Question:

If you bring that I’ll make sure to get a bottle of Zubrowka – Polish vodka flavored with buffalo grass.  The current stuff is actually fake, because the buffalo grass has some kind of blood thinner and the FDA banned it in 1978, but it’s still good.  My uncles used to have bottles of the real stuff and brought it out on holidays.  They’re all over 80 and still healthy as horses, so maybe it’s really good stuff<g.

I brought home a bottle of the real Zubrowka when we returned from a recent trip to Poland.  Should have brought two or three, ’cause the stuff just doesn’t last around my house.  Hands down the finest tasting vodka I’ve had. Bill

Response:

Zubrowka is great stuff. I spent a few months studying in Krakow back before the velvet revolution

        (nifty anecdote snipped)         god, i love the smell of well-written english in the morning…         thanks, sid, from your friend in the old north state wayno

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Screw this wussy stuff and bring on the Slivovitz!!  I’ll try to get some for Penns 2002! Scott If you bring that I’ll make sure to get a bottle of Zubrowka – Polish vodka flavored with buffalo grass.  The current stuff is actually fake, because the buffalo grass has some kind of blood thinner and the FDA banned it in 1978, but it’s still good.  My uncles used to have bottles of the real stuff and brought it out on holidays.  They’re all over 80 and still healthy as horses, so maybe it’s really good stuff<g.

I have a bottle brought to me from Poland by a Polish friend I work with. VERY GOOD STUFF. M. Wm.

Response:

If you bring that I’ll make sure to get a bottle of Zubrowka – Polish vodka flavored with buffalo grass.  

Zubrowka is great stuff. I spent a few months studying in Krakow back before the velvet revolution and can confidently say that one of the few joys of soviet style socialism is plenty of cheap booze. I brought 200 USD to last the entire four months I was there and lived like a king. Well, a king who wipes his ass with newspaper, anyway. TP was tough to come by at the time. And, well, you start to see why it’s a good thing that booze was cheap in soviet socialist economies . My roommate at the time had just arrived from West Berlin where he’d been living in luxury accommodations while studying there. He used to wake up every morning, look out the window and remark with utter defeat, "Well, another shitty day in Poland." The poor guy was so stopped up from the adjustment to Poland’s somewhat challenging diet that after the first five days, he still hadn’t taken a crap. Sympathetic lot that we were, the rest of us in the program started a pool on when he’d eventually find relief, eschewing normal conversation with the poor bastard and instead starting every interaction with completely unveiled references to his predicament. "So, Mike…taken a crap yet?" was a popular starter and the hangdog look that would inevitably accompany the ensuing despondent shake of his head was enough to make you almost feel sorry for the guy. Unless, of course, it was your day in the pool. Poland’s a tough place…especially when there’s money at stake . Anyway, that’s a bit of a digression, but thanks for the memories. Maybe I’ll hit the ole liquor store tomorrow and see if I can’t scare up a bottle of the old Zubrowka. Or just take a crap and think about Mike. Too close to call, really. dziekuje bardzo, – sid

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Screw this wussy stuff and bring on the Slivovitz!!  I’ll try to get some for Penns 2002! Scott If you bring that I’ll make sure to get a bottle of Zubrowka – Polish vodka flavored with buffalo grass.  The current stuff is actually fake, because the buffalo grass has some kind of blood thinner and the FDA banned it in 1978, but it’s still good.  My uncles used to have bottles of the real stuff and brought it out on holidays.  They’re all over 80 and still healthy as horses, so maybe it’s really good stuff<g.

Sounds like a deal.  There’s a Slovenian on my floor–I’ll start working on him for a bottle. This Clave might take on an Eastern European flavor.  Maybe a nice flanken would serve as well. Scott

Response:

Screw this wussy stuff and bring on the Slivovitz!!  I’ll try to get some for Penns 2002! Scott

Plum Vodka from one of the slavic countries Czechoslovakia? Poland? national drink. There is a plum brandy that is good too. — Don Thompson Another Thompson Scion

Response:

Screw this wussy stuff and bring on the Slivovitz!!  I’ll try to get some for Penns 2002! Scott

If you bring that I’ll make sure to get a bottle of Zubrowka – Polish vodka flavored with buffalo grass.  The current stuff is actually fake, because the buffalo grass has some kind of blood thinner and the FDA banned it in 1978, but it’s still good.  My uncles used to have bottles of the real stuff and brought it out on holidays.  They’re all over 80 and still healthy as horses, so maybe it’s really good stuff<g.

Response:

<good TR snipped some sort of Scandinavian drink made from potatoes called (it sounded like at least) Aqua Feet

FYI: http://www.britannica.com/seo/a/aquavit/

Response:

  some sort of Scandinavian drink made from potatoes called (it sounded like at least) Aqua Feet FYI: http://www.britannica.com/seo/a/aquavit/

Thanks for the link Stan.  I still think my description and the name of Aquafeet should be used despite what the encyclopedia has to say about it. <g Lou gave some interesting history about this drink.  Apparently crossing the equator makes it taste better so the good stuff is stamped with when and on what boat it crossed the equator.  If nothing else, it made the drink more interesting because it had a history. — Warren Findley Remove (nospamZZ) to respond via email http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt/

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – some sort of Scandinavian drink made from potatoes called (it sounded like at least) Aqua Feet FYI: http://www.britannica.com/seo/a/aquavit/ Thanks for the link Stan.  I still think my description and the name of Aquafeet should be used despite what the encyclopedia has to say about it. <g Lou gave some interesting history about this drink.  Apparently crossing the equator makes it taste better so the good stuff is stamped with when and on what boat it crossed the equator.  If nothing else, it made the drink more interesting because it had a history. — Warren Findley Remove (nospamZZ) to respond via email http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt/

Screw this wussy stuff and bring on the Slivovitz!!  I’ll try to get some for Penns 2002! Scott

Response:

Lou Teletski and his friends (Jim, Tom and Eric) have been out in Yellowstone for a week and are leaving today.  I finally got my life caught back up from the Conclave and was able to swing over there yesterday to fish with Lou and his friends.  We met at his hotel room in Gardiner early yesterday morning and decided to go fish some water in the Park that they have never done well on.  This stretch of river can be difficult to fish for a variety of reasons, especially when the fish are uncooperative.  I wasn’t sure what to expect for today.  Hayden Valley was socked in with smoke from a couple of fires in the area.  Depending on which way the wind blew, the smoke would either come in or blow it out and for most of the day we were fortunate to be without. We arrived on the water a little after 9 and were all on the water around 9:40 or so.  There were some Gray Drake spinners around, but very few fish were rising.  Before getting on the water I had given everybody a short description of what had worked for us during the Clave as well as how the Troutmaster had tackled this stretch of water.  We spread out and began fishing.  I started fishing a large stonefly nymph with a prince dropper and fished the deep slots.  I came into the first fish and radioed the group of what the fish had taken.  I caught another fish shortly thereafter and again radioed the group that the fish had again taken the prince nymph. Eric was next into fish on some sort of peacock bodied fly that closely resembled a prince.  It was nice watching Eric catch fish because he enjoyed each one as if it was his first fish.  A few fish started rising in Troutmaster Willi’s hole and I had Lou come over and fish it with me.  I switched over to an Adams and caught another fish.  Jim and Eric caught a couple of fish upstream of us.  Lou didn’t have much luck in Willi’s hole and I eventually worked my way back up to the vehicle to get a quick snack and left Lou down there to catch some fish. After watching the buffalo walked down the road and feeding some birds, Lou and I went and fished upstream of where we started.  A meadow starts in this section and there is a big cove with slow moving water.  The cove is sort of shallow and has a large flat that runs along a very deep section.  We worked our way upstream fishing this deep section and neither of us had any luck. I walked quite a ways upstream trying to find some better water, but it was all the same for as far as I could see. The water in this area would be very good to fish from a float tube because it is more like fishing a lake although it is against the rules to fish it from a float tube.  There is hardly any current and even the very structure is very lake-like.  I walked back down to Lou and we decided to work our back and fish the area we had fished earlier in the morning.  While we were going fishless, the radio crackled with news that the other three guys were getting into fish downstream. As we walked along the bank, we spotted three fish hanging out in the cove close to the bank.  Lou eventually enticed one to the surface with a Gray Wulff.  The fish had taken up positions and began feeding in an area where the cove ends and the river narrows causing the water to move a little faster.  Lou went over and began fishing while I sat on the bank and watched Lou in action.  He caught another fish in this area and the fish started rising more profusely than before.  I started fishing downstream to the fish that were hanging out on the far side of the current and was unable to get a good drift so I changed sides.  Lou in the meantime is catching fish mind you.  I worked my way downstream to an area that allowed me to cross the river and began to hear thunder in the distance.  The wind was coming in fits and during the calm periods the fish would start rising. After crossing the river I saw a bunch of fish on the flats and started fishing for these.  The fish were not taking dries however and I could see them taking nymphs of some sort.  They just swam a couple feet to either side very nonchalantly and opened their mouths to these drifting morsels of food.  I added a small pheasant tail dropper and started fishing the Adams and the dropper.  I didn’t have much luck with the Adams so switched over to a Gray Wulff with the PT dropper.  The wind just happened to pick up and made casting next to impossible where I was at and the thunder started booming very close to our location.  Jim, Tom and Eric packed up and headed upstream while Lou crossed the river. As Lou and I were discussing leaving, a large cutthroat came up and hammered my Gray Wulff.  The fish dove into a weed bed and I lost the fish.  I put a couple more casts out and had another nice sized fish take the PT dropper. This fish ran for the rocks and I could feel the leader ticking up against the rocks before the tippet finally gave out.  We decided to get off the water because of the weather and headed up to the vehicles.  By the time we had put away our gear, the storm had passed and a large group of Gray Drakes were hovering over the vehicle.  We decided to head back to Gardiner for dinner and call it a day.  They still had some packing to do after all. The results were we caught 17 fish with none under 16" between the five of us.  I don’t think anyone caught any 16" fish either.  Most fish seemed to hover around the 17" to 18" range with a few larger that pushed into the  20+" range.  Unfortunately, Tom never did get a fish.  This river has a way of keeping at least one person in the group very humble and my last trip to this river had left me skunked. After a great meal and good conversation we headed back to their room for some coffee and a special drink that Lou had brought.  I say special not because it was so tasty, but because it was from Sweden I think.  It is supposedly some sort of Scandinavian drink made from potatoes called (it sounded like at least) Aqua Feet and that is how it should be said and written IMO because it tasted like someone had mashed up rotten oranges with dirty feet.  We talked for quite some time before I decided it was getting late and I still had a decent drive ahead of me so I should depart.  I had a wonderful time with these guys and was thankful that I had the opportunity to meet Lou.  Another good example as to the quality of the people you meet by way of ROFF.  I couldn’t have asked for a better day or better company other than getting Tom into some fish. — Warren Findley Remove (nospamZZ) to respond via email http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt/

Response:

Question:

The 4th Court of Crim Appeals, SA,  has ordered a new trial on the grounds of "ineffective counsel."  It seems the defendant, accused of robbing a C-store, wore the same distinct shirt, with a picture of his dog, to voir dire, that he wore on the video, robbing the store, and his counsel’s failure to object was "i.c."

What a boob.   On the one hand, I don’t understand what is objectionable about it that leads to the i.c. basis.   I mean, the guy wore it volutarily and produced evidence "in plain sight".   No way even a competent defense attorney could have anticipated this.   (Apparently I didn’t learn much from the OJ trial.) OTOH, who’s to say he didn’t buy the shirt at Goodwill or find it in a dumpster. Can’t see how having the shirt months after the crime is much evidence (other than circumstantial) of anything.   If the police had found it in his posession the night of the crime, that’s one thing, but weeks or months later its trail is pretty stale IMHO. Also can’t swallow the "waste of tax dollars" assertion.   In a climate where so many are vocal about the government taking away our rights, isn’t it good to see a case where the government is protecting them?   Still, what a boob. Joe F.

Response:

The 4th Court of Crim Appeals, SA,  has ordered a new trial on the grounds of "ineffective counsel."  It seems the defendant, accused of robbing a C-store, wore the same distinct shirt, with a picture of his dog, to voir dire, ___that he wore on the video___, robbing the store, and his

counsel’s failure to object was "i.c." What a boob.   On the one hand, I don’t understand what is objectionable about it that leads to the i.c. basis.   I mean, the guy wore it volutarily and produced evidence "in plain sight".   No way even a competent defense attorney could have anticipated this.   (Apparently I didn’t learn much from the OJ trial.)

One of my points, in general. OTOH, who’s to say he didn’t buy the shirt at Goodwill or find it in a dumpster. Can’t see how having the shirt months after the crime is much evidence (other than circumstantial) of anything.   If the police had found it in his posession the night of the crime, that’s one thing, but weeks or months later its trail is pretty stale IMHO.

Pretty unlucky find, I’d say:  A guy who looks exactly like the accused dumping off the shirt, and our hapless accused being unlucky enough to buy/find it.  From what I’ve heard, this is one of those, "I’m not saying I didn’t do it, I did it, I’m just saying it wasn’t ‘fair’." Plus, the police didn’t find it, he produced it.  What’s he going to say, Mark Furrmann(sp?) dressed him? Also can’t swallow the "waste of tax dollars" assertion.   In a climate where so many are vocal about the government taking away our rights, isn’t it good to see a case where the government is protecting them?   Still, what a boob.

No, this is a waste.  He was a) stupid enough to rob a store at gunpoint, for money, b) stupid enough to prove himself guilty (or is that guilty enough to prove himself stupid? – either way…) TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Joe F.

Response:

(snip)  Besides, his lawyer probably *should* have told him how to dress as part of his job in this case, the guy wasn’t arrested for bitch slapping someone at a Mensa meeting, after all. — Charlie…

I don’t think bitch slapping at a Mensa meeting is a crime at all, Charlie. As to the case in question, I must cast my lot with the appeals court that reversed the conviction.  Whether it was intentional or unintentional, craftiness or stupidity, the essence of our system is that a trial in which a person’s liberty or life is at stake should be as fair as possible.  Hell, I think even the trial judge could have properly corrected this situation before it became a problem.  Someone mentioned this in a previous post, but in my mind most states are penny wise and pound foolish when it comes to assuring that all criminal defendants have competent counsel and related support for a defense.  Because it’s politically unpopular to provide such for indigent defendants, the resources are not allocated in the first instance; then, when the conviction is reversed the taxpayer pays all over again. Mark Faulkner

Response:

(snip)  Besides, his lawyer probably *should* have told him how to dress as part of his job in this case, the guy wasn’t arrested for bitch slapping someone at a Mensa meeting, after all. — Charlie… I don’t think bitch slapping at a Mensa meeting is a crime at all, Charlie.

OK, so that part is simple reflex, but… As to the case in question, I must cast my lot with the appeals court that reversed the conviction.  Whether it was intentional or unintentional, craftiness or stupidity, the essence of our system is that a trial in which a person’s liberty or life is at stake should be as fair as possible.  Hell, I think even the trial judge could have properly corrected this situation before it became a problem.  Someone mentioned this in a previous post, but in my mind most states are penny wise and pound foolish when it comes to assuring that all criminal defendants have competent counsel and related support for a defense.  Because it’s politically unpopular to provide such for indigent defendants, the resources are not allocated in the first instance; then, when the conviction is reversed the taxpayer pays all over again.

What?  Do you truly believe this?  Why is it encumbering to the people of Texas to defend such a person?   While I believe in the 5th Amendment, what possible defense is there against a guilty person’s own stupidity?  The goal of the system is (or at least should be) the truth, and we have it, and the defendant willingly and openly provided evidence.  The adversarial system wasn’t compromised, no abuse took place, there is nothing to correct.  What exactly wasn’t "fair"?   CDAs argue when the accused is in jailwear, so he got to wear his own stuff. Seemingly, under this theory, testimony regarding the fact the gun was found at his home should be disallowed because his counsel was too ineffective to tell him to get rid of it. R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Mark Faulkner

Response:

Shoot, Peter.  Somehow I can not see our esteemed roffian lawyers fishing with K-Mart blue light specials!  It is blaspheme, I tell ya…….  <g Louie, who don’t need to stinkin’ lawy…..errrrr.   Don’t wanna burn bridges here……

Our esteemed roffian lwayers would *never* make such an egregious error, maybe in their choice of fly or scotch perhaps, but never in a court room. Peter (sucking up big time)

Response:

Shoot, Peter.  Somehow I can not see our esteemed roffian lawyers fishing with K-Mart blue light specials!  It is blaspheme, I tell ya…….  <g Louie, who don’t need to stinkin’ lawy…..errrrr.   Don’t wanna burn bridges here…… Our esteemed roffian lwayers would *never* make such an egregious error, maybe in their choice of fly or scotch perhaps, but never in a court room. Peter (sucking up big time)

You misspelled "laywayers"… <G R

Response:

Our esteemed roffian lwayers

waylers, maybe? — Charlie…

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What’s he going to say, Mark Furrmann(sp?) dressed him? LOL.   YEAH! That’s it! No, this is a waste.  He was a) stupid enough to rob a store at gunpoint, for money, b) stupid enough to prove himself guilty (or is that guilty enough to prove himself stupid? – either way…) Well, I gotta think he was convicted on a lot more than this dumb shirt.   His picture on the camera & I assume the eyewitness testimony of the clerk. Possibly fingerprints or other physical evidence.   However, your points above seem a circular argument.   He’s guilty because he has the shirt, and the shirt shouldn’t matter because he’s guilty anyway.   Frankly the shirt sounds like a red herring.   If counsel was otherwise competent and the evidence was otherwise conclusive, it does seem a waste of resources; but the rights of the accused are paramount in our system (that’s why Wayno can afford a T&T or two).   I like it that way in general, even when a specific case makes it difficult to remember.

I’m not sure what you mean by red herring, but if you mean it is simply a guilty man’s way of taking another bite, I agree.  To me, it is like someone who confesses (uncoerced), and then tries to "legal" their way out of it.  Further, I think the rights of the accused are important, but this isn’t protecting his rights against or in an adversarial system, perfect or imperfect.  It isn’t even "self-incrimination" in the 5th Amendment sense.  This is excusing his own stupidity: he’s guilty, but he’s stupid, and his lawyer _may_ be ineffective, but let’s start over with "better" counsel.  The DA and cops didn’t dress him, trick him into wearing it, plant it on him, or anything else. R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Joe F.

Response:

Our esteemed roffian lwayers waylers, maybe? — Charlie…

don’t I get any points fro getting ‘egregious’ right? jeez, this is a tough croud. Peter

Response:

don’t I get any points fro getting ‘egregious’ right? jeez, this is a tough croud.

fro? <g — Charlie…

Response:

don’t I get any points fro getting ‘egregious’ right? jeez, this is a tough croud. fro? <g — Charlie…

For the "stuck in the seventies" lwayers… <G R

Response:

[snip] This is excusing his own stupidity: he’s guilty, but he’s stupid, and his lawyer _may_ be ineffective, but let’s start over with "better" counsel.  The DA and cops didn’t dress him, trick him into wearing it, plant it on him, or anything else.

I don’t disagree, but I’m not sure you can carry ‘presumed innocence’ too far. Besides, his lawyer probably *should* have told him how to dress as part of his job in this case, the guy wasn’t arrested for bitch slapping someone at a Mensa meeting, after all. — Charlie…

Response:

Peter Charles: I don’t know what our angling lawyers may think of this idea, but perhaps it would be appropriate in cases where a gross error by an officer of the court resulted in a costly delay or mistrial, that officer had to personally foot the bill for at least a portion of the court costs.  Might make some of the inattentive sit up and pay attention. Peter

Shoot, Peter.  Somehow I can not see our esteemed roffian lawyers fishing with K-Mart blue light specials!  It is blaspheme, I tell ya…….  <g Louie, who don’t need to stinkin’ lawy…..errrrr.   Don’t wanna burn bridges here……

Response:

What’s he going to say, Mark Furrmann(sp?) dressed him?

LOL.   YEAH! That’s it! No, this is a waste.  He was a) stupid enough to rob a store at gunpoint, for money, b) stupid enough to prove himself guilty (or is that guilty enough to prove himself stupid? – either way…)

Well, I gotta think he was convicted on a lot more than this dumb shirt.   His picture on the camera & I assume the eyewitness testimony of the clerk. Possibly fingerprints or other physical evidence.   However, your points above seem a circular argument.   He’s guilty because he has the shirt, and the shirt shouldn’t matter because he’s guilty anyway.   Frankly the shirt sounds like a red herring.   If counsel was otherwise competent and the evidence was otherwise conclusive, it does seem a waste of resources; but the rights of the accused are paramount in our system (that’s why Wayno can afford a T&T or two).   I like it that way in general, even when a specific case makes it difficult to remember. Joe F.

Response:

The 4th Court of Crim Appeals, SA,  has ordered a new trial on the grounds of "ineffective counsel."  It seems the defendant, accused of robbing a C-store, wore the same distinct shirt, with a picture of his dog, to voir dire, that he wore on the video, robbing the store, and his counsel’s failure to object was "i.c."  Well, maybe, but two things come to mind:  Shouldn’t the obvious guilt matter?  Punish the attorney, perhaps, but how effectively _can_ one defend such a person?  And, this is exactly the ridiculousness in the system that gets "the average Joe and Jane" so upset.  Unless the attorney dressed this guy, our tax dollars get to pay for another trial for a guilty man. R

Response:

The 4th Court of Crim Appeals, SA,  has ordered a new trial on the grounds of "ineffective counsel."  It seems the defendant, accused of robbing a C-store, wore the same distinct shirt, with a picture of his dog, to voir dire, that he wore on the video, robbing the store, and his counsel’s failure to object was "i.c."  Well, maybe, but two things come to mind:  Shouldn’t the obvious guilt matter?  Punish the attorney, perhaps, but how effectively _can_ one defend such a person?  And, this is exactly the ridiculousness in the system that gets "the average Joe and Jane" so upset.  Unless the attorney dressed this guy, our tax dollars get to pay for another trial for a guilty man. R

True, it is very annoying to think of the wasted dollars and time involved but given the number of high profile cases being overturned by DNA evidence, (especially north of the border) where the quality of counsel was at best questionable, I think this is the price we have to pay to enshrine the concept in law. I don’t know what our angling lawyers may think of this idea, but perhaps it would be appropriate in cases where a gross error by an officer of the court resulted in a costly delay or mistrial, that officer had to personally foot the bill for at least a portion of the court costs.  Might make some of the inattentive sit up and pay attention. Peter

Response:

Question:

I don’t know why the thought of asking the group this question didn’t occur to me until now, but I’m supremely confident that you all (that would be y’all) can set me straight. I’m not sure, but I seem to be putting too much power into my casts.   On my forward cast, the line & leader will occasionally straighten out then recoil into a less than beautiful wiggle on the surface.   When I concentrate (admittedly my weak point), I can lower my rod tip as the line goes forward and that seems to take the jerk out of it (at the other end, that is). This is difficult to control, though; and sometimes I take away too much and the leader never straightens.   Still, I think this is only coping with the symptom, not the cause. Am I in fact overpowering the cast?   Do I just need to ease up a little on the forward stroke?   What else could I be doing wrong?   At present, this is my major flaw in presentation.   I have no problem with practice, practice, practice; but I fear I may develop worse habits if I continue to practice a bad motion. Joe F.

Response:

Could be your line is one weight too light for the rod or your leader is too short OR the leader(tippet) is too light for the fly you’re casting…. Without seeing you cast, it’s tough to diagnose….kinda like tellin a mechanic "every time I drive my car it makes a sound like WHIRR WHIRR CLICK CLAK…do you know what it is????" I’d try by process of elimination to determine if any of the above work for you. Larry #:)#

Response:

Joe F. writes:

<<I’m not sure, but I seem to be putting too much power into my casts.   On my forward cast, the line & leader will occasionally straighten out then recoil into a less than beautiful wiggle on the surface. Could be you *are* overpowering your casts.  I had (and still do a lot of time) the same problem,  I believe it was Peter Charles that told me to try putting my extended index finger on the grip instead of my thumb.  It worked wonderfully.  It seems it is difficult to overpower your cast with your hand so placed. Give it a try and come back and report, or else wait for Peter to chime in.  <g  He’ll have the answer for sure. Dave LaCourse

Response:

I don’t know why the thought of asking the group this question didn’t occur to me until now, but I’m supremely confident that you all (that would be y’all) can set me straight. I’m not sure, but I seem to be putting too much power into my casts.   On my forward cast, the line & leader will occasionally straighten out then recoil into a less than beautiful wiggle on the surface.  

You are "over powering" your cast but if you’re fishing dries, "over powering" is one technique to help get a drag free drift. That "wiggle" on the surface is good (as long as it isn’t too excessive) because it will allow for a longer drag free float than with a perfectly straight leader. Willi

Response:

I also cast with my index finger on the grip and this works nicely for me.  One of the easiest things to do when trying to make that little extra further cast is to apply too much power to the rod.  Good timing seems more important to me when making these "longer" casts.  And as you mentioned; Practice, practice, practice, and listen to what many of the regular posters suggest here~~They really know their stuff. Jeff Boks Fly Fishing~~~~~Just Do It

Response:

Joe: You’re getting some good advice.  I’ll add that even a perfect cast will have leader recoil if you check up on the rod tip hard at the end of the forward stroke.  That’s why it doesn’t happen when you lower the rod tip.  But as Willi has noted, that is exactly what you want to do if you want all those curves on the water to give you a better dry fly float. Mark Faulkner – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t know why the thought of asking the group this question didn’t occur to me until now, but I’m supremely confident that you all (that would be y’all) can set me straight. I’m not sure, but I seem to be putting too much power into my casts.   On my forward cast, the line & leader will occasionally straighten out then recoil into a less than beautiful wiggle on the surface.   When I concentrate (admittedly my weak point), I can lower my rod tip as the line goes forward and that seems to take the jerk out of it (at the other end, that is). This is difficult to control, though; and sometimes I take away too much and the leader never straightens.   Still, I think this is only coping with the symptom, not the cause. Am I in fact overpowering the cast?   Do I just need to ease up a little on the forward stroke?   What else could I be doing wrong?   At present, this is my major flaw in presentation.   I have no problem with practice, practice, practice; but I fear I may develop worse habits if I continue to practice a bad motion. Joe F.

Response:

Could be you *are* overpowering your casts.  I had (and still do a lot of time) the same problem,  I believe it was Peter Charles that told me to try putting my extended index finger on the grip instead of my thumb.  It worked wonderfully.  It seems it is difficult to overpower your cast with your hand so placed.

Dave (and Pete): that is indeed a sure way to under-power a casting stroke. Unfortunately, it’s also a sure way to develop RSI in your wrist and forearm. There are less injurious ways to deal with a power & timing problem… As for the resulting wiggles providing a benefit: better to learn the proper, bread-and-butter wiggle-free cast, then learn a proper "pile" cast for when it’s needed. A good "pile" will one hell of a lot of wiggles into the line and provide a much longer drag-free drift than an overpowered cast ever will. /daytripper

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No wonder he doesn’t fish anymore.  He’s gone blind. – Mu – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <<I had this problem until I started wanking with the other hand to compensate….hell I was getting a 22 inch forearm. Is that why they call you "Stubby"?  <g Dave & co., I don’t understand T-Bonics.  Please explain using clinical terms. It’s what he became a master at before becoming a master angler. — Charlie…

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Mu: <<No wonder he doesn’t fish anymore.  He’s gone blind. Brings new meaning to the term "catch and kill". <g Dave LaCourse

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Al:  is it really you?  man it’s good to see you back.  If you get a chance, drop me a note as to your whereabouts these days. And to the newer ROFFians, Al has been a great help to many of us with advice on all topics.  Not to worry, Al – that stretch of the _____ you put me on a couple years ago in M_____ will always be safe with me! Mark Faulkner – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Joe, For years I had trouble with my casting and practice did not seem fix it because I was doing exactly like you were concerned about – practicing my mistakes. One day I was testing rods at a fly fishing show and a gentleman walked over and offered a bit of advise. In ten minutes I knew what I was doing wrong (it took a couple of years to permanently correct the problem). That man was Mel Kreiger. I suggest you invest one hour with a competent professional. If you don’t know of one in your area call the Federation of Fly Fishers at 406-585-7592 and ask them for the name of a Certified Instructor near you. Good luck & … Tight Lines – Al Beatty http://www.btsflyfishing.com

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Aww…..TBone… So it’s not true?  In the past you used to boast about being able to switch hands without dropping a stroke…..or were you talking about GOLF then, too???? =8^)

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T-Bone: <<I had this problem until I started wanking with the other hand to compensate….hell I was getting a 22 inch forearm. Is that why they call you "Stubby"?  <g Dave LaCourse

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T-Bone: <<I had this problem until I started wanking with the other hand to compensate….hell I was getting a 22 inch forearm. Is that why they call you "Stubby"?  <g

Dave & co., I don’t understand T-Bonics.  Please explain using clinical terms. Mu

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T-Bone: <<I had this problem until I started wanking with the other hand to compensate….hell I was getting a 22 inch forearm. Is that why they call you "Stubby"?  <g Dave & co., I don’t understand T-Bonics.  Please explain using clinical terms.

Man, am I ashamed of starting the thread that led down this road!    d:-o Joe F.

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I’m not sure, but I seem to be putting too much power into my casts.

I had this problem until I started wanking with the other hand to compensate….hell I was getting a 22 inch forearm. — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

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Hi Joe, For years I had trouble with my casting and practice did not seem fix it because I was doing exactly like you were concerned about – practicing my mistakes. One day I was testing rods at a fly fishing show and a gentleman walked over and offered a bit of advise. In ten minutes I knew what I was doing wrong (it took a couple of years to permanently correct the problem). That man was Mel Kreiger. I suggest you invest one hour with a competent professional. If you don’t know of one in your area call the Federation of Fly Fishers at 406-585-7592 and ask them for the name of a Certified Instructor near you. Good luck & … Tight Lines – Al Beatty http://www.btsflyfishing.com

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For years I had trouble with my casting and practice did not seem fix it because I was doing exactly like you were concerned about – practicing my mistakes. One day I was testing rods at a fly fishing show and a gentleman walked over and offered a bit of advise. In ten minutes I knew what I was doing wrong (it took a couple of years to permanently correct the problem). That man was Mel Kreiger.

I concur.  I recently got a free casting class with the Becks and found out a couple of problems with my casting.  I always had a hook in my line when I cast and found out it was because I was twisting my wrist.  I also learned how to double haul, ect.  An hour class and a little practice makes all of the difference in the world. Warren

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I don’t know why the thought of asking the group this question didn’t occur to me until now, but I’m supremely confident that you all (that would be y’all) can set me straight. I’m not sure, but I seem to be putting too much power into my casts.   On my forward cast, the line & leader will occasionally straighten out then recoil into a less than beautiful wiggle on the surface.

Thanks to all for the advice; all of which sounds pretty good.   I’ll add that my overall problem is probably consistency.   I can cast pretty well on occasion, using roll casts, reach casts, and even throwing a nice straight line.   Sometimes, though, it just ain’t working; and finesse and delicacy act as if they don’t know me.   With my relative inexperience, I have difficulty figuring out why.   For one thing, I just need to fish more often. I’ve been "in the groove" a few times when my touch and timing were right on, and it was a beautiful thing. I’d have posted this thanks sooner, but too much good advice was pouring in. Thanks again. Joe F.

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A natural hook? And I’ve been trying to learn how to fish around corners?

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May not be the root of the problem but try releasing a loop of line in front of the reel toward the end of your forward cast. That will prevent some recoil. Steve

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t know why the thought of asking the group this question didn’t occur to me until now, but I’m supremely confident that you all (that would be y’all) can set me straight. I’m not sure, but I seem to be putting too much power into my casts.   On my forward cast, the line & leader will occasionally straighten out then recoil into a less than beautiful wiggle on the surface.   When I concentrate (admittedly my weak point), I can lower my rod tip as the line goes forward and that seems to take the jerk out of it (at the other end, that is). This is difficult to control, though; and sometimes I take away too much and the leader never straightens.   Still, I think this is only coping with the symptom, not the cause. Am I in fact overpowering the cast?   Do I just need to ease up a little on the forward stroke?   What else could I be doing wrong?   At present, this is my major flaw in presentation.   I have no problem with practice, practice, practice; but I fear I may develop worse habits if I continue to practice a bad motion. Joe F.

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Joe, I’m not the expert but here are two things that have helped me. First, taking out a whole day and fly fishing for hours on end helped me find a groove. Consistency is my problem too as I typically only fish for short periods of time when I can get away here and there.  Next, have your wife photograph (hi-speed) or videotape your stroke.  There are plenty of things which become apparent when you are watching from outside of your own body. For example, I found out that instead of drifting the rod backwards with the line after the power stroke, I was letting the tip drop below the fly line.   Of course you’ll need the discipline to consciously adjust your motions based on what you see in the video.  This is not so easy to do because unless you are used to interacting with yourself, it quickly gets boring.  I suppose having a casting instructor by your side, who engages you on a one-to-one level is of great benefit in that regard. Mu, waiting for the risers – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks to all for the advice; all of which sounds pretty good.   I’ll add that my overall problem is probably consistency.   I can cast pretty well on occasion, using roll casts, reach casts, and even throwing a nice straight line.   Sometimes, though, it just ain’t working; and finesse and delicacy act as if they don’t know me.   With my relative inexperience, I have difficulty figuring out why.   For one thing, I just need to fish more often. I’ve been "in the groove" a few times when my touch and timing were right on, and it was a beautiful thing.

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The best thing to do is to take a casting lesson from someone you know who is good, or from a good pro. The postal diagnosis of casting faults may be likened to correspondence courses in brain surgery, and the results are likely to be similarly catastrophic. An absolutely brilliant caster and fly-fisher ( the two are not necessarily synonymous ) once told me that one should practice until one could cast a perfectly straight line and leader, and having achieved this, to never ever do it again.  This applies to dry fly fishing of course, where a slack wavy leader is far better than a straight  tight one. Practising is only of use if you are practising correctly, practising incorrectly will usually result in you acquiring muscle memory for bad habits, which are then extremely difficult to get rid of.  Take a lesson and save yourself a lot of grief. TL MC

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        which leads me to ponder:  what is the sound of one fish flopping? wayno the zen master – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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wayno writes:

<<which leads me to ponder:  what is the sound of one fish flopping? It goes sorta like this: "I didn’t do it, counselor.  I *swear* I didn’t do it.  I was in church.  They’re out to get me." davo

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Question:

Hi Jerry, I am from Co fermanagh in the North, but live in Scotland.  I can give you loads of info if you’re interested.Where are you??  Gillaroo

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Planning a couple of weeks touring in Ireland, late August …..looking for suggested sites for short (1/2 day or full day)…lake or river…flyfishing….Prefer an area where there are gardens and stuff for my wife to see while I fish……plan to stay a few days in each of several areas of the country, and fish leisurely as a part…not the entire purpose…of my trip. Will take a 6 wgt. rod and my stuff…but need a guide, local flies etc etc. Recommendations? Thanks in advance, Jerry Greenhoot

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Question:

The first time I fished the Rapid River with Dave, we caught many salmon.  The next year, we did the same.   Jerry Schrader Schrader Photo http://www.weddingphoto-ma.com

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Jerry Schrader: <<The first time I fished the Rapid River with Dave, we caught many salmon. The next year, we did the same. Shhhhhhhhh, Jerry.  Remember, there are NO fish in Maine except pickeral and bass. Dave LaCourse

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Dave Tatosian: (snipped) <<- and for God’s sake: don’t tell anyone about this place! ;^) Oh, the word is out, Dave.  Unfortunately.  But I know folks that have been there and won’t go back because they didn’t catch any fish.  Being put on a body of water with salmon and trout doesn’t mean you can *catch* them.  It is a special river that requires years to learn.  I’ve seen "outsider" guides have a zilch day when all the "regulars" were taking fish. Salmon for breakfast —– oh, if only I could have some of Jan’s fresh salmon with bacon.  BTW, Stan does much of the breakfast cooking.  I can tell the difference between their scrambled eggs – Stan’s are fluffier. Dave LaCourse

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Jerry Schrader: I have stayed at Lakewood Camps several times, and loved every minute.  It’s very rustic, with anchient trappers cabins, and excellent food and menu.  I woild recommend it highly, but don’t look for cable tv.  Bring your sleeping bag, the cabins are not insulated, andif it’s chilly, the woodstove burns out in 2 hours. It *is* rustic.  The cabins date to the early 1900s and, as Jerry says, are not insulated.  There has been a fishing camp (called a "sporting camp") at Lakewood for over a hundred years.  No need to bring your sleeping bags, Jerry.  Every cabin has plenty of blankets on the comfortable beds, and if more is needed, there are comforters provided by Sue. A little trick with the woodsoves:  go behind Stan and Sue’s quarters and get BIG pieces of wood instead of the small pieces supplied in the cabins. But most of all:  the fishing is always great.  Catching can also be good. Dave LaCourse

I’ll add: – by the end of a long day of enjoying the river – and stuffed with the best camp cooking you’ll ever find (and a few gin and tonics if you please ;^) – you’ll conk out under your pile of blankets so fast you won’t care that the fire dies down in a couple of hours. – the brisk morning air will help you to pop out of bed to get in an hour of fishing before the marvelous breakfasts that the cook (Janne Provincer) provides. (btw: If you’re lucky enough to catch a good keeper salmon, have it baked for breakfast with a few strips of bacon draped over it. Yum!) – don’t *ever* try to sneak into the main building with your waders on (Sue will feed your privates to the crawfish!) – and for God’s sake: don’t tell anyone about this place! ;^) /dave ps: Louise Dickenson Rich wrote a series of novels about the river from Richardson Lake down to Umbagog, and the people of her times there. "We Took To The Woods" is an excellent winter read, as is the sequel "My Neck Of The Woods". You’ll find some outstanding photos that show things as they were around 60 years back…

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Jerry Schrader: <<I have stayed at Lakewood Camps several times, and loved every minute.  It’s very rustic, with anchient trappers cabins, and excellent food and menu.  I woild recommend it highly, but don’t look for cable tv.  Bring your sleeping bag, the cabins are not insulated, andif it’s chilly, the woodstove burns out in 2 hours.   It *is* rustic.  The cabins date to the early 1900s and, as Jerry says, are not insulated.  There has been a fishing camp (called a "sporting camp") at Lakewood for over a hundred years.  No need to bring your sleeping bags, Jerry.  Every cabin has plenty of blankets on the comfortable beds, and if more is needed, there are comforters provided by Sue. A little trick with the woodsoves:  go behind Stan and Sue’s quarters and get BIG pieces of wood instead of the small pieces supplied in the cabins. But most of all:  the fishing is always great.  Catching can also be good. Dave LaCourse

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I have stayed at Lakewood Camps several times, and loved every minute.  It’s very rustic, with anchient trappers cabins, and excellent food and menu.  I woild recommend it highly, but don’t look for cable tv.  Bring your sleeping bag, the cabins are not insulated, andif it’s chilly, the woodstove burns out in 2 hours.   Jerry Schrader Schrader Photo http://www.weddingphoto-ma.com

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Dave would you have any addreses, either e-mail or landmail for the above camps?Thanks for the help ,Ralph

Hi Ralph. Here are contacts for Grant’s and Lakewood. Grant’s Kennebago Camps P.O. Box 786 Rangely, Maine  04970 (207) 864-3608 summer (207) 282-5264 winter (800) 633-4815 out of state Lakewood Camps P.O. Address Andover, Maine 04216 Phone 207-392-1581 I’ll see if I can dig up an "off season" phone number for Lakewood. While Stan and Sue Milton close down the camp for the winter, they have been working at Sunday River (ski area) while there’s snow so they’re somewhere in the area. But I’m not sure if they have the camp number ring at their winter quarters. Again, if there’s an outdoor show (as usual) at Worcester, that’d be a great place to meet the various camp operators. Regards, /dave

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m giving some thought, although it’s very early, as to where to go flyfishing in Maine this coming Spring. Would be very grateful for any recent opinions and experiences at: Grant’s Bosebuck Tim Pond Libby’s I’ve stayed at all but Libby’s in the last 20 years, but as you want "recent", that cuts it down to Grant’s three years ago, one week after the July 4th drake hatch: great fishing on both Big Kennebago Lake and the river below the dam, good food, good accomodations. You might also want to include Lakewood Camps on Richardson Lake on your list. The best food you’ll ever find at a camp, good fishing, great folks running the place… Assuming there’s an "outdoors show" at Worcester this spring, that’d be a good place to meet some of the camp operators… /dave Dave would you have any addreses, either e-mail or landmail for the above

camps?Thanks for the help ,Ralph

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Dave Tatosian: <<You might also want to include Lakewood Camps on Richardson Lake on your list. The best food you’ll ever find at a camp, good fishing, great folks running the place… Assuming there’s an "outdoors show" at Worcester this spring, that’d be a good place to meet some of the camp operators… I concur with Dave — best fishin and best camp.  Stan and Sue Milton run a classy joint with great fishing and food at a very resonable price.  E-mail me for their phone number. Expect anything with the Libby name to be a class act.  Great people and they have been doing it for years.  Please e-mail me if you want Mat Libby’s e-mail address.   Dave LaCourse

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I’m giving some thought, although it’s very early, as to where to go flyfishing in Maine this coming Spring. Would be very grateful for any recent opinions and experiences at: Grant’s Bosebuck Tim Pond Libby’s

I’ve stayed at all but Libby’s in the last 20 years, but as you want "recent", that cuts it down to Grant’s three years ago, one week after the July 4th drake hatch: great fishing on both Big Kennebago Lake and the river below the dam, good food, good accomodations. You might also want to include Lakewood Camps on Richardson Lake on your list. The best food you’ll ever find at a camp, good fishing, great folks running the place… Assuming there’s an "outdoors show" at Worcester this spring, that’d be a good place to meet some of the camp operators… /dave

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10/28/98 Hello: I’m giving some thought, although it’s very early, as to where to go flyfishing in Maine this coming Spring. Would be very grateful for any recent opinions and experiences at:                                     Grant’s                                     Bosebuck                                     Tim Pond                                     Libby’s Thanks, Bob Rose

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Question:

We’re looking to go fishing in Spain next spring. Having given up on the guide books I am keen to find out if anyone has been or knows of  any places to go to etc. Thanks James

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We’re looking to go fishing in Spain next spring. Having given up on the guide books I am keen to find out if anyone has been or knows of  any places to go to etc. Thanks James

James… I met a Spanish trout fishermen on the internet who may be able to give you some leads. His name is Paco…and he can be reached at If you go, let me know. Bob

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Question:

I’ve got Chesapeake Light Craft Boats and Pygmy Boats Inc. Does anyone have other kit makers for wood/fiberclass ocean boats? Any experiences good or bad with building a wood boat? Annie Oakley’s Casting & Blasting Page, shooting and fly fishing links: http://members.tripod.com/~AnnieOakley/CastAndBlast.html "Web Poison"–FREE anti-spam software:http://www.e-scrub.com/wpoison/ Phoney Spam-Bot Link: http://www.e-scrub.com/cgi-bin/wpoison/wpoison.cgi

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Nomad Sea Kayaks.  I have been told they make a good kit. http://www.clic.net/~nomad/ Mark

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Nomad Sea Kayaks.  I have been told they make a good kit. http://www.clic.net/~nomad/

I was considering one when I bought my kayak but couldn’t find anyone that knew anything about them. They are also fiberglass only, not wood/fiberglass.   The Guillemott boats (wood) look interesting as well: http://www.guillemot-kayaks.com/ I saw a boat in shop in Duck, NC (outer banks) a couple of weeks ago.  It had a fiberglass hull with a wood deck with wood hatch covers.  I have no idea what kind of kit it was built from but the owner of the shop built it and was selling it for $450. Seemed like a real good deal. John Fereira

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Question:

I talked to anglers in Alaska who were fly fishing for kings. They were doing quite well, so I asked them if they had some advice to give, what flies to use etc. They told me that they did not spend time tying flies for kings (egg suckers, fat freddies etc), instead they were using large colorful "Piece-of-yarn" flies. These flies were not really tied in a normal way; instead they used a fairly large short shank hook on which they prepared a specially designed knot, ripped off a piece of yarn, put the yarn on place and finalized the knot. It all took less than a minute and seems a good solution regarding the number of flies you lose when fishing on the bottom… My problem is: I can’t remember how they did the trick. Does anybody have a description for how to make this special knot?   What hook would be the most appropriate? Thanks in advance, Tord Andreasson Sweden

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I talked to anglers in Alaska who were fly fishing for kings. They were doing quite well, so I asked them if they had some advice to give, what flies to use etc. They told me that they did not spend time tying flies for kings (egg suckers, fat freddies etc), instead they were using large colorful "Piece-of-yarn" flies. These flies were not really tied in a normal way; instead they used a fairly large short shank hook on which they prepared a specially designed knot, ripped off a piece of yarn, put the yarn on place and finalized the knot. It all took less than a minute and seems a good solution regarding the number of flies you lose when fishing on the bottom… My problem is: I can’t remember how they did the trick. Does anybody have a description for how to make this special knot?   What hook would be the most appropriate? Thanks in advance, Tord Andreasson Sweden

the knot is the egg or bait loop. it’s been years since I tied one so my instructions may not be quite right; essentially: use Turned up eye hook. put the tippet through the eye and near the bend of the hoo start wrapping relatively loosely back to the eye about 6 wraps –  use a finger tip to hold the wraps in place. Put the tippet end back under the wraps much like a nail knot and pull it tight to snug the loops. To make the fly push slack into the tippet to open a loop over the shank stick the yarn in and tighten up. Clip to shape and size desired. Personally I just tie flies with yarn and threa at home on the same style hooks. Tkaes a minute or two per fly and doesn’t involve any fumbling on stream Ralph H remove "(take_this_out)" for email reply.

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Question:

With the current thread on the exploding float tube (Float Tube Safety – Near Drowning) I was thinking about the recent thread about the guy who drowned. It appeared that he was stuck in an upside-down float tube. A few have said that they would try to flip their tubes and see if they can get out. Has anybody tried this yet? Jon Porter

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With the current thread on the exploding float tube (Float Tube Safety – Near Drowning) I was thinking about the recent thread about the guy who drowned. It appeared that he was stuck in an upside-down float tube. A few have said that they would try to flip their tubes and see if they can get out. Has anybody tried this yet? Jon Porter

Hi Jon, Several years ago I accidently flipped my tube.  Thank god I had two friends right next to me and we were only about six feet from the bank.   I don’t think I could have gotten out of the tube by myself.  I promptly bought a pontoon boat with a rowing system (Water Otter) and have never been in a float tube since. After getting the Water Otter I purposely turned it over a couple of times to see how difficult it would be to get out of it (again with friends present to help).  I was able to free myself rather quickly on both occasions.  I’ve never had an unscheduled roll over as it seems to be quite stable.  I suppose a roll over is possible if I was not paying attention and ran one of the pontoon up on a rock in faster water. Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

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Question:

What is the best line size for small mouth fishing?

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What is the best line size for small mouth fishing?

Since smallies rarely get over 6lbs in our neck of the woods, I use 6lb Maxima (or 4lb if I want to be really subtle) on my spinning gear. I use 10-12lbs test on my baitcaster for crank baits where finesse is not a requirement. And unlike largemouth you don’t often have to horse smallies out of heavy cover so anything over 10lbs is probably overkill. David E. Malone All opinions expressed are my own.

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I have used a 7wt rod/line combo. When fishing in the shallows I look for a shorter leader, say a six footer with an eighteen inch tippet. This setup also works well in windy conditions. In deeper water like around rocks in the middle of a lake where there might be a dropoff I use a sinktip line with as long a leader as possible usually around ten feet. This is all subject to change if there is a lot of wind. Then I usually stay home and fly a kite!   Hope this is some help. A guy who knows one heck of a lot more than I do set me up this way and it seems to work.                                                         Best of luck,                                  J.Christian Decker,  Danville, NH

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What is the best line size for small mouth fishing?

Largest flies needed for SMB are #4 streamers tied sparse, which a #7 fly line can carry to maximum range.  (If not, go one fly size smaller or one fly line size heavier.) — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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I thought this group was for fly-fishermen, not Bass Masters.  I normally use a six weight line for streamers (sink tip) and an eight weight wf floating for poppers etc…

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I use anywhere from an eight weight down to a five. It depends on the stream and the fly that I want to fish with. My tippets will be from a 6x all the way to a 1x for the big ones! Jon Porter

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