Question:

Sounds like a FANTASTIC day on the water,  great report jh

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Peter Charles writes: <great report/info snipped Plans are in the offing for the next trip. Ok, I can’t make it tomorrow, but Friday is open!  d;o) Got home after an 8 hour drive (512 miles) in pouring rain, but every time I thought of those fish, I began to smile. If you’ve  fished with me, you know I don’t move around too well.  Legs and feet are very sore, but hotdamn, ya get an 18 pound salmon on a fly rod and he begins one (1) run that takes you well into your backing, ya hafta fall/leap out of the boat and run after the damn thing.  It ain’t fair.  But, is sure is heart thumping and adrenaline pumping.  And then, the bastid comes running back at you; once your get your line all wound up and clear,  he’s off on another run  into the backing   It is definitely weird to be running downstream in knee-deep water, with your flyrod high and see a fish jump 250 feet in front of you and realize that you are connected to that fish with a hundred feet of line, a hundred and forty feet of backing , 10 feet of 10 pound tippet and a fly that you *know* is gonna go straight any second.  Multiply that by 4 and you have an idea of the day Peter and I had on the Saugeen. I know where Peter lives.  I’ll be back, with a 10 foot 7 weight *with a fighting butt*, a Lamson 3.5 large arbor filled with wf line and as much backing as it can hold.  If not next month, Peter, count on late April/early May.  And this time we open the 18 year old stuff.  <G Dave

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(snip) It is definitely weird to be running downstream in knee-deep water, with your flyrod high and see a fish jump 250 feet in front of you and realize that you are connected to that fish with a hundred feet of line, a hundred and forty feet of backing , 10 feet of 10 pound tippet

(snip)     that whole thing is just crazy.  just freaking crazy.  i can’t imagine such an experience. yfitons wayno

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -wayno writes: (snip) It is definitely weird to be running downstream in knee-deep water, with your flyrod high and see a fish jump 250 feet in front of you and realize that you are connected to that fish with a hundred feet of line, a hundred and forty feet of backing , 10 feet of 10 pound tippet (snip)    that whole thing is just crazy.  just freaking crazy.  i can’t imagine such an experience. yfitons wayno

Save a day next may.  You can sleep in the rv.  I’ll let you use my 8 weight *with* the fighting butt.  I wanna see your scrawny ass runnin down the middle of this water.  <G Louie

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   that whole thing is just crazy.  just freaking crazy.  i can’t imagine such an experience. yfitons wayno

There’s a solution for that . . . . Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Peter Charles writes:    that whole thing is just crazy.  just freaking crazy.  i can’t imagine such an experience. yfitons wayno There’s a solution for that . . . . Peter

He’s used to catching iddy biddy trout the size of his dick, Peter.  He wouldn’t dream of going up and fishing with us.  The largest rod he has is a 2 weight – we’d have to loan him equipment and probably teach him how to cast it.  <seg  This water is meant for PJ and combat fishing. Louie (who hopes insults will move his scrawny ass)

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Peter He’s used to catching iddy biddy trout the size of his dick, Peter.  He wouldn’t dream of going up and fishing with us.  The largest rod he has is a 2 weight – we’d have to loan him equipment and probably teach him how to cast it. <seg  This water is meant for PJ and combat fishing. Louie (who hopes insults will move his scrawny ass)

That small eh?  In that case, I would think a 0 weight would be more appropriate.  If he came, we’d probably need a bosun’s chair just to lower him out of the boat.  BTW, think he can even lift an 8 wt.?  If he ever hooked a salmon, he’d probably throw the rod overboard from sheer fright.    (how am I doin’?) Peter

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It’s late, I’m beat, the pirate is whacked – this TR is gonna be short. Up at 4:30 and, on the road at 5:15, arrived at the store at 6:00, on the water by 8:00 and home by 9:00pm.   Louie before the trip, "I’m gonna take my 6 wt."   Told the Pirate not to bother with his vest or the 6 wt.   Well, we’re at the put-in and John Valk (owner/guide) is going "Nyet" to the 6 wt.  Out comes the 8 wt.  Now I’m looking at Louie and the fighting butt on the 8 wt. is missing, "I took it off." he says.  Silly boy.  By the end of the day, there’s no vest, the 6 wt. never left its tube and he has a hole in his sternum where he had stuck the reel seat on repeated occasions. Best shot of the day – watching Louie’s face as his backing rapidly disappears.  Second best shot of the day, seeing Louie running 100 yds downstream trying to retrieve his backing – after vaulting out of the drift boat. Anyway, a bunch of very feisty chinook was had and all returned in one piece (including the anglers).   Details at 6:00. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Anyway, a bunch of very feisty chinook was had and all returned in one piece (including the anglers).   Sounds great.  Were there any steelhead in as yet ? Remove "XX" from address

We saw a few but the real run hasn’t gone going yet.  We need colder temps and a *lot* more water. As John fussed with the boat and stuff, there were a bunch of salmon playing in the shallows.  I had a poke at them with the big stick but no joy.  With that experience, I put it away and took out a single hander. Dave got out a rarely used Orvis 8 wt. with a big sinktip that proved to be a difficult line to use in the low water conditions. Dave, by his own admission, was unsure what this fishing would be about and when we found a pod of about 20 salmon cavorting about, he had two silver dollars for eyeballs.   John has a particular way of doing a wet fly swing (he likes the fly oriented north-south – I tend to a broadside presentation) but we both used John’s technique.  We swim the fly in front of the pod and hope that a big, pissed-off male will charge out and nail it.  Frequently, we were not disappointed and Dave got a very lively fish out of this pod within a couple of minutes. Dave hooked up first (a fish probably in the low teens) which promptly peeled off all of his line and a good quantity of backing.  It was a great intro to Saugeen salmon fishing.  He eventually ended up about 100 yards downstream where the fish was netted. A couple of points about these fish.  Credit River salmon are stocked and live in Lake Ontario whereas the Saugeen fish are naturals and live in Lake Huron.  You cannot imagine how much difference this results in.  Saugeen fish, even 70 miles upstream, are fairly bright and in excellent shape.  Credit River stockers are only a few miles up stream and already black and rotting.  The Saugeen fish takes off at a high rate of knots when released, even after a long fight.  He’s usually back cavorting in a minute or two.  Credit River fish often roll over an die upon release after a half-hearted fight.  John told us a story of catching the same chinook three times in succession and it fought just as hard the third time as it did the first. The Saugeen was especially low and clear so the fish were always very obvious.  We drifted over a few steelhead, loads of huge smallies, some browns, red horse suckers, carp, and a few unidentified.  The colours were especially bright in the high sun, and with the warm day, it was a very pleasant trip all-round. Final results were something like four fish each landed and multiple hookups (including one double).  Most of the fish were in the teens but one of mine was over 20 lbs.  We saw and hooked a few bruisers that ran over 30.  All of them took off in long runs.  Some of the fish were quite aerobatic with jumps, lunges and tumbles that often resulted in them being wrapped up in line.  One of mine began to fight funny after a few minutes. On initial hookup, the fish stuck his head out of the water with an open mouthed head shake that told of a fair hook.  By the time we got him landed, the fly was still in his mouth but he had about five winds of line around one fin.  Dave had one where the fly started off in it’s mouth and ended up in it’s tail.  We figured it too got wrapped up in line and then the fly came loose only to reattach. I’ll have a trip on my site by next week with pics that will give some indication of the river and the fish.   It was fun as always having the Pirate up and Thanksgiving dinner will long be remembered for the gales of laughter and the sore sides we had in the morning. Plans are in the offing for the next trip. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Peter Charles writes: <great report/info snipped Plans are in the offing for the next trip.

Don’t wait too long. Ok, I can’t make it tomorrow, but Friday is open!  d;o)

At the Salmon River, Saugeen next week. Got home after an 8 hour drive (512 miles) in pouring rain, but every time I thought of those fish, I began to smile.

probably brighter than those bright blue Audi headlights. If you’ve  fished with me, you know I don’t move around too well.  Legs and feet are very sore, but hotdamn, ya get an 18 pound salmon on a fly rod and he begins one (1) run that takes you well into your backing, ya hafta fall/leap out of the boat and run after the damn thing.  It ain’t fair.  But, is sure is heart thumping and adrenaline pumping.  And then, the bastid comes running back at you; once your get your line all wound up and clear,  he’s off on another run  into the backing   It is definitely weird to be running downstream in knee-deep water, with your flyrod high and see a fish jump 250 feet in front of you and realize that you are connected to that fish with a hundred feet of line, a hundred and forty feet of backing , 10 feet of 10 pound tippet and a fly that you *know* is gonna go straight any second.  Multiply that by 4 and you have an idea of the day Peter and I had on the Saugeen.  

It was a memorable day fer sure.   I know where Peter lives.  I’ll be back, with a 10 foot 7 weight *with a fighting butt*, a Lamson 3.5 large arbor filled with wf line and as much backing as it can hold. If not next month, Peter, count on late April/early May.  And this time we open the 18 year old stuff.  <G

You mean, like again! Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Peter Charles writes:

<great report/info snipped Plans are in the offing for the next trip.

Ok, I can’t make it tomorrow, but Friday is open!  d;o) Got home after an 8 hour drive (512 miles) in pouring rain, but every time I thought of those fish, I began to smile. If you’ve  fished with me, you know I don’t move around too well.  Legs and feet are very sore, but hotdamn, ya get an 18 pound salmon on a fly rod and he begins one (1) run that takes you well into your backing, ya hafta fall/leap out of the boat and run after the damn thing.  It ain’t fair.  But, is sure is heart thumping and adrenaline pumping.  And then, the bastid comes running back at you; once your get your line all wound up and clear,  he’s off on another run  into the backing   It is definitely weird to be running downstream in knee-deep water, with your flyrod high and see a fish jump 250 feet in front of you and realize that you are connected to that fish with a hundred feet of line, a hundred and forty feet of backing , 10 feet of 10 pound tippet and a fly that you *know* is gonna go straight any second.  Multiply that by 4 and you have an idea of the day Peter and I had on the Saugeen.   I know where Peter lives.  I’ll be back, with a 10 foot 7 weight *with a fighting butt*, a Lamson 3.5 large arbor filled with wf line and as much backing as it can hold.  If not next month, Peter, count on late April/early May.  And this time we open the 18 year old stuff.  <G Dave

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Sounds like a great trip. Sight fishing for big fish, can’t beat that! Did you catch anything other than the Chinooks?

Nope, we were hoping for steelhead but the conditions were too warm and the water too low.  We saw lots of smallies but with the low, clear water, we saw them when we spooked them.   Not sure I’d call the the Saugeen fish "natural" but the same differences you found here between the stocked and streambred salmon also applies to trout. Even though the genetics might be the same, the stocked fish act differently even after being in the wild for a considerable time. Willi

I used the term ‘natural’ to mean naturally reproducing.  While these chinook exhibit superior characteristics as compared to their stocked cousins, I haven’t seem the same difference between natural and stocked browns on the Grand.  That may have something to do with how the Grand stocking program is managed. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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I thought that Ontario had stopped stocking chinook altogether, but I guess not, eh ?   The strain of chinook used for stocking is one that does not move in until quite late.  I’ve read that what has happened in some cases where natural reproduction has been established is that over generations the salmon have tended to come into rivers earlier and earlier prior to spawning.  It sounds like the Saugeen is one of them.

I’ve always understood that Credit River chinook were stocked as the prospects for natural reproduction were poor.  John confirmed that they were stockers. I’ve not heard about earlier runs but with the Saugeen being farther north, an earlier run is to be expected.  There’s no question that they are much healthier fish. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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      Anyway, a bunch of very feisty chinook was had and all returned in one   piece (including the anglers).       Sounds great.  Were there any steelhead in as yet ?     Remove "XX" from address       A couple of points about these fish.  Credit River salmon are stocked   and live in Lake Ontario whereas the Saugeen fish are naturals and   live in Lake Huron.  You cannot imagine how much difference this   results in.  Saugeen fish, even 70 miles upstream, are fairly bright   and in excellent shape.  Credit River stockers are only a few miles up   stream and already black and rotting.  The Saugeen fish takes off at a   high rate of knots when released, even after a long fight.  He’s   usually back cavorting in a minute or two.  Credit River fish often   roll over an die upon release after a half-hearted fight.  John told   us a story of catching the same chinook three times in succession and   it fought just as hard the third time as it did the first. Sounds like a great trip. Sight fishing for big fish, can’t beat that! Did you catch anything other than the Chinooks? Not sure I’d call the the Saugeen fish "natural" but the same differences you found here between the stocked and streambred salmon also applies to trout. Even though the genetics might be the same, the stocked fish act differently even after being in the wild for a considerable time. Willi

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Question:

Any thoughts by anyone as to what (sometimes) works there, if anything-ever, would be MOST appreciated.

Bob, Best fishing is in low light conditions….dawn, dusk/dark, rain. (refer back to my ‘Fishing in the rain’ post, the location was the flat water below the Y-Pool.)  In daylight, small flies on 7X/8X tippets will work when the trout are feeding. Sight fishing works much better than using an indicator. Many times the trout simply don’t feed during daylight. If you get too frustrated, go downstream and play with the little rainbows…..they feed all the time. George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

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……back channel me and I will type it for you…

Oh man, this place is getting REALLY disgusting!! Wolfgang "She said,’That ain’t the way to have fun, son.’"

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I think that the absolutely most frustrating place I have ever, ever, fished has to be the Y pool on the Swift below the Quabbin.

<snipped Bob, just got back from a morning on the stream…anyway the owner of the local fly shop was my partner and I brought him up to show him the Roffians and my new vise.  He read your post and muttered, "South Platte Brassy, that’ll do it."  I have no idea if it will, of course,  but I felt compelled to send his suggestion on…If your are at all interested and you don’t have the formula, I found it in one of my books, just back channel me and I will type it for you… Padishar Creel

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello: I think that the absolutely most frustrating place I have ever, ever, fished has to be the Y pool on the Swift below the Quabbin. Was there again yesterday from about 8 AM  to noon, and the Rainbows were so thick you literally had to watch where you stepped.  The density of them was just incredible; it was as if you were in a Hatchery. Naturally, as usual, I didn’t catch anything there.  Must be the world’s most discriminating trout. Not that the few others there did much better-I think one fellow caught one while i was trying. Tried just about everything in the Orvis catalog, from large to midges, dries, nymphys, etc. Even a streamer.  Anyway, was a most beautiful day. Any thoughts by anyone as to what (sometimes) works there, if anything-ever, would be MOST appreciated.

LOL! I’ve been fishing at the deflectors and have witnessed people storming down the trail from the Y-pool just a cussin’ and a fumin’ like you wouldn’t believe. By this time of year those fish will take you to school. I guess it can get the better of you if you aren’t careful… I’ve fished the Y on and off for 35 years. Caught my first big rainbow on a fly there when I was 13. Over the years I’ve had luck at the Y using small PT nymphs, RFSH nymphs, Sulfur dries (late evening hatch), beetles (especially Jassids using real JC nails), ants of various styles, and of course, micro-minutiae midge larva (ie: a #26 is a big one). If the fish aren’t actively feeding, I  still start out with a PT nymph and see what happens.  If the trout are into their "smutting" act, you can try bowling tiny gray or rust midge larva on a long 7x-8x tippet at the risers and strike on anything close. Tough on the eyes – I was much better at this when I was twenty years younger – but it will work. Less often successful, but a lot easier on the eyes, is to plop an ant or beetle down along the rocks on the far side of the tail-out… Fwiw, I used to watch the Old Man of the Y Pool stand for hours catching trout using a small light-blue-over-white streamer. Go figure… /daytripper

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Hello: I think that the absolutely most frustrating place I have ever, ever, fished has to be the Y pool on the Swift below the Quabbin. Was there again yesterday from about 8 AM  to noon, and the Rainbows were so thick you literally had to watch where you stepped.  The density of them was just incredible; it was as if you were in a Hatchery. Naturally, as usual, I didn’t catch anything there.  Must be the world’s most discriminating trout. Not that the few others there did much better-I think one fellow caught one while i was trying. Tried just about everything in the Orvis catalog, from large to midges, dries, nymphys, etc. Even a streamer.  Anyway, was a most beautiful day. Any thoughts by anyone as to what (sometimes) works there, if anything-ever, would be MOST appreciated. Bob

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Try another catalogue perhaps? TL MC — "In order to know what is possible one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello: I think that the absolutely most frustrating place I have ever, ever, fished has to be the Y pool on the Swift below the Quabbin. <SNIP Tried just about everything in the Orvis catalog, from large to midges, dries, nymphys, etc. Even a streamer.  Anyway, was a most beautiful day. Any thoughts by anyone as to what (sometimes) works there, if anything-ever, would be MOST appreciated. Bob

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Question:

Anyone have an aluminum jon boat that they can recommend?

Rich, If it’s just for yourself try a ten foot aluminium jon boat.  Sea Nymph is a good brand.  It’s very light and doesn’t draw much water.   I believe you can get one new for about $500.00 – if it’s used, in my neck of the woods (Sullivan County, New York), they go for about $150 to $200 though the newspapers.   Plus, you can stand in them  when you cast which you really can’t do in a kayak or, for that matter, in a canoe. Merry Christmas, Tony Ritter – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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Seconding another poster, have you considered a kayak?  Simple, light (50-80 pounds), easy to carry single-handed (simply hold it over your head and trot along), much faster than other paddle-powered boats (you will leave a rowboat in the dust, metaphorically speaking, and a canoe too), and stable enough if you get the right one.  If you get enthusiastic and skilled enough, you can even paddle these out into the ocean and saltwater fish. I would particularly look at the Folboat (sp?) brand of folding sea kayaks. These have a frame that you assemble and then insert into a rubber/fabric skin.  The advantages over regular kayaks are: the cockpit is open (your legs are exposed, rather than being tucked into a round coaming) which would make it easy to stash tackle bags, small coolers, the paddle, the rod, etc. which otherwise have to be strapped to the rounded top of the boat; these are beamy (wide) boats and hence very stable — not as stable as a jonboat and you won’t stand up in it, but if you have a minimum of coordination you’ll find it just fine to paddle, fish, even snooze in a seated position; because they break down and fit into a large duffel bag, you can stuff it in the trunk of your car or a closet or even check it on a plane; and, as folding kayaks go, it’s inexpensive (in the ballpark of $500-700 used for a single boat, I *think* — check out rec.boats.paddle.)  Hardcore sea kayakers may tell you the Folboat isn’t tough enough: they’re talking about multi-day ocean trips loaded with 100 pounds of food and water and launching through heavy surf, which isn’t too relevant for your usage.   Another folding kayak with a similar design, but tougher and more expensive, is the Klepper series.  (Kleppers have crossed the Atlantic, in fact.)  Overkill for fishing on a lake, and older ones might need too much TLC, but if you found one used for cheap enough it’d be OK. Yet another is the Feathercraft series.  I think these are tremendous for ocean use (I have two Feathercraft K-1’s) but they have a traditional hard cockpit coaming (not an open cockpit) and are definitely overkill (used price is like $3000).  I have flyfished from my Feathercraft off the California coast and found it a pain, since there was no handy place to put my rod when I picked up the paddle or vice versa. Another idea along the kayak line would be one of the surfboard style kayaks.  I don’t recall the actual name for this type.  They are molded out of a single piece of plastic, you sit in a molded depression, they are really quite cheap and capable but you do not stay dry so unless you like wearing wetsuits or fish in warm water . . . but might be a way to try out the concept for cheap, by renting one for a weekend. If you do choose a kayak, take a course in handling them and safety.   — Using Virtual Access http://www.soft-shop.com

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I’m looking for ideas and info. on what you all think is the ideal boat/pram for fly fishing.   I plan to fish small lakes that I will need to row, or use an electric or gas motor (if allowed).  The boat needs to be somewhat light (100# thereabouts) because I will have to lift and carry it maybe 100 yards to launch in some cases.  I can car top or trailer, does not matter. I have seen the dinky prams in the magazines, but I think I need more room. Anyone have an aluminum jon boat that they can recommend? Appreciate any help Rich

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If I were you I would look into a kayak. I upgraded from a float tube and think it’s great! If you want  I have some group postings I can email you. They helped me make my decision. Lot’s of good people in the group so you will get more good input, maybe more than you want. Mike – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m looking for ideas and info.

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Question:

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4K Download

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This page works great on my UNIX based ASCII news reader, it’s beautiful…

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Question:

hello- the deschutes can be tricky. one suggestion is to try to get a elks hair caddis to the fish working in back eddies. unless you are in a boat it can be tough getting a good drift-

snip Fishing from a floating devise is illegal on the lower Deschutes (below Warm Springs which includes Madras). Jim Jones For e-mail reply replace spam with sns

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Elkhairs caddis work most all the time down from Warm Springs thru Maupin. I really love PMDs in the summer.  Sometimes they hatch so thick they cover you with a carpet of wings! Always take a variety of other mayfly. When the water is low I love the stimmulators. Bill

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Two things: 1. It’s illegal to fish from a boat (the regs say "any floating device supporting the angler", or some such, ruling out rafts, pontoons, float tubes, … as well). A boat has the advantage of allowing you to cover more river, and to get to places which are difficult to reach on foot. 2. In general, you’ll have better luck with caddis larvae and pupae than with adults. I like to fish soft hacles or emergent sparkle pupae during a hatch… Stu – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – hello- the deschutes can be tricky. one suggestion is to try to get a elks hair caddis to the fish working in back eddies. unless you are in a boat it can be tough getting a good drift- but if you can figure it out you will be rewarded. when nymphing be sure to get a drag free dead drift. i have only used floating lines on the deschutes so i can’t help with sinking line techniques. i’m pretty sure there is a flyshop in madras- you can ask them what nymphs are working best. in the past i have done well with an olive serendipity. be sure and be on the water at dusk- sometimes the fish go after the caddis flies and it can be a blast. greg

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: hello- : the deschutes can be tricky. one suggestion is to try to get a : elks hair caddis to the fish working in back eddies. unless you : are in a boat it can be tough getting a good drift- but if you : can figure it out you will be rewarded. Ummm… perhaps I am mistaken, but I thought it was against the regs to fish from a boat on the Deschutes? — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

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How do – Just wondering if anybody has some suggestions for working the Deschutes around Mecca Flats, in Eastern Oregon.  Dry vs Wet?  Floater vs sinker?  I’m relatively new to fly fishing, though no stranger to the NW river systems.  I was down there last weekend, and only brought in one trout.  I’m by no means discouraged, but want to file this away as a learning experience, and was wondering if any kind souls here could give an example of a ‘Deschutes Recipe for success’ for this time of year. I did have a great time, but it’s always better with more fish in the hand! Thanks, Adrian B.

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Want to fly fish Idaho in July. Dont know where to go.Any suggestions?Dry and nymph fishing. I would go to Silver Creek, about 45 min. southeast of Ketchum/Sun Valley. It is a spring creek and is very special. I would stop in Silver Creek Outfitters in Ketchum and get some good flies for that time period. Ask them what time of day to fish which flies. You will need a #3, #4 or soft #5 rod with a floating line. They usually have a Trico spinner fall in the morning starting somewhere around 8 am and ending well before noon depending on the weather. The mid-day is pretty tough, but 5/6pm ’til dark should be another good period. Many anglers stop by this area on the annual pilgrimage to Montana. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

There is also a little-known spring creek on the Fort Hall Indian Reservation about 10 miles north of Pocatello, Idaho. you need a tribal permit, which last I knew was $10.00/day. This is a sizable piece of water which flows into American Falls Reservoir. Very prolific Pale Morning Dun hatches (Ephemerella Infrequens) mostly size 16 also E. Doddsi size 18. Educated fish along with masking hatches etc. good challenge. Not far out of the way if a person is at Silver Creek, about 3 hours drive. Jim Nelson

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: I would go to Silver Creek, about 45 min. southeast of Ketchum/Sun Valley. It is : a spring creek and is very special. I would stop in Silver Creek Outfitters in : Ketchum and get some good flies for that time period. Ask them what time of day : to fish which flies. You will need a #3, #4 or soft #5 rod with a floating line. I believe there is now a Silver Creek Outfitters down by the creek, on the road to Ketchum.  It might be something else, but I seem to recall it is Silver Creek Outfitters. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Want to fly fish Idaho in July. Dont know where to go.Any suggestions?Dry and nymph fishing. I would go to Silver Creek, about 45 min. southeast of Ketchum/Sun Valley. It is a spring creek and is very special. I would stop in Silver Creek Outfitters in Ketchum and get some good flies for that time period. Ask them what time of day to fish which flies. You will need a #3, #4 or soft #5 rod with a floating line. They usually have a Trico spinner fall in the morning starting somewhere around 8 am and ending well before noon depending on the weather. The mid-day is pretty tough, but 5/6pm ’til dark should be another good period. Many anglers stop by this area on the annual pilgrimage to Montana. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY There is also a little-known spring creek on the Fort Hall Indian Reservation about 10 miles north of Pocatello, Idaho. you need a tribal permit, which last I knew was $10.00/day. This is a sizable piece of water which flows into American Falls Reservoir. Very prolific Pale Morning Dun hatches (Ephemerella Infrequens) mostly size 16 also E. Doddsi size 18. Educated fish along with masking hatches etc. good challenge. Not far out of the way if a person is at Silver Creek, about 3 hours drive. Jim NelsonEvery river is going to be raging until August or September.  Put your

trip off until then or look to fish the lakes, ie. Henry’s lake Guy

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Want to fly fish Idaho in July. Dont know where to go.Any suggestions?Dry and nymph fishing. I would go to Silver Creek, about 45 min. southeast of Ketchum/Sun Valley. It is a spring creek and is very special. I would stop in Silver Creek Outfitters in Ketchum and get some good flies for that time period. Ask them what time of day to fish which flies. You will need a #3, #4 or soft #5 rod with a floating line. They usually have a Trico spinner fall in the morning starting somewhere around 8 am and ending well before noon depending on the weather. The mid-day is pretty tough, but 5/6pm ’til dark should be another good period. Many anglers stop by this area on the annual pilgrimage to Montana. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY There is also a little-known spring creek on the Fort Hall Indian Reservation about 10 miles north of Pocatello, Idaho. you need a tribal permit, which last I knew was $10.00/day. This is a sizable piece of water which flows into American Falls Reservoir. Very prolific Pale Morning Dun hatches (Ephemerella Infrequens) mostly size 16 also E. Doddsi size 18. Educated fish along with masking hatches etc. good challenge. Not far out of the way if a person is at Silver Creek, about 3 hours drive. Jim NelsonEvery river is going to be raging until August or September.  Put your trip off until then or look to fish the lakes, ie. Henry’s lake Guy

 In most cases the high water doesn’t have a large effect on the spring creeks. The spring creeks on the Fort Hall reservation do rise and become somewhat off-color, but they do remain fishable.  I was told, since my earlier post, that the tribe is now limiting the number of permits sold, and that all the available season permits have been sold. I don’t know this for sure, nor do I know if daily permits are still available. Before a person came here to fish it would be prudent to call the Fort Hall Tribal headquarters and find out. Jim N.

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Want to fly fish Idaho in July. Dont know where to go.Any suggestions?Dry and nymph fishing.

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: Want to fly fish Idaho in July. Dont know where to go.Any suggestions?Dry : and nymph fishing. Which part… it’s a big state.  And like night and day. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

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Robert, I’m going out in July…I plan to go to the Big Wood River & Silver Creek in the south central part of Idaho.  Never been exactly there, but I’ve read a couple of favorable things about the area and it looks like a good destination.  Most of my 13 day trip is in Montana, but this looks a good diversion.   Ray Palmer

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Want to fly fish Idaho in July. Dont know where to go.Any suggestions?Dry and nymph fishing.

I would go to Silver Creek, about 45 min. southeast of Ketchum/Sun Valley. It is a spring creek and is very special. I would stop in Silver Creek Outfitters in Ketchum and get some good flies for that time period. Ask them what time of day to fish which flies. You will need a #3, #4 or soft #5 rod with a floating line. They usually have a Trico spinner fall in the morning starting somewhere around 8 am and ending well before noon depending on the weather. The mid-day is pretty tough, but 5/6pm ’til dark should be another good period. Many anglers stop by this area on the annual pilgrimage to Montana. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

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Question:

hi all, has anyone done any FFishing in Turks Caicos.  i’m going there for my honeymoone and need to know if i should pack my 7 weight! thanks in advance! -eric — Oracle DBA                     GE Fanuc                      Phone:  (804) 978-5945

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hi all, has anyone done any FFishing in Turks Caicos.  i’m going there for my honeymoone and need to know if i should pack my 7 weight! thanks in advance! -eric — Oracle DBA                     GE Fanuc                  Phone:  (804) 978-5945

I say yes, my wife says no (and with great emphasis I might add). David726 E-mail for further assistance to:

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hi all, has anyone done any FFishing in Turks Caicos.  i’m going there for my honeymoone and need to know if i should pack my 7 weight! thanks in advance! -eric — Oracle DBA                     GE Fanuc                      Phone:  (804) 978-5945

You better have the right woman to try fishing on your honeymoon.  Luckily I do.  We took our ‘moon in Nantucket and I went fishing one day.  Got a few striper too.  If it’s okay with her I would say bring it and find out about the opportunities lsater. — Gordon Churchill Flyfish NC http://www.planet-nc.com/flyfishnc/ Striped Bass on the Roanoke River, Hybrids on Jordan Lake, Largemouths on surface.  Pickup and dropoff in Research Triangle Park

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If you’re going on a honeymoon, you are taking the wrong rod! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -hi all, has anyone done any FFishing in Turks Caicos.  i’m going there for my honeymoone and need to know if i should pack my 7 weight! thanks in advance! -eric — Oracle DBA                     GE Fanuc                  Phone:  (804) 978-5945

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Question:

Interesting to hear Dave talk about green flies.  Several of us did well hooking carp in the Carson River, NV last year while fishing bead-head green crystal buggers, size 12, upstream like a nymph.  Also caught lots of trout.  May be just a coincidence. Regards, Dick Hubbard

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I live near a lake full of large carp up to 40 lbs. When I was younger, I use to catch them with a spinning rod and a nightcrawler. These large trash fish fight extremely well and I think would be a great way to past the time during those hot summer months with a fly rod. Any suggestions on what type of flies one might want to use. I see them in the shallows as well as at the surface and appear to be extremely spooky. Any suggestions for flies and techniques would be greatly appreciated. — Mark Neumann

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I live near a lake full of large carp   Any suggestions for flies and techniques would be greatly appreciated. –I  have just come back from the second disatorous trip trying to

catch what look to be 10-12 pounders in shallow water in Tx. Based on my success thus far, I think perhaps something in a .22LR, with perhaps a bit of gold rib might be the best way to go. Seriously if any one has had success i’d like to hear about it.                                                    Jay – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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Gentlemen: In a local pond, I have caught carp up to eight pound with an olive wooly bugger.  It really helps to stay hidden from the fish and also to use the lightest line size you can get away with-I went from using a 9wt. to a 6wt. and that helped a lot.   Also, it’s better to fish when the water is murky.  In spite of what some people seem to think, carp have excellent eyesight.  Also, try to wade as little as possible. good luck, G-Man

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I live near a lake full of large carp   Any suggestions for flies and techniques would be greatly appreciated. –I  have just come back from the second disatorous trip trying to catch what look to be 10-12 pounders in shallow water in Tx. Based on my success thus far, I think perhaps something in a .22LR, with perhaps a bit of gold rib might be the best way to go. Seriously if any one has had success i’d like to hear about it.                                                    Jay

Wait until the carp are spawning in very shallow water.  Take any fly, it doesn’t matter which one, and tie it to a large rock — 20 lb will do nicely.  Throw the rock on the carp.  Collect the carp and your fly.   Repeat.

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I really like algae fly patterns!  Parahcute hoppers work, too.  They look like popcorn!  

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I live near a lake full of large carp up to 40 lbs. When I was younger, I use to catch them with a spinning rod and a nightcrawler. These large trash fish fight extremely well and I think would be a great way to past the time during those hot summer months with a fly rod. Any suggestions on what type of flies one might want to use. I see them in the shallows as well as at the surface and appear to be extremely spooky. Any suggestions for flies and techniques would be greatly appreciated. — Mark Neumann

Hi Mark, Hoppers and Wooly Buggers work well on the Yellowstone River. I would suspect they would work in your area as well, especially the Buggers. Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

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McCullough) writes:

: : :I live near a lake full of large carp   Any suggestions for flies and techniques would be greatly :appreciated. : :–I  have just come back from the second disatorous trip trying to :catch what look to be 10-12 pounders in shallow water in Tx. Based n my success thus far, I think perhaps something in a .22LR, with :perhaps a bit of gold rib might be the best way to go. Seriously :if any one has had success i’d like to hear about it. :                                                   Jay : Jay, they are a very difficult fish to fool as you have discovered for yourself.  I caught a 4 pounder during lunch hour on a local park pond just a few days ago.  I was using a black Marabou Worm but have used rust brown, white and yellow in the past with fair success.  A dead drift near bottom dead in front of them seems to work best.  

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McCullough) writes: : : :I live near a lake full of large carp   Any suggestions for flies and

techniques would be greatly – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -:appreciated. : :–I  have just come back from the second disatorous trip trying to :catch what look to be 10-12 pounders in shallow water in Tx. Based n my success thus far, I think perhaps something in a .22LR, with :perhaps a bit of gold rib might be the best way to go. Seriously :if any one has had success i’d like to hear about it. :                                                   Jay : Jay, they are a very difficult fish to fool as you have discovered for yourself.  I caught a 4 pounder during lunch hour on a local park pond just a few days ago.  I was using a black Marabou Worm but have used rust brown, white and yellow in the past with fair success.  A dead drift near bottom dead in front of them seems to work best.  

Carp are suckers for the following patterns: 1. Borgers Fleeing Crayfish – particularly olive         tie them in different sizes till you hit on one they like.         Lots of crayfish patterns work well. So do W.Buggers. 2. Small nymphs – anything like a Hare’s Ear or an all-purpose black 3. Green rockworms work well at times. 4. They will even rise to dry flies!!! That’s a hoot. Just match the     hatch. 5. If there is a fruit tree, particularly a mulberry, hanging out over   the water then whip up a bunch of flies to imitate the fruit –  The well known mulberry hatch on the Potomac River is a classic  example.                 HRS III 6. If all else fails, chum them up with bread and tie up a roughly trimmed wonderbread special with bleached deer hair.

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I live near a lake full of large carp up to 40 lbs. When I was younger, I use to catch them with a spinning rod and a nightcrawler. These large trash fish fight extremely well and I think would be a great way to past the time during those hot summer months with a fly rod.

Trash Fish?  Scale, skin, and soak them overnight in salt water and lemon juice and then fry them out – can’t tell them from bass. ..course, ’round these here parts, we like to wait till they start rolling up next to the bank and then fish with bow and arrow, pitchfork, or extended net…come to think of it, I need to start sharpening that pitchfork – only a couple more weeks til carp season! – saw one Sunday in about a foot of water under the canoe that had to be all of three feet long – it was huge! Network and Medical Information Systems Manager Richland Memorial Hospital The University of South Carolina School of Medicine Department of Family and Preventive Medicine WWW.PREVMED.SC.EDU/FP/CMOORE.HTM Writer, Poet, and Couch Tater by trade, Systems Integrator by financial need; educated by college, loved by friends, misunderstood by peers, and Southern, by God. My Opinions are probably my own…

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I live near a lake full of large carp   Any suggestions for flies and

techniques would be greatly appreciated. Hi–I have been catching carp for years in TexAs with what I call a Grass

Fly-just some greenrubber on a strong hook. I pick up grass clippings from the local yard men and dump[ them in the water where carp have been seen. They slurp everything down with their hose like noses and that includes your fly. Thiis trick never misses the Amur carp is a vegetarian and likkes grass better than cheese! I have caught as many as 8-10  carp averaging 20 lbs-no fish story! Use a 6 weight and you can have a ball! Good Luck                                              The Ancient Angler

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Not sure I’m that proud of it but I’ve caught many carp with an Olive Wooly Bugger. The same I use for Trout. Use a sinking line and just draw it across in front of it when he arrives. I got a 40 pounder last year lik that. You can see a picture of it gracing my free fishing Log. http://www.articfire.com/arcfire/index.htm. Follow the links. They dont fight hard but this one fought long. Very long. Bob Sheedy

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Mark. We treat our carp with a bit more respect in the UK so pitchforks, bows and arrows and foul hooking fish are out. I’ve taken carp to 10Lbs on maribou tailed lures of all colours and sizes plus a few on various nymph patterns. Pre baiting a swim with grass cuttings is a method the Germans use. They tie on grass to the hook or bits of green raffene to fool the fish. Best of all is the pellet fly. This is a trimmed deer hair pattern intended to imitate a trout pellet. Get your carp stocks used to picking up free offerings of trout pellets, then cast your artificial into the fray.                          Tight lines. Dave T. writes I live near a lake full of large carp up to 40 lbs. When I was younger, I use to catch them with a spinning rod and a nightcrawler. These large trash fish fight extremely well and I think would be a great way to past the time during those hot summer months with a fly rod. Any suggestions on what type of flies one might want to use. I see them in the shallows as well as at the surface and appear to be extremely spooky. Any suggestions for flies and techniques would be greatly appreciated.

– dave tait

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Question:

I am new to the newsgroup and seem to be having a problem. I use Flash Sessions on AOL then read the posts from Personal Filing Cabinet. The problem I have is I seem to be losing the original posts and only have the replies (Re…xxx).  Sometimes I can "read between the lines" and figure out the original message, but not always. Am I doing something wrong? Anyone form AOL to help? BTW I am really enjoying the discussions! Thanks, J Lynn Wright

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I am new to the newsgroup and seem to be having a problem. I use Flash Sessions on AOL then read the posts from Personal Filing Cabinet. The problem I have is I seem to be losing the original posts and only have the replies (Re…xxx).  Sometimes I can "read between the lines" and figure out the original message, but not always. Am I doing something wrong? Anyone form AOL to help? BTW I am really enjoying the discussions! Thanks, J Lynn Wright

 Dont’ know the answer but I’m on internet and the postings change very rapidly. I’d guess the newsgroup server is small and old messages are overwritten by newer ones. I think the definition of old is about 2 days. I have no idea what the number in parns is either. Maybe hits?

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am new to the newsgroup and seem to be having a problem. I use Flash Sessions on AOL then read the posts from Personal Filing Cabinet. The problem I have is I seem to be losing the original posts and only have the replies (Re…xxx).  Sometimes I can "read between the lines" and figure out the original message, but not always. Am I doing something wrong? Anyone form AOL to help? BTW I am really enjoying the discussions! Thanks, J Lynn Wright Dont’ know the answer but I’m on internet and the postings change very rapidly. I’d guess the newsgroup server is small and old messages are overwritten by newer ones. I think the definition of old is about 2 days. I have no idea what the number in parns is either. Maybe hits?

   I use netscape on the internet and I’ve noticed many articles are delayed a week or more (the posting date is usually included on the original post).   If you are responding to a post and want the original poster to see it in a timely manner, then you might consider mailing a copy to the poster.    I knew Tim W. gave it long before I read his post because I got everybodies response to it.  (Tim, you’re taking this group too seriously.) Rob Gregoire Dallas, Tx

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writes: I am new to the newsgroup and seem to be having a problem. I use Flash Sessions on AOL then read the posts from Personal Filing Cabinet. The problem I have is I seem to be losing the original posts and only have the replies (Re…xxx).  Sometimes I can "read between the lines" and figure out the original message, but not always. Am I doing something wrong? Anyone form AOL to help?

I use the same system to flash mail and newsgroups and sometimes the replies show up before the original post.  That’s usually no big deal as many of the replies copy the original part of the message.  This happens on all systems (I also have a netcom account) so don’t worry about it. You’re not doing anything wrong.                                         Welcome to the neighborhood,                                                                  Dan Dan Gracia                                                               Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am new to the newsgroup and seem to be having a problem. I use Flash Sessions on AOL then read the posts from Personal Filing Cabinet. The problem I have is I seem to be losing the original posts and only have the replies (Re…xxx).  Sometimes I can "read between the lines" and figure out the original message, but not always. Am I doing something wrong? Anyone form AOL to help? BTW I am really enjoying the discussions! Thanks, J Lynn Wright Dont’ know the answer but I’m on internet and the postings change very rapidly. I’d guess the newsgroup server is small and old messages are overwritten by newer ones. I think the definition of old is about 2 days. I have no idea what the number in parns is either. Maybe hits?   I use netscape on the internet and I’ve noticed many articles are delayed a week or more (the posting date is usually included on the original post).   If you are responding to a post and want the original poster to see it in a timely manner, then you might consider mailing a copy to the poster.

The newsreader that you use has nothing to do with the amount of propogation delay encountered on your system.  Actually, you’re talking about two different things here.  The propogation delay an article has from the time it is posted until the time it appears on your system is the result of the number of systems it has to pass through, the bandwidth of the networks they are on, and how each system is configured to pass on article onto the system it is feeding.  Some system will queue articles and send as a batch.  If any intermediate system between the posting host and the system on which you’re running your newsreader is experience problems (such as a disc space shortage) the propogation delay might be high. The other issue is related to expire times.  Each news site can be configure to "expire" articles after a certain time.  If a site has a disc space shortage that time might be real short (like 2 days).  If the article isn’t read from the time that it appears on your system until it’s expire time you won’t see it (except maybe as part of a response). I know this has nothing to do with fishing but I thought some might appreciate an explanation about how the articles you post and read make their way around the Internet. — John Fereira Isis Distributed Systems – Ithaca, NY

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Question:

I would like you to take note of my new e-address <My old one has expired and I guess I was on a demo period

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For those who couldn’t discern our location-CFS is a San Francisco Bay Area (reputed to have the largest concentration of whitewater boaters in the galaxy)

Hmmm…I wonder where they all are when I’m visiting my family in Berkeley and environs?  Mine is the only whitewater boat I ever see on top of a car or next to a house in any of my family members’ and friends’ neighborhoods…which is fine by me.  Who wants to boat in a crowd anyway? — Chris

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(Robert Mault) writes: For those who couldn’t discern our location-CFS is a San Francisco Bay Area (reputed to have the largest concentration of whitewater boaters in the galaxy) Hmmm…I wonder where they all are when I’m visiting my family in Berkeley and environs?  Mine is the only whitewater boat I ever see on top of a car or next to a house in any of my family members’ and friends’ neighborhoods…which is fine by me.  Who wants to boat in a crowd anyway? — Chris

Ya’ see, we keep our boats inside mosta’ tha time ’cause a all that great Cal sunshine! Ain’t ta’ good for the plastic and glass. I remember livin’ in Charlotte and it wasn’t nothin’ like here. Hey wait, I just saw a boat out in downtown San Jose! He was paddlin’ main street!  ’Kay, sometimes we get a bit a rain… Later, Aaron — "Nothing more is needed to destroy a man, than the conviction that his life’s work is useless."  -Antonin Artaud

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For those who couldn’t discern our location-CFS is a San Francisco Bay Area (reputed to have the largest concentration of whitewater boaters in the galaxy) based organization with a POB & Voice Mail in Marin County and meetings at the University of California on Parnassus Ave. in San Francisco. More Info: (415) 435-7936 and/or read above message. "Go w/the flow"-"Z".

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For those who couldn’t discern our location-CFS is a San Francisco Bay Area (reputed to have the largest concentration of whitewater boaters in the galaxy)

Funny…every diversion that I’m into seems to have the most interest base in the bay area. Flyfishing, Astronomy, and Kayaking all have more participants in the bay area than anywhere else in the country (as a group). Too bad it costs so damn much to live there. Kai

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