Question:

"the jettys can be a blast. I did catch a striper and 2 blues on deceivers this fall (so far) on a nearby jetty ." of course, this was a jetty nearby my home … I live in Monmouth County which is the the northern end of the Jersey coast. Avalon is down at the southern end. Rob — so much fishing, so little time — –please remuv the ‘NOWAY2it’ from my email addy to email me–

Response:

Rob, Thanks for the info.  I think I’ll bring my 10×10 and my decievers and sea-bait flies and see if the stripers or blues are around down south.   Should I bring my waders?  My guess is yes. Thanks Chas – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "the jettys can be a blast. I did catch a striper and 2 blues on deceivers this fall (so far) on a nearby jetty ." of course, this was a jetty nearby my home … I live in Monmouth County which is the the northern end of the Jersey coast. Avalon is down at the southern end. Rob — so much fishing, so little time — –please remuv the ‘NOWAY2it’ from my email addy to email me–

Response:

Chas, If you can fit them, I would bring waders.  The jetties in NJ are 2 types: rough rock jetties and "finished" jetties, ie. filled in with a lot of concrete. I’m not sure about the Avalon jetty having never been there, but as you might suspect another aspect of fishing the salt is wading out on bars to get at better parts of the channel, better casts due to wind, better drifts due to tides etc. Another point on jetties: if you saw my post about jetty jumping earlier, I would *definitely* recommend having korkers or studded boots for jetties.  Even if it’s a "finished" jetty, if you actually have to land a fish, it will require you climbing down the rocks.  Water temps will be in the 50’s by then, which is perfect. Up until this week, they were in the low 60’s. On bait fish, we have peanut bunker, spearing, bay anchovies all hanging around now, so a variety of deceivers and clousers  should be the ticket. Hope you do well, Rob — so much fishing, so little time — –please remuv the ‘NOWAY2it’ from my email addy to email me–

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I will be in Avalon NJ for a wedding November 9th.  We arrive the 7th and leave on the 11th.  We’ll be staying at a friend’s house on the beach.  I’m wondering if I should be bringing any tackle for fishing either from the beach, or in some inland waterway that’s nearby.  I’d probably not get more than a day’s fishing in, more likely a couple hours. What might I find, and should I be trying. Thanks Chas

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Chas, I’m not too up on Avalon specifically, but in general this is prime time for surf fishing in NJ. According to Jim Freda in Fishing the NJ coast,  if you drive to the north point of Avalon you’ll come to Townsends Inlet. You can fish the eighth street jetty and 2 smaller groins (jettys).  Apparently there is a sand bar that forms from this point out into the inlet and you can work the various structures, either the jettys or from the bar into the adjacent channel. When fish are around (which they should be), working the jettys can be a blast. I did catch a striper and 2 blues on deceivers this fall (so far) on a nearby jetty . Prime target for this time of year are stripers, and there may be some slammer blues around as well.  Many live line eels for the stripers, but if you go onto stripersurf.com or njstriper.com (or even reel-time.com) you may be able to get some specifics on flyfishing the area.  Both sites have a flyfishing message board. Of course, if you ask at local tackle shops, you may find that Tautog (blackfish) are around. These are fished strictly with bait, specifically green crabs, and are little bulldogs when caught.  It’s tough fishing for them as they’re always around structure, have very hard teeth with which they can suck a crab off a hook in a split second, but are very good eating…14" minimum size Enjoy, Rob — so much fishing, so little time — –please remuv the ‘NOWAY2it’ from my email addy to email me–

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Question:

BTW- Moby, I’ve killfiled you based on all your moans and groans. Have a great life tho!

I seem to have developed a cult following….  Must be my irresistable charm and stuff. Does this mean I get a percentage of the gross sales? Moby. The dry wit of ages….

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I seem to have developed a cult following….  Must be my irresistable charm and stuff. If you had "irresistable charm and stuff" then "cult following" would be spelt slightly differently… Alvey

You broke me up with that one.

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BTW- Moby, I’ve killfiled you based on all your moans and groans. Have a great life tho!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For those ppl to whom I have been an evil bitch…. I am sorry.   There is no excuse for the way I ripped into you.  No matter how much I disagreed with your posts, I should not have ’spoken’ to you in that manner. I suspect that those who should receive this apology have added me to their killfile, but no matter, I will have to rely upon word of mouth. I certainly don’t think this is the last time I will have to apologise to somebody for being ‘evil’ but hey…where’s the fun in 100% manners 100% of the time?

Response:

I certainly don’t think this is the last time I will have to apologise to somebody for being ‘evil’ but hey…where’s the fun in 100% manners 100%

of the time? Yeah… just ask some of the Aussie cricket team. : ) Nick

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For those ppl to whom I have been an evil bitch…. I am sorry.   There is no excuse for the way I ripped into you.  No matter how much I disagreed with your posts, I should not have ’spoken’ to you in that manner. I suspect that those who should receive this apology have added me to their killfile, but no matter, I will have to rely upon word of mouth. I certainly don’t think this is the last time I will have to apologise to somebody for being ‘evil’ but hey…where’s the fun in 100% manners 100% of the time? The ability to apologise is a rare (and treasured) thing in newsgroups. Good onya. Now all you need is a catchy sig and you’ll be away… Alvey In Brisbane, unable to think of a catch sig right at this point in time.

It’s certainly enough for me to remove a poster from the kill-file It’s probably the one thing that separates the decent ng members from the riff-raff: the ability to apologise and admit mistakes. Although I have nfi which particular one you’re apologising for. Moby.

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For those ppl to whom I have been an evil bitch…. I am sorry.   There is no excuse for the way I ripped into you.  No matter how much I disagreed with your posts, I should not have ’spoken’ to you in that manner. I suspect that those who should receive this apology have added me to their killfile, but no matter, I will have to rely upon word of mouth. I certainly don’t think this is the last time I will have to apologise to somebody for being ‘evil’ but hey…where’s the fun in 100% manners 100% of the time?

Apologise to people in this group ?  You are not anevil bitch but a stupid one

Response:

For those ppl to whom I have been an evil bitch…. I am sorry.   There is no excuse for the way I ripped into you.  No matter how much I disagreed with your posts, I should not have ’spoken’ to you in that manner. I suspect that those who should receive this apology have added me to their killfile, but no matter, I will have to rely upon word of mouth. I certainly don’t think this is the last time I will have to apologise to somebody for being ‘evil’ but hey…where’s the fun in 100% manners 100% of the time?

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For those ppl to whom I have been an evil bitch…. I am sorry.   There is no excuse for the way I ripped into you.  No matter how much I disagreed with your posts, I should not have ’spoken’ to you in that manner. I suspect that those who should receive this apology have added me to their killfile, but no matter, I will have to rely upon word of mouth. I certainly don’t think this is the last time I will have to apologise to somebody for being ‘evil’ but hey…where’s the fun in 100% manners 100% of the time?

The ability to apologise is a rare (and treasured) thing in newsgroups. Good onya. Now all you need is a catchy sig and you’ll be away… Alvey In Brisbane, unable to think of a catch sig right at this point in time.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, all summer I have laughed at the Aussies as they lost relentlessly to the Kiwis, whom I rated as third rate. Boy, what I fool I look now. The Kiwis have just beaten world class cricketers England in a series somewhere. While the Aussies seemed to be addicted to losing to the Kiwis the Poms never lay down and nor did the easybeat South Africans. Now that New Zealand have tri-dicked the Aussies and dished up good serves to the Protias and won a series, albeit at home, to a classy side like the pom, I have to confess that New Zealand seems to have found 11 blokes with what it takes to play the game well. Well done to them, let’s hope it catches on and we learn to beat the Aussies at real sports, like fly fishing. – - – http://www.crackersport.com

I knew the title was too good to be true. You got me Oswald! Rourkster

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Well, all summer I have laughed at the Aussies as they lost relentlessly to the Kiwis, whom I rated as third rate. Boy, what I fool I look now. The Kiwis have just beaten world class cricketers England in a series somewhere. While the Aussies seemed to be addicted to losing to the Kiwis the Poms never lay down and nor did the easybeat South Africans. Now that New Zealand have tri-dicked the Aussies and dished up good serves to the Protias and won a series, albeit at home, to a classy side like the pom, I have to confess that New Zealand seems to have found 11 blokes with what it takes to play the game well. Well done to them, let’s hope it catches on and we learn to beat the Aussies at real sports, like fly fishing. – - – http://www.crackersport.com

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Question:

I love how predictably I can stir up this hornet’s nest anytime I please. I simply don’t understand why you don’t ignore my taunts. Try it once, and reclaim your newsgroup. — Citizen Fisherman one can’t be ostracized from a vacuum…

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Dick Head said: << I love how predictably I can stir up this hornet’s nest anytime I please. I That’s pretty obvious. What I don’t understand is why you would want to stir things up. Are you a jerk or what?

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Dick Head said: << I love how predictably I can stir up this hornet’s nest anytime I please. I That’s pretty obvious. What I don’t understand is why you would want to stir things up. Are you a jerk or what?

The former.   What I don’t understand is how consistently achieving the predictable holds much fascination at all, much less being deserving of self-congratulation. Joe F.

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Yup, got the accounts mixed….. john "

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I love how predictably I can stir up this hornet’s nest anytime I please. I simply don’t understand why you don’t ignore my taunts. Try it once, and reclaim your newsgroup.

Yeah man ! Aren’t you a cool guy ! Just got back from a whitefish journey. First thing this morning, though, caught (and released) 2 *gorgeous* browns 16" and 18". The average whitefish has gotten huge [around 3 pounds]. I have the fillets of 8 of them brining. The trout would have been excellent smoked, but I was after whitefish. There was a brutal carnage of these fish. In the morning we saw the ‘first guard’ of several pods of around 20 fish were in the creek. Then the people arrived, a church group and more. Thye just got in the water with them. They threw rocks at them and laughed. This went on all day. When I left I could not find any fish in the creek except a dead one wedged in a rock. It was very sad to me. Three men talked with me while I caught a nice one in the main river. When they saw it one asked if it was a rainbow trout. They went up in the creek and one of them came back with a whitefish he had caught with his hands. He asked me if he could keep it and I told him that, if he had a license, he’d probably be OK. He did not. A little while later I saw him again. He asked where he could catch a salmon. I told him, maybe Reudi. He asked where he could catch a salmon in Denver. I told him I did not know. About an hour later I saw them with some other people and they had filled a kitchen sized trash bag with fish they caught, I think by throwing rocks at them. Wierd carnage. One lady took the roe from all of my fish to feed her bloodhound. I though that was pretty cool. I mean, I do not eat whitefish roe. I saw literally buckets, shop buckets, full of fish hauled out. It did not bother me. At least the guys that obviously had smoke houses ready to accept the fish. It was the people killing them for no reason that really bugged me and the people that obviously would throw them away if they did keep them. These whitefish were very easy to hook but hard to catch. They’d get into the strong current and even with the 6 weight and 4X, you had no choice but to get running downstream. Almost always they’d ball up the tackle. Frieght trains. While you could feel the head shake that made you pretty certain it was a whitefish, you really did not know if it was a large brown or a whitefish until you could see it. This made for some exciting fishing. One guy told me that if I steamed them and removed the meat I could mix it with eggs and cracker crumbs and spices and fry it in a mock crab cake or make tacos with the meat that it was excellent. He said you can also freeze the steamed meat and it would keep. All in all, very good ideas. In the afternoon we moved down and I hooked 6 fish, landed 3 [2 browns and a bow] all were around 16. The bow was very fat in the shoulders and deep bodied, at least 5 inches. An extremely nice fish. None of them faught a fraction as hard as any of the whitefish. I had a fish get off that was the proverbial ‘I thought it was a snag’. I really did think it was a snag, and I pulled *hard* when it just started moving away slowly. The hook straightened, and I lost him. It was a TMC 2457. My minds eye tells me it was a brown. Five pounds. At least. Your pal, — TBone Walker The Halfordian Golfer

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Just got back from a whitefish journey. First thing this morning, though, caught (and released) 2 *gorgeous* browns 16" and 18". The average whitefish has gotten huge [around 3 pounds]. I have the fillets of 8 of them brining. The trout would have been excellent smoked, but I was after whitefish.

Thanks for the report.  That rock throwing etc. on the whitefish was too weird. Where was this? I’ve never come across anything like that. Willi

Response:

There was a brutal carnage of these fish. In the morning we saw the ‘first guard’ of several pods of around 20 fish were in the creek. Then the people arrived, a church group and more. Thye just got in the water with them. They threw rocks at them and laughed. This went on all day.

???? a church group? that is wierd…. too damn weird. –waldo

Response:

Just got back from a whitefish journey. First thing this morning, though, caught (and released) 2 *gorgeous* browns 16" and 18". The average whitefish has gotten huge [around 3 pounds]. I have the fillets of 8 of them brining. The trout would have been excellent smoked, but I was after whitefish.

Yeah, that’s what I tell the guys too, heh heh. While you could feel the head shake that made you pretty certain it was a whitefish, you really did not know if it was a large brown or a whitefish until you could see it. This made for some exciting fishing.

I wish I could get over that bummer when I find out it’s *not* a large brown

Response:

Then the people arrived, a church group and more. Thye just got in the water with them. They threw rocks at them and laughed. This went on all day.

Throwing rocks at a baptism seems like an unconventional way to welcome a new convert. To each his own, I guess. –Steve

Response:

There was a brutal carnage of these fish. In the morning we saw the ‘first guard’ of several pods of around 20 fish were in the creek. Then the people arrived, a church group and more. Thye just got in the water with them. They threw rocks at them and laughed. This went on all day. ???? a church group? that is wierd…. too damn weird.

They probably caught two, tried to feed multitudes, and, failing that, decided to stone the rest. JR

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…..I wish I could get over that bummer when I find out it’s *not* a large brown

You should.  You would be doing yourself a favor.  I caught as many whitefish as trout on a trip to southwest Montana some years ago and enjoyed them every bit as much.  Whitefish are eager to take a fly, put up as good a fight as trout, are attractive in their own right, and are quite tasty.  While I understand the appeal of targeting a particular species on a given outing, I am never bothered by the serendipitous catch of another, and particularly so when it introduces me to a species with a lot of good characteristics (from an angler’s point of view) and to which I had never given any consideration.  Hell, I’d go back just to stupid old trout.      :( Wolfgang chubs now……damn, what i wouldn’t give to tie into a mess of nice four inch chubs!

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Throwing rocks at a baptism seems like an unconventional way to welcome a new convert. To each his own, I guess.

Sounds to me like there’s a distressing shortage of sinners in that crowd. Wolfgang don’t s’pose i’d fit in real good.      :(

Response:

Just got back from a whitefish journey. First thing this morning, though, caught (and released) 2 *gorgeous* browns 16" and 18". The average whitefish has gotten huge [around 3 pounds]. I have the fillets of 8 of them brining. The trout would have been excellent smoked, but I was after whitefish. Thanks for the report.  That rock throwing etc. on the whitefish was too weird. Where was this? I’ve never come across anything like that.

Let’s just say it was at an interstate rest area. I’ll tell you exactly where in email or when I see you. You’ve probably already figured it out from the clues. There was a pedestrian bridge over the creek and a colorful sign depicting the life cycle of the Whitefish. I think it was titled "A Colorado Native". In the morning a delightful couple excitedly pointed out the fish to us. It’s too bad that travelers after about 2 in the afternoon would have seen no fish, or just the few dead ones. I don’t think the church group was all that bad. It was just teenage girls and boys with their shoes off…for the hour or so break from the bus journey they were on. The guys were chasing and teasing the girls with the whitefish, just like you and I would have done. That kind of thing. Fairly harmless. I think that as a reasonable ‘pattern of positive behavior’ there’s an ethical compromise. Once fish make the spawning tributary they should be proected. It takes a fair amount of skill to catch them in the main river. That would enforce some degree of ‘fair chase’ to the equation. You’d have to at least care enough about what you’re doing to pick up a license and a rod and reel and to fish for them. Not just a big rock. I was thinking….I bet the people that left with a trash bag full probably thought we were wasting our time, fishing for them with nymphs, I mean…it took a while to get just a few with the fly rod…they got 50 in 10 minutes by throwing them up on the rocks with their hands. I feel fairly strongly that the fish in the creek should be enjoyed by the people stopping in at the rest area. It’s a marvel of nature and very impressive. Just the education that the Rainbow trout is not native to Colorado but the Whitefish are, would probably be interesting to thinking people that would probably otherwise never know. I’m formatting the words to the letter to the CDOW and local papers in my head as we speak. I’m thinking more on these human/wildlife ‘patterns’ as regarding reccomendations and paradigms. Your pal, — TBone Walker The Halfordian Golfer

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"TBone" .    That would enforce some degree of ‘fair chase’ to the equation. You’d have to at least care enough about what you’re doing to pick up a license and a rod and reel and to fish for them.

I hate to say it……but even a few minor – ENFORCED – regulations have an enormous result in the amount of streamside litter, diminished negative behavior and overall improvement that it is time to consider such things for all streams. You eliminate a whole class of people. john

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..and you get my first <SPLORK john

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???? a church group? that is wierd…. too damn weird. –waldo

It would seem like it until you’ve had some experience with church groups and the outdoors.  They should restrict themselves to city parks and playgrounds, where they know what’s happening.  On what used to be my favorite part of my favorite river, they’ve proven themselves to be almost as obnoxious as the beer for breakfast bunch and rather more dangerous.  Mostly, thank (heaven?) to themselves, but it’s painful to watch and to try to give them a clue when they get really odd and the kids are likely to be dumped, drown, get hypothermia or any combination of the former.  While some of them don’t believe Darwin was correct, they sometimes seem intent on proving his theories. — rbc:  vixen    Fairly harmless remove invalid or hit reply to email. Though I’m very slow to respond. http://www.visi.com/~cyli

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They probably caught two, tried to feed multitudes, and, failing that, decided to stone the rest. JR

…god, now that’s funny!!! jeff (brimstone, anyone?)

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They probably caught two, tried to feed multitudes, and, failing that, decided to stone the rest. JR …god, now that’s funny!!! jeff (brimstone, anyone?)

Agreed. ROFLOL. — TBone Walker The Halfordian Golfer

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Question:

That

Question:

Hi, check my site. It is in its infancy but I hope to add links to other useful sites. Please let me know which sites you find that are of help to you.     Hi All…..         Does anyone know where i can find some patterns and tips on the net…… Thanks

– Vic Brockett http://home.earthlink.net/~vicbrockett

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Try out the following links. http://killroys.com/patterns/patterns.htm http://www.flyline.com/flys/patrns.htm http://globalflyfisher.com/patterns/list.html#Stream http://www.algonet.se/~sjostran/English/10018.htm http://www.telusplanet.net/public/cnangler/html/roman.htm http://www.traflyfish.com/tying/index.htm http://www.virtualflybox.com/pattern_list.shtml Also, some help links are listed bellow. http://www.buckeyeflyfishers.com/fly_frame.htm http://www.masterfx.com/Flysnest/Class.htm Vern – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –    Hi All…..        Does anyone know where i can find some patterns and tips on the net…… Thanks

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check my site. It is in its infancy but I hope to add links to other useful sites. Please let me know which sites you find that are of help to you. http://home.earthlink.net/~vicbrockett

The words on your images are hard to read.  Try a bigger font.  Also, what do you do after palmering your hackle to the rear?  The wire alone is enough to hold it in place? Mu

Response:

check my site. It is in its infancy but I hope to add links to other useful sites. Please let me know which sites you find that are of help to you. http://home.earthlink.net/~vicbrockett The words on your images are hard to read.  Try a bigger font.  Also, what do you do after palmering your hackle to the rear?  The wire alone is enough to hold it in place?

He might want to point out that the ribbing wire should be counter-wound over the palmered hackle…

Response:

He might want to point out that the ribbing wire should be counter-wound over the palmered hackle…

I guess it’s implied in his specific instruction to wind the hackle clockwise from front to back (I assume as viewed from the head down the length of the fly).  Winding the wire as usual (clockwise) from rear to front would mean it’s counterwound around the hackle.  What I don;t understand is whether or not the wire alone provides a secure anchor for the hackle once it reaches the rear of the fly.  I ordinarily counterwind the ribbing anyway, but am usually winding all materials from rear to front. Mu

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Thanks Mu, I will try again with the fonts. Yes the wire ribbing holds the palmered hackle just fine. I usually wrap the wire once before spiraling forward. I use the same technique with elk hair caddis and all other flies that have palmered hackle. check my site. It is in its infancy but I hope to add links to other useful sites. Please let me know which sites you find that are of help to you. http://home.earthlink.net/~vicbrockett The words on your images are hard to read.  Try a bigger font.  Also, what do you do after palmering your hackle to the rear?  The wire alone is enough to hold it in place? Mu

– Vic Brockett http://home.earthlink.net/~vicbrockett

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Hi Mu, Sorry for the second note but you have it exactly right. When I was tying the hackle in the back by the tip and trying to counterwrap the wire, I had trouble tying off the wire because it was being wrapped counter clockwise. I find the new way much easier and more durable. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – He might want to point out that the ribbing wire should be counter-wound over the palmered hackle… I guess it’s implied in his specific instruction to wind the hackle clockwise from front to back (I assume as viewed from the head down the length of the fly).  Winding the wire as usual (clockwise) from rear to front would mean it’s counterwound around the hackle.  What I don;t understand is whether or not the wire alone provides a secure anchor for the hackle once it reaches the rear of the fly.  I ordinarily counterwind the ribbing anyway, but am usually winding all materials from rear to front. Mu

– Vic Brockett http://home.earthlink.net/~vicbrockett

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Hi Guys, Here are a few links to get you started with all sorts of fly fishing and tying stuff. Pete Neat Fly Fishing Web Sites http://www.smallstreams.com/Bookmarks.html http://dalby.tscnet.com/vcclient/index.html http://roff.org http://www.ezflyfish.com http://home.global.co.za/~abert/ http://www.steelheader.net/ http://www.benwolenflies.com/ http://www.momentoffame.com/category.html?id=23 http://www.topozone.com http://www.clemenstackle.com/ http://www.incredibleproductsmall.com/rodeodrive/suite1584275/product… http://www.fishaholic.org http://flyfishing.about.com/sports/fishhunt/flyfishing/ http://www.fishhoo.com/ http://www.anglersworkshop.com/ http://www.bobmarriotts.com/ http://www.btsflyfishing.com/ http://www.buckeyeflyfishers.com/education_frame.htm http://www.cabelas.com/ http://www.masterfx.com/Flysnest/Generalfly.htm http://listings.ebay.com/aw/glistings/list/category1492/index.html http://www.fishticker.com/ http://www.flyanglersonline.com/ http://www.davisbrown.com/alpha.htm http://www.yong-special.com/ http://www.kman.com/ http://www.flyshop.com/bench/index-flies.cfm?ID=1727&flyname=McVay%27s%2 http://www.flyfish.com/cgibin/bin/ldisplay.cgi?forsale http://members.aol.com/azflytyer/ http://globalflyfisher.com/ http://www.agt.net/public/flytying/index.html http://www.mailordercentral.com/hookhack/departments.asp http://www.killroys.com/ http://www.motherlodefly.com/index.html http://www.angelfire.com/wa/salmonid/ http://www.flyshop.com/centers/midwest/09-99carp/ http://www.mwflytyer.com/ http://www.flyshop.com/index.cfm http://members.mint.net/raske/swaps/bucktail/lil_bucktails.html http://www.flyshop.com/Marketplace/index.cfm?content=auction&page=ind… 6854&action=details&fullblown=true http://www.virtualflybox.com/

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     Hi All…..         Does anyone know where i can find some patterns and tips on the net…… Thanks

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Try this one; http://www.fishnet.com.au/flyswap/ See the flybox or try a fly swap – it’s a good way to see what other people tie. Many patterns from around the world, but mostly tied by Aussies – nymphs to flashy profiles. Cheers John Knight Sydney FlyRodders’

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http://www.f-deans.freeserve.co.uk Over 200 pages and 400 images. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –    Hi All…..        Does anyone know where i can find some patterns and tips on the net…… Thanks

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    Hi All…..         Does anyone know where i can find some patterns and tips on the net…… Thanks

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Question:

Hi, I’m a short time lurker. Was wondering if anybody could recommend a resort/guide service in Colorado offering private water and/or accommodations. Thanks in advance. John Sorell

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Go to www.elktrout.com

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Elktrout is a very fine, fly fishing only-catch and release only,  resort with great strecthes of private property on two rivers and quite a few fantastic ponds.  The guides work hard and you fish right up to dark. Bows and cut throats are prevalent in the ponds with some very large browns lurking in the rivers.  Fish seem to bight all the time.  Quarters and food are first rate. Scenery is beautiful but lots and lots of cow shit to avoid.  All together a wonderful private retreat. Tom Bogdan

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Thanks to all for the replies….John – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Elktrout is a very fine, fly fishing only-catch and release only,  resort with great strecthes of private property on two rivers and quite a few fantastic ponds.  The guides work hard and you fish right up to dark. Bows and cut throats are prevalent in the ponds with some very large browns lurking in the rivers.  Fish seem to bight all the time.  Quarters and food are first rate. Scenery is beautiful but lots and lots of cow shit to avoid.  All together a wonderful private retreat. Tom Bogdan

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Question:

get ahold of Lindwood Lodge which is located on Lake Neimeben which is northern Satc  you will have tired arms from catching Northerns all day long in a 45 mile long lake. and I will answer ? you may have. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -we just want to catch fish we just want to catch fish

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for the past 10 yrs. my friends and i have gone to canada for pike fishing , each year the catch is less and less , we are looking for anything. fly-in, drive-in any ideas. we just want to catch fish

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Often your best bet is to wait until you get there and buy what the resort recommends – or at least call the resort owner and ask him what he recommends. — – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -please help me answer some inquiries, i am going fishing in SE ontario canada and would like to know the best bait or lures to use.

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going pike fishing, wondering what is the best lures or bait to use in se ontario

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please help me answer some inquiries, i am going fishing in SE ontario canada and would like to know the best bait or lures to use.

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going pike fishing, wondering what is the best lures or bait to use in se ontario

You can’t go wrong with a weedless five od diamonds.  Red or Black!!

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please help me answer some inquiries, i am going fishing in SE ontario canada and would like to know the best bait or lures to use.

Sorry for the spelling error.  That was the five OF diamonds for pike.   Weedless ones work the best.  Use the red on yellow or the black on yellow.  Good luck, but Pike will bite almost anything.

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how late in the season can you fish for pike. is there any special tactics for cold weather pike fishing.Thanks Al Angling applied to business

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how late in the season can you fish for pike. is there any special tactics for cold weather pike fishing.Thanks Al Angling applied to business

Pike prefer cold water and the fishing only gets better as the water cools down.  In deep water lakes the monsters stay deep when the water is warm.   Smaller pike are not as affected & will be caught all summer long in shallow water but the big ones only come in temps come down.  So until ice over you will see more pike in shallow.   As for tactics I prefer big bait for big fish.   7" or larger live suckers on either a circle hook or quick strike rig.  When you feel a strike you’ll need to give it time to eat it (less so for the quick strike rig).  Best to remain on top of it trolling to keep up with it as it moves.  Set your hook & hold on. For lures, spinner baits, suicks & big cranks can produce too. They continue to be catchable throught the ice but I seldom ice fish so I can’t advise there. DD

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What is the best lure for pike fishing?

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I like a chartruese Swim Wizz or Believer.   6" in the spring…..8" later.   Works for me. Rich

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I don’t know if there is a "best lure" but I have had good luck with the Mepps #5 if you like to throw spinners. Also any wobbler, such as daredevel. What is the best lure for pike fishing?

– Fishing isn’t a matter of life or death, it’s more important than that!

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I try to bring a rod/reel with me when I backpack (my friend always brings his).  I mainly bring a few flys with me.  I think a good time to fish is when the mosquitos come out.  If you look at a lake you’ll see if fish are in there when the mosquitos are out (feeding time). Harold. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Alright, the truth has to come out sooner or later.  Why is there never a post on fishing and backpacking?  Don’t ask me to go to the alt.fishing newsgroup–those people are dedicated.  I am not.  I just want to know what I can expect if I carry a very small collapsible rod and mini-reel.  Whenever I try to fish in the backcountry, I come across tiny streams that look like there is no hope or mountain lake that is snow-free for all of two months a year and you can see to the bottom of and personally verify there are no fish in its sterile environment.  In 25 years of mountain backpacking, I have never caught a fish–although I do pretty good in the stocked lowlands. Does anyone have any wilderness fishing secrets to share with us?   Who packs a rod and are glad they did?  Secret bait?  Techniques? Equipment?  Eggs, worms, lures?  Just give it up?  Hunt for crawdads instead?  Catching local bait?  Set a line overnight?  Anything . . . — John Kiljan

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – An interesting thread. I’d like to ask a question of the experienced mountain fishermen out there : Is there a "fish line" analogous to timberline ? i.e. an altitude above which you will not find fish ? We’re heading for CO next week and I know of a gorgeous little lake way up around 13,000. Any chance there’ll be fish in it ? I don’t know the answer but the highest lake I have fished at with success is the Upper Hancock Lake (near the ghost town of St. Elmo) and it is, if memory serves me, just over 11,000 feet. One other lake (where I had the best fishing day of my life) is also just over 11,000 feet. Geez, 13,000 feet seems pretty high up there for fishing?

To the best of my knowledge,  trout are not native to most alpine lakes.  There is always a fall or bad rapids that prevents upstream migration.  If there are fish in high country lakes, they probably are stocked.  You’ll just have to ask.  the best place is a local fly shop. …… Seek harmony and balance in the mountains, find harmony and balance within…..

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Alright, the truth has to come out sooner or later.  Why is there never a post on fishing and backpacking?  Don’t ask me to go to the alt.fishing newsgroup–those people are dedicated.  I am not.  I just want to know what I can expect if I carry a very small collapsible rod and mini-reel.  

Well, here is an answer from a dedicated fisherman who backpacks. Whenever I try to fish in the backcountry, I come across tiny streams that look like there is no hope or mountain lake that is snow-free for all of two months a year and you can see to the bottom of and personally verify there are no fish in its sterile environment.  In 25 years of mountain backpacking, I have never caught a fish–although I do pretty good in the stocked lowlands.

Hard to say why you have never seen a fish up in the mountains… They are harder to see because they are wild and blend in with the bottom better, and they tend to be a lot smaller due to the restricted growing season. Does anyone have any wilderness fishing secrets to share with us?   Who packs a rod and are glad they did?  Secret bait?  Techniques? Equipment?  Eggs, worms, lures?  Just give it up?  Hunt for crawdads instead?  Catching local bait?  Set a line overnight?  Anything . . .

The secret? Flies. Pure and simple. Wild trout feed on insects. Learn how to fly fish. I rarely fail to catch at least a few in most of the high mountain streams and lakes. At least in the California Sierra Nevada Moutains. Darryl Hayashida

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snip Does anyone have any wilderness fishing secrets to share with us?   Who packs a rod and are glad they did?  Secret bait?  Techniques? Equipment?  Eggs, worms, lures?  Just give it up?  Hunt for crawdads instead?  Catching local bait?  Set a line overnight?  Anything . . . — John Kiljan

Hi John,         I do a lot of solo hiking and always carry fishing equipment which pays for the space and weight.  Most of my experience is in Yosemite and Sequoia, and I’ve never failed to catch small native trout.  I know there are a lot of purist who’ll object, but this is food, and I eat every one.         I carry a collapsible 7′ rod, a mini spinning reel with 4# mono line.  I use #18 bronze treble hooks and carry a black film canister filled with fresh velveta.  I barely cover the hook, this is small, like the head of a book match.  More will work, not any better though, and the fish are usually small anyway.         I fly fish some, so I understand a little about reading water.  I found fish in 4" slow runs, places too small to hide a canteen, places you’d swear wouldn’t hold a 6" trout.  I don’t cast, just drop it in and let the water pull off some line, and when it stops I reel in the slack.  Never counted how many tries to catch a fish, but I’ve never gotten bored or hungry.         Landing the fish is no problem.  I use the 2" blade on my Swiss Army knife to clean them per the Rappalla book.  I rinse them well and nestle them head to tail, wrap them in aluminum foil, and place them in the hot embers.  They have a lot of flavor.         Other things in my fishing kit:                 Red plastic hook disgorger with the big end cut off and                         the shaft roughened                 A clean plastic super market vegetable bag which I rinse                         and use again to put the dispatched fish on my                         belt                 1/4 of an old facecloth for picking up wigglin’ fish         Guess there are some other things I carry, sliding sinkers for lakes, a couple of small casting lures to amuse myself with, and a couple  plastic look-alike bugs.  Hope this helps. –Charleroi

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Do you really think that experienced people are going post their favorite fishing spot? Would you like by some land which occasionally above water? I don’t fish, so I won’t suggest that people fish at the V. place. But others can.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The secret? Flies. Pure and simple. Wild trout feed on insects. Learn how to fly fish. I rarely fail to catch at least a few in most of the high mountain streams and lakes. At least in the California Sierra Nevada Moutains. I like fly fishing too, but I doubt that it is "the secret". I have used a lightweight (4 lb test) with 1/16 oz. spinners and never failed to bring home fish for dinner in Colorado. I go for the fly fishing also.  But, the learning curve can be brutal. For someone not into fly fishing, I recommend spinners (ie: Mepps ‘0′) on a high quality 2 lb test line, -or- Power Bait fished 6 to 9 inches off the bottom with a tight line. Nothing to be proud of but they will catch fish. — I find that most people fall into one of two groups.  Those that are quick to tell you that it can’t be done, and those who are quick to try to make it work.  When all is said and done, I hope to be counted in the second group.  -  George  POWER BAIT??? That’s as bad as baiting bears!!! Shame on you.

I thought they were talking about trout.  When I go for bear I use a much heavier line.  2lbs test is just not strong enough for bear. My mistake. — I find that most people fall into one of two groups.  Those that are quick to tell you that it can’t be done, and those who are quick to try to make it work.  When all is said and done, I hope to be counted in the second group.  -  George

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The secret? Flies. Pure and simple. Wild trout feed on insects. Learn how to fly fish. I rarely fail to catch at least a few in most of the high mountain streams and lakes. At least in the California Sierra Nevada Moutains. I like fly fishing too, but I doubt that it is "the secret". I have used a lightweight (4 lb test) with 1/16 oz. spinners and never failed to bring home fish for dinner in Colorado. I go for the fly fishing also.  But, the learning curve can be brutal. For someone not into fly fishing, I recommend spinners (ie: Mepps ‘0′) on a high quality 2 lb test line, -or- Power Bait fished 6 to 9 inches off the bottom with a tight line. Nothing to be proud of but they will catch fish. — I find that most people fall into one of two groups.  Those that are quick to tell you that it can’t be done, and those who are quick to try to make it work.  When all is said and done, I hope to be counted in the second group.  -  George  POWER BAIT??? That’s as bad as baiting bears!!! Shame on you.

Actually, I thought they were walking about trout.  When I go for bear I use a much heaver line.  2 lbs test is just too light for bear. — I find that most people fall into one of two groups.  Those that are quick to tell you that it can’t be done, and those who are quick to try to make it work.  When all is said and done, I hope to be counted in the second group.  -  George

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The secret? Flies. Pure and simple. Wild trout feed on insects. Learn how to fly fish. I rarely fail to catch at least a few in most of the high mountain streams and lakes. At least in the California Sierra Nevada Moutains. I like fly fishing too, but I doubt that it is "the secret". I have used a lightweight (4 lb test) with 1/16 oz. spinners and never failed to bring home fish for dinner in Colorado. I go for the fly fishing also.  But, the learning curve can be brutal. For someone not into fly fishing, I recommend spinners (ie: Mepps ‘0′) on a high quality 2 lb test line, -or- Power Bait fished 6 to 9 inches off the bottom with a tight line. Nothing to be proud of but they will catch fish. — I find that most people fall into one of two groups.  Those that are quick to tell you that it can’t be done, and those who are quick to try to make it work.  When all is said and done, I hope to be counted in the second group.  -  George

  POWER BAIT???  That’s as bad as baiting bears!!! Shame on you.

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The secret? Flies. Pure and simple. Wild trout feed on insects. Learn how to fly fish. I rarely fail to catch at least a few in most of the high mountain streams and lakes. At least in the California Sierra Nevada Moutains. I like fly fishing too, but I doubt that it is "the secret". I have used a lightweight (4 lb test) with 1/16 oz. spinners and never failed to bring home fish for dinner in Colorado.

I go for the fly fishing also.  But, the learning curve can be brutal. For someone not into fly fishing, I recommend spinners (ie: Mepps ‘0′) on a high quality 2 lb test line, -or- Power Bait fished 6 to 9 inches off the bottom with a tight line. Nothing to be proud of but they will catch fish. — I find that most people fall into one of two groups.  Those that are quick to tell you that it can’t be done, and those who are quick to try to make it work.  When all is said and done, I hope to be counted in the second group.  -  George

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writes: The secret? Flies. Pure and simple. Wild trout feed on insects. Learn how to fly fish.

I use flies, but I don’t know how to fly fish in the traditional sense. I use a spinning rod and reel. About 2-3 feet from the end of the line I attach a elongated teardrop-shaped bobber. It has a rubber tube inside that the line slides through, then to secure it, I just give it a few twists. A plug opens on one end that I can fill with water; too much and it’ll sink, too little and I can’t cast far. Simple! Then I just tie on a fly on the end of the line and, wallah, flyfishing for people like me! My knowledge is that most high lakes in Washington state are stocked. I’m not sure how to tell the difference between wild and harvested fish. Anyone know? Jason R. wherever you go, there you are – HDT

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: An interesting thread. I’d like to ask a question of the : experienced mountain fishermen out there : Is there : a "fish line" analogous to timberline ? i.e. an altitude : above which you will not find fish ? : We’re heading for CO next week and I know of a gorgeous : little lake way up around 13,000. Any chance there’ll : be fish in it ? I’ve fished Ice Lake in the Eagle Cap Wilderness and caught many 6 – 8 inch trout.  Ice Lake is at 8,000 ft.  That’s the highest lake with fish that I know of, but it was stocked back in the ’20s.

Colorado has excellent fishing in alpine lakes above 9000′ primarily as a result of aerial stocking begun in the 1950’s. Cutthroat trout are the most common with brook and rainbow trout doing well also.Due to the pristine environment, abundant aquatic insect population and light fishing pressure these trout can grow larger than their cousins in low altitude streams and rivers. The dramatic changes in water temperature of high lakes probably has the greatest effect on fishing success. As the sun warms water close to shore the fish will migrate to the center or to deeper areas of the lake. Not very productive for a fisherman stuck on the shore. For this reason the higher the lake is the better, especially as summer wears on and the lower lakes gradually become warmer. Regards,  Brian

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Third, the biggest mistake that people make when they fish alpine lakes is that they do not fish deeply enough.  Most of my fly fishing is with an extra-fast sinking shooting head (this will mean something to flyfishers), at depths of 20-40 ft.  Fishing deep is easy with spinning gear; you just need to let your spinner sink.

Would you mind terribly to expound a little bit on "extra-fast sinking shooting head" for us novice fly fishers? I mean, this is some sort of wet fly? Do you need a sinking line (maybe that is obvious but I will ask anyway). Thanks, Lawrence Kennon

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Alright, the truth has to come out sooner or later.  Why is there never a post on fishing and backpacking?

There are: In "rec.outdoors.fishing.fly"  Virtually all of my backcountry travel centers on fly fishing.  I usually make one trip a year into the GSMNP and one trip into the Wind River Range.  The former is stream fishing, the latter almost exclusively lake fishing.  Most of these lakes are at or above timberline.  I don’t want to rub it in, but we always catch fish; lots of them too. Let me take the liberty to answer some questions and clarify some misconceptions: First, just because you can’t see fish does not mean they aren’t there. You have to look VERY carefully to see fish, must have a trained eye, and you must have polarized glasses (to reduce glare).  Keep in mind that trout are prey for many beasts of the wild, and if you can see them, they can almost certainly see you.  On many occasions, the only fish I ever see are those in my hand when I’m releasing them!   Second, there are few lakes of any size in the U.S. that really have only a 2-month ice out.  There are lots of lakes, however, that may be completely iced out for only 3 months or so.  This does not preclude a productive fishery.  I have fished lakes in the Wind River Range that are ice free for at most 4 months a year (July-Oct), and yet are extremely productive.  I fished a lake last year at 11,000 ft that held cutthroats up to nearly 30 inches (yep, 30 inches, not 30 centimeters).  This lake was still 1/4 iced-in the first week of August!  There probably is a limit to how high a lake can be and still support fish, but it is probably about the same limit as for people, which is higher than 13,000 ft (I think it is between 15K and 18K, but can’t remember). Third, the biggest mistake that people make when they fish alpine lakes is that they do not fish deeply enough.  Most of my fly fishing is with an extra-fast sinking shooting head (this will mean something to flyfishers), at depths of 20-40 ft.  Fishing deep is easy with spinning gear; you just need to let your spinner sink. Fourth, although it is true that few alpine lakes outside of the Sierras have native trout, many alpine lakes have self sustaining populations of wild trout.  For example, none of the lakes in the Winds originally had fish.  Much of the stocking was done by Finis Mitchell and his family in the 1920s and 1930s.  Many of these lakes have received no fish since then. Fifth, there are fishless alpine lakes out there, no doubt about it.  Lakes can be too shallow (they freeze solid, or nearly so); they can become oxygen depleted in the winter (esp. a problem if there is no inlet or outlet); and the water can be so sterile that there aren’t enough nutrients to feed the bugs that feed the fish (typically a problem for the first lake immediately below glaciers, etc.). If you have any questions, I’d be happy to try to answer them, except for the names of the lakes .  2-3 months of the year, and yet are extremely productive fisheries. are ice free for

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The secret? Flies. Pure and simple. Wild trout feed on insects. Learn how to fly fish. I rarely fail to catch at least a few in most of the high mountain streams and lakes. At least in the California Sierra Nevada Moutains. I like fly fishing too, but I doubt that it is "the secret". I have used a lightweight (4 lb test) with 1/16 oz. spinners and never failed to bring home fish for dinner in Colorado. lk

Spinners would be my second choice if I didn’t have my fly fishing gear with me. I fished spinners for ten years before I started fly fishing. It isn’t that one is more successful than the other, I just enjoy fly fishing, especially dry fly fishing more than spin fishing. My favorite spinner was (still is on the rare occasion that I spin fish) a size 1 or 2 (small) Panther Martin black body with yellow spots, gold blade. Darryl Hayashida

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: An interesting thread. I’d like to ask a question of the : experienced mountain fishermen out there : Is there : a "fish line" analogous to timberline ? i.e. an altitude : above which you will not find fish ? : We’re heading for CO next week and I know of a gorgeous : little lake way up around 13,000. Any chance there’ll : be fish in it ? I’ve fished Ice Lake in the Eagle Cap Wilderness and caught many 6 – 8 inch trout.  Ice Lake is at 8,000 ft.  That’s the highest lake with fish that I know of, but it was stocked back in the ’20s.

As someone else commented, most of the alpine lakes in CO were stocked at some time.  My father-in-law worked for Colorado Fish and Game, and one of his jobs was stocking wilderness lakes. He’d ride a horse and lead a pack string with panniers filled with fingerlings!  Lakes that were farther than a day’s ride, or inaccessible by horseback, were stocked by helicopter.  That must have been a sight! We’ve caught trout in lakes at 12,160 feet.  Most very high lakes are small and freeze thickly in the winter, so many are sterile unless there is ongoing stocking.  Trout are able to swim through some pretty impressive falls, though, so there is some migration, and if the lake is big enough the fish will be ok through the winter. Most of the lakes I’ve backpacked to in the Colorado high country have fish in them.  This doesn’t guarantee dinner, though. —   _][   Data Support Section * National Center for Atmospheric Research (NCAR)       __PO Box 3000, Boulder, Colorado 80307 * 303/497-1214 * 303/497-1298 fax

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: An interesting thread. I’d like to ask a question of the : experienced mountain fishermen out there : Is there : a "fish line" analogous to timberline ? i.e. an altitude : above which you will not find fish ? : We’re heading for CO next week and I know of a gorgeous : little lake way up around 13,000. Any chance there’ll : be fish in it ? I’ve fished Ice Lake in the Eagle Cap Wilderness and caught many 6 – 8 inch trout.  Ice Lake is at 8,000 ft.  That’s the highest lake with fish that I know of, but it was stocked back in the ’20s. greg rose

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The secret? Flies. Pure and simple. Wild trout feed on insects. Learn how to fly fish. I rarely fail to catch at least a few in most of the high mountain streams and lakes. At least in the California Sierra Nevada Moutains.

I like fly fishing too, but I doubt that it is "the secret". I have used a lightweight (4 lb test) with 1/16 oz. spinners and never failed to bring home fish for dinner in Colorado. lk

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It’s not hidden, you didn’t bother looking: Panel 26: Fishing         alt.fishing         alt.archery         rec.outdoors.fishing         rec.outdoors.fishing.fly         rec.boats Just like the white water paddlers. Like Muir said, Fishing is boring.

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An interesting thread. I’d like to ask a question of the experienced mountain fishermen out there : Is there a "fish line" analogous to timberline ? i.e. an altitude above which you will not find fish ? We’re heading for CO next week and I know of a gorgeous little lake way up around 13,000. Any chance there’ll be fish in it ? Gary

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An interesting thread. I’d like to ask a question of the experienced mountain fishermen out there : Is there a "fish line" analogous to timberline ? i.e. an altitude above which you will not find fish ? We’re heading for CO next week and I know of a gorgeous little lake way up around 13,000. Any chance there’ll be fish in it ?

I don’t know the answer but the highest lake I have fished at with success is the Upper Hancock Lake (near the ghost town of St. Elmo) and it is, if memory serves me, just over 11,000 feet. One other lake (where I had the best fishing day of my life) is also just over 11,000 feet. Geez, 13,000 feet seems pretty high up there for fishing? You will let us know how this turns out, won’t you? Lawrence Kennon

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alt.fishing newsgroup–those people are dedicated.  I am not.  I just want to know what I can expect if I carry a very small collapsible rod and mini-reel.  Whenever I try to fish in the backcountry, I come

I always do the same thing.  Most of my hiking  is done around larger bodies of water (lakes and such) Does anyone have any wilderness fishing secrets to share with us?   Who packs a rod and are glad they did?  Secret bait?  Techniques?

I’m always glad I packed the rod.  Even if I don’t catch anything (most of the time) I like to fish anyway.  Gives me an excuse not to do the dishes after supper! Andrew Roberts

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Does anyone have any wilderness fishing secrets to share with us?   Who packs a rod and are glad they did?  Secret bait?  Techniques? Equipment?  Eggs, worms, lures?  Just give it up?  Hunt for crawdads instead?  Catching local bait?  Set a line overnight?  Anything . . . I’ve had reasonable success in the last few years in fishing the

backcountry.  My buddy and I mostly catch-and-release (e.g. last year in Colorado we landed over 30 in an afternoon), but we sometimes keep enough to "have a feast."  I guess I could say that the secret is to be prepared for a "hunt" to find what the fish are interested in.  Last year, it was easy enough because they were hitting small spinners (e.g., Panther Martin’s and Mepps) on very light line (e.g. 2 lb.).  However, the previous year (in New Mexico), the fish just weren’t interested in anything in our "tackle box."  So, we resorted to using little grubs found in the stream bed (helgromites (sp), I believe they are called), and the fish went nuts.  We used a very small hook and "bobbed" the bait up and down.  Actually, it was more like try to get the hook into the water and out again before one latched on.  (I actually had one fish–they were native cut-throat–jump out of the water to get the bait).  So, a lot of trial-and-error will probably be necessary to find what they are attracted to.  However, it has been load of fun.  BTW:   These cases were both streams above 9000 feet.  My only recent experience with mountain lakes was a small lake in Apache-Setgreaves (Arizona), which had obviously been stocked with Artic Grayling (and "interesting" fish to pull out of the water in Arizona!).

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Does anyone have any wilderness fishing secrets to share with us?   Who packs a rod and are glad they did?  Secret bait?  Techniques? Equipment?  Eggs, worms, lures?  Just give it up?  Hunt for crawdads instead?  Catching local bait?  Set a line overnight?  Anything . . .

In Colorado I have had very good luck with a small spin casting rod/reel (4 lb test) using little 1/16 ounce spinners (Wooters, or Hooters, or something like that are my favorite). I have caught trout in lakes over 11,000 feet while standing on old snow on the bank and icebergs floating in the lake. Most of the lakes _do_ have edible (_very_ edible) trout in them. Have never had any luck on streams (haven’t really tried) but have seen fly fisherman catch them in streams. There is the little lake around Garfied (sorry, can’t tell you the name, that is my secret!) up about 11,000 feet or so, very small and fishable only at one end where it is deep enough. I had the best fishing day of my life there a couple years ago. We set up the tent and left the wife and kids to go look for a place to fish on this lake (first time there) and I found this little "hole" at one end. In a few minutes with approx. 7-8 casts I caught 5 great trout, several of them quite big. Needless to say we feasted that night. The bad news is that it is quite a hike off the beaten path to get there. Perhaps that is why there were a lot of hungry and unwary fish. Look for a lake like that, one that is _hard_ to get to, one that isn’t visited often. lk

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Alright, the truth has to come out sooner or later.  Why is there never a post on fishing and backpacking?  Don’t ask me to go to the alt.fishing newsgroup–those people are dedicated.  I am not.  I just want to know what I can expect if I carry a very small collapsible rod and mini-reel.  Whenever I try to fish in the backcountry, I come across tiny streams that look like there is no hope or mountain lake that is snow-free for all of two months a year and you can see to the bottom of and personally verify there are no fish in its sterile environment.  In 25 years of mountain backpacking, I have never caught a fish–although I do pretty good in the stocked lowlands. Does anyone have any wilderness fishing secrets to share with us?   Who packs a rod and are glad they did?  Secret bait?  Techniques? Equipment?  Eggs, worms, lures?  Just give it up?  Hunt for crawdads instead?  Catching local bait?  Set a line overnight?  Anything . . . — John Kiljan

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Question:

Smallies are excellent fly-rod fare; they will add a whole new dimension to the trout angler’s experience. Fish them with large nymphs (out east we rely heavily on the hellgrammite, which is an early stage of the Dobson fly), crayfish imitations, or minnow imitations.  Woolly buggers are a good starting point.  Don’t go down to too fine a tippet; they aren’t as discriminating (usually) as trout. They’ll hit surface lures; they basically behave like a cross between a trout (for current relationships) and a bass (striking and fighting characteristics.) Reply to report on your success! DM

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Smallies are excellent fly-rod fare; they will add a whole new dimension to the trout angler’s experience. Fish them with large nymphs (out east we rely heavily on the hellgrammite, which is an early stage of the Dobson fly), crayfish imitations, or minnow imitations.  Woolly buggers are a good starting point.  Don’t go down to too fine a tippet; they aren’t as discriminating (usually) as trout. They’ll hit surface lures; they basically behave like a cross between a trout (for current relationships) and a bass (striking and fighting characteristics.) Reply to report on your success! DM

Two points:         1.  Fish deep for the big ones.  Right along the bottom with weighted flys.  Dead drift accomplishes this best.  Even streamers need to be down on the bottom, I’ve found.         2.  Check with the locals about colors.  Surpising to me was that black works best in some rivers and not at all on others. Compare the Shenadoah with the Potomac, for instance. I’ve quit fishing for trout (even tho I always found it an exciting sport) except during the winter when the smallmouth bass go silent. No matter how big the trout or what species, I’ve never had a trout fight as hard or jump as high as a smallmouth of equivalent size.  It’s a real blast. Get the book "Flyfishing for Smallmouth Bass" by Harry Murray of Edinburg, VA for all the neat tricks.   Have fun.   Jim

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Respecting Harry’s book and school and school of thought:  Excellent work and useful, but some variations I have found successful: 1.  HM mainly works the ‘Doah branches.  Even the largest, the South Fork, is fairly small water compared to the Potomac, James, New, Susquehanna, etc.  Often, small or large water is irrelevant since habitat is "micro", that is, unaffected by the size of the river.  At times, however, the total size issue is critical.  The Shenandoah has a very great density of smaller fish; this leads to different patterns.  Also, in a system dominated by large numbers of smaller fish, the effectiveness of nymph and crawdad patterns changes.  Larger fish will key on larger prey, and hellgrammites just don’t get that big.    Also, bigger water has heavier flow, negating some bottom-relating techniques Harry uses with great success unless you are willing to use heavier gear. 2.  In a boat, Harry’s lighter tackle/lighter tippet (than I prefer) techniques are less practical.  I rarely go below 1x or 6lb or so tippet, often staying up around 12 lb, especially in fluorocarbons.  I have noticed no reduction in fish size or numbers, and I am able to deliver larger flies and weighted flies with ease. 3.   A drifted, rather than a stripped, delivery is less practical for our purposes on the Potomac.  In bigger water, in a boat, with a larger fly, I usually wind up encouraging my clients to fish far and fast, though this may offend the purist.  When we wade fish away from the boat, a more thorough and deliberate approach is possible, but on a nine-mile float we have some water to cover. 4.  The Susquehanna and New rivers, which are very large both in flow rate and depth variation, often require an even more pronounced departure from the standard techniques as espoused by Harry.  My best fish on both rivers came on large flies (4"+) perhaps more suitable for the salt.  Fewer hits, of course, but serious quality fish and the possibility of an appearance by the next species up the food chain (genus Esox) is possible. 5.   We’re also talking about a heavier line here.  7 weight is standard, and up to a 9 is my first choice.  That way there is no compromise on distance and power.   I have great respect for Harry’s way, and it is always the starting point, but be aware that there are some further techniques to try. Dave

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Fly fishing for Bass on the Kanawha River near Charleston, West Virginia is a trip.. Something not for the typical Fisherman. Now the water is up and very muddy, but when it go back down, I’ll let everyone know how the Fishing is…. Misha

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very muddy, but when it go back down, I’ll let everyone know how the Fishing is….

Yes please!  I especially like that strech just before Rt. 60 goes up into the mountains.  (would that be Gauly Bridge? ) Bob

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