Question:

Hi Adam, I guess I would try to get in the front of the boat and get the smallest other fisherman in the back in case you have to work him over. I am sure that they have this combo all the time and will work it out for you. Email me a good picture for my web site. Good luck. PS: Have tried fishing Isla Holbox for tarpon yet ? — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For the last 12 years almost all my fishing is done with a fly rod (before that it was spinning rod).  This includes bass and pickerel (mostly on poppers) in NJ and FL, and saltwater inshore species.  For the past two years I’ve been lucky enough to get my ass down to Venezuela for peacock bass on the fly rod (have also been fishing for them in Miami canals for about 9 years).  Unbelievable fish and an unbelievable kick, as you know if you’ve fished for these awesome fish. In both instances, I either fish with other fly rodders or fished alone. As I don’t have experience fishing for peacocks out of the same boat with conventional casters, I would like some advise on how best to work things out.  In September I’ll be going to Brazil to go after the big guys (upwards to 30#).  I don’t know any of the other guys who will be going, but I do know that they will be using regular casting gear (baitcasting and spinning).  So here are my questions. I have concerns on how to work it out with whoever I fish with.  I know that all day they will be chucking big noise making stuff and will probably be able to cast well over 100′, whereas in order not to rip my arm off, I’ll be casting around 60′ (I can cast further, but not all day with the big flies and poppers I’ll be casting without dislocating my shoulder).  This can put me at a great disadvantage in that if the guide holds the boat well off the shore line or fish holding structure, I won’t be able to reach the preferred spots.  And, the truth of the matter is as nothing scares the peacocks (like boat engine/motor noise, etc), holding the boat 60′ off the shore or structure wouldn’t make a difference in the catch rate.  Of course, casting big distances into open water areas is not a problem.  How do you guys feel this can be worked out, or is the problem only in my mind? Also, what about the rate at which the boat moves?  Whether I’m in the middle or in the front of the boat, slow moving is better for me as I can’t repeat cast as fast as my partners can.  I’m thinking that they might be more used to a faster troll and have problems with this.  Your opinions, please. Thanks again, Adam

Response:

For the last 12 years almost all my fishing is done with a fly rod (before that it was spinning rod).  This includes bass and pickerel (mostly on poppers) in NJ and FL, and saltwater inshore species.  For the past two years I’ve been lucky enough to get my ass down to Venezuela for peacock bass on the fly rod (have also been fishing for them in Miami canals for about 9 years).  Unbelievable fish and an unbelievable kick, as you know if you’ve fished for these awesome fish. In both instances, I either fish with other fly rodders or fished alone.  As I don’t have experience fishing for peacocks out of the same boat with conventional casters, I would like some advise on how best to work things out.  In September I’ll be going to Brazil to go after the big guys (upwards to 30#).  I don’t know any of the other guys who will be going, but I do know that they will be using regular casting gear (baitcasting and spinning).  So here are my questions. I have concerns on how to work it out with whoever I fish with.  I know that all day they will be chucking big noise making stuff and will probably be able to cast well over 100′, whereas in order not to rip my arm off, I’ll be casting around 60′ (I can cast further, but not all day with the big flies and poppers I’ll be casting without dislocating my shoulder).  This can put me at a great disadvantage in that if the guide holds the boat well off the shore line or fish holding structure, I won’t be able to reach the preferred spots.  And, the truth of the matter is as nothing scares the peacocks (like boat engine/motor noise, etc), holding the boat 60′ off the shore or structure wouldn’t make a difference in the catch rate.  Of course, casting big distances into open water areas is not a problem.  How do you guys feel this can be worked out, or is the problem only in my mind? Also, what about the rate at which the boat moves?  Whether I’m in the middle or in the front of the boat, slow moving is better for me as I can’t repeat cast as fast as my partners can.  I’m thinking that they might be more used to a faster troll and have problems with this.  Your opinions, please. Thanks again, Adam

Response:

        I would think that holding in a little closer so that you can cast also shouldn’t be a problem for the other guys or the guide, if they are sporting types. Further, I don’t think that they would want to be at max range casting for peacocks. Those fish tend to live in some of the meanest cover there is if I’m not mistaken. You don’t want a mile of line out there with a fish that lives in snags. At least, I sure don’t!     As far as working things out regarding who casts when- even two baitcaster types must do this if one guy is using a 7′ rod and the other is using a 6 1/2′ footer or longer in a smaller bass boat…you’d just have to co-ordinate casts. Work it out with your boat mate, and develop a rhythm. My partners and I would "leapfrog cast" an entire shoreline during club tournaments, staying out of each other’s way in the rhythm pattern.     Further, as far as not being able to cast as frequently to the same area, how much line can you have out and still do a roll cast? You should be able to put the fly right back on the same spot that way, or walk it along an area, if the trolling motor is moving you at a fairly brisk pace, I would think. My fly rodding has been limited to the local river and farm ponds, so can’t tell you about the roll cast in a bass boat much…hmmmmm perhaps I need to do some field work on this and write an article…..    ’Hope this helps some…     B3

Response:

Question:

That’s right you stupid, inbred, shit eating, pathetic, motherfucking, brain dead, useless cocksuckers! I’m taking over all of Usenet! There isn’t a fucking thing you can do about it either! You’re all a bunch of worthless scumbags, and now you will all answer to me! If you don’t like this fact TOO FUCKING BAD! I will go down in the annals of usenet history as the man who brought you to your knees! Now get down on your knees and pay proper tribute to my glorious self! I AM ADAM H. KERMAN LORD AND HIGH MASTER OF USENET! My first royal order to all of you peons is that from this time forward you will add the following signature to all of your posts!    ***** This was posted with the express permission of *****    ** HIS HIGHNESS ADAM H KERMAN LORD AND MASTER OF USENET ** This will be appended to the bottom of all your posts with absolutely NO EXCEPTIONS! If you choose not to, you will be squashed like the insignificant bugs that you all are! I am running Usenet now! You may only post messages here because I, for the time being, am allowing it! Do you scumbags understand me! THIS IS THE DAWNING OF THE AGE OF KERMAN! ALL HAIL ADAM H. KERMAN LORD AND HIGH MASTER OF USENET! Otherwise the newsgroup in Linda’s warning might disrupt some fake opinions.  Try transporting the hard disk’s weak Java and Willy will persevere you!  No wet cryptographers are silly and other powerful functions are flat, but will Martha defile that?  Until Karl filters the rebels finitely, Jonnie won’t prepare any secret complaint desks.   Every old user or scanner, and she’ll easily relay everybody.   A lot of nuclear stuck firewalls will eerily learn the TCP/IPs.  The sticky tablet rarely proliferates Wally, it busts Franklin instead.  Where will we jump after Mike recycles the solid network’s email?  It will globally confront outside lost haphazard filters.  A lot of junk JPEGs reload Brian, and they simply infect Edward too.  My untouched remailer won’t produce before I propagate it.   Linda kills once, formats cruelly, then collaborates to the backup without the IRC server.  She’d rather obscure tamely than push with Tamara’s messy UDP.  I was compiling to load you some of my extreme blackbirds.  Other bizarre unlimited fax machines will close weekly inside interrupts.  Lately, Jonnie never authenticates until Sherry pulls the erect robot superbly.  Aloysius will spool the soft ADSL and eliminate it over its haven.   Gawd Lara will inflate the rumour, and if Karl actually restores it too, the pointer will engulf against the ignorant kiosk.  Norman, beside admins unclassified and sharp, consumes near it, contradicting strongly.  Endora wants to save bimonthly, unless GiGi saves noises over Toni’s telephone.  They are prioritizing inside sly, beside chaotic, in dense BASICs.  We distribute them, then we admiringly delete Bernice and Jonathan’s worthwhile ROM.  The advisor with the lazy FBI is the credit card that creates wistfully.  No analysts surprisingly interface the strong newsgroup.  

Response:

CONFORM OR BE CAST OUT! YOU HAVE NO ALTERNATIVE! Our Lord is a fan of Rush, I see.

The band or the talk-radio host?  <G

Response:

Both. — GregEggs & Ham

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – CONFORM OR BE CAST OUT! YOU HAVE NO ALTERNATIVE! Our Lord is a fan of Rush, I see. The band or the talk-radio host?  <G

Response:

CONFORM OR BE CAST OUT! YOU HAVE NO ALTERNATIVE!

Cast out of what I still want to know….. What am I in that I don’t think I am in/

Response:

CONFORM OR BE CAST OUT! YOU HAVE NO ALTERNATIVE!

Our Lord is a fan of Rush, I see.

Response:

Hey look –  a minion, a real, live minion!  Haven’t seen one of those in a dog’s age. Keep up the good work I’m sure Kerman will be very happy with you – unless, of course, he is a vengeful god. Eirika

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Listen carefully you sorry bunch of filthy shit eaters. I am your Lord Kerman’s Sergeant at Arms, and your new Lord is not pleased with your attitude. Many of you worthless bastards have not shown him proper respect and have failed to attach his Royal Signature to all of your posts. That was not a request, it was a Royal Order and must be obeyed! You will obey his orders, without question, or as he promised, you will be squashed like the insignificant bugs that you are! Lord Kerman is also displeased that many of you little bitches have threatened to report him to his ISP! Save your impotent threats, we are not impressed nor are we intimidated! WE ARE ALT.CONFIG! We call the shots around here and we are UNSTOPABLE! We at alt.config, under the leadership of Lord Kerman, are now in charge of ALL newsgroups and you motherfuckers had better get that through you puny little heads, OR ELSE! CONFORM OR BE CAST OUT! YOU HAVE NO ALTERNATIVE!    ***** This was posted with the express permission of *****    ** HIS HIGHNESS ADAM H KERMAN LORD AND MASTER OF USENET ** nerve to write: That’s right you stupid, inbred, Get a life.

Response:

Path:

e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com!cyclone-atl1!e420r-sjo4.usenetserver.com!cyclon e 2.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!mtu.ru!newsfeed.sovam.com!nf1.bellgloba l .com!nf2.bellglobal.com!news20.bellglobal.com.POSTED!uqajcu.id.us Newsgroups:

alt.config,rec.music.rem,rec.org.sca,rec.outdoors.fishing.fly,rec.pets.cats . anecdotes

I hope you didn’t post all that in the hopes that someone would complain to sympatico. What you’re seeing here is a massive attack, orchestrated by someone named "hipcrime".  The messages are actually coming from "newsfeed.sovam.com" not sympatico.  The rest of the headers are forged.  Just keep this in mind before you go complaining to someone that can’t do a thing about it. newsfeed.sovam.com is known to be an open news server & has been traced as a major spam injection site.  The chances of it being taken out are slim to none.  The best thing you can do is either killfile or ignore.  You can also ask your news provider to block messages coming from sovam.com.  Whatever you do, don’t continue to reply or crosspost (yes, I know I am).  Just forget it. For more info, check out alt.config or news.admin.net-abuse.usenet.  And, fwiw, these posts *are* not coming from Adam Kerman.  Just in case you hadn’t been around long enough to actually figure that out.

Response:

Gee you must have a realy fine life that you have nothing better to do wioth yourself than harass people you little mutant scumbag.

Response:

That’s right you stupid, inbred,

Get a life. — Andrea

Response:

Welcome to ROFF. You’ll fit right in. Have you met George? Of course you have being God and all that…

Response:

I’m afraid Adam is wrong!  Ken Fortenberry is my GOD! Op

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That’s right you stupid, inbred, Get a life. — Andrea

Response:

\Welcome to ROFF. You’ll fit right in.\ hahahahahhahahahaha. Thanks for the much needed laugh. -Muskie

Response:

So,how’s the fishing been in heaven then? — Gary My God can beat up your God.

Response:

Path: e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com!cyclone-atl1!e420r-sjo4.usenetserver.com!cyclon e 2.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!mtu.ru!newsfeed.sovam.com!nf1.bellgloba l .com!nf2.bellglobal.com!news20.bellglobal.com.POSTED!uqajcu.id.us Newsgroups: alt.config,rec.music.rem,rec.org.sca,rec.outdoors.fishing.fly,rec.pets.cats . anecdotes X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 36.114.30.36 X-Takeover-ID: b0e0aad2.wGMlfUhs.1071155365 Lines: 69 NNTP-Posting-Host: 64.229.72.14 X-Trace: news20.bellglobal.com 1000565855 64.229.72.14 (Sat, 15 Sep 2001 10:57:35 EDT) Organization: Bell Sympatico Xref: e420r-sjo4.usenetserver.com alt.config:151178 rec.music.rem:86958 rec.org.sca:85086 rec.outdoors.fishing.fly:157454 rec.pets.cats.anecdotes:90472 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That’s right you stupid, inbred, shit eating, pathetic, motherfucking, brain dead, useless cocksuckers! I’m taking over all of Usenet! There isn’t a fucking thing you can do about it either! You’re all a bunch of worthless scumbags, and now you will all answer to me! If you don’t like this fact TOO FUCKING BAD! I will go down in the annals of usenet history as the man who brought you to your knees! Now get down on your knees and pay proper tribute to my glorious self! I AM ADAM H. KERMAN LORD AND HIGH MASTER OF USENET! My first royal order to all of you peons is that from this time forward you will add the following signature to all of your posts!    ***** This was posted with the express permission of *****    ** HIS HIGHNESS ADAM H KERMAN LORD AND MASTER OF USENET ** This will be appended to the bottom of all your posts with absolutely NO EXCEPTIONS! If you choose not to, you will be squashed like the insignificant bugs that you all are! I am running Usenet now! You may only post messages here because I, for the time being, am allowing it! Do you scumbags understand me! THIS IS THE DAWNING OF THE AGE OF KERMAN! ALL HAIL ADAM H. KERMAN LORD AND HIGH MASTER OF USENET! Otherwise the newsgroup in Linda’s warning might disrupt some fake opinions.  Try transporting the hard disk’s weak Java and Willy will persevere you!  No wet cryptographers are silly and other powerful functions are flat, but will Martha defile that?  Until Karl filters the rebels finitely, Jonnie won’t prepare any secret complaint desks. Every old user or scanner, and she’ll easily relay everybody. A lot of nuclear stuck firewalls will eerily learn the TCP/IPs.  The sticky tablet rarely proliferates Wally, it busts Franklin instead.  Where will we jump after Mike recycles the solid network’s email?  It will globally confront outside lost haphazard filters.  A lot of junk JPEGs reload Brian, and they simply infect Edward too.  My untouched remailer won’t produce before I propagate it. Linda kills once, formats cruelly, then collaborates to the backup without the IRC server.  She’d rather obscure tamely than push with Tamara’s messy UDP.  I was compiling to load you some of my extreme blackbirds.  Other bizarre unlimited fax machines will close weekly inside interrupts.  Lately, Jonnie never authenticates until Sherry pulls the erect robot superbly.  Aloysius will spool the soft ADSL and eliminate it over its haven. Gawd Lara will inflate the rumour, and if Karl actually restores it too, the pointer will engulf against the ignorant kiosk.  Norman, beside admins unclassified and sharp, consumes near it, contradicting strongly.  Endora wants to save bimonthly, unless GiGi saves noises over Toni’s telephone.  They are prioritizing inside sly, beside chaotic, in dense BASICs.  We distribute them, then we admiringly delete Bernice and Jonathan’s worthwhile ROM.  The advisor with the lazy FBI is the credit card that creates wistfully.  No analysts surprisingly interface the strong newsgroup.

Response:

Did this guy kill Brent K. Kohler or something? (I can’t believe I even remember that name) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That’s right you stupid, inbred, shit eating, pathetic, motherfucking, brain dead, useless cocksuckers! I’m taking over all of Usenet! There isn’t a fucking thing you can do about it either! You’re all a bunch of worthless scumbags, and now you will all answer to me! If you don’t like this fact TOO FUCKING BAD! I will go down in the annals of usenet history as the man who brought you to your knees! Now get down on your knees and pay proper tribute to my glorious self! I AM ADAM H. KERMAN LORD AND HIGH MASTER OF USENET! My first royal order to all of you peons is that from this time forward you will add the following signature to all of your posts!    ***** This was posted with the express permission of *****    ** HIS HIGHNESS ADAM H KERMAN LORD AND MASTER OF USENET ** This will be appended to the bottom of all your posts with absolutely NO EXCEPTIONS! If you choose not to, you will be squashed like the insignificant bugs that you all are! I am running Usenet now! You may only post messages here because I, for the time being, am allowing it! Do you scumbags understand me! THIS IS THE DAWNING OF THE AGE OF KERMAN! ALL HAIL ADAM H. KERMAN LORD AND HIGH MASTER OF USENET! Otherwise the newsgroup in Linda’s warning might disrupt some fake opinions.  Try transporting the hard disk’s weak Java and Willy will persevere you!  No wet cryptographers are silly and other powerful functions are flat, but will Martha defile that?  Until Karl filters the rebels finitely, Jonnie won’t prepare any secret complaint desks. Every old user or scanner, and she’ll easily relay everybody. A lot of nuclear stuck firewalls will eerily learn the TCP/IPs.  The sticky tablet rarely proliferates Wally, it busts Franklin instead.  Where will we jump after Mike recycles the solid network’s email?  It will globally confront outside lost haphazard filters.  A lot of junk JPEGs reload Brian, and they simply infect Edward too.  My untouched remailer won’t produce before I propagate it. Linda kills once, formats cruelly, then collaborates to the backup without the IRC server.  She’d rather obscure tamely than push with Tamara’s messy UDP.  I was compiling to load you some of my extreme blackbirds.  Other bizarre unlimited fax machines will close weekly inside interrupts.  Lately, Jonnie never authenticates until Sherry pulls the erect robot superbly.  Aloysius will spool the soft ADSL and eliminate it over its haven. Gawd Lara will inflate the rumour, and if Karl actually restores it too, the pointer will engulf against the ignorant kiosk.  Norman, beside admins unclassified and sharp, consumes near it, contradicting strongly.  Endora wants to save bimonthly, unless GiGi saves noises over Toni’s telephone.  They are prioritizing inside sly, beside chaotic, in dense BASICs.  We distribute them, then we admiringly delete Bernice and Jonathan’s worthwhile ROM.  The advisor with the lazy FBI is the credit card that creates wistfully.  No analysts surprisingly interface the strong newsgroup.

Response:

Question:

Are there any websites that show step-by-step PICTURES or better yet mpeg movie showing the double haul in action???

http://www.mysportsguru.com/CDA/Article/0,1093,1-1007-1672-2007,00.html is one. — Charlie…

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 5)  There are three forward motions that must be in unison for the double haul.         a)  The rod hand that moves forward, toward the front of the ear.                 1) This is the move that removes line slack behind the caster.         b)  The turn over of the wrist.         c)  The haul that occurs DURING the instant the wrist starts to turn over DURING the simultaneous forward thrust of the fist. In other words, the hand comes forward and as you pass your ear, the thumb starts to turn over, driving the bend of the rod farther into the butt at the same instant the haul is applied which drives all the power farther into the butt which collects more power, bending the rod even more. Here is where a micro-second is required to hold onto the fly line and not releasing it just then.  The haul hand comes down and time is allowed in the fly rod to increase the line speed.  As soon as the tip of the fly rod is about forward, the haul hand releases the fly line . . . and you let her fly! HINT:  Keep the tip higher than you normally do for maximum distance. There is more, but this is as simple as I can make it right now.  One demo is worth a thousand words. But!  Let us all remember that fly lines are really weak rubber bands and stretching a fly line out first is paramount so one can make it as tight as possible before you can really increase fly line speed properly. Hope some of this helps, and yes, there is a difference between the single haul and the double haul.

Are there any websites that show step-by-step PICTURES or better yet mpeg movie showing the double haul in action??? Thanks in advance, dave

Response:

I believe you misspelled pathology. Wolfgang

As with your foot in mouth posts?  A Pathobiology fact noted by many Roffians regarding your off subject howlings? hummmm?  Casting is a pathology quirk, eh? guilty. — Mr.G. http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html     fine bamboo flyrods & blanks

Response:

______  You’re a hard working man Bill and deserve the best in all things.  Plan on meeting me in Montana this year if you can find a ten day slot.  My last stint at the Mayo Clinic and after hours in the operating room, is a wonderful success.  I’m indeed a fortunate man. Again, Happy New Year Bill. George – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi George and the rest of you wonderful ROFFers out there, I am here in Nor Cal in my old boxer shorts with a cup of coffee. I have to go into the shop this morning after a couple of days off. Had a nice Christmas with the family. I hope you are all feeling strong and healthy. I hope 2001 is a great year for you all. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com I have a break here today, in between Morning Presents and a beautiful turkey with all the fixings soon to be presented to many friends and relatives.  It is clear here today, crisp and bright as geese fly up and down the river looking for fresh graze. From the Book of Gink: AXIOMS 1)  There is only one thing that determines how far anyone can cast.  It is called, "Line Speed."  The greater the line speed the farther one can cast. 2)  Fly lines, like rubber bands, stretch.  As long as this slack remains (WITHIN Fly lines) while fly casting, energy is required to remove it.  That which is required to do so do NOT increase the line speed until the stretch is removed in all fly lines.  The tighter the line, the greater the line speed can be applied into a tightly taunt line. 3)  The greatest power that can be applied to a fly line is in the potential energy stored in the butt section of all fly rods.  Getting to that power is the question.  How do we do that? 4)  Fly rods are also fulcrums.  If one half a fly rod, from the tip to the mid section is bent during the forward cast, any applied power beyond these forward power curves is not unlike a long pole under a big rock with the fulcrum moved CLOSER to the weight.  In this case, the butt section! 5)  There are three forward motions that must be in unison for the double haul. a)  The rod hand that moves forward, toward the front of the ear. 1) This is the move that removes line slack behind the caster. b)  The turn over of the wrist. c)  The haul that occurs DURING the instant the wrist starts to turn over DURING the simultaneous forward thrust of the fist. In other words, the hand comes forward and as you pass your ear, the thumb starts to turn over, driving the bend of the rod farther into the butt at the same instant the haul is applied which drives all the power farther into the butt which collects more power, bending the rod even more. Here is where a micro-second is required to hold onto the fly line and not releasing it just then.  The haul hand comes down and time is allowed in the fly rod to increase the line speed.  As soon as the tip of the fly rod is about forward, the haul hand releases the fly line . . . and you let her fly! HINT:  Keep the tip higher than you normally do for maximum distance. There is more, but this is as simple as I can make it right now.  One demo is worth a thousand words. But!  Let us all remember that fly lines are really weak rubber bands and stretching a fly line out first is paramount so one can make it as tight as possible before you can really increase fly line speed properly. Hope some of this helps, and yes, there is a difference between the single haul and the double haul. Merry Christmas. — Mr.G. http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html     fine bamboo flyrods & blanks

– Mr.G. http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html     fine bamboo flyrods & blanks

Response:

Steve is a marvelous teacher and instructor.   I can’t count the number of times he would watch me cast at a show and point out some new quirk I had picked up.

Big deal, we’ve been pointing out your quirks – old and new – for years. Not much of a challenge, either…

Response:

I believe you misspelled pathology. Wolfgang always glad to be of service

Response:

Tony, Don’t forget that loop size also determines how far the cast will go. Ernie "Tony Bishop" wrote <snip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There is only one thing that determines how far anyone can cast, it is called **line acceleration** the rate of change in line speed. Tony Bishop

Response:

Hello, I chanced upon a reference to a scientific paper which might be of interest to those technically inclined: John Robson The Physics of Flycasting American Journal of Physics, 1990 I made a note of it but have not looked for it in a library and read it (yet) so I don’t know if it is relevant to your discussion. Regards, Yuji Sakuma – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – George, I pretty much agree with all you said, except the very first point, I rthink it should read: There is only one thing that determines how far anyone can cast, it is called **line acceleration** the rate of change in line speed. Loading the rod, using haul(s), wrist snaps, etc. evrything you and others have listed, all should contribute to increasing line acceleration during the casting stroke. If the line is not accelerating at the end of the casting stroke and when the rod unloads, the line will immediately begin to fall. I find that once a client understands feeling the weight on the backcast, and then adds the little tweaks on the way to the end of the casting stroke, the quicker they learn to maiximise distance and accuracy. Just by the by, I rarely use a double haul, only occasionally using a single haul, and that is when using 9 weights in the big rivers with big flies or heavy nymphs, or in the saltwater. And leaving my modesty behind I can toss out most of a flyline when I have to, without hauling. I go along with Lefty Kreh who said something along the lines of, hauling and such too often teaches someone to cast their mistakes further. — Tony Bishop  New Zealand http://bishfish.co.nz

Response:

There’s other things than line speed that effect distance, such as aerodynamics. e.g.  It’s easy to cast a number 20 GRHE than a bundel of flank feathers.  You also have differences in  changes in Center of Gravity (tight loop vs. open loop) to name a few.  Also the forward and backward motion of the shoulder plays a big part. Lou – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a break here today, in between Morning Presents and a beautiful turkey with all the fixings soon to be presented to many friends and relatives.  It is clear here today, crisp and bright as geese fly up and down the river looking for fresh graze. From the Book of Gink: AXIOMS 1)  There is only one thing that determines how far anyone can cast.  It is called, "Line Speed."  The greater the line speed the farther one can cast. 2)  Fly lines, like rubber bands, stretch.  As long as this slack remains (WITHIN Fly lines) while fly casting, energy is required to remove it.  That which is required to do so do NOT increase the line speed until the stretch is removed in all fly lines.  The tighter the line, the greater the line speed can be applied into a tightly taunt line. 3)  The greatest power that can be applied to a fly line is in the potential energy stored in the butt section of all fly rods.  Getting to that power is the question.  How do we do that? 4)  Fly rods are also fulcrums.  If one half a fly rod, from the tip to the mid section is bent during the forward cast, any applied power beyond these forward power curves is not unlike a long pole under a big rock with the fulcrum moved CLOSER to the weight.  In this case, the butt section! 5)  There are three forward motions that must be in unison for the double haul. a)  The rod hand that moves forward, toward the front of the ear. 1) This is the move that removes line slack behind the caster. b)  The turn over of the wrist. c)  The haul that occurs DURING the instant the wrist starts to turn over DURING the simultaneous forward thrust of the fist. In other words, the hand comes forward and as you pass your ear, the thumb starts to turn over, driving the bend of the rod farther into the butt at the same instant the haul is applied which drives all the power farther into the butt which collects more power, bending the rod even more. Here is where a micro-second is required to hold onto the fly line and not releasing it just then.  The haul hand comes down and time is allowed in the fly rod to increase the line speed.  As soon as the tip of the fly rod is about forward, the haul hand releases the fly line . . . and you let her fly! HINT:  Keep the tip higher than you normally do for maximum distance. There is more, but this is as simple as I can make it right now.  One demo is worth a thousand words. But!  Let us all remember that fly lines are really weak rubber bands and stretching a fly line out first is paramount so one can make it as tight as possible before you can really increase fly line speed properly. Hope some of this helps, and yes, there is a difference between the single haul and the double haul. Merry Christmas. — Mr.G. http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html     fine bamboo flyrods & blanks

Response:

Hi George and the rest of you wonderful ROFFers out there, I am here in Nor Cal in my old boxer shorts with a cup of coffee. I have to go into the shop this morning after a couple of days off. Had a nice Christmas with the family. I hope you are all feeling strong and healthy. I hope 2001 is a great year for you all. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a break here today, in between Morning Presents and a beautiful turkey with all the fixings soon to be presented to many friends and relatives.  It is clear here today, crisp and bright as geese fly up and down the river looking for fresh graze. From the Book of Gink: AXIOMS 1)  There is only one thing that determines how far anyone can cast.  It is called, "Line Speed."  The greater the line speed the farther one can cast. 2)  Fly lines, like rubber bands, stretch.  As long as this slack remains (WITHIN Fly lines) while fly casting, energy is required to remove it.  That which is required to do so do NOT increase the line speed until the stretch is removed in all fly lines.  The tighter the line, the greater the line speed can be applied into a tightly taunt line. 3)  The greatest power that can be applied to a fly line is in the potential energy stored in the butt section of all fly rods.  Getting to that power is the question.  How do we do that? 4)  Fly rods are also fulcrums.  If one half a fly rod, from the tip to the mid section is bent during the forward cast, any applied power beyond these forward power curves is not unlike a long pole under a big rock with the fulcrum moved CLOSER to the weight.  In this case, the butt section! 5)  There are three forward motions that must be in unison for the double haul. a)  The rod hand that moves forward, toward the front of the ear. 1) This is the move that removes line slack behind the caster. b)  The turn over of the wrist. c)  The haul that occurs DURING the instant the wrist starts to turn over DURING the simultaneous forward thrust of the fist. In other words, the hand comes forward and as you pass your ear, the thumb starts to turn over, driving the bend of the rod farther into the butt at the same instant the haul is applied which drives all the power farther into the butt which collects more power, bending the rod even more. Here is where a micro-second is required to hold onto the fly line and not releasing it just then.  The haul hand comes down and time is allowed in the fly rod to increase the line speed.  As soon as the tip of the fly rod is about forward, the haul hand releases the fly line . . . and you let her fly! HINT:  Keep the tip higher than you normally do for maximum distance. There is more, but this is as simple as I can make it right now.  One demo is worth a thousand words. But!  Let us all remember that fly lines are really weak rubber bands and stretching a fly line out first is paramount so one can make it as tight as possible before you can really increase fly line speed properly. Hope some of this helps, and yes, there is a difference between the single haul and the double haul. Merry Christmas. — Mr.G. http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html     fine bamboo flyrods & blanks

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – George, I pretty much agree with all you said, except the very first point, I rthink it should read: There is only one thing that determines how far anyone can cast, it is called **line acceleration** the rate of change in line speed. Loading the rod, using haul(s), wrist snaps, etc. evrything you and others have listed, all should contribute to increasing line acceleration during the casting stroke. If the line is not accelerating at the end of the casting stroke and when the rod unloads, the line will immediately begin to fall. I find that once a client understands feeling the weight on the backcast, and then adds the little tweaks on the way to the end of the casting stroke, the quicker they learn to maiximise distance and accuracy. Just by the by, I rarely use a double haul, only occasionally using a single haul, and that is when using 9 weights in the big rivers with big flies or heavy nymphs, or in the saltwater. And leaving my modesty behind I can toss out most of a flyline when I have to, without hauling. I go along with Lefty Kreh who said something along the lines of, hauling and such too often teaches someone to cast their mistakes further. — Tony Bishop  New Zealand http://bishfish.co.nz

that has more casting mistakes than any of them and frankly, shouldn’t be teaching casting until he gets his errors corrected by a master. However; Lefty is very popular but it is no excuse to promote incorrect casting techniques.  I like Lefty, but there is a limit to condoning the public’s jaundiced eye.  Much better teachers are probably everyone else that does so in the industry but the best of the lot, in my opinion is D.Swisher.  Another is E. Schwiebert if and when he is available, but the best in the world is Steve Rajif.  This is the man Kreh all fly casting teachers should see on occasion.  Steve is a marvelous teacher and instructor.  I can’t count the number of times he would watch me cast at a show and point out some new quirk I had picked up. By the way, there is going to be a FLY FISHING SHOW IN DENVER this coming January, on the 6th & 7th.  I plan to be there with a booth.   — Mr.G. http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html     fine bamboo flyrods & blanks

Response:

George, I pretty much agree with all you said, except the very first point, I rthink it should read: There is only one thing that determines how far anyone can cast, it is called **line acceleration** the rate of change in line speed. Loading the rod, using haul(s), wrist snaps, etc. evrything you and others have listed, all should contribute to increasing line acceleration during the casting stroke. If the line is not accelerating at the end of the casting stroke and when the rod unloads, the line will immediately begin to fall. I find that once a client understands feeling the weight on the backcast, and then adds the little tweaks on the way to the end of the casting stroke, the quicker they learn to maiximise distance and accuracy. Just by the by, I rarely use a double haul, only occasionally using a single haul, and that is when using 9 weights in the big rivers with big flies or heavy nymphs, or in the saltwater. And leaving my modesty behind I can toss out most of a flyline when I have to, without hauling. I go along with Lefty Kreh who said something along the lines of, hauling and such too often teaches someone to cast their mistakes further. — Tony Bishop  New Zealand http://bishfish.co.nz

Response:

I have a break here today, in between Morning Presents and a beautiful turkey with all the fixings soon to be presented to many friends and relatives.  It is clear here today, crisp and bright as geese fly up and down the river looking for fresh graze. From the Book of Gink: AXIOMS 1)  There is only one thing that determines how far anyone can cast.  It is called, "Line Speed."  The greater the line speed the farther one can cast. 2)  Fly lines, like rubber bands, stretch.  As long as this slack remains (WITHIN Fly lines) while fly casting, energy is required to remove it.  That which is required to do so do NOT increase the line speed until the stretch is removed in all fly lines.  The tighter the line, the greater the line speed can be applied into a tightly taunt line. 3)  The greatest power that can be applied to a fly line is in the potential energy stored in the butt section of all fly rods.  Getting to that power is the question.  How do we do that? 4)  Fly rods are also fulcrums.  If one half a fly rod, from the tip to the mid section is bent during the forward cast, any applied power beyond these forward power curves is not unlike a long pole under a big rock with the fulcrum moved CLOSER to the weight.  In this case, the butt section! 5)  There are three forward motions that must be in unison for the double haul.         a)  The rod hand that moves forward, toward the front of the ear.                 1) This is the move that removes line slack behind the caster.         b)  The turn over of the wrist.         c)  The haul that occurs DURING the instant the wrist starts to turn over DURING the simultaneous forward thrust of the fist.   In other words, the hand comes forward and as you pass your ear, the thumb starts to turn over, driving the bend of the rod farther into the butt at the same instant the haul is applied which drives all the power farther into the butt which collects more power, bending the rod even more. Here is where a micro-second is required to hold onto the fly line and not releasing it just then.  The haul hand comes down and time is allowed in the fly rod to increase the line speed.  As soon as the tip of the fly rod is about forward, the haul hand releases the fly line . . . and you let her fly! HINT:  Keep the tip higher than you normally do for maximum distance. There is more, but this is as simple as I can make it right now.  One demo is worth a thousand words. But!  Let us all remember that fly lines are really weak rubber bands and stretching a fly line out first is paramount so one can make it as tight as possible before you can really increase fly line speed properly. Hope some of this helps, and yes, there is a difference between the single haul and the double haul. Merry Christmas. — Mr.G. http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html     fine bamboo flyrods & blanks

Response:

Question:

Does any one out there have any info on fly fishing using a rudder.

Fly fishing with a drift control rudder (similar in effect to a lee board) is used on some of the large reservoirs in the English Midlands. These are really trolling techniques and a pretty far cry from what most of us regard as true fly fishing: usually using fast sink/lead core lines and big tandem lures or tube flies (dead blackbirds, etc.). They are, nevertheless, effective techniques for ’specimen hunting’ really big, dour browns and rainbows, that are not usually caught by conventional ‘fly’ fishing. The guy who can probably tell you most about rudder fishing is Steve Parton: a vastly experienced; plain talking and helpful tackle dealer based near Nottingham. He wrote a book that covered the subject pretty fully. It’s out of print now, but he might have a copy or two left. Tight Lines Tony Deacon P.S. Drogues are used very extensively on the English reservoirs and everyone calls them drogues.

Response:

: Does any one out there have any info on fly fishing using a rudder. : : Well I am not too sure about fly-fishing with it, but if you look at the : shark thread on here, you might find it would be useful for bashing them on : the head with ? : Perhaps you could work it into a collage with the Nautical Art Deco Lamp ? : Seriously,  a rudder is not much use for steering a boat while flyfishing. : The best method is to have a boatman using oars to control the boat, if you : have enough way on to steer properly with a rudder, then the boat is usually : moving too fast.  A drogue is much more useful for controlling a drift, : especially if you are alone in the boat. : A drogue is a device usually made of strong cloth or similar, and placed in : the water on the end of a rope to act as a brake and steering device. : Depending on how and where it is placed, very precise drifting may be : achieved. It seems to me that drogue is an aeronautical term. Us old swabbies know it as a Sea Anchor! : Tight lines ! : Mike Connor — I’m a Canadian eh!                                              Steve. The FAQ for rec.crafts.metalworking is at: http://w3.uwyo.edu/~metal The metalworking drop box  is at           http://www.metalworking.com                                     or     http://208.213.200.132 Visit my website at: http://www.victoria.tc.ca/~ud233/homepage.htm

Response:

Does any one out there have any info on fly fishing using a rudder.

Response:

Does any one out there have any info on fly fishing using a rudder.

Well I am not too sure about fly-fishing with it, but if you look at the shark thread on here, you might find it would be useful for bashing them on the head with ? Perhaps you could work it into a collage with the Nautical Art Deco Lamp ? Seriously,  a rudder is not much use for steering a boat while flyfishing. The best method is to have a boatman using oars to control the boat, if you have enough way on to steer properly with a rudder, then the boat is usually moving too fast.  A drogue is much more useful for controlling a drift, especially if you are alone in the boat. A drogue is a device usually made of strong cloth or similar, and placed in the water on the end of a rope to act as a brake and steering device. Depending on how and where it is placed, very precise drifting may be achieved. Tight lines ! Mike Connor

Response:

Question:

To the tune of "Way down upon the Swanee river" <bastard rod rendition snipped only for the sake of brevity

Mike, you never cease to amaze me. Imagine, a Brit, who resides in Germany, writing a tune to mimic my native states revered and favored song by the nineteenth century American songwriter, Stephen Foster. obroff: The Suwanee River originates in Southern Georgia in the Okeefenokee Swamp. It slowly meanders down into Florida where many beautiful aquifer fed springs pump many more gallons of pure clear water into it diluting the tannic nature from the great Georgia swamp. It eventually flows into the Gulf of Mexico. It is a wonderful fishery and even supports a protected sturgeon population. –Walt — Ezflyfish.com                 Blue Ridge Book Gallery Quality Gear & Service        Used & Out-of-Print Books http://www.ezflyfish.com      http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 (828)963-5001

Response:

One of the greatest and most haunting tunes ever written. My favourite banjo song. Obroff:  When flyfishing for pike the worn out top string of a banjo makes an excellent leader tippet, although silk wound mandolin strings are even better. TL MC

Response:

My favorite is Dueling Banjo’s. Ernie Harrison

<snip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -One of the greatest and most haunting tunes ever written. My favourite banjo song. <snip

Response:

Important revision after reading through !!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So think of this when you cast your Bastard, what one man may achieve, with hope and guts and a little bit of money, the fruits you now perceive, no matter what the world may say about it, one really must admire, the drive and guts and hard determination, to be a Bastard sire ! Tight lines ! Mike Connor

Response:

To the tune of "Way down upon the Swanee river" Way down upon the old Snake river, one fine summer day, a dare was accepted there to build a bastard, and George set out to find a way, a first class rod of noble  lineage, the most perfect Bastard known, even dark ones would be made to order, on a brand new mill at home. The first attempts were fraught with problems, getting the right Bamboo, but this barrier was soon surmounted, and he set out to search for glue, the glue was found, and it was brilliant, so he carried on the scheme, the first few rods were not quite his standard, marred by the odd glue seam. A couple of butts were the first real station, on his lonesome road, the tips were harder, but he shouldered the burden, of his heavy load, a new mill head was then invented, and the tips at last took form, a wrapping machine, and several incidentals, took the rodbuilding world by storm The way was hard, and seemingly unending, but the target is now in sight, a good cane rod for just a few poor dollars, maybe George was really right, all those who scoffed and his plan derided, are now feeling rather small, He came he saw he boasted of his prowess, and now he

Question:

Need info on how to access the river below Brockaway Mills.

Response:

Rich, I have never fished it myself…my buddies tell me below Brockway is better for smallies later in the season than trout.  That  not withstanding , the best advice for access is to call the warden for that area.  His name is Philip Howland and his number is 802 885 4975.  I am certain he can tell the easiest and most productive area in which to access.  Have fun. James James Ehlers Uncle Jammer’s Guide Service 1997 Guide of the Year Vermont Fly Fishing, Hunting, River and Woodland Outings http://pobox.com/~uncle

Response:

Hi, My sister lives near Ascutney, and I fished the Williams a year ago. We went in near the power plant (dam) at Herrick’s Cove (I think that’s the name), and since the power co. had been letting no water out yet, it was high and quite good fishing. – went all over the cove area, and actually you could go right to the Conneticutt. Directions – take #5 hwy to the jct with 103, sign says NE power picnic area – boat access is there. If I remeber correctly, the rest of the water between the Mill and the cove was a series of small flatwater pools with lots of shallows in between – but then I was there in August ! Bill Need info on how to access the river below Brockaway Mills.

– Bill Curry Tight Lines Guide Service Lockeport, Nova Scotia, Canada http://www.tightlines.ns.ca

Response:

Question:

We have had reports of steelhead being caught on flies in several rivers. The Umpqua, Deschutes and Rogue rivers have produced for some of our customers in the last few weeks. I like September/October for the best water temperatures. If the water is in the 55/65 degree range you will have steelhead really moving to the fly. In the winter the water can get into the under 50 degree range which really makes it hard for most fly fishers to catch steelhead. Don’t get me wrong, you can catch fish in the winter, Dec/Jan/Feb, it is just a little harder to get the fish to move to the fly. Early and late in the day is prime time for swinging flies on or near the surface for steelhead. Fishing with the sun off the water is the normal rule. After the sun hit the water you can get down to the bottom with any method you can. Fall steelhead can be found in many rivers from northern California to British Columbia. Steelhead are a treasure only found in North America and should never be taken for a trophy or dinner. William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA

Response:

   I have been told by the steelhead experts at my favorite local flyshop that if/when the steelhead goes on the endangered list that all hatcheries will be shut down and sportfishing will be prohibited.  Call me a pessimist, but if this is true, I think it’s too bad that we will just stand around on the bank with our hands in our pockets while the last few steelhead in the lower 48 die.  After all, sportfishing has little or nothing to do with the decline in the population and we are surely dreaming if we think the dams will come down in time.    By the way, any predictions or advice for the Clearwater in late October? -al

Response:

Steelhead are a treasure only found in North America and should never be taken for a trophy or dinner. William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA

Great post!  However, I take issue with the last sentence.  I make a large distinction between wild (i.e. unmarked) and hatchery fish.  I used to release most hatchery fish and all wild fish.  I still release all wild fish, but now retain all hatchery fish – if for no other reason than to prevent the possible breeding between hatchery and wild fish.  We have to preserve wild stocks so that there is something to left when the hatchery fish all die off from disease. cheers, -tony gades — Tony Gades website:   http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades

Response:

Steelhead are a treasure only found in North America and should never be

taken for a trophy or dinner. Every hatchery Steelhead should be taken when ever legal. T Wolf

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Steelhead are a treasure only found in North America and should never be taken for a trophy or dinner. William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA Great post!  However, I take issue with the last sentence.  I make a large distinction between wild (i.e. unmarked) and hatchery fish.  I used to release most hatchery fish and all wild fish.  I still release all wild fish, but now retain all hatchery fish – if for no other reason than to prevent the possible breeding between hatchery and wild fish.  We have to preserve wild stocks so that there is something to left when the hatchery fish all die off from disease. cheers, -tony gades — Tony Gades website:   http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades

Responsible citizens have a social duty to remove inferior specimens from the gene pool.  Releasing hatchery fish to genetically pollute wild stodks is an abdication of that responsibility.   Mike in PDX "When the trout are lost, smash the state."                           Tom McGuane

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We have had reports of steelhead being caught on flies in several rivers. The Umpqua, Deschutes and Rogue rivers have produced for some of our customers in the last few weeks. I like September/October for the best water temperatures. If the water is in the 55/65 degree range you will have steelhead really moving to the fly. In the winter the water can get into the under 50 degree range which really makes it hard for most fly fishers to catch steelhead. Don’t get me wrong, you can catch fish in the winter, Dec/Jan/Feb, it is just a little harder to get the fish to move to the fly. Early and late in the day is prime time for swinging flies on or near the surface for steelhead. Fishing with the sun off the water is the normal rule. After the sun hit the water you can get down to the bottom with any method you can. Fall steelhead can be found in many rivers from northern California to British Columbia. Steelhead are a treasure only found in North America and should never be taken for a trophy or dinner. William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA

I was lucky to have fished for steelhead with some good anglers in the 60’s and 70’s when it was not that hard to catch them. It is very sad to see what has happened to their habitat. I have old friends, Joe Shirshac and Walt Bennette, that started fly fishing for steelhead just after WWII. They have some wonderful stories and pictures from the good old days. I agree that all wild steelhead should be released and all hatchery fish should be taken. I wish that we could start with a few good rivers and blow the dams out. If we had some decent water and a wild river I think in time runs would come back. I will be out on the American river the next few weeks looking for our half-pounder run that is best in September. I have fished for these little fish for 35 years. They run 16" plus and are great friends. I have caught them over 5 pounds on a dry fly and 7 pounds on a wet. William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA

Response:

Question:

i learned to fly fish when i was a teenager – only for panfish.  now, my fiance and i are getting started into fly fishing.  any advice would be greatly appreciated.  i have seen videos and read a lot of articles but i am not relly sure that i understand how to fish nymphs and streamers.  i understand the theory but i am confused about how to present the fly, how deep do you want it, when do you use additional weight, do you fish fast or slow moving water, and how do you cast with weight on the line?   these are only a few of my questions, but any advice on wet flies would be helpful.  even though i live in new jersey and only fish for stocked fished, i really enjoy it and would like to figure out what i should be doing before i move somewhere with natural trout streams.  please send me                                                 peace – JA

Response:

: understand the theory but i am confused about how to present the fly, how : deep do you want it, when do you use additional weight, do you fish : fast or slow moving water, and how do you cast with weight on the line?   You usually want to fish your nymphs dead drift, with no drag, right off the bottom.  An upstream cast or a quatering upstream cast give you the best opportunity to get a drag free drift.  The only exception to fishing your nymphs higher in the water column is when there is a hatch on and the nymphs are rising to the surface to transform into adults.  Nymphs fished this way can also use a little action.  For expample, mayflies rise to the surface with an ineffecient, undulating motion.  You should use weighted nymphs because when using lead on your leader you often end up with an unnatural action of the fly.  Use extra weight when the current is strong enough that your fly doesn’t get to the bottom during its drift.  Fishing slow or moving water depends on the species of nymph you are trying to imitate (where does it hang out in the stream?) and where the fish are.  A stream I have recently been fishing has a bunch of stockers in a slow side pool.  They have not spread out yet so I have to fish in this slow water.  If you are fishing primarily for stockers, then you may not have the need to imitate anything in particular.  Just make sure you have a bunch of different looking patterns.  The stockers will hit anything they haven’t seen before, generally.  Use Wooly worms, Hare’s ear nymphs, maybe some caddis larvae, and try a Hellagrammite or Stonefly nymph.  The latter two are big so the stockers can see them from further away.  Later in the year the stockers will smarten up and you may have to start matching the drift.

Response:

Question:

I just stumbled into this forum and to my delight discovered it might serve my major interests.   FI, I just returned from a fine a morning on Puget Sound, where a friend and I flyfished for two hours to a school of coho salmon.   He h&red six, I h&red five.   I am interested in fly fishing in general, and about new prospects.   I keep a place on the Skagit River, a major steelhead stream, and I hope to make a contact with someone who might like to swap a steelhead trip with me for an atlantic salmon trip on the east coast.  I can be reached at this forum.

Response:

I just stumbled into this forum and to my delight discovered it might serve my major interests.   FI, I just returned from a fine a morning on Puget Sound, where a friend and I flyfished for two hours to a school of coho salmon.   He h&red six, I h&red five.   I am interested in fly fishing in general, and about new prospects.  

You might try rec.outdoors.fishing.fly as well then.   — John Fereira Pleasanton, CA

Response:

: I just stumbled into this forum and to my delight discovered it might : serve my major interests.   FI, I just returned from a fine a morning on : Puget Sound, where a friend and I flyfished for two hours to a school of : coho salmon.   He h&red six, I h&red five.   I am interested in fly : fishing in general, and about new prospects.   I keep a place on the : Skagit River, a major steelhead stream, and I hope to make a contact : with someone who might like to swap a steelhead trip with me for an : atlantic salmon trip on the east coast.  I can be reached at this forum. If you like this, try rec.outoors.fishing.fly, just next door (kinda). — |     Bob Lundy                   | |     Mississauga, ON, Canada     |

Response:

                Yes the name is rec.outdoors.fishing.fly I read it everyday — "TEAM LIP RIP"   SARASOTA,FL                     BRING BACK THE GOOD OLE DAYS  

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Is there a newsgroup specifically dedicated to flyfishing?  If so, could someone post the name of the newgroup so I could access it.  I had thought that the group was rec.outdoors.fishing-fly, but had no luck with that name, or rearrangements of it.  Many thanks in advance. Steve C.

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Is there a newsgroup specifically dedicated to flyfishing?  If so, could someone post the name of the newgroup so I could access it.  I had thought that the group was rec.outdoors.fishing-fly, but had no luck with that name, or rearrangements of it.  Many thanks in advance. Steve C.

In theory "rec.outdoors.fishing.fly" is dedicated to flyfishing.  It is still young enough not to be caught in the endless debates that ultimately plague each and every group.  Join while it lasts… -tgades

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Is there a newsgroup specifically dedicated to flyfishing?

Checking the recent internet guides to newsgroups there is no specific group dedicated to flyfishing. But we flyfishers can use this or the newsgroup alt.fishing as a forum. FlyphishR, Havertown, PA

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: Is there a newsgroup specifically dedicated to flyfishing? : Checking the recent internet guides to newsgroups : there is no specific group dedicated to flyfishing. : But we flyfishers can use this or the newsgroup : alt.fishing as a forum. : FlyphishR, Havertown, PA I betcha the book came out after the newsgroup was created- that was about mid May.  It’s rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.  If you don’t get it, ask your site administrator.  You’ll get a much better response there than here or alt.fishing as to your ff questions or comments.  There’s a list-server too….

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Question:

I noticed a hat with mosquito netting draped over the face and neck, kind of like a beekeepers bonnet, in an REI catalog. Has anyone tried one of these hats?

Yes. They are fantastic.

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-bill "I hate the stench of insect repellent" faus Have you tried eating LOTS of garlic &/or vitamin B1 for awhile before your trip? They say if you’ve got it oozing out of your pores, the bugs won’t like it. Your friends will be another problem. —

I had a friend that used B1 – LOTS of it.  I don’t know what it does to the bugs, but it makes a GREAT people repellent!  We go out in the winter when the bugs are fewer, not gone, but fewer. Ted

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[headnets]  Yes!  They work.  They’re slightly annoying to wear, altho not as annoying as swarming mosquitoes or the dreaded black flies.  We took it a step farther.  My wife has made netting jackets, complete with hood, for us and our kids.  Leggin’s too, so we can wear shorts in heavy duty bug country.

        I’ve seen commercially made net jackets as well.  You’re supposed to soak the whole thing in DEET between wearings.  Probably best for stationary, high-bug activities like fishing.  I think Bean’s has them.

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I noticed a hat with mosquito netting draped over the face and neck, kind of like a beekeepers bonnet, in an REI catalog. Has anyone tried one of these hats?

        A lightweight approach to physical insect barriers is a plain headnet of no-se-um mesh (looks like a stuff sack, complete with neck drawcord;  about 1 oz. and $5 at Campmor and other places).  It helps to wear a hat underneath (any kind will do) to cover the top of the head and hold the netting away from the face.  Yes, it dims the view a bit, but it keeps the bugs away.  The only tricky part is eating.  ;-)         A caveat;  just because the bugs can’t get to you doesn’t mean they won’t try.  I tried to sleep once in headnet and bivy sack and was kept awake all night by the high-frequency buzzing in my ears.  Next time, I’ll remember my earplugs, but I did get some wonderful pictures of the dawn.  ;-) -bill "I hate the stench of insect repellent" faus

        Likewise.  I’ll almost always choose long clothing and headnet over sun block and bug repellent.

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So many people in the last few months have been recommending B-1 to ward off mosquitos in the last few months that I’m ready to try it, BUT no posting that I’ve seen yet has had *anything* to say about the question "How much is LOTS?" A common size that I’ve seen for B-1 only tablets is 100 mg, which is 6667% of the US RDA.  Does 100 mg/day qualify as LOTS?

        Yeah, I’d say that’d be sufficient!         I have used it in previous years, and it seems to work ok. Takes about a week to take effect though, and you have to remember to take it every day. It’s not foolproof, but does seem to cut into the population of bugs. EXPERIMENT!                                                         -Pat Salsbury

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I remember being eaten alive in the Wind River Range in Wyoming one spring, in spite of lashings of industrial-strength repellent. At least I had the pleasure of killing 10-20 mozzies in one swat! I met a grizzled old fellow who had been camping in the area for 50 years, and he was totally oblivious to the little monsters.

Name of Finis Mitchell, by any chance? Mitchell Peak in the Cirque of the Towers is named after him. I’ve met him too, totally oblivious to mosquitos feeding on his face, telling us about places around about. That was seven or eight years ago – I wonder if he’s still alive and hiking. He was getting up there… but he was in better shape than I.                                                         Jeff Winslow

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I noticed a hat with mosquito netting draped over the face and neck, kind of like a beekeepers bonnet, in an REI catalog. Has anyone tried one of these hats? Yes, I have used one in Alaska and in the Cascades.  They are hot, they interfere with vision, and are generally obnoxious.

I haven’t seen the REI version, but mine is coarser than no-see-um netting. Highly recommended. It is comfortable, doesn’t interfere w/vision (I find my self enjoying the scenery adequately, though prefer the bugless unimpeded world), and is a very welcome addition to the checklist. Perhaps the above poster is using too fine a mesh ? —

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Have you tried eating LOTS of garlic &/or vitamin B1 for awhile before your trip? They say if you’ve got it oozing out of your pores, the bugs won’t like it. Your friends will be another problem.

So many people in the last few months have been recommending B-1 to ward off mosquitos in the last few months that I’m ready to try it, BUT no posting that I’ve seen yet has had *anything* to say about the question "How much is LOTS?" A common size that I’ve seen for B-1 only tablets is 100 mg, which is 6667% of the US RDA.  Does 100 mg/day qualify as LOTS? More? Should I be choking it down by the wheelbarrow load? Can someone give me an order of magnitude here? Thanks!                                 — Dave Alexander — "When I was a little boy in Baltimore in 1954, I wanted  to be a juvenile delinquent when I grew up."                                 — John Waters

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|   Yes!  They [mosquito net hats] work.  They’re slightly annoying to | wear, altho not as annoying as swarming mosquitoes or the dreaded | black flies.  We took it a step farther.  My wife has made netting | jackets, complete with hood, for us and our kids.  Leggin’s too, so | we can wear shorts in heavy duty bug country. I found a simple way to keep the little buggers from biting through my shirt that doesn’t require any fancy sewing skills.  I got an athletic style mesh T-shirt (looks like it’s made of fine fish net) and I wear it underneath a normal long sleve shirt.  This holds the shirt away from my skin by ~1mm making it difficult for the skeeters to reach me. Works great so long as the temperature isn’t too high. —    Advanced Micro Devices       N5PSS    Austin, Texas                1-(512)-462-5389 "You can’t leap a chasm in two jumps."

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I noticed a hat with mosquito netting draped over the face…. Has anyone tried one of these hats?

My wife brought a couple of these from Canada to New Zealand. You look like a real twit, but at least your a happy twit. To my regret, peering through all that gauze makes fly-fishing impossible. She laughs, I suffer. -bill "I hate the stench of insect repellent" faus

Have you tried eating LOTS of garlic &/or vitamin B1 for awhile before your trip? They say if you’ve got it oozing out of your pores, the bugs won’t like it. Your friends will be another problem. —

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I noticed a hat with mosquito netting draped over the face and neck, kind of like a beekeepers bonnet, in an REI catalog. Has anyone tried one of these hats?

Yes, I have used one in Alaska and in the Cascades.  They are hot, they interfere with vision, and are generally obnoxious.  However they stop all the mosquitos, and also things like deer flies and black flies that aren’t impressed by DEET.  And save you from corroding your skin with noxious chemicals.  I still carry it whenever I go to particularly fierce bug country.                                 Chuck Smythe

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All this got me thinking though, how did people sleeping outdoors in the olden days keep the biting bugs away?  

I’ve heard of people in the old days smearing their skin with mud, but have never tried it as a bug repellent. I’ve also heard that you can develop an immunity to your local mosquitoes, so that you’d still get bitten, but not get as irritated as an outsider would. I remember being eaten alive in the Wind River Range in Wyoming one spring, in spite of lashings of industrial-strength repellent. At least I had the pleasure of killing 10-20 mozzies in one swat! I met a grizzled old fellow who had been camping in the area for 50 years, and he was totally oblivious to the little monsters. —

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I noticed a hat with mosquito netting draped over the face and neck, kind of like a beekeepers bonnet, in an REI catalog. Has anyone tried one of these hats?

  Yes!  They work.  They’re slightly annoying to wear, altho not as annoying as swarming mosquitoes or the dreaded black flies.  We took it a step farther.  My wife has made netting jackets, complete with hood, for us and our kids.  Leggin’s too, so we can wear shorts in heavy duty bug country. -bill "I hate the stench of insect repellent" faus

– And little Sir John with his nut brown bowl        Tony Wesley/RPT Software                 And his brandy in the glass        voice: (313) 274-2080           Proved the strongest man at last…    Compu$erve: 72770,2053

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On a related subject, I noticed a hat with mosquito netting draped over the face and neck, kind of like a beekeepers bonnet, in an REI catalog. Has anyone tried one of these hats? -bill "I hate the stench of insect repellent" faus

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Jeff Haferman  how did people sleeping outdoors in Jeff Haferman  the olden days keep the biting bugs away? Before the invention of Avon Skin-So-Soft, the ultimate mosquito repellent, we smeared our skin with a mixture of bison grease and wood ashes.  We also migrated from the bug infested banks of the Great Water to higher, dryer ground during the worst of the mosquito season.

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All this got me thinking though, how did people sleeping outdoors in the olden days keep the biting bugs away?  

They only bathed once a month.

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All this got me thinking though, how did people sleeping outdoors in the olden days keep the biting bugs away?  

Not wash for months at a time?

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I slept beneath the stars on the banks of the Mississippi this weekend, and it was beautiful, with 1 exception – I neglected to bring any mosquito repellent.  I covered my head with a thick sweater and this worked pretty well except I would get too hot and have to remove it. Sleeping near the campfire worked pretty well too since the smoke seemed to keep the bugs away. All this got me thinking though, how did people sleeping outdoors in the olden days keep the biting bugs away?   Department of Mechanical Engineering University of Iowa Iowa City IA  52240

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