Question:

I’m just trying to figure out where there’s *any* flyfishing near the Frying Pan river. I lived there for 15 years and all I ever saw was a liquid golf course. — TBone Walker The Halfordian Golfer

Response:

The Green through Wyoming has far fewer fish per mile but the fishery is much more wild and in many stretches there are very few anglers.

I would humbly suggest a copy of the book "A River No More" so you can appreciate fully your understatement. Your pal, — TBone Walker The Halfordian Golfer

Response:

I’m just trying to figure out where there’s *any* flyfishing near the Frying Pan river. I lived there for 15 years and all I ever saw was a liquid golf course.

Liquid Golf Course, eh?  I suppose to each is own!  I admit I was never crazy about fishing the Frying Pan right at the dam.  You almost spend more time cleaning up trash than working the river.  Some good size fish that have been hooked to death.  But then again any tailwater that has such a limited flow will exhibit such problems to the fish.  The Taylor, Frying Pan, Williams Fork, and the South Platte all come to mind.   Let’s not forget the great opportunities Colorado offers for the fly fisherman.  So many fisherman drive past some incredible freestone rivers to get to what some call the Disney Parks of fly fishing.  But to each is own and who am I to judge?  I fished as many rivers as possible and I enjoyed the unique view each one had to offer. A liquid gold course to one guy is a dream vacation to another… — remove all x’s for reply email. To worry is folly so let us be jolly.

Response:

A liquid gold course to one guy is a dream vacation to another…

That, my friend, was a ‘precious’ misspelling. — A Cash Flow Runs Through It

Response:

A liquid gold course to one guy is a dream vacation to another… That, my friend, was a ‘precious’ misspelling.

Very metallic to say the least. — remove all x’s for reply email. To worry is folly so let us be jolly.

Response:

Willi would have us believe: The tailwater section below Flaming Gorge is a "destination" fishing area. Many fish per mile, large fish, but lots of people. The Green through [some godforsaken wilderness] has far fewer fish per

mile but the fishery is much more wild and in many stretches there are very few anglers.

The Flaming Gorge section of the Green is the best part of the river and that’s where Everyone should go. There are other parts of the Green that you’ll hear (tormented) people discuss once in a while, but all the fish are long gone. A bunch of white bastards showed up from Montana and loaded them into ice chests and hauled them away in their pickup trucks. — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyoming

Response:

The Flaming Gorge section of the Green is the best part of the river and that’s where Everyone should go. There are other parts of the Green that you’ll hear (tormented) people discuss once in a while, but all the fish are long gone. A bunch of white bastards showed up from Montana and loaded them into ice chests and hauled them away in their pickup trucks.

Rusty,   Information just in the nick of time.  I was planning on going to those "other parts" but, now that I know there are no fish there, I’ll go to the Flaming Gorge section instead:) Snoop —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

That section of the gorge supports boating, does it not? I have a 20′ whaler I want to boat with, camp. cruise..etc.. is it possible to camp this section, and hike to the good fly spots?….How far away would you estimate the loading ramps & parking lot for trailers to be? thanx for info… richard colorado – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The Flaming Gorge section of the Green is the best part of the river and that’s where Everyone should go. — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyoming

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Willi would have us believe: The tailwater section below Flaming Gorge is a "destination" fishing area. Many fish per mile, large fish, but lots of people. The Green through [some godforsaken wilderness] has far fewer fish per mile but the fishery is much more wild and in many stretches there are very few anglers. The Flaming Gorge section of the Green is the best part of the river and that’s where Everyone should go. There are other parts of the Green that you’ll hear (tormented) people discuss once in a while, but all the fish are long gone. A bunch of white bastards showed up from Montana and loaded them into ice chests and hauled them away in their pickup trucks. — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyoming

Absofragginlutely.  Once you cross into Wyoming, there is narry a fish to be seen in the Green. Craig A. Gullixson National Solar Observatory/Sac. Peak    PHONE: (505) 434-7065 Sunspot, NM 88349 USA                   FAX: (505) 434-7029

Response:

That section of the gorge supports boating, does it not? I have a 20′ whaler I want to boat with, camp. cruise..etc.. is it possible to camp this section, and hike to the good fly spots?….How far away would you estimate the loading ramps & parking lot for trailers to be?

I don’t know what a 20 foot whaler is but it sounds like it would be overkill on the river. There is alot of floating done on the river in drift boats, rafts and even some bellyboats. There are several campgrounds in the area but I believe that in that section of the river, camping is only allowed in the designated campgrounds. There are easy trails up and down the river. Willi

Response:

is the section you are referring to "below the dam" or "above the dam" ? the 20′ whaler is a pretty big, heavy boat…not for small to med streams…more lakes & large rivers…(& ocean).. thanx.. richard colorado – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That section of the gorge supports boating, does it not? I have a 20′ whaler I want to boat with, camp. cruise..etc.. is it possible to camp this section, and hike to the good fly spots?….How far away would you estimate the loading ramps & parking lot for trailers to be? I don’t know what a 20 foot whaler is but it sounds like it would be overkill on the river. There is alot of floating done on the river in drift boats, rafts and even some bellyboats. There are several campgrounds in the area but I believe that in that section of the river, camping is only allowed in the designated campgrounds. There are easy trails up and down the river. Willi

Response:

is the section you are referring to "below the dam" or "above the dam" ?

Below the dam. You like Cheeseman, so I think you’d really like the fishing there. Plentiful, big fish that you can usually sight fish. I’ve only fished it once and that was late Fall. I was able to get water to myself. From what I understand, it’s not as crowded as Cheeseman but close, especially during prime time. Hatches are much more varied than Cheeseman. The canyon is quite scenic and there quite a few miles of "quality" water. Willi

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey group just a friendly question, I will be driving from Klamath Falls Oregon to Colorado Springs Colorado in late May and have several days to fish in route. Where would you fish? I would suggest a stop at the Green River and then the Glenwood Springs area where you could fish the Frying Pan and Roaring Fork. And in your last post you were commenting that the Bighorn wasn’t so bad…. no wonder. Not sure I follow you…  I wouldn’t drive from Klamath Falls to Colorado Springs via the Bighorn. You commented on the crowds not being too bad on the Bighorn. Then you picked what are probably the two most heavilly fished rivers between Klamath Falls and Colorado Springs for the guy to fish.

Well I didn’t suggest the South Platte!  That would rank in the top 3, for sure.  I also didn’t hot spot some other quality areas that fish really well that time of year.  A couple of spots in Utah and a number of areas in Colorado. The Arkansas and Eagle are most likely blown out during that period of time, so suggesting those rivers would be pointless.  The Raddy, Poudre, and Big T, might also suffer from runoff problemos. What else?  Well he could make a trip over to the Taylor River, the Yampa below Stagecoach reservoir, and a final stop at the Williams Fork and/or Blue River.  Steamboat would be beautiful in late May and worth a night of relaxation. He could also take the very southern route and hit Lee’s Ferry and the San Juan!  Two great tailwaters.  The San Juan might have a good flow during late May, but that of course depends upon the final snowpack which isn’t looking so hot in that area right now.  Durango would make a fine stop for a night.  The Animas in Durango is a great fishery, but once again that May runoff could be a problemo. Want to stay north of 40 Lat?  OK.  Try the Henry’s Fork, Snake, Beaverhead, Missouri, or the BIGHORN!  Heck, If I have a drift boat by then(doubtful) I will even take you down the river!  We could split the rental on drift boat if you would like.  $100 a day.  Drop south on I25/I90 and hit Grey Reef and the Miracle Mile before you reach the metro area cooridor from Ft Collins to Pueblo. So many hatches, so many rivers, and such little time! — remove all x’s for reply email. To worry is folly so let us be jolly.

Response:

thanx for the info…i’ll get a map and check it out… richard – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – is the section you are referring to "below the dam" or "above the dam" ? Below the dam. You like Cheeseman, so I think you’d really like the fishing there. Plentiful, big fish that you can usually sight fish. I’ve only fished it once and that was late Fall. I was able to get water to myself. From what I understand, it’s not as crowded as Cheeseman but close, especially during prime time. Hatches are much more varied than Cheeseman. The canyon is quite scenic and there quite a few miles of "quality" water. Willi

Response:

Hey group just a friendly question, I will be driving from Klamath Falls Oregon to Colorado Springs Colorado in late May and have several days to fish in route. Where would you fish? I would suggest a stop at the Green River and then the Glenwood Springs area where you could fish the Frying Pan and Roaring Fork. And in your last post you were commenting that the Bighorn wasn’t so bad…. no wonder. Not sure I follow you…  I wouldn’t drive from Klamath Falls to Colorado Springs via the Bighorn.

You commented on the crowds not being too bad on the Bighorn. Then you picked what are probably the two most heavilly fished rivers between Klamath Falls and Colorado Springs for the guy to fish. Willi

Response:

Hey group just a friendly question, I will be driving from Klamath Falls Oregon to Colorado Springs Colorado in late May and have several days to fish in route. Where would you fish?

In the water, of course. /daytripper (This ain’t no shuttle launch.  ;-)

Response:

Hey group just a friendly question, I will be driving from Klamath Falls Oregon to Colorado Springs Colorado in late May and have several days to fish in route. Where would you fish? I would suggest a stop at the Green River and then the Glenwood Springs area where you could fish the Frying Pan and Roaring Fork. And in your last post you were commenting that the Bighorn wasn’t so bad…. no wonder.

Not sure I follow you…  I wouldn’t drive from Klamath Falls to Colorado Springs via the Bighorn.   — remove all x’s for reply email. To worry is folly so let us be jolly.

Response:

what part/or location is good on the green river? anyone fished up near flaming gorge nat’l park? good fishing up that way? thanx… richard colorado

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey group just a friendly question, I will be driving from Klamath Falls Oregon to Colorado Springs Colorado in late May and have several days to fish in route. Where would you fish? I would suggest a stop at the Green River and then the Glenwood Springs area where you could fish the Frying Pan and Roaring Fork. Paul — remove all x’s for reply email. To worry is folly so let us be jolly.

Response:

what part/or location is good on the green river? anyone fished up near flaming gorge nat’l park? good fishing up that way?

Depends on what you call good fishing: The tailwater section below Flaming Gorge is a "destination" fishing area. Many fish per mile, large fish, but lots of people. The Green through Wyoming has far fewer fish per mile but the fishery is much more wild and in many stretches there are very few anglers. Willi

Response:

Hey group just a friendly question, I will be driving from Klamath Falls Oregon to Colorado Springs Colorado in late May and have several days to fish in route. Where would you fish?

I would suggest a stop at the Green River and then the Glenwood Springs area where you could fish the Frying Pan and Roaring Fork. Paul — remove all x’s for reply email. To worry is folly so let us be jolly.

Response:

Hey group just a friendly question, I will be driving from Klamath Falls Oregon to Colorado Springs Colorado in late May and have several days to fish in route. Where would you fish?

One more thing!  Be aware of runoff in late May!  Depending upon the final snowpack, nearly all the non-tailwater fisheries will be blown out. Paul — remove all x’s for reply email. To worry is folly so let us be jolly.

Response:

Hey group just a friendly question, I will be driving from Klamath Falls Oregon to Colorado Springs Colorado in late May and have several days to fish in route. Where would you fish? I would suggest a stop at the Green River and then the Glenwood Springs area where you could fish the Frying Pan and Roaring Fork.

And in your last post you were commenting that the Bighorn wasn’t so bad…. no wonder. Willi

Response:

Hey group just a friendly question, I will be driving from Klamath Falls Oregon to Colorado Springs Colorado in late May and have several days to fish in route. Where would you fish?

Response:

Question:

Technique: Roll Cast: Bring the sinking line on top Back Cast: Just off vertical…allowing the sinking line to lay on the water Forward Cast: The rod loads from picking up the back cast and by adding a haul the line shoots approximately 60/70′ each cast Getting The Fly Down: Strip line off the reel until the fly is

Question:

I could be mistaken but I thought I read (perhaps it was about George LaBranche) how he would constantly cast while keeping the fly above the water. The idea was to dupe trout into thinking there was a hatch going on. If my reading is correct, then this technique predates Maclean and dispells Borgers’ misinformation. Guess I’ll have to re-read THE DRY FLY AND FAST WATER.

Response:

Shadow Casting… Is it real – or just something pretty dreamed up by Maclean and stunt-filmed by Redford. …and if it is real how does one attempt it. Ari Ari Bert                                        Gaelle Bert +27 (0) 83 232 9903                             +27 (0) 83 236 5308 Flyfishing Corner +27 (0) 11 447 7230                             Shop 94, Admirals Court +27 (0) 11 882 8537 (fax)                       Cnr Craddock & Tyrwhitt www.troutfishing.co.za                                Street, Rosebank P.O.Box 79067 Senderwood 2145 South Africa

Response:

Shadow Casting… Is it real – or just something pretty dreamed up by Maclean and stunt-filmed by Redford. ..

It’s the latter. Kevin

Response:

Shadow Casting… Is it real – or just something pretty dreamed up by Maclean and stunt-filmed by Redford.

It’s been a while since I read the book.  If memory serves me, it was just something that Paul MacLean made up.      - Ken

Response:

Ari, Go to Jason Borger’s website and read what he has to say about shadow casting. http://www.jasonborger.com/NewFiles/shadowcast.html Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Shadow Casting… Is it real – or just something pretty dreamed up by Maclean and stunt-filmed by Redford. …and if it is real how does one attempt it. Ari Ari Bert                                        Gaelle Bert +27 (0) 83 232 9903                             +27 (0) 83 236 5308 Flyfishing Corner +27 (0) 11 447 7230                             Shop 94, Admirals Court +27 (0) 11 882 8537 (fax)                       Cnr Craddock & Tyrwhitt www.troutfishing.co.za                          Street, Rosebank P.O.Box 79067 Senderwood 2145 South Africa

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Shadow Casting… Is it real – or just something pretty dreamed up by Maclean and stunt-filmed by Redford. …and if it is real how does one attempt it. Ari Ari Bert                                   Gaelle Bert +27 (0) 83 232 9903                                +27 (0) 83 236 5308 Flyfishing Corner +27 (0) 11 447 7230                                Shop 94, Admirals Court +27 (0) 11 882 8537 (fax)                  Cnr Craddock & Tyrwhitt www.troutfishing.co.za                           Street, Rosebank P.O.Box 79067 Senderwood 2145 South Africa

There is a little merit to it. If one can show  only the leader and a fly over a certain area several times, it may arouse curiousity in a trout. They are more aware of what goes on above the surface than most give them credit,  especially in lakes in calmer conditions. Bob S — Free Fly Fishing E-Magazine http://go.to/lakeflyfishing Lake Fly Fishing Instructional CD’s & VHS Top Fifty Lake Fly Patterns on CD-ROM

Response:

Question:

I posted in too much haste, I was just too excited about his possibilities. I am afraid I was too insulting.  I did not mean to imply that he wasn’t already famous. I will use it no matter what he calls it although I would have to think about it if it was "Missed-Bass Knot".  I have too many reminders of that now. AL

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yeah, Al, but who’s going to want to tie a lure on with a knot called "Missed-a-Bass knot?"  :-))  Shawn, you gotta use your real name on this if you want to become famous. Warren1 Here’s your chance to become famous!  Heck, just reading your note I can see some possiblities. AL "Missed-a-Bass" wrote I came up with my own version of the Pitzen, just ’cause I’m a putz [PUTZIE] and couldn’t remember what snip So what is my modified Pitzen called? It holds up wonderfully…I couldn’t have thought this up myself…where’s Rodney when you need him! Shawn [SHAWNNY] snip

Response:

It’s all good AL. I can take it…been there, done that. — Early to Bed, Early to Rise… Fish all Day, Make up Lies. Shawn

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I posted in too much haste, I was just too excited about his possibilities. I am afraid I was too insulting.  I did not mean to imply that he wasn’t already famous. I will use it no matter what he calls it although I would have to think about it if it was "Missed-Bass Knot".  I have too many reminders of that now. AL Yeah, Al, but who’s going to want to tie a lure on with a knot called "Missed-a-Bass knot?"  :-))  Shawn, you gotta use your real name on this if you want to become famous. Warren1 Here’s your chance to become famous!  Heck, just reading your note I can see some possiblities. AL "Missed-a-Bass" wrote I came up with my own version of the Pitzen, just ’cause I’m a putz [PUTZIE] and couldn’t remember what snip So what is my modified Pitzen called? It holds up wonderfully…I couldn’t have thought this up myself…where’s Rodney when you need him! Shawn [SHAWNNY] snip

Response:

You’ve got a point there ol’ W1 but maybe I should take this opportunity to explain my screen name. I’m always taking the brunt of fishing jokes/tales, yet those that mock me ask advice. Hence "Missed-A-Bass" (say it fast 3 times.. sounds like Mr. Bass don’t ya think?) I think that’s called an Al-go-rhythm.    LMAO! — Early to Bed, Early to Rise… Fish all Day, Make up Lies. Shawn

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yeah, Al, but who’s going to want to tie a lure on with a knot called "Missed-a-Bass knot?"  :-))  Shawn, you gotta use your real name on this if you want to become famous. Warren1 Here’s your chance to become famous!  Heck, just reading your note I can see some possiblities. AL "Missed-a-Bass" wrote I came up with my own version of the Pitzen, just ’cause I’m a putz [PUTZIE] and couldn’t remember what snip So what is my modified Pitzen called? It holds up wonderfully…I couldn’t have thought this up myself…where’s Rodney when you need him! Shawn [SHAWNNY] snip

Response:

Here’s your chance to become famous!  Heck, just reading your note I can see some possiblities. AL "Missed-a-Bass" wrote I came up with my own version of the Pitzen, just ’cause I’m a putz

[PUTZIE] and couldn’t remember what snip So what is my modified Pitzen called? It holds up wonderfully…I couldn’t have thought this up myself…where’s Rodney when you need him! Shawn [SHAWNNY]

snip

Response:

Yeah, Al, but who’s going to want to tie a lure on with a knot called "Missed-a-Bass knot?"  :-))  Shawn, you gotta use your real name on this if you want to become famous. Warren1

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here’s your chance to become famous!  Heck, just reading your note I can see some possiblities. AL "Missed-a-Bass" wrote I came up with my own version of the Pitzen, just ’cause I’m a putz [PUTZIE] and couldn’t remember what snip So what is my modified Pitzen called? It holds up wonderfully…I couldn’t have thought this up myself…where’s Rodney when you need him! Shawn [SHAWNNY] snip

Response:

If you want to do more "research’ [Bob, you will find your description given there by one of the posters] on this go to:  http://www.sport-fish-info.com/wwwboard/messages/9012.html One thing you will find they are as confused as we can become on this board. I suspect it is as CA Bill states it is currently called San Diego Knot when it is doubled but it is still in my opinion a variance of a Pitzen Knot which no one on that board seems to have a hint of either.  I am sorry I can’t find my notes on the history of this knot but Pitzen was a long ago German fisher that the credit I saw was given to him for devising this knot. The variations of this knot are used by Tuna fishers on the West Coast, for one, and they are well convinced that this is basically a good, reliable, and strong knot, no matter the variance in tying it. If I ever find my ‘brain’ for the history of  the Pitzen Knot I will post, but don’t hold your breath. I also use a  loop knot as a companion to the Pitzen Knot because I remove or do not use split rings for attaching line to lure.  I use the Buffer Loop Knot for quick and easy tie of a Loop or for confidence I use the Rapala Loop, however,  I have made mistakes tying the Rapala Loop and the lure came loose.  Hence, the trade off in getting too complicated in knot tying techniques. AL

Al, after thinking about it a few minutes and looking at the link Shawn provided [a link to Pitzen Knot, AL] I realized you are right.  Might dub

it the double Pitzen knot, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – until Tony claims the right to name it himself. snip

Response:

Al, after thinking about it a few minutes and looking at the link Shawn provided, I realized you are right.  Might dub it the double Pitzen knot, until Tony claims the right to name it himself. Have never had one break off, unless I forgot to retie between trips and the line had deteriorated.  Because of the doubled line and its cinching power, it slips less than any other knot I have used on spinnerbaits. —    Go Fishing.  And may your fish be as big as your tales.    Columbia, SC  Lake Murray

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Bob, I understood your description.  I like the feature that the doubled eye line is incorporated into the knot and the standing line.  Might be easier to understand for those familiar with tying the Pitzen Knot which is what I use. Jamie,   The Pitzen Knot strength is allegedly close to a 100% line strength. AL .snip I have tried to explain his knot, but it apparently is not clear, and I have the graphic skills of a snail. I think I’ll try out the Pitzen next, and check out the Uni for loop knots.

Response:

the Pitzen Knot I will post, but don’t hold your breath.

OK, Overcame my tunnel vision,  Jamie probably saw this!  It is at the bottom of the sites description that he posted. "The Pitzen knot, Invented by Edgar Pitzenbauer of Germany is easy to tie with a little practice, and results in a knot the [sic] retains 95-100% of the tippet’s rated strength as opposed to 65% for a Clinch knot.  The Pitzen knot is also smaller by about 40%" AL

Response:

Ya know it’s a funny thing….while driving today I was thinking of the Pitzen knot. Back 2-3 years ago when I was learning to tie fishing knots I came up with my own version of the Pitzen, just ’cause I’m a putz and couldn’t remember what the heck I was doing. The only difference is I would run the tag through the hook eye one more time, just before threading it through the original loop, then snug it up. Once I learned the Palomar I forgot everything else. So what is my modified Pitzen called? It holds up wonderfully…I couldn’t have thought this up myself…where’s Rodney when you need him! — Early to Bed, Early to Rise… Fish all Day, Make up Lies. Shawn

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Al, after thinking about it a few minutes and looking at the link Shawn provided, I realized you are right.  Might dub it the double Pitzen knot, until Tony claims the right to name it himself. Have never had one break off, unless I forgot to retie between trips and the line had deteriorated.  Because of the doubled line and its cinching power, it slips less than any other knot I have used on spinnerbaits. —    Go Fishing.  And may your fish be as big as your tales.    Columbia, SC  Lake Murray Bob, I understood your description.  I like the feature that the doubled eye line is incorporated into the knot and the standing line.  Might be easier to understand for those familiar with tying the Pitzen Knot which is what I use. Jamie,   The Pitzen Knot strength is allegedly close to a 100% line strength. AL .snip I have tried to explain his knot, but it apparently is not clear, and I have the graphic skills of a snail. I think I’ll try out the Pitzen next, and check out the Uni for loop knots.

Response:

The San Diego knot is similar, but you run the line through the loop by the eye first, before the one at the top. Bill

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – And for those of you who would like to see the Pitzen knot, try this… www.agron.missouri.edu/flyfishing/pitzen.html — Early to Bed, Early to Rise… Fish all Day, Make up Lies. Shawn Bob, I understood your description.  I like the feature that the doubled eye line is incorporated into the knot and the standing line.  Might be easier to understand for those familiar with tying the Pitzen Knot which is what I use. Jamie,   The Pitzen Knot strength is allegedly close to a 100% line strength. AL .snip I have tried to explain his knot, but it apparently is not clear, and I have the graphic skills of a snail. I think I’ll try out the Pitzen next, and check out the Uni for loop knots.

Response:

Bob, I understood your description.  I like the feature that the doubled eye line is incorporated into the knot and the standing line.  Might be easier to understand for those familiar with tying the Pitzen Knot which is what I use. Jamie,   The Pitzen Knot strength is allegedly close to a 100% line strength. AL

.snip I have tried to explain his knot, but it apparently is not clear, and I have the graphic skills of a snail. I think I’ll try out the Pitzen next, and check out the Uni for loop

knots.

Response:

And for those of you who would like to see the Pitzen knot, try this… www.agron.missouri.edu/flyfishing/pitzen.html — Early to Bed, Early to Rise… Fish all Day, Make up Lies. Shawn

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Bob, I understood your description.  I like the feature that the doubled eye line is incorporated into the knot and the standing line.  Might be easier to understand for those familiar with tying the Pitzen Knot which is what I use. Jamie,   The Pitzen Knot strength is allegedly close to a 100% line strength. AL .snip I have tried to explain his knot, but it apparently is not clear, and I have the graphic skills of a snail. I think I’ll try out the Pitzen next, and check out the Uni for loop knots.

Response:

I was just reading the knot thread from mid-March, and I’ve got some more questions. I wanted to know if there’s a resource that has some real statistics on breaking strength of different knots (and also considerations as to their appropriateness with different # test monos). Also, I conducted a little experiment with knot comparisons: I had two key-ring sized split-rings, and I tied two different knots on each side (8# test). I yanked them apart until something gave. I only compared the Trilene, Palomar, Improved Clinch, and Rapala (loop). My informal (and unrecorded) findings of order of strength, highest to lowest. *Trilene *Palomar (usually was beaten by the Trilene) *Improved Clinch (pretty low breaking strength) *Rapala (very low breaking strengh, ughh.. it’s what I’ve been using on jerkbaits, topwaters, etc.) I think I’ll try out the Pitzen next, and check out the Uni for loop knots.  ALSO, I regularly hit the search engines, and ask the group, about once every two months: Does anyone have a picture of how to tie the Jimmy Houston Knot (supposed to be very close to 100% knot strength)? (Hint: the picture in "Caught Me a Big ‘Un…" is incomplete, so please don’t tell me to look there, unless you can tell me the missing step). Thanks a bunch, Jamie

Response:

Jamie, the short answer is all line manufacturers have a machine to test their lines with different knots.  From this, you would assume that they recommend knots that work best with their line. Just haven’t seen a line manufacturer mention Tony Bean’s knot, which is the strongest knot I have used. Help me here, TNBass, after you get back from the TN Classic.  Tony is a Tennessee small-mouth guide and is reputed to have won many tournaments.  Do you know how to contact him?  I have tried to explain his knot, but it apparently is not clear, and I have the graphic skills of a snail. —    Go Fishing.  And may your fish be as big as your tales.    Columbia, SC  Lake Murray

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was just reading the knot thread from mid-March, and I’ve got some more questions. I wanted to know if there’s a resource that has some real statistics on breaking strength of different knots (and also considerations as to their appropriateness with different # test monos). Also, I conducted a little experiment with knot comparisons: I had two key-ring sized split-rings, and I tied two different knots on each side (8# test). I yanked them apart until something gave. I only compared the Trilene, Palomar, Improved Clinch, and Rapala (loop). My informal (and unrecorded) findings of order of strength, highest to lowest. *Trilene *Palomar (usually was beaten by the Trilene) *Improved Clinch (pretty low breaking strength) *Rapala (very low breaking strengh, ughh.. it’s what I’ve been using on jerkbaits, topwaters, etc.) I think I’ll try out the Pitzen next, and check out the Uni for loop knots.  ALSO, I regularly hit the search engines, and ask the group, about once every two months: Does anyone have a picture of how to tie the Jimmy Houston Knot (supposed to be very close to 100% knot strength)? (Hint: the picture in "Caught Me a Big ‘Un…" is incomplete, so please don’t tell me to look there, unless you can tell me the missing step). Thanks a bunch, Jamie

Response:

Question:

    it wasn’t the dwarf.     the phone woke me from a desperate dream involving my seventh grade math teacher, ms. rogers, and a thong bikini.  i looked at the glowing numbers on the digital clock, and watched in near disbelief as i finally realized that "4:30" kept blinking at me as i mumbled responses to the voice on the other end of the line.  high pitched, youthful, and bursting with excitement, the language predicted an arrival within the hour.  feeling precisely like a character from the beatles’ "sgt. pepper"  (woke up, fell out of bed, ran a comb across my hair…), i gathered my beloved little hamilton bamboo and some ragged remnants of what now seems another life and prepared for the arrival of ol zimbo the earnest.  instead of a knock on the door, i get a cell call.  dude is lost; an easy thing to do in a metropolis such as greensboro, nc.  i direct him unerringly to my new digs, and we are off in a whirl of  coffee fumes and early morning hopes.     after a trip made quick by the always pleasant exchange of ideas between myself and my fellow traveler (not) we arrived at chez waldo, a location made bearable only by the presence of little marie the long-suffering.  we geared up and fell (almost literally) into the very cold waters of the mighty watauga river, all of thirty feet wide.  the bastards were tougher than any stockers i have ever run across, falling only to small pt nymphs driven deep with lead.  yeah, forty, i know, that ain’t trout fishin; but it beats a cedar branch shoved up your anal cavity.     hoping that the water up on grandfather mountain would warm by midday, acting up as of late, so our progress was quite slow even on the downhill trip to the water.  but the trip was well worth the pain.  this creek is breathtaking in its raw beauty.  flowing though a gorge filled with cabin-sized granite rocks, plunge pools, and falls, it is the archtype carolina freestone backwoods stream.  the water was higher than i would have ever thought, and so cold that staying in it for longer than about twenty minutes at a time was an act of courage or foolishness, depending upon one’s philosophy.  as the more mature members of the threesome held steady to a committment to fish as a gentleman, the irrepressible zimbo dredged the long, black runs with his favorite weapons:  tiny nymphs, lead, and a stick-on.  of course, if one is to be an objective reporter, one must admit that he met with far more success than did we.  but in the final analysis, life is about quality, not quantity…i think.     a moment’s excitement was created when a rainbow of over a foot in length, with the characteristic black back and dark red stripe, surged from a seam between very fast water and a foam covered eddy to smash my 16 para adams.  i snapped the 5x as if it were a spyder’s web in my panicked overreaction.  it’s been a long time between strikes.     photography was a more productive activity than fishing, and i can hardly wait to see the prints of my companions and their environment:  weak little primates crawling around and up the pebbles of the gods, waving their foolish sticks and feathers in futility, cradled by the strength of timeless rock and the relentless, indomitable water that flows across its surface.     it was good to be back where trout live. from the beauty of the old north state to all of you, i remain yr obt svt a. wayne harrison

Response:

…..ok, maybe there’s one or two others but still it’s a burden…..

BWAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Wolfgang cleri……carrio……clariu……ah rats!

Response:

Watch it, wayno. Careless use of ‘native’ ain’t happening in this newsgroup any more.  :-) Welcome the hell back, counselor! "Why can’t everybody else leave everybody else alone?"                               -Hank Junior

Response:

Well, what a coincidence!  After almost 2 weeks of almost total internet blackout (due to technical "difficulties" beyond the grasp of the Wile E. Coyote "support" personnel at Road Runner), I come back looking for something interesting and sure enough I find it.  That primes me nicely for my lower Upper excursion tomorrow, thank you very much.

Response:

   it was good to be back where trout live.

Thanks for a great trip report. I was thinking of you and your son this morning as I just received notice that one of my friend’s wife has just set a Texas state record by catching a 10 1/4 inch redear. Big Dale

Response:

  it was good to be back where trout live. from the beauty of the old north state to all of you, i remain yr obt svt a. wayne harrison

Brilliant prose, thanks Wayne. Good to see the old "Upper Case"free, typing again. The monitor smiles now. — Bill Grey http://www.billboy.co.uk

Response:

   it wasn’t the dwarf.

[a typical nc tr snip]    it was good to be back where trout live. from the beauty of the old north state to all of you, i remain yr obt svt a. wayne harrison

lookit wayno, don’t you ever leave me alone with this bunch of crackpots ever again  - eh!! do you have any idea how hard it is being the sole voice of reason in this loony bin?  ok, maybe there’s one or two others but still it’s a burden.   good to have you back. man Peter

Response:

…  yeah, forty, i know, that ain’t trout fishin; but it beats a cedar branch shoved up your anal cavity. Well, you do have a way with words. Have missed your mellifluous musings, good to see you back.

Meli….melliph…..mellif……damn, I’m LOOKING at that and I can’t spell it!  Funniest way to say smelly old poop I ever saw. Wolfgang dwarf or lawyer…..dwarf or lawyer…..dwarf or lawyer……hm…gotta think about that

Response:

It’s good to see you again, Wayne. Thanks for the report, Herman     it wasn’t the dwarf.

<rest of a great report creatively snipped

Response:

Meli….melliph…..mellif……damn, I’m LOOKING at that and I can’t spell it!  Funniest way to say smelly old poop I ever saw.

No doubt!  Why not just say it the easy: "Ken" <g How was the game last night turd licker? — Warren Findley "The vice or virtue of any form of angling lies not in the method but in the man." Author Hugh Falkus

Response:

…  yeah, forty, i know, that ain’t trout fishin; but it beats a cedar branch shoved up your anal cavity.

Well, you do have a way with words. Have missed your mellifluous musings, good to see you back. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –    it wasn’t the dwarf. HAH! I called it – I *knew* it was you! What’d I win, Z’man?    it was good to be back where trout live. from the beauty of the old north state to all of you, i remain yr obt svt a. wayne harrison The dump has seemed empty without you, wayno. Welcome home. /daytripper (Did I win a Hamilton Rod? Huh? Huh?

Yeah – the dwarf has it….<G TC, R

Response:

   it wasn’t the dwarf.    the phone woke me from a desperate dream involving my seventh grade math teacher, ms. rogers, and a thong bikini.

 <Gratuitous imagery snipped, for the sake of gentler readers Well, if it is a forgery, it’s pretty dead-nut accurate…<G Welcome back, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -from the beauty of the old north state to all of you, i remain yr obt svt a. wayne harrison

Response:

    the phone woke me from a desperate dream involving my seventh grade math teacher, ms. rogers, and a thong bikini.

Missed you wayno, not to mention your superb imagery.   Welcome back.   You didn’t miss much (that you haven’t seen in another version.) Joe F.

Response:

   it wasn’t the dwarf.

HAH! I called it – I *knew* it was you! What’d I win, Z’man?    it was good to be back where trout live. from the beauty of the old north state to all of you, i remain yr obt svt a. wayne harrison

The dump has seemed empty without you, wayno. Welcome home. /daytripper (Did I win a Hamilton Rod? Huh? Huh?

Response:

   it was good to be back where trout live. from the beauty of the old north state to all of you, i remain yr obt svt a. wayne harrison

Good to see you back astream as well!  So it took Zimbo waking you from a wet dream to get your tired old bones moving or were you secretely thinking of you and your 7th grade teacher in a foot race pursuing Zimbo in a thong?!!! Inquiring minds want to know!! I shudda known, dry fly purist to the end. Been listening to Walt again haven’t ya?  It musta been early for you to have fallen for Zimbo letting you use his breathables while he snuggled down in those nice warm neoprenes.  Now, get off your arse and come north for some gentlemanly fishing (I’ve got a beautiful 100% wild trout river staked out with nice and easy walking)! Wayne to fish is human…..to release Divine!!  —–  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free (anonymous) Usenet News via the Web  —–   http://newsone.net/ — Free reading and anonymous posting to 60,000+ groups    NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other posts

Response:

i remain

We certainly hope so.  Nice to have you back Wayno. Wolfgang

Response:

It is nice to have you and your posts back Wayno!  A very nice trip report indeed. Warren

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     it wasn’t the dwarf.     the phone woke me from a desperate dream involving my seventh grade math teacher, ms. rogers, and a thong bikini.  i looked at the glowing numbers on the digital clock, and watched in near disbelief as i finally realized that "4:30" kept blinking at me as i mumbled responses to the voice on the other end of the line.  high pitched, youthful, and bursting with excitement, the language predicted an arrival within the hour.  feeling precisely like a character from the beatles’ "sgt. pepper"  (woke up, fell out of bed, ran a comb across my hair…), i gathered my beloved little hamilton bamboo and some ragged remnants of what now seems another life and prepared for the arrival of ol zimbo the earnest.  instead of a knock on the door, i get a cell call.  dude is lost; an easy thing to do in a metropolis such as greensboro, nc.  i direct him unerringly to my new digs, and we are off in a whirl of  coffee fumes and early morning hopes.     after a trip made quick by the always pleasant exchange of ideas between myself and my fellow traveler (not) we arrived at chez waldo, a location made bearable only by the presence of little marie the long-suffering.  we geared up and fell (almost literally) into the very cold waters of the mighty watauga river, all of thirty feet wide.  the bastards were tougher than any stockers i have ever run across, falling only to small pt nymphs driven deep with lead.  yeah, forty, i know, that ain’t trout fishin; but it beats a cedar branch shoved up your anal cavity.     hoping that the water up on grandfather mountain would warm by midday, really acting up as of late, so our progress was quite slow even on the downhill trip to the water.  but the trip was well worth the pain.  this creek is breathtaking in its raw beauty.  flowing though a gorge filled with cabin-sized granite rocks, plunge pools, and falls, it is the archtype carolina freestone backwoods stream.  the water was higher than i would have ever thought, and so cold that staying in it for longer than about twenty minutes at a time was an act of courage or foolishness, depending upon one’s philosophy.  as the more mature members of the threesome held steady to a committment to fish as a gentleman, the irrepressible zimbo dredged the long, black runs with his favorite weapons:  tiny nymphs, lead, and a stick-on.  of course, if one is to be an objective reporter, one must admit that he met with far more success than did we.  but in the final analysis, life is about quality, not quantity…i think.     a moment’s excitement was created when a rainbow of over a foot in length, with the characteristic black back and dark red stripe, surged from a seam between very fast water and a foam covered eddy to smash my 16 para adams.  i snapped the 5x as if it were a spyder’s web in my panicked overreaction.  it’s been a long time between strikes.     photography was a more productive activity than fishing, and i can hardly wait to see the prints of my companions and their environment:  weak little primates crawling around and up the pebbles of the gods, waving their foolish sticks and feathers in futility, cradled by the strength of timeless rock and the relentless, indomitable water that flows across its surface.     it was good to be back where trout live. from the beauty of the old north state to all of you, i remain yr obt svt a. wayne harrison

Response:

Question:

So George, you’ve found yet a new way to assert your commercial presence here…by creating new subject lines…make that HEADLINES several times a day? Don’t you have your own chatroom to manipulate? Bastards All & Lovin Them! Gehrke Fly Rods Best Buy in Nation Chat Site Alive and Well! Since February I have tried to see you as an unfairly treated person here. I find no reason to continue trying. Enough is enough. — Jeff Cook http://www.cookstudios.com Washington DC area

Response:

I think I was an early supporter, having ordered a Bastard, 7.5′, #4 back in December. However, I internalized the wisdom of placing that order especially when the ‘reviews’ began to appear here and decided to cancel the order for my ‘Bastard’ on September 30. Without any other comment I just want to say, boy do I feel relieved.

Response:

I think I was an early supporter, having ordered a Bastard, 7.5′, #4 back in December. However, I internalized the wisdom of placing that order especially when the ‘reviews’ began to appear here and decided to cancel the order for my ‘Bastard’ on September 30. Without any other comment I just want to say, boy do I feel relieved.

this.  That you feel relieved is another question regarding you being able to think for yourself is in question with me.  You could have inspected the qualities of a fine fly rod first hand.  That you seem to have ‘a need’ to post such a remark in public, I regard as disappointing as it does not hurt me as much as it does you. A fair man wouldn’t have done this. Why did you do this?  We never did anything to you but work our hearts out for you. christ. Mr. G.

Response:

Just think Allen, you could have seen first hand what a pile of crap his rods are and sent it back.  After all he does guarantee your money back plus a nasty response to any one who doesn’t like them.  Of course you are out $12 return postage, but getting on George’s sh*t list should be worth something.  :-) Ernie Harrison Keep Livestock Away From Our Rivers and Streams. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think I was an early supporter, having ordered a Bastard, 7.5′, #4 back in December. However, I internalized the wisdom of placing that order especially when the ‘reviews’ began to appear here and decided to cancel the order for my ‘Bastard’ on September 30. Without any other comment I just want to say, boy do I feel relieved.

Response:

Just think Allen, you could have seen first hand what a pile of crap his rods are and sent it back.  After all he does guarantee your money back plus a nasty response to any one who doesn’t like them.  Of course you are out $12 return postage, but getting on George’s sh*t list should be worth something.  :-) Ernie Harrison

______  Harrison, you’re very bit of what Doug Knight says you are. None of it good.  This style of post of yours again proves what kind of person you really are and always have been in ROFF. Mr. G.

Response:

Steve, you’re right. I could have waited to check out a Bastard and return it (at my expense) if it didn’t pass inspection. However, I am not a bamboo affecionado(sp?), am not qualified to do a quality inspection, and based my decision on the many defects identified in the reviews ‘Bastards’ have received thus far. As far as posting my cancellation: It appears that ANY constructive discussion/criticism/suggestions about ANYTHING associated with this rod brings forth a venemous assault, i.e. "I Tried a Bastard" by Bob Smith. BTW, have you ever walked into a store intending to buy something and were so offended by what you saw of the interaction between sales and customer that you said to yourself, "forget this", and just turned around and walked out.

Response:

Steve, you’re right. I could have waited to check out a Bastard and return it (at my expense) if it didn’t pass inspection. However, I am not a bamboo affecionado(sp?), am not qualified to do a quality inspection, and based my decision on the many defects identified in the reviews ‘Bastards’ have received thus far. As far as posting my cancellation: It appears that ANY constructive discussion/criticism/suggestions about ANYTHING associated with this rod brings forth a venemous assault, i.e. "I Tried a Bastard" by Bob Smith. BTW, have you ever walked into a store intending to buy something and were so offended by what you saw of the interaction between sales and customer that you said to yourself, "forget this", and just turned around and walked out.

wouldn’t let anyone else do my thinking for me. Mr. G.

Response:

George did everything he could to sell his Bastards (ie. SPAM), take orders and impress us with his genius on this newsgroup.  What goes around come around.  Thus, I think it fair to cancel an order via this newsgroup, even if not tactful. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve never posted about the Bastard, but i dont think its fair to say in public that you plan on canceling an order on a rod that you havent seen.  If you have worries about the bastard, its perfectly fine to cancel an order, but to say it in a public forum is just unfairly hurting another person’s business.  Maybe Mr.G’s rods arent perfect but from what i hear, he does have a money back guarantee so you’re not running much risk by at least having it shipped to you to be inspected.

Response:

Just to clarify; I cancelled my purchase of the rod privately, via e-mail, to George on Sept. 30th. My post on ROFF a week later was no different then anyone posting about a broken rod tip, some warranty, some service fee, etc. from any rod, reel, etc. company. BTW, it’s been a long time now but didn’t G post some of the names and number of orders he had? Finally, yes I guess my post may not have been very tactful. I’ll hereby give myself 10 lashes with a wet noodle.

As much as it hurts to say it, I have to agree with George on this one. I have no problem if someone wants to cancel their order but your public statements only point out your preference for bolting with the herd rather than thinking for yourself or just checking it out first hand. Let’s face it. When George started this whole thing it was painfully clear that it was a risk to order a rod from someone that was taking on a fairly demanding technical task for the first time, regardless of what he said. If you didn’t think it was a risk (and the posts at that time made it pretty clear it was) then you were painfully naive. That risk has not changed since the beginning yet you have gotten nervous and bolted at the end. This is still OK by me but what is the purpose of publicly venting your "relief" at this juncture since you have absolutely nothing concrete to add to the debate except to proclaim this herd behavior? I would be embarrassed to publicly advertise that behavior if I were in your position. There have certainly been problems and George has been George. I have read nothing here that is any different than what George has posted since he first appeared on ROFF, so what else is new?! You guys act as if this is all a big surprise. Get real. If you were misled about what it might be like to deal with George on this, I would suggest it was in part done by yourselves and a lust for a new bamboo rod at what was initially hoped to be bargain basement prices. Maybe its time for a reality check and to get over it. As a disclaimer, this post is certainly not a defense of George. Some of the things that have gone on seem reprehensible to me and George is far from pure. Too much said. Jon "sucked into this thread" McAnulty

Response:

Always nice too see the leader of a customer service organization using terms like ‘insect brain’ in a public forum. Especially when its in reference to a potential customer. George, I dont care if your rods are beamed here from God himself … SNIPPED

Exactly my thoughts!  At this point I don’t care how great they might be- I’m willing to skip ever finding out, just so I don’t have to deal with this guy and run the risk of being publicly demeaned. What a freakin’ nutcase. Before you buy.

Response:

…I wouldn’t let anyone else do my thinking for me.

And THIS is a serious problem because you don’t do any of it for yourself either.

Response:

Nice to see the Mrs. has the same accumen. Tom

Response:

I’ve never posted about the Bastard, but i dont think its fair to say in public that you plan on canceling an order on a rod that you havent seen.  If you have worries about the bastard, its perfectly fine to cancel an order, but to say it in a public forum is just unfairly hurting another person’s business.  Maybe Mr.G’s rods arent perfect but from what i hear, he does have a money back guarantee so you’re not running much risk by at least having it shipped to you to be inspected.

It seems to me that the very essence of a public forum such as this newsgroup is to provide an opportunity for anyone to express an opinion; any opinion.  That someone chooses to express an opinion which has a bearing on the central issues covered in this particular newsgroup should not be lamented.  Consider also that the negative reports on Mr. Gerhke’s products undoubtedly do him a lot less damage than does his own behavior in this forum.  Moreover, his incessant peddling of his products here opens the door for responses pertaining to those products even when, as is the case here, those responses are overwhelmingly negative.  ROFF is a community in a truer sense of the word than are most of the cities, towns, and villages in which most of us live.  One of the things which makes this a true community is that the residents, by common if tacit consent, watch out for one another.  This is by and large true despite the vigor with which we sometimes attack one another’s sacred cows.  I am confident that most of the regulars here would warn other members of the community about actual or potential problems with any commercial product regardless of who produces that product.  That one particular purveyor of fly fishing related products chooses to use this forum as his personal marketing outlet should not , and does not, exempt him from the same scrutiny and criticism which any other manufacturer is subject to.  And if his products and his character bring out in public reviews which hurt his business well, what can one say but Tough Shit?!

Response:

Was it Gatlinburg in mid-July, had you just it town and your throat was dry, and did think you’d stop and have yourself a brew?

Response:

Right on John. I first went there in 1931 at age 6. A straw mattress and kerosene lamp. Jack in Nashville.

Response:

Just to clarify; I cancelled my purchase of the rod privately, via e-mail, to George on Sept. 30th. My post on ROFF a week later was no different then anyone posting about a broken rod tip, some warranty, some service fee, etc. from any rod, reel, etc. company. BTW, it’s been a long time now but didn’t G post some of the names and number of orders he had? Finally, yes I guess my post may not have been very tactful. I’ll hereby give myself 10 lashes with a wet noodle.

Response:

Always nice too see the leader of a customer service organization using terms like ‘insect brain’ in a public forum. Especially when its in reference to a potential customer. George, I dont care if your rods are beamed here from God himself or if they truly are the low end of the market. With the defensive, insulting, condescending, aloof and generally surly attitude you take, your business is doomed to fail. If I bought something off of you and decided to return it, and you sent me a nasty-gram along with my refund check, you would regret it for the rest of your business life. Tom.

Response:

George did everything he could to sell his Bastards (ie. SPAM), take orders and impress us with his genius on this newsgroup.  What goes around come around.  Thus, I think it fair to cancel an order via this newsgroup, even if not tactful.

And you’re right, it isn’t tactful. Respectfully, Gladys M. Gehrke Executive Secretary Bastard Fly Rod Company

Response:

every one here knows exactly what they are missing

Response:

every one here knows exactly what they are missing

______ You’re full of it, insect brain.  Along with the other turkeys in Roff just like you. Mr.G.

Response:

I’ve never posted about the Bastard, but i dont think its fair to say in public that you plan on canceling an order on a rod that you havent seen.  If you have worries about the bastard, its perfectly fine to cancel an order, but to say it in a public forum is just unfairly hurting another person’s business.  Maybe Mr.G’s rods arent perfect but from what i hear, he does have a money back guarantee so you’re not running much risk by at least having it shipped to you to be inspected. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

—-snip—- BTW, have you ever walked into a store intending to buy something and were so offended by what you saw of the interaction between sales and customer that you said to yourself, "forget this", and just turned around and walked out.

—-snip—-

Response:

—-snip—- BTW, have you ever walked into a store intending to buy something and were so offended by what you saw of the interaction between sales and customer that you said to yourself, "forget this", and just turned around and walked out. —-snip—-

Gatlinburg! A place I remember with wood sidewalks where I bought one of the finest pair of moccasins I ever owned, real sqaw chewed Cherokee mocs. On the Illinois plains I could fly with them but in rocky terrain were less than ideal. That was 50yrs ago, before all the super interstates and a trip there from Dwight Ill. was an occasion and adventure. Most folks of the area went to Wisconsin or Michigan for pike or musky not to Tenn. for trout. It’s now probably a huge city full of crap and corruption like most of the other places that were peacfull and friendly in my long ago youth.                                                         John Popp                                                      in Sanford Fl.

Response:

George did everything he could to sell his Bastards (ie. SPAM), take orders and impress us with his genius on this newsgroup.  What goes around come around.  Thus, I think it fair to cancel an order via this newsgroup, even if not tactful. And you’re right, it isn’t tactful. Respectfully, Gladys M. Gehrke Executive Secretary Bastard Fly Rod Company

  george, oh i mean gladys (yeah, right), i tried being tactful with your patient, i mean husband. and look where it got me. he comes on here and dumps shit on ANYONE who says ANYTHING that isn’t totally in agreement with his delusions about his rods. the guy is unstable, megalomaniacal,egocentric and a pathalogical liar. i fear for your safety "gladys". if he hasn’t sucked you into his Frostcukoo land beyond all hopes of escape, then RUN Gladys RUN before it’s too late.       bob smith, former weel wisher till i got slammed for trying to tell GG the truth. Before you buy.

Response:

George did everything he could to sell his Bastards (ie. SPAM), take orders and impress us with his genius on this newsgroup.  What goes around come around.  Thus, I think it fair to cancel an order via this newsgroup, even if not tactful.

_______  You don’t know what you’re missing.   Gladys Gehrke

Response:

Question:

If you have fished Lee Vining, then tell me about it. I plan on fishing it a couple days 1st week June. steve k — stev_ix_netcom_com

Response:

If you have fished Lee Vining, then tell me about it. I plan on fishing it a couple days 1st week June. steve k — stev_ix_netcom_com

I haven’t fished it for a while but it used to be good. There is a nice Forestry camp ground after you turn off of 395 toward Yosemite, about a half mile up make a left, it is a good starting point for fishing all of the local streams. If you are going all the way to Lee Vining you mine as well go up toward the Walker River and fish some of the tributary streams like the South Fork of the West Walker past Bridgeport. It is full of hungry Brook Trout. Stay away from the main rivers they are full of ya hoo’s and planted bland tasting bow’s. I fished the Lower Owens last month below Bishop and knocked the Brown Trout dead (not dead I let them go) laregest was 4 pounds, not bad for a heavily fished area. The good fish in Lee Vining used to hang in the bends under the bank, fish them slow. I don’t know if you fly fish or not but stop in a "local" supplt store and check their chalk board for stream updates and fly preference or use a very small worm with a small split shot. Big Wave Dave

Response:

Question:

I would appreciate if someone would post chapter and verse the regulations regarding foul hooking (or snagging) of fish in Colorado. So far the only reference has been a brief ‘open season’ on the Gunnison to utilize Kokanee in the late fall. Is snagging generally allowed. Is it only allowed in only this or other specific instances? If only in limited circumstances what if anything do the regulations say about what an angler must do if he/she accidentally foul hooks a fish when it is not within the specific allowance of the regulation?

Ralph, I have read along this thread and waded through some of the off target posts. After reading you post and the follow up from  "Keith Bell" snagging rules are likely very different than what constitutes a legal catch and how a foul hook is defined. Here in Georgia this has been of concern to myself and several of my fellow anglers. On a trophy stream(the only one at the time) one of the regular anglers was suspected of snagging(which would be foul hooking) fish. Understand the the water here is small and in the summer it can be extremely shallow. This particular angler(whose name sadly became synonymous with foul hooking) used a fly rod with a VERY heavy leader, several full size split shot and a size six wolly worm. Amazingly he detailed how fish would strike repeatedly after actually being hooked and breaking off. It was more accurate to say that he stood over fish, dragging his terminal tackle along, under a fish and I guess near the head. Then he would give it a hook set. He regularly foul hooked fish as reported by those who fished with him. My partner came upon he and his son and kept out of site till they left. When we entered the hole we found a fish floating with a very noticable puncture wound in the belly; it was recently dead. Now, I must say that I have foul hooked fish. When that happens and I realize it I try to land the fish quickly and release it. The former stream mentioned allowed an angler to keep a single fish over 22"(17" Brook) per day(3/yr) but if it was foul hooked, it technically should have been released. I don’t know how to avoid foul hooking a fish in normal angling. Here in Georgia though, if you are fishing in put & take streams I suppose it does not matter. Streams with restrictions would be different but it still depends mostly on the ethics of the angler. Hope this is not too long. Good luck on your serach for information. Regrads, J. Webb Atlanta Mac User Group

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [deleted] 7. SNAGGING:         Snagging is illegal unless permitted by the Division on specific waters during specific times. Those seasons are in the list of waters in this brochure. Snagged fish, except kokanee salmon, must be returned to the water immediately. Waters open to snagging include: Beaver Creek Res.; [list shortened] and Williams Fork Res. Snagging begins as early as Sept. 1 on some waters and runs to Jan. 31 on others. To be useful, though, Ken, you should have also posted the definition of Snagging. I didn’t think it was needed, but if it makes you feel better. From the following URL… http://www.canoecreek.com/CFF/p12.htm SNAGGING: Taking of fish by snatching with hooks, gang  hooks, artificial flies or lures or similar devices that hook  fish in part of its body other than mouth. Sounds like you’re pretty much busted on this one.  ;-( But, to be *truly* useful, now you will have to define "snatch". TimW

))))))))  I’m afraid that you’re stretching just a bit too far on that one.  (((((((-: Considering the original phrase in the regulation, "Snagged fish, except kokanee salmon, must be returned to the water immediately."  It leaves little room for anyone to believe that the intent of the regulation is anything other than if you happen to snag a fish you are supposed to release it. Regardless of whether you agree or disagree with the regulation, you technically were in violation. Sorry,      - Ken

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [deleted] 7. SNAGGING:         Snagging is illegal unless permitted by the Division on specific waters during specific times. Those seasons are in the list of waters in this brochure. Snagged fish, except kokanee salmon, must be returned to the water immediately. Waters open to snagging include: Beaver Creek Res.; [list shortened] and Williams Fork Res. Snagging begins as early as Sept. 1 on some waters and runs to Jan. 31 on others. To be useful, though, Ken, you should have also posted the definition of Snagging. I didn’t think it was needed, but if it makes you feel better. From the following URL… http://www.canoecreek.com/CFF/p12.htm SNAGGING: Taking of fish by snatching with hooks, gang  hooks, artificial flies or lures or similar devices that hook  fish in part of its body other than mouth.   Sounds like you’re pretty much busted on this one.  ;-(

But, to be *truly* useful, now you will have to define "snatch". TimW

Response:

By your definition’s oh great right and mighty ones, *All* active presentations of the lure would be illegal. And clearly, any self respecting flyfisherman would look the other way while I weeded out the ‘trash’ species. What do the flyfishermen in the valley call them as they hurl the mighty whitefish onto the bank…"Choabies" ? — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Response:

By your definition’s oh great right and mighty ones, *All* active presentations of the lure would be illegal.

You’re twisting the words again. Here’s what was said, "Snagged fish, except kokanee salmon, must be returned to the water immediately."  This is straight from the Colorado regs.  What they are saying is that if you happen to snag a fish, you must return that fish to the water immediately. This doesn’t make any type of presentation illegal, it just says that regardless of how you happened to do it, you must let the fish go. Whether this is the correct thing to do or not is not at issue here, according to the regs you were doing the wrong thing. Just trying to keep things honest here,      - Ken — Due to USENET parsing SPAMmers, anti-spam measures are in place, reverse the letters in my login to reply (kinajk to kjan..). The opinions expressed do not necessarily indicate the opinions of my employer.

Response:

[deleted] 7. SNAGGING:         Snagging is illegal unless permitted by the Division on specific waters during specific times. Those seasons are in the list of waters in this brochure. Snagged fish, except kokanee salmon, must be returned to the water immediately. Waters open to snagging include: Beaver Creek Res.; [list shortened] and Williams Fork Res. Snagging begins as early as Sept. 1 on some waters and runs to Jan. 31 on others.

To be useful, though, Ken, you should have also posted the definition of Snagging. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Response:

Question:

Hi Group Due computer problems I my regular email will not be working. I will answer emails as soon as I get back on line. If any of you need to contact me before then you can do so at my wife’s email Being off line will give me a lot more time to tie flies. Good tying… — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (97 materials catalog) http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

Response:

the computer was a simple fix, back on-line. — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (97 materials catalog) http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

Response:

Question:

Harrison, You may be right.  I believe I observed Jim and Kelly Watt on the tele one Sat. morning years ago.  For the life of me I can’t remember what ol’ Jimbo looks like BUT I have a vivid picture of Kelly, lips and all.   "Epoxylips", I need to remember that one.  Thank you for correcting me. Stephen Hiner

Stephen:         Just to set you straight, Jimbo is the one who laughs all the time – every nightclub comedians dream. His vocabulary also seems to consist of a single phrase, "oooooooh, NICE FISH". The other member of the dynamic duo squeals a lot and also has a limited vocabulary, i.e., "ooooooooh, THANK YOU FISH". Sometimes they get confused and say things like "THANK YOU, oooooooooh, NICE FISH", or even "NICE, ooooooh, YOU FISH THANK which isn’t in the script. Then they are difficult to tell apart. I think the double XX member of duo wears pink neoprenes, but I haven’t watched the show in years, so maybe I am mistaken.                                 Harrison

Response:

A sure sign – the apocalypse is near!!!! Stephen Hiner

I’m not sure you meant "apocalypse". Didn’t you mean "epoxylips?"                                                 HRS

Response:

Harrison, You may be right.  I believe I observed Jim and Kelly Watt on the tele one Sat. morning years ago.  For the life of me I can’t remember what ol’ Jimbo looks like BUT I have a vivid picture of Kelly, lips and all.  "Epoxylips", I need to remember that one.  Thank you for correcting me. Stephen Hiner

Response:

Folks, most of you are probably aware of the Forum over at the Virtual Flyshop, (chat room, message boards, etc), but our ‘Experts’ board has been down for some time. We’re pleased to announce tha it is back up again, and we have some excellent fly fishermen willing to field your questions, including Gary LaFontaine, Jim Teeny, Jim & Kelly Watt, Dan Wright, Ian Martin and others. Please feel free to make use of this service! The URL for the VFS Forum is http://www.flyshop.com/Forum Thanks, — Mike Tucker-  The Virtual Flyshop Web: http://www.flyshop.com Phone: 970/225-6445

Response:

A sure sign – the apocalypse is near!!!! Stephen Hiner

Response: