snow is melting there.  I also love Nova Scotia…..has a completely different feel to it than the west coast.  There is this fantastically old graveyard in Halifax that looks like something out of a Frankenstein movie….especially with that lovely fog rolling in at night….ever seen it? Take care, Annie ( STILL transplanting…..AND sitting up almost straight )

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Gary: Want to trade houses,were expecting ten inches,yes I said inches snow for this year…..Looking for my scoop,Moose. Lived there too Moose, waaaay back when it was still Port Arthur and Fort William!  Remember clearing the snow off the picnic tables at the lake so we could have a picnic in April! <shudder  Then as soon as the snow went, in came the black fly and mosquitoes!  Fabulous fishing country though.  Caught my first 5 pounder there and got chased away from it by a bear.  <g  You’d better move out here to La La Land….it’s wet, but the flowers are blooming, the grass is green and the trees are leafing out. Mally  :)

Im in the process of finding my BBQ with a metal detector right now,maybe Rob will send me some of those steaks that are on sale in GB.Ever heard of Mad Moose disease.                                                  Later Moose.

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: Now, now Myra.. you wouldn’t have said that if you had been : here *last* Summer. It was like Arizona. By my standards that : means Hell of Earth… but some people liked it. I’ve been in Arizona in the summer — eeeeeyyyyeeeeewwww!  (Apologies to Arizonans — but Tucson in July is simply unbearable.)  England in the midst of a heat wave would be "Hell on Earth," if there’s a lack of air conditioning.  That was one of my beefs about living near the beach here in So.Cal. — as long as the temperature didn’t go above 70, everything was great, but any higher and I melted because there were no air conditioners anywhere. I grew up in the San Fernando Valley, where August/September temperatures soar as high as 110, but as we say (cynically), it’s a DRY heat.  <g Victoria in high summer is heavenly, with the temperatures in the 70s (or 20s for my Fahrenheit-impaired Canadian friends), soothing breezes and the smell of flowers everywhere.   : If you love gardens, you would be utterly enchanted by Butchart Gardens : in Victoria.  Exquisite. : It sounds wonderful. These gardens are magnificant.  I’ve never seen anything like them.  I think the best time to go is in the early evening so you can see everything in the daylight and then lit up like a fairyland after dusk. Re my Victoria-Seattle flight: : ROFLMAO! The contortions we PD types go through! True!  The next time I flew, which was about 7 years later, was another short hop from L.A. to Las Vegas.  At one point, I turned to my mother (who just loves to fly — don’t you hate people like that!) and quietly poo-poohed me, but then the captain announced that we were landing, and I WAS THE ONLY PERSON WHO FELT IT. Nothing like a panic attack to heighten the old senses.  <g Myra P.S.  One of my favorite humor writers is James Lileks, who also happens to have PD.  He wrote an hysterical book of essays called "White Knuckles," and the title piece is about flying.  He calls airplanes "thin metal cylinders of death."  Hee hee.

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: I assume you have been here before. Oh yes.  I think Victoria is one of the most beautiful cities I’ve ever visited. : Hope it warms up wherever you are Myra. Since I live in Southern California, maybe you could wish me a cool spell?  <g  It’s going to be about 100 degrees in the Valley tomorrow. : Annie ( still transplanting seedlings and wondering where I am going : to put them all ) Myra (contemplating which plants she plans to kill *this* year)

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<mercilessly pruned without thought to future seasons Very tranquil business that.  The first greenhouses we had had to be all hand watered.  I’d go into a sort of meditative trance, humming to the plants. Computerized irrigation systems are wonderful when you’ve got 12,000  poinsettias to feed and water – but it’s just not the same.  <g

Aha! We’ve *got* you now! So it was *you* who was responsible for the poinsettia for Christmas scam!!!! I might have known! — Gary Cooper

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: Of course, now I live in beautiful Victoria, B.C. on Vancouver Island. I’m having a major jealousy fit right now.  Sigh. Have they hung the flowers on the street lights yet? Myra

Sorry Myra……didn’t mean to make you jealous….I wanted to make Moose jealous and he probably didn’t even read this ( he lives in Ontario where it is presently snowing ).  As for the flower baskets….I couldn’t tell you because I’m still stuck at home with my back out ( and hating every minute )  but I assume that if they are not already up they will be soon.  I assume you have been here before. Hope it warms up wherever you are Myra. warm thoughts….. Annie ( still transplanting seedlings and wondering where I am going to put them all )

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Gary: Want to trade houses,were expecting ten inches,yes I said inches snow for this year…..Looking for my scoop,Moose.

Lived there too Moose, waaaay back when it was still Port Arthur and Fort William!  Remember clearing the snow off the picnic tables at the lake so we could have a picnic in April! <shudder  Then as soon as the snow went, in came the black fly and mosquitoes!  Fabulous fishing country though.  Caught my first 5 pounder there and got chased away from it by a bear.  <g  You’d better move out here to La La Land….it’s wet, but the flowers are blooming, the grass is green and the trees are leafing out. Mally  :)

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Flowers galore here!    It is a bit like little ole England…..without the population and pollution…I guess that’s why it’s called "Victoria".   Alot of British subjects like to retire here….so do Chinese,  Japanese,  and lots of seniors.  I imagine that as the place gets better known there might be a population problem.  It is known as the "city of gardens".   You’d love it Gary. By the way….consider yourself HIRED!!!

Wonderful! I shall start packing immediately. Ummmm… I don’t s’pose you happen to know a quick cure for agoraphobia, do you? — Gary Cooper

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: the sense of over-crowding and pollution, perhaps? Like England, if England had really nice summer weather.

Now, now Myra.. you wouldn’t have said that if you had been here *last* Summer. It was like Arizona. By my standards that means Hell of Earth… but some people liked it. If you love gardens, you would be utterly enchanted by Butchart Gardens in Victoria.  Exquisite.

It sounds wonderful. Here’s a vaguely humorous story:  The last time I was in Victoria, I was on a plane back to Seattle (a 20-minute international flight).  Now, I HATE flying, so I was sitting there (next to the window — ARGH), trembling, hyperventilating, grabbing the armrests and generally scaring the hell out of everyone on the plane. The gentleman sitting next to me finally asked, "If flying frightens you so much, why didn’t you take the ferry back?" to which I replied, "If I didn’t fly, I’d miss my train home!"

ROFLMAO! The contortions we PD types go through! — Gary Cooper

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writes: I bet I was jinxed by some recent postings from those mentally twisted sun-lovers, those evil sun-tanned folk that soak up those UV-rays in a dastardly attempt to mutate into silicon skinned humaniods. This weather is all their fault, I just know it! Its their revenge for that wonderful blizzard this winter.

OK Grumpy!  I’m one of those evil sun-worshipers!  I get depressed when its dark and gloomy outside.  Cheer up and turn the air-con on!  I can relate to the heat though.  I cant tolerate heat at all anymore.  If I do try and get a tan its at short intervals.  The hot dry heat here in NM is stiffling (sp?) and I hate those over 100 degrees days!  And cutting the grass in the summer takes me all day because I have to go inside to the cool air so often due to getting overheated.  So, I know where your coming from grumpy! <g  Cheer up.  :) or I am going to put you back in the space alien freezer! Cyndie

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Arthur, CHILL Thomas

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: OK Grumpy!  I’m one of those evil sun-worshipers!  I get depressed when : its dark and gloomy outside.  Cheer up and turn the air-con on! But I can’t go jogging indoors! At least I can’t unless I spend some rediculous amount of money on one of those club memberships. Just give me a nice shady pool to swim in. : I can : relate to the heat though.  I cant tolerate heat at all anymore.  If I do : try and get a tan its at short intervals.  The hot dry heat here in NM is : stiffling (sp?) and I hate those over 100 degrees days! Yeah, but its a dry heat. We get primordial swamp summers here on the east coast. : Cheer up.  :) or I am going to put you back in the space alien freezer! Oooooo. Freezer. Nice and cool like home-world. 8                                                 Best Wishes,                                                 Arthur

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Yikes! Its 80+ degress F. out here and the sun is strong. I don’t like this. I am hot and sweaty already and the summer hasn’t even begun yet. The weather was fine yesterday, 70+ degrees, cloudy, comfortable. Now its hot and I am pissed, creeping about in the shadows in a futile effort to avoid that burning sunlight. <snipped

Arthur, I am in complete agreement about hot weather.  Unfortunately, I made the mistake of moving to Maryland from New York state about three years ago (for education reasons but now I’m stuck here).  I’ve had many a friend ask me, "Don’t you feel better now that the sun and warm weather are here?"   My answer is a definite "NO!!!!!!"  While I do enjoy the warm breezes of early spring, these hot temperatures (80 degrees and above) and humidity destroy every last bit of my already-crumbling motivation.  Sadly enough, Maryland seems to have two seasons: a sadistic version of summer and a pathetic version of winter.  Everyone here claims that I will get used to it.  My fourth summer here is fast approaching, and I am not used to it. In terms of panic and anxiety, the heat definitely makes them worse.  As someone else mentioned, it’s easy enough to put on a sweater when cold, but staying cool is much more difficult.  I feel horrible when I’m hot.  In fact, most of my PA’s cause me to feel hot.  On top of that, I’m very sensitive to the sun (not too much of a problem right now with my housebound status) which makes my head ache and my skin burn. Finally is the problem of air conditioning.  My apartment does not have it, but it’s really necessary here.  Last summer I borrowed an air conditioner for a few weeks and will probably do the same this summer, especially since I’ll be spending most, if not all, of it indoors.  The problem is that I really don’t like air conditioning at all.  I love having the windows open. But when we start hitting 90 degrees here, I just won’t be able to handle it. Oh, and I agree, Arthur, that this is revenge for those glorious snowstorms this winter, particularly the blizzard.  As I sat here this winter, looking out at the ineptly plowed street, my heart filled with terror as I imagined the summer to come.  *Sigh* Well, now, I think I’ve whined sufficiently.  I suppose everyone should be prepared for future complaints from us heat-sensitive panic sufferers.  The worst is yet to come, I’m afraid.  *Sigh* again. Cathleen

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<snippety snippety snip Oooooo. Freezer. Nice and cool like home-world. 8 I’ll go halves on a cold store with you, Arthur. I cannot *abide* hot weather and the damper it is, the more hateful I find it. I think I was meant to have been born a polar bear. — Gary Cooper

Gary: Want to trade houses,were expecting ten inches,yes I said inches snow for this year…..Looking for my scoop,Moose.

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And what a polar bear you’d make!!  I also hate hot, humid weather..I was born and raised (if you could call it that) in Toronto.  It’s an absolute swamp pit in the summer.  I’d hide out in the dark and cool basement all day just to survive.

Thank you for the compliment, Annie! I think I’d enjoy an ursine incarnation next time round – that’s assuming the gods won’t let me have my first choice, which would be a Siberian tiger. Toronto sounds … ghastly. Of course, now I live in beautiful Victoria, B.C. on Vancouver Island. If you don’t like the weather you just wait five minutes……I remember that in one day we got sun, rain, hail, wind, and then it finally settled into a calm freezing rain.  This spring has been WET.

But Vancouver Island sounds lovely – a little like England without the sense of over-crowding and pollution, perhaps? Is it just me or does anyone else notice how harsh the sun has gotten in the past few years…..I can barely stand to be out in it.  Must be the ozone layer thing.

Really? I scuttle out of the sunshine as fast as possible once we’re past April. I really do find that bright sunlight exacerbates my anxiety. I am *far* happier on vaguely overcast days. As to whether the sun is harsher these days, I just wouldn’t know. But it doesn’t seem more able to scorch plants, does it? Looks like when summer arrives we may be in for a drought.  Guess I’ll just have to hand water those 50 million plants I’ll have outside by then.  Anyone need a job??

Consider the job applied for! I can think of few jobs I get more satisfaction out of than feeding and watering plants. It’s one of my very favourite occupations. — Gary Cooper

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snippety snippety snip Oooooo. Freezer. Nice and cool like home-world. 8 I’ll go halves on a cold store with you, Arthur. I cannot *abide* hot weather and the damper it is, the more hateful I find it. I think I was meant to have been born a polar bear. — Gary Cooper

And what a polar bear you’d make!!  I also hate hot, humid weather..I was born and raised (if you could call it that) in Toronto.  It’s an absolute swamp pit in the summer.  I’d hide out in the dark and cool basement all day just to survive. Of course, now I live in beautiful Victoria, B.C. on Vancouver Island. If you don’t like the weather you just wait five minutes……I remember that in one day we got sun, rain, hail, wind, and then it finally settled into a calm freezing rain.  This spring has been WET. Is it just me or does anyone else notice how harsh the sun has gotten in the past few years…..I can barely stand to be out in it.  Must be the ozone layer thing. Looks like when summer arrives we may be in for a drought.  Guess I’ll just have to hand water those 50 million plants I’ll have outside by then.  Anyone need a job?? Annie (and plants, in recliner, restocked with ice cream,)

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<snippety snippety snip Oooooo. Freezer. Nice and cool like home-world. 8

I’ll go halves on a cold store with you, Arthur. I cannot *abide* hot weather and the damper it is, the more hateful I find it. I think I was meant to have been born a polar bear. — Gary Cooper

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: Arthur, : : CHILL : : Thomas I be cool.                                         Best Wishes,                                         Arthur

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: I’ll go halves on a cold store with you, Arthur. I cannot : *abide* hot weather and the damper it is, the more hateful : I find it. : : I think I was meant to have been born a polar bear. Well, maybe not a polar bear; they’re working for the CokeCola Company these days; you know, that monolithic corporate entity that Peter Sellers almost had to answer to in the Kubrick film Dr. Strangelove. Talk about hot days!                                         Best Wishes,                                         Arthur

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Yikes! Its 80+ degress F. out here and the sun is strong. I don’t like this. I am hot and sweaty already and the summer hasn’t even begun yet. The weather was fine yesterday, 70+ degrees, cloudy, comfortable. Now its hot and I am pissed, creeping about in the shadows in a futile effort to avoid that burning sunlight. I bet I was jinxed by some recent postings from those mentally twisted sun-lovers, those evil sun-tanned folk that soak up those UV-rays in a dastardly attempt to mutate into silicon skinned humaniods. This weather is all their fault, I just know it! Its their revenge for that wonderful blizzard this winter. And don’t start up with that subjectivist crap! Its not subjective! Hating hot weather and excessive sunlight is the normal state of a healthy mind. Just look at human history. We were quite content living in the Ice Age with lots of big fuzzy mammals. But NOOOOOOOOOO, Mother Nature had to change the climate. We then spent the next few thousand years reaching deeper and deeper into the polar regions to get away from the heat. Now even that isn’t good enough considering Ozone depletion. This is a cosmic conspiracy I tell you! In case you can’t tell, this heat really antagonizes my PD. It makes me panic like a lobster in boiling water. Like a bagel in toaster. Like a gremlin in a microwave. We should just cancel summer and go straight into fall. Hey God, where’s your complaint box? Or maybe I should sacrafice a bottle of sunblock to Ra or something? Who’s got the global thermostat? And if you think I’m upset now, just wait till our first heat-wave!                                         Best Wishes, (grumpily)                                         Arthur

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Question:

Hi….     I would like some advice on HOW to fish for Steelhead on a fly!! I have been swinging green and red butted skunks in the South Santiam River for two years now, without a take on the fly. I  fish the tailouts and ripples for hours. I have spent my thirty hours on the water, I WANT MY FISH! (Smile)      What do I need to buy or learn about these fish that would make me one of the %10 of the people who catch %90 of the Steelhead. At the present time: I am using light 7 weight, 8 1/2 foot long with floating line and a 9 foot leader. I use a couple of split shot about a foot from the fly to get it to sink. I don’t weight my Steelhead flys… I was told not to by a local flyshop operator, "DEFINITELY DO NOT PUT LEAD ON YOUR FLYS."        Do I need to buy some kinda of sinking line, something like a Deep Water Express to go deeper for Steelhead. I fish for them below the serface during the summer months. *This is what I have read: fish for Steelhead right below the surface during the summer months because the fishes matabolism speeds up due to the warmth of the water and the need to spawn. Also, do Steelhead stay near the bottom of the river most all of the time they are traveling up the river? I see an occasional steelie jump out of the water, but as spectacular as this events is, it is but brief pause to my clinching teeth and despondantly cursing these fish out of my frustration. Heck, I used every fowl word in the English language, so I took up speaking Spanish so that I could curse these fish in another language. (Smile)     In the spirit of flyfishing, if you live in Oregon and understand how to fish for steelhead, then please respond to this message. Even if you don’t…any advice would be nice. If you are fishing for these fish near or around the Eugene, Oregon or Salem, Oregon area, and wouldn’t mind giving a beginner some advice on the river, then let me know and I will bring the beer and lunch. *Sorry, I am a poor college student and can’t afford a guide, even though I would love to charter a guide for a day.*      Thanks…          Joey Hurt  

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    In the spirit of flyfishing, if you live in Oregon and understand   how to fish for steelhead, then please respond to this message. Even if   you don’t…any advice would be nice. If you are fishing for these fish   near or around the Eugene, Oregon or Salem, Oregon area, and wouldn’t   mind giving a beginner some advice on the river, then let me know and I   will bring the beer and lunch. *Sorry, I am a poor college student and   can’t afford a guide, even though I would love to charter a guide for a   day.*       Thanks…           Joey Hurt  

Joey,     No, you don’t need a sinking line.  Actually, you don’t even need a subsurface fly, particularly on fresh fish.  I am a little curious about the S. Santiam as your river of choice.  Any particular reason you picked it over the N. Santiam, the Umpqua the Deschutes or others?  Fishing for steelhead is something of an act of faith these days.  There were somewhat less than 500 wild fish over Sherars Falls on the Deschutes last year.  In the mid 80s, we had just under 10,000. Sounds like you are going about it in the right way, though it is difficult to tell if your are maximizing your chances by picking prime time (of day and year) for the water you are fishing.  You might consider hooking up with a club, the Santiam Flycasters in Salem.  You can access them through Keith Burkhart at the Valley Flyfisher on Alice St. in Salem.                                             Mike in PDX                "When the trout are lost, smash the state."                                            Tom McGuane

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Joey, Check out The Anadramous Page on the web.  If you can’t find it, let me know and I’ll send you the URL. Mike

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all i really know about steelhead is that you dont carch them they catch you.  im a student at osu and live in corvallis year round.  i am new to the game but would be more than happy to double team those bastard fish.   by the way have you tried the fork below jefferson wheere the north and south meet. -craig

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