Question:

This is to all those who have fished or want to fish in Nordic countries (Finland, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Iceland) Feel free to join and chat and share your experiences or ask questions! How to sign in? See below. -mm- Hello, Welcome to the NordicFlyfishing group at Yahoo! Groups, a free, easy-to-use email group service.  Please take a moment to review this message. To start sending messages to members of this group, simply send email to If you do not wish to belong to NordicFlyfishing, you may unsubscribe by sending an email to You may also visit the Yahoo! Groups web site to modify your subscriptions: http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups Regards, Moderator, NordicFlyfishing

Response:

This is to all those who have fished or want to fish in Nordic countries (Finland, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Iceland) Feel free to join and chat and share your experiences or ask questions! How to sign in? See below. -mm- Hello, Welcome to the NordicFlyfishing group at Yahoo! Groups, a free, easy-to-use email group service.  Please take a moment to review this message. Sign in at  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NordicFlugfiske To start sending messages to members of this group, simply send email to If you do not wish to belong to NordicFlyfishing, you may unsubscribe by sending an email to You may also visit the Yahoo! Groups web site to modify your subscriptions: http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups Regards, Moderator, NordicFlyfishing

Response:

Question:

finer tippets and different flies till ya get it figured out…..have the local shop recommend a fly or two.

And that would be Tulpehocken Creek Outfitters in West Reading.   Helpful, good guys in my limited experience there.    (On W. Penn Ave.?  Tom?) Joe F.

Response:

One of the biggest problems i see are the fish going right up to the fly and kind of nosing it and turning around.  Well  not to keep yammering on and on i’ll close  here and thanks in advance for any and all info. minkaz

As a newbie you will want to get some basics down and have confidence they are working for you.  I suggest you switch to a #14 Royal Wulff dry on a 5X tippet.  If you are using a tapered leader get one which goes down to 5X.  IF you have plenty of casting room get your line into the air and false cast letting out a little line as you go until you get 30 ft. or so out then lay it on the water.  Add power to your strokes as you add line.  Finesse and control will come with practice. Make sure to hold the line in your opposit hand and running over your rod hand index finger.  Watch the fly and at the strike set the hook with the LINE hand and not the rod.  Tightening up on the rod with the index finger at the same time also gives you a quicker set response. DO NOT TAKE YOUR EYES OFF THE FLY NOR DROP THE LINE!  This is important for a newbie to get used to the strike response. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

Response:

: Are you hauling or just casting?  If you’re double hauling and only getting 20 : feet, you do have a problem.  If you are just "flipping" the line, learn to : haul. To get past 20′ you *do not* need to learn to haul!

Um, I didn’t say you did, _but_ to get (long) distance, you *do* need to learn to haul, and it especially important with "basic" equipment (one can do a lot of things if one has no regard for equipment), so they may as well learn now.  That said, the poster gave very little info, but _seemed_ to want distance – "Any tips on increasing distance?"  IMO, yes – learn to haul.  If you disagree, you’re wrong, but I’ll agree to disagree.  Also, learning to haul will, IMO, help with casting/timing/"feeling" in an all-around fashion, but that _is_ JMO. TC, R

Response:

Goldens?  In NE PA?  Um……no, I don’t think so.  You might want to have another look at your field guide. The fish commission here has an excellent stocking program.. They release 50 or 60 goldens in this area as trophy fish each year.  It is true however that we have no natural goldens.

Wow this guy’s pretty good – way to keep your cool minkaz. I’m more concerned with getting a good presentation at this point than distance.

Good man! Regards, Jeff

Response:

I’m was casting about 20 ‘ of fly line.

So that’s roughly a 30′ cast. You can catch a lot of fish with that, as long as the surface isn’t real smooth or the trout wary. Regards, Jeff

Response:

Um, I didn’t say you did, _but_ to get (long) distance, you *do* need to learn to haul, and it especially important with "basic" equipment (one can do a lot of things if one has no regard for equipment), so they may as well learn now.  That said, the poster gave very little info, but _seemed_ to want distance – "Any tips on increasing distance?"  IMO, yes – learn to haul.  If you disagree, you’re wrong, but I’ll agree to disagree.  Also, learning to haul will, IMO, help with casting/timing/"feeling" in an all-around fashion, but that _is_ JMO.

A cast of 30 feet is more than adequate in most stream situations, especially when fishing dries like the gentleman was describing. ALL anglers can control drag and make more accurate presentations and cast at shorter distances. Few, even experienced anglers, can really control drag and presentation on a stream at distances over this.  Instead of trying for more distance, my advice would be to first learn to: cast accurately within this 30′ distance stalk and wade carefully control drag make a "delicate" presentation control the line make reasonable fly selections Willi

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : Are you hauling or just casting?  If you’re double hauling and only getting 20 : feet, you do have a problem.  If you are just "flipping" the line, learn to : haul. To get past 20′ you *do not* need to learn to haul! Um, I didn’t say you did, _but_ to get (long) distance, you *do* need to learn to haul, and it especially important with "basic" equipment (one can do a lot of things if one has no regard for equipment), so they may as well learn now.  That said, the poster gave very little info, but _seemed_ to want distance – "Any tips on increasing distance?"  IMO, yes – learn to haul.  If you disagree, you’re wrong, but I’ll agree to disagree.  Also, learning to haul will, IMO, help with casting/timing/"feeling" in an all-around fashion, but that _is_ JMO. TC, R

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Um, I didn’t say you did, _but_ to get (long) distance, you *do* need to learn to haul, and it especially important with "basic" equipment (one can do a lot of things if one has no regard for equipment), so they may as well learn now.  That said, the poster gave very little info, but _seemed_ to want distance – "Any tips on increasing distance?"  IMO, yes – learn to haul.  If you disagree, you’re wrong, but I’ll agree to disagree.  Also, learning to haul will, IMO, help with casting/timing/"feeling" in an all-around fashion, but that _is_ JMO. A cast of 30 feet is more than adequate in most stream situations, especially when fishing dries like the gentleman was describing. ALL anglers can control drag and make more accurate presentations and cast at shorter distances. Few, even experienced anglers, can really control drag and presentation on a stream at distances over this.  Instead of trying for more distance, my advice would be to first learn to: cast accurately within this 30′ distance stalk and wade carefully control drag make a "delicate" presentation control the line make reasonable fly selections

Agreed, somewhat.  Originally, I was simply addressing the distance question, but I do think learning to haul is a needed skill.  I will admit I may have being somewhat presumptive, but I did think by "distance" the poster meant more than going from 20 feet to 30 feet.  Usually when someone on ROFF (especially newbies) brings up distance, they seem to mean "casting tourney" distances, and, IMO, even the lower end of that range is nearly *impossible* (I’d say *_IMPOSSIBLE_*, but I never say that…<G) without a double haul, especially with an novice and a fishing-built rod, much less a vet and a tournament-built rod (which is why they are/were two different rods).  If you care, look up some of my posts for my opinions on the "gotta go long" thinking. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Willi

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Nahhhh.  You go JeffC.  Just let us know how it works out

Hmm, half the shit I get is for complaining to much and not contributing too discussions actually related too fly fishing.  Half the shit I get is for adding to much too fly fishing discussions.  The other half of the shit I get is for being a general wiseass, jackass, or just plane pimply white ass.  I’m sure you’ll understand if I just post what I want to — Regards, Jeff Before you buy.

Response:

As a newbie you will want to get some basics down and have confidence they are working for you.  I suggest you switch to a #14 Royal Wulff dry on a 5X tippet.

But wouldn’t you want to know what kind of water he’s fishing before recommending a fly like that?  All we know so far as that where he’s fishing is: "small creek about 15 feet across.  I found a nice pool that’s is really close to crysal clear."  It could be a smooth surfaced, clear spring creek.  We also know he’s getting a lot of refusals.  Would you recommend the same or different fly for that? — Regards, Jeff Before you buy.

Response:

We also know he’s getting a lot of refusals.

Correction – he’s getting rises but not hooking them – don’t know if they are refusals or not. — Regards, Jeff Before you buy.

Response:

(uninformed snipped) Regards, Jeff

On Eastern streams the RW is an excellent all-a-round searching pattern well suited for small stream use.  His objective here is to "learn the methodology" and take a few fish.  He will get enough takers on the size and fly type recommended to develop the striking technique, have a fly visible enough to watch on the surface to develop his line handling techniques, and a "close enough" match to many hatches in the region this time of year.  Entomology, selective line handling, water reading, and casting improvement will be developed over time with on-water practice. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

Response:

As a newbie you will want to get some basics down and have confidence they are working for you.  I suggest you switch to a #14 Royal Wulff dry on a 5X tippet. But wouldn’t you want to know what kind of water he’s fishing before recommending a fly like that

    i don’t give a damn if you are fishing the lava flow in hawaii, or the runoff from victoria falls.  if there’s a trout in the water, he will come about as close to hitting a rw as anything else. wayno

Response:

Are you casting 20 feet between you and the fly, or 20 feet of flyline? It may not be that you’re jumping the gun, but of course it might  They may be rising to it but not actually taking it in their mouths.  You could try a more sparsely tied fly (for example a thorax or no hackle instead of a Wullf style, if the water is fairly flat).  Or you could just try a size or 2 smaller.  Or you could try a longer, lighter tippet. Regards, Jeff

Response:

You MAY be setting the hook to fast.  Then again you may not be fast enough.  Fish will spit anything that doesn’t feel right.  Timing is critical. If you’re getting fish to rise to your fly you don’t need to cast any further.  Don’t worry about it. Distance will come with practice. Goldens?  In NE PA?  Um……no, I don’t think so.  You might want to have another look at your field guide.

The fish commission here has an excellent stocking program.. They release 50 or 60 goldens in this area as trophy fish each year.  It is true however that we have no natural goldens.  I was just out for a little bit this morning and the casting is coming along due to some really good advice.  I’m more concerned with getting a good presentation at this point than distance.   just looking ahead for some pond/lake fishing but for now i’m happy as a clam at the creeks and streams in the area..   thank again for all the info minkaz

Response:

Are you casting 20 feet between you and the fly, or 20 feet of flyline? It may not be that you’re jumping the gun, but of course it might  They may be rising to it but not actually taking it in their mouths.  You could try a more sparsely tied fly (for example a thorax or no hackle instead of a Wullf style, if the water is fairly flat).  Or you could just try a size or 2 smaller.  Or you could try a longer, lighter tippet. Regards, Jeff

I’m was casting about 20 ‘ of fly line.  i’ve gotten better today though so the distance is coming.. I received some info stating i was probably moving the rod too much and it was the case…   i had a little rainbow on this morning but it spit the hook.  still lots of fun though. be going out later. thanks again minkaz

Response:

Hello all I’ve been reading this newsgroup for a few days and have gotten a wealth of information from it.  I am new to fly fishing and am looking for some advice.  I’ve gotten my cast down pretty good well good for the creek i fish..  I can’t get decent distance but the presentation seems to be not too bad.  Any tips on increasing distance?  I’m only getting about 20 feet now, which is about double what i was getting heheeh. Now for the big question.. I’ve been fishing for trout in a small creek and  i’ve been using dry flies and have gotten a lot of hits.. fishing is good here in NE PA.  However i can’t seem to get a good hookset or any hookset for that matter…. probably me jumping the gun but any advice on this would be appreciated. Equipment i’ve been using is a cheap combo i wanted to try out just to get into it a bit more to see if i liked it before investing a ton of cash.  It’s a pflueger rod 5-6   using a #6 wf flyline and a tapered leader.  whole thing cost me about 35 bucks and i’ve gotten some activity from the trout just can’t seem to land one.   One of the biggest problems i see are the fish going right up to the fly and kind of nosing it and turning around.  Well  not to keep yammering on and on i’ll close  here and thanks in advance for any and all info. minkaz

Response:

Hello all I’ve been reading this newsgroup for a few days and have gotten a wealth of information from it.  I am new to fly fishing and am looking for some advice.  I’ve gotten my cast down pretty good well good for the creek i fish..  I can’t get decent distance but the presentation seems to be not too bad.  Any tips on increasing distance?  I’m only getting about 20 feet now, which is about double what i was getting heheeh.

Are you hauling or just casting?  If you’re double hauling and only getting 20 feet, you do have a problem.  If you are just "flipping" the line, learn to haul. Now for the big question.. I’ve been fishing for trout in a small creek and  i’ve been using dry flies and have gotten a lot of hits.. fishing is good here in NE PA.  However i can’t seem to get a good hookset or any hookset for that matter…. probably me jumping the gun but any advice on this would be appreciated.

1st, sharpen your hooks, then work on your technique – practice, practice, practice. Equipment i’ve been using is a cheap combo i wanted to try out just to get into it a bit more to see if i liked it before investing a ton of cash.  It’s a pflueger rod 5-6   using a #6 wf flyline and a tapered leader.  whole thing cost me about 35 bucks and i’ve gotten some activity from the trout just can’t seem to land one.  

IMO, the cost of the equipment shouldn’t be the deciding factor in catching fish and see above about practice. One of the biggest problems i see are the fish going right up to the fly and kind of nosing it and turning around.  Well  not to keep yammering on and on i’ll close  here and thanks in advance for any and all info.

Then they almost certainly realize something’s up.  Perhaps a further description of your tackle and typical conditions.  What patterns are you using? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -minkaz

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Hello all I’ve been reading this newsgroup for a few days and have gotten a wealth of information from it.  I am new to fly fishing and am looking for some advice.

        ken fortenberry is our on duty newbie advice person this week, minkaz, and it would appear that he is temporarily occupied elsewhere. i am quite certain that he will return shortly with a wealth of information for you.  if he doesn’t show in an hour or so, email me with specific questions and i will do the best i can to be of assistance. wayno         p.s.:  what kind of vehicle do you own?

Response:

Any tips on increasing distance? check out books and videos from the library Equipment I’ve been using is a cheap combo

good for you…money aint the thing…. One of the biggest problems i see are the fish going right up to the fly and kind of nosing it and turning a round. finer tippets and different flies till ya get it figured out…..have the local shop recommend a fly or two. flies, finer tippets and sneaky’s the key….for now anyhow

Response:

Nahhhh.  You go JeffC.  Just let us know how it works out (notwithstanding the Richardson Lady.  For GOD’S sake, don’t make her mad…). Tom – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello all I’ve been reading this newsgroup for a few days and have gotten a wealth of information from it.  I am new to fly fishing and am looking for some advice.         ken fortenberry is our on duty newbie advice person this week, minkaz, and it would appear that he is temporarily occupied elsewhere. i am quite certain that he will return shortly with a wealth of information for you.  if he doesn’t show in an hour or so, email me with specific questions and i will do the best i can to be of assistance. wayno         p.s.:  what kind of vehicle do you own?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Then they almost certainly realize something’s up.  Perhaps a further description of your tackle and typical conditions.  What patterns are you using? typical conditions where i fish are:  small creek about 15 feet across..  I found a nice pool that’s is really close to crysal clear. i’ts over 6.5 feet deep i know due to me being a newbie at rock climbing also lol.   anyway i’ve been seeing lots and lots of trout in the pool and also at the far end of it in the shallows.  i caught a golden there the other day with my ultralight.  patterns?  i have no idea i’ve been tying on so many different flies and just going with what they chase. So far what’s worked best is an ant and anything that has some yellow or brown color in it.   I have had a few bites but the old heart got pounding and i guess i went to set the hook to fast. Hopefully i’ll settle down with that or i’ll be moving into a cardiac care center.  Again thanks for all the replies

You MAY be setting the hook to fast.  Then again you may not be fast enough.  Fish will spit anything that doesn’t feel right.  Timing is critical. If you’re getting fish to rise to your fly you don’t need to cast any further.  Don’t worry about it. Distance will come with practice. Goldens?  In NE PA?  Um……no, I don’t think so.  You might want to have another look at your field guide.

Response:

   ken fortenberry is our on duty newbie advice person this week, minkaz, and it would appear that he is temporarily occupied elsewhere. i am quite certain that he will return shortly with a wealth of information for you.  if he doesn’t show in an hour or so, email me with specific questions and i will do the best i can to be of assistance. wayno    p.s.:  what kind of vehicle do you own?

hehe i drive an old 79 ford f150 pick up that i’m in the process of restoring.. but i’m not a plummer hehehehe

Response:

Then they almost certainly realize something’s up.  Perhaps a further description of your tackle and typical conditions.  What patterns are you using?

typical conditions where i fish are:  small creek about 15 feet across..  I found a nice pool that’s is really close to crysal clear. i’ts over 6.5 feet deep i know due to me being a newbie at rock climbing also lol.   anyway i’ve been seeing lots and lots of trout in the pool and also at the far end of it in the shallows.  i caught a golden there the other day with my ultralight.  patterns?  i have no idea i’ve been tying on so many different flies and just going with what they chase. So far what’s worked best is an ant and anything that has some yellow or brown color in it.   I have had a few bites but the old heart got pounding and i guess i went to set the hook to fast. Hopefully i’ll settle down with that or i’ll be moving into a cardiac care center.  Again thanks for all the replies minkaz

Response:

Question:

No doubt, Chan is the expert. He and Skip Morris have a new book, called Morris and Chan on Fly Fishing Trout Lakes, Frank Amato publications. It is an excellent book, and well worth the investment. It really will improve you lake fishing overall. Another good source on lake and midge fishing is Chan’s video Flyfishing Stillwaters Vol II. You won’t be dissapointed. I had the privledge of Meeting Brian Chan when staying at a lodge in the Kamloops area. He is a fisheries biologist, and came to the lodge to do some assesment and management work. He is quite a nice fellow. Tim Lysyk

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve just learned that a lake I will be going to this spring contains a great chironomid hatch (Thanks Will).  Unfortunately, in my 7 years of FF’ing, I’ve never really been inclined to explore the possibilities of chironomids.   I’ve heard wonderful things about it and now, I have reason to actually make an effort to learn as much as I can about fishing them. I understand that you are basically supposed to just let it drift on a fine long leader with a strike indicator, without retrieving line (am I wrong?). It actually sounds a bit boring…. I have dreadful visions of fishing Well, Ken, you almost have it right.  Most Americans I meet in Canada and here in the states do fish with a bobber and never feel the take.  But the Canadians do it better….floating line (they alternate two rods each with a single fly), let it sink and just work the fly near the bottom finger over finger. Very slowly.  You will feel the take and have a ball.  Look up Brian Chan of Fish B.C. on the web….he often writes about fishing chironomids. Good Luck. Fred

Response:

Mike, Lake fishing here, we regularly get the chance to fish a fourth stage – midge balls. The adults have orgies in the evenings, often during or after hatches. We palmer a grizzly hackle on size 14, 16 or 18 hooks. Like Ernie was saying – The fly imitates the balls of midges clustered together exchanging body fluids.

That’s interesting John. They have ‘balling buzzers’ in Ireland, just as you describe and imitate them with a similar pattern (hook tightly palmered with a grizzle hackle and maybe a red game hackle in the centre of the ‘ball’). Strangely, I have never come across this phenomenon on the English reservoirs. We might not have the species that does this. BTW, sorry guys for my earlier thread coming through in triplicate. I don’t know what’s going on. I only sent it once and it has happened somewhere else, too. Interesting thread, though. Some very informative links. Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

Response:

Lake fishing here, we regularly get the chance to fish a fourth stage – midge balls. The adults have orgies in the evenings, often during or after hatches.

ok…you guys are obviously napping.  time was this would have gotten at least 4 or 5 erudite comments… jeff

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Lake fishing here, we regularly get the chance to fish a fourth stage – midge balls. The adults have orgies in the evenings, often during or after hatches. ok…you guys are obviously napping.  time was this would have gotten at least 4 or 5 erudite comments… jeff

        right you are, jeffie; but a moment such as that, once lost, can never be recaptured.  i put it down to age. wayno

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Hi fellow FF’ers. Can any of you shed some light on chironomids: methods, techniques, leaders

Ken, I’d love to help but I had mine removed years ago. Sorry. Kiyu

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I bought a chironomid when I was in the service, best damn wrist watch I ever had. Ernie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi fellow FF’ers. Can any of you shed some light on chironomids: methods, techniques, leaders Ken,

Response:

I picked up the book The Gilly, a Flyfishers Guide by Alfred Davy when I was in BC.  It was pretty good.  It has a little red sticker that says: national best seller.  I think they have to sell 25 books in Canada before it’s a best seller…  just kidding now, don’t get that Candadian blood all heated up.  Keep yer stick on the ice. Most places in BC they use pretty large flies.  Your standard variety western topwater flies will all work, but the rules are reversed as to size (in MT smaller is usually better).  In BC, larger is usually better.  I didn’t fish chronomids but I heard about the slow bottom and slowly rising to the surface film presentations of large chronomids (size 12 & 10, but it’s been a couple of yrs… I may be wrong there). Lake Louis in Bannf Prov Park is the best mtns in N Am, some say.  You might try and go there if you can. Mike – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Bob Church, Tom Saville and Charles Jardine have all written decent books on this subject.

Response:

Tony, Downunder we have stacks of midge fishing but our midges are all very small (all in the #20s). It’s not uncommon to have a hundred fish in one bay going berserk, gorging on midges every night at the peak of summer. IMO it’s the only time Aussie trout get terribly selective in the flies they take. Midge balls are fun because you get the surface takes and sometimes the trout will really chase them. It’s very hard to fish single emergers or adults – some guys do well with #18 or #20 klinkhammers – but you need much more light to keep track of your fly. Cheers JK

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mike, Lake fishing here, we regularly get the chance to fish a fourth stage – midge balls. The adults have orgies in the evenings, often during or after hatches. We palmer a grizzly hackle on size 14, 16 or 18 hooks. Like Ernie was saying – The fly imitates the balls of midges clustered together exchanging body fluids. That’s interesting John. They have ‘balling buzzers’ in Ireland, just as you describe and imitate them with a similar pattern (hook tightly palmered with a grizzle hackle and maybe a red game hackle in the centre of the ‘ball’). Strangely, I have never come across this phenomenon on the English reservoirs. We might not have the species that does this. BTW, sorry guys for my earlier thread coming through in triplicate. I don’t know what’s going on. I only sent it once and it has happened somewhere else, too. Interesting thread, though. Some very informative links. Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

Response:

I picked up the book The Gilly, a Flyfishers Guide by Alfred Davy when I was in BC.  It was pretty good.  It has a little red sticker that says: national best seller.  I think they have to sell 25 books in Canada before it’s a best seller…  just kidding now, don’t get that Candadian blood all heated up.  Keep yer stick on the ice. Most places in BC they use pretty large flies.  Your standard variety western topwater flies will all work, but the rules are reversed as to size (in MT smaller is usually better).  In BC, larger is usually better.  I didn’t fish chronomids but I heard about the slow bottom and slowly rising to the surface film presentations of large chronomids (size 12 & 10, but it’s been a couple of yrs… I may be wrong there). Lake Louis in Bannf Prov Park is the best mtns in N Am, some say.

We have some pretty large chironomids here in the British Isles. The large black and the orange/silver (Grey Boy) can be imitated on 10 and 12. The famous Irish ‘Duck Fly’ is probably about a 12. We would probably go down to 14 and 16 for the smaller ginger, olive and apple green species. Only a few of the more skilful still water fly fishers of my acquaintance bother with chironomid imitations of 18 or smaller. They can be very successful when they do so, but a 20 hook or anything smaller must be regard as a rarity on a British still water. Mostly, we get away with patterns dressed skinny and short on what most Americans would regard as ‘large’ hooks. From John Knight’s comments, the general run of chironomids on his Australian waters are rather smaller in size than we have here. If anyone is really interested in the entomology of these insects: ‘The Chironomidae – The biology and ecology of non-biting midges’, edited by Armitage, Cranston & Pinder. Pub. Chapman Hall. ISBN 0 412 45260 X Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

Response:

Mike, Lake fishing here, we regularly get the chance to fish a fourth stage – midge balls. The adults have orgies in the evenings, often during or after hatches. We palmer a grizzly hackle on size 14, 16 or 18 hooks. Like Ernie was saying – The fly imitates the balls of midges clustered together exchanging body fluids. The balls move around on the surface and are reminiscent of those drops of water that sometimes can’t break the surface tension. Because of the random movement, you can very slowly retrieve the fly, allowing you to feel when a trout grabs it among all the other rises and balls. Finding good protected  bays with hatches night after night is the trick. Cheers JK

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ken wrote <<  I’ve just learned that a lake I will be going to this spring contains a great chironomid hatch (Thanks Will).  Unfortunately, in my 7 years of FF’ing, I’ve never really been inclined to explore the possibilities of chironomids.   I’ve heard wonderful things about it and now, I have reason to actually make an effort to learn as much as I can about fishing them. Can any of you shed some light on chironomids: methods, techniques, leaders (lengths), strike indicators (distance away from fly)… anything at all. I understand that you are basically supposed to just let it drift on a fine long leader with a strike indicator, without retrieving line (am I wrong?). It actually sounds a bit boring…. I have dreadful visions of fishing chironomids as I see many similarities of float fishing with a worm and a bobber.  Is that true?  (please prove me wrong!) Well Ken, you are partially right.  Fishing chironimids can be REALLY boring and it does resemble fishing with a worm and bobber at

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – it can also provide dynamite fishing at times. There are basically 3 main stages of the midge hatch to be concerned with and I will do my best to butcher it for you. In the first stage I believe it is known as the larva.  The insect resembles a small red worm.  This is often called a blood worm and the fish go nuts for them.  I would make sure to have some flies tied up with red v-rib or thread and some red or pink floss off the end so it flutters in the water.   Fish these on a longer leader and a strike indicator. Phase two is the pupal stage and this is what is referred to as the chironomid stage.  You have to experiement a bit on depth to find where the fish are feeding.  It could be right off the bottom all the way up to the surface film. I would make sure to take a good selection of sizes in black, green and red. The bead head varient also works well and it sinks quickly.  You can fish this pattern on a drift if there is a small breeze or if it is dead still, slowly twitch it. The final phase is the emerger.  The midge is in the surface film drying its wings and shedding its casing.  If you see lots of surface action then the fish are hitting these either on top or just right before they reach the surface.  A Griffith nat is a good pattern for feeding on the surface since it imitates several midges bunched together.  There are also several emerger patterns of chironomids that use a small piece of foam for the wing casing that allow it to float right in the surface film. Good luck and have a great trip. Mike Wilson

Response:

Hi Ken, Check out the site below, Brian Chan is the guru of chironomid fishing from Canada. Confessions of a Chironomid Addict Vic – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi fellow FF’ers. I stumbled upon this newsgroup one evening about a week ago and glanced at a few threads hoping to find some answers to some issues I had regarding new lines for a rod. Now it seems I’m totally absorbed as I check ROFF out almost as often as I check my e-mails.   Really scary stuff.   ROFF’s enlightening and humourous.. what more can you ask for? Can any of you shed some light on chironomids: methods, techniques, leaders (lengths), strike indicators (distance away from fly)… anything at all. I see many similarities of float fishing with a worm and a bobber.  Is that true?  (please prove me wrong!) Hoping you can stir some excitement into a new realm of fly fishing for me. Thanks! Ken.

– http://home.earthlink.net/~vicbrockett

Response:

I’ve just learned that a lake I will be going to this spring contains a great chironomid hatch (Thanks Will).  Unfortunately, in my 7 years of FF’ing, I’ve never really been inclined to explore the possibilities of chironomids.   I’ve heard wonderful things about it and now, I have reason to actually make an effort to learn as much as I can about fishing them. I understand that you are basically supposed to just let it drift on a fine long leader with a strike indicator, without retrieving line (am I wrong?). It actually sounds a bit boring…. I have dreadful visions of fishing

Well, Ken, you almost have it right.  Most Americans I meet in Canada and here in the states do fish with a bobber and never feel the take.  But the Canadians do it better….floating line (they alternate two rods each with a single fly), let it sink and just work the fly near the bottom finger over finger.  Very slowly.  You will feel the take and have a ball.  Look up Brian Chan of Fish B.C. on the web….he often writes about fishing chironomids. Good Luck. Fred

Response:

There are several articles and fly patterns for chironomid fishing at:           http://www.rural.escape.ca/angling_north/fishing/organz.htm – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi fellow FF’ers. Can any of you shed some light on chironomids: methods, techniques, leaders (lengths), strike indicators (distance away from fly)… anything at all. Ken.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi fellow FF’ers. I stumbled upon this newsgroup one evening about a week ago and glanced at a few threads hoping to find some answers to some issues I had regarding new lines for a rod. Now it seems I’m totally absorbed as I check ROFF out almost as often as I check my e-mails.   Really scary stuff.   ROFF’s enlightening and humourous.. what more can you ask for? Anyways,  back to the reason why I’m making a new post. I’ve just learned that a lake I will be going to this spring contains a great chironomid hatch (Thanks Will).  Unfortunately, in my 7 years of FF’ing, I’ve never really been inclined to explore the possibilities of chironomids.   I’ve heard wonderful things about it and now, I have reason to actually make an effort to learn as much as I can about fishing them. Can any of you shed some light on chironomids: methods, techniques, leaders (lengths), strike indicators (distance away from fly)… anything at all. I understand that you are basically supposed to just let it drift on a fine long leader with a strike indicator, without retrieving line (am I wrong?). It actually sounds a bit boring…. I have dreadful visions of fishing chironomids as I see many similarities of float fishing with a worm and a bobber.  Is that true?  (please prove me wrong!) Hoping you can stir some excitement into a new realm of fly fishing for me. Thanks! Ken.

Hi Ken, Midge fishing is a lengthy subject.  Someone else pointed you to Chan’s web page – do read it.  Chan is a real authority on the subject.  I buy his books and read his articles – its good stuff.  I love midge fishing myself .  I don’t find it boring even if it is a bit lazy.  First, lake midges come in a huge size range, from about size 12 to 20+.  I always start with the larger end of the spectrum, or go to the nearest match to whats on the water.  I use a floating line and the largest tippet I can get away with, which is seldom larger than 3x.  4x florocarbon(sp?) is my usual.  Lay out a 40-50 foot cast down wind (to help keep the line straight) and use a very slow hand twist retrieve.  Go to the strike indicator if you need to cast across the wave action and can’t keep your line straight.  (or if you just like the visual indication).  There are many special circumstances that need to be mastered – check the literature for those.  One worthwhile trick I will describe is to use two flies when using the strike indicator.  Make one something like a Rickards Stillwater and the other any of the midge patterns.   When the midges are actively emerging ( and fish are visibly feeding near the surface) most fish will be caught within a couple feet of the surface.  Othertimes you may need to do whats necessary to fish near the bottom. Pickups while using the hand twist retrieve are always interesting, and varied. somtimes you just sense the line is moving and a fish will be there.  Other times fish will hit so hard they snap the tippet before you can react at all. That is part of the fun. Best of luck

Response:

There is nothing mystical or difficult about chironmid fishing at all. Neither is it boring. There two basic methods sinking line or floating – both work much the same. Get the fly to where the fish are feeding and move it in a way to imitate the rising chironmid pupae.The floating technique is most hyped but not necessarily the best.  In really deep water, sinking lines are the way to go – unless you want to spend most of your time waiting for the fly to sink. BC Chironmids are relatively large flies sized # 8 down to #16 cover virtually all sizes. TDC’s, frost bite chironmids, tunkwanamids and a variety of similar patterns all work. Carry a selection of colours – black, olive, brown, red  and green is fairly basic. I’ve done best with a very slow figure 8 retrieve. Retrieve as slowly as you think possible then cut the speed in half! Keep a straight line to the fly and you’ll feel a sublte weight when a fish takes. Actually using an indicator can be fun – since I was a kid I’ve gotten a big thrill watching a bobber dip into the water.. RalphH – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi fellow FF’ers. I stumbled upon this newsgroup one evening about a week ago and glanced at a few threads hoping to find some answers to some issues I had regarding new lines for a rod. Now it seems I’m totally absorbed as I check ROFF out almost as often as I check my e-mails.   Really scary stuff.   ROFF’s enlightening and humourous.. what more can you ask for? Anyways,  back to the reason why I’m making a new post. I’ve just learned that a lake I will be going to this spring contains a great chironomid hatch (Thanks Will).  Unfortunately, in my 7 years of FF’ing, I’ve never really been inclined to explore the possibilities of chironomids.   I’ve heard wonderful things about it and now, I have reason to actually make an effort to learn as much as I can about fishing them. Can any of you shed some light on chironomids: methods, techniques, leaders (lengths), strike indicators (distance away from fly)… anything at all. I understand that you are basically supposed to just let it drift on a fine long leader with a strike indicator, without retrieving line (am I wrong?). It actually sounds a bit boring…. I have dreadful visions of fishing chironomids as I see many similarities of float fishing with a worm and a bobber.  Is that true?  (please prove me wrong!) Hoping you can stir some excitement into a new realm of fly fishing for me. Thanks! Ken.

Response:

Midge info beyond what one could write here can be found at these sites: Entomology http://www.sci.ouc.bc.ca/fwsc/iwalker/intpanis/ Fishing info http://www.rural.escape.ca/angling_north/fishing/organz.htm Hope these help.   Joe — – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly Hi fellow FF’ers. I stumbled upon this newsgroup one evening about a week ago and glanced at a few threads hoping to find some answers to some issues I had regarding new lines for a rod. Now it seems I’m totally absorbed as I check ROFF out almost as often as I check my e-mails.   Really scary stuff.   ROFF’s enlightening and humourous.. what more can you ask for? Anyways,  back to the reason why I’m making a new post. I’ve just learned that a lake I will be going to this spring contains a great chironomid hatch (Thanks Will).  Unfortunately, in my 7 years of FF’ing, I’ve never really been inclined to explore the possibilities of chironomids.   I’ve heard wonderful things about it and now, I have reason to actually make an effort to learn as much as I can about fishing them. Can any of you shed some light on chironomids: methods, techniques, leaders (lengths), strike indicators (distance away from fly)… anything at all. I understand that you are basically supposed to just let it drift on a fine long leader with a strike indicator, without retrieving line (am I wrong?). It actually sounds a bit boring…. I have dreadful visions of fishing chironomids as I see many similarities of float fishing with a worm and a bobber.  Is that true?  (please prove me wrong!) Hoping you can stir some excitement into a new realm of fly fishing for me. Thanks! Ken.

Response:

Can any of you shed some light on chironomids: methods, techniques, leaders (lengths), strike indicators (distance away from fly)… anything at all.

Chironomids -non-biting midges- are a huge family of insects that occur just about everywhere and in a wide climatic range. The larval and pupal stages of many chironomid species exist in rivers and still waters. In still waters they are frequently the largest constituent of the invertebrate population and -as such- a major component of the diet of many species of fish. On British reservoirs, certainly, ‘buzzers’ (as they are often called here), are regarded as the most important flies to the imitative fly fisher. There have been countless patterns devised to imitate particularly the pupal form and, to a lesser extent, the larval and winged adult stages. If you want to know more about chironomid fishing, patterns etc., I would suggest you get hold of a British still water fly fishing book. Bob Church, Tom Saville and Charles Jardine have all written decent books on this subject. Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

Response:

Hi Ken,   Chironomid fishing is difficult.  Some tiers tie a fly that resembles a group of midges on the water.  They think it improves the chances that a fish will take the fly in preference to the thousands that are on the water. Ernie

<snip Can any of you shed some light on chironomids: methods, techniques, leaders (lengths), strike indicators (distance away from fly)… anything at all.

<snip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Ken.

Response:

They are just the "nymph" stage of the midge. Here in Colorado these buzzers can be imitated using hooks up to about size 12. They can be very large. (Normal midge pupa are imitated by 18-24 size hooks. Don’t get bored. Fish the buzzer about 3-4 feet below a dry fly. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi fellow FF’ers. I stumbled upon this newsgroup one evening about a week ago and glanced at a few threads hoping to find some answers to some issues I had regarding new lines for a rod. Now it seems I’m totally absorbed as I check ROFF out almost as often as I check my e-mails.   Really scary stuff.   ROFF’s enlightening and humourous.. what more can you ask for? Anyways,  back to the reason why I’m making a new post. I’ve just learned that a lake I will be going to this spring contains a great chironomid hatch (Thanks Will).  Unfortunately, in my 7 years of FF’ing, I’ve never really been inclined to explore the possibilities of chironomids.   I’ve heard wonderful things about it and now, I have reason to actually make an effort to learn as much as I can about fishing them. Can any of you shed some light on chironomids: methods, techniques, leaders (lengths), strike indicators (distance away from fly)… anything at all. I understand that you are basically supposed to just let it drift on a fine long leader with a strike indicator, without retrieving line (am I wrong?). It actually sounds a bit boring…. I have dreadful visions of fishing chironomids as I see many similarities of float fishing with a worm and a bobber.  Is that true?  (please prove me wrong!) Hoping you can stir some excitement into a new realm of fly fishing for me. Thanks! Ken.

Response:

Ken wrote <<  I’ve just learned that a lake I will be going to this spring contains a great chironomid hatch (Thanks Will).  Unfortunately, in my 7 years of FF’ing, I’ve never really been inclined to explore the possibilities of chironomids.   I’ve heard wonderful things about it and now, I have reason to actually make an effort to learn as much as I can about fishing them. Can any of you shed some light on chironomids: methods, techniques, leaders (lengths), strike indicators (distance away from fly)… anything at all. I understand that you are basically supposed to just let it drift on a fine long leader with a strike indicator, without retrieving line (am I wrong?). It actually sounds a bit boring…. I have dreadful visions of fishing chironomids as I see many similarities of float fishing with a worm and a bobber.  Is that true?  (please prove me wrong!)

Well Ken, you are partially right.  Fishing chironimids can be REALLY boring it can also provide dynamite fishing at times. There are basically 3 main stages of the midge hatch to be concerned with and I will do my best to butcher it for you.   In the first stage I believe it is known as the larva.  The insect resembles a small red worm.  This is often called a blood worm and the fish go nuts for them.  I would make sure to have some flies tied up with red v-rib or thread and some red or pink floss off the end so it flutters in the water.   Fish these on a longer leader and a strike indicator. Phase two is the pupal stage and this is what is referred to as the chironomid stage.  You have to experiement a bit on depth to find where the fish are feeding.  It could be right off the bottom all the way up to the surface film. I would make sure to take a good selection of sizes in black, green and red. The bead head varient also works well and it sinks quickly.  You can fish this pattern on a drift if there is a small breeze or if it is dead still, slowly twitch it. The final phase is the emerger.  The midge is in the surface film drying its wings and shedding its casing.  If you see lots of surface action then the fish are hitting these either on top or just right before they reach the surface.  A Griffith nat is a good pattern for feeding on the surface since it imitates several midges bunched together.  There are also several emerger patterns of chironomids that use a small piece of foam for the wing casing that allow it to float right in the surface film. Good luck and have a great trip. Mike Wilson

Response:

Hi fellow FF’ers. I stumbled upon this newsgroup one evening about a week ago and glanced at a few threads hoping to find some answers to some issues I had regarding new lines for a rod. Now it seems I’m totally absorbed as I check ROFF out almost as often as I check my e-mails.   Really scary stuff.   ROFF’s enlightening and humourous.. what more can you ask for? Anyways,  back to the reason why I’m making a new post. I’ve just learned that a lake I will be going to this spring contains a great chironomid hatch (Thanks Will).  Unfortunately, in my 7 years of FF’ing, I’ve never really been inclined to explore the possibilities of chironomids.   I’ve heard wonderful things about it and now, I have reason to actually make an effort to learn as much as I can about fishing them. Can any of you shed some light on chironomids: methods, techniques, leaders (lengths), strike indicators (distance away from fly)… anything at all. I understand that you are basically supposed to just let it drift on a fine long leader with a strike indicator, without retrieving line (am I wrong?). It actually sounds a bit boring…. I have dreadful visions of fishing chironomids as I see many similarities of float fishing with a worm and a bobber.  Is that true?  (please prove me wrong!) Hoping you can stir some excitement into a new realm of fly fishing for me. Thanks! Ken.

Response:

Hi fellow FF’ers. I stumbled upon this newsgroup one evening about a week ago and glanced at a few threads hoping to find some answers to some issues I had regarding new lines for a rod. Now it seems I’m totally absorbed as I check ROFF out almost as often as I check my e-mails.   Really scary stuff.   ROFF’s enlightening and humourous.. what more can you ask for?

        well, it’s obvious that if you don’t already need psychiatric help, you soon will.  but if you’re (often spelled "your" by the dumbasses in this outfit) going to stay for a while, kindly adopt a handle that will distinguish your "ken-ness" from that of the several other "kens" around here.  if you don’t, you will be mystified at the hostile response your posts arouse, for no apparent reason. Can any of you shed some light on chironomids: methods, techniques, leaders (lengths), strike indicators (distance away from fly)… anything at all.

        unfortunately, since "chironomids" are simply little bitty ol yankee bugs that you can’t hardly see ( as folks say in rowan county, "they ain’t no bigger than a piss-ant!), and thereby of no interest to a self-respecting flyfisher, i am unable to provide information at the level i normally do. I see many similarities of float fishing with a worm and a bobber.  Is that true?  (please prove me wrong!)

        most folks around here can’t satisfactorily prove that the sun rose this morning. Hoping you can stir some excitement into a new realm of fly fishing for me.

        i know an ol boy from down in pitt county, name of pamlico jim, who makes excitement an integral part of fly fishing, not to speak of gettin there and comin back.  but he doesn’t know how to type.         your new pal in the old north state,         wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Thanks! Ken.

Response:

Question:

Well, you could use the simple approach and just try to match the bugs on the water with a fly that is close in size and colour.  That will generally work about 90% of the time.  And you don’t need to learn all the entymology either.  All you have to know is that trout eat bugs, and most of the time they eat the kind of bugs that are hatching at the time.  Fly fishing does not have to be technical, but a lot of people tend to try to make it so. Cheers from the wet coast.

Response:

…  And you don’t need to learn all the entymology either.  All you have to know is that trout eat bugs, and most of the time they eat the kind of bugs that are hatching at the time.  Fly fishing does not have to be technical, but a lot of people tend to try to make it so. …

The great beauty of it, and much of the appeal of flyfishing for me, is that you’ve got it exactly right. You can make it as technical as you want… or not. For some it’s rewarding and challenging to do some amateur entomology, others, who catch just as many fish, are content to tie on a fly that looks close enough in size and color without caring much about the latin name of the beast they’re matching. The question though was how to identify hatches and for that I do recommend at least a little bit of aquatic entomology. My favorite book on the subject is the pricey but beautiful classic, _Aquatic Entomology_ by W. Patrick McCafferty. — Ken Fortenberry Illini 2 – Tar Heels 1

Response:

But I have no idea how to identify what’s on the water, nor how to match it with a fly (I’m at the stage where I can’t tell a caddis from a mayfly.)  What;s the best approach to teaching myself?

Some simple small books that you can keep in your vest are the Orvis books: Trout Stream Insects by Dick Pobst (ISBN 1-55821-067-9) The Caddisfly Handbook by Dick Pobst and Carl Richards (ISBN 1-55821-542-5) These two have color photos, recommended artificials, and hatch charts for east and west US to help you narrow down the search. Tight lines, Peter Simonson

Response:

Cheers from the wet coast.

Hm….what an odd place you live in!  ;-)

Response:

Yah, well, when you get rain most of the year, and they call it the "coastal rainforest", it does tend to get a few nicknames.  But, hey, the salmon are coming like gangbusters right now and I have to make a business trip to Calgary.  I’ll have to condescend to fish that large creek they call the Bow and harass a few trout.  Then it’s out to the local streams for the Pinks, Coho and Chinook on the fly.  Cheers from Vancouver, BC, the Wet Coast.

Response:

Question:

Peter: I have the same rod and use TT 6/7. 80 feet overhead cast and 50 feet roll cast are easily made with this combination. Because of the continuous taper of TT, delicate presentation is also easily done. If you need a floating line, I would recommend TT 6/7. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I am new to fly-fishing.  I own a St. Croix Imperial 9′ 5/6 weight travel rod with a Colorado #2 Ross reel.  I wonder if my rod will work well with a 6WF line.  I am thinking about ordering the Cabela’s Prestige 6WF F/S VI (IPS = 6.5-7, with 10′ sinking tip) for shad fishing in California rivers.  I like to hear your opinion on this selection.  Please let me know if you would suggest another line or another setup for this purpose. I also wonder if I should begin learning fly-fishing with a 5 WF line or a 5 DT line.  I have seen a few postings here recommending novice caster learning on a DT line.  I wonder what the reasoning is behind it. BTW, I plan to do most of my fishing in Yosemite National Park. Thanks for all your help. Peter

– Shinji Unno                     Karaoke Party in Seattle, WA, USA? Also a steelhead fly fisher               http://www.sbkaraoke.com

Response:

Hi, I am new to fly-fishing.  I own a St. Croix Imperial 9′ 5/6 weight travel rod with a Colorado #2 Ross reel.  I wonder if my rod will work well with a 6WF line.  I am thinking about ordering the Cabela’s Prestige 6WF F/S VI (IPS = 6.5-7, with 10′ sinking tip) for shad fishing in California rivers.  I like to hear your opinion on this selection.  Please let me know if you would suggest another line or another setup for this purpose. I also wonder if I should begin learning fly-fishing with a 5 WF line or a 5 DT line.  I have seen a few postings here recommending novice caster learning on a DT line.  I wonder what the reasoning is behind it.   BTW, I plan to do most of my fishing in Yosemite National Park. Thanks for all your help. Peter

Response:

Question:

Looking for fragments of arctic fox for fly tying – anyone know where to find it? Jeff Slater

Response:

Looking for fragments of arctic fox for fly tying – anyone know where to find it?

Furriers usually give scraps away free if asked right. Taxidermists usually have scraps too, but are more used to selling them to fly tyers. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

Response:

Looking for fragments of arctic fox for fly tying – anyone know where to find it?

Check with Blue Ribbon Flies in West Yellowstone, Montana.  Phone 406-646-9365. They are probably as likely as anyone I can think to have some.  If you’re lucky they’ll have the tails.                                         Hope this helps,                                                Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools Mt. Shasta Fly Fishing Schools http://www.thegrid.net/flyfish

Response:

Question:

Ok… Phil baby has told me about the billfish tragedy and that maybe I should not eat them.  He has also suggested that sharks should not be eaten, because of the rapes of that industry. Is there anything (except wild fish that I catch myself) that I can still feel good about eating ?   Lobsters ? Better not… Dolphin…? Whoops !!!! Grouper…? Getting thin… Salmon…? Not in this newsgroup, puhlease… Shark, turbot, wahoo, mackeral, cats, specks, reds, cod, perch, ????? Brook Trout !!! Yeah baby ! Plenty O’ Them !! TimW What is becoming of our world ?

Response:

Ok… Phil baby has told me about the billfish tragedy and that maybe I should not eat them.  He has also suggested that sharks should not be eaten, because of the rapes of that industry. Is there anything (except wild fish that I catch myself) that I can still feel good about eating ? TimW What is becoming of our world ?

Hi Tim Yes I do release most of the trout I catch but I do keep a few Mountain White Fish for dinner. I like them cleaned (a good idea), then fill the body cavity with a couple of slices of onion, butter, a small wedge of lemon, and salt/other stuff to taste. Roll all this up in a tin-foil wrapper, place it "near" the coals of a quiet/calm campfire and cook it 8 minutes on the first side and 4 minutes on the second (adjust more or less according to the size of the white fish)OR on a regular grill for the same times. Good Tying & … — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

Response:

Hi Al, The Roaring Fork is a really excellent whitefish river.   It’s funny, but I’ve never just ‘cooked them up’.  I do smoke them though.  This I do only once or twice a year as I think the smoke is not all that healthy to eat.   Charlie Quinton is coming down this weekend from Laramie to fish, so I went scouting last sunday afternoon.  I caught a 22 inch brown on the 3rd cast. Released it and hooked it’s big sister on the next, which got off in the current.  Started catching whiteys after that, big bruiser ones. Did not catch a single bow.  I was really suprised.  I’m not sure if the spawn is over or gearing up to go.   I hiked up the 3 mile trib and saw none.  (I would NOT have fished to them had I…) Might have to try simply ‘cooking one up’.  Thanks. TimW

Response:

: Lobsters ? Better not… : "Lobsters"? Is this because your pals at PETA had a "lobster rescue" last : year (PE)T(A)-Bone? (oops I mean "Moe") Stop.  C’mon now… this has gone on long enough.  Stop.  Really. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

Response:

ld ? Of all the pressing problems in this world, do you really think C&R fishing is an important issue?

Obviously not! It’s pedantic nonsense! Ralph H

Response:

Is there anything (except wild fish that I catch myself) that I can still feel good about eating ? TimW

you can eat all the BC Pink salmon you want. They’re delicious, easy to catch and all the ones in the fish shop are wild … and relatively cheap. Ralph H

Response:

When I want fish to eat, I go to a small local lake which is heavily stocked.  It’s fun to catch even stupid fish.  I still get away from the grind.  And I feel just fine about keeping what I catch, since I paid for it to be put there for me…a lot like a visit to the supermarket except you don’t have to keep unhooking bag boys from your backcast. — Laboratory for Applied Logic    Dept. of Computer Science University of Idaho             www: http://www.cs.uidaho.edu/~foster —–BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK—– Version: 2.6.2 mQCNAzDtvLEAAAEEAKAC21G2Be0K0DMgjLpxrwLmsYfCz8rWcfgyABjr3Ryfk1dO nV7fFFpUF3xohR7die+/B2V9oqRQzTLeSF2ECKlsTY/yUyw2kn+P2ju1umh4Fwzd cVTvc+H69q1+Ft3kmw/PE0Pan+g0PUGGJ43stw3q4OgBHdixbRd/f9giJFDxAAUR tCZKYW1lcyBBLiBGb3N0ZXIgPGZvc3RlckBjcy51aWRhaG8uZWR1PokAlQMFEDIR FaeEvoC3uR1YOQEBOlAEAKIGMgrGku99CVdMKNvme4F2diQBFiDtL7Nyz0c9wVK5 QMQinayA4za6hcJRvFZU663JPjegRxbbjoUkiUTs2G+BXMSM7WI+raywqlBd+dQx zZTMkEzpYeuuyci4aKAvmk7PGuJGw5kRWUbMSdSNiGRWqo6CoW74M2kGsKuSA6ME iQCVAwUQMPxF4Rd/f9giJFDxAQEWsAP/YAW5FZwP/cwQ0LeokwL86vWrGSeOQrtS /5MN/Ysc85gYcFsb0/Ja5dDyh/QN34ljB/+3OU71iTWzXNN2KR+uJqTbUVbRsKiT EMiEDebKmlkhkNZUD0LK8Nge4/kiLU2QG+hxpvzXcnMMtkD7SJU3mx5sZv3NJdHh lrjuGWuId48= =G/K7 —–END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK—–

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(Al and Tim are talking about eating whitefish) Yeah, you know, I think I’ll try some this year myself. One question, though:  Have either of you ever noticed a difference in eatin’ quality between fish caught at different times of the year?  I hear folks up in Wa. go after them in the winter but not so much in the summer.  Why? I did keep a 19 incher a few years back during the summer, froze it, and then tried to eat it later but when it thawed it was just a bag of goo… Any idea if that was from the freezing, or just because it was a summer fish? —- A sign of what’s becoming of our world? – the new Oregon regs has a list of waters growing fish that are not safe to eat, basically.  It’s a new section Dave DeLacey Corvallis, Or.

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Hi Al, .  I caught a 22 inch brown on the 3rd cast. Released it and hooked it’s big sister on the next, which got off in the current.  . TimW OH MY GOD! WHO EVER WOULD HAVE THOUGHT IT POSSIBLE?

I was, uh, hunting whitefish at the time I *accidentally* caught this magnificent wild fish.   Plus, uh, my Grill_Lux II Pro-Sports Model Outdoor 145K BTU with the Smoker attachment and Bean spinner only has a 20 inch opening. TimW [Damn !!! I meant to send this private email to Al...]

Response:

Stop.  C’mon now… this has gone on long enough.  Stop.  Really. — Rick

Yeah: 1) we all catch fish; 2) almost all of us like to take a fish home for supper (any disagreement there0 3) some of see this as an essential part of the support; they are entitled    to their opinion and should be allowed to practice this aspect of the    pursuit 4) we all agree that is necessary to release fish for a variety of reasons 5) we all agree that a lot of excellent waters are over fished and have too    much angling pressure. combine that with a lot of c&r and many report    the fish and the fishing suffer. 6) some primarily c&r anglers catch and release slake their fish lust to      excess. 7) given 5 & 6 (and a variety of other issues) angling ethics and regulation    must continue to evolve to preserve the sport. So maybe we can agree on some fundamentals and end this? Can even the prophet(s) among us agree on this? Ralph H

Response:

Hi Al, .  I caught a 22 inch brown on the 3rd cast. Released it and hooked it’s big sister on the next, which got off in the current.  . TimW

OH MY GOD! WHO EVER WOULD HAVE THOUGHT IT POSSIBLE? Ralph H 8^)

Response:

  I have heard they are good smoked, but never have been able to keep them lit. No good will become a fellow who smokes a whitefish. Spinolio

Response:

Is there anything (except wild fish that I catch myself) that I can still feel good about eating ? Lobsters ? Better not… "Lobsters"? Is this because your pals at PETA had a "lobster rescue" last year (PE)T(A)-Bone? (oops I mean "Moe")

Actually, yes. I believe that they did highlight the scientific communities findings that the number of spiny lobsters making the migration has declined in devastating numbers and noone is quite sure why.  This is a huge disaster that any lover of wildlife (which you claim to be) should be interested in. [rest of (PE)T(A)-Bone's, oops "Moe's", stupid list snipped]

How can a list be ’stupid’ ? It is just a list, eh… What is becoming of our world ? Of all the pressing problems in this world, do you really think C&R fishing is an important issue? Besides with annoying AR-loons like yourself, that is.

Uh…excuse me Doug Mackenzie, eh…but if I see pure C&R as the only handhold PETA will need to bring sportfishing down crashing around us, well then it does rank up there as pretty significant in this NG.  But, I guess after a couple of Molsons the ‘Loomis Vs. Sage’ thread would seem pretty damned important, eh ? TimW

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Al, .  I caught a 22 inch brown on the 3rd cast. Released it and hooked it’s big sister on the next, which got off in the current.  . TimW OH MY GOD! WHO EVER WOULD HAVE THOUGHT IT POSSIBLE? I was, uh, hunting whitefish at the time I *accidentally* caught this magnificent wild fish.   Plus, uh, my Grill_Lux II Pro-Sports Model Outdoor 145K BTU with the Smoker attachment and Bean spinner only has a 20 inch opening. TimW [Damn !!! I meant to send this private email to Al...]

ROTFL! What a sport! Ralph H

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OH MY GOD! WHO EVER WOULD HAVE THOUGHT IT POSSIBLE? I was, uh, hunting whitefish at the time I *accidentally* caught this magnificent wild fish.   Plus, uh, my Grill_Lux II Pro-Sports Model Outdoor 145K BTU with the Smoker attachment and Bean spinner only has a 20 inch opening. TimW [Damn !!! I meant to send this private email to Al...]

I’ve looked high and low for one of them bean spinners.  Where’d you find yours? Mike

Response:

  I have heard they are good smoked, but never have been able to keep them lit. No good will become a fellow who smokes a whitefish.

…the tears are rolling down my cheeks…you are a sick and funny man steve… TimW

Response:

(Al and Tim are talking about eating whitefish) Yeah, you know, I think I’ll try some this year myself. One question, though:  Have either of you ever noticed a difference in eatin’ quality between fish caught at different times of the year?  I hear folks up in Wa. go after them in the winter but not so much in the summer.  Why?

Definately, but it depends on the situation.  The poor trout suffer through long winters in some places and are in poor condition for fighten’ or eatin’ in the spring.  The same lake might have pike that are perfect at iceout, from eating the trout.  I think that browns suffer from competetion from the rainbows and whitefish here in the winter and are in better shape by the end of summer.  High mountain areas, the fish are in the best shape in the middle of summer. TimW

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – OH MY GOD! WHO EVER WOULD HAVE THOUGHT IT POSSIBLE? I was, uh, hunting whitefish at the time I *accidentally* caught this magnificent wild fish. Plus, uh, my Grill_Lux II Pro-Sports Model Outdoor 145K BTU with the Smoker attachment and Bean spinner only has a 20 inch opening. TimW [Damn !!! I meant to send this private email to Al...] I’ve looked high and low for one of them bean spinners.  Where’d you find yours?

In a pretty dark corner Mike…. 8^) TimW

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – OH MY GOD! WHO EVER WOULD HAVE THOUGHT IT POSSIBLE? I was, uh, hunting whitefish at the time I *accidentally* caught this magnificent wild fish. Plus, uh, my Grill_Lux II Pro-Sports Model Outdoor 145K BTU with the Smoker attachment and Bean spinner only has a 20 inch opening. TimW [Damn !!! I meant to send this private email to Al...]

So.  My conspiracy theory that Ralph Cutter and George Gherke are one and the same person, and that this new Moe person has kidnapped and is posing as T-bone is off base hunh?  Would the real T-bone admit to C&R and using Orvis in his lifetime, let alone in the same week!?  Hunh?  I thought not.  Case closed.  Next week I’ll discuss the black Orvis Edition Ford Explorers and what they’re doing cruising around our best tailwaters at night.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – OH MY GOD! WHO EVER WOULD HAVE THOUGHT IT POSSIBLE? I was, uh, hunting whitefish at the time I *accidentally* caught this magnificent wild fish. Plus, uh, my Grill_Lux II Pro-Sports Model Outdoor 145K BTU with the Smoker attachment and Bean spinner only has a 20 inch opening. TimW [Damn !!! I meant to send this private email to Al...] So.  My conspiracy theory that Ralph Cutter and George Gherke are one and the same person, and that this new Moe person has kidnapped and is posing as T-bone is off base hunh?  Would the real T-bone admit to C&R and using Orvis in his lifetime, let alone in the same week!?  Hunh?  I thought not.  Case closed.  Next week I’ll discuss the black Orvis Edition Ford Explorers and what they’re doing cruising around our best tailwaters at night.

You forgot about the barking dogs, Sherlock… TimW

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So.  My conspiracy theory that Ralph Cutter and George Gherke are one and the same person, and that this new Moe person has kidnapped and is posing as T-bone is off base hunh?  Would the real T-bone admit to C&R and using Orvis in his lifetime, let alone in the same week!?  Hunh?  I thought not.  Case closed.  Next week I’ll discuss the black Orvis Edition Ford Explorers and what they’re doing cruising around our best tailwaters at night.

WARNING: If you do! They might have to kill you! BE CAREFUL, I know who’s driving that Ford..and his dog doesn’t like people either..;) SWEET DREAMS… ..NAK

Response:

  I have heard they are good smoked, but never have been able to keep them lit. No good will become a fellow who smokes a whitefish. …the tears are rolling down my cheeks…you are a sick and funny man steve… TimW

You don’t inhale do you Moe? Michael Smith

Response:

Is there anything (except wild fish that I catch myself) that I can still feel good about eating ? Yes I do release most of the trout I catch but I do keep a few Mountain White Fish for dinner. I like them cleaned (a good idea), then fill the  ^^^^^ ^^^^

I have heard they are good smoked, but never have been able to keep them lit. -Burton

Response:

  I have heard they are good smoked, but never have been able to keep them lit. No good will become a fellow who smokes a whitefish. Spinolio

Guess I’m lucky they wouldn’t stay lit! -Burton — L. Burton Hawley           2330 NW Hummingbird Corvallis, OR

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Question:

The latest edition of FF (December!) that arrived today has a lengthy discussion of the situation with  the Armstrong Spring Creek and the Armstrong and Dupuy ranches.  The Randolph column features some interesting pictures and a failed attempt at being unbiased in reporting the options under consideration.  At least the column did report that the survey that is being conducted on www.flyshop.com is running 76% AGAINST restoring the spring creek. Lyman Lyman G. Hughes Dallas, TX Ennis, MT

Response:

The latest edition of FF (December!) that arrived today has a lengthy discussion of the situation with  the Armstrong Spring Creek and the Armstrong and Dupuy ranches.  The Randolph column features some interesting pictures and a failed attempt at being unbiased in reporting the options under consideration.  At least the column did report that the survey that is being conducted on www.flyshop.com is running 76% AGAINST restoring the spring creek.Hi Lyman,

That’s more or less the oppinion of the people who live in the area as well. — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (97 catalog)

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Question:

I have some very old fishing and fly tying books that I need to have restored and appraised. If anyone knows of a business that does this kind of work I would greatly appreciate any information as to how to contact them.

Response:

I have some very old fishing and fly tying books that I need to have restored and appraised. If anyone knows of a business that does this kind of work I would greatly appreciate any information as to how to contact them.

Where are you located? Jim Benenson Los Alamos, NM "To save your rivers, save your mountains" Emperor Yu of China, circa 1600 BC

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: I have some very old fishing and fly tying books that I need to have restored : and appraised. If anyone knows of a business that does this kind of work I : would greatly appreciate any information as to how to contact them. You might want to take some photographs of the books and describe them in detail and send the letter to Sotheby’s auction house, Fine Books and Manuscript Department in New York City. If they are something very valuable like Isaak Walton first editions or something, they will let you know the value and offer you a chance to sell them. In general, collectors don’t wan’t any ‘restoration’ work, so I would send the letter before you have it done. —

Response:

I have some very old fishing and fly tying books that I need to have restored and appraised. If anyone knows of a business that does this kind of work I

Appraisal is necessary first, so you can decide if (expensive) restoration is justified.  There are few specialized antiquarian fishing book dealers, but small ads in back of (US) Fly Fisherman or (British) Trout and Salmon may allow you to locate one near you.  For bookbinders, consult any big university library:  they both have theses and new journals bound into books and repair old books. Age is important but does not directly correlate with price, cf. also difficulty of conserving books on acidic wood-pulp paper (from late 19th century onwards.) — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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Question:

Tradewinds is a total joke.Do not go on a tuna  trip with these guys. And be darn careful about making sure what kind of fishing you are really in for. The idea of "sport" among these guys is handlining. We took an 18 hour tuna trip with Tradewinds on Monday night. It was the captains first trip for tuna. Ever.They wouldn’t let us fish with rod and reel beacuse they said we would "never land a fish". After trolling from 2:30 AM until 2:30 PM and only catching 4 fish for the whole boat we begged to use a rod and reel for the last hour. You guessed it. 5 minutes and I was into a 20+ fish. The fight brought up more fish and we boated 4 more on the pass. My buddy talked the mate into removing the 150+leader from the hootchie and tie one up with the 50lb pink Ande he had brought along. 10 minutes later he caught the fish of the trip at around 30 lb. To the captains credit he tried hard, and stayed out an extra hour, but handlining is meat fishing, not sport. Maybe run a couple of handlines for those folks who can’t thumb a drag but at least be up front about it. When we made the reservation we asked if it was handlining or rod fishing and were assured that it was rod and reel only.  It seemed that all the boats were running almost exclusively handlines with only the occasional rod. Next time I’m going to charter my own  boat with a couple of other guys so I can use my fly rod!

Response:

Tradewinds is a total joke.Do not go on a tuna  trip with these guys. And be darn careful about making sure what kind of fishing you are really in for. [stuff skipped] To the captains credit he tried hard, and stayed out an extra hour, but handlining is meat fishing, not sport. Maybe run a couple of handlines for those folks who can’t thumb a drag but at least be up front about it. When we made the reservation we asked if it was handlining or rod fishing and were assured that it was rod and reel only.  It seemed that all the boats were running almost exclusively handlines with only the occasional rod.

You thumb the drag on a tuna?  That’s a pretty tough thumb . I had called Newport Tradewinds last week.  They told me that they did do handlining, but would do rod and reel if the customers had equipment, and wanted to do it that way. Are there any party boats or even charters in Oregon that do rod and reel for albacore? -Dave B.

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Why go to Oregon, Washington is having those same albacore.  Try Westport.

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Thanks for the info about the charters out of Newport, Bob.  I gave Tradewinds a call yesterday and they told me thier first tuna trip of the year would be this friday morning … departure time 12:01 a.m.  … an 18 hr. trip!!  They told me that other charter boats have been catching at the rate of ten tuna per passanger at 45 miles. I was telling a co-worker a little while later that the tuna had moved in and he told me that the Oregonian (sports line?) said that the tuna were in to 42 miles.  The SouthWest wind is blowing and has been blowing since Tuesday so that should push the warm water and fish even closer. I then contacted Steve Larkins at Pacific City and he called Trollers Charters in Garibaldi and they said the fish were between 50-55 miles off shore.  That’s close enough!  It is time for some vacation and a couple of tuna trips!! The weather should be turning today with a high pressure starting to build.  That means that the ocean *should* be real nice on Friday so a few of us are going to make our first exploratory trip out to about 50 miles and see if we can score.  One of the advantages to fishing dories is where it will take a charter boat 5-6 hours to get out to the 50 mile area where the tuna are, it will only take us about 1.5-2  hours to go the same distance (depending on who the slowest boat is). Well, at any rate, wish me luck.  By tomorrow at this time (9:00) I hope to be out 30-40 miles and have at least a couple of dozen fish in the boat.  If I do I’ll give you’all a report a week from Monday (I’m off on vacation for at *least* a week as soon as the tuna show within striking distance of P.C.).  If I don’t score I’ll post that here this coming Monday. Sea ya,                                 Fish to Live, Live to Fish                                    ’Fish Assassin’ Mark                                      Pacific City, OR ******* Just an old tech. guy livin’ in a High Tech world ******* – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Call Newport Tradewinds at 1-800-676-7819.  I just talked to the owner, Burt Waddell a couple of days ago and he said the tuna were within 45 miles of the coast, so the long one-day trips have started.  They also have multiple day trips. I’ve fished with these guys in the past and they really work hard to help you catch fish. Good Fishing, Bob says… who is the best charter down there??? I am from Southern CA … but i live in Port Angeles WA. .. Now … Who should I call down there?????

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who is the best charter down there??? I am from Southern CA … but i live in Port Angeles WA. .. Now … Who should I call down there?????

Response:

Call Newport Tradewinds at 1-800-676-7819.  I just talked to the owner, Burt Waddell a couple of days ago and he said the tuna were within 45 miles of the coast, so the long one-day trips have started.  They also have multiple day trips. I’ve fished with these guys in the past and they really work hard to help you catch fish. Good Fishing, Bob says… who is the best charter down there??? I am from Southern CA … but i live in Port Angeles WA. .. Now … Who should I call down there?????

– +  The Anadromous Page at:  http://www.peak.org/~robertr/fishing.html +

Response:

22nd Street Landing turned in the first fish counts that included bluefin tuna yesterday (Wed., 7/26). According to the office manager, the El Dorado got 4 bluefin and 4 yellowtail (among other things) on their daily overnight run while fishing somewhere south of San Clemente Island. 22nd Street can be reached at (310) 832-8304.

Response:

Oregon Tuna News, 7/31/95 Talked to Phil at Hoy Brother Fish Co. yesterday (Sunday, 7/30) and he told me that they unloaded their first tuna troller Saturday.  It was a 3 day trip out of Garibaldi and they fished between 60 and 100 miles off- shore.  When they were headed in they even found a few of the bigger cold water fish in to about 42 miles. The fish seem to be moving closer to shore at the rate of about 20 miles a week.  The Dory fleet out of Pacific City is getting geared up and we should be fishing for tuna within the next 2 weeks. The boat that off-loaded at Hoy Brothers brought in 400 fish for thier 3 day effort.  There were two people on board … the skipper and one deck hand.  Average weight was just a hair over 11 lbs.  The bad news is that the ex-vessel price was only $.65/lb.  Last year when we started fishing tuna we got $1.00/lb and that dropped to $.85 after the market got pretty flooded.  Phil told me he expected the price to move upward to about $1600-$1700/ton which would equate to 80-85 cents a lb.   We have heard unconfirmed reports of tuna off Newport, Or. as close in as 40 miles.  No commercial boats but a few charters are going for them.  The tackle stores are doing a bang up business.  It’s real easy to spend a couple hundred bucks on gear and it seems like *everybody* is gearing up. The excitement of last years tuna coming close (20 miles) has got every- body in it’s grip. As soon as they are in striking distance of the day boats (40-50 miles for my boat) I’m off for two weeks fishing tuna every day.  I’ll try to keep everybody posted until I leave.  ;)                                 Fish to Live, Live to Fish                                    ’Fish Assassin’ Mark                                      Pacific City, OR ***     Looking for adventure on the high seas off Pacific City, Or.    ***

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