Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Willi,  this sounds similar to the english E. danica indeed.  Does the Green Drake have a pale cream body with a couple of brown segments near the tail, alongside a slight olive colouring of the thorax / wing area and 3 long tail fibres? Michael, perhaps I can give some info that you may find interesting.  In 1962 the Western Green Drake was changed from Ephemerella grandis to Drunella grandis.  In England, Green Drakes are Ephemera danica, in the eastern US they are Ephemera guttulata and in the western US Drunella grandis. Description: BIOLOGOY OF MAYFLIES, 1935 "Abdominal segments dark purplish brown with wide pale margins, so as to appear conspicuously ringed." Revised in 1962 by Allen and Edmunds "Terga largely purplish brown with pale pleural and posterior margins, giving a distinct ringed appearance to the abdomen." A description of the Western Green Drake from SPINNERS by Nemes: ‘There is little green in the whole insect, although the base of the wings has a yellowy green cast to it, which is very prominent on the dun. The spinner appears green perhaps because of the pale yellow stripes between the dark, purply brown segments.  Body length is 3/4".  Three tails almost twice as long.  Wings: hyaline, with a span of 1 and 1/2".’ A very generic hatch chart that will give you a general idea of various hatch times: http://www.orvis.com/intro.asp?dir_id=&Group_ID=&subject=253&cktst=true HTH. —

Thanks Warren,  the two insects do sound very similar indeed:  very good fun to fish with here in the UK ~ have you ever fished a Green Drake hatch?  Are they common on most rivers or are they fairly limited in extent (UK is tiny compared to States, so I suppose that US environments vary wildly) .  I would imagine that the north east of the States is the most similar to the environment of the UK  (New England & New Hampshire might be a possible clue, but since I’ve never been there, I don’t really know ?) Regards, Mike.

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Willi,  this sounds similar to the english E. danica indeed.  Does the Green Drake have a pale cream body with a couple of brown segments near the tail, alongside a slight olive colouring of the thorax / wing area and 3 long tail fibres?

Michael, perhaps I can give some info that you may find interesting.  In 1962 the Western Green Drake was changed from Ephemerella grandis to Drunella grandis.  In England, Green Drakes are Ephemera danica, in the eastern US they are Ephemera guttulata and in the western US Drunella grandis.   Description: BIOLOGOY OF MAYFLIES, 1935 "Abdominal segments dark purplish brown with wide pale margins, so as to appear conspicuously ringed." Revised in 1962 by Allen and Edmunds "Terga largely purplish brown with pale pleural and posterior margins, giving a distinct ringed appearance to the abdomen." A description of the Western Green Drake from SPINNERS by Nemes: ‘There is little green in the whole insect, although the base of the wings has a yellowy green cast to it, which is very prominent on the dun.   The spinner appears green perhaps because of the pale yellow stripes between the dark, purply brown segments.  Body length is 3/4".  Three tails almost twice as long.  Wings: hyaline, with a span of 1 and 1/2".’ A very generic hatch chart that will give you a general idea of various hatch times: http://www.orvis.com/intro.asp?dir_id=&Group_ID=&subject=253&cktst=true HTH. — Warren change addy to yahoo for email Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt3/HFclave.html

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Our snowpack percentage increased by 16% this weekend and they are already talking about more flooding because the temps this weekend are supposed to get up into the 90’s.

If it’s not one damn thing, it’s something else. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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didn’t stick much in the valley.  The mountains are white again though. Our snowpack percentage increased by 16% this weekend and they are already talking about more flooding because the temps this weekend are supposed to get up into the 90’s.

Our snowpack is a whopping 293% and the rivers are running at normal levels (16,300 cfs) on the lower Clark Fork. Heading up to Rock Creek with the Fam on Thursday. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

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Make sure to have the appropriate size/color quigley cripple. It’s a great pattern during the Green Drake hatch on the Bitterroot, which should be starting in 2 or 3 weeks.

Will do.  I still have your fly from one of the swaps set aside as my example pattern. More snow down to about 4000 feet here. We’ve had at least a couple of inches of rain in the past 4 days or so. I hope other parched places in the west are getting this.

Same here.  Not sure how much rain we received total, but it rained most of the weekend and most of yesterday too.  We had snow at times, but it didn’t stick much in the valley.  The mountains are white again though.   Our snowpack percentage increased by 16% this weekend and they are already talking about more flooding because the temps this weekend are supposed to get up into the 90’s. — Warren change addy to yahoo for email Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt3/HFclave.html

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Make sure to have the appropriate size/color quigley cripple. It’s a great pattern during the Green Drake hatch on the Bitterroot, which should be starting in 2 or 3 weeks. More snow down to about 4000 feet here. We’ve had at least a couple of inches of rain in the past 4 days or so. I hope other parched places in the west are getting this. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have never fished an actual Green Drake "hatch" (like the glorious ones you read about in various magazines or books), but have fished Green Drakes while they were out.  In my experience, they are fairly common in that they are represented in a large geographic area, but rare in that they are a short-lived hatch and prefer certain types of water. Personally I like the Grey and Brown Drakes better because they are more common, probably because they have a longer hatch period, but they seem to be more widespread too.  That may be because they have the longer "hatch" though…..  I am hoping to fish some Green Drakes this weekend. Never fished the famous hatch on this river, but supposedly it is everything that you are talking about and more.  Unfortunately it brings out the crowds too.

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Thanks Warren,  the two insects do sound very similar indeed:  very good fun to fish with here in the UK ~ have you ever fished a Green Drake hatch?  Are they common on most rivers or are they fairly limited in extent (UK is tiny compared to States, so I suppose that US environments vary wildly) .  I would imagine that the north east of the States is the most similar to the environment of the UK  (New England & New Hampshire might be a possible clue, but since I’ve never been there, I don’t really know ?)

I have never fished an actual Green Drake "hatch" (like the glorious ones you read about in various magazines or books), but have fished Green Drakes while they were out.  In my experience, they are fairly common in that they are represented in a large geographic area, but rare in that they are a short-lived hatch and prefer certain types of water.   Personally I like the Grey and Brown Drakes better because they are more common, probably because they have a longer hatch period, but they seem to be more widespread too.  That may be because they have the longer "hatch" though…..  I am hoping to fish some Green Drakes this weekend.   Never fished the famous hatch on this river, but supposedly it is everything that you are talking about and more.  Unfortunately it brings out the crowds too. — Warren change addy to yahoo for email Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt3/HFclave.html

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks for the info Gary,  I checked the pictures but my outlook express newsgroup reader told me that I couldn’t view the pictures because there were no longer there, or words to similar effect.  I assume that you took the photos?  Do the green drakes in the Delaware hatch in a fortnight around about the end of May? Regards, Michael. It is really for only 4 or 5 days on the Delaware I am told. Most hatch charts make it the last fortnight of May though. If you want the photos I would be glad to email them to you. Just let me know.

Thanks Gary,  yes indeed I would quite like to see the pikkies, so please email them to me.  From what you say it seems like the english Mayfly is similar to the american Green Drake. Regards, Michael.

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Willi,  I think I wasn’t making myself clear in the previous post of mine: what I meant was does the green drake flies that you saw have the features that I mentioned, i.e. pale body with brown segments near tail and a pale olive hackle & wing ~ and of course the 3 long tail fibres?

Michael, FWIW, I posted several pics a few days back on alt.binaries.pictures.fishing. Flies were green drakes from the Delaware River in NY State. You above desc is compares well to the US Eastern Green Drake. I am sure it would be not difficult to find the pattern online. Where I am now, I cannot help! Best regards, Gary

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Willi,  this sounds similar to the english E. danica indeed.  Does the Green Drake have a pale cream body with a couple of brown segments near the tail, alongside a slight olive colouring of the thorax / wing area and 3 long tail fibres? Like I said, I’ve never seen one. There are people on ROFF who have.  When danica is hatching, the big trout all congregate in the slow pool tails and hunt down the hatching nymphs and emerging duns furiously.  After the danica has gone by, the pool tails become devoid of big trout My guess is that you would find them there at sunset and into the night.

The Western Green Drake is Drunella grandis or Drunella doddsi. The duns are pretty much an olive color all over. They emerge in the middle of the day, and they darken in color after emergence. The cool thing about the Green Drakes, from a flyfisherman’s point of view, is that the duns spend a long time on the surface, and there are lots of cripples. The mating flights and the spinner falls occur very late and into the night. These are big mayflies, but not nearly as big as the Brown Drake. The Big Wood River in Idaho has a superb Green Drake hatch in June. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Willi,  this sounds similar to the english E. danica indeed.  Does the Green Drake have a pale cream body with a couple of brown segments near the tail, alongside a slight olive colouring of the thorax / wing area and 3 long tail fibres? Like I said, I’ve never seen one. There are people on ROFF who have. Willi,  I think I wasn’t making myself clear in the previous post of mine: what I meant was does the green drake flies that you saw have the features that I mentioned, i.e. pale body with brown segments near tail and a pale olive hackle & wing ~ and of course the 3 long tail fibres?

Many apologies for my making myself unclear yet again.  What I really mean is not the natural flies that you haven’t seen, but the artificials that your friend showed you. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Willi,  I think I wasn’t making myself clear in the previous post of mine: what I meant was does the green drake flies that you saw have the features that I mentioned, i.e. pale body with brown segments near tail and a pale olive hackle & wing ~ and of course the 3 long tail fibres? Michael, FWIW, I posted several pics a few days back on alt.binaries.pictures.fishing. Flies were green drakes from the Delaware River in NY State. You above desc is compares well to the US Eastern Green Drake. I am sure it would be not difficult to find the pattern online. Where I am now, I cannot help!

Thanks for the info Gary,  I checked the pictures but my outlook express newsgroup reader told me that I couldn’t view the pictures because there were no longer there, or words to similar effect.  I assume that you took the photos?  Do the green drakes in the Delaware hatch in a fortnight around about the end of May? Regards, Michael.

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Thanks for the info Gary,  I checked the pictures but my outlook express newsgroup reader told me that I couldn’t view the pictures because there were no longer there, or words to similar effect.  I assume that you took the photos?  Do the green drakes in the Delaware hatch in a fortnight around about the end of May? Regards, Michael.

It is really for only 4 or 5 days on the Delaware I am told. Most hatch charts make it the last fortnight of May though. If you want the photos I would be glad to email them to you. Just let me know. Best, Gary

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Willi,  this sounds similar to the english E. danica indeed.  Does the Green Drake have a pale cream body with a couple of brown segments near the tail, alongside a slight olive colouring of the thorax / wing area and 3 long tail fibres? Like I said, I’ve never seen one. There are people on ROFF who have.

Willi,  I think I wasn’t making myself clear in the previous post of mine: what I meant was does the green drake flies that you saw have the features that I mentioned, i.e. pale body with brown segments near tail and a pale olive hackle & wing ~ and of course the 3 long tail fibres?  When danica is hatching, the big trout all congregate in the slow pool tails and hunt down the hatching nymphs and emerging duns furiously.  After the danica has gone by, the pool tails become devoid of big trout My guess is that you would find them there at sunset and into the night.

I have only fished into the night a few times when I was a kid.  The river in light is a wonderous place,  but for a 10 year old,  the darkness of night makes the water kind of creepy.   In ordinary days out fishing these days,  I have to be home by a reasonable hour  (wife & all that…) and so I’ll probably not get much opportunities for night / evening fishing ~ besides, 21 years later,  I still remember how creepy the river became in darkening light PS,  I had an excellent day’s fishing on my favourite stretch today.  The weather was excellent  (overcast, no wind and no rain but fairly warm) and there was a lot  of activity taking place.  The E. danica Mayfly spinners were dancing around laying their eggs.  I was amazed at how many there were, considering the carnage that was wrought upon the duns.  Anyhow,  I had a number of pheasant tail dryflies that I had already chosen to use for the day.  The fly is a simple creation of  3 PT fibres for the tail & body,  and a ginger cock hackle wound fairly bushy.  I have a streamlined variant with less hackle to be used in the really tricky spots where I have to cast under overhanging branches,  but that is not a durable floater for general fishing.  I caught about 20 fish at an average of about 3/4 lb each fish and quite a few indeed over the pound mark ~ 1 to be cooked on the smoker tomorrow.  This season has seen a beefing up of the fish stock and I’m sure that the fish are bigger  than that that I have become used to over the 6 years that I have fished this stream.  I saw an absolute clonker leap several feet out of the water, it looked good for 2 pounds.  However by the time that I reached this fish, the river went strange and my fly had become out of vogue ~ nothing went for my fly at all! Half an hour earlier I had just finished a period of about 3 hours whereby most fish that I covered rose to my fly.  I had been very pleased with the fly’s performance,  just as I had expected it to do since it is a good choice for this time of the year  (and it is easy to tie up too).  As I worked my way slowly towards the area where I saw the big fish rise,  I encountered some smaller fish bulging.  I wanted to turn these fish downstream of me without spooking the big trout, and so aimed to hook up as many of these fish as I could and bring them downstream and then release the tension in the line so that the hook falls out (no barbs) and releases the fish.  This is a good method of clearing a shallow section of water so that the angler may proceed slightly further upstream to a target fish. I started this plan,  but to no avail!  The fish totally stopped taking my fly,  and by the time I reached the area where the big one had been rising I did not have a single rise, despite a few fly changes, including a PT nymph. I have to admit defeat on this pool / glide, as I couldn’t entice a thing despite seeing many rises.  I like this pool as it a challenging but beautiful stretch of water some 50 yards long with many fish. Cheers for now, Michael.

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From the pictures I called up, the most similar in size and appearance to the Danica seems to be the Green Drake. Personally, I’ve never fished a Drake hatch, but there are other posters here that have and do. Wayne Knight, tries to make a yearly pilgramage to fish the Hex hatch in Michigan. He sent me some flies he uses for this hatch. They’re MUCH bigger than any Mayfly I’ve seen. The flies he sent are bigger than many flies I use for bass!

Willi,  this sounds similar to the english E. danica indeed.  Does the Green Drake have a pale cream body with a couple of brown segments near the tail, alongside a slight olive colouring of the thorax / wing area and 3 long tail fibres? The flight of a newly hatched Mayfly E. danica dun is quite a sight indeed. The creatures fly relatively slowly with rapid whirring of the wings and with the tail more or less pointing towards the water.  It takes them a bit of time to get the momentum up and during this time they are quite prone to aerial assults by the trout! I thoroughly recommend your seeing a drake hatch as it is like a festival on the stream.  The trout really go crazy and severely reveal their presence with savage swirls / splashes / leaps and so on.  On the rivers that I fish that have the E. danica,  it seems like the hatching of this burrowing nymph is the trout’s primary seasonal harvest, and the trouts’ indulgence is such that caution is temporarily thrown to the wind. After the E. danica hatch is over the river quietens down progressively through the months June July & August.  In late August the stream can be very quiet indeed,  and only the nymph seems to be successful in enticing fish to participate in my days’ operations.  During September,  things liven up a little, but by the end of the month it becomes close season,  with the cold winter days soon to come. I have come to believe that the hatching out of the E. danica is more or less the trouts’ raison d’etre, as it effectively forms the peak of the trouts’ feeding activities. [Just like for me,  catching trout on a beautiful stream is my raison d'etre!!!!] Without the E. danica, the trout hold station and help themselves only to the morcels that pass by, with the odd excursion to snatch a sedge; little energy is expended on such table scraps.  When danica is hatching, the big trout all congregate in the slow pool tails and hunt down the hatching nymphs and emerging duns furiously.  After the danica has gone by, the pool tails become devoid of big trout , and the yearlings / 2 year olds all return to their regular (non-danica) places.  The big trout then all disappear back to their lies in various alder roots at the heads of runs & pools and become somewhat more  difficult to catch until the next danica hatch that is…. In England,  the month of May is the dryfly month, as that is when the upwinged flies start to hatch out in earnest.  The last 2 weeks in May and the first week of June are really busy days with the dryfly and it is great fun just to be there: fishing and catching fish is merely the icing on the cake.  That being said,  I also like the "dogdays" of late summer too, as exploration work with the nymph is just as much fun as fishing the dryfly, and more demanding of the angler’s concentration and skills etc. Regards, Michael.

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Willi,  this sounds similar to the english E. danica indeed.  Does the Green Drake have a pale cream body with a couple of brown segments near the tail, alongside a slight olive colouring of the thorax / wing area and 3 long tail fibres?

Like I said, I’ve never seen one. There are people on ROFF who have.  When danica is hatching, the big trout all congregate in the slow pool tails and hunt down the hatching nymphs and emerging duns furiously.  After the danica has gone by, the pool tails become devoid of big trout

My guess is that you would find them there at sunset and into the night. Willi

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Snip. Thanks. Very well-written and a useful read.

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[a very informative snip] These types of feeding lies are not unique to this stretch of river. I’ve found similar unconventional feeding lies in many waters I’ve fished. They are not as readily apparent as "classic" lies but are definitely worth seeking out. Willi

Willi, just found this little gem of a post. It seems like you’re describing the upper Grand, just below Belwood dam – long stretches of medium-slow to slow water broken by riffles and chutes.  During hatches and off-colour water, these slow areas can be full of fish but in clear, low, no-hatch conditions they seem devoid of fish.  This river has a limestone bottom that is fairly flat in spots yet it has underwater ledges that change the depth by 6" or so, providing holding spots for fish.  I’ll work these waters from top to bottom, side-to-side with a streamer by wading downstream right down the middle and casting bank to bank. I’ve seen the "truck bed coverage" pattern of rising fish in slow water and though I have caught them on dries, though anticipating their next move can be frustrating (especially in a trico spinner fall) so I often fish them with a small streamer run very shallow and fast.  Even though they are keyed on a specific bug, they will usually smack a well presented streamer, since they are already in the feeding mood. Your post is a clear statement that anglers should spend as much time observing as they spend fishing. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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One question for you Willi:  do you have the English Mayfly (E. danica) over on your side?  Over here we have a fortnight (just finished) of total mayhem on the troutstream when these ephemeral leviathans hatch out.  

I did a web search and it seems that we don’t have that specific Mayfly although we do have a number of burrowing Mayflies across the country that are generically called Drakes. These Drake hatches bring up the big fish and also bring out anglers from all over to fish them.   From the pictures I called up, the most similar in size and appearance

to the Danica seems to be the Green Drake. Personally, I’ve never fished a Drake hatch, but there are other posters here that have and do. Wayne Knight, tries to make a yearly pilgramage to fish the Hex hatch in Michigan. He sent me some flies he uses for this hatch. They’re MUCH bigger than any Mayfly I’ve seen. The flies he sent are bigger than many flies I use for bass! The Mayflies on my home river are mainly small, 18 to 22. The exception is a large bright yellow Mayfly that hatches at dusk and into the night in July and August. I caught the largest trout I’ve taken on a dry during this hatch. The problem is that the hatch is strong enough to really interest the fish only once every five years or so. While at the Penn’s Clave, I got to see and fish some March Brown Mayflies. I thought they were huge but I was told that they were small compared to the Green Drakes. Willi

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Good stuff snipped. Willi,  this is an excellent post and something that I have also experienced, albeit in a very much minor scale to yours.  My rivers are much smaller than yours, however the trout do tend to move around in a similar fashion although probably proportionally to the size of the rivers concerned.  I have often found trout in the most bizarre places in the stream that I ordinarily wouldn’t have bothered casting to.  It is only when I have seen the sizeable fish flee from my upstream wading that I have gathered their presence in these particular spots, or else I have been very much surprised by a very much swirlsome rise in a strange spot.   In later visits I would target these areas, and indeed some good trout have been taken by my rod  from these previously "fishless" spots. On my fave stream  (of which I posted a pikkie in ABPF some weeks ago) there is a cow drinking spot that is at the very tail end of a long slow glide / straight pool.  Immediately in front of the shallow draining section are often very big fish for the river 1.5lb plus) in the very shallow water (1 foot deep).   I initially found these fish out years ago by all of their massive bow waves as they all shot off when I went wading up to them in ignorance.  I paid attention to this observation and over the years have had a lot of fun trying to deceive these fish.  On average, these trout in this spot have bettered my tactics as it is quite difficult to present a fly to them in consideration of the prevailing circumstances. These are very tricky fish to cast to with my small 6 foot rod:  in order not to scare the fish by my presence, I have to cast at the fish whilst standing in fast water ~ if I am not careful,  the drag on my line closest to me will accelerate the fly and drag it too fast past the fish.  I have to be sure to collect line quickly and to hold the rod as high as possible to avoid excessive downstream drag on the fly.  My most favoured approach is to use a PT nymph and pitch it about 18 inches upstream of the trout with a snaky cast (i.e. twang the flyline taut about 1 foot above the surface of the water to induce curves in the flyline / leader.  The trick is to try to mend the flyline so as the fly doesn’t suddenly accelerate when the curves are all brought straight by the dragging current. A nice slow start by the nymph is much preferred over the sudden acceleration.  Recently I have tried to get back into dryfly fishing, and this spot is very tricky indeed with the floating fly, however a bushier fly gives more time for the fly to be drifted over the trout before the dreaded drag acceleration.  (that being said,  I have caught plenty of fish with a dragging fly (usually accidentally) !!. One question for you Willi:  do you have the English Mayfly (E. danica) over on your side?  Over here we have a fortnight (just finished) of total mayhem on the troutstream when these ephemeral leviathans hatch out.  The trout all go completely nuts for them,  and the biggies come out into the pool tails and are relatively prone to the fly angler for the first half of the fortnight at least.  The trout seem to be so transfixed with the Mayfly that they will not  see the error of the angler.   For the rest of the year the biggies seem to disappear and are difficult to engage.  During the Mayfly (in England the Mayfly is a specific species of ephemerid, and it is disproportionally bigger than most other upwinged aquatic fly) fortnight the regular structure of trout feeding locations is more or less inverted and we find the big fish out in the open slow water, chasing down mayfly duns anywhere they see them.  I have seen on many occasions trout leap clear of the water to intercept an E. danica as it fluttered a foot or so over the water’s surface. Regards, Michael.

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There is a section of my home river where a walking/biking/jogging path runs above the river on a bluff for about a half mile. This high vantage point provides an unusual and ideal opportunity to observe the comings and going of the trout. It took me a couple of years before I began to utilize this viewing area. At first, I used the path to walk from one spot to the next or else I just waded along the banks of the river. One day, I happened to stop along the path and while looking down into the river saw a good fish feeding, suspended in the water about a foot below the surface, in an area I had ignored in the past. I took the time to check out more of the area, and found numerous good fish feeding in areas that I had passed by before because they didn’t "fit the mold" of good spots. After this first encounter, I’ve made it a habit to make observations of this stretch of water from the overlooking path on a consistent basis. I’ve learned a number of things watching the trout in this area over the years but two things I’ve learned that have changed the way I fish are: trout will move considerable distances to feed and they will choose feeding stations that are "unconventional" based on what is described by most of the angling literature. I’ve been watching these trout for most of the fifteen years I’ve lived here and have found that different fish, for their own reasons, choose different feeding areas. From my observations, it seems that the same fish choose the same stations while actively feeding, at least during water levels where I can observe and/or fish. Trout feed in a variety of locations throughout a stream or river. Some trout move very little from their holding positions to feed even during strong hatches. There are other fish who leave their holding locations to move to active feeding stations. Many of them will do this at specific times of the day depending on the season and will then return to their deeper holding water. I’ve followed fish for several hundred yards as they return to the pool after being spooked off their feeding station. Hatches will also draw them to these areas even if these hatches are at different times than their "regular" schedule. I enjoy fishing for and finding these actively feeding fish for a number of reasons. The fish have moved into these positions for one reason only, to feed and because of this, they are very vulnerable to being caught. Another reason that these fish are worth pursuing is that many of these areas are ignored by the average angler and more often produce better fish. In heavily fished water, and especially in water with open regulations, the better fish have a tendency to feed in areas where they aren’t likely to be caught. An Overview of this Stretch of Observable Water The bottom end of this stretch is the largest and deepest pool in about four or five miles of river that is form by a small diversion dam. This massive pool holds alot of fish. The head of the pool is a broad area of moderate current. The water is slower moving and the bottom more regular than the heads of pools on most western waters. Upstream from the head there is a long flat that runs upstream for about a third of a mile. The current is very moderate to slow and the bottom is regular with very few features. It averages about three feet in depth during higher water conditions, about two feet during average conditions and as low as a foot during low water conditions. There are a few depressions in this stretch where the water is about twice the average depth. At the upstream end of this flat there is a run about two hundred feet in length made up of irregular, faster, slightly deeper water. Upstream of the run there is a short area of very shallow rapid/pocket water.   The Head of the Pool The head of the pool always holds some fish, but during nonfeeding times, the fish are all small. During periods of feeding activity, a good number of fish utilize the head of the pool. There is usually a pod of fish just off the near bank in the deepest water just upstream of the pool. These are moderate sized fish although I’ve seen one or two very big ones over the years. This is classic feeding water but it is also the heaviest fished part of this stretch of river. I think that there would be more, better fish using this feeding station but since it is heavily fished and the river has open regulations, I think the better fish that utilize it are regularly caught and kept. Just upstream, the water gains a bit of velocity as it becomes more shallow. There are scattered fish throughout this area using the slightly bigger rocks or slight depressions to deflect the current while they feed on the food being swept by. These trout, as a rule, are better than average sized fish. The largest number of fish that feed in the head of the pool, feed on the sloping bar of shallow water on the far side of the river. The bar starts at the far bank and gradually deepens to about three feet in depth until it drops off into the pool at the head. This bar seldom gets fished because it is where 90%+ of the anglers stand to fish the obvious deep run along the near bank. The fish on this bar will consistently feed in water from one to three feet deep but will move into water just inches deep if the hatch is heavy and the sun isn’t direct. This sloping bar holds all sizes of fish. I caught the biggest fish I’ve caught in the river on this bar. It was caught at sunset on a summer eve, on a large dry in very shallow water where I saw it pushing wakes of water as it fed.   The Long Flat The next upstream stretch is the longest area of this section, almost about a third of a mile in length. It is a very featureless stretch of slow to moderately moving water. Aside from a few scattered fish that have found small niches, there is very little holding water and during nonfeeding times, it is virtually devoid of fish. It is water that in the past, I had always considered to be waste water. However, each morning and evening during the "season" trout move up from the pool to feed in this area. Hatches during the day will also bring fish up from the downstream pool. Some fish set up typical feeding stations but because of the slow current speed in many areas, some of the trout will set up a territory and cruise, more like lake dwelling fish. These fish will typically set up a feeding pattern covering an area typically about the size of large truck’s bed. They’ll feed at their upstream limit, then drift back and to the side to feed again and then repeat this pattern until they reach their downstream limit.  Then the fish will swim back to its starting position and start the cycle over again. In this apparently, featureless area, most of the feeding stations or territories are difficult or impossible to find without directly observing the fish from the elevated bank because there are no obvious visual cues that suggest a good lie. Even when observing the fish in their stations/territories, it is usually impossible to discern what advantage their chosen area has over another seemingly identical area that never holds a fish. This long stretch of water will produce all sizes of fish. Again I’ve observed that the very few "obvious" spots, generally don’t hold the best fish. Again, I believe that this is because the better fish that use these obvious areas are caught and kept. The Top Run and Rapids Section The broken surface of the water in this area makes direct observation impossible except during very low water levels. Most of the observations I’ve made are based on fish rising, bulging or pushing water while feeding as well as by angling for them. There are a few deeper spots in this area as well as some undercuts that also serve as holding water. Even though this area is fished fairly heavily, it consistently produces better fish. However, once again the best fish tend to be in areas that are either neglected by other anglers ie. VERY shallow sections or are difficult to fish ie undercut willows. All the typical lies in this area hold fish. Each seam, back eddy, pocket, depression, etc. has the potential of a fish. Because of its broken and somewhat deeper water, this is the only area in this whole stretch of river that will hold better fish during "off" times. During feeding periods, more fish will move into this area from the downstream pool. I’ve had some exceptional days on this area, especially during hatches. However, most of the best fish I’ve taken from this area have been in the VERY shallow water in the edges of the rapids at the top of the run. Sometimes they’ll feed in water so shallow that I’ve spotted the fish by the bulges of water they pushed upward while they’re feeding. Shallow areas like these are ignored by virtually all anglers. The other spot in this area where I’ve consistently caught good fish is a small eddy behind a log protruding from the bank. This spot is difficult to fish and requires an unconventional approach to cover correctly. These types of feeding lies are not unique to this stretch of river. I’ve found similar unconventional feeding lies in many waters I’ve fished. They are not as readily apparent as "classic" lies but are definitely worth seeking out. Willi

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Question:

I rented a felluca for day sailing. I think that it would be little trouble to get one for a fair cruise.

Excellent idea, and definitely in my style. —      Mark Anderson – DBA Riparia Resources    www.riparia.org Medical info for cruisers and woodworkers.  Boatbuilding plans. Artistic photography       Landscapes – Nautical and marine – Abstracts, extracts and themes.

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I’m curious as to whether it is practical to cruise up and down the Nile R. with a private yacht. Legalities and other hassles: Practical draft limitations: Safety and pleasurability of your reception by the Egyptians: Any other information that may be of interest: —      Mark Anderson – DBA Riparia Resources    www.riparia.org

I rented a felluca for day sailing. I think that it would be little trouble to get one for a fair cruise. It would avoid all the problems of a rich-looking yacht. I’d not worry too much about piracy or big-deal problems. It’s petty theft that gets you. — Bernard W. Joseph     http://www.appliedgrammar.com   "Speak to us of Emailia."    James Joyce    FINNEGANS WAKE

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Last month I sailed a felucca from Aswan to Edfu, so based on limited knowledge of this stretch of water:

Thanks Tony, yours was the kind of info I was looking for.  As to the political climate, those responses are taken in mind, and as expected. For my own purposes, however, the time I might be taking this cruise will be at least several years into the future, so I’ll hope that the political situation might change by then.  In any event, it’ll be taken into account whenever, and probably I’d get the opinion of the state dept. first. —      Mark Anderson – DBA Riparia Resources    www.riparia.org Medical info for cruisers and woodworkers.  Boatbuilding plans. Artistic photography       Landscapes – Nautical and marine – Abstracts, extracts and themes.

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A rich American cruising his flashy yacht in the Middle East…… Now THERE’s a TARGET of OPPORTUNITY for you. Hated by millions of Arabs because of our undying support for the Israeli War Machine…..tearing up Palestinians. Can you answer your own question?  PLEASE DON’T!

When I was in Egypt a quite few years ago (just after Egypt and Israel "normalized" relations) the average Egyptian on the street preferred Israeli money to Egyptian money for the small cash purchases.  And that was after a 10 to 1 devaluation of Israeli money. Things certainly may have changed in the past 20 years but back then they were very friendly to American tourists.  The only thing that had me feeling unsafe was the way they drive, especially in and around Cairo.  You probably heard about driving in Italy.  Cairo is much worse. Steve

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Oh, I think the average Egyptian is still "American friendly".  Most Arabs I ever met when I lived there were very pro-American and simply LOVED Yankee dollars.  However, times have changed, not the people. This Al Queda network is only one of many anti-American networks with supporters across a wide spectrum of Arab countries.  Bombs are going off almost every day, now. Flashing the big yacht in their faces, and all the cash that goes along with it, attracts attention.  Word is passed to the network from the supporters who will never see their own cars, much less a flashy yacht.  The damned thing is a great "target" and would be a prize on any terrorist’s list.  Egypt is eat up with anti-Israeli, and therefore anti-American, groups. It just seems stupid to put the family, the boat and his personal safety in harm’s way flashing that yacht in their faces after 9/11. Middle East changed that day.  Until the "brothers" in Afghanistan get the word spread out that America is NOT the enemy, and saved them from the gangsters who were killing the country, I’d pick a nice, quiet island someplace for the flashy yacht full of Yankees.  With so MANY beautiful places on the planet, why take the chance? Larry We fail, miserably, to see how hated we are because of our support for Israel, no matter who they kill, no matter what they do.  You have to live in an Arab country to really feel it.

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Yotties are not tourists – we aren’t treated as tourists in most places, don’t use the same visas, don’t follow the same rules, processes, etc.  Most countries treat yotties same as commercial ships, fishing vessels, etc – crew lists, clearances, paid for visas, etc   They know we don’t stay in hotels, buy loads of tourist crap, spend big in restaurants, etc.  We’re not "respected" and "protected" in the same way at all.  We aren’t part of that industry. On Egypt – many cruising friends have transited the Suez and universally agreed (much to my disappointment) that Egypt is a miserable shithole of a country to cruise.  Big theft and bribe problems. They get through there as quickly as possible with as short and few stops as necessary. It’s much easier and safe to park the boat in Cypress in a marina and fly in/out of Egypt – as a respected and protected tourist. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [...] It just seems stupid to put the family, the boat and his personal safety in harm’s way flashing that yacht in their faces after 9/11. Middle East changed that day.  Until the "brothers" in Afghanistan get the word spread out that America is NOT the enemy, and saved them from the gangsters who were killing the country, I’d pick a nice, quiet island someplace for the flashy yacht full of Yankees.  With so MANY beautiful places on the planet, why take the chance? Personally, I don’t think it would be all that much of a chance.  At least compared to many other beautiful places people cruise to.  Egypt definitely had a problem a while ago with terrorists attacking visitors.  But from what I’ve heard, they cracked down on them pretty hard.  A large part of their economy is based on tourism, so there’s a big incentive to keep tourists safe. Larry We fail, miserably, to see how hated we are because of our support for Israel, no matter who they kill, no matter what they do.  You have to live in an Arab country to really feel it. That’s just not true for the average person you meet in many Arab countries, including Egypt, especially Egypt. Steve

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[...] It just seems stupid to put the family, the boat and his personal safety in harm’s way flashing that yacht in their faces after 9/11. Middle East changed that day.  Until the "brothers" in Afghanistan get the word spread out that America is NOT the enemy, and saved them from the gangsters who were killing the country, I’d pick a nice, quiet island someplace for the flashy yacht full of Yankees.  With so MANY beautiful places on the planet, why take the chance?

Personally, I don’t think it would be all that much of a chance.  At least compared to many other beautiful places people cruise to.  Egypt definitely had a problem a while ago with terrorists attacking visitors.  But from what I’ve heard, they cracked down on them pretty hard.  A large part of their economy is based on tourism, so there’s a big incentive to keep tourists safe. Larry We fail, miserably, to see how hated we are because of our support for Israel, no matter who they kill, no matter what they do.  You have to live in an Arab country to really feel it.

That’s just not true for the average person you meet in many Arab countries, including Egypt, especially Egypt. Steve

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Last month I sailed a felucca from Aswan to Edfu, so based on limited knowledge of this stretch of water: Draft limitation: most of the cruise boats had a draft of 4 feet or 4′ 6".  Our felucca had a centre board so that we could pull into the bank. Buoyage: Almost non existent.  There are shallows and a few rocks. Local knowledge desirable. Wind:  Prevailing wind in this Southern stretch is Northerly (i.e. against the stream) so one can tack North with the stream or run South against it. Height:  The bridge North of Aswan is not yet complete – awaiting the final span.  When finished this would restrict mast height to that of the big cruise boats (30 – 40 feet at a guess). Formalities: I don’t know details, but almost certainly Yes.  Our felucca captain had to advise the police of our trip. Pleasure:  Definitely!  We swam in the river (no crocs below the High Dam), saw water buffalo, ibises etc.  We found people universally friendly, although a strong feeling that America would do anything to support Israel to the detriment of Arab states. Tony Boas Sadler 34 – Bold Warrior – Southampton, UK.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m curious as to whether it is practical to cruise up and down the Nile R. with a private yacht. Legalities and other hassles: Practical draft limitations: Safety and pleasurability of your reception by the Egyptians: Any other information that may be of interest: —      Mark Anderson – DBA Riparia Resources    www.riparia.org Medical info for cruisers and woodworkers.  Boatbuilding plans. Artistic photography       Landscapes – Nautical and marine – Abstracts, extracts and

themes.

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Irving Johnson did his "TwiLight" cruise through the canals of Europe and up the Nile just before the Aswan dam was complete. I have the video here and it looks like a nice cruise. His boat was about 50 ft and moderate draft (not over 5 ft or he wouldn’t have been able to do the canals of Europe). I went to Egypt for a visit back in the mid 80s while I was working in Saudi Arabia. There was no problem as long as you didn’t have any Israeli stamps in you passport. I would imagine the climate is rather hostle now-a-days. I’d be more worried about stopping in Alexandria or transiting the Red Sea and it wouldn’t be the Egyptions that i would be afraid of. My opinion and experience, FWIW. Steve s/v Good Intentions

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A rich American cruising his flashy yacht in the Middle East…… Now THERE’s a TARGET of OPPORTUNITY for you. Hated by millions of Arabs because of our undying support for the Israeli War Machine…..tearing up Palestinians. Can you answer your own question?  PLEASE DON’T! larry I’d love to back to the Middle East where I lived and worked in Iran, Saudi Arabia, and Bahrain.  But, not now.  Not after 9/11/2001, PLEASE DON"T! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I’m curious as to whether it is practical to cruise up and down the Nile R. with a private yacht. Legalities and other hassles: Practical draft limitations: Safety and pleasurability of your reception by the Egyptians: Any other information that may be of interest: —     Mark Anderson – DBA Riparia Resources    www.riparia.org Medical info for cruisers and woodworkers.  Boatbuilding plans. Artistic photography      Landscapes – Nautical and marine – Abstracts, extracts and themes.

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I’m curious as to whether it is practical to cruise up and down the Nile R. with a private yacht. Legalities and other hassles: Practical draft limitations: Safety and pleasurability of your reception by the Egyptians: Any other information that may be of interest: —      Mark Anderson – DBA Riparia Resources    www.riparia.org Medical info for cruisers and woodworkers.  Boatbuilding plans. Artistic photography       Landscapes – Nautical and marine – Abstracts, extracts and themes.

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Question:

I find that after about six dozen fish that they chew about half the head off the fly. I would like it to be durable enough to last for a full morning’s fishing.

That’s easy, go up to Dodge City and fish with Wayne Knight – the fly will last a year or more<g. — Charlie…

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Willi wonders: Does any one here fish these patterns? I have tied a handful up, primarily the green(summer season) and orange(later evening) colors to see if they had special attractive characteristics for the stated periods of use. I can’t say that I fished them with top confidence, as I share your suspicion of general color theories. Anyway, they caught some fish, but didn’t knock my socks off.                               Tom Littleton

The waters he fished them on are pretty large turbulent waters. I don’t know what the exact area is like where he tested them but it is a large river. There areas of my local waters where I was going to try them are the deeper runs and the pocket water stretches. I’ll try to fish them with SOME confidence. Last fall I was in central/western Wyoming and had a couple days to fish. I stopped in a shop for some information. Since it was fall, the shop owner hadn’t had much business and seemed glad to have someone to talk to. We talked about quite a few things and he gave me some information that, I felt he wouldn’t normally give. It being fall in the Rockies, hatches were limited to sporadic caddis and BWO’s in about a size 20. The olives, he said, brought up the good fish. I asked him what he used and he showed me a large stimulator type fly that was very bright and flashy. The fly was tied on a number 14 stimulator hook which translated into a fly about the size of a normal size 10. I looked at him with some skepticism but bought a couple and went out. The section of river he sent me to carried alot of water even during the low flows typical in the Fall. The area was a series of deep strong runs, filled with large boulders.  I caught a few fish in the morning, then about 11 o’clock the Olives started popping up. I saw occasional rises and switched to a typical Olive imitation tied in a size eighteen. I caught a couple of smaller Browns on the current edges and continued to see an occasional surface feeding trout. The fish that were rising seemed to be smaller fish. I switched over to the fly that the shop owner recommended and I caught a number of sizable fish that came up off the bottom is the heavy current. My guess is that the better trout were feeding on the active and emerging nymphs but weren’t willing to come to the surface through the strong current for such a small fly. The larger attractor pattern, made the trip worthwhile. This isn’t a perfect example of his approach but it is the type of situation where a fly having certain exaggerated visual cues might work well. Willi

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Willi wonders: Does any one here fish these patterns?

I have tied a handful up, primarily the green(summer season) and orange(later evening) colors to see if they had special attractive characteristics for the stated periods of use. I can’t say that I fished them with top confidence, as I share your suspicion of general color theories. Anyway, they caught some fish, but didn’t knock my socks off.                               Tom Littleton

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with a series of flies designed by Gary LaFontaine that he calls his Double Wing series.

I have not experimented with the Double Wing series, but I have been using the Airheadfor several years now with great success, but unlike Gary, do not find it very durable. When I use it on the bedding bluegills I find that after about six dozen fish that they chew about half the head off the fly. I would like it to be durable enough to last for a full morning’s fishing. Big Dale

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Willi, Did you every get the email I sent to you (aka "Rusty Hook")?  Anyway, if you didn’t, here it is again: I’ll probably head up to the Yellowstone area for my vacation, preferably during the clave, but it won’t be due to poor fishing conditions around here. I’ll just be ready for something different by August.

Come on by Stanley this summer, Willi, and we’ll fish for wild cutthroats in places so beautiful they’ll make you eyes bleed. I’ll warn you, though. You’ll have to exert yourself to get there. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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Each year I come up with a few things that I’m interested in checking out streamside. This year, I’m looking to get a feel for streamer fishing, fishing a "cast" of wets and I’m thinking about experimenting with a series of flies designed by Gary LaFontaine that he calls his Double Wing series. Although I’m not much of a believer of a "right" fly or the importance of color overall, this series of flies is based on studies done by him using underwater divers to record the reactions of trout to certain colors and aspects of flies. The Double Wing series was a result of this study in terms of the "ideal" attractor pattern. He recommends certain color combinations for different light situations. Although Brooks, if I remember right, did some underwater observations, as far as I know, LaFontaine was the only person to study, from an underwater prospective and in a systematic manner, the reactions of trout to a number of variables of a fly’s construction. Does any one here fish these patterns? Any comments? Willi

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Question:

Thanks for the reply. I feel like a regular already. I have been lurking for a couple of years. I’m fairly new to flyfishing and was having trouble getting my post to go through. I hope I can contribute in the future. I also hope to attend a clave sometime it sounds like fun.

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I hope I can contribute in the future. I also hope to attend a clave sometime it sounds like fun.

    for my part, i hope you reach both goals.  welcome to the nuthouse. wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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Whoooweee and likewise yeeehaaw!  That reply posted in seconds.  We may have a winner here. His wife in El Paso – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dear fellas – figgered a "sorry" test message is a good place to re-test us.

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Dear fellas – figgered a "sorry" test message is a good place to re-test us.  We’ve been having terrible troubles trying to post replies.  It appears Southwestern Bell/Pacific Bell Internet updated their hardware and software and generally rearranged the furniture without telling anyone.  Everybody’s been having trouble.  On advice from another user, we changed news servers to news.flash.net and hoping that posts will go through.  This lurking business is the pits.  Was about to use voodoo or something, sprinkle salt on the phone lines, call in an exorcist…. Please let us know how this goes. Bob & his wife in El Paso

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A real sorry would be much more sincere. <g (I had to do it for Zimbo) — Charlie…

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A real sorry would be much more sincere. <g (I had to do it for Zimbo)

And I thank you from the bottom of my dweller –Steve

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listen, newbie: you call me sorry one more time and you’re *gonna* be!         wayno, the scourge of chambana   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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Question:

Beeswax, among other various uses, is one of the few materials used for lining moulds etc in the food  and confectionery trades for preventing particularly sticky sweets from sticking. They are known as release, or separation agents.  Glue is not used for this purpose. Bees use wax as a construction material, not as a glue. The whole construction of the comb is pure wax.  Glue is a foreign substance used to join similar or dissimilar materials. Paraffin wax is used for similar purposes to beeswax in other areas. Practically nothing will stick to a polished wax surface. Both of these waxes, and indeed a number of other substances may be used to prevent ferrules "binding". In this sense they are used partly as lubricants, and partly as solid separating agents. Binding ( in the case of carbon fibre, and other rod ferrules),is invariably caused by a substance rubbing against an identical substance, especially when the joint is tapered.    Wax of practically any sort will prevent this for varying periods of time, depending on how often the joint is used. Hard white wax works best, lasts longest, and is cheap and  convenient to use. Solid beeswax will stick to more or less nothing apart from itself, and only then when it is warm enough to melt, and the same applies to solid paraffin wax.  Most especially so, when polished after application. Liquid waxes, and other substances used for lubrication, like various oils etc, will indeed stick to things, trap dust, grit etc, and the lubricant coat providing the separation of surfaces will break down much more rapidly, simply because it will flow away. Hard polished wax will neither stick to things, nor will it flow away.  It is also intrinsically waterproof. This makes it ideal for treating ferrules. Some info on wax may be obtained here: http://www.wetestit.com/wax.htm Personally I don

Question:

contact Marianne Woodcox of Venture Guiding. email Marianne lives in Kitimat and guides on the river.  you can also post your question at: http://www.anglingbc.com/discussion/index.html Marianne frequents this board. Tell her I referred you. RalphH – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I will be flyfishing the Skeena River system and the Kitimat River in British Columbia August 7-16.  Can anyone recommend flies or specific tributaries or other water in the Smithers to Terrace areas? Thanks in advance.  Please feel free to respond off list. Stack Scoville Remove "SPAM" to e-mail "If I have been able to see over the horizon, it is because I have stood on the shoulders of giants," Sir Isaac Newton

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I fished the area last October, went for Steelhead. Consider trying the Copper river (trib of Skeena just upstream from Terrace). It had the best run of Steelhead yet is fairly crowded as it is a ’smaller’ river than the others. Be advised that the Kitimat does not have a summer run of Steelies, just a winter run (if, in fact, you are going for Steelhead) which our "guide" (so-called, believe me) told us AFTER we were on the river. Purple was our best color, yet I can’t give you specific fly names for that area. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana http://www.montana.com/dno/dno.htm 406-626-4022

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I will be flyfishing the Skeena River system and the Kitimat River in British Columbia August 7-16.  Can anyone recommend flies or specific tributaries or other water in the Smithers to Terrace areas? Thanks in advance.  Please feel free to respond off list. Stack Scoville Remove "SPAM" to e-mail "If I have been able to see over the horizon, it is because I have stood on the shoulders of giants," Sir Isaac Newton

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I will be flyfishing the Skeena River system and the Kitimat River in British Columbia August 7-16.  Can anyone recommend flies or specific tributaries or other water in the Smithers to Terrace areas? Thanks in advance.  Please feel free to respond off list. Stack Scoville Remove "SPAM" to e-mail "If I have been able to see over the horizon, it is because I have stood on the shoulders of giants," Sir Isaac Newton

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Question:

What are some Spring recomendations for fishing Maine, Either Salmon or trout?

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Spring fishing in Maine means the smelt run for landlocks.  West Branch of the Penobscot near Ripogenus dam in early June is my #1 pick.  Hatches should also start by June 10. Rangely area has some terrific fishing in the Kennebago river, Big Magalloway river, and Rapid river.  Should start by mid-May. Tight lines, Gerry Crow

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Gerry crow writes:

<<Spring fishing in Maine means the smelt run for landlocks.  West Branch of the Penobscot near Ripogenus dam in early June is my #1 pick.  Hatches should also start by June 10. Rangely area has some terrific fishing in the Kennebago river, Big Magalloway river, and Rapid river.  Should start by mid-May. Tight lines, Gerry Crow Fish the Rapid River every year the week before and after Memorial Day. If the Hendrickson hatch comes off, it is a sight to see.  After Mem. Day, lots of caddis hatches.  I usually fish only dries on the Rapid, but lately have had lots of luck with nymphs (Hendrickson, Hares Ear, my own concoctions of green caddis worms (both dubbed and latex bodied), and Brassies).  The Rapid is my favorite spot in all the world.  It doesn’t get much better.  Be sure to see "Lakewood Camps" representatives at the Marlboro Mass Fly Show Jan 17-19.   Dave LaCourse

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What are some Spring recomendations for fishing Maine, Either Salmon or trout?

Gerry had some good advice for you but my best would be to take plenty of bug dope.   Tight Lines JF

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What are some Spring recomendations for fishing Maine, Either Salmon or trout?

I was in Maine one summer six or seven years ago and my wife hired a guide for me to fish one day as a birthday gift.  At the time, that was a very extravagant gift on her part.  We had little money and I had never fished with a guide.  It was mid summer and I spent one day with the owner operator of Libby Camp (they advertise in the magazines).  That was truely one of my most memorable fishing trips of my life.  Since then our financial situation has changed and I’ve fished with a lot of guides, but, that guy was truely tops.  The fishing wasn’t terific because of the time of year but, he gave me a great trip.  We fished rivers and we fished lakes.  He taught me casting tips.  He told stories about Maine and the "old" days and we moaned about politicians.  What more could you ask for.  I would recommend Libby Camps to anyone who asks.   Steve Russell My Rod and Reel They comfort me.

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What are some Spring recomendations for fishing Maine, Either Salmon or trout?

Are you from the New England area?  If so, visit the Fly Fishing Show this week (Jan 17,18,19) in Marlboro, Mass. There you will find a booth for "Lakewood Camps", Middle Dam, Maine. Great place to stay, and some of the best flyfishing for landlocks and brook trout on the Rapid River (output of Lower Lake Richardson). If you are there for the Hendrickson hatch, you will never forget the experience.  Before Memorial Day fishing is usually with streamer, but nymphs will bag many also.  After the first Hendrickson hatch, the Caddis hatches come off — usually early June.  Great fishing, and great accomodations from Sue and Stan Milton. Regards, Dave LaCourse

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Question:

: for the amount used the sg doesn’t count. Isn’t it more fun fishing than : being scientific? Keep em dry, Ummm…. not always.  But then I’m a geek. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

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Question for Mr "Gink":  Is there any reason (physical, not political) that I shouldn’t use Gink as a fly-line dressing?  Will it corode the line? — -Wayne Trzyna

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Gink keeps it up! I’ll have to remember that next time I pay a visit to Cottonwood ranch.

Aha!  We’ve discovered the secret ingrediant:  KY Jelly. — -Wayne Trzyna

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: : GINK…has a specific gravity of .78 the density of water. : : FYI, pure fresh water has a specific gravity of 1.00, and sea water : averages 1.025. Now the question everyone is, What’s the specific : gravity of Albolene? : — : Gary A. Soucie – writer, editor, angler : TEL 1-301-322-8373;  FAX 1-301-322-4329 : 3007 Crest Ave., Cheverly, MD 20785 USA Gary, Hi,    I don’t think it matters. It works well. A drawback, if any, may be the low liquification temperature. I noticed yesterday that at body temperature, 98.6 deg F, it was a thin film not solid as it comes from the container. I guess the other floatants (like Al Beatty has) have higher melting/liquification temperatures.    One thing for sure is that water doesn’t like it, which is the property that makes flies float. Keep em dry, Bob — lukn4fish Bob Madden San Jose, Ca

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GINK…has a specific gravity of .78 the density of water. FYI, pure fresh water has a specific gravity of 1.00, and sea water averages 1.025. But the question everyone wants answered is, What’s the chemical difference between Gink and albolene? — Gary A. Soucie – writer, editor, angler TEL 1-301-322-8373;  FAX 1-301-322-4329 3007 Crest Ave., Cheverly, MD 20785 USA

As different as a model A Ford is to a Jet Fighter.  If I wanted to be spilling out my guts regarding what my life’s work is all about I’d done it years ago but the secret formulations of GINK is patented and has nothing to do with whatever else you believe works.  What GINK is:  Its a dry fly dressing invented by a fly fishermen for fly fishermen. Remember, all other dry fly dressings and/or sinks are PLAGARIZED products from other industrial sources which are then forced onto the fishing establishment as working enities.  ALL MY PRODUCTS are original inventions Mr. Soucie.  If you want to use silicone, soaps, bear or goose grease dissolved with carbontetroclorhide and ruin your heart, or if you want to use perfumed cosmetics which you’re proposing and call it romancing the fly . . . be our guest. The differences are very great.  Gink is gink and it is MUCH, much better than old, obsolete albolene.  Albo absorbs tremendous amouts of water, its viscosity is wrong and its used to remove makeup from actor’s faces (primarily)  What albo is not, it is not a dry fly dressing.  At least not anywhere as great as GEHRKE’S GINK is.  And frankly Mr Soucie, nothing else in the world is either. Gink keeps it up. George Gehrke/Mr. Gink

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I plopped my trusty hydrometer into my tub of Albolene and it just layed there. Any chemists out there that can tell me what I’m doing wrong? John Nesselrode Shawnee, KS

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I soak my dries in a "permanent" treatment right after I tie them.  Stuff is called Fly Dry or something like that; probably Scotchgard.  Works pretty well.  If they start to sink, a few false casts solve the problem.  If they get slimed, dry floatant gets ‘em up again.  Not as permanent as the manufacturer suggests, but still a lot easier than dealing with floatant paste on a cold morning.   Haven’t used Gink.  Probably a fine product, but I’m wary of liquid floatants, given their tendency to leak in the vest pocket. Charlie Quinton

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Gink keeps it up! Aha!  We’ve discovered the secret ingrediant:  KY Jelly. — -Wayne Trzyna

No, no, Wayne.  You’re mistaken.  K-Y jelly gets it IN!  Keeping it in and UP is another question.  Not sure about Gink in that regard, but I’ve found that a couple of belts of sour mash pretty makes it hard (difficult?) to get down. Stan

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: :   I read this to say that Gink is roughly 3/4’s  the "density" of : water. Which make it lighter than water, therefore it floats. (FYI) : :         Yes, if Gink has a specific gravity of 0.78 it ought to float flies : very well. It seems strange, though, that Mr. Gink doesn’t know how his : conconcoction’s specific gravity compares to that of water. :         I don’t even know what Albolene is, but the name keeps popping up on : the thread. A simple, "Gink is not Albolene, Albolene is not Gink," This is good stuff. What if these products _are_ heaver than water, but their properties are such that they easily coat the hackel and hair fibers such the total weight is only increased a miniscual amount. The fact that good H2O doesnt like this material causes them to float really well (and for some time). Some guides I’ve talked to use Albolene and they say it works well. Heck, for the amount used the sg doesn’t count. Isn’t it more fun fishing than being scientific? Keep em dry, Bob — lukn4fish Bob Madden San Jose, Ca

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GINK…has a specific gravity of .78 the density of water. FYI, pure fresh water has a specific gravity of 1.00, and sea water averages 1.025. Now the question everyone is, What’s the specific gravity of Albolene? — Gary A. Soucie – writer, editor, angler TEL 1-301-322-8373;  FAX 1-301-322-4329 3007 Crest Ave., Cheverly, MD 20785 USA

  I read this to say that Gink is roughly 3/4’s  the "density" of water. Which make it lighter than water, therefore it floats. (FYI)   Harry

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  I read this to say that Gink is roughly 3/4’s  the "density" of water. Which make it lighter than water, therefore it floats. (FYI)

        Yes, if Gink has a specific gravity of 0.78 it ought to float flies very well. It seems strange, though, that Mr. Gink doesn’t know how his conconcoction’s specific gravity compares to that of water.         I don’t even know what Albolene is, but the name keeps popping up on the thread. A simple, "Gink is not Albolene, Albolene is not Gink," would have sufficed, but instead Mr. Gink went into one of his patented rages. He’s certainly a poor spokesman for his product. — Gary A. Soucie – writer, editor, angler TEL 1-301-322-8373;  FAX 1-301-322-4329 3007 Crest Ave., Cheverly, MD 20785 USA

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   Yes, if Gink has a specific gravity of 0.78 it ought to float flies very well. It seems strange, though, that Mr. Gink doesn’t know how his conconcoction’s specific gravity compares to that of water.

I think he said Gink has a specific gravity of .78 _compared_ to water (which is 1.00 as you point out). The english language is often imprecise. FWIW. Charlie…

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: : : : Gink keeps it up. : : George Gehrke/Mr. Gink Ok Dr George, but don’t flash it. Just let it float. Keep em dry, Bob (tryin to beat T-Bone to the floatant) — lukn4fish Bob Madden San Jose, Ca

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snip BTW, I raised Tim’s issue over a year ago without a nibble. How come we don’t worry about all the floatant in the water?

Rick, At this point I think we’d be doing more worrying than fishing. Ross Wilson

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – GINK…has a specific gravity of .78 the density of water. FYI, pure fresh water has a specific gravity of 1.00, and sea water averages 1.025. But the question everyone wants answered is, What’s the chemical difference between Gink and albolene? — Gary A. Soucie – writer, editor, angler TEL 1-301-322-8373;  FAX 1-301-322-4329 3007 Crest Ave., Cheverly, MD 20785 USA As different as a model A Ford is to a Jet Fighter.  If I wanted to be spilling out my guts regarding what my life’s work is all about I’d done it years ago but the secret formulations of GINK is patented and has nothing to do with whatever else you believe works.  What GINK is:  Its a dry fly dressing invented by a fly fishermen for fly fishermen. Remember, all other dry fly dressings and/or sinks are PLAGARIZED products from other industrial sources which are then forced onto the fishing establishment as working enities.  ALL MY PRODUCTS are original inventions Mr. Soucie.  If you want to use silicone, soaps, bear or goose grease dissolved with carbontetroclorhide and ruin your heart, or if you want to use perfumed cosmetics which you’re proposing and call it romancing the fly . . . be our guest. The differences are very great.  Gink is gink and it is MUCH, much better than old, obsolete albolene.  Albo absorbs tremendous amouts of water, its viscosity is wrong and its used to remove makeup from actor’s faces (primarily)  What albo is not, it is not a dry fly dressing.  At least not anywhere as great as GEHRKE’S GINK is.  And frankly Mr Soucie, nothing else in the world is either. Gink keeps it up. George Gehrke/Mr. Gink

That’s atellin’ ‘em George. Les

Response:

GINK…has a specific gravity of .78 the density of water.

FYI, pure fresh water has a specific gravity of 1.00, and sea water averages 1.025. Now the question everyone is, What’s the specific gravity of albolene? — Gary A. Soucie – writer, editor, angler TEL 1-301-322-8373;  FAX 1-301-322-4329 3007 Crest Ave., Cheverly, MD 20785 USA

Response:

GINK…has a specific gravity of .78 the density of water.

FYI, pure fresh water has a specific gravity of 1.00, and sea water averages 1.025. Now the question everyone is, What’s the specific gravity of Albolene? — Gary A. Soucie – writer, editor, angler TEL 1-301-322-8373;  FAX 1-301-322-4329 3007 Crest Ave., Cheverly, MD 20785 USA

Response:

GINK…has a specific gravity of .78 the density of water.

FYI, pure fresh water has a specific gravity of 1.00, and sea water averages 1.025. But the question everyone wants answered is, What’s the chemical difference between Gink and albolene? — Gary A. Soucie – writer, editor, angler TEL 1-301-322-8373;  FAX 1-301-322-4329 3007 Crest Ave., Cheverly, MD 20785 USA

Response:

world’s first COMMERCIAL dry fly dressing to float a fly for more than one float.  In fact, it does it better even today than any other dressing in the world and will usually float a dry fly until the owner changes it or loses it . . . more often than not. The main point is, it works!  It works better than any other competitor’s efforts i the entire world.

Does anyone have the article someone posted awhile back which compared several different brands of floatants?   And that . . . in itself, is another story I might tell one day.  How it all came about.

I, for one, would be interested in hearing it.  For one thing, I’d like to know why it’s called "Gink". Gink keeps it up!

I’ll have to remember that next time I pay a visit to Cottonwood ranch. — John Fereira Isis Distributed Systems – Ithaca, NY

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It’s probably the same stuff as any other fly floatant.  I’m sure I’ll be corrected if I’m wrong, but I believe the reason floatant works is becasue it keeps the water off the fly… and anything that does that will gum up a gill, too.  BTW, I raised Tim’s issue over a year ago without a nibble. How come we don’t worry about all the floatant in the water?

Maybe environmental authorities would if they actually had people that fished. Coast Guard regulations require the reporting of a "visible sheen" on the water.  Some states’ environmental release reporting statutes and regulations prohibit, or require reporting of, any release, no matter what the quantity, of a listed hazardous substance to the environment.  Remember that post about not seeing game wardens?  Wait until the Coast Guard hands you a citation for the sheen coming from that floating fly on the end of your line and the state wants $10,000 a day for the failure to report the same "release".  Hope this doesn’t start Timbo on a new catch and "release" post fest! Musconet

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: the fly for long on the stream.  I’ve tried adding a little : silicon high-vacuum grease.  This stuff is less soluble, but much : tackier.  I find this a good way of floatin flies such as Letort : hoppers which are hard to gink properly by hand.  Overall rating: : 7 out of 10. : Isn’t this stuff, like, toxic to fish ? It’s probably the same stuff as any other fly floatant.  I’m sure I’ll be corrected if I’m wrong, but I believe the reason floatant works is becasue it keeps the water off the fly… and anything that does that will gum up a gill, too.  BTW, I raised Tim’s issue over a year ago without a nibble. How come we don’t worry about all the floatant in the water? — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : the fly for long on the stream.  I’ve tried adding a little : silicon high-vacuum grease.  This stuff is less soluble, but much : tackier.  I find this a good way of floatin flies such as Letort : hoppers which are hard to gink properly by hand.  Overall rating: : 7 out of 10. : Isn’t this stuff, like, toxic to fish ? It’s probably the same stuff as any other fly floatant.  I’m sure I’ll be corrected if I’m wrong, but I believe the reason floatant works is becasue it keeps the water off the fly… and anything that does that will gum up a gill, too.  BTW, I raised Tim’s issue over a year ago without a nibble. How come we don’t worry about all the floatant in the water? — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

SILICONE based dressings (plagarized products from another industrial source) absorb 10% of their weight in water.  (Also they are very dirt gathering prone).  This is why you do not want to use silicone based dry fly dressings. Hope this helps answer your problems about silicone dressings. Lastly, hollow deer haired flies such as hoppers, etc. a trimmed with sissors and the hollowed hair will suck in water if you do not dress the head liberally with Gink.  Why GINK is better in this area is because it has a specific gravity of .78 the density of water.  Which means, it floats all by itself.  Rick Fletcher is absolutely correct in that GINK keeps water from the tying material, making them basically impervious to the entry of water while adding a high degree of floatability.  This is only one reason why GINK is the World’s Number One Dry Fly dressing. That aside, from ginking flies to tying them, Gehrke’s Gink is the world’s first COMMERCIAL dry fly dressing to float a fly for more than one float.  In fact, it does it better even today than any other dressing in the world and will usually float a dry fly until the owner changes it or loses it . . . more often than not. The main point is, it works!  It works better than any other competitor’s efforts i the entire world. And that . . . in itself, is another story I might tell one day.  How it all came about. Gink keeps it up! George/Mr. Gink I would never break the romance of two lovers.  The fly that is dressed well who are in need of keeping a date with a fish. No more. No less. gg/;)

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : Dear All: : I have access to some silicon oil.  Do you think I should try this on my : flies?  It is reagent grade stuff.  I’m not sure what I should cut it : with, as it is far too concentrated to use on an individual fly.  It : should work though.  Gink is essentially the same stuff but in a low : melting base. : JB I’ve tried using silicon oil on my flies.  I cut the oil about 1:10 with hexanes and dipped the flies in.  Unfortunately, I’ve found that the finished products is too thin and doesn’t protect the fly for long on the stream.  I’ve tried adding a little silicon high-vacuum grease.  This stuff is less soluble, but much tackier.  I find this a good way of floatin flies such as Letort hoppers which are hard to gink properly by hand.  Overall rating: 7 out of 10.

Isn’t this stuff, like, toxic to fish ? TimW

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Dear All: I have access to some silicon oil.  Do you think I should try this on my flies?  It is reagent grade stuff.  I’m not sure what I should cut it with, as it is far too concentrated to use on an individual fly.  It should work though.  Gink is essentially the same stuff but in a low melting base. JB

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: Dear All: : I have access to some silicon oil.  Do you think I should try this on my : flies?  It is reagent grade stuff.  I’m not sure what I should cut it : with, as it is far too concentrated to use on an individual fly.  It : should work though.  Gink is essentially the same stuff but in a low : melting base. : JB I’ve tried using silicon oil on my flies.  I cut the oil about 1:10 with hexanes and dipped the flies in.  Unfortunately, I’ve found that the finished products is too thin and doesn’t protect the fly for long on the stream.  I’ve tried adding a little silicon high-vacuum grease.  This stuff is less soluble, but much tackier.  I find this a good way of floatin flies such as Letort hoppers which are hard to gink properly by hand.  Overall rating: 7 out of 10. Pete

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Question:

It’s pretty sad when the first post to a new group, fly tying, is SPAM. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The FISHING LOG is a Powerful Software Program for Windows  It tracks every aspect of your fishing trips/sessions in great detail. It is colorful, extremely powerful and very user friendly. Keeps track of just about anything you can think of in Fresh Water or Salt. It is a large program of research quality but you can just keep up the sections YOU wish. Export data to other programs for analysis, printing  and charting. The best part is that if you download it yourself it is FREE. Mind that the last characters in the WWW address are all UPPERCASE!                 Bob Sheedy                Master Angler http://www.mbnet.mb.ca/~sheedyr/FISHING.HTM

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The FISHING LOG is a Powerful Software Program for Windows  It tracks every aspect of your fishing trips/sessions in great detail. It is colorful, extremely powerful and very user friendly. Keeps track of just about anything you can think of in Fresh Water or Salt. It is a large program of research quality but you can just keep up the sections YOU wish. Export data to other programs for analysis, printing  and charting. The best part is that if you download it yourself it is FREE. Mind that the last characters in the WWW address are all UPPERCASE!                  Bob Sheedy                 Master Angler http://www.mbnet.mb.ca/~sheedyr/FISHING.HTM

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Question:

I am thinking about going to St. Croix in the Virgin Islands for a week of Contra dancing and was wondering about flyfishing there.  Anyone know anything about what might be there?  E-Mail  Gitfish   Thanks

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I have fished bonefish in the VI, but up on Virgin Gorda

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I understand from your earlier message that you have fished for bonefish on Virgin Gorda.  I’m planning a trip that way next summer and am interested in knowing more about your experience.  I understand that there is good fishing on Anegada but was not aware of the opportunities at Virgin Gorda.  Is the fishing good?  Are a boat and guide essential?  Are guided trips available from Virgin Gorda?  

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