Question:

You guys in Baja Oklahoma should know the difference between Sooners and Okies.   I can steer you to a few bars in Sooner land where calling people Okies won’t make you any friends. The original joke is about the wind in NoDak and it’s "Montana blows and Minnesota sucks".   Is "Pride in Ignorance" still the state moto of Texas. Can blame you for living in Oklahoma though. General Sherman was a smart feller, his only mistake was not burning enough of Georgia.

Response:

BJC wrote… The original joke is about the wind in NoDak and it’s "Montana blows and Minnesota sucks".

Hey now, you are one going by "BJC" <bseg — Warren Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt

Response:

Big problem in Oklahoma as so many people migrate to Texas. Net effect is to increase the average IQ for both states. — Citizen Fisherman

Response:

Sorry guy, just lashing out in pain.  To watch Nebraska go from #2 to #9 in the polls after being really beaten by any Florida based team (though I believe their parole officers are mostly out of state) just really hurts.  Don’t think Solich is gonna get to be a congressman if he keeps this up.         Frank – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Damn, Frank. That almost hurts. -Jeff, we call it basketball season

Response:

There is plenty of income tax in Kansas -Jeff

Um, I’m not sure of your point, other than perhaps agreeing in pain… TC, R but note – – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In fact, many maintain Texas residences and businesses domiciled in Texas as there is no state income tax as in OK and KS.

Response:

Can’t stand any Florida teams either. It’s like I told my Husker fan sister last night, those Miami guys are just too fast and better compensated.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sorry guy, just lashing out in pain.  To watch Nebraska go from #2 to #9 in the polls after being really beaten by any Florida based team (though I believe their parole officers are mostly out of state) just really hurts.  Don’t think Solich is gonna get to be a congressman if he keeps this up.         Frank Damn, Frank. That almost hurts. -Jeff, we call it basketball season

Response:

If your going to steal a quote at least cite the source and get it right. It was Will Rogers and he said the  Okies raised the IQ of both California and Oklahoma

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Big problem in Oklahoma as so many people migrate to Texas. Net effect is to increase the average IQ for both states. — Citizen Fisherman

Response:

Them’s fightin’ words.  Go Huskers (and getting your red asses royally beat as we speak).     Three football fans were coming out of a party when they noticed a naked and very, very drunk woman passed out on her back on the front lawn of the local watering hole.  They covered her as best as they could with their hats and called the police.     The police officer took their statements and then, one by one, lifted the hats off the lady and identified the owners.  He took the Nebraska hat off of the left breast, I.D’ed the owner, and recovered the young lady, the Okie hat came off the right breast, ID’ed the owner and recovered the lady’s nakidity.  The officer then lifted the Kansas hat off of the ladies crotch, recovered it, lifted it again, recovered and then checked one more time.     The Kansas fan, slightly perturbed by the whole goings on asked if the policeman was some kind of prevert.  The policeofficer replied, "no, its just that most of the time, under a Kansas hat, I usually find and asshole." Frank Reid – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  In Kansas it was windy because "okies blow"… …and Nebraska sucks -Jeff, alive and freezing in the Sunflower State

Response:

Damn, Frank. That almost hurts. -Jeff, we call it basketball season

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Them’s fightin’ words.  Go Huskers (and getting your red asses royally beat as we speak).     Three football fans were coming out of a party when they noticed a naked and very, very drunk woman passed out on her back on the front lawn of the local watering hole.  They covered her as best as they could with their hats and called the police.     The police officer took their statements and then, one by one, lifted the hats off the lady and identified the owners.  He took the Nebraska hat off of the left breast, I.D’ed the owner, and recovered the young lady, the Okie hat came off the right breast, ID’ed the owner and recovered the lady’s nakidity.  The officer then lifted the Kansas hat off of the ladies crotch, recovered it, lifted it again, recovered and then checked one more time.     The Kansas fan, slightly perturbed by the whole goings on asked if the policeman was some kind of prevert.  The policeofficer replied, "no, its just that most of the time, under a Kansas hat, I usually find and asshole." Frank Reid  In Kansas it was windy because "okies blow"… …and Nebraska sucks -Jeff, alive and freezing in the Sunflower State

Response:

WOW Collier, taking time off from your self-penetration to home in on any mention of eBay? Oh, and have an OK day.  Should be a good year for you with the IRS considering your 2001 losses.  Then again, they may just be on their way with an endoscope considering your unreported and ill-gotten ebay income! — Wayne To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

Response:

Post it.  If it’s a fly fishing book it fits in as well as a Wine Review,  A football pool,  Muskies politics and pictures that show what General Sherman meant when he said " If I owned hell and Texas I’d live in hell and rent Texas out"

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have never used a newsgroup before — I’m wondering if it would be acceptable to the users if I were to post an announcement here that I’m placing a rare flyfishing book for sale on eBay? Thanks in advance for any guidance. Ron Reinhold — Ron Reinhold R.W. Reinhold Co. 4446 Westridge Dr Williamsburg, Michigan 49690 Ph# 231-938-3229  Fax# 231-938-1896

Response:

Post it.  If it’s a fly fishing book it fits in as well as a Wine Review,  A football pool,  Muskies politics and pictures that show what General Sherman meant when he said " If I owned hell and Texas I’d live in hell and rent Texas out"

Er, except that most of the pics of "Texas" are of Oklahoma…well, I’m sure you know the old saw: "Why is Texas so windy?  Oakies suck pretty hard…."

Response:

I’m sure you know the old saw: "Why is Texas so windy?  Oakies suck pretty hard…."

In Kansas it was windy because "okies blow"… — Charlie…

Response:

I’m sure you know the old saw: "Why is Texas so windy?  Oakies suck pretty hard…." In Kansas it was windy because "okies blow"…

I was talking about their mouths…. TC, R Actually, to be fair, in the area under discussion, without the "State Line" signs on the major north-south highway, you really can’t tell Texas from Oklahoma (which is only one county, about 30 miles, across from north to south, in this area) from So. Kansas (Liberal, KS, about 40 miles from Perryton, TX, is the nearest "big city") and in fact, some operations are in two states.  In fact, many maintain Texas residences and businesses domiciled in Texas as there is no state income tax as in OK and KS.

Response:

"Charlie Choc" wrote  In Kansas it was windy because "okies blow"… …and Nebraska sucks -Jeff, alive and freezing in the Sunflower State

Response:

There is plenty of income tax in Kansas -Jeff

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m sure you know the old saw: "Why is Texas so windy?  Oakies suck pretty hard…." In Kansas it was windy because "okies blow"… I was talking about their mouths…. TC, R Actually, to be fair, in the area under discussion, without the "State Line" signs on the major north-south highway, you really can’t tell Texas from Oklahoma (which is only one county, about 30 miles, across from north to south, in this area) from So. Kansas (Liberal, KS, about 40 miles from Perryton, TX, is the nearest "big city") and in fact, some operations are in two states.  In fact, many maintain Texas residences and businesses domiciled in Texas as there is no state income tax as in OK and KS.

Response:

Ok, now I’m curious…what’s the damn book? Eugene

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve told you a million times not to exaggerate. — Citizen Fisherman …those were top quality table saws…grumble…grumble… OTOH, If you have to sell this book to get your wife a new drill press because you ordered too many shitty grey-market Korean table saws from some "friend" whose name escapes you and then wish to sell a first edition of the Bible, autographed by Jesus, Mary, and Joseph, for a gal who works in your office who has no idea of it’s value, watch out… Sheesh, it’s like using a friggin’ dog whistle…

Response:

So am I.  Tell me more about the autographed bible and the expected price.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ok, now I’m curious…what’s the damn book? Eugene I’ve told you a million times not to exaggerate. — Citizen Fisherman …those were top quality table saws…grumble…grumble… OTOH, If you have to sell this book to get your wife a new drill press because you ordered too many shitty grey-market Korean table saws from some "friend" whose name escapes you and then wish to sell a first edition of the Bible, autographed by Jesus, Mary, and Joseph, for a gal who works in your office who has no idea of it’s value, watch out… Sheesh, it’s like using a friggin’ dog whistle…

Response:

Like I said, Ken was exaggerating, as he is prone to do. The Bible is *not* autographed, but it is the original, handwritten version. Price is negotiable, depending on how many you order at one time… Any remaining stock will be auctioned on eBay. — Citizen Fisherman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So am I.  Tell me more about the autographed bible and the expected price

Response:

Friendly and predictable, that’s me… — Citizen Fisherman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sheesh, it’s like using a friggin’ dog whistle…

Response:

I have never used a newsgroup before — I’m wondering if it would be acceptable to the users if I were to post an announcement here that I’m placing a rare flyfishing book for sale on eBay? Thanks in advance for any guidance.

Well, it would be acceptable, but only after it is cleared by the protocol committee.  If you’ll send me the details on the book, I’ll be happy to forward it on to them…. Seriously, though, generally speaking, the only place a "For Sale" post is _strictly_ appropriate is in a ".forsale" newsgroup or other such newsgroup that specifically allows "for sale" postings.  But ROFF’s charter is, at best, more observed by the ignoring of same. What this means is: "who knows what reaction a particular post might garner?"  If your post is simple, honest posting pointing to a personal sale of a book or books, I’d say post away and ignore any flames.   One thing on pointing to auctions, whether here or another newsgroup, starting the subject line with a "FA:" is considered proper as "FS:" means that it is "for sale," not "for auction."  Also, indicate your location. OTOH, If you have to sell this book to get your wife a new drill press because you ordered too many shitty grey-market Korean table saws from some "friend" whose name escapes you and then wish to sell a first edition of the Bible, autographed by Jesus, Mary, and Joseph, for a gal who works in your office who has no idea of it’s value, watch out… HTH, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Ron Reinhold

Response:

I have never used a newsgroup before — I’m wondering if it would be acceptable to the users if I were to post an announcement here that I’m placing a rare flyfishing book for sale on eBay? Thanks in advance for any guidance.

Well, regulars often post when they’re selling something on eBay, but if you do it out of the blue, as an unknown, you’re likely to get flamed by self-appointed net cops. Thanks for asking. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

"Ron Reinhold"  wrote…  I’m wondering if it would be acceptable to the users if I were to post an announcement here that I’m placing a rare flyfishing book for sale on eBay?

Don’t listen to those other guys, they’re only trying to get you into trouble.  The proper protocol is to send the rare flyfishing book to me, for approval. Just happy I could help, Timothy Juvenal

Response:

I have never used a newsgroup before — I’m wondering if it would be acceptable to the users if I were to post an announcement here that I’m placing a rare flyfishing book for sale on eBay? Thanks in advance for any guidance. Ron Reinhold

I’d say it’s OK as long as it’s a one time deal.  We do not appreciate continual spamming.  So, if you’re a book dealer or something, you would be better off becoming a regular contributor and put your web site on your signature.  It would be nice if you put a "FS:" at the beginning of your subject line to mark it as a for sale notice.

Response:

I have never used a newsgroup before — I’m wondering if it would be acceptable to the users if I were to post an announcement here that I’m placing a rare flyfishing book for sale on eBay? Thanks in advance for any guidance. Ron Reinhold — Ron Reinhold R.W. Reinhold Co. 4446 Westridge Dr Williamsburg, Michigan 49690 Ph# 231-938-3229  Fax# 231-938-1896

Response:

Question:

0] : Vision is very important in flyfishing. : …. : I wear "progressive" bifocals for everyday getting around, but at 8", my : knot-tying distance, I can see best with no glasses at all. That’s why I : find it most convenvient to wear single-prescription (not bifocal) : glasses for fishing. They’re securely fastened around my head with a : strap. I just drop them to my chest to tie knots or extract hooks from fish. : I wear contact lenses for one and only one activity — playing tennis. : They’re just perfect for that, but they’d be awful for fishing. I can’t : see close-up with contacts, so I’d have to wear an "extra strong" pair : of reading glasses for close work. That means I’d need (1) contact : lenses, (2) nonprescription sunglasses, and (3) extra-strong reading : glasses. Why bother? : — rw to be ornery, I’ll disagree with you. I wear contacts for about -4 diopter nearsightedness and am in my 50’s, so I have about the same problem as you. I prefer the hard contacts because they pretty much take out some considerable astigmatism I would otherwise have. My solution is to use your items (2) and (3) combined in one package which is sold as "Fisherman’s Bifocals"–polarized window glass on top and clear +3 diopter magnifiers in the bottom. Which brings up a point, that for knot tying, hook threading etc., what’s needed is considerably more magnification than is wanted for comfortable reading, in my case about +2. Mike — Michael McGuire                     Hewlett Packard Laboratories  (remove x’s from email if not      Palo Alto, CA 94303-0971   a spammer) Phone: (650)-857-5491              

Response:

I wear contact lenses for one and only one activity — playing tennis. They’re just perfect for that, but they’d be awful for fishing. I can’t see close-up with contacts, so I’d have to wear an "extra strong" pair of reading glasses for close work. That means I’d need (1) contact lenses, (2) nonprescription sunglasses, and (3) extra-strong reading glasses. Why bother?

        hell fire, i am in complete accord.  before i’d go through all that song and dance just to tie on an adams, i’d just go back to the cabin, drink about half a fifth of absolut, and forget about the fishin. wayno

Response:

Tripper: Exactly my situation.  I just ordered my first pair of bifocals last week, but ordered my new polarized sunglasses in single vision.  I have a flip focal on my hat that works great for knot tying.  Before I got it I was always having to take off my lenses to tie knots and last season I had to clean the bottom-of-the-canoe gunk from them a few times (fortunately never dropped them in a stream yet). I don’t bother flipping the flip-focals though – I find they are too distracting to have on a brim in the flipped-up state, and since I use a wide brimmed hat, not a baseball type hat, I just have them pinned on the back brim and rotate the whole hat when I need the magnifiers. I get a lot of curious looks from people who wonder why I have lenses on the back of my hat. –Stan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My solution: a pair of wide-field prescription polaroids (glass) and a pair of those flip-down magnifiers that clip onto my hat bill.

Response:

My solution: a pair of wide-field prescription polaroids (glass) and a pair of those flip-down magnifiers that clip onto my hat bill. Effective, cheap, and low risk.

With my prescription, the lenses would be an inch thick at the edges of ‘wide-field’ glasses. — Charlie…

Response:

aw heck, you fellas with bad eyesight obviously haven’t heard of the pj prescription. pj’s eyesight for tying a knot is abysmal, or so he claims…so, whoever happens to be "lucky" enough to fish with him is conscripted to tie on his flies.  I’ve witnessed Peter Charles submit to the pj selective service on Snowbird Creek, even tied on a dropper as i recall…ain’t no more powerful prescription out there. jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I can’t see close-up with contacts, so I’d have to wear an "extra strong" pair of reading glasses for close work. That means I’d need (1) contact lenses, (2) nonprescription sunglasses, and (3) extra-strong reading glasses. Why bother? That’s basically what I use and, to me, it’s worth the bother just for the additional peripheral vision. I can read ‘normal’ sized print without reading glasses, but that’s right at my limit. I’ve been wearing glasses since third grade (44 years) and I plain do *not* like bifocals, especially for climbing over/under things and wading. I guess it’s just a matter of what you consider the bother is; to me distorted peripheral vision is more of a bother than an extra pair of glasses. Well, here’s a third take. I’ve been nearsighted enough to need glasses to drive since high school. And now that I’m almost half as old as Louie ;^) I’m starting to have trouble threading flies (I can read books without trouble – just can’t find the damned eye with the tippet without a struggle). And I won’t risk my eyes to any potential  injury/infection/whatever by using contact lenses. My solution: a pair of wide-field prescription polaroids (glass) and a pair of those flip-down magnifiers that clip onto my hat bill. Effective, cheap, and low risk. /daytripper

Response:

My solution: a pair of wide-field prescription polaroids (glass) and a pair of those flip-down magnifiers that clip onto my hat bill. Effective, cheap, and low risk.

        plus, having spent a full day with you on hazel creek,  i can testify that they do a helluva job as a stand-in for a groucho disguise. wayno

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, here’s a third take. I’ve been nearsighted enough to need glasses to drive since high school. And now that I’m almost half as old as Louie ;^) I’m starting to have trouble threading flies (I can read books without trouble – just can’t find the damned eye with the tippet without a struggle). And I won’t risk my eyes to any potential  injury/infection/whatever by using contact lenses. My solution: a pair of wide-field prescription polaroids (glass) and a pair of those flip-down magnifiers that clip onto my hat bill. Effective, cheap, and low risk. /daytripper

Yep.  That’s exactly what I use.  Sometimes, I interpose Orvis sunglasses with the built-in magnifiers but contacts I will never use. All of my hats have a flip down magnifier attached. Tom — Tom Brown The Signal Group Wake Forest, NC HEATHEN, n. A benighted creature who has the folly to worship something that he can see and feel.                – Ambrose Bierce: The Devil’s Dictionary

Response:

My solution: a pair of wide-field prescription polaroids (glass) and a pair of those flip-down magnifiers that clip onto my hat bill. Effective, cheap, and low risk.    plus, having spent a full day with you on hazel creek,  i can testify that they do a helluva job as a stand-in for a groucho disguise.

Hell, with my beak, ’stache, and dark eyebrows,  I *am* Groucho! /daytripper ("Say the secret word and I’ll kick your Roe-Ann County arse!" ;^)

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I can’t see close-up with contacts, so I’d have to wear an "extra strong" pair of reading glasses for close work. That means I’d need (1) contact lenses, (2) nonprescription sunglasses, and (3) extra-strong reading glasses. Why bother? That’s basically what I use and, to me, it’s worth the bother just for the additional peripheral vision. I can read ‘normal’ sized print without reading glasses, but that’s right at my limit. I’ve been wearing glasses since third grade (44 years) and I plain do *not* like bifocals, especially for climbing over/under things and wading. I guess it’s just a matter of what you consider the bother is; to me distorted peripheral vision is more of a bother than an extra pair of glasses.

Well, here’s a third take. I’ve been nearsighted enough to need glasses to drive since high school. And now that I’m almost half as old as Louie ;^) I’m starting to have trouble threading flies (I can read books without trouble – just can’t find the damned eye with the tippet without a struggle). And I won’t risk my eyes to any potential  injury/infection/whatever by using contact lenses. My solution: a pair of wide-field prescription polaroids (glass) and a pair of those flip-down magnifiers that clip onto my hat bill. Effective, cheap, and low risk. /daytripper

Response:

I can’t see close-up with contacts, so I’d have to wear an "extra strong" pair of reading glasses for close work. That means I’d need (1) contact lenses, (2) nonprescription sunglasses, and (3) extra-strong reading glasses. Why bother?

That’s basically what I use and, to me, it’s worth the bother just for the additional peripheral vision. I can read ‘normal’ sized print without reading glasses, but that’s right at my limit. I’ve been wearing glasses since third grade (44 years) and I plain do *not* like bifocals, especially for climbing over/under things and wading. I guess it’s just a matter of what you consider the bother is; to me distorted peripheral vision is more of a bother than an extra pair of glasses. — Charlie…

Response:

Vision is very important in flyfishing. The flyfisherman not only has to see tiny flies far away in sometimes turbulent water against the glare of the sun, but he has to thread spiderweb-like tippets through the eyes of those tiny flies, and then tie intricate knots. It’s pretty hard for people with impaired vision to cope with the demands of flyfishing, especially as we get older. People who are nearsighted can’t see things far away; people who are farsighted can’t see things close up. If you’re nearsighted you need a negative correction; if you’re far sighted you need a positive correction. Nearsightedness often starts at an early age (4th grade for me), but nearly everyone becomes farsighted with advancing age, as the lenses loses flexibility and the means to change focal length, so nearsighted people eventually need bifocals. I wear "progressive" bifocals for everyday getting around, but at 8", my knot-tying distance, I can see best with no glasses at all. That’s why I find it most convenvient to wear single-prescription (not bifocal) glasses for fishing. They’re securely fastened around my head with a strap. I just drop them to my chest to tie knots or extract hooks from fish. I wear contact lenses for one and only one activity — playing tennis. They’re just perfect for that, but they’d be awful for fishing. I can’t see close-up with contacts, so I’d have to wear an "extra strong" pair of reading glasses for close work. That means I’d need (1) contact lenses, (2) nonprescription sunglasses, and (3) extra-strong reading glasses. Why bother? — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Question:

I hear ya Wayno Buddy…loud and clear. Ever drop a lit match on your whacker ? — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…" B.M.P.I.A.

        sure.  why the hell you think i stopped smoking? wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

   sure.  why the hell you think i stopped smoking?

Couldn’t work the child proof lighters? — Charlie…

Response:

Gentle FFers, Is there a FAQ, that I could look at before I ask any more FAQ? John

Response:

John Not that I know of. Actually fly fishing questions are very welcome and greeted generally with pretty full answers as they break the monotony of biting one another over and over. Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Gentle FFers, Is there a FAQ, that I could look at before I ask any more FAQ? John

Response:

Gentle FFers, Is there a FAQ, that I could look at before I ask any more FAQ? John

Yes there is.  Check out these sites: http://www.cs.nmsu.edu/~jcook/ROFF/ http://www.roff.org/ — Levi Always do sober what you said you’d do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut. –Ernest Hemingway

Response:

John Not that I know of.  [deleted]

It is a *requirement* of this newsgroup that you read the FAQ prior to posting. — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…" B.M.P.I.A.

Response:

John Not that I know of.  [deleted] It is a *requirement* of this newsgroup that you read the FAQ prior to posting.

Bullshit.      - Ken — "Everyone must believe in something. I believe I’ll go canoeing."                   — H.D. Thoreau

Response:

[deleted] Bullshit. – Ken

As much as I see poetry in this itself…. From the FAQ: "This FAQ list has been compiled by members to address questions and issues that freequently appear. Review it. " It does not say, "please review it" or "you should review it". http://www.rdc.com.au/Netiquette.html "When you join a list, monitor the messages for a few days to get a feel for what common questions are asked, and what topics are deemed off-limits. This is commonly referred to as lurking. When you feel comfortable with the group, then start posting. See if there is a FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) for a group that you are interested in joining. Veteran members get annoyed when they see the same questions every few weeks, or at the start of each semester." Again it doesn’t ask you to "please see if there is a FAQ.." it says "See if there is a FAQ". Pretty common Usenet stuff Ken.  If there is a FAQ then it is required reading… (define ‘require’). — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…" B.M.P.I.A.

Response:

 I could have sent in my version of a FAQ requiring the reading of ROFF in the nude.  While I’m sure that’s how most of us do indeed read ROFF, just because it is written does not make it a requirement. sweet baby jesus, janik, show some concern for your fellow man!  having attended more than one clave, the images suggested by your reckless ramblings force one’s imagination control to levels of sheer panic.  even the first amendment has its limits!

I hear ya Wayno Buddy…loud and clear. Ever drop a lit match on your whacker ? — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…" B.M.P.I.A.

Response:

  I could have sent in my version of a FAQ requiring the reading of ROFF in the nude.  While I’m sure that’s how most of us do indeed read ROFF, just because it is written does not make it a requirement.

        sweet baby jesus, janik, show some concern for your fellow man!  having attended more than one clave, the images suggested by your reckless ramblings force one’s imagination control to levels of sheer panic.  even the first amendment has its limits! wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

[deleted] Bullshit. – Ken As much as I see poetry in this itself…. From the FAQ: "This FAQ list has been compiled by members to address questions and issues that freequently appear. Review it. " It does not say, "please review it" or "you should review it".

The FAQ at Jon’s site is merely a collection of thoughts from various members, it is in no way an "official" charter.  I could have sent in my version of a FAQ requiring the reading of ROFF in the nude.  While I’m sure that’s how most of us do indeed read ROFF, just because it is written does not make it a requirement. http://www.rdc.com.au/Netiquette.html "When you join a list, monitor the messages for a few days to get a feel for what common questions are asked, and what topics are deemed off-limits. This is commonly referred to as lurking. When you feel comfortable with the group, then start posting. See if there is a FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) for a group that you are interested in joining. Veteran members get annoyed when they see the same questions every few weeks, or at the start of each semester." Again it doesn’t ask you to "please see if there is a FAQ.." it says "See if there is a FAQ". Pretty common Usenet stuff Ken.  If there is a FAQ then it is required reading…

The site you cite is titled "Net User Guidelines and Netiquette" and is from one particular University.  You even selectively took sentences from various sections.  In the Usenet section, it does not even mention FAQs. It is CERTAINLY a good idea to read the FAQ, it’s probably even a nice thing to do, but it is in no way required. Later,      - Ken — "Everyone must believe in something. I believe I’ll go canoeing."                   — H.D. Thoreau

Response:

Question:

Can anyone provide links to websites that sell quality flies at lower than retail prices?  Thanks.

Response:

Try www.discountflyfishing.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can anyone provide links to websites that sell quality flies at lower than retail prices?  Thanks.

Response:

Visit www.popularfishingflies.com Here you find one of the best prices on the Net. Popular Fishing Flies – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can anyone provide links to websites that sell quality flies at lower than retail prices?  Thanks.

Response:

Can anyone provide links to websites that sell quality flies at lower than retail prices?  Thanks.

Hi Clyde, Check out the Wayne Hart’s replies in the "Best price??" thread above, he gives a link to what sounds like a real good place to by flies online. Darin

Response:

You might want to also try the ‘Fly Shops’ category link from http://flyfishing.about.com/  There are a variety of fly shops that sells flies on-line listed there.

Response:

Question:

I’d like to come along on the next cruise if I could please, for the food if  nothing else! Sounds wonderful, and what short cruising is all about. Peggy Carr

Response:

The penultimate weekend of our sailing season was glorious. With no guests scheduled, we thought to anchor out Saturday night under the cliffs of Upper Nyack, in the Tappan Zee. Saturday morning began with a visit to the Union Square Greenmarket for provisions. For the trip, we came away with a piece of codfish, cooking and salad tomatoes, onion, Rocambole garlic, purple Anaheim pepper and a yellow one from an untagged basket, salad greens I don’t even know the names of, and little yellow-fleshed fingerling potatoes. We got off the dock at 1110. The tide was on the second half of the flood, running north at 1.5 kts near the marina(just south of the Holland Tunnel), with slack in about two to three hours. The slack travels north, getting to Tarrytown over an hour later. The wind was south, extremely light. With the main bairly keeping steerageway, we hoisted our half-ounce chute. 1,000 square feet of almost-imaginary gossamer nylon, it filled and lifted immediately. It would draw the boat close to the speed of the wind, so any fluctuation in wind strength would cause it to sag, but it kept us going a little faster than the tide. 1210 At the 79th Street boat basin, a northeast breeze came up, about 10 kts. Chute down, jib up, sheeted to rail outside lifelines. This made it possible to make and handle sandwiches. Farm-grown atlantic salmon with horseradish mayonnaise and capers on sourdough. I patched a small hole I had seen while the chute was flying. This old sail (1984) has about half a dozen small tape patches and two larger ones sewn by a sailmaker, all before we owned the boat. Still with the jib at Spuyten Duyvil, and Osprey with a fish crossed our bow heading west to the Jersey shore. A Greater Black Back gull harrassed the osprey all the way, trying to get it to drop the fish. This is common Bald Eagle behavior, and eagles do get away with it. The gull, impressive as it is, is no eagle and the osprey held on, getting its fish to a tree on the Palisades. Meanwhile the NE wind was dying, and two more ospreys were fishing near Riverdale, the fancy section of the Bronx just north of Spuyten Duyvil. Splashes of fall color here and there on the Palisades. The southerly returned so quietly that we rehoisted the half ounce from the forward hatch, without bothering to repack it in stops. This was nearly successful, but the sail caught on the pole lift where it enters the mast. I had to let out a few inches on both the halyard and the pole lift to get it free. No damage. 1430 passed Yonkers pier. Wind picking up, still from the south. The flood is dying out but the wind now more than makes up for it. The land starts moving by. We do a very messy spinnaker gybe right off Hastings Boat Club, very emabrrassing. A perfect one near Irvington. Lots of sailboats in this part of the river. 1510 under the Tappan Zee Bridge. About 8 miles in 40 minutes. Another gybe went well, and we were almost euphoric. We wanted to go on forever, but know it gets dark early. Running downwind in the summer would be quite unpleasant, with sweat pouring into my eyes. The temperature was just right on Saturday. My sunglasses did fog up about 3 times, however. We dropped sails off Upper Nyack, where we planned to anchor. The current was ebbing quite strongly by this time, the slack having caught and passed us. The southerly was quite strong. THe combination makes anchoring a little tricky, although the holding ground here is perfect, medium clay. By letting the boat lose way completely and drift, we can get out one anchor without wrapping the keel. The wind was overcoming the ebb, so we set the south anchor, a 5-kg Bruce, first. Then, at the end of the rode, we set the Fortress FX-16 to the north. Then, two 12-lb kellets went down, hooked around both rodes, keeping them together below the keel. For cocktails we enjoyed chevre and cold-smoked trout, both from local farms that come to the greenmarket. A bottle of Gruet, a bubbly from New Mexico that we like very much, with a pair of fine crystal champagne flutes that we only use alone, and in a non-bouncy place. For dinner, the codfish, cooked in a bed of peppers, onion, plum tomatoes (blanched in the potato water , peeled and seeded) and fingerling potatoes went well with a Chardonnay, 1965 from Hogue Cellars in Oregon. Everything but the wine from the greenmarket. The temperature remained unseasonably warm through a perfect evening, with no mosquitos. After we hit the sack, it rained occasionally through the night. In the morning, it was misty, dead calm, and the tide was against us. After a late breakfast we weighed anchor and motored south. Without the concentration the spinnaker required the day before, we enjoyed a blaze of fall color, most intense from Piermont to  the 41st parallel, which we toasted with Cream Stout. It (the parallel) was right where we had left it, and all was right with the world, except for wind. We enjoyed the scenery under power to south of the GW bridge. On the way, we saw a falcon fly north up the center of the river, more ospreys, red-tail hawks as well as the usual vultures at the top of the palisades. South of the bridge, a light southerly came up, and although the tide was still flooding slightly, we had only 5 miles to the marina. We set main and jib again, and had a delightful beat. We just kept going past the marina into the harbor, with the tide ebbing strongly. We encountered a friend (the one who went with us to Maine last month) on a J27 out of the Chelsea Piers sailing school. We tried to circumnavigate Governors Island, but straight downwind in the Buttermilk channel wasn’t making it. We had to power into the 2.9-kt current briefly. Then back to the marina. 20 years without a car, a TV, or a home page

Response:

Question:

Where can I buy some fly fish?

Response:

Where can I buy some fly fish?

You can buy some really "fly" fish at the Homeboy ShoppingClub.  They gots the flyest and the most freshest fish they is Homey! — Gordon Churchill Flyfish NC http://www.planet-nc.com/flyfishnc/ Striped Bass on the Roanoke River, Hybrids on Jordan Lake, Largemouths on surface.  Pickup and dropoff in Research Triangle Park

Response:

: Where can I buy some fly fish? I tell you what… you come over and paint my ceiling, Mike, and I’ll give you some fly fish. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

Response:

Where can I buy some fly fish?

On the waterfront at Oistins, Barbados.  Delicious fried. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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Question:

I am going to have 3 or 4 days in No. Ark/So. Mo to kill in mid June.   Can anyone recomend a guide service?  Hope to find some big browns! Thanks, KNACK Whitehouse, TX

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Check with Dale Fulton at Blue Ribbon Flies in Mountain Home, Ark. Also, check out Andy McMinn’s Arkansas fly fishing page at: http://kanweb.com/fly/ It’s full of information. Good Luck! Steve Rosenblum

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I am going to have 3 or 4 days in No. Ark/So. Mo to kill in mid June.

Sandra,         Used to guide in Ark.   Here’s a list of guides and phone numbers that will give you the best available in that area. SHOPS:           Blue Ribbon Flies – Dale Fulton – (501)or(870) 425-0447         P.J.’s Resort (501) 499-7500         Wapsi Fly (a wholesaler) – ask for T.L. – (501) 425-9500 GUIDES:         John Gulley 501-499-7517         Bob Snyder      499-4287         Dwayne Hada     452-3559 (The Woodsman – Ft. Smith)         Sandra, the best way to be assured of catching large browns is to night fish, since they are primarily nocturnal feeders. Be sure to have plenty of Gink for your large dries and Xink for the huge nymphs required for those record browns.          John Gulley is a pro at night fishing and can definitely put you on some big fish if the time  is right when you go up there.  Be sure to ask about water conditions and generating schedules for that time of year when you call.  I’ve know and fished with John since the mid 70’s but have been out of contact with him for about ten years.  John, a seasoned guide, is rather drole and deliberate in his manner.         Dwayne Hada, also a personal friend of mine, guides all over that area.  I don’t know about Dwayne’s experience with brown trout per-se’. However, Dwayne, a former high school art teacher, is very personable and well mannered. Have Fun – Wendell Hise Snake River – Hell’s Canyon Gink keeps it up – Xink puts it down!

Response:

Question:

thanks for clarifying those aspects of your post I didn’t quite grasp re: comets. here in rainy BC we don’t get to see the sky much! Ralph H – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – :   : : So? Why don’t you show the kind of guts we’ve shown in BC and enact : : regulations that reduce the level of pressure on those rivers; those rivers : :  belong to the residents of those states! Check out the regs for BC rivers : :  like the Dean! Non-residents have to pay more; they have to use a guide : : they may have to enter a lottery for a right to fish – : : : and yes I support the use of lottery entrance where the demand for access : : exceeds the resources capacity!   : : : Ralph, IMHO, lottery and fee based restrictions you advocate run contrary to : many of the arguments you made in your post.  These methods will result in : only the elite getting access, because the non-elite cannot afford guides and : expensive fees for a few hours of fishing.   : Whoever the elite are?  Is a fellow who hires a guide for 2 days on the : SanJuan but never at any other point in the year a member of the elite?  Are : your own irrational prejudices showing through?  Personally I have never : hired a guide.        I have, made me feel elite and I did not necessarily like it.  Point is that the outfitters do create limits on access to the people not wishing to spend that kind of money. : Personally I would have no problem with paying more for a licence than I do : now or paying a stream fee that is reasonable and doesn’t make it impossible : for most fishers to enjoy a good number of days on the water.        Neither do I.  I do not mind if the access is equally open to all of us, however the local outfitters are capable of and frequently do consume all the access available on private-fee fisheries and thus make the effective cost much,much higher.  That prices the opportunity out of reach for most. : My point is:  Tim and yourself seem obsessed with the problems of a few : waters.  To solve that problem they would radically alter our access to all : waters and even more radically alter how we act on them; force us to kill, : force us to be instruments of harvest and not sportsmen.        I do not, nor have I ever advocated **forcing** anyone to kill.  I limit my kill to as low a level as I can.  I have not consumed a trout for food in as long as I can remember.  I advocate allowing limited harvest rather than pure C&R.  I thought my post had made that clear. : I argue it is possible to regulate waters such as this individually to : reduce the problem and force anglers to spread out but overall maintain : general access and a pluralistic approach to harvest issues that allow : individuals to follow a variety of viewpoints.        This is precisely what I meant to say, only I argue that pure C&R is not the only approach and in most cases, it is unjustifyable. : If you don’t like it any more give it up and take up bird watching!        Thanks, but I prefer comets. — Hewlett Packard, ESL R&D, MS55 Ft. Collins, CO  80525

Response:

:   : : So? Why don’t you show the kind of guts we’ve shown in BC and enact : : regulations that reduce the level of pressure on those rivers; those rivers : :  belong to the residents of those states! Check out the regs for BC rivers : :  like the Dean! Non-residents have to pay more; they have to use a guide : : they may have to enter a lottery for a right to fish – : : : and yes I support the use of lottery entrance where the demand for access : : exceeds the resources capacity!   : : : Ralph, IMHO, lottery and fee based restrictions you advocate run contrary to : many of the arguments you made in your post.  These methods will result in : only the elite getting access, because the non-elite cannot afford guides and : expensive fees for a few hours of fishing.   : Whoever the elite are?  Is a fellow who hires a guide for 2 days on the : SanJuan but never at any other point in the year a member of the elite?  Are : your own irrational prejudices showing through?  Personally I have never : hired a guide.         I have, made me feel elite and I did not necessarily like it.  Point is that the outfitters do create limits on access to the people not wishing to spend that kind of money. : Personally I would have no problem with paying more for a licence than I do : now or paying a stream fee that is reasonable and doesn’t make it impossible : for most fishers to enjoy a good number of days on the water.         Neither do I.  I do not mind if the access is equally open to all of us, however the local outfitters are capable of and frequently do consume all the access available on private-fee fisheries and thus make the effective cost much,much higher.  That prices the opportunity out of reach for most. : My point is:  Tim and yourself seem obsessed with the problems of a few : waters.  To solve that problem they would radically alter our access to all : waters and even more radically alter how we act on them; force us to kill, : force us to be instruments of harvest and not sportsmen.         I do not, nor have I ever advocated **forcing** anyone to kill.  I limit my kill to as low a level as I can.  I have not consumed a trout for food in as long as I can remember.  I advocate allowing limited harvest rather than pure C&R.  I thought my post had made that clear. : I argue it is possible to regulate waters such as this individually to : reduce the problem and force anglers to spread out but overall maintain : general access and a pluralistic approach to harvest issues that allow : individuals to follow a variety of viewpoints.         This is precisely what I meant to say, only I argue that pure C&R is not the only approach and in most cases, it is unjustifyable. : If you don’t like it any more give it up and take up bird watching!         Thanks, but I prefer comets. — Hewlett Packard, ESL R&D, MS55 Ft. Collins, CO  80525

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here in the northern Sweden I’m not obliged to release the browns, graylings or char I catch. I’ll do it anyway, out of respect of nature Hans, I am afraid that you too have been lulled in to believing that the disrespect of hooking nature in the face with a hook can be mitigated by its release.  This ‘respect of nature’ argument is the most ludicrous and hypocritical reason for pure C&R that I can think of.  If you *truly* respected our wild friends, you would *not* fish for them, you would leave them alone, would you not ? Respectfully, — TimW Halfordian Golfer

No Tim, I haven’t been lulled into anything. It’s a personal belief that has grown and matured during my 20 years of flyfishing. If C&R is done properly, i.e without touching the fish when possible and reducing the time of the fight, it beats the hell out of C&K. You’re right about one thing – it is best to leave them alone. Knocking everything you catch on the head is however both much more disrespectful to the pray than letting them go, and is simply a practise that belongs to the past. Sincerely, Hans Edman, Umea, Sweden

Response:

No Tim, I haven’t been lulled into anything. It’s a personal belief that has grown and matured during my 20 years of flyfishing. If C&R is done properly, i.e without touching the fish when possible and reducing the time of the fight, it beats the hell out of C&K. You’re right about one thing – it is best to leave them alone. Knocking everything you catch on the head is however both much more disrespectful to the pray than letting them go, and is simply a practise that belongs to the past.

Hans – You can’t seriously debate with someone who *screams* about how heinous it is to scar a fish’s face and then let it go, but who freely admits to dragging fish around on a stringer while float-tubing because it keeps them fresh. Hell, use of a priest to euthanize the fish would be much *more* respectful and considerate than that. The *only* thing important to this guy is to go on feeling good about his right to kill fish when and wherever he wants. Don’t waste your breath treating with him or your time thinking he has a coherent point to argue. Only day before yesterday, Tim W said: ….and now I’m movin’ on…you either get it or you don’t…

And this, in debate terms, is called ‘begging the question’. I rest my case. and then said: No more C&R diatribe from me…

QED I am only trying to clue you in because I don’t recall seeing your name on posts before (forgive me if I am mistaken). I am probably rash in posting this, because, as you may have observed, we’ve been trying to shut debate on this topic down for a while (and maybe drop the animosity level a notch or two). May work, may not. Here’s hoping. — Lon Hall Applied Intelligence Group, Inc. Home #: (405)359-1556 Work #: (405)936-2389 "Eat the rich. The poor are tough and stringy."

Response:

Lon Hall writes: Hans – You can’t seriously debate with someone who *screams* about how heinous it is to scar a fish’s face and then let it go, but who freely admits to dragging fish around on a stringer while float-tubing because it keeps them fresh. Hell, use of a priest to euthanize the fish would be much *more* respectful and considerate than that. The *only* thing important to this guy is to go on feeling good about his right to kill fish when and wherever he wants. Don’t waste your breath treating with him or your time thinking he has a coherent point to argue.

(snip) I am only trying to clue you in because I don’t recall seeing your name on posts before (forgive me if I am mistaken). I am probably rash in posting this, because, as you may have observed, we’ve been trying to shut debate on this topic down for a while (and maybe drop the animosity level a notch or two).

Thanks Lon, for dropping the animosity level down a notch or two. jim

Response:

Well spoken, Ralph! Here in the northern Sweden I’m not obliged to release the browns, graylings or char I catch. I’ll do it anyway, out of respect of nature Hans, I am afraid that you too have been lulled in to believing that the disrespect of hooking nature in the face with a hook can be mitigated by its release.  This ‘respect of nature’ argument is the most ludicrous and hypocritical reason for pure C&R that I can think of.  If you *truly* respected our wild friends, you would *not* fish for them, you would leave them alone, would you not ?

Sounds like your argument is "If you hook it, kill it – otherwise don’t fish". Gee, I sure hope you never lose control of a cast and end up hooking yourself.  "Yipes!  Hooked myself!  Better go shoot myself now…" <BANG!  <thud  (I can see the obituary page now – "Catch and Kill Fisherman Was True To His Sport".  :-) If I followed that logic where I fish most often I’d soon be out of fish.  It’s a small pond that probably has only a dozen or so good-sized bass in it.  If I killed each one I caught there wouldn’t be many left now, so I put ‘em back after I catch ‘em. My point is that what’s correct for you may not be correct for others in different situations, and vice versa.  Ah well, diff’rent strokes and all… — Bob Jarvis Mail addresses hacked to foil automailers! Remove ‘_spamless’ from reply address

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well spoken, Ralph! Here in the northern Sweden I’m not obliged to release the browns, graylings or char I catch. I’ll do it anyway, out of respect of nature Hans, I am afraid that you too have been lulled in to believing that the disrespect of hooking nature in the face with a hook can be mitigated by its release.  This ‘respect of nature’ argument is the most ludicrous and hypocritical reason for pure C&R that I can think of.  If you *truly* respected our wild friends, you would *not* fish for them, you would leave them alone, would you not ? Respectfully, — TimW Halfordian Golfer

           TIM,    IF YOU BELIEVE WHAT YOU JUST WROTE THAN YOU SHOULD RESPECT THE FISH AND QUIT TRYING TO CATCH THEM  OR ARE YOU JUST ANOTHER  HYPOCRITE WHO LIKES TO HEAR HIMSELF PASS GAS.                    HARV

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snip : – I WILL NOT ACCEPT BEING LABELLED AS A GREEDY PERSON BY SOMEONE :    WHOSE AVOWED INTENTION IS TO ENACT RULES AND REGULATIONS THAT :   LIMIT FISHING OPPORTUNITIES TO A FEW SO HIS PLEASURE IS IMPEDED BY :     THE MINIMUM NUMBER OF PEOPLE POSSIBLE! : You are out to enhance your pleasure at the expense of the pleasure of : others! <snip Tim, correct me if I am wrong….  I is my understanding from reading Tim’s posts, that he does not oppose releasing a fish…  But rather opposes the existence of *pure* C&R fisheries.  Pure C&R fisheries lead to many evils, scarred & damaged fish, unusuall

Tim has certainly stated clearly that by lottery or by some enforced c&k regulation on all waters he wants to see fishing pressure reduced to the minimum number of anglers per mile. he has been all over the map on how to do this but Tim clearly has a prejudice against others who use the waters in ways he does not favour and will stoop to all sorts of regulations etc to get them off so he can enjoy his sport on his terms at their expense. : So? Why don’t you show the kind of guts we’ve shown in BC and enact : regulations that reduce the level of pressure on those rivers; those rivers :  belong to the residents of those states! Check out the regs for BC rivers :  like the Dean! Non-residents have to pay more; they have to use a guide : they may have to enter a lottery for a right to fish – : and yes I support the use of lottery entrance where the demand for access : exceeds the resources capacity!   Ralph, IMHO, lottery and fee based restrictions you advocate run contrary to many of the arguments you made in your post.  These methods will result in only the elite getting access, because the non-elite cannot afford guides and expensive fees for a few hours of fishing.  

Whoever the elite are? Is a fellow who hires a guide for 2 days on the SanJuan but never at any other point in the year a member of the elite? Are your own irrational prejudices showing through? Personally I have never hired a guide. Personally I would have no problem with paying more for a licence than I do now or paying a stream fee that is reasonable and doesn’t make it impossible for most fishers to enjoy a good number of days on the water. My point is: Tim and yourself seem obsessed with the problems of a few waters. To solve that problem they would radically alter our access to all waters and even more radically alter how we act on them; force us to kill, force us to be instruments of harvest and not sportsmen. I argue it is possible to regulate waters such as this individually to reduce the problem and force anglers to spread out but overall maintain general access and a pluralistic approach to harvest issues that allow individuals to follow a variety of viewpoints. After jousting with Don Quixote for a number of months I still don’t know what his bottom line is or what he is really after. I find increasingly I am dealing with a point of view that is self righteous, closed minded, hypocritical, sees the resource and the sport as exclusively for those that share the point of view and shifts and gets more radical as one finds legitimate criticism of it’s basic proposals. I also find it is a point of view that assumes it has a sort of papal infallability and is beyond criticism. just look at his response to the criticism of his use of stringers. Any level of agony inflicted on fish is justified as long as he is the one who is inflicting it! Because he eats the catch he has given himself carte blanche to something approaching sadism. If you don’t like it any more give it up and take up bird watching! Ralph H – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text — Hewlett Packard, ESL R&D, MS55 Ft. Collins, CO  80525

Response:

Well spoken, Ralph! Here in the northern Sweden I’m not obliged to release the browns, graylings or char I catch. I’ll do it anyway, out of respect of nature

Hans, I am afraid that you too have been lulled in to believing that the disrespect of hooking nature in the face with a hook can be mitigated by its release.  This ‘respect of nature’ argument is the most ludicrous and hypocritical reason for pure C&R that I can think of.  If you *truly* respected our wild friends, you would *not* fish for them, you would leave them alone, would you not ? Respectfully, — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Response:

<snip : – I WILL NOT ACCEPT BEING LABELLED AS A GREEDY PERSON BY SOMEONE :    WHOSE AVOWED INTENTION IS TO ENACT RULES AND REGULATIONS THAT :   LIMIT FISHING OPPORTUNITIES TO A FEW SO HIS PLEASURE IS IMPEDED BY :     THE MINIMUM NUMBER OF PEOPLE POSSIBLE! : You are out to enhance your pleasure at the expense of the pleasure of : others! <snip Tim, correct me if I am wrong….  I is my understanding from reading Tim’s posts, that he does not oppose releasing a fish…  But rather opposes the existence of *pure* C&R fisheries.  Pure C&R fisheries lead to many evils, scarred & damaged fish, unusually crowded and overfished stretches of rivers, and the threat of PETA attacking our sport.   We could change the regulation to a slot limit on most pure C&R fisheries without diminishing the fish significantly and then allow the taking of the older, scarred up fish.  This *for me* would much improve the fishing experience because I personally do not like catching torn up scarred up fish like you find consistently in the locations listed below.

:       There is no quality of experience left in the following pure C&R waters: :       The San Juan below Navajo Dam.  The Frying Pan below Reudi. :       The Green below Flaming Gorge.  The Uncompaghre below Ridgway. :       The South Platte (God rest her soul) below Cheesman canyon. :       If you think that pure C&R has enhanced your experience in these :       places then you will never ever understand the truth.   : So? Why don’t you show the kind of guts we’ve shown in BC and enact : regulations that reduce the level of pressure on those rivers; those rivers :  belong to the residents of those states! Check out the regs for BC rivers :  like the Dean! Non-residents have to pay more; they have to use a guide : they may have to enter a lottery for a right to fish – : and yes I support the use of lottery entrance where the demand for access : exceeds the resources capacity!   We already have a few lottery situations in the regulations of hunting.  I believe this will ultimately become a necessary solution if the popularity of fishing continues to increase at the rate we have seen in the past few years. While I would not like the restriction of access at all, I would enjoy the fishing experience much more assuming the lottery is fairly administered. This however will not happen because the outfitters will demand an unfair share of the access to maintain their businesses.   Ralph, IMHO, lottery and fee based restrictions you advocate run contrary to many of the arguments you made in your post.  These methods will result in only the elite getting access, because the non-elite cannot afford guides and expensive fees for a few hours of fishing.  Also, *I believe* lottery systems will unfairly favor the guides who will find ways to obtain more than their fair share of access permits to further their business. You can argue that a lottery system already exists in this way….  First to a fishing hole gets the spot.  The guides on many rivers in our area arrive very early (or have a paid flunky get there) and stake out the best fishing holes on the river.  They bring their sports (elitists who have the bucks to hire a guide to grab and hold the best water) to these spots and stay there all day.  You will find this happening alot on the Pan and So Platte.  On the floatable rivers, the guides get more than their fair share for float permits, thus again limiting access to the elite. These are complex problems which will get nothing but worse as population increases in our area.  I fish now and enjoy it very much, but I do not expect to fish nearly as much in the future as the quality of the experience continues to diminish with the pressure of multitudes.  One can only hope that Hollywood does not make another movie about flyfishing. — Hewlett Packard, ESL R&D, MS55 Ft. Collins, CO  80525

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Tim, you should change your handle to Don Quioxte; you put so much effort into tilting at wind mills! TimW writes:    The neighbor’s collie still craps on the lawn even after Eddie    throws snowballs at it.. [snip] Your dog poop "thing" reminds me of a funny story: A friend went to complain to his neighbour about the neighbours dog crapping on his lawn. As they stood discussing the issue – of course the neighbour contested his dog would never do such a thing – the dog wandered over into my friends yard and dumped in plain sight of both of them. That’s exactly what’s happened here!    You and many pure C&R-ers measure the ethical treatment of animals    only by mortality studies.  You do not consider that a wild animal    in its element *deserves* a certain amount of respect. [snip] By your gut you refer to your stomach no doubt – your great arbitrator of ethical issues. If there is an ethical issue ( and you’ve never even tried to establish why there is one) it is far more complex than you make out – or even have attempted to comprehend; (Oh sorry Tim this may be an insult but then I’m just calling them as I see them – <BEG)    The carnage of pure C&R is swept under the rug every month in    the ff magazines and the entire industry is brainwashed into    thinking that it is somehow OK to hurt a wild animal, just for    fun. Whatever that carnage may be if it exists anywhere but in your imagination remains to be defined and exposed; get off your duff and do it  - maybe I’ll come around to your point of view! [snip]    You insist (greedily) that ‘quality fishing’ implies ONLY number    of and size of fish. This is the part where YOUR dog craps on my lawn in plain sight of everyone who has a look; I made no such insistence; I usually choose less uncrowded waters populated with fewer fish to have some peace- BUT THAT IS MY CHOICE- I’m not out to stuff my choice down anyone’s throat.  The fish I catch are often a pound or less when I could easily go elsewhere to catch pickup loads of fish bigger than you have ever seen. – I WILL NOT ACCEPT BEING LABELLED AS A GREEDY PERSON BY SOMEONE   WHOSE AVOWED INTENTION IS TO ENACT RULES AND REGULATIONS THAT  LIMIT FISHING OPPORTUNITIES TO A FEW SO HIS PLEASURE IS IMPEDED BY    THE MINIMUM NUMBER OF PEOPLE POSSIBLE! You are out to enhance your pleasure at the expense of the pleasure of others! If that isn’t greed what is? Any greed associated with catch and release pales beside that old chum. You know Tim I hoped you could do better than these dreary ad hominium arguments – but perhaps you’ve picked up the habit from some my fellow c&r’ers who couldn’t do better either.    There is no quality of experience left in the following pure C&R waters:    The San Juan below Navajo Dam.  The Frying Pan below Reudi.    The Green below Flaming Gorge.  The Uncompaghre below Ridgway.    The South Platte (God rest her soul) below Cheesman canyon.    If you think that pure C&R has enhanced your experience in these    places then you will never ever understand the truth.   So? Why don’t you show the kind of guts we’ve shown in BC and enact regulations that reduce the level of pressure on those rivers; those rivers belong to the residents of those states! Check out the regs for BC rivers like the Dean! Non-residents have to pay more; they have to use a guide they may have to enter a lottery for a right to fish – and yes I support the use of lottery entrance where the demand for access exceeds the resources capacity!   But I will never support lottery access so some catch and kill elitists can get all the rivers to themselves, so they can kill a few fish but bar those who’d let them go! The very essence of the sport has to be that given a set of regulations the angler gets to choose how he pursues his sport. This was the meaning of Haig Browns "the Law Breaker" if we are forced to kill then we are only instruments of harvest not sports fishers.    Someone actually argued against the position that fisheries    management is about a balance of fish and having as few fishermen    per mile Gee who was that? Ralph H        TimW Without catch and release fishing as we have come to know it will not stand and will pass into the oblivion of archaic practice. There is nothing we do when we lure a fish, hook it, play it, land and then release it that is not done with catch and kill. The experience of the fish is the same up until the point it is released! Then it is given a 90%+ chance of survival! Ninety percent or better that it will spawn and enhance the fish stock. Ninety percent or better that it will do the fishy things that make a fishes life worth while. That make our sport worth while. If we cave in to the hysterical and illogical forces that would restrict the catching and killing of fish to force of law and the chance of lottery we will strip the sport of its essence. We will  be able to fish so seldom that most will hang their rods in shame and pursue other pastimes. For those that do continue to fish the mystery of fishing will be replaced by the certainty of a dead fish or two and a modest meal. Without catch and release fishing as we have come to know it will not stand and will pass into the oblivion of archaic practice. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

                       Harv

Response:

Tim, you should change your handle to Don Quioxte; you put so much effort into tilting at wind mills!  TimW writes:

        The neighbor’s collie still craps on the lawn even after Eddie         throws snowballs at it.. [snip] Your dog poop "thing" reminds me of a funny story: A friend went to complain to his neighbour about the neighbours dog crapping on his lawn. As they stood discussing the issue – of course the neighbour contested his dog would never do such a thing – the dog wandered over into my friends yard and dumped in plain sight of both of them. That’s exactly what’s happened here!         You and many pure C&R-ers measure the ethical treatment of animals         only by mortality studies.  You do not consider that a wild animal         in its element *deserves* a certain amount of respect. [snip] By your gut you refer to your stomach no doubt – your great arbitrator of ethical issues. If there is an ethical issue ( and you’ve never even tried to establish why  there is one) it is far more complex than you make out – or even have attempted to comprehend; (Oh sorry Tim this may be an insult but then I’m just calling them as I see  them – <BEG)         The carnage of pure C&R is swept under the rug every month in         the ff magazines and the entire industry is brainwashed into         thinking that it is somehow OK to hurt a wild animal, just for         fun. Whatever that carnage may be if it exists anywhere but in your imagination remains to be defined and exposed; get off your duff and do it  - maybe I’ll come around to your point of view! [snip]         You insist (greedily) that ‘quality fishing’ implies ONLY number         of and size of fish. This is the part where YOUR dog craps on my lawn in plain sight of everyone who has a look; I made no such insistence; I usually choose less uncrowded waters populated with fewer fish to have some peace- BUT THAT IS MY CHOICE- I’m not out to stuff my choice down anyone’s throat.  The fish I catch are often a pound or less when I could easily go  elsewhere to catch pickup loads of fish bigger than you have ever seen. – I WILL NOT ACCEPT BEING LABELLED AS A GREEDY PERSON BY SOMEONE    WHOSE AVOWED INTENTION IS TO ENACT RULES AND REGULATIONS THAT   LIMIT FISHING OPPORTUNITIES TO A FEW SO HIS PLEASURE IS IMPEDED BY     THE MINIMUM NUMBER OF PEOPLE POSSIBLE! You are out to enhance your pleasure at the expense of the pleasure of others! If that isn’t greed what is? Any greed associated with catch and release  pales beside that old chum. You know Tim I hoped you could do better than these dreary ad hominium arguments – but perhaps you’ve picked up the habit from some my fellow c&r’ers who couldn’t do better either.         There is no quality of experience left in the following pure C&R waters:         The San Juan below Navajo Dam.  The Frying Pan below Reudi.         The Green below Flaming Gorge.  The Uncompaghre below Ridgway.         The South Platte (God rest her soul) below Cheesman canyon.         If you think that pure C&R has enhanced your experience in these         places then you will never ever understand the truth.   So? Why don’t you show the kind of guts we’ve shown in BC and enact regulations that reduce the level of pressure on those rivers; those rivers  belong to the residents of those states! Check out the regs for BC rivers  like the Dean! Non-residents have to pay more; they have to use a guide they may have to enter a lottery for a right to fish – and yes I support the use of lottery entrance where the demand for access exceeds the resources capacity!   But I will never support lottery access so some catch and kill elitists  can get all the rivers to themselves, so they can kill a few fish but bar those who’d let them go! The very essence of the sport has to be that given a set of regulations the angler gets to choose how he pursues his sport. This was the meaning of Haig Browns "the Law Breaker" if we are forced to kill then we are only  instruments of harvest not sports fishers.         Someone actually argued against the position that fisheries         management is about a balance of fish and having as few fishermen         per mile Gee who was that? Ralph H         TimW – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Without catch and release fishing as we have come to know it will not stand and will pass into the oblivion of archaic practice. There is nothing we do when we lure a fish, hook it, play it, land and then release it that is not done with catch and kill. The experience of the fish is the same up until the point it is released! Then it is given a 90%+ chance of survival! Ninety percent or better that it will spawn and enhance the fish stock. Ninety percent or better that it will do the fishy things that make a fishes life worth while. That make our sport worth while. If we cave in to the hysterical and illogical forces that would restrict the catching and killing of fish to force of law and the chance of lottery we will strip the sport of its essence. We will  be able to fish so seldom that most will hang their rods in shame and pursue other pastimes. For those that do continue to fish the mystery of fishing will be replaced by the certainty of a dead fish or two and a modest meal. Without catch and release fishing as we have come to know it will not stand and will pass into the oblivion of archaic practice.

– TimW Halfordian Golfer

Response:

Without catch and release fishing as we have come to know it will not stand and will pass into the oblivion of archaic practice. There is nothing we do when we lure a fish, hook it, play it, land and then release it that is not done with catch and kill. The experience of the fish is the same up until the point it is released! Then it is given a 90%+ chance of survival! Ninety percent or better that it will spawn and enhance the fish stock. Ninety percent or better that it will do the fishy things that make a fishes life worth while. That make our sport worth while. If we cave in to the hysterical and illogical forces that would restrict the catching and killing of fish to force of law and the chance of lottery we will strip the sport of its essence. We will  be able to fish so seldom that most will hang their rods in shame and pursue other pastimes. For those that do continue to fish the mystery of fishing will be replaced by the certainty of a dead fish or two and a modest meal. Without catch and release fishing as we have come to know it will not stand and will pass into the oblivion of archaic practice.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Without catch and release fishing as we have come to know it will not stand and will pass into the oblivion of archaic practice. There is nothing we do when we lure a fish, hook it, play it, land and then release it that is not done with catch and kill. The experience of the fish is the same up until the point it is released! Then it is given a 90%+ chance of survival! Ninety percent or better that it will spawn and enhance the fish stock. Ninety percent or better that it will do the fishy things that make a fishes life worth while. That make our sport worth while. If we cave in to the hysterical and illogical forces that would restrict the catching and killing of fish to force of law and the chance of lottery we will strip the sport of its essence. We will  be able to fish so seldom that most will hang their rods in shame and pursue other pastimes. For those that do continue to fish the mystery of fishing will be replaced by the certainty of a dead fish or two and a modest meal. Without catch and release fishing as we have come to know it will not stand and will pass into the oblivion of archaic practice.

Well spoken, Ralph! Here in the northern Sweden I’m not obliged to release the browns, graylings or char I catch. I’ll do it anyway, out of respect of nature and its limited resources. If I had to kill all the watery friends I manage to outwit, by imitating what they eat, by making a great cast, by reading the water or simply by persistance, then I would feel sick. It would be like having to kill the dog after walking it. Roughly… /Hans Edman, Umea, Sweden

Response:

Yeah yeah yeah… The neighbor’s collie still craps on the lawn even after Eddie throws snowballs at it…you can leave the bitch out on a 20 below zero night and she still wags her tail at you in the morning.  Same thing if you stake her out in the hot August sun in Rifle.  You can be cruel as hell to a dog, they’ll still be around to crap on the lawn, man. But you know Ralph…I feel better that I do not kick her or tie her up in the sun and I feel better when she has water and food. You and many pure C&R-ers measure the ethical treatment of animals only by mortality studies.  You do not consider that a wild animal in its element *deserves* a certain amount of respect. They do not exist purely for our pleasure, of that I am certain.  This is what MY gut tells me.   The carnage of pure C&R is swept under the rug every month in the ff magazines and the entire industry is brainwashed into thinking that it is somehow OK to hurt a wild animal, just for fun. Why do you continue to ignore the efficacy of selective harvest as a workable concept in all fisheriy situations ? You insist (greedily) that ‘quality fishing’ implies ONLY number of and size of fish.  This ONLY guarantees crowded conditions which nails the coffin of quality shut… There is no quality of experience left in the following pure C&R waters: The San Juan below Navajo Dam.  The Frying Pan below Reudi. The Green below Flaming Gorge.  The Uncompaghre below Ridgway. The South Platte (God rest her soul) below Cheesman canyon. If you think that pure C&R has enhanced your experience in these places then you will never ever understand the truth.   Someone actually argued against the position that fisheries management is about a balance of fish and having as few fishermen per mile as possible.  Amazing.  Absolutely amazing.   TimW – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Without catch and release fishing as we have come to know it will not stand and will pass into the oblivion of archaic practice. There is nothing we do when we lure a fish, hook it, play it, land and then release it that is not done with catch and kill. The experience of the fish is the same up until the point it is released! Then it is given a 90%+ chance of survival! Ninety percent or better that it will spawn and enhance the fish stock. Ninety percent or better that it will do the fishy things that make a fishes life worth while. That make our sport worth while. If we cave in to the hysterical and illogical forces that would restrict the catching and killing of fish to force of law and the chance of lottery we will strip the sport of its essence. We will  be able to fish so seldom that most will hang their rods in shame and pursue other pastimes. For those that do continue to fish the mystery of fishing will be replaced by the certainty of a dead fish or two and a modest meal. Without catch and release fishing as we have come to know it will not stand and will pass into the oblivion of archaic practice.

– TimW Halfordian Golfer

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – While exploring a new stretch of a local smallmouth river (Flat R., MI, near Greenville), I came upon a real shallow stretch of water. Depths ranged from inches to about two feet.  The bass were very small and spooky. The last straw came when a group of wild canoeists (canoers?) paddled through the area I was fishing.  They were loud and obviously drunk (it seems to be a local ordinance that a canoe must have at least one six pack of Busch to be considered legal).  Discouraged, I strung up and started to walk back to shore and the truck. And damn near stepped on a sucker about 14" long!  I froze while he continued to slowly move along the bottom.  Then I realized that there were about thirty or forty of them moving together.  They didn’t spook because of me but they knew enough to avoid me. Well, I hadn’t caught much in the way of fish so I figured, hell, it’s swimming and has fins so I’ll try for it.  I tossed out almost everything I had for about an hour.  Dries, streamers, nymphs, attractors, salmon eggs left over from last fall, everything.  The only action I got was when I lined one of them and he moved a little faster than usual. Now the question: Exactly what do these fish eat and what flies imitate it?  I prefer bass and trout, enjoy panfish and the occassional pike but I’ve never cast for suckers or carp.  I’m not an expert flyfisherman but I can generally put it where I want it.  What’s needed to catch those fish!? Thanks, Brian "Frustrated but Still up to the Challenge" Austin Brian Austin The desperate never believe the obvious

Brian, I have caught many suckers fishing for trout, almost always on nymphs.                                 Mark Faulkner

Response:

Check the July/August issue of American Angler magazine for some tips on fly fishing for suckers. John Likakis

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – While exploring a new stretch of a local smallmouth river (Flat R., MI, near Greenville), I came upon a real shallow stretch of water. Depths ranged from inches to about two feet.  The bass were very small and spooky. The last straw came when a group of wild canoeists (canoers?) paddled through the area I was fishing.  They were loud and obviously drunk (it seems to be a local ordinance that a canoe must have at least one six pack of Busch to be considered legal).  Discouraged, I strung up and started to walk back to shore and the truck. And damn near stepped on a sucker about 14" long!  I froze while he continued to slowly move along the bottom.  Then I realized that there were about thirty or forty of them moving together.  They didn’t spook because of me but they knew enough to avoid me. Well, I hadn’t caught much in the way of fish so I figured, hell, it’s swimming and has fins so I’ll try for it.  I tossed out almost everything I had for about an hour.  Dries, streamers, nymphs, attractors, salmon eggs left over from last fall, everything.  The only action I got was when I lined one of them and he moved a little faster than usual. Now the question: Exactly what do these fish eat and what flies imitate it?  I prefer bass and trout, enjoy panfish and the occassional pike but I’ve never cast for suckers or carp.  I’m not an expert flyfisherman but I can generally put it where I want it.  What’s needed to catch those fish!? Thanks, Brian "Frustrated but Still up to the Challenge" Austin Brian Austin The desperate never believe the obvious

much real help.  I have caught suckers a number of times (fair hooked) and on one occasion in the Kakisa River in the NWT, thought I had hooked up with a world record grayling. The fly was a Golden Stone but the kicker is that the water was quite turbid. Because suckers feed off the bottom it is unlikely in clear water with any velocity that you will have much chance. Small nymphs right on the bottom in rather slow moving water will fare better. Carp are another story altogether, they will take a moving fly.

Response:

While exploring a new stretch of a local smallmouth river (Flat R., MI, near Greenville), I came upon a real shallow stretch of water. Depths ranged from inches to about two feet.  The bass were very small and spooky. The last straw came when a group of wild canoeists (canoers?) paddled through the area I was fishing.  They were loud and obviously drunk (it seems to be a local ordinance that a canoe must have at least one six pack of Busch to be considered legal).  Discouraged, I strung up and started to walk back to shore and the truck. And damn near stepped on a sucker about 14" long!  I froze while he continued to slowly move along the bottom.  Then I realized that there were about thirty or forty of them moving together.  They didn’t spook because of me but they knew enough to avoid me. Well, I hadn’t caught much in the way of fish so I figured, hell, it’s swimming and has fins so I’ll try for it.  I tossed out almost everything I had for about an hour.  Dries, streamers, nymphs, attractors, salmon eggs left over from last fall, everything.  The only action I got was when I lined one of them and he moved a little faster than usual. Now the question: Exactly what do these fish eat and what flies imitate it?  I prefer bass and trout, enjoy panfish and the occassional pike but I’ve never cast for suckers or carp.  I’m not an expert flyfisherman but I can generally put it where I want it.  What’s needed to catch those fish!? Thanks, Brian "Frustrated but Still up to the Challenge" Austin Brian Austin The desperate never believe the obvious

Response:

. . . And damn near stepped on a sucker about 14" long!  I froze while he continued to slowly move along the bottom.  Then I realized that there were about thirty or forty of them moving together.  They didn’t spook because of me but they knew enough to avoid me. Well, I hadn’t caught much in the way of fish so I figured, hell, it’s swimming and has fins so I’ll try for it.  I tossed out almost everything I had for about an hour.  Dries, streamers, nymphs, attractors, salmon eggs left over from last fall, everything.  The only action I got was when I lined one of them and he moved a little . . . Exactly what do these fish eat and what flies imitate it?  I prefer

Unlike carp, suckers appear to be exclusively bottom feeders.  Their underslung mouths do not encourage them to take anything not actually resting on the bottom: and their digestions probably absorb anything from algae to big insects e.g. stoneflies.  They seem especially fond of worms, which hints they may scent food. A northern species of sucker called the Northern Redhorse is a beautiful fish (red fins) that runs to 30 inches and could break most fly tippets. Because so unafraid of predators, they can be caught on big nymphs if you can manage a dead drift within one inch of the bottom.  Dead drift (no skidding sideways) is ultra difficult on tippets strong enough to land a big one. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

Response:

… snip stuff preliminary to trying to catch suckers … Now the question: Exactly what do these fish eat and what flies imitate it?  I prefer bass and trout, enjoy panfish and the occassional pike but I’ve never cast for suckers or carp.  I’m not an expert flyfisherman but I can generally put it where I want it.  What’s needed to catch those fish!? Thanks, Brian "Frustrated but Still up to the Challenge" Austin

I am no expert, so have several grains of salt handy, but I believe that suckers determine what is food primarily by the smell of it, whereas bass and trout are sight hunters, determining what is food primarily by what it looks like (I think pike fall into this group as well).  Anyway, because a fly smells like a lump of feathers, fur, and steel, I would guess that you would have limited success with them.   Maybe if you smear that wet fly real well with extract of rotted fish… FWIW, etc. tq

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – While exploring a new stretch of a local smallmouth river (Flat R., MI, near Greenville), I came upon a real shallow stretch of water. Depths ranged from inches to about two feet.  The bass were very small and spooky. The last straw came when a group of wild canoeists (canoers?) paddled through the area I was fishing.  They were loud and obviously drunk (it seems to be a local ordinance that a canoe must have at least one six pack of Busch to be considered legal).  Discouraged, I strung up and started to walk back to shore and the truck. And damn near stepped on a sucker about 14" long!  I froze while he continued to slowly move along the bottom.  Then I realized that there were about thirty or forty of them moving together.  They didn’t spook because of me but they knew enough to avoid me. Well, I hadn’t caught much in the way of fish so I figured, hell, it’s swimming and has fins so I’ll try for it.  I tossed out almost everything I had for about an hour.  Dries, streamers, nymphs, attractors, salmon eggs left over from last fall, everything.  The only action I got was when I lined one of them and he moved a little faster than usual. Now the question: Exactly what do these fish eat and what flies imitate it?  I prefer bass and trout, enjoy panfish and the occassional pike but I’ve never cast for suckers or carp.  I’m not an expert flyfisherman but I can generally put it where I want it.  What’s needed to catch those fish!? Thanks, Brian "Frustrated but Still up to the Challenge" Austin Brian Austin The desperate never believe the obvious

Dear "Frustrated but Still up to the Challenge": When I began fly fishing at the late old age of 24, I apprenticed under the tutelage of a fine old fly fishing gentleman who gave me the real inside skinny on fly fishing and fly selection. The only cast you will ever need is the roll cast and the only fly that will work in such a situation is a #4 Hair Wing Royal Coachman Streamer tied on a Mustad 9575. His reasoning: that the Limerick bend and exaggerated barb of that particular Mustad hook does a superior job of holding the bait. Bait: His enticement of choice was the lowly earth worm, but in your case I would heartlily recommend thin strips of calf’s liver which have aged several weeks or months until dark green (the back of the fridge is perfect for the aging process) and amazingly pungent. Tackle: I recommend a 8-9′, 6 wt., fiberglass, Garcia "Conolon" rod with a "sturdy" action. Line: 6-7 wt. level line. Terminal Tackle: 2-3′ of 0X leader material tied to the line with a double overhand knot. You will need weight to get it to the feeding depth (bottom), so about 1/4 oz. of split shot should do it (remember to use "non-lead" split shot-for the environment you know). Method: Using 6" forceps attach the liver to the aforementioned fly, impaling it twice over the point and barb, douse with a very generous squirt of "Easy Cheez" (my favorite is the "Swiss Flavor"). Simply "Chuck & Duck", quartering upstream, directly into the feeding lane. As the fly approaches the fish, should he not notice the fly (some suckers suffer from "Squirreling Disease" which affects their sight and smell), simply yank the rod 2-3′ upward in the "Field and Stream" position and drive the fly into it’s snout (this is referred to as the "induced take"). Landing the Fish: After a spectacular fight and amazing display of water acrobatics (hauling it in), I implore you to practice "catch and release" fishing, whereby you "release" the fish as far as you can into the woods (ALWAYS be sure to bring "flushable" baby wipes for removing the sucker’s protective slime from your hands and waders after a "catch and release"). This is the option of choice for the true sportsman. Unless of course there happen to be spectators nearby who have emmigrated from country whose vast culinary heritage has bestowed up them a deeper appreciation for such a delicacy. In these cases, I salute their superior senses of taste and smell and it is my practice to reward them with a gift of the fish. Cooking Methods (Once in a while ALL true sportsman will kill a fish to eat): Refer to Schweibert’s "Trout" as many good recipes. adaptable to the tasty sucker, therein can be found. This section of the book alone is makes the purchase of this fine work a justifiable expense. Other great fish cookbooks have been written by LaFontaine and Borger and can be found in better fly shops everywhere. Tight Lines!! Todd L. McCagg "Dry Fly… Schmy Fly!"

Response:

Question:

I have been fly fishing for about 14 years now and unfortunately live in southern California.  When I can’t get to the Eastern Sierra, Idaho or Montana I’m forced to try our sometimes barrren offerings here.   My question is this …… without revealing too much, does anyone out there have any experience on waters other than the W.F San Gabriel, Deep Creek, Bear Creek, E.F San Gabriel etc….. If so please reply to: Thanks

Response:

I have been fly fishing for about 14 years now and unfortunately live in southern California.  When I can’t get to the Eastern Sierra, Idaho or Montana I’m forced to try our sometimes barrren offerings here.   My question is this …… without revealing too much, does anyone out there have any experience on waters other than the W.F San Gabriel, Deep Creek, Bear Creek, E.F San Gabriel etc….. If so please reply to: Thanks

How about Sespe Creek? For details email me at: Darryl

Response:

writes: To: Motorcty Have fished in King Harbor for Bonita and Mackeral. Very exciting, hard fighting fish. Rent skiff from Rocky Harbor Marina/Redondo Beach. They sell flies etc. Costs about $20.00 per half day. You need a 7/8/9 rod with sinking line like Teeny 200. Guys at Marriotts Fly Shop in L.A. know all about this.Good Luck. AK100.aol.com

Response: