Question:

How many people?  Do you have a separate fly? Set out the ground cloth, set out the fly, work between them (it helps, but is not required, to have helpers stabilizing the fly). Depends a lot on specifics,such as tent style, etc. Practice at home. Dan — + – + – + – + – + – + – + – + – + – + – + – + – + – + – + – + – + – + – + – + – + – + – "Science finds, Industry applies, Man conforms." motto of the 1933 Chicago World’s Fair + – + – + – + – + – + – + – + – + – + – + – + – + – + – + – + – + – + – + – + – + – + –

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Speaking of packing a wet tent:  If you’re on a trip where the heavens just pour on you for a couple days’ straight, does anyone have any tips for setting a tent up IN the rain, so as to avoid getting the INSIDE of the tent (very) wet? [I've never had to do it...yet] set up a tarp first. Penny S I’m trying to LOSE weight from my pack, not add to it!! Ruger9 Then leave the tent home.  It weighs a lot more than the tarp. I spent 5 nights in Yellowstone last fall with only a tarp and it rained 4 of those 5 nights.  One night, we had 3 hours of thunderstorms with heavy rain.  Pitch the tent right (pay attention to the weather before you pitch it) and you stay dry. The morning after the thunderstorms, the two of us who slept under the tarp were up and out of camp in less than an hour.  The two who slept in tents that night waited two hours for their tents to dry and then complained that they didn’t have any time for fishing…

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I’m trying to LOSE weight from my pack, not add to it!! Ruger9

Then skip the tent and just take a tarp.  That’s what I do anyway. There are a few tents — like the Wanderlust Nomad — made of Sil-nylon which does not absorb any water.  Shaking it removes all water. My tarp is made of sil-nylon.  After a couple shakes it’s completely dry.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Speaking of packing a wet tent:  If you’re on a trip where the heavens just pour on you for a couple days’ straight, does anyone have any tips for setting a tent up IN the rain, so as to avoid getting the INSIDE of the tent (very) wet? [I've never had to do it...yet] set up a tarp first. Penny S I’m trying to LOSE weight from my pack, not add to it!! Ruger9

Then leave the tent home.  It weighs a lot more than the tarp. I spent 5 nights in Yellowstone last fall with only a tarp and it rained 4 of those 5 nights.  One night, we had 3 hours of thunderstorms with heavy rain.  Pitch the tent right (pay attention to the weather before you pitch it) and you stay dry. The morning after the thunderstorms, the two of us who slept under the tarp were up and out of camp in less than an hour.  The two who slept in tents that night waited two hours for their tents to dry and then complained that they didn’t have any time for fishing…

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Speaking of packing a wet tent:  If you’re on a trip where the heavens just pour on you for a couple days’ straight, does anyone have any tips for setting a tent up IN the rain, so as to avoid getting the INSIDE of the tent (very) wet? [I've never had to do it...yet]

You’re lucky: where & when I normally go is the rainy season, and 3-4 days of solid rain isn’t all that uncommon. The worst part isn’t the tent getting wet so much as that by the 3rd day or so *everything* is either wet or 100% saturated. It’s easier if you can stay at a base camp and leave everything set up, but often that’s not do-able. Bummer packing around 20 lbs of water and very few people can remain optimistic on day no.4 of being cold & wet. I know you leave the doors & windows zipped closed, but if you set up the tent body, which is permeable nylon, and it’s getting poured on while you get the poles connected to it, all that water is going to eventually end up inside the tent, I would think…

It depends on the tent. I can do that with the 1-man (actually I put the poles in position under the rainfly and then raise the tent with the rainfly laying on top of it). The 2-man or family tents need to have the windows or doors open -particularly if the fabric is wet- else they don’t want to go up at all. With them I just do it as quickly as possible and then mop up the floor when it’s up. Maybe unroll the tent, quickly put the whole mess under the fly, and do everything under the rain fly, as best as possible?

And that works if it’s not too windy. — JLG

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Single wall, tent (e.g., Stephensons) Popup Rainfly first (if so built) Tarp. Sulk inside your poncho until you get desperate enough. Pack a large sponge. Practice like NASCAR pitcrews do.  If they can change 4 tires, add 40 gal of fuel, clean the windshield, tweak the suspension, read the joke section of Playboy, and conduct an interview with a sports announcer in 17 secs, then it seems a simple matter to toss a tent up and get in it before getting too damp. But then it all goes to hell in a kitbag if there are big winds as well.

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just pour on you for a couple days’ straight, does anyone have any tips for setting a tent up IN the rain, so as to avoid getting the INSIDE of the tent (very) wet?

Waiting can help.  There are steady rains and there are downpours, but even a hurricane has an eye.  Eventually, rain lets up a little, even if it doesn’t stop.   Steve Silberberg Steve’s Tiny Book of Romance http://www.callipygianproductions.com/stbor/stbor.html "For man so feared his ignorance, that he created god in his image"-Eric 3:16

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Speaking of packing a wet tent:  If you’re on a trip where the heavens just pour on you for a couple days’ straight, does anyone have any tips for setting a tent up IN the rain, so as to avoid getting the INSIDE of the tent (very) wet? [I've never had to do it...yet] set up a tarp first. Penny S

I’m trying to LOSE weight from my pack, not add to it!! Ruger9

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| Speaking of packing a wet tent:  If you’re on a trip where the heavens | just pour on you for a couple days’ straight, does anyone have any | tips for setting a tent up IN the rain, so as to avoid getting the | INSIDE of the tent (very) wet? | [I've never had to do it...yet] | | I know you leave the doors & windows zipped closed, but if you set up | the tent body, which is permeable nylon, and it’s getting poured on | while you get the poles connected to it, all that water is going to | eventually end up inside the tent, I would think… | | Maybe unroll the tent, quickly put the whole mess under the fly, and | do everything under the rain fly, as best as possible? | | Ruger9 I pitch a tarp first, then the tent underneath it. — FlyingCoyote http://www.boarsgut.com —

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[ Ruger9 ] Speaking of packing a wet tent:  If you’re on a trip where the heavens just pour on you for a couple days’ straight, does anyone have any tips for setting a tent up IN the rain, so as to avoid getting the INSIDE of the tent (very) wet?

Use a tent where you pitch the outer first, like Hilleberg or Helsport (the primary brand here in Norway). I’ve camped in too much bad weather to risk using one where the inner is pitched first. I see how using only the inner is nice in places with very stable weather and bugs, but I don’t trust the weather around here that much. Martin — "An ideal world is left as an exercise to the reader."                                                  -Paul Graham, On Lisp

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Speaking of packing a wet tent:  If you’re on a trip where the heavens just pour on you for a couple days’ straight, does anyone have any tips for setting a tent up IN the rain, so as to avoid getting the INSIDE of the tent (very) wet? [I've never had to do it...yet] I know you leave the doors & windows zipped closed, but if you set up the tent body, which is permeable nylon, and it’s getting poured on while you get the poles connected to it, all that water is going to eventually end up inside the tent, I would think… Maybe unroll the tent, quickly put the whole mess under the fly, and do everything under the rain fly, as best as possible? Ruger9

That generally is the way to go, but some designs are better for this than others. Ideal would be the ones where you can set up poles and fly, then open the groundsheet and body underneath. There are also designs from TNF and Walrus which have the poles pre-attached, which speeds up set up. Of course, with practice and teamwork, you can set up in a few minutes. Happy trails, Gary (net.yogi.bear) at the 51st percentile of ursine intelligence Gary D. Schwartz, Needham, MA, USA Please reply to: garyDOTschwartzATpoboxDOTcom

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Speaking of packing a wet tent:  If you’re on a trip where the heavens just pour on you for a couple days’ straight, does anyone have any tips for setting a tent up IN the rain, so as to avoid getting the INSIDE of the tent (very) wet? [I've never had to do it...yet] I know you leave the doors & windows zipped closed, but if you set up the tent body, which is permeable nylon, and it’s getting poured on while you get the poles connected to it, all that water is going to eventually end up inside the tent, I would think… Maybe unroll the tent, quickly put the whole mess under the fly, and do everything under the rain fly, as best as possible? Ruger9

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Speaking of packing a wet tent:  If you’re on a trip where the heavens just pour on you for a couple days’ straight, does anyone have any tips for setting a tent up IN the rain, so as to avoid getting the INSIDE of the tent (very) wet? [I've never had to do it...yet]

set up a tarp first. Penny S

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Question:

Michael writes: This drag would surely have an equivalent effect upon a fly fished with a piece of split shot 2 feet up the tippet? Is this drag the same one you are talking about?

But it is effected less by it.  Like I’ve said, I used to use weighted flies to get my intended lure to the bottom (simply because using split shot or any weight on the leader was illegal in Maine).  However, using the same lure and the same set up, but using a split shot instead of the weighted nymph, the same effect is accomplished (getting the lure down in the water column), but the drag is considerably less.  With this method, I have observed an unweighted lure tumbling on the bottom not unlike the natural.  This is the ideal that I strive for in every cast.  Do I get it perfect each time?  No.  Nor do I always get a nice drag-free drift with a dry.  But I catch more fish with the split shot method than I do with the weighted nymph (Czech) method.  BTW, I seldom use more than one fly.  If you have the *right* fly, it isn’t necessary.  <g Dave LaCourse Pirate and Bottom Dweller

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Hiya Dave,  please refer back to my previous post and tell me if I understand your split shot method.  Forgive me if I am wrong,  but it would appear to me at least that you didn’t read all my post.  I think I have the jist of the method you speak of,  but would appreciate it if you’d confirm either way.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Michael writes: This drag would surely have an equivalent effect upon a fly fished with a piece of split shot 2 feet up the tippet? Is this drag the same one you are talking about? But it is effected less by it.  Like I’ve said, I used to use weighted flies to get my intended lure to the bottom (simply because using split shot or any weight on the leader was illegal in Maine).  However, using the same lure and the same set up, but using a split shot instead of the weighted nymph, the same effect is accomplished (getting the lure down in the water column), but the drag is considerably less.  With this method, I have observed an unweighted lure tumbling on the bottom not unlike the natural.  This is the ideal that I strive for in every cast.  Do I get it perfect each time?  No.  Nor do I always get a nice drag-free drift with a dry.  But I catch more fish with the split shot method than I do with the weighted nymph (Czech) method.  BTW, I seldom use more than one fly.  If you have the *right* fly, it isn’t necessary. <g Dave LaCourse Pirate and Bottom Dweller

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Snip Michael, my experience with super weighted flies is to use them to get the *real* lure down.  The only problem is, they have a lot of drag.  Nymph fishing is just like surface fishing in this regard — you do not want drag.  My way is to use split shot (weight according to how deep/fast moving the water is) about 2 feet above an unweighted nymph.  While I have taken lots of fish with beadhead nymphs, using the split shot is better than using a super weighted fly.  JMO

I assume that the drag that you speak of is the actual dressing of the fly? Obviously the split shot, round and smooth, has little to impart upon the surrounding water.  The copper PT nymphs that I use also are quite "streamlined", and don’t seem to have much drag, or resistance to the water. That is why I like them a lot,  as you can quite effectively get them to the right depth and location even in the tricky waters. However, the drag that you speak of,  you also relate to the "dry fly drag". To me, dry fly drag is the movement of the fly over the surface of the water, brought about by the line "bellying", as cross currents pull on the line.  It is possible to get bad drag when casting directly upstream, particularly in pool tails where the outflow rapids pull (push) on the line, and cause the fly to skate over the water’s surface.  Of course,  this "drag" will be applied to a sunken fly too,   it causes the nymph to travel quite quickly through the water.  This drag would surely have an equivalent effect upon a fly fished with a piece of split shot 2 feet up the tippet? Is this drag the same one you are talking about? I personally have never used split shot,  neither have I used indicators, nor even the dry fly dropper that is said to be a great indicator.  (Whilst keen sight persists, I shall always prefer the simplicity of the greased leader and the single chosen fly.)  The stream that I favour to fish is very overgrown,  and is difficult to fish in a lot of places even with a 7 footer (I just got a 6 footer and really counting the days to next April) and one fly on a 9 ft leader to 2lb tippet.  Although I’ve never tried the split shot,  I will still believe that for me at least, the single Sawyer copper PT nymph & greased leader is the best option that I know of.  That being said,  I will always like to check out new techniques,  and hence my interest on this matter. I’m wondering though if there is something about the split shot that has a good effect upon the fly.  I imagine that the split shot sinks lower than the fly,  creating a V profile in the leader.  Pulling on the fly line will not immdiately make the fly rise,  as the flyline is connected first to the weight of the split shot.  The split shot is trying to pull the fly down as well as the leader and flyline.  That means that there is not a straight line between flyline and fly,  there is a positive bend,  exactly at the spot that the split shot occupies.  Pulling on the fly line will not be directly proportional with imparted fly movement,  not until the bend has been pulled out. Obviously,  as the drag is getting very pronounced,  the V profile will be reduced to eventually a flat line, and the split shot and the fly will be racing along at equal speeds and directions through the water as the dragging flyline rips it along.  At this point,  mends in the line will be required to reduce the flyline pull,  and allow the V profile to form once more.  If the angler is diligent with mending duty,  then the effect of drag can be kept at bay from the fly at least,  the split shot acting as a delayer to the drag. Mmm,  in fact I think I can imagine exactly what you are referring to about the split shot being a drag moderator:  am I right?

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Michael, yours is a very good description of how I’ve always assumed that a split shot (or a heavily weighted fly) mitigates the drag on an unweighted fly below it.  I completely gave up on split shot some time ago in favor of a bead head or other weighted fly to get another, usually much smaller, fly down.  I started doing this when I began fishing some rivers here in Oregon that allow multiple-fly rigs but do not allow "any added weight" applied to the leader or line.  (Folks quickly learned how to get around this rule!).  The bonus is that although most fish take the fly on the point, sometimes one (usually larger than the norm) will take the anchor, which never happens, of course, with split shot.  The draw-back is that it’s harder and more time consuming to adjust the position of the anchor fly along the length of the leader.  One option is to use a fly with a very big eye and attached it with a sort of loop-to-loop connection to the fly, as one does with the new yarn indicators that have a little plastics loop on them. JR – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – beginning snipped I’m wondering though if there is something about the split shot that has a good effect upon the fly.  I imagine that the split shot sinks lower than the fly,  creating a V profile in the leader.  Pulling on the fly line will not immdiately make the fly rise,  as the flyline is connected first to the weight of the split shot.  The split shot is trying to pull the fly down as well as the leader and flyline.  That means that there is not a straight line between flyline and fly,  there is a positive bend,  exactly at the spot that the split shot occupies.  Pulling on the fly line will not be directly proportional with imparted fly movement,  not until the bend has been pulled out. Obviously,  as the drag is getting very pronounced,  the V profile will be reduced to eventually a flat line, and the split shot and the fly will be racing along at equal speeds and directions through the water as the dragging flyline rips it along.  At this point,  mends in the line will be required to reduce the flyline pull,  and allow the V profile to form once more.  If the angler is diligent with mending duty,  then the effect of drag can be kept at bay from the fly at least,  the split shot acting as a delayer to the drag. Mmm,  in fact I think I can imagine exactly what you are referring to about the split shot being a drag moderator:  am I right?

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I’ve only ever read about the upstream Czech nymphing technique.  I have of course seen pictures of the weighty flies  (tungsten and all).  I frequently use copper & 5 pheasant-tail fibre nymphs (Sawyer),  I think that these copper nymphs (or singular to be more accurate,  as I only use one fly at a time)  sink quite quickly upstream on my small Yorks. stream.    Apart from appearance,  is there much difference between these flies:  copper & low surface area nymph Vs the tungsten but relatively fluffy Czech nymph? [snip] Is there any real bonus  with 3 or even 2 on a stream?  Surely they must be a burden at times; one accurate fly of the right selection and method employed, applied  to the point of attention is perhaps all that is required?

The Czech nymphs that I were given seem to be less fluffy than American Nymphs, but to answer your question, the damn things go down faster than a Times Square whore. As to the relative merits of copper vs tungsten, I think tungsten being denser helps thing sink quicker but quicker is not always better. Presentation and mending to reduce drag count for more in my little book. As to bonus of 3 flies vs 2 or one, that’s just the method. some folks have problems with it, I know I did at first but with practice things seem to work OK most of the time but I’ve been known to get a wind knot while tying on a new fly. — Wayne Knight Expert in creating tailing loops and windknots Otherwise Fishless in Kansas

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Michael writes: I’ve only ever read about the upstream Czech nymphing technique.  I have of course seen pictures of the weighty flies  (tungsten and all).  I frequently use copper & 5 pheasant-tail fibre nymphs  (Sawyer),  I think that these copper nymphs (or singular to be more accurate,  as I only use one fly at a time)  sink quite quickly  upstream on my small Yorks. stream.    Apart from appearance,  is there much difference between these flies:  copper & low surface area nymph Vs the tungsten but relatively fluffy Czech nymph? The metal used in the PT nymph is significantly lower in density than the tungsten CN.  In fact I seem to remember something about tungsten being much denser than lead.  However,  the PT nymph is of much lesser surface area (guaged by my eye,  i.e. hunch mode on) than the CN,  woolly body and all. The surface area would impart drag on the sinking fly,  and slow its decent if increased.  Which sinks the quicker?  Is there anything to be gained from copper PT  to CN? Is 3 better than 1?  I use the one fly on my stream,  (though boat fishing on Scottish lochs use 3 or even  4 at times) primarily because that it is my focus on the river.  On the stream I am selecting exact spots,  and only 1 fly can fill this spot.  On the loch/lake things are not quite so exact (particularly if you are sharing the boat with a pair (inevitable trio) of boozers). Is there any real bonus  with 3 or even 2 on a stream?  Surely they must be a burden at times; one accurate fly of the right selection and method employed, applied  to the point of attention is perhaps all that is required? Regards, Michael.

Michael, my experience with super weighted flies is to use them to get the *real* lure down.  The only problem is, they have a lot of drag.  Nymph fishing is just like surface fishing in this regard — you do not want drag.  My way is to use split shot (weight according to how deep/fast moving the water is) about 2 feet above an unweighted nymph.  While I have taken lots of fish with beadhead nymphs, using the split shot is better than using a super weighted fly.  JMO Dave LaCourse Pirate and Bottom Dweller

Response:

I’ve only ever read about the upstream Czech nymphing technique.  I have of course seen pictures of the weighty flies  (tungsten and all).  I frequently use copper & 5 pheasant-tail fibre nymphs  (Sawyer),  I think that these copper nymphs (or singular to be more accurate,  as I only use one fly at a time)  sink quite quickly  upstream on my small Yorks. stream.    Apart from appearance,  is there much difference between these flies:  copper & low surface area nymph Vs the tungsten but relatively fluffy Czech nymph? The metal used in the PT nymph is significantly lower in density than the tungsten CN.  In fact I seem to remember something about tungsten being much denser than lead.  However,  the PT nymph is of much lesser surface area (guaged by my eye,  i.e. hunch mode on) than the CN,  woolly body and all. The surface area would impart drag on the sinking fly,  and slow its decent if increased.  Which sinks the quicker?  Is there anything to be gained from copper PT  to CN? Is 3 better than 1?  I use the one fly on my stream,  (though boat fishing on Scottish lochs use 3 or even  4 at times) primarily because that it is my focus on the river.  On the stream I am selecting exact spots,  and only 1 fly can fill this spot.  On the loch/lake things are not quite so exact (particularly if you are sharing the boat with a pair (inevitable trio) of boozers). Is there any real bonus  with 3 or even 2 on a stream?  Surely they must be a burden at times; one accurate fly of the right selection and method employed, applied  to the point of attention is perhaps all that is required? Regards, Michael.

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Question:

Will be in PNG for Nov/Dec, anyone have any info or URLs for flyfishing there ? Thanks, Mick

Response:

Mick, Nov-Dec will be rainy season – depending on where abouts you are and it might reduce for options for tangling with nugini bass and black bass. Dean guides there and pioneered many locations in PNG for black bass etc. and has many friends there. Regards John Knight Sydney Fly Rodders’

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Question:

I vote we change the name of ROFF to Alt. M. Skeeter seems much more appropriate lately. Willi

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I vote we change the name of ROFF to Alt. M. Skeeter seems much more appropriate lately. Willi

Over in the comp.* newsgroups, they have something called "advocacy" groups.  The idea is that all of the "Mac sux, PC Rulz!" and "Bill Gates is the Great Satan" threads should be limited to comp.*.advocacy, leaving the technical newsgroups for discussion of technical issues.  If you don’t like having the "M. Skeeter" threads in ROFF, you might consider forming ROFF.advocacy. Having said that, let me make it clear that I am not taking aim at Tim W. In my opinion, his posts are as relevant as those from the spokespersons for the flyfishing industry, any of the posts on the morality of C&R, debates about whether real flyfishers use indicators, condemnations of shuffling, condemnations of fishing for spawning salmon, or the thread on jet skis.  You just need to decide where you want this stuff to appear. If you want any of it in ROFF, then you should be prepared for all of it. — Frank

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Question:

I am a flyfishing newbie.  Can someone recommend a good video which teaches the basics of flycasting?  I’m mostly going to be fishing saltwater using 9 weight and heavier rods, casting streamers.  I would especially like to learn to "double haul" and "spey cast".  Thank you for your replies.                                                           Spy in Hawaii

Response:

You might try http://www.troutangler.com and ask Zane or Tom about a video. I’m think they could recommend one to you. — happy trails, Mike & Vivian Foate Rocking Horse Ranch Arvada, Wyoming be sure mosey through our online/ranch bookstore and our music CDs and movies shop! http://www.rockinghorseranch.com

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Question:

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 Muskie, I understand the women in Bikinis..but Why would you want to see T-bone in high heels?  Of course, T-bone clad in Simms neoprenes and wearing 5 inch spike pumps; releasing a 20" brown trout on the Green River; would make a hellava intresting cover for Rod & Reel…;) I’ll E-mail this idea to Jim Butler, I think he’s still on-line..;) ..S.E.

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I’m beginning to like the sound of this new newsgroup…but the name has got to go.   Maybe: rec.outdoors.sex_and_drugs_and_rock_and_roll_and_flyfishing. TimW

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 Muskie, I understand the women in Bikinis..but Why would you want to see T-bone in high heels?  Of course, T-bone clad in Simms neoprenes and wearing 5 inch spike pumps; releasing a 20" brown trout on the Green River; would make a hellava intresting cover for Rod & Reel…;) I’ll E-mail this idea to Jim Butler, I think he’s still on-line..;) ..S.

Releasing ?  My ass. TimW

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I’m beginning to like the sound of this new newsgroup…but the name has got to go. Maybe: rec.outdoors.sex_and_drugs_and_rock_and_roll_and_flyfishing. TimW

Tim- You forgot _fetish_ — Phil Koenig Manhattan Custom Tackle Ltd. http://fishdoc.com./ "I’m the boss,so WHATEVER I say is OK"

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I’m beginning to like the sound of this new newsgroup…but the name has got to go. Maybe: rec.outdoors.sex_and_drugs_and_rock_and_roll_and_flyfishing.

Subscribe me in! Tapani

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<Women in bikinis snipped Maybe: rec.outdoors.sex_and_drugs_and_rock_and_roll_and_flyfishing. TimW

NO ! Think of the impact of a newsgroup like this ! 1. Psychedelic flies 2. Nude flyfishing (See my fishing partners and understand the concern) 3. Rubber and leather flyvests 4. Fur lined handcuffs replacing zingers 5. LSD based Gink 6. Streamers used to facilitate body piercing 7. Latex flies 8. Indian cane rods making a comeback (used with the handcuffs) 9. Synchronised casting sessions to the beat of Pearl Jam 10 The degradation of flyfishing to the extent that the phrase "Would you like to    go flyfishing with me" has the same amount of credibility as "How about a cup    of coffee", or the ever popular "Were out of gas". 8^) Bruce….

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <Women in bikinis snipped Maybe: rec.outdoors.sex_and_drugs_and_rock_and_roll_and_flyfishing. TimW NO ! Think of the impact of a newsgroup like this ! 1. Psychedelic flies 2. Nude flyfishing (See my fishing partners and understand the concern) 3. Rubber and leather flyvests 4. Fur lined handcuffs replacing zingers 5. LSD based Gink

You talk like these are bad things… TimW

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NO ! Think of the impact of a newsgroup like this ! 7. Latex flies

Hey!  Don’t dis my latex flies ’til you’ve fished em! Charley

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All, Why not just create a T-bone ng? This way people can rag about Tim’s controversial positions without having to sift through boring stuff about fly fishing. Just think, matching wits with "the Bone" in his own ng! Like him, hate him, indifferent? It just doesn’t matter! Maybe it would save time to just change this group from .fly to .bone!

You all take TBone way too seriously. I have read his BS for a year or so on this BB. It occurred to me a while ago that TBone isn’t really obsessed with Fly Fishing issues. What he’s really obsessed with is getting attention on the internet. He makes it sound like he is a totally posessed fly fisherman… I think not. He’s really posessed with making a scene on this BB. I bet he fishes once in a great while and stays glued to  his computer most of the time. Whats the big deal as regards to catch and release? GO FISHING…let most of them go, and keep a few once in a while if it suits you. It isn’t an advanced philosophy course..its fishing, and by God, its supposed to be FUN. Sorry for the long winded speech. I just get tired of TBones grandstanding. He’s wasted alot of folks time on this BB over the years. Have a great fly tying season! Dale Owens

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[deleted] You all take TBone way too seriously. I have read his BS for a year or so on this BB. It occurred to me a while ago that TBone isn’t really obsessed with Fly Fishing issues. What he’s really obsessed with is getting attention on the internet. He makes it sound like he is a totally posessed fly fisherman… I think not. He’s really posessed with making a scene on this BB. I bet he fishes once in a great while and stays glued to  his computer most of the time. Whats the big deal as regards to catch and release? GO FISHING…let most of them go, and keep a few once in a while if it suits you. It isn’t an advanced philosophy course..its fishing, and by God, its supposed to be FUN. Sorry for the long winded speech. I just get tired of TBones grandstanding. He’s wasted alot of folks time on this BB over the years. Have a great fly tying season! Dale Owens

Thank you, Doctor Dale… TimW

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It could be called the "Bitch, moan and disagree Newsgroup"

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It could be called the "Bitch, moan and disagree Newsgroup"

AAAAHHHH BITCH BITCH BITCH, MOAN MOAN MOAN!!         Don’t forget WHINE WHINE WHINE! Mike

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It could be called the "Bitch, moan and disagree Newsgroup"

You read only the tripe of others bitching and moaning about me. TimW

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It could be called the "Bitch, moan and disagree Newsgroup" You read only the tripe of others bitching and moaning about me. TimW

Hubris Alert!

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: All, : Why not just create a T-bone ng? Could be done. It would probably have to be one of those "alt" groups. Usenet would never take something like that seriously. ;- Jon Porter

        wouldn’t it be fair to say that this would be a clear example of a ng that only a mutha could love?         a. wayne harrison

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   Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly    As for TV, the media’s not ready for T-Bone.    Mitch You’re saying T-Bone is a TV?  I thought we’d already discussed this! cheers,         -tgades

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…Anyone ever seen T-bone? Is he too ugly for "mass media" in America? …..People who can’t be out "steelheading" want to know?….;)

T-Bone looks like, well, a cross between Phil Donahue and Tom Sellek… Keeps his mustache well-stocked with lunch… and can dress up sneakers better than just about anyone… As for TV, the media’s not ready for T-Bone. Mitch

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Why not just create a T-bone ng? This way people can rag about Tim’s controversial positions without having to sift through boring stuff about fly fishing. Just think, matching wits with "the Bone" in his own ng! Like him, hate him, indifferent? It just doesn’t matter! Maybe it would save time to just change this group from .fly to .bone!

NOOOOOOOO! I’d rather see T-bone have any interactive T.V.show. Sort of a cross, between "The Red Green Show" and Ricky Lake.  Then; there could be a fan club. Then a website…WWW.T-Bone. com…where you can buy T-shirts,fishing hats, T-bone hand-tied flies, his "World Famous Home-brew, and the New limited edition.. T-bone Grand Cherokee.  I can picture the first shows guests:  Powesland on animal rites; Kranak on Cat fur dubbing technigues; Gerke on "What makes America great..even with "Slick Wille" re-elected; Musky dude on being a "Vegatarian" in the 90’s; and Fletcher, on anything he wants to talk about..(he’s got a damn Lazer beam)……;) One problem..Anyone ever seen T-bone? Is he too ugly for "mass media" in America? …..People who can’t be out "steelheading" want to know?….;)

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:  I can picture the first shows guests:  Powesland on animal rites; : Kranak on Cat fur dubbing technigues; Gerke on "What makes America : great..even with "Slick Wille" re-elected; Musky dude on being a : "Vegatarian" in the 90’s; and Fletcher, on anything he wants to talk : about..(he’s got a damn Lazer beam)……;) Ummm…  I’ve got nine of them.  I collect lasers like y’all collect rods. And I would boycott the show if you did not talk a little art to the folks at home. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

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:  I can picture the first shows guests:  Powesland on animal rites; : Kranak on Cat fur dubbing technigues; Gerke on "What makes America : great..even with "Slick Wille" re-elected; Musky dude on being a : "Vegatarian" in the 90’s; and Fletcher, on anything he wants to talk : about..(he’s got a damn Lazer beam)……;) Ummm…  I’ve got nine of them.  I collect lasers like y’all collect rods.

Hey Rick, design a little midge tracking laser system will ya…? I can’t see the little bastards anymore… And I would boycott the show if you did not talk a little art to the folks at home.

We’ll get Tryzna and fart all damn day, if ya want.  Oh, art.  Nevermind ! TimW

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– Chaz Clover "Welcome To Earth!" Will Smith : NOOOOOOOO! I’d rather see T-bone have any interactive T.V.show. : Sort of a cross, between "The Red Green Show" and Ricky Lake. Thats GREAT!  Super idea! :  Then; there could be a fan club. I nominate Powsland for pres! Then a website…WWW.T-Bone. : com…where you can buy T-shirts,fishing hats, T-bone hand-tied flies, : his "World Famous Home-brew, and the New limited edition.. T-bone Grand : Cherokee. I’d like to bid on this web site contract.  I’ll do a world-class job for a percentage of the net:-) :  I can picture the first shows guests:  Powesland on animal rites; : Kranak on Cat fur dubbing technigues; Gerke on "What makes America : great..even with "Slick Wille" re-elected; Musky dude on being a : "Vegatarian" in the 90’s; and Fletcher, on anything he wants to talk : about..(he’s got a damn Lazer beam)……;) Could I do a spot on Bad Flyfishing Haiku? We could make a religion out of him too!  The Church of the Assumptuous Presumption.  Instead of Eucharist we could all sit around and have a Shore Lunch of fresh-caught brookies!  Yum! </chaz

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Question:

Hello fisherman: I have a fresh water fishing bulletin board for posting any fresh water info you would like… my web site is FISHING… stop in, post some info at: http://www.clearlight.com/~tyrone… info welcome from any where in the world…. fly fishing also… fresh or saltwater..

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Hello fisherman: I have a fresh water fishing bulletin board for posting any fresh water info you would like… my web site is FISHING… stop in, post some info at: http://www.clearlight.com/~tyrone… info welcome from any where in the world…. fly fishing also… fresh or saltwater..

I DID CHECK IT OUT.  NOTHING THRILLING!

Response:

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Response:

Question:

: When your guides ice-up and so you try to pee pee and that’s iced up too. : Then it’s too cold to fly fish. I submit it is too cold to fly fish, when the wings on those buggers start to ice up.   — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Assistant professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

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: When your guides ice-up and so you try to pee pee and that’s iced up too. : Then it’s too cold to fly fish. I submit it is too cold to fly fish, when the wings on those buggers start to ice up.   — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Assistant professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

You wouldn’t be much good for steedheading in the Northeast then.  There are several "tricks of the trade," to try to eliminate ice.

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must do wonders for the guides and the rod…

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That stuff is mostly isopropanol, toxic to fish, not good to be spilling in a stream. In fact, probably illegal in some states with stringent regulations (like California.) If you must use stuff like that onstream, be sure to filter it through a loaf of bread first. — Ken Clark Ft. Lupton, CO

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Try using windshield de-icer to keep your guides and flies free of ice.

Research reveals that 9 out of 10 guides prefer BOURBON to keep lubricated.

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Ghillies prefer Scotch, though.

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When the thought of tying flies near a fireplace sounds better’n flying ties in an ice storm.

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Try using windshield de-icer to keep your guides and flies free of ice. Research reveals that 9 out of 10 guides prefer BOURBON to keep lubricated.

IN MY NECK OF THE WOODS THE TEMPERATURE GETS DOWN TO -20/30 C IN JANUARY AND FEBRUARY AND MOST FLY FISHERMEN COULDN’T BE BOTHERED TO CHISEL OUT A 40′X 1′ TRENCH THROUGH THE ICE IN ORDER TO LAY OUT A FLY NICELY.

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When your guides ice-up and so you try to pee pee and that’s iced up too. Then it’s too cold to fly fish.

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depends on how pissed off the old lady is…

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Try using windshield de-icer to keep your guides and flies free of ice. Research reveals that 9 out of 10 guides prefer BOURBON to keep lubricated. IN MY NECK OF THE WOODS THE TEMPERATURE GETS DOWN TO -20/30 C IN JANUARY AND FEBRUARY AND MOST FLY FISHERMEN COULDN’T BE BOTHERED TO CHISEL OUT A 40′X 1′ TRENCH THROUGH THE ICE IN ORDER TO LAY OUT A FLY NICELY.

Haw! you think that’s bad,come down here to Texas for a week. 80 degree lows will make you shiver from head to toe!(well,maybe a little colder)                 Aaron Zee

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Try using windshield de-icer to keep your guides and flies free of ice.

Response:

Question:

I’m new to Eastern Washington.  Does anyone have any information on decent fly- fishing rivers in that area? Any advice is appreciated! Thanks! Greg

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: I’m new to Eastern Washington.  Does : anyone have any information on decent fly- : fishing rivers in that area? : Any advice is appreciated! Yes, buy an Idaho license and use it.  I’m serious. Rick — T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Assistant professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    |  These University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    |  opinions Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. |  are mine.  

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: I’m new to Eastern Washington.  Does : anyone have any information on decent fly- : fishing rivers in that area? : Any advice is appreciated! : Thanks! : Greg

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Greg, try fishing the Yakima and Cle Elum rivers for starters. –

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Pick up a GAZETEER (spelling questionable) for WA state and look for all the Rivers and start exploring.

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Greg, the Yakima River has been restored as a decent fishery. Amato Publications out of Portland, Ore, publishes a book called the River Journal. They featured the Yakima a few months ago. They are beautiful books and provide a great deal of information about where and what to fish, along with other interesting facts. I also have friends who use to fish the Columbia for Steelhead at Ringold. This is a section of the river north of Richland. Ask any fishing store for directions and I am sure they could point you in that direction. Good luck and rip some lips.

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Question:

Hello all, I just wanted to let you know about a fine source of literature that covers the trout of the Sierra mountain range.  The book is:   _Sierra Trout Guide_   by Ralph Cutter   1991   Frank Amato Publications   Box 82112   Portland, Oregon   97282   (503) 653-8108   ISBN:  1-878175-02-5  (Softbound–$19.95)   ISBN:  1-878175-03-3  (Hardbound–???) For those that may have an earlier edition of this book, Mr. Cutter claims that this (revised) edition contains over 1200 changes in the trout distribution charts, more scientific genealogy, and more detailed insect information. This book comprises ten years of research over which Ralph Cutter has accumulated probably the most extensive collection of Sierra trout-related information to be found anywhere!  (When I read this book, I was seriously impressed.)  For each species of trout found in the Sierra mountain range, Mr. Cutter describes the history (including introduction and evolution), physique, location, and decline or possible extinction of its populations. Accompanying all descriptions are exceptional illustrations by Joe Tomelleri. Mr. Cutter also includes short chapters covering tackle and hiking in the Sierra environment. The most useful information for fishing persons is the incredible collection of trout location and feeding information.  Mr. Cutter has charts that list the trout that inhabit 550 rivers and 1700 lakes.  However, I was most impressed by the section on trout food which describes the reproduction cycle, physique, and habits of many insects and other life.  Some descriptions even include the time of day which some insects usually appear in the open!  There is also a time table for insect hatchings on the Truckee river. Mr. Cutter’s writing reflects a high sensitivity and appreciation for our (and the trouts’) environment.  This book would make a great gift, but more importantly, I think it’s a must for every Sierra trout angler! Good fishing, Randal

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Nice report – Thanks, –Alan

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Hello all, I just wanted to let you know about a fine source of literature that covers the trout of the Sierra mountain range.  The book is:  _Sierra Trout Guide_  by Ralph Cutter

I’d like to second the recommendation.   For those that may have an earlier edition of this book, Mr. Cutter claims that this (revised) edition contains over 1200 changes in the trout distribution charts, more scientific genealogy, and more detailed insect information.

I have both editions.  They bear little resemblance to each other.  The first edition had an interesting chapter on the history of trout Native to the Sierra.  It turned into a fairly diatribe that was more an expressing of opinions about C&R, river management, etc. than factual information.  Fortunately, his new edition focuses on facts rather than opinions.   One claim that Ralph Cutter makes is that Sierra trout do not feed on adult mosquitoes.  I don’t know if they do or not but they’ll hit an imitation. For each species of trout found in the Sierra mountain range, Mr. Cutter describes the history (including introduction and evolution), physique, location, and decline or possible extinction of its populations. Accompanying all descriptions are exceptional illustrations by Joe Tomelleri. the time of day which some insects usually appear in the open!  There is also a time table for insect hatchings on the Truckee river.

Ralph and Lisa Cutter live in Truckee.  I know a couple of people that have taken their flyfishing and flytying classes.  The general flyfishing/casting class got lots of kudos.  The flytying class didn’t. — John Fereira Viacom Cable Pleasanton, CA

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