Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello Wilfred, glad you enjoyed the site.  To your question:    Shooting heads are actually nothing more than pieces of fly-line whose weight is matched as exactly as possible to the rod.  They are normally made by using a normal DT line, from one to two sizes heavier than the recommended line weight for the rod, and cutting this to a suitable length. Which line you choose to start with depends on the intended purpose of the finished head. Any given rod, including fly-rods, will cast best of all when loaded with a specific weight.  Shooting heads are based on this principle.  Once you find the "optimum" weight for your rod, then you can weigh the result, and any line of this actual weight may be cast well with this rod, or indeed even a piece of lead of the same weight. There are of course physical limitations to the length of line etc, but within fairly wide parameters the above holds true.  Again, within certain parameters, the length, diameter, and other line characteristics are quite immaterial, only the actual weight is important. "Ready made" shooting heads are not normally as good as the ones you make up yourself, as they rarely match the rod properly, which rather defeats the object of the exercise. In order to make up a shooting head for any particular rod, the procedure is as follows: Obtain a DT line one size heavier than the recommended line weight, ( if there are two numbers on your rod, i.e. #5/7 ) then use a number seven DT. It is immaterial whether one uses a floater or a sinker, or any other type of line, however, for your particular purpose, ( deep fishing ), a high density sinking line is the only really suitable choice to start with. Put this line on your rod, and then cast it normally without using any hauling etc.  Do not try to cast more than about forty feet maximum, as this may overload the rod, and even damage it.    When you are casting effortlessly and well, with say 30 to 40 feet of line outside the rod tip, ( this will vary considerably dependent on the rod used ), then take a marking pen, lay the rod down, and mark the line at the rod tip. You have just found the ideal line weight for your rod.   Cut the line at this point. Attach your backing line to where the line was cut, ( 20 LB flat nylon monofil, for instance, such as "amnesia", although normal monofil will also work, but has a tendency to tangle more) with a needle knot or similar, ( I prefer loops, see below). Now, using a double haul, ( the technique is described on my site ), you should be able to shoot a great deal of this backing without any trouble or effort at all.  With practice, even extreme distances may be reached. One hundred foot casts are no problem at all, and a great deal more may be reached with practice.  The technique is to lay out the backing on a level surface, or use a line tray or similar, aerialise the head, execute a double haul, and allow the backing to shoot. For your specific purpose, I would actually advise getting a DT line two sizes heavier than your rod recommendation. The procedure is then the same, but your shooting head will be a lot shorter, as the line is heavier to start with. Do not try to aerialise more than thirty feet of this line, it will damage your rod. A "short"  heavy head is more advantageous for deep fishing, as it sinks more rapidly, and also more uniformly.  This may mean that your "head" is only twenty -five feet long.  This is slightly more difficult to cast, but it is better for your purpose. One does have the advantage that one is constantly casting a piece of line of the same length and weight, and once this is learned, there is never any need to alter ones timing etc.  This is quite easy with a little practice. You do not say which flies you would like to use, but normally for this purpose, largish streamers and similar flies are used. The rig described will carry quite large heavy flies fairly easily. The trick now is to cast the line out, and start "counting down" in seconds, retrieve, when you get a take, then you know the fish are at this depth, and on subsequent casts you simply count the same number of seconds before starting your retrieve.   You do not of course know the actual depth you are fishing at, but this is not necessary, and it would do you little good to know it anyway. There are quite a few problems associated with very deep fly-fishing, not the least of which is finding the fish.  Large lakes and similar bodies of water invariably have what is known as a "thermocline" at some specific depth, which varies with the weather etc. This is a distinct separation line between relatively "warm" surface water, and relatively "cold" water.  The temperature difference may be quite considerable, and the fish may be on one side or the other of the thermocline,  if you are not fishing in the correct zone, you will catch nothing at all, a few inches deeper or higher, and you may get a bagfull. The "countdown" method allows you to find this depth fairly quickly. It is rarely necessary to fish even close to the bottom in such deep lakes, as there are very few fish there at all, if any.   Most of the deep lakes I fish in Summer, ( in Winter, there is no thermocline as such, for various physical reasons, this of course assumes that your "Winter" is cold ), generally have fish ( and large ones ! ) at between 25 and 50 feet, and these fish invariably feed on shoals of baitfish. On very large lakes, you can "trail" this rig behind the boat at slow speed, paying out backing to control the depth.  The more backing out, and the slower the speed, the deeper you fish.  This may help you to find the fish before you tire yourself out casting!  Use a larger reel than you normally would, with plenty of backing line. At the very least one hundred and fifty yards.  If you get hooked into a ten pounder or more it will give you a hell of a fight usually, and very long unstoppable runs are fairly typical of such fish. If you do not have enough backing, they will simply break you. The best flies are invariably streamers as I said, and you should use larger ones.  Most of my "standards" are at least three inches long, and sometimes larger. The leader you use can simply be a piece of normal monofil line, I invariably use a ten foot length of ten pound nylon.  "Turnover", and "presentation" are not factors in this type of fishing, in the sense that the "presentation" takes place under water at considerable depth, and any casting finesse on the surface is superfluous. This is not an elegant method of fishing, but it is extremely effective. If you find that even this rig gets down too slowly ( unlikely but possible ), then obtain a length of "lead core" line, follow the procedure described for making up a shooting head, but use the lead core line to do this. Only use a short piece of this to start casting with, and be careful, a whack in the back of the head from this stuff will quite possibly knock you out, and if it hits the rod it may shatter it.  This rig is a real pig to cast, as the timing is extremely critical, but it will get down deep and fast, and more and more people are using such rigs for fishing in deep water, especially in the ocean.  Personally I prefer the more "normal" high density sinker, as it is more pleasant to use. For fishing at depths in excess of say thirty or forty feet, there is no real alternative to a high density head, or lead core line.  You will doubtless be surprised at how long it takes such a line to sink as well.  If you want to try this, then simply cast out, and wait for the line to hit bottom.  You will feel this when it happens, the backing line will "go slack". If you want to increase your fishing depth, then after casting, pay out backing as required until you reach your previously determined "count down" depth. This also helps the line to sink in a more or less horizontal plane, and prevents the line hanging "straight down" under the boat, which makes for bad presentation. The fish you are attempting to imitate rarely swim vertically, and a horizontal presentation is invariably more succesfull. For "trailing " behind the boat ( this method is often called "trolling", which is however incorrect ), the lead core line may be superior, especially as casting is not then necessary. Just pay line out as required. To close, if you wish to experiment with shooting heads, then I would advise you to buy "mill ends" from the following address.  These are cheap, and of excellent quality, and one can make up a whole range of heads for various purposes for very little money.  I have used these for years.  You can make up two shooting heads from a DT line, and you can use the odd thirty feet which is left over from the middle for other experiments, or making up other custom lines, like sink tips, intermediates etc. I use "shooting heads" almost exclusively, for all my fishing, and I am very happy with them. I can change lines at will, simply by looping a new head onto my backing, even when "normal" trout stream fishing etc. I carry up to ten heads coiled in a wallet in my jacket pocket, and I can immediately react to any changes in water or weather etc, simply by looping on a new head Mullarkey & Sons 184-185 Waterloo Street, Burton-on-Trent, Staffs DE14 2NQ England You can pay by credit card, order by phone,  ( I believe they are working on a web-site as well )  the service is excellent, and many of the other products are worth taking a look at as well. Their phone number is  01283   566777  ask them to send you a catalogue. I have no connection with them by the

… read more »

Response:

Ooops !  This post was actually a mistake, it was a reply to an e-mail which I once again accidentally posted to ROFF.  Oh well never mind, if it was of any help to you. I am sure nobody will mind.   I will have to avoid posting when I am tired out in future. TL MC — "In order to know what is possible one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de Excellant Post – Very informative.  I have been cutting double tapered

lines

Response:

I used to cut double tapers in half for small stream fishing but quit when my son came back from the Lamar River in Yellowstone one Fall and complained about only having hip boots and 1/2 Double Taper Line. Seems the trout were feeding just out of reach and he thought I had endangered the family jewels. Ernie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Excellant Post – Very informative.  I have been cutting double tapered lines in two for years, mostly because I am cheap and use only half a line most of the time anyway.   Your method of tuning the line is brilliant. This fall I will have a section of 10 weight on the old Ugly Stick up on the Ho. I use to have a size G-A "spinning taper"  ( made to fly fish with a spinning rod )  that I used on a nine weigh.  It  was 14′ long and worked very well but I haven’t seen one for years.  I have been using a weight forward line and never have been really thrilled with them. Thanks again   BJ Conner Hello Wilfred, Mike "In order to know what is possible one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de —–Urspr

Question:

The Post of the Year John…whatever you’re smokin’,  PLEASE send me some. — Levi Life is anything that dies when you stomp on it.                                                         — Dave Barry

Response:

SNIPPED… <G TC R, who enjoys discussing FLY FISHING

As I reread this, I realized what happens a lot here on ROFF.  New(er) ROFFians who have been around USENET awhile have habits/quirks from other groups, some moderated, some not.  Take my addition above.  To some, it might seem to be a slam on "john" for an off-topic post, but what I mean (and some others may be familiar with this) is I am merrily going along with the off-topic discussion, but to satisfy what used to be automated "cancelbot" monitors, I mention "FLY FISHING" to be technically "on topic" and stay within the Charter.   For example, " RFI: Opinions on Bratwurst?" and the response, " I personally like X Brand, especially while FLY FISHING." Other differences are not signing posts and what appear to be short, curt answers.  ROFF is the only basically serious group I’ve ever seen that is enjoyably "all over the map" with almost no "off-topic/charter violation" wars.  What appears to be improper is simply the etiquette of many other groups.   I am not suggesting anything change in that regard, i.e., that ROFF needs to "conform" to something, nor trying to tell my "elders" how to post.  What I am doing is offering the above to perhaps suggest that otherwise decent newbies/occasional posters be cut some degree of slack until their intentions are clear – sometimes a simple "Are you serious?" can avoid a lot of bad feelings and wasted space.   I realize many consider many consider ROFF to have Darwinian rules, but it is pretty hard to play if you don’t know the rules.  I know I’ve had and caused my share of confusion, and even seen others get into it and polarize a thread over what seems like a misunderstanding. JMHO, R, who doesn’t usually eat Bratwurst while FLY FISHING

Response:

"x" to reply) says… <Snipped R, who doesn’t usually eat Bratwurst while FLY FISHING

So do you use floatant or sinker stuff to season that with… WHILE FLYFISHING! — Michael Era

Question:

Thanks to everyone for their thoughtful replies to my original post. Just thought I’d let you know that my wife and I went to Rifle again this past weekend and I was allowed 1 hour to fish (she needs her climbing partner, after all). This time I found that my casting had already improved a lot and I kept my fly on the water (and out of the bushes) much more of the time. I got two small browns this time, and a LOT of missed strikes. Conclusion: my casting and presentation have improved somewhat, and I need to figure out how to convert those strikes into caught fish! By the way, I guess I didn’t make it clear that I grew up in Texas, but no longer live there. Now I live in Colorado — if anyone has recommendations for small streams to fish near Boulder, please let me know. I’ve fished the Boulder and St. Vrain creeks (S & N), but not with my fly rod. bock – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Congratulations!  But watch out, this has all the stuff that addictions are made of.  I vividly remember my first trout on the fly, and as the metaphor states__hook, line and sinker..I was a gonner.  Living in Texas you must have many bass waters.  Don’t be afraid to challenge them with your fly rod.  A whole lot of fun.  As far as the things like tangled line, too much slack line, or being snagged in the trees goes, don’t worry. These things are all common, and their rate of occurrence will decrease as you level of skill increases.  Have fun! Jeff Boks Fly Fishing~~~~~Just Do It

Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

Congratulations!  But watch out, this has all the stuff that addictions are made of.  I vividly remember my first trout on the fly, and as the metaphor states__hook, line and sinker..I was a gonner.  Living in Texas you must have many bass waters.  Don’t be afraid to challenge them with your fly rod.  A whole lot of fun.  As far as the things like tangled line, too much slack line, or being snagged in the trees goes, don’t worry. These things are all common, and their rate of occurrence will decrease as you level of skill increases.  Have fun! Jeff Boks Fly Fishing~~~~~Just Do It

Response:

Heed the warnings and stay at rock climbing or whatever – the addiction cannot be overcome. Mark Faulkner – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mark B,   I understand the joy of flyfishing.  I recently started (this past Jan) and I finaly caught my first fish on a fly.  After spending time on the South Platte river trying to understand how and where I need to present my fly I had to deploy overseas for an extended period of time.  When I got back all I could think about was going fishing.  My friend, and flyfishing mentor, and I took off early one morning to a local lake to get some flies wet.  After watching the surface for a little while I tied on a #20 misqutoe and within seconds of hitting the water WHAM!  I caught a 16 rainbow.  I will never go back to a spinning rig ever. Rik This past Sunday I finally reached a milestone in my fishing career…my first trout on a fly.

(snip)

Response:

Mark B,   I understand the joy of flyfishing.  I recently started (this past Jan) and I finaly caught my first fish on a fly.  After spending time on the South Platte river trying to understand how and where I need to present my fly I had to deploy overseas for an extended period of time.  When I got back all I could think about was going fishing.  My friend, and flyfishing mentor, and I took off early one morning to a local lake to get some flies wet.  After watching the surface for a little while I tied on a #20 misqutoe and within seconds of hitting the water WHAM!  I caught a 16 rainbow.  I will never go back to a spinning rig ever. Rik – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This past Sunday I finally reached a milestone in my fishing career…my first trout on a fly. I’ve been fishing for the past 21 years. For one reason or another I never really got into fly fishing, perhaps because I lived in Texas where there were no trout streams for many hundreds of miles (or so it seemed), perhaps because nobody I knew liked to fly fish. I did buy a $30 fly rod combo when I was about 12, but I don’t think I ever caught so much as a bluegill on the thing. My fly fishing was relegated to dreams of clear sparkling streams filled with trout, and to the hours spent reading armloads of books from the local library, books like "In Search of Trout" and "Teach Your Dad How to Fish." Whatever the case, the fact is that my $30 fly rod still sits in my closet unused, despite a recently increasing longing to learn the art. So, last week I bought a 3-weight rod from Cabela’s for $175, determined to this time become a *real* student of fly fishing. My wife and I are avid rock climbers, climbing an average 4 days a week. One of our favorite places to climb is Rifle Mountain Park in western Colorado, a 2-mile long narrow canyon with steep overhanging limestone walls. In this semi-arid landscape, the canyon offers a lush riparian habitat, with a splendid little creek sustaining an almost rainforest-like growth of green things. Normally when we go to Rifle I keep my ultra-light spinning rod in the truck and stalk the many browns in the creek after a hard day’s climbing. This has been my favorite type of fishing — using stealth techniques to creep up to a promising section, flipping a little spinner to just the right spot through the trees and brush, then–when I’ve done everything right–being rewarded with a sparkling trout. On Saturday, with my new fly rod in hand, I felt strangely like an adult in the body of a child just learning to walk. I knew where the trout lay, I knew where to cast, I even knew the fundamentals of fly casting from the many afternoons spent in my yard in Texas as a kid. These damn plants of all kinds just kept getting in the way! It seemed like every time I went to cast, I’d either get hung up on the backcast or the forecast. I would set the rod down and free my fly, only to have the same thing happen as soon as I picked up my rod again. I have much to learn! Finally I stepped into the creek with my Teva’s, braving the bone- chilling cold to cast to a great-looking lie about twenty feet upstream. The sun’s reflection prevented me from seeing my fly, but I knew where it should have been. Suddenly, a swirl in that exact spot. My heart leaped — a trout had just inhaled my fly! I raised the rod tip instinctively, just as I realized that the pile of line at my feet was in no way connected to either of my hands. I was caught completely unprepared. This was my only strike that day. By midafternoon the next day I managed to complete my climbing "project" for the weekend, a short little climb that overhangs by about twenty feet and finishes only 30 feet above the ground (Yes, the ways of both climbing and fly fishing may seem strange to those who don’t practice these sports). This left me free to take up the rod again in pursuit of Salmo trutta. I hurriedly rigged my rod and tied on a tan elk hair caddis. Wanting to give myself every possible advantage, I headed for the best pool in the entire canyon. Almost thirty feet across, this pool always holds a good many fish. Usually they can be seen actively feeding on the surface, and this is exactly what they were doing as I arrived. Crouched behind a convenient boulder, I peered over the water and saw a trout right below me. With just a few inches of fly line extending past the end of my rod, I flipped my 9-foot leader in the direction of the trout. One second later…GULP! He casually sucked the caddis off the surface. This time I was ready and soon I had my flopping trout to the water’s edge. I paused a few seconds to admire the trout’s exquisite spots, then watched it shoot back to its home with a few quick flips of its tail. My journey had begun. -bock Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

This past Sunday I finally reached a milestone in my fishing career…my first trout on a fly. I’ve been fishing for the past 21 years. For one reason or another I never really got into fly fishing, perhaps because I lived in Texas where there were no trout streams for many hundreds of miles (or so it seemed), perhaps because nobody I knew liked to fly fish. I did buy a $30 fly rod combo when I was about 12, but I don’t think I ever caught so much as a bluegill on the thing. My fly fishing was relegated to dreams of clear sparkling streams filled with trout, and to the hours spent reading armloads of books from the local library, books like "In Search of Trout" and "Teach Your Dad How to Fish." Whatever the case, the fact is that my $30 fly rod still sits in my closet unused, despite a recently increasing longing to learn the art. So, last week I bought a 3-weight rod from Cabela’s for $175, determined to this time become a *real* student of fly fishing. My wife and I are avid rock climbers, climbing an average 4 days a week. One of our favorite places to climb is Rifle Mountain Park in western Colorado, a 2-mile long narrow canyon with steep overhanging limestone walls. In this semi-arid landscape, the canyon offers a lush riparian habitat, with a splendid little creek sustaining an almost rainforest-like growth of green things. Normally when we go to Rifle I keep my ultra-light spinning rod in the truck and stalk the many browns in the creek after a hard day’s climbing. This has been my favorite type of fishing — using stealth techniques to creep up to a promising section, flipping a little spinner to just the right spot through the trees and brush, then–when I’ve done everything right–being rewarded with a sparkling trout. On Saturday, with my new fly rod in hand, I felt strangely like an adult in the body of a child just learning to walk. I knew where the trout lay, I knew where to cast, I even knew the fundamentals of fly casting from the many afternoons spent in my yard in Texas as a kid. These damn plants of all kinds just kept getting in the way! It seemed like every time I went to cast, I’d either get hung up on the backcast or the forecast. I would set the rod down and free my fly, only to have the same thing happen as soon as I picked up my rod again. I have much to learn! Finally I stepped into the creek with my Teva’s, braving the bone- chilling cold to cast to a great-looking lie about twenty feet upstream. The sun’s reflection prevented me from seeing my fly, but I knew where it should have been. Suddenly, a swirl in that exact spot. My heart leaped — a trout had just inhaled my fly! I raised the rod tip instinctively, just as I realized that the pile of line at my feet was in no way connected to either of my hands. I was caught completely unprepared. This was my only strike that day. By midafternoon the next day I managed to complete my climbing "project" for the weekend, a short little climb that overhangs by about twenty feet and finishes only 30 feet above the ground (Yes, the ways of both climbing and fly fishing may seem strange to those who don’t practice these sports). This left me free to take up the rod again in pursuit of Salmo trutta. I hurriedly rigged my rod and tied on a tan elk hair caddis. Wanting to give myself every possible advantage, I headed for the best pool in the entire canyon. Almost thirty feet across, this pool always holds a good many fish. Usually they can be seen actively feeding on the surface, and this is exactly what they were doing as I arrived. Crouched behind a convenient boulder, I peered over the water and saw a trout right below me. With just a few inches of fly line extending past the end of my rod, I flipped my 9-foot leader in the direction of the trout. One second later…GULP! He casually sucked the caddis off the surface. This time I was ready and soon I had my flopping trout to the water’s edge. I paused a few seconds to admire the trout’s exquisite spots, then watched it shoot back to its home with a few quick flips of its tail. My journey had begun. -bock Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – On Saturday, with my new fly rod in hand, I felt strangely like an adult in the body of a child just learning to walk. I knew where the trout lay, I knew where to cast, I even knew the fundamentals of fly casting from the many afternoons spent in my yard in Texas as a kid. These damn plants of all kinds just kept getting in the way! It seemed like every time I went to cast, I’d either get hung up on the backcast or the forecast. I would set the rod down and free my fly, only to have the same thing happen as soon as I picked up my rod again. I have much to learn! Finally I stepped into the creek with my Teva’s, braving the bone- chilling cold to cast to a great-looking lie about twenty feet upstream. The sun’s reflection prevented me from seeing my fly, but I knew where it should have been. Suddenly, a swirl in that exact spot. My heart leaped — a trout had just inhaled my fly! I raised the rod tip instinctively, just as I realized that the pile of line at my feet was in no way connected to either of my hands. I was caught completely unprepared. This was my only strike that day.

I snipped all but this of this wonderful post because it rang true with me. I think half of flyfishing success is learning to negotiate the intricacies of dangling line, leader, and fly in the midst of thousands of prickly little sticks and stems. The general rule I live by is that if it’s possible to get snagged you will get snagged. After a great deal of pain and aggravation you learn to anticipate any remotely possible snagging hazard. Then you find yourself with your fly on the water for the majority of the time, instead of unraveling impossible snags for the majority of the time. As you’ve discovered, markb, there are about a million ways you can screw up when flyfishing. That just makes getting it right so much sweeter.

Response:

congrats–bass are real kick on a fly.  there is lots of stream fishing for them in the hill country and lots of good lakes.  if you are on the coast you have chances at really good fish.   wait til you get your first red. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This past Sunday I finally reached a milestone in my fishing career…my first trout on a fly. I’ve been fishing for the past 21 years. For one reason or another I never really got into fly fishing, perhaps because I lived in Texas where there were no trout streams for many hundreds of miles (or so it seemed), perhaps because nobody I knew liked to fly fish. I did buy a $30 fly rod combo when I was about 12, but I don’t think I ever caught so much as a bluegill on the thing. My fly fishing was relegated to dreams of clear sparkling streams filled with trout, and to the hours spent reading armloads of books from the local library, books like "In Search of Trout" and "Teach Your Dad How to Fish." Whatever the case, the fact is that my $30 fly rod still sits in my closet unused, despite a recently increasing longing to learn the art. So, last week I bought a 3-weight rod from Cabela’s for $175, determined to this time become a *real* student of fly fishing. My wife and I are avid rock climbers, climbing an average 4 days a week. One of our favorite places to climb is Rifle Mountain Park in western Colorado, a 2-mile long narrow canyon with steep overhanging limestone walls. In this semi-arid landscape, the canyon offers a lush riparian habitat, with a splendid little creek sustaining an almost rainforest-like growth of green things. Normally when we go to Rifle I keep my ultra-light spinning rod in the truck and stalk the many browns in the creek after a hard day’s climbing. This has been my favorite type of fishing — using stealth techniques to creep up to a promising section, flipping a little spinner to just the right spot through the trees and brush, then–when I’ve done everything right–being rewarded with a sparkling trout. On Saturday, with my new fly rod in hand, I felt strangely like an adult in the body of a child just learning to walk. I knew where the trout lay, I knew where to cast, I even knew the fundamentals of fly casting from the many afternoons spent in my yard in Texas as a kid. These damn plants of all kinds just kept getting in the way! It seemed like every time I went to cast, I’d either get hung up on the backcast or the forecast. I would set the rod down and free my fly, only to have the same thing happen as soon as I picked up my rod again. I have much to learn! Finally I stepped into the creek with my Teva’s, braving the bone- chilling cold to cast to a great-looking lie about twenty feet upstream. The sun’s reflection prevented me from seeing my fly, but I knew where it should have been. Suddenly, a swirl in that exact spot. My heart leaped — a trout had just inhaled my fly! I raised the rod tip instinctively, just as I realized that the pile of line at my feet was in no way connected to either of my hands. I was caught completely unprepared. This was my only strike that day. By midafternoon the next day I managed to complete my climbing "project" for the weekend, a short little climb that overhangs by about twenty feet and finishes only 30 feet above the ground (Yes, the ways of both climbing and fly fishing may seem strange to those who don’t practice these sports). This left me free to take up the rod again in pursuit of Salmo trutta. I hurriedly rigged my rod and tied on a tan elk hair caddis. Wanting to give myself every possible advantage, I headed for the best pool in the entire canyon. Almost thirty feet across, this pool always holds a good many fish. Usually they can be seen actively feeding on the surface, and this is exactly what they were doing as I arrived. Crouched behind a convenient boulder, I peered over the water and saw a trout right below me. With just a few inches of fly line extending past the end of my rod, I flipped my 9-foot leader in the direction of the trout. One second later…GULP! He casually sucked the caddis off the surface. This time I was ready and soon I had my flopping trout to the water’s edge. I paused a few seconds to admire the trout’s exquisite spots, then watched it shoot back to its home with a few quick flips of its tail. My journey had begun. -bock Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

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Couldn’t agree more with this, or the sentiment expressed in that long, previou s post. Having successfully stalked and caught myriad skittish wild rainbows in a tiny gin clear creek did a world of wonders for me psychologically…talk about stress reduction (understatement). And of course, the bug spread like ebola on the loose. I now desperately hope any work related conferences are within a decent time’s drive of some good trout water. Next summer, weather permitting, hope to take more advantage of the gems of the catskills and adirondacks, as well as VT. I’ll keep up with my practising during the year ahead but will misssssssssss those little wild trout. Alex – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – On Saturday, with my new fly rod in hand, I felt strangely like an adult in the body of a child just learning to walk. I knew where the trout lay, I knew where to cast, I even knew the fundamentals of fly casting from the many afternoons spent in my yard in Texas as a kid. These damn plants of all kinds just kept getting in the way! It seemed like every time I went to cast, I’d either get hung up on the backcast or the forecast. I would set the rod down and free my fly, only to have the same thing happen as soon as I picked up my rod again. I have much to learn! Finally I stepped into the creek with my Teva’s, braving the bone- chilling cold to cast to a great-looking lie about twenty feet upstream. The sun’s reflection prevented me from seeing my fly, but I knew where it should have been. Suddenly, a swirl in that exact spot. My heart leaped — a trout had just inhaled my fly! I raised the rod tip instinctively, just as I realized that the pile of line at my feet was in no way connected to either of my hands. I was caught completely unprepared. This was my only strike that day. I snipped all but this of this wonderful post because it rang true with me. I think half of flyfishing success is learning to negotiate the intricacies of dangling line, leader, and fly in the midst of thousands of prickly little sticks and stems. The general rule I live by is that if it’s possible to get snagged you will get snagged. After a great deal of pain and aggravation you learn to anticipate any remotely possible snagging hazard. Then you find yourself with your fly on the water for the majority of the time, instead of unraveling impossible snags for the majority of the time. As you’ve discovered, markb, there are about a million ways you can screw up when flyfishing. That just makes getting it right so much sweeter.

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Question:

Bob, thought you might want to know, you are getting double posts for the FAQ, guidleline and charter postings.

There are no double posts on AOL where the posts originated.  Deja News doesn’t show double posts either.  This would lead me to believet the posts are going out okay and getting messed up along the way to you. Also keep in mind the POSTING GUIDELINES are a little long and some servers will break them into two posts – Part 1 and Part 2. Richard

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Can believe they are getting messed up on the way.  They are not getting broken up into separate posts because the information is identical. Too bad the people who manage this network aren’t as sharp as the technology. — Good fishing, and may your fish be as big as your tales!

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START a  rec.outdoors.fishing.bass.fly Can believe they are getting messed up on the way.  They are not getting broken up into separate posts because the information is identical. Too bad the people who manage this network aren’t as sharp as the technology. — Good fishing, and may your fish be as big as your tales!

– Mr. G. All Writings

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(currently resident in bolivia)

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Further evidence that people like us that venture forth into the malodorous backwaters of the unmoderated usenet need to be on our toes for *anything*, and that maybe this is *not* a good place for the squeamish and children, someone has posted a nekkid .jpg in the fishing pictures group.   Someday, the usenet will sport a web-page like rating system, but until then, please consider the neighborhood you are driving into… Just a warning… TimW Of course, one could argue that this is a pic showing the source of fly tying materials for the "Hairy Mary".

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TimW Of course, one could argue that this is a pic showing the source of fly tying materials for the "Hairy Mary".

Well, at least you made your post fly-tying related.  Just be glad it wasn’t a related photograph showing the source for Tup’s Indispensible. *<|:-#)=-   (Santa Smiley) -Clyde

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someone has posted a nekkid .jpg in the fishing pictures group. Have you reported it to net.abuse.*?

No, but I will… TimW

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someone has posted a nekkid .jpg in the fishing pictures group.   Have you reported it to net.abuse.*?

Unfortunately, that’ll be akin to blowing against the wind… The professional spam artists (how’s that for an oxymoron?) seek out groups with "binaries" as part of the name and bombard them with ads for their porn sites. Get used to it – it’ll only get worse as the group propagates around Usenet… Cheers! /dave <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< < Digital Equipment Corp.       Alpha Server Engineering < < Parker Street Campus            Maynard, Massachusetts   < <        Charter Member of "Curmudgeons Unlimited"       < <<<<<<<<<<<< AMA 548313 <<<<<<<<<<<< Disclaimer: Opinion and content is mine alone, and unlikely             to be shared by my employer, etc…

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: Have you reported it to net.abuse.*? : Unfortunately, that’ll be akin to blowing against the wind… : The professional spam artists (how’s that for an oxymoron?) seek out groups : with "binaries" as part of the name and bombard them with ads for their porn : sites. Get used to it – it’ll only get worse as the group propagates around : Usenet… Which is one reason I hate GUI newsreaders. All they do is allow stupid people to abuse the newsgroups. Even the binaries newsgroups had little trouble before Netscape and others like it allowed you to view pictures directly from the newsgroups. USENET predates the internet but if things keep up like this USENET will soon be just a minor website. It sucks. BiNM

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For some reason I got a notice that said this group has been deleted?  Does it still exist? Pete – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – someone has posted a nekkid .jpg in the fishing pictures group.   Have you reported it to net.abuse.*?

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Question:

I would appreciate any response.

Hi there. Stan

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I thought I had seen an article about a fly fishing screensaver.  I would appreciate any response.

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Question:

About a month ago I asked for info about fishing in N. Georgia.  The response was very good and I thank everyone.   Well, we just got back from the trip to Ga., and I have to tell ya, if I didn’t see it with my own eyes, I wouldn’t believe it.  I discovered the Chatooga River, infamous for being the river where "Deliverence" was filmed.  What an absolutely beautiful piece of water!  I thought I was back in New England.  Fast, cold (61), free stone, clear trout water. There was a hatch of very small caddis, but didn’t see too many rises.  In NE I use a cased caddis fly called the Strawman; just spun deer hair trimmed short.  Gink it up so it floats.  Ga trout like it too.  Only had two days on the Chatooga, but managed a couple of nice browns (10-14 in) down-stream from the Rt 76 bridge.  Caught a few small rainbows downstream and upstream from the Rt 28 bridge.  Great river.  I also tried the Chatahootchi ( The Hootch) below Buford Dam.  Super cold – like 53; no hatches.  But lotsa fog!  Dragged a nymph or two, and lobbed a few streamers, but got zilch.  The rocks on this river are the slimiest, most slippery I’ve ever encountered!  I checked out the Hootch above the lake (iat next trip.  Also, I’d like to try the Chatooga just below the NC border.  Anyone know how to get there? The roads in Georgia are also terrific, and gas was $1.07 a gallon (it’s $1.50 here in Mass)!  Georgia’s not NH or Maine, but it’s great!   Good drifts, Dave LaCourse

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[snip] The rocks on this river are the slimiest, most slippery I’ve ever encountered!

You don’t even want to ask what that slick stuff is! Also, I’d like to try the Chatooga just below the NC border.  Anyone know how to get there?

Go east from the river on Hwy 28 .  Hwy 107 will enter from the left. Take 107 north until you pass the state park on the right.  Start looking for the sign on the left for Burrells Ford road.  It’s a couple of miles down this road to the river.  When you get to the river the NC state line is about 4-4 1/2 miles upstream.  This part of the river is mainly brown trout water and is not stocked.  A good trail goes upstream on the east (South Carolina) side of the river. You can fish on the South Carolina side of the river with a Georgia license, just don’t go up any feeder streams.  As an alternate go west from the river on hwy 28.  Take the first gravel road to the right. That will bring you in to the opposite side of Burrells Ford. The roads in Georgia are also terrific, and gas was $1.07 a gallon (it’s $1.50 here in Mass)!  Georgia’s not NH or Maine, but it’s great!  

We don’t tax gas heavy but did you check the price of beer and cigs? Got to make those sinners pay! See ya, John Johnson Atlanta, GA

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Question:

   Where in Ky can a person learn to fly fish? –

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Hi Contact the Federation of Fly Fishers at 1-800-618-0808 (their National Office).  Ask them for information on a club in your area. The FFF and the affiliate clubs are very focused on teaching the sport.   I think you’ll find them a lot of help. Good Luck Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (catalog avial)

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Question:

we usually catch at least twenty big Browns (2-4 lbs) in an hour or so.

Curtis, I must have missed your first message where you gave the name of thr river you were fishing.  Just post it to me on private E-mail, we don’t want to bother all of the fishermen on this group with small talk. Ernie Harrison

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Fishing spawning beds ??? I dont know nuffink about the case in question guv, but fishing a spawning bed just does not seem to be a done thing old chap

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I think that’s a good assessment of the situation.  Thanks.

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I remember reading an article in either Trout or Fly Fisherman of a study that looked at the effect of wading across spawning beds on egg mortality. I don’t recall exact numbers, but more than 75% of the eggs were squashed in the study setting. Sounds like besides stressing this year’s fish, you are also impacting several years of fish classes.

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I remember reading an article in either Trout or Fly Fisherman of a study that looked at the effect of wading across spawning beds on egg mortality. I don’t recall exact numbers, but more than 75% of the eggs were squashed in the study setting. Sounds like besides stressing this year’s fish, you are also impacting several years of fish classes.

 Ditto!,   Flyfishing affords us the chance to think before we act..IF we choose to. sd

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Now that the Browns are spawning, I have been fishing the spawning beds quite heavily lately on our local river and have been wondering what effect it has on the spawing fish.  I’ve heard that if you’re careful where you step, the actual catching of the fish doesn’t have too much of an effect on them.  To give you an idea of what its like, we usually catch at least twenty big Browns (2-4 lbs) in an hour or so.  I would appreciate any comments or experience anyone might have.

  Curtis, think REAL hard now….does anyone go through your bed with corks on? Not  the best place to hook fish.   Harry

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writes: I would imagine that since fishing is allowed on this stream during the spawning period that the local biologists are not terribly worried about population level effects, either because the stream is heavilly stocked or there are adequate numbers of trout and spawning areas to compensate for the fish which are not able to complete spawning because of being caught.

I think that the Fish and Game departments are less concerned about numbers of fish and more interested in revenues. For a lot of people, the spawning periods and fishing on the beds are the only time that they can catch large numbers of fish on a lot of the heavily pressured rivers. The Wildlife Resource guys smile upon this because the happier their anglers are, the more liscenses they sell; the more liscenses they sell, the more money they make for their management needs. The problem with this is that resource management seems to be entirely about budgets rather than sensibility. Why protect a wild strain when you can make a bunch of money to stock the depleted river with hatchery fish the next year? One case which sticks out like a sore thumb is our local Provo River which has been so well advertised this year. Western Rivers Flyfisher {full service fly shop and outfitter} 867 East 900 South – SLC, UT 84105 (800)545-4312~~(801)521-6424~~fax(801)521-6329 Green River reports, Utah fishing conditions, and statewide guide info.

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As a non-scientist (but an avid angler) who follows this issue closely here in PA, I think Mark is dead on the money in his assessment…… Each individual stream is very much a situation unto itself in terms of population dynamics, recriutment, natural mortality, etc….  If wild trout in a freestone stream have a 40-70 percent annual natural mortality regardless of angling pressure, as I have read, then the effect of issues like catching and releasing spawning fish may be masked and indiscernable to the average angler from season to season……. However, in heavily pressured fisheries, I suppose every little bit hurts.   Additionally, it occurs to me that our measurement of fish abundance as anglers  tends to tell us very little in many cases…Here in PA, the prevailing management  strategy removes BT streams from the stocking list when they exceed a biomass of about 40 lb/surface acre of water.  Some of our better freestones hold in the 75-95 lb/acre range fairly consistently.  Now, if because of drought, flood, predation or fishing over spawners, stream A goes from 85 lb/acre last year to 60 lb/acre this year, do you think as anglers we would be able to tell the difference when we fished the stream?  60 lb/acre is still a lot of trout.  So the difference is kinda like waking up in the morning and finding 23 inches of snow on your car as opposed to 19 inches.  Either one is more than enough snow…  It’s all very subjective in my view….      

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Now that the Browns are spawning, I have been fishing the spawning beds quite heavily lately on our local river and have been wondering what effect it has on the spawing fish.  I’ve heard that if you’re careful where you step, the actual catching of the fish doesn’t have too much of an effect on them.  To give you an idea of what its like, we usually catch at least twenty big Browns (2-4 lbs) in an hour or so.  I would appreciate any comments or experience anyone might have.<<<<

The reproductive cycle, from the production of gonads thru the actual act of spawning, takes up a tremendous amount of energy for a trout.  In fact many trout will die within weeks of spawning.  The added stress of being caught and fought to the point of exhaustion probably increases that fishes chance of dieing within a few weeks.  Also that fish may not have enough left in it after the fight to finish spawning, therefore no prodigy will be spawned from that individual this year.  If ther is enough trout and enough prime spawning areas  in the stream to compensate for the fish which are not spawning because of being caught, then compensatory reproduction and survival of young should help to prevent  any noticible population level effects.  If, however, either there is so much fishing pressure, or so little adequate spawning areas for these fish then you could be having profound impacts on the population (or actually the future population) in this stream.  I would imagine that since fishing is allowed on this stream during the spawning period that the local biologists are not terribly worried about population level effects, either because the stream is heavilly stocked or there are adequate numbers of trout and spawning areas to compensate for the fish which are not able to complete spawning because of being caught.  it is worry some to me anyway that someone can catch "at least twenty fish in an hour".  This sounds to me like this spawning population is big time vunerable to anglers. But on the other hand if so many fish are available and this type of fishing has been common in th past then one could conclude that the population seems able to compensate for the increased mortality of spawning fish due to being caught.It is imporatnt to note that no two streams are alike and what may be fine on one stream could be devestating to the next.  Just my two cents anyway. Mark Arrigo SUNY College of Environmental Science and Forestry Syracuse, NY

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Question:

Does anybody have any information on fly fishing in the Linville Falls community area. I have been camping near there in the past and looked like a nice place to go. I have never been Fly fishing before, but would like to try since someone gave me some gear. Thanks for any info. Chris

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I forgot to put that is Linville Falls community in N.C.

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