Question:

All these other folks have helpful comments (well, most of them). After you’ve digested those, try this: why do the moons of Mars go in the "wrong" direction? I didn’t know that Mars has any moons, I do know that it has the largest volcano in solar system Olympus Mons or something like that any way.  Anyhow back to the martian moons, when you say go in the wrong direction do you mean their orbital paths are clockwise from a northern perspective?

Yep. Demios & Phobos. From our perspective where the Moon goes (slowly) right to left, the two bitty Martian moons (probably don’t create shadows at night as we’re accustomed to) go rather rapidly – one could see the apparent movement with a little patience – go left to right. Pete — If the assumptions are wrong, the conclusions aren’t likely to be very good.    R. E. Machol

Response:

Why was this initial cloud in a disk shape,  and why was it rotating?

Because it had angular momentum. (Watch out for Wayno’s nausea spasm!) — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – All these other folks have helpful comments (well, most of them). After you’ve digested those, try this: why do the moons of Mars go in the "wrong" direction? I didn’t know that Mars has any moons, I do know that it has the largest volcano in solar system Olympus Mons or something like that any way. Anyhow back to the martian moons, when you say go in the wrong direction do you mean their orbital paths are clockwise from a northern perspective? Yep. Demios & Phobos. From our perspective where the Moon goes (slowly) right to left, the two bitty Martian moons (probably don’t create shadows at night as we’re accustomed to) go rather rapidly – one could see the apparent movement with a little patience – go left to right.

Yes that’s strange and doesn’t fit in with the initial rotating disc theory at all.  Do you think that Mars aquired them in later life?  If they are orbiting that fast then they are probably smaller than our moon.  Do they interfere with each other in a gravitational sense?  I assume that they are in ecliptic plane too, so if they are orbiting at different heights from the planet’s surface they will pass close to each other now and then.  Could they possibly be 2 halves (or parts) of a small moon that was hit by a passing asteroid?

Response:

why do the moons of Mars go in the "wrong" direction?

From our perspective where the Moon goes (slowly) right to left, the two bitty Martian moons (probably don’t create shadows at night as we’re accustomed to) go rather rapidly – one could see the apparent movement with a little patience – go left to right.

    god is ambidextrious, i reckon. wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Did the early sun pull in a cloud of dust into a giant saturn-like ring of orbiting debris which would later congeal to form the present day planets,  or is there something else that I am missing? Well, yes and no.  Initially there was a rotating disk of dust and gas. The sun formed at the center of the disk, and later the planets and other orbiting bodies formed in orbits around the proto-sun. Why was this initial cloud in a disk shape,  and why was it rotating?

Response:

Why was this initial cloud in a disk shape,  and why was it rotating?

Angular momentum. TL MC

Response:

    god is ambidextrious, i reckon.

Nahh, assuming the existence of such a creature, devious at best. TL MC

Response:

Did the early sun pull in a cloud of dust into a giant saturn-like ring of orbiting debris which would later congeal to form the present day planets,  or is there something else that I am missing? Well, yes and no.  Initially there was a rotating disk of dust and gas. The sun formed at the center of the disk, and later the planets and other orbiting bodies formed in orbits around the proto-sun.

Why was this initial cloud in a disk shape,  and why was it rotating?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I reckon someone on this NG might be able to answer this. Over the last few weeks, I have been checking out the recent planetary alignment  (Mercury, Venus, Mars, Saturn?) I can see all out (except mercury) of my skylight window in the attic ~ where I have my PC.  In the last few weeks I have developed an interest as to what our solar system is, and how was it formed to reveal itself to our eyes as it presently does…snip..? All these other folks have helpful comments (well, most of them). After you’ve digested those, try this: why do the moons of Mars go in the "wrong" direction?

I didn’t know that Mars has any moons, I do know that it has the largest volcano in solar system Olympus Mons or something like that any way.  Anyhow back to the martian moons, when you say go in the wrong direction do you mean their orbital paths are clockwise from a northern perspective?

Response:

Do you think it will make the fish bite better?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I reckon someone on this NG might be able to answer this. Over the last few weeks, I have been checking out the recent planetary alignment  (Mercury, Venus, Mars, Saturn?) I can see all out (except mercury) of my skylight window in the attic ~

Response:

Slarty Bartfast made them that way, It’s all in the book.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I reckon someone on this NG might be able to answer this. Over the last few weeks, I have been checking out the recent planetary alignment  (Mercury, Venus, Mars, Saturn?) I can see all out (except mercury) of my skylight window in the attic ~ where I have my PC.  In the last few weeks I have developed an interest as to what our solar system is, and how was it formed to reveal itself to our eyes as it presently does. My Psion 5MX has a program called Solun and predicts the positions  of the celestial bodies to an impressive display.  I find out that all planets (except pluto), the sun  & our moon form a plane called the "ecliptic".  I can understand why the moon orbits the earth keeping in between the gravitational pulls of the earth & sun  (I imagine that Jupiter’s moons do likewise), but I wonder why all of the other planets (except Pluto) do as well.  I know that the planets all orbit in the same direction (anticlockwise from my NH perspective), but why in the same plane?  I wonder about the directions all being the same being the key to the formation of the ecliptic plane.  Did the early sun pull in a cloud of dust into a giant saturn-like ring of orbiting debris which would later congeal to form the present day planets,  or is there something else that I am missing?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I reckon someone on this NG might be able to answer this. Over the last few weeks, I have been checking out the recent planetary alignment  (Mercury, Venus, Mars, Saturn?) I can see all out (except mercury) of my skylight window in the attic ~ where I have my PC.  In the last few weeks I have developed an interest as to what our solar system is, and how was it formed to reveal itself to our eyes as it presently does…snip..? All these other folks have helpful comments (well, most of them). After you’ve digested those, try this: why do the moons of Mars go in the "wrong" direction? Pete — If the assumptions are wrong, the conclusions aren’t likely to be very good.    R. E. Machol

Sigh . . . . . . . I just wanted to go fly fishing on my planet . . . now I learn my universe has issues . . . who would of thunk it?  (as you are aware from my post, certainly not me) Going to the Arkansas River in central Colorado next week to get involved in the infamous "Mother’s Day Caddis Hatch". We eat them saut

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Nice to see you are back fishing and thanks for sharing it with us.  I have to ask though, did you take any falls?  For some reason your TRs do not seem complete without even the mention of a partial Reid. — Warren Actually, the Patapsco is pretty forgiving.  Mostly gravel bottom and easy wading.  Stayed vertical the whole day. That just will not do!  What’s a Reid report without a full Reid or even a partial.  Do better next time, OK?

Well now, he didn’t actually say which end was up though, did he?     gnagfloW

Response:

Wolfgang Siebeneich wrote… Well now, he didn’t actually say which end was up though, did he?     gnagfloW

Is this the scientific term for PMS? <bseg — Warren (who really should send something to help for sure now) Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt

Response:

Wolfgang Siebeneich wrote… Well now, he didn’t actually say which end was up though, did he?     gnagfloW Is this the scientific term for PMS? <bseg — Warren (who really should send something to help for sure now) Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt

Diagnostic niceties are irrelevant to the efficacy of a true panacea. Send help. Fast! Wolfgang

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Wolfgang Siebeneich wrote… Wolfgang Siebeneich wrote… Well now, he didn’t actually say which end was up though, did he?     gnagfloW Is this the scientific term for PMS? <bseg — Warren (who really should send something to help for sure now) Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt Diagnostic niceties are irrelevant to the efficacy of a true panacea. Send help. Fast!

Egads!  You must be in a bad state indeed if you didn’t even both to answer the "scientific" question.  Send me your snail mail addy. — Warren Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt

Response:

Nice to see you are back fishing and thanks for sharing it with us.  I have to ask though, did you take any falls?  For some reason your TRs do not seem complete without even the mention of a partial Reid. — Warren Actually, the Patapsco is pretty forgiving.  Mostly gravel bottom and easy wading.  Stayed vertical the whole day. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply.

Glad to hear it Frank.  How’s the back doing? Scott

Response:

Going to see a new doc in a couple of hours.  I figured I would go fishing the day before so he can see me at my "best."  Problem is, I went fishing and I feel great!  Must be that hydrotherapy (or the fermented, low hydro, more alcohol therapy). — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply.

Response:

wooly bugger.  As a matter of fact, they walked right through where the fish was.  The only comment out of them was "we’re just gonna cast a couple of times in this hole and then you can have it back."  Idiots.

LOL! The Patapsco’s got trout? Mu

Response:

The Patapsco’s got trout?

Uh….nope, not a one.  :-) Joe F.

Response:

Yep, totally devoid of trout, in fact totally devoid of all fish and other forms of life. In fact the entire drainage is uninhabital to humans or Gink….. Come on up some time so we can show you. Allen Epps – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The Patapsco’s got trout? Uh….nope, not a one.  :-) Joe F.

Response:

In fact the entire drainage is uninhabital to humans or Gink….. Come on up some time so we can show you. Allen Epps

And the reason you dragged your lovely bride into this pestulance ridden sink is? — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply.

Response:

In fact the entire drainage is uninhabital to humans or Gink….. Come on up some time so we can show you. Allen Epps And the reason you dragged your lovely bride into this pestulance ridden sink is?

Privacy? Wolfgang honeymoon in the mosh pit…….mmmmm, nope, don’t think so.    

Response:

Just wanted her to see the stinking pit of armpit of humanity that is a Mid-Atlantic post industrial streambed before I take her fishing out where the Antelope roam. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In fact the entire drainage is uninhabital to humans or Gink….. Come on up some time so we can show you. Allen Epps And the reason you dragged your lovely bride into this pestulance ridden sink is? — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply.

Response:

Nice to see you are back fishing and thanks for sharing it with us.  I have to ask though, did you take any falls?  For some reason your TRs do not seem complete without even the mention of a partial Reid. — Warren

Actually, the Patapsco is pretty forgiving.  Mostly gravel bottom and easy wading.  Stayed vertical the whole day. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply.

Response:

Nice to see you are back fishing and thanks for sharing it with us.  I have to ask though, did you take any falls?  For some reason your TRs do not seem complete without even the mention of a partial Reid. — Warren Actually, the Patapsco is pretty forgiving.  Mostly gravel bottom and easy wading.  Stayed vertical the whole day.

That just will not do!  What’s a Reid report without a full Reid or even a partial.  Do better next time, OK? BTW, about the Bubba family – I’m glad they finally decided to move the States – you can keep ‘em. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Frank Reid wrote… The MD stands for doctor in this situation, ’cause I think I need one. Yesterday, 55 degrees, sunny and calm, today, mid 30’s, snow flurries and wind to 30 mph.  Yeh, I’m nuts, I went out on the wrong day and am feeling a bit worse for wear.

<snipped nice TR Nice to see you are back fishing and thanks for sharing it with us.  I have to ask though, did you take any falls?  For some reason your TRs do not seem complete without even the mention of a partial Reid. — Warren Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt

Response:

The MD stands for doctor in this situation, ’cause I think I need one. Yesterday, 55 degrees, sunny and calm, today, mid 30’s, snow flurries and wind to 30 mph.  Yeh, I’m nuts, I went out on the wrong day and am feeling a bit worse for wear. Now that the preamble has rambled, here’s the scoop.  Daniels Dam on the Patapsco and downstream, water temp 42 and wind making any cast a challenge. I planned to meet with Allen and Moira Epps at the dam at 11 and, oops, gotta run to Wally World to get my license.  Get to the dam on time and Allen and Moira pull up as I’m pulling up my waders (I think the neoprene shrunk over the Winter, not a pretty sight). I tie on a #12 weighted, black wooly bugger with a bit of flash.  Allen has heard about a bit of a hatch so he ties on a dry with a brassie dropper. With the wind, anything that hatches will end up in the Georgia woods. I get a long range release and a couple of refusals within a 50 yards of the dam.  Areas pretty crowded so we walk downstream.  Allen misses one fish in a riffle so after a couple of hours, we finally get the clue that the fish have not moved out much since being stocked. I did have one 14 inch brown rise twice to my fly and was still working it when Bubba Power Bait, with Missus Bubba and their brother Bubba Two (he’s brother to both of them) decide to wade through where I’m am stipping the wooly bugger.  As a matter of fact, they walked right through where the fish was.  The only comment out of them was "we’re just gonna cast a couple of times in this hole and then you can have it back."  Idiots. We went back up the stream to the dam and I got a rainbow in the same spot that I had had the long range release earlier.  We decided to take a couple of casts at the dam pool and I started catching fish.  I set up at the outflow and dredged the nymph across it.  Allen and Moira left and I kept fishing till the wind got too much.  All in all, though the conditions were real tough, it was better than watching curling. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply.

Response:

Question:

I’m not always sour. Just spewing up some vomit. It will pass.

I know you are not souring, and it is good to spew.  I can’t believe what you have been through. (((((Hugs)))))) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Just a big ol’ kidney stone, yeah, you’ll be rid of it. OK. I had a big dry. Geez! Thought I was done with that stuff. I spent a lot of energy being *close* to my kids – moved right within short mortar range of where their mom is living. With all that, I can not even be sure I am doing the right thing – the "confict is bad" crowd would say that since the kids’ mom and I hate each other, I should pack up my troubles, move a thousand miles away and just send a check every week. Maybe they are right, but it is not the path I have chosen, and the path I have chosen is hard, sucks and is exhausting. And I am not even sure if it is the right thing. I understand. At the time of the moving decision, I thought that the only way she could come down from her insanity was to distance myself. I under-estimated insanity. You make your choices, live with them, and live with yourself. What else are you going to do? Just know what your choices are. Make those choices informed, and get on with your life. Else you’ll end up a tired old, shrivelled up cynical fart like me. pffffoooooot!!!! Thoughts with you Roy. Give your better half a big hug, and fall asleep in each others’ arms tonight. Have you ever noticed that two people in bed only need 3 arms? Indeed, one arm is always in the way.

Here are two more arms to crowd the situation. There is only so much you can do, and the kids’ mom is the kids’ mom. She is their problem, unfortunately. They’ll survive. I can’t protect them from the world. Much as I want to. The younger one will be taught to hate me. See responses eslewhere in this thread as to why. Peace, brother. Best – Fido (Soy un perro, pero ella es una hembra!) Did you ever try "tacos de macho"?

I

Response:

 The younger one will, as usual, not want to talk to me. Been there, done that. I just kept calling at the right time, and they will talk if they want to. Later my oldest daughter would surprise me by calling on her own. You are there with them, Roy, believe it.

Yep. As far as Doc’s statements, not all are bitches, The sterile ones can be trusted, if they have a note from their doc. Otherwise, trust your own doc to take care of you. Very cynical. Ouchies. But realistic, I suppose.

Getting such things in writing strikes me as properly responsible. I am sad that you have one in your life. Actually, I have another in my life who is quite wonderful.  Whatcha kevtchin’ about, then?  Hey, a lot of folks don’t even have *that*.

Yeah, but it don’t fix the hole in the heart, does it ? Don’t go sour, have faith. I’m not always sour. Just spewing up some vomit. It will pass. Just a big ol’ kidney stone, yeah, you’ll be rid of it.

Indeed. I spent a lot of energy being *close* to my kids – moved right within short mortar range of where their mom is living. With all that, I can not even be sure I am doing the right thing – the "confict is bad" crowd would say that since the kids’ mom and I hate each other, I should pack up my troubles, move a thousand miles away and just send a check every week. Maybe they are right, but it is not the path I have chosen, and the path I have chosen is hard, sucks and is exhausting. And I am not even sure if it is the right thing.

Well, I am. It is. You are the *father* of the kids. That is important, no matter what the granola crowd bleats. It’s tough. But, you are there for your kids, and they do see that. They will understand what that means. You make your choices, live with them, and live with yourself. What else are you going to do? Just know what your choices are. Make those choices informed, and get on with your life. Else you’ll end up a tired old, shrivelled up cynical fart like me.

<g Thoughts with you Roy. Give your better half a big hug, and fall asleep in each others’ arms tonight. There is only so much you can do, and the kids’ mom is the kids’ mom. She is their problem, unfortunately.

Truth. Peace, brother. Best – Fido (Soy un perro, pero ella es una hembra!) Roy

Andre — " The noblest achievement of the imagination is to make time run some other way, and terminate in beauty and forgivness "                                          David Gelernter, " 1939 "

Response:

Let’s see. I’m sure I left something out. …. Starting Spring Break, the ex starting coaching the girl to say that I am poking her ass while wiping her bottom. I pointed out that I do not handle potty. So, by summer she wants to know why my gf is poking the daughter’s ass. Except that the girl wipes herself.

Response:

so, yeah, Dr Web can rant and rave all he friggin wants. I, for one, will not criticize him. Sometimes there is just more than a grain of truth in the rantings of the mad.

Response:

Hi Roy, so, when some woman posts and say she want ex s2bx to move. Or she plans to leave and take the kids, or, when the guy posts and says he has been asked to leave, I know exactly what is going on. Child abuse, kidnapping, extortion. "I am responsible for my own happiness." – sheesh! new age pop crap!

Not all is fair, and even in general when one speaks of being responsible for your own happiness etc. , I don’t believe they don’t mean that there aren’t very negative forces that are in play. As far as a kind word….my heart is with you and hope that you can be comfortable and proud about yourself and your attempts to be a part of your childrens life. As far as Doc’s statements, not all are bitches, I am sad that you have one in your life.  Don’t go sour, have faith. Glos

Response:

As far as a kind word….my heart is with you and hope that you can be comfortable and proud about yourself and your attempts to be a part of your childrens life.

I appreciate the kind words. Guess it’s time to make my weekly call to the kids. The younger one will, as usual, not wantto talk to me. As far as Doc’s statements, not all are bitches,

The sterile ones can be trusted, if they have a note from their doc. Otherwise, trust your own doc to take care of you. I am sad that you have one in your life.

Actually, I have another in my life who is quite wonderful. Don’t go sour, have faith.

I’m not always sour. Just spewing up some vomit. It will pass. Glos

Roy

Response:

Anytime Roy, you know that!!  ((Hugs)) Daisy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – for me to ask for a kind word. Roy

Response:

for me to ask for a kind word.

You and your kids don’t deserve what she’s doing to you, and if you’d just open up and tell us the details, like her name, city, and address, we’d send out a posse to kick her witchy little ass. —– Kathryn Litherland                 | People make their own history               Latin American Studies Program     | but they do not make it under       University of Illinois, Chicago    | circumstances of their own choosing                                    |      –Karl Marx, _The 18th Brumaire_

Response:

for me to ask for a kind word. Roy

XOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXO I am sorry she is being a bitch about you seeing the kids.  I could make a voodoo doll with her name on it? Loev, Poopie Pants PS I hope there is a Karma Fairy and your ex gets her just reward

Response:

 The younger one will, as usual, not want to talk to me.

Been there, done that. I just kept calling at the right time, and they will talk if they want to. Later my oldest daughter would surprise me by calling on her own. You are there with them, Roy, believe it. As far as Doc’s statements, not all are bitches, The sterile ones can be trusted, if they have a note from their doc. Otherwise, trust your own doc to take care of you.

Very cynical. Ouchies. But realistic, I suppose. I am sad that you have one in your life. Actually, I have another in my life who is quite wonderful.

 Whatcha kevtchin’ about, then?  Hey, a lot of folks don’t even have *that*. Don’t go sour, have faith. I’m not always sour. Just spewing up some vomit. It will pass.

Just a big ol’ kidney stone, yeah, you’ll be rid of it. I spent a lot of energy being *close* to my kids – moved right within short mortar range of where their mom is living. With all that, I can not even be sure I am doing the right thing – the "confict is bad" crowd would say that since the kids’ mom and I hate each other, I should pack up my troubles, move a thousand miles away and just send a check every week. Maybe they are right, but it is not the path I have chosen, and the path I have chosen is hard, sucks and is exhausting. And I am not even sure if it is the right thing. You make your choices, live with them, and live with yourself. What else are you going to do? Just know what your choices are. Make those choices informed, and get on with your life. Else you’ll end up a tired old, shrivelled up cynical fart like me. Thoughts with you Roy. Give your better half a big hug, and fall asleep in each others’ arms tonight. There is only so much you can do, and the kids’ mom is the kids’ mom. She is their problem, unfortunately. Peace, brother. Best – Fido (Soy un perro, pero ella es una hembra!) Roy

Before you buy.

Response:

"may 99 – now-ex threatens to kill kids." ummm… Roy…does the court know about this??? Donna Before you buy.

Response:

I could make a voodoo doll with her name on it?

No need, Poopster. http://www.virtual-design.com/cgi-bin/Voodoo.pl Have fun! Belle

Response:

"may 99 – now-ex threatens to kill kids." ummm… Roy…does the court know about this???

Fucking court. Someone ought to mail a copy of Roy’s post to the Supreme Court Justice in Georgia or where ever that case was heard. Like they’ll do anything about it, anyway, Scumbags. What outrage I feel. Send a copy to the nitwits at the National Conference of Family Court Justices, too, those morons. No effing recourse when your family is torn apart by these weenies. They could fix it if they wanted to, *but they don’t*. Fuck ‘em. I’m going to bed. Roy, lighten up. I’ll be mad for both of us.   Donna Before you buy.

Before you buy.

Response:

"may 99 – now-ex threatens to kill kids." ummm… Roy…does the court know about this??? Donna

Yes. Didn’t matter. I moved out – four blocks away. I smoked pot. I went and got a girlfriend. The court did not give me time to say "I was in the home all day, every day. I handled 1st grade home school." Your call. What would judge Judy do?

Response:

I’m not always sour. Just spewing up some vomit. It will pass. Just a big ol’ kidney stone, yeah, you’ll be rid of it.

OK. I had a big dry. Geez! Thought I was done with that stuff. I spent a lot of energy being *close* to my kids – moved right within short mortar range of where their mom is living. With all that, I can not even be sure I am doing the right thing – the "confict is bad" crowd would say that since the kids’ mom and I hate each other, I should pack up my troubles, move a thousand miles away and just send a check every week. Maybe they are right, but it is not the path I have chosen, and the path I have chosen is hard, sucks and is exhausting. And I am not even sure if it is the right thing.

I understand. At the time of the moving decision, I thought that the only way she could come down from her insanity was to distance myself. I under-estimated insanity. You make your choices, live with them, and live with yourself. What else are you going to do? Just know what your choices are. Make those choices informed, and get on with your life. Else you’ll end up a tired old, shrivelled up cynical fart like me.

pffffoooooot!!!! Thoughts with you Roy. Give your better half a big hug, and fall asleep in each others’ arms tonight.

Have you ever noticed that two people in bed only need 3 arms? Indeed, one arm is always in the way. There is only so much you can do, and the kids’ mom is the kids’ mom. She is their problem, unfortunately.

They’ll survive. I can’t protect them from the world. Much as I want to. The younger one will be taught to hate me. See responses eslewhere in this thread as to why. Peace, brother. Best – Fido (Soy un perro, pero ella es una hembra!)

Did you ever try "tacos de macho"?

Response:

Roy, you’re a helluva guy. And I like you, too.

Yeah. I know. My step-dad even told me so just before he died. My gf from 27 years ago remembered me and gave up one hell of a lot because she also remembered that I am a nice guy. I keep forgetting.

Response:

for me to ask for a kind word. You and your kids don’t deserve what she’s doing to you, and if you’d just open up and tell us the details, like her name, city, and address, we’d send out a posse to kick her witchy little ass.

Tempting. I do believe that abusive people need to have their behavior "outed". Just can’t bring myself to send her a letter outlining her behavior in this matter – with cc to every family member.

Response:

XOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXO I am sorry she is being a bitch about you seeing the kids.  I could make a voodoo doll with her name on it?

The current fashion is "cultural competence". So, I was thinking about something from the dungeons of Spain, circa 1520. PS I hope there is a Karma Fairy and your ex gets her just reward

Nope. No magical retribution. Well, maybe … I do know that she is angry because she lost a truly marvelous f**k and she burns every nite for that. I can see how she looks me over in our brief child-exchange encounters.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – for me to ask for a kind word. What’s troubling you ? Maybe we can help. Everyone can use a kind word. So, talk, and we’ll listen. Is that a start ? Roy Andre 2 kids now ages 4 and 11 may 98 – moved to apt 4 blocks away. may-dec – almost no contact with kids – a couple of movies with the older kid, some one-on-one soccer at the high school dec 98 – signed visitation agreement, property partition, and all other terms with now-ex xmas holidays 98 – now-ex wants to take the kids to see her parents. I say OK. She doesn’t go, but wipes out my visit time. Xmas eve 98 – now-ex tells kids I am coming over. Does not tell me. jan 99 – now-ex tears up all agreements. gets lawyer. jan-may 99 – regular visits established – ex comes up with something to interfere, so that there is no continuous 24 hour visit spring break 99 – now-ex pull same stunt as xmas holidays 98 may 99 – now-ex threatens to kill kids. memorial weekend 99 – The kid and I "break the rules" and go for a weekend of fishing at the coast. I inform the now-ex by phone. I hang up as she screams and cries. june 99 – court date. "At last .. some legal protection." Wrong! My first testimony was to ask for verification of 4 week summer visit. Judge reduces to 2 weeks. I say "but your honor …" Judge reduces to 5 days and only with older kid. End of hearing. july 99 – I move 3 states away. Take the older kid for 5 days. fly back for 3-day visits in sept and oct 99 Tgiving 99 – kids visit for 1 week. My best friend (illegal from Mexico) give me overnite place to stay and helps with pick-up and airport delivery. Later that day his wife is repeatedly called by now-ex and threatened with legal action. Xmas 99 – one week with kids. Xmas 99 – I begin asking for copies of immunization info. Mar 99 – administrative hearing to file final papers. My lawyer says my presence not needed. Now-ex appears – All rights to participate in decisions on education, medical, etc are cross out in the decree – probably because I smoked pot. Also, she can give me 30 days notice before visit and I have to be tested. Spring break 00 – one week with kids Summer 00 – after several requests to ex and school, still no immunization info. Ex demands to come here and keep kids 3 days/wk during summer visit. 8/1/00 Letter to ex. I will be in town sometime next month on business, but don’t know exact days. Can I visit for weekend without meeting 30 day notice requirements. Also, school does not get out until tues before Xmas. This reduces xmas visit to 6 days. Can they stay for entire holidays? 9/1/00 After no response, I call. She says not to tell kids that I asked to visit in the fall. Says they can stay longer at xmas but she keeps them 3-4 days/wk 9/5/00 f**k her. I make the airline reservations – no she does not come. So, andre, I’m tired. The woman needs one good royal f**king. Any guy here want to help me out?

Well, not in *that* way. I had quite enough of that with my ex, and I am aware that I got off ( relatively ) lightly, as we didn’t make any kids. I shudder when I think of having to be tied to that *itch for the next eighteen years plus, especially in the way that the courts screw fathers. Unfortunately, I have no good ideas as to what you can do. Aside from what I occasionally hear here about finding a father’s rights friendly lawyer, and doing all that one can with the help of such a lawyer to get back was was stolen. At what ages can they state that they might want to be more with you ? I do know that one is likely a decade from this. But, the other may be within a year to three. Does it help in any way that I state that her behavior is pure EVIL, both to you and to the kids ? Someone posted a good article about modern fatherhood here, in the last day or two. It was written by Cathy Young, whose book I own. God, this is surely a time when I wish that I had some power, some ability to affect matters in such a way that you and your kids could have the relationship that you are working so hard to make. No matter what, do take good and proper care of yourself, and do what you can do, in order to relieve some of the fatigue. Folks, try to tell me that a court would do that to a mom. It’s not equal out there, and some of you ladies might find that this is a good reason why some of your men won’t commit to a new relationship. What can you ladies do about that ? Organise, and lend the fathers the support that you got from all the men who marched to get women their rights. You owe them, and you owe the kids. Do it. Now. Andre — " The noblest achievement of the imagination is to make time run some other way, and terminate in beauty and forgivness "                                          David Gelernter, " 1939 "

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for me to ask for a kind word.

Roy, you’re a helluva guy. And I like you, too. Best – Fido Roy

Before you buy.

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so, when some woman posts and say she want ex s2bx to move. Or she plans to leave and take the kids, or, when the guy posts and says he has been asked to leave, I know exactly what is going on. Child abuse, kidnapping, extortion. "I am responsible for my own happiness." – sheesh! new age pop crap!

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for me to ask for a kind word. Roy

Response:

for me to ask for a kind word. Roy

Brenda Before you buy.

Response:

for me to ask for a kind word.

What’s troubling you ? Maybe we can help. Everyone can use a kind word. So, talk, and we’ll listen. Is that a start ? Roy

Andre — " The noblest achievement of the imagination is to make time run some other way, and terminate in beauty and forgivness "                                          David Gelernter, " 1939 "

Response:

for me to ask for a kind word. What’s troubling you ? Maybe we can help. Everyone can use a kind word. So, talk, and we’ll listen. Is that a start ? Roy Andre

2 kids now ages 4 and 11 may 98 – moved to apt 4 blocks away. may-dec – almost no contact with kids – a couple of movies with the older kid, some one-on-one soccer at the high school dec 98 – signed visitation agreement, property partition, and all other terms with now-ex xmas holidays 98 – now-ex wants to take the kids to see her parents. I say OK. She doesn’t go, but wipes out my visit time. Xmas eve 98 – now-ex tells kids I am coming over. Does not tell me. jan 99 – now-ex tears up all agreements. gets lawyer. jan-may 99 – regular visits established – ex comes up with something to interfere, so that there is no continuous 24 hour visit spring break 99 – now-ex pull same stunt as xmas holidays 98 may 99 – now-ex threatens to kill kids. memorial weekend 99 – The kid and I "break the rules" and go for a weekend of fishing at the coast. I inform the now-ex by phone. I hang up as she screams and cries. june 99 – court date. "At last .. some legal protection." Wrong! My first testimony was to ask for verification of 4 week summer visit. Judge reduces to 2 weeks. I say "but your honor …" Judge reduces to 5 days and only with older kid. End of hearing. july 99 – I move 3 states away. Take the older kid for 5 days. fly back for 3-day visits in sept and oct 99 Tgiving 99 – kids visit for 1 week. My best friend (illegal from Mexico) give me overnite place to stay and helps with pick-up and airport delivery. Later that day his wife is repeatedly called by now-ex and threatened with legal action. Xmas 99 – one week with kids. Xmas 99 – I begin asking for copies of immunization info. Mar 99 – administrative hearing to file final papers. My lawyer says my presence not needed. Now-ex appears – All rights to participate in decisions on education, medical, etc are cross out in the decree – probably because I smoked pot. Also, she can give me 30 days notice before visit and I have to be tested. Spring break 00 – one week with kids Summer 00 – after several requests to ex and school, still no immunization info. Ex demands to come here and keep kids 3 days/wk during summer visit. 8/1/00 Letter to ex. I will be in town sometime next month on business, but don’t know exact days. Can I visit for weekend without meeting 30 day notice requirements. Also, school does not get out until tues before Xmas. This reduces xmas visit to 6 days. Can they stay for entire holidays? 9/1/00 After no response, I call. She says not to tell kids that I asked to visit in the fall. Says they can stay longer at xmas but she keeps them 3-4 days/wk 9/5/00 f**k her. I make the airline reservations – no she does not come. So, andre, I’m tired. The woman needs one good royal f**king. Any guy here want to help me out?

Response:

Question:

         I am just starting to learn how to fly fish.  I am currently using my friends equipment.  As I was looking around for my own equipment,  I quickly realized it is not very cheap.  If any one has any older equipment sitting around collecting dust,  I would appreciate it if you would either sell it to me very cheap or give me it to me please. I would be more than happy to pay for all shipping costs.  Please E-mail for my address. Thank you  Scott    

Response:

        I am just starting to learn how to fly fish.  I am currently using my friends equipment.  As I was looking around for my own equipment,  I quickly realized it is not very cheap.  If any one has any older equipment sitting around collecting dust,  I would appreciate it if you would either sell it to me very cheap or give me it to me please. I would be more than happy to pay for all shipping costs.  Please E-mail for my address. Thank you Scott    

Wait till the clave is over.  There are likely going to be a number of multi-piece rods (formerly two piece) that will be on the market – real cheap. Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

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         I am just starting to learn how to fly fish.  I am currently using my friends equipment.  As I was looking around for my own equipment,  I quickly realized it is not very cheap.  If any one has any older equipment sitting around collecting dust,  I would appreciate it if you would either sell it to me very cheap or give me it to me please. I would be more than happy to pay for all shipping costs.  Please E-mail for my address.

Get a Cabela’s catalog. If you can’t afford their stuff you need to find another hobby, — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Get a Cabela’s catalog. If you can’t afford their stuff you need to find another hobby,

Good advice.  You would do that by going to http://www.cabelas.com  You should be able to get started for less than $100, and it’s not bad stuff.  You might try e-bay too.  I’m sure there’s used stuff out there, but it’s hard to find. — Levi "So long, and thanks for all the fish."

Response:

Good advice.  You would do that by going to http://www.cabelas.com  You should be able to get started for less than $100, and it’s not bad stuff.  You might try e-bay too.  I’m sure there’s used stuff out there, but it’s hard to find.

Hard to find?  Nah, there are 272 fly rods for sale on ebay right now.  This one’s about to end, $13.50. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320507767 Regards, Jeff

Response:

         I am just starting to learn how to fly fish.  I am currently using my friends equipment.  As I was looking around for my own equipment,  I quickly realized it is not very cheap.  If any one has any older equipment sitting around collecting dust,  I would appreciate it if you would either sell it to me very cheap or give me it to me please. I would be more than happy to pay for all shipping costs.  Please E-mail for my address.

I started out with a Martin outfit from Wal-Mart a few years ago.  It wasn’t the best, but for just starting out for something like $35.00 you get a 3 piece rod, a reel with backing, and fly line.  You have to buy some leaders and your flies to start, but what the hell for under 50 bucks you can be fly fishing.  Every couple of years I up date and get a new rod and reel set up…come to think about I feel I’m due again  Problem is It seems to keep getting more and more expensive… I just seen a nice 4 weight split bamboo rod at the shop selling for $500 and the reel was around $250….I don’t think the wife will go for this set up though.  I guess I’ll dream for just a little long for now…. anyone have the winning numbers for tonight’s lottery ahead of time? –Randy

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Question:

For any of you who haven’t read the book it is a fun read.  Nice way to spend a couple of those cold winter nights.  Here is part of my entry from "Books of the Black Bass. "Author says he was "raised in the Redneck Way of Fishing."  What he was saying is that numbers and size of fish caught became more important than anything else, thus turning his hobby into work.  Raines grew up in Alabama fishing for Bass, bluegill, crappie, etc.  There is some fly fishing for trout in this book but there is more about the Largemouth and Smallmouth Bass than any other fish.  As you wander through the book you find stories on ex-presidents of the United States, fly fishing legends such as Wulff, Marinaro, McClane, Fox, Kreh, and some Bass world notables such as Ray Scott and Rick Clunn.  Author relates a couple of instances where Scott suffered from foot in the mouth disease as he tried to help his friend, President George Bush, get re-elected.  Raines fished for Bass with Bush although throughout the book he is critical of Hoover, Reagan and other republican presidents.  Time is spent with all the fishing presidents from Hoover and Cleveland down to George Bush and Jimmy Carter.  He speaks out on everyone he writes about and is not afraid to take on the bureaucrats, all in all, an enjoyable read." Clyde Black Bass Book Collector http://members.aol.com/BassBks/index.html

Response:

I currently have for sale a nice copy of "Fly Fishing Through the Midlife Crisis" by Howell Raines. A very clean softcover copy, published in 1994 by Anchor Books. The 352 page book is fresh and clean inside and out, except for a gift inscription inside the front cover. Available for to reserve. Thanks, and best regards. Dave    http://www.newsfeeds.com       The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!

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Question:

Thanks Jim! I think(?) — Tight lines and sharp hooks, Capt. Mark Poirier

Response:

Why are some people compelled to demonstrate their ignorance when they flame others? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – the first schoolies have been boiling off the beaches of the south Cape, Martha’s Vineyard and Nantucket. White clousers, deceivers — small sizes — are catching fish, some up to 28" from the Elizabeth Islands to Harwich, where a few 28" keepers have been landed already.   I don’t give a fat shit what the "law" is, but a 28" striper s NOT a keeper. Get with the program fool!!! — Tight lines and sharp hooks, Capt. Mark Poirier

Response:

28 inches is the new keeper size for recreational fishermen. The Division of Marine Fisheries ruling has been filed with the Secretary of State which puts it into effect immediately. The commercial quotas are still an issue, with a review of the bag limit due to be reheard next month.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The third season of fish reports from Reel-Time: The Internet Journal of Saltwater Fly Fishing kicks off with a new editor, David Peros, who reports the first schoolies have been boiling off the beaches of the south Cape, Martha’s Vineyard and Nantucket. White clousers, deceivers — small sizes — are catching fish, some up to 28" from the Elizabeth Islands to Harwich, where a few 28" keepers have been landed already. Get the full report at: http://www.reel-time.com/fishwire/update-fw.html   I don’t give a fat shit what the "law" is, but a 28" striper s NOT a keeper. Get with the program fool!!! — Tight lines and sharp hooks, Capt. Mark Poirier

Captain Poirier, shy man that he is, confided to me in private correspondence, that what he meant to say was that he disagreed with the taking of 28 inch stripers, as they are pre-spawn fish.  He enncourages everyone to return these fish to the water. If he is correct in calling them pre-spawn fish, I agree with  him.  We have the same situation in California with several game species.  Most responsible anglers add a few inches to the 12 inch calico bass limit, the 22 inch barracuda and halibut  limit, and the 28 inch white seabass limit.  We also return the larger fish so we don’t end up with a gene pool biased to the smaller fish. He is probably going to flame me (in e-mail) again for stepping on his toes.  The last time this gentleman (?) e-mailed me, he called me a "…sprout-eating fool…" from the left coast, and we’d never even corresponded before.  If he has a heart, it could be in the right place. Jim Kozakowski Support the United Anglers of California <http://www.webworldinc.com/unitedanglers-sc/

Response:

The third season of fish reports from Reel-Time: The Internet Journal of Saltwater Fly Fishing kicks off with a new editor, David Peros, who reports the first schoolies have been boiling off the beaches of the south Cape, Martha’s Vineyard and Nantucket. White clousers, deceivers — small sizes — are catching fish, some up to 28" from the Elizabeth Islands to Harwich, where a few 28" keepers have been landed already. Get the full report at: http://www.reel-time.com/fishwire/update-fw.html

  I don’t give a fat shit what the "law" is, but a 28" striper s NOT a keeper. Get with the program fool!!! — Tight lines and sharp hooks, Capt. Mark Poirier

Response:

The third season of fish reports from Reel-Time: The Internet Journal of Saltwater Fly Fishing kicks off with a new editor, David Peros, who reports the first schoolies have been boiling off the beaches of the south Cape, Martha’s Vineyard and Nantucket. White clousers, deceivers — small sizes — are catching fish, some up to 28" from the Elizabeth Islands to Harwich, where a few 28" keepers have been landed already. Get the full report at: http://www.reel-time.com/fishwire/update-fw.html

Response:

Question:

I  have a friend that has an old fly rod and wants to know how much it is worth.  I’m not familiar with this particular sport, but thought maybe someone could point me to a book or internet site that would be helpful.   The information he gave me was that it is made by Wright and McGill, Eagle Claw, Trailmaster 6′9", Model VM8TM, Line size 7", mini serrules. You can either email me directly (as I am not a reader of this group), or just reply here in the group and I will come back each day for a few days. Thank you for your help. Richard Fitzgerald

Response:

  Dick Spurr’s Classis Chronicle page is reachable from my homepage listed below.  Hope this helps . . . http://www.kings.edu/~lsgorney/index.htm – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I  have a friend that has an old fly rod and wants to know how much it is worth.  I’m not familiar with this particular sport, but thought maybe someone could point me to a book or internet site that would be helpful.   The information he gave me was that it is made by Wright and McGill, Eagle Claw, Trailmaster 6′9", Model VM8TM, Line size 7", mini serrules. You can either email me directly (as I am not a reader of this group), or just reply here in the group and I will come back each day for a few days. Thank you for your help. Richard Fitzgerald

Response:

I  have a friend that has an old fly rod and wants to know how much it is worth.  I’m not familiar with this particular sport, but thought maybe someone could point me to a book or internet site that would be helpful. The information he gave me was that it is made by Wright and McGill, Eagle Claw, Trailmaster 6′9", Model VM8TM, Line size 7", mini serrules. You can either email me directly (as I am not a reader of this group), or just reply here in the group and I will come back each day for a few days. Thank you for your help.

I beleive I had owned one of these rods in the mid ’70’s. A great pack rod then. I also beleive that is a combonation spin/fly,swapping the handle around to accomadate your fishing needs. I used an HCH or an HDH double taper, this sounds sort of dated but that’s the facts. Caught many fish on both spin and fly. IMHO, it was a better spin rod than a fly rod. It was all the 7wt. line rating and maybe a little more, a real noodle comparied to todays graphites. Do I miss it? Yes, just the backcountry memories. If you look close on the lable it should say that it has a life time guarantee, too. Paid about $50 new ‘74. I heard that this rod was to go back into production for around $110-145 last year or this. Your friends rod worth about $50-70 Doug Knight Posting on the road this weekend I want NO SPAM in this box, You are for warned

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Question:

Can anyone point me in the direction of Mail Order companies that sell a good range of Fly fishing books. Thanks Simon Simon Lusk Fly Fishing New Zealand on the WWW http://www-aghort.massey.ac.nz/flyfish/intro Department of Consumer Technology Massey University Palmerston North New Zealand

Response:

Hi Three that come to mind are: Dan Bailey’s 1-800-356-4052 Kaufman’s Streamborn  1-800-442-4359 Cabela’s Fly Fishing 1-800-237-4444 Give the 800 # a call and request a catalog. Good Luck Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (catalog avail)

Response:

Try         The Anglers Art         P. O. Box 148         Plainfield, PA 17081         phone (717) 243-9721         fax (717) 243-8603 Very complete and very friendly and helpful. Cheers

Response:

Can anyone point me in the direction of Mail Order companies that sell a good range of Fly fishing books. Thanks Simon

I was just looking through a magazine (about a year old) this morning that had an advertisement.  They claim to have hundreds of titles to choose from.  They are: The Angler’s Art Box 148 Plainfield, PA   17081 Their phone number is:  717-243-9721 and fax line 717-243-8603 Curtis

Response:

Drop an email note to the Brookside Angler in Manchester, VT. They have an extensive list of titles available. Web address http://www.sover.net/~batenkil/flyshop.html

Response:

I’m interested in buying a quality 3 wt outfit – like a Sage LL379 or Thomas & Thomas 7′6" 3 wt paired with possibly a Lamson.  Any dealers or individuals interested in making me an attractive (discounted) offer for the package?. Please contact me by E’mail. Thanks, Mike Ray Atlatna, GA Cashiers, NC

Response:

Drop an email note to the Brookside Angler in Manchester, VT. They have an extensive list of titles available. Web address http://www.sover.net/~batenkil/flyshop.html

Yes try the Merlin Unwin Books catalogue at www.demon.co.uk/M_Unwin_Books or email me for further details Regards

Response:

Can anyone point me in the direction of Mail Order companies that sell a good range of Fly fishing books.

Bennetts of sheffield stock a wide range of videos/ books on the subject. http:/www.dmatters.co.uk/toshops2.html will give you their telephone and fax numbers – just ask them what they have and they will either mail/fax/telephone you. or email them http://www.dmatters.co.uk

Response:

Question:

: Permits are not necessary. This is not entirely true, folks coming from the states have to have Crown Land Camping Permits to camp on any Crown Land north of the French/Mattawa line. I’m not sure about whether it is still in force, but I heard that the price was up to $10/percson/day. — Dave Robinson Toronto, Ont. Canada

Response:

You do need a permit if you are a U.S. citizen and not using a Canadian outfitter.  If you have a guide, rented a canoe or were outfitted by a Canadian store, you do not need a permit. I had a waiver from the ONtario MNR a few years ago because I was leading a group from a non-profit organization.  They gave me a letter exempting us from the permit for our trip. – Andrew — Andrew Lederman SMD ‘97 University of Virginia

Response:

I’m planning a canoe trip to Wabakimi Provincial Park, Ontario.  Anyone have any info on that area?  I understand that I can have a train drop us off at the park.  Is this true?  Does anyone know if there is a fee for camping?  I would really like to know what the area is like.  My only info so far is the book "Canoeing Ontario’s Rivers" by Ron Reid and Janet Grand.  I haven’t planned a date yet, but I’m thinking about mid to late August.  Any info would be helpful. Thanks!!! Dick Raffl

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I’m planning a canoe trip to Wabakimi Provincial Park, Ontario. Anyone have any info on that area?  I understand that I can have a train drop us off at the park.  Is this true?  Does anyone know if there is a fee for camping?  I would really like to know what the area is like.  My only info so far is the book "Canoeing Ontario’s Rivers" by Ron Reid and Janet Grand.  I haven’t planned a date yet, but I’m thinking about mid to late August.  Any info would be helpful. Thanks!!! Dick Raffl

Write to :   Ontario Ministry Of Natural Resources              P.O. Box 970, Nipigon              Ontario POT  2J0 Ask them to sent you the brochure Nipigon Canoe Routes. This will outline all of the possible routes in the Wabakimi area. You can then select a route and write to them for more detailed information such as portages, ect.  It is possible to take the train from Armstrong and have them drop you off at the Allanwater bridge: from there you take a route that brings you back through Caribou Lake. Permits are not necessary. A word of caution: some of these lakes are quite large; it’s easy to become windbound for several days. There is also a lot of fly-in fishing traffic in this area, but once you get out it can be very remote.

Response:

Question:

Does anyone know if you can fly to Karluk and just camp on the beach there and fish?  There is a lodge there; I wonder if they have any monopoly on fishing in the Karluk river. This is on the southwest coast of Kodiak Island, in Alaska. Appreciate any feedback anyone can give.  

Response:

I would always be careful about camping on the beach in any location where there are substantial numbers of brown bears.  You can fly into Brooks River, for example, and camp in a USFS camp site as well as stay at the lodge.  But in the camp site, just a little way off the beach, all the food has to be cached.  And all the fish have to be cleaned in a single building, far away from the camp site. I’d check with locals on the available faciltiies at Karluk river.

04:57:08 GMT – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Does anyone know if you can fly to Karluk and just camp on the beach there and fish?  There is a lodge there; I wonder if they have any monopoly on fishing in the Karluk river.

Response:

| | Does anyone know if you can fly to Karluk and just camp on the beach | there and fish?  There is a lodge there; I wonder if they have any | monopoly on fishing in the Karluk river. | Hello, I was on the Karluk for a week this fall. Drifted to the mouth and camped on the beach. There are bears (big bears !) and you do need to be careful. Limited cabins (primitive) are availble at Portage. The real monopoly if you want to call it that is access. Very interesting and productive river. Regards, Jeff

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