Question:

The panga fishing is much more fun for flyfishing.  Cruisers are for offshore marlin and such.  We went with Beto Nunez on Pangas a couple months ago and had a grand time with Sierra Mackeral.  I used my 10wt becuase it could cast farther. This time of year the roosterfish should be available.  You’ll want the 10wt and lots of backing for these guys. They’re good folks who speak English and catch fish. Chas – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Group! This message is also crossposted to rec.outdoors.fishing, and rec.outdoors.fishing.fly I’m headed to Los Cabos for a few days in early June with my brothers. Of the three attending, none are really fishermen. What would be a good experience for them- catching fish but not necessarily spending all day ion a boat offshore? Now for me: Can anyone define the experiences of  panga vs. cruiser? How’s the inshore fishing? Should I take along a 10 wt? Would it do me any good? I like to catch fish, they don’t necessarily have to monsters, in fact I prefer a light tackle for spirited light fish rather than cranking a coffee can with a behemoth  attached 10 miles out- although I enjoy that as well. That said, I know marlin and billfish are the real sportsmen’s game in Cabo – what else completes the Cabo fishing experience? We really only have two full days, so any suggestions are appreciated. Thanks Cow

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Hi Group! This message is also crossposted to rec.outdoors.fishing, and rec.outdoors.fishing.fly I’m headed to Los Cabos for a few days in early June with my brothers. Of the three attending, none are really fishermen. What would be a good experience for them- catching fish but not necessarily spending all day ion a boat offshore? Now for me: Can anyone define the experiences of  panga vs. cruiser? How’s the inshore fishing? Should I take along a 10 wt? Would it do me any good? I like to catch fish, they don’t necessarily have to monsters, in fact I prefer a light tackle for spirited light fish rather than cranking a coffee can with a behemoth  attached 10 miles out- although I enjoy that as well. That said, I know marlin and billfish are the real sportsmen’s game in Cabo – what else completes the Cabo fishing experience? We really only have two full days, so any suggestions are appreciated. Thanks Cow

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I’ve been to East Cape, 3 times and have only used the super pangos because they have a canvas top and room for 2 fishermen. You’ll fry in the heat without a top. A lot depends on your guide, they all seem to want to fish for marlin, it’s the macho thing plus they like to sell the meat. I release mine. By the way, I haven’t fly fished there. I prefer to fish for dorado (dolphin) and I think it would be a blast to fish for them with a fly rod, but I haven’t been back since I took up fly fishing. I’ve caught rooster fish using bait and fishing deep. In the morning you can see them working bait fish in the surf, you might be able to do a little shore fishing for them. I tried with rubber lures and the needle fish tore them up on every cast. I don’t know how a fly would hold up. Your friends could stay on shore and get drunk, play in the pool, if your hotel has one, and snorkel. East Cape is more remote than Cabo with only fish camps and no shopping. Ron

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Group! This message is also crossposted to rec.outdoors.fishing, and rec.outdoors.fishing.fly I’m headed to Los Cabos for a few days in early June with my brothers. Of the three attending, none are really fishermen. What would be a good experience for them- catching fish but not necessarily spending all day ion a boat offshore? Now for me: Can anyone define the experiences of  panga vs. cruiser? How’s the inshore fishing? Should I take along a 10 wt? Would it do me any good? I like to catch fish, they don’t necessarily have to monsters, in fact I prefer a light tackle for spirited light fish rather than cranking a coffee can with a behemoth  attached 10 miles out- although I enjoy that as well. That said, I know marlin and billfish are the real sportsmen’s game in Cabo – what else completes the Cabo fishing experience? We really only have two full days, so any suggestions are appreciated. Thanks Cow

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Golf the Nicklaus coures. Go to the Giggling Marlin. Get a taco from one of the little places. Go to The Office and sit outside for happy hour. Huge fried shrimp and a bucket of cold ones to go with amazing scenery on many levels.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Group! This message is also crossposted to rec.outdoors.fishing, and rec.outdoors.fishing.fly I’m headed to Los Cabos for a few days in early June with my brothers. Of the three attending, none are really fishermen. What would be a good experience for them- catching fish but not necessarily spending all day ion a boat offshore? Now for me: Can anyone define the experiences of  panga vs. cruiser? How’s the inshore fishing? Should I take along a 10 wt? Would it do me any good? I like to catch fish, they don’t necessarily have to monsters, in fact I prefer a light tackle for spirited light fish rather than cranking a coffee can with a behemoth  attached 10 miles out- although I enjoy that as well. That said, I know marlin and billfish are the real sportsmen’s game in Cabo – what else completes the Cabo fishing experience? We really only have two full days, so any suggestions are appreciated. Thanks Cow

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Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For the rest of us, our heaven resides a little higher. Milwaukee ? — Ken Fortenberry OK, way f*****g higher!  I *was* trying to be nice.  If you like it, you ain’t there. Peter

OOPS, left off the smiley face. just kidding. Peter

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And those discriminating beer drinkers were using it to wash down their SPAM sandwiches no doubt.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anybody notice the little slice of heaven inserted into the Vikings/Rams game ? There they were, at THE source, row after row of Budweiser longnecks making their way toward the homes of discriminating beer drinkers the world over. Be still my beating heart. — Ken Fortenberry

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OK, way f*****g higher!  I *was* trying to be nice.  If you like it, you ain’t there. Ah you must of been thinking about Coors Light then

No, no no no no! The Sweet Green Death from Golden is NOT heavenly! It’d better not be! If Coors is divine, then I’m becoming a satanist! Opt out == cop-out. What’s so hard to understand?

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No, no no no no! The Sweet Green Death from Golden is NOT heavenly! It’d better not be! If Coors is divine, then I’m becoming a satanist!

But mixed with a little V8 juice, they make great red beers and that is about all it is good for. bc. — ROFF is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea — massive, difficult to redirect, awe-inspiring, entertaining, and a source of mind-boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it."

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But mixed with a little V8 juice, they make great red beers and that is about all it is good for.

When red beer sounds appealing in the am it generally means you went over the limit the previous night, and you’d better check your shorts for spots too<g. — Charlie…

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says… <Snipped Here’s where I get lost. Unfortunately I have yet to develop the proper appreciation for beer. I’ve been gamely tasting when offered and I have done this from many parts of the world. I have tasted stuff that folks claim is "WONDERFUL" and others that people have claimed "Tastes like Horse Piss" (Although the mind boggles at how they can make that comparison…). I don’t get it. I mean, I like to think I do have taste buds. A nice juicy medium rare Ruth Chris Sirloin with Crispy Onions sets the saliva a flowin and anticipation running. Or, how about a nice tall cool glass of lemonade on a hot day? I can’t understand the flavor or beer…. I’ve drunk all manner of concoction and I can say that some I like and some I hate, but beer? They all taste roughly the same… (With the exception of Bitters and Guiness {More a chowder than a beer}) What am I missing? I read all about posts of guys who’ll come back from a long hot trip out on the waters and then heartily slake their thirst on their favorite brews. Me? I’d be quite happy with a Coke or a Sprite… Heck I’d take water over beer. Aside from the temperature of the beer the flavors are… Well lets just say all I taste is the high level of Carbonation and I do sense the alchohol. I do have a VERY sensitive taste for alchohol. I can taste it in baking and cooking. Specially stuff with wine as a base. In some cases I can get a buzz eating that stuff. It may be something specific to my physiology but I never could enjoy the drinking as much as others. Highballs and cocktails I can taste due to the other flavors involved. Wines are the same way. Hard Liquor? More the quality of the beverage. A scotch seems to turn to smoke that just flows smoothly down leaving a burning trail and a sudden onslaught of dizziness. A whisky has a "smoky" flavor and some oak barrel stuff definitely has a flavor all it’s own (along with the deluge of alchohol!) So what should I bee looking for in beer other than the burp chaser? — Michael Era

Question:

Hi folks – PPRUNE also have some pics taken by Tech Crew of some BIG buildups http://www.pprune.com/ and choose "GALLERY" Martin . You may care to contact me with your email ad for a few pics I’ve taken at FL390 in Asia re: thunderstorms. Mike    http://www.newsfeeds.com       The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!

Ben Matthes. Adelaide, Australia.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Last night, I watch a short Australian show. It started off with the characters on board a B747. It was flying in a storm, amidst rain, lightning, the whole bit. Now, given that these A/C can cruise at up to Fl 400 or more, do storms actually occur that high up? I’ve left MEL on some pretty shitty days, and other cities as well, where there’s been 100% cloud cover, lots of rain etc. Yet, when at cruise, the clouds seemed to be a long way below us. Probably just another television show where the producers, as usual, have their heads up their arses, when it comes to authentic plots and storylines. .. He’s old for his age. MJT Take a "p" out of gipps for an email reply Gippsland, Victoria, Australia

The region of weather surrounding the earth is in the troposphere, the layer in which we live,and it extends up to the tropopause.  It is characterised by a temp lapse rate, ie, it gets colder as we ascend. After the tropopause the next layer, the stratosphere is considered to be isothermal. As has been stated , the tropopause ranges up around 18km in the low latitudes to around 8 km at the poles. It is not continueous and has significant discontinuities in the region of about 25 -30 degrees north and south latitude  and this is where the jet streams form. Back to the cloud then, convective types, the big cauliflower ones, can go up around 50000 ft in the equitorial regions associated with the wet season. This is the Intertropic Convergence Zone, the region where the northern and southern hemisphere airs meet and mix. This zone migrates north and south with the passage of the sun. To fly north this zone must always be penetrated and that is what we experience on a flight to south east asia from Aust. The zone is wide over the land masses of asia , png and an additional zone , the south pacific convergent zone is also generated and identified from PNG through the Solomon Isls area. The zone is quite narrow around Canton Island. (sometimes!!!) Although generally speaking flight above the tropopause brings smooth, clear sky, flying conditions it isn’t the most economic place to fly and on most occasions the flight is almost finished before the aeroplane is at the weight to climb to that level. In recent times the space shuttle has identified ‘clouds’ at the 40-50 mile high region, named ‘noctilucent cloud’ by NASA. These were first reported by astronauts in the pre moon and moon shots. Thought to be water vapour that has escaped the earths atmosphere via the breaks in the tropopause at the sub tropical high pressure belt region. ( thats the belt of high px that girdles the earth and lies over aust in the winter.) cowboy Before you buy.

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Question for the Knucks    In big T/h and mission critical   do you adopt a "penetration speed" light the fires and Punch on through  or whats the current teaching.?

I think it’s something along the lines of  "Thunderstorm? Was that what that bump was?"

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<snipped me own stuff So Frank the implication here is that your ATC radar can paint weather and aid aircraft. I was under the impression it was specifically designed not to paint wx so that it did not paint out aircraft returns. Does the new set up give you this facility now or do you have access to some remote wx radar info from ??’wherever??’. cowboy Before you buy.

Hiya Cowboy My understanding is that – at Adelaide at least – there is a separate CRT (or whatever they are) on which the weather radar is displayed onto. It is reasnably smaller than the main screen used for ATC, and sits above the operator being easliy visible at all times. It also displays atmospheric electrical activity issuing a warning tone once certain paramters are passed (EG frequency of activity in a certain range) – or so I believe – I have just gleaned this info from snooping the airbands & friends who have visited the ATC Centre – not from any 1st hand knowledge ) (maybe time for another visit – but then I’d HAVE TO GO TO MELBOURNE TO DO THAT !!!!!!  :-|  ) TTFN Ben Ben Matthes. Adelaide, Australia.

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So Frank the implication here is that your ATC radar can paint weather and aid aircraft. I was under the impression it was specifically designed not to paint wx so that it did not paint out aircraft returns. Does the new set up give you this facility now or do you have access to some remote wx radar info from ??’wherever??’. cowboy

From a tech perspective… Current generation Australian ATC radar sensors have a weather channel and processor as well as the aircraft channel.  I can tell you the difference and how its done if your interested.  At the moment we aren’t sending wx info to the display system for various reasons, although that may be going to change.  The TAAATS displays are capable of displaying wx vectors but only at 3 or 4 intensities and at the moment I don’t believe the (wx intensity) levels are set to be able to differentiate storms.  The wx data is only available out to fifty NM from the sensor too.  The tech display at the sensor is capable of displaying (amongst other things, depending on how it is set up) fairly accurate wx pictures, however the data rates that would be required to present this at the centres make it impractical (read too expensive). Most centres (Presumably Perth is one of these Frank?) have RAPIC (Met wx radar) displays which are quite capable of displaying and differentiating storm cells- they actually display rainfall intensity. RAPIC sensors are at all capitals AFAIK plus various other places.  Here at Cooly the closest is Brisbane, which puts us right at the edge of range, and I’ve been told it’s not as useful as it could be.  You’ll have seen a RAPIC type display on some of the TV weather reports- they call it their ‘colour wx radar’ or some such. Sorry to jump in Frank… JM — If one synchronised swimmer drowns, do the rest have to drown too? Take out the zigzag or you’ll miss us…

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Frank & others Indeed your right about ATC accomodating traffic diversions Frank. I was listening to Adelaide App/Dep and Centre one Sunday night while a row of TS went through ADL (listening on my scanner that is – tucked up in bed where VFR Pilot’s should be on such a night:-)   ) A Bae146 departed ADL for MEL and very soon after takeoff reported that his WX radar had failed. With  the assistance of ATC ground based WX radar and reports from other a/c,   ATC managed to steer this 146 left and right and all over the place clear of buildups until he was about 100DME east. Always interesting listening when times are busy and WX is bad TTFN

So Frank the implication here is that your ATC radar can paint weather and aid aircraft. I was under the impression it was specifically designed not to paint wx so that it did not paint out aircraft returns. Does the new set up give you this facility now or do you have access to some remote wx radar info from ??’wherever??’. cowboy Before you buy.

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Question for the Knucks    In big T/h and mission critical   do you adopt a "penetration speed" light the fires and Punch on through  or whats the current teaching.?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sorry to disagree with you on this one cowboy. Reseachers in Meteorology have three favorite sites for thunderstorm research, Belgium Congo, Amazon Basin and Darwin. I visited a joint US/Australian research program in Darwin in the early 90’s and I cannot remember the exact numbers but in January they were getting daily CB tops over FL450. and occasionally in the 60’s. The reason for Darwin selection is the consistent formation (Hector was mentioned in another post) and the good vertical buildups. These programs are still conducted almost on a annual basis from around December to March and comprise widely displaced  radar, lightning detection and sonde flights along with fixed wing aircraft when they can afford them. The aircraft costs and risks is one of the reasons for the development of the Aerosonde (see http://www.aerosonde.com/aerora_home.htm  ) and UAV type aircraft will be used more and more in future for weather related research. No way you will get me in a C130 or Orion crunching through thunderstorms. (Crunching is the operative word) <snip IWe don’t have as much moisture in the atmosphere in Aust to generated the conditions that you describe. It could have been a mature ’supercell’ thunderstorm but even though it looked black dark and horrible it was not in the immediate path of the departing traffic. Brian G

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Frank Paterson said..  FP Didn’t mean to scaremonger, Martin. Yes, I know. It’s just that I hate lightning. Silly paranoia I know..  FP It gets trickier lower down, eg in climb or descent and in the  FP vicinity of the airport.  Traffic is denser.   ATC will still One of the most tense moments of my travelling life was a final into JFK during winter, 1996. Most of the descent was in cloud/fog, and it was rough all the way. When we touched down, and began slowing, you could almost hear the tension slide away, and not a few pax actually applauded. Like you said, it must be hell for those who do have a genuine fear of flying. .. Be nice to your kids. They’ll choose your nursing home. MJT Take a "p" out of gipps for an email reply Gippsland, Victoria, Australia

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I have heard an account from a U2 pilot diverting around a storm at 100,000 feet!  I have seen many well above F410 in Australia. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Last night, I watch a short Australian show. It started off with the characters on board a B747. It was flying in a storm, amidst rain, lightning, the whole bit. Now, given that these A/C can cruise at up to Fl 400 or more, do storms actually occur that high up? I’ve left MEL on some pretty shitty days, and other cities as well, where there’s been 100% cloud cover, lots of rain etc. Yet, when at cruise, the clouds seemed to be a long way below us. Probably just another television show where the producers, as usual, have their heads up their arses, when it comes to authentic plots and storylines. .. He’s old for his age. MJT Take a "p" out of gipps for an email reply Gippsland, Victoria, Australia

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I have heard an account from a U2 pilot diverting around a storm at 100,000 feet!  I have seen many well above F410 in Australia.

When I was working in Darwin NASA had their E2 (or U2 if you wish) and a Herc (or perhaps Orion – memory fade) doing data gathering on tropical storms. The E2 used to fly on top of the CBs and the poor old turboprop had to go into the guts of it. The E2 advised one afternoon that they were 5000 ft above the highest anvil they had ever seen and they were at FL690. On another note, a Flight Service Officer asked the E2 for his actual level for traffic purposes and he stated if you get anything above FL600 let me know and I’ll give the traffic my level. Alan

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Frank Paterson said..  FP So yes, Martin, the storms can and do get that high, and they’re  FP significant. Hmmm. How comforting. I watched some people I know depart Fort Lauderdale airport during a thunderstorm. For those who’ve never experienced tropical thunderstorms, it was one of the scariest moments of our lives. I could have sworn that the Dash 8 (I think it was) was hit as it rotated. It wasn’t pleasant driving in it, either. We waited at the airport till the storm cleared. I’ve never seen so much rain and lightning than in a summer Florida storm before. .. 5 out of 3 people have problems with fractions MJT Take a "p" out of gipps for an email reply Gippsland, Victoria, Australia

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Didn’t mean to scaremonger, Martin. You can take some small comfort from the fact that at high altitudes (the altitudes we were talking about, jet cruising altitudes) you are usually in the clear and can see the cells.  Also, jet aircraft are usually fitted with weather radar so even if the aircraft is not in the clear, the pilot can usually "see" the storm on the radar and divert around it.  ATC can usually accommodate a diversion to avoid turbulance.   It gets trickier lower down, eg in climb or descent and in the vicinity of the airport.  Traffic is denser.   ATC will still accommodate diversions but it’s more difficult and traffic flows may suffer as a result.   The decision to land or depart when there is a thunderstorm in the immediate vicinity of an airport is a joint pilot-ATC responsibility. ATC is responsible for runway selection and providing as much info as possible to the pilot.  The ultimate go/no-go decision is the pilot’s. Smaller, and especially propellor driven aircraft (your Dash 8 in Florida), are generally less susceptible to wind shear and may go where a larger jet will not. If a pilot chooses to go it will be because he asses it as safe.  It will not necessarily be comfortable!  I’m aware that is of little consolation to people who suffer a fear of flying, etc.  Passengers’ comfort and their perception of the airline company and its performance may form part of the pilot’s go/no-go decision.  We (ATC) don’t consider that at all – not our job. Cheers Frank Frank Paterson said.. FP So yes, Martin, the storms can and do get that high, and they’re FP significant. Hmmm. How comforting. I watched some people I know depart Fort Lauderdale airport during a thunderstorm.

The opinions expressed above are mine and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have heard an account from a U2 pilot diverting around a storm at 100,000 feet!  I have seen many well above F410 in Australia. When I was working in Darwin NASA had their E2 (or U2 if you wish) and a Herc (or perhaps Orion – memory fade) doing data gathering on tropical storms. The E2 used to fly on top of the CBs and the poor old turboprop had to go into the guts of it. The E2 advised one afternoon that they were 5000 ft above the highest anvil they had ever seen and they were at FL690. On another note, a Flight Service Officer asked the E2 for his actual level for traffic purposes and he stated if you get anything above FL600 let me know and I’ll give the traffic my level. Alan

The second anecdote suggests the accuracy of the first. These posts are getting like fishing stories. Is there anybody reading from the BOM or Guinness book of record lies to adjudicate. cowboy Before you buy.

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Frank Paterson said..  FP So yes, Martin, the storms can and do get that high, and they’re  FP significant. Hmmm. How comforting. I watched some people I know depart Fort Lauderdale airport during a thunderstorm. For those who’ve never experienced tropical thunderstorms, it was one of the scariest moments of our lives. I could have sworn that the Dash 8 (I think it was) was hit as it rotated. It wasn’t pleasant driving in it, either. We waited at the airport till the storm cleared. I’ve never seen so much rain and lightning than in a summer Florida storm before.

The major airports in the USA are now fitted with LLWAS Low Level Wind Shear Alert  Systems utilising doppler weather radar that defines the heart of the shear and the position of it to the or an active runway. It gives a clear warning to the tower operator.There is no way an aeroplane would take off into such a storm if the alert system gave a warning. No pilot would take off into the heart of a cell. In Australia we recall the loss of the Vickers Viscount that was lost at the mouth of Botany Bay. The Sec general of the UN, Dag hammersjold ??? was lost in the Belgium Congo in the same situation. We don’t have as much moisture in the atmosphere in Aust to generated the conditions that you describe. It could have been a mature ’supercell’ thunderstorm but even though it looked black dark and horrible it was not in the immediate path of the departing traffic. They don’t pay enough for a pilot to take off into such a storm and in answer to Frank P’s post, no pilot would take off into one just to maintain the perceived passenger image of his airline……. and would the pax want him too. cowboy Before you buy.

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There have been T-storms in Oklahoma with recored tops at over 75000 ft and I don’t know of any higher that have been reported but the best weather radar equipment in the world is there so it could be theres higher storms where no one is looking. The atomsphere where storms from is about 20,000 ft at the poles to about 60,000 ft at the equator.  Of course there are exceptions and they build storms that eat trailer parks. -tim http://web.abnormal.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -My old Met instructor Billy Ware went to great lengths to explain that storms have a greater capacity for vertical growth the closer you get to the equator. This is due to the greater height of the atmosphere at the equator, which in turn is related to its higher rotational velocity than the atmosphere at the poles. Generally storms are limited by the tropopause. Which is definitely higher the closer you get to the equator.

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Hi Frank & others Indeed your right about ATC accomodating traffic diversions Frank. I was listening to Adelaide App/Dep and Centre one Sunday night while a row of TS went through ADL (listening on my scanner that is – tucked up in bed where VFR Pilot’s should be on such a night:-)   ) A Bae146 departed ADL for MEL and very soon after takeoff reported that his WX radar had failed. With  the assistance of ATC ground based WX radar and reports from other a/c,   ATC managed to steer this 146 left and right and all over the place clear of buildups until he was about 100DME east. Always interesting listening when times are busy and WX is bad TTFN – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Didn’t mean to scaremonger, Martin. You can take some small comfort from the fact that at high altitudes (the altitudes we were talking about, jet cruising altitudes) you are usually in the clear and can see the cells.  Also, jet aircraft are usually fitted with weather radar so even if the aircraft is not in the clear, the pilot can usually "see" the storm on the radar and divert around it.  ATC can usually accommodate a diversion to avoid turbulance.   It gets trickier lower down, eg in climb or descent and in the vicinity of the airport.  Traffic is denser.   ATC will still accommodate diversions but it’s more difficult and traffic flows may suffer as a result.   The decision to land or depart when there is a thunderstorm in the immediate vicinity of an airport is a joint pilot-ATC responsibility. ATC is responsible for runway selection and providing as much info as possible to the pilot.  The ultimate go/no-go decision is the pilot’s. Smaller, and especially propellor driven aircraft (your Dash 8 in Florida), are generally less susceptible to wind shear and may go where a larger jet will not. If a pilot chooses to go it will be because he asses it as safe.  It will not necessarily be comfortable!  I’m aware that is of little consolation to people who suffer a fear of flying, etc.  Passengers’ comfort and their perception of the airline company and its performance may form part of the pilot’s go/no-go decision.  We (ATC) don’t consider that at all – not our job. Cheers Frank

Ben Matthes. Adelaide, Australia.

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Last night, I watch a short Australian show. It started off with the characters on board a B747. It was flying in a storm, amidst rain, lightning, the whole bit. Now, given that these A/C can cruise at up to Fl 400 or more, do storms actually occur that high up? I’ve left MEL on some pretty shitty days, and other cities as well, where there’s been 100% cloud cover, lots of rain etc. Yet, when at cruise, the clouds seemed to be a long way below us. Probably just another television show where the producers, as usual, have their heads up their arses, when it comes to authentic plots and storylines. .. He’s old for his age. MJT Take a "p" out of gipps for an email reply Gippsland, Victoria, Australia

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the big towering storms up north in the wet often reach towards 50 000ft.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Last night, I watch a short Australian show. It started off with the characters on board a B747. It was flying in a storm, amidst rain, lightning, the whole bit. Now, given that these A/C can cruise at up to Fl 400 or more, do storms actually occur that high up? I’ve left MEL on some pretty shitty days, and other cities as well, where there’s been 100% cloud cover, lots of rain etc. Yet, when at cruise, the clouds seemed to be a long way below us. Probably just another television show where the producers, as usual, have their heads up their arses, when it comes to authentic plots and storylines. .. He’s old for his age. MJT Take a "p" out of gipps for an email reply Gippsland, Victoria, Australia

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Generally, if it has lightning in it, then it will go up a long way…. JB

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Last night, I watch a short Australian show. It started off with the characters on board a B747. It was flying in a storm, amidst rain, lightning, the whole bit. Now, given that these A/C can cruise at up to Fl 400 or more, do storms actually occur that high up? I’ve left MEL on some pretty shitty days, and other cities as well, where there’s been 100% cloud cover, lots of rain etc. Yet, when at cruise, the clouds seemed to be a long way below us. Probably just another television show where the producers, as usual, have their heads up their arses, when it comes to authentic plots and storylines. .. He’s old for his age. MJT Take a "p" out of gipps for an email reply Gippsland, Victoria, Australia

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We were on cruise a few years back on the way to Bangkok from Melb around 39,000 ft when we entered a violent thunderstorm and the plane was hit but seemed to emerge totally undamaged. We were surrounded by storms all with tops way higher than us. Bernie Samms Kingston Beach Tasmania Australia Aero Club of Southern Tasmania   www.acst.com.au Prologic Pty Ltd                           www.prologic.com.au

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Last night, I watch a short Australian show. It started off with the characters on board a B747. It was flying in a storm, amidst rain, lightning, the whole bit. Now, given that these A/C can cruise at up to Fl 400 or more, do storms actually occur that high up? I’ve left MEL on some pretty shitty days, and other cities as well, where there’s been 100% cloud cover, lots of rain etc. Yet, when at cruise, the clouds seemed to be a long way below us. Probably just another television show where the producers, as usual, have their heads up their arses, when it comes to authentic plots and storylines. .. He’s old for his age. MJT Take a "p" out of gipps for an email reply Gippsland, Victoria, Australia

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the big towering storms up north in the wet often reach towards 50 000ft.

I thought I’d heard mention of storm tops to 75 0000ft when I was in Isa, but then I’m Tech not Met so I wouldn’t be sure… — If one synchronised swimmer drowns, do the rest have to drown too? Take out the zigzag or you’ll miss us…

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A friend of mine was recently flying a corporate jet at 47,000 somewhere between Broom and Alice Springs, bound for Sydney.  They diverted around the top of a storm by what should have been an adequate margin but copped lateral gusts.  The envelope for there aircraft is not big up there and the airspeed fluctuations required *very* urgent descent.  I think he said they got a stall warning and almost a stick shaker. So yes, Martin, the storms can and do get that high, and they’re significant. Cheers Frank Last night, I watch a short Australian show. It started off with the characters on board a B747. It was flying in a storm, amidst rain, lightning, the whole bit. Now, given that these A/C can cruise at up to Fl 400 or more, do storms actually occur that high up?

The opinions expressed above are mine and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.

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Martin . You may care to contact me with your email ad for a few pics I’ve taken at FL390 in Asia re: thunderstorms. Mike    http://www.newsfeeds.com       The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!

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My old Met instructor Billy Ware went to great lengths to explain that storms have a greater capacity for vertical growth the closer you get to the equator. This is due to the greater height of the atmosphere at the equator, which in turn is related to its higher rotational velocity than the atmosphere at the poles. Generally storms are limited by the tropopause. Which is definitely higher the closer you get to the equator. My experience was that if Bill said it then generally it was true.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Last night, I watch a short Australian show. It started off with the characters on board a B747. It was flying in a storm, amidst rain, lightning, the whole bit. Now, given that these A/C can cruise at up to Fl 400 or more, do storms actually occur that high up? I’ve left MEL on some pretty shitty days, and other cities as well, where there’s been 100% cloud cover, lots of rain etc. Yet, when at cruise, the clouds seemed to be a long way below us. Probably just another television show where the producers, as usual, have their heads up their arses, when it comes to authentic plots and storylines. .. He’s old for his age. MJT Take a "p" out of gipps for an email reply Gippsland, Victoria, Australia

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Question:

1996 Astro 15 footer 90 HP mercury outboard motorguide RF trolling motor custom cover custom trailor.                                $7995.00 Call Tom Bauer 1-908-686-2800

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Hi Guys, I just started coming to this news group in addition to the fly fishing newsgroups I subscribe to.  I was once such a hard core bass fisherman that I never went fishing without my boat.  Now I do both stream and lake fishing with my first love being fishing for bass and preferably with a fly rod. Being on this group is great!  However, I am surprised at the amount of advertising showing up here.  Is this a valid forum for advertising your used fishing gear? Pete

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 1996 Astro 15 footer 90 HP mercury outboard motorguide RF trolling motor custom cover custom trailor.                                $7995.00 Call Tom Bauer 1-908-686-2800

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I believe personal gear is ok.  Trying to pass off comercial for personal is a no no. Brian – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Guys, I just started coming to this news group in addition to the fly fishing newsgroups I subscribe to.  I was once such a hard core bass fisherman that I never went fishing without my boat.  Now I do both stream and lake fishing with my first love being fishing for bass and preferably with a fly rod. Being on this group is great!  However, I am surprised at the amount of advertising showing up here.  Is this a valid forum for advertising your used fishing gear? Pete 1996 Astro 15 footer 90 HP mercury outboard motorguide RF trolling motor custom cover custom trailor.                                $7995.00 Call Tom Bauer 1-908-686-2800

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The Guidelines allows posting of personal advertisements, as long as the subject specifies ‘For Sale.’ — Go fishing. And may your fish be as big as your tales!    Columbia SC, Lake Murray

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Thanks. Pete

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The Guidelines allows posting of personal advertisements, as long as the subject specifies ‘For Sale.’ — Go fishing. And may your fish be as big as your tales!    Columbia SC, Lake Murray

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Question:

i am going fishing in june lake from september 1-6, and i was wondering if anyone could give me recommended spots or suggestions for fly- fishing and spinner baits.         thanks, david dimond

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I am assuming that your referring to June Lake Loop, in California. June lake itself has been good to me and my family for trolling and bait soaking along the south east shore. Silver Lake offers protection from foul weather as you can hide behind the island and is my favorite in the loop. If you fish Silver lake you MUST fish Rush Creek which runs between Silver and Grant lake. If you have the time and appreciate your surroundings, I would head north on 395 and float tube Virginia Lakes (top of the summit above Mono Lake). For lunkers you should head south to Lake Crowley and again this lake is best float tubed, though you can fish from shore (alligator point). I prefer float tubing lakes which should justify my preferences. Best lure is Panther Martin "pm4,pm6 I think?" black with red dots, gold flash. Streamers would be olive matuka (with red throat), olive, black and purple wooly buggers. Terrestrial’s (hopper,cricket, ant) should be considered this time of year (rush creek), look around you. Caddis, adams and mosquito on the dry flies and if all else fails use the zug bug. Best of luck to you. There are just too many places to fish and enjoy life in that general area of the eastern sierra’s.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i am going fishing in june lake from september 1-6, and i was wondering if anyone could give me recommended spots or suggestions for fly- fishing and spinner baits.  thanks, david dimond

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Question:

I can beat that one – I caught a fly that I lost two weeks prior on the Salmon River in upstate NY right in the eye!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I once caught a dead raccoon on a nymph…someone had set a steel-jawed trap which got the raccoon by the creek and it had drowned. Strange catches I’ve had, A Swallow who took my dry fly off the surface of the water. This was very interesting, Them little birds put up a pretty good fight. And yes it was catch and release for this critter. On another outing, I caught a Mud Hen, simular to a duck, but with a pointed beak. Caught this critter on the foot on a streamer. Guess we got snagged up together while he was swimming under water. Thought I had hooked into a record fish before the bird came jumping out of the water with my streamer tangled in its feet. Took me right down to the backing and then some before breaking the #5 tippet.

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I once caught a dead raccoon on a nymph…someone had set a steel-jawed trap which got the raccoon by the creek and it had drowned. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Strange catches I’ve had, A Swallow who took my dry fly off the surface of the water. This was very interesting, Them little birds put up a pretty good fight. And yes it was catch and release for this critter. On another outing, I caught a Mud Hen, simular to a duck, but with a pointed beak. Caught this critter on the foot on a streamer. Guess we got snagged up together while he was swimming under water. Thought I had hooked into a record fish before the bird came jumping out of the water with my streamer tangled in its feet. Took me right down to the backing and then some before breaking the #5 tippet.

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I caught a bat on a dry fly after he picked it up off the water.

I, too, hooked a bat on a dry fly – on my back cast. It crash landed under a huge overhanging Sycamore next to a cutbank, and was immediately grabbed by a huge brown trout. This was on the East Branch of the Delaware below Shinhopple. I was about 12 years old at the time. I’m 53 now, and still trying to come up with a recipe for a "batfly" I can actually cast. Regards, Dennis Loveland, CO

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My strangest catch happened when I technically wasn’t even fishing. Years ago, my friend Walt and I and our wives were camping at a high sierra lake and he and I were fishing from a boat. We quit fishing when it got dark and headed back toward camp, and in the total darkness were following the snowbanks visible on shore as reference points. Being this dark, I was being cautious (and cold) and had the motor at a real low speed. As we were slowly moving along, we suddenly heard a thump as something  landed in the boat and began thrashing around. We turned on the flashlight only to find a 10" rainbow had attempted to commit suicide by jumping into the boat. We were both stunned and began laughing and asked each other if we could believe what we just saw happen. Of course, our wives didn’t believe a word of it and accused us of working overtime on a good "fishing tale". To this day Walt and I crack up whenever we talk about it. FS – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My strangest catch is actually my wife’s. We were bait-fishing for bluegill in Wisconsin twelve years ago (before I learned fly fishing).  She was using a little 3 foot  kid’s rod with a Zebco 202 Jr. reel. She hooked a little bait stealer bluegill about 2 inches long.  as she brought it over the side of the row boat, I saw something out of the corner of my eye flying over the side of the boat, in pursuit of the little bluegill.  It was long and thin with a very large mouth filled with teeth. It landed in between us…right on top of my open tackle box (there is a lesson in that)  and thrashed around. Thinking it a snake, I almost jumped out of the boat!  But it turned out to be a 25 1/2 inch Northern Pike!  Since we caught it "on the fly"  I guess you could call it "fly" fishing. Tight lines…… Ken Wells Saturday when I went fishing, I managed to wrap my leader around a dragon fly while it was going by. I was so astounded I just stood there and watched the dragon fly go around in circles. Finally the dragon fly landed in the stream, and when it did a bass tried to jump on it, but I guess that helped untangle the dragon fly and both bass and dragon fly went on their way. I did catch a lot of nice small mouth bass and panfish too. I know this sounds like a fish story, but it is true.

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I had a similar experience yesterday.  I was casting a wooly bugger to a decent largemouth I had spotted hiding under a tallish bridge.  On my second or third sidearm cast, a swallow went zipping by just in time to have my tippet about 4 inches up from my fly land across its back.  He took my fly 6-7 feet off course before slipping out from under my leader. Come to think of it, that may have been the best fight I had all day. : Saturday when I went fishing, I managed to wrap my leader around a : dragon fly while it was going by. I was so astounded I just stood there : and watched the dragon fly go around in circles. Finally the dragon : fly landed in the stream, and when it did a bass tried to jump on it, : but I guess that helped untangle the dragon fly and both bass and dragon : fly went on their way. : I did catch a lot of nice small mouth bass and panfish too. : I know this sounds like a fish story, but it is true. —                        http://members.tripod.com/~trunculo/index

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Strange catches I’ve had, A Swallow who took my dry fly off the surface of the water. This was very interesting, Them little birds put up a pretty good fight. And yes it was catch and release for this critter. On another outing, I caught a Mud Hen, simular to a duck, but with a pointed beak. Caught this critter on the foot on a streamer. Guess we got snagged up together while he was swimming under water. Thought I had hooked into a record fish before the bird came jumping out of the water with my streamer tangled in its feet. Took me right down to the backing and then some before breaking the #5 tippet.

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Saturday when I went fishing, I managed to wrap my leader around a dragon fly while it was going by. I was so astounded I just stood there and watched the dragon fly go around in circles. Finally the dragon fly landed in the stream, and when it did a bass tried to jump on it, but I guess that helped untangle the dragon fly and both bass and dragon fly went on their way. I did catch a lot of nice small mouth bass and panfish too. I know this sounds like a fish story, but it is true.

John I was fishing off of Bronte pier, chuck clios on a spinning rig.  I was tossing out as far as I could, which produced a big belly of mono in the air.  A seagull flew into the belly and got himself all wrapped up.  I actually had to play him like a fish and land him where a few spectators and I, could cut him loose. I’ve also had seagulls pick up surface plugs, then drop them when I yanked real hard.  Once I also beaned a seagull unintentionally with a red devil, when I was a kid. The seagull problem has drpped off now that I flyfish only, but I’m still waiting for a swallow or bat to pick off my Henryville on the backcast. Peter

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Strange catches I’ve had, A Swallow who took my dry fly off the surface of the water. This was very interesting, Them little birds put up a pretty good fight. And yes it was catch and release for this critter. On another outing, I caught a Mud Hen, simular to a duck, but with a pointed beak. Caught this critter on the foot on a streamer. Guess we got snagged up together while he was swimming under water. Thought I had hooked into a record fish before the bird came jumping out of the water with my streamer tangled in its feet. Took me right down to the backing and then some before breaking the #5 tippet.

I have caught a cormorant (large black sea bird) on a herring cutplug, and a seagull the same way. I have also caught a river otter on a Squamish Poacher pattern on an eight weight. You want to see a good fight! unbelievable! The tough part was trying to get the hook(barbless) out of his nose without getting bit. I couldn’t do it. Fortunately the hook was only caught in a bit of skin on top of his nose and eventually pulled out. He had a sore nose but I don’t think he was any worse for it. I think he’ll have a closer look at any big shrimp in the Thompson river before biting though. I also caught a bat on a Tom Thumb, but thats a different story.

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Saturday when I went fishing, I managed to wrap my leader around a dragon fly while it was going by. I was so astounded I just stood there          <<snip I was fishing off of Bronte pier, chuck clios on a spinning rig.  I was tossing out as far as I could, which produced a big belly of mono in the air.  A seagull flew into the belly and got himself all wrapped up.

       <<snip The seagull problem has drpped off now that I flyfish only, but I’m still waiting for a swallow or bat to pick off my Henryville on the backcast. Peter

I believe I hve related this tale to ROFF before, but two years ago while on the Northwest Branch of the Potomac, I had a bat take a White Wulff on the backcast.  I unknowingly set the hook as I started the rod forward. thinking that I had snagged some vegetation, at first, I was surprised…no alarmed to see this bat suddenly take off out of the water trailing my line.  This certainly got my heart rate up.  Not wanting to drown the poor beast, I made my way to shore and slowly pulled the bat in. It was of course all in a panic, and finally got the line tangled in some low brush, and fell to the ground.  It was a little thing, not much bigger than a golf ball with wings.  Now, I didn’t want the creature to spend have to live with a yard of mono trailing behind, but I didn’t want to get bit either (visions of rabies or some other horrid infection flashed through my mind).  Another fisherman on the scene covered the bat with his net, I clipped and untangled the line, he gently shook the animal out of the net, and we sprinted about 10 yards away.  In a minute or two the bat flew away, and I called it a day. Paul Price, Ph.D. Postdoctoral Fellow Dept. Microbiology and Immunology School of Medicine University of Maryland at Baltimore

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My strangest catch is actually my wife’s. We were bait-fishing for bluegill in Wisconsin twelve years ago (before I learned fly fishing).  She was using a little 3 foot  kid’s rod with a Zebco 202 Jr. reel. She hooked a little bait stealer bluegill about 2 inches long.  as she brought it over the side of the row boat, I saw something out of the corner of my eye flying over the side of the boat, in pursuit of the little bluegill.  It was long and thin with a very large mouth filled with teeth. It landed in between us…right on top of my open tackle box (there is a lesson in that)  and thrashed around. Thinking it a snake, I almost jumped out of the boat!  But it turned out to be a 25 1/2 inch Northern Pike!  Since we caught it "on the fly"  I guess you could call it "fly" fishing. Tight lines…… Ken Wells – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Saturday when I went fishing, I managed to wrap my leader around a dragon fly while it was going by. I was so astounded I just stood there and watched the dragon fly go around in circles. Finally the dragon fly landed in the stream, and when it did a bass tried to jump on it, but I guess that helped untangle the dragon fly and both bass and dragon fly went on their way. I did catch a lot of nice small mouth bass and panfish too. I know this sounds like a fish story, but it is true.

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Saturday when I went fishing, I managed to wrap my leader around a dragon fly while it was going by. I was so astounded I just stood there and watched the dragon fly go around in circles. Finally the dragon fly landed in the stream, and when it did a bass tried to jump on it, but I guess that helped untangle the dragon fly and both bass and dragon fly went on their way. I did catch a lot of nice small mouth bass and panfish too. I know this sounds like a fish story, but it is true.

Never lassoed a dragonfly, but did catch a bat while fishing at night for bass. he didn’t care much for the net when I landed him. dewayne

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I caught a bat on a dry fly after he picked it up off the water.  Wasn’t as nice or brave as the other folks who have posted here.  I cut the thing loose with about 4 feet of line still attached.  I’m pretty sure it drown.  I also nailed a bat with my rod on my forward cast.  THWACK! Scared the heck out of me.  He ended up in the water about 20 feet away. I don’t think he made it either. Brian

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Is this bait fishing ?!!!

 I don’t know – it could be proxy fishing. You were flyfishing when you cast, and you pulled out a fish hooked up on you’re fly. What happened in between casting and landing was entirely up to the fish. To the charge of bait fishing…..Not guilty:-) Regards, — Bill

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writes       Mr. Endicott was clearly flyfishing, and shall be absolved of guilt.        The <bluegill, on the other hand, is in real trouble.

I believe the bluegill was guilty of soliciting! — Bill

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Now, I didn’t want the creature to spend have to live with a yard of mono trailing behind, but I didn’t want to get bit either (visions of rabies or some other horrid infection flashed through my mind).   Paul Price, Ph.D. Postdoctoral Fellow Dept. Microbiology and Immunology School of Medicine University of Maryland at Baltimore

A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing! A lot of knowledge can be terrifying! — Bill

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Never lassoed a dragonfly, but did catch a bat while fishing at night for bass. he didn’t care much for the net when I landed him.

I was talking to some fisher friend in Mid Wales, and one related a tale about fishing for salmon using a bunch of worms.  The tippet was joined to the cast by a large loop to loop and the whole set up was dunked up and down in a deep pool.  On the change of direction from up to down, the loops opened up and a salmon got "lassoed" in one of the loops. You may ask was *that* bait fishing! — Bill

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The seagull problem has drpped off now that I flyfish only, but I’m still waiting for a swallow or bat to pick off my Henryville on the backcast.

 Do you think the seagulls have learned that you spell trouble?…:-) I’ve had bats dive after a small Mepp spinner while evening fishing, but thankfully never hooked one. — Bill

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William Endicott writes:

That story brings about a question: While fishing the local Park pond I hooked a 2 inch Bluegill by mistake. That Bluegill was immediately swallowed by a 6 pound Bass. This has happened previously with the Bass spitting the Bluegill out on the first jump.  However, on this occasion the fly disconnected from the Bluegill and hooked the Bass !!!  I then proceeded to catch the Bass on my 7′ 3wt bluegill rod. Is this bait fishing ?!!! Answer:         Mr. Endicott was clearly flyfishing, and shall be absolved of guilt.           The <bluegill, on the other hand, is in real trouble.

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Sounds like a fish story to me. —                                     Jeff Olsen If you don"t know your rights,                                            you have none. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – William Endicott writes: That story brings about a question: While fishing the local Park pond I hooked a 2 inch Bluegill by mistake. That Bluegill was immediately swallowed by a 6 pound Bass. This has happened previously with the Bass spitting the Bluegill out on the first jump.  However, on this occasion the fly disconnected from the Bluegill and hooked the Bass !!!  I then proceeded to catch the Bass on my 7′ 3wt bluegill rod. Is this bait fishing ?!!! Answer:    Mr. Endicott was clearly flyfishing, and shall be absolved of guilt.      The <bluegill, on the other hand, is in real trouble.

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I have had gar and catfish chase small sunfish I caught.  Haven’t been lucky enough to have a bass chase it. Runt d:P – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That story brings about a question: While fishing the local Park pond I hooked a 2 inch Bluegill by mistake. That Bluegill was immediately swallowed by a 6 pound Bass. This has happened previously with the Bass spitting the Bluegill out on the first jump.  However, on this occasion the fly disconnected from the Bluegill and hooked the Bass !!!  I then proceeded to catch the Bass on my 7′ 3wt bluegill rod. Is this bait fishing ?!!! Bill — William Endicott Saturday when I went fishing, I managed to wrap my leader around a dragon fly while it was going by. I was so astounded I just stood there and watched the dragon fly go around in circles. Finally the dragon fly landed in the stream, and when it did a bass tried to jump on it, but I guess that helped untangle the dragon fly and both bass and dragon fly went on their way. I did catch a lot of nice small mouth bass and panfish too. I know this sounds like a fish story, but it is true.

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That story brings about a question: While fishing the local Park pond I hooked a 2 inch Bluegill by mistake. That Bluegill was immediately swallowed by a 6 pound Bass. This has happened previously with the Bass spitting the Bluegill out on the first jump.  However, on this occasion the fly disconnected from the Bluegill and hooked the Bass !!!  I then proceeded to catch the Bass on my 7′ 3wt bluegill rod. Is this bait fishing ?!!! Bill — William Endicott – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Saturday when I went fishing, I managed to wrap my leader around a dragon fly while it was going by. I was so astounded I just stood there and watched the dragon fly go around in circles. Finally the dragon fly landed in the stream, and when it did a bass tried to jump on it, but I guess that helped untangle the dragon fly and both bass and dragon fly went on their way. I did catch a lot of nice small mouth bass and panfish too. I know this sounds like a fish story, but it is true.

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That story brings about a question: While fishing the local Park pond I hooked a 2 inch Bluegill by mistake. That Bluegill was immediately swallowed by a 6 pound Bass. This has happened previously with the Bass spitting the Bluegill out on the first jump.  However, on this occasion the fly disconnected from the Bluegill and hooked the Bass !!!  I then proceeded to catch the Bass on my 7′ 3wt bluegill rod. Is this bait fishing ?!!! Bill

Bill:   Of course it’s bait fishing, and you are hereby and herewith summarily dismissed from FFF, TU and all other alphabetized organizations.  By the way, that 2 inch bluegill is right up there with my normal catches.                      Mark Faulkner

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<<That story brings about a question: While fishing the local Park pond I hooked a 2 inch Bluegill by mistake. That Bluegill was immediately swallowed by a 6 pound Bass. This has happened previously with the Bass spitting the Bluegill out on the first jump.  However, on this occasion the fly disconnected from the Bluegill and hooked the Bass !!!  I then proceeded to catch the Bass on my 7′ 3wt bluegill rod. Is this bait fishing ?!!! Bill — William Endicott I had a similar experience on my favorite trout river in British Columbia a few years back.  A thunder storm was rapidly rolling in.  Just before all heck broke loose, the fish started rising like crazy.  I was casting a million miles an hour trying to catch that last fish before I ran for cover.  A little 3 inch trout took the fly and as I was reeling it in, a huge rainbow came out of the water and dove down on it.  He missed the fish but continued to chase it.  I was so mesmerized by the whole event, I didn’t even think to stop reeling and let him take the little fish.  Finally, the big fish turned away about 5 feet from me.   Mike

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That story brings about a question: While fishing the local Park pond I hooked a 2 inch Bluegill by mistake. That Bluegill was immediately swallowed by a 6 pound Bass. This has happened previously with the Bass spitting the Bluegill out on the first jump.  However, on this occasion the fly disconnected from the Bluegill and hooked the Bass !!!  I then proceeded to catch the Bass on my 7′ 3wt bluegill rod. Is this bait fishing ?!!! Bill

Yup.  You’re busted.  Turn in all your FF’ing gear.   Send it to me and I’ll send you a trotline and a good doughball recipe. Bob Scott

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I know this sounds like a fish story, but it is true.

You know the difference between a Fairy Tale and a Fish Story?  Well, the Fairy Tale begins, "Once upon a time", and the Fish Story begins, (holding hands at least two feet apart) "Now this is no shit"! Yippee Tie One On! AuSable1

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Question:

Anyone know of a good trout stream where the fish are wild and reasonably large (14-19")?  The thing is, it needs to be public water that I can drive to.  Also, I was hoping someone could suggest one where there will be no other anglers, and where the fish take small dry flies.  They don’t have to be really easy to catch, but I’m hoping they won’t be too leader shy either.  Another thing – I’d like it to be clean, and there should be rough campsites there, clean ones. You know, a fire ring, but without burnt cans and plastic cups and plates in it. No toilet paper in the bushes either.  Any suggestions? JE

JE,  If it’s brooktrout (native)..from Boston you’ve got to motor up 6-7hrs into northern Maine.  This is for *consistent* 14-19" takes. Get out the gas card;-) tight_lines, steve d.

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Your talking about the Steeprock River in Manitoba but it may be a way to drive ….. and try 22". You might see another human footprint if you fish it for a month. — — Bob Sheedy Angling Adventures North Lake Fly Fishing On-Line Magazine Home of MASTER ANGLER Fishing Software http://www.articfire.com/arcfire/fishing.htm

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Anyone know of a good trout stream where the fish are wild and reasonably large (14-19")?  The thing is, it needs to be public water that I can drive to.  Also, I was hoping someone could suggest one where there will be no other anglers, and where the fish take small dry flies.  They don’t have to be really easy to catch, but I’m hoping they won’t be too leader shy either.  Another thing – I’d like it to be clean, and there should be rough campsites there, clean ones. You know, a fire ring, but without burnt cans and plastic cups and plates in it. No toilet paper in the bushes either.  Any suggestions? JE

Boy you don’t ask for much, do you <g? Any requests for the weather? Peter G. Aitken         Give me half of the above and I’ll take any and all weather!!! JE

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you want ancovies with that?

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Anyone know of a good trout stream where the fish are wild and reasonably large (14-19")?  The thing is, it needs to be public water that I can drive to.  Also, I was hoping someone could suggest one where there will be no other anglers, and where the fish take small dry flies.  They don’t have to be really easy to catch, but I’m hoping they won’t be too leader shy either.  Another thing – I’d like it to be clean, and there should be rough campsites there, clean ones. You know, a fire ring, but without burnt cans and plastic cups and plates in it. No toilet paper in the bushes either.  Any suggestions? JE

John Plenty of such places in the mountain country of mainland SE Australia and in the high country of Tasmania. But don’t tell anyone else. Cheers Peter

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Anyone know of a good trout stream where the fish are wild and reasonably large (14-19")?  The thing is, it needs to be public water that I can drive to.  Also, I was hoping someone could suggest one where there will be no other anglers, and where the fish take small dry flies.  They don’t have to be really easy to catch, but I’m hoping they won’t be too leader shy either.  Another thing – I’d like it to be clean, and there should be rough campsites there, clean ones. You know, a fire ring, but without burnt cans and plastic cups and plates in it. No toilet paper in the bushes either.  Any suggestions? JE

Go to the Cariboo, near Quesnel, BC.  Drive 3 hours beyond Quesnel, and look for any patch of water. Apply flies.  Catch fish.  Only catch is, Quesnel is a little ways (15hrs) from Seattle, which is a little ways from everywhere else.  The Stellako, west of Prince George, BC, is real good too.  It’s north and west of Quesnel about 4 hours. There will be few anglers.  The no anglers thing, would you mind passin’ what yer smokin’?  Any piece of water that can be driven to that has fish will have other people.  The question is how many.  The places I know that don’t have people, continue to not have people cuz I don’t post their names on the ‘Net.  Sorry, but that’s the way it is.   Hell I just spent a week on a river in Alaska that I had to fly an hour in a bush plane to get to, then float 70 miles down to get to the fish, and was surrounded by people (and bears) the whole time.  Caught some big ass rainbows, however.  On mice, too. — Andrew Brunette Remove "_nospam" in return address to respond

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Anyone know of a good trout stream where the fish are wild and reasonably large (14-19")?  The thing is, it needs to be public water that I can drive to.  Also, I was hoping someone could suggest one where there will be no other anglers, and where the fish take small dry flies.  They don’t have to be really easy to catch, but I’m hoping they won’t be too leader shy either.  Another thing – I’d like it to be clean, and there should be rough campsites there, clean ones. You know, a fire ring, but without burnt cans and plastic cups and plates in it. No toilet paper in the bushes either.  Any suggestions? JE

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Anyone know of a good trout stream where the fish are wild and reasonably large (14-19")?  The thing is, it needs to be public water that I can drive to.  Also, I was hoping someone could suggest one where there will be no other anglers, and where the fish take small dry flies.  They don’t have to be really easy to catch, but I’m hoping they won’t be too leader shy either.  Another thing – I’d like it to be clean, and there should be rough campsites there, clean ones. You know, a fire ring, but without burnt cans and plastic cups and plates in it. No toilet paper in the bushes either.  Any suggestions? JE

Boy you don’t ask for much, do you <g? Any requests for the weather? Peter G. Aitken

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Jon, Live a good life and if you are lucky, in the next life, you might just stumble across such a place.  However, with my luck, half this newsgroup will have proceeded you and the place will have been trashed!  :^) Mike – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone know of a good trout stream where the fish are wild and reasonably large (14-19")?  The thing is, it needs to be public water that I can drive to.  Also, I was hoping someone could suggest one where there will be no other anglers, and where the fish take small dry flies.  They don’t have to be really easy to catch, but I’m hoping they won’t be too leader shy either.  Another thing – I’d like it to be clean, and there should be rough campsites there, clean ones. You know, a fire ring, but without burnt cans and plastic cups and plates in it. No toilet paper in the bushes either.  Any suggestions? JE

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone know of a good trout stream where the fish are wild and reasonably large (14-19")?  The thing is, it needs to be public water that I can drive to.  Also, I was hoping someone could suggest one where there will be no other anglers, and where the fish take small dry flies.  They don’t have to be really easy to catch, but I’m hoping they won’t be too leader shy either.  Another thing – I’d like it to be clean, and there should be rough campsites there, clean ones. You know, a fire ring, but without burnt cans and plastic cups and plates in it. No toilet paper in the bushes either.  Any suggestions? JE

       ahhh sounds like your looking to fish out of your bathtub again, but then the fish are probally bigger in there than the ones you usually catch!;p CG

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Anyone know of a good trout stream where the fish are wild and reasonably large (14-19")?  The thing is, it needs to be public water that I can drive to.  Also, I was hoping someone could suggest one where there will be no other anglers, and where the fish take small dry flies.  They don’t have to be really easy to catch, but I’m hoping they won’t be too leader shy either.  Another thing – I’d like it to be clean, and there should be rough campsites there, clean ones. You know, a fire ring, but without burnt cans and plastic cups and plates in it. No toilet paper in the bushes either.  Any suggestions? JE

This sounds a bit too much like heaven to be comfortable… let me know if you find it -paul

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Question:

Try http://www.flyfield.com/clipart.htm There is a link on that site to a second page. Hmm.  I tried both links with no luck: "Not found".  Maybe these pages require plug-ins, or? — Ken Brown Satis elequontiae, sapientiae parum.

– "If the facts do not conform to the theory, they must be disposed of."      Maier’s Law

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 I have jumpe to both of these sites, and it tells me that the URL is  no longer available.  Are the addresses correct?  Thanks!

Try this – it worked for me.  first go to http://www.flyfield.com Then, when your into the main page, change the request to http://www.flyfield.com/xclipart2.htm The clipart 1 page doesn’t seem to work but the clipart 2 page does.  He doesn’t give you a link to it on his page though so you have to ask for it by address.

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Hmm.  I tried both links with no luck: "Not found".  Maybe these pages require plug-ins, or? — Ken Brown Satis elequontiae, sapientiae parum.

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Try this – it worked for me.  first go to http://www.flyfield.com Then, when your into the main page, change the request to http://www.flyfield.com/xclipart2.htm The clipart 1 page doesn’t seem to work but the clipart 2 page does.  He doesn’t give you a link to it on his page though so you have to ask for it by address.

Well, I’m sure sorry if I caused any problems here. I admit that I didn’t test those URLs before posting my reply to Joe. They work from my bookmark list but, being digitally challenged, I am at a loss to explain why they don’t from here.  Anyway, I think that you have the right explanation (above). However, I went to the Fly Field homepage and found the #1 clip art gallary working this morning. Again, I apologize for causing any problems with my efforts help a fellow newsletter editor. Perhaps one of the many technically versed members of this group could help explain this situation for us. Steve

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Same here.  I am very interested in these sites. Dave D

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I have jumpe to both of these sites, and it tells me that the URL is no longer available.  Are the addresses correct?  Thanks! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m the editor (still wet behind the ears!) of my TU Chapter’s newsletter.  Can anyone tell me where to access, for a fee or free, some sources of flyfishing clip art to stick in the corners of my newsletter?  I would appreciate any info you have. Skip James Check out the Fly & Field web site for Dave Whitlocks Clip Art gallery. It is at "http://www.flyfield.com/clipart.html". I also found a really interesting site at the Univeristy of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign. It is from their Entomology department and has terrific insect drawings. Check it out at "http://www.life.uiuc.edu/Entomology/insectsgifs.html". Hope this helps! Steve

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I’m the editor (still wet behind the ears!) of my TU Chapter’s newsletter.  Can anyone tell me where to access, for a fee or free, some sources of flyfishing clip art to stick in the corners of my newsletter?  I would appreciate any info you have. Skip James

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I’m the editor (still wet behind the ears!) of my TU Chapter’s newsletter.  Can anyone tell me where to access, for a fee or free, some sources of flyfishing clip art to stick in the corners of my newsletter?  I would appreciate any info you have. Skip James

Check out the Fly & Field web site for Dave Whitlocks Clip Art gallery. It is at "http://www.flyfield.com/clipart.html". I also found a really interesting site at the Univeristy of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign. It is from their Entomology department and has terrific insect drawings. Check it out at "http://www.life.uiuc.edu/Entomology/insectsgifs.html". Hope this helps! Steve

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Question:

I am interested in learning more about flyfishing for stripers in fresh water.  I live in the San Francisco Bay Area and would like any information that pertains to fishing the SF bay delta area as well.   I would like to know of good books to read and local quides to contact Thanks Stu Booth

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Good places for stripers in the SF area are Franks Tract in the Delta; you will need a boat, and the O’Neill Forebay of San Luis Reservoir which is accessible by canoe, float tube or boat.  The O’Neill is right at the intersection of Rte. 152 and I-5 near Los Banos jsut as you come down out of the Pacheco Pass into the Central Valley.  Although I haven’t caught one yet, there are reported to be a nice population of big stripers in this small lake. There are also stripers to be found in the main reservoir too, but it is a much more formidable piece of water. Pick up a copy of California Fly Fisher.  There are always ads for guides for striper fishing the bay and Franks tract in the back. Good luck–Crashjibe

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Question:

I haven’t received any mail today. Is the listserver down or is it my local mail handler…

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(Richard Hall) writes: I haven’t received any mail today. Is the listserver down or is it my

local mail handler… I didn’t even know there was a fly fishing mailing list.  How do I subscribe?

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