Question:

….Wolfgang, do you fish? Been thinking about trying it.  Care to recommend a good pole? Wolfgang  South! S.

<splorkski

Response:

I’ve heard the Cabela’s Three Forks is a good stick… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ….Wolfgang, do you fish? Been thinking about trying it.  Care to recommend a good pole? Wolfgang

Response:

Why not avoid the riffraff and start a private group? rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.grumpy.old.men It’s astonishing how the denizens of this group expect newcomers to take a ration and yet are so offended at the slightest ribbing. I think you take yourselfs a little too seriously. Except for Wolfgang, but I bet he’s not so glib when he’s low on meds. Believe me, I am not worth getting too worked up about. Just killfile me and get on with your life, as mature, and therefore out of the question, as that may sound. Bugger Everybody

Response:

… It’s astonishing how the denizens of this group expect newcomers to take a ration and yet are so offended at the slightest ribbing.

We expect EVERYBODY to "take a ration". That’s the nature of the place and newbies are not exempt. It takes a pretty thick skin to voice an unpopular opinion around here but I, for one, agree with you about the Korean piece of shit Cabela’s Three Forks. Hang around, ignore most of the shit-weasels and give tit-for-tat to the rest. You might have fun. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Why not avoid the riffraff and start a private group?

Why not form your own group and thus avoid riffraff and grumpy old men? Or simply die? rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.grumpy.old.men It’s astonishing how the denizens of this group expect newcomers to take a ration and yet are so offended at the slightest ribbing.

It is even more astonishing to contemplate how ill equipped you are to determine what anyone expects or who is offended by what.  But then, what with your head spending so much time up your ass, all that buggery was bound to have some unpleasant consequences, wasn’t it? I think you take yourselfs a little too seriously.

Well, aside from the fact that the vast majority of us have only a single self (unlike some other highly uninteresting individuals who only drop in occasionally to take a much deserved and inevitable drubbing) and that the group as a whole also has only a single self, what you may or may not believe you think (assuming such a ludicrous notion has any applicability to this or any other world) is a matter which no one here is likely to take seriously. Except for Wolfgang,

Always quite flattering to be thought of as exceptional. but I bet he’s not so glib when he’s low on meds.

Genius.  Sheer unadulterated genius.  Mind if I use that one some time? Believe me,

As a rule, that is not likely to happen. I am not worth getting too worked up about.

We believe you. Just killfile me

No.  That has never worked for you before…..why would you think it would this time? and get on with your life,

Well, aside from the fact that we do not share a single life (each of us having been bestowed with an entire one of his or her own), what in the world would make you think that any of your pusillanimous pettifoggery would prompt anyone to put his or her life on hold for even the briefest instant? as mature, and therefore out of the question, as that may sound.

Actually, it doesn’t, for all of the reasons stated above. Wolfgang and he STILL doesn’t get it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Bugger Everybody

Response:

"pusillanimous pettifoggery" "pusillanimous pettifoggery" "pusillanimous pettifoggery" Cool.

Response:

Why not avoid the riffraff and start a private group? rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.grumpy.old.men

And just how do you know we are old? I mean, you could be a lot older and are obviously quite grumpy enough for us all. Oh, and you forgot the "cor" at the beginning of your email address. — HTH, Tim

Response:

Hello all you hansom, intellectual, talented ROFFers (especially rw), Hi Bugger too, Everyone that could not take the diversity of fly fisherman on the web here already left this group years ago slamming the door loudly. You have to be very open minded to be here for the long hall. You have to have a sense of humor too. I remember sitting here years ago, dead of winter, nothing going on and "T-bone" would make a post that made me laugh so loud that I woke my wife in the next room. You have to be half crazy to have a fly shop to because we get some customers that make George look passive. Only stay here if it is worth it, but save the complaints because we have already heard them all. I don’t care if you are a "nympher" or a "troller" or just "too cerebral", OK, now I will tell a bed time story for you guys. (10:30pm in California) When I was a teenager I ran around with a neighborhood group of guys in south Sacramento. When I was with the group, someone was always teasing me about my clothes or my hair or something I said. One day I just left mad. The next day at school a friend ask me where I went. I told him I did not think many of them liked me because they always teased me. He said that they teased everyone in the group. My friend said that if they did not like you, they would not say anything thing to you. Most people just want to be noticed. My friend was pretty smart. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why not avoid the riffraff and start a private group? rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.grumpy.old.men It’s astonishing how the denizens of this group expect newcomers to take a ration and yet are so offended at the slightest ribbing. I think you take yourselfs a little too seriously. Except for Wolfgang, but I bet he’s not so glib when he’s low on meds. Believe me, I am not worth getting too worked up about. Just killfile me and get on with your life, as mature, and therefore out of the question, as that may sound. Bugger Everybody

Response:

Suggestion withdrawn. It just occurred to me that I am pretty grumpy, and certainly not young, which is to say approaching middle age, as long as I plan to live until I’m 85… Bugger Me p.s. My apologies to the troll about advice for a ‘fishing pole’. I figured this group would jump all over the faux paus of calling a fly rod a pole. What do I get? Advice. Shit, maybe I’ll try out the 3 forks. p.p.s. Wolfgang, do you fish? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why not avoid the riffraff and start a private group? rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.grumpy.old.men It’s astonishing how the denizens of this group expect newcomers to take a ration and yet are so offended at the slightest ribbing. I think you take yourselfs a little too seriously. Except for Wolfgang, but I bet he’s not so glib when he’s low on meds. Believe me, I am not worth getting too worked up about. Just killfile me and get on with your life, as mature, and therefore out of the question, as that may sound. Bugger Everybody

Response:

….Wolfgang, do you fish?

Been thinking about trying it.  Care to recommend a good pole? Wolfgang

Response:

….Wolfgang, do you fish? Been thinking about trying it.  Care to recommend a good pole? Wolfgang

 South! S.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ….Wolfgang, do you fish? Been thinking about trying it.  Care to recommend a good pole? Wolfgang South! S.

Lech Walesa! G.C.

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Question:

What an excellent book. The most common advice from the guides in the book it to slow down, look around, and try to figure out what’s going on before you tie on a fly or wade in and start fishing. It’s also amazing how many of them fish dries with 14 ft+ leaders.  Pile cast for sure. Most of them seem to prefer Double Taper lines, which made me feel good. bruce h

Response:

What an excellent book.

I checked that book out from the library about a year and a half ago. Interviewing a variety of guides from many different areas is a great idea. It was interesting reading a book with lots of different viewpoints. Lots of information to pick up. Although I enjoyed the book, I thought that the author could have asked more and better questions. Willi

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Question:

Got an Inside Passage cruise booked for the week of June 15th with my wife and kids, my parents and my brothers.  The boys are looking for some fly fishing opportunities when we are in any and all ports.  Does anyone have any recommendations for locations, guides, or do-it-yourself tips for Seward, Skagway, Ketchikan, orJuneau?  Thanks.  ~  The other "Bob A"

Response:

Bob A. (the other one) writes: Got an Inside Passage cruise booked for the week of June 15th with my wife and kids, my parents and my brothers.  The boys are looking for some fly fishing opportunities when we are in any and all ports.  Does anyone have any recommendations for locations, guides, or do-it-yourself tips for Seward, Skagway, Ketchikan, orJuneau?  Thanks.  ~  The other "Bob A"

Go to:  http://www.google.com/ Type in the above towns, one at a time, within quotes, and + "fly fishing" i.e. "seward" + "fly fishing" You’ll get thousands of hits; you will have to go through them and see what is important/interesting to you.  Good luck. Dave

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Question:

Being somewhat of a vest freak, (along with several alternatives, the best of which is a chest halter with a couple of packs on it), at the last count, which was about five minutes ago, I owned 31 separate purpose built vests, jackets, halters, creels, and related equipment.

31 vests, etc., indeed. Take a look at: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/sp_ROFF_people/page1/connor/con… Mike looks like a desperate deserter from the Vietnam War. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Whiner. I wear a Columbia Sportswear vest I bought at the outlet center for under $20. It has zip-off fleece sleeves, so when it’s cool I can wear a fairly tight fleece vest under the fishing vest, then zip on /zip off/add/remove layers all I want. My .02. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Guys.  Thanks for the (fewer than I’d hoped) opinions on vests. Somehow, I thought the thread would have generated a lot more discussion.

Response:

I wear an Orvis Battenkill Pro Guide Vest.   It was one of the few vests available in my size, XXXL  (I’m 6′4+ and 300Lbs+)  It is also big enough that I can layer clothing under it, and light enough that it doesn’t bother me wearing it all day long.  There’s plenty of space for everything I carry with me including some bulkier items such as a rain poncho, bottled water, a spare reel and spare spools. Of course the fact that I have no other vests, nor have I ever worn another,  I can’t comment on how it compares to any others…..  but it has worked thus far for this (large) newbie. Joshua – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   Guys.  Thanks for the (fewer than I’d hoped) opinions on vests. Somehow, I thought the thread would have generated a lot more discussion. Generally, everyone here has strong opinions on damn near everything.  I’m surprised everyone was so quiet about vest opinions.  I guess I should have said I was going to wear the vest in a burned wilderness area and wanted to look good when pilots checked me out with their binoculars:) Bob Skinner    Buffalo, WY —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

Being somewhat of a vest freak, (along with several alternatives, the best of which is a chest halter with a couple of packs on it), at the last count, which was about five minutes ago, I owned 31 separate purpose built vests, jackets, halters, creels, and related equipment. Most of it is really excellent for one specific purpose, and just about useless for all others, or is at the best a severe compromise, for a whole variety of reasons. On reflection, the inevitable result is that no matter what I put on, it has some disadvantage owing to the  weather, water depth, ease of access, tackle carrying capacity, weight, lack of pockets, surfeit of pockets, etc, etc, or simply personal comfort, at the venue where I eventually arrive, after hours of agonising what to wear, and extremely difficult decisions about what I absolutely have to take along. This unfortunate situation is considerably exacerbated when I visit a new venue, and do not know what I might need, mainly because there are not many pockets big enough to accommodate a kitchen sink. My best overall fishing clothing is a GoreTex SAS camouflage jacket, but this is not suitable for use in very warm weather, when "full", ( the relatively little known "Connor

Question:

I’m thinking real hard about incorporating a two-weight into my fly rod arsenal, and I’d like some opinions on their versatility. Is it a "perfect conditions" only rod, or can you get out in a little wind or water on the higher side? Can it handle mid-range flies, small streamers, weighted nymphs, maybe a smallish wooly bugger? Or is it limited to small dries and wets? What about small poppers? I fish more for warm water fish than trout, and I know a two-weight would be adequate for our stream trout in Pennsylvania, but I would use this a lot for bluegill and crappie and my "experimenting" in ponds and coves from my float tube. I also like to push the envelope and challenge all my rods, so I’d see what I could do on bass and steelhead in Lake Erie tribs in the fall. Right now, I’m looking at either Orvis Silver Label two-weight, either the 7′ 9" or 8′ 4" model. Are the Trident models worth twice as much? Any other brands I should consider? Thanks for all opinions! John Scherrer http://www.cianow.com "Courage is being scared to death…and saddling up anyway." – John Wayne

Response:

–MS_Mac_OE_3043294664_217493_MIME_Part Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable <HTML <HEAD <TITLETwo-weight opinions please!</TITLE </HEAD <BODY I’m thinking real hard … I also like to push the envelope and challenge all my r= ods, so I’d see what I could do on bass and steelhead in Lake Erie tribs in = the fall.<BR … Thanks for all opinions!<BR <BR John Scherrer<BR <FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF"<Uhttp://www.cianow.com<BR </U</FONT<BR <FONT SIZE=3D"4"&quot;Courage is being scared to death…and saddling up any= way.&quot; <BR – <IJohn Wayne</I</FONT </BODY </HTML Be careful what you ask for, someone around here may give you their opinion on using a 2wt for steelhead and on posting in html. Hint: Wear asbestos. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. I’m thinking real hard about incorporating a two-weight into my fly rod arsenal, and I’d like some opinions on their versatility. Right now, I’m looking at either Orvis Silver Label two-weight, either the 7′ 9" or 8′ 4" model. Are the Trident models worth twice as much? Any other brands I should consider? Thanks for all opinions! John Scherrer

John, when you post to a newsgroup NEVER post in MIME format.  Use basic plain text.  Your post is jibberish to a lot of people and wastes time and money for some. Back to your question.  What is the point of adding the 2 wt.? Basically, you are asking if you should use a 2 wt. rod for all the applications you should not use a 2 wt. rod.  I’m not sure what your question really is.  If you want ultra-light line strength, use lighter tippet. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

Response:

    Many of us here, Frank Church and myself to name a few use the 3wt. Cabelas 3 forks for panfish. Being 7.5′ it is ideal for bank fishing of species within it’s range. Because of it’s low cost, there is nothing lost if it is only used sporaticaly. It also is easy to store due to the 3piece take down. I often recommend it as an addition. The cost of rod, reel, line, and 7X tippets (I feel) of one of the premium makers does not justify the limited use of the smaller weight rods. John Popp

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m thinking real hard about incorporating a two-weight into my fly rod arsenal, and I’d like some opinions on their versatility. Is it a "perfect conditions" only rod, or can you get out in a little wind or water on the higher side? Can it handle mid-range flies, small streamers, weighted nymphs, maybe a smallish wooly bugger? Or is it limited to small dries and wets? What about small poppers? I fish more for warm water fish than trout, and I know a two-weight would be adequate for our stream trout in Pennsylvania, but I would use this a lot for bluegill and crappie and my "experimenting" in ponds and coves from my float tube. I also like to push the envelope and challenge all my rods, so I’d see what I could do on bass and steelhead in Lake Erie tribs in the fall. Right now, I’m looking at either Orvis Silver Label two-weight, either the 7′ 9" or 8′ 4" model. Are the Trident models worth twice as much? Any other brands I should consider? Thanks for all opinions! John Scherrer http://www.cianow.com "Courage is being scared to death…and saddling up anyway." – John Wayne

Response:

This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

First off, please turn off the HTML and MIME. I’m thinking real hard about incorporating a two-weight into my fly rod arsenal, and I’d like some opinions on their versatility.

They are not versatile, but can be a useful and fun rod in the right conditions and for the right fish. Is it a "perfect conditions" only rod, or can you get out in a little wind or water on the higher side? Can it handle mid-range flies, small streamers, weighted nymphs, maybe a smallish wooly bugger? Or is it limited to small dries and wets? What about small poppers?

It doesn’t have to be perfect conditions, I take mine out in light wind, but generally when the water is on the high side I bring a different rod. I use small to mid-sized flies, no streamers, nothing weighted, haven’t fished with poppers so I wouldn’t know. I fish more for warm water fish than trout, and I know a two-weight would be adequate for our stream trout in Pennsylvania, but I would use this a lot for bluegill and crappie and my "experimenting" in ponds and coves from my float tube.

A 2-weight is a blast with bluegill and crappie. I also like to push the envelope and challenge all my rods, so I’d see what I could do on bass and steelhead in Lake Erie tribs in the fall.

I’d pass on the bass and steelhead though, the tippet size usually used with a 2-weight would snap right quick.  You could use a heavier tippet and fight the fish from the reel, but then what’s the point of the 2-weight. Right now, I’m looking at either Orvis Silver Label two-weight, either the 7′ 9" or 8′ 4" model. Are the Trident models worth twice as much? Any other brands I should consider?

I have the 7′9" equivalent of the silver label (was called something different back then).  Personally I don’t think the non-silver labels are worth the price, but if you are into asthetics they might be. You might want to consider what type of action you prefer since the 7′9" model is a really slow action and the tridents are relatively fast action.   Later,      - Ken

Response:

Is there any concern about how much protection the rod can provide ?  Or is that not a concern among fly fisherpeople ?

I have found that Trojans and seat belts provide far better protection than any fishing rod could ever give. If I’m ever attacked by a rabid trout, I will be quite willing to re-evaluate. Vegetables aren’t food. Vegetables are what the food eats.

Response:

These are supposed to be close-in rods so don’t buy some fast 2 wt. in the belief it adds to it’s versatility.  Here’s my preferences in no particular order. Orvis 7′ 9" T&T 7′ XL Sage LL 279 Winston IM6 7′

I will be picking up an Orvis Silver Label 792 this weekend.  The local Orvis shop here is willing to let me try it out for a week or two with no obligation to buy…now that is customer service (I purchased my 4wt. from the same shop 2 years ago)!  Apparently, the Silver Label 792 is the same blank as the Superfine/Ultra Fine model with the only real difference being the Silver Label has a walnut, uplocking  reel seat as opposed to the Ultra Fine’s cork, banded seat.  And of course, the price…the Silver Label is about $75.00 USD less than the Ultra Fine.  Actually, it was you Peter who tipped me off about this….thx.  :-) I’ll also be trying out a T&T LPS 802.  I’m sure they are both excellent rods and I will reserve my final judgment until I’ve had a chance to use them both.  Having said that, I will say that the T&T has got to be one helluva rod and really stand out for me to justify spending the extra $$$$ ($380.00 for TT vs. $230.00 for Orvis).  We will see. Also..great tip on the leader..thx again Peter. Natty

Response:

Never felt the need to use my rod for protection. I have, on occasion, used protection on my rod though. Does that count?

  Nope. Before you buy.

Response:

What weight would you need to feel comfortable, Big Dale? I’m pretty good at around 165 myself.  I suspect Dale prefers to pack just a bit more.    :)

125 is adequate for those with steady hands and a steely eye. OBROFF Depends on the two weight.  One of the biggest problems with two is the use of factory leaders.  The little line just can’t turn over a 024 thou butt.  So make your own leaders with .013 to .015 butt sections and the versatility of your little rod goes way up. These are supposed to be close-in rods so don’t buy some fast 2 wt. in the belief it adds to it’s versatility.  Here’s my preferences in no particular order. Orvis 7′ 9" T&T 7′ XL Sage LL 279 Winston IM6 7′ Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

rod can provide ?  Or is that not a concern among fly fisherpeople ?

I do not consider a 2 weight rod an adequate substitute for a Ruger or a twelve gauge. Big Dale. Big Dale

Response:

Wow! I see you’re from Buffalo!!!! One of my favorite places in the world. Been thru a few times, and came out on do-it-yourself hunt at Bud Love back in the mid-80’s (seems like yesterday!) Taking the family out next month for Badlands, Rushmore, Devil’s Tower, 2/3 nights at Buffalo to see the Bighorns and Custer’s battlefield, then over to Cody, Yellowstone and Jackson Hole. Fishing will be incidental, not the purpose of the trip, if you know of any day trips or float trips or do-it-yourself areas, let me know! John Scherrer http://www.cianow.com

Question:

Day Tripper: The tap dancing is pretty close, but my VP banned those sneakers from the Tech Center for the duration ;^) /daytripper (another day done – two more to go…sigh…) See you at the currents on Monday or Tuesday?  Peter is leaving on Wednesday, so you only have those two days.

I’m working on it! The SO is tripping down to NYC for a vacation with a gaggle of her sisters (she is one of 6!) so I have to convince at least one of my sons to hang around the homestead to take care of Opey The Wonder Lab. Assuming threats of being cut out of my will have the desired effect (and I get the front forty mowed in Franconia) I may magically appear…You never know… I’ll pack the mountain bike and would come in through the front gate – just in case the Lovely Joanne tells me you’ve gone down to Lower. I ain’t chasing you up and down the river on foot again! I’ll also pack a flare gun – just in case George decides to rent a float plane and try to land on Pondy. Wing tanks light up pretty easily… /daytripper ;^)

Response:

Day tripper: <<I’ll pack the mountain bike and would come in through the front gate We will be in Sanborn, the 2nd cabin down from Jerry Smith’s. I took your advice and bought some neoprene booties for wet wading. I am concerned that the water temp is going to be too warm in the "best" spots.  Streamer chucking at the end of the currents may be the only fishing. See you next week, hopefully.  Don’t be amazed when you see Peter cast. Dave LaCourse

Response:

<g  It’s the Canadian French in me, Levi.  Some people on these pages don’t like Canadians, much less the French ones.  d;0) Besides, wayno has been calling me LaPlac for ages and it will be tough to change. Dave LaCourse

And besides, LaPlac is French too. Peter Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.cgocable.net/~pcharles/index.html

Response:

Test. Dave LaCourse

Response:

The Choc Man writes:

<<Are you the "LaCrosse" guy George was talking about? Without the "e",  I am but a pigment of his imagination. Dave LaCourse

Response:

The Choc Man writes: <<Are you the "LaCrosse" guy George was talking about? Without the "e",  I am but a pigment of his imagination.

But Dave – he blessed you with an extra "s"! (George must’ve been feeling magnanimous ;^) /daytripper

Response:

I see you changed your last name from PLaC to LaCourse.  I hope you don’t expect everyone to start spelling it right now Test. Dave LaCourse

– Levi All Americans believe that they are born fishermen. For a man to admit to a distaste for fishing would be like denouncing mother-love and hating moonlight.  John Steinbeck 1954

Response:

Levi writes:

<<I see you changed your last name from PLaC to LaCourse.  I hope you don’t expect everyone to start spelling it right now <g  It’s the Canadian French in me, Levi.  Some people on these pages don’t like Canadians, much less the French ones.  d;0) Besides, wayno has been calling me LaPlac for ages and it will be tough to change. Dave LaCourse

Response:

It’s the Canadian French in me, Levi.  Some people on these pages don’t like Canadians, much less the French ones.  (Blah Blah Blah) No no no. Here in the states, we love Canadians. After all, where would we find great hockey players who are willing to smile on camera with busted up teeth. That requires more balls then most. It’s the French we don’t like. I think it’s because the women don’t shave there armpits

Question:

        Help.  I’m stuck up at School and I need something to stay sane. I love to fly fish, but I don’t ha the time to get out.  And there aren’t really any good spots around.  I am interested in fly tying,  but don’t know which one’s are good.  If you have any information please help me. Thanks, Nick

Response:

   Help.  I’m stuck up at School and I need something to stay sane. I love to fly fish, but I don’t ha the time to get out.  And there aren’t really any good spots around.  I am interested in fly tying,  but don’t know which one’s are good.  If you have any information please help me. Thanks, Nick

Ask someone in your local fly shop to show you what you need to get started.  I think you will find that you can get better tools and much better supplies if you buy them seperate, than if you get a kit.  I did when I first started tying.  The difference in cost will be less that you thing. Good Luck, Greg

Response:

Don’t get a kit. In a kit you get a lot of crap that you will never use and some really cheap tools. Get a Thompsom "A" vise, some hooks, and the materials you need for the flies you want to tie. If you haven’t tyed flies before, the wooly bugger is the starting place. Size 10 hooks, thread, chenille and a couple chicken feathers and you are in business.

Response:

Nick: I think the best way to get yourself a fly-tying kit would be buying one piece at a time.  I can’t say that I have seen any really kits worth getting and I am not sure that one can save money either. Simply by a tool or two at a time along with some tying materials for a specific fly.  Gradually, you will end up with enough of tools and materials for the flies you would fish with. There is no need to buy the most expensive vice.  A Thompson vise is plenty for now. good luck jimmy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Help.  I’m stuck up at School and I need something to stay sane. I love to fly fish, but I don’t ha the time to get out.  And there aren’t really any good spots around.  I am interested in fly tying,  but don’t know which one’s are good.  If you have any information please help me. Thanks, Nick

Response:

Check out "The Hyper-Compleat Guide To Getting Started in Flytying" by Steve Schweitzer at Midwest Flytyer at http://www.mwflytyer.com/mft/articles/hyperguide.htm.  Not a bad article.  I’ve passed it onto others who found it useful.

Response:

Question:

I am coming to San Francisco, the Nappa Valley and Yosemite National Park in September for a holiday. I am looking for a venue (preferably in Yosemite), where I can fish for a day and also hire some tackle and maybe a guide? Can anyone help me, I don’t think I can take ten days without a day fishing!! Thanks for the help . . .

Response:

I am coming to San Francisco, the Nappa Valley and Yosemite National Park in September for a holiday. I am looking for a venue (preferably in Yosemite), where I can fish for a day and also hire some tackle and maybe a guide? Can anyone help me, I don’t think I can take ten days without a day fishing!! Thanks for the help . . .

 You can fish the river right in Yosemite Valley for trout.  There are 1 day a licenses available for about $7 as well as a 7 day license, non-residence licenses are expensive (hell, the residense license is expensive – $27.50). There are lakes in the Upper areas of Yosemite also, they fish very well with a wax worm.  The Merced River, in the valley is good with both fly and worms. Don’t know of guides in Yosemite.  Just North of the Napa Valley is Clear Lake, is a great Bass lake, guides are available, Just to the East of the lower end of Napa is Lake Berryessa, trout and bass, guides available.  In San Francisco, you can go out on the party (head) boats for both Salmon and Rockfish, they have rental tackle available ($6) the license is required and the cost of the trip is about $35 for Rockfish (3-20#) fish and $50 for Salmon. See these URL’s for additional info.  http://usafishing.com/fleet.html  http://www.anglernet.com/web/selectlk.htm  http://www.fishsniffer.com/  http://www.dfg.ca.gov/ Regards, Bill — Opinions expressed are mine not necessarily my employers. All other standard disclaimers apply! Remove nospam. To email reply.

Response:

You could fish in a lake that has a world record largemouth in it.  That lake would be Spring Lake in Sonoma County.   Take a Rainbow Trout lure and you may get your picture on the cover of a magazine.  There is for sure at least one 24 pounder in the lake. P.S.  If anyone is thinking of emailing me and telling me that I don’t know what I am talking about, you better get your facts straight first then come off of the porch.  Just a friendly word of warning. BigDaddy

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Boy, Big Daddy…the "friendly word of warning" sounds like an invitation to flaming for some real bummers out there.   Let’s hope not.  But uh, could you share some information?  Has there been a lot of hoopla?  Do you plan to go for it? Injun Jim USN (Ret.) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You could fish in a lake that has a world record largemouth in it.  That lake would be Spring Lake in Sonoma County.   Take a Rainbow Trout lure and you may get your picture on the cover of a magazine.  There is for sure at least one 24 pounder in the lake. P.S.  If anyone is thinking of emailing me and telling me that I don’t know what I am talking about, you better get your facts straight first then come off of the porch.  Just a friendly word of warning. BigDaddy

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Injun, I only say that because the last time I told the story on this group I got email from nuts all over the US telling me that I was crazy and that I had lost my grip on reality.  Even some people threatened me.  You would think that all fishermen would be interested to know about what would be the new world record but I soon found out that was not the case.  I thought that I was doing a service to the people in this group by telling what I was able to find out through about 2 weeks worth of investigation.  Many people did not see my information in the same way. That is why I am reluctant to tell it again, because inevitably I will get the same batch of emails that I did before.  It is the actions of a few idiots that keep people like me who are truly interested in very large Bass from publicly talking about what I have learned. Sorry for the ranting but I felt it necessary to explain.  I am not at all inviting anyone to flame me.  It was just merely a precaution. I will be glad to privately email you what I was able to learn and send a picture also if you are interested let me know. Thanks and Keep your worm wet. BigDaddy

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Big Daddy, I thought that I was doing a service to the people in this group by telling what I was able to find out through about 2 weeks worth of investigation.  Many people did not see my information in the same way.

What ever happened with that record.  Last I knew they were checking the bathroom scales.  It was obvious they weren’t going to let the record stand, but I never heard anything official. Richard

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Question:

 ANY ONE FLY FISHING THERE LATLEY I’LL BE 6/8/96 TO 6/14/96  ANY SPECIAL TRICKS. OR FLY’S, DRY OR WET. BY THE WAY IT’S  IN NORTHERN PLUMAS NATIONAL FOREST. –

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 ANY ONE FLY FISHING THERE LATLEY I’LL BE 6/8/96 TO 6/14/96  ANY SPECIAL TRICKS. OR FLY’S, DRY OR WET. BY THE WAY IT’S  IN NORTHERN PLUMAS NATIONAL FOREST.

Response:

ANY ONE FLY FISHING THERE LATLEY I’LL BE 6/8/96 TO 6/14/96 ANY SPECIAL TRICKS. OR FLY’S, DRY OR WET. BY THE WAY IT’S IN NORTHERN PLUMAS NATIONAL FOREST.

Charlie Smith, the local tier and fly fisherman at Buck’s Lake, uses a Deer Hair Fly ( Humpy ) and the Rio Grand King dry fly in the streams.  He uses an Olive Wooly Worm in the lakes.  I would also have some #14/16 Adams Paraduns for the lakes. William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA

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Question:

I t is good to see that at least one craft/profession has proven resitant to the mechanization of our society. A fly still bears the indelible signature of the tier. It is too bad that so many of our flies are signed by tiers from third world nations making a pitiful wage who have no hope whatever of legally using the flies they tie. A.J.Thramer Bamboo rod craftsman

I would guess that 90% of the flies purchased in the USA are tied overseas.  If I had to depend on US tiers to supply my store I would have closed up about 10 years ago.  I hope no one will take offense to that statement. Our preseason order with Umpqua Feather Merchants is for 20 thousand dozen flies.  We then fill in the rest of the year depending on how it goes. We also buy some specialty flies from  a half-dozen other sources. They are US tiers. I would love to have all my flies tied by Al Troth, Bob Quigley and Dave Whitlock, but that is impossible. In California, good imported trout flies tied on high quality Japanese hooks, sell retail for $1.75 each.  I love to have people take our fly tieing classes because afterwards they will never complane about the price of flies. I thought about deleting this rather than posting it, but after reading it about 6 times I decided that it was very factual. I started selling flies in a very good sporting goods store thirty years ago. We had Dan Bailey’s US tied flies and Cortland imported flies from Kenya. A lot of people would not be going fly fishing if we didn’t have imported flies. William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA

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Hi Jim, Didn’t know you’d become a tackle dealer too. I need a jungle cock cape. Stripers are running in the Georges, Later, Bob Olmsted

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The situation has not improved since you studied it. I am a retired school teacher augmenting my pension by tying flies professionally. I tied for about 10 years before retiring so I could afford to teach. The $30,000 would be reachable. A.K. Best claimed to tie 3,000 dozen/year and I think that is a reasonable number. I like to fish too much to reach that number. The flies tied overseas vary in quality but the good ones are definitely fishable. But when one supplier plans on selling 750,000 dozen this year, it shows a real demand for tyers. I think the best route for local tyers is to custom tie for shops or individual fishermen/fisherwomen/fisherkids. Most of my tying is for one shop and is for patterns not covered by the big boys. I think the Vic’s Fly-By-Night Too much time spent tying Not enough fishing

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The situation has not improved since you studied it. I am a retired school teacher augmenting my pension by tying flies professionally. I tied for about 10 years before retiring so I could afford to teach. The $30,000 would be reachable. A.K. Best claimed to tie 3,000 dozen/year and I think that is a reasonable number. I like to fish too much to reach that number. The flies tied overseas vary in quality but the good ones are definitely fishable. But when one supplier plans on selling 750,000 dozen this year, it shows a real demand for tyers. I think the best route for local tyers is to custom tie for shops or individual fishermen/fisherwomen/fisherkids. Most of my tying is for one shop and is for patterns not covered by the big boys. I think the Vic’s Fly-By-Night Too much time spent tying Not enough fishing

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What I would *really* like to see is a machine-tied fly in several sizes using natural materials. I promise to be awestruck if it has upright wings and a split tail. Now that would be something to hoot about! — Ken Clark Ft. Lupton, CO

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It’s really amazing the number of customers that think flies are tied by a machine.  Of course (most of) these are the spouses of fly fishermen coming in to buy a gift.  I had always thought like you – I would like to see THAT machine! Sandy Lockleer Creekside Fly Shop, Salem, Oregon http://www.halcyon.com/flyshop/

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Hi Ken. I saw an ad for hand tied flies and wondered if there was any other way? Silly header really! A machine dextrous enough to tie flies really would be something. Mind you judging by some of the flies that are tied, the inventor of such a machine would make a packet.                                              Tight lines. Dave T. What I would *really* like to see is a machine-tied fly in several sizes using natural materials. I promise to be awestruck if it has upright wings and a split tail. Now that would be something to hoot about!

– dave tait

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I had always thought like you – I would like to see THAT machine!

     Especially the one that does the wings on Jock Scotts.

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I t is good to see that at least one craft/profession has proven resitant to the mechanization of our society. A fly still bears the indelible signature of the tier. It is too bad that so many of our flies are signed by tiers from third world nations making a pitiful wage who have no hope whatever of legally using the flies they tie. A.J.Thramer Bamboo rod craftsman

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I totally agree with this statement. As a former pro tyer I was and still am recieving offers from Kenyans who would like to supply me with trout flies at a fraction of the cost of UK flies. I refused such offers however some of my conterpartarts took up the cheap fly challenge and import tens of thousands of flies per year. These so called fly tyers then sell flies tied by others as their own produce. I look forward to reading of the first test case in the UK of a fly tyer being prosecuted under the trades description act.                                  Dave Tait. You’ve matched the hatch but can you catch the catch? writes I t is good to see that at least one craft/profession has proven resitant to the mechanization of our society. A fly still bears the indelible signature of the tier. It is too bad that so many of our flies are signed by tiers from third world nations making a pitiful wage who have no hope whatever of legally using the flies they tie. A.J.Thramer Bamboo rod craftsman

– dave tait

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A.J writes: It is good to see that at least one

craft/profession has proven resitant to the mechanization of our society. A fly still bears the indelible signature of the tier. It is too bad that so many of our flies are signed by tiers from third world nations making a pitiful wage who have no hope whatever of legally using the flies they tie. I agree mostly with your sentiments. "Hand-tied" is no assurance of quality, per se, however and there are some truly fine flies flies coming in from overseas. If there were not such a large market for them, they wouldn’t be in the shops. Being an advocate of free market economics, I cannot criticize the fact of imports meeting market demands but it would be interesting to learn whether overseas fly manufacturers may be creating opportunities for some individuals that may not otherwise have existed before. Are their wages "pitiful" compared to their local economies? Can domestic tyers supply demand? Quien sabe? — Ken Clark Ft. Lupton, CO

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I cannot verify that the wages paid are different than the prevailing in their area. I suspect that it is an opportunity that the tiers would not have if the fly factories were not there. I can shed some light on the plight of the tier/shop owner.  Many of the tiers have always tended to be unreliable, this lead to unreliable supply. This is obviously a major problem for a commodity as seasonal as flies. A tyer who wants to be a reliable supplier to a shop has a tough road ahead until he can prove himself IF he is given a chance. The point of it being that the overseas suppliers have not competed on a cost basis but on a supply basis. A.J.Thramer

Response:

A.J writes: It is good to see that at least one craft/profession has proven resitant to the mechanization of our society. A fly still bears the indelible signature of the tier. It is too bad that so many of our flies are signed by tiers from third world nations making a pitiful wage who have no hope whatever of legally using the flies they tie.

In fact, tiers in Third World countries often make relatively decent wages, compared to those they