Question:

My joke was that "when you own your own business, they can’t tell you when to go home, you can work all night". Actually, having your own business can be a great life if you enjoy the good parts of it. Some people are so talented that they can have a business ( or two) and it is no big deal for them, that is not me. If someone out there is thinking of starting their own business, just be sure first and do some research, but don’t get scared off. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Tim & Bill, A fellow who owned his own business told me that there was both bad and good involved.  You only had to work half days, but you could choose which 12 hours you wanted to be in.  He also mentioned that most self employed folks have a prick for a boss. Crusty You were caught . . . being smart. How long have you owned the store? How long was it after you started the biz before you finally  got the store and staff in the shape required to allow you could take a few days off? I’ll bet you’ve paid more than enough dues to earn a few days off here and there. I watched my father-in-law work 7 days a week for a long time in his own business before he was able to leave it for a day or two once in a while. Then, when times got tough again, he had to step right back into the 7 day a week routine again. Bill, take the rest of the day off — you earned it! Tim — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com You would need to have some money and  realize that you are going to put in some very long hours. Not a good job for someone who likes to fly fish. This job is not about going fly fishing all the time. Well Bill, let me see…How many times have I driven/flown from the Portland Oregon area to Sacramento?  By golly, I believe it has been 6 in the last 2 years.  How many times have I stopped into your fly shop to meet you? By golly, I believe it has been 6.  How many times have you been in? My math’s not good, what is 6 minus 6?  :) Crusty

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Tim & Bill, A fellow who owned his own business told me that there was both bad and good involved.  You only had to work half days, but you could choose which 12 hours you wanted to be in.  He also mentioned that most self employed folks have a prick for a boss. Crusty

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You were caught . . . being smart. How long have you owned the store? How long was it after you started the biz before you finally  got the store and staff in the shape required to allow you could take a few days off? I’ll bet you’ve paid more than enough dues to earn a few days off here and there. I watched my father-in-law work 7 days a week for a long time in his own business before he was able to leave it for a day or two once in a while. Then, when times got tough again, he had to step right back into the 7 day a week routine again. Bill, take the rest of the day off — you earned it! Tim — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com You would need to have some money and  realize that you are going to put in some very long hours. Not a good job for someone who likes to fly fish. This job is not about going fly fishing all the time. Well Bill, let me see…How many times have I driven/flown from the Portland Oregon area to Sacramento?  By golly, I believe it has been 6 in the last 2 years.  How many times have I stopped into your fly shop to meet you? By golly, I believe it has been 6.  How many times have you been in?  My math’s not good, what is 6 minus 6?  :) Crusty

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You were caught . . . being smart. How long have you owned the store? How long was it after you started the biz before you finally  got the store and staff in the shape required to allow you could take a few days off? I’ll bet you’ve paid more than enough dues to earn a few days off here and there. I watched my father-in-law work 7 days a week for a long time in his own business before he was able to leave it for a day or two once in a while. Then, when times got tough again, he had to step right back into the 7 day a week routine again. Bill, take the rest of the day off — you earned it! Tim

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com You would need to have some money and  realize that you are going to put in some very long hours. Not a good job for someone who likes to fly fish. This job is not about going fly fishing all the time. Well Bill, let me see…How many times have I driven/flown from the Portland Oregon area to Sacramento?  By golly, I believe it has been 6 in the last 2 years.  How many times have I stopped into your fly shop to meet you? By golly, I believe it has been 6.  How many times have you been in?  My math’s not good, what is 6 minus 6?  :) Crusty

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Greg, If I’m not mistaken, the Yankee Flyshop was the scene of a tragedy last August when an employee shot to death the shop’s owner.  I remember hearing about this when it happened- I think the employee even lived in the apartment above the store. Dave

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— Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You would need to have some money and  realize that you are going to put in some very long hours. Not a good job for someone who likes to fly fish. This job is not about going fly fishing all the time. Well Bill, let me see…How many times have I driven/flown from the Portland Oregon area to Sacramento?  By golly, I believe it has been 6 in the last 2 years.  How many times have I stopped into your fly shop to meet you?  By golly, I believe it has been 6.  How many times have you been in?  My math’s not good, what is 6 minus 6?  :) Crusty

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"Fortenberry Fly Fishing Shoppe"

Hey, Wayno and I could probably commit  a couple of hundred bucks to the project – in lieu of betting with Forty on Illinois games.  Sumbitch psychs me out every time.  <g   Harry How ’bout some Scotch on next fall?  Oskii wa wa!!

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You would need to have some money and  realize that you are going to put in some very long hours. Not a good job for someone who likes to fly fish. This job is not about going fly fishing all the time.

Well Bill, let me see…How many times have I driven/flown from the Portland Oregon area to Sacramento?  By golly, I believe it has been 6 in the last 2 years.  How many times have I stopped into your fly shop to meet you?  By golly, I believe it has been 6.  How many times have you been in?  My math’s not good, what is 6 minus 6?  :) Crusty

Response:

  Posted By: yankeeflyshop Wednesday, April 3, 2002 at 07:07:47 Remote Address: 152.163.194.186 Body of Message: Established Fly Shop in Pulaski,NY on the salmon river for sale.Building includes 2 store fronts 1 side terminal tackle and 1 side fly shop.Both fully stocked –Turn Key operation –2 apartments upstairs 1 2 bedroom and 1 one bedroom.terminal tackle side acn be shut down and rented for 400 a month and 2 bedroom could be rented for 375-400 per month.Run a fly shop with high sales and live upstairs.Asking 145K –Negotiable –Serious inquires Only

FORTENBERRY!!  This is for you!  PERFECT! Okay guys, who’s going to finance him on this project? Is that you LaCourse? Yah.  Sure. George Gehrke  Voting for: "Fortenberry Fly Fishing Shoppe"

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If you like to fly fish, don’t get your own small business.

Never a truer word spoken, Bill! Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

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Not a good job for someone who likes to fly fish. This job is not about going fly fishing all the time.

It helps a great deal to be married to an organizational genius. This is a job for someone that enjoys helping others and talking about fly fishing a lot. This job is taking care of the needs of those who have it figured out well enough so they can go fly fishing. If you like to fly fish, don’t get your own small business.

You seem to have done rather well with it, Bill. You flyfish more, in more exotic locations, than anyone else I know. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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Hi All, I guess this is a destination fly shop? For the right person/persons this could be a great life. If it included a retail buildings, inventory, fixtures and living space it sounds interesting. You would need to have some money and  realize that you are going to put in some very long hours. Not a good job for someone who likes to fly fish. This job is not about going fly fishing all the time. This is a job for someone that enjoys helping others and talking about fly fishing a lot. This job is taking care of the needs of those who have it figured out well enough so they can go fly fishing. If you like to fly fish, don’t get your own small business. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  Someone recently posted questions about starting up  a fly shop.  The following was on the "Steelhead Site" Posted By: yankeeflyshop Wednesday, April 3, 2002 at 07:07:47 Remote Address: 152.163.194.186 Body of Message: Established Fly Shop in Pulaski,NY on the salmon river for sale.Building includes 2 store fronts 1 side terminal tackle and 1 side fly shop.Both fully stocked –Turn Key operation –2 apartments upstairs 1 2 bedroom and 1 one bedroom.terminal tackle side acn be shut down and rented for 400 a month and 2 bedroom could be rented for 375-400 per month.Run a fly shop with high sales and live upstairs.Asking 145K –Negotiable –Serious inquires Only

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Question:

Yesterday afternoon I wondered down the street to a pier on Lake Washington to test cast my new 3wt rod and reel. I didn’t intend to catch anything and low and behold, I didn’t. Had a great time casting the new rod though. As I was packing up to leave three guys joined me on the pier set up to baitcast for perch. It didn’t take them 1 cast a piece before they were reeling in 5-8 inch perch from approximately 35 feet down. They were using worms and chopped perch meat. My question for the group: How would you go about catching perch on a fly rod off a pier? I have a 3wt, floating line with sink shot, or a 5wt with sink tip. What flies would you recommend? Thanks for the info. Ryan

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Yesterday afternoon I wondered down the street to a pier on Lake Washington to test cast my new 3wt rod and reel. I didn’t intend to catch anything and low and behold, I didn’t. Had a great time casting the new rod though. As I was packing up to leave three guys joined me on the pier set up to baitcast for perch. It didn’t take them 1 cast a piece before they were reeling in 5-8 inch perch from approximately 35 feet down.

DAMN!  That’s some fine fishin’ – catchin’ without even casting….<G They were using worms and chopped perch meat.

And if you wanted perch, may I ask why you didn’t do what they were doing? My question for the group: How would you go about catching perch on a fly rod off a pier? I have a 3wt, floating line with sink shot, or a 5wt with sink tip. What flies would you recommend?

Ones that look and smell like worms and chopped perch meat.   Seriously (and yes, I do mean this seriously), why bother, if the goal is catching those perch?  If the goal is simply experimenting to see if it can be done, then, yes, it can, but don’t confuse it with FF’ing (in the "traditional" sense).  It seems if you’re interested in catching perch, you’ve seen what works (and works remarkably well) for catching them.  I guess I don’t understand the desire to catch anything and everything on a fly rod.  Some things just don’t really lend themselves to "flyfishing" (as one normally thinks of FF’ing, and yes, I realize one can rig up something), and IMO, fishing that deep is one of them.  By the time you get rigged, you’re going to essentially combining bait-casting with a fly rod.   I suppose there’s nothing "wrong" with that, but why not just bait-cast with bait-casting gear, or if one is some kind of FF’ing-gear-only snot, just don’t fish for those things and live with the fact that if you’re gonna be a snot, you lose out. To me, it’s sorta like asking, "I saw a Porsche 996 racing on TV.  I have a Suburban/Camry/Ford sedan/Volvo station wagon/(some other unsuited vehicle).  Could I race like that?   Can I do something to my vehicle to make it work?"   Yeah, probably.  But again, why? (assuming the goal is racing, and not converting vehicles)  You can take out a screw with a butter knife and butter toast with a screwdriver, too, but why not just use the most appropriate and best-suited tool(s) for the task at hand? Thanks for the info.

Pretty sure it’s not the info you wanted, but you’re welcome. TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Ryan

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Well, if my geometry is right your going to have to cast out 53 feet of line to be at a 35 foot depth 35 feet from where you’re standing. Full sinking line? I’d try a clouser or better yet, a pearl chenille bead/cone head wooly buger. john

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Use the 5 wt rod and fish with little streamers. For example in summer at dog days a freind of mine uses a fly called Jule Trae and a sink tip. He always catches some perch. Good luck and tight lines Wim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yesterday afternoon I wondered down the street to a pier on Lake Washington to test cast my new 3wt rod and reel. I didn’t intend to catch anything and low and behold, I didn’t. Had a great time casting the new rod though. As I was packing up to leave three guys joined me on the pier set up to baitcast for perch. It didn’t take them 1 cast a piece before they were reeling in 5-8 inch perch from approximately 35 feet down. They were using worms and chopped perch meat. My question for the group: How would you go about catching perch on a fly rod off a pier? I have a 3wt, floating line with sink shot, or a 5wt with sink tip. What flies would you recommend? Thanks for the info. Ryan

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R- Points well taken. Thanks, Ryan -Snip-

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You can take out a screw with a butter knife and butter toast with a screwdriver, too, but why not just use the most appropriate and best-suited tool(s) for

Splendid. And thank you. You’ve covered more than fishing here. Sometimes it’s easy to forget the focus of the job at hand. Drew (with a callused spot on my forehead)

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I don’t know rdean may have somethin’ here.  I have several heavy weight flyrods, but perching on them just doesn’t sound like a good idea. Op

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You can take out a screw with a butter knife and butter toast with a screwdriver, too, but why not just use the most appropriate and best-suited tool(s) for Splendid. And thank you. You’ve covered more than fishing here. Sometimes it’s easy to forget the focus of the job at hand. Drew (with a callused spot on my forehead)

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yesterday afternoon I wondered down the street to a pier on Lake Washington to test cast my new 3wt rod and reel. I didn’t intend to catch anything and low and behold, I didn’t. Had a great time casting the new rod though. As I was packing up to leave three guys joined me on the pier set up to baitcast for perch. It didn’t take them 1 cast a piece before they were reeling in 5-8 inch perch from approximately 35 feet down. They were using worms and chopped perch meat. My question for the group: How would you go about catching perch on a fly rod off a pier? I have a 3wt, floating line with sink shot, or a 5wt with sink tip. What flies would you recommend? Thanks for the info. Ryan

In that location, worm dunking seems to be your only choice.  However, I’ve caught plenty of perch in the shallows using a two weight and beadhead nymphs.  They take very gently so sight fishing to them in clear water is best.  Small streamers should work too. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

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—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– Hash: SHA1 I love to flyfish, but there’s a hell of a lot to be said for all kinds of fishing and I am of the personal opinion that we get dogmatic about using the flyrod even at times when it is simply not practical. I don’t guess whether you mean using fly rods on the B.A.S.S. pro tour?

Me feeling is that the fly rod might be the very best tool for the job under most conditions when bass are shallow. When bass are deep, we especially should not fish C&R for them, so this isn’t much of a quandary…. TBone

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I love to flyfish, but there’s a hell of a lot to be said for all kinds of fishing and I am of the personal opinion that we get dogmatic about using the flyrod even at times when it is simply not practical. We should not close our eyes to all other kinds of fishing, IMO. The perch are biting here, at Waneka, and I have been out with nightcrawlers and my dachsund Spork for three weekends in a row and we’ve been having a ball.

Um, are you sure Spork likes going out and having a ball with you and nightcrawlers?  If PETA (or, possibly, the Colorado State Police) finds out, you’re in BIG trouble…are you sure it isn’t illegal in Colorado, as it is in a number of the other several States… Oh, wait…did you mean you were FISHING with Spork?  Well, he must be about gone by now, and frankly, that’s pretty mean just for a few perch.  Whoda thunk dachshund were below perch on the food chain….

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<lake washington experiment snipped Drive over to Green Lake and fish dry flies off the pier for landlocked salmon instead. Bring a radio and listen to Niehaus do the Mariners playoff games. Ogle the joggers. Bring a bag of Tim’s Cajun chips. Have an Oberto Cocktail Pep. Bring a buncha BWOs. Watch out for the goose poop. – sid sometimes missing seattle

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…….Bring a bag of Tim’s Cajun chips…….

I knew it.  I just KNEW it!  First it’s fish, then it’s Dachshunds, and now Cajuns.  That’s just wrong!    :( Wolfgang

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…….Bring a bag of Tim’s Cajun chips……. I knew it.  I just KNEW it!  First it’s fish, then it’s Dachshunds, and now Cajuns.  That’s just wrong!    :( Wolfgang

It’s even worse. It is unethical. Herman

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I love to flyfish, but there’s a hell of a lot to be said for all kinds of fishing and I am of the personal opinion that we get dogmatic about using the flyrod even at times when it is simply not practical. We should not close our eyes to all other kinds of fishing, IMO. The perch are biting here, at Waneka, and I have been out with nightcrawlers and my dachsund Spork for three weekends in a row and we’ve been having a ball. Your pal, — TBone

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yesterday afternoon I wondered down the street to a pier on Lake Washington to test cast my new 3wt rod and reel. I didn’t intend to catch anything and low and behold, I didn’t. Had a great time casting the new rod though. As I was packing up to leave three guys joined me on the pier set up to baitcast for perch. It didn’t take them 1 cast a piece before they were reeling in 5-8 inch perch from approximately 35 feet down. They were using worms and chopped perch meat. My question for the group: How would you go about catching perch on a fly rod off a pier? I have a 3wt, floating line with sink shot, or a 5wt with sink tip. What flies would you recommend? Thanks for the info. Ryan

Response:

I love to flyfish, but there’s a hell of a lot to be said for all kinds of fishing and I am of the personal opinion that we get dogmatic about using the flyrod even at times when it is simply not practical. We should not close our eyes to all other kinds of fishing, IMO.

Can’t argue that, but then there’s always the challenge of doing something the hard way The perch are biting here, at Waneka, and I have been out with nightcrawlers and my dachsund Spork for three weekends in a row and we’ve been having a ball.

"Spork", eh? Perfect. /daytripper (I shoulda known

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I knew it.  I just KNEW it!  First it’s fish, then it’s Dachshunds, and now Cajuns.  That’s just wrong!    :(

Dang, I missed it again!  What’s wrong with Dachshunds?

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I knew it.  I just KNEW it!  First it’s fish, then it’s Dachshunds, and now Cajuns.  That’s just wrong!    :( Dang, I missed it again!  What’s wrong with Dachshunds?

Well, aside from a reputed susceptibility to back problems and the usual unsavory canine hygiene practices, not a thing that I can think of.  It’s the Cajuns that stick in my craw. Wolfgang

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  It’s the Cajuns that stick in my craw.

Try cutting them up into smaller pieces, and chewing them a little longer. hth, Kevin, hoping you didn’t misspell "cojones"

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[snip] Well, aside from a reputed susceptibility to back problems and the usual unsavory canine hygiene practices, not a thing that I can think of.  It’s the Cajuns that stick in my craw. Wolfgang

1. Let me report that you may remove the word "reputed" from the above.  I have 2 Dachshunds, 1 with a "slipped disc" that has caused her to lose partial movement in her rear legs. 2. What kind of ‘unsavory canine hygience practices’ could you be referring to?  You mean when they drag all sorts of dead (either that they’ve killed, or just found) rodents to my door?  You mean when they kill a rat and decide to *eat* half of it, and bring me the legs (you know those little bones just irritate their gums)?  You mean smelling around for dog crap and then eating it (no, it never happens, really) if it really smells ‘good’? You mean…well, I think I get the picture… Rob p.s. got a craw stuck in my teeth at the last Cajun festival..:)

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…..got a craw stuck in my teeth at the last Cajun festival..:)

Hm….this could lead to all sorts of recursive ruminations. Wolfgang where’s max smart when you really need him?

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—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– Hash: SHA1 I love to flyfish, but there’s a hell of a lot to be said for all kinds of fishing and I am of the personal opinion that we get dogmatic about using the flyrod even at times when it is simply not practical.

I don’t guess whether you mean using fly rods on the B.A.S.S. pro tour? – — "Armchair warriors often fail, and we’ve been  poisoned by these fairy tales" -Don Henley —–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—– Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE7zSGtrpli/675/DERAlGdAKCDXQHl4/+d80An8f3CJfvXyzMdmACeNJy3 7Gq+de7flkgrCo01m39YZXA= =Ropa —–END PGP SIGNATURE—–

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The perch are biting here, at Waneka, and I have been out with nightcrawlers and my dachsund Spork for three weekends in a row and we’ve been having a ball.

Sure you can eat perch with a dachshund Spork, but why not use the right tool for the job?

Response:

I don’t know rdean may have somethin’ here.  I have several heavy weight flyrods, but perching on them just doesn’t sound like a good idea. Op

Not in ten feet of water.. but they are a lot of fun to fish for in the shallows! Herman

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yesterday afternoon I wondered down the street to a pier on Lake Washington to test cast my new 3wt rod and reel. I didn’t intend to catch anything and low and behold, I didn’t. Had a great time casting the new rod though. As I was packing up to leave three guys joined me on the pier set up to baitcast for perch. It didn’t take them 1 cast a piece before they were reeling in 5-8 inch perch from approximately 35 feet down. They were using worms and chopped perch meat. My question for the group: How would you go about catching perch on a fly rod off a pier? I have a 3wt, floating line with sink shot, or a 5wt with sink tip. What flies would you recommend? Thanks for the info.

well, as others have said, it might be tough reaching where the conventional anglers were fishing with light tackle… but in lake washington there are places to catch them in shallower water. when i was a kid, i was a perch killing maniac at lake washington.  i fished the wooden bridges at the walking trails near the arboreum (you can see them driving the 520 bridge).  i fished small jigs tipped with a chunk of worm, but i don’t doubt that a small white wooley bugger with a conehead, beadhead, or weighted eyes would work.  i did best around some of the sunken timber near the edges…. but it has been awhile.  and i also did best in july and august. give it a shot, and there’s nothing like fishing next to a bridge jammed with rush hour traffic (which now is almost all day). chris

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I wouldn’t fish for them with a fly rod in that situation.  5 weight with a sink tip probably wouldn’t reach them.  Maybe with a Clouser Minnow. In shallow water I’ve caught lots of perch that size with nymphs and small streamers (Clousers, marabou Thundercreeks).  And perch more than twice that size on the streamers.  Fun with a 3 weight. Glenn << My question for the group: How would you go about catching perch on a fly rod off a pier? I have a 3wt, floating line with sink shot, or a 5wt with sink tip. What flies would you recommend? << Ryan GKT

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Question:

Check out this link for paddlefish info: http://fishing.miningco.com/recreation/fishing/cs/paddlefshsturgeon/i… m V.B. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Looking into doing some paddflishing in the glendive, MT area and wonder if anyone can give some tips.  I have checked the web site that offers ideas about tackle and equipment, just wonder the method of snagging or how one goes about it, Is this done from shore mostly? Does one cast and retrieve ? Depth of water? Time of Day?  Season as in early or late? Things of this nature. Would be much appreciated.  Thank you.  Dave

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Looking into doing some paddflishing in the glendive, MT area and wonder if anyone can give some tips.  I have checked the web site that offers ideas about tackle and equipment, just wonder the method of snagging or how one goes about it, Is this done from shore mostly? Does one cast and retrieve ? Depth of water? Time of Day?  Season as in early or late? Things of this nature. Would be much appreciated.  Thank you.  Dave

I am more familiar with a couple of areas north of Glendive.  Intake is about 35 mile north and the Confluence of the Yellowstone and Missouri is farther yet (N. Dakota fishing license required there). Also near the bridge at Sidney MT.  {If they ever give the state of Montana an enema, Sidney is where they will stick the hose.  Hell, even the birds fly over Sidney upside-down because there isn’t anything there worth shittin on.}  The fishing is done from shore. You cast out so far that you have to call the Tower for Clearance to Launch first, then "whip" your rod back, stop, retrieve the slack and repeat.  Water depth is anywhere from 2 to 15-20 feet.  Time of day doesn’t really matter.  I am not sure on when the legal season starts, but I was in that area during the last week of May last year, and fish were being caught!  I lived in that part of the country during the 80s (drove tanker trucks in the oil patch), and paddlefishing was the first riverside party of the year.  In fact, it always seemed like most of the people that were at Intake, were there more for the party than fishing.  Whatever you do, DO NOT get caught doing anything illegal, including having an un-tagged fish in your possession.  The local Judge is an avid outdoorsman and throws the book at game violations….No, I never had to appear in his court for anything – he is a good friend of mine and I know his attitude. — All fishermen are liars ‘cept you n me, and I’m starting to have doubts about you!

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Looking into doing some paddflishing in the glendive, MT area and wonder if anyone can give some tips.  I have checked the web site that offers ideas about tackle and equipment, just wonder the method of snagging or how one goes about it, Is this done from shore mostly? Does one cast and retrieve ? Depth of water? Time of Day?  Season as in early or late? Things of this nature. Would be much appreciated.  Thank you.  Dave

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Question:

I flew to Wyoming a couple of years ago and the ticketing agent told me I could not take my rod tube on board, You were flying to Wyoming…?  Why didn’t you just put it in the gun rack ?

Because the sheep were in the way. — -Wayne Trzyna                           Fight spam! Join CAUCE (Coalition  http://www.cs.colostate.edu/~trzyna    See http://www.cauce.org/

Response:

I flew to Wyoming a couple of years ago and the ticketing agent told me I could not take my rod tube on board,

You were flying to Wyoming…?  Why didn’t you just put it in the gun rack ? — TimW – Halfordian Golfer Guilt replaced the creel…

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I’m using a free ticket with Delta to go fishing and want to take two rods with me.  They sent a notice about restrictions for carry on luggage beginning last April 15 that will appear to prohibit fly rod tubes based on their size.  Has anyone had any recent experience, good or bad, with Delta?  Thanks much.

        nope; the last experience i had with delta was about thirty years ago at the sigma chi house at unc chapel hill.  never will forget the way she looked the day she left me.         a. wayne harrison

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writes: I flew to Montana on Delta last year. They let me put my rod in the closet. (Just don;t forget it when you get off!) Maybe it would be best to clear it with them ahead of time, but I really doubt that you’ll have a problem.    Steve Barnard

I flew to Wyoming a couple of years ago and the ticketing agent told me I could not take my rod tube on board, while my buddy at the next window down was told that it would be OK for him to take his tube as a carry on.  Both tubes were the same size, by the way. Brent

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I’m using a free ticket with Delta to go fishing and want to take two rods with me.  They sent a notice about restrictions for carry on luggage beginning last April 15 that will appear to prohibit fly rod tubes based on their size.  Has anyone had any recent experience, good or bad, with Delta?  Thanks much.

Tell ‘em they’re bombs….folkes seem to have no trouble getting them aboard. — TimW – Halfordian Golfer Guilt replaced the creel…

Response:

I’m using a free ticket with Delta to go fishing and want to take two rods with me.  They sent a notice about restrictions for carry on luggage beginning last April 15 that will appear to prohibit fly rod tubes based on their size.  Has anyone had any recent experience, good or bad, with Delta?  Thanks much.

I flew Delta last July.  They said I had to check my rod case because the aircraft was a small commuter type.  However, they did allow me to "wing check" it.  I carried it as far as the steps leading into the aircraft and an attendent took the rod case and put it in baggage area. When I got off the aircraft, the reverse took place.   Air Canada did not afford me the same courtesy on a connecting flight.   Dave LaCourse

Response:

I’m using a free ticket with Delta to go fishing and want to take two rods with me.  They sent a notice about restrictions for carry on luggage beginning last April 15 that will appear to prohibit fly rod tubes based on their size.  Has anyone had any recent experience, good or bad, with Delta?  Thanks much.

Delta’s been getting beat up on timely departures and arrivals so expect them to be less sympathetic than in the past. Pack your bags as if they will be checked. — Charlie…

Response:

I’m using a free ticket with Delta to go fishing and want to take two rods with me.  They sent a notice about restrictions for carry on luggage beginning last April 15 that will appear to prohibit fly rod tubes based on their size.  Has anyone had any recent experience, good or bad, with Delta?  Thanks much.

I flew to Montana on Delta last year. They let me put my rod in the closet. (Just don;t forget it when you get off!) Maybe it would be best to clear it with them ahead of time, but I really doubt that you’ll have a problem.         Steve Barnard

Response:

I’m using a free ticket with Delta to go fishing and want to take two rods with me.  They sent a notice about restrictions for carry on luggage beginning last April 15 that will appear to prohibit fly rod tubes based on their size.  Has anyone had any recent experience, good or bad, with Delta?  Thanks much.

Response:

Question:

Peter: I have the same rod and use TT 6/7. 80 feet overhead cast and 50 feet roll cast are easily made with this combination. Because of the continuous taper of TT, delicate presentation is also easily done. If you need a floating line, I would recommend TT 6/7. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I am new to fly-fishing.  I own a St. Croix Imperial 9′ 5/6 weight travel rod with a Colorado #2 Ross reel.  I wonder if my rod will work well with a 6WF line.  I am thinking about ordering the Cabela’s Prestige 6WF F/S VI (IPS = 6.5-7, with 10′ sinking tip) for shad fishing in California rivers.  I like to hear your opinion on this selection.  Please let me know if you would suggest another line or another setup for this purpose. I also wonder if I should begin learning fly-fishing with a 5 WF line or a 5 DT line.  I have seen a few postings here recommending novice caster learning on a DT line.  I wonder what the reasoning is behind it. BTW, I plan to do most of my fishing in Yosemite National Park. Thanks for all your help. Peter

– Shinji Unno                     Karaoke Party in Seattle, WA, USA? Also a steelhead fly fisher               http://www.sbkaraoke.com

Response:

Hi, I am new to fly-fishing.  I own a St. Croix Imperial 9′ 5/6 weight travel rod with a Colorado #2 Ross reel.  I wonder if my rod will work well with a 6WF line.  I am thinking about ordering the Cabela’s Prestige 6WF F/S VI (IPS = 6.5-7, with 10′ sinking tip) for shad fishing in California rivers.  I like to hear your opinion on this selection.  Please let me know if you would suggest another line or another setup for this purpose. I also wonder if I should begin learning fly-fishing with a 5 WF line or a 5 DT line.  I have seen a few postings here recommending novice caster learning on a DT line.  I wonder what the reasoning is behind it.   BTW, I plan to do most of my fishing in Yosemite National Park. Thanks for all your help. Peter

Response:

Question:

Please, The nickname is the only REQUIRED field (Which can be anything you want).  The rest of the fields are for Identification only and only if you WANT to put them in there. I hate spammers as much as the next guy and report every instance of unsolicited e-mail I receive. Hope this clears this up David. Rob Perry Michigan Ultralight Assoc. Webmaster – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There is a great chat room already setup just for ultralight aviators at http://mula.perrydice.com/chat.htm . Rob Perry Michigan Ultralight Assoc. Webmaster Why do you want real names and e-mail addresses? Why not just a nick? Do I smell spam? Regards, DAO

Response:

Message boards are great but, I think a chat room for UL flyers would be a great help, and fun. What do you think? There is a chat room for "Hunting and Fishing" why not UL’s? George

Response:

There is a great chat room already setup just for ultralight aviators at http://mula.perrydice.com/chat.htm . Rob Perry Michigan Ultralight Assoc. Webmaster

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Message boards are great but, I think a chat room for UL flyers would be a great help, and fun. What do you think? There is a chat room for "Hunting and Fishing" why not UL’s? George

Response:

Try this link. It’s Java type chat but there is also access using an IRC chat program. Seems like Wednesday and Thursday evenings are popular. Last time I was there I counted about 10 ultralighters chatting. http://www.mgge-inc.com/fly-ul/ — Brad Blackburn (replace "spur" with "net" to reply) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Message boards are great but, I think a chat room for UL flyers would be a great help, and fun. What do you think? There is a chat room for "Hunting and Fishing" why not UL’s? George

Response:

Only good if your browser is java equipped

Response:

Right!  Sorry, I shoulda mentioned that. Rob Perry Michigan Ultralight Assoc. Webmaster     Only good if your browser is java equipped

Response:

Thanks, I don’t have Java. Maybe I need to upgrade. George

Response:

there is http://ul-flyer.com/ewchat.html walt

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Message boards are great but, I think a chat room for UL flyers would be a great help, and fun. What do you think? There is a chat room for "Hunting and Fishing" why not UL’s? George

Response:

There is a great chat room already setup just for ultralight aviators at http://mula.perrydice.com/chat.htm . Rob Perry Michigan Ultralight Assoc. Webmaster

Why do you want real names and e-mail addresses? Why not just a nick? Do I smell spam? Regards, DAO

Response:

Question:

Sir, Go to my web page and click on Resources.  Once there click on Champ Charters and email Captain Paul.  He is a great guy and an awesome togue and salmon fisherman.  He will certainly be able to help you.  Good luck. James Ehlers Underhill, Vermont And yes lakers are very deep in August…downriggers are a must. Uncle Jammer’s Guide Service Vermont Fly Fishing, Hunting, River and Woodland Outings http://pobox.com/~uncle

Response:

every year i go to the northern maine woods to camp and fish. it has been three years and going again the first week in august. i have never even gotten a bite. i am from mas. and solely fish for bass which ifeel i am very good at. so im new to the lake fishing theres also salmon in maine lakes. i would appreciate any help or info on methods,time,weather on cathching them. this will be the first year that i will be using a downrigger in hopes it will work. not sure the proper depth but heard that

Response:

Question:

GRAND CANYON TRIP REPORT (a fictitious account)

 Nicely written/related.  Reading your account makes me yearn for the Canyon.  Hmmmm, wait 17 years, pay $700 plus in fees and risk the no-mercy permit system, or go now, avoid the inane bureaucracy and risk $3000-4000 Happy Boating, Chris Donohue WSU – Pullman, WA "I used up all my sick days, so I’m calling in dead."                                                         – Anonymous

Response:

GRAND CANYON TRIP REPORT (a fictitious account)

Great story;  what an adventure!  But, if the following is true: If one is to plan a clandestined run of the Canyon, best to do it during the off-season when not many people are likely to be encountered.  And of course, don’t get caught.  I hear the fine for running the Canyon without a permit is in the $3000-4000 range!!!   WOWWW!

why not just get a "cancellation permit" and run the river legal? Are there not plenty of open slots off season? — Chris

Response:

GRAND CANYON TRIP REPORT (a fictitious account)

Hummm!!! "Fictitious account"????  Sounds fishy to me.  A few months ago Rocky wants to know from this group how to avoid rangers with radios on the Grand and now this story??!!!?  :-)

Response:

| GRAND CANYON TRIP REPORT (a fictitious account) | | | Hummm!!! "Fictitious account"????  Sounds fishy to me.  A few months ago | Rocky wants to know from this group how to avoid rangers with radios on | the Grand and now this story??!!!?  :-) He was prob’ly just researchin’ the story just like any other fiction writer would. Of course, perhaps there was _other_ research involved in ensuring the story had dramatic impact and audience appeal with a feeling of truth. Let’s see what other tales Rocky comes up with. SYITP (see you in the pool) Ken

Response:

why not just get a "cancellation permit" and run the river legal? Are there not plenty of open slots off season? — Chris

Actually I tried calling over 40 times last fall and didn’t get a cancellation.  They can be had, but it’s getting tougher and tougher to get them.  I don’t think it’s any easier getting cancellations in winter than in other months, because they reserve so few for the off-season anyway. -Rocky

Response:

What would the probablity of success be? ;-

Response:

What would the probablity of success be? ;-

Probability best if you go November or December.  Good if you go January or February, or October.  Next time I hear Joe plans on going in October because there’s no motorized rafts permitted that month and the weather is still pretty warm (highs 80s).   -Rocky

Response:

: why not just get a "cancellation permit" and run the river legal? : Actually I tried calling over 40 times last fall and didn’t get a            ^ : cancellation. : -Rocky Ummm, don’t you mean ‘Joe’ called? Steve — Steve Cramer                     Test Scoring & Reporting Services      Sometimes you never can University of Georgia                    always tell what you Athens, GA 30602-5593                      least expect the most.

Response:

: why not just get a "cancellation permit" and run the river legal? : Actually I tried calling over 40 times last fall and didn’t get a           ^ : cancellation. : -Rocky Ummm, don’t you mean ‘Joe’ called? Steve —

Oh, NO, Rocky didn’t mean "I" as in the first person.  He meant "I" as in an *initial*.  Another initial that Joe uses is "G". Isn’t that right, Rocky? Jackie                                  _                        _   _        _   _                     \                      / /       / /                     \                        "          "                         `                                        ,sSSs,,                         )w/(       ,sSS..)/{)                       <<..       sSSS_v)/                      )<*      sSS[(_]___         o                                                 o                             \     o      o                                              \  o            o                                  `                                                    o           o               o                                                  o GASP! – A forum for Gulf (of Mexico) Area Sea Paddlers http://www.intelenet.net/clubs/gasp/

Response:

GRAND CANYON TRIP REPORT (a fictitious account)      The Grand Canyon is perhaps the finest river trip in the world.  A minimum of 225 miles must be traversed through the canyon to be able to put-in and take-out on roads.  The Colorado runs through the National Park in this area, and a permit is required.  It is a BIG DEAL.  Only approximately 350 private permits are issued per year.  If you put your name on the waiting list last year, you go behind 6000 other permit seekers.  That translates to 6000/350=17 YEARS before you get your permit!!!  Granted, for each permit you can have 20 people and stay in the canyon 14-30 days, but is there a place for the non-wealthy person that wants to go on a shorter trip, alone, or with only one or two others?  Should he/she just wait 17 years for such a permit, and then put to waste all those people spots and extra time that the permit allows?  For some, this is just too outrageous.  Better to become an outlaw and do the run without a permit.      Such was the attitude of one adventure seeker I know ("Joe").   Sometime in December, when a week could be taken off, the trip was planned.  Carefully -mind you.  Timing is critical.  No motorized craft are permitted in the canyon from September 15-December 15.  One doesn’t want a ranger speeding up behind you and catching you.  Such an event happened to me in Canyonlands National Park in 1994 when I was doing a solo trip from Loma to Hite through Cataract Canyon.  It would be nice to be able to locate rangers in the canyon to avoid any contact.  A CB radio was brought along.  At the South Rim, the rangers would not tell Joe what frequency they used.  All he got out of them was "the radios don’t work down in the canyon."  Perhaps they use special frequencies reserved for law enforcement people.  Hence the CB was not taken on the river.  How about put-ins?  Lees Ferry is the normal spot swarming with rangers, though Joe, having never done the Canyon before, didn’t know what the Lees Ferry area looked like.  Instead, he tried to put in 15 miles upstream at Glen Canyon Dam.  Upon arrival at Glen Canyon Dam, he noticed that there was no road down to the river there, and the walls are nearly vertical.  In the Dam visitor center, a kind woman informed Joe that there was a trail down to the river on river left just below the dam, but it was treacherous and takes about a half hour down.  Joe decided that this wasn’t the best idea, so decided to take his chances at Lees Ferry, perhaps launching at night when nobody could see.  Joy entered Joe’s heart when the lady informed him that they were releasing 13000-19000 cfs from the dam.  He had thought there would only be 8000 cfs in the river (as stated on the Colorado Flow Page).   More water = faster travel and funner rapids!      Off to Lees Ferry he went, arriving in the afternoon about 2 pm.   From the highway, a road several miles long leads down to the river at Lees Ferry.  It seemed terribly easy to get down to the river without anybody spotting him.  He settled on a spot by the Paria Riffle, just downstream of the Paria River, by some mobile home type areas, but right next to the water.  There was a nice large parking area and lots of shrubs/trees that the clandestined activitiy of loading the kayak could be accomplished at.  The normal put-in spot could be viewed about a half mile upstream.  The plan was to get everything out/off of the truck (the kayak as quickly as possible, since such a sight is a dead give-away), load up everything into the kayak, then drive back up to the little town of Marble Canyon and find somebody to drive the truck to near the take-out – Las Vegas.  Joe was thinking of finding a party of two or more going to Las Vegas, and having them leave his truck in the Excaliber (or Luxor) parking lot.  Joe would then return to the boat at dusk and launch.  At the takeout (Temple Bar on Lake Mead), he would get a lift into Las Vegas, drive back and pick up the kayak.  Such was the plan.  As he was loading the kayak, a car drove by and then down to the same spot Joe was at.  Very apprehensive at first, Joe hid everything that might give away his planned activity and approached the vehicle.   The Gods were in Joe’s favor!  The vehicle contained three foreigners – an Aussie, an Englishwoman, and an Israeli all in their 20s-early 30s.   Joe asked, "Sightseeing?" and so began a productive conversation.  The three were staying at the hostel in Page and just mosying around seeing whatever there was to see.  Just PERFECT!  Out of Joe’s mouth came the plan to run the river and the need for someone to drive his truck to Las Vegas.  He offered them $40 if they’d do it.  It turns out the Israeli, named Udi, actually was not with the other two, but was just bumming rides from people going around the country.  He had to get to LA in the next couple weeks to fly home.  After about a half hour of thought, Udi agreed to take the truck.  Joe told Udi he’d give him $60 if he went so far as to leave the truck at the take-out (Temple Bar on Lake Mead) instead of Las Vegas, and this he agreed to.  Joe planned 7 more days on the river, and told Udi, "you must have the truck at Temple Bar by dusk eight days from now."    So Joe took off into the wild, still anxious about a ranger spotting him in the first few miles.        Having launched around 3:30 pm the first day, not much distance could be made.  The days are short in December (10 hours of light), so every daylight hour is precious.  Passing the Navajo Bridge after several miles with no signs of rangers, Joe knew he was out of danger.   It grew dark after he had paddled 8 or 9 miles.  Badger Creek rapid was run in twilight.  The next four miles were quite exciting in the dark. Coming up on Soap Creek he noticed a couple lights.  Afraid it might be the law, he avoided contact with the campers, but paddled just past them as the Soap Creek rapid began, pulling over to the side to camp.   Paddling though a rapid such as Soap Creek was not smart in the dark – espially never having seen it before.  Quickly setting up his tent, he settled in for a fine meal of split-pea soup, bread, and cheese (to be had the next two nights as well), with hot chocolate to top it off.   Laying in the sleeping bag, he quickly fell asleep starting to read (around 8 pm).  In the night he heard what sounded like people walking around his tent.  Waking up at 4 am, he continued to read his recently purchased book by JW Powell, "The Exploration of the Colorado and Its Canyons".  In it he read about Powell’s group travelling through Marble Canyon and then reaching the Grand Canyon.  He also brought along "Cadillac Desert" which contained an abundance of information on the politics of water control in the West.        Before the first sign of light, Joe got up and stalked over to where the other campers were.  They must have hiked in, for there was no raft by the river.  And there was only one tent, so not very many people were there.  He wasn’t worried anymore.  He went back and started on a run up Soap Creek Canyon for almost an hour (getting up the canyon probably  2 miles or so before returning).  The water had dropped during the night – he’d be paddling on 13000 cfs today.  Joe went over to meet the camping couple, who were trying their luck at fishing.  He asked if they’d take some video of him going through Soap Creek Rapid, which they obliged him.  He was off at 9 am.   The boat he paddled was an old fiberglass Phoenix, something of a hybrid sea/whitewater kayak – probably about 90 gallons, 14 ft.  It was banged up from other rivers, and had been patched a year ago.  It leaked horribly, the outfitting was falling out (in particular a loose right hip pad), but it was fast.   Luckily Joe brought a sponge and bilge pump, which he had to use every half hour to remove the inch of water that accumulated on the bottom of the kayak.  Such a large boat is not great for playing, but since Joe wasn’t planning on much of that, the Phoenix was an ideal kayak for the journey.  If he had one, a nice sea kayak would have been preferred.   Paddling most of the time he was on the water, very good time was made on the journey.  The second day he made it to Nankoweap (about 42 miles from Soap Creek), passing House Rock Rapid, Stanton’s Cave, and the beautiful Vasey’s Paradise on the way.  Initially he had trouble finding Stanton’s Cave, looking up a gully that was actually just upstream of it.  Giving up after almost an hour of searching, he continued on paddling, only to spot the cave clearly from the river.  It is fenced off inside to help promote the BLACK Bat to roost in there once more.   In the side canyons above Nankoweap several deer were spotted among the mesquite bushes.  Around mile 40 a group of 5-6 rafts was passed (clearly a private party), though no contact was made.  At Nankoweap the guidebook states there is a long rapid (Grand Canyon class 3), but which is really not more than a class one.  Joe tried to camp at side canyons with fun hikes that he would do in the morning, and also ones with driftwood that he could build a small fire for warmth with.  Such was Nankoweap.  Fires are only permitted in the off-season (October through March), and all traces must be removed.  Joe didn’t take out the ashes (very minor amounts), but usually threw them in the river.  Of course Joe did pack out all solid human waste and trash.      The next morning he rose before dawn and started on the run/hike to see the springs a few miles up the canyon, and also the Indian ruins.   The stream here is perennial, with fresh, clear, cold water running down it.  It all originates up at the springs which are a good hike away.   The water seeps out of the ground in several spots up there, and there are many reeds growing around the springs.  Going fast, running much of

… read more »

Response:

    GRAND CANYON TRIP REPORT (a fictitious account)                     <big ol’ snip         realated by Rocky Contos               Thanks for the great story!  Too bad "Joe" is fictictious, sounds like     a hell of a paddler!

Response:

Question:

No man can lose what he never had.           Chap. v. The Compleate Angler – Izaak Walton. 1593-1683. I guess that’s why its called fishing and not catching Tight lines Julian

Response:

Bad news….16 inches isn’t a monster.  It’s a nice fish, but not worth  crying over.  Hope this makes you feel better.

I beg to differ…it was probably a speck (brook trout), in which case 16 inches is DEFINITELY worth crying over. The biggest brookie I’ve caught so far was only 10 inches. "Oh, once in a while you’ll tie into a big one, say seven or eight inches long, but you’ll need to use live bait and Ford Fenders for one of those." – Jeff Ohman, Fear of Fly fishing. My condolences, Pierre…but look on the bright side…you saw it, you felt it. You may run into it again, in which case say hello from me. — K.G. (Kat) Cruickshank – fish enthusiast – Toronto, Ontario, Canada see my illustrations at http://www.mackerel.com/fish/home.html

Response:

16" may be a big brookie on some small stream, but on large lakes and rivers in northern Ontario, and especially Quebec, a 16" brookie doesn’t even entitle you to braggin rights.  IMHO.  Tight lines.  

Response:

Yesterday, I was fishing near my home in Quebec with my girlfriend’s father I was using a little green Muddler. After I had caught 10 trouts, some have 11 inches long, I saw this MONSTER at the end of my line. It was at least 16 inches. But I just can’t bring it on the ground I had no net and I lost it. Since yesterday I can’t stop tinking about this fish. Help me

Congratulate yourself on effecting a humane and brilliantly executed long distance release, tie another muddler and get on with your life.

Response:

Yesterday, I was fishing near my home in Quebec with my girlfriend’s father I was using a little green Muddler. After I had caught 10 trouts, some have 11 inches long, I saw this MONSTER at the end of my line. It was at least 16 inches. But I just can’t bring it on the ground I had no net and I lost it. Since yesterday I can’t stop tinking about this fish. Help me

it was the spirits of 10 fishies haunting you.   you must cleanse yourself by UPS’ing me all of your fishing stuff. it is the only way. TimW

Response:

Yesterday, I was fishing near my home in Quebec with my girlfriend’s father I was using a little green Muddler. After I had caught 10 trouts, some have 11 inches long, I saw this MONSTER at the end of my line. It was at least 16 inches. But I just can’t bring it on the ground I had no net and I lost it. Since yesterday I can’t stop tinking about this fish. Help me

Pierre,  Congratulations!! You haven’t "lost" your monster trout, you have successfully completed one of the most difficult type of humane releases a Catch and Release Fly Fisher can accomplish — The Long Distance – No Hands Release. What you experienced is not a failure but a magnificent success. Non, mon ami you don’t need therapy —  YOU NEED A NET!!!!!! jg

Response:

You need more than a net.  You need to re-define "big" trout. A big trout is 5 lbs or better IMHO. 16" trout are a dime a dozen.  Great fighters at that size, though.

Response:

Bad news….16 inches isn’t a monster.  It’s a nice fish, but not worth crying over.  Hope this makes you feel better.

Response:

IMHO, the size of a "great" trout depends on the river or watershed and your experience catching and releasing that fish.  In a number of fisheries a 16" fish may represent the best that that ecosystem is capable of producing and sustaining. Dave Donahue

Response:

Since yesterday I can’t stop tinking about this fish. Help me

Pierre, this is a malady that effects us all.  The demons of the deep (sometimes shallow) will continue to haunt us all for as long as we fish and then some.  I myself have a similiar re-occuring nightmare where I lost a 28in, 6-6 1/2 lb brown on a size 22 nymph when the knot came loose.  I have dreamed about that fish at least once a month for the last two years.  But a wise man once said, "It is better to have fished and lost than never to have fished before!"  Keep on trying and remember "Love ‘em and Leave ‘em."

Response:

Yesterday, I was fishing near my home in Quebec with my girlfriend’s father I was using a little green Muddler. After I had caught 10 trouts, some have 11 inches long, I saw this MONSTER at the end of my line. It was at least 16 inches. But I just can’t bring it on the ground I had no net and I lost it. Since yesterday I can’t stop tinking about this fish. Help me

Response:

Question:

Any info on possibilities of small lake or stream fishing here. I have heard there’s some bass possibilities here.

Response:

There are lots of ponds with LM and Peacock bass in them.  I’ve personally only caught them on a spinning rod, but there’s no reason they wouldn’t take flies.  There may be some bass or other interesting creatures in the larger streams.  There sure are a lot of them on Kauai, and there are some nice flats areas that ought to be fishable for Ulua (Trevally) and their younger brothers, Papio.–Crashjibe

Response:

Only stream fishing when i was there ran through Kokee State Park.  Purely "put & take" trout.  Definite for Peacock.  Don’t expect to find ANY gear there, though.

I fished some of the freshwater reservoirs in cane fields (get a permit…they’re free from the sugar co.). Largemouth and peacock a’plenty *:) I thought I remember reading where Kokee has a very short fishing season….did I remember right?

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