Question:

Nothing ventured, nothing gained…go for it.  My experience on Lakes Michigan and Superior in a 24-ft cabin boat has been good, but I venture out with radar, GPS-chartplotter, Loran, 2 VHF radios, 2 depthfinders, and a backup 15-hp outboard motor.  And I nearly always see, at the boat launch, some crusty old fisherman heading out in a 14-ft jon boat with 25-hp outboard…amazing balls. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, I fish regularly at Halfmoon Bay up to Pacifca (CA) for salmon, halibut, etc. I want to go out farther for Albacore but have never ventured more than a couple miles offshore. I have fished through 10ft swells but never any high winds. With my etrex GPS and handheld VHF, can I go out 25 miles offshore in my 120HP, 30gallons, 20ft cuddy or does that sound crazy? Any opinions would be appreciated…thank you.

Response:

Unless you get 4 miles to the gallon, forget it.  1/3 out, 1/3 in and a 1/3 in reserve.  Tuna requires trolling, lots at about 8-9 mph.  Not enough fuel capacity, unless the albies get inside of about 10 miles.  I have a 21′ and carry 67 gallon, and get about 2 mpg and I won’t do it.  Post a request to be a hitchhiker on the www.Coastsidefishingclub.com board and you will get a ride and live to fish again. Bill

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, I fish regularly at Halfmoon Bay up to Pacifca (CA) for salmon, halibut, etc. I want to go out farther for Albacore but have never ventured more than a couple miles offshore. I have fished through 10ft swells but never any high winds. With my etrex GPS and handheld VHF, can I go out 25 miles offshore in my 120HP, 30gallons, 20ft cuddy or does that sound crazy? Any opinions would be appreciated…thank you. I’ve gone 20-30 miles in the Atlantic in smaller boats than that. You really need expertise in weather observation, a high antenna on a fixed, not portable, VHF radio, an extra battery and enough smarts to know when not to go out. And bring along a spare six gallon tank and hose. Try going out in the company of a couple of boats. And buy yourself some Type I life jackets, the real deal kind, and consider an EPIRB. Make sure you have a way to climb back in your boat if you get knocked overboard. Same here.  The buddy system applies.  Dont’ quite agree with the 6 gallon tank theory, however.  That would get me about 5 miles closer before I choke…..

Response:

Hello, Thanks for the replies and will not venture out without the recommendations. No EPIRB here. Just some safety flares. The boats a 1990 Bayliner cuddy, dual batteries, reliable with rebuilt powerhead. I bought this second hand and always thought it had a 30gallon tank. I always refill the tank before a trip so dont know how much it really holds..lol. thanks! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is all well and good. It is not the size of the boat in question. The boat you mention obviously held a lot more than 30 gallons of fuel. I would also strongly suspect that he had more than a hand held VHF for emergency communication needs. Hello, I fish regularly at Halfmoon Bay up to Pacifca (CA) for salmon, halibut, etc. I want to go out farther for Albacore but have never ventured more than a couple miles offshore. I have fished through 10ft swells but never any high winds. With my etrex GPS and handheld VHF, can I go out 25 miles offshore in my 120HP, 30gallons, 20ft cuddy or does that sound crazy? Tred Barta made his name fishing bigeyes 85-90 miles out of Shinnecock Inlet in the "Randi Strike", a 19′ Mako CC. That was 25 years ago.

Response:

Be nice Harry… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, Thanks for the replies and will not venture out without the recommendations. No EPIRB here. Just some safety flares. The boats a 1990 Bayliner cuddy, dual batteries, reliable with rebuilt powerhead. I bought this second hand and always thought it had a 30gallon tank. I always refill the tank before a trip so dont know how much it really holds..lol. thanks! This is all well and good. It is not the size of the boat in question. The boat you mention obviously held a lot more than 30 gallons of fuel. I would also strongly suspect that he had more than a hand held VHF for emergency communication needs. Hello, I fish regularly at Halfmoon Bay up to Pacifca (CA) for salmon, halibut, etc. I want to go out farther for Albacore but have never ventured more than a couple miles offshore. I have fished through 10ft swells but never any high winds. With my etrex GPS and handheld VHF, can I go out 25 miles offshore in my 120HP, 30gallons, 20ft cuddy or does that sound crazy? Tred Barta made his name fishing bigeyes 85-90 miles out of Shinnecock Inlet in the "Randi Strike", a 19′ Mako CC. That was 25 years ago.

Response:

Be nice Harry…

How can he? He’s the consummate evildoer of this NG. — Skipper

Response:

Hello, Thanks for the replies and will not venture out without the recommendations. No EPIRB here. Just some safety flares. The boats a 1990 Bayliner cuddy, dual batteries, reliable with rebuilt powerhead. I bought this second hand and always thought it had a 30gallon tank. I always refill the tank before a trip so dont know how much it really holds..lol. thanks!

Yikes!  Is it a Force outboard?  I wouldn’t trust that setup, 13 years old, offshore.  Especially if you don’t know how much gas it holds.  How old are the batteries?  Do you have towing insurance?  Just some more questions to think about…

Response:

JAX has just reduced his percentage of useful posts to about 8% with the latests posts…

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ben thur, dun dat writes to tell us just how scared he is of the water with: (way to go, bt,dd) geesh.  another guy tied to the dock when the wind is greater than 8 knots and telling how safety conscious he is. Like Harry, I would strongly suggest an installed VHF with tall antenna – hand held only broadcast 3-5 miles with their 3 watt output max. (you might get a little better in ideal conditions – but don’t bet your life on it! Installed will get you up to around 25 mile range fairly reliably (potential further)- 25 watts out put makes a world of difference. I also agree that EPIRB would be a good idea. But definitely do not trust the hand held VHF to get you help in a jam. Dan touched on what may be an even bigger concern – 30 gallon gas tank. You state that you have a 120 HP. Is this an outboard or I/OF? What is your gas consumption = MPG? If this is a gas I/OF – very common in 20′ cuddies I would be very concerned about getting out 20 miles and back on that amount of fuel. If you hit any surprises in weather – cut MPG in half or more! Most I/Os on that size boat will get around 2 -3 MPG in reasonably calm conditions. Not a lot of room for error. Weather is the real wildcard. Pick your days and keep an eye on the sky. I have been out 20 miles in a center console about that size off Hatters, NC. It is doable…but keep a real close eye on the weather — gets pretty breezy & rough in the area you are talking about. I fished on a charter in that basic area a couple of years ago – charter boat was mid 30′ bridge boat – we got tossed around pretty good. About six weeks ago I was fishing out of Ft. Lauderdale.  We ended up a bit over 20 miles out before we gave up on fishing and decided to go to Bimini (Bahamas).  I found it on my GPSmap 76 and off we went.  It was 58 miles from port to port and we made the trip back in just over two hours.  The amazing part is that we burned only 28 gallons of gas on this 116 mile round trip with at least a hour of trolling included.  We were in my 20′ center console with a 115 four stroke. It’s all a matter of sea conditions and the weather.  This was an incredibly flat day with clear skies.  We were prepared to leave the boat in Bimini and fly back as a last resort if the weather went to hell on us.  This was one of those stupid "so I can say I was there" trips. Typically I will go out only 15 – 20 miles.  At that point there are still plenty of other boats in the area and usually cell phone coverage if the VHF craps out. Are you sure you only have a 30 gallon fuel tank?  That would be my #1 concern.  The handheld VHF would be right there at #2. Dan Hello, I fish regularly at Halfmoon Bay up to Pacifca (CA) for salmon, halibut, etc. I want to go out farther for Albacore but have never ventured more than a couple miles offshore. I have fished through 10ft swells but never any high winds. With my etrex GPS and handheld VHF, can I go out 25 miles offshore in my 120HP, 30gallons, 20ft cuddy or does that sound crazy? Any opinions would be appreciated…thank you.

Response:

Well, I’ve never been "offshore" except twice around Cape Caution, but…    I agree about the redundancy. Get, at the least, a good "get-you-home" kicker with a separate fuel tank.    An in-dash VHF is under $200 – why not? And it sounds like an EPIRB is a good idea too.    Another good idea would be an inflatable dinghy to get into if the boat DOES sink. "Real" offshore boats have special emergency rafts that autoinflate, etc. but you probably don’t need to go that far.    And I can never understand boaters who don’t know how much fuel they carry, or what their range is! DEFINELY find out what your range is, and the range of your kicker, before venturing any distance. Lloyd Sumpter "Valkyrie" Campion 18 – 20 gals, 110mile range – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, Thanks for the replies and will not venture out without the recommendations. No EPIRB here. Just some safety flares. The boats a 1990 Bayliner cuddy, dual batteries, reliable with rebuilt powerhead. I bought this second hand and always thought it had a 30gallon tank. I always refill the tank before a trip so dont know how much it really holds..lol. thanks! This is all well and good. It is not the size of the boat in question. The boat you mention obviously held a lot more than 30 gallons of fuel. I would also strongly suspect that he had more than a hand held VHF for emergency communication needs. Hello, I fish regularly at Halfmoon Bay up to Pacifca (CA) for salmon, halibut, etc. I want to go out farther for Albacore but have never ventured more than a couple miles offshore. I have fished through 10ft swells but never any high winds. With my etrex GPS and handheld VHF, can I go out 25 miles offshore in my 120HP, 30gallons, 20ft cuddy or does that sound crazy? Tred Barta made his name fishing bigeyes 85-90 miles out of Shinnecock Inlet in the "Randi Strike", a 19′ Mako CC. That was 25 years ago.

Response:

Your comments on redundancy are right on the money in my experience. On the other hand, I’ve seen those "gentle blue water rollers" break onto the deck of a 50 footer.  On a 50 foot boat that just creates a little commotion for a few seconds, but in a 20 foot cuddy you’re likely to get a sinking sensation. Looking beyond gear failure, there are some other risks difficult to avoid such as late afternoon thunderstorms, fast moving cold fronts, and breaking conditions in the inlets caused by tide and offshore swells.  Things can change in a hurry even on a day that starts board flat and looks stable.  Important to remember that small boats have small safety margins. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I always have been told and adhered to the redundancy rule. A backup for everything when going off-shore. Such as engines, fuel tanks, radios, batteries(you got that covered), safety equipment, food, water etc. Are you sure you want to trust everything to your set up with no redundancy? I spend my time in the mid Chesapeake Bay in a 26′ Bayliner. The rollers there can get pretty nasty with high frequency four to six footers. I’ve been told blue water rollers are more gentle because of the lower frequency. Your seamanship is to be applauded, but I suggest you adopt more redundancy.

Response:

I always have been told and adhered to the redundancy rule. A backup for everything when going off-shore. Such as engines, fuel tanks, radios, batteries(you got that covered), safety equipment, food, water etc. Are you sure you want to trust everything to your set up with no redundancy? I spend my time in the mid Chesapeake Bay in a 26′ Bayliner. The rollers there can get pretty nasty with high frequency four to six footers. I’ve been told blue water rollers are more gentle because of the lower frequency. Your seamanship is to be applauded, but I suggest you adopt more redundancy. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, Thanks for the replies and will not venture out without the recommendations. No EPIRB here. Just some safety flares. The boats a 1990 Bayliner cuddy, dual batteries, reliable with rebuilt powerhead. I bought this second hand and always thought it had a 30gallon tank. I always refill the tank before a trip so dont know how much it really holds..lol. thanks! This is all well and good. It is not the size of the boat in question. The boat you mention obviously held a lot more than 30 gallons of fuel. I would also strongly suspect that he had more than a hand held VHF for emergency communication needs. Hello, I fish regularly at Halfmoon Bay up to Pacifca (CA) for salmon, halibut, etc. I want to go out farther for Albacore but have never ventured more than a couple miles offshore. I have fished through 10ft swells but never any high winds. With my etrex GPS and handheld VHF, can I go out 25 miles offshore in my 120HP, 30gallons, 20ft cuddy or does that sound crazy? Tred Barta made his name fishing bigeyes 85-90 miles out of Shinnecock Inlet in the "Randi Strike", a 19′ Mako CC. That was 25 years ago.

Response:

ben thur, dun dat writes to tell us just how scared he is of the water with: (way to go, bt,dd) geesh.  another guy tied to the dock when the wind is greater than 8 knots and telling how safety conscious he is. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Like Harry, I would strongly suggest an installed VHF with tall antenna – hand held only broadcast 3-5 miles with their 3 watt output max. (you might get a little better in ideal conditions – but don’t bet your life on it! Installed will get you up to around 25 mile range fairly reliably (potential further)- 25 watts out put makes a world of difference. I also agree that EPIRB would be a good idea. But definitely do not trust the hand held VHF to get you help in a jam. Dan touched on what may be an even bigger concern – 30 gallon gas tank. You state that you have a 120 HP. Is this an outboard or I/OF? What is your gas consumption = MPG? If this is a gas I/OF – very common in 20′ cuddies I would be very concerned about getting out 20 miles and back on that amount of fuel. If you hit any surprises in weather – cut MPG in half or more! Most I/Os on that size boat will get around 2 -3 MPG in reasonably calm conditions. Not a lot of room for error. Weather is the real wildcard. Pick your days and keep an eye on the sky. I have been out 20 miles in a center console about that size off Hatters, NC. It is doable…but keep a real close eye on the weather — gets pretty breezy & rough in the area you are talking about. I fished on a charter in that basic area a couple of years ago – charter boat was mid 30′ bridge boat – we got tossed around pretty good. About six weeks ago I was fishing out of Ft. Lauderdale.  We ended up a bit over 20 miles out before we gave up on fishing and decided to go to Bimini (Bahamas).  I found it on my GPSmap 76 and off we went.  It was 58 miles from port to port and we made the trip back in just over two hours.  The amazing part is that we burned only 28 gallons of gas on this 116 mile round trip with at least a hour of trolling included.  We were in my 20′ center console with a 115 four stroke. It’s all a matter of sea conditions and the weather.  This was an incredibly flat day with clear skies.  We were prepared to leave the boat in Bimini and fly back as a last resort if the weather went to hell on us.  This was one of those stupid "so I can say I was there" trips. Typically I will go out only 15 – 20 miles.  At that point there are still plenty of other boats in the area and usually cell phone coverage if the VHF craps out. Are you sure you only have a 30 gallon fuel tank?  That would be my #1 concern.  The handheld VHF would be right there at #2. Dan Hello, I fish regularly at Halfmoon Bay up to Pacifca (CA) for salmon, halibut, etc. I want to go out farther for Albacore but have never ventured more than a couple miles offshore. I have fished through 10ft swells but never any high winds. With my etrex GPS and handheld VHF, can I go out 25 miles offshore in my 120HP, 30gallons, 20ft cuddy or does that sound crazy? Any opinions would be appreciated…thank you.

Response:

Like Harry, I would strongly suggest an installed VHF with tall antenna – hand held only broadcast 3-5 miles with their 3 watt output max. (you might get a little better in ideal conditions – but don’t bet your life on it! Installed will get you up to around 25 mile range fairly reliably (potential further)- 25 watts out put makes a world of difference. I also agree that EPIRB would be a good idea. But definitely do not trust the hand held VHF to get you help in a jam. Dan touched on what may be an even bigger concern – 30 gallon gas tank. You state that you have a 120 HP. Is this an outboard or I/OF? What is your gas consumption = MPG? If this is a gas I/OF – very common in 20′ cuddies I would be very concerned about getting out 20 miles and back on that amount of fuel. If you hit any surprises in weather – cut MPG in half or more! Most I/Os on that size boat will get around 2 -3 MPG in reasonably calm conditions. Not a lot of room for error. Weather is the real wildcard. Pick your days and keep an eye on the sky. I have been out 20 miles in a center console about that size off Hatters, NC. It is doable…but keep a real close eye on the weather — gets pretty breezy & rough in the area you are talking about. I fished on a charter in that basic area a couple of years ago – charter boat was mid 30′ bridge boat – we got tossed around pretty good.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – About six weeks ago I was fishing out of Ft. Lauderdale.  We ended up a bit over 20 miles out before we gave up on fishing and decided to go to Bimini (Bahamas).  I found it on my GPSmap 76 and off we went.  It was 58 miles from port to port and we made the trip back in just over two hours.  The amazing part is that we burned only 28 gallons of gas on this 116 mile round trip with at least a hour of trolling included.  We were in my 20′ center console with a 115 four stroke. It’s all a matter of sea conditions and the weather.  This was an incredibly flat day with clear skies.  We were prepared to leave the boat in Bimini and fly back as a last resort if the weather went to hell on us.  This was one of those stupid "so I can say I was there" trips. Typically I will go out only 15 – 20 miles.  At that point there are still plenty of other boats in the area and usually cell phone coverage if the VHF craps out. Are you sure you only have a 30 gallon fuel tank?  That would be my #1 concern.  The handheld VHF would be right there at #2. Dan Hello, I fish regularly at Halfmoon Bay up to Pacifca (CA) for salmon, halibut, etc. I want to go out farther for Albacore but have never ventured more than a couple miles offshore. I have fished through 10ft swells but never any high winds. With my etrex GPS and handheld VHF, can I go out 25 miles offshore in my 120HP, 30gallons, 20ft cuddy or does that sound crazy? Any opinions would be appreciated…thank you.

Response:

Hello, I fish regularly at Halfmoon Bay up to Pacifca (CA) for salmon, halibut, etc. I want to go out farther for Albacore but have never ventured more than a couple miles offshore. I have fished through 10ft swells but never any high winds. With my etrex GPS and handheld VHF, can I go out 25 miles offshore in my 120HP, 30gallons, 20ft cuddy or does that sound crazy?

Tred Barta made his name fishing bigeyes 85-90 miles out of Shinnecock Inlet in the "Randi Strike", a 19′ Mako CC. That was 25 years ago.

Response:

This is all well and good. It is not the size of the boat in question. The boat you mention obviously held a lot more than 30 gallons of fuel. I would also strongly suspect that he had more than a hand held VHF for emergency communication needs.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, I fish regularly at Halfmoon Bay up to Pacifca (CA) for salmon, halibut, etc. I want to go out farther for Albacore but have never ventured more than a couple miles offshore. I have fished through 10ft swells but never any high winds. With my etrex GPS and handheld VHF, can I go out 25 miles offshore in my 120HP, 30gallons, 20ft cuddy or does that sound crazy? Tred Barta made his name fishing bigeyes 85-90 miles out of Shinnecock Inlet in the "Randi Strike", a 19′ Mako CC. That was 25 years ago.

Response:

30 gallons sounds awfully small for a 20 ft. boat.  

Agreed.  And 120Hp seems like a very small engine, as well. My 18′ CC has a 150HP Merc OB and a 60-gallon tank.   I would strongly advise against going further out, without making some major adjustments in his capabilities. e.g. installing more fuel capacity, and being almost fanatical about weather-watching. I’ve been 40-50 miles out (in a commercial fishing boat) in the Pacific out of Oregon, and it was pretty scary.  Unlike the short-period waves we have in the Gulf, these were HUGE rollers, a city block or more thick.  I’d hate to be out there when they started kicking up. 120hp and 30 gallons of gas, in a 20 footer? No way. Ron M.

Response:

Jim,     I’d be surprised if your handheld VHF was strong enough, 25 miles out, to reach shore without an external antenna. Paul — "The opinions expressed in the article are the opinions of the author, not of Ford Motor Company. " – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, I fish regularly at Halfmoon Bay up to Pacifca (CA) for salmon, halibut, etc. I want to go out farther for Albacore but have never ventured more than a couple miles offshore. I have fished through 10ft swells but never any high winds. With my etrex GPS and handheld VHF, can I go out 25 miles offshore in my 120HP, 30gallons, 20ft cuddy or does that sound crazy? Any opinions would be appreciated…thank you.

Response:

I go out about 20 miles off Boston Harbor sometimes in my 19 foot boat, but only when there is flat water and a stable high presure area in place with little chance of bad weather kicking up. I keep my vhf on and monitor the weather channel and radio stations for any surprize weather. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hello, I fish regularly at Halfmoon Bay up to Pacifca (CA) for salmon, halibut, etc. I want to go out farther for Albacore but have never ventured more than a couple miles offshore. I have fished through 10ft swells but never any high winds. With my etrex GPS and handheld VHF, can I go out 25 miles offshore in my 120HP, 30gallons, 20ft cuddy or does that sound crazy? Any opinions would be appreciated…thank you.

Response:

About six weeks ago I was fishing out of Ft. Lauderdale.  We ended up a bit over 20 miles out before we gave up on fishing and decided to go to Bimini (Bahamas).  I found it on my GPSmap 76 and off we went.  It was 58 miles from port to port and we made the trip back in just over two hours.  The amazing part is that we burned only 28 gallons of gas on this 116 mile round trip with at least a hour of trolling included.  We were in my 20′ center console with a 115 four stroke. It’s all a matter of sea conditions and the weather.  This was an incredibly flat day with clear skies.  We were prepared to leave the boat in Bimini and fly back as a last resort if the weather went to hell on us.  This was one of those stupid "so I can say I was there" trips. Typically I will go out only 15 – 20 miles.  At that point there are still plenty of other boats in the area and usually cell phone coverage if the VHF craps out. Are you sure you only have a 30 gallon fuel tank?  That would be my #1 concern.  The handheld VHF would be right there at #2. Dan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, I fish regularly at Halfmoon Bay up to Pacifca (CA) for salmon, halibut, etc. I want to go out farther for Albacore but have never ventured more than a couple miles offshore. I have fished through 10ft swells but never any high winds. With my etrex GPS and handheld VHF, can I go out 25 miles offshore in my 120HP, 30gallons, 20ft cuddy or does that sound crazy? Any opinions would be appreciated…thank you.

Response:

30 gallons sounds awfully small for a 20 ft. boat.  I’ve got a 26′ powercat with twin 150’s and 180 gallons of fuel and I am always a little nervous (rightly so) about going off more than 20 miles.  A handheld VHF will NOT cut it, as Dan mentioned, nor the 30 gallon fuel tank.  You just can’t trust the weather service with forcasts.  They might say that the winds will pick up in 24 hours, but all of the sudden, you are in 20 kt winds.  Then you are in real trouble.  Usually I burn about 65 gal on a normal 12 hour trolling trip, but once, when the weather turn on me prematurely, it took about 130 gal to get home in terribly steep head seas. In general, I wouldn’t recommend it.  I’m usually the smallest boat out in the deep and I definitely feel it when the weather turns.  There are way too many things that go wrong. BTW, you didn’t mention an EPIRB in your list… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, I fish regularly at Halfmoon Bay up to Pacifca (CA) for salmon, halibut, etc. I want to go out farther for Albacore but have never ventured more than a couple miles offshore. I have fished through 10ft swells but never any high winds. With my etrex GPS and handheld VHF, can I go out 25 miles offshore in my 120HP, 30gallons, 20ft cuddy or does that sound crazy? Any opinions would be appreciated…thank you.

Response:

Hello, I fish regularly at Halfmoon Bay up to Pacifca (CA) for salmon, halibut, etc. I want to go out farther for Albacore but have never ventured more than a couple miles offshore. I have fished through 10ft swells but never any high winds. With my etrex GPS and handheld VHF, can I go out 25 miles offshore in my 120HP, 30gallons, 20ft cuddy or does that sound crazy? Any opinions would be appreciated…thank you.

Response:

Question:

…you’re married, right? jeff (with bleedin kneecaps and poor reception) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   I tried the "work and you shall earn" bit for quite a  while, so I’m trying  the "beg and you shall receive"  strategy for a change.  It’s a heck of a lot easier  on the feet, but a bit harder on the knees. See the thread that Mu started about Norman Maclean.  Very enlightening.

Response:

It’s hit or miss time for the Batten Kill this time of

Nice TR. Often one learns far more from such days, than days when one "has a ball".  One interesting point you make, is that one of course then has to implement what one learns, just knowing it, does no good! TL MC

Response:

Good report snipped. I sat on the bank and watched hundreds of duns climb up on rocks. I photographed some imago Hendriksons and noticed the brown eyes and segmented red body contrasting from the gray eyes and yellowish body of the subimago.

How about posting them to ABPF? Willi

Response:

How about posting them to ABPF?

Thanks Willi. I will do that. I doubt they’ll come out too good as you need the hi-res one to see the detail. That file is over 2.5M. I will post a few up later. — Gary M

Response:

 I have that problem as well, particularly when  it’s cold & my brain and fingers are numb and  the thought of redoing the leader, tippet, etc.  becomes overwhelming.  Often the best thing  that can happen to me is to snag & break off  my fly; that forces me to act.

You mean fishin’ line and lures, right? — Warren change addy to yahoo for email Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt3/HFclave.html

Response:

 I’ve been tempted, lor’, how I’ve been tempted !  So I get down on my knees and pray, and God  gives me the strength to continue.  And I just  *know* things will get better once I catch a fish…

See the thread that Mu started about Norman Maclean.  Very enlightening. — Warren change addy to yahoo for email Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt3/HFclave.html

Response:

It’s hit or miss time for the Batten Kill this time of year. I envy anyone who lives nearby, as they can monitor the peak times of day for activity without the investment of a 150 mile car journey. This same weekend last year the river was high, cold and way too early for large scale Spring hatches (although it was a day in the 60s). This year I thought would be even worse, as this was the first year in 8 years I remember snow on the mountains. On Saturday it was 53F ambient, sunny, with a biting cold wind coming up the valley from New York. Water temps were about 47F. I got suited up at 12:30pm. No insect activity at all, so I nymphed for 1 hour. Missed one nice fish, but I was in a risky spot evidenced by the fact that any shift in weight gave me the sickening feeling of almost being washed downstream. I decided to head up closer to Arlington and I parked near the green bridge on River Road. There was a nice Blue Quill (Iron Blue Dun) hatch coming off and lasted most of the afternoon. No fish working them. Around 2pm, peaking at 3pm and ceasing at 5:30pm the Light Hendriksons started. Strong hatch. No fish worked the duns. Nymphs were not working for me, or any of the two other anglers. I would love to get Dave LaCourse up there, or some other ROFF nymph magician as a litmus test, as I am below average nympher on my best day. I was chilled to the bone from the wind and the water, so I retired to bank and chatted with the other anglers who had done the same. All dressed up with nowhere to go we watched the river alive with bugs and not a single rise. This is not that unusal for Hendriksons early season, the nymphs being preferential to trout, but when the nymphs are working either it is Battenkillitus! A guy from the local Orvis store nymphed through and joined us on the bank. The general consensus seems to be this is the year of the Battenkill’s comeback. He had taken a nice fish on a lure at our present spot a few weeks back, and the other guy had lost a 18-20" brown the week before on an even stronger Hendrikson hatch. Both of the guys gave up and I was about to do the same when I noticed a splash in front of where I was standing. I got in the water and tried to work upstrem to get the best float. I got 10 casts in but the upstream wind and my 12′ 6x leader gave me a case of what I call "delayed, confused dry fly landing" whereby the fly lands 3 feet upstream and 2 secs after the line hits the water. Eagerness prevented me from taking remedial action, until I could stand it no more and I took 3′ off the end. There are many kinds of patience to be acquired when fly fishing and I am deficient in the area of taking my time to get things right on my tackle. I have that irrational fear that the fish will stop feeding, the river will drain away or some other angler will bully in and take the fish first. On this last point, there was no one left on the river … I worked upstream more. Now 5 fish worked in the target area. A few splashy rises I equate with young fish but one was nebbing duns regualarly with hardly an imprint on the surface. Third cast he took my fly and my strike was took fast. He looked to be a couple of inches over a foot long. I never felt weight, but I retrieved a wispy, flyless leader. The fish stopped rising and my one chance that day was gone. I sat on the bank and watched hundreds of duns climb up on rocks. I photographed some imago Hendriksons and noticed the brown eyes and segmented red body contrasting from the gray eyes and yellowish body of the subimago. At 6:30pm I could see no sign of a spinner fall and the   cold was unbearable, so I called it a day. Next day was forecast rain and high 50s. It actually was 30s and ice pellets mixed with snow bounced off the windshield as I drove to the river. I did not suit up. The rest of this week is to be similar weather-wise. I hope this is the year of the Battenkill.  I personally consider this kind of day a good day for me on this river, errors included. Though errors are mitigated by opportunities (when you only get one opportunity it is tough) I will relish the take and forget the "break". Yes, it can be a temperamental, unforgiving and obstinate river, but I do love its challenges. I don’t know if anyone had read John Ingliss Hall’s, "Fly Fishing a Highland Stream". He captures my relationship with this river better than I could ever craft in words. Fingers crossed for 2002. — Gary M

Response:

Question:

Eastern Canada’s fly/spin casting championships, $$$$ in prizes. Limited entry. 3rd. Annual Fly Tying  ’MAIL-IN’  Competition, great prizes. NO ENTRY FEE Atlantic Outdoor Sports and RV Show http://www.flyschool.net/rv.htm

Response:

Oh well, if it

Question:

Beats the hell out of nymphing IMHO. …unless its being done at the Pixie Motel, eh?  

and they’ve changed the sheets. thanks for the advice peter. in passing the winter with wooly bugger hi-jinks on the watauga, i’v noticed that when drifting and twitching the fly, most of my fish took just as the bugger finished its "u" and started upstream.  btw…it’s good to know that the big belly i get naturally in my casts is good for something other than challenging my drift and mending abilities… jeff

That’s the hot corner.  Most of my fish come from that turn.  The fly slows down as it heads upstream, just like a natural.  They often pursue it across the base of the U and only hit it on the turn.  The across stream turn also is a good spot as well since it gives the fly the appearance of a fleeing minnow. yup, big bellies are good for something after all.  I keep telling SWMBO that all the time. Peter

Response:

I make ‘em out of sparkle, pearl, chenille with some kind of flash in the white marabou tail.  silver and brass bead heads. Killer on spring smallmouth here in Ohio…..but this seems to be a spring/early summer color. Summer sees the green, blue, yellow……punk rocker colors. In the fall, those hmmmm, Colonial Williamsburg colors are effective, darker browns, greens and blacks…. smallmouth have always seemed a little fashion and style

Well of course, they are discerning fish.  :) Peter

Response:

<PC wrote Beats the hell out of nymphing IMHO.  …unless its being done at the Pixie Motel, eh?

speaking of the Pixie…. I have "discovered" an institution within shouting distance of the Pixie that has the best damn bbq sandwhiches up here in the High Country. They also serve grits waldo

Response:

<snipped info on streamers Excellent info Peter.  Was a good reminder for not limiting myself to just one method. Warren X#-[

Trout Dwellers Unite! Western Conclave Guru For info: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/sp_ROFF_people/wclave/wclave.html

Response:

speaking of the Pixie…. I have "discovered" an institution within shouting distance of the Pixie that has the best damn bbq sandwhiches up here in the High Country. They also serve grits

The Pixie Motel, bbq sandwiches, grits?   You’re making me try harder to work this trip in. OBROFF:    I’ve come across a little rainbow trout version of the Clouser minnow.   I’m tying a few #4’s to send for the clave raffle if I can’t bring ‘em myself.   Haven’t tried them yet, but it seems a good idea. Joe F.

Response:

Nice post Peter, What’s you favorite book on fishing streamers? Seems like there are hundreds of books on fishing nymphs & drys but I can’t see to find a good book on fishing techniques with streamers. Thanks, Sol

I only have one, its been out of print for years and it’s not tat great.  You’re right, there aren’t many.  The local shop just got one in but I forget the title.  I’m hoping for Father’s Day so I didn’t paw it too much.  I’ll see if I can get the title, Mastering the Streamer rings a bell. Peter

Response:

For a book on streamer fishing, the classic is Bates’ Streamer Fly Tying and Fishing, which now has a new edition by the author’s daughter. One point worth mentioning about movement: Any fly hanging in the current will be perceived by the fish as "moving." George

I agree and they look good but I don’t pick up many strikes this way. Something to be worked on. Peter

Response:

Nice post Peter, What’s you favorite book on fishing streamers? Seems like there are hundreds of books on fishing nymphs & drys but I can’t see to find a good book on fishing techniques with streamers. Thanks, Sol

The penny dropped.  Modern Streamers for Trophy Trout by Galloup & Linsenman Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Some of the guys saw me use the cross current mend in NC.  Cast directly across stream then make a bit downstream mend, producing a big belly of line.  Point the mend at any structure you want to fish. As the current drags the belly, it’ll accelerate the fly downstream then across stream, then upstream.  The fly runs a "U" pattern across the stream.  Throw in a few strips to add movement.  Keep in mind that a fleeing minnow will head downstream or across stream rather than up as a big fish has the advantage going upstream.  Don’t worry about hookups with all that belly, the browns whack the fly so hard they hook themselves half the time.  It’s a real hoot watching the swirl made by a charging brown as he takes the shallow running fly.

  I use this method very often, in fact almost all the times with excellent result  on sea trout that range from 2.5 to 5.5 pounds. I have seen numerous times these big trouts race for the fly for 30 ft. I fish in very clear water with streamer ranging in size from 2 to 5 inches long. Not too bad on atlantic salmon too. One move I make is when my line is thight in the current, I move my arm from front to rear thus giving a 3 feet motion to the fly. This seem to drive the fish crazy and when they hit, your arm stop as if you hit a rock. — Carol Dugas Caplan Quebec Canada

Response:

Willi’s post got me thinking that a little fishing info posted to this group couldn’t hurt. We all have our favourite methods and I’d rate dries on a small stream as my tops, streamers in big water second, swing wets third and nymphing dead last.  Ken will attest that me and nymphing don’t get along.  There’s often discussion here about dries and nymphing but preciously little about streamer methods.  So here’s 2 cents worth, (CDN.) To state the obvious, streamers imitate small forage fish so they have to be presented in that manner.  Most streamer patterns need movement to change their profile to a small fish imitation.  At rest, they are too broad to effectively imitate anything.  Stripping is the obvious choice to keep a streamer moving, but with the right mending the current can be used as well. I use four methods; standard down and across swing, cross current mend, straight strip, and deep dead drift.  Pretty well everyone is familiar with the quartering downstream "down and across" but some of the others don’t get much print. Some of the guys saw me use the cross current mend in NC.  Cast directly across stream then make a bit downstream mend, producing a big belly of line.  Point the mend at any structure you want to fish. As the current drags the belly, it’ll accelerate the fly downstream then across stream, then upstream.  The fly runs a "U" pattern across the stream.  Throw in a few strips to add movement.  Keep in mind that a fleeing minnow will head downstream or across stream rather than up as a big fish has the advantage going upstream.  Don’t worry about hookups with all that belly, the browns whack the fly so hard they hook themselves half the time.  It’s a real hoot watching the swirl made by a charging brown as he takes the shallow running fly. The straight strip is very commonly used in drift boats and guides often call it "spanking the bank" but you can use it wading too.  As Willi pointed out, big fish often can be up tight in shallow water against the bank or rocks.  I caught a beauty last year on my cane using one of my mini patterns just inches from the bank doing this. Cast directly across stream, a few feet upstream of where you expect the big guy to be holding, wait a bit for the fly to sink and drift toward him, then when it seems about right, strip the hell out of the fly.  To the fish, it looks like a drifting minnow has suddenly spotted him and is now boogying out.  Talk about ringing the dinner bell. The last method, the dead drift, needs a weighted streamer pattern that has a natural profile at rest; like the Joe Penich’s Niagara Smelt shown on my site.  Wounded minnows are often swept along the bottom of runs so there’s no reason why we can’t do the same.  Using a fast sinking, sinktip line, cast upstream at the top of a deep run. Put in a big upstream mend to help sink the fly.  As the fly approaches directly across from you, pull in the slack and hang on. If you don’t get a hit, then put in a couple of sharp strips as the fly begins to swing.  That gives a fish the impression that the wounded minnow is still alive but in it’s death throes. Beats the hell out of nymphing IMHO. Good luck Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

<snip very good stuff Though you mentioned it in passing, I feel a need to stress that one of the very best things about streamers (especially as compared to nymphs) is that there is rarely any doubt at all about the strike!  More often than not I don’t have time to set the hook when a fish takes a streamer.  That’s o.k. though because the fish generally does the job for you.  Trout take streamers below the surface the way they do hoppers on top; they smack them HARD! How about favorite patterns Peter?  The Muddler Minnow and the Woolly Bugger (please, those who don’t think of the WB as a streamer, spare me!) hardly need mentioning as their popularity is nearly universal, though I have never been fond of muddlers myself.  The Hornberg Special is probably my all time favorite and, naturally, best producer, with a hair wing Royal Coachman a distant second.  Mickey Finns, Gray and Black Ghosts and my own variations on the Thunder Creek series have also been very good producers.

Response:

Trout take streamers below the surface the way they do hoppers on top; they smack them HARD!

Ya, I watched a brown take three shots at one of my minis.  Gotta hookup on the third.  Nearly as good as a dry. How about favorite patterns Peter?  The Muddler Minnow and the Woolly Bugger (please, those who don’t think of the WB as a streamer, spare me!) hardly need mentioning as their popularity is nearly universal, though I have never been fond of muddlers myself.  The Hornberg Special is probably my all time favorite and, naturally, best producer, with a hair wing Royal Coachman a distant second.  Mickey Finns, Gray and Black Ghosts and my own variations on the Thunder Creek series have also been very good producers.

I’ve always been partial to Mickey’s for landlocks, brookies and smallmouth.  I’ve also taken my fair share of smallies on wooolly buggers and and muddlers too.  I like to experiment with patterns and one of my most productive to date has been Joe’s Niagara Smelt.  I’ve also had very good luck with steelhead and salmon on my Rainbow Smelt. For browns, my mini and the "Little Trout" series have been the best. I’ve never fished the Hornberg or the hair wing Coachman.  I’ll have to give them a try. Peter

Response:

Try White WB’s sometime. Idon’t know why white, but trout will destru this color Wb in lakes.

Response:

I’ve never fished the Hornberg or the hair wing Coachman.  I’ll have to give them a try.

I’ll be bringing some Hornbergs to the clave.  Will begin tying them up tonight.        :)

Response:

Try White WB’s sometime. Idon’t know why white, but trout will destru this color Wb in lakes.

Yup. I was introduced to cone head white woollies by Gary from Atlanta.  They work wonders with smallies too. Peter

Response:

Wolfthing writes: I’ll be bringing some Hornbergs to the clave.  Will begin tying them up tonight.    :)

Sounds kinky to me, Wolfthing.  You’re gonna fit in real nicely with the NC contingent. d;0) Dave LaCourse

Response:

Nice post Peter, What’s you favorite book on fishing streamers? Seems like there are hundreds of books on fishing nymphs & drys but I can’t see to find a good book on fishing techniques with streamers. Thanks, Sol

Response:

For a book on streamer fishing, the classic is Bates’ Streamer Fly Tying and Fishing, which now has a new edition by the author’s daughter. One point worth mentioning about movement: Any fly hanging in the current will be perceived by the fish as "moving." George

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Willi’s post got me thinking that a little fishing info posted to this group couldn’t hurt. We all have our favourite methods and I’d rate dries on a small stream as my tops, streamers in big water second, swing wets third and nymphing dead last.  Ken will attest that me and nymphing don’t get along.  There’s often discussion here about dries and nymphing but preciously little about streamer methods.  So here’s 2 cents worth, (CDN.) To state the obvious, streamers imitate small forage fish so they have to be presented in that manner.  Most streamer patterns need movement to change their profile to a small fish imitation.  At rest, they are too broad to effectively imitate anything.  Stripping is the obvious choice to keep a streamer moving, but with the right mending the current can be used as well. I use four methods; standard down and across swing, cross current mend, straight strip, and deep dead drift.  Pretty well everyone is familiar with the quartering downstream "down and across" but some of the others don’t get much print. Some of the guys saw me use the cross current mend in NC.  Cast directly across stream then make a bit downstream mend, producing a big belly of line.  Point the mend at any structure you want to fish. As the current drags the belly, it’ll accelerate the fly downstream then across stream, then upstream.  The fly runs a "U" pattern across the stream.  Throw in a few strips to add movement.  Keep in mind that a fleeing minnow will head downstream or across stream rather than up as a big fish has the advantage going upstream.  Don’t worry about hookups with all that belly, the browns whack the fly so hard they hook themselves half the time.  It’s a real hoot watching the swirl made by a charging brown as he takes the shallow running fly. The straight strip is very commonly used in drift boats and guides often call it "spanking the bank" but you can use it wading too.  As Willi pointed out, big fish often can be up tight in shallow water against the bank or rocks.  I caught a beauty last year on my cane using one of my mini patterns just inches from the bank doing this. Cast directly across stream, a few feet upstream of where you expect the big guy to be holding, wait a bit for the fly to sink and drift toward him, then when it seems about right, strip the hell out of the fly.  To the fish, it looks like a drifting minnow has suddenly spotted him and is now boogying out.  Talk about ringing the dinner bell. The last method, the dead drift, needs a weighted streamer pattern that has a natural profile at rest; like the Joe Penich’s Niagara Smelt shown on my site.  Wounded minnows are often swept along the bottom of runs so there’s no reason why we can’t do the same.  Using a fast sinking, sinktip line, cast upstream at the top of a deep run. Put in a big upstream mend to help sink the fly.  As the fly approaches directly across from you, pull in the slack and hang on. If you don’t get a hit, then put in a couple of sharp strips as the fly begins to swing.  That gives a fish the impression that the wounded minnow is still alive but in it’s death throes. Beats the hell out of nymphing IMHO.

 …unless its being done at the Pixie Motel, eh?   thanks for the advice peter. in passing the winter with wooly bugger hi-jinks on the watauga, i’v noticed that when drifting and twitching the fly, most of my fish took just as the bugger finished its "u" and started upstream.  btw…it’s good to know that the big belly i get naturally in my casts is good for something other than challenging my drift and mending abilities… jeff

Response:

I make ‘em out of sparkle, pearl, chenille with some kind of flash in the white marabou tail.  silver and brass bead heads. Killer on spring smallmouth here in Ohio…..but this seems to be a spring/early summer color. Summer sees the green, blue, yellow……punk rocker colors. In the fall, those hmmmm, Colonial Williamsburg colors are effective, darker browns, greens and blacks…. smallmouth have always seemed a little fashion and style – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Try White WB’s sometime. Idon’t know why white, but trout will destru this color Wb in lakes. Yup. I was introduced to cone head white woollies by Gary from Atlanta.  They work wonders with smallies too. Peter

Response:

Question:

John, With Christmas upon us … some of us are trying to decide on the perfect gift for the ‘love of our lives’

Glad you posted this!  For those of us in ROFF, it’s probably not hard to imagine what another ROFFian would like for Christmas. But I’d sure like to hear some suggestions for what ROFFians can give their wives.  Now, I’m a lucky flyfisher in that my wife also enjoys ff — but not with the passion and addiction that applies to me. So I’m reluctant to give here something ff-related.  It can seem a bit self-serving — like the idiot husband that gives his wife a new mop! So how about gift selections for the wonderful ladies that so graciously tolerate our peculiar habits? Wes Peterson Who would call himself "liberal," let him love justice. Let him love equality. Let him love compassion and charity. But let him love first, and above all the rest, Liberty.

Response:

With Christmas upon us … some of us are trying to decide on the perfect gift for the ‘love of our lives’ … and with this group … there are probably some great ideas … want to share? I have already gotten the fly vest as a hint that fishing may be on the horizon … but really … what is the real ‘gift’ of 1999 … hope this thread helps others too … John

Ernie’s blood knot tool is the perfect stocking stuffer for a flyfisherman. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

I’ve been dropping some pretty broad hints about Wheatly flyboxes. It’s the perfect gift for the flyfisherman — too expensive for a typical tightwad fisherman to buy for himself, but the finest quality with the patina of Old World tradition. I’m getting my wife and kids a new video/audio system with a DVD player and a satellite dish and receiver. (I’ll make my money back in a year or two by avoiding VHS tape-rental late fees.) I think a couple of Wheatly flyboxes would even the score. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

With Christmas upon us … some of us are trying to decide on the perfect gift for the ‘love of our lives’ … and with this group … there are probably some great ideas … want to share? I have already gotten the fly vest as a hint that fishing may be on the horizon … but really … what is the real ‘gift’ of 1999 … hope this thread helps others too … John —

On Christmas eve he handed his wife a small rectangular gift that rattled loudly. She asked what he did this time as he was quite a kidder. He just told her to open it. When she did she found a box of Cracker Jacks. P.O.’d she got up to leave. He calmed her and got her to open the box. She fished out the prize pouch and A black pearl ring from Neiman’s. Needless to say, the night went much better after that. Tyler Hopper "He’s a High Tech Redneck"

Response:

I’m going to wrap myself up in an aluminum tube manufactured by the Boeing company and have myself shipped to her door. If you do so you will arrive mushed, disheveled, discolored, and with a marred finish.  For your own sake and that of the dear lady use schedule 40 PVC!

… and by all means don’t use UPS! Yes!  Those brown trucks are hot.  Things will *shrivel*  or worse, *shrink*.    Sometimes they get flattened or bent. Dave L.

Response:

the real ‘gift’ of 1999 … hope this thread helps others too … John Gentlemen, Gentleman, Gentlemen, take a sage word of advice from one who appreciates the fair sex with vigor. –(much wisdom snipped) Wayne

        thus spake zarathustra!  when hart speaks on the subject of women, only the unlucky fail to heed his words…         wayno

Response:

I’m going to wrap myself up in an aluminum tube manufactured by the Boeing company and have myself shipped to her door. If you do so you will arrive mushed, disheveled, discolored, and with a marred finish.  For your own sake and that of the dear lady use schedule 40 PVC!

… and by all means don’t use UPS!

Response:

Michael, re-reading my post, I apologize for a poor taste word selection. No slur was intended and it is in fact a great gift idea. jim

No worries Jim! I revel in the friendly "poking"! — Michael Era

Question:

Billy If efficiency is your god, then stay with graphite.  If you’re a romantic . . .  I don’t have to finish the sentence. I have a Diawa 4/5 fly rod that is 5 1/2 times cheaper than my bamboo 4/5 and will out cast it.   Yet that has nothing to do why I like it or love the bamboo.  Others have said it better; you have to fish a good one to know. In a world that worships efficiency,  maybe it’s just our reaction against it.  Whatever it is, we aren’t about to question it.  We just fish. Peter

Response:

 there’s certainly more to fly fishing than casting a whole line with a graphite rod… Regards Jeff

        the only way i and 90% of the rest of us will be able to cast an entire line is to buy one, and then throw it as far as we can, while it’s still in the cradle.  i say fish what makes you smile. wayno

Response:

Harrison) writes: i say fish what makes you smile.

Cripes, you’re getting mellow, what happened? Wayne Knight (remove nospam to respond via mail) Expert in the creation of  wind knots and tailing loops.

Response:

Harrison) writes: i say fish what makes you smile. Cripes, you’re getting mellow, what happened? Wayne Knight (remove nospam to respond via mail) Expert in the creation of  wind knots and tailing loops.

    advancing age and the discovery of balvenie. wayno, chilling – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Wayno: <<(Wayne Harrison) writes: i say fish what makes you smile. Cripes, you’re getting mellow, what happened? Wayne Knight (remove nospam to respond via mail) Expert in the creation of  wind knots and tailing loops.

    advancing age and the discovery of balvenie. wayno, chilling Speaking of chilling……. last night I found two bottles of Sleeman’s in the cooler.  Totally forgotten.  Serendipitous!  I picked my first two tomatoes and had a couple of tom and lettuce sandwiches for lunch, washed down with TWO Sleeman’s.  It ain’t gonna get any better than this……d;0) Dave L. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Speaking of chilling……. last night I found two bottles of Sleeman’s in the cooler.  Totally forgotten.  Serendipitous!  I picked my first two tomatoes and had a couple of tom and lettuce sandwiches for lunch, washed down with TWO Sleeman’s.  It ain’t gonna get any better than this……d;0) Dave L.

You are absolutely correct, Dave.  Sadly, my Sleeman’s is long, long gone, and my tomatoes are shriveling in the drought. Mark Faulkner

Response:

Speaking of chilling……. last night I found two bottles of Sleeman’s in the cooler.  Totally forgotten.  Serendipitous!  I picked my first two tomatoes and had a couple of tom and lettuce sandwiches for lunch, washed down with TWO Sleeman’s.  It ain’t gonna get any better than this……d;0) Dave L.

dave, you are a cruel, cruel bastard. –waldo — Ezflyfish.com                 Blue Ridge Book Gallery Quality Gear & Service        Used & Out-of-Print Books http://www.ezflyfish.com      http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 (828)963-5001

Response:

Until you add some dilled Walla Walla sweets and cucumber slices to the sandwich. Speaking of chilling……. last night I found two bottles of Sleeman’s in the cooler.  Totally forgotten.  Serendipitous!  I picked my first two tomatoes and had a couple of tom and lettuce sandwiches for lunch, washed down with TWO Sleeman’s.  It ain’t gonna get any better than this……d;0) Dave L.

– Mike in PDX "When the trout are lost, smash the state."                          Tom McGuane

Response:

advancing age and the discovery of balvenie.

wait till I get some really good scotch in your blood stream vs just a good scotch, you’ll even start telling lawyer jokes. Wayne Knight (remove nospam to respond via mail) Expert in the creation of  wind knots and tailing loops.

Response:

Mike: <<Until you add some dilled Walla Walla sweets and cucumber slices to the sandwich. Speaking of chilling……. last night I found two bottles of Sleeman’s in the cooler.  Totally forgotten.  Serendipitous!  I picked my first two tomatoes and had a couple of tom and lettuce sandwiches for lunch, washed down with TWO Sleeman’s.  It ain’t gonna get any better than this……d;0)

Well, ya might have somethin there.  But I’ll take the pickles on the side and instead of cukes, and how about a thick slice of a hairy-assed Vidalia Onion.  Maybe a slice of *good* cheese? Dave LaCourse

Response:

I’m reading all the posts about bamboo fly rods.   Why would a person want a fly rod made from bamboo, when you can have a grafite rod? Bamboo just dose’nt make sense. — Sharp Hooks, Pat Holdzit Fishing Products Inc. http://www.holdzit.com Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

is this a troll? — Nicholas J. Slodki http://trampled.net/Nikolai0/

:I’m reading all the posts about bamboo fly rods.   Why would a person :want a fly rod made from bamboo, when you can have a grafite rod? :Bamboo just dose’nt make sense. : :– :Sharp Hooks, at :Holdzit Fishing Products Inc. :http://www.holdzit.com : : :Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

Pat- You’d probably ask the same question about fiberglass. Obviously, you’ve never cast one! There’s nothing like the FEEL of casting a bamboo rod…it’s sort of a magical thing, actually allowing you to feel the "tug" of a line straightening out behind you and urging you to begin your forward cast. When nymphing with a bamboo rod, I’ve never had the urge to even consider using a strike indicator (read= bobber) as you can actually feel the nymph being picked up on a tight line while high-sticking a nymph through a riffle. There are some of us who began on bamboo, then out of need, migrated to fiberglass (lack of suppliers of decent bamboo rods at prices the "common man" could afford) and never even bothered with graphite, especially after trying the original graphite rods to hit the market….true buggy whips or telephone poles, nothing in between… along with the horror stories of graphite rods exploding when they got too cold and were tapped against the side of a boat or other hard object. I do own a couple of graphite rods now, but don’t consider them the primary pieces in my arsenal…my primaries are an old Granger bamboo and my Fenwick glass rods, but I do use the graphites also. You’d need to handle one streamside to undrstand is all I can say….maybe someday you’ll find an obliging fly fisherman on the water that’ll let you cast his bamboo or glass rod and then when you take your graphite back and make afew casts you’ll understand better. Larry #:)#

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I’m reading all the posts about bamboo fly rods.   Why would a person want a fly rod made from bamboo, when you can have a grafite rod? Bamboo just dose’nt make sense.

If you are a slam bam thank you ma’m fisherman, tossing and in love with the latest greatest high modulus plastic rod, you’re right cane is not for you. I love cane rods because, and imo only, 1. A good cane rod is a result of someones labor of love as a craftsman not the result of some plastic rolling off of a sheet. 2. A good cane rod forces you to slow down and enjoy the experience. 3. A good cane rod is much more forgiving than a graphite rod to casting mistakes. 4. I believe they fish better, protect tippets better, lay down flies more delicately, 5. There’s a bit of nostalgia involved which for an aging baby boomer is kind of neat. 6.They’re made with mother natures own resources, so they’re probably more eco-friendly tho I have no scientific proof, but these are opinions . 7. The weight crap is overrated. They aren’t that heavy and it is great to feel the line lay out, they almost tell you when to begin the next stroke. Let’s see if I can put another way, using a cane rod to me is akin to sex, a cane rod is like having a loving romantic relationship over time which is much more fulfilling, a graphite rod is like having a one night stand, yea it feels good for a short time but once you shoot your load, there’s nothing left. I own more than my share of graphite rods, I use them, like them.but would not be devastated if I lost them. Take my cane tho, and I’ll have to kill you. My opinion only, but you asked. Wayne Knight (remove nospam to respond via mail) Expert in the creation of  wind knots and tailing loops.

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It does when you have an old reel and silk line to go with it.  It is a real trip down memory lane. Ernie Harrison Like to make fly-fishing stuff?  See: http://users.ccnet.com/~emh/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m reading all the posts about bamboo fly rods.   Why would a person want a fly rod made from bamboo, when you can have a grafite rod? Bamboo just dose’nt make sense. — Sharp Hooks, Pat Holdzit Fishing Products Inc. http://www.holdzit.com Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

Bamboo just dose’nt make sense.

Sure it dose. Bamboo, fiberglas & graphite all have plusses & minuses. It comes down to casting style and personal preference. I happen to think that bamboo is more forgiving of my lousy casting stroke. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Wayne Knight wrote … Let’s see if I can put another way, using a cane rod to me is akin to sex, a cane rod is like having a loving romantic relationship over time which is much more fulfilling, a graphite rod is like having a one night stand, yea it feels good for a short time but once you shoot your load, there’s nothing left.

Gee thanks.  Now I’ll feel cheap and tawdry next time I go fishing. Keith Brewster

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Tradition, old timey feel. nose thumbing at technology, beauty, yankee pride. Dave

Response:

I do not have much cane experience.  I have an old Montague rod.  Maybe more espensive ones may end up with my mind changed. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m reading all the posts about bamboo fly rods.   Why would a person want a fly rod made from bamboo, when you can have a grafite rod? Bamboo just dose’nt make sense. If you are a slam bam thank you ma’m fisherman, tossing and in love with the latest greatest high modulus plastic rod, you’re right cane is not for you. I love cane rods because, and imo only, 1. A good cane rod is a result of someones labor of love as a craftsman not the result of some plastic rolling off of a sheet.

I don’t care about this.  How good is the tool? 2. A good cane rod forces you to slow down and enjoy the experience.

Given the kind of fishing I do, I need a fast rod. 3. A good cane rod is much more forgiving than a graphite rod to casting mistakes.

See 2 above. 4. I believe they fish better, protect tippets better, lay down flies more delicately,

Possibly. 5. There’s a bit of nostalgia involved which for an aging baby boomer is kind of neat. 6.They’re made with mother natures own resources, so they’re probably more eco-friendly tho I have no scientific proof, but these are opinions . 7. The weight crap is overrated. They aren’t that heavy and it is great to feel the line lay out, they almost tell you when to begin the next stroke.

I find the weight a serious problem.  After about half an hour of fishing, my arm is worn out.  It is not the weight of the rod, per se.  It is the moment of inertia. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Let’s see if I can put another way, using a cane rod to me is akin to sex, a cane rod is like having a loving romantic relationship over time which is much more fulfilling, a graphite rod is like having a one night stand, yea it feels good for a short time but once you shoot your load, there’s nothing left. I own more than my share of graphite rods, I use them, like them.but would not be devastated if I lost them. Take my cane tho, and I’ll have to kill you.

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(BillyFish) writes: I do not have much cane experience.  I have an old Montague rod.  Maybe more espensive ones may end up with my mind changed.

It does not have to be a more expensive one, there are lots of old cheap Heddons, South Bends, Wright & McGills, Union Hardware, etc which were good rods and don’t command premium prices. I have a project rod which used pieces of Leonard rods for a 5 wt which for a cane is a cannon. I paid $300 for the rod. It may not say Leonard, but it is a Leonard. Montagues, in most cases, are best used for tomato stakes or toothpicks Wayne Knight (remove nospam to respond via mail) Expert in the creation of  wind knots and tailing loops.

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wayne and others. SNIP SNIP Let’s see if I can put another way, using a cane rod to me is akin to sex, a cane rod is like having a loving romantic relationship over time which is much more fulfilling, a graphite rod is like having a one night stand, yea it feels good for a short time but once you shoot your load, there’s nothing left.

eww… i’m starting to feel a little yucky… have cast a cane rod a few times.. felt like they could cast a line around a 90 degree corner.. just wonderful. edwin

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I am a poor deprived person who has , I confess,  never even handled a cane rod much less fish with one.  To rectify this, in the light of all this debate, I  have been trying to cast with one of the wife’s bean sticks to see what the fuss was all about.  I got blank looks at the hardware store when I asked for a 4 wt – apparently they categorise them as tomato or bean and not by weight! so I came home and nicked one of hers.  Well, I have to say it did nothing for my style, such as it is, and the neighbours, already used to the sight of me flinging fly lines deep under the trees in the garden and trying to curve cast around the posts on the kids climbing frame, just took it all in their stride. George, you must wave a magic wand over a piece of bamboo to turn it into a rod, that’s all I can say. Yes I’ve read the G site (or should that be "spot"? )on how technological this bamboo thing is  - and now you guys have got me going.  I have got to see a real cane rod and have a cast with it just to compare it to my graphite and boron rods and see what all the fuss is about! Bendy bamboo to you all DBJ I don’t practice what I preach as I am not the sort of person I preach to! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Bamboo just dose’nt make sense. Sure it dose. Bamboo, fiberglas & graphite all have plusses & minuses. It comes down to casting style and personal preference. I happen to think that bamboo is more forgiving of my lousy casting stroke. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Gee thanks.  Now I’ll feel cheap and tawdry next time I go fishing.

But will you respect it in the morning? Wayne Knight (remove nospam to respond via mail) Expert in the creation of  wind knots and tailing loops.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wayne Knight wrote … Let’s see if I can put another way, using a cane rod to me is akin to sex, a cane rod is like having a loving romantic relationship over time which is much more fulfilling, a graphite rod is like having a one night stand, yea it feels good for a short time but once you shoot your load, there’s nothing left. Gee thanks.  Now I’ll feel cheap and tawdry next time I go fishing. Keith Brewster

Mark Faulkner, recalling those years gone by

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Bamboo may not make sense, and I guess classic Jaguars, MG’s, and Porsches don’t either. But that doesn’t keep them from putting more grins on my face. There’s more to driving enjoyment than airconditioned, fuel-injected cars from the Pacific Rim, and there’s certainly more to fly fishing than casting a whole line with a graphite rod… Regards Jeff

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m reading all the posts about bamboo fly rods.   Why would a person want a fly rod made from bamboo, when you can have a grafite rod? Bamboo just dose’nt make sense. — Sharp Hooks, Pat Holdzit Fishing Products Inc. http://www.holdzit.com Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

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Question:

hi all, has anyone done any FFishing in Turks Caicos.  i’m going there for my honeymoone and need to know if i should pack my 7 weight! thanks in advance! -eric — Oracle DBA                     GE Fanuc                      Phone:  (804) 978-5945

Response:

hi all, has anyone done any FFishing in Turks Caicos.  i’m going there for my honeymoone and need to know if i should pack my 7 weight! thanks in advance! -eric — Oracle DBA                     GE Fanuc                  Phone:  (804) 978-5945

I say yes, my wife says no (and with great emphasis I might add). David726 E-mail for further assistance to:

Response:

hi all, has anyone done any FFishing in Turks Caicos.  i’m going there for my honeymoone and need to know if i should pack my 7 weight! thanks in advance! -eric — Oracle DBA                     GE Fanuc                      Phone:  (804) 978-5945

You better have the right woman to try fishing on your honeymoon.  Luckily I do.  We took our ‘moon in Nantucket and I went fishing one day.  Got a few striper too.  If it’s okay with her I would say bring it and find out about the opportunities lsater. — Gordon Churchill Flyfish NC http://www.planet-nc.com/flyfishnc/ Striped Bass on the Roanoke River, Hybrids on Jordan Lake, Largemouths on surface.  Pickup and dropoff in Research Triangle Park

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If you’re going on a honeymoon, you are taking the wrong rod! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -hi all, has anyone done any FFishing in Turks Caicos.  i’m going there for my honeymoone and need to know if i should pack my 7 weight! thanks in advance! -eric — Oracle DBA                     GE Fanuc                  Phone:  (804) 978-5945

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Question:

   I work at Jacklin’s Fly shop in West Yellowstone, MT.  The fly fishing in the area is tremendous.  If anyone has fished the area and has some helpful tips, please reply or if someone wants some tips on fly fishing in the West Yellowstone area I’d be glad to give them.   Thanks,

Response:

   I work at Jacklin’s Fly shop in West Yellowstone, MT.

Jamie, That’s one hell of a commute from BGSU to West Yellowstone. I know the real estate price are pretty outrageous there, but I would think you could find something a little closer in. Bill

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Jamie: i have fished west the last two summers. there are not enough superlatives in the dictionary to describe the area, especially for a new yorker. i stay at the pine shadows and last year fished the madison with blaine heap. this year i fished thhe park on my ownn and went up to livingston and fished nelson’s. i hope to return to west next year. charlie di peri

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Hi One of my favorite places to fish in the Park is the Gibbon River in Elk Meadow and also below the falls.  You are right, there are so many places to fish in the WYS area that it would take a life time to fish them all.  Also just outside WYS Cougar Creek is real good but watch for bears. — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (97 catalog) http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

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Question:

Will someone please post the materials list for a Pheasant Tail nymph.  I can’t believe it but my three tying books don’t list the pattern! Thanks, Johnny

Response:

Will someone please post the materials list for a Pheasant Tail nymph.  I can’t believe it but my three tying books don’t list the pattern! Thanks, Johnny

Thread – tan Tail – pheasant tail tips Body – pheasant tail fibers wrapped like herl Ribbing – thin copper wire Thorax – copper wire (for bulk and added weight) over-wrapped with peacock               herl Wing case – pheasant tail with fibers divided at the head and turned back on               either side as "legs" (trimmed to 2/3 body length) – can be tied as bead head or with variations (flashback, mylar ribbing, etc.) Good fishing!  J. Rice

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materials: cock ring-neck pheasant tail, peacock herl, fine copper wire, black thread, 1X nymph hooks (pretty fancy, huh?) tie thread base, tie tail using 4-8 barbules from tails feather depending on size equal to 1/2 length of hook shank (no longer) with 3-4 wraps of thread; tie in copper wire, wrap tail fibres forward to midpoint; counter wrap copper wire rib, tie off and trim (your thread is now just forweard of the midpoint of the shank); fold back fibres over top of fly and tie down with a couple of wraps; tie in peacock herl and wrap a full thorax; fold fibers forward over the herl forming the case, tie down with 3-4 wraps of thread; divide fibres and fold back along the sides to form legs, tie down and whip finish. I don’t think I left anything out. A little practice and you should be able to tie 16-20 flies per hour with a rotary vice. Personal variations permitted. Hope this helps. — Ken Clark Ft. Lupton, CO

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I’m not sure what a book might say, but I’ve tied thousands with the following: cooper wire Pheasant Tail Fibers Peacock Herl Lead underbody (if allowed) Tie in tail of 3-6 tail fibers, Tie in a length of pheasant tail fibers 1/8′ or so wide and 1 1/2 times the length of hook shank and wrap fibers forward to 2/3 point of shank (do not cut butts)  rib with wire forward tie down with thread wrap peacock in for thorax and bring pheasant over top of hook for wing case tie down pull a few fiber out to side as legs tie off your done. Good luck, Great Nymph

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Pheasant tails, peacock hurl, fine copper, hook and thread. John Nesselrode Shawnee, KS

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Will someone please post the materials list for a Pheasant Tail nymph.  I can’t believe it but my three tying books don’t list the pattern!

The original English tie by Frank Sawyer uses only PT herl and fine copper wire (i.e. no thread.)  If your wire is fine enough, it’s all you need. (A cheap source is transformers from broken electrical gadgets.) — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

Response:

Will someone please post the materials list for a Pheasant Tail nymph.  I can’t believe it but my three tying books don’t list the pattern! Thanks, Johnny

Hi Johnny Here is the dressing as written by Frank Sawyer in the 1950s.  Sawyer was a river keeper and is the man credited with the invention of the PTN. This dressing may not be what you were expecting as it uses fine copper wire rather than thread.  Although that sounds difficult, I have dressed some of these myself and it wasn’t that hard.  They were also VERY effective.  Good luck. Russ         Now as to the dressings.  The materials used are quite easy for         most, who are interested, to obtain.  To represent the several         olive nymphs my pattern of the pheasant tail can be constructed         on three different hook sizes, No 00, No 0 and No 1*, and I         make no claim that the use of pheasant tail fibres for the body         of nymphs or flies is original.  But what I do claim is the         manner of the base building, ballasting, and the tying in of         the pheasant tail fibres with fine copper wire, of a colouring         to suit and tone in which the general dressing.  Artificial         nymphs tied in my way are not difficult to make, and the simple         instruction I am able to give should be sufficient for anyone         with nimble fingers to follow.         First grip the selected hook firmly in the vice and then give         the hook an even covering from bend to eye with fine         red-coloured copper wire.  The wire we use is little thicker         than a human hair and this one can obtain at little cost from         various sources.  It is used for the windings in small         transformers, dynamos, or electric motors.  After the hook has         been covered and the wire locked so that it cannot spin around         the hook shank, wind the wire in even turns to the point where         the thorax of the nymph is to be constructed, and there build         up a hump.  Then wind the wire back to the hook bend and let it         dangle.  Wire is much easier to use than silk as it will not         spin off or loosen if the tension is relaxed.         The wire with its red colour forms the base for the dressing         and at the same time gives additional weight to the hook.  I         dispense entirely with the use of silk and use the fine wire to         tie in the dressing.  The wire is now dangling from the hook         bend.  Take the four centre fibres of the browny-red cock         pheasant tail feather.  Hold the fibres by the tips and then         tie them on the with the wire so that the fine ends stand out         about one eighth of an inch from the hook bend.  They form the         tails, or the set of the nymph.  Then spin the four fibres of         the pheasant tail on to the wire so that they are reinforced,         and then lap fibres and wire evenly to the hook eye.  Hold the         wire firmly, separate the fibres from it and then wind the wire         to the point behind which the thorax is to be made.  Bend the         fibres back and fasten for the first lap of the thorax, then         forward to the eye of the hook again.  Fasten here securely         with half a dozen turns of wire and then cut away spare         fibres.         Our finished effort should have a very pronounced thorax which         suggests the bulging wing cases, and a body which tapers neatly         to the tail.  With the tail fibres spread, all is complete.         It will be noted by those who follow these instructions that         the upper part of the thorax which imitates the wing cases is         much darker than the rest of the body.  This is brought about         by the lapping back and forth of the butt ends of the pheasant         tail fibres.  If wire and fibres are wound evenly on the hook,         the spare ends should have the dark tone which is a feature in         the butts of these fibres.  This gives a very natural         appearance to the thorax.  The fibres of pheasant tail vary in         length, and indeed texture, from the butt of the feather to the         tip, so when dressing a nymph one can select lengths most         suitable for the size of the hook, bearing in mind that when         the body is made the dark part is ready to use for lapping.         When wet this pattern has a translucent effect and one can see         the red of the wire showing through the pheasant tail fibres.         The artificial, so constructed, has a very good entry to water         and will sink deeply when required.  The hook point is not         muffled or guarded in any way by hackles or by the dressing,         and a slight lift of the rod will drive it home. * Modern sizes 14, 15 and 16

Response:

Will someone please post the materials list for a Pheasant Tail nymph.  I can’t believe it but my three tying books don’t list the pattern! Thanks, Johnny

The nymph is tied with copper wire as thread.  Leaving a long tag, wrap to the bend.  Tie in about 6 pheasant tail fibers, leaving the tips for the tail.  Wrap the wire to the start of the thorax (2/3 up the shank), then create a body by wrapping the butts of the pheasant tail.  Tie them off with the wire, then use the long tag to rib the body.  Tie off the copper ribbing with the copper "thread" then trim everything.  Tie in a larger bunch of pheasant tail fibers, with the tip length about hook shank length, then some peacock herl (2-3).  Wrap the wire almost to the eye, then back to the herl, then forward again.  This weights the nymph, so wrap according to what you want.  Wrap the herl to create a plump thorax, tie it off, and trim it.  Pull the fibers over the herl to create a wing case, then pull about three to each side and create legs.  Wrap a copper head, and finish. BTW, this nymph REALLY works if fished deep.

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Thanks to everyone for the help on the pattern! Johnny Johnson

Response:

Thanks to everyone for the help on the pattern! Johnny Johnson

This is just funny enough that I’ve got to share it with ya’ll. I’ve long been a collector of road kills, much to the chagrin of both my wife and my oldest son, Michael.  Well, last month, while riding my bicycle to work…. you guessed it– I found a road kill. Well, sort of.  It was a coil that some technician had probably set on top of his car before pulling out of the parking lot.  And, it had been run over a few times.  It was definitely dead! Then, along comes this whole discussion of the original PT pattern. Lo and behold, the coil is just the thing for the wire component of the original PT pattern.  To make it even better, a hunter friend gave me two pheasant hides this year.  I’m tying nymphs for the price of the hook! So, my question is:  Has our sport gotten a little out of hand when the HOOK is over 99% of the cost of a fly?  :^) Tight pants^h^h^h^hlines! Charley

Response:

Speaking of personal variations: For the thorax, I like to dub.  I use a dubbing loop, and stuff a couple of small bunches of selected fur in.  I keep the guard hairs in with the soft underfur.  Then I twist up the loop and wrap.  Then pull the butt ends of the PT over top as a wing case and tie off.  The guard hairs in the dub look like legs/assorted appendages and give the fly a bit more life. Another variation: Don’t put a wing case on.  I.E., tie it "in the round".  This is a philosophical thing.  In the vise, we’re always thinking of the top and bottom of the fly, but this may not be how it will behave in the water.  There is a philosophy that suggests that an upside down nymph is as upsetting to a trout as any other "error" when tying, for example some type of pure "match the hatch" dry fly. Bob Lundy IWFFC Mississauga, ON http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/rlundy/

Response:

Will someone please post the materials list for a Pheasant Tail nymph.  I can’t believe it but my three tying books don’t list the pattern!

Hi Johnny, The Pheasant Tail is included in my fly tying web site. If you’d like, it can be found at… WWW Fly Tyer:    http://www.ns.net/~barnard (this is a non-commercial site)  :-) Look in the category "modern nymph". You will find both a recipe and step-by-step instructions. I hope this helps,    Alan.

Response:

So, my question is:  Has our sport gotten a little out of hand when the HOOK is over 99% of the cost of a fly?  :^)

That’s the way it should be; it’s out of hand when it’s the other way around ! One a similar subject, I regularly donate trout to a friend and he regulary brings me cock pheasant centre tail feathers from his father-in-law’s shoot.  I now have ~150 of the damn things. I’d like to get into dyeing or bleaching them so I have some choice over colour; does anyone have any experience of this please ?  Where do I start ? Thanks in advance Russ

Response:

One a similar subject, I regularly donate trout to a friend and he regulary brings me cock pheasant centre tail feathers from his father-in-law’s shoot.  I now have ~150 of the damn things. I’d like to get into dyeing or bleaching them so I have some choice over colour; does anyone have any experience of this please ?  Where do I start ? Thanks in advance Russ

Well, Russ, it just so happens I know the answer to this because I found it today while researching an article for my fly fishing club newsletter. American Angler ran a five part series of articles called "Modern Dyes and Dyeing for Fly Tiers", by Wm. T. Roubal, from May, ‘94 through Jan, ‘95.  The one on bleaching was the last one, Jan. ‘95. Charley

Response:

Thanks to everyone for the help on the pattern! Johnny Johnson

One other suggestion.  Have had good results using PT tied with greyish-brown dubbing for the thorax instead of peacock herl.  Might even try that with flashabou wing casing.  Whatever way you tie it, the PT just never stops producin!!! g

Response:

One other suggestion.  Have had good results using PT tied with greyish-brown dubbing for the thorax instead of peacock herl.  Might

PT inventor Frank Sawyer also made a similar nymph using grey goose herls (improvised on the spot in N. Sweden, if I remember right). — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

Response:

Question:

I’ve heard that someone makes a CD-ROM on fly tying.  If you have info on who make this, please respond ASAP.  Need as going away gift. — Kelly Mills http://www.vni.net/~hitech/kmills.htm

Response:

I’ve heard that someone makes a CD-ROM on fly tying.  If you have info
on who make this, please respond ASAP.  Need as going away gift.
–
Kelly Mills

http://www.vni.net/~hitech/kmills.htm

The current Fly Fisherman has an ad for the CD you want, with the phone number to order it. I also saw this CD at a fly shop in Indianapolis so it is probably being stocked in many flyshops now. The Virtual Flyfisher web site has a review of it in this month’s online magazine.

Response:

Kelly,    I have just received a copy of ”Tying Flies for Trout” by Elkwing Productions, P.O. Box 789, Waitsfield, VT 05673.    In my first look through it, I was somewhat impressed. It offers quite a variety of fly recipes, and includes six videos that take the tyer through the entire process for tying a particular fly.    It works on Macs and PCs and the production values are pretty good, although there are a problem or two (it was hard to hear the commentator during the tying videos). But the photos are good and you can blow them up quite large to get a good look at them.    Sorry I don’t have a phone number, but the above info might help you get started. All the rest of the info is at the office.    By the way, I am the outdoor editor for the Great Falls Tribune, in Great Falls, MT. just to let you know this was an objective opinion and not an employee shilling their product.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Kelly,   I have just received a copy of ”Tying Flies for Trout” by Elkwing Productions, P.O. Box 789, Waitsfield, VT 05673.   In my first look through it, I was somewhat impressed. It offers quite a variety of fly recipes, and includes six videos that take the tyer through the entire process for tying a particular fly.   It works on Macs and PCs and the production values are pretty good, although there are a problem or two (it was hard to hear the commentator during the tying videos). But the photos are good and you can blow them up quite large to get a good look at them.   Sorry I don’t have a phone number, but the above info might help you get started. All the rest of the info is at the office.   By the way, I am the outdoor editor for the Great Falls Tribune, in Great Falls, MT. just to let you know this was an objective opinion and not an employee shilling their product.

I’ve been looking for the same thing.  The phone number to Waitsfield "Learn to Tie Flies on CD"  is 800 411-3984.  There is a small add on page 76 in January/February issue of FlyRod&Reel. Dennis DiAugustine

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Hi Kelly, A good fly tying CD Rom is Tying Flies for TROUT by Dick Stewart & Farrow Allen.  It uses video as well as still photography to bring a wide array of flies to you. It my very well be the same CD as talked about by others on this thread. Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (catalog avail)

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I’ve heard that someone makes a CD-ROM on fly tying.  If you have info
on who make this, please respond ASAP.  Need as going away gift.
–
Kelly Mills

        We carry the Dick Stewart & Farrow Allen CD "Tying Flies for Trout" which has fly tying video clips, patterns, instruction for tying the patterns, reference materials concerning fly tying and the like. The price is $49.95 + shipping.         To order call us (HunterBanks Co., the southeast’s premier fly shop) at 800-227-6732.

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Hello! Yes, CD ROM with databse of flies is manufactured by: Fine Line Classic Collection address: Langoddveien 49 N-1335 Snaroya Norway Phone: 47 66849622 Fax: 47 67532840 They have no mail address. Product name: FlyLab for Windows The software is in two versions. FlyLab ver. 1.2 Light on discettes contains 300 patters. Price NOK 495,- FlyLab ver. 1.2 Full on discettes or CD Rom contains 900 patterns. Pris NOK 995,- Prices ex. mailing costs. Hardware spec: Minimum 386 /4mb RAM 256 color 36 Mb HD Windows 3.1 Rec. Hw. 486 /8 Mb RAM 32/64 color 48 Mb Hd Windows 3.11 The databse gives possibilities to add privat patterns as well as making notes on the original. If you have any questions, do not hesitate to mail me. Best Regards Erik R=F8hne

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I’ve heard that someone makes a CD-ROM on fly tying.  If you have info on who make this, please respond ASAP.  Need as going away gift. The current Fly Fisherman has an ad for the CD you want, with the phone number to order it. I also saw this CD at a fly shop in Indianapolis so it is probably being stocked in many flyshops now. The Virtual Flyshop web site has a review of it in this month’s online magazine.

Try http://www.flyshop.com/Mall/Elkwing "Tying Flies for Trout" by Farrow and Allen. — Mike Tucker-  The Virtual Flyshop Web: http://www.flyshop.com Phone: 970/225-6445

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