Question:

Check with Fish First Fly shop in Chico. 167 E 3rd St. Chico CA 95928 Tel (530) 343-8300 Fax (530) 343-8934 Their web site is www.fishfirst.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just resently moved to Chico and I love to flyu fish.  I’m don’t know where any good local fishing spots are near by.  If anyone could help me with some streams to fish and some flys to use here in Butte County I would appreciate it Thank you.

Response:

I just resently moved to Chico and I love to flyu fish.  I’m don’t know where any good local fishing spots are near by.  If anyone could help me with some streams to fish and some flys to use here in Butte County I would appreciate it Thank you.

Response:

Question:

Finally hauled the boat down to Manor Lake yesterday, met my partner at 6 AM, and backed down the ramp & started the big motor.  It was its usually cranky self, taking several stalls & restarts to get rumbling.  Backed it off the trailer & then it stalled again…never to restart on this day again .  Oh well, so I dropped the troller & went fishing.  Caught 6 kinds of fish, including my first dozen bass of the season (up to 3#) on 3 & 5" Husky Jerks.  But the motor thing definately put a damper on this beautiful day. The fly wheel spins, though it doies sound alittle rougher than usual.  It was suggested to me that the plugs were probably just fouled, what do you guys think?  Oh yea, when I pulled out (no fun w/o the big engine) & lowered the motor for it to drain, some dark gas (smelled like gas anyway) can out of the prop.  HELP! Warren

Response:

Sounds like bad gas, and you flooded the motor.  may be a bad needle valve in the carb, or junk sticking the valve. Bill

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Finally hauled the boat down to Manor Lake yesterday, met my partner at 6 AM, and backed down the ramp & started the big motor.  It was its usually cranky self, taking several stalls & restarts to get rumbling.  Backed it off the trailer & then it stalled again…never to restart on this day again .  Oh well, so I dropped the troller & went fishing.  Caught 6 kinds of fish, including my first dozen bass of the season (up to 3#) on 3 & 5" Husky Jerks.  But the motor thing definately put a damper on this beautiful day. The fly wheel spins, though it doies sound alittle rougher than usual.  It was suggested to me that the plugs were probably just fouled, what do you guys think?  Oh yea, when I pulled out (no fun w/o the big engine) & lowered the motor for it to drain, some dark gas (smelled like gas anyway) can out of the prop.  HELP! Warren

Response:

Sounds like you’ll be riding in the back of my boat Warren…..

Response:

Warren it could have been worse…..you could have a mashed up baby finger! Still better than me!!  My water is still hard and closed!   Humph! —                             Steve from Stony

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sounds like you’ll be riding in the back of my boat Warren…..

Response:

After de-winterizing your big motor, why wouldn’t you put on the water muffs and fire that big bad girl up to just to get her juices flowing again and to see if you needed to change those plugs?  Hate it when the engines gives me a hard time at the launch.  But we have all been there at least once in our lives! Hope everything is minor! — Craig

Response:

        Yep….You flooded her out, Warren. And why didn’t you change the plugs!? I put fresh ones in at the start of every season, and keep last years’ (after cleaning and re-gapping, if need be) for spares in the boat at all times….         You can attempt to spray carb cleaner down the throats of the carbs once you DO have it running in your driveway with the water muffs on it, and see if you can clear them out a bit. You may need starting fluid to get her to light off, tho.          Starting fluid is another useful thing to carry, so that if you flood an engine out, you can dry the cylinders out with it, as well as plugs. A squirt in each cylinder, motor it over to blow out the gas/starting fluid, insert fresh plugs (or dried out ones) and fire it up….         When was the last time you did a carb cleaning/overhaul? For optimum performance, I’d recommend one every 3-5 years. All it takes to melt a hole in one of your pistons is to have a bit of debris/gunk in the carb, get it stuck in the main jet, and lean the cylinder out at max power…. been there, done that….. baaaaad craziness.         B3– Robert E. Longshore

Response:

I hear ya, in retrospect I should have….AH!  The hell with it Craig.  I had a stiffy to get out there, and I know you’ve been there! Warren

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After de-winterizing your big motor, why wouldn’t you put on the water muffs and fire that big bad girl up to just to get her juices flowing again and to see if you needed to change those plugs?  Hate it when the engines gives me a hard time at the launch.  But we have all been there at least once in our lives! Hope everything is minor! — Craig

Response:

You’re a good pal Bob, THANKS.  You do realize that it BETTER start when I change those plugs.  My boat’s going into its 4th year, never had the carbs cleaned.  Didn’t know I had to to be honest.  Any recommendations for spark plugs? Warren – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –         Yep….You flooded her out, Warren. And why didn’t you change the plugs!? I put fresh ones in at the start of every season, and keep last years’ (after cleaning and re-gapping, if need be) for spares in the boat at all times….         You can attempt to spray carb cleaner down the throats of the carbs once you DO have it running in your driveway with the water muffs on it, and see if you can clear them out a bit. You may need starting fluid to get her to light off, tho.          Starting fluid is another useful thing to carry, so that if you flood an engine out, you can dry the cylinders out with it, as well as plugs. A squirt in each cylinder, motor it over to blow out the gas/starting fluid, insert fresh plugs (or dried out ones) and fire it up….         When was the last time you did a carb cleaning/overhaul? For optimum performance, I’d recommend one every 3-5 years. All it takes to melt a hole in one of your pistons is to have a bit of debris/gunk in the carb, get it stuck in the main jet, and lean the cylinder out at max power…. been there, done that….. baaaaad craziness.         B3– Robert E. Longshore

Response:

I knew you guys’d get me smiling… W2 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Warren it could have been worse…..you could have a mashed up baby finger! Still better than me!!  My water is still hard and closed!   Humph! —                             Steve from Stony Sounds like you’ll be riding in the back of my boat Warren…..

Response:

Question:

Michael,    I think this group has determined that fly size is more important than color.  Of course presentation is important but that is not a characteristic of the fly. Ernie Harrison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What do you think??   We need a good, ON-TOPIC bloodbath on this group, and we haven’t had one in quite a while. Michael Roegner

Response:

Dave,    I would rather have a glass of beer.  We know that colors darken when wet, and that the fish is usually looking at a back lighted object.  We are not certain what light spectrum the fish sees.  The impression the fly makes when sitting on the water or trapped bubbles on a rising insect are probably more important than the exact shade of the insect.  The more you know about the insect the more likely you are to tie a good imitation.  The beer is handy for sipping while tying.  The real test of the fly will come when you present it to the fish. Ernie Harrison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I guess that from a lot of posts on here lately (thanks for all the great info) that I should include a glass of water at my bench when I tie. And a specimen of the fly itself. Dave

Response:

I would use a photo, the colors of bugs disappear in minutes after death.   I guess that from a lot of posts on here lately (thanks for all the great info) that I should include a glass of water at my bench when I tie. And a specimen of the fly itself. Dave "M

Harry Mason www.Troutflies.com

Response:

Dale –         You’re not nuts at all, although I suspect that the reason why they turn the color of the rocks doesn’t really derive from the "rocks they eat".  

I was wondering if anyone would else would comment on this. This conjured up the image of some robotic like insects chewing up rocks.           That having been said – I’m going to drop a pretty major bombshell here in the hopes of sparking some discussion.  I have found that precise pattern, precise coloration, etc., is generally pointless in most (if not all) flyfishing.   What I’ve generally found is that just about ANY fairly representative pattern will catch as many, and as large, fish as the most perfectly colored, precisely matched pattern.  

I’ve brought this topic up in the past and not much interest was generated. In fact one poster said he couldn’t think of anything more boring. (I guess talking about someone’s underwear etc. has more interest to this person) I pretty much agree with you. Presentation is where it’s at. Fly size however, is VERY important. Pattern type is next i.e.. up wing, down wing, emerger, etc. Color is not very important. An exception to this is with heavily fished C&R waters, especially in tailwaters with their limited range of insect types. Some fish in these places can become hyperselective to pattern and color. This is just one of the peculiarities these fish exhibit.         What does make a difference?   Presentation is a major issue, being careful not to spook the fish,  observation of their feeding patterns,  ability to spot fish, knowledge of where they’re likely to hold, and patience.   If you cover those items, you’ll usually find that you can catch fish just fine with a pattern that doesn’t do such a precise job of matching the naturals.

My advice to new anglers is to spend less time on changing flies and more time on making a good presentation. Stalk a fish to get closer, change position, make more or different mends, change tippet length or size, add or remove weight etc. etc. etc. Correct presentation is a very broad and complex topic. It’s the most difficult of the skills in flyfishing.         I have a theory about all this – the myth that you have to match the naturals so precisely was created primarily to catch FISHERMEN rather than FISH.  And it has worked well, primarily because its always easier to tell yourself that "If I only had color X, or pattern Y, I’d be catching fish"  than it is to recognize that your own skills are what need improvement.

I also think that searching for the "perfect" fly is futile. I’ve never run into the situation where there was a "right" fly although some other posters here swear they have been in this situation. I fish mainly a range of different styles of flies in a range of sizes rather than specific patterns. I probably use about 4 different styles 90% of the time. Willi

Response:

Some may think I’m nuts about this also, but I think some of the color of the bugs is determined by the color of rocks they eat.

Bugs eat rocks? — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Good points Ernie and Harry, and some of the best looking dry fly’s on the water IMHO that I tie are Compara-dun’s out of "Compara-hatch" booklet by Caucci/Nasatsi. Easier to tie than the traditional ones for me, what is the consensus on compare vs. traditional here, besides the traditional might be better on slower water?

I like Compara dun style better for slower water.  I especially like them using CDC for the wing instead of deer. It’s my usual choice for mayfly feeding fish on flat water. They can also be changed to an emerger at streamside by flattening the wing along the back.  You can fish them dry, damp or wet. Versital fly. Willi

Response:

How many feathers do you use for the wing ? What kind of tailing, now that I’m ask a million questions.;-)   I like this pattern as well but it floats for only a short period, in my experence. I think the tailing is very important  with slow water bugs and CDC. I like Compara dun style better for slower water.  I especially like them using CDC for the wing instead of deer. It’s my usual choice for mayfly feeding fish on flat water. They can also be changed to an emerger at streamside by flattening the wing along the back.  You can fish them dry, damp or wet. Versital fly. Willi

Harry Mason www.Troutflies.com

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – On those that I’ve examined, the thorax is sort of a cream with dun mixed in and the abdomen is an olive with rust and the wings definitely a medium to dark dun. Like I’ve always said, nothing in nature is monotone… it’s always a mixture of colors and that’s why the best dubbing is blended from different materials and colors.  You never get exact matches and day-to-day, you’ll find the naturals in differing shades, depending on the weather, natural lighting conditions, time of day they hatch and other variables. Also keep in mind, the color of your imitation is influenced by reflected light, how wet the materials get and other factors as well, so what comes off the vise is likely to look drastically different when it’s on the water….. and especailly when it’s viewed from beneath the water by a creature with a highly different vision system. Others? Larry #:)#

______  You make an excellent point Larry and its the same one I’ve offered for many years.  The wise fly tier will always "test-dress" a bit of sample dubbing or a fly at the fly tying bench with the fly dressing of their choice.  There is no sense in having a Light Cahill turning into a Dark Cahill after it gets wet beyond the desired shade required.  Of course my favorite choice shows the shade changes perfectly because it duplicates how the fly will look on the water to a finicky trout, and lets face it, there are more and more finicky, experienced, trout then ever before. Again Larry, I agree with you.  If it isn’t perfect at the bench, it won’t be perfect astream. Mr.G.

Response:

Some may think I’m nuts about this also, but I think some of the color of the bugs is determined by the color of rocks they eat. For an example if the rocks are primaily granite their main color might take on a light pink effect as well as all the other colors. Big Dale

Response:

Dale –         You’re not nuts at all, although I suspect that the reason why they turn the color of the rocks doesn’t really derive from the "rocks they eat".   I would expect that it has more to do with protective coloration – an insect has a much better chance of surviving to reproduce if their predators can’t pick them out against the background colors.         That having been said – I’m going to drop a pretty major bombshell here in the hopes of sparking some discussion.  I have found that precise pattern, precise coloration, etc., is generally pointless in most (if not all) flyfishing.   What I’ve generally found is that just about ANY fairly representative pattern will catch as many, and as large, fish as the most perfectly colored, precisely matched pattern.  This is an area of special interest for me, and I frequently test it by switching patterns to a off-color or more general pattern while my buddies obsess on "matching the hatch".   There doesn’t seem to be any difference at all.             What does make a difference?   Presentation is a major issue, being careful not to spook the fish,  observation of their feeding patterns,  ability to spot fish, knowledge of where they’re likely to hold, and patience.   If you cover those items, you’ll usually find that you can catch fish just fine with a pattern that doesn’t do such a precise job of matching the naturals.         I have a theory about all this – the myth that you have to match the naturals so precisely was created primarily to catch FISHERMEN rather than FISH.  And it has worked well, primarily because its always easier to tell yourself that "If I only had color X, or pattern Y, I’d be catching fish"  than it is to recognize that your own skills are what need improvement.           What do you think??   We need a good, ON-TOPIC bloodbath on this group, and we haven’t had one in quite a while.                                         Michael Roegner – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Some may think I’m nuts about this also, but I think some of the color of the bugs is determined by the color of rocks they eat. For an example if the rocks are primaily granite their main color might take on a light pink effect as well as all the other colors. Big Dale

Response:

…         What do you think??  

I’ll pull out the weasel words on this one. While I tend to agree most of the time, I’ve been in situations, rarely, where a precise match would catch fish and no other fly would. I don’t remember the name of the stream but it’s just outside Jackson, WY. One of the toughest places I’ve ever fished. They were taking Callibaetis spinners and that was IT. Another data point is fishing Joe’s Hoppers on Slough Creek. So long as the fly was whole I had no trouble catching those big, dumb cutts but as soon as the turkey wing got just the least bit separated it was like turning off the lights. Put on a new hopper and the lights come back on. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

I guess that from a lot of posts on here lately (thanks for all the great info) that I should include a glass of water at my bench when I tie. And a specimen of the fly itself. Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – On those that I’ve examined, the thorax is sort of a cream with dun mixed in and the abdomen is an olive with rust and the wings definitely a medium to dark dun. Like I’ve always said, nothing in nature is monotone… it’s always a mixture of colors and that’s why the best dubbing is blended from different materials and colors.  You never get exact matches and day-to-day, you’ll find the naturals in differing shades, depending on the weather, natural lighting conditions, time of day they hatch and other variables. Also keep in mind, the color of your imitation is influenced by reflected light, how wet the materials get and other factors as well, so what comes off the vise is likely to look drastically different when it’s on the water….. and especailly when it’s viewed from beneath the water by a creature with a highly different vision system. Others? Larry #:)# ______  You make an excellent point Larry and its the same one I’ve offered for many years.  The wise fly tier will always "test-dress" a bit of sample dubbing or a fly at the fly tying bench with the fly dressing of their choice.  There is no sense in having a Light Cahill turning into a Dark Cahill after it gets wet beyond the desired shade required.  Of course my favorite choice shows the shade changes perfectly because it duplicates how the fly will look on the water to a finicky trout, and lets face it, there are more and more finicky, experienced, trout then ever before. Again Larry, I agree with you.  If it isn’t perfect at the bench, it won’t be perfect astream. Mr.G.

Response:

Good points Ernie and Harry, and some of the best looking dry fly’s on the water IMHO that I tie are Compara-dun’s out of "Compara-hatch" booklet by Caucci/Nasatsi. Easier to tie than the traditional ones for me, what is the consensus on compare vs. traditional here, besides the traditional might be better on slower water? Dave (Harry great photo’s on your site) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I would use a photo, the colors of bugs disappear in minutes after death. I guess that from a lot of posts on here lately (thanks for all the great info) that I should include a glass of water at my bench when I tie. And a specimen of the fly itself. Dave "M Harry Mason www.Troutflies.com

Response:

On those that I’ve examined, the thorax is sort of a cream with dun mixed in and the abdomen is an olive with rust and the wings definitely a medium to dark dun. Like I’ve always said, nothing in nature is monotone… it’s always a mixture of colors and that’s why the best dubbing is blended from different materials and colors.  You never get exact matches and day-to-day, you’ll find the naturals in differing shades, depending on the weather, natural lighting conditions, time of day they hatch and other variables. Also keep in mind, the color of your imitation is influenced by reflected light, how wet the materials get and other factors as well, so what comes off the vise is likely to look drastically different when it’s on the water….. and especailly when it’s viewed from beneath the water by a creature with a highly different vision system. Others? Larry #:)#

Response:

______  Dear Pete: I suppose, one of the main flies in my arsenal is indeed various sizes of the "Blue Winged Olive Dun."  In fact, the majority of my finest flies that I tie are from the exact patterns as described in Ernie Scwiebert’s masterful work, "Matching The Hatch."  I personally think no fly fisherman would find themselves wanting on any stream in the United States if he tied up a half dozen of every fly in this magnificent book.  It is the base of my entire fly collection that I carry in my vest for the last 44 years! The Blue Winged Olive Duns along with the Iron Duns are perhaps the mainstay of a starting line on most streams, early in the season, especially the Iron Blue Dun on a river such as the Frying Pan, Gunnison, Blue River, Fire Hole, and the list goes on.  The Blue Winged Olive Dun has a total range across the United States from New York State, westward beyond Montana. I would suggest that these ‘Steak and Potato’ flies be best researched and tied out of the classic volume I have just mentioned.  I don’t think any fly fisherman could do better regarding descriptions and the basic history of some of the finest flies used on the American Continent. To wit:  Thank You Mr. Ernie Schwiebert. Mr. G.

Response:

Funny – we’re using the same name for different insects. In Europe the Blue Winged Olive is the anglers name for the Ephemerella ignita. From May to September – don’t leave home without it! Some nice pics at: http://www.fishing-in-wales.co.uk/wildlife/insects/upwing/bwolive.htm Herman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – … From what I understand, BWO is a fisherman’s term that describes a number of different species of mayflies. … Bluewinged Olive is the fishermen’s name for the subimago of several Baetis spp. and Pseudocloeon spp. and the subimago Ephemerella flavilinea. What I call "the little grey ones". — Ken Fortenberry

–         Cheers, Herman         Herman Nijland         Daytime webmaster         Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

[snip] Also keep in mind, the color of your imitation is influenced by reflected light, how wet the materials get and other factors as well, so what comes off the vise is likely to look drastically different when it’s on the water….. and especailly when it’s viewed from beneath the water by a creature with a highly different vision system.

Is he talking about Louie?

Response:

Excellent book and excellent fly.  Perfect for Colorado and New Mexico streams. Well said, Mr. G DP – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ______  Dear Pete: I suppose, one of the main flies in my arsenal is indeed various sizes of the "Blue Winged Olive Dun."  In fact, the majority of my finest flies that I tie are from the exact patterns as described in Ernie Scwiebert’s masterful work, "Matching The Hatch."  I personally think no fly fisherman would find themselves wanting on any stream in the United States if he tied up a half dozen of every fly in this magnificent book.  It is the base of my entire fly collection that I carry in my vest for the last 44 years! The Blue Winged Olive Duns along with the Iron Duns are perhaps the mainstay of a starting line on most streams, early in the season, especially the Iron Blue Dun on a river such as the Frying Pan, Gunnison, Blue River, Fire Hole, and the list goes on.  The Blue Winged Olive Dun has a total range across the United States from New York State, westward beyond Montana. I would suggest that these ‘Steak and Potato’ flies be best researched and tied out of the classic volume I have just mentioned.  I don’t think any fly fisherman could do better regarding descriptions and the basic history of some of the finest flies used on the American Continent. To wit:  Thank You Mr. Ernie Schwiebert. Mr. G.

Response:

Aside from the "bad weather fly" part (must be a western thing – we get ‘em all the way up through Maine even on really nice days)

It might be an altitude/sun thing ie. sun more intense at higher altitude. Out West cloud cover really makes a difference. They will hatch out on sunny days but much better with cloud cover.  If you’re on the stream on a sunny day and you get a period of cloud cover, even for a relatively short period of time, the hatch intensifies and the fish will start feeding.  When the sun comes out the whole thing stops. I’ve been on the river during partly cloudy days and have see this cycle repeated all day long. Willi

Response:

Hi Guys, I was on the Lower Kings River the other day and I picked up what was defined to me as a BWO or blue wing olive.  This was the first actual specimen I had ever seen.  Upon close examination, the thorax showed up to be what I would describe as a light yellowish olive or even a very light lime green color.  The wings were the standard gray which I believe is also called dun color. I tied up a few in the same color (from memory) using the parachute style, and they came out pretty nice after a few tries.  In speaking with a bud regarding this fly, he stated that he thought the thorax is often other colors such as gray, bluish or yellow.  Not that I doubt him, but I have not found any materials which show me other variations of the blue wing olive. I don’t see blue wing yellows or blue wing grays either. <g Any thoughts on this topic? Pete

Response:

BWO’s do vary in the color of the body as well as the shade of gray of the wing. They also vary in size. On a given river, these differences are usually seasonal. As a whole they tend to get smaller as the season goes on. In the Spring, they will be of a size 16 or 18. By late Fall and Winter they will be down to a 20 or 22. Different watersheds also have different BWO’s. From what I understand, BWO is a fisherman’s term that describes a number of different species of mayflies. The commonality is a gray wing and a body with some olive tones in it. The body often has other colors in it including: gray, yellow, rust, brown. cream etc. When tying them I generally blend an olive with several other colors. Most of the time, I prefer a parachute or paradun style. BWO’s are a "bad weather" fly.  They hatch heaviest on overcast days. In the Rockies, the BWO’s are the most consistent Mayfly.  They will hatch every month, even in mid Winter during a warm spell. Just before runoff, there are some very strong hatches on cloudy days that provide some excellent surface fishing. The hatches also seem to get stronger again in the Fall. Most of the time, I prefer a parachute or paradun style. Willi – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Guys, I was on the Lower Kings River the other day and I picked up what was defined to me as a BWO or blue wing olive.  This was the first actual specimen I had ever seen.  Upon close examination, the thorax showed up to be what I would describe as a light yellowish olive or even a very light lime green color.  The wings were the standard gray which I believe is also called dun color. I tied up a few in the same color (from memory) using the parachute style, and they came out pretty nice after a few tries.  In speaking with a bud regarding this fly, he stated that he thought the thorax is often other colors such as gray, bluish or yellow.  Not that I doubt him, but I have not found any materials which show me other variations of the blue wing olive. I don’t see blue wing yellows or blue wing grays either. <g Any thoughts on this topic? Pete

Response:

And I always thought it meant "Budwiser With Onionrings" I guess I’ll have more room in my vest next time out for flies Dave ( the book is on my wish list, thanks George) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ______  Dear Pete: I suppose, one of the main flies in my arsenal is indeed various sizes of the "Blue Winged Olive Dun."  In fact, the majority of my finest flies that I tie are from the exact patterns as described in Ernie Scwiebert’s masterful work, "Matching The Hatch."  I personally think no fly fisherman would find themselves wanting on any stream in the United States if he tied up a half dozen of every fly in this magnificent book.  It is the base of my entire fly collection that I carry in my vest for the last 44 years! The Blue Winged Olive Duns along with the Iron Duns are perhaps the mainstay of a starting line on most streams, early in the season, especially the Iron Blue Dun on a river such as the Frying Pan, Gunnison, Blue River, Fire Hole, and the list goes on.  The Blue Winged Olive Dun has a total range across the United States from New York State, westward beyond Montana. I would suggest that these ‘Steak and Potato’ flies be best researched and tied out of the classic volume I have just mentioned.  I don’t think any fly fisherman could do better regarding descriptions and the basic history of some of the finest flies used on the American Continent. To wit:  Thank You Mr. Ernie Schwiebert. Mr. G.

Response:

I was told by an entomologist/flyfisherman that there were twenty different species called BWO that he was aware of. He felt that there probably was really close to a hundred. Willi – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – … From what I understand, BWO is a fisherman’s term that describes a number of different species of mayflies. … Bluewinged Olive is the fishermen’s name for the subimago of several Baetis spp. and Pseudocloeon spp. and the subimago Ephemerella flavilinea. What I call "the little grey ones". — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – BWO’s do vary in the color of the body as well as the shade of gray of the wing. They also vary in size. On a given river, these differences are usually seasonal. As a whole they tend to get smaller as the season goes on. In the Spring, they will be of a size 16 or 18. By late Fall and Winter they will be down to a 20 or 22. Different watersheds also have different BWO’s. From what I understand, BWO is a fisherman’s term that describes a number of different species of mayflies. The commonality is a gray wing and a body with some olive tones in it. The body often has other colors in it including: gray, yellow, rust, brown. cream etc. When tying them I generally blend an olive with several other colors. Most of the time, I prefer a parachute or paradun style. BWO’s are a "bad weather" fly.  They hatch heaviest on overcast days. In the Rockies, the BWO’s are the most consistent Mayfly.  They will hatch every month, even in mid Winter during a warm spell. Just before runoff, there are some very strong hatches on cloudy days that provide some excellent surface fishing. The hatches also seem to get stronger again in the Fall. Most of the time, I prefer a parachute or paradun style.

Aside from the "bad weather fly" part (must be a western thing – we get ‘em all the way up through Maine even on really nice days) you provided some solid information on this pattern, William. I don’t have enough fingers and toes to count all the body color variations I’ve seen used on BWOs – though the wings, hackles, and tails are nearly always a medium blue dun (and I wouldn’t tie ‘em with anything else). Anyone making the Y2K Maine Conclave should have a bunch of these at the ready, size 16-20 (particularly 18-20)… /daytripper

Response:

… From what I understand, BWO is a fisherman’s term that describes a number of different species of mayflies. …

Bluewinged Olive is the fishermen’s name for the subimago of several Baetis spp. and Pseudocloeon spp. and the subimago Ephemerella flavilinea. What I call "the little grey ones". — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Question:

Need to provide a little more information… What does it say on the BUTT SECTION ? If it’s got a defective ferrule OR a bent trip, the chances are good that it has been "Trippered" and is useless…. Oh good start,  T-bone,  Canadian judge gives this egging troll an 8 on subtlety, Now the question is will the quarry be attracted?

_______  Heck Steve, I rose to that fly like a Trip to the Toilet bowl! LOL!!!! God!  I love this place. Mr. G.

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Steve Cooper: (snipped good stuff) <<Stevo the Howard Cosell impersonator Hell, man, now I know why you want a hat!  To hide that terrible looking rug on your head!  <g Dave L.

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Take it elsewhere pal. We’re all getting pretty tired of people spamming bamboo rods of unknown quality on this site.

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With all that goes on in this group, I have trouble labelling a one time post about a rod for sale as Spam. It seems appropriate to me to make a ONE TIME post about a fly fishing item for sale in this newsegroup. Short fishing note.  Because of all the unseasonably warm weather lately, the farmers have been irrigating again.  The rivers are VERY low. Last night I was fishing to midging fish that were making wakes when they moved to take a bug. It looked more like spawning fish (it wasn’t) than feeding ones. They were very spooky in the slow current and low water and very acrobatic when hooked. Willi – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Take it elsewhere pal. We’re all getting pretty tired of people spamming bamboo rods of unknown quality on this site.

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With all that goes on in this group, I have trouble labelling a one time post about a rod for sale as Spam. It seems appropriate to me to make a ONE TIME post about a fly fishing item for sale in this newsegroup.

Sorry Willi, you are right. I guess I’m just getting a little testy about all the bandwidth wasted on the subject of bamboo rods of questionable pedigree.

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Black helicopters? Black helicopters? We don knee no stinkin Black helicopters Dave

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Martina/Larry (gender challenged??) –  now this is a bona-fide cross-posting!!! A friend of mine has a bamboo fly fishing rod and wants to get rid of it,for money of course. How much is he offering? I’ll take it off his hands for $20, just send me the money at the same time as the rod, no problemo   It’s not just old, it’s also still catching fish. sounds like wayno… Not quite correct, if it was "not just old, its also still catching bait"it would be just like Wayno

        if there’s one thing worse than a damn yankee, it’s a misinformed canuck.  :) wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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FYI "Canuck"is the ethnic slur for French Canadians. The correct slur for generic Canadians is "Cheeser," or "Frostback." Dave

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Heck Dave, I thought it was "Hoser". ) Frank ("Hoosier") Church – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – FYI "Canuck"is the ethnic slur for French Canadians. The correct slur for generic Canadians is "Cheeser," or "Frostback." Dave

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FYI "Canuck"is the ethnic slur for French Canadians. The correct slur for generic Canadians is "Cheeser," or "Frostback." Dave

_____  I’d prefer to say, "Great Neighbors". Mr. G.

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A friend of mine has a bamboo fly fishing rod and wants to get rid of it, for money of course, and was wondering if there is a market for such a fine old piece of art.  It’s not just old, it’s also still catching fish. Not being a fisherman myself, I though I would bait you guys first, pardon the pun, and see what kind of response I will get. Thanks, Larry

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Martina/Larry (gender challenged??) –  now this is a bona-fide cross-posting!!! A friend of mine has a bamboo fly fishing rod and wants to get rid of it,for money of course.

How much is he offering?   It’s not just old, it’s also still catching fish. sounds like wayno… Not being a fisherman myself, I though I would bait you guys first, pardon the pun, and see what kind of response I will get.

will this do? Thanks, Larry

yer welcome. jeff ps – you might want to provide a few more details about the rod if you want a serious reply…no guarantee you’ll get one, but it might help.

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Need to provide a little more information… What does it say on the BUTT SECTION ? If it’s got a defective ferrule OR a bent trip, the chances are good that it has been "Trippered" and is useless…. — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

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Not being a fisherman myself, I though I would bait you guys first, pardon the pun, and see what kind of response I will get.

Uh, this is a fly fishing newsgroup.  Bait is a four letter word. Keith

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Martina/Larry (gender challenged??) –  now this is a bona-fide cross-posting!!! A friend of mine has a bamboo fly fishing rod and wants to get rid of it,for money of course. How much is he offering?

I’ll take it off his hands for $20, just send me the money at the same time as the rod, no problemo   It’s not just old, it’s also still catching fish. sounds like wayno…

Not quite correct, if it was "not just old, its also still catching bait"it would be just like Wayno

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Need to provide a little more information… What does it say on the BUTT SECTION ? If it’s got a defective ferrule OR a bent trip, the chances are good that it has been "Trippered" and is useless….

Nah, it’s that crazy UPS guy. — Charlie…

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Need to provide a little more information… What does it say on the BUTT SECTION ? If it’s got a defective ferrule OR a bent trip, the chances are good that it has been "Trippered" and is useless….

Oh good start,  T-bone,  Canadian judge gives this egging troll an 8 on subtlety, Now the question is will the quarry be attracted?

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Tim Walker: <<If it’s got a defective ferrule OR a bent trip, the chances are good that it has been "Trippered" and is useless…. Cheap shot, Tim.  Not like you.  Very cheap shot.

OOoh too bad!, a beautiful rise and take,  but the wrong species…… Will T-bone lay out another cast? or is he still confident in his original presentation? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dave L.

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Tim Walker: <<If it’s got a defective ferrule OR a bent trip, the chances are good that it has been "Trippered" and is useless…. Cheap shot, Tim.  Not like you.  Very cheap shot. Dave L.

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If it’s got a defective ferrule OR a bent trip

Not fair you guys…you know that tip was straight when it left the factory…must have been that black helicopter that bent the tip. Big Dale

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Steve  Cooper: <<OOoh too bad!, a beautiful rise and take,  but the wrong species…… Will T-bone lay out another cast? or is he still confident in his original presentation? No rise and no take, Steve.  This is Timbo’s way of "egging" on Tripper.  I said he could *not* be egged on, and he can’t.  But I did not mean shit like this.  I meant "egged on" as George meant it — to get Tripper to do something that he knew was dishonorable. NO ONE can make Day Tripper (Dave Tatosian) do something like that. Egg him into a fight like this?  I think he will stay out of it just to fuck over Timbo. So, like I said, lad, "Cheap shot". Dave L.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Steve  Cooper: <<OOoh too bad!, a beautiful rise and take,  but the wrong species…… Will T-bone lay out another cast? or is he still confident in his original presentation? No rise and no take, Steve.  This is Timbo’s way of "egging" on Tripper.  I said he could *not* be egged on, and he can’t.  But I did not mean shit like this.  I meant "egged on" as George meant it — to get Tripper to do something that he knew was dishonorable. NO ONE can make Day Tripper (Dave Tatosian) do something like that. Egg him into a fight like this?  I think he will stay out of it just to fuck over Timbo. So, like I said, lad, "Cheap shot".

 I’m cool with that, Dave,  I know most of the story on this one, I’m just having a  little fun, Actually I think T-B is just trying to have a little fun too. I was pretty sure that DT wouldn’t be drawn in by T-B’s troll here but I just tried to make this thread a bit more interesting by adding the colour commentary. Stevo the Howard Cosell impersonator

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no — it was a blue UN helicopter, scouting out the US for conquest, scaring fish and bending tips. You don’t see them in the east — our tips are already bent .

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If it’s got a defective ferrule OR a bent trip Not fair you guys…you know that tip was straight when it left the factory…must have been that black helicopter that bent the tip. Big Dale

Response:

Need to provide a little more information… What does it say on the BUTT SECTION ? If it’s got a defective ferrule OR a bent trip, the chances are good that it has been "Trippered" and is useless…. — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

: )))))))))))))))))))) !  I can’t help it if you make me laugh, but that was kinda a low blow even for an unqualified Trippered judged rod T-bone.  You are soooooooooooo funny!   whew* Thanks, I needed that! Mr. G.

Response:

Need to provide a little more information… What does it say on the BUTT SECTION ? If it’s got a defective ferrule OR a bent trip, the chances are good that it has been "Trippered" and is useless…. — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

_______  Very insightful pal.  Keen of eye.  A ‘Trippered Conversation’ is more like it, to be perfectly frank.  "Of Course," that could cover also the tipper section but definitely the the Big Butt Section of a two act rod team?         You have to be one of the most honest posters in all of Roffdom. You are most appreciated pal. Mr. G.

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Question:

looking for stream conditions and fly patterns to use in the northwest SC, northeast  GA, southwest NC area.  have not been flyfishing long and have a desire to get that first fish!!! thanks

Response:

looking for stream conditions and fly patterns to use in the northwest SC, northeast  GA, southwest NC area.  have not been flyfishing long and have a desire to get that first fish!!! thanks

Hasn’t rained in a while so the creeks I was on last weekend (in the Blue Ridge WMA in N GA) were about normal. Got a few takes on bwo and elk hair caddis but didn’t see any rising fish. — Charlie…

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looking for stream conditions and fly patterns to use in the northwest SC, northeast  GA, southwest NC area.  have not been flyfishing long and have a desire to get that first fish!!!

Try the Chattooga River access at Burrell’s Ford from GA and SC.  I’d recommend getting the Chattooga River Wild and Scenic River Map published by the Forest Service.  The river is very fishable now and you can check the water level at the USGS web site.  This river normally runs 2 to 3 feet, if it is above 5 feet don’t waste your time.  Humpy’s and Elk hair caddis are good in the pocket water, and Hare’s ears are good in the pools.  I caught a really nice Brown a couple of weeks ago in the West Fork of the Chattooga.  However, the casting is tight and may not be what you are looking for if your new to the sport.  I also like to fish upstream of the West Fork up toward Elliott Rock (which is the border with NC).  The river is pretty wide with plenty of room for a backcast. It is a couple of mile hike upstream of Burrells Ford and most of thebait fishermen won’t make the trip.  Good Luck. Patrick

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Question:

I’m planning on spending several weeks fishing BC lakes this year.  I am looking at the area between Merrit and Kamloops and the area between 100 Mole House and Lttle Fort. I am planning the trip for the first part of July .  I could delay it for a few weeks.  Question:  Given the snow pack this year, would the beginning of July be a reasonable time to fish this area?  Also would appreciate any other advise anyone may care to offer. Thanks in advance. Jim

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No don’t delay go then! Best fishing is may-june into July. fishing holds into July Aug only when the weather is unusually coldin spring early summer. Early July will give you a shot at traveller sedge hatches. other than that major hatches (chironomids, damsels, dragons) are over or on the wane. Expect to fish scuds and leeches Good luck – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I’m planning on spending several weeks fishing BC lakes this year.  I am looking at the area between Merrit and Kamloops and the area between 100 Mole House and Lttle Fort. I am planning the trip for the first part of July .  I could delay it for a few weeks.  Question:  Given the snow pack this year, would the beginning of July be a reasonable time to fish this area?  Also would appreciate any other advise anyone may care to offer. Thanks in advance. Jim

Ralph H "…      the sabbath rang slowly      in the pebbles of the holy streams!" Dylan Thomas, "Fern Hill"

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m planning on spending several weeks fishing BC lakes this year.  I am looking at the area between Merrit and Kamloops and the area between 100 Mole House and Lttle Fort. I am planning the trip for the first part of July .  I could delay it for a few weeks.  Question:  Given the snow pack this year, would the beginning of July be a reasonable time to fish this area?  Also would appreciate any other advise anyone may care to offer. Thanks in advance. Jim

Brian Chan has an excellent video  "Stillwater strategies vol II" if your looking for techniques and patterns in Kamloops area. — The views expressed are my own and does not represent those of my employer.

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I’m planning on spending several weeks fishing BC lakes this year.  I am looking at the area between Merrit and Kamloops and the area between 100 Mole House and Lttle Fort.

I will be fishing up in the Thompson-Nicola plateau (i.e. between Merritt and Kamloops) in about 4 weeks. Some of the higher lakes will still be iced at that time, but you’ll have no problems by July. As for further north – again, you should be out of ice by late May virtually everywhere in the area. I am planning the trip for the first part of July .  I could delay it for a few weeks.  Question:  Given the snow pack this year, would the beginning of July be a reasonable time to fish this area?  Also would appreciate any other advise anyone may care to offer.

Because of the snowpack, some of the *streams* will be a bit tough this year. However, most streams in that area are closed until June 30 anyway. The lakes will be just fine. 3798 Woodland Drive     voice: (250) 368-9315 Trail, BC               data:  (250) 368-9341

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m planning on spending several weeks fishing BC lakes this year.  I am looking at the area between Merrit and Kamloops and the area between 100 Mole House and Lttle Fort. I am planning the trip for the first part of July .  I could delay it for a few weeks.  Question:  Given the snow pack this year, would the beginning of July be a reasonable time to fish this area?  Also would appreciate any other advise anyone may care to offer. Thanks in advance. Jim

My friends and I are going the May long weekend to 100 mile house, hopefully the weather is warm, we plan on hitting the lowest elevation lakes around the area, concentrating on shallower lakes. A good source for info is a tackle shop just out side of 100 mile house near Lac la Hache(sp?), the shop is called FLY-R-US I think. The owner is very informative of which lake is fishable. You can’t miss the shop, it is right on the highway, look for the big sign of a fly. I think July should be alright for fishing in 100 mile area.

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Question:

I will be fishing the Rock Creek Area the first week of August and am looking for an area with accomodations and good fishing someplace in between there and Seattle. I don’t want to "double-back" ie: fish the madison then go back towards Missoula. Any ideas?

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I will be fishing the Rock Creek Area the first week of August and am looking for an area with accomodations and good fishing someplace in between there and Seattle. I don’t want to "double-back" ie: fish the madison then go back towards Missoula. Any ideas?

I don’t follow what you’re saying…Rock Creek..the one I know…is only 20 miles east of Missoula..the madison is 200 miles southeast…so are you saying you want to fish Rock Creek and then head down to the Madison and then on to Seattle?  If you fish Rock Creek stay with Doug at the Rock Creek Mercantile…down on the Madison the West Fork cabins are an excellent place to stay..between the Madison and Seattle i think you’ll find that it’s difficult to get there from there…have fun trying though…you’ll drive by some pretty good fishing in Idaho while you figure out the easiest way to cross that state from east to west.

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: I will be fishing the Rock Creek Area the first week of August and am : looking for an area with accomodations and good fishing someplace in : between there and Seattle. I don’t want to "double-back" ie: fish the : madison then go back towards Missoula. Any ideas? : I don’t follow what you’re saying…Rock Creek..the one I know…is only : 20 miles east of Missoula..the madison is 200 miles southeast…so are : you saying you want to fish Rock Creek and then head down to the Madison : and then on to Seattle?   I think he is saying he wants to fish Rock Creek then head west.  Two options… stay on I-90 past Kellogg-Wallace, then head south down a bad road to the St. Joe.  Lots of tunnels blasted through rock and wonderful to drive, except when it washes out, which is often.  Look closely at a map and you will see the road I suggest.  There are some cabins down at the St. Joe Inn, but don’t expect a palace.   The easier (and I think you will find better fishing than Rock Creek) is to go through Missoula down to Lolo and head over into Idaho on Highway 12. This will run you along the Lochsa, which joins the Selway to form the Middle Clearwater which joins the South Fork, then the North Fork to form the Clearwater, which joins the Snake, which joins the Columbia which fills the entire Pacific Ocean.  As you might imagine, great fishing is found all along the road but it changes from a small stream to a fairly large stream (g) the farther you go. As for accomodations, I suggest you spend a day or two at Three Rivers Lodge, located at the bottom of the Lochsa at the confluence with the Selway.  This lodge is located about 90 miles from Missoula and has budget cabins or less modest cabins.  It is right on the Lochsa river, but you can also follow the Selway with a road that continues for 20 miles until it reaches the wilderness boundary.  There is also camping available all along the rivers.  The fishing tends to be better for cutthroat and ‘bows the higher you go on any of these rivers.  I should also mention there is the largest steelhead hatchery in the US on the Clearwater near Orofino and there is also a salmon hatchery near Kooskia on the same river.  (Salmon are extremely rare to find, though, but steelhead are a major trophy during the right time of the year.  The Clearwater is fairly large, and a drift boat is recommended.)  Both the Lochsa and the Selway are among the best whitewater rivers in the US.   To get back on the route to Seattle, you can take the long way along the Columbia river, or when you get to Lewiston take highway 195 to Pullman and then continue back up to I-90 in Spokane.  (Or take Highway 26 out of Colfax.)  Look at a map… but the fishing is great in N. Idaho. There you have it… better than a travel agent or and "adventure guide." — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

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To get back on the route to Seattle, you can take the long way along the Columbia river, or when you get to Lewiston take highway 195 to Pullman and then continue back up to I-90 in Spokane.  (Or take Highway 26 out of Colfax.)  Look at a map… but the fishing is great in N. Idaho. There you have it… better than a travel agent or and "adventure guide." — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

There ya go! And you never mentioned fishing in my favorite M*nt*n* stream the B** *ol* !!

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Question:

rec.outdoors.fishing.fly  newsgroup readers

[ ANGLER 2K ]

Question:

Dear Newsgroup, I appologise in advance for dredging up this recurrent question of which waders to buy. I have beeen fly fishing for about a month now and have come to realise the necessity of owning a pair of waders, however, I don’t know what sort to go for. Gortex or Neoprene, stocking with seperate boot or boot inclusive. I am looking for something that is   multi-purpose ie. can be used on rivers, lakes and streams.     Any advice will be gratefully received. J.J. Mc Dougall.

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Dear Newsgroup, I appologise in advance for dredging up this recurrent question of which waders to buy. I have beeen fly fishing for about a month now and have come to realise the necessity of owning a pair of waders, however, I don’t know what sort to go for. Gortex or Neoprene, stocking with seperate boot or boot inclusive. I am looking for something that is multi-purpose ie. can be used on rivers, lakes and streams.     Any advice will be gratefully received. J.J. Mc Dougall.

Hi J.J. Mc Dougall,         I own the Simms Neoprene waders, I feel these are the best waders on the market. They are constructed with a sealed glued and taped seam much like other high quality waders but there is no crotch seam witch is the second most likly spot to spring a leak, the first being the feet of course. The feet on the sims waders are made of a much thicker neoprene and taped with a heavy tacky rubber tape to keep your feet from sliding around in your wading boot. The shoulder strap will click together so on hot days you can fold the chest half of the waders down and wear them as waist height waders. The best feature to me though is how soft they are. You will see alot of people put their neoprenes on over their pants, well they’re not realy meant for that because it gets pretty bulky under there especialy in July. Because there are so soft you don’t have to worry about any chaffing. They come in both Stocking foot and boot foot styles I prefer the stocking foot because I do alot of float tubing and the boot foot does not give you enough ankle movement, the boot foot are however more convenient, so both have pros and cons. I personaly would stay away from the gortex waders they tear easy and I’m told they leak alot they are also not nearly as versitle as neoprenes. Good Luck! Joe Weisenburger jr.

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writes: I appologise in advance for dredging up this recurrent question of

which waders to buy. I have beeen fly fishing for about a month now and have come to

realise the necessity of owning a pair of waders, however, I don’t know what sort to go for.

Gortex or Neoprene, stocking with seperate boot or boot inclusive. I am looking for something that is   multi-purpose ie. can be used on rivers, lakes and streams.    Any advice will be gratefully received. J.J. Mc Dougall.

I recomend you get some catalogs, decide how much time you are willing to spend suiting up(stocking foot waders take more time to put on), how cold the weather is when you will be fishing (thickness of neoprene is some what dependent on this), how many times a year (or days) you wil be fishing(thickness also depends on this), how much money you are willing to spend on waders(life of the waders will depend on this and the previous two). Pick out waders you like inthe catalogs that fit the above criteria, go to your favorite local shop and buy the ones they have that most closely match your catalog pick(this way you have a face to talk to).

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Question:

Hi, I am going to be in Galway, Ireland for a few days and I am thinking about spending one or two of them fishing. I may get a chance to fish the River Courrib (?) for half a day, but I have no idea about anywhere else to go, and many other things, such as: 1. What does a foreigner pay for a permit (?) for a couple of days. 2. Are there any places to fish for free (besides the Gov’t permit mentioned above). 3. What flies might I want to tie up for mid-Sept? Any relevant information would really be appreciated! Thanks, —

Response:

I am going to be in Galway, Ireland for a few days and I am thinking about spending one or two of them fishing. 1. What does a foreigner pay for a permit (?) for a couple of days.

Probably dirt cheap (I found 20 years ago) 2. Are there any places to fish for free (besides

Trout anywhere, salmon nowhere without paying for access (cheap) If there has been recent rain, salmon or seatrout (spate) rivers would be the most fun.  There’s always the Galway River itself, right in the city. In dry weather you can sometimes do OK in hill loughs (need access permit and legs for a long walk). Homework (none recently published): Conor O’Malley’s With a Fishing Rod in Ireland (1975) for geography and T.C. Kingsmill Moore’s A Man May Fish (1960) for folklore and flies (nothing unusual.) —  |          Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Rd., Carlsbad         |  |        Springs, Ont., Canada K0A 1K0; tel: (613) 822-0734       |  |  "What I’ve always liked about science is its independence from |  |  authority"–Ontario Science Centre (name on file) 10 July 1981 |

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