Question:

New neighbor called today–His moving van is arriving tomorrow afternoon but he heard I was a fisherman  and wanted to know if I would go fishing with him 6;30 AM-I ask do you have a boat- yes its at the marina-I will call they gas it up and put it in the water for us-what type of gear should I bring? Oh don’t worry I have clark spoones- rods- planners etc–also have two new 9wt scott rods we might give a try if the mackerls or blues are hitting on top,. Guys if you don"t hear from me anymore just know I have gone to heaven. Indian Joe Wilmington NC

Response:

New neighbor called today–His moving van is arriving tomorrow afternoon but he heard I was a fisherman  and wanted to know if I would go fishing with him 6;30 AM-I ask do you have a boat- yes its at the marina-I will call they gas it up and put it in the water for us-what type of gear should I bring? Oh don’t worry I have clark spoones- rods- planners etc–also have two new 9wt scott rods we might give a try if the mackerls or blues are hitting on top,. Guys if you don"t hear from me anymore just know I have gone to heaven. Indian Joe Wilmington NC

Now you can mooch some serious flies, IJ

Response:

Oh don’t worry I have clark spoones- rods- planners etc–also have two new 9wt scott rods we might give a try if the mackerls or blues are hitting on top,. Guys if you don"t hear from me anymore just know I have gone to heaven. Indian Joe Wilmington NC

The one thing I figured out the last time I fished for ’spannies’ is that you can’t strip line too fast. Man, it’s fun to get into a bunch of those little torpedoes. — Charlie…

Response:

Question:

In these trying times, when there has to be just one more way to make yet another dollar, I sense a marketing opportunity. Let me guess. You’re going to hire "mules" to smuggle hooks on airplanes. I suppose they’ll have to swallow them.

     Even better. These are high tech stainless hooks, so they aren’t dissolved by stomach acids. All the mule has to do is swallow them, then get      I was in with you on this one RW, but maybe we ought to think it a little more.       Charlie,       at least I hope they’re barbless

Response:

I take that back, I bet the right marketer could have offices in every major airport within two years…..who wants to hear my idea? john

Response:

I take that back, I bet the right marketer could have offices in every major airport within two years…..who wants to hear my idea? john

fire away, I’m on pins and needles  . . . Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

…..who wants to hear my idea?

Shoot.

Response:

we’re waiting       Handyman          Mike

Response:

In these trying times, when there has to be just one more way to make yet another dollar, I sense a marketing opportunity.

Let me guess. You’re going to hire "mules" to smuggle hooks on airplanes. I suppose they’ll have to swallow them. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

In these trying times, when there has to be just one more way to make yet another dollar, I sense a marketing opportunity. Somewhere along the line of two or three hundred dollars and flight….for the airlines. Anybody in here close enough to that industry to let me bend their ear a bit?  I mean this marvelous idea came from discussing fly fishing, so this post is only kinda sorta off topic. There is no profit or gain for you or I. I just have a question. john

Response:

Question:

Good Info snipped Montana is an example of a state that finally got around to doing it in the early/mid 1980’s, and most of us now know it as the Montana Stream Access Law. Actually early 70’s. It is being challenged in court right now by some big ranchers in the Ruby.

Is Ted Turner one of them? I understand his ranch is on the Ruby. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

I’m not sure. The ranch owners are "non-native Montanans" with big $$, and, apparently, being instigated and led by a guy named Reid Rosenthal, who (if I have the story correct) has been trying to get it turned to private access. He’s gone as far as stirring up the Madison county commissioners, saying that a (any?) bridge over the Ruby, even though the road on both sides is public county road, is NOT public and therefore there is no legal access to the river at that point. As I understand it, he was ’shot down in flames’. My explanation listed above is a ’simplistic’ overview of the situation. I’m sure there are other aspects I don’t know. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana http://www.montana.com/dno/dno.htm 406-626-4022

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Good Info snipped Montana is an example of a state that finally got around to doing it in the early/mid 1980’s, and most of us now know it as the Montana Stream Access Law. Actually early 70’s. It is being challenged in court right now by some big ranchers in the Ruby. Is Ted Turner one of them? I understand his ranch is on the Ruby. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

early/mid 1980’s … Montana Stream Access Law. Actually early 70’s. It is being challenged in court right now by some big ranchers in the Ruby.

As explained to me, a landowner/angler conflict on one of the Yellowstone River spring creeks and a landowner/raft conflict on another river (NW section of Montana) (the landowner drove his rig over a group’s beached raft) during the 70’s/80’s motivated passage of Montana’s stream access law sometime in the early 1980’s. I attended Montana State from 81-88, and recall when the law went into effect as many of the streams I had been fishing with permission the prior year or two were suddendly closed in protest.  Signs reading "don’t bother to ask, NO" popped up all over Montana. My roommates and I simply filled our vests with Stream Access brochures and hit the road.  We were shot over (30-06) on Bridger Creek NW of Bozeman before the landowner called the Sheriff and tried to have us arrested. The event caused the Sheriff’s department to met with other state agencies and get clarity on the finer points of the new law.  Three days after the event, a deputy offered to fish Bridger Creek by the rules to see if he would he harassed, and Fish & Game wanted feedback on whether we were harassed again, since they were willing to take action against the landowner. Key point was that we climbed over the landowners barbed wire fence at the point where it was attached to the bridge, but it is illegal for landowners to attach their fences to public structures (the bridge) and it is illegal for landowners to deny passage over public right-of-ways, and most bridges have a substantial right-of-way area just up and downstream of the road. The state generally does not enforce the rules as a matter of convenience to the landowner, but landowners can’t use such configurations to keep the public out. Several weeks later, we accessed another portion of Bridger Creek from the road (public access), but immediately had to hike out of the flood plain to get around a man-made diversion dam. The landowner saw us and a toe-to-toe threat-fest began.  Ultimately it was his wife yelling from the pickup "let’s go honey" that broke up the moment, but the technical point here was that man-made structures *in* the stream cannot be used to deny passage up and down a stream, and the public is entitled to portage around such structures within reason, even if it means going outside the high water mark. Then there was Dry Creek… Then there was Sixteen Mile Creek… Though I believe in the public access, and am willing to force the issue, I have always tried to ask anyway, as a courtesy.  They can get a sense of who I am, let me know of any issues they are having with other anglers, and hopefully both of us can relax. Thomas Gilg

Response:

Well, if the price is right, maybe we can talk. Wolfgang tell Mike I said hello

Go visit him yourself. You’ve got time to travel. Bog, man, you’re not even a hundred yet. "Goddamn, well I declare! Have you seen the like?Their walls are  built from  cannonballs; their motto is ‘don’t tread on me’" -Uncle Jerry

Response:

It’s amazing to me how the brain remembers things. The controversy and debate over stream access went on for a long time and was not passed till 1985. I had it in my head it was way before that. Oh, well… when you’re wrong, you’re wrong. And I was beginning to guide then too. I think I need to upgrade and add more ‘memory’ !! — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana http://www.montana.com/dno/dno.htm 406-626-4022

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – early/mid 1980’s … Montana Stream Access Law. Actually early 70’s. It is being challenged in court right now by some big ranchers in the Ruby. As explained to me, a landowner/angler conflict on one of the Yellowstone River spring creeks and a landowner/raft conflict on another river (NW section of Montana) (the landowner drove his rig over a group’s beached raft) during the 70’s/80’s motivated passage of Montana’s stream access law sometime in the early 1980’s. I attended Montana State from 81-88, and recall when the law went into effect as many of the streams I had been fishing with permission the prior year or two were suddendly closed in protest.  Signs reading "don’t bother to ask, NO" popped up all over Montana. My roommates and I simply filled our vests with Stream Access brochures and hit the road.  We were shot over (30-06) on Bridger Creek NW of Bozeman before the landowner called the Sheriff and tried to have us arrested. The event caused the Sheriff’s department to met with other state agencies and get clarity on the finer points of the new law.  Three days after the event, a deputy offered to fish Bridger Creek by the rules to see if he would he harassed, and Fish & Game wanted feedback on whether we were harassed again, since they were willing to take action against the landowner. Key point was that we climbed over the landowners barbed wire fence at the point where it was attached to the bridge, but it is illegal for landowners to attach their fences to public structures (the bridge) and it is illegal for landowners to deny passage over public right-of-ways, and most bridges have a substantial right-of-way area just up and downstream of the road. The state generally does not enforce the rules as a matter of convenience to the landowner, but landowners can’t use such configurations to keep the public out. Several weeks later, we accessed another portion of Bridger Creek from the road (public access), but immediately had to hike out of the flood plain to get around a man-made diversion dam. The landowner saw us and a toe-to-toe threat-fest began.  Ultimately it was his wife yelling from the pickup "let’s go honey" that broke up the moment, but the technical point here was that man-made structures *in* the stream cannot be used to deny passage up and down a stream, and the public is entitled to portage around such structures within reason, even if it means going outside the high water mark. Then there was Dry Creek… Then there was Sixteen Mile Creek… Though I believe in the public access, and am willing to force the issue, I have always tried to ask anyway, as a courtesy.  They can get a sense of who I am, let me know of any issues they are having with other anglers, and hopefully both of us can relax. Thomas Gilg

Response:

Oregon also has some active private angling clubs that have acquired access rights.  I forget the name of the one group (bait/spinners/flies), but they have locked down several prime sections of Oregon’s coastal streams.

I live in PDX. Couldja track down the names of those clubs? Thanks!

Response:

<snipped Steve, No the problem is that I have a right to fish that river, because there is a publicly available entrance to that river.  I am not trespassing on the land; I am traveling along the riverbank between the high and low water mark. There was never any No Trespassing Signs, No Hunting, and No Fishing until Troubums2 made the arrangements with the landowner. bc. — Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. -Benjamin Franklin

Response:

United States Penitentiary, Atlanta, Georgia; 1974.

My arrest/control class, Lakewood, CO, 1999. And then again last week when my pepper canister sprung a leak and I got soaked with 90 minutes left in my shift. I carry my OC on the front, and some of it soaked through my pants and hit, um, some sensitive skin. That SUCKED!!!!! It was worse than drinking Coors while listening to teenage boy bands and eating day-old Original Hamburger Stand chili dogs! Mike, who prefers to solve problems with bullshit instead of pepper spray-some of it might splash back on me. "Goddamn, well I declare! Have you seen the like?Their walls are  built from  cannonballs; their motto is ‘don’t tread on me’" -Uncle Jerry

Response:

….Mike….prefers to solve problems with bullshit instead of pepper spray-some of it might splash back on me.

Considering some of the bullshit that sprays back on one here I suggest you might not want to be too hasty about that decision.    :) Wolfgang SPLAT!

Response:

blackcat, Why don’t you post the name of the fly shop as "off limits" to repay them? Ernie "blackcat" wrote Willi, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There is a section on the Upper Provo in Utah above Jordanelle Reservoir that has signs posted No Trespassing, No Fishing, and No Hunting. One of the local fly shops made a deal with the landowner and they posted all those signs last year. It’s too bad.  It is a really nice stretch of water to fish and I’ll miss it. bc.

Response:

… "private" areas for a local shop … wondering if this is a trend around the Country or is it a Colorado thing?

In recent years, several fly shops in Oregon have aggressively gone after special arrangements with land owners.  In most of the cases I’m aware of, the landowner has historically permitted limited access but is stressed/tired of it and is generally happy when someone else offers to control the access in exchange for some money. In addition to fly shops, Oregon also has some active private angling clubs that have acquired access rights.  I forget the name of the one group (bait/spinners/flies), but they have locked down several prime sections of Oregon’s coastal streams. I am also aware of rural landowners whos cattle and/or timber based income has dropped, so they are turning to selling hunting and fishing access. The lower section of one stream I regularily fish has an awsome run of chinook salmon, and ~25 individuals from mostly California (I only know of one from Oregon) have been paying $25,000 per year for exclusive access.  Though $1,000 isn’t for a regular weekend warrior, for the Joe who gets out 1-week a year and wants to be assured of a wiggle on the end of their rod, not unreasonable. Thomas Gilg – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

I’ve paid more than that to have my rod wiggled for a week……john

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – … "private" areas for a local shop … wondering if this is a trend around the Country or is it a Colorado thing? In recent years, several fly shops in Oregon have aggressively gone after special arrangements with land owners.  In most of the cases I’m aware of, the landowner has historically permitted limited access but is stressed/tired of it and is generally happy when someone else offers to control the access in exchange for some money. In addition to fly shops, Oregon also has some active private angling clubs that have acquired access rights.  I forget the name of the one group (bait/spinners/flies), but they have locked down several prime sections of Oregon’s coastal streams. I am also aware of rural landowners whos cattle and/or timber based income has dropped, so they are turning to selling hunting and fishing access. The lower section of one stream I regularily fish has an awsome run of chinook salmon, and ~25 individuals from mostly California (I only know of one from Oregon) have been paying $25,000 per year for exclusive access.  Though $1,000 isn’t for a regular weekend warrior, for the Joe who gets out 1-week a year and wants to be assured of a wiggle on the end of their rod, not unreasonable. Thomas Gilg

Response:

We have a little different deal going on here in Texas which has always had very little public water other than hugh lakes. The Great Texas Bass Club has about a hundred tanks on private ranches and farms leased which members can use for prices varying from 20 to 40 bucks for from 1/2 to full day. This was water that was never available to us before. There is a hell of a lot of good fishing on these places. On most of these places a float tube or small boat with an electric motor or canoe does just great. This could wrok well in other areas and is one of those things where everyone wins. Big Dale

Response:

<snipped There is plenty of land posted No Hunting – No Fishing.  This section though has the Utah State Special Fishing Regulations Signs up along that section and it was only recently that the No Hunting, No Fishing, No Trespassing signs were posted. It has been almost a year since I was last up there. And in Utah, the land owners own the river bottom, so even wading it, you are breaking the law. bc. — Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. -Benjamin Franklin

Response:

<snipped Ernie, If I knew with out a doubt that it was the fly shop everyone has told me it was, I would post their name.  I just sent them an email asking them if they were the shop that guided that stretch of the Provo.   bc. — Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. -Benjamin Franklin

Response:

Hmmm. So the gist of Ernie’s (and, by inference, your) opinion is that the fly shop should be castigated for the way they use that (leased) private land, correct? I don’t quite agree with that, nor do I completely disagree. But the "problem" is really that the land is private in the first place, isn’t it? –Steve – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ernie, If I knew with out a doubt that it was the fly shop everyone has told me it was, I would post their name.  I just sent them an email asking them if they were the shop that guided that stretch of the Provo.

Response:

Hmmm. So the gist of Ernie’s (and, by inference, your) opinion is that the fly shop should be castigated for the way they use that (leased) private land, correct? I don’t quite agree with that, nor do I completely disagree. But the "problem" is really that the land is private in the first place, isn’t it?

Our perceptions are greatly influenced by the familiar.  Having grown up with public ownership of riparian rights in Wisconsin, I find the notion that an individual, a club, or a corporation can own a stream bottom or even the right to float on top of it to be bizarre.  Of course, my feelings on this issue are also colored by ambivalence concerning the private ownership of land in general, and that fact that I have never owned any real estate myself.  And then the whole thing is further complicated by the old state’s rights versus central governmental control conundrum.  It’s easy enough to be skeptical about the wisdom, let alone the effectiveness, of federal control of resources nation wide, but I sometimes think that a single set of coherent policies would at least be easier to grapple with than the bewildering array of laws and rationales we have to contend with today. Wolfgang in the market for an underutilized planet

Response:

Wolfgang in the market for an underutilized planet

tanstaafl wulfie! i’ve got 22 adjoining lunacres fer sale. kinda dry fishin’ but gahdangitall, you can double haul 600′ !!! <g waldo, have space suit, will travel.

Response:

Well, if the price is right, maybe we can talk. Wolfgang tell Mike I said hello

Now there’s a candidate I could support… — Charlie…

Response:

Well, if the price is right, maybe we can talk. Wolfgang tell Mike I said hello

have yer guy call my guy to set up lunch. uhmmmm, mikey doesn’t "live" here anymore. afterall, the moon is a harsh mistress. waldo

Response:

And in Utah, the land owners own the river bottom, so even wading it, you are breaking the law.

Really? Other than some of the early US states back east, most/all of the states from the mid-west to the west were created by the federal government and given land "in the public trust". The state’s trustees (i.e. governor and legislature) were then obligated to, among other things, determine which waters had commercial uses (includes navigation, but is not limited to), and as a state *maintain public access* to such waters. Very few states followed through on this matter at statehood time, and those states that still have not done it are still obligated to. While states can drag their feet on this obligation, they cannot bypass it and relinquish public access potentials to private concerns. I was told that Washington is an example of a state that did their required homework at statehood time. Montana is an example of a state that finally got around to doing it in the early/mid 1980’s, and most of us now know it as the Montana Stream Access Law. Oregon is an example of a state that is finally getting around to it, with the Division of State Land accepting petitions from the public on what rivers to study first.  Within all of Oregon, only 13 river segments (e.g. Willamette up to Harrisburg, but not above) had been previously studied and formally declared public by the state of Oregon. The Association of Northwest Steelheaders has been leading a coalition of angling groups, including the Oregon Council of the FFF, to keep the ball rolling and to fight bills in the state legislature which have attempted to privatize many waters in the state rather than have to defeat them in a more costly fashion by going to court and bringing up the rock-solid public trust obligation. Regarding landowners "owning the river bottom".  Many older land deeds/titles may claim ownership of the bed and bank, but there is no legal standing for the deeds/titles to make such claims. Most title companies will not write new titles that claim bed/bank ownership since they know it is a false claim.  I know of realtors that likewise know the falsehood of anyone claiming bed/bank ownership, but most realtors do not have the technical/legal expertise or patience to correct the problem. Having said that, let me warn you that many landowners are sticking to the bed/bank claims and are quite willing to enforce it in any means they see fit, and I’ve been in several toe-to-toe battles with landowners where the far wiser option was to move on rather than risk a shotgun blast. A year or two ago in Oregon, and landowner had a bank fisherman arrested for violating his bed/bank ownership. As soon as the trepassing charge started heading to court, the landowner dropped the charges, most likely because he realized that the courts would overturn his claim and the river segment he was on would be studied by the state and no doubt be formally declared public. Thomas Gilg

Response:

Good Info snipped Montana is an example of a state that finally got around to doing it in the early/mid 1980’s, and most of us now know it as the Montana Stream Access Law.

Actually early 70’s. It is being challenged in court right now by some big ranchers in the Ruby. More good stuff snipped Regarding landowners "owning the river bottom".  Many older land deeds/titles may claim ownership of the bed and bank, but there is no legal standing for the deeds/titles to make such claims. Most title companies will not write new titles that claim bed/bank ownership since they know it is a false claim. I know of realtors that likewise know the falsehood of anyone claiming bed/bank ownership, but most realtors do not have the technical/legal expertise or patience to correct the problem.

Yes, to a point. I’ve seen it here where deeds are written and plats drawn and recorded that show a private property boundary to the LOW water mark of a river (or lake) yet the state says that anything between the HIGH water mark is ‘public domain’. Go figure. I also know of some folks who pay property taxes on a large river bed of which they own both sides. Sometimes, it is so confusing, you don’t know who to believe. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana http://www.montana.com/dno/dno.htm 406-626-4022

Response:

For more details on stream access, read:      http://www.oregonlive.com/news/99/03/st032107.html Note the comment regarding 38 other states. Thomas Gilg

Response:

I was talking with Charlie W. the other day about the difficulties in getting access to fishing on private land or access to go through private land to get to public areas to fish. Not that long ago, 10 years or so, it was fairly easy to get access from ranchers as long you approached them in a courteous manner. Charlie’s answer was that this is because the fly shops have approached every rancher with river, stream and lake access and offered them money for a lease. The result is that the ranchers that used to allow fishing access, still do but only to people paying money to the fly shops. At the time, I wasn’t too sure of his explanation. However, as I thought more about it, I realized that a number of areas where I used to get access are now "private" areas for a local shop. I know there are other factors contributing to this, but I was wondering if this is a trend around the Country or is it a Colorado thing? Willi

Response:

It is a trend around the world. As soon as a demand for such areas becomes apparent, and the owners realise that there is money to be made from them, commercial enterprise moves in. "Exclusivity" in this case is a valuable commodity. Also, many owners have been disappointed or upset, by people who have misused their generosity in the past, which does not make them kindly predisposed to allowing others access. This unfortunate trend may be observed practically everywhere. It appears to be one of the  symptoms of capitalist society in general.  Recreation is rapidly becoming one of the greatest single earning "industries", and the effects of this will inevitably continue with probably very far-reaching results. TL MC — "If you have tried everything you know, and nothing works, then perhaps it is time to accept that you don

Question:

I’ve finally put up some photos of Christmas Island on my web site. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

I’ve finally put up some photos of Christmas Island on my web site.

GREAT PICS!!  Looks like one terrific time! — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

Response:

I’ve finally put up some photos of Christmas Island on my web site.

Um, just a warning to everyone out there… Steve’s pictorial has pictures of boobies in it. OK, I warned you. –Steve

Response:

I’ve finally put up some photos of Christmas Island on my web site. Um, just a warning to everyone out there… Steve’s pictorial has pictures of boobies in it. OK, I warned you. –Steve

Correction. Just one boobie. Bruce caught it while trolling for trevally. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Nice. Why do they call it Christmas Island ? — TW – Halfordian Golfer "Guilt replaced the Creel" "A cash flow runs through it" "It is impossible to catch and release a wild trout"

Response:

Nice. Why do they call it Christmas Island ?

Captain Cook set ashore there on Christmas Day. It’s part of the Republic of Kiribati. (The capital is Tarawa.) It’s not to be confused with the other Christmas Island in the Indian Ocean. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

As with most English sounding place names, it was named by one of the first white guys to visit there. Captain William Mynors of the East India Ship Company vessel, the Royal Mary, named the island when he arrived on Christmas Day, 25th December, 1643.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Nice. Why do they call it Christmas Island ? — TW – Halfordian Golfer "Guilt replaced the Creel" "A cash flow runs through it" "It is impossible to catch and release a wild trout"

Response:

As with most English sounding place names, it was named by one of the first white guys to visit there.

In this case, those white guys may have been the first ever to visit. The island was uninhabited at the time. All they found were a few palm trees, a lot of turtles, and one shitload of birds. The island was deemed "uninhabitable", although the present-day native seem to be making a go of it. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

[deleted] Captain Cook set ashore there on Christmas Day. It’s part of the Republic of Kiribati. (The capital is Tarawa.) It’s not to be confused with the other Christmas Island in the Indian Ocean.

Thanks. I wonder if he had a Sage 890RPL under the tree so that he could bone fish. Your pal, — TW – Halfordian Golfer "Guilt replaced the Creel" "A cash flow runs through it" "It is impossible to catch and release a wild trout"

Response:

[deleted] Captain William Mynors of the East India Ship Company vessel, the Royal Mary, named the island when he arrived on Christmas Day, 25th December, 1643.

That must be the other one ? — TW – Halfordian Golfer "Guilt replaced the Creel" "A cash flow runs through it" "It is impossible to catch and release a wild trout"

Response:

[deleted] Captain William Mynors of the East India Ship Company vessel, the Royal Mary, named the island when he arrived on Christmas Day, 25th December, 1643. That must be the other one ?

I’m afraid Stan is referring to the discovery of the OTHER Christmas Island. The one in the Indian Ocean. Common mistake. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Amazing… that trevally almost of my chair. Is that a digitally enhanced fish, or is it really _that_ big? Herman I’ve finally put up some photos of Christmas Island on my web site. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

–         Cheers, Herman         Herman Nijland         Daytime webmaster         Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

Amazing… that trevally almost of my chair. Is that a digitally enhanced fish, or is it really _that_ big? Herman

It’s really that big. I got the picture from Bill Kiene. The fisherman is Kevin Thompson of the Sage Rod Company . — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Make that knocked me out of my chair. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Amazing… that trevally almost of my chair. Is that a digitally enhanced fish, or is it really _that_ big? Herman I’ve finally put up some photos of Christmas Island on my web site. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam) —         Cheers, Herman         Herman Nijland         Daytime webmaster         Lifetime flyfisher

–         Cheers, Herman         Herman Nijland         Daytime webmaster         Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

I wonder if he had a Sage 890RPL under the tree so that he could bone fish.

Personally I prefer to bone fish with a fillet knife, but to each his own. Pat K

Response:

Greetings: I wonder if he had a Sage 890RPL under the tree so that he could bone fish.

Personally I prefer to bone fish with a fillet knife, but to each his own.

Pat K

Just curious:   Do people _eat_ bone fish?  I am going to have an opportunity to fish for them a bit, for the first time, next January.  (I’ll be asking for help and advise later as the time gets closer, folks  :-)) Cheers,  -Mark

Response:

I wonder if he had a Sage 890RPL under the tree so that he could bone fish. Personally I prefer to bone fish with a fillet knife, but to each his own.

Just to be certain…you must know that I am usually fairly pedantic in my word usage and that the original sentence appeared as I intended. To wit: To "bone" something does not necessarily imply the removal of internal skeletal matter though that may be an undesired side affect of a really violent ‘boning’.  It does, however, imply the use of certain cylindrical erectile tissues in the act (as the verb ‘bone’).  The mimicked sheaths of the noun are often displayed proudly by the male of certain tribal customs. (Yes, I fear that I may have awoke the sleeping mountie with that last bit of imagery) Your pal, — TW – Halfordian Golfer "Guilt replaced the Creel" "A cash flow runs through it" "It is impossible to catch and release a wild trout"

Response:

Just curious: Do people _eat_ bone fish?  I am going to have an opportunity to fish for them a bit, for the first time, next January.  (I’ll be asking for help and advise later as the time gets closer, folks  :-))

Yes, they do, but not on Christmas Island. Because bonefish often travel in schools along the shore they’re very easy to net, much to the detriment of sportfishing. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Yep, wrong island.  I didn’t know there were two – I got the Australian version in the Indian Ocean.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [deleted] Captain William Mynors of the East India Ship Company vessel, the Royal Mary, named the island when he arrived on Christmas Day, 25th December, 1643. That must be the other one ?

Response:

Nice. Why do they call it Christmas Island ? Captain Cook set ashore there on Christmas Day. It’s part of the Republic of Kiribati. (The capital is Tarawa.) It’s not to be confused with the other Christmas Island in the Indian Ocean.

Is this the same Christmas Island where the millions of red land crabs migrate to the ocean to lay eggs every year?  I saw a Discovery Channel special on that and it looked like quite an impressive thing to see. — Levi "So long, and thanks for all the fish."

Response:

Nice. Why do they call it Christmas Island ? Captain Cook set ashore there on Christmas Day. It’s part of the Republic of Kiribati. (The capital is Tarawa.) It’s not to be confused with the other Christmas Island in the Indian Ocean. Is this the same Christmas Island where the millions of red land crabs migrate to the ocean to lay eggs every year?  I saw a Discovery Channel special on that and it looked like quite an impressive thing to see.

Nope, that’s the other one. They have ample numbers of land crabs, though. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

hmmm…then, i assume the "sleeping mountie" is a "bone" technique? jeff (in full monty) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I wonder if he had a Sage 890RPL under the tree so that he could bone fish. Personally I prefer to bone fish with a fillet knife, but to each his own. Just to be certain…you must know that I am usually fairly pedantic in my word usage and that the original sentence appeared as I intended. To wit: To "bone" something does not necessarily imply the removal of internal skeletal matter though that may be an undesired side affect of a really violent ‘boning’.  It does, however, imply the use of certain cylindrical erectile tissues in the act (as the verb ‘bone’).  The mimicked sheaths of the noun are often displayed proudly by the male of certain tribal customs. (Yes, I fear that I may have awoke the sleeping mountie with that last bit of imagery) Your pal, — TW – Halfordian Golfer "Guilt replaced the Creel" "A cash flow runs through it" "It is impossible to catch and release a wild trout"

Response:

Yep, wrong island.  I didn’t know there were two – I got the Australian version in the Indian Ocean.

I suspect its that old International Date Line thing.  Probably the same island; just depends whether you’re looking at it from yesterday or tomorrow, compounded by the fact that when viewed from Australia the whole damn thing would be upside down and thus rendered unrecognizable anyway.  Moreover, the English would throw in an extra u somewhere in the middle or a superfluous e at the end, merely adding to the confusion.  The French on the other hand, would further muddy the issue by giving it an entirely unpronounceable spelling and then proceed to drown it in butter and garlic before eating it and rendering the whole argument moot.  Hope this helps.

Response:

Congratulation, I know that a such trevally, is really hard to bring back on a fly rod. You where fishing 12? I’m really, really happy for you.

I didn’t catch that monster, Phillipe. The angler is Kevin Thompson of Sage Rod Company. If I posted a photo of the only trevally I caught you’d die laughing. BTW, is that photo of the blond guy with the big trevally on your website a photo of you? — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

I didn’t catch that monster, Phillipe.

Next time, next time… BTW, is that photo of the blond guy with the big trevally on your website a photo of you?

Yep, it’s me, but don’t say to my hairdresser that I’m fishing when I need to let him make me a decent look. (I preffer the picture with the Spanish Mackerel). A bientot, Philippe Pacific Angling on Line http://fishing.ifrance.com — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ (Reply-to set to something bogus to avoid spam)

* Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping.  Smart is Beautiful

Response:

Question:

How much does the seven and one half four wt. weight? 3.15 Ounces (troy) Mr. G.

Response:

SPAM — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How much does the seven and one half four wt. weight? 3.15 Ounces (troy) Mr. G.

Response:

SPAM

LOL!  You go, "Hair-trigger Ken"!

Response:

SPAM — Ken Fortenberry

don’t start! If you want to see the posts I have, I can post those also. However; it was a legal FLY FISHING question, and the question would be no different had someone asked about a Phillipson, Heddon, St. Croix graphite, a Thomas & Thomas Bamboo, or what have you. Just because it comes from me about something "I’M" involved with, doesn’t make it spam.  I should also clarify that most 7.5′ Bamboo Fly rods weight BETWEEN 3.15 to 4 ounces.  Is that spam also? NOT! Mr. G. — http://www.gink.com/chat

Response:

SPAM LOL!  You go, "Hair-trigger Ken"!

______  Go hell.  Hit him in the head with a ball bat.  The man is crazy. Mr. G. — http://www.gink.com/chat

Response:

SPAM LOL!  You go, "Hair-trigger Ken"!

Goddamn right. It is ZERO fucking tolerance time for G SPAM. Especially in light of your Pollyanna appeal for peace and good will and my New Year Toast. Nobody asked anything about rod weight, this thread is nothing but a gratuitous troll for SPAM and I do not mind being the first to say so. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

How much does the seven and one half four wt. weight? 3.15 Ounces (troy) Mr. G.

Do you have a town North of Troy called Avoirdupois?  (smiling*) So fly rods in the 7.5′ Range made of Bamboo would seem to weight more in the English rather then the metric system which is STILL 98 – 100 Grams.  The rod I weighted compared to others may be more or less. These weights with all manufacturers are ‘more or less’ in this area because the weights can change because of the TYPE of cork handle a customer may want.  The same series or style of fly rods usually are offered with about three different styles of cork handles. Hope this helps everyone to understand bamboo fly rods ‘in general’. Again Ken.  This is NOT spam. We can talk about it on the Roff Chat Site tonight if you want. Mr. G. — http://www.gink.com/chat

Response:

Goddamn right. It is ZERO fucking tolerance time for G SPAM. Especially in light of your Pollyanna appeal for peace and good will and my New Year Toast. Nobody asked anything about rod weight, this thread is nothing but a gratuitous troll for SPAM and I do not mind being the first to say so.

OK, OK. Sheesh – don’t start swinging at your friends, too, big fella. /daytripper ("Pollyanna appeal"? Gonna have to look that one up ;^)

Response:

George Gehrke writes: If you want to see the posts I have, I can post those also.

George, I see no posts regarding the weight of a 7 1/2 ft bamboo fly rod, except your’s.  Do you mean to say you got a question via e-mail and you are answering it here?  If so, that is spam.  Ken’s right again, it appears. Louie

Response:

Am I missing some post’s here, I can’t find the question. Wonder what other post’s that I missed!!!. How can I know? I might be missing half or more that goes on here!! Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – SPAM — Ken Fortenberry don’t start! If you want to see the posts I have, I can post those also. However; it was a legal FLY FISHING question, and the question would be no different had someone asked about a Phillipson, Heddon, St. Croix graphite, a Thomas & Thomas Bamboo, or what have you. Just because it comes from me about something "I’M" involved with, doesn’t make it spam.  I should also clarify that most 7.5′ Bamboo Fly rods weight BETWEEN 3.15 to 4 ounces.  Is that spam also? NOT! Mr. G. — http://www.gink.com/chat

Response:

Mike are you saying thatthis could be a Y2k bug problem, George is getting post’s that no one else see’s?. I still can’t find a post that say’s How much does the seven and one half four wt. weight? Dave ( confused) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I cant find any posts either. I even reset and reloaded the NG just to be sure. Over a thousand posts ! Don’t want to do that too often. This could still be a mistake though. I never see any posts containing binaries, my ISP filters them automatically, and I have occasionally missed posts in the past apparently due to ISP hiccoughs. Oh well,  it was a fairly pleasant year 2000 while it lasted ! TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de (SNIP)

Response:

Sorry Mike to get you on edge, just wondering what good info I’m missin. There has been alot of strange post’s on here latly that seems to have parts that I’m not getting( Like redd tarp posting a question and a answer in the same post)and so forth. just wondering if that is the whole post or did somthing fly by me..And yes I did see the hinged indicator post (very good) and I have a lot to learn about flyfishing, I may not have enough knowledge to help most people but I try to read all that takes place here. The hinged indicator reminds me of some tacktics that I see used on the steelhead river I fish, but instead of on the surface the hinge point is a small wheight at the bottom that the fly is a small distance from. This allows the fly to drift down the current pointing forward slowly while the wheight bounces along the bottom. Do us all a favor and never change( not that you can) and a HAPPY NEW YEAR over on the other side of the pond! Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – No Dave, I was simply saying that I could not find the post either. It might not exist, or it might just be a copy from George’s e-mail, but I have no way of knowing.  Just trying to give him the benefit of the doubt is all. He does seem to be making a special, more or less successful, effort to avoid problems recently, and it would be a shame if we got into another flame war, justified or not.  I have had one weird experience already today ( see "CUPERTINO " ) which I am unable to explain, there might equally well be others. Whatever, I am a bit tired of just fighting, I have done too much of it, I am getting too old for it, and it bores me.  One big plus today was hearing about the "right angle indicator" technique, something like that compensates for a lot of crap in my opinion, and is in fact one of my main reasons for subscribing to this NG. Would be nice to hear more of such, and less of the other, irrespective of the past, or justifiable grounds etc etc. Before anybody jumps on that, I am perfectly well aware that I am just guilty as anyone else in this respect. TL MC "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de (SNIP)

Response:

I cant find any posts either. I even reset and reloaded the NG just to be sure. Over a thousand posts ! Don’t want to do that too often. This could still be a mistake though. I never see any posts containing binaries, my ISP filters them automatically, and I have occasionally missed posts in the past apparently due to ISP hiccoughs. Oh well,  it was a fairly pleasant year 2000 while it lasted ! TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

(SNIP)

Response:

No Dave, I was simply saying that I could not find the post either. It might not exist, or it might just be a copy from George’s e-mail, but I have no way of knowing.  Just trying to give him the benefit of the doubt is all. He does seem to be making a special, more or less successful, effort to avoid problems recently, and it would be a shame if we got into another flame war, justified or not.  I have had one weird experience already today ( see "CUPERTINO " ) which I am unable to explain, there might equally well be others. Whatever, I am a bit tired of just fighting, I have done too much of it, I am getting too old for it, and it bores me.  One big plus today was hearing about the "right angle indicator" technique, something like that compensates for a lot of crap in my opinion, and is in fact one of my main reasons for subscribing to this NG. Would be nice to hear more of such, and less of the other, irrespective of the past, or justifiable grounds etc etc. Before anybody jumps on that, I am perfectly well aware that I am just guilty as anyone else in this respect. TL MC "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

(SNIP)

Response:

Sorry Mike to get you on edge, just wondering what good info I’m missin.

snipped to save space: ______  Actually David, I should write an entire article on just Bamboo Fly Rod weights.  It might be rather interesting, if you’re interested? Mr. G. — http://www.gink.com/chat

Response:

You did not get me on edge Dave. Your question was legitimate I thought. I have been wondering a bit myself lately, as I have regularly missed posts, which actually should be impossible. I read the group several times a day. Several times I have had to reset Outlook Express, and download all posts again to see the ones I missed. I never see binaries anyway, but the ones I have been missing lately have been normal text posts. I have no idea why, server glitches or software glitches I suppose. I have heard a little on this from another NG as well. My other comments were general in nature, and not directed at you. Tight lines ! Mike Connor– "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

Sorry Mike to get you on edge, just wondering what good info I’m missin.

(SNIP)

Response:

What the Hell does this have to do with anything? If it is a reply to a post, it should be at the bottom of the post. What is it doing here? George, I thought you were going to be good this year. Vern – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How much does the seven and one half four wt. weight? 3.15 Ounces (troy) Mr. G.

Response:

You need not worry Vern. Mr. G. — http://www.gink.com/chat

Response:

Vern, Nearly very time GG posts something it’s a lie. So you expect him to have changed, I doubt it. I was optimistic for a while but then he started again.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What the Hell does this have to do with anything? If it is a reply to a post, it should be at the bottom of the post. What is it doing here? George, I thought you were going to be good this year. Vern How much does the seven and one half four wt. weight? 3.15 Ounces (troy) Mr. G.

Response:

Mike are you saying thatthis could be a Y2k bug problem, George is getting post’s that no one else see’s?

Don’t waste your time Dave.  This is just another piece of spam from ROFF’s own god of dementia.

Response:

Question:

I wish you gents had FISH there in North Carolina.  I mean, some BIG fish.  14 – 20 inch rainbows and/or browns.

Could send one up here and I will try it on some 23" cutts I know of  Or maybe some big rainbows and browns on a few other pieces of water I know. Maybe I should have just broken down and bought a bloody bastard for myself…….By the sounds of it I should have.   Nice report Walt.  I was going to post a congratulations to you on your new tool and to George on what appears to be a job well done, but it didn’t sound right.  I’ll drink a cold one to your health and happiness and pray that I don’t catch minnows tomorrow. Warren

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I wish you gents had FISH there in North Carolina.  I mean, some BIG fish.  14 – 20 inch rainbows and/or browns. Could send one up here and I will try it on some 23" cutts I know of  Or maybe some big rainbows and browns on a few other pieces of water I know. Maybe I should have just broken down and bought a bloody bastard for myself…….By the sounds of it I should have. Nice report Walt.  I was going to post a congratulations to you on your new tool and to George on what appears to be a job well done, but it didn’t sound right.  I’ll drink a cold one to your health and happiness and pray that I don’t catch minnows tomorrow. Warren

a small fortune and one doesn’t need to be making mistakes.  They don’t even come fitted, which is a mind blower.  But wrapping guides all night and fitting hardware on these Bamboo Beauties is a lot of work.  I don’t mind as long as I have people such as yourself interested in the future.  I should send you one just to try but I have no spare Bastards.  They’re all taken.  Can you use a 7.5′ 4 Wt Warren?  I’m working on one tonight to send to MAINE!  Do you hear that Maine?!  The Brown Truck cometh sooneth! — Mr. G.   ‘all’s fair with fur or feather’ http://www.gink.com http://www.rodbuilding.com http://www.xink.com 509-243-4100 or 5500

Question:

I think it’s about time that somewhere some fisheries managers bite the big one and introduce regulations that restrict all anglers in trout fisheries (or bass etc) to a minimum number of fish killed per year ( as Jon suggests) and a minimum number of fish landed per day.

I’m all for this.  I was on a streak last spring– caught one fish on every outing for three weeks.  But, usually I don’t catch anything. It’d be great to have a regulation that guarantees me a minimum number of fish landed per day! — Tight Threads,         Charley Renn         Corvallis, OR

Response:

Its Catch and Cook. I practice it regularly. What is the point if spending hundreds of dollars in tackle and not eating a fish that you catch? I am not saying only fly fishing. I eat reds and specks that I catch on an Abu Garcia 6500 as much as I do a 16 inch trout caught on a 18 Adams. It is a simple thing and would be common if it wern’t for the Bunny Huggers. Am I the only one that eats fish here? If you get a fish that is as good as a trout as table fair, you should make it table fair. i know I’ll get hell from everyone about this but I accept that. BryceC

– Brice, Wake up! Where is the next fish you cook comming from? This is not a bunny hug, a tree hug, a rock hug or any other "Environmental issue." Say you own a pond with 100 fish in it, if you want to fish the pond every day, you will soon realize that catch and release is the only way you can sustain your sport. Or, of course, you could open a hatchery . . . . / o          /                                    |   __ /        /         Douglas Easton             |                                /                                      |                                                     *

Response:

Well I will not judge you for your way of life, but don’t come up to Montana and try to catch and cook in any of the prime trout areas, because you will be arrested if I see it…. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Its Catch and Cook. I practice it regularly. What is the point if spending hundreds of dollars in tackle and not eating a fish that you catch? I am not saying only fly fishing. I eat reds and specks that I catch on an Abu Garcia 6500 as much as I do a 16 inch trout caught on a 18 Adams. It is a simple thing and would be common if it wern’t for the Bunny Huggers. Am I the only one that eats fish here? If you get a fish that is as good as a trout as table fair, you should make it table fair. i know I’ll get hell from everyone about this but I accept that. BryceC Ain’t nothing wrong with keeping.  Depends on why you fish.  Frankly, I like the total experience and an satisfied with the challenge, the "art" of flyfishing, the environment, etc.  I don’t need to harvest the fish to be satisfied and therefore I fish entirely catch and release. however, I certainly do not blame anyone for harvesting what can be used appropriately.

Response:

fish, then it is theoretically possible for a larger % of the population to be decimated by C&R methods than by C&K

It’s a nice theory but empirical evidence just doesn’t bear it out. In fact empirical evidence disproves it.  Go fish both the C&R and C&K section of the San Juan River for instance.  The two areas are adjacent. In a day of fishing the former you’ll typically catch about 30 fat healthy fish running 12-24 inches; in the latter you’ll catch a handful of scrawny 10-inch stockers.  Which is decimated? Even what I’ve said above is overly simplistic.

No actually, it’s too complicated.  The facts are clear, simple, and undeniable.   — -Wayne Trzyna

Response:

: Hopefully, we’re not : carrying fin tags or punch cards anytime soon. Why? Just curious… JonCook.

Since what was proposed was essentially an honor system, what’s the point of punch cards? I either follow the rules or I don’t. The paperwork is a potential bureaucratic nightmare. It just makes fishing more expensive for everyone. For the record, I have killed one fish on the Platte in 16 years of fishing it. The fin tags would be of no use to me unless someone could convince me that killing fish there improved the fishery. (Colorado has a great bag limit foroverpopulated pond brookies under 8" that more than satisfies my appetite for fresh trout and HELPS the population.) However the 40 caught per season is interesting. As tough as the Platte can be some days, therehave been numerous days where the seasonal limit would have been filled. I only get to fish there 1 to 10 or 12 days a year while I’m visiting family in the Springs. What about the guys who fish there much more than that? How would they feel? Or is the real issue here limiting the number of fishing days to improve the fisherman’s aesthetic experience as opposed to protecting a fishery? Could it be this is just a stalking horse for another round of yuppie bashing?  Not saying I know the answer, but it’s an interesting question. I fish the Platte during the week at off times of the year, often with snow on the ground, because I want to see fewer people. I guess with punch cards and fin tags I could go whenever I wanted and see fewer people, but I’ve come to love the Canyon more the times that I go than any other. Probably wouldn’t change a thing. BP

Response:

wayne trzyna  wrote in article I think it’s about time that somewhere some fisheries managers bite the big one and introduce regulations that restrict all anglers in trout fisheries (or bass etc) to a minimum number of fish killed per year ( as Jon suggests) and a minimum number of fish landed per day. Ideally it would require a punch card or tag system and the max catch per day (regardless if they are all released) would have to operate fairly much on an honour system – but I think most fishers would do so. This is unnecessary.  If a person is catching dozens of fish that fact implies there are plenty of fish to catch.  It seems silly to regulate "number of fish landed" in this scenario.

This may be a naive assumption.  (Before you react.  Note that I said ‘may’.)  I have no facts on this issue (and certainly would appreciate it if anyone could contribute some), but it stands to reason that C&R could have it’s own pitfalls.  If it is true that a certain percentage of returned fish die as a result of having been caught and handled, and it is true that there are many fishermen who are successful at catching many fish, then it is theoretically possible for a larger % of the population to be decimated by C&R methods than by C&K (where fishers keep all they catch, must stop fishing when the limit is reached,  and compliance to these regs is high….i.e. an ‘ideal’ C&K fishery). Even what I’ve said above is overly simplistic.  We all know that there are a variety of factors that uniquely effect each fishery, and to some degree, I think the jury is still out as to what works best where.  There is no magic bullet that is going to cure the underlying problem…overpopulation of fishers.  (I sure aint gonna stop fishing, are you?).  Unfortunately, we have found all too often that well meant resource management techniques, even though they look good on paper, fail to measure up to our expectations.  I suspect that this may be true of C&R, at least on some fisheries, but again I have no specific facts. Does anyone know of any scholarly investigations of the long term impacts of C&R fishing?

Response:

A friend of mine (bait fisher) had an excellent idea.  On the South Platte around Deckers there is a 2 fish over 16" slot limit.   as a result you won’t find a lot of fish over 16".  This is a wrong approach. switch to 2, or4 fish under 12", and let the big ones go. How’s that? </c

Response:

Sounds nice but what happens when all the bigs ones die of old age and here ain’t any little ones around to grow big because they’ve all been C & C’s (or whatever the latest inane acroynm or synthetic politically correct terminology is) Ralph H – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -A friend of mine (bait fisher) had an excellent idea.  On the South Platte around Deckers there is a 2 fish over 16" slot limit.   as a result you won’t find a lot of fish over 16".  This is a wrong approach. switch to 2, or4 fish under 12", and let the big ones go. How’s that? </c

Response:

Chaz, given the pressure on the SP, Ralph’s probably right. So, how about: Define some section of the SP, say Cheesman to Oxyoke (that right?), then, each angler can keep 4 fish per year, any size, and (this is the key) can only catch a total of 40 fish per year. With that, the SP would be a truely great fishery, and those 2-10 days you fished it per year would be much more memorable than the 50 you do now (you being anyone who fishes it that much now, not neccessarily Chaz). JonCook.

: : Sounds nice but what happens when all the bigs ones die of : old age and here ain’t any little ones around to grow big : because they’ve all been C & C’s (or whatever the latest inane : acroynm or synthetic politically correct terminology is) : Ralph H : A friend of mine (bait fisher) had an excellent idea.  On the South : Platte around Deckers there is a 2 fish over 16" slot limit.   as a : result you won’t find a lot of fish over 16".  This is a wrong approach. : switch to 2, or4 fish under 12", and let the big ones go. : : How’s that? : : </c

Response:

Its Catch and Cook. I practice it regularly. What is the point if spending hundreds of dollars in tackle and not eating a fish that you catch? I am not saying only fly fishing. I eat reds and specks that I catch on an Abu Garcia 6500 as much as I do a 16 inch trout caught on a 18 Adams. It is a simple thing and would be common if it wern’t for the Bunny Huggers. Am I the only one that eats fish here? If you get a fish that is as good as a trout as table fair, you should make it table fair. i know I’ll get hell from everyone about this but I accept that. BryceC

Ain’t nothing wrong with keeping.  Depends on why you fish.  Frankly, I like the total experience and an satisfied with the challenge, the "art" of flyfishing, the environment, etc.  I don’t need to harvest the fish to be satisfied and therefore I fish entirely catch and release. however, I certainly do not blame anyone for harvesting what can be used appropriately.

Response:

Sounds nice but what happens when all the bigs ones die of old age and here ain’t any little ones around to grow big because they’ve all been C & C’s (or whatever the latest inane acroynm or synthetic politically correct terminology is)

Yes, that is the fly in the ointment.  You could expect more stocks because larger fish produce more eggs, etc. – but remember only a few small ones would be kept. But you’re right.  The number of small fish would decline, especially on the SP – I doubt there is a great deal of natural reproduction and they won’t stock it, so……. </c – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ralph H

Response:

Chaz, given the pressure on the SP, Ralph’s probably right. So, how about: Define some section of the SP, say Cheesman to Oxyoke (that right?), then, each angler can keep 4 fish per year, any size, and (this is the key) can only catch a total of 40 fish per year.

For anglers who keep some/most/all of thier legal catch, a 40 fish/year limit would be totally unenforceable.  Unless, of course, you gave them "tear-away tags"  as part of their liscense and made them tag the fins of thier fish.   Hey, what a great way to limit exclusive Catch and Kill fishing.  Make killing a bunch of fish more trouble than it’s worth! Jason B

Response:

Chaz, given the pressure on the SP, Ralph’s probably right. So, how about: Define some section of the SP, say Cheesman to Oxyoke (that right?), then, each angler can keep 4 fish per year, any size, and (this is the key) can only catch a total of 40 fish per year. With that, the SP would be a truely great fishery, and those 2-10 days you fished it per year would be much more memorable than the 50 you do now (you being anyone who fishes it that much now, not neccessarily Chaz). JonCook.

I think it’s about time that somewhere some fisheries managers bite the big one and introduce regulations that restrict all anglers in trout fisheries (or bass etc) to a minimum number of fish killed per year ( as Jon suggests) and a minimum number of fish landed per day. Ideally it would require a punch card or tag system and the max catch per day (regardless if they are all released) would have to operate fairly much on an honour system – but I think most fishers would do so. I don’t know much about the South Platte other than I recognize the name but it seems to me if you have a reg that allows killing only fish of 16" or over and fish that size are rare then something isn’t working (providing the river is able to grow good numbers of fish to that size). you’ve got to wonder if a limit of 4 smaller fish will help either if the kill so seriously affects the larger fish. I think that most of us want our waters managed so there is a more or less normal distribution of all age classes. Wiping out one class to protect the other doesn’t make sense and will likely lead to an imbalance in the long run! Ralph H – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : : Sounds nice but what happens when all the bigs ones die of : old age and here ain’t any little ones around to grow big : A friend of mine (bait fisher) had an excellent idea.  On the South : Platte around Deckers there is a 2 fish over 16" slot limit.   as a : result you won’t find a lot of fish over 16".  This is a wrong approach. : switch to 2, or4 fish under 12", and let the big ones go. : : How’s that? : : </c

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Sounds nice but what happens when all the bigs ones die of old age and here ain’t any little ones around to grow big because they’ve all been C & C’s (or whatever the latest inane acroynm or synthetic politically correct terminology is) Ralph H

I let the hatcheries replenish the stock. I also don’t get very many chances to trout fish so I make the best of the ones that I catch. BryceC

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        <<Killing a fish and eating it is not a dishonorable thing to do. The angler should use a little discretion, though. Where they are scarce, it’s foolish to kill them. On the other hand, if the trout are plentiful I may keep one or two per trip.         You are right, Bryce, when you admit that you are likely to catch some flak over this issue. But, where legal, it is your RIGHT to do that if you wish. People can holler all they want, but it’s their problem not yours. Just use good judgment, and don’t overcook those beauties. Enjoy! (Try poaching them in wine and garlic.) I fish the Tellico so there are plenty of fish around there. The Tellico Hatchery Stocks weekly. I also fish the West Prong Pigeon, the Little and the Elk. All have lots of fish. If I were fishing Abrahms creek or Rabbit Creek that would be a different story. I’m glad someone agrees with me. BryceC

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Jason, the reason game laws work is because most people observe them voluntarily. There is simply not enough DFG (or DNR, depending on where you’re from) money to enforce these laws.   Laws that are "more trouble than they are worth"  are the ones least likely to be honored by the requisite number of fishermen.                                                            -dnc- Jason Beary wrote – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [snip]  Unless, of course, you gave them "tear-away tags"  as part of their liscense and made them tag the fins of thier fish.   Hey, what a great way to limit exclusive Catch and Kill fishing.  Make killing a bunch of fish more trouble than it’s worth! Jason B

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So if I get skunked, your going to fine me?  (No need to reply.  I know what you meant.  Just couldn’t resist) —                                                            -dnc- I think it’s about time that somewhere some fisheries managers bite the big one and introduce regulations that restrict all anglers in trout fisheries (or bass etc) to a …[snip]…. a minimum number of fish

landed per day.

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I think it’s about time that somewhere some fisheries managers bite the big one and introduce regulations that restrict all anglers in trout fisheries (or bass etc) to a minimum number of fish killed per year ( as Jon suggests) and a minimum number of fish landed per day. Ideally it would require a punch card or tag system and the max catch per day (regardless if they are all released) would have to operate fairly much on an honour system – but I think most fishers would do so.

This is unnecessary.  If a person is catching dozens of fish that fact implies there are plenty of fish to catch.  It seems silly to regulate "number of fish landed" in this scenario. I don’t know much about the South Platte other than I recognize the name but it seems to me if you have a reg that allows killing only fish of 16" or over and fish that size are rare then something isn’t working (providing the river is able to grow good numbers of fish to that size).

There are a bunch of dubious assumptions underlying this thread.  The fact that one is not catching bigger fish does not mean that there are no big fish to be caught.  We all understand this more than we’d care to admit. But I agree that slot limits that allow killing only big fish are counterproductive. — -Wayne Trzyna

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-Wayne Trzyna

<snip I don’t know much about the South Platte other than I recognize the name but it seems to me if you have a reg that allows killing only fish of 16" or over and fish that size are rare then something isn’t working (providing the river is able to grow good numbers of fish to that size). There are a bunch of dubious assumptions underlying this thread.  The fact that one is not catching bigger fish does not mean that there are no big fish to be caught.  We all understand this more than we’d care to admit.

If the 16" fish is rare then you will fish somewhere else right? If the 16" fish is rare, you will change the regs to protect them right? Seems there are an awful lot of people on this group going out of their way to poor mouth the Platte. I suspect Wayne knows that Cheeseman Canyon(Pure C&R) has plenty of 16"+ fish and has for years. Maybe its not like the eighties when there were many days when almost all the fish I caught were above 16", but… I must admit however that I have never caught as many larger fish below the canyon (kill one over 16" stretch), even in the better days. Numbers of total fish caught were somewhat similar though. Only 3 real differences between the areas: Better Habitat (Canyon), C&R vs. C&R&K(1 over 16"), Much easier access (below the canyon). Differences are probably attributable to a complex blend of  all three. The solution for the whole fishery should be derived deliberately. Hopefully, we’re not carrying fin tags or punch cards anytime soon. BP

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Its Catch and Cook. I practice it regularly. What is the point if spending hundreds of dollars in tackle and not eating a fish that you catch? I am not saying only fly fishing. I eat reds and specks that I catch on an Abu Garcia 6500 as much as I do a 16 inch trout caught on a 18 Adams. It is a simple thing and would be common if it wern’t for the Bunny Huggers. Am I the only one that eats fish here? If you get a fish that is as good as a trout as table fair, you should make it table fair. i know I’ll get hell from everyone about this but I accept that. BryceC

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Its Catch and Cook. I practice it regularly. What is the point if spending hundreds of dollars in tackle and not eating a fish that you catch? I am not saying only fly fishing.

While that’s nice (and perhaps you’d like to trade some recipes): Somewhere some nincompoop(s) cooked this whole issue into a one or the other kind of argument. What was supposed to an idea of applying common sense for the good of fishing for the future has been perverted into a sort of quasi religion and had a concommittent religious backlash. That there are those who say you should never kill a fish and to kill a fish bespeakes a blatant disregard for the sport and the environment versus those who say there should always be a kill and a meal regardless or close a fishery down ( like you having to justify the cost of your sport with a meal on the table as if being on the water and hooking a fish or two can’t be enough) just proves to me there are people who don’t really want to think about an issue and then ironically decide they have all the answers. One eminent poster here once eluded to Ecclesiates and said there is a time to kill (as in your fishery has an undeniable surplus available) and a time to release (such as is the case for virtually all wild steelhead) where you can’t really be certain of a sufficient number of fish being available for the future of the stocks to be assured. It may be a matter of convention (like on the Dean) where the body of anglers fishing there agree releasing is the best thing to do or boil down to personal preference. But why not accept it as a fact sometimes it is best to let it live. For those that don’t like those sorts of fisheries they can go someplace else. It’s a big free wide world. Ralph H replace "spamsucks" with direct for email reply.

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Its Catch and Cook. I practice it regularly. What is the point if spending hundreds of dollars in tackle and not eating a fish that you catch? I am not saying only fly fishing.  Am I the only one that eats fish here? BryceC

Bryce; The point is that many (most) FFermen prefer the opportunity to catch lots of quality fish all year.  If I and all other FFermen kept a good % of the trout we caught, there would really be very little reason to continue the sport.  Here in PA, wild trout would not exist in the numbers that they do were it not for voluntary C&R.  We have way more fishermen than fish to support the sport.  If people keep the fish they catch, it will not ever be able to be caught by other fishermen or yourself, guaranteed.  Here in the East, we would very quickly run out of the good populations of wild fish that already struggle to survive in the shadow of Man.  All Catch and Cook would do is deplete the resource to the point of destruction.  (But, then again, that IS the american way, isn’t it? Fuck it all to hell and let someone else pay for the baby.) Jason Beary

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        Killing a fish and eating it is not a dishonorable thing to do. The angler should use a little discretion, though. Where they are scarce, it’s foolish to kill them. On the other hand, if the trout are plentiful I may keep one or two per trip.         You are right, Bryce, when you admit that you are likely to catch some flak over this issue. But, where legal, it is your RIGHT to do that if you wish. People can holler all they want, but it’s their problem not yours. Just use good judgment, and don’t overcook those beauties. Enjoy! (Try poaching them in wine and garlic.)

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Jason makes a good point, but it is true that there is nothing wrong with keeping fish where it is legal to do so.  If you care about the resource (which you should if you want to continue to C&C) then I strongly recommend supporting a mixed management program in your area that protects some waters with C&R, some with limited C&K.  If eating trout is your real pleasure, try searching out the put-n-take waters in your area (if they exist).  Living in San Diego, as I do, means travelling long distances for abundant trout streams, but the winter fishing in local lakes for put-n-take trout is pretty good.  And believe it or not, the private hatchery that provides the fish feeds them on something that makes ‘em taste really good.  Maybe you can find something like this in your area.   —                                                            -dnc- – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Its Catch and Cook. I practice it regularly. What is the point if spending hundreds of dollars in tackle and not eating a fish that you catch? I am not saying only fly fishing.  Am I the only one that eats fish here? BryceC Bryce; The point is that many (most) FFermen prefer the opportunity to catch lots of quality fish all year.  If I and all other FFermen kept a good % of the trout we caught, there would really be very little reason to continue the sport.  

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Question:

I’m an italian fly fisherman,i will be in Vancouver for the next August i need some address of fly fishing shops, thanks Massimiliano

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I’m an italian fly fisherman,i will be in Vancouver for the next August i need some address of fly fishing shops, thanks Massimiliano i do not know which vancouver you are asking about (B.C. or WA), both have great fishing nearby.  if you meant vancouver, wa you might try The Greased Line Fly Shop at 360-573-9383.  i have been in a couple times and they are knowledgeable in the ways of steelhead. Enjoy the west coast while you’re out here.  If you meant BC, forget this message

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I’m an italian fly fisherman,i will be in Vancouver for the next August i need some address of fly fishing shops, thanks Massimiliano

If Vancouver BC: Babcock’s 931-5044 Michael & Young’s 588-2833 Outdoors unlimited 463-0707 Ruddick’s 434-2420(Burnaby) or 681-3747 (Granville Island – downtown) Terminal Tackle 536-4665 B.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m an italian fly fisherman,i will be in Vancouver for the next August i need some address of fly fishing shops, thanks Massimiliano If Vancouver BC: Babcock’s 931-5044 Michael & Young’s 588-2833 Outdoors unlimited 463-0707 Ruddick’s 434-2420(Burnaby) or 681-3747 (Granville Island – downtown) Terminal Tackle 536-4665 B.

Ruddicks in Burnaby will be moving soon.  They have a sale on stuff ’til the end of the month. — The views expressed are my own and does not represent those of my employer.

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  Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly   Ruddicks in Burnaby will be moving soon.  They have a sale on stuff ’til   the end of the month.

How does (did) the Burnaby branch compare to the Granville Island store in terms of selection etc.  I’ve never been to that branch. thanks,         -tony — Tony Gades. Seattle, WA.  USA http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades/Fishing/fish_page.html email: replace the "this_address_is_wrong" with "tgades"

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SNIP How does (did) the Burnaby branch compare to the Granville Island store in terms of selection etc.  I’ve never been to that branch. thanks,         -tony — Tony Gades. Seattle, WA.  USA http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades/Fishing/fish_page.html email: replace the "this_address_is_wrong" with "tgades"

Burnaby store is older, larger, more stuff, more selection, less swanky.  They also offer fly tying classes there.                         -cheers — The views expressed are my own and does not represent those of my employer.

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:   Ruddicks in Burnaby will be moving soon.  They have a sale on stuff ’til :   the end of the month. : How does (did) the Burnaby branch compare to the Granville Island : store in terms of selection etc.  I’ve never been to that branch. The store out in Burnaby was "the big one", while the one on Granville Island was a small one meant to snag a few bucks from the large number of folks who go down to the island daily. Not certain why they’re closing out that location. I like Michael & Young; I also visit a little place called "Hanson’s" (perhaps "Hansen’s") in the high-rent district in downtown Van (it’s on Hornby, I believe, only a couple of blocks from my employer’s corporate offices in the Waterfron Centre). Not big, few tying supplies, but you can buy a rod and a few flies, or book a guide who can speak Japanese or Cantonese or German. — 3798 Woodland Drive     voice: (250) 368-9315 Trail, BC               data:  (250) 368-9341

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For Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada I would recommend my favorite, Michael & Young Flyshop in Surrey, a suburb of Vancouver.(604-588-2833) The shop is a short walk (1/2 mile) from the Surrey skytrain station by Surrey Centre Mall (30 min. skytrain ride from downtown).  They supply equipment and excellent advice to flyfishermen looking for action locally, at  not too distant hotspots like Kamloops, Merritt, or Vancouver Island (2-3 hrs drive) or even in exotic places like Mexico.  Ruddicks Fly Shop in Burnaby (another suburb) may be closer and is supposed to provide similar service, though I haven’t been there. (604-434-2420) Hope you enjoy your trip. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m an italian fly fisherman,i will be in Vancouver for the next August i need some address of fly fishing shops,

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I’m an italian fly fisherman,i will be in Vancouver for the next August i need some address of fly fishing shops, thanks Massimiliano

For Vancouver BC try Hanson’s Fishing Outfitters, 102-580 Hornby Street, in downtown Vancouver. Ph 604 684 8988.  They also have a web site but I don’t know the URL. Peter Sealy

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Question:

Anyone ever try the Gun Powder River in Maryland ?  Curious to know what it is like and how crowded it gets.  Any info would help. thanks

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Ask Phil Gay from Trout and About he guides it and is a very nice guy that is always happy to help folks out.Good luck.  703/525/7127 Regards, James Uncle Jammer’s Guide Service Vermont Fly Fishing, Hunting, River and Woodland Outings

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Question:

I need info on getting info (flyfishing for trout) in northern Washington, Idaho and Montana states. Thanx Bish

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I need info on getting info (flyfishing for trout) in northern Washington, Idaho and Montana states.

Hi Bish Your request is fairly broad.  In Washington I recommend you contact the Blue Dun Fly Shop in Wenatchee (509-664-2416) and in Idaho check with the Cast a Way Fly Shop in Coeur d’Alene (208-765-3313). In Montana the Yellowstone River is fishing good, most of the waters in the Park are also fishing well.  The Clarks Fork is high but starting to turn on.  The Madison is good AM & PM and slow through the day.  The Gallatin is Fishing good through the day and into the evening (caddis).   Hoppers, caddis, woolly buggers, and bead heads are the flies of choice.  Also Wulffs, Trudes, etc. are alway a good choice. Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

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The following are acouple of places that may be able to answer questions about fly fishing in Montana http://www.cyberport.net/ecs/troutski/troutski.html http://www.cyberport.net/ecs/wwater/gnwwater.html — Electronic Cottage Services http://www.cyberport.net/ecs/lakeco/business/ecs/ecshome.html PO Box 81 Polson, MT 59860 406-887-2899

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The following are acouple of places that may be able to answer questions about fly fishing in Montana

OR NOT!!!

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Path: news.micron.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-11.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.ed u!swrinde!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!nn tp04.primenet.com!news.shkoo.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.fibr.net!news.inter netMCI.com!news-admin Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly Organization: InternetMCI Lines: 7 NNTP-Posting-Host: dialup535.bloomington.mci.net The following are acouple of places that may be able to answer questions about fly fishing in Montana OR NOT!!!

Try calling the Idaho Outfitters and Guides Association or visit the Idaho home page.

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