Question:

boy what a way to ruin my enjoyment of fishing reports. Blah! Memphis Jim

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Gang, I looked out the widow this morning and knew it was going to waaaaaay too nice not to head out and do some fishing. I checked the tides and the afternoon was the ticket, I could get out around 3:30, get the last few hours of incoming and then catch the first few hours of outgoing, the perfect tide. Did not have to go far in the Choptank to find the breaking fish everywhere. Got the long rod out and started catching. Most fish were 16-18, I did get a few keepers. I ran into a few other Tidal Fish guys, John T and Jimbo who joined in the action. After about an hour of that I decided to go hunt some bigger fish in shallow water. The perfect day for it, light breeze and air temp. I headed off in the Choptank and as soon as I pulled up and cast my fly I hooked up. Caught steady for about 2 1/2 hours working the shorelines, most fish were 14-17 inches. Then just as I was getting ready to work my way back in towards the Tred Avon I got a huge hit, the fly just stopped, I thought I was stuck on rocks, I looked down and it was about 2 feet deep, figured I caught a rock, then it pulled back, then an instant later the line goes free…..”Big Fish”, I say to myself. Make the same cast…strip..strip..strip..pause..BANG! I set the hook, feels like a good fish, but I figure it is a runt with a lot of energy, then like a freight train it takes off, I cleared the line and got him on the reel. After a good fight, some juggling and Rest of the report is posted at TidalFish.com (http://www.TidalFish.com) Exact URL to my report is:

http://www.tidalfish.com/boards2/viewthread.asp?forum=AMB_AP332285722… 15 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Good Fishing!

Response:

Hi Gang, I looked out the widow this morning and knew it was going to waaaaaay too nice not to head out and do some fishing. I checked the tides and the afternoon was the ticket, I could get out around 3:30, get the last few hours of incoming and then catch the first few hours of outgoing, the perfect tide. Did not have to go far in the Choptank to find the breaking fish everywhere. Got the long rod out and started catching. Most fish were 16-18, I did get a few keepers. I ran into a few other Tidal Fish guys, John T and Jimbo who joined in the action. After about an hour of that I decided to go hunt some bigger fish in shallow water. The perfect day for it, light breeze and air temp. I headed off in the Choptank and as soon as I pulled up and cast my fly I hooked up. Caught steady for about 2 1/2 hours working the shorelines, most fish were 14-17 inches. Then just as I was getting ready to work my way back in towards the Tred Avon I got a huge hit, the fly just stopped, I thought I was stuck on rocks, I looked down and it was about 2 feet deep, figured I caught a rock, then it pulled back, then an instant later the line goes free

Question:

I recently purchased a Mini Bass boat and a minn kota trolling motor with it, 35lbs of thrust, I boutght a 12v deep cycle battery as well. My question is, how much "life" can I expect out of the battery? if used sparingly during the day, 3 hours? 6 hours? 8 hours? I know it depends on a lot of things, but I’m looking for a ball park figure. Wondering if I should get  second as backup to take along. Other then that, fishing in Weymouth Mass was great this weekend lots of perch, but some pretty healthy largemouth. thanks in advance.

Response:

If the minkota has the maximizer feature and it’s a group 27 or larger battery, expect to fish two days on it, anyway. I can do that no problem with my 50 thrust minkota on a 14-1/2 footer. RichZ

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Those that wanted to should have. You all missed a great one. Suckers! I’ll let Kevin give the details.  I had to get my digs in after driving more than 3,000 miles in the last two weeks just for a little fly fishing. Joel Axelrad **DFD** I wanted to, but wound up at my boss’s lake home.  Dang.  Hot water, flush toilets, sandy beach, pontoon boat.   Now if only I could have done both…

Did you catch any fish? Wolfgang

Response:

rbc:  vixen wrote… I wanted to, but wound up at my boss’s lake home.  Dang.  Hot water, flush toilets, sandy beach, pontoon boat.   Now if only I could have done both…

We missed you cyli.  6, 7, 8, lb. pike on the fly and plenty of them.  We missed you all.  Make this clave the next time it comes up! Joel Axelrad **DFD**

Response:

Reports?

I’ll post one later or more likely tomorrow. Pictures?

My slides and CD come back on Thursday, I’ll post to ABPF then. Willi

Fix underscore in address to reply

Response:

Did you catch any fish? No, but I saw a nice imported striped bass.  It’s been so cold that I think they’re just getting ready to spawn up there in NW Wisconsin. There were no fish in evidence on Saturday, Sunday there were some rises out in the center of the lake and Monday we suddenly saw the same amount of fish I’d seen there on my trip last summer.   All the rivers were running high and lovely.  Each time I took a bridge over the Namekagon I was wishing for a raft and a bunch of time to go down it again.

had a clavemistress. I did do some casting practice from the dock, but only with a spinning rod, as the kids were in the water and up on the dock and on the beach (only two of them, but two kids and water makes a herd) and I was darned if I’d do anything with a back cast involved.

Get a bunch of ROFFians up there for a long weekend and you will get enough free casting instruction to have you threading a weighted woolly bugger effortlessly and successfully through an entire tribe of high speed young’ns…..well, MOSTLY successfully.     Wolfgang who ain’t never fished that neighborhood.

Response:

rbc:  vixen wrote… I wanted to, but wound up at my boss’s lake home.  Dang.  Hot water, flush toilets, sandy beach, pontoon boat.   Now if only I could have done both… We missed you cyli.  6, 7, 8, lb. pike on the fly and plenty of them.  We missed you all.  Make this clave the next time it comes up!

Reports? Pictures? Willi

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Those that wanted to should have. You all missed a great one. Suckers! I’ll let Kevin give the details.  I had to get my digs in after driving more than 3,000 miles in the last two weeks just for a little fly fishing. Joel Axelrad **DFD** I wanted to, but wound up at my boss’s lake home.  Dang.  Hot water, flush toilets, sandy beach, pontoon boat.   Now if only I could have done both… Did you catch any fish? Wolfgang

No, but I saw a nice imported striped bass.  It’s been so cold that I think they’re just getting ready to spawn up there in NW Wisconsin. There were no fish in evidence on Saturday, Sunday there were some rises out in the center of the lake and Monday we suddenly saw the same amount of fish I’d seen there on my trip last summer.   All the rivers were running high and lovely.  Each time I took a bridge over the Namekagon I was wishing for a raft and a bunch of time to go down it again.   I did do some casting practice from the dock, but only with a spinning rod, as the kids were in the water and up on the dock and on the beach (only two of them, but two kids and water makes a herd) and I was darned if I’d do anything with a back cast involved. — rbc:  vixen    Fairly harmless remove invalid or hit reply to email. Though I’m very slow to respond. http://www.visi.com/~cyli

Response:

Those that wanted to should have. You all missed a great one. Suckers! I’ll let Kevin give the details.  I had to get my digs in after driving more than 3,000 miles in the last two weeks just for a little fly fishing. Joel Axelrad **DFD**

Response:

Those that wanted to should have. You all missed a great one. Suckers! I’ll let Kevin give the details.  I had to get my digs in after driving more than 3,000 miles in the last two weeks just for a little fly fishing. Joel Axelrad **DFD**

I wanted to, but wound up at my boss’s lake home.  Dang.  Hot water, flush toilets, sandy beach, pontoon boat.   Now if only I could have done both… — rbc:  vixen    Fairly harmless remove invalid or hit reply to email. Though I’m very slow to respond. http://www.visi.com/~cyli

Response:

Question:

I’m looking to improve my midge presentations this year. There is a local lake that I fish often where midges appear to be a major food source and I keep getting skunked. I know, use, and tie only a couple of midge patterns: 1. Griffith’s Gnat for dry 2. Brassie for the pupa. Anyone have any killer patterns for midges? I’m especially interested in larva, pupa, and emerger type patterns. There don’t seem to be as many out there as for mayfly nymphs etc. As for presentation, I recently checked out Mike Croft’s stillwater book and found that midge larva and pupa imitations need to be presented in a near vertical presentation with very slow retrieve. I think this is part of my problem also. Any tips/techniques anyone has here would be appreciated as well!

Response:

This URL should help you out http://www.fishbc.com/adventure/angling/protalk/chan/confession.phtml TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

Response:

Wow. The article talks about using a 6 or 7 meter leader.  That seems like it would be impossible to cast? Keith – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This URL should help you out http://www.fishbc.com/adventure/angling/protalk/chan/confession.phtml

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m looking to improve my midge presentations this year. There is a local lake that I fish often where midges appear to be a major food source and I keep getting skunked. I know, use, and tie only a couple of midge patterns: 1. Griffith’s Gnat for dry 2. Brassie for the pupa. Anyone have any killer patterns for midges? I’m especially interested in larva, pupa, and emerger type patterns. There don’t seem to be as many out there as for mayfly nymphs etc. As for presentation, I recently checked out Mike Croft’s stillwater book and found that midge larva and pupa imitations need to be presented in a near vertical presentation with very slow retrieve. I think this is part of my problem also. Any tips/techniques anyone has here would be appreciated as well!

Hi Xochi, Someone else pointed you to Brian Chan’s page.  Its a very good start. There are a lot of midge patterns around, most all fly tying books show a few.  The Griffith’s Gnat is a good dry pattern, its just that lake fish aren’t on drys very often.  They are on the emergers, pupa, and larva much more often.  I like the suspended midge pupa patterns for the emergers, and the swannundase midge for the pupa.  Both are in Kaufmans book "Tying Nymphs".  You will need a variety of colors and sizes,  assume you will need black, olive, gray, and red pupa patterns.  Sizes cover a huge spectrum.  My box includes size 12 at the large end and goes to 18 at the small end. Smaller may be needed on occasion, but not so often I stock for it.   What you really need to do is spend some time watching the midges hatch in your lake.  Stock your box with the colors and sizes present at your lake.  I didn’t mention larva patterns because I don’t use any special patterns for the larva.  The pupa pattern is generally close enough. Most of my midging is done within 4 feet of the surface.  This might be peculiar to the lakes I fish.  I don’t go out of my way to use a long leader, and tippet size doesn’t need to go to the rediculous either.  A standard 9 foot leader ending in 4x is OK most of the time.  Lake fish run pretty big and while smaller tippets can be used to land them,  doing so usually exhausts the fish in the process.  Stay with the heavier tippets whenever you can. Slow is key, in fact if you can keep the line tight, no retrieve is best.  I use a strike indicator a lot so a tight line is not as critical.  Wave action provides more than enough action to the fly.  To catch a few on midges now and again is a simple matter.  To get really good at it is a whole nother story! Good luck John S.

Response:

I’m looking to improve my midge presentations this year. There is a local lake that I fish often where midges appear to be a major food source and I keep getting skunked. I know, use, and tie only a couple of midge patterns: 1. Griffith’s Gnat for dry 2. Brassie for the pupa.

snipped to save room. going to get spammed for spamming.  I have the answer, but I don’t know how to help you and others in a public forum such as ROFF. The price one pays for being an icon!  Sucks! — Mr.G Wildlife: An American Ideal & Her Values Thesis http://www.gink.com/environment/index.html

Response:

Xochi, What about my favourite midge-emerger: Hook: TMC 2487 #’s 18-22. Tail: two strrands of twinkle flash, cut off short. Body: grey tyingthread – make a very, very thin body, tied well into the bend. Tie in a CDC-feather at the point. Wrap a small thorax with some peacock-herl Fold the CDC-feather losely over the thorax, thus forming a small buld on top. It’s OK to let some fibers point out. The idea is to get a small body with a rather messy thorax. Cut of. Just let this fly float in the surface, using a long leader-point, without too much casting. Hans van der Stroom – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m looking to improve my midge presentations this year. There is a local lake that I fish often where midges appear to be a major food source and I keep getting skunked. I know, use, and tie only a couple of midge patterns: 1. Griffith’s Gnat for dry 2. Brassie for the pupa. Anyone have any killer patterns for midges? I’m especially interested in larva, pupa, and emerger type patterns. There don’t seem to be as many out there as for mayfly nymphs etc. As for presentation, I recently checked out Mike Croft’s stillwater book and found that midge larva and pupa imitations need to be presented in a near vertical presentation with very slow retrieve. I think this is part of my problem also. Any tips/techniques anyone has here would be appreciated as well!

Response:

Greetings, Small Fly by Darrel Martin, try a search on http://www.addall.com/ for a source and the best price available. Graham

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m looking to improve my midge presentations this year. There is a local lake that I fish often where midges appear to be a major food source and I keep getting skunked. I know, use, and tie only a couple of midge patterns: 1. Griffith’s Gnat for dry 2. Brassie for the pupa. Anyone have any killer patterns for midges? I’m especially interested in larva, pupa, and emerger type patterns. There don’t seem to be as many out there as for mayfly nymphs etc. As for presentation, I recently checked out Mike Croft’s stillwater book and found that midge larva and pupa imitations need to be presented in a near vertical presentation with very slow retrieve. I think this is part of my problem also. Any tips/techniques anyone has here would be appreciated as well!

Response:

The price one pays for being an icon!  Sucks!

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0679887482.01.LZZZZZZZ.gif — Charlie…

Response:

Not so, we use 20-22 ft leaders, in lakes, all the time.  A lot of people who use a bobber over their chironomids, cast these leaders very well….even with the cork. Fred – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wow. The article talks about using a 6 or 7 meter leader.  That seems like it would be impossible to cast? Keith This URL should help you out http://www.fishbc.com/adventure/angling/protalk/chan/confession.phtml

Response:

TRY A FLY CALLED HALO MIDGE EMERGER.YOU WILL FIND THE PATTERN IN A BOOK WRITTEN BY GARY LAFONTAINE:TROUT FLIES PROVEN PATTERNS.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m looking to improve my midge presentations this year. There is a local lake that I fish often where midges appear to be a major food source and I keep getting skunked. I know, use, and tie only a couple of midge patterns: 1. Griffith’s Gnat for dry 2. Brassie for the pupa. Anyone have any killer patterns for midges? I’m especially interested in larva, pupa, and emerger type patterns. There don’t seem to be as many out there as for mayfly nymphs etc. As for presentation, I recently checked out Mike Croft’s stillwater book and found that midge larva and pupa imitations need to be presented in a near vertical presentation with very slow retrieve. I think this is part of my problem also. Any tips/techniques anyone has here would be appreciated as well!

Response:

Hi Xochi (how does one pronounce that anyway I read your post several times … these are the things that came to mind. The Grifiths Gnat and Brassie don’t really cover the few inches of water column beneath the surface unless you clip hackles or use greased leaders.   Last year Mike Connor suggested I try a snipe and purple on midging fish in lakes … I didn’t have snipe at the time and used magpie instead … both have worked for me.  But … I pick a fish and put the fly well infront and will strip the fly into the fishes path if necessary then leave it inert – I generally don’t have to fish the water.  Of course that was last year – this year may be completely different What species of fish?  Rainbows give me the most trouble with their speed, even seemingly slow rise forms are from fish moving at quite a clip. Do something radical … trick I use is to use a small attractor (size 16 or 14 at most) and fish this by casting to a rise and stripping slowly … Alexandras are good for this on the lakes I fish.  This isn’t a bad option when searching the water either.  I will also use bait fish imitations … it really depends a lot on the water. What fly do I start with? … 99% of the time the wrong one. Of course if your fish are totally switched on to a 3.75 mm pupae with a bluey-silver sheen  you may need a whole lot of luck as well… Its taken nine off-seasons to come up with couple of tactics and flies that work consistently on midge feeders during the middle of the day. steve — "Experience must be the teacher in this game – not only your own  but the other man’s" – Dick Wigram http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~steve/fush/

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m looking to improve my midge presentations this year. There is a local lake that I fish often where midges appear to be a major food source and I keep getting skunked. I know, use, and tie only a couple of midge patterns: 1. Griffith’s Gnat for dry 2. Brassie for the pupa. Anyone have any killer patterns for midges? I’m especially interested in larva, pupa, and emerger type patterns. There don’t seem to be as many out there as for mayfly nymphs etc. As for presentation, I recently checked out Mike Croft’s stillwater book and found that midge larva and pupa imitations need to be presented in a near vertical presentation with very slow retrieve. I think this is part of my problem also. Any tips/techniques anyone has here would be appreciated as well!

I don’t know if you’ve ever heard of "Whitlock’s Four-Phase Polymidge", but It is a simple and supposedly highly effective pattern.  I have never used it, but the design seems very good, and all the stories I’ve heard? Convincing!    Meroli

Response:

Steve Wrote <snip Of course if your fish are totally switched on to a 3.75 mm pupae with a bluey-silver sheen  you may need a whole lot of luck as well… Its taken nine off-seasons to come up with couple of tactics and flies that work consistently on midge feeders during the middle of the day.

Have any of you heard of the Silver Savior (as featured in Field and Stream)? It can barely be called a fly, It is supposed to work when trout seem to be "feeding on microscopic bubbles!" (pronounced with a tone of frustration). Unfortunately, I forgot how it is tied!  I can say that it is tied on a #22-#32 size hook, with almost no materials.  The author of the article said that he invented it to imitate a tiny air bubble.       Meroli

Response:

AJ Bests patterns in FR&R about a year ago are interesting,  using  the edge from a zip lock baggie!  Will try them out in one week at Lees Ferry.  Report to follow.   Al Schuh-fly

Response:

The best website for the San Juan,     www.ifly4trout.com    , has lots of midge patterns

Response:

Question:

Hi Farns, No I haven’t worked for a software company although I do derive my livelihood in a tougher hi-tech industry that survives (or not) when a company provides second class service or a product that just doesn’t work right first time.   I don’t possess a copy of Fly! so my comments are/were generic and aimed at no Publisher in particular.  There is one well known major publishing house that consistently thinks ‘close enough is near enough’ and their Ops Normal is to release today and patch tomorrow to get the cash. Such attitides pressure the developers into wrapping a product at a deadline regardless of build standard.  These guys usually respond to bug problems only after they get caught out and if people scream loud enough.  In some cases publishers stonewall, and keep their heads firmly embedded in their asses and pretend products are without fault. By any appraisal of the complaints, and some responses from the Publishers, some propblems were known at pressing and others are so obvious  it’s hard to figure out why they were let slip by.  Says a lot about the Beta Testers for different Publishers who – from my personal knowledge – are typically ‘yes men’ afraid to open their mouths and delay production.  Some Publishers just don’t like bad news and some Beta Testers just like the freebies.  Both do consumers a disservice. If you have continual ready access to on-line updates that takes much of the annoyance out of buying an untested product.  From what I read here Fly! has not made a lot of friends because of that philosophy.   The purpose of my posting was to say that a lot do not have what you and I take for granted.  It would be nice to believe that publishers would listen to these daily wake-up calls and show the consumers – who put food on their tables when it’s all said and done – a little more consideration.  Nobody is perfect – least of all moi but – but some just never learn from past mistakes. Let’s not forget that this is all about having fun.  When the crass commercialism makes it less fun and more stress, folks are more likely to go back to playing golf or fishing rgds, — Steve Small Canberra, Australia

Response:

regarding Re: Fly! Give’em a break: We understand, they work hard for a software in version 1.0 And first patch is already out.  They post announcements on www.avsim.com free site compared to their competitor (flightsim) –  wich is great since is open to everybody.

<SNIP The limited membership registration for www.flightsim.com is free, I’m using it and it works fine. So it is open to everybody , you just have to register. — Tomas Wil

Question:

(currently resident in bolivia)

Response:

Further evidence that people like us that venture forth into the malodorous backwaters of the unmoderated usenet need to be on our toes for *anything*, and that maybe this is *not* a good place for the squeamish and children, someone has posted a nekkid .jpg in the fishing pictures group.   Someday, the usenet will sport a web-page like rating system, but until then, please consider the neighborhood you are driving into… Just a warning… TimW Of course, one could argue that this is a pic showing the source of fly tying materials for the "Hairy Mary".

Response:

TimW Of course, one could argue that this is a pic showing the source of fly tying materials for the "Hairy Mary".

Well, at least you made your post fly-tying related.  Just be glad it wasn’t a related photograph showing the source for Tup’s Indispensible. *<|:-#)=-   (Santa Smiley) -Clyde

Response:

someone has posted a nekkid .jpg in the fishing pictures group. Have you reported it to net.abuse.*?

No, but I will… TimW

Response:

someone has posted a nekkid .jpg in the fishing pictures group.   Have you reported it to net.abuse.*?

Unfortunately, that’ll be akin to blowing against the wind… The professional spam artists (how’s that for an oxymoron?) seek out groups with "binaries" as part of the name and bombard them with ads for their porn sites. Get used to it – it’ll only get worse as the group propagates around Usenet… Cheers! /dave <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< < Digital Equipment Corp.       Alpha Server Engineering < < Parker Street Campus            Maynard, Massachusetts   < <        Charter Member of "Curmudgeons Unlimited"       < <<<<<<<<<<<< AMA 548313 <<<<<<<<<<<< Disclaimer: Opinion and content is mine alone, and unlikely             to be shared by my employer, etc…

Response:

: Have you reported it to net.abuse.*? : Unfortunately, that’ll be akin to blowing against the wind… : The professional spam artists (how’s that for an oxymoron?) seek out groups : with "binaries" as part of the name and bombard them with ads for their porn : sites. Get used to it – it’ll only get worse as the group propagates around : Usenet… Which is one reason I hate GUI newsreaders. All they do is allow stupid people to abuse the newsgroups. Even the binaries newsgroups had little trouble before Netscape and others like it allowed you to view pictures directly from the newsgroups. USENET predates the internet but if things keep up like this USENET will soon be just a minor website. It sucks. BiNM

Response:

For some reason I got a notice that said this group has been deleted?  Does it still exist? Pete – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – someone has posted a nekkid .jpg in the fishing pictures group.   Have you reported it to net.abuse.*?

Response:

Question:

Now that summer is more than half over, thoughts about a mid winter break are stirring. What are the best places in bahamas for bonefishing holiday in terms of price, ease to get to, accomodations, and, of course, fishing opportunties. How far in advance must one book. what are the best travel people to use. I(s there a better choice from the North east US? Your thoughts are appreciated.

Response:

Now that summer is more than half over, thoughts about a mid winter break are stirring. What are the best places in bahamas for bonefishing holiday in terms of price, ease to get to, accomodations, and, of course, fishing opportunties. How far in advance must one book. what are the best travel people to use. I(s there a better choice from the North east US? Your thoughts are appreciated.

November is a good time for a fall trip to the Bahamas, the FL Keys or Central America. There are many excellent destinations to choose from. Call Frontier Travel at 1-800-245-1950 and they can send you some good info on many lodges. William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA

Response:

Question:

would someone please repost the address for the vote on the fly tying group. thank you — Gerry Hudson Judy Hudson

Response:

would someone please repost the address for the vote on the fly tying group.

Send an email message with one of the following two lines (and only that in the message) as the text of the message: I vote YES to rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.tying I vote NO to rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.tying Please vote if you haven’t done so.  There are only 9 days left to vote. — John Fereira Isis Distributed Systems – Ithaca, NY

Response:

Question:

Greg, sounds like you got some good advice from Gene. Would also like to throw in the name of a good guide in Sterling. John Lesterson PO Box 865 Sterling, AK 99673 907-262-7319 Has a Halibut boat, Dory boat for Kenai salmon fishing and does trips in remote areas for trophy sized Rainbows. Have a blast, Steve

Response:

I am looking for all the information I can find concerning the fishing & camping situation for the Anchorage(within 2- 3 hours) – Kenai area. I am looking for a day guide for three persons. Also I am looking for 2 – 3 different areas to camp with good fishing as well as good sightseeing there and on the trip to get there. Almost finally I am looking for specific information on what is working and where. Finally, I am looking for a book or guide covering any or all of the above info. P.S. I would also like crowd updates Our trip will cover AUG21 – AUG27 Thank you, Greg in GA

Response:

Greg,  August is one of the best times to be on the Kenai.  Most of the toursist crowd is gone, hunting is starting so the locals are changing sports and the Silver and Rainbow fishing is great. Some tent camp areas are the Russian River camp area (near the town of Coopers Landing), the Quartz Creek campground (on Kenai lake at the headwaters of the river), plus a whole series of campgrounds along the river at Jims Landing, Upper Skilak Lake & Lower Skilak Lake (if you are going to fish the middle section of the river), Centenial Park (in Soldotna – for fishing the lower river).  Russian is the nicest in my opinion because you can walk the river to the falls and sight fish rainbows and Silvers, plus you generally can see a bear or two. Flies to use are generally Flash Flies and bright flies for Silvers, Flesh Flies and Egg patters for the Rainbows and Dollies Some good books are "Fishing the Kenai Peninsula" by Dan Sisson, "Flyfishing Alaska" by Tony Route and "Fly Patters of Alaska" by AK Flyfishers Federation (for pattens).  Don’t get that fishing the road system of Alaska by Pederton (guy was a tourist, spent probally two weeks here and wrote a book by reading others). Some good guide companies are Freebird (Mike out of Sterling – have his number in the office.  Will E-mail), and Troutfishers in Cooper Landing – will send also by E -mail.   — Gene Dobrzynski, Eagle River, Alaska

Response:

Question:

Serious question; what’s the difference besides price?

For one, the no-see-um netting doesn’t! * Todd Merriman – Software Toolz, Inc. +1 706 889 8264  * Maintainer of the * * 8030 Pooles Mill Dr., Ball Ground, GA 30107-9610      * Software          * * UUCP: …!emory!slammer!toolz!todd                    * Entrepreneur’s    * Never knock on Death’s door. Ring the bell and run away.  Death really hates that.

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Serious question; what’s the difference besides price?  I’ve never done

One weekend in Colorado we were sleeping in a NF tent went the wind must have started blowing 80 mph.  It felt like it was going to lift us up in the tent.  The ends of the poles flared where a plug is inserted that fits into a grommet.   The tent was 5 years old.  I sent the poles back and got new ones FREE. A K-Mart tent would have been shredded. I’ve also broken a zipper on an OLD NF daypack.  They fixed the zipper and fixed up some fraying edges for FREE. We stuck a new NF sleeping bag in the dryer when the heat switch didn’t work on the "NO HEAT" position.  It melted a 4"x6" hole in the bag.  NF repaired it and added down for $20. And like other people said they don’t leak. I use gear hard and will only buy from NF and similar companies. Mort

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I am testing my posting capabilities.

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Serious question; what’s the difference besides price?  I’ve never done One weekend in Colorado we were sleeping in a NF tent went the wind must have started blowing 80 mph.  It felt like it was going to lift us up in the tent.  The ends of the poles flared where a plug is inserted that fits into a grommet.  

I spent a week on the outer banks ( North Carolina ) with a ‘kmart’ type dome tent.  One night a storm hit with winds in the 40-60 mph range.  All night long I heard car doors slamming and vehicles leaving,  the tent flexed and got a little water in it but withstood the storm.  In the morning there were 3 other campers left in the campground ( about 30 people left during the night ).  However years later while airing the tent in my backyard one corner of the fly came loose ( the elastic cord was shot by then ) and my dog ( a puppy then ) proceded to destroy the tent.   bob

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One night a storm hit with winds in the 40-60 mph range.  All night long I heard car doors slamming and vehicles leaving,  the tent flexed and got a little water in it but withstood the storm.  In the morning there were 3 other campers left in the campground ( about 30 people left during the night ).

It was probably the people, not their tents, that broke down. — -Wayne Trzyna

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 Serious question; what’s the difference besides price?  I’ve never done  serious backcountry camping (yet), but I’ve camped out in some fairly  cold places.  On my last cross-country trip, I woke up in the morning  when the temperature was freezing, but I’d been perfectly warm in my  $40 K-mart tent and my $30 Coleman rectangular sleeping bag.    lesson one: You get what you pay for.    The main reason a NF tent cost more is the quality of the materials    used. The poles are 7075 aircraft alluminium not cheap fiberglass    that will snap on you. The biggest part of the cost is the poles.    Survival factor: If my life is on the line in a blizzard at 12,000    feet for four days I dont think I want to trust a $40.00 tent, if it    fails you die. If you don’t venture into these parts then a K-Mart    tent is fine.    One other reason is that The North Face will stand by it’s products    for life. Even if you muck it up yourself they will fix it for a small    charge.    One tent failure in dangerous weather will teach you this lesson,    trust me, I’ve been there…. Certified Gearhead:            Tim

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Serious question; what’s the difference besides price?  I’ve never done serious backcountry camping (yet), but I’ve camped out in some fairly cold places.  On my last cross-country trip, I woke up in the morning when the temperature was freezing, but I’d been perfectly warm in my $40 K-mart tent and my $30 Coleman rectangular sleeping bag. Granted, I got soaked when it rained the next day, but I hadn’t put on the rainfly. —                 -ed falk, sun microsystems         "Towards the end, the smell of their air began to change"

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Serious question; what’s the difference besides price?   Well, I owned a $40 tent from a large department store not unlike K-mart, and now own a $150 tent from a chain not unlike North Face. The big differents  is rain. The 40 buck tent leaked even with the rainfly.  So far not one drop has ever gotten into the $150 tent.

I have a dome tent that I bought on sale from JC Penny for $35.  It’s rain fly does cover the whole tent.  I’ve seam-sealed it and it is reasonably water proof from above.  The floor isn’t — I learned the hard way about that.  I put a tarp down under the tent that was bigger than the tent and it channeled water under the tent that saoked through and into my sleeping bag. But I’ve been in nasty storms and it’s held out well.  My wife has made a winter-season fly with a vestibule for the tent, altho’ it wouldn’t hold up with a lot of snow on it. Is it as good as a North Face?  Of course not.  But it works for me, holds my wife, myself, our dog and our boots and not much else.  And it fit our budget. — Are you thinking of telephones and managers and where you got to be at noon?

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Here is the history of a K-mart tent, to illustrate its strengths and weaknesses:    It was made in Tiawan.  $50 in the early 70’s.  Made of a single layer of coated nylon (no rain fly).  A "wall tent" design; think of an old-fashioned pup tent with vertical sides underneath.  A big tent, comfortable for three. Advantages: I could afford it.  Lots of room. Only four pounds! Disadvantages: it took fourteen stakes and eight guy lines to set the damn thing up.  A pain at best, and sometimes it was impossible to find a large and soft enough site for it.  Surprisingly, neither leakage nor condensation were a problem. I used this thing on many hard-core wilderness trips over many years.  Was never so foolish as to use it above timberline or in winter, of course. Finally – -One year, way back in the Wind Rivers, a heavy windstorm came up and tore out the grommet supporting one pole.  Spent a wild couple of hours outside holding the thing up while a companion sewed it back together with fishing leader. -Next year, camped in the Snake River Plain on the way to the Cariboos.  A    _really_ _heavy_ rain came up, and the tent leaked and finally collapsed in the middle of the night.  Spent the night in the truck, and the next day in Idaho Falls drying our gear and shopping for a big tarp to use as a rain fly; the Cariboos are rain forest!  A big tarp rigged over the tent worked great on what became the rainiest trip I’ve ever taken,  but made pitching camp a big job.  And wouldn’t have worked in a heavy wind. – Two years after that, camped in a heavy rain near Stowe, Vermont. Packed the tent wet and didn’t get around to drying it for a week.  It turned out that the zippers, stake loops, etc. were cotton, and they all fell apart. I sadly trashed it and sewed up a Frostline Kodiak. _That_ is the difference between North Face and K-Mart. (BTW I now use a North Face Westwind. Damn good tent.)                         Chuck Smythe

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| Serious question; what’s the difference besides price?  I’ve never done | serious backcountry camping (yet), but I’ve camped out in some fairly | cold places.  On my last cross-country trip, I woke up in the morning | when the temperature was freezing, but I’d been perfectly warm in my | $40 K-mart tent and my $30 Coleman rectangular sleeping bag. | | Granted, I got soaked when it rained the next day, but I hadn’t put on | the rainfly. | | — |           -ed falk, sun microsystems |   "Towards the end, the smell of their air began to change" (1) Weight, (2) Durability, (3) Service. The $40 K-Mart tent is going to be heavier, and the seams may not be sewn as solidly.  There may be more seams than optimal (i.e. the tent may be optimized for ease of production, which may not necessarily be optimal for rough conditions).  Finally, if something ever goes wrong with a North Face, Sierra Designs, Walrus, (or whatever) tent, you just bring it back to the store.  They’ll send it back to the manufacturer to fix it.  Doesn’t matter how old the tent is (as long as it doesn’t look like a bear chewed it). (Actually, this last is from hearsay.  I’ve only experienced their customer service in regards to a backpack; I’ve heard about their customer service with respect to sleeping bags, and I’m extrapolating to tents). As for the sleeping bag:  Frankly, you must be a warm sleeper.  My $30 Coleman rectangular bag is *barely* adequate as a comforter.  It has at most 1.5" of loft; it’s heavy; it won’t squoosh down into a small package; it’s not particularly windproof or water resistant (though the fill fiber is synthetic).  (Its weight is maybe 7 or 8 lbs, though that’s a guess.  My mummy bag weighs under 3 lbs, has 6" of loft, and is *highly* wind and water resistant.  Of course, I do feel like a sardine when I sleep in my mummy bag). — Hy

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  lesson one: You get what you pay for.   The main reason a NF tent cost more is the quality of the materials   used. The poles are 7075 aircraft alluminium not cheap fiberglass   that will snap on you. The biggest part of the cost is the poles.   Survival factor: If my life is on the line in a blizzard at 12,000   feet for four days I dont think I want to trust a $40.00 tent, if it   fails you die. If you don’t venture into these parts then a K-Mart   tent is fine.   One tent failure in dangerous weather will teach you this lesson,   trust me, I’ve been there….

  I agree completely. The main difference between NF (or any other quality manufacturer) is the quality of the materials and the quality of the work. Good gear lasts forever (practically) if you take care of it. Cheap gear always breaks when you least want it to. Cheap tents leak more, poles break easier, grommets pull out, seam stitching tears out, etc… When I used to be a full-time guide, I saw more trips ruined by clients bringing cheap gear and having it break down. I understand that $$$ is always a consideration but I believe that you should always buy the best gear you can afford. Even a cheap tent by a good brand is better than going to Kmart, or whereever. I’d recommend renting good gear instead of buying the cheap stuff. Even if your’re not at 12,000 ft in a blizzard, the goal is to have FUN, which is impossible if you gear fails. RIPS (Raster Image Processing Systems)           uunet!solbourne.com!rips!rob 4665 Nautilus Court South                    << KERNAL: Panic, core dumped Boulder, CO 80301                         Darkstar crashes, pouring its light (303) 530-2910                              into ashes, reason tatters, …

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Serious question; what’s the difference besides price?

The other suggestions and answers cover the subject pretty well, so I will only add this: The cheap tent can be upgraded, providing it handles the basics as it is. Work it over with the best seam sealer you can get. Replace those funky heavy fiberglass poles with aluminum poles cut to the proper size. I would only use it for summer camping and weekend fair-weather backpacking. I did the above upgrading to an old $50 two man dome tent, and it works fine. The poles I got at REI in a bin used for tent returns. The tent is much liter now, and easy to backpack on those overnighters. For longer trips I use my North Face Tadpole NHP, which I am very pleased with. One reason to add to the other reasons to go with a more expensive (= durable) tent, is the weight. The Tadpole is 4 pounds, and packs down to a very small size, not to mention a breeze to put up, something to be thankful in a sudden rain shower or snow shower, I know. Between the 2 to 3 pounds the down bag saves me, and the three pounds the tent saves me, I have 5 pounds less to carry: pick up a 5 pound weight, and you will see it is nothing to sneeze at. Add that to the other areas you can trim weight, and it begins to add up. Unfortunately, there is a correlation between quality durable lightweight equipment and its cost… | "Bully! Bully!" – T. Roosevelt with John Muir at Glacier Point       | | "The mountains are calling me, and I must go."   John Muir           | |"Man has got astray out of his orbit, or away from the ends for which | | he was created." John Muir.                                          |

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"What’s the difference between a North Face tent and a K-Mart ten..besides price?"

Well, I’ve got a Eureka Timberline (4-person), a $15 K-Mart 2 man and a Sierra Designs Flash Cliplight.  I can’t talk about North Face per se, but I can give some general comparisons. The real cheap tents have a single non-breathing roof.  Unless you have very dry weather, you get condensation, even with the "window" open. There is no covered overhang, so when it rains, you have to "close it up" and you get more condensation. The fabric is lightweight and not "ripstop".  That means if a tear starts it is more likely to continue than in a better made tent. Also, the seems are not done as well and are not as strong.  For a single overnight in a reasonable situation, its probably okay. But I wouldn’t want to have to depend on it for my life in a week long trip. OTOH, the cheap tents are often lightweight.  That’s nice for carrying.  And you don’t have a big investment so you don’t have to worry about protecting it (I ususally save more weight by not using a ground cloth, which I do use with my better tents.) IMO, the cheap tents are not too bad for simple trips in mild conditions.  But I wouldn’t depend on one for a week long trip. Ken

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Serious question; what’s the difference besides price?  I’ve never done serious backcountry camping (yet), but I’ve camped out in some fairly cold places.  On my last cross-country trip, I woke up in the morning when the temperature was freezing, but I’d been perfectly warm in my $40 K-mart tent and my $30 Coleman rectangular sleeping bag. Granted, I got soaked when it rained the next day, but I hadn’t put on the rainfly.

Well, I owned a $40 tent from a large department store not unlike K-mart, and now own a $150 tent from a chain not unlike North Face. The big differents  is rain. The 40 buck tent leaked even with the rainfly.  So far not one drop has ever gotten into the $150 tent. But, the experience with the $40 really helped me in figuring out what makes a good rain proof tent.  And I really learn the value of seam sealers.  My $40 tent I didn’t use any seam sealer.  The $150 tent I used 2 bottles.  Would the $40 tent have leaked as much if I’d sealed it?  Probably.  The rain fly  on the $40 didn’t cover the tent completely.  So, as seen from above, parts of the tent were exposed.  I made sure the rain fly on the $150 tent completely covered the tent (actual a few places stick out).   Also, the seams that joined the floor and walls at ground level on the $40 tent. On the $150 tent, the floor sort of extents up and becomes the wall for 6 inches, so the wall/floor seam is 6 inches high and under the rain fly. HOMEBREW NAKED!                                  UUCP: …!ames!watson

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