Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So far I’ve got a couple dozen elk hair caddis in various colors, sizes 18-14; a couple dozen pt nymphs in 18-14; another dozen pt with bead chain eyes in 14, a dozen grhe in in 16-18 and another dozen bead heads in 14; a dozen brassies in 16-18; a dozen various colored soft hackle grouse in 16; a dozen pickett pins in 8; half a dozen each of mickey finns, little rainbow trout, black nosed dace, and another nameless concoction of my own, all in bucktail size 8, a half dozen little rainbow trout in size 8 thunder creek style; and the first of what will eventually be three dozen pass lakes (a dozen of which was promised long ago to a tarheel barrister).  I also have a thousand or so miscellaneous leftovers from nearly twenty years of tying.  I’m happy to say that I threw out about two hundred of the latter in the last few days and am making significant progress toward jettisoning the rest. I have yet to tie up a supply of woolly buggers, woolly worms, scuds, all the mayflies (which I detest), especially including a bunch of sulfurs (o.k., I DID pay a little bit of attention), and a whole bunch of other stuff I can’t remember at the moment. I’m willing…nay, eager, to listen to any recommendations.  How will you be armed? Wolfgang

Not that I’m an expert on Penns Creek, but I recommend checking out Tom L’s fly list if you haven’t already.  Your nymph list sounds right on, and I bet your streamers will work too if you find the fish and get deep.  I got skunked nymphing the first few days because I didn’t understand limestone creeks (way different that what I’m used to).  I have been assured by the dedicated bottom scrapers that nymphing does work and this year I expect to try it at least once… For dries, make sure you have an assortment of march brown, gray fox and sulphurs.  I did OK with showshoe hare wings and comparadums last year.  The sulphurs on Penns come in at least three colors, about size 16, from pale yellow (almost cream) to bright orange.  The fish weren’t too picky about exact color.  I’ll also have a bunch of sulphur, tan and rusty spinners. The march browns are big – size 12.  I lost the link to Tom’s page, but I copied his fly pictures at: http://members.bellatlantic.net/~sgula/penns/index.html Hope that helps. –Stan

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Still trying to get my schedule changed so I can work Friday night and have Saturday off. If nothing else maybe I could get up there and fish for a few hour’s late Saturday. Anybody fishing on Sunday?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Taking inventory after our early March adventure, Joel and I have both discovered that we have some toes left which weren’t frozen off up on the Prairie, so we plan to go up again and finish the job on the weekend of April 6-7.  A couple of other people have already expressed interest.  The plan is simply to meet at Champs in Merrill for breakfast on Saturday morning and then head out to the stream.  Unless we hear otherwise, let’s plan to meet at 7:30 or so and take it from there.  Information about accommodations, directions, etc. is available by looking through the archives for threads about the "Prairie" about a month ago, or I can email particulars for anyone who needs the information. Come one, come all. Wolfgang

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Not that I’m an expert on Penns Creek, but I recommend checking out Tom L’s fly list if you haven’t already.  Your nymph list sounds right on, and I bet your streamers will work too if you find the fish and get deep.  I got skunked nymphing the first few days because I didn’t understand limestone creeks (way different that what I’m used to).  I have been assured by the dedicated bottom scrapers that nymphing does work and this year I expect to try it at least once… For dries, make sure you have an assortment of march brown, gray fox and sulphurs.  I did OK with showshoe hare wings and comparadums last year. The sulphurs on Penns come in at least three colors, about size 16, from pale yellow (almost cream) to bright orange.  The fish weren’t too picky about exact color.  I’ll also have a bunch of sulphur, tan and rusty spinners. The march browns are big – size 12.  I lost the link to Tom’s page, but I copied his fly pictures at: http://members.bellatlantic.net/~sgula/penns/index.html Hope that helps.

Thanks, Stan.  With about 45 days to go I do believe I’ll be able to tie up everything I’ll need.   Um…….in case I don’t though, just how many is in a "bunch" of sulphur, tan and rusty spinners?       Wolfgang willing to trade

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re: Penns flies Thanks, Stan.  With about 45 days to go I do believe I’ll be able to tie up everything I’ll need.   Um…….in case I don’t though, just how many is in a "bunch" of sulphur, tan and rusty spinners?       Wolfgang willing to trade

I only tie 6 of anything.  And then I bring enough material to make more as needed.  My traveling buddy Jim has maybe the best stocked flyboxes in the universe (‘infinitely’ more flies than anybody needs – and I’m sure Frank and Scooter will back me up on that) and I’m adept at borrowing<g. I’m a real minimalist – I use PT nymphs (unbeaded), variations on soft hackles, EHC, Usuals and comparaduns in a variety of colors, and polypro spinners.  Plus several hundred hooks, too many spools of thread, and feathers and furs from a multitude of creatures.  Viiox for my knees, tequila for what’s left of my brain cells, and I’m all set. FWIW – I never saw a spinner fall last year and didn’t use a single spinner, but Tom and Mike Makela insisted there would be a march brown spinner fall…  We saw them hovering, but they never fell. –Stan

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Still trying to get my schedule changed so I can work Friday night and have Saturday off. If nothing else maybe I could get up there and fish for a few hour’s late Saturday. Anybody fishing on Sunday?

Joel informs me that he is, and I plan to as well. Wolfgang

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re: Penns flies I only tie 6 of anything.  And then I bring enough material to make more as needed.  My traveling buddy Jim has maybe the best stocked flyboxes in the universe (‘infinitely’ more flies than anybody needs – and I’m sure Frank and Scooter will back me up on that) and I’m adept at borrowing<g.

Well, I’m not opposes to proxy borrowing, if it comes to that. I’m a real minimalist – I use PT nymphs (unbeaded), variations on soft hackles, EHC, Usuals and comparaduns in a variety of colors, and polypro spinners.  Plus several hundred hooks, too many spools of thread, and feathers and furs from a multitude of creatures.  Viiox for my knees, tequila for what’s left of my brain cells, and I’m all set.

One of the most interesting things about fly fishing, to my mind, is the fact that those of us who tie generally spend untold hours and dollars to tie ever more patterns and then go out and fish with the same half dozen or so as always.  I will almost certainly use ehc, pt and grhe nymphs, and pass FWIW – I never saw a spinner fall last year and didn’t use a single spinner, but Tom and Mike Makela insisted there would be a march brown spinner fall…  We saw them hovering, but they never fell.

Need to bring a shotgun…..with VERY small shot!        :) Wolfgang

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 I will almost certainly use ehc, pt and grhe nymphs, and pass

and those’ll do just fine…of course, til they don’t, because that waldo-like bastard next to you is catching them on a red squirrel’s butt with a chenile wipe, and you’ve tried every motherfukkin fly in your box, but that waldocackle won’t quit and even carp are eatin what he’s got, and… and…well, tie em all… everything you know…tie it… and bring some extra for your friends…with some spare boots…studded only… jeff

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 I will almost certainly use ehc, pt and grhe nymphs, and pass and those’ll do just fine…of course, til they don’t, because that waldo-like bastard next to you is catching them on a red squirrel’s butt with a chenile wipe, and you’ve tried every motherfukkin fly in your box, but that waldocackle won’t quit and even carp are eatin what he’s got, and… and…well, tie em all… everything you know…tie it… and bring some extra for your friends…with some spare boots…studded only…

Yes, we are familiar with the evilwaldobastard and are taking measures to deal with it.  We intend to get it very drunk on cheap cheesehead beer and steal all of it’s things. Sorry, but the stud will be wearing the boots, not vice versa. Wolfgang

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  I will almost certainly use ehc, pt and grhe nymphs, and pass and those’ll do just fine…of course, til they don’t, because that waldo-like bastard next to you is catching them on a red squirrel’s butt with a chenile wipe, and you’ve tried every motherfukkin fly in your box, but that waldocackle won’t quit and even carp are eatin what he’s got, and… and…well, tie em all… everything you know…tie it… and bring some extra for your friends…with some spare boots…studded only… Yes, we are familiar with the evilwaldobastard and are taking measures to deal with it.  We intend to get it very drunk on cheap cheesehead beer and steal all of it’s things. Sorry, but the stud will be wearing the boots, not vice versa. Wolfgang

so what footwear you gonna wear? evilwaldobastard…. catchy <g

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Whoever tied the flies on the blue thingie site below is an excellent fly tier.   Well done! George Gehrke "who will kill for some snowshoe hare) just a little piece? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For dries, make sure you have an assortment of march brown, gray fox and sulphurs.  I did OK with showshoe hare wings and comparadums last year. The sulphurs on Penns come in at least three colors, about size 16, from pale yellow (almost cream) to bright orange.  The fish weren’t too picky about exact color.  I’ll also have a bunch of sulphur, tan and rusty spinners. The march browns are big – size 12.  I lost the link to Tom’s page, but I copied his fly pictures at: http://members.bellatlantic.net/~sgula/penns/index.html Hope that helps. –Stan

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Whoever tied the flies on the blue thingie site below is an excellent fly tier.   Well done! George Gehrke The march browns are big – size 12.  I lost the link to Tom’s page, but I copied his fly pictures at: http://members.bellatlantic.net/~sgula/penns/index.html

For the record, these are all by Tom Littleton.

Response:

Whoever tied the flies on the blue thingie site below is an excellent fly tier.   Well done! George Gehrke The march browns are big – size 12.  I lost the link to Tom’s page, but I copied his fly pictures at: http://members.bellatlantic.net/~sgula/penns/index.html For the record, these are all by Tom Littleton.

Thanks, Stan.  I am especially appreciative of the fact his fly tying signature is to not over dress.  It’s hard to hold back when dubbing.  I also am keen on the hackle job Tom does.  Not many know how to do it as well.  Well done Tom and Again, thanks, Stan – George

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Taking inventory after our early March adventure, Joel and I have both discovered that we have some toes left which weren’t frozen off up on the Prairie, so we plan to go up again and finish the job on the weekend of April 6-7.  A couple of other people have already expressed interest.  The plan is simply to meet at Champs in Merrill for breakfast on Saturday morning and then head out to the stream.  Unless we hear otherwise, let’s plan to meet at 7:30 or so and take it from there.  Information about accommodations, directions, etc. is available by looking through the archives for threads about the "Prairie" about a month ago, or I can email particulars for anyone who needs the information. Come one, come all. Wolfgang

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Taking inventory after our early March adventure, Joel and I have both discovered that we have some toes left which weren’t frozen off up on the Prairie, so we plan to go up again and finish the job on the weekend of April 6-7.  A couple of other people have already expressed interest.  The plan is simply to meet at Champs in Merrill for breakfast on Saturday morning and then head out to the stream.  Unless we hear otherwise, let’s plan to meet at 7:30 or so and take it from there.  Information about accommodations, directions, etc. is available by looking through the archives for threads about the "Prairie" about a month ago, or I can email particulars for anyone who needs the information. Come one, come all. Wolfgang

The pack ice is out and all the polar bears have wandered north following the caribou. They should be crossing the U.P. border by the 6th, so there should be no concern about large predators. Stoneflies (the little ones) will probably be on the trouts menu. Just a note: tthe Prairie is only open for the early season from Hwy J downstream. Still about 10 miles of good trout water. G.Cleveland

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The pack ice is out and all the polar bears have wandered north following the caribou. They should be crossing the U.P. border by the 6th, so there should be no concern about large predators. Stoneflies (the little ones) will probably be on the trouts menu. Just a note: tthe Prairie is only open for the early season from Hwy J downstream. Still about 10 miles of good trout water.

You got any favorite patterns for the little stones? Wolfgang who has got a great start on penn’s flies and can now spare a bit of time for other matters.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The pack ice is out and all the polar bears have wandered north following the caribou. They should be crossing the U.P. border by the 6th, so there should be no concern about large predators. Stoneflies (the little ones) will probably be on the trouts menu. Just a note: tthe Prairie is only open for the early season from Hwy J downstream. Still about 10 miles of good trout water. You got any favorite patterns for the little stones? Wolfgang who has got a great start on penn’s flies and can now spare a bit of time for other matters.

Nothing special. I’m a generic fly kind of guy. A Dark Hares Ear Nymph in  a size 16 hook works for me. Muskrat nymphs also are good, as are Zug Bugs. If the air temps get up in the 50s having a few #22 BWOs would probably be a good idea. See y’all at Champs. G.Cleveland

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Wolfgang who has got a great start on penn’s flies and can now spare a bit of time for other matters.

What are you tying? Willi

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You got any favorite patterns for the little stones? Wolfgang who has got a great start on penn’s flies and can now spare a bit of time for other matters. Nothing special. I’m a generic fly kind of guy. A Dark Hares Ear Nymph in  a size 16 hook works for me. Muskrat nymphs also are good, as are Zug Bugs. If the air temps get up in the 50s having a few #22 BWOs would probably be a good idea. See y’all at Champs.

Excellent.  Thanks George.  Breakfast is on me. Wolfgang

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Wolfgang who has got a great start on penn’s flies and can now spare a bit of time for other matters. What are you tying?

Well, I’ll begin by confessing that I haven’t paid a whole lot of attention to what others have been saying I SHOULD be tying…more adventurous that way, don’tcha know.   So far I’ve got a couple dozen elk hair caddis in various colors, sizes 18-14; a couple dozen pt nymphs in 18-14; another dozen pt with bead chain eyes in 14, a dozen grhe in in 16-18 and another dozen bead heads in 14; a dozen brassies in 16-18; a dozen various colored soft hackle grouse in 16; a dozen pickett pins in 8; half a dozen each of mickey finns, little rainbow trout, black nosed dace, and another nameless concoction of my own, all in bucktail size 8, a half dozen little rainbow trout in size 8 thunder creek style; and the first of what will eventually be three dozen pass lakes (a dozen of which was promised long ago to a tarheel barrister).  I also have a thousand or so miscellaneous leftovers from nearly twenty years of tying.  I’m happy to say that I threw out about two hundred of the latter in the last few days and am making significant progress toward jettisoning the rest. I have yet to tie up a supply of woolly buggers, woolly worms, scuds, all the mayflies (which I detest), especially including a bunch of sulfurs (o.k., I DID pay a little bit of attention), and a whole bunch of other stuff I can’t remember at the moment. I’m willing…nay, eager, to listen to any recommendations.  How will you be armed? Wolfgang

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Question:

The drift IS the presentation.

You took the words right out of my mouth.  Maybe he means the cast?? FiddleAway

Response:

The drift IS the presentation. Joel Axelrad **DFD**

yup, you guys are too sharp. <g and…. dang, them oregon rogues (dead guy ale) last night surely worked their magic on this poboy. –ww

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Substitute "fly selection" for "presentation" and I still say Waldo’s dead on right. At least on the wild streams of NC anyway. –Steve

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The drift IS the presentation. Joel Axelrad **DFD**

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…. dang, them oregon rogues (dead guy ale) last night surely worked their magic on this poboy.

I like the 22 ouncers.  You can hang the empties on your belt for ballast.  Makes falling into bed (or somewhere near it anyway) a lot easier. Wolfgang and they glow in the dark!!

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some may argue, pointless and without scope i may respectively add, that the drift is secondary to the presentation. i present, wickedly, that the drift is omnipotent. in scope….. jo jo left his home… (sorry, beatles cd in player) argue.. bitch.. cuss if you feel it necessary…. the drift is the cause, the glory, the prescience. doubt? surely you have observed the subtle twitch, the soft turn, the, the… the take…. on the proper drift. been there…. enuff to be comfortable with this knowledge…. –wataugan walt

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TROLL! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – some may argue, pointless and without scope i may respectively add, that the drift is secondary to the presentation. i present, wickedly, that the drift is omnipotent. in scope….. jo jo left his home… (sorry, beatles cd in player) argue.. bitch.. cuss if you feel it necessary…. the drift is the cause, the glory, the prescience. doubt? surely you have observed the subtle twitch, the soft turn, the, the… the take…. on the proper drift. been there…. enuff to be comfortable with this knowledge…. –wataugan walt

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You are right.  The Drift/Mend are one and the same, or put another way, "The Mend" is part of the cast.  I always mend on every cast even if I’m fishing straight down stream. Trust me.  You don’t want to go there.  For example, when one is fly fishing downstream and they lift their fly rod to drag their fly back upstream, that is the cast and then when they pull the fly a little right or left to align the fly along a current seam and then they lower the rod to start the fly drifting down again, that is the mend. Walter, you have it down cold as I know you are a very savvy fly fisherman All’s Fair With Fur or Feather gg

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some may argue, pointless and without scope i may respectively add, that the drift is secondary to the presentation. i present, wickedly, that the drift is omnipotent.

<SNIP Hopefully somebody got your drift. TL MC

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some may argue, pointless and without scope i may respectively add, that the drift is secondary to the presentation. i present, wickedly, that the drift is omnipotent. <SNIP Hopefully somebody got your drift.

The drift…er, well, he sounds like he in his cups, or at least, under the boardwalk, lusting after a rose in Spanish Harlem….well, as long as he doesn’t go up on the roof…. TC, R …down by the sea….

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The drift IS the presentation. Joel Axelrad **DFD**

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some may argue, pointless and without scope i may respectively add, that the drift is secondary to the presentation. i present, wickedly, that the drift is omnipotent.

<SNIP Wailing, weeping, moaning, the sounds of weary lamentation, drifting down the stream, result of  fairly wicked presentation, argument and cursing, floating eerily, with but little hope, t

Question:

Nothing has a probability of one, except the likelyhood of me getting wind knots on a trip. Lou

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I recall that the Law of Large Numbers allows one to derive that if an event has a non-zero probability, then if you conduct the experiment an infinite (or very large) number of times, then the event occurs with a probability of one.  So this means that if I cast a fly line an infinite number of times, I’m bound to catch a fish.  So, every time I go practice casting in the sound, then I’m just working off those non-occuring casts, no?  {Aside, I did have a couple of bad days last summer where I actually caught a fish, so I must have a lot more non-productive castst to work off….} Happy New Year!!! john

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I recall that the Law of Large Numbers allows one to derive that if an event has a non-zero probability, then if you conduct the experiment an infinite (or very large) number of times, then the event occurs with a probability of one.  So this means that if I cast a fly line an infinite number of times, I’m bound to catch a fish.  So, every time I go practice casting in the sound, then I’m just working off those non-occuring casts, no?  

No. The trials are independent (assuming you aren’t learning anything as you go along). {Aside, I did have a couple of bad days last summer where I actually caught a fish, so I must have a lot more non-productive castst to work off….}

I have an fool-proof system for roulette you might be interested in. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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Logic and calculus don’t always go together.  Combined with something as illogical as fishing it’s a complete waste of time. Try rotating the function   Y= -1/X about the Y axix and compute both the volume and the area of the surface you have created.  It has a finite volume and an infinite surface area. Which means…. You can get enough paint to fill the shape but you can’t get enough paint to paint it. I recall that the Law of Large

Happy New Year!!!

Good thought  I’ll second that. BJC

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I recall that the Law of Large Numbers allows one to derive that if an event has a non-zero probability, then if you conduct the experiment an infinite (or very large) number of times, then the event occurs with a probability of one.  So this means that if I cast a fly line an infinite number of times, I’m bound to catch a fish.  So, every time I go practice casting in the sound, then I’m just working off those non-occuring casts, no?  {Aside, I did have a couple of bad days last summer where I actually caught a fish, so I must have a lot more non-productive castst to work off….} Happy New Year!!! john

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Question:

Call the Blacktail Ranch near Wolf Creek Montana.

Or Dick Klick up at Augusta.  Don’t remember the name of the place, but it’s up against the Bob.  You’ll not find more beautiful country, the cutts in the Sun river are multitudinous and "unsophisticated," horse back and hot springs are at your disposal and the further you’re willing to go into the wilderness, the bigger and better the fish.  Plus you won’t have the hordes you’ll have down in the Madison/Paradise Vallies.

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Call the Blacktail Ranch near Wolf Creek Montana.  It is a working cattle ranch with excellent fishing in a small stream and in a series of beaver ponds with big trout.  You can choose a camping option that is very reasonable.  If you want to fish big water you can go to the Missouri and hire a guide to fish down from Hardy Bridge.  It is my favorite part of Montana. Ted Lannan

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Here’s a wide open question: I have the opportunity to go fishing with two old friends in July or August pretty much anywhere out West.  I have fly fished for quite a while but my two friends have never done it at all.  I have the idea that a lodge with guides etc which has some "easy" water nearby (a casting pond with trout) as well as some more challenging rivers nearby would be ideal. We’re in good shape and can hike a bit I have looked through Sports Afield’s Guide to Fishing Lodges, the Orvis catalog, done web searched etc and I am totally bewildered by the sheer number of lodges. I am interested in comments/recommendations on lodges – as well as any other ideas (e.g. float trips).  Our budget is not huge, but we can spend some money this one time. Thanks for the help, Patrick Keith-Hynes

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Question:

I have gotten skunked on the west branch – even worse, I was skunked when big fish were sloppily rising all up and down the eddy.  That place is the grad school, my friend. Pete C

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I’ve fished the W. Br. for about 20 years. You’re right about it being the grad. school. I consider it to be the major leagues of fly fishing. The ‘regulars’ like me who fish it like to say that if you can catch trout on a DRY fly on the Delaware, you can catch trout anywhere. I’ve also fished the Bighorn and although the W. Br. may not be quite the fishery that the  Bighorn is, in my opinion it is a close second. And it could even get better if it wasn’t for the screwed-up releases from the Cannonsville dam.

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I just got back from the WB and in all honesty I think there is a little fly shop.  I went in and started asking a few questions.  As soon as they found out I had not fished the river there were the typical don’t expect to catch anything comments.  Yada Yada Yada. The afternoon (this past Wed) was hot and the river a bit warm.  Nothing got started with regards to hatches or rises until about 45 minutes before dark. On my first cast I  got a solid take but did not connect.  From then on I got nothing but it was getting dark and frankly I couldn’t see my fly and with the wate a little high the wading to get to the rises was tricky.  Sixty foot casts at dusk are not productive where ever you fish. Next day the wind was blowing a gale and I spent most of the time sight seeing.  Got on the water around 7 pm and withing 15 minutes was into a brown trout that broke me off.  I forgot to st the hook when my line went peeling off the reel.  That I never see! After that there was little activity until just before dark.  A guy upstream got a 12" trout, I got one about 8." The next morning I got into my first Delaware Rainbow, about 18".  What a ball.  It took a small yellow stonefly dry dragging under the  surface.  So much for precice presentation. Yesterday before I left the river was finally down to a reasonably wadable level and within 15 minutes I had two browns between 12 – 14".  With all due respect to the entomologists out there (myself included); they took a wooly bugger on a quartering downstream cast. I had a great time and plan on returning but if you plan to go don’t let the fly shops intimidate you into thinking the fish cannot be caught.  Given the windy conditions my time on the river was limited and I met with success pretty quickly and without much effort.

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Upon my first trip to the Delaware, I was dismayed by the fact that the river hosted nothing but flyfishers. I suppose after years of being almost the only flyfisherman around on the rivers I fish, I’ve gotten used to being in the minority. Then I showed up at the Delaware…and all I saw were flyfishermen! It seemed as though no sane spincaster would dare set foot upon the hallowed waters… I asked one fellow along the bank if any spincasters fished the river. His half-joke, half-serious reply was "I keep a slingshot and paint balls handy, and if I see any, I plug ‘em!" Also, in the FYI department: We looked forward to staying at the Delaware River Club’s campground, which supposedly has "80 campsites." When we arrived, about 65 of the campsites (including all the prime spots along the river) were occupied by year-round campers with RVs. Furthermore, more than half of those campers weren’t around that weekend. This ticked us off considerably, as we had to "squat" on an RVers site who didn’t show for the weekend. The DRC campsite appears to be the only game in town, so you don’t have much choice. I’d say they almost try to discourage fishermen from other regions from coming with this kind of "welcome mat." I’m not prone to griping, but it made a fishless weekend a bit less pleasant! Scott Wilkinson

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I don’t think it’s snobbery when the fly shops say that the WB is a tough stream on which to catch trout. I believe that the shops are referring to how difficult it can be to catch trout on a DRY fly. It’s my belief that 90% of the fishermen on the WB are there for the dry fly action, and the dry fly action can get to be very challenging to the WB newbie.  I’m almost exclusively a dryfly person and I only live 40 miles from the WB, so I’ve fished it very often over the last 20 years and I can say that I’ve been humbled many times on that river during periods when the trout were rising. Yes, the fish there can be caught on a dry. That’s why I’m addicted to that river, but it can get very challenging at times, even for the WB veteran.  

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I enjoyed my trip to the WB but didn’t appreciate the attitude of the fly shop guys. The assumption was that I wouldn’t catch anything since it was the first time on the river.  Thanks for the encouragement.  I’ve been fly fishing for 20 + years, mostly over wild trout os I don’t need to shell out 200 + bucks to have someone hold my hand.  Half the fun is solving the problems by yourself. Bottom line with me was the fish were not rising particularly regularly and the good old woolly bugger did the trick. I’m looking forward to going back.  

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Yes, it’s extremely rare to see a spin fisherman on the Delaware. Of course, as a flyfisherman only, I also get the stares when I flyfish some of the put and take streams here in upstate NY during early April before the Delaware rounds into shape in late April. When I show up on the stream with my vest, chest waders and fly rod, the spin fishermen look at me as if I just got off a spaceship. And when I catch a trout on a fly and then return it to the stream, then they know for sure that I just arrived from another planet.

Response:

Question:

Anybody know of decent kitchenette/condo accomodations close to the quality water on the San Juan River in New Mexico?  Looking for a place with a kitchen and a separate bedroom. John F

Response:

Anybody know of decent kitchenette/condo accomodations close to the quality water on the San Juan River in New Mexico?  Looking for a place with a kitchen and a separate bedroom. John F

Hi John You might try Abe’s Motel & Fly Shop at Navaho Dam. I’ve never been there but they are sure nice to talk with on the phone. — Tight Lines ….. Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products On line catalog – tips & tricks at: http://www.btsflyfishing.com

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        Does anybody know a good place to stay near the quality water on the San Juan, where they have units with two rooms?  Like a kitchenette with a bedroom and a sofabed in the main room?  The only place I’ve stayed there, is Abe’s, and I don’t recall they had any rooms like that.         Also, is the fishing usually good there in late September/early October?

The Best Western in Farmington!  I’m getting soft, but the hot tub and pool!! Not to much of a drive to the river. Doug — Doug & Tammy Stephens Paris, Idaho

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        Does anybody know a good place to stay near the quality water on the San Juan, where they have units with two rooms?  Like a kitchenette with a bedroom and a sofabed in the main room?  The only place I’ve stayed there, is Abe’s, and I don’t recall they had any rooms like that.         Also, is the fishing usually good there in late September/early October?

each passing year with the competition.  Best to take a camper.  Stay as independent as you can be here.  We pull a camper, can sleep four, cook ourselves, wax away near the river.  Several other places are available but buyer beware.  Your money can go fast here. — George Gehrke/President Gehrke’s World’s Best Fly Fishing Products Snake River – Hell’s Canyon Asotin, WA 99402 / 509-243-4100  FAX 4644

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        Does anybody know a good place to stay near the quality water on the San Juan, where they have units with two rooms?  Like a kitchenette with a bedroom and a sofabed in the main room?  The only place I’ve stayed there, is Abe’s, and I don’t recall they had any rooms like that.         Also, is the fishing usually good there in late September/early October?

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Question:

My wife and I are looking for a good lodge to use as a base for weekend of FF. We would like something in Western Pa and are willing to go as far east as Potter County.  Any Ideas would be appreciated. Thanks Marc Bloch

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My wife and I are looking for a good lodge to use as a base for weekend of FF. We would like something in Western Pa and are willing to go as far east as Potter County.  Any Ideas would be appreciated. Thanks Marc Bloch

I don’t know about the availability of lodges but the fishing in Tioga County   is great.  My family has a cabin near Wellsboro.  Fishing the Pennsylvania Grand Canyon  (ie.  Pine Creek ) was some of the better fishing that I’ve done   in a long while.  Best of luck.   Dave

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Try Big Moores Run lodge near Coudersport, PA.  They have several miles of Big Moores Run divided into beats. They also have some lake fishing for 1-3# average size rainbows and browns.  They allow float tubing.  The lodge itself is an Orvis endorsed lodge.

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Question:

I’m canoing the Bowron Lake circuit next week and I don’t know what kind of fish I will find – trout, walleye, or northern pike?  Somebody please give me some advice on what to bring and what I’ll find.  Thanks…

Trout. — Isaac Lake President – Recreational Canoeing Association of British Columbia Master Instructor

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Mountain House and Alpenlite are the lures most likely to supply a decent meal on the Bowron Lakes.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m canoing the Bowron Lake circuit next week and I don’t know what kind of fish I will find – trout, walleye, or northern pike?  Somebody please The fishing is particularly good in June, in fact.  Mostly trout, including big lake trout down deep and some amazing rainbows.  Also a few whitefish.  Try paddling slow with  a white apex spoon about 3 inches long, down deep with about 2 ounces of weight. Fly fishing also works in close to shores. The guy who said to try freeze dried because its a park doesn’t know what he’s talking about.  Just make sure to get a fresh water licence from any sporting goods store and follow the regulations they give you.  Basically, 12 inch minimum. Dan Burnett Vancouver, B.C., Canada Tel: 604-691-7506  Fax:604-688-2827

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I’m canoing the Bowron Lake circuit next week and I don’t know what kind of fish I will find – trout, walleye, or northern pike?  Somebody please

The fishing is particularly good in June, in fact.  Mostly trout, including big lake trout down deep and some amazing rainbows.  Also a few whitefish.  Try paddling slow with  a white apex spoon about 3 inches long, down deep with about 2 ounces of weight. Fly fishing also works in close to shores. The guy who said to try freeze dried because its a park doesn’t know what he’s talking about.  Just make sure to get a fresh water licence from any sporting goods store and follow the regulations they give you.  Basically, 12 inch minimum. Dan Burnett Vancouver, B.C., Canada Tel: 604-691-7506  Fax:604-688-2827

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I’m canoing the Bowron Lake circuit next week and I don’t know what kind of fish I will find – trout, walleye, or northern pike?  Somebody please give me some advice on what to bring and what I’ll find.  Thanks…

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I’m canoing the Bowron Lake circuit next week and I don’t know what kind of fish I will find – trout, walleye, or northern pike?  Somebody please

Bring freeze dried- it’s a park. ian iGIVE ME Some advice on what to bring and what I’ll find.  Thanks…

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Question:

Does anyone know if fishing is permitted on the Prisons property of Spring Creek???                                        Brian

The answer to this question is yes and no.  You cannot fish on the prison property where it is posted. This includes a stretch above and below the area mentioned by another poster.  He is talking about turning onto Shiloh Road at the white church and fishing the Benner Springs hatchery stretch.  There has been quite a bit of controversy over this area in the past few years. Much of the access at Benner Springs has been taken away along with the parking which used to be available.  The Fish commission says it isn’t trying to keep people from fishing there but they have taken away parking, taken to closing the gates earlier, and generally made it very difficult to enjoy. The Yes part to your question about fishing prison land…most of where you can fish between Shiloh Road and the Paradise area IS prison land.  The DEC and prison have agreements.  If you fish anywhere in this stretch, the land surrounding the stream and up the hills, on both sides, is prison land. You’ll notice signs which post for trespass and No Hunting all along here. If you stick to the public access waters you ARE fishing prison land.  Can you fish the other posted areas of prison land…not legally.  It is your choice. For all the fantastic fishing available in the open waters I don’t feel the need to take a chance at hitting the posted waters.                              Scott

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Does anyone know if fishing is permitted on the Prisons property of Spring Creek???                                         Brian —

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Hi Brian,    I’ve fished on prison property near the fish hatchery below the State Trooper barracks.  I’m not sure of the name of the road but I can give you directions.  From State College head towards the Nittany Mall.  Get on Rt. 150 (Benner Pike) headed towards Bellefonte and take a left at the second Mall entrance (at the little white church).  Go down that road until you run into the prison property.  Do not take a left on Trout Road.  You’ll run into a gate and if you read the sign, they close the gate at 9:00PM. You must be out at that time, they’re pretty good about not closing the gate if they see cars parked there.  There are some big fish (16-24") in there.  E-Mail me at the Internet address below the next time you plan on fly-fishing, I try to get out everyday.  See you later.

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Question:

When in doubt, go with the fun stuff. Buy the fishing outfit. Chances are you’ll use it more and longer. Mike T. — WebRunner Running Page — Southeast USA Club & Race Listings 200+ listings. Advertise your race. Club Home Pages. http://www.catalog.com/webrun/running/running.html

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Neither–Get yourself a good set of Golf clubs! Everone has taken up flyfishing, and the courses are almost empty. For exercise, carry your own clubs and jog,that"ll keep that ticker pumpin.There are beautiful courses everywhere,except Idaho.The chemists have destroyed the good grass in that state, with all those potato experiments. This is a joke–Don’t want to piss off any Idaho golfers.

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I have both.  Believe me, I can cast a lot farther with a fly rod.

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My birthday is in a couple of days and I expect to get some money.  I have decided to give due regard to the advice from the good folks at rec.running and rec.outdoors.fishing.fly. Where to spend my money?

Two answers:         When you are older and your lower body is a cantidate for complete skeleton replacement from marathoning your hips, ankles, and knees into mush. You will really appreciate the first-class fly rig. A heart rate monitor will just be junk by then.         Flip a coin. If you dislike the outcome you’ll know you’ve been playing a game with yourself.                 Bob

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I am a novice marathoner who fishes.  I’ve run one marathon this year (Napa Valley) and would like to improve my time for the Portland Marathon by using a heart rate monitor.  I also enjoy fishing.  I have some backpacking fly equipment but I would like to let my elitest-self shine with a real fly fishing outfit. Where to spend my money? Steve, run out and buy yourself a fly fishing outfit… David E. Malone All opinions expressed are my own.

Steve, Its apparant your training is suffering from a lack of obsession. I refer you to Calvin and Hobbes from about two weeks ago.  T Training with a monitor lets you micro  analyze your pperformance with the goal being to satisy such standards as your training log and other people who wear monitors. Also there’s a coolness factor related to who might be impressed by the purchases.  Fish or friends?   I have trained with a monitor for a year.  Has it helped?  Got me. It is a diversion and something to do on those long runs. Steve Rogers When the going gets tough, blah, blah, blah

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[deleted] : My birthday is in a couple of days and I expect to get some money.  I : have decided to give due regard to the advice from the good folks at : rec.running and rec.outdoors.fishing.fly. Neither…buy a pair of Reabok Pumps and go fishing…then, if you fall in, your feet will float up and someone will be able to spot you. Tim Walker

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You ask whether to buy a heart rate monitor or a fly fishing outfit? Definitely the flyfishing outfit.  Enjoying it will lower your heart rate

Just don’t start flyfishing in the midst of the heavy hatches…you may end it all holding your breath for that monster to suck  in YOUR fly instead of the natural inches from it. Steve D.

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I am a novice marathoner who fishes.  I’ve run one marathon this year (Napa Valley) and would like to improve my time for the Portland Marathon by using a heart rate monitor.  I also enjoy fishing.  I have some backpacking fly equipment but I would like to let my elitest-self shine with a real fly fishing outfit. Where to spend my money?

Look to the future and buy the fly rod.  I have a sister and two brothers who ran marathons and they are now virtually crippled (not  really, but they get sore knees).  I have flyfished instead for 25 years and feel as good as ever. Watch your backcast on that elitist stuff. Believe it or not, this can be the cheapest way to fish other than zebco and hand dug bait. I fished for years with a $10 St.croix and $2 reel and flies tied mostly from free knitting samples.   Now that I have some disposable income I do my best to keep a few local fly shops in business, but fancy tackle adds little to the value of the experience of getting a mile or ten away from the crowds and finding some wild trout, then tricking them, admiring their brilliant beauty, then releasing or cooking them. I think the heartrate monitor is just going to cause you excess worry about the fine tuning of your body, but does this really relax you?    What does it add to your life?   How does it relate to your future personna as geezer? If you start flyfishing regularly now, you’ll have a great recreational life that will last as long as you will.  Youngsters will much rather hear your fishing stories than running stories.  By flyfishing you can do your part to honor your elders while preparing youself to become a great one. This youth stuff is just a passing trend; give up holding onto it and go fishing!  You have  little chance of winning any major marathons but a virtual guarantee of mastering our fine sport, since you have email. You can get that same sense of well-being and accomplishment by hiking half that far and fishing a day or two.  If you really crave that burn, drive over to the east side of the sierra in late July or August this year and hike straight up to 11,000 ft and fish for Goldens. If you still aren’t tired, carry my pack too. Once the runoff settles down this will be a great year here in California. Get the fly rod. mark vinsel Visit my gallery: http://www.lanminds.com/local/vinnie/gallery.HTML

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: [deleted] : : My birthday is in a couple of days and I expect to get some money.  I : : have decided to give due regard to the advice from the good folks at : : rec.running and rec.outdoors.fishing.fly. : Neither…buy a pair of Reabok Pumps and go fishing…then, if you : fall in, your feet will float up and someone will be able to spot you. And if the shoes don’t fit, Reebok Pumps make dandy strike indicators. Rick — T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Assistant professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    |  These University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    |  opinions Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. |  are mine.  

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Get both. Many new runners pack up when they find that it takes discipline and effort to get fit. There are many HRMs lying dormant in people homes unused. I’ve just bought one for 10 pounds second hand. Look in your local paper I’m sure you’ll find one. Simon — Simon Walsh    

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: Wierd title?  So is my dilemma: : I am a novice marathoner who fishes.  I’ve run one marathon this year : (Napa Valley) and would like to improve my time for the Portland : Marathon by using a heart rate monitor.  I also enjoy fishing.  I have some : backpacking fly equipment but I would like to let my elitest-self shine : with a real fly fishing outfit. : My birthday is in a couple of days and I expect to get some money.  I : have decided to give due regard to the advice from the good folks at : rec.running and rec.outdoors.fishing.fly. : Where to spend my money? : Steve My vote is for the flyfishing gear.  As a bonus I offer you my "cheap" heart rate monitor:   If you’re breathing, its beating.  If you’re not breathing, it’s probably stopped (or will shortly). (sippinElkMountainAmberAleandrootinfortheBarracudainLongBeachCalifornia wheretheearthmovesundermyfeet)

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: Neither–Get yourself a good set of Golf clubs! Everone has taken up : flyfishing, and the courses are almost empty. For exercise, carry your : own clubs and jog,that"ll keep that ticker pumpin.There are beautiful : courses everywhere,except Idaho.The chemists have destroyed the good : grass in that state, with all those potato experiments. : This is a joke–Don’t want to piss off any Idaho golfers. Hey, hey, hey!!!  Whatchit buddy.  This state still has the fighting words law.  That means I can bust you in the chops for saying such things and all the cops will do is make fun of your glass jaw or my right hook! Rick — T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Assistant professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    |  These University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    |  opinions Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. |  are mine.  

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Wierd title?  So is my dilemma: I am a novice marathoner who fishes.  I’ve run one marathon this year (Napa Valley) and would like to improve my time for the Portland Marathon by using a heart rate monitor.  I also enjoy fishing.  I have some backpacking fly equipment but I would like to let my elitest-self shine with a real fly fishing outfit. My birthday is in a couple of days and I expect to get some money.  I have decided to give due regard to the advice from the good folks at rec.running and rec.outdoors.fishing.fly. Where to spend my money? Steve

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I am a novice marathoner who fishes.  I’ve run one marathon this year (Napa Valley) and would like to improve my time for the Portland Marathon by using a heart rate monitor.  I also enjoy fishing.  I have some backpacking fly equipment but I would like to let my elitest-self shine with a real fly fishing outfit. Where to spend my money?

Steve, run out and buy yourself a fly fishing outfit… David E. Malone All opinions expressed are my own.

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If you often overtrain, get the HRM.  If you need more protein, get the fishing equipment.  Otherwise, you’ll just have to decide for yourself. — Ray Charbonneau    | MIT Library Systems| Everyone is entitled to my opinion.  *Disclaimer? Why?*|

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Buy the fly fishing gear and go have fun.  You’ll be more relaxed for your training and will in turn run farther and faster.  Besides, I’ve not yet met a marathon runner who has trained with a heart rate monitor, so I’m sure you can train hard enough to improve your time without one.   Buy the heart rate monitor next year, and don’t go out too fast in Portland, as the crowds during the first part of the race might make you go faster than you should. Best fishes, Dan

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You ask whether to buy a heart rate monitor or a fly fishing outfit? Definitely the flyfishing outfit.  Enjoying it will lower your heart rate so low you won’t have to worry about a heart rate monitor…..

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