Question:

eliminated several years before, and yet we still found cattle and signs of regular grazing activity *inside the former and still-fenced allotments*. Actually grazing more animals than are allowed under the permit and grazing outside the boundaries of the permit are commonplace.

I’m sure there are instances of illegal activity such as you described. However, from my experience, I don’t believe that these instances are "commonplace". — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

Response:

Even if they are, that just means more money needs to be spent on enforcing the current restrictions, not coming up with more.

And sadly the folks breaking the law are the same ones against any additional government enforcement of the law. Thomas Gilg

Response:

  George– This is Cindy… Brian’s wife writing now.  I cannot believe your comments regarding ranchers/cattlemen ripping off the consumer.  I grew up in Eastern Montana on a small ranch.  My father received 70-90 cents per pound for his calves sold every fall.  This fall the price given to cattlemen for their calves is still 70-75 cents per pound.  Not much of a raise over the past 20 years.

snipped: Just don’t like cattle on my Federal Lands stealing habitat that belongs to the American People’s wildlife inventories.  Cattle destroy much too much and are a financially bankrupting entity that needs to be removed from all our outdoor recreational lands. George Gehrke

Response:

Just don’t like cattle on my Federal Lands stealing habitat that belongs to the American People’s wildlife inventories.  Cattle destroy much too much and are a financially bankrupting entity that needs to be removed from all our outdoor recreational lands.

The American People’s wildlife inventories are not starving nor do they lack a home. So what I hear you saying is that multiple use on our public lands actually equates to ONLY recreation. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

Response:

Actually grazing more animals than are allowed under the permit and grazing outside the boundaries of the permit are commonplace.

Brian D. Nelson responded: I can recall many times having the BLM officer who monitors the grazing permits … I also know of ranchers (not many, though) who lost their grazing permits … You,  sir, are clueless.

Across the west you’ll find varying compliance with grazing permits. Ditto logging laws and so on. I regularily volunteer to help with multi-agency state/federal fish surveys in eastern Oregon, and it is not uncommon to find cattle grazing well outside their permitted range. In one case we were surveying for bull trout in a remote backcountry area where grazing permits had been eliminated several years before, and yet we still found cattle and signs of regular grazing activity *inside the former and still-fenced allotments*. Some of the agency folks were suppose to followup on that discovery. Thomas Gilg

Response:

Actually grazing more animals than are allowed under the permit and grazing outside the boundaries of the permit are commonplace.  As enforcement by the government is almost nonexistant, that shouldn’t be surprising.  These common practices do constitute theft in anyone’s book.

Obviously, you’ve never spent any time in eastern Montana where a lot of grazing is done on BLM. I can recall many times having the BLM officer who monitors the grazing permits in our area come around to check grass conditions, number of cattle, water hole conditions, whether or not the ranchers are pulling there cows off public ground at the designated time, etc., etc., etc. I also know of ranchers (not many, though) who lost their grazing permits (and they should) for not following the stipulated conditions on their permit. This same scenario (the proper management of grazing permits) happens all across the American West on both National Forest System Lands and Bureau of Land Management lands. You,  sir, are clueless. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

Response:

FISHING RELATED POST?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You’re getting the lower price right now.  Jesus why do I even bother. christ.  I never met a cattleman who stole America’s grass lands and graze that I liked.  You’re right. Why should a nobody lbother? Mr.G. You never met a cattleman, period. —

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When you’re paying $9 a pound for beef you’ll be blaming that on Bush too I suppose. Getting screwed by Ranchers must stop.  When did YOU ever get a discount on a pound of beef for letting them steal grass and graze and destroying habitat in the past? Never? Your right!! Mr.G. You’re getting the lower price right now.  Jesus why do I even bother. christ.  I never met a cattleman who stole America’s grass lands and graze that I liked.  You’re right. Why should a nobody lbother? Mr.G. You don’t have to like them, you have that right, but they are not stealing anything. As long as they have grazing permits it is legal.

Actually grazing more animals than are allowed under the permit and grazing outside the boundaries of the permit are commonplace.  As enforcement by the government is almost nonexistant, that shouldn’t be surprising.  These common practices do constitute theft in anyone’s book. Jon

Response:

I never met a cattleman who stole America’s grass lands and graze that I liked.  You’re right. Why should a nobody lbother?

In this country, you are entitled to your own opinion…. even when it’s an incorrect one. Maybe if you’d actually get out there and meet a real cattleman, you’d change your tune. George– This is Cindy… Brian’s wife writing now.  I cannot believe your comments regarding ranchers/cattlemen ripping off the consumer.  I grew up in Eastern Montana on a small ranch.  My father received 70-90 cents per pound for his calves sold every fall.  This fall the price given to cattlemen for their calves is still 70-75 cents per pound.  Not much of a raise over the past 20 years.  Your accusations against the ranchers holds no water.  You are basically talking out of your rear-end.  If you would do some research and cared about your country, you would see that the family ranches are unable to support their families.  Any help we can give the ranchers in the use of public lands is money put back into our economy and assistance to families who are trying to make a living providing food for your table.  And just in case you are a vegetarian, don’t forget those ranchers who graze cattle on public land can then use the land they own to grow grain and barley for your bread.  Don’t be such a twit. Boy, George… did you ever step in it!! When Cindy reads over my shoulder and kicks me off the keyboard…. well, you get the drift. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

Response:

  When you’re paying $9 a pound for beef you’ll be blaming that on Bush too I suppose.

Getting screwed by Ranchers must stop.  When did YOU ever get a discount on a pound of beef for letting them steal grass and graze and destroying habitat in the past? Never? Your right!! Mr.G.

Response:

Getting screwed by Ranchers must stop.  When did YOU ever get a discount on a pound of beef for letting them steal grass and graze and destroying habitat in the past?

Boy, George, are you living in the netherworld if you think ranchers have ANY influence on the retail price of beef. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

Response:

What’s to do with FISHING anyways?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Boy, George, are you living in the netherworld if you think ranchers have ANY influence on the retail price of beef. What, are you suggesting that both ends are getting screwed by the large corporations in the middle? How un-American! Jon.

Response:

  When you’re paying $9 a pound for beef you’ll be blaming that on Bush – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – too I suppose. Getting screwed by Ranchers must stop.  When did YOU ever get a discount on a pound of beef for letting them steal grass and graze and destroying habitat in the past? Never? Your right!! Mr.G. You’re getting the lower price right now.  Jesus why do I even bother.

christ.  I never met a cattleman who stole America’s grass lands and graze that I liked.  You’re right. Why should a nobody lbother? Mr.G.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When you’re paying $9 a pound for beef you’ll be blaming that on Bush too I suppose. Getting screwed by Ranchers must stop.  When did YOU ever get a discount on a pound of beef for letting them steal grass and graze and destroying habitat in the past? Never? Your right!! Mr.G. You’re getting the lower price right now.  Jesus why do I even bother. christ.  I never met a cattleman who stole America’s grass lands and graze that I liked.  You’re right. Why should a nobody lbother? Mr.G.

You don’t have to like them, you have that right, but they are not stealing anything. As long as they have grazing permits it is legal.

Response:

|  What our outdoor wildlife inventories need is the total removal of all | livestock that steal their food and habitat. | | Why? | | Because wildlife is more valuable to a state’s economy as it is to the | Federal Economy. | | Allowing grazing on Federal (PUBLIC) lands to individual ranchers is stupid | economics. | | George G. | | | | | | | When you’re paying $9 a pound for beef you’ll be blaming that on Bush | too I suppose. | — That’s why I advocate using funds collected from grazing federal lands be used to induce ranchers to use land that has already been converted to farming.  I’d rather convert from arable to grazing land, than forest/prairie to grazing land ! I don’t accept that it’s a choice between cattle & tourists – it’s more of a choice between cattle & migrants. But if we convince ranchers to move East onto arable land, we come closer to both protecting our fragile environments AND providing beef at competitive prices (compared to Argentinean beef). P.S. I remember paying $9 a pound for beef in the UK – beef was one of the most expensive forms of meat. But now I pay $9 a pound for Stilton cheese instead (I paid $3-4 a pound for Stilton in the UK).

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was listening to a recent NPR program, discussing the problems of depopulation in rural communities back east… Most of the rural counties in Oregon are loosing population, and it was several years ago when I heard a statistic that 90% of the rural landowners were age 60 or greater. I don’t know how true the 90% stat is, but it does appear rural america is dwindling for *many* reasons. Though I consider myself an environmentalists, and often see the need for action *now*, I also recognize that there are more powerful long-term changes occuring in the US such as rural depopulation, and often think that there is an opportunity for environmentalists and landowners to accept this trend (rather than force it), and see ways to make it positive. Case in point – I could spend lots of time going after grazing issues, or I could spend lots of time understanding which landowners are wanting to sell off (because their kids aren’t following in their footsteps) and seeing how to move that land into less intensive uses. Thomas Gilg

Also what has to be remembered is that the ranchers who won’t be able to afford higher grazing fees will be the smaller family operations. The bigger ones will be able to absorb any increased costs. By most accounts grazing is a problem ( a huge problem in some instances) along the riparian corridors out west but it is also problematic if the solution only brings about the demise of family ranches to the benefit of the huge multi-national conglomerate run outfits. No one said this was going to be easy. George C.

Response:

 What our outdoor wildlife inventories need is the total removal of all livestock that steal their food and habitat. Why? Because wildlife is more valuable to a state’s economy as it is to the Federal Economy. Allowing grazing on Federal (PUBLIC) lands to individual ranchers is stupid economics. George G.

Response:

|

| I was listening to a recent NPR program, discussing the problems of | depopulation in rural communities back east… | | Most of the rural counties in Oregon are loosing population, and it was | several years ago when I heard a statistic that 90% of the rural landowners | were age 60 or greater. I don’t know how true the 90% stat is, but it does | appear rural america is dwindling for *many* reasons. Though I consider | myself an environmentalists, and often see the need for action *now*, I | also recognize that there are more powerful long-term changes occuring | in the US such as rural depopulation, and often think that there is an | opportunity for environmentalists and landowners to accept this trend | (rather than force it), and see ways to make it positive. Case in point – | I could spend lots of time going after grazing issues, or I could spend | lots of time understanding which landowners are wanting to sell off | (because their kids aren’t following in their footsteps) and seeing how to | move that land into less intensive uses. | | Thomas Gilg | | | | | Also what has to be remembered is that the ranchers who won’t be able to afford | higher grazing fees will be the smaller family operations. The bigger ones will | be able to absorb any increased costs. By most accounts grazing is a problem ( a | huge problem in some instances) along the riparian corridors out west but it is | also problematic if the solution only brings about the demise of family ranches | to the benefit of the huge multi-national conglomerate run outfits. | | No one said this was going to be easy. | George C. | That may be true, too. The reason my grandfather specialized, was to devote more acres to one crop, to be able to absorb the fixed overheads. But even he had just 500 acres. My father struggled to make money. I refused to take over – it was clear at an early age that it simply COULD NOT be profitable, because of/despite the (socialist) policies of the Common Agricultural Policy, dreamed up by the EU. These same policies were actually intended to protect the family farm. In reality they destroyed it. Q. How far do we go, to protect the family farm? The French have split their farms between 2 (or more) sons for generations. Now they have 100-acre farms that are mere subsistence farming. On an environmental tack – I would prefer to see people grazing farm land that is already farm land & lacking farmers, rather than grazing the more fragile environments often (but not always) found on federal lands. Take the money farm managers pay and use it to encourage farmers to take up the land that has been converted from it’s natural state, into My family were TENANT farmers. After my father & his brother retired, the farm was bought from the landlord & is now actually profitable. Q. HOW – by finding a niche. The current farmers don’t try to compete with the large managed farms. They run an organic farm – even the wool is organic. They don’t need help competing, because they specialisze. I suspect the family-ranchers here in the SW USA will have to also find a niche.

Response:

I was listening to a recent NPR program, discussing the problems of depopulation in rural communities back east…

Most of the rural counties in Oregon are loosing population, and it was several years ago when I heard a statistic that 90% of the rural landowners were age 60 or greater. I don’t know how true the 90% stat is, but it does appear rural america is dwindling for *many* reasons. Though I consider myself an environmentalists, and often see the need for action *now*, I also recognize that there are more powerful long-term changes occuring in the US such as rural depopulation, and often think that there is an opportunity for environmentalists and landowners to accept this trend (rather than force it), and see ways to make it positive. Case in point – I could spend lots of time going after grazing issues, or I could spend lots of time understanding which landowners are wanting to sell off (because their kids aren’t following in their footsteps) and seeing how to move that land into less intensive uses. Thomas Gilg

Response:

        www.sfgate.com        Return to regular view In the old West, a tense showdown over federal lands JIM CARLTON, The Wall Street Journal Monday, November 11, 2002

Question:

That’s a pretty little fish from a lovely looking stream!   Ian Scott http://www.about-flyfishing.com/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For anyone that’s interested take a look at my first fish of the year. Here is the baby that started that inspired the post. www.thefigs.net

Response:

For anyone that’s interested take a look at my first fish of the year. Here is the baby that started that inspired the post. www.thefigs.net

Response:

…..Valley Creek…….flows through Valley Forge National Park…….a perfect breeding ground for the Brownies, and they thrived, even in the shadow of the Philadelphia metropolis……

Damn!  I looked at that creek one time, about six or seven years ago. My sister’s back yard borders the park.  When I went to visit her I looked at the stream rather closely and thought that it might be an adequate habitat but…..nah, WAY too urban.  Damn! Wolfgang who hadn’t bothered to bring any fishing gear      :(

Response:

Carlos!! First fish on a fly, on Valley Creek!!  Quite an accomplishment! My first trout came on an Olive Caddis Pupa (didn’t have a clue what it was then) on the Tulpehocken in Reading.  I was fortunate enough to be on that creek, which is quite wide, so I didn’t have to worry as much about catching the trees.  I did my share of churning up the water behind me, but would suggest the same approach to any new flyfisherman (just make sure to give yourself plenty of room between yourself and the trainee). As for Valley Creek, although I caught my first trout on the Tulpehocken, Valley Creek was my training ground (before and after).  For those of you who don’t know this creek,  The bottom section (the most productive) flows through Valley Forge National Park.  It’s a catch and release section of water due to PCB pollution from a train spill.  Although this event was unfortunate, it did force the DER to take this stream off of the stocking list.  Because of it’s limestone character, Valley Creek turned out to be a perfect breeding ground for the Brownies, and they thrived, even in the shadow of the Philadelphia metropolis.  These fish are quite "smart" though, because of the regs, and significant fishing pressure, they have been caught & released several, if not numerous, times.  The stream is not too wide (guessing an AVERAGE of 7-8 feet, but my comrade may correct me) and usually quite clear, so the approach can be quite tough.  There is a good population of midges on this creek, and the most prolific mayfly hatch is the Sulphur in May/June. Valley Forge Park itself is a nice place to take the family to learn about history, and to just take in the sites.  It is a very large park for it’s location close to the city, and there is a large contingent of deer in the park that can easily be seen in the morning and evenings (of course they are protected).  There’s plenty of room to spread out the picnic blanket, a paved recreation/walking trail flows throughout the park, but you can wander wherever you choose.  There’s also a nice bike trail along the Schuylkill River (Valley Creek empties into this river in the Park) that can lead you right into Center City Philadelphia if you have the energy (it’s 15-20 miles to Center City).   There is also a nice population of Smallmouth (in the River only) but it’s tough to fish ‘em unless you have a boat or float tube (guessing 200+ feet wide and cannot be crossed by foot). Although the average fish in this creek is probably 10-14 inches at best,  I’ve caught 20+ inch Browns in this creek, and have seen a few 25+, at the right time of year.  If you plan on visiting the Park make sure to pack the fly gear. A basic pair of hippers should get you by, remember to keep in the shadows, and tread softly, The Finn

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I got my brand new fly fishing gear as a gift from my wife for Christmas in the way of an Orvis gift certificate. Eager to get out on the water, not haveing fly fished before, I took my gear to the local pond to practice my casting. Went well, nice open space after several cast seemed to have the hang of it. A couple of weeks later went to fish at Valley Creek here in PA. This stream is a class A Wild Trout stream that is very difficult to fish. Spent the afternoon untageling my line from trees and loosing several nymph flies. But today, 2 days after the first snow storm in the Philadelphia area, I had the urge to get out and try my rod again. Went back to the same stream because I know at this time of year this was my best shot to catch something. Within minutes of getting to the stream I found a "honey hole" 4 feet deep and filled with trout, after an hour of casting a hares ear nymph, I guessed that I had spooked all the fish because of my line slapping the water, or getting caught in fallen leaves, or snaging rocks, so I decided to move upstream and hope to find another hole like this one. 3 hours later, after a mile of walking upstream and not seeing a single fish, I decided it was time to call it a day. With my tail between my legs I walked back towards the honey hole where my car was parked. I decided before I go in I would just make a couple more casts hopeing the fish came back. As I lifted my line a felt a tug, prepared to lose another fly, I lifted my rod tip a lo and behold "FISH ON". A beutiful 10 inch brown, not a big fish, but a fish that will stay in my mind forever. The first fish of the year, and on a fly, it just doesn’t get much better than that. I thought maybe this story would inspire a thread of stories about everyones first fish caught on a fly. I’m sure there are many stories out there that stick in peoples memories.

Response:

Yes, this is all true. The creek from what I was told is extremly hard to fish. I felt very lucky to catch one on my second visit there. I am actually moving in the summer about 15 min. from Tuplehocken, I have not fished there yet but have heard some great things about it. Valley Creek and French Creek are currently my home waters until June. Are there any tips about Tuplehocken that I can use, especially since it will be my new home waters.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Carlos!! First fish on a fly, on Valley Creek!!  Quite an accomplishment! My first trout came on an Olive Caddis Pupa (didn’t have a clue what it was then) on the Tulpehocken in Reading.  I was fortunate enough to be on that creek, which is quite wide, so I didn’t have to worry as much about catching the trees.  I did my share of churning up the water behind me, but would suggest the same approach to any new flyfisherman (just make sure to give yourself plenty of room between yourself and the trainee). As for Valley Creek, although I caught my first trout on the Tulpehocken, Valley Creek was my training ground (before and after).  For those of you who don’t know this creek,  The bottom section (the most productive) flows through Valley Forge National Park.  It’s a catch and release section of water due to PCB pollution from a train spill.  Although this event was unfortunate, it did force the DER to take this stream off of the stocking list.  Because of it’s limestone character, Valley Creek turned out to be a perfect breeding ground for the Brownies, and they thrived, even in the shadow of the Philadelphia metropolis.  These fish are quite "smart" though, because of the regs, and significant fishing pressure, they have been caught & released several, if not numerous, times.  The stream is not too wide (guessing an AVERAGE of 7-8 feet, but my comrade may correct me) and usually quite clear, so the approach can be quite tough.  There is a good population of midges on this creek, and the most prolific mayfly hatch is the Sulphur in May/June. Valley Forge Park itself is a nice place to take the family to learn about history, and to just take in the sites.  It is a very large park for it’s location close to the city, and there is a large contingent of deer in the park that can easily be seen in the morning and evenings (of course they are protected).  There’s plenty of room to spread out the picnic blanket, a paved recreation/walking trail flows throughout the park, but you can wander wherever you choose.  There’s also a nice bike trail along the Schuylkill River (Valley Creek empties into this river in the Park) that can lead you right into Center City Philadelphia if you have the energy (it’s 15-20 miles to Center City).   There is also a nice population of Smallmouth (in the River only) but it’s tough to fish ‘em unless you have a boat or float tube (guessing 200+ feet wide and cannot be crossed by foot). Although the average fish in this creek is probably 10-14 inches at best,  I’ve caught 20+ inch Browns in this creek, and have seen a few 25+, at the right time of year.  If you plan on visiting the Park make sure to pack the fly gear. A basic pair of hippers should get you by, remember to keep in the shadows, and tread softly, The Finn I got my brand new fly fishing gear as a gift from my wife for Christmas in the way of an Orvis gift certificate. Eager to get out on the water, not haveing fly fished before, I took my gear to the local pond to practice my casting. Went well, nice open space after several cast seemed to have the hang of it. A couple of weeks later went to fish at Valley Creek here in PA. This stream is a class A Wild Trout stream that is very difficult to fish. Spent the afternoon untageling my line from trees and loosing several nymph flies. But today, 2 days after the first snow storm in the Philadelphia area, I had the urge to get out and try my rod again. Went back to the same stream because I know at this time of year this was my best shot to catch something. Within minutes of getting to the stream I found a "honey hole" 4 feet deep and filled with trout, after an hour of casting a hares ear nymph, I guessed that I had spooked all the fish because of my line slapping the water, or getting caught in fallen leaves, or snaging rocks, so I decided to move upstream and hope to find another hole like this one. 3 hours later, after a mile of walking upstream and not seeing a single fish, I decided it was time to call it a day. With my tail between my legs I walked back towards the honey hole where my car was parked. I decided before I go in I would just make a couple more casts hopeing the fish came back. As I lifted my line a felt a tug, prepared to lose another fly, I lifted my rod tip a lo and behold "FISH ON". A beutiful 10 inch brown, not a big fish, but a fish that will stay in my mind forever. The first fish of the year, and on a fly, it just doesn’t get much better than that. I thought maybe this story would inspire a thread of stories about everyones first fish caught on a fly. I’m sure there are many stories out there that stick in peoples memories.

Response:

nice’un matt… my first was discovered in lost cove creek.  i continue to this day to be the recipient of the meager crumbs offered by ol pj, who for some misguided reason carted my ass along on one of his wayno-less forays into lost cove creek in 1979 or 1980. on our way through morganton, i bought a fenwick fiberglass rod and a martin reel.  back then you could drive the goat trail to the creek…if you didn’t care about the underbody.  as i recall, jim showed me a knot, gave me 2 yellow humpies, and said – "there’s the stream, the fish are in it, good luck"… leaving me to flog about in lonely but uncriticized desperation, he then went way upstream to the sassafrass area.  i waded, slid into the water with my rubber-sole hip boots (yeah, he thought that was funny too – jim’s got a dangerous sense of funny – i soon discovered the humor, painfully so).  but, i caught a trout in a riffle right in front of me.    don’t have any idea what it was, but it hooked me and i’ve been wigglin happy on the hook ever since. to this day, i consider pj’s gift of the stream second only to the grace of marriage to my wife rachel. jeff (who’s formal education in trout streams didn’t begin until i matriculated with wally and some of this crowd) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     Although, not my first fish on a fly, there is one trout that sticks out in my mind as a defining moment in my fishing career. My freshman year at Appalachian State found me far from friends and family, "trapped" in the mountains of N.C., with no drivers license and only my mountain bike to get around. The state of PA had decided that it would be safer for my fellow citizens if I went without a license for a few years, so I pedaled my ass everywhere. This sounds pretty healthy, until you’re faced with a two mile ride home after last call. Anyway, I had studied up on Boone for a few years while living in Chapel Hill and had a long list of streams scoped out well before I was able to move there. I had dog eared guide books, a pile of coffee stained topos and a long overdue North Carolina coffee table book (sorry Chapel Hill Public Library) that would ultimately lead me to some North Carolina Brookies.     I arrived in time for the spring semester and waited out the winter for my first Carolina Mountain spring. It did arrive eventually, but by that time I was hellbent on catching some trout. Over the winter I had made ‘friends’ with a neighbor of mine whose dad had exiled him to the mountains for an out of control cocaine and hooker habit, which he financed with his dad’s Visa. True story, nice guy, but a little "troubled". The gist of  the story is that the guy’s grandfather had given him a few cane rods. First time I laid eyes on that Abercrombie and Fitch ( he wouldn’t part with the Orvis, even after months of badgering) a deal was struck. I was out one Yamaha receiver and the proud owner of my first bamboo rod. This was a really big deal at the time and could only mean good things in my quest for Brookies.      By the blue lines on my topo, the nearest stream to my hole-in-the-wall basement apt. was Winklers Creek. In the heat of the summer, this stream plays host to naked hippy chicks who sun themselves on the rocks. My first trip there was far too chilly for that type of thing but later in the year I had quite a few pleasant days out. Hippy chicks are not shy about their love of the sun, and rarely turn down a cold beer. Oh yeah, so on a sunny April afternoon, I strapped the rod to the bike, made a quick stop at Peabody’s to grab a few pints for the event, and hit the stream. I put in at the "swimming pool" where I cast the A&F on water for the first time. She was heavy, but had a nice feel, and I soon had the rhythm down enough to get moving and catch some fish. Not twenty feet upstream from the "swimming pool" was a smaller pool, banked by huge boulders on all sides and covered by a canopy of spring greenery. I had sense enough at the time to sneak up on my quarry and managed to find a spot hidden from the pool where I could sit with a pint and relax while I scanned for risers. I barely had a gulp of beer down before I saw my first sign of life. A trout rose in a flash from the bottom, swirled, and engulfed a small sulfur. It was the type of rise that says, "throw me your sloppiest, splashiest cast and I’ll still eat the fly". I sat there for maybe a minute or two, slammed half my beer and then slinked down the the tail of the pool. I took position where could peer over a boulder and pick my victim. The fish were rising sporadically but persistently and before too long I let loose with my cast. The 9 foot cane rod was huge for this stream but handled the line beautifully. My cast dropped perfectly on the water. Of course, like in any good fishing story, the fish rose from the bottom gnashed down on the fly and headed for deeper water. I heaved back, set the hook, and proceeded to land my first North Carolina Brookie. I have since felt similiar emotions, but only rarely, and only when something happens that makes me think "it could *never*  get any better than this". McCray It took me a while to remember the first one, even tho it was less than 3 years ago.  I had to refer back to old messages & posts to finally pin it down.  The first one for me also represented another milestone, of sorts: it was without any ambiguity the smallest striped bass I have ever seen, somewhere around 9 inches or so.  It took a 10 and a half foot 9 weight to tame him  :-) I thought maybe this story would inspire a thread of stories about everyones first fish caught on a fly. I’m sure there are many stories out there that stick in peoples memories.

Response:

    Although, not my first fish on a fly, there is one trout that sticks out in my mind

Good story Matt. Willi

Response:

That must have been an epic battle on that 7 weight. Touch and go the whole time, eh?

BTW, Jeff, sometimes to add excitement to the fish-landing activity I’ll loosen my reel seat just enough while fishing so that hooking a fish causes the reel to fall off into the water. Makes an otherwise average fish seem like a *monster*. Just another of those tricks I learned from a fellow ROFFian. ‘Course seeing as you are the one who *taught* me that trick I guess you already know it. –Steve

Response:

Yeah – I ’bout died of exhaustion. Must have had to fight the monster for 30 seconds, but time went by so slow it seemed like a whole minute or two. — Bob Patton

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Welcome to this perfidious hobby! Your family and friends have my sympathy. My first ever fish on a fly was a rainbow caught on an orange cow dung fly beside the picnic area at Snowbird creek almost seventeen years ago. I had a $60 Daiwa 7-weight fly rod and some kind of Cortland reel. That must have been an epic battle on that 7 weight.  Touch and go the whole time, eh?

Response:

That must have been an epic battle on that 7 weight. Touch and go the whole time, eh? BTW, Jeff, sometimes to add excitement to the fish-landing activity I’ll loosen my reel seat just enough while fishing so that hooking a fish causes the reel to fall off into the water. Makes an otherwise average fish seem like a

*monster*. alright, alright….

Response:

Congratulations! My first fish on a fly was a chub.  I hated chub.  This stupid chub, which was sitting in a pool with a few brook trout, took my wooley bugger that I was told would catch me lots of brook trout.  The chub dang near devoured the whole fly.   I really dislike fish that make squeaking noises when you’re trying to dislodge a hook from it’s mouth.  I can never get over that. Spooks me too much to hear this ugly looking thing make noises while I’ve got the forceps in its mouth.  Gives me the shivers. I almost gave up on fly fishing after that.  I was about 15 years old, and had the impression that the only fish I could catch on a fly were beautiful trout.   Thankfully, I’ve discovered that’s not true.  I still can’t deal with the freakin squeeks of a chub though. Ian Scott http://www.about-flyfishing.com/

Response:

nice story matt…… i crossed winkler’s yesterday on a trip into boone. the ice has melted and i thought about the times when we used to fish that lil ole feeder stream that flows into winklers….. mebbe i’ll go back there this year. we’re getting rain today…. unbelievable, maybe 6 inches of snow this season total. i’m gonna head out somewhere today if the rains let up…. thinkin’ about high up on the watauga. see ya in pa, –walt – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     Although, not my first fish on a fly, there is one trout that sticks out in my mind as a defining moment in my fishing career. My freshman year at Appalachian State found me far from friends and family, "trapped" in the mountains of N.C., with no drivers license and only my mountain bike to get around. The state of PA had decided that it would be safer for my fellow citizens if I went without a license for a few years, so I pedaled my ass everywhere. This sounds pretty healthy, until you’re faced with a two mile ride home after last call. Anyway, I had studied up on Boone for a few years while living in Chapel Hill and had a long list of streams scoped out well before I was able to move there. I had dog eared guide books, a pile of coffee stained topos and a long overdue North Carolina coffee table book (sorry Chapel Hill Public Library) that would ultimately lead me to some North Carolina Brookies.     I arrived in time for the spring semester and waited out the winter for my first Carolina Mountain spring. It did arrive eventually, but by that time I was hellbent on catching some trout. Over the winter I had made ‘friends’ with a neighbor of mine whose dad had exiled him to the mountains for an out of control cocaine and hooker habit, which he financed with his dad’s Visa. True story, nice guy, but a little "troubled". The gist of  the story is that the guy’s grandfather had given him a few cane rods. First time I laid eyes on that Abercrombie and Fitch ( he wouldn’t part with the Orvis, even after months of badgering) a deal was struck. I was out one Yamaha receiver and the proud owner of my first bamboo rod. This was a really big deal at the time and could only mean good things in my quest for Brookies.      By the blue lines on my topo, the nearest stream to my hole-in-the-wall basement apt. was Winklers Creek. In the heat of the summer, this stream plays host to naked hippy chicks who sun themselves on the rocks. My first trip there was far too chilly for that type of thing but later in the year I had quite a few pleasant days out. Hippy chicks are not shy about their love of the sun, and rarely turn down a cold beer. Oh yeah, so on a sunny April afternoon, I strapped the rod to the bike, made a quick stop at Peabody’s to grab a few pints for the event, and hit the stream. I put in at the "swimming pool" where I cast the A&F on water for the first time. She was heavy, but had a nice feel, and I soon had the rhythm down enough to get moving and catch some fish. Not twenty feet upstream from the "swimming pool" was a smaller pool, banked by huge boulders on all sides and covered by a canopy of spring greenery. I had sense enough at the time to sneak up on my quarry and managed to find a spot hidden from the pool where I could sit with a pint and relax while I scanned for risers. I barely had a gulp of beer down before I saw my first sign of life. A trout rose in a flash from the bottom, swirled, and engulfed a small sulfur. It was the type of rise that says, "throw me your sloppiest, splashiest cast and I’ll still eat the fly". I sat there for maybe a minute or two, slammed half my beer and then slinked down the the tail of the pool. I took position where could peer over a boulder and pick my victim. The fish were rising sporadically but persistently and before too long I let loose with my cast. The 9 foot cane rod was huge for this stream but handled the line beautifully. My cast dropped perfectly on the water. Of course, like in any good fishing story, the fish rose from the bottom gnashed down on the fly and headed for deeper water. I heaved back, set the hook, and proceeded to land my first North Carolina Brookie. I have since felt similiar emotions, but only rarely, and only when something happens that makes me think "it could *never*  get any better than this". McCray It took me a while to remember the first one, even tho it was less than 3 years ago.  I had to refer back to old messages & posts to finally pin it down.  The first one for me also represented another milestone, of sorts: it was without any ambiguity the smallest striped bass I have ever seen, somewhere around 9 inches or so.  It took a 10 and a half foot 9 weight to tame him  :-) I thought maybe this story would inspire a thread of stories about everyones first fish caught on a fly. I’m sure there are many stories out there that stick in peoples memories.

– Tight Lines, –Walt Fly Fishing NC & more… http://www.ezflyfish.com http://www.wilsoncreekoutfitters.com

Response:

Welcome to this perfidious hobby! Your family and friends have my sympathy. My first ever fish on a fly was a rainbow caught on an orange cow dung fly beside the picnic area at Snowbird creek almost seventeen years ago. I had a $60 Daiwa 7-weight fly rod and some kind of Cortland reel. The really neat thing was that I caught it on a dry fly and got to see the fish rise and take the fly. I don’t know why I picked Snowbird instead of a more convenient stream, but that was it. — Bob Patton

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I got my brand new fly fishing gear as a gift from my wife for Christmas in the way of an Orvis gift certificate. Eager to get out on the water, not haveing fly fished before, I took my gear to the local pond to practice my casting. Went well, nice open space after several cast seemed to have the hang of it. A couple of weeks later went to fish at Valley Creek here in PA. This stream is a class A Wild Trout stream that is very difficult to fish. Spent the afternoon untageling my line from trees and loosing several nymph flies. But today, 2 days after the first snow storm in the Philadelphia area, I had the urge to get out and try my rod again. Went back to the same stream because I know at this time of year this was my best shot to catch something. Within minutes of getting to the stream I found a "honey hole" 4 feet deep and filled with trout, after an hour of casting a hares ear nymph, I guessed that I had spooked all the fish because of my line slapping the water, or getting caught in fallen leaves, or snaging rocks, so I decided to move upstream and hope to find another hole like this one. 3 hours later, after a mile of walking upstream and not seeing a single fish, I decided it was time to call it a day. With my tail between my legs I walked back towards the honey hole where my car was parked. I decided before I go in I would just make a couple more casts hopeing the fish came back. As I lifted my line a felt a tug, prepared to lose another fly, I lifted my rod tip a lo and behold "FISH ON". A beutiful 10 inch brown, not a big fish, but a fish that will stay in my mind forever. The first fish of the year, and on a fly, it just doesn’t get much better than that. I thought maybe this story would inspire a thread of stories about everyones first fish caught on a fly. I’m sure there are many stories out there that stick in peoples memories.

Response:

I thought maybe this story would inspire a thread of stories about everyones first fish caught on a fly. I’m sure there are many stories out there that stick in peoples memories.

I was bullied into trying a fly rod by my fishing partner one day about 12 years ago and my first fish as a brightly spotted brookie about 4" long, caught on what I think was a little bloody butcher. All of which sounds fine, until you realize I was using a 10′ 7wt rod and fishing for steelhead (lake run rainbows?) at the time…… Things have improved a little since. It was a pretty fish though, and it remains the only brookie I have ever caught on a fly. Vaughan

Response:

I started fly-fishing with a two-handed European-style salmon rod. (Most of the guys in our unofficial fishing club prefer salmon fishing nowadays.) The first catch was a 4" salmon parr from river Gaula in Norway. — Jarmo Hurri address or apply rot13 to header email address.

Response:

Welcome to this perfidious hobby! Your family and friends have my sympathy. My first ever fish on a fly was a rainbow caught on an orange cow dung fly beside the picnic area at Snowbird creek almost seventeen years ago. I had a $60 Daiwa 7-weight fly rod and some kind of Cortland reel.

That must have been an epic battle on that 7 weight.  Touch and go the whole time, eh?

Response:

I thought maybe this story would inspire a thread of stories about everyones first fish caught on a fly. I’m sure there are many stories out there that stick in peoples memories. I was bullied into trying a fly rod by my fishing partner one day about 12 years ago and my first fish as a brightly spotted brookie about 4" long, caught on what I think was a little bloody butcher. All of which sounds fine, until you realize I was using a 10′ 7wt rod…

Well that puts RWP’s fish battle to shame, doesn’t it?

Response:

Lissen here – that was an epic battle. Me and my stick versus the cunning slimy carnivorous predator! — Bob Patton

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I thought maybe this story would inspire a thread of stories about everyones first fish caught on a fly. I’m sure there are many stories out there that stick in peoples memories. I was bullied into trying a fly rod by my fishing partner one day about 12 years ago and my first fish as a brightly spotted brookie about 4" long, caught on what I think was a little bloody butcher. All of which sounds fine, until you realize I was using a 10′ 7wt rod… Well that puts RWP’s fish battle to shame, doesn’t it?

Response:

    Although, not my first fish on a fly, there is one trout that sticks out in my mind as a defining moment in my fishing career. My freshman year at Appalachian State found me far from friends and family, "trapped" in the mountains of N.C., with no drivers license and only my mountain bike to get around. The state of PA had decided that it would be safer for my fellow citizens if I went without a license for a few years, so I pedaled my ass everywhere. This sounds pretty healthy, until you’re faced with a two mile ride home after last call. Anyway, I had studied up on Boone for a few years while living in Chapel Hill and had a long list of streams scoped out well before I was able to move there. I had dog eared guide books, a pile of coffee stained topos and a long overdue North Carolina coffee table book (sorry Chapel Hill Public Library) that would ultimately lead me to some North Carolina Brookies.     I arrived in time for the spring semester and waited out the winter for my first Carolina Mountain spring. It did arrive eventually, but by that time I was hellbent on catching some trout. Over the winter I had made ‘friends’ with a neighbor of mine whose dad had exiled him to the mountains for an out of control cocaine and hooker habit, which he financed with his dad’s Visa. True story, nice guy, but a little "troubled". The gist of  the story is that the guy’s grandfather had given him a few cane rods. First time I laid eyes on that Abercrombie and Fitch ( he wouldn’t part with the Orvis, even after months of badgering) a deal was struck. I was out one Yamaha receiver and the proud owner of my first bamboo rod. This was a really big deal at the time and could only mean good things in my quest for Brookies.      By the blue lines on my topo, the nearest stream to my hole-in-the-wall basement apt. was Winklers Creek. In the heat of the summer, this stream plays host to naked hippy chicks who sun themselves on the rocks. My first trip there was far too chilly for that type of thing but later in the year I had quite a few pleasant days out. Hippy chicks are not shy about their love of the sun, and rarely turn down a cold beer. Oh yeah, so on a sunny April afternoon, I strapped the rod to the bike, made a quick stop at Peabody’s to grab a few pints for the event, and hit the stream. I put in at the "swimming pool" where I cast the A&F on water for the first time. She was heavy, but had a nice feel, and I soon had the rhythm down enough to get moving and catch some fish. Not twenty feet upstream from the "swimming pool" was a smaller pool, banked by huge boulders on all sides and covered by a canopy of spring greenery. I had sense enough at the time to sneak up on my quarry and managed to find a spot hidden from the pool where I could sit with a pint and relax while I scanned for risers. I barely had a gulp of beer down before I saw my first sign of life. A trout rose in a flash from the bottom, swirled, and engulfed a small sulfur. It was the type of rise that says, "throw me your sloppiest, splashiest cast and I’ll still eat the fly". I sat there for maybe a minute or two, slammed half my beer and then slinked down the the tail of the pool. I took position where could peer over a boulder and pick my victim. The fish were rising sporadically but persistently and before too long I let loose with my cast. The 9 foot cane rod was huge for this stream but handled the line beautifully. My cast dropped perfectly on the water. Of course, like in any good fishing story, the fish rose from the bottom gnashed down on the fly and headed for deeper water. I heaved back, set the hook, and proceeded to land my first North Carolina Brookie. I have since felt similiar emotions, but only rarely, and only when something happens that makes me think "it could *never*  get any better than this". McCray

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It took me a while to remember the first one, even tho it was less than 3 years ago.  I had to refer back to old messages & posts to finally pin it down.  The first one for me also represented another milestone, of sorts: it was without any ambiguity the smallest striped bass I have ever seen, somewhere around 9 inches or so.  It took a 10 and a half foot 9 weight to tame him  :-) I thought maybe this story would inspire a thread of stories about everyones first fish caught on a fly. I’m sure there are many stories out there that stick in peoples memories.

Response:

Hippy chicks are not shy about their love of the sun, and rarely turn down a cold beer. Oh yeah, so on a sunny April afternoon, I strapped the rod to the bike…

Yeah, I hear dat….

Response:

   Although, not my first fish on a fly, there is one trout that sticks out in my mind as a defining moment in my fishing career.

        boys, i have fished for thirty years in the blue ridge, and i have seen exactly three folks who can do it as well as this guy. thanks for pulling back the veil on your first time, mccrayfish.         the down side is, it will get much tougher the older you get. the blue ridge is not a gentle partner. your friend in the old north state wayno

Response:

I got my brand new fly fishing gear as a gift from my wife for Christmas in the way of an Orvis gift certificate. Eager to get out on the water, not haveing fly fished before, I took my gear to the local pond to practice my casting. Went well, nice open space after several cast seemed to have the hang of it. A couple of weeks later went to fish at Valley Creek here in PA. This stream is a class A Wild Trout stream that is very difficult to fish. Spent the afternoon untageling my line from trees and loosing several nymph flies. But today, 2 days after the first snow storm in the Philadelphia area, I had the urge to get out and try my rod again. Went back to the same stream because I know at this time of year this was my best shot to catch something. Within minutes of getting to the stream I found a "honey hole" 4 feet deep and filled with trout, after an hour of casting a hares ear nymph, I guessed that I had spooked all the fish because of my line slapping the water, or getting caught in fallen leaves, or snaging rocks, so I decided to move upstream and hope to find another hole like this one. 3 hours later, after a mile of walking upstream and not seeing a single fish, I decided it was time to call it a day. With my tail between my legs I walked back towards the honey hole where my car was parked. I decided before I go in I would just make a couple more casts hopeing the fish came back. As I lifted my line a felt a tug, prepared to lose another fly, I lifted my rod tip a lo and behold "FISH ON". A beutiful 10 inch brown, not a big fish, but a fish that will stay in my mind forever. The first fish of the year, and on a fly, it just doesn’t get much better than that. I thought maybe this story would inspire a thread of stories about everyones first fish caught on a fly. I’m sure there are many stories out there that stick in peoples memories.

Response:

 With my tail between my legs I walked back towards the honey hole where my car was parked. I decided before I go in I would just make a couple more casts hopeing the fish came back. As I lifted my line a felt a tug, prepared to lose another fly, I lifted my rod tip a lo and behold "FISH ON". A beutiful 10 inch brown, not a big fish, but a fish that will stay in my mind forever. The first fish of the year, and on a fly, it just doesn’t get much better than that. I thought maybe this story would inspire a thread of stories about everyones first fish caught on a fly. I’m sure there are many stories out there that stick in peoples memories.

        well, with deepest regret i must admit that your story is far more heroic than mine.         i signed up to work for a law firm in greensboro, nc, in the fall of 1969.  one of the partners was a guy who is still one of my best friends, a yankee from uptstate new york, around the roscoe area. i had fished with a fly rod since i was 9 or 10, but only for warm water fish.  he suggested a trip to the catskills, and there we were: the beaverkill, the willowemoc, harry darby, walt dette, all that yankee folklore…and it was really neat.  but the first fish i caught was a 6 inch brown, hauled in on the end of a muddler minnow, on the east branch of the delaware, a long way from the crystal waters that would become my home, just a year or so from then.  but that’s another story, with another friend. wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

"Carlos Figueroa" wrote… I thought maybe this story would inspire a thread of stories about everyones first fish caught on a fly. I’m sure there are many stories out there that stick in peoples memories.

Your story is better than mine.  The first fish I caught on a fly was a 3" Bluegill 23 years ago.  But I can safely say it’s been all up hill from there. Joel Axelrad **DFD**

Response:

    My first was a ten inch brook trout on a size 8 hopper. I was lucky enough to spend my younger years in a town with many good trout streams within biking distance, and caught this one on a little spring creek that ran behind the IGA.     It was great growing up with 3 trout streams within 15min bike ride of my house, and once I got the hang of the fly rod, there were some dandy Bull trout to be had. With the ban on bulls in Alberta, I’d bet some of my old fishin’ grounds have some dandy bulls (Although I once found a dead 34" bull under the bridge, so even then there were some hogs).     Robbie

Response:

Question:

Anyone ever read the Randall Kaufmann book  "Lake Fishing with a Fly" or the Deke Meyer book "Float Tube Fly Fishing"?  What do you think?  Are they useful books?

Response:

I will state right off the bat that I am biased by having Randall as a close and valued friend. Lake Fishing with a fly is an excellent book, in my opinion, as it peels away some of the layers of mystery many anglers have concerning "Stillwater". (Misnomer of a term, but anyway) Many anglers are intimidated by a seemingly large flat expanse of water in front of them and the idea of "reading’ water is often the biggest challenge.. simply just knowing where to start the biggest challenge. As a result most just sort of give up and flail away at the nearest section of lake shore awaiting a hungry fish. Lake Fishing with a fly provides invaluable information that breaks down lakes and explains them so we can understand them in a way akin to a stream or river. There is a wealth of information and closely followed the book will help any angler be more successful in catching trout in lakes. I highly recommend it. The Mike Stidham illustrations are outstanding too. Just my thoughts, others may disagree. I haven’t read Deke Meyers Book. Clark

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone ever read the Randall Kaufmann book  "Lake Fishing with a Fly" or the Deke Meyer book "Float Tube Fly Fishing"?  What do you think?  Are they useful books?

Response:

Anyone ever read the Randall Kaufmann book  "Lake Fishing with a Fly" or the Deke Meyer book "Float Tube Fly Fishing"?  What do you think?  Are they useful books?

Greetings Rob:   I’ve read Kaufmann’s _Lake Fishing with a Fly_, and I think it’s a pretty good read.  Good basic information, and written in a style I enjoy.  I also like Kaufmann’s fly tying books, FWIW. ‘Sorry, I’m not familiar with the other book.   Cheers, and happy reading.  -Mark

Response:

I have read them both. They are both good books, but I think serve different niches. Just a point, "Lake Fishing With A Fly" was written by Ron Cordes and Randall Kaufmann. The Deke Meyer book has some good informaiton on alpine fishing. It covers a lot of species I never fish for, such as bass and bluegill (we don’t have ‘em up here), so it use is somewhat limited for me. Also, it has a pretty limited section on flies. It does have some good tips on useing float tubes. The Cordes and Kaufmann boolk has more information about trout. Very limited informaiton on float tubes, but good general infomation on fishing techniques. It has some color plates, a good discussion of trout food, etc. If trout is what you are after, this would be the better book. My personal preference for a stillwater fishing book is Morris and Chan on Fly Fishing Trout Lakes. Tjhis has very good information, the infomation is organized well, and the book has very nice color photos. It has very good inforamtion on water craft, and lots of nice fly patterns. This book has become my personal favorite for lake fishing. Tim Lysyk

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone ever read the Randall Kaufmann book  "Lake Fishing with a Fly" or the Deke Meyer book "Float Tube Fly Fishing"?  What do you think?  Are they useful books?

Response:

If you can find a copy in your area "The Ghillie" has become the bible of still water trouting in British Columbia. It has excellent sections on fishing all of the still water hatches. Al.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have read them both. They are both good books, but I think serve different niches. Just a point, "Lake Fishing With A Fly" was written by Ron Cordes and Randall Kaufmann. The Deke Meyer book has some good informaiton on alpine fishing. It covers a lot of species I never fish for, such as bass and bluegill (we don’t have ‘em up here), so it use is somewhat limited for me. Also, it has a pretty limited section on flies. It does have some good tips on useing float tubes. The Cordes and Kaufmann boolk has more information about trout. Very limited informaiton on float tubes, but good general infomation on fishing techniques. It has some color plates, a good discussion of trout food, etc. If trout is what you are after, this would be the better book. My personal preference for a stillwater fishing book is Morris and Chan on Fly Fishing Trout Lakes. Tjhis has very good information, the infomation is organized well, and the book has very nice color photos. It has very good inforamtion on water craft, and lots of nice fly patterns. This book has become my personal favorite for lake fishing. Tim Lysyk Anyone ever read the Randall Kaufmann book  "Lake Fishing with a Fly" or the Deke Meyer book "Float Tube Fly Fishing"?  What do you think?  Are they useful books?

Response:

Question:

The way a fish takes a nymph has to do with a number of different things including what nymphs the fish are feeding on, the depth they’re feeding

Here’s an example from about two weeks ago.  I was fishing an unweighted wooly bugger.  Bass would not hit a swimming bugger.  All our hits came as we were distracted and had let our flies sink to the bottom.  Then as we lifted our rods to begin the backcast, that’s when the largemouth bass would strike.  I had noticed plenty of drake shucks floating around and when I got home read in Dick Pobst’s Trout Stream Insects (Orvis Streamside Guide form Lyons Press) to imitate the green drake nymph by lifting it from the bottom of slackwater.   Mu

Response:

Mu Young Lee wrote… Here’s an example from about two weeks ago.  I was fishing an unweighted wooly bugger.  Bass would not hit a swimming bugger.  All our hits came as we were distracted and had let our flies sink to the bottom.

Hey, that’s great news because I get easily distracted. Or at least that’s what my wife tells me. She was telling me that just last week while we were outside in the yard… Wait, what was I talking about? –Steve

Response:

One technique I can suggest to you that is just a small variation on the tight line system you’re trying out. No bobber required!! It is an up, down and across presentation. The same or similar terminal rig as you’re using with your tight line system. The difference is that you need to keep an almost tight line, instead of a tight one. It does require quite a bit of mending, line retrieval etc. to keep the flies along the bottom and still have some contact with them.  The takes are usually pretty apparent either visually or by feel. You do need to vary the amount of weight with each new area you fish. I like this technique for big heavy water, especially in water with good stonefly populations.

Sounds similar to what I intend to do on the weekend.  We’ll see what happens. I do too, but over a season, don’t you take more fish on a dry fished drag free? I think the same holds true for nymphs.

Yes, I just like to try different methods. Since you’re a good streamer fisherman and know that technique well, I’m sure you’ll get some fish on nymphs fished in the same manner. Personally, I’d like to watch you fish streamers. I’ve never had the chance to fish with someone or watch someone effectively fish streamers to stream trout. Don’t see many people flinging streamers in the Rockies. Willi

My wife and I are hoping to get to the Grand Canyon in 2 or 3 years, so unless in the meantime the Avs meet the Leafs in the playoffs, we may get our chance then. Peter

Response:

Despite the lack of hookups, one of the outcomes of the test, was the proof that we miss many strikes in typical bobber nymphing.  No way would I have detected some 20+ strikes in that water with a bobber. All true, however my tests are an attempt to challenge the conventional wisdom of nymphing, mainly ’cause it bores me to tears and I’m not very good at it (not necessarily in that order.)

Dead drifting nymphs in all its many variations, is the most effective and consistent way to catch trout in moving water, but it is not much fun if you’re doing it right unless you’re a madly possessed trout hunter. That’s why I do less and less of it, my mad possession is a thing of the distant past. Dead drifting nymphs requires alot of physical work, terminal tackle changing, concentration, etc. etc. etc. and because I do less and less of it, I’m not as good at it as I used to be. One technique I can suggest to you that is just a small variation on the tight line system you’re trying out. No bobber required!! It is an up, down and across presentation. The same or similar terminal rig as you’re using with your tight line system. The difference is that you need to keep an almost tight line, instead of a tight one. It does require quite a bit of mending, line retrieval etc. to keep the flies along the bottom and still have some contact with them.  The takes are usually pretty apparent either visually or by feel. You do need to vary the amount of weight with each new area you fish. I like this technique for big heavy water, especially in water with good stonefly populations. My test of swimming Hendricksons in slow water proved to me that fish also react quickly and aggressively to moving food even under conditions that enable them to get a good look at the imitation.  The taut line was no problem due to the aggressive take.  BTW, I frequently drag or skitter dries and pick up the odd fish, especially when it’s windy.

I do too, but over a season, don’t you take more fish on a dry fished drag free? I think the same holds true for nymphs. My test was conducted in some fairly heavy current and stained water so by rights, the fish should have been taking aggressively but I think the combo of a broadside presentation of a scud hook and taut line screwed me.  (The Hendricksons were mostly taken from behind.) Anyway, I still consider the test partially successful as it taught me a few things. Hoepfully on the weekend I’ll get a chance to try out the wobble nymphs on a typical streamer swing through the same water.  We’ll see what happens.

Since you’re a good streamer fisherman and know that technique well, I’m sure you’ll get some fish on nymphs fished in the same manner. Personally, I’d like to watch you fish streamers. I’ve never had the chance to fish with someone or watch someone effectively fish streamers to stream trout. Don’t see many people flinging streamers in the Rockies. Willi

Response:

As the nymph enters  she clamps down for probably two reasons, one she must be sure it’s  a nymph not debris, plus she has to kill it.  Nymphs can have  pretty good jaws, especially the big ones, and they can give a good nip.

Interesting, never occurred to me…. it does make you wonder what they think of the hook though, when they mouth it… So if I purposely design a mayfly nymph with the same characteristics of weight and eye placement, I should get the same wobble giving a reasonable facsimile of a swimming nymph.

I’ve seen video footage of nymphs tied in this manner moving in the water, and the wobbling action does look impressive.  Another thing you can do is check into the nymph hooks that have split wire near the eye that create a wide flat body.  Example: www.flytying.com/FlyTying/hookbook/xPARTRIDGE_MASTER/partridgeH3S T.html I haven’t tried this yet, but you got me interested again! * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

good post deleted. My experience is that with any tight line technique ( I assume you are talking about tight line technique and not a true dead drift one ), lots of fish are missed. Most of the fish you do hook, generally hook themselves. I also don’t find scud hooks as having the best hooking characteristics. That would explain quite a few misses but not 0 for 20 or 30. I think the main reason for the missed strikes is the presence of the tight line itself. Nymphs do not pull back and if they do, they are rejected quickly. This is ONE of the advantages to fishing a true dead drifted nymph.   The way a fish takes a nymph has to do with a number of different things including what nymphs the fish are feeding on, the depth they’re feeding at etc., but I believe the biggest factor is the speed and type of water. In pockets water and the heavy flows at the heads of pools, the strikes are quick and sharp.  This makes it much easier to fool and hook the fish. Fly selection is usually not very important. These are the same waters that work well with attractor dries. In areas of more sedate current, the nymphs are usually taken in a patient, manner allowing the fish to scrutinize the fly. This can result in more bumps, refusals, rejections, etc. and more missed strikes, very similar to "fussy" fish on a dry. I think the comparison to fishing dries holds true in other ways. Usually dead drifted dries are more effective than flies with drag or motion. The same applies to nymphs. Most nymphs are taken when they are drifting with the current, not when they are swimming. Caddis and stoneflies are the most frequent exceptions because the nymphs can be active swimmers and the adults active on the surface. Although a dead drifted nymph or dry may lack the movement trigger to elicit a strike, it will never be seen as unnatural. Drag or motion on a dry or a nymph will often be seen by the trout as unnatural. Willi

Response:

Although a dead drifted nymph or dry may lack the movement trigger to elicit a strike, it will never be seen as unnatural. Drag or motion on a dry or a nymph will often be seen by the trout as unnatural.

Willi, I agree drag is unnatural, but I don’t think Peter’s example of "wobbling" is unnatural, do you?  He was talking about "swimming" nymphs, but when you think about a flat bodied nymph, I think these do it too.  Is something like a Hare’s Ear really the best imitation?  It’s basically tied "round" – i.e. no matter which angle the trout sees it from, it appears broad, as if it were always seeing the broad, flat side of a natural.  That might be why it works.  But tying it to be shaped like a natural might give it a little wobbling motion.  Seems good to me. * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – good post deleted. My experience is that with any tight line technique ( I assume you are talking about tight line technique and not a true dead drift one ), lots of fish are missed. Most of the fish you do hook, generally hook themselves. I also don’t find scud hooks as having the best hooking characteristics. That would explain quite a few misses but not 0 for 20 or 30. I think the main reason for the missed strikes is the presence of the tight line itself. Nymphs do not pull back and if they do, they are rejected quickly. This is ONE of the advantages to fishing a true dead drifted nymph.  

My original post was supposed to have a few sentences that explained that I had built the leader, added weight and the bead head precisely to get as taut a line as possible.  I knew that the taut line contributed to the problem.  I wrote this Friday night at my bro-in-law’s after numerous beers so I plead guilty to TWI.   Despite the lack of hookups, one of the outcomes of the test, was the proof that we miss many strikes in typical bobber nymphing.  No way would I have detected some 20+ strikes in that water with a bobber. The way a fish takes a nymph has to do with a number of different things including what nymphs the fish are feeding on, the depth they’re feeding at etc., but I believe the biggest factor is the speed and type of water. In pockets water and the heavy flows at the heads of pools, the strikes are quick and sharp.  This makes it much easier to fool and hook the fish. Fly selection is usually not very important. These are the same waters that work well with attractor dries. In areas of more sedate current, the nymphs are usually taken in a patient, manner allowing the fish to scrutinize the fly. This can result in more bumps, refusals, rejections, etc. and more missed strikes, very similar to "fussy" fish on a dry.

All true, however my tests are an attempt to challenge the conventional wisdom of nymphing, mainly ’cause it bores me to tears and I’m not very good at it (not necessarily in that order.)  My test of swimming Hendricksons in slow water proved to me that fish also react quickly and aggressively to moving food even under conditions that enable them to get a good look at the imitation.  The taut line was no problem due to the aggressive take.  BTW, I frequently drag or skitter dries and pick up the odd fish, especially when it’s windy. My test was conducted in some fairly heavy current and stained water so by rights, the fish should have been taking aggressively but I think the combo of a broadside presentation of a scud hook and taut line screwed me.  (The Hendricksons were mostly taken from behind.) Anyway, I still consider the test partially successful as it taught me a few things. I think the comparison to fishing dries holds true in other ways. Usually dead drifted dries are more effective than flies with drag or motion. The same applies to nymphs. Most nymphs are taken when they are drifting with the current, not when they are swimming. Caddis and stoneflies are the most frequent exceptions because the nymphs can be active swimmers and the adults active on the surface. Although a dead drifted nymph or dry may lack the movement trigger to elicit a strike, it will never be seen as unnatural. Drag or motion on a dry or a nymph will often be seen by the trout as unnatural. Willi

Hoepfully on the weekend I’ll get a chance to try out the wobble nymphs on a typical streamer swing through the same water.  We’ll see what happens. Peter

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Some time back I wrote a piece about straight-line nymphing and about how I had a phenomenal hit rate and an abysmal hookup rate.  I swear that in one run I must have had something like 20 for 0 or 30 for 0 strikes to hookups.  I had a method that would enable me to detect strikes but I couldn’t hookup worth a damn.  Talk about frustration so I’ve put the method aside.  Two things have occurred since that have set me to thinking about straight-line nymphing again; I read that post Sandy put out about soft-bodied nymphs and my failure with a crayfish design that wobbled like a Red Devil on the retrieve.  These two events have given me a clue into a new type of fishing that could prove very successful. (I hope.)  I’m in the middle of my northern NT trip and with nothing to do on the long trip to Timmins, so I’m doing my best to use the time productively <g to try and figure out why my straight-line nymphing was a failure.  I’m not a biologist and I’ve never talked to one about this so read the following with that proviso.  I’ve been trying to visualize how a trout takes a nymph. A trout resting in her lie doesn’t really have to work hard for dinner.  The whole process must be a relaxed affair compared to a bass chasing and inhaling a minnow.  As a nymph drifts toward the lie, she slides out and slightly opens her mouth.  As the nymph enters she clamps down for probably two reasons, one she must be sure it’s a nymph not debris, plus she has to kill it.  Nymphs can have pretty good jaws, especially the big ones, and they can give a good nip.  So she slides back into her lie with the nymph, chomps it once or twice more, runs it over her tongue as a final check, and only then swallows it.  This is the key to Sandy’s foam nymphs, as a hard nymph will be rejected as phony after a couple of chomps.  It also explains why I couldn’t get hookups.  I was fishing with a tungsten bead head caddis tied on a scud hook.  This hook has a thick wire, large gape and short shank plus the bead and the firmly wound body were rock hard. Straight-line nymphing will present the fly broadside to the trout. So when a trout took it, the hook point probably hit its lower jaw and the fly canted sideways, so when the trout clamped down, the hook point was outside of its mouth.  I’ve seen smallmouth take a slow moving woolly bugger the same way.  Plus, if I delayed the hookset, the trout would reject the hard nymph.  So if I’m to get a nymph to work on a straight-line swing, the point has to get inside the trout’s mouth.  That means a small gape, long shank, thin wire hook.  It would also help if the trout would take it like a streamer – with gusto. Mayfly nymphs come in three varieties, burrowing, clinging, and swimming.  Burrowing nymphs, like Hexes, favour soft, silty, slow moving sections of rivers and only become active in low light, dusk, or at night, consequently they don’t give us much opportunity to exploit except during emergence.  Clinging mayfly nymphs and most stoneflies crawl about rocks and only infrequently move in open water except when migrating to emerge.  When a clinging nymph wants to move and find a new feeding spot, they release their hold on a rock and allow themselves to be swept along in the current, swimming only a little.  These are the most common nymphs that we imitate when we dead drift.  Some species time their moves so that an entire section of a river has all of one species of nymph drifting at about the same time. An effective strategy for reducing casualties to marauding trout. These trout have very flat bodies and strong, thick legs suitable clinging to rocks.  The third type of nymphs however, are excellent swimmers with elegant, long, thin bodies and thin swimming legs. These mayflies swim with an arched back and an undulating side-to-side motion that wriggle nymphs unsuccessfully try to imitate.  Unlike clingers, these nymphs should be moved to be lifelike.  A down-and-across streamer swing with a few small strips should do the job. Recently, I tried swimming Hendrickson nymphs and I was pleasantly surprised with the aggression that trout displayed when taking them. No subtle takes this time and the hookup rate was very high.  So if I combine a good swimming nymph pattern with a swinging presentation, the results should be good.  Back to the crayfish pattern.  I had used a jig hook and had weighted the shank near the gape.  On the retrieve, the combination of the upraised eye and low set weight resulted in the fly flipping over and wobbling like an old Red Devil.  So if I purposely design a mayfly nymph with the same characteristics of weight and eye placement, I should get the same wobble giving a reasonable facsimile of a swimming nymph.  Well, wish me luck with it, as once I’ve got over the worst of the NT install, I’m going to tie up some and swing them through some Grand River runs.

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Question:

: Many years ago, when Goretex first came out, my wife and I bought two top : of the line sets of rain gear.  We would be soaked after standing in the : rain fishing all day.  We took them back and have not used Goretex again : (using rubber instead).  But, is the product really waterproof today….and : I mean standing or walking all day in a good Oregon rain.  I still mean a : really good, expensive set.  Please advise.  Thanks. :   : Fred Rickson I had a similar experience with some Gortex Atlantis raingear I bought about 20 years ago.  It never was water resistent let alone water proof.  I have several other later pieces of Gortex gear which are much better. :   :   — Isaac(Ike) B. Wilder That’s my story and I’m sticking to it.

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Well, my goretex waders work. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Many years ago, when Goretex first came out, my wife and I bought two top of the line sets of rain gear.  We would be soaked after standing in the rain fishing all day.  We took them back and have not used Goretex again (using rubber instead).  But, is the product really waterproof today….and I mean standing or walking all day in a good Oregon rain.  I still mean a really good, expensive set.  Please advise.  Thanks. Fred Rickson

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Well, my goretex waders work. Many years ago, when Goretex first came out, my wife and I bought two top of the line sets of rain gear.  We would be soaked after standing in the rain fishing all day.  We took them back and have not used Goretex again (using rubber instead).  But, is the product really waterproof today….and I mean standing or walking all day in a good Oregon rain.  I still mean a really good, expensive set.  Please advise.  Thanks. Fred Rickson

Hi All, The original Gore-Tex became contaminated or dirty and then leaked. That was many years ago. Now they have Gore-Tex jackets, pants, gloves, hats, boots and waders. It now has an anti-contamination feature that really made the difference. Gore-Tex, like many long term products has gone through many evolutions. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY www.kiene.com

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Fred,     My wife bought me for Christmas an Orvis Gortex wading jacket. Since that time I have used it on the rivers and lakes from Nova Scotia to Newfoundland. Throughout that period I encountered everything from steady and heavy downpours to biting cold snow squalls. The jacket performed superably trough all and I am continually thanking her for this purchase. The coat has no yet soaked through, though I will say that it does get "heavy" with water after several hours of standing in the rain. The nice aspect of the Orvis coat is that they put an unconditional five year guarantee on the jacket for everything from barbwire tears to leakage…either way they fix or replace. I think some of the other coats on the market such as Simms, Patagonia, LL Bean and even Cabelas own name brand wading jacket are all good quality. Yes, Gortex has improved alot since when it was first marketed. Hope this helps. Cheers, Colin Dartmouth, NS

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writes: will easily keep you dry and comfortable in the worst Oregon weather (I lived in Oregon from 1976 to 1987). You didn’t spend all that time living in Ontario or Baker City…did you?

No, I lived in Troutdale and then in Sandy (east of Portland towards Mt. Hood). The main drawback with Gore-tex is the price – they are spendy.  The performance now is superb.  If you’re still worried about getting stuck, just be sure to buy from a company or a dealer that has a 100% satisfaction guarantee. Have you spent all day walking in a brush field?? In western Oregon?? Does it work then??  If I spend that much money it really needs to work in a situation other than downtown Portland or a tourist on a rainy day walk on a trail.  Thanks.

The rivers I primarily fished were the Sandy, the Clackamas (main stem and North Fork), the Salmon, Eagle Creek (the one near Estacada), and  the North Umpqua.    Once in a blue moon I’d fish the Wilson or the Trask.  Also fished the Deschutes, the Williamson, Fort Creek, Spring creek, and Squaw Creek in Southern and Central Oregon.  The GPS-2 standard Gore-tex such as the Orvis Tailwaters wading jacket will easily hold up to this type of use.                       Good Fishing,                          Dan Dan Gracia Orvis

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[deleted] The rivers I primarily fished were the Sandy, the Clackamas (main stem and North Fork), the Salmon, Eagle Creek (the one near Estacada), and  the North Umpqua.    Once in a blue moon I’d fish the Wilson or the Trask.  Also fished the Deschutes, the Williamson, Fort Creek, Spring creek, and Squaw Creek in Southern and Central Oregon.  The GPS-2 standard Gore-tex such as the Orvis Tailwaters wading jacket will easily hold up to this type of use.

Not me man…I’m staying right in my dry and warm living room until the GPS-3’s are actually shipping….I can’t believe you actually fished the Eagle in a GPS-2…what were you thinking man ? What kind of waders do you have for those massive balls of yours to even try such a stunt ? — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "Guilt replaced the creel…"

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Many years ago, when Goretex first came out, my wife and I bought two top of the line sets of rain gear.  We would be soaked after standing in the rain fishing all day.  We took them back and have not used Goretex again (using rubber instead).  But, is the product really waterproof today….and I mean standing or walking all day in a good Oregon rain.  I still mean a really good, expensive set.  Please advise.  Thanks.

Your right about first generation gore-tex being of poor quality… WL Gore acted quickly to fix these problems completely though..My first set of Gore-Tex raingear was 3rd generation and hasn’t leaked a bit, and my new wading jacket (Cabella’s Gore-Tex) is incredible… — Chris Schmelzer, MS-2 Medical College of Wisconsin Milwaukee, WI 53208

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I wasn’t going to say anything, since the subject was "GoreTex" per se, but I have been absolutely overjoyed with the "Dry Plus" jacket I bought from Cabellas for about half what the competition wanted. Now I want their waders in the same fabric. Again, very competitively priced. Look good, and my wife wants to wear my stuff… Good luck. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Many years ago, when Goretex first came out, my wife and I bought two top of the line sets of rain gear.  We would be soaked after standing in the rain fishing all day.  We took them back and have not used Goretex again (using rubber instead).  But, is the product really waterproof today….and I mean standing or walking all day in a good Oregon rain.  I still mean a really good, expensive set.  Please advise.  Thanks. Your right about first generation gore-tex being of poor quality… WL Gore acted quickly to fix these problems completely though..My first set of Gore-Tex raingear was 3rd generation and hasn’t leaked a bit, and my new wading jacket (Cabella’s Gore-Tex) is incredible… — Chris Schmelzer, MS-2 Medical College of Wisconsin Milwaukee, WI 53208

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will easily keep you dry and comfortable in the worst Oregon weather (I lived in Oregon from 1976 to 1987).

You didn’t spend all that time living in Ontario or Baker City…did you?  The main drawback with Gore-tex is the price – they are spendy.  The performance now is superb.  If you’re still worried about getting stuck, just be sure to buy from a company or a dealer that has a 100% satisfaction guarantee.

Have you spent all day walking in a brush field?? In western Oregon?? Does it work then??  If I spend that much money it really needs to work in a situation other than downtown Portland or a tourist on a rainy day walk on a trail.  Thanks. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Many years ago, when Goretex first came out, my wife and I bought two top of the line sets of rain gear.  We would be soaked after standing in the rain fishing all day.  We took them back and have not used Goretex again (using rubber instead).  But, is the product really waterproof today….and I mean standing or walking all day in a good Oregon rain.  I still mean a really good, expensive set.  Please advise.  Thanks.

Hi Fred, When Gore-tex first came out lots of people made waterproof rain gear out of it.  A lot of them didn’t know what they were doing and either didn’t seal the seams, or sealed them correctly.  Gore-tex got a real black eye from this and they quickly changed their licensing agreements so people couldn’t call it Gore-tex if they didn’t follow the Gore-tex approved construction methods. This made a huge difference and they started rebuilding their reputation. However, Gore-tex still had some problems with salt and dirt clogging it up, and also had a problem with some chemicals.  About 7 years ago they came out with a second generation Gore-tex that is not bothered by either.  The current Gore-tex is an expanded PTFE membrane and works great.  When it gets dirty, you wash it with Tide.  When water stops beading up on the outer fabric (typical with heavy use after 5 or 6 years), you re-treat the outer fabric with Tectron or Scotchguard.  Even if the outer fabric loses its DWR (Durable Water Repellancy) and gets completely waterlogged, you still won’t get wet.  You may feel like you’re wet because the water is flush up against the membrane when the outer fabric’s DWR is gone, but when you take it off, you’re dry.  Re-new the DWR as needed for best comfort. Gore-tex has a couple of "water repellancy" standards they test designs against.  The most stringent is the GPS2 standard.  The North Face, Marmot, and a number of other  backpacking equipment manufacturers have designs that meet this standard.  Orvis has a Gore-tex fishing jacket called the Tailwater’s Wading Jacket that is GPS2 certified.  Any products that meet this standard will easily keep you dry and comfortable in the worst Oregon weather (I lived in Oregon from 1976 to 1987).  The main drawback with Gore-tex is the price – they are spendy.  The performance now is superb.  If you’re still worried about getting stuck, just be sure to buy from a company or a dealer that has a 100% satisfaction guarantee.                        Hope this helps,                            Dan Dan Gracia Orvis

Response:

Fred Rickson schrieb in Nachricht Many years ago, when Goretex first came out, my wife and I bought two top of the line sets of rain gear.  We would be soaked after standing in the rain fishing all day.  We took them back and have not used Goretex again (using rubber instead).  But, is the product really waterproof today….and I mean standing or walking all day in a good Oregon rain.  I still mean a really good, expensive set.  Please advise.  Thanks. Fred Rickson

Hi Fred, I had the same problem, my wife and I bought two very expensive Goretex fishing jackets which we were told was the best there is , we used them a couple of times and then took them back,because we were soaked after an hour or so of solid rain, the dealer said he couldnt understand it, but wouldnt take them back.  I would never buy this stuff again. We now have Sympatex jackets, which are lighter, cheaper and WATERPROOF ! Tight lines ! Mike Connor

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We now have Sympatex jackets, which are lighter, cheaper and WATERPROOF !

I don’t have anything against Gore-Tex, but I agree that Sympatex is lighter, cheaper and more comfortable to wear.  I also have a "Triple Point Ceramic" anorak made by Lowe Alpine that is impervious to wind and rain and is (IMHO) the ultimate for hiking, fishing, etc., in bad conditions. Dan

Response:

Many years ago, when Goretex first came out, my wife and I bought two top of the line sets of rain gear.  We would be soaked after standing in the rain fishing all day.  We took them back and have not used Goretex again (using rubber instead).  But, is the product really waterproof today….and I mean standing or walking all day in a good Oregon rain.  I still mean a really good, expensive set.  Please advise.  Thanks. Fred Rickson

Response:

Question:

Can anyone tell me when and where are the 1998 East Coast wholesale dealer trade shows rumrunner

Response:

Can anyone tell me when and where are the 1998 East Coast wholesale dealer trade shows rumrunner

There are no wholesale trade shows in the east that I’m aware of – just the IFTD and NAFTA shows in Denver and Salt Lake City. — Best regards, Dave Visit Dave Teffeteller’s Fly Fishing Guides Home Page http://www.olfart.com

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Let me know if you get an answer…interested too. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Can anyone tell me when and where are the 1998 East Coast wholesale dealer trade shows rumrunner

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Question:

I would appreciate any recommendations from people on good places to stay in Montana for a week in August. Wishes are: reasonably close to good fly fishing, right on or near some water would be excellent; a cabin with some personality and a kitchen in a somewhat private, open setting (not a town); fairly quiet with a small number of other guests; prefer moderate price, premium price for perfect spot OK. I’m open to any location in Montana, but am somewhat familiar to Twin Bridges area and liked it a lot. Also liked fishing in Yellowstone Park rivers so near that might be good. Have not fished Big Hole, hear I should. Any suggestions very much appreciated. Thank you. AWilson

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I would appreciate any recommendations from people on good places to stay in Montana for a week in August.

August is generally (but of course not ALWAYS) the worst month of the year. It’s hot, and the water levels are low, and the fish  (specially browns) are in a nocturnal phase then. August should be particularly skunky this year, as we have an anemic, El Nino snow pack–Utah and Colorado got all our snow.     At that time of year, the best fishing is at high altitude: beaver ponds, small brook trout creeks and mountain lakes. —  * Center for Computational Biology  * Montana State Bozeman  (406) 994-7061  * http://www.nervana.montana.edu/~sandy */

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Question:

Does anybody how the fishing is there right now. Jay

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Should be good – no snow around yet Mo — British Columbia &  Western Canada Information at = http://www.cvnet.net/modrew/Index.htm ;o) delete "nospam" to e-mail me – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anybody how the fishing is there right now. Jay

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for what? With the exception of the Yakoun the best steelhead runs are usually late in the Winter. All the coho are either dead or a lovely combination of cherry red and cream coloured fungus. Might be ok for cutts and dollies using glo-bugs or streamers in some of the lakes – but I’d check the reg’s first as I’m not sure if they are even open. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Should be good – no snow around yet Mo — British Columbia &  Western Canada Information at = http://www.cvnet.net/modrew/Index.htm ;o) delete "nospam" to e-mail me Does anybody how the fishing is there right now. Jay

Ralph H remove "(take_this_out)" for email reply.

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Question:

I’ll be in Livingston, Montana Thanksgiving week.  Would like any recommendations on fishing in the area that time of year.  I know it’s cold, but being a steelheader, I don’t mind.  Thanks. Donald Albrecht A bad day fishing is still better than a good day at work!  <  <

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: I’ll be in Livingston, Montana Thanksgiving week.  Would like any : recommendations on fishing in the area that time of year.  I know it’s : cold, but being a steelheader, I don’t mind.  Thanks. I think you misspelled "…being a steelheader, I don’t *have* a mind". — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

DEAR DON:         Stop in and see my good friend John Bailey and/or the gang there.  They will not only help you, they will tell you what the action is, but where to go.  You  couldn’t ask for a better place to stop in.  It’s the same old location called "DAN BAILEY’S".  Hope this helps you Don. Sincerely, George Gehrke/Mr. Gink

Response:

: I’ll be in Livingston, Montana Thanksgiving week.  Would like any : recommendations on fishing in the area that time of year.  I know it’s : cold, but being a steelheader, I don’t mind.  Thanks. I think you misspelled "…being a steelheader, I don’t *have* a mind". — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

Response:

I’ll be in Livingston, Montana Thanksgiving week.  Would like any recommendations on fishing in the area that time of year.  I know it’s cold, but being a steelheader, I don’t mind.  Thanks. Donald Albrecht

Hi Donald, The Yellowstone River should be good.  If your travel is limited then fish around the 9th Street island right in town.  It can be real good.   Another place to check out would be the fishing access site at Springdale.  Fish streamers down stream from there.  If you really want to get a feel for the river get the book Fly Fishing the Yellowstone River by Tom Travis & Rod Walinchus.  It covers the River from the Park to Billings and has suggestions for all months of the year. OR call Tom at his store The Master Angler 406-222-2273.  You can either get information or a book, maybe both.  Good luck and have lots of streams and warm clothes.  The fishing can be real hot and the weather the opposite. — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (97 catalog) http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

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Question:

Planning a visit to some friends in the Bolinas/Stinson Beach area early in April.  Thought I’d take my flyrod.  Anybody have any suggestions?  I’d be interested in fishing surf or small streams or anything in between, as long as it was close to Bolinas. Thanks, David

There’s a lake in the Point Reyes National Seashore that allegedly has some trout in it (Bass Lake), although I don’t know anyone who has actually fished it. Lagunitas Lake in the Marin Municipal Water District is stocked and artificial lures, no barbs, only. Some of the other lakes in the same area attract lots of bait fisherman. No stream fishing available in the area that I know of. Surf fishing with a fly rod?  Can’t say I’ve ever seen it done, but can’t say I’ve been looking either. Closest stream fishing (steelhead) would be the Russian River. — There is no such thing as a dumb question, but there IS such a thing as a dumb answer – I’ve given some.

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Try the small gas station / fishing shop on the road between Petaluma and Bodega.  George will tell you about fishing the area -especially Tomales bay.  Look on the map for Walker Ck.- which is a misnomer, but hal local currency.  If he is in the phone book, idt will be on BOdega Hiway, I athink. He is guiding on athe Russian R as well. Regards, Cliff

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suggestions?  I’d be interested in fishing surf or small streams or anything in between, as long as it was close to Bolinas.

Depends on how close is close. . . Most of the coastal rivers/streams are not open to fishing in that area, until you get up to the Russian River to the north.  There is good quality perch fishing at that time.  There are 2 or 3 guys who work at Western Sport Shop in San Rafael who i’ve seen out there each spring.  Their number is 415-456-5454. I’d ask for Gene or Noel.  They’ve got some patterns worked up which produce pretty well.  They’re real good on the whole area, too. re: other post The Bass Lake ponds in Pt. Reyes Natl Sea Shore are fun to walk to, but pretty fishless for about the last 10 years. *                                                     *

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Quoting brande from a message in rec.outdoors.fishing.fly    <Planning a visit to some friends in the Bolinas/Stinson Beach area    <early in April.  Thought I’d take my flyrod.  Anybody have any    <suggestions?  I’d be interested in fishing surf or small streams or    <anything in between, as long as it was close to Bolinas. David – You should may be able to catch surf perch off the beaches up there. Also, Russian River is just to the north.  Not too sure of all the specifics as I haven’t lived in NorCal in quite a few years. Jim Carlisle

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Planning a visit to some friends in the Bolinas/Stinson Beach area early in April.  Thought I’d take my flyrod.  Anybody have any suggestions?  I’d be interested in fishing surf or small streams or anything in between, as long as it was close to Bolinas. Thanks, David

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