Question:

Larry I probably watched you fly over with the sling loaded. I was there in 67-68 most of my time was around Chu Chi, Long Benh, and Ben Wha. I left Siagon just two days before TET 1968 to come home. Got home and watched on TV places being blown up in Siagon that I had been at two days before. Jerry (also wondering where the time has gone) Springer

It just slipped by, one day at a time. Bob Reed www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com      (KIS Builders Site) KIS Cruiser in progress…Slow but steady progress…. "Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice, pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!" (M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)    

Response:

As he said lets start a war.:) I did not think that highway looked like the ones I remember in Vietnam in 1967 and 68. Jerry

Jerry:  Did the Vietnamese ever paint centerlines?  I think that highway is either in Mass. or in Wisconsin.  I forget…it’s been too long. See my post below.  I know I didn’t fool you older coots.  I was pulling the legs of the younger bucks. BWB

Response:

Here’s a shot just north of An Loc, north of Siagon in 1971 flying the hwy just inside the Cambodian Border.

Same shot is on your website…. http://www.angelfire.com/nv/rvpilot/Helicopter.html Caption reads: A shot going from Sprinfield Mass over to Albany New York in the summer of 1973. I’m flying in the left seat most of the time while everyone else sleeps although I’m not rated I’m having a blast. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I was working for the company in them thar days, flying up to the border (but not crossing) looking for NVA supplies coming from the north down the Ho Chi Minh trail, through Cambodia then back into South Viet Nam.  We were flying real high here….up in the nose-bleed section.  Actually this was a stupid move to be this high.  We were sitting ducks to any sporting young gook who was trying to make his mark and bring down a "Big Bird."  When we flew this high we always placed our service pistola under our genitalia to stop any spurious bulletos from removing our reproductive organals in one surgical swipe of a 25 grain piece of lead moving at 2000 fps vertically and through your seat. BWB

Response:

As he said lets start a war.:) I did not think that highway looked like the ones I remember in Vietnam in 1967 and 68. Jerry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here’s a shot just north of An Loc, north of Siagon in 1971 flying the hwy just inside the Cambodian Border. Same shot is on your website…. http://www.angelfire.com/nv/rvpilot/Helicopter.html Caption reads: A shot going from Sprinfield Mass over to Albany New York in the summer of 1973. I’m flying in the left seat most of the time while everyone else sleeps although I’m not rated I’m having a blast. I was working for the company in them thar days, flying up to the border (but not crossing) looking for NVA supplies coming from the north down the Ho Chi Minh trail, through Cambodia then back into South Viet Nam.  We were flying real high here….up in the nose-bleed section.  Actually this was a stupid move to be this high.  We were sitting ducks to any sporting young gook who was trying to make his mark and bring down a "Big Bird."  When we flew this high we always placed our service pistola under our genitalia to stop any spurious bulletos from removing our reproductive organals in one surgical swipe of a 25 grain piece of lead moving at 2000 fps vertically and through your seat. BWB

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Was in Vietnam 67-68,  in the south most of the time, with 2 different Companies. We had 3 chinooks, use for recovery standby. Our job was sling loading back to base shot down aircraft and some maintenance aircraft. As a crewchief we have to do all maintance work on the CH-47 also. Slept many nights on them. When gunship pilots were in Vienam after 2 months, a lot of them though they were cowboys that could not be shot down. A lot of dumb pilot errors. One of our 330th Chinooks, after 1 1/2 years of flight time, had recovered many hundreds of aircraft. Some day I will have to show a picture of the right side of the Ch-47, with all the painted emblems of the recovered aircraft. One time at Vung Tau, we are working on the aft rotors. We are right next to the refueling depot. A huey is refueling, Another huey set beside him to refuel also. Ah,  the 2 hueys well, they connected rotor blades.What a mess. One of my crew was working on the aft rotor, Jumped to the ground, thats a long jump.. What a mess of chopper parts all over. Came back from service and got my Comm helicopter rating and flew 6 different types. Now days, the cost per hour, is to high to fly them any more. So now, build  fix wing aircraft full time. Now 55 years old. Where did the last 34 Larry Fitzgerald

Larry I probably watched you fly over with the sling loaded. I was there in 67-68 most of my time was around Chu Chi, Long Benh, and Ben Wha. I left Siagon just two days before TET 1968 to come home. Got home and watched on TV places being blown up in Siagon that I had been at two days before. Jerry (also wondering where the time has gone) Springer

Response:

Bob, If it was not for the AFCS it would be a bear to fly. We practice with the AFCS in the off position just to keep in touch with the bird. When the back wheels are on the ground the AFCS is only working 3/4 gain. Once that switch opens the AFCS goes to full gain and if you are not ready you will be along for a ride. We practice two wheel taxi too. It is a difficult balance of controls. A good person does it all without the brakes. There is a sweet spot with the nose in the air. That is the spot where the aircraft will stay put. Raise the nose a little higher than that and you go backward, a little lower and you move forward. This technique is used to back-up without hovering. I think one of the most scariest things is to hover or taxi backward.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – All valid points but just a little trivia for ya, The CH-47 has a stick position indicator that must be at zero on the ground. Anything other than that will cause it to do weird things. (Snip) As Artie Johnson used to say, "Verrrrrrrry interesting!"  The AFCS in those ships must be incredible. Back in the 1960s, New York Airways operated the tandem rotor BV-107.  I was an excited twelve year-old, onboard one day when we touched down at JFK on the rear wheels, then taxied toward the Pan Am terminal with the front wheel still off the ground and the ship at a decidedly nose-up attitude.  Neato! My dad flew the predecessor of the CH-47, the Piasecki HUP-1 and HUP-2 way back in the day.  He related that they flew crappy in forward flight, as each rotor wanted to be "lead."  It wasn’t until Frankie’s team developed a workable helipilot for them that they got it to fly reasonably well. I landed in a buddies front yard last weekend in an R-44.  He’d told me to come by and do that anytime I was out screwing around. But, I never thought about his damn dogs.  As soon as I landed he came out and so did his two dogs.  Well, as dogs do, they went nuts watching this goofy machine sitting in their poop zone and ran at me.  They also ran at my tail for some reason. It is strange that dogs run for the tail rotor, and I’ve had that experience too and cannot explain it.  Luckily, the t/r of a 206 on high skids is, as you know, higher than most dogs, so they’d have to jump up to get it.  So far, *that* has thankfully not happened yet.  But with my luck…

Response:

All valid points but just a little trivia for ya, The CH-47 has a stick position indicator that must be at zero on the ground. Anything other than that will cause it to do weird things.

(Snip) As Artie Johnson used to say, "Verrrrrrrry interesting!"  The AFCS in those ships must be incredible. Back in the 1960s, New York Airways operated the tandem rotor BV-107.  I was an excited twelve year-old, onboard one day when we touched down at JFK on the rear wheels, then taxied toward the Pan Am terminal with the front wheel still off the ground and the ship at a decidedly nose-up attitude.  Neato!   My dad flew the predecessor of the CH-47, the Piasecki HUP-1 and HUP-2 way back in the day.  He related that they flew crappy in forward flight, as each rotor wanted to be "lead."  It wasn’t until Frankie’s team developed a workable helipilot for them that they got it to fly reasonably well. I landed in a buddies front yard last weekend in an R-44.  He’d told me to come by and do that anytime I was out screwing around. But, I never thought about his damn dogs.  As soon as I landed he came out and so did his two dogs.  Well, as dogs do, they went nuts watching this goofy machine sitting in their poop zone and ran at me.  They also ran at my tail for some reason.

It is strange that dogs run for the tail rotor, and I’ve had that experience too and cannot explain it.  Luckily, the t/r of a 206 on high skids is, as you know, higher than most dogs, so they’d have to jump up to get it.  So far, *that* has thankfully not happened yet.  But with my luck…

Response:

Was in Vietnam 67-68,  in the south most of the time, with 2 different Companies. We had 3 chinooks, use for recovery standby. Our job was sling loading back to base shot down aircraft and some maintenance aircraft. As a crewchief we have to do all maintance work on the CH-47 also. Slept many nights on them. When gunship pilots were in Vienam after 2 months, a lot of them though they were cowboys that could not be shot down. A lot of dumb pilot errors. One of our 330th Chinooks, after 1 1/2 years of flight time, had recovered many hundreds of aircraft. Some day I will have to show a picture of the right side of the Ch-47, with all the painted emblems of the recovered aircraft. One time at Vung Tau, we are working on the aft rotors. We are right next to the refueling depot. A huey is refueling, Another huey set beside him to refuel also. Ah,  the 2 hueys well, they connected rotor blades.What a mess. One of my crew was working on the aft rotor, Jumped to the ground, thats a long jump.. What a mess of chopper parts all over. Came back from service and got my Comm helicopter rating and flew 6 different types. Now days, the cost per hour, is to high to fly them any more. So now, build  fix wing aircraft full time. Now 55 years old. Where did the last 34 Larry Fitzgerald

Response:

The problem with crouching or ducking when approaching a helicopter is that people who are looking down at their sneakers are not looking where they’re going.  To paraphrase Martha Stewart, this is "a bad thing."   People talk about how a rotor can dip low.  And yes, approaching (or departing) any helicopter when the blades are not up to at least idle rpm is dangerous. Do not walk under undriven rotor blades!  Simple as that. Once the ship is idling, there is *usually* no danger to a man in a normal walk.  Although having said that, there are some small helicopters on low skid gear where the rotor is not all that high off the ground to begin with, in which the "idle" speed can be quite low (e.g. Enstrom).  Of the larger machines, only the Sikorsky S-76 poses a real danger (because of the low landing gear and forward tilt of the mast), but even it can be mitigated if the pilots simply pull back far enough on the cyclic to keep the tip path plane out of harm’s way. In all my years (20+) of flying helicopters, I’ve never had a gust of wind cause my idling rotor to do anything hinky.  Never.  Not saying it’ll won’t or couldn’t happen – just hasn’t.  (Start-up and shut-down?  Different story.) When I fly Bells, I keep the cyclic a little bit aft to hold the tip path plane up.  But I’ve seen pilots who are not very diligent about this.  Cyclics tend to fall forward if left unattended. A lot depends on which ship we’re talking about…  But if you’re a passenger who’s approaching a LongRanger on high-skids.  Can you depend on the pilot to make sure he keeps the tip path plane up and out of your way?  Sadly, no.  You better crouch a little just to be on the safe side.  Even I do, most of the time.  But please, "crouching" does not mean staring at the ground in a low-crawl.  Keep your head up so you can see, okay?  No baseball caps, and no fishing poles held over your shoulder. And no walking around the back of the ship.  That kind of thing makes our hearts stop…and could easily make yours stop too – permanently. "If you don’t know where you’re going,  Any road will take you there."                                          George Harrison

Response:

Slick = UH-1C or D model configured to haul bullits in and bodies out.  The bullets were "preventive medicine" called "dustoff"  now. LOH Light observation helicopter.  Forerunner of the 500 series helo’s. Worked in Hunter Killer teams usually, the loach would draw fire and the gunships would finish the fire.  One neat thing to note,  If a minigun was fixed on a hardpoint you had to have foreward momentum in order to fire, else the recoil would play havoc with the helicopter. BTW the LOH has evolved and is still in the inventory as the AH-6 and MH-6 of 160th SOAR fame. Instead of one minigun they now have two and FFAR boot. Still aimed the same way tho…….high tech grease pencil. and I was born in 71, am i yung enough fer ya ? all the best Sean "still dumpin shell casings out of the ruck and picken HE shrapnel outta the kevlar" Trost

Response:

    First Squadron, Ninth Cav         "Head Hunters"  First Cavalry Division (Airmoble)          1968 – 1969 I flew as a LOH crewchief for about 9 months. Hueys the rest of the year. Shot down twice. Crashed twice due to stupid pilot stunts. Yeah, the first time I was shot at, it was kind of "exhilerating".  The next 10 months weren’t so much fun. My "official" body count was 83, but I think 20 or 25 would be closer to reality.  It’s a Viet Nam thing. You wouldn’t understand… SP5 Richard Lamb       DFC

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here’s a shot just north of An Loc, north of Siagon in 1971 flying the hwy just inside the Cambodian Border. I was working for the company in them thar days, flying up to the border (but not crossing) looking for NVA supplies coming from the north down the Ho Chi Minh trail, through Cambodia then back into South Viet Nam.  We were flying real high here….up in the nose-bleed section.  Actually this was a stupid move to be this high.  We were sitting ducks to any sporting young gook who was trying to make his mark and bring down a "Big Bird."  When we flew this high we always placed our service pistola under our genitalia to stop any spurious bulletos from removing our reproductive organals in one surgical swipe of a 25 grain piece of lead moving at 2000 fps vertically and through your seat. BWB

Bill, I seem to remember a Shorts Skyvan poping into our base (Phu Loi 69-70) every once in a while. Along with the usual single engine stuff. Bill Higdon

Response:

Bob, All valid points but just a little trivia for ya, The CH-47 has a stick position indicator that must be at zero on the ground. Anything other than that will cause it to do weird things. For example; A little forward cyclic while on the ground the computers will slowly drive the rotors forward until the back wheels come off the ground and the squat switch opens. Then the forward tilt will be so fast that you will not be able to react to it and the aircraft will flip on its back. A little too much aft on the ground; if the breaks are set it will raise the nose until the aft rotor strikes the ground. If the breaks are not set it will start rolling backward.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The problem with crouching or ducking when approaching a helicopter is that people who are looking down at their sneakers are not looking where they’re going.  To paraphrase Martha Stewart, this is "a bad thing." People talk about how a rotor can dip low.  And yes, approaching (or departing) any helicopter when the blades are not up to at least idle rpm is dangerous. Do not walk under undriven rotor blades!  Simple as that. Once the ship is idling, there is *usually* no danger to a man in a normal walk.  Although having said that, there are some small helicopters on low skid gear where the rotor is not all that high off the ground to begin with, in which the "idle" speed can be quite low (e.g. Enstrom).  Of the larger machines, only the Sikorsky S-76 poses a real danger (because of the low landing gear and forward tilt of the mast), but even it can be mitigated if the pilots simply pull back far enough on the cyclic to keep the tip path plane out of harm’s way. In all my years (20+) of flying helicopters, I’ve never had a gust of wind cause my idling rotor to do anything hinky.  Never.  Not saying it’ll won’t or couldn’t happen – just hasn’t.  (Start-up and shut-down?  Different story.) When I fly Bells, I keep the cyclic a little bit aft to hold the tip path plane up.  But I’ve seen pilots who are not very diligent about this.  Cyclics tend to fall forward if left unattended. A lot depends on which ship we’re talking about…  But if you’re a passenger who’s approaching a LongRanger on high-skids.  Can you depend on the pilot to make sure he keeps the tip path plane up and out of your way?  Sadly, no. You better crouch a little just to be on the safe side.  Even I do, most of the time.  But please, "crouching" does not mean staring at the ground in a low-crawl.  Keep your head up so you can see, okay?  No baseball caps, and no fishing poles held over your shoulder. And no walking around the back of the ship.  That kind of thing makes our hearts stop…and could easily make yours stop too – permanently. "If you don’t know where you’re going,  Any road will take you there."                                          George Harrison

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The rotor of a Huey is some 11 feet up. It can dip to six, and in a gust, lower than that. 1000 hours combat assault time and I still duck. You flew Hueys? Lemme guess…. WO-1 out of Ft. Rucker, then Air Cav in country. Who with? I remember at Fritsche Field being out on the main ramp sometimes when the Cav detachment would come in. I just loved that unique Huey thump-thump-thump in chorus. Everyone transitioned to hover at about 3 feet, then taxied single-file to the Cav ramp. Always reminded me of circus elephants walking head-to-tail behind each other. David Ah, yes, the days of the Air Cav!!!!  I’m sure this dude was a WO-1 out of Rucker….hell, who wasn’t in them thar days?  You spent your time there before you went out and killed gooks in gun ships or flew dust off in slicks. (any of you younger punks know what a slick is/was?  How about a loach? LOH?)

The kids may not but I remember. At Ft. Ord we’d go over to the Navy Post Graduate School (NPG) O Club since the Navy had the good sense in WWII to buy (appropriate?) the Del Monte Hotel and adjoining grounds. In the bar different units would paint their logos on the 3′x3′ ceiling tiles. The one right above my barstool was an OH-6 Loach hovering under a spreading oak. The inscription read, "Army Loaches do it under the trees!" And Pasture Dave…the UH-1 Huey didn’t go thump-thump-thump….it went WOP-WOP-WOP when you dropped collective pitch for the descent.

Spelling how a sound sounds is not the easiest thing in the world to do, but thump-thump-thump sounds a lot more like a Huey than does Wop-Wop-Wop. I’ll split the difference with you… we’ll call it Whump-Whump-Whump. David

Response:

and I was born in 71, am i yung enough fer ya ? all the best Sean "still dumpin shell casings out of the ruck and picken HE shrapnel outta the kevlar" Trost

At-a-boy Sean!  Nice commentary.  I should have mentioned that I also love the smell of High Explosive (HE) in the mornings. Ahhhh for them good ole days when we blew up the jungle just for kicks. BWB

Response:

A lot depends on which ship we’re talking about…  But if you’re a passenger who’s approaching a LongRanger on high-skids.  Can you depend on the pilot to make sure he keeps the tip path plane up and out of your way?  Sadly, no.  You better crouch a little just to be on the safe side.  Even I do, most of the time.  But please, "crouching" does not mean staring at the ground in a low-crawl.  Keep your head up so you can see, okay?  No baseball caps, and no fishing poles held over your shoulder.

Nice post Bob.  I tell all my pax to maintain eye contact with me from the front as they approach the helicopter and stop outside of the rotor tip radius until I wave them in.  Then walk toward me always maintaining eye contact until you are right up to the cockpit.  Same thing upon disembarking.  You can’t maintain eye contact, but simply walk STRAIGHT FORWARD from the cockpit until you clear the rotors and crouch over a bit while you do. And no walking around the back of the ship.  That kind of thing makes our hearts stop…and could easily make yours stop too – permanently.

I landed in a buddies front yard last weekend in an R-44.  He’d told me to come by and do that anytime I was out screwing around. But, I never thought about his damn dogs.  As soon as I landed he came out and so did his two dogs.  Well, as dogs do, they went nuts watching this goofy machine sitting in their poop zone and ran at me.  They also ran at my tail for some reason.  I think they were drawn to the tailrotor spinning and thought it was a toy to play with.  Luckily I was still spooled up to 104% when they did.  I pulled pitch and lifted off.  From a 5 foot hover I motioned with the back of my hand at the dogs and he got the message, then put them in the house so I could land. I worry more about the tail rotor than anything since I can’t see it. Even landing here at the house there are kids on dirt bikes that drive up all the time while I’m winding down.  I’ve decided to put a fence around the pad just to protect them.  And, as you said above.  If you want to stop the heart of any helicopter pilot, just walk around toward the back of the ship.  I got a belt of lightening through my spine just reading your sentence and thinking about it. BWB – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"If you don’t know where you’re going, Any road will take you there."                                         George Harrison

Response:

Here’s a shot just north of An Loc, north of Siagon in 1971 flying the hwy just inside the Cambodian Border. I was working for the company in them thar days, flying up to the border (but not crossing) looking for NVA supplies coming from the north down the Ho Chi Minh trail, through Cambodia then back into South Viet Nam.  We were flying real high here….up in the nose-bleed section.  Actually this was a stupid move to be this high.  We were sitting ducks to any sporting young gook who was trying to make his mark and bring down a "Big Bird."  When we flew this high we always placed our service pistola under our genitalia to stop any spurious bulletos from removing our reproductive organals in one surgical swipe of a 25 grain piece of lead moving at 2000 fps vertically and through your seat. BWB

Response:

Just like many here have stated. The rotorhead my be way up there but the tip-path-plan can get REALLY low. I fly the CH-47D Chinook. The rotorhead is up there some 25 feet but the tip-path-plan of the front rotor can easily dip to 4 feet or less. The AH-64 and AH-1 is way up there to but it is not uncommon in a radical control movement to take out the gunner in the front seat. When you are around a helicopter with all its moving pieces you should do two thing. Err on the safe side ALWAYS. Second just as important as the first, FOLLOW DIRECTIONS. If it is a helicopter with crewchiefs make sure they see you and you watch them ALWAYS. If it just a pilot, make absolutely sure he sees you before you come under the rotors.

Response:

yea… that’s who we need to get over hear from rec.aviation.rotorcraft. There was a good thread awhile back on this one and an "OSHA"/collegiate based attorney put up an entertaining battle over theoretical law and 2nd grade common sense.  That was a fun one!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Chris Woodhouse wrote … I have a question for you.  Why does everyone on tv bend over when they walk up to a helicopter with the rotors spinning?  I mean the rotors are way over their head so why duck? May not need to duck, but the rotors aren’t all that much higher. Back in September a Latin American pop star exited a copter & waved to his waiting fans — promptly losing several fingers to the rotors. Google for details.

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You flew Hueys? Lemme guess…. WO-1 out of Ft. Rucker, then Air Cav in country. Who with? I remember at Fritsche Field being out on the main ramp sometimes when the Cav detachment would come in. I just loved that unique Huey thump-thump-thump in chorus. Everyone transitioned to hover at about 3 feet, then taxied single-file to the Cav ramp. Always reminded me of circus elephants walking head-to-tail behind each other. David

Ah, yes, the days of the Air Cav!!!!  I’m sure this dude was a WO-1 out of Rucker….hell, who wasn’t in them thar days?  You spent your time there before you went out and killed gooks in gun ships or flew dust off in slicks. (any of you younger punks know what a slick is/was?  How about a loach? LOH?) And Pasture Dave…the UH-1 Huey didn’t go thump-thump-thump….it went WOP-WOP-WOP when you dropped collective pitch for the descent. I loved the Hueys.  Hell, I’ve got about 2000 hours logged just sleeping on the cot in the back. You speak about the transition from ETL (effective translational lift) into a hover.  What a roar that was in a UH-1.  The whole thing shook like the world was coming to an end.  Those days were a ball…taking enemy fire as you let down between the trees (chopping branches off) as your gunner was dusting the gooks with 50 cal rounds….the smell of napalm and death everywhere…it was exhilerating.   I was in Fire-3 (a HU-1H) one day when we took three bullets through the tail cone and the drive shaft to the tail rotor was severed.  It was a ball, we flew back to base at Pleiku at treetop level and about 120 knots then did a run on landing at about 60 knots into a rice paddy in water about 6 feet deep.  We didn’t give a shit.  We were half drunk and it was government equipment anyway…trashed the fucking  Huey.  That night back in my hooch we drank distilled pineapple juice that was about 100 proof and told lies about the day. I remember some guys had smuggled some whores in from the Qui Nhon who were real pretty and hid them in my buddies hooch next to mine.  They were giggling and laughing and drunk too.  We had some God damn fucking Major in there for inspections, but the other guys got him drunk early on and dished one of the whores to him to make him look the other way. One of my buddies (Rich Gilmore, call sign Gillous) took a few hard hits to his main rotor system in a loach and had to dump it in a hot zone.  I guess the gooks were everywhere.  Gillous called in the air boss for a naplm run and a couple F-4 Phantoms were handy.  They napalmed the whole area for about 15 minutes until he could use that 100 mph aluminum tape on his fucked up rotorblade to put the skin back together enough to fly it.  He spooled it up, pulled pitch and blew out of the hot LZ shaking like a God damn volcano or an earthquake at full roar.  The tape held half way back to Kontum but over Dak To she let go and he had to land agian for more field repair with 100 mph tape.  He took on fire the instant they got below treeline from some unfriendlies… it got worse when they landed, so…what do you do? What any red blooded WO-1 would do… more air support by the Air Farce to burn down the jungle and any unsuspecting shooting gook. Once the gooks were creamated and he’d rotor-braked the thing to a stop he jumped on a half cut down tree to grab the blade with the torn skin…three wraps of tape around it and he was back in spooling up the turbine before Charlie woke up and started firing again. Like the Air Cav that he was, he was off once again, roaring south to our base just north of Kontum…and he made it because he was drinking "hot" pinapple juice with us that night and telling us how brave he was. And to the guy who asked the quesiton about ducking as you walk up to the cockpit.  Jesus, you better duck.  A gust or a pilot simply scratching his balls might hit the cyclic (Stick to you fixed wing assholes), deflect it full left, right or forward and the rotor tips might even hit the damn ground.  The smart guy not only ducks when getting close to one of these contraptions, he crawls on the ground to mount one…especially in combat because the pilot might be drunk as hell to begin with. BWB

Response:

Chris Woodhouse wrote … I have a question for you.  Why does everyone on tv bend over when they walk up to a helicopter with the rotors spinning?  I mean the rotors are way over their head so why duck?

May not need to duck, but the rotors aren’t all that much higher. Back in September a Latin American pop star exited a copter & waved to his waiting fans — promptly losing several fingers to the rotors. Google for details.

Response:

The rotor of a Huey is some 11 feet up. It can dip to six, and in a gust, lower than that. 1000 hours combat assault time and I still duck.

You flew Hueys? Lemme guess…. WO-1 out of Ft. Rucker, then Air Cav in country. Who with? I remember at Fritsche Field being out on the main ramp sometimes when the Cav detachment would come in. I just loved that unique Huey thump-thump-thump in chorus. Everyone transitioned to hover at about 3 feet, then taxied single-file to the Cav ramp. Always reminded me of circus elephants walking head-to-tail behind each other. David

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 [Image]

I have a question for you.  Why does everyone on tv bend over when they walk up to a helicopter with the rotors spinning?  I mean the rotors are way over their head so why duck? — Chris

Response:

I have a question for you.  Why does everyone on tv bend over when they walk up to a helicopter with the rotors spinning?  I mean the rotors are way over their head so why duck?

Speak for yourself, Shorty!  :-) Seriously, I think it is both a natural reaction, and a wise one.  When I was in the Army, we constantly lost soldiers to main rotor strikes.  Not as common as problems with people running into the rear rotor, but at least once a year.  If the ground is uneven, or something strange causes the blades to flex, they can take the head off of a six foot individual.  A Blackhawk is a big bird, but even though the mast is way up over head, that doesn’t mean the tips are not closer than 6 feet to the ground where you are walking. Eric

Response:

The rotor of a Huey is some 11 feet up. It can dip to six, and in a gust, lower than that. 1000 hours combat assault time and I still duck. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a question for you.  Why does everyone on tv bend over when they walk up to a helicopter with the rotors spinning?  I mean the rotors are way over their head so why duck? Speak for yourself, Shorty!  :-) Seriously, I think it is both a natural reaction, and a wise one.  When I was in the Army, we constantly lost soldiers to main rotor strikes.  Not as common as problems with people running into the rear rotor, but at least once a year.  If the ground is uneven, or something strange causes the blades to flex, they can take the head off of a six foot individual.  A Blackhawk is a big bird, but even though the mast is way up over head, that doesn’t mean the tips are not closer than 6 feet to the ground where you are walking. Eric

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is a Public Service Announcement for Penns Clave 2002 attendees: *** Ok, raise your hand if you want to see this video! *** Dave — Obigatory Disclaimer:  I have no financial interest in this offering.

Regards,Flypaint – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

I’m in for that! john What’s the math?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is a Public Service Announcement for Penns Clave 2002 attendees: *** Ok, raise your hand if you want to see this video! *** Dave — Obigatory Disclaimer:  I have no financial interest in this offering. Regards,Flypaint

Response:

Sounds interesting.  I’d watch.  Count me in. Joel Axelrad **DFD**

Response:

This is a Public Service Announcement for Penns Clave 2002 attendees: I am posing this question to all of you who will be attending the Penns Clave in May 2002…. How many of you are willing to pay around $10 (this is an upper guesstimate, it will be less) to view some awesome underwater video of trout behavior?

Well, that was an interesting post whether I go or not.  But it the $10 just to see the video, or to *buy* the video?

Response:

Off hand Jef, I’d say we are talking about a man bringing down his presentation. Not really a money making proposition for him, but something that must be done by the plebes. I reckon we could throw in a good feed, with all of the trailers he is sure to find luxurious accommodations, and such recreational activity as might suit the situation……

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is a Public Service Announcement for Penns Clave 2002 attendees: I am posing this question to all of you who will be attending the Penns Clave in May 2002…. How many of you are willing to pay around $10 (this is an upper guesstimate, it will be less) to view some awesome underwater video of trout behavior? Well, that was an interesting post whether I go or not.  But it the $10 just to see the video, or to *buy* the video?

Response:

i’ll be there making shadow animals on the big screen       Handyman           Mike

Response:

Mike writes: i’ll be there making shadow animals on the big screen      Handyman

and I’ll pay money to see that, as well!                          Tom

Response:

John notes:

why impose restrictions on this guy which we don’t ask of the rest of the crowd?                              Tom

Response:

I wish I could make it to the Clave to see it. Could you talk to this guy about selling copies for those interested in seeing it that can’t attend the clave? Tim Apple

Tim, I do not believe that OZ sells videos, he gives presentations using footage that he has filmed. Dave

Response:

Well, that was an interesting post whether I go or not.  But it the $10 just to see the video, or to *buy* the video?

Jeff, There is NO video for sale, I would have purchased both if available! The $10 per-person cost of attending this presentation is a "guess-timate" that I am using for this survey. The actual per-person cost will be determined by taking Ozzie’s invoice and dividing that by the number of attendees. you guys will enjoy this! Dave

Response:

I’d like to see that. vince norris

Response:

The $10 per-person cost of attending this presentation is a "guess-timate" that I am using for this survey. The actual per-person cost will be determined by taking Ozzie’s invoice and dividing that by the number of attendees.

Dave, I’m still planning on attending along with Jim Lafley.  We would be very interested in this if you can pull it off. –Stan

Response:

Well, sounds to me like you had better get a figure from what’s his name and start taking the fair share from those who claim they’ll be there. john you’ll need a new thread….

Response:

I’m in for that! john What’s the math?

John, awaiting an email response back… if no email by Jan 3rd 2002 I will call him. Dave

Response:

Dave, I’m still planning on attending along with Jim Lafley.  We would be very interested in this if you can pull it off. –Stan

Stan, the concept was received favorably by the gentleman that gives the presentation… awaiting response as to availability and cost.  I am hoping that he brings his underwater photography equipment.  Sure would be interesting to see what a Penns Creek Diving Club roffian looks like underwater.  :-) Dave

Response:

Well, sounds to me like you had better get a figure from what’s his name and start taking the fair share from those who claim they’ll be there. john you’ll need a new thread….

John, when this gets rolling I will be counting on you to give me a hand.  For whatever reasons lately, access to this NG has been unreliable through my ISP.  We will need to determine a specific date and time (your job), and; location (my job) for the presentation. Thank you in advance for your assistance.  :-) Dave

Response:

me, too. wayno

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …ditto…  of course, depends when and where the show is held?  they serve a nice yeungling draft and plentiful evening buffet at the sportsman’s club on lower penn’s creek – but i don’t know if they have a room for it… jeff This is a Public Service Announcement for Penns Clave 2002 attendees: I am posing this question to all of you who will be attending the Penns Clave in May 2002…. How many of you are willing to pay around $10 (this is an upper guesstimate, it will be less) to view some awesome underwater video of trout behavior? Last week after our Christmas dinner, about 30 of us Little Lehigh fly fisherman were fortunate to view 45 minutes of underwater video footage of trout behavior filmed by a local (NJ) fly fisherman/videographer? This guy’s (OZ) videos are great, this is the second video of his that I have seen and he tells me that he is working on his third video. Anyway, I think that many of you guys would enjoy it and that it would be cool to add an educational element to the clave, perhaps the night of the raffle.  OZ seems interested.  :-) A few years ago, I viewed a fishing video that included some underwater video footage where a camera was disquised as a trout and then placed in different sections of the stream to capture trout behavior.  It was very interesting, but OZ has this system where the optical component is mounted to the end of a boom that can be moved while he views what the lens sees on the remote LCD monitor. Here is OZ’s description of his video: "THE UNDERWATER WORLD OF TROUT Part II: FEEDING LIES All experienced anglers have witnessed a newly outfitted dude, standing in a spot where he ought to be fishing. Knowing where the fish are is critical to angling success — not just where they hide, but where they feed. This second voyage into The Underwater World of Trout answers the questions all anglers ask. Where are they? Why are they there? What are they eating? How do I recognize what is going on? If you’re like the rest of us, your bookshelves are full of experts espousing theories, all different and some invented just to sell books. In this study we go into the streams and examine the facts and get real answers. Some you expect, others you won’t believe until you see them yourself. To understand what a trout’s world is like requires a basic understanding of how water moves (hydrology) and how trout move about in the water (biomechanics). We all know some basic truths — or do we. Water always flows downstream — except when it doesn’t. Trout always face upstream — except when they don’t. Trout use the tail fin for propulsion — but how do they stop? Trout feed primarily in pools and use fast water to hide from predators — or do they? Trout always establish a pecking order and never tolerate other fish in their feeding lie — except when they do. You’ll be surprised how often some basic truths are violated. How trout rise offer clues to what they are eating. But have you ever had a chance to observe the difference between a trout taking an emerger, sipping a dun, tilting on a nymph or exploding after a skittering caddis? Thanks to a particularly co-operative rainbow trout from Pennsylvania all the different rise forms and takes are captured and made clear. These are not staged shots in aquariums but real trout in the streams that you and I fish. Footage is captured from the foothill creeks and wild trout streams in New Jersey and Pennsylvania, spring creeks from Carlisle to Long Island and a landlocked salmon river in Maine. These are the waters we ply, filmed by an angler who asks the questions we all ponder. You’ll walk away from this presentation knowing the answers to many questions, and with a whole set of new questions to ask." *** Ok, raise your hand if you want to see this video! *** Dave — Obigatory Disclaimer:  I have no financial interest in this offering.

Response:

And me.   Dave

Response:

…ditto…  of course, depends when and where the show is held?  they serve a nice yeungling draft and plentiful evening buffet at the sportsman’s club on lower penn’s creek – but i don’t know if they have a room for it… jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is a Public Service Announcement for Penns Clave 2002 attendees: I am posing this question to all of you who will be attending the Penns Clave in May 2002…. How many of you are willing to pay around $10 (this is an upper guesstimate, it will be less) to view some awesome underwater video of trout behavior? Last week after our Christmas dinner, about 30 of us Little Lehigh fly fisherman were fortunate to view 45 minutes of underwater video footage of trout behavior filmed by a local (NJ) fly fisherman/videographer? This guy’s (OZ) videos are great, this is the second video of his that I have seen and he tells me that he is working on his third video. Anyway, I think that many of you guys would enjoy it and that it would be cool to add an educational element to the clave, perhaps the night of the raffle.  OZ seems interested.  :-) A few years ago, I viewed a fishing video that included some underwater video footage where a camera was disquised as a trout and then placed in different sections of the stream to capture trout behavior.  It was very interesting, but OZ has this system where the optical component is mounted to the end of a boom that can be moved while he views what the lens sees on the remote LCD monitor. Here is OZ’s description of his video: "THE UNDERWATER WORLD OF TROUT Part II: FEEDING LIES All experienced anglers have witnessed a newly outfitted dude, standing in a spot where he ought to be fishing. Knowing where the fish are is critical to angling success — not just where they hide, but where they feed. This second voyage into The Underwater World of Trout answers the questions all anglers ask. Where are they? Why are they there? What are they eating? How do I recognize what is going on? If you’re like the rest of us, your bookshelves are full of experts espousing theories, all different and some invented just to sell books. In this study we go into the streams and examine the facts and get real answers. Some you expect, others you won’t believe until you see them yourself. To understand what a trout’s world is like requires a basic understanding of how water moves (hydrology) and how trout move about in the water (biomechanics). We all know some basic truths — or do we. Water always flows downstream — except when it doesn’t. Trout always face upstream — except when they don’t. Trout use the tail fin for propulsion — but how do they stop? Trout feed primarily in pools and use fast water to hide from predators — or do they? Trout always establish a pecking order and never tolerate other fish in their feeding lie — except when they do. You’ll be surprised how often some basic truths are violated. How trout rise offer clues to what they are eating. But have you ever had a chance to observe the difference between a trout taking an emerger, sipping a dun, tilting on a nymph or exploding after a skittering caddis? Thanks to a particularly co-operative rainbow trout from Pennsylvania all the different rise forms and takes are captured and made clear. These are not staged shots in aquariums but real trout in the streams that you and I fish. Footage is captured from the foothill creeks and wild trout streams in New Jersey and Pennsylvania, spring creeks from Carlisle to Long Island and a landlocked salmon river in Maine. These are the waters we ply, filmed by an angler who asks the questions we all ponder. You’ll walk away from this presentation knowing the answers to many questions, and with a whole set of new questions to ask." *** Ok, raise your hand if you want to see this video! *** Dave — Obigatory Disclaimer:  I have no financial interest in this offering.

Response:

This is a Public Service Announcement for Penns Clave 2002 attendees: I am posing this question to all of you who will be attending the Penns Clave in May 2002…. How many of you are willing to pay around $10 (this is an upper guesstimate, it will be less) to view some awesome underwater video of trout behavior? Last week after our Christmas dinner, about 30 of us Little Lehigh fly fisherman were fortunate to view 45 minutes of underwater video footage of trout behavior filmed by a local (NJ) fly fisherman/videographer? This guy’s (OZ) videos are great, this is the second video of his that I have seen and he tells me that he is working on his third video. Anyway, I think that many of you guys would enjoy it and that it would be cool to add an educational element to the clave, perhaps the night of the raffle.  OZ seems interested.  :-) A few years ago, I viewed a fishing video that included some underwater video footage where a camera was disquised as a trout and then placed in different sections of the stream to capture trout behavior.  It was very interesting, but OZ has this system where the optical component is mounted to the end of a boom that can be moved while he views what the lens sees on the remote LCD monitor. Here is OZ’s description of his video: "THE UNDERWATER WORLD OF TROUT Part II: FEEDING LIES All experienced anglers have witnessed a newly outfitted dude, standing in a spot where he ought to be fishing. Knowing where the fish are is critical to angling success — not just where they hide, but where they feed. This second voyage into The Underwater World of Trout answers the questions all anglers ask. Where are they? Why are they there? What are they eating? How do I recognize what is going on? If you’re like the rest of us, your bookshelves are full of experts espousing theories, all different and some invented just to sell books. In this study we go into the streams and examine the facts and get real answers. Some you expect, others you won’t believe until you see them yourself. To understand what a trout’s world is like requires a basic understanding of how water moves (hydrology) and how trout move about in the water (biomechanics). We all know some basic truths — or do we. Water always flows downstream — except when it doesn’t. Trout always face upstream — except when they don’t. Trout use the tail fin for propulsion — but how do they stop? Trout feed primarily in pools and use fast water to hide from predators — or do they? Trout always establish a pecking order and never tolerate other fish in their feeding lie — except when they do. You’ll be surprised how often some basic truths are violated. How trout rise offer clues to what they are eating. But have you ever had a chance to observe the difference between a trout taking an emerger, sipping a dun, tilting on a nymph or exploding after a skittering caddis? Thanks to a particularly co-operative rainbow trout from Pennsylvania all the different rise forms and takes are captured and made clear. These are not staged shots in aquariums but real trout in the streams that you and I fish. Footage is captured from the foothill creeks and wild trout streams in New Jersey and Pennsylvania, spring creeks from Carlisle to Long Island and a landlocked salmon river in Maine. These are the waters we ply, filmed by an angler who asks the questions we all ponder. You’ll walk away from this presentation knowing the answers to many questions, and with a whole set of new questions to ask." *** Ok, raise your hand if you want to see this video! *** Dave — Obigatory Disclaimer:  I have no financial interest in this offering.

Response:

count me in                        Tom L

Response:

count me in                       Tom L

and me Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

count me in                       Tom L and me Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

me too…. –walt, i’ll make popcorn <g

Response:

I wish I could make it to the Clave to see it. Could you talk to this guy about selling copies for those interested in seeing it that can’t attend the clave? Tim Apple

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is a Public Service Announcement for Penns Clave 2002 attendees: I am posing this question to all of you who will be attending the Penns Clave in May 2002…. How many of you are willing to pay around $10 (this is an upper guesstimate, it will be less) to view some awesome underwater video of trout behavior? Last week after our Christmas dinner, about 30 of us Little Lehigh fly fisherman were fortunate to view 45 minutes of underwater video footage of trout behavior filmed by a local (NJ) fly fisherman/videographer? This guy’s (OZ) videos are great, this is the second video of his that I have seen and he tells me that he is working on his third video. Anyway, I think that many of you guys would enjoy it and that it would be cool to add an educational element to the clave, perhaps the night of the raffle.  OZ seems interested.  :-) A few years ago, I viewed a fishing video that included some underwater video footage where a camera was disquised as a trout and then placed in different sections of the stream to capture trout behavior.  It was very interesting, but OZ has this system where the optical component is mounted to the end of a boom that can be moved while he views what the lens sees on the remote LCD monitor. Here is OZ’s description of his video: "THE UNDERWATER WORLD OF TROUT Part II: FEEDING LIES All experienced anglers have witnessed a newly outfitted dude, standing in a spot where he ought to be fishing. Knowing where the fish are is critical to angling success — not just where they hide, but where they feed. This second voyage into The Underwater World of Trout answers the questions all anglers ask. Where are they? Why are they there? What are they eating? How do I recognize what is going on? If you’re like the rest of us, your bookshelves are full of experts espousing theories, all different and some invented just to sell books. In this study we go into the streams and examine the facts and get real answers. Some you expect, others you won’t believe until you see them yourself. To understand what a trout’s world is like requires a basic understanding of how water moves (hydrology) and how trout move about in the water (biomechanics). We all know some basic truths — or do we. Water always flows downstream — except when it doesn’t. Trout always face upstream — except when they don’t. Trout use the tail fin for propulsion — but how do they stop? Trout feed primarily in pools and use fast water to hide from predators — or do they? Trout always establish a pecking order and never tolerate other fish in their feeding lie — except when they do. You’ll be surprised how often some basic truths are violated. How trout rise offer clues to what they are eating. But have you ever had a chance to observe the difference between a trout taking an emerger, sipping a dun, tilting on a nymph or exploding after a skittering caddis? Thanks to a particularly co-operative rainbow trout from Pennsylvania all the different rise forms and takes are captured and made clear. These are not staged shots in aquariums but real trout in the streams that you and I fish. Footage is captured from the foothill creeks and wild trout streams in New Jersey and Pennsylvania, spring creeks from Carlisle to Long Island and a landlocked salmon river in Maine. These are the waters we ply, filmed by an angler who asks the questions we all ponder. You’ll walk away from this presentation knowing the answers to many questions, and with a whole set of new questions to ask." *** Ok, raise your hand if you want to see this video! *** Dave — Obigatory Disclaimer:  I have no financial interest in this offering.

Response:

Question:

I am going to camp with a small family group in Colorado just after the 4th of July for about 4-5 days and am excited about trying my hand at fly fishing.  My brother and I have backpacked in the Wiminuche Wilderness area with our father years ago and caught a few and are ready to do it right (with flies).   Any suggestions on what type flies to bring along (in general) and any information on the Cojenos or Rio Grande Rivers would be much appreciated.  We are going to camp adjacent to the Cojenos River at a place called Mogote.  We kind of expect to ask the local area people for some advice but anything we might find out before we leave would be a big plus in the planning. Thanks in Advance. Post replies in this group or e-mail (remove "no_spam" to do so). Michael Faber

Response:

Try a bunch og attractors like Wulffs(Royal, Ausable), Humpys,H&Ls,Stimulators. Check with local fly shops for flys and stream conditions. Pick up copy of Flyfishing Sourthern Colorado by John Flick, excellent reference. Good luck.

Response:

Question:

Any recommendations for best time of year for Cuba and best camp for bonefish please Many thanks — Charles Reaves

Response:

Hi Charles, May is prime time in the Caribbean for this type of flats fishing. Take a look at this article: http://flyfishing.about.com/library/ffm/cuba/aacuba.htm There is only one operation in the cays south of Cuba and it is an Italian company, Jardinas. It is compared to the Florida Keys 50 years ago. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any recommendations for best time of year for Cuba and best camp for bonefish please Many thanks — Charles Reaves

Response:

I am looking for information –  guides, places, tips… for a fall trip to Cuba.  Any thoughts or help will be much appreciated. Capt. Joe Evans, Annapolis, Md.

Response:

I am always looking for items with "trout" on them.  Notecards, art, household items, novelties, etc.  If anyone knows any interesting websites, stores, etc., with "trout" gifts for sale, please email me. Thanx.

Response:

I used to fish Cuba until the U.S. Customs Department shut us down.  You had better check with them before trying a trip.   Dealing with Cuba and spending money in their country can be thought of as a traitorist act in their eyes.  Ace

Response:

try ORvis

Response:

James Prosek, Trout, an illustrated histroy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – try ORvis

Response:

Question:

I have some very old fishing and fly tying books that I need to have restored and appraised. If anyone knows of a business that does this kind of work I would greatly appreciate any information as to how to contact them.

Response:

I have some very old fishing and fly tying books that I need to have restored and appraised. If anyone knows of a business that does this kind of work I would greatly appreciate any information as to how to contact them.

Where are you located? Jim Benenson Los Alamos, NM "To save your rivers, save your mountains" Emperor Yu of China, circa 1600 BC

Response:

: I have some very old fishing and fly tying books that I need to have restored : and appraised. If anyone knows of a business that does this kind of work I : would greatly appreciate any information as to how to contact them. You might want to take some photographs of the books and describe them in detail and send the letter to Sotheby’s auction house, Fine Books and Manuscript Department in New York City. If they are something very valuable like Isaak Walton first editions or something, they will let you know the value and offer you a chance to sell them. In general, collectors don’t wan’t any ‘restoration’ work, so I would send the letter before you have it done. —

Response:

I have some very old fishing and fly tying books that I need to have restored and appraised. If anyone knows of a business that does this kind of work I

Appraisal is necessary first, so you can decide if (expensive) restoration is justified.  There are few specialized antiquarian fishing book dealers, but small ads in back of (US) Fly Fisherman or (British) Trout and Salmon may allow you to locate one near you.  For bookbinders, consult any big university library:  they both have theses and new journals bound into books and repair old books. Age is important but does not directly correlate with price, cf. also difficulty of conserving books on acidic wood-pulp paper (from late 19th century onwards.) — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

Response:

Question:

I operate a Cortland Pro Shop and Stock over 300 DIFFERENT Cortland Fly Lines. I also build custom rods and have lots of other neat stuff.  If I can help out anyone with anything let me know. George E. Hoskin/Hoskin Enterprises RFD 1, Box 841 West Bath, Maine 04530 1-207-443-6064 1-800-244-7744

Response:

Question:

The Rio Penasco between Cloudcroft and Artesia is a fine little trout stream.  Not very well known.  The Messilla Valley Flyfishers (a club from Las Cruces) manages the water and has negotiated access from owners.  Some really nice browns call it home. It should be within a couple of hours of El Paso.  We routinely fish it from Lubbock (4 hours in a fast car).  Give it a try it may be just what you want.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Xref: news.indirect.com rec.outdoors.fishing.fly:12250 Path: news.indirect.com!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.mega web.co m!newstf01.news.aol.com!uunet!prodigy.com!usenet Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly Organization: Prodigy Services Company  1-800-PRODIGY Lines: 7 Distribution: world NNTP-Posting-Host: inugap3.news.prodigy.com X-Newsreader: Version 1.2 I’m interested to know if anyone has ever fished on the GILA RIVER or in the GILA Wilderness.  I’m not a novice fisherman, but I’m living in El Paso Texas now and the flyfishing possibilities are limited.  I’v heard of the GILA RIVER but have never fished.  If anyone has any info on where to go fishing in New Mex besides the San Juan River, your help would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks for your help!

I’ve never fished the Gila, but their are many streams worthy of a trip north. Just a few of them are: The Jemez, The Guadalupe, and the San Antonio, all of them within an hour and a half of Albuquerque. Other streams further North are the Pecos, Rio Grande, and the Red River below the hatchery.

Response:

I’m interested to know if anyone has ever fished on the GILA RIVER or in the GILA Wilderness.  I’m not a novice fisherman, but I’m living in El Paso Texas now and the flyfishing possibilities are limited.  I’v heard of the GILA RIVER but have never fished.  If anyone has any info on where to go fishing in New Mex besides the San Juan River, your help would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks for your help!

Response:

Question:

I’m taking a trip in June.  I have no clue about the possibilities and need help.  Bone, cuda, what?  Please help!

Response:

Bermuda used to be famous for Yellowfin tuna and Wahoo (30-80Lbs). The charter boats would go 2 hours out to two reefs, anchor and then chum. Not that many people fly fished for those brutes. There was also Bermuda Jack that run about 20 Lbs. I don’t know how good the fishing is these days. You’ll have to ask the Government Tourist office in Bermuda. Alan Card and his brother used to be the best charter captains on the island, by far, (among the best in the world as far as I’m concerned). There is really no shore fishing because the shore drops off quickly, not like in the Bahamas. Also the Bermuda Chub that are inshore are not worth it (too difficult to catch). Just one last reminder, I think it is too late to make a charter boat reservation with a good captain for this year. You have to book one year in advance. The best time, if I can remember,  for tuna and wahoo is June and October. Remember, this is very expensive fishing, very classy island. But I have had some of my best fishing experiences there. Sort of like going Marlin fishing in Hawaii.  

Response:

503/639-6400.  He knows tons of details and can set you up or you could just pick his brain.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m taking a trip in June.  I have no clue about the possibilities and need help.  Bone, cuda, what?  Please help!

Response:

Call Jerry Swanson at Kaufmann’s Streamborn: 800/442-4359; 503/639-6400.  He knows lots of details and he can help set you up (he books lots ‘o trips) or you could just pick his brain.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m taking a trip in June.  I have no clue about the possibilities and need help.  Bone, cuda, what?  Please help!

Response:

Question:

  This past week on the Provo river the Baetis hatch has started. We’ve done quite well with some comparaduns.  Sometimes, though, the fish just seem to refuse them as well as any BWO or parachute.  The colors are an olive/grey mixture.  I was wondering what other patterns would be good in this situation.  We’ve landed some in the 18" range and would love to hear your suggestions and land some more.  The hatch goes from about 2:00 to 4:00 Curtis Fry

Response:

:   This past week on the Provo river the Baetis hatch has started. : We’ve done quite well with some comparaduns.  Sometimes, though, the : fish just seem to refuse them as well as any BWO or parachute.  The : colors are an olive/grey mixture.  I was wondering what other patterns : would be good in this situation.  We’ve landed some in the 18" range : and would love to hear your suggestions and land some more.  The hatch : goes from about 2:00 to 4:00 : Curtis Fry Try a baetis emerger pattern.  Sometimes if the trout aren’t taking duns, they will be grabbing the emerging nymphs.  There are many ties.  The one I like is a standard nymph pattern, only with a section of ballooned out white or grey poly-yarn imitating the emerging wing where the wingcase would be and sparse hackle extending from the left and right sides of the thorax.  

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Try an olive wet fly…my favorite comes from Syl Nemes as follows: #18 hook–thread:olive 6/0 flymaster                rib:yellow thread 6/0                hackle: starling, 3 turns and get a bit of the                            fluffy stuff at the base of the starling feather. These took a couple of dozen fish last autumn on upper Pine Creek, PA whilst my fishing buddies stayed with drys and got skunked. Worked less spectacularly on Valley Creek,PA two weeks back, but still got a few fish. Both were streams with wild browns and/or brookies, so it should have been a fair test.  I have used this pattern for a year and a half and it seems to work consistently. Fish it like a dry or with a downstream reach cast. Good Luck!                                                               T Littleton

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I’d like to apologize to Mark for flaming him.  That was not my intent!  My intent was to poke a little fun at elitist dry fly fishermen who look down on nymphing.  BTW my perferred method of fishing is with a dry fly or emerger, but only when it is effective, most of the time it’s just not as effective as nymphing.  IMO nymphing in many ways is more challenging than dry fly fishing.   For example dead drift is every bit as important to nymphing as with a dry fly presentation but tougher due to the differential current speeds from surface to stream bottom.

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Keywords: I got  e-mail in response to a previous post  and I thought I’d share it with the group. Mark Writes in response to my post below: For nymphs fished dead drift I always use long leaders, indicators and lead. when you say "indicators", are you referring to "bobbers"? i.e. Little things that float around and bounce up and down when a fish bites.                           Mark

Yes Mark that’s exactly what I mean and with no apologies.  Except for sight nymphing where you can see both the fish and the nymph at the same time, its almost impossible to see the take by watching your line (another little thing that floats around and bounces up and down when a fish bites).   Even with an indicator experienced fisheman miss at least 50% of the takes.  This experience comes from years of fishing to sighted fish with partners, where one partner spots for the other.   Frequently, when I’m up on a bank with a good angle, I’ve watched the trout we’re hunting inhale the nymph with no movement in the line leader or indicator.  A nymphing trout’s take is very subtle.  They suck the nymph and almost as quickly blow it back out again if you don’t set the hook. So Mark if you can’t stomache using a bobber or indicator, then just sit back and continue to be   self satisfied catching only the trout dumb enough to hook themselves (Usually the smaller ones who have to dart in from the side.), then by all means continue.   I’ll just have to take my satisfaction from success on the water, knowing deep down inside that somehow I’m just not the fisherman I could be if I could only loose my dependence on those bobbers! Just in case anyone out there thinks I’m serious.  I don’t know a single nymph fisherman, whose opinion I respect, who doesn’t use indicators ( that includes Andre Puyans, Mike Lawson, Lamb, etc.).  I vary the type of indicator to the conditions I’m fishing.   In fast water I use Marks bobbers to set the depth of float as much as anything.  In fast water the line drag usually sets the hook sets the hook before you’ll see the indicator move or pause.  In glass smooth gin clear water I use either a little silicon on the leader or a small tuft of yarn.  But what the heck it’s all bobber fishing right Mark.

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