Question:

It sounds like that fish needed to be caught like he needed a hole in his head!!! ARG… Eric

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This summer, I either caught or witnessed being caught the same fish 7 different times from the same pool, once each on 7 different fishing trips. The trout had a very unique circular hole in its head, looked like it had been pecked at by a heron. Every visit I made to that pool, either on my own, with a friend, or with a client, resulted in that same fish getting caught. Tim Lysyk timlysyk at telus dot net

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<SNIP. Now the real dilemma. What to do with a dead fish right in front of our campsite knowing that there’s a griz in the area. I slid it back into the water and had a sleepless night.

Its only a dead fish.  There are a lot of other reasons for sleepless nights. Few of them have to do with fish. TL MC

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I don’t have a story to add, but I wanted to write-in to say that this is a darned interesting thread. Keep them coming. Memphis Jim

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – recent threads…. what is the strangest, perhaps the weirdest trout you have caught on the fly? one that always amuses me, and provides fond memories, is a brookie that was taken on up high on the spine of grandfather mountain, up high on boone’s fork… a few years ago… i approached the curvaceous body with eager anticipation. every nerve on edge, every move forsaken, every breath…. well, bated. the body of my desire being that of waterworn, finely sanded granite, obviously the design of a female god…. hence the sexuality….. and obviously, the desire to fondle the trout that lay at the artistic granitic turn in the clear pristine waters beneath the ever-present, prevalent growth of rhododendron. a few here at roff have fished this forlorn yet gorgeous pool…. i have taken them there…. i digress… the cast was adequate. the tippet turned over to present the fly. it stuck….. adhered in a spider’s web strung between some low-riding rhodo branches….  the fly dangling about six inches above the surface of the crisp cool mountain water. shit. i’m flummoxed as to how to loosen the fly without spooking the fish i just know is residing below. i try a soft twitch of my rod, transmitting a soft and gentle energy via the line to the leader, through the hewn tippet knots, onward, ever so craftily to the tippet. the fly sveltely dances, as it precariously dangles from the web…. but does not dislodge. whoosh…. sweet baby jesus…. a take. the brookie has leapt from the depths like a submarine launched missile and taken the fly. once hooked, the darling was brought to hand rather easily, as he was shy of a foot by a few inches. i have never caught a trout like that again, but whenever i see a spider web spun close to the water, i try to recreate the –waldo

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While the legal requirement to return a mortally wounded fish if it’s undersized, or caught in a C&R area, or otherwise "illegal" to keep seems nonsensical at first, but the reason is logical and actually rather obvious. Without the requirement, it would be impossible to enforce the regulations. Also, like Ken and and Jim point out, it also doesn’t do any great harm (although I’m pretty sure Tbone is extremely offended by the practice). I will very occasionally keep a doomed fish caught in C&R waters, but only when I’m damned sure I won’t be caught with it. It does feel somehow ethically wrong to release it, even if it’s legally right.

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  I’ve thought about this a bit since it happened. My first thought was   that it’s pretty damn silly to "waste" a fish that’s already dead   regardless of Park regulations to the contrary. Why not just fry it up   and eat it, especially since putting it back could be considered tempting   fate in grizzly country. But I’ve come around to the position that   considering ME not eating the fish to be the equivalent of "wasting" the   fish is wrongheaded. There are many organisms, from the microscopic to the   aforementioned griz that would consider that carcass a feast. I did the   right thing.   For me, it’s a tough call. Fish dying and returning to the ecosystem is how they evolved, but not returning fish that were killed by angling. I think it’s a weakness of C&R regulation. I think you should keep and eat a fish that’s badly hooked, but like RW said, if that were allowed the regulation would be unenforceable. Willi

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My wife and I fished with a guide in Maine last year. We both made it clear that we were C&R only – something the guide practiced as well. My wife hooked a 10" Brookie as we sailed through some white water. No way to stop, we could only drag the fish behind us. By the time we were through, the rapids had gotten the best of the little Brookie (that and the fact that the fish had taken the fly very deeply for some reason). Then the debate was on – do we keep the little guy (he was under the size limit as I recall) illegally and at least he serves some purpose, or put him back to float down stream. Decided quickly to return him to the ecology. Plenty of things feasted on him. Never regreted it a bit. Course, not the same as a 22" Cutty, but I don’t believe it would have changed my decision. I’m with you Ken. Jim Ray

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – … What to do with a dead fish … Shoulda kept it in your tent. Unethical. I’ve thought about this a bit since it happened. My first thought was that it’s pretty damn silly to "waste" a fish that’s already dead regardless of Park regulations to the contrary. Why not just fry it up and eat it, especially since putting it back could be considered tempting fate in grizzly country. But I’ve come around to the position that considering ME not eating the fish to be the equivalent of "wasting" the fish is wrongheaded. There are many organisms, from the microscopic to the aforementioned griz that would consider that carcass a feast. I did the right thing. — Ken Fortenberry

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… What to do with a dead fish … Shoulda kept it in your tent.

Unethical. I’ve thought about this a bit since it happened. My first thought was that it’s pretty damn silly to "waste" a fish that’s already dead regardless of Park regulations to the contrary. Why not just fry it up and eat it, especially since putting it back could be considered tempting fate in grizzly country. But I’ve come around to the position that considering ME not eating the fish to be the equivalent of "wasting" the fish is wrongheaded. There are many organisms, from the microscopic to the aforementioned griz that would consider that carcass a feast. I did the right thing. — Ken Fortenberry

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Now the real dilemma. What to do with a dead fish right in front of our campsite knowing that there’s a griz in the area. I slid it back into the water and had a sleepless night.

Shoulda kept it in your tent.

Response:

recent threads…. what is the strangest, perhaps the weirdest trout you have caught on the fly? …

Slough Creek circa 1980 something, I caught a 22" cutthroat and when I brought it to hand the hopper was impaled on the OUTSIDE of the gill plate. I went to pluck it off only to realize that the fish had inhaled the hopper. The fly had gone in its mouth, out the gills, and then attached itself to the outside. Needless to say, when I plucked at the fly the tippet, which was still in the fishes mouth, sliced through the gills. A bloody mess and I knew I had a dead fish on my hands. My wife, who is normally off doing photography while I fish, was looking on because she was afraid to get off by herself. The rangers had warned us about a female griz in the area. I had to sheepishly admit that I’d killed the fish despite my rather pompous pontificating about C&R around the campfire the night before. Now the real dilemma. What to do with a dead fish right in front of our campsite knowing that there’s a griz in the area. I slid it back into the water and had a sleepless night. — Ken Fortenberry

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recent threads…. what is the strangest, perhaps the weirdest trout you have caught on the fly?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Almost caught…. I was fishing on the N.F. Clearwater below Kelly Forks, casting across a deep pool to a little riff, up comes a 6 inch rainbow. I started pulling the little guy toward me and it dove down about 10 feet away, all of the sudden this 6 inch rainbow was stripping line off my reel. I fought the fish for a few minutes and got it within sight. A bull trout had latched onto the side of the rainbow, I pulled the two fish up and tried to net them, as I went down with the net and the bull trout let go. I stood there with a puzzled look on my face explaining the story to my friend down the way. During out conversation the 6 inch trout was up at the surface swimming around, once again the bull trout came back and latched on. I fought the pair, this time almost netting the fish. Wish I had, the bull trout looked to be in the 25 inch range. I release the rainbow, he seemed to be okay despite the teeth marks in his side. I had read a similar story however, never thought I would experience it first hand.

Had a customer hook a 14" cutthroat on the Blackfoot once. As he was bringing it in a very large pike took the trout and held on for a good ten minutes. We worked him into an eddy but couldn’t even begin to get him even half into the net (which will hold fish in the 18" to 22" range without difficulty). He finally let go after several attempts just to scoop him up onto the bank. We didn’t want to scoop him into the inflatable raft we were drifting in. The trout was trashed but, due to catch-and-release regs, we had to release it. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

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This summer, I either caught or witnessed being caught the same fish 7 different times from the same pool, once each on 7 different fishing trips. The trout had a very unique circular hole in its head, looked like it had been pecked at by a heron. Every visit I made to that pool, either on my own, with a friend, or with a client, resulted in that same fish getting caught. Tim Lysyk timlysyk at telus dot net

Response:

— Fly fishing is the most fun you can have … standing up.   Greg

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – recent threads…. what is the strangest, perhaps the weirdest trout you have caught on the fly? one that always amuses me, and provides fond memories, is a brookie that was taken on up high on the spine of grandfather mountain, up high on boone’s fork… a few years ago… i approached the curvaceous body with eager anticipation. every nerve on edge, every move forsaken, every breath…. well, bated. the body of my desire being that of waterworn, finely sanded granite, obviously the design of a female god…. hence the sexuality….. and obviously, the desire to fondle the trout that lay at the artistic granitic turn in the clear pristine waters beneath the ever-present, prevalent growth of rhododendron. a few here at roff have fished this forlorn yet gorgeous pool…. i have taken them there…. i digress… the cast was adequate. the tippet turned over to present the fly. it stuck….. adhered in a spider’s web strung between some low-riding rhodo branches….  the fly dangling about six inches above the surface of the crisp cool mountain water. shit. i’m flummoxed as to how to loosen the fly without spooking the fish i just know is residing below. i try a soft twitch of my rod, transmitting a soft and gentle energy via the line to the leader, through the hewn tippet knots, onward, ever so craftily to the tippet. the fly sveltely dances, as it precariously dangles from the web…. but does not dislodge. whoosh…. sweet baby jesus…. a take. the brookie has leapt from the depths like a submarine launched missile and taken the fly. once hooked, the darling was brought to hand rather easily, as he was shy of a foot by a few inches. i have never caught a trout like that again, but whenever i see a spider web spun close to the water, i try to recreate the –waldo

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is that what they call guiness out yer way? ;^) –waldo

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snip< i have never caught a trout like that again, but whenever i see a spider web spun close to the water, i try to recreate the

You recreated the scene nicely IMHO.  :-) Joe F.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – recent threads…. what is the strangest, perhaps the weirdest trout you have caught on the fly? one that always amuses me, and provides fond memories, is a brookie that was taken on up high on the spine of grandfather mountain, up high on boone’s fork… a few years ago… i approached the curvaceous body with eager anticipation. every nerve on edge, every move forsaken, every breath…. well, bated. the body of my desire being that of waterworn, finely sanded granite, obviously the design of a female god…. hence the sexuality….. and obviously, the desire to fondle the trout that lay at the artistic granitic turn in the clear pristine waters beneath the ever-present, prevalent growth of rhododendron. a few here at roff have fished this forlorn yet gorgeous pool…. i have taken them there…. i digress… the cast was adequate. the tippet turned over to present the fly. it stuck….. adhered in a spider’s web strung between some low-riding rhodo branches….  the fly dangling about six inches above the surface of the crisp cool mountain water. shit. i’m flummoxed as to how to loosen the fly without spooking the fish i just know is residing below. i try a soft twitch of my rod, transmitting a soft and gentle energy via the line to the leader, through the hewn tippet knots, onward, ever so craftily to the tippet. the fly sveltely dances, as it precariously dangles from the web…. but does not dislodge. whoosh…. sweet baby jesus…. a take. the brookie has leapt from the depths like a submarine launched missile and taken the fly. once hooked, the darling was brought to hand rather easily, as he was shy of a foot by a few inches. i have never caught a trout like that again, but whenever i see a spider web spun close to the water, i try to recreate the –waldo

This shouldn’t count, but I was fishing a sulfur nymph, and got caught on bottom.  When I checked the hook after I got it unstuck, there was a natural sulfur nymph nicely threaded on the hook — Scott Reverse first field of address to reply

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I also caught the same fish that previously broke off but it wasn’t a trout but a pike.  I was fishing for trout though.  I got my fly back  when I caught the pike again. Next best one is my son caught a fish (cutthroat)  that was attached to a bait fisherman’s bobber (without the bait fisherman) that was swimming around the lake.  He used his fly rod to snag the bobber and bring the fish in. Eric

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – about a 15 inch pod Bow at Silver Creek He ate the exact same pattern I had broken off in his mouth about 5, no more than 10 minutes earlier … the fly was still there and a unique pattern, so I’m sure it was the same fish. I was very surprised that he was still feeding, let alone that he would take the same fly … he broke off after a decent fight, and I figured he was sulking somewhere.. Ditto, a small brown on the Onion just outside Sheboygan, WI.  Took a Pass Lake and broke me off under a bridge just as we started fishing. Coming back an hour and a half later, I got my fly back. Stranger still (though by no means all that rare….in some waters anyway) are the brookies that pounce from the sky.  DAMNED hard to get used to! Wolfgang

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Very detailed writing….ever consider writing for Penthouse?  :) The weirdest thing I’ve caught with a fly is,… well…, my brother. Double weird, considering he is a major league entaphobic.  "It kinda makes it worse when you keep slapping the damn thing like it is alive." Twice on the same lake I caught two bass on a bait with two treble hooks. And once, on the same lake, I caught a bass by it being "lipped" between the split ring of the lure and the lure’s diving lip. Scott

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – recent threads…. what is the strangest, perhaps the weirdest trout you have caught on the fly? one that always amuses me, and provides fond memories, is a brookie that was taken on up high on the spine of grandfather mountain, up high on boone’s fork… a few years ago… i approached the curvaceous body with eager anticipation. every nerve on edge, every move forsaken, every breath…. well, bated. the body of my desire being that of waterworn, finely sanded granite, obviously the design of a female god…. hence the sexuality….. and obviously, the desire to fondle the trout that lay at the artistic granitic turn in the clear pristine waters beneath the ever-present, prevalent growth of rhododendron. a few here at roff have fished this forlorn yet gorgeous pool…. i have taken them there…. i digress… the cast was adequate. the tippet turned over to present the fly. it stuck….. adhered in a spider’s web strung between some low-riding rhodo branches….  the fly dangling about six inches above the surface of the crisp cool mountain water. shit. i’m flummoxed as to how to loosen the fly without spooking the fish i just know is residing below. i try a soft twitch of my rod, transmitting a soft and gentle energy via the line to the leader, through the hewn tippet knots, onward, ever so craftily to the tippet. the fly sveltely dances, as it precariously dangles from the web…. but does not dislodge. whoosh…. sweet baby jesus…. a take. the brookie has leapt from the depths like a submarine launched missile and taken the fly. once hooked, the darling was brought to hand rather easily, as he was shy of a foot by a few inches. i have never caught a trout like that again, but whenever i see a spider web spun close to the water, i try to recreate the –waldo

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Almost caught…. I was fishing on the N.F. Clearwater below Kelly Forks, casting across a deep pool to a little riff, up comes a 6 inch rainbow. I started pulling the little guy toward me and it dove down about 10 feet away, all of the sudden this 6 inch rainbow was stripping line off my reel. I fought the fish for a few minutes and got it within sight. A bull trout had latched onto the side of the rainbow, I pulled the two fish up and tried to net them, as I went down with the net and the bull trout let go. I stood there with a puzzled look on my face explaining the story to my friend down the way. During out conversation the 6 inch trout was up at the surface swimming around, once again the bull trout came back and latched on. I fought the pair, this time almost netting the fish. Wish I had, the bull trout looked to be in the 25 inch range. I release the rainbow, he seemed to be okay despite the teeth marks in his side. I had read a similar story however, never thought I would experience it first hand. JRT – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – recent threads…. what is the strangest, perhaps the weirdest trout you have caught on the fly? one that always amuses me, and provides fond memories, is a brookie that was taken on up high on the spine of grandfather mountain, up high on boone’s fork… a few years ago… i approached the curvaceous body with eager anticipation. every nerve on edge, every move forsaken, every breath…. well, bated. the body of my desire being that of waterworn, finely sanded granite, obviously the design of a female god…. hence the sexuality….. and obviously, the desire to fondle the trout that lay at the artistic granitic turn in the clear pristine waters beneath the ever-present, prevalent growth of rhododendron. a few here at roff have fished this forlorn yet gorgeous pool…. i have taken them there…. i digress… the cast was adequate. the tippet turned over to present the fly. it stuck….. adhered in a spider’s web strung between some low-riding rhodo branches….  the fly dangling about six inches above the surface of the crisp cool mountain water. shit. i’m flummoxed as to how to loosen the fly without spooking the fish i just know is residing below. i try a soft twitch of my rod, transmitting a soft and gentle energy via the line to the leader, through the hewn tippet knots, onward, ever so craftily to the tippet. the fly sveltely dances, as it precariously dangles from the web…. but does not dislodge. whoosh…. sweet baby jesus…. a take. the brookie has leapt from the depths like a submarine launched missile and taken the fly. once hooked, the darling was brought to hand rather easily, as he was shy of a foot by a few inches. i have never caught a trout like that again, but whenever i see a spider web spun close to the water, i try to recreate the –waldo

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recent threads…. what is the strangest, perhaps the weirdest trout you have caught on the fly?

Walt, The weirdest trout I ever caught was a pike  =) To make short sentence, like the above, a bit longer story: I had noticed a feeding trout picking spent spinners on the neck of a riffle for about five minutes. This was in Savar Creek outside Umea in northern Sweden. After seing the trout rise for its fifth or sixth time I decided to give it a try. The trout looked as if it could be of some nicer size and I did everything I could to get it right. After a diagonal downstream cast with a reach mend I saw the fish rise and take my fly. I striked and felt a heavy weight at the end of my line. To my surprise the initial rush that so often comes when hooking trout was totally absent. I called out to my friend Fred that I had hooked a relly nice trout, but that it was acting a bit strange. Fred, who of course got interested, hurried over to watch the fight. I shouldn’t have called out to him……he makes me eat my words every now and then, and if I actually do hook a trout he usually makes remarks about a lb3 pike ( /Roger

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recent threads…. what is the strangest, perhaps the weirdest trout you have caught on the fly? one that always amuses me, and provides fond memories, is a brookie that was taken on up high on the spine of grandfather mountain, up high on boone’s fork… a few years ago… i approached the curvaceous body with eager anticipation. every nerve on edge, every move forsaken, every breath…. well, bated. the body of my desire being that of waterworn, finely sanded granite, obviously the design of a female god…. hence the sexuality….. and obviously, the desire to fondle the trout that lay at the artistic granitic turn in the clear pristine waters beneath the ever-present, prevalent growth of rhododendron. a few here at roff have fished this forlorn yet gorgeous pool…. i have taken them there…. i digress… the cast was adequate. the tippet turned over to present the fly. it stuck….. adhered in a spider’s web strung between some low-riding rhodo branches….  the fly dangling about six inches above the surface of the crisp cool mountain water. shit. i’m flummoxed as to how to loosen the fly without spooking the fish i just know is residing below. i try a soft twitch of my rod, transmitting a soft and gentle energy via the line to the leader, through the hewn tippet knots, onward, ever so craftily to the tippet. the fly sveltely dances, as it precariously dangles from the web…. but does not dislodge. whoosh…. sweet baby jesus…. a take. the brookie has leapt from the depths like a submarine launched missile and taken the fly. once hooked, the darling was brought to hand rather easily, as he was shy of a foot by a few inches. i have never caught a trout like that again, but whenever i see a spider web spun close to the water, i try to recreate the –waldo

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recent threads…. [slightly disturbing scenic snipped] i digress… the cast was adequate. the tippet turned over to present the fly. it stuck….. adhered in a spider’s web strung between some low-riding rhodo branches….  the fly dangling about six inches above the surface of the crisp cool mountain water.

A nymph under a Royal Wulff, a backwater edged with grassy tussocks, the flys just beyond one in the water one over it, a fish rose to the Wulff missed, landed on the tippett with the nymph dropper, flipped the nymph over its back and caught the tippett in the bend. This noose tightened on the fish behind the pecs and in front of the dorsal. My first and probably last lassooed fish – don’t do droppers much now. Steve (Look ma! no hands!)

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about a 15 inch pod Bow at Silver Creek He ate the exact same pattern I had broken off in his mouth about 5, no more than 10 minutes earlier … the fly was still there and a unique pattern, so I’m sure it was the same fish. I was very surprised that he was still feeding, let alone that he would take the same fly … he broke off after a decent fight, and I figured he was sulking somewhere.. —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

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about a 15 inch pod Bow at Silver Creek He ate the exact same pattern I had broken off in his mouth about 5, no more than 10 minutes earlier … the fly was still there and a unique pattern, so I’m sure it was the same fish. I was very surprised that he was still feeding, let alone that he would take the same fly … he broke off after a decent fight, and I figured he was sulking somewhere..

Ditto, a small brown on the Onion just outside Sheboygan, WI.  Took a Pass Lake and broke me off under a bridge just as we started fishing. Coming back an hour and a half later, I got my fly back. Stranger still (though by no means all that rare….in some waters anyway) are the brookies that pounce from the sky.  DAMNED hard to get used to! Wolfgang

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anyway) are the brookies that pounce from the sky.  DAMNED hard to get used to! Wolfgang

dang …not a trout …but was a fly trying to shoot a small hair Bass bug under a bush tight to the bank I missed and the bug hung up in the bush … I fiddled and fiddled trying to get it loose.  It was "weedless" and I moved it from limb to limb.  It was a good foot out of the water …. when a Bass came out and grabbed it <g not a big Bass but it made me shout and whoop ( and I hate it when guys shout when they hookup, very annoying   —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

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recent threads…. what is the strangest, perhaps the weirdest trout you have caught on the fly?

a few The Greediest – on Snowbird using the NC dry, dropper, I had a nice brookie on the dry and as I lift and reach for him, he wiggles off the dry, drops into the water only to be lifted back out by the dropper stuck firmly inside his jaw.  The greedy little bugger had taken the dropper on the way up to the dry. The Ugliest – A brown on Penns of about 14" whose lower jaw had been broken at the point early in its life and it had grown into an "X". The Best Jumper – A baby steelie of about 8" that I noticed jumping and taking mayflies on the wing.  I stood upstream and upwind of him, letting the dry bounce around in the wind – he leapt clean out of the water and took it. The Most Persistent – A Grand River brown of about 12" who chased, swirled and missed my mini-brown three times, covering the full width of the pool in his chase, only to be hooked on his fourth lunge. The Fastest – That JATO equipped steelie at Altmar. No sex in the pool though.   Damn southern guys get all the sexy pools.  :( Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Question:

<snipped Vittorio, Do you have any craft or needle point stores in your area?  I have found some extra small beads this way.  I just did a search with google.com and found these sites: http://www.netway.com/~flyshop/catalog/beads.htm http://www.kman.com/Catalog/Page87/Page87.htm http://www.mwflytying.com/new_stuff/ns_materials.html Hope this helps. bc. — Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. -Benjamin Franklin I don’t care who you are, you are not walking on the water while I’m fishing.

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Hi folks. I am looking for a source of tiny metal (NOT glass) beads to tie size 20-24 bead head flies.  I picked up a few BW-WD40 size 22 in Montana this summer and they seem to work around here too ! Most beads I found around are too large for such small hooks. However, the fly shop in MT must have found their beads somewhere. Any suggestion ? I posted this query to ROFFT, and someone there suggested to post it here too, as many knowledgeable anglers post here but not on ROFFT. Cheers, -Vittorio

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Hi folks. I am looking for a source of tiny metal (NOT glass) beads to tie size 20-24 bead head flies.  I picked up a few BW-WD40 size 22 in Montana this summer and they seem to work around here too ! Most beads I found around are too large for such small hooks. However, the fly shop in MT must have found their beads somewhere. Any suggestion ?

ones in several types (brass, lead, ect) or try Then there is always National Feathercraft in St. Louis but I won’t recommend em. <g — Wayne Knight Expert in creating tailing loops and windknots Otherwise Fishless in Kansas Before you buy.

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Although you specified not glass. There are indeed quite a number of metallised glass beads available in a fair range of sizes.  For very small flies I have not been able to find anything as good as these in metal.  They have a number of advantages I think, They do not tarnish, they are available in a range of metallic colours, and they certainly provide enough weight on small flies. Durability does not seem to be a problem, as though I broke a few when putting them on the hooks, none have so far broken under actual fishing conditions. They are available at a lot of places, and they are cheap compared to metal beads. TL MC — "Where fishing is concerned, most anglers are basically manic excessives" http://www.mikeconnor.de – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi folks. I am looking for a source of tiny metal (NOT glass) beads to tie size 20-24 bead head flies.  I picked up a few BW-WD40 size 22 in Montana this summer and they seem to work around here too ! Most beads I found around are too large for such small hooks. However, the fly shop in MT must have found their beads somewhere. Any suggestion ? I posted this query to ROFFT, and someone there suggested to post it here too, as many knowledgeable anglers post here but not on ROFFT. Cheers, -Vittorio

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Question:

I am planning to buy a decommissioned fishing boat in Holland. The vessel was built in the fifties, and probably has the original engine, a 150 HP Deutz SAM 528. I found nothing on the web concerning this engine (I am waiting for a reply from Deutz). Does anyone know, if parts are still available?

Deutz engines are/were very much used in our inland cargo vessels. Try some of our local shipyards in the Rotterdam area about parts and rebuilding of those engines. If you need some adresses send me an email and I will buy the dutch weekly cargo newspaper and give you a list of shipyards. regards, — Norbert Koster "Sundiver" Diamond aka Halcyon 27 Netherlands e-mail:   remove "remove_this" from email adress

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I am planning to buy a decommissioned fishing boat…has the original engine, a 150 HP Deutz SAM 528. …nothing on the web….Does anyone know, if parts are still available?

Try looking at   http://www.deutz.de/framee.htm   . There’s a gent who sometimes shows his face on this NG and on the TrawlerWorld List ….  Paul Kruse.  He has done extensive comparisons in the course of selecting engines for two boats that he and his son are building, and is quite knowledgeable.  I know that he has quite a bit of information on the Deutz.  Also, another fellow on the TWL (Peter Denton) is, I believe, in the final stages of a large trawler he’s building (in his back yard) in which he has installed a Deutz. Regards, John Gaquin m/v Brefnie Queen 32′ Luhrs

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Hmm….I wonder if it’s AIR COOLED!  All the Deutz diesels I ever encountered or ran were air cooled.  I had some driving 3 phase alternators in Iran that were V-16’s.  They ran faultlessly 24/7 and only came down when we changed the oil in 40C desert heat!…. Air cooled, with a fan in a shroud that could fly a jet, with no water jacket, they were VERY LOUD, indeed!  You had to wear hearing protection to get within 30 ft of one powered up and running 1500 RPM pulling a load….THAT loud. larry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am planning to buy a decommissioned fishing boat in Holland. The vessel was built in the fifties, and probably has the original engine, a 150 HP Deutz SAM 528. I found nothing on the web concerning this engine (I am waiting for a reply from Deutz). Does anyone know, if parts are still available? Thanks Peter Kiss Before you buy.

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I am planning to buy a decommissioned fishing boat in Holland. The vessel was built in the fifties, and probably has the original engine, a 150 HP Deutz SAM 528. I found nothing on the web concerning this engine (I am waiting for a reply from Deutz). Does anyone know, if parts are still available? Thanks Peter Kiss Before you buy.

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Question:

It looks like I’ll be in Switzerland next August. I was thinking that this might be a chance to try some European flyfishing. Anyone have suggestions about what would be good that time of year? It doesn’t have to be near Switzerland. This is a free trip, so I can afford to splurge on extra travel.

August is not exactly the best time for fishing here, but whatever, drop me a mail a little before the time and I will arrange something. Do it at least a month or so beforehand, and I will try and organise a license and everything for you if you would like to have a go here in Germany. I will try and send you some info on Switzerland as well. Your best bet for reasonable fishing is probably Austria. Tight lines ! MC

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It looks like I’ll be in Switzerland next August. I was thinking that this might be a chance to try some European flyfishing. Anyone have suggestions about what would be good that time of year? It doesn’t have to be near Switzerland. This is a free trip, so I can afford to splurge on extra travel. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

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Question:

After much debate, I finally went out and  purchased a new rod.  A Scott 5wt STS.  Why am I telling you all this?  Mostly because I need advice on which reel will be the best match for this rod.  Under $200.00.  The dealer I purchased the rod from has recomended a make I’ve never seem before T Tom (T Top?).  What do the sages (no pun inteneded) of

rec.outdoors.fishing.fly have to suggest? Thank you in advance! Ross

Ross, The dealer probably said "Teton". John Johnson Lilburn,GA

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You probably mean Teton!  I have seen that one reccomended here before.   A small Lamson or STH would also be good. -Burton On Mon, 13 Jan 1997, Ross Laurie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After much debate, I finally went out and  purchased a new rod.  A Scott  5wt STS.  Why am I telling you all this?  Mostly because I need advice on which reel will be the best match for this rod.  Under $200.00.  The dealer I purchased the rod from has recomended a make I’ve never seem before T Tom (T Top?).  What do the sages (no pun inteneded) of rec.outdoors.fishing.fly have to suggest? Thank you in advance! Ross

Response:

After much debate, I finally went out and  purchased a new rod.  A Scott 5wt STS.  Why am I telling you all this?  Mostly because I need advice on which reel will be the best match for this rod.  Under $200.00.  The dealer I purchased the rod from has recomended a make I’ve never seem before T Tom (T Top?).  What do the sages (no pun inteneded) of rec.outdoors.fishing.fly have to suggest? Thank you in advance! Ross

Hey Ross, This is just my 2 cents, but unless you are fishing for Salmon, Steelhead or any of the big saltwater species known for long runs, a reel is just a device to hold your line. Don’t waste your $$$ on an expensive reel to fish for trout. YMMV, Tom

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After much debate, I finally went out and  purchased a new rod.  A Scott 5wt STS.  Why am I telling you all this?  Mostly because I need advice on which reel will be the best match for this rod.  Under $200.00.  The dealer I purchased the rod from has recomended a make I’ve never seem before T Tom (T Top?).  What do the sages (no pun inteneded) of rec.outdoors.fishing.fly have to suggest? Thank you in advance! Ross

 Hello Ross, I believe the reel he is speaking of is a Teton.  They make a nice reel.  Although, if you are looking for a real clean setup I would look no further than the new Ross Colorado.  The size you want is about $100 and the spools are about $50.  This reel only has a pawl to keep it from free spooling.  No Drag!  But really, is a drag that important on anything under a 6-7 weight rod.  I like the exposed rim. If you feel that you need a drag, maybe the cimmaron by ross would be a good bet.  It is lighter than the Teton. Enjoy Life, Paul Johnson,

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I would go with the Ross reels. Either the Cimarron ($170) or the Gunnison ($210). The gunnison has a great disc drag. Very good reels, beautiful finish and they are light. I would go with the extra $10. Otherwise, the Cimarron is great. No disc drag, otherwise, just as good and pretty. kmustad – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

After much debate, I finally went out and  purchased a new rod.  A Scott  5wt STS.  Why am I telling you all this?  Mostly because I need advice on which reel will be the best match for this rod.  Under $200.00.  The dealer I purchased the rod from has recomended a make I’ve never seem before T Tom (T Top?).  What do the sages (no pun inteneded) of rec.outdoors.fishing.fly have to suggest? Thank you in advance! Ross

Response:

After much debate, I finally went out and  purchased a new rod.  A Scott  5wt STS.  Why am I telling you all this?  Mostly because I need advice on which reel will be the best match for this rod.  Under $200.00.  The dealer I purchased the rod from has recomended a make I’ve never seem before T Tom (T Top?).  What do the sages (no pun inteneded) of rec.outdoors.fishing.fly have to suggest? Thank you in advance! Ross

It getting to be a real bitc… when $200 is a mid priced reel.  The good news is IMHO, that it tough to beat the Cortland LTD’s, which you can have for around $100, and xtra spools for under $40.  Fine disc drags, easy to clean, graphite construction. made in UK (sorry George) USA made look to Tetons, and Lamsons.  There are undoubtedly others but these I own and use. jg

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It getting to be a real bitc… when $200 is a mid priced reel.  

Can you believe it? The good news is IMHO, that it tough to beat the Cortland LTD’s,

They are a good reel. I use the size 80 for my DT5F and WF6F lines and it works just fine. Not as smooth as others, but it’s always been reliable for me. Room for 100 yards of 20lb backing (give or take). Mine is 5(?) years old and has seen lots of streamside rocks and boat bottoms and is still kicking. I’ve never been particularly careful with that reel and it’s never given me a problem. I sort of like the fact that I can bang it around a bit and not fret and fuss. If I had one of the Abel reels with the "Coral" finish, I think I’d be afraid to bring it outside. look to Tetons, and Lamsons.

I would also look at the Orvis Battenkill. I know some on the group tend to quiver at the O-word, but I do very much like their reels. If I had the cash, you can bet I’d have a CFO on my trout sticks. My Battenkill 8/9 Disc has served me well over the past few years since I bought it. The SA System 2L reels are nice and more trout sized than their bigger cousins. I like their smooth drag system (at least the few I’ve fondled in the shops). Bob Petti Endwell, NY

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After much debate, I finally went out and  purchased a new rod.  A Scott  5wt STS.  Why am I telling you all this?  Mostly because I need advice on which reel will be the best match for this rod.  Under $200.00.  The dealer I purchased the rod from has recomended a make I’ve never seem before T Tom (T Top?).  What do the sages (no pun inteneded) of rec.outdoors.fishing.fly have to suggest? Thank you in advance! Ross

I definitely don’t qualify as a sage (no pun inferred) but, I am ecstatic about an LL Bean Streamligh that I paid around $60.00 for.  It has a pawl drag without much oomph to it, but other than that, its extremely ligh weight and has a great feel to it.  On top of that, LL Bean has as good a return policy as you will ever find.  I am using a 4/5 on a 9 ft sage LL 4 wt.  Good Luck! Randy

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Question:

We’ll be in southern Ontario at Sterling Lodge in late May.  Has anyone had any experience fly fishing for pike there?  If so, I’d appreciate any tips re: locations, flies, etc.  Thanks. — Keith Kriebel and Linda Wells

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We’ll be at Sterling Lodge in southern Ontario in late May.  Does anyone have experience fly fishing for pike there?  If so, I’d appreciate any information re: locations, flies, etc.  Thanks. — Keith Kriebel and Linda Wells

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Question:

Will be in Colorado Springs area the 2nd week of May. Some of the literature on the subject seems to suggest that the run-off will be in full swing at that time, and that it will be much more severe than I had assumed it to be. Is this gonna be a "wash-out"?

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Will be in Colorado Springs area the 2nd week of May. Some of the literature on the subject seems to suggest that the run-off will be in full swing at that time, and that it will be much more severe than I had assumed it to be. Is this gonna be a "wash-out"?

If the runoff is high…GO FISHING ! 1) Put some rocks in your pockets (to keep from being swept away). 2) Put on a big ugly bug with eyeballs and rubber legs. 3) Keep the BB sized shot close at hand. Use a lot. 4) Fish the banks. 5) Rid yourself of the mental block that all flyfishing is done in    clear waters. 6) Enjoy the river in its swollen glory.   7) Avoid tailwaters as the crowds and attitudes eventually will ruin it for you. TW

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If the runoff is high…GO FISHING ! 1) Put some rocks in your pockets (to keep from being swept away). 2) Put on a big ugly bug with eyeballs and rubber legs. 3) Keep the BB sized shot close at hand. Use a lot. 4) Fish the banks. 5) Rid yourself of the mental block that all flyfishing is done in   clear waters. 6) Enjoy the river in its swollen glory.   7) Avoid tailwaters as the crowds and attitudes eventually will ruin it for you. TW

Excellant advise T-bone!!  I like someone who can find a reason to fish no matter what.  As my grandfather used to say: "… which would you rather do… or go fishing?" Jack Wheeler

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o  What are the major rivers/other opportunities

You’ll be nearest the upper Colorado River in the Kremmling/Hot Springs area. o  How far are they from Winter Park

Roughly 30 or 45 minutes. o  What are the likely conditions

Runoff varies from year to year.  If the rest of the Winter’s mild, late June should be OK.  Check river conditions at: http://www.infosphere.com/rof/yp/RFAnglers/rfa.htm That’s Glenwood Springs, but it should give you some idea (there are other river flow sources on the Web). o  Who’s the leading outfitter/guide service

Sorry, I’m not familiar with outfitters in that area. o  What’s worth traveling to for an overnight

Again, check out the website above… M

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Question:

  Different flies are useful for different seasons. Does anybody know what flies are better during the different seasons.   I live in central Ontario and am just starting out.  Any help would be appreciated.                Thanks…Blayne

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ALL SEASON…U USE ANYTHING  U WANT..AND, I LL CATCH AND RELEASE MORE FISH….GOOD LUCK ANYWAY!!!  Different flies are useful for different seasons. Does anybody know   what flies are better during the different seasons.    I live in central Ontario and am just starting out.  Any help would be   appreciated.                 Thanks…Blayne

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 Different flies are useful for different seasons. Does anybody know what flies are better during the different seasons.  I live in central Ontario and am just starting out.  Any help would be appreciated.               Thanks…Blayne

Hi Blayne, I’m going to present an extremely short and generalized list on a large and complicated subject. Midges: All year Stoneflies: Spring Mayflies: Spring and Fall Caddisflies: Spring through Fall As the year progresses, fish progressively smaller flies. These are ideas that can and will be disputed, but as generalizations go, I think they each carry a kernel of truth. I hope this helps,   Alan.   Alan Barnard   Kiene’s Fly Shop   Sacramento, California   WWW Fly Tyer   http://www.ns.net/~barnard

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  Different flies are useful for different seasons. Does anybody know what flies are better during the different seasons.  I live in central Ontario and am just starting out.  Any help would be appreciated.               Thanks…Blayne Hi Blayne, I’m going to present an extremely short and generalized list on a large and complicated subject. Midges: All year Stoneflies: Spring Mayflies: Spring and Fall Caddisflies: Spring through Fall As the year progresses, fish progressively smaller flies. These are ideas that can and will be disputed, but as generalizations go, I think they each carry a kernel of truth. I hope this helps,   Alan.

Hi Alan, Best stated short course I’ve seen. I hope you don’t mind if I reference it from time to time. Good job. Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (new 96 catalog)

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Question:

I have heard that this creek can offer great fishing and is blue ribbon, but I have also heard that it is not worth looking at. CAn anyone shed some light on the creek for me, because I am planing to go up there this Sunday. Also if it is possible, maybe someone can direct me to a good place to start from in the morning, and give me an idea of what sort of flies I should bring along. I would really appreciate anything anyone has to say about this creek. TimFLYFISH

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I have heard that this creek can offer great fishing and is blue ribbon, but I have also heard that it is not worth looking at. CAn anyone shed some light on the creek for me, because I am planing to go up there this Sunday. Also if it is possible, maybe someone can direct me to a good place to start from in the morning, and give me an idea of what sort of flies I should bring along. I would really appreciate anything anyone has to say about this creek. TimFLYFISH

The lower portion, near and in Lake Solano is a put and take fishery, heavily stocked.  Good fishing, good luck avoiding the worm drowners.  The upper portion, near Montecello dam is a blue ribbon wild trout fishery.  I have seen 30"+ browns rise for a bat!  (how to tie that one   Very difficult fishing, and often rather dangerous.  Swift current and bouldery bottom.   Your next step could be 5′ straight down off an underwater ledge.  Fish are heavily fished and very wary.  Prepare to get skunked.  Some very good FFers I know can only claim 1 fish in 10 years of fishing there, but it was a 26" brown.  Above the Montecello dam is a warm water lake, and bellow the lake solano dam gets dried to nothing in dry summers, so fish are scarce. Good luck, and whatever you do, don’t embarass yourself by trying to claim there were no fish there. Lenny Bloksberg . .

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Tim, I too wish you luck, I went up to the Monticello Dam area a couple of weeks after the March Monsters blew through here and had a hard time recognizing the area. There were HUGE landslides. Basically, there was no access to a badly overfished area. I tried clambering over new stream channels, the access bridge was GONE and so were the trails to the the base of the dam. I haven’t been back, I’ll look again after the Power Baiters are gone. John E.

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]I have heard that this creek can offer great fishing and is blue ribbon, ]but I have also heard that it is not worth looking at. CAn anyone shed ]some light on the creek for me, because I am planing to go up there this ]Sunday. Also if it is possible, maybe someone can direct me to a good ]place to start from in the morning, and give me an idea of what sort of ]flies I should bring along. I would really appreciate anything anyone has ]to say about this creek. ]TimFLYFISH Tim, I believe the better flyfishing at Putah is from Nov-March, because that’s when the flows are lower, and they restrict fishing in the upper section to artificials, single barbless hook, C&R.  This time of year, you’re battling bait dunkers and the higher flows. Effective patterns I’ve heard of (in the winter) include PT nymphs or blue wing olive nymphs, size 18-22. A good friend (and reliable source) told me that he went in February or March, and that they had had some kind of disastorous mudslide in the upper section, just above the Highway 128 bridge.  He said you couldn’t even see some of the boulders in the river, because they were covered with a mud sludge.  They had construction crews with heavy equipment out there, trying to smooth the land where the slide had occurred. I hope it’s recovered somewhat since then.  Please keep us posted on how you did and the river conditions.  Thanks, Bill Uyeki

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I have heard that this creek can offer great fishing and is blue ribbon, but I have also heard that it is not worth looking at. CAn anyone shed some light on the creek for me, because I am planing to go up there this Sunday. Also if it is possible, maybe someone can direct me to a good place to start from in the morning, and give me an idea of what sort of flies I should bring along. I would really appreciate anything anyone has to say about this creek. TimFLYFISH

I ‘ve fished Putah for almost 20 years and its really gone downhill in the last 10 or so.  Erratic water flows, streamside erosion, overfishing have taken their toll.  Seams to me that there could be the potential for a blue ribbon fishery but it clearly ain’t one now. Garrick

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From what I have heard, I am glad that I didn’t end up going. A late night stoped the morning trip. I probably won’t on going there again if what you have said is true. Thank you for the info.

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Well 6/7/95, Mammoth fishing is still slow.  Crowley is near dead. 17-20" browns and even smaller rainbows on olive buggers with flash. I say forget Mammoth for now.  Air Temps in the 50S.  Still needs to warm up and water needs to clear.

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Try fishing at Parking Lot #3; good pocket water, as well as large surface water.

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Try fishing at Parking Lot #3; good pocket water, as well as large surface water.

I have seen the name Putah Creek in more than one location. Where is this one? Thanks, Michael Paine

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I have seen the name Putah Creek in more than one location. Where is this one? Thanks, Michael Paine

It’s between the Bay Area and Sacramento.  Below Lake Berryessa.                  /                                                           John Woodling                 /                                                           Sacramento, CA                /                   "The lure of fishing is that it is the pursuit of that which is elusive, yet attainable……an endless series of occasions for hope"

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Question:

I have a baitcasting technique question. I have been a fly fisherman for some time.  I recently added spinning gear and lakes to my fishing portfolio and have REALLY enjoyed it! This xmas I moved to a baitcasting reel (Inexpensive Abu Garcia reel available via Cabelas), and a nice IM7 Cabelas baitcasting rod. I have no baitcasting fishermen friends.  So, I am on my own. I read the instructions and started practicing casting.  Backlash city. All the time.  One cast — then 30 minutes of fusing — then cutting of line and one more cast…and so on. I want to get this, but think I must be misinterpreting something. The instructions with my reel tell me to adjust the manual brake and then the magnetic brake so the lure will move about 10 inches when I jiggle the rod.  Ok…I can do that. But, the question is….."what is the role of your thumb when you are casting.  That is, do you use your thumb to lightly put pressure on the reel/line while you are casting?  Or, do you take your thumb completely away while the lure is in the air and only use your thumb to suddenly brake when the cast hits water or whatever?  Are these mechanical brakes supposed to do the job themselves?  Or, am I to actively use my thumb the hole time the cast in in progress? HELP I know this is a stupid question, but I have no baitcasting gurus around here who can help me.  My only advice so far from my other fishing buddies is to go back to my spinning gear.

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Quoting johng from a message in rec.outdoors.fishing  jo Path:  jonews1.delphi.com!news.delphi.com!news2.near.net!howland.reston.ans.net!e  jo Organization: Duke’s Fuqua School of Business  jo Lines: 28  jo NNTP-Posting-Host: piscator.fsb.duke.edu  jo X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.92.3  jo I read the instructions and started practicing casting.  Backlash city.  jo All the time.  One cast — then 30 minutes of fusing — then cutting of  jo line and one more cast…and so on. Start out with easy lob type casts, until you get your hand to eye coordination down pat. The thumb is used primarily when you see the lure touch down, at this point the reel is still spinning, it doesn’t know that the lure isn’t still going.  jo I want to get this, but think I must be misinterpreting something.  jo The instructions with my reel tell me to adjust the manual brake and  jo then the magnetic brake so the lure will move about 10 inches when I  jo jiggle the rod.  Ok…I can do that. While you are learning I would suggest you turn the magnets all the way up and tighten the manual brake a little more, until you get used to it. Also don’t cast INTO the wind, that will cause problems every time. You may also want to cast a heavier lure while you are learning, it helps.  jo But, the question is….."what is the role of your thumb when you  jo are casting.  That is, do you use your thumb to lightly put pressure on  jo the reel/line while you are casting?  Or, do you take your thumb  jocompletely away while the lure is in the air and only use your thumb  joto suddenly brake when the cast hits water or whatever? Its really a little of both, as you gain experience you will learn to "feather" your cast with your thumb, and then stop the reel when the lure reaches the target.  jo Are these  jomechanical brakes supposed to do the job themselves?  Or, am I to  joactively use my thumb the hole time the cast in in progress? See above.  jo HELP I know this is a stupid question, but I have no baitcasting  jogurus around here who can help me.  My only advice so far from my  joother fishing buddies is to go back to my spinning gear. Also if its cold out the line will stiffen up and cause some problems. Remember to keep the handles up and make easy casts to start with. Once you get used to it you’ll wonder why you didn’t do it a long time ago…<G BTW: What model reel? Some cheapies will never cast well. Its not a stupid question, at all, its just a learning process. Good luck. Greg….

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I find that if you cast as far as you can then strip out a small amount of line add a small strip of tape <not very sticky tape can keep your backlashes from going deep down into the spool and causing you a lot of problems. The tape will come off if you happen on that BIG DAWG! and he pulls out the line past the tape.   but the best thing to do is practice practice practice and when you see that jig hit the water put the brakes on .

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For years I’ve done this.  hold the rod straight out in front of you. tighten the center nob on the LEFT hand side of the real.  This is not the magnetic anti- backlash on the Right hand side of the reel.  Hit the free spool button or thumbbar release, as if you were getting ready to cast.  Turn the LEFT hand nob Away from you (loosen) just until the weight on the end of your line starts dropping.  try casting.  If you have a magnetic anti-backlash on the right hand side, you may then loosen the LEFT hand nob a little more and compensate as needed with the magnetic adjustment.  this works fine on reels without a mag helper, but you will be able to achieve more distance by fine tuning if you have a mag adjustment.  Do this whenever you switch to a different weight. Andy S.

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: I have a baitcasting technique question. : I read the instructions and started practicing casting.  Backlash city. : All the time.  One cast — then 30 minutes of fusing — then cutting of : line and one more cast…and so on. Well, if it’s any comfort that’s how I spent my first day of practice. The trick on the thumb is to control the speed of the reel given a particular line, the rigging weight, and the wind. My advice: keep gentle pressure at all times and try and slow the cast gradually so that your lure/bait drops majestically where you want it to go. It’ll beome second nature, I promise. Then, once it is second nature, you’ll never have a backlash again. What you get then are called professional overcasts. <g Here’s a tip. Reel off enough line to cover the distance you intend to be casting. Put a strip of tape across the line on the reel at that point. Any backlash will at least stop at the tape.

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I agree with practicing at home, however, when I first picked up a baitcaster, I was told that if you could cast a 1/4 oz. plug without overrun and with accuracy, you have won half of the battle.  Of course, your rod would have to be able to throw a 1/4 oz. plug (ie: be rated for it).  I have found that once I learned this, I not only learned the technique, but gained confidence as well.  I was even throwing rooster tails with my reels and catching fish.   One more thing, be sure to keep your spool control as tight as you can when first practicing.  I also think that casting the 1/4 oz. plug let me loosen the spool more after while and I was able to throw farther and with reasonable accuracy.  But this was only after a few weeks of practice.  Try it.  Just my $0.02. Just be patient and practice at home, not on the water. I suggest a lure weight of at least 1/2 ounce for starters with a rod designed for lures from 1/4 – 3/4 ounces.  The heavier the lure the easier it is to cast without backlash. I would also suggest a line rated at no more than 12 pound test, larger line backlashes easier.  Good luck and trust me, the practice is well worth it.

– Andrew R. Gherna                 |   Eastern Illinois University      |  "Keep them mowing blades sharp"

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