Question:

I’ve been lurking around these parts lately.  A while back I saw that ROFF was going to the San Juan.  That’s just over 3 hours from home, and I fish there pretty often, so I hooked up with Bruiser and made plans to be there for the Clave.  I fish lots of waters around northern New Mexico – some because of the fishing, others because of the beauty of the places. Off to the ‘Juan we went.  The SJ is a tailwater, behind a large earthen dam, flowing through a spectacular sandstone canyon in an exceptionally dry and arid region – it gets an average of 8" of precipitation each year.  It’s near the village of Navajo Dam, east of Farmington, at 6000′.  Willi’s pictures were great – but they still don’t capture the beauty of the area. I met Bob and Charlie, Willi, Bruce, and Dan’l when they arrived Friday night.  Chuck arrived in a little while.  We had dinner and a few beers, figured out where/when we’d meet the next morning, and turned in pretty early. We started fishing early Saturday morning.  Early enough to have ice in the guides and to break through ice in the sloughs next to the river. By the time I got my flies tied on, Willi had caught a couple of fish. I understand that’s pretty common.  Everyone caught fish on Saturday. Everyone but me, it seems.  I hooked up with a few, but not as many as I should have, and landing them was almost impossible.  I got tangled, I broke off, it was like I’d never done this before!  Of course, it was still fun, but here I am, on water I know pretty well, not catching much of anything. Sunday I slept in a bit.  I got down to the river at 9:30 or 10:00. Charlie and Bob are in the Kiddie Pool, and Bruiser shows up while I’m getting ready.  Things are going kind of slow, so I put my seine in the water to see what kind of bugs were around.  Lots of light-colored midges and midge larva showed up in the net, so we tied on light-colored patterns.  And fish were on!  I was catching my share, and everyone was having a good day.  We moved around the river, to the big holes, to the fast canyon water, to the flats – pretty much all over.  Fishing was good.  Chuck fished part of the day and went home.  He was replaced by Arni and Scott. One of the big thrills of fishing the SJ is catching large fish on tiny flies.  A 12" rainbow is a tiny fish there.  Most are 14-18".  Lots are bigger, with 20+" fish not uncommon.  And they take #20-#24 midge larva – basically thread on a hook.  We made the regular jokes about fishing a #76 paramecium.  But then we figured out that the fish really wanted egg patterns.  Midge eggs.  That’s about a #84 hook. Two exceptional things happened Sunday.  Fish at the SJ collect behind the fishermen.  They see so many fishermen every day that they don’t spook too easily.  They swim behind you, sifting through the junk that your feet stir up.  I’m fishing in the Texas Hole and a big fish starts tapping on my boot!  He’s bumping it with his head!!  We figured he was trying to tell me to move my feet some more, so I’d stir up some more food. The second thing was when a beautiful blue heron came to our pool in the evening and watched us fish.  He squawked at us for a while, then he just watched. One of the problems with fishing the SJ is the crowds.  It’s become really popular.  The normal rules of stream etiquette just don’t apply, and you’re always fishing in sight of someone, and in the popular spots, with people very close by.  Except between Thanksgiving and Christmas. Monday there wer 8 people on the top ~1.5 miles of the river, from Texas Hole up to the dam (not counting two duck hunters).  7 of them were us!   It was deserted.  But the fish seemed to want to ride the tilt-a-whirl, and with fewer anglers on the river, they viciously attacked our flies.  My flies, at least.  Monday was one of those days you hear about, but seldom have.  Fish after fish after fish.  Big fish.   No tangles.  No break-offs.  Spot a fish, get a good drift to him, and he’d take.  Toss your fly in the water as you waded to a new place, and they’d find it when you weren’t expecting it.  I caught what was probably the largest trout of my life – ask Dan’l how big it was.  We layed it up against my fly rod to measure it.  I measured the fly rod later – it was a 24-25" rainbow – a true denizen of the deep.  I caught at least 4 over 20" on Monday, and lots and lots of the "small" ones. That evening, I walked over to a hole we’d been fishing every evening. I was the only one there – I couldn’t even see anyone else.  By Monday we knew what would work in this particular hole – any midge larva with red in it.  Unable to understand how fish could find such tiny flies in the failing light, I tossed in a #22 Desert Storm and started catching fish.  Pretty soon the blue heron came over to watch me.  Just me, the heron, and the fish.  I caught 5 in ~30 minutes before I decided to call it quits and head for home. It was a great weekend.  Fishing was good to great.  The weather was spectacular – the storm that was predicted went to the south and we never saw it.  Everyone got along well, and there was plenty of comraderie When do we do it again?  I’d fish with these guys any time.  Thanks Bruce, for setting this up.         – Bryan

Response:

Bryan, After a great report like that, you will be in great demand around here. Everyone enjoyed meeting you and fishing with you.  Glad to hear you had a good time.  Once we heard the "everyothercast" echo down the river, we knew you were. And I’ve got some news for you:  next year you’re the co-host! bruce h

Response:

I’ve been lurking around these parts lately.  A while back I saw that ROFF was going to the San Juan.  That’s just over 3 hours from home, and I fish there pretty often, so I hooked up with Bruiser and made plans to be there for the Clave.

    thanks for a nifty report, bryan.     funny how much your experience reminds me of fishing up in the smokies….  :( yfitons wayno

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Bryan, [snip] And I’ve got some news for you:  next year you’re the co-host!

You realize that almost guarantees snow for next year, right? Sure, I’ll help.  If we act early, we can reserve most of Rizuto’s!         – Bryan

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Sure, I’ll help.  If we act early, we can reserve most of Rizuto’s!

  Rizuto’s wins out over Abe’s, don’t you think?  I asked Chuck if he’d give a discount if I could get all of the roffians at next year’s clave booked there and he said yes.  Something to remember.  I knew it was a bad sign when we pulled up to #52 at Abe’s and there was the plumber’s truck sitting in front. Still not fixed after a year:)   Another great clave.  Thanks, Bruiser.  Bryan, it was nice to meet and fish with you.  You fit right in.  (Scary, isn’t’ it?)   As others have given such nice trip reports, I don’t have much to add.  I did discover the joys of studded, felt waders.  Unbelievable traction.  Should have purchased them years ago. I also bought some of that high priced Rio Fluoroflex plus tippet.  5X with a 5 lb. test.  It worked very well and I didn’t break off as many fish.   The first two days were the best for me.  I don’t know when I’ve caught as many big fish.  You couldn’t beat the weather, either.  I had a lot of fun driving down with Willi and Charlie, again.  They weren’t much fun on the way back as I think they slept the whole way.  I only took short naps as I was driving:)  It was great to see my clave buddies again and I’ll see you next year. Snoop — —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

    The first two days were the best for me.  I don’t know when I’ve caught as   many big fish.  You couldn’t beat the weather, either.  I had a lot of fun   driving down with Willi and Charlie, again.  They weren’t much fun on the way   back as I think they slept the whole way.  I only took short naps as I was   driving:)  It was great to see my clave buddies again and I’ll see you next   year. Get those pictures developed and out to me, please. Willi

Response:

Get those pictures developed and out to me, please.

  They’re being processed as we speak.  Hopefully will have them Monday.  Send me your mailing address. Snoop — —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

  Rizuto’s wins out over Abe’s, don’t you think?

Abe’s is part of the "experience."  I’ve experienced the "experience." This was the first time I’ve stayed at Rizuto’s.  Definately nicer. Seeing all those picnic tables around, I think we’ll need to haul a BBQ grill up there and have a Clave Banquet in the parking lot!   Another great clave.  Thanks, Bruiser.  Bryan, it was nice to meet and fish with you.  You fit right in.  (Scary, isn’t’ it?)

Doesn’t that mean I should be flaming somebody?  Everybody? I left one thing out of my trip report.  There were these bait fishermen.  They were fishing below the quality waters, down by the campground.  But they were staying at Rizuto’s, in room #1. AND THEY BROUGHT THEIR OWN SATELLITE TV DISH! [for those who don't know much about northern NM - you only get one TV station in Navajo Dam, and the reception of that one is pretty poor]         – Bryan

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AND THEY BROUGHT THEIR OWN SATELLITE TV DISH!

Sounds like a good idea to me, assuming you have the time to watch TV. The local NM stations are the absolute worst.

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Question:

"Bugger" As I suspected. Why don’t you guys just tell newcomers in the beginning that they are not welcome? This group is clearly a waste of time. Bug

Not sure that’s fair. In my time here (relatively short) I have been called a spammer, an asshole, a pompous git, a wanker, and a myriad of other things, but no one ever said I wasn’t welcome. Of course, I wouldn’t give a shit either way. It seems your response is a bit premature as you certainly don’t seem to have achieved a consensus about your being welcome or not at a clave. In fact I think you should turn up, I might actually spring for an airfare for that one myself. Clark

Response:

    Not sure that’s fair. In my time here (relatively short) I have been called   a spammer, an asshole, a pompous git, a wanker, and a myriad of other   things, but no one ever said I wasn’t welcome.     Of course, I wouldn’t give a shit either way. It seems your response is a   bit premature as you certainly don’t seem to have achieved a consensus about   your being welcome or not at a clave. In fact I think you should turn up, I   might actually spring for an airfare for that one myself. I’d make a point of being there too. I’d like to fish with you. Willi

Response:

Congrats, Mark. Keep the log book up to date, keep it between the lines, Just Say No To Overdrive, and best of luck. /daytripper (Hey! Now I can say "some of my best friends are truckers"!

Thank you kindly good sir! I will heed your advice, and look for you on my trips up North. yfitons, Op  –plagarist, just this once–

Response:

As I suspected. Why don’t you guys just tell newcomers in the beginning that they are not welcome? This group is clearly a waste of time. Bug

You seem to have discounted my reply? I suggest that you just show up at a ‘clave and be your *real* self.  Just ask Jeff C. about it. Op

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This group is clearly a waste of time.

That’s why we stick around. Mu

Response:

This group is clearly a waste of time. That’s why we stick around. Mu

"What?  Did he expect Ichor?" GG :  ) www.gink.com

Response:

"What?  Did he expect Ichor?"

You mean Marty Feldman’s character in Young Frankenstein? Mu

Response:

If I am following this thread reasonably accurately, it appears that if I have the balls to show up, I will be granted some modicum of tolerance to demonstrate that the *real* me is very different from the *virtual* me. Feel free to correct me. (Rhetorical.) Bug et al. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – They sound like they could be a lot of fun. Are they by invitation only? Bug

Response:

If I am following this thread reasonably accurately, it appears that if I have the balls to show up, I will be granted some modicum of tolerance to demonstrate that the *real* me is very different from the *virtual* me.

I think eees got it! I think eeezzzzz got it! Now wherez the rhain in Spain? "In the p____!" (Fill in) "In the p____!" (Fill in) (Just don’t volunteer to run the raffle) Dave

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(Just don’t volunteer to run the raffle)

And everyone count your fingers after shaking hands with him.

Response:

They sound like they could be a lot of fun. Are they by invitation only? Bug

Response:

They sound like they could be a lot of fun. Are they by invitation only? Bug

Not since I’ve been a part of ROFF! Just show-up and fish with lots-o-good folk. Op

Response:

They sound like they could be a lot of fun.

They are. Are they by invitation only? Bug

Yes.   Die. Wolfgang

Response:

They sound like they could be a lot of fun. They are. Are they by invitation only? Bug Yes. Die. Wolfgang

Now, now Wolfie.  I find it hard to believe that your last statement is heart-felt? Op  –say it ain’t so, Please.–

Response:

They sound like they could be a lot of fun. Are they by invitation only? Bug

Just do me one small favor, please, Collier. Stick to the claves out East.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – They sound like they could be a lot of fun. They are. Are they by invitation only? Bug Yes. Die. Wolfgang Now, now Wolfie.  I find it hard to believe that your last statement is heart-felt? Op  –say it ain’t so, Please.–

Sorry, Op, it’s my name.  I take it very seriously. Wolfgang and i mean it.

Response:

Sorry, Op, it’s my name.  I take it very seriously. Wolfgang and i mean it.

My mistake!  I was talkin’ about the other last statement, as you know I would never make light of you name.  Well not since the first and last time I did when first I found ROFF.  You remember, I’m sure. Op  –nonetheless, sure wish I could have made it to the anti-clave this year– P.S.  I begin truckin’ on the 19th of Nov., if all goes well with drug test, health exam (not mental, thankfully), and road test.  So I may be in your neck of the woods in the near future, as Cargo Transporters go everywhere in the US and Canada…..OK, they don’t do Hawaii or Alaska.

Response:

Sorry, Op, it’s my name.  I take it very seriously. Wolfgang and i mean it. My mistake!  I was talkin’ about the other last statement,

Oh, that.  Now, why in the world would anyone care what someone says to a tetherball? as you know I would never make light of you name.  

Well, as I said, I take it seriously.  That said though, I can’t imagine why anyone else should. Well not since the first and last time I did when first I found ROFF.  You remember, I’m sure.

Ah, those were some days, ainna?    :) Op  –nonetheless, sure wish I could have made it to the anti-clave this year–

P.S.  I begin truckin’ on the 19th of Nov., if all goes well with drug test, health exam (not mental, thankfully), and road test.  So I may be in your neck of the woods in the near future, as Cargo Transporters go everywhere in the US and Canada…..OK, they don’t do Hawaii or Alaska.

The next month or so will still allow swinging a fly line in much of Wisconsin (although opportunities to chase trout are severely limited) but after that it’s pretty much hard water fishing till some time in late March or April.  You get up this way, give us a holler.  We’ll see if we can roust Joel, George, and maybe even Kim out of hibernation for a bit…….they’re apt to be a bit surly when awakened at this late season but they can usually be calmed down with a handful of berries or a marmot or something. Wolfgang

Response:

They sound like they could be a lot of fun. They are. Are they by invitation only? Bug Yes.   Die.

<splork!

Response:

They sound like they could be a lot of fun. Are they by invitation only? Bug

Let’s just say you can be "not invited".

Response:

They sound like they could be a lot of fun. Are they by invitation only? Bug Just do me one small favor, please, Collier. Stick to the claves out East.

I dunno. He could be big on spontaneity. <g — TL, Tim

Response:

P.S.  I begin truckin’ on the 19th of Nov., if all goes well with drug test, health exam (not mental, thankfully), and road test.  So I may be in your neck of the woods in the near future, as Cargo Transporters go everywhere in the US and Canada…..OK, they don’t do Hawaii or Alaska.

Congrats, Mark. Keep the log book up to date, keep it between the lines, Just Say No To Overdrive, and best of luck. /daytripper (Hey! Now I can say "some of my best friends are truckers"!

Response:

As I suspected. Why don’t you guys just tell newcomers in the beginning that they are not welcome? This group is clearly a waste of time. Bug – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – They sound like they could be a lot of fun. Are they by invitation only? Bug Let’s just say you can be "not invited".

Response:

As I suspected. Why don’t you guys just tell newcomers in the beginning that they are not welcome?

    in your case, that condition should have been immediately clear.  This group is clearly a waste of time.

    no doubt. Bug

awh

Response:

We tell virtually all newcomers right from the start that they *are* welcome.  hint hint But what the hell – just show up and prove us all wrong.

As I suspected. Why don’t you guys just tell newcomers in the beginning that they are not welcome? This group is clearly a waste of time. Bug

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – They sound like they could be a lot of fun. Are they by invitation only? Bug Let’s just say you can be "not invited".

Response:

Question:

We are planning a trip to the Laguna Madre late summer early fall.  Never been before.  Any help on flies, maps, places, etc would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks in advance. Henry

Response:

We are planning a trip to the Laguna Madre late summer early fall.  Never been before.  Any help on flies, maps, places, etc would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks in advance. Henry

Henry, what part of the Laguna Madre are you planning to visit? It runs about 120 miles from Corpus Christi south to the Brazos Santiago Pass at South Padre Island. For great fly fishing adventures, you can’t miss fishing with Capt. Joe Mendez, Capt. Bill Sheka or Capt. Billy Sandifer out of Corpus Christi. Out of Port Mansfield, try Capt. Charlie Buchen or Capt. Terry Neal. Out of  Arroyo City, I highly recommend Capt. Dan Coley and Capt. Rick Hartman.   Out of South Padre and Port Isabel, you can’t miss with Captains Eric Glass, Jim Stewart, Chuck Scates, Richard McInnis or Skipper Ray. Take lots of shrimp patterns and Clousers and have a great adventure. Phil Shook

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Question:

I am in the process of trying to learn how to fly fish.  I live in Utah, and my office is at the mouth of Provo canyon, and only 4 1/2 minutes away from some really good lunch time fishing spots, on the Provo river.  Last summer I bought a rod and real, and a coworker of mine taught me to roll cast, and explained to me the concept of fishing with dry fly’s.  this winter I read "Fly fishing for the complete idiot: a no-nonsense guide to fly casting" by Michael Rutter, and have been practicing casting on my lawn.  I am ok with casting now (or will be with more practice), and I understand what to do with dry fly’s, but I am clue less on how to setup and present a wet fly.  I am looking for a recommendation on a book that will go into more detail on setting my line up for a wet fly,and presentation of both wet and dry flys. Jim Ferry Orem, Utah

Response:

I am in the process of trying to learn how to fly fish.  I live in Utah, and my office is at the mouth of Provo canyon, and only 4 1/2 minutes away from some really good lunch time fishing spots, on the Provo river.

Your "office" is really that gas station across from the old power plant, right? –Steve

Response:

The big ugly pink building building 3/4 mile down university ave.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am in the process of trying to learn how to fly fish.  I live in Utah, and my office is at the mouth of Provo canyon, and only 4 1/2 minutes away from some really good lunch time fishing spots, on the Provo river. Your "office" is really that gas station across from the old power plant, right? –Steve

Response:

Prospecting For Trout (Rosenbauer) for overall strategy.  Nymph Fishing (Hughes) good starter book for nymph fishing (is that what you mean by wet?)

Response:

    My favorite "how to" book is Borger’s Presentation. I loaned mine to Bob Skinner last year, so it’s probably for sale in some Buffalo WY used book store by now. Hint: if Buffalo has more than one used book store, check the ones closest to the liquor stores. And thats only assuming Buffalo doesn’t have any brothels that take used books in trade.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am in the process of trying to learn how to fly fish.  I live in Utah, and my office is at the mouth of Provo canyon, and only 4 1/2 minutes away from some really good lunch time fishing spots, on the Provo river.  Last summer I bought a rod and real, and a coworker of mine taught me to roll cast, and explained to me the concept of fishing with dry fly’s.  this winter I read "Fly fishing for the complete idiot: a no-nonsense guide to fly casting" by Michael Rutter, and have been practicing casting on my lawn.  I am ok with casting now (or will be with more practice), and I understand what to do with dry fly’s, but I am clue less on how to setup and present a wet fly. I am looking for a recommendation on a book that will go into more detail on setting my line up for a wet fly,and presentation of both wet and dry

flys.

Response:

    My favorite "how to" book is Borger’s Presentation. I loaned mine to Bob Skinner last year, so it’s probably for sale in some Buffalo WY used book store by now. Hint: if Buffalo has more than one used book store, check the ones closest to the liquor stores. And thats only assuming Buffalo doesn’t have any brothels that take used books in trade.

  Yeah, that’s a pretty good book.  But, I still have it.  No book stores or brothels in Buffalo and I buy my beer out of state ($7.00/case last time I went back to Lexington, NE.  I bought 5 cases)   Peggy says we need to get your books and rod back to you.  I think she really means she wants to go to Denver to see our daughter and Peggy’s sister and do some shopping.  I will bring fine cigars for rent on the books. Snoop —

Response:

    My favorite "how to" book is Borger’s Presentation. I loaned mine to Bob Skinner last year, so it’s probably for sale in some Buffalo WY used book store by now.

Yes, good one  I think it’s a good book too.  Also, one that can be left on the coffee table without your SO griping about it.

Response:

I just returned "Presenting  the Fly" by Lefty Kreh to the library.  Very good book, published in 1999.  He covers more that trout in it and it has some good tips on gear.  It’s around $40 so when I need it again it’s back to the library for me or just read it at B&N.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -am looking for a recommendation on a book that will go into more detail on setting my line up for a wet fly,and presentation of both wet and dry flys. Jim Ferry Orem, Utah

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Question:

  There’s fish in there all year round, but in the winter it’s also stocked with rainbows.  The fish spread out over the length of the "clear ditch" and are very spooky.  The banks are also very high, which makes it difficult to be stealthy.  It’s known as my state’s most technically demanding flyfishing.  

Good report Bruce. The spooky fish sure are a switch from the Juan’s. Learn how to take these fish, Bruce. They’ll teach you alot. Willi

Response:

 We’ve recently moved to the north end of town, …

Thanks for the report, Bruce. Some have had success fishing over recently stocked fish using a "brown wooly booger" slapped heavily on the surface. Matching the trout chow hatch, as it were. I wouldn’t want to embarrass anyone by divulging this "technique", but it’s been known to work on the stocker sections of the Watauga. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Some have had success fishing over recently stocked fish using a "brown wooly booger" slapped heavily on the surface. Matching the trout chow hatch, as it were. I wouldn’t want to embarrass anyone by divulging this "technique", but it’s been known to work on the stocker sections of the Watauga.

Haven’t tried that one. But how about this one: sixteen beadhead pheasant tail nymphs tied in tandem. Toss that rig into the pool and it looks just like a pellet shower. Works every time! –Steve

Response:

You’ve been hanging around Louie to long. Flies aren’t supposed to get wet. Paul

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Some have had success fishing over recently stocked fish using a "brown wooly booger" slapped heavily on the surface. Matching the trout chow hatch, as it were. I wouldn’t want to embarrass anyone by divulging this "technique", but it’s been known to work on the stocker sections of the Watauga. Haven’t tried that one. But how about this one: sixteen beadhead pheasant tail nymphs tied in tandem. Toss that rig into the pool and it looks just like a pellet shower. Works every time! –Steve

Response:

Rumor has it that one Waldosomebodyorother has ingeniously adapted a cotton candy machine to spin Trout Chow and glycerine into pseudo hair/hackle.  Deadly flies made from this marvelous "natural" and "organic" product are being manufactured by the millions in third world country slave labor camps and being readied for release as the Trout-O-Matic early in the Spring. Tom  (rumormonger) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  We’ve recently moved to the north end of town, … Thanks for the report, Bruce. Some have had success fishing over recently stocked fish using a "brown wooly booger" slapped heavily on the surface. Matching the trout chow hatch, as it were. I wouldn’t want to embarrass anyone by divulging this "technique", but it’s been known to work on the stocker sections of the Watauga. — Ken Fortenberry

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 We’ve recently moved to the north end of town, near the east bank of the Rio Grande.  I’m on a dirt road for the first time in my life, and we’re the only home among six on our road that has no livestock.  Not fancy, but you can see the stars at night and we like it. On the west side of the river there’s a little old apple farming town that’s almost been swallowed by urban sprawl.  That little town has protected itself with zoning laws designed to preserve it’s rural characther, and it’s worked.  There’s also a spring creek running through that little town, next to the Rio Grande.  The creek was remanufactured (probably over 100 years ago) to run through a man made channel and it looks like an irrigation ditch.  Unlike all of the other ditches that make up the Albuquerque drain system, however, this one runs clear and cold all year long and has lots of aquatic plant life and insects.  There’s fish in there all year round, but in the winter it’s also stocked with rainbows.  The fish spread out over the length of the "clear ditch" and are very spooky.  The banks are also very high, which makes it difficult to be stealthy.  It’s known as my state’s most technically demanding flyfishing.  In five previous tries, usually consisting of a couple hours of fishing, I’ve caught a grand total of one pretty large rainbow. Thursday afternoon, I tried again, this time with a good friend from work.  We parked near another ditch, a muddy one, and started to get rigged up.  A fellow walking down the opposite bank asked if my truck was ok (maybe he thought I was parking in a strange place).  My friend asked if there’s a better place to park to fish the clear ditch, and our new friend obliged us by pointing me to a better place to park than I’ve ever discovered before, just through a small gate to a prime stretch of water.  My truck was the only vehicle there, but this spot was obviously not a secret.  You could tell people park there often. When we got to the ditch, there was no problem finding fish.  In the first depression we spotted a couple little rainbows that we managed not to spook.  No luck.  My friend was fishing tiny dries and I, tiny nymphs.  We moved all over and tried every trick we know to no avail. We’d fish where we saw fish and none of them were interested in our imitations.  There was a terrific hatch of small mayflies but our stocker friends in front of us weren’t feeding on them actively.  A couple of times, in frustration, we stood up on the bank and showed ourselves to the fish and instead of the two or three we had spotted, twenty or thirty of them would begin swirling in front of us but they wouldn’t leave the depression they were sitting in.  We weren’t catching any fish, but we were having fun trying. More fishermen appeared in our primo stretch of water.  The bait guys (two of them) kept their distance and fished from the bushes, drifting single eggs to the fish with no luck.  The other fly fishermen, however, were not a shy, asking us how we were doing, spooking fish as they walked past us up on the streambank.  There were four other fly fishermen, all kids, and they had no clue about fishing manners, but they were just kids and they were nice.  And we weren’t catching any fish anyway. I spotted a 15" carp and before i could cast to him, while trying to get into postition, lost sight of him.  He was real spooky.  My friend and I spent some more time walking to get away from the others and I had told my friend to keep an eye out for larger carp.  He called me over because he had spotted a ‘white’ fish and wanted me to drift my nymph to it.  He thought maybe it was a smaller carp an it was sitting on the bottom. My glasses must be better than his because i could tell right away that it was a white goldfish about 7 inches long, and he was flanked in the water by no less than 4 other goldfish, all gold.  Those goldfish must be selective feeders.  I tried midges, scuds, mayflies, all to no avail.  I thought SJ fish were selective!  Well, it got dark and we went home. So, if anyone wants to visit me and sight fish for goldfish, let me know bruce h — bare your soul let your spirit burn out along the road to no return – r.e. keen

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Question:

Great report, guys.  Peter, are you standing in a hole in that picture?  <g Never saw Forty in waders.  Hope I never do again.  <g  I like your hat, Forty.  Eff ‘em all if they don’t! Glad you guys had a great trip, and like Charlie has said, I find it hard to believe it did not rain.   Dave LaCourse

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They call it "The Carnival" because during steelhead season it is packed with anglers. On a Monday morning, it was relatively uncrowded. "Relatively" being the key word.

Welcome to Michigan! A great day of fishing. The Muskegon River is a beautiful piece of water. It supports a spawning population of steelhead and Chinook salmon. It’s not really a trout stream, though. All the trout are stockers and they don’t get any natural reproduction.

I believe there are places where you can find resident trout.  I was speaking with a guy last night who has been fishing the Muskegon on and off for the last three weeks.  He said he caught several browns and rainbows in the 16" – 19".  Of course he was fishing private water that is rarely encountered except for people who are taking long float trips. Good to hear you guys got into some steelies.  I’ve been meaning to go out this year but only made it out once and left early after only two hours of fishing.  I was disgusted by the "relatively" uncrowded conditions.  Did catch some trout but on my 9 wt they weren’t too much fun. Mu

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Glad you guys had a great trip, and like Charlie has said, I find it hard to believe it did not rain.   Dave LaCourse

Worse, it snowed. Peter

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real truth along with the evidence can be viewed at: http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/trip-27.html

The truth ain’t always ugly.  Nice pics, whoever took them – both you and Ken did a good job of that. Delorme’s can be wrong (the Michigan one at least).  They don’t show all the dirt roads and there are some *roads* on that map that are just dirt trails.  Some of the names of the roads change as they cross county lines or highways and this is not always clearly marked on the map.  Also, the green color on the Delorme is supposed to represent public land but the detail is not fine enough to show you that on many of these streams there are in fact houses along the river.  I don’t mind too much though, the exploration part is just part of the fun of fishing.   BTW, I like Ken’s hat – got a Kangol just like it, earflaps and all. Mu

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<great report snipped Nice Report Ken.  You reminded me of the first time on the San Juan last November.  I left my wading shoes in the car after my first day fishing, got down to the river the next morning and they were frozen solid. bc. — Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. -Benjamin Franklin

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A great day of fishing. The Muskegon River is a beautiful piece of water. It supports a spawning population of steelhead and Chinook salmon. It’s not really a trout stream, though. All the trout are stockers and they don’t get any natural reproduction. I believe there are places where you can find resident trout.  I was speaking with a guy last night who has been fishing the Muskegon on and off for the last three weeks.  He said he caught several browns and rainbows in the 16" – 19". …

That’s right. Residents aka holdovers. I caught a nice 12" rainbow, he didn’t put up much of a fight against a 7wt. Those 6-8 inchers will be 12-14 inchers by fall and there are holdovers that make it through the winter. When I say it’s not a trout stream I mean that trout do not reproduce in the stream, they are all stocked. The spawning population of steelies and salmon head out to Lake Michigan after their sexual escapades in the Muskegon and return year after year to spawn. Their offspring do the same. While some would claim they’re not "wild" because they were stocked in the first place they are "natural" in my book. Unlike the trout. — Ken Fortenberry

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Why can’t the rainbows spawn if the steelhead and salmon can? Are they outcompeted by the bigger fish?

Good question. I don’t know. I’m not familiar with the Muskegon at all and don’t know much about it. BTW, the salmon don’t return year after year. They die. I think I’ve heard of experiments with Atlantics in the Great Lakes, but the vast majority are Pacific salmon.

That’s right, the salmon that spawn in the Muskegon are Chinooks. — Ken Fortenberry

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Ken Have they ever tried Cutts in these rivers? Dave

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Have they ever tried Cutts in these rivers?

Don’t know, David. I’m more familiar with Wisconsin DNR than Michigan. So far as I know, Wisconsin has not. — Ken Fortenberry

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That’s right. Residents aka holdovers. I caught a nice 12" rainbow, he didn’t put up much of a fight against a 7wt. Those 6-8 inchers will be 12-14 inchers by fall and there are holdovers that make it through the winter. When I say it’s not a trout stream I mean that trout do not reproduce in the stream, they are all stocked.

My guess is that it has nothing to do with water quality but other factors such as: available spawning space (competition from the big guys), fishing pressure, low survivability of the stockers (poor genetics?), and perhaps seasonal factors that affect residents but not migratories. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Unlike the trout. — Ken Fortenberry

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -The truth ain’t always ugly.  Nice pics, whoever took them – both you and Ken did a good job of that. Delorme’s can be wrong (the Michigan one at least).  They don’t show all the dirt roads and there are some *roads* on that map that are just dirt trails.  Some of the names of the roads change as they cross county lines or highways and this is not always clearly marked on the map.  Also, the green color on the Delorme is supposed to represent public land but the detail is not fine enough to show you that on many of these streams there are in fact houses along the river.  I don’t mind too much though, the exploration part is just part of the fun of fishing.   BTW, I like Ken’s hat – got a Kangol just like it, earflaps and all. Mu

I was just being an ass.  The Delorme showed a Pettit road that lead straight to Croton.  It was a goat track and it ended at some power lines where trees and stumps had been dragged across the right-of-way. One would guess from the Delorme that it was a decent road.  Ken was right, the Delorme was wrong. Peter

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Great trip report guys.   Thanks for the smiles. Joe F.

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Anyway, enough of the Entertainment Tonight segment of the trip.  The real truth along with the evidence can be viewed at: http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/trip-27.html

Nice report and pictures, but it didn’t seem to be raining so are you sure that was really Fortenberry in the festive chapeau? — Charlie…

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……I have an ET2 secret that he’d pay me mucho dinaro not to reveal on these pages.

I’ll open the bidding at 5 bucks.

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……I have an ET2 secret that he’d pay me mucho dinaro not to reveal on these pages. I’ll open the bidding at 5 bucks.

i’ll see that 5 and raise, a hush falls over the table, hee-hee-hee…. a bottle of wild turkey for maine clave — Ezflyfish.com:  http://www.ezflyfish.com http://auctions.yahoo.com/booth/ezflyfish_com Used, Rare, & Out-of-Print Books: http://www.crosswinds.net/~brbg/books/brbg-2.html

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Good report.  Nice to see pictures on your site. Willi – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Peter is the one on the right with the teeny weeny bright hen and I’m the one on the left with the huge brawny buck. [a somewhat accurate story snipped] — Ken Fortenberry Teeny weeny hen my ass.  Just to set the record straight, I caught the hens, Ken caught the bucks.  Not trying to imply something here, but I’m starting question his "orientation" if you know what I mean.  (Say no more.   Say no more.  Nudge, Nudge, Wink, Wink)  Any way, if he keeps up with those exaggerations, I have an ET2 secret that he’d pay me mucho dinaro not to reveal on these pages. Anyway, enough of the Entertainment Tonight segment of the trip.  The real truth along with the evidence can be viewed at: http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/trip-27.html Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Marvellous report, great pictures too. I really enjoyed that.  Thanks TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

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Holy macaroni! Who the hell are the two "dudes" in the pictures with the guide?

The good looking "dude" is me.  I’m the one with the rod.  The fish is the thing with fins.  The guide is holding the thing with fins. Notice I made Ken’s fish picture big and my fish picture small.  Am I a great person or what, eh? Where the heck did Ken get that hat??

He loves it – and I had to put up with all of the sniggers from the bait fishermen. And what’s this – Ken fishing for stockers?!?

with a gusto, I might add That’s it. The world is coming to an end. /daytripper (awe-palled…)

Naw, just a blip.  Now if he’d used spawn on the end of his T&T  . . . . Peter

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Teeny weeny hen my ass.  Just to set the record straight, I caught the hens, Ken caught the bucks.  Not trying to imply something here, but I’m starting question his "orientation" if you know what I mean.  (Say no more.   Say no more.  Nudge, Nudge, Wink, Wink)  Any way, if he keeps up with those exaggerations, I have an ET2 secret that he’d pay me mucho dinaro not to reveal on these pages. Anyway, enough of the Entertainment Tonight segment of the trip.  The real truth along with the evidence can be viewed at: http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/trip-27.html

Holy macaroni! Who the hell are the two "dudes" in the pictures with the guide? Where the heck did Ken get that hat?? And what’s this – Ken fishing for stockers?!? That’s it. The world is coming to an end. /daytripper (awe-palled…)

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Nice report. Thanks, almost like being there, especially the bloody freezing feet ! TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

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Peter is the one on the right with the teeny weeny bright hen and I’m the one on the left with the huge brawny buck.

[a somewhat accurate story snipped] — Ken Fortenberry

Teeny weeny hen my ass.  Just to set the record straight, I caught the hens, Ken caught the bucks.  Not trying to imply something here, but I’m starting question his "orientation" if you know what I mean.  (Say no more.   Say no more.  Nudge, Nudge, Wink, Wink)  Any way, if he keeps up with those exaggerations, I have an ET2 secret that he’d pay me mucho dinaro not to reveal on these pages. Anyway, enough of the Entertainment Tonight segment of the trip.  The real truth along with the evidence can be viewed at: http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/trip-27.html Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

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… Where the heck did Ken get that hat??

Hey, that’s a great hat, fleece, Goretex AND ear flaps,…ahhh, ear flaps. Peter made fun of it too, can you imagine, and him looking like the Unabomber in that hood. And what’s this – Ken fishing for stockers?!?

Yeah I know, it made the guide happy. I considered it part of his tip. Those fish were put in the river the previous Thursday, all were 6-8 inches and dumber than dumb. The guide said if there’s anything in your fly box that you’d like to pull out at some point and say, "Can you believe I caught a fish on THAT.", now is the time to tie it on. They had six inches of snow the previous Friday and he said they were rising furiously to snow flakes. — Ken Fortenberry

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We picked the Muskegon River in Michigan because it’s roughly equidistant between my home in Urbana, IL and Peter Charles’ home in Burlington, Ontario. As fishing season 2000 started to unfold and dates started firming up, it was starting to look like Peter and I wouldn’t have a chance to wet a line together. I can’t make it to Maine ‘Clave, Peter can’t make it to Spring Fling so obviously we had to do something. It was basically put a finger on the map, let’s fish there. We hired a guide for Monday and met at the motel late morning on Sunday. I had my canoe and the plan was to buy licenses and familiarize ourselves with the area before the guided trip the next day. While buying the licenses I discovered a couple of things. First, if you catch a female steelhead early in the day, just gut her on the spot and you’ve got bait for the rest of the day. This from the very friendly bait guys at the Trading Post. I said, "Yeah, thanks. What a great idea." They did give us some very helpful advice on access points and I genuinely like talking to those guys even if I never would gut a hen on the spot. Second, Peter lies about his weight when buying a fishing license. We had a pleasant canoe trip from Croton Dam to the Thornapple Ave. access. Very crowded on a Sunday afternoon and we canoed more than we fished. We did see plenty of steelhead, though. Rather, Peter saw plenty of steelhead, I had left my polarized glasses in the car. Monday morning was cold. My wading shoes were wet from the day before and they turned into ice cubes while sitting in the drift boat. Hard for me to be comfy with cold feet and my feet were encased in ice for the first hour of the trip. We anchored the boat at a place the guides call "The Carnival", an eighth of a mile stretch of riffles and pools about a mile below Croton Dam. They call it "The Carnival" because during steelhead season it is packed with anglers. On a Monday morning, it was relatively uncrowded. "Relatively" being the key word. I got the first couple of hookups but botched them badly. Broke off the fish almost immediately. Peter landed the first steelie after a couple of his own botched hookups. I quickly followed and caught the same buck that had broken me off earlier, so was able to retrieve BOTH of my #14 black stonefly nymphs. We moved down a ways, spotted some fish, anchored and then waded into position. Peter was on almost immediately, our guide looked downstream, looked at the hole where he’d positioned me and said "Here’s our chance for a double." The guide waded down to net Peter’s fish and before he got into position I was on to a fish. The double. Guides love ‘em, and it makes for a great photo op. The first fish took me into the backing but this one seemed content to just sit in a hole and DEFY me. I watched the action downstream as Peter and the guide did the intricate netting dance and then I yelled down to Peter, "Here’s our double !" I worked down to get my fish next to the net so the guide could net both, one right after the other. He did, we got a quick photo, and Peter will post it on his site soon. Peter is the one on the right with the teeny weeny bright hen and I’m the one on the left with the huge brawny buck. I don’t know what Peter was using, I caught that one a Hex nymph. A great day of fishing. The Muskegon River is a beautiful piece of water. It supports a spawning population of steelhead and Chinook salmon. It’s not really a trout stream, though. All the trout are stockers and they don’t get any natural reproduction. Our guide was very good. I have only mentioned one guide in this forum as someone I recommend. That was Robin Cunningham of Gallatin Gateway, Montana. Today, I recommend the second. Dustan Harley of Ripple Guide Service. http://www.rippleguideservice.com/ Dustan had us on the water for nearly 11 hours and was at his most impressive when he stopped the boat, and said "Get out your 4 wts." It was the PERFECT interlude. We tossed stimulators and griffiths gnats to rising stockers. After chucking lead for most of the day with 7 wts, it was a real joy to actually flyfish with a dry fly. We caught dumb little 8" fish and it was a hoot. Dustan will be in Livingston, Montana during Western ‘Clave. He’s a good guy to go fishin’ with. I do question his taste in beer, after the trip when offered a Sleeman’s or a Budweiser, he chose the Sleeman’s. Hey, I said he was a good guide, I won’t vouch for his taste in beer. After that long day in the wind and the cold you might expect a couple of old farts to just go back to motel room, drink a beer in their underwear and go immediately to sleep. Peter and I partied till the wee hours, drank a half a fifth of Wild Turkey, and had to shoo off the dancing girls at daylight. That’s our story and we’re sticking to it. — Ken Fortenberry

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Question:

Hello all. Im just getting back into fishing, haveing not been able to go for a while. I live in Virginia, and just got back from Shenendoa National park fishing, but it was pretty poor. Im wondering if anyone has any info on Gunpowder Falls Trout streams in MD? Im thinking of trying there next week. Or any other good streams near the MD/VA area

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Michael,  I’m an avid fly fisherman in Maryland.  One of my favorite streams is in Thurmon, MD.  Just up route 15.  Big Hunting Creek is the name.  It’s a fly fishing catch and release area with some large trout.  I do really well with midges just under the surface.  Try fishing up from the ranger cabin. Some great water.  Bill  (two years ago I caught my largest trout. 36" rainbow up there)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello all. Im just getting back into fishing, haveing not been able to go for a while. I live in Virginia, and just got back from Shenendoa National park fishing, but it was pretty poor. Im wondering if anyone has any info on Gunpowder Falls Trout streams in MD? Im thinking of trying there next week. Or any other good streams near the MD/VA area

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Question:

I am going to be in the Santa Fe, Las Vegas areas for a few days in July and would like to spend a day on a trout stream while I’m there. I would appreciate very much any recommendations anyone would be willing to share regarding places as well as fly patterns. Thanks.

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I am going to be in the Santa Fe, Las Vegas areas for a few days in July and would like to spend a day on a trout stream while I’m there. I would appreciate very much any recommendations anyone would be willing to share regarding places as well as fly patterns. Thanks.

Jerry, the pecos river is pretty good in july esp if you don’t mind hiking into the pecos wilderness 4-5 miles(beattys cabin area). It is also decent fishing just outside of the wildeness. Terrestrials, elk hair caddis, royal wulffs + zug bugs, prince nymphs have worked well for me. we had a poor snow pack this year, so water levels will be lower than normal. good fishing zane rakes

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Question:

Any advice on the Provo River?  Going to Sundance in July for some R & R and some flyfishing.  Hear that nymphing is the best way to go.  What is the

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Any advice on the Provo River?  Going to Sundance in July for some R & R and some flyfishing.  Hear that nymphing is the best way to go.  What is the

If you go the "nymphing" route, you should do ok.  The weather is fairly warm, and the river usually gets crowded really fast.

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I try to fish it on a regular basis since I’m only 15 min. from it. We have had a late spring & the runoff is hitting it hard right now. There are still places to get on it but it’s tough fishing(fast, deep & a little dirty). If the water flow slows down it has good potential in July. I’d try; Chamois Caddis 14 – 18, Sow Bug 18 – 20, Brassies 16 – 18, Pheasant Tials 12 – 18. Fish it right on the bottom or on the edges. Towards evening there should be some surface activity. If it’s too high to get on take a ride up above Deer Creek to Charleston or Midway & fish that section, My brother in law loves it up there, he’s been doing well with a San Juan worm. It’s only another 20 min. from Sundance. Clint

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Any advice on the Provo River?  Going to Sundance in July for some R & R and some flyfishing.  Hear that nymphing is the best way to go.  What is the If you go the "nymphing" route, you should do ok.  The weather is fairly warm, and the river usually gets crowded really fast.

PMD emergers are hot right now.

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I try to fish it on a regular basis since I’m only 15 min. from it. We have had a late spring & the runoff is hitting it hard right now. There are still places to get on it but it’s tough fishing(fast, deep & a little dirty). If the water flow slows down it has good potential in July. I’d try; Chamois Caddis 14 – 18, Sow Bug 18 – 20, Brassies 16 – 18, Pheasant Tials 12 – 18. Fish it right on the bottom or on the edges. Towards evening there should be some surface activity. If it’s too high to get on take a ride up above Deer Creek to Charleston or Midway & fish that section, My brother in law loves it up there, he’s been doing well with a San Juan worm. It’s only another 20 min. from Sundance. Clint

Thankfully this high water misconception has curbed the number of ff’ers on the Provo lately.  This is nice as we’ve been catching anywhere from 5 to 10 fish an hour without too many neighbors.  The water is especially clear also, allowing you to see many of the fish.  This also makes for fish holding in very predictable places.  (ie slower deeper water)  The fly selection, now that’s the part that will make or break your day as well. Happy Trails and tattered flies. Curtis Fry FFFTWKISS!!!!

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Any advice on the Provo River?  Going to Sundance in July for some R & R and some flyfishing.  Hear that nymphing is the best way to go.  What is the If you go the "nymphing" route, you should do ok.  The weather is fairly warm, and the river usually gets crowded really fast. PMD emergers are hot right now.

Mike,         Can you give me a description on the PMD emerger.  I dont know if I have         ever seen one before.         Thanks

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I try to fish it on a regular basis since I’m only 15 min. from it. We have had a late spring & the runoff is hitting it hard right now. There are still places to get on it but it’s tough fishing(fast, deep & a little dirty).

I’m moving to Draper this month and have tried the Provo on several occasions.  The dirty water has perplexed me… I’m assuming it has to do with the releases from the dam upstream? With the road construction several years ago did the fishing change somewhat? If the water flow slows down it has good potential in July. I’d try; Chamois Caddis 14 – 18, Sow Bug 18 – 20, Brassies 16 – 18, Pheasant Tials 12 – 18. Fish it right on the bottom or on the edges. Towards evening there should be some surface activity. If it’s too high to get on take a ride up above Deer Creek to Charleston or Midway & fish that section, My brother in law loves it up there, he’s been doing well with a San Juan worm. It’s only another 20 min. from Sundance. Clint

I want to try the upper section myself. Any advice about access etc.? Coming from an area where my favorite waters are 4 to 5 hrs away, I am indeed excited about living close to the Provo (and Green) Trust I will bump into you on the river some day.         Wherever you go…. There you will be.

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Any advice on the Provo River?  Going to Sundance in July for some R & R and some flyfishing.  Hear that nymphing is the best way to go.  What is the If you go the "nymphing" route, you should do ok.  The weather is fairly warm, and the river usually gets crowded really fast.

The Provo is a wonderful river, but nymphs are your only hope.  However, you won’t have to worry about crowds until the 9-5 crowd gets out from work.  You won’t have *much* problem mornings or early afternoons, except for us lousy college students The weather will be hot.  Be prepared for some heat; I’d leave my neoprenes at home.  The river is also higher this year than it has been in the past, but since you are just coming for a vacation, that won’t matter to you, will it? best o’ luck, Jeff Windsor

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Question:

I’m looking for somewhere in Santa Cruz and surrounding areas to throw a dry-fly.  Does anyone know of some place like that … Also, what about catfishing in the local sloughs? Thanks Kim — With a Double Espresso and a British Motorcycle …  |               |_      —-/   / /___   /  |       DoD#    /        –/—       / /—|       800880  /__/       /___/ _____/ /    |

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I’m looking for somewhere in Santa Cruz and surrounding areas to throw a dry-fly.  Does anyone know of some place like that …

You could throw a dry fly in the ocean but you’re not likely to catch anything.  The best place I can think of offhand would be Loch Lomand Reservoir in Felton. If you get there really early in the morning you might pick up a trout or two.  A few years ago I was catching tons on bluegill on wet flies casting from a canoe.  There’s some nice largemouths in the coves as well.  You’d have to wait till next season but you can pick up some steelhead in the San Lorenzo river and Scott creek, north of Davenport. I can’t really think of any good streams in the vicinity that would provide dry fly fishing.  No legal ones anyway. Your best bet is to head to the Sierra. Also, what about catfishing in the local sloughs?

I know a 19lb. catfish was caught out of Loch Lomand as well a couple of years ago.  I don’t know of any sloughs in the Santa Cruz area but the Delta is full of them. John – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Thanks Kim — With a Double Espresso and a British Motorcycle … |               |_      —-/   / /___   /  |       DoD#    /        –/—       / /—|     800880  /__/       /___/ _____/ /    |

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