Question:

Actually, flyrods are more since that was quoted correctly.  Secondary part costs have increased dramatically since the Clinton defascoes and Greenspan screw ups with the economy.

So until you give me a new figure let’s work with a  100% increase on costs over the past four years (although I can’t beleive it should be this high). That still implies a helathy profit of several 100%. You have not used the correct price at all.  Most of the fly rods are around $500 – $700.  

Check your own website. I clearly stated I was using the MSRP which is quoted at $1620 to $3000. This is the price you expect a retailer to charge for your rods. or did you post a hugely inflated MSRP in order to make your rods appear to be worth more tahn they really are. Surely that would be unethical… George Gehrke "bamboosan" http://www.gink.com George Gehrke "lowest priced bamboo fly rods regardless"

And this is wrong too. Your MSRPs for your product line rods are higher (and in some cases considerably higher) than the price of most handmade rods which, as you have admitted yourself in the past, have higher quality.

Response:

The Cortland "444 Clear Camo" is the most popular here in California, USA, planet earth.

For those in the know (such as my cat) the inter-galactic postal service now requires both "Galaxy" AND "ZIP + AZ + RA" for speedy delivery… K

Response:

  Where the fuck are those guys in white coats when you need them? Playing Poker over at Wayne Harrison’s house:  Joker’s Wild? Glad to see you’re not brain dead yet by responding to my troll of vulgarity. My apologies for the civilized language. Mr.G. "back to regular casting"

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Actually, flyrods are more since that was quoted correctly.  Secondary  part costs have increased dramatically since the Clinton defascoes and  Greenspan screw ups with the economy. So until you give me a new figure let’s work with a  100% increase on costs over the past four years (although I can’t beleive it should be this high). That still implies a helathy profit of several 100%. You have not used the correct price at all.  Most of the fly rods are  around $500 – $700. Check your own website. I clearly stated I was using the MSRP which is quoted at $1620 to $3000. This is the price you expect a retailer to charge for your rods. or did you post a hugely inflated MSRP in order to make your rods appear to be worth more tahn they really are. Surely that would be unethical… Whoa, right here ass hole.  You don’t know for jack shit the quality of our fly rods.  Admit it!  Where is your source of knowledge derived from?? Other assholes?

You should learn to read and comprehend and control your infamous short-temper. You are supposed to be a mature adult, so why not start acting like one. I did not say your rods are of bad quality. I asked if they were really worth $1600 to $3000, which are prices commanded by top quality, hand made rods, constructed by gentlemen with many years of craftmanship behind them. You have often commneted yourself that your rods are of porduction line quality, and, while they may or may not be the best production line rods in the world, I find it hard to believe they are of the same quality level as the handmade rods, and therefore worth an equivalent amount. So, I ask you, would you put your rod with a MSRP of $3000 (note, I said MSRP, not "special online price") up against a hand-made rod charged at $3000? Would you gurantee your rod to be of the same quality and standard as that handmade rod? I’ll tell you what.  I dare you, if you wish to see a beautiful bamboo to order one and in your case you will pay in advance for a Bastard for a bastard.  I will defy you to  be able to find fault with it compared to any other bamboo fly rod in the world. Okay, you chicken shit son of a bitch.  What say you? George Gehrke bamboosan

I have no wish whatsoever to do business with a man who uses such language and shows such obvious contempt for his "customers". I am very choosy about who I give my money to. Sorry.

Response:

Some people wonder why the hell little bottles of Floatant sell for $20 NZ here…

Is there money to be made smuggling Albolene to NZ? — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Some people wonder why the hell little bottles of Floatant sell for $20 NZ here… Clark

You can always order factory direct as ours don’t sell for that there Clark. Even the cost of postage would be cheaper than what it takes you to drive to the store. Your Pal, George

Response:

Some people wonder why the hell little bottles of Floatant sell for $20 NZ here… Clark

Um, isn’t that about 8.00USD?  Granted, more expensive than in the US, but considering the costs involved versus the market, that doesn’t, on the face of it, sound so outrageous.  Of course, if it’s Ginkle’s Gunk, I can see the basis for your confusion… TC, R

Response:

Rusty?  I did an extensive article with drawings on how fly lines are made. The engineering has been paid for long ago and that deals with line tapers mainly.  What does change are coatings and finishes.  That is all. The process is so simple as to boggle the mind and the cost of making a fly line is indeed one of the lowest in American Manufacturing in the industry. This is why one can readily appreciate HOW a company like Cortland can afford full page ads in magazines.  The profit margin is so vast as to be literally obnoxious and unfair.  Just like Frog Butt, the fly fishermen of America are NOT getting a square or honest deal when it comes to fly lines. No joke.  Fly lines from all the manufacturers are over priced.  I mean, WAY over priced! Consider this.  A Cortland 333 or 444 could be bought in Wal-Mart here in Lewiston Idaho just a week ago and  for several years for the low, Low, LOW price of only $11.57.  Would you like to hear the rest of the story? The new (and I wonder about this term as a hype bite) 555 Cortland costs no more to make than any other Cortland Fly Line.  If they cost more, okay; I’ll let you increase that factor about what this article is worth.  How about .02 Cents? George Gehrke Each of these fly lines all cast the same, believe it or not.  It’s nothing to get excited about.  Fly lines are expendable and as far as I’m concerned, the 555 should sell for LESS THAN Twenty dollars per line. You know everyone?  I keep saying this time and time again.  The packaging costs more than what it takes to make a fly line and the labor required is not much at all, but for some odd reason this fact just doesn’t soak in. Fly line companies need to be boycotted if you want to get them back into the honesty game, like it or not.  Thing is, it’s all I mainly fish with is Cortland Fly Lines but I use only the fairly priced ones and always will. George Gehrke "Inside Trade Secrets"

Response:

Yep! Clark

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Some people wonder why the hell little bottles of Floatant sell for $20 NZ here… Is there money to be made smuggling Albolene to NZ? — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Yep basically but my point was, even at $8.00 US, for what it is some people just are not in a position to be bitching about how Cortland prices its lines, apart from the obvious factors already pointed out about the engineering and development and manufacture of new lines. Cortland didn’t just find a material used to keep ladies knickers up and repackage it as an expensive fly line. Clark

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Some people wonder why the hell little bottles of Floatant sell for $20 NZ here… Clark Um, isn’t that about 8.00USD?  Granted, more expensive than in the US, but considering the costs involved versus the market, that doesn’t, on the face of it, sound so outrageous.  Of course, if it’s Ginkle’s Gunk, I can see the basis for your confusion… TC, R

Response:

Yep basically but my point was, even at $8.00 US, for what it is some people just are not in a position to be bitching about how Cortland prices its lines, apart from the obvious factors already pointed out about the engineering and development and manufacture of new lines. Cortland didn’t just find a material used to keep ladies knickers up and repackage it as an expensive fly line.

My article on how easy it is to put some PVC plastic on a string apart from engineering which has been done years ago and paid for ten thousand times over, machinery that hasn’t changed in fifty years in making the web core and the automated ejection dies that cost a dime a dozen, is long ago paid for. It is just the change of plastic advances.  Cortland or S.Anglers all buy the plastics by the thousand pound box lots and it’s cheap.  The cost of the plastic coating the fly line you’re using today is about a 1/20th of a cent worth, if that. I know what a fair price for a fly line is and you don’t Clark.  I’m telling you that you can make it sound extravagant but it isn’t.  The art work on a fly line box is more extravagant than the line, believe that.  My point is simple.  Fly lines are over priced. George Gehrke The exchange rate where you are is indeed just numbers.  You have the same buying power and that is not America’s fault now, is it?  How much money is good wages per hour there?  A hundred dollars an hour or three dollars an hour?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Rusty?  I did an extensive article with drawings on how fly lines are made. The engineering has been paid for long ago and that deals with line tapers mainly.  What does change are coatings and finishes.  That is all. The process is so simple as to boggle the mind and the cost of making a fly line is indeed one of the lowest in American Manufacturing in the industry. This is why one can readily appreciate HOW a company like Cortland can afford full page ads in magazines.  The profit margin is so vast as to be literally obnoxious and unfair.  Just like Frog Butt, the fly fishermen of America are NOT getting a square or honest deal when it comes to fly lines. No joke.  Fly lines from all the manufacturers are over priced.  I mean, WAY over priced! Consider this.  A Cortland 333 or 444 could be bought in Wal-Mart here in Lewiston Idaho just a week ago and  for several years for the low, Low, LOW price of only $11.57.  Would you like to hear the rest of the story? The new (and I wonder about this term as a hype bite) 555 Cortland costs no more to make than any other Cortland Fly Line.  If they cost more, okay; I’ll let you increase that factor about what this article is worth.  How about .02 Cents? George Gehrke Each of these fly lines all cast the same, believe it or not.  It’s nothing to get excited about.  Fly lines are expendable and as far as I’m concerned, the 555 should sell for LESS THAN Twenty dollars per line. You know everyone?  I keep saying this time and time again.  The packaging costs more than what it takes to make a fly line and the labor required is not much at all, but for some odd reason this fact just doesn’t soak in. Fly line companies need to be boycotted if you want to get them back into the honesty game, like it or not.  Thing is, it’s all I mainly fish with is Cortland Fly Lines but I use only the fairly priced ones and always will. George Gehrke "Inside Trade Secrets"

"I assure everyone here, you can build the finest bamboo fly rod in the world for less then $50 – $65 dollars. " George Gehrke, 31 December 1998 Quoted _retail price_ on www.gink.com  = $1620 Profit = 1620 – 80  = $1540  (allowing for some inflation!) % Profit = almost 2000 %.  That’s quite some markup! Note: This is not the "special offer if you buy via the internet price", but the manufacturer’s suggested retail price for a Blonde model. If you want a Black Raven at MDRP of $3000, the markup is closer to 3650 %. It is up to the reader to decide whether these are the "finest bamboo" in the world. What should we think about such high markups? "The more commercial you become the lower the manufacturing costs UP to a CERTAIN point. Then things average out to around $49.95 each. THAT rod is now being sold for $2500! Which is such a con job as to require all of us to march upon Orvis and other Overpricing Fly Rod Manufacturers who are "Over-Charging" and we should slap them silly. " George Gehrke,  31 December 1998 What can we do but agree with this sage advice. The line forms on my right…

Response:

"Rapscallion"   YOU!  You chickenshit sonofabitch, who doesn’t have the balls to present your own real name dares to challenge me, the God and Ruler of Roff?  I’m George Gehrke, the one and only.  Who are you.  Nothing? George Gehrke "a somebody" And proud of it.

Where the fuck are those guys in white coats when you need them?

Response:

"Rapscallion"   YOU!  You chickenshit sonofabitch, who doesn’t have the balls to present your own real name dares to challenge me, the God and Ruler of Roff?  I’m George Gehrke, the one and only.  Who are you.  Nothing? George Gehrke "a somebody" And proud of it.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Actually, flyrods are more since that was quoted correctly.  Secondary part costs have increased dramatically since the Clinton defascoes and Greenspan screw ups with the economy. So until you give me a new figure let’s work with a  100% increase on costs over the past four years (although I can’t beleive it should be this high). That still implies a helathy profit of several 100%. You have not used the correct price at all.  Most of the fly rods are around $500 – $700. Check your own website. I clearly stated I was using the MSRP which is quoted at $1620 to $3000. This is the price you expect a retailer to charge for your rods. or did you post a hugely inflated MSRP in order to make your rods appear to be worth more tahn they really are. Surely that would be unethical…

Whoa, right here ass hole.  You don’t know for jack shit the quality of our fly rods.  Admit it!  Where is your source of knowledge derived from?? Other assholes? I’ll tell you what.  I dare you, if you wish to see a beautiful bamboo to order one and in your case you will pay in advance for a Bastard for a bastard.  I will defy you to  be able to find fault with it compared to any other bamboo fly rod in the world. Okay, you chicken shit son of a bitch.  What say you? George Gehrke bamboosan

Response:

For just about any manufactured goods, the cost of raw materials is minor compared to the costs incurred in research and development, manufacture, distribution, and promotion. Basing the "fair price" of a flyline on the cost of bulk PVC is about the same as saying that split-cane flyrods shouldn’t cost any more than 20 or 30 dollars because they are made of little more than bamboo, cork, steel, and nickel. Besides that, there is currently enough competition in the fly line market that I seriously doubt that an artificially high price would last for very long.

This is very true, but misleading and not entirely correct.  The general rule of thumb that I have found is that wholesale is roughly half of retail and wholesale is over two times the cost of production.  You are basically paying for the manufacturer to make a profit and then the retailer to make a profit.  My friend was signed up with several business that had guide programs and I got to see some of the price sheets for Orvis and others.  What was costing me $5 (brass beads), he was getting for $1.50 or so.  If you knew the mark up on stuff like hackle, fly rods, etc you would shit your pants, which wouldn’t be a problem if you were paying wholesale because you could afford a pair just to crap in.  The glasses I wanted that were $150, he could get for $45.  Unlike other industries, the mark ups on fly fishing gear is huge.  Those that are able to afford it do so.  Those that can’t afford it but still want it sacrifice and buy it anyways.  Those that can’t afford it buy something that is a good substitute but within their price range.  I think the fly fishing industry has basically nickled and dimed us over the years to find the upper limits of what we are willing to pay as consumers and have been very effective at doing so.  The few manufacturers that start off at discounted prices eventually join up with the rest and start charging the same as everyone else.  Look at rod prices for instance. — Warren change addy to yahoo for email Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt3/HFclave.html

Response:

Actually, flyrods are more since that was quoted correctly.  Secondary part costs have increased dramatically since the Clinton defascoes and Greenspan screw ups with the economy. You have not used the correct price at all.  Most of the fly rods are around $500 – $700.  Just the ferrules which are all American Made  usually are nearly $200 worth.  That is not my idea of fair pricing either.  Then there are the Agate Guides, snake guides, reel seat, cork, labor. No, we don’t over charge but you sure do know how to blue sky and put things out of context.  As a Roffian, you fit right in. George Gehrke "bamboosan" http://www.gink.com George Gehrke "lowest priced bamboo fly rods regardless"

Response:

I know what a fair price for a fly line is and you don’t Clark.  I’m telling you that you can make it sound extravagant but it isn’t.  The art work on a fly line box is more extravagant than the line, believe that.  My point is simple.  Fly lines are over priced.

For just about any manufactured goods, the cost of raw materials is minor compared to the costs incurred in research and development, manufacture, distribution, and promotion. Basing the "fair price" of a flyline on the cost of bulk PVC is about the same as saying that split-cane flyrods shouldn’t cost any more than 20 or 30 dollars because they are made of little more than bamboo, cork, steel, and nickel. Besides that, there is currently enough competition in the fly line market that I seriously doubt that an artificially high price would last for very long. — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyoming

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I know what a fair price for a fly line is and you don’t Clark.  I’m telling you that you can make it sound extravagant but it isn’t.  The art work on a fly line box is more extravagant than the line, believe that.  My point is simple.  Fly lines are over priced. For just about any manufactured goods, the cost of raw materials is minor compared to the costs incurred in research and development, manufacture, distribution, and promotion. Basing the "fair price" of a flyline on the cost of bulk PVC is about the same as saying that split-cane flyrods shouldn’t cost any more than 20 or 30 dollars because they are made of little more than bamboo, cork, steel, and nickel. Besides that, there is currently enough competition in the fly line market that I seriously doubt that an artificially high price would last for very long. — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyoming

You make a compelling point and I bow to it. George

Response:

Any opinions on the best full sinking line for stillwater applications? steve haun sioux falls

Response:

Any opinions on the best full sinking line for stillwater applications?

Depends what you require of it. We do a lot of reservoir fishing from boats here in the U.K. We use everything from neutral density (barely breaks through the surface) through to some fairly scary high density fly lines (e.g. Airflo DI7 and DI8). Note that these last named are proper casting tapers, not just lengths of lead core trolling line. If I were to pick only one sinking line, I’d probably choose a 3M Scientific Anglers WetCel 1 intermediate – popularly known here by its colour: the ‘Kelly Green’. It’s a nice line to cast and generally useful. Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

Response:

Some people wonder why the hell little bottles of Floatant sell for $20 NZ here… Clark

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Bill?  I went to my favorite or nearest Fly Shop and looked at the Cortland 555 and for $60 Cortland isn’t offering much for something that only cost them .87 Cents to make.  Hell, the packaging cost more! I just wish there was more honesty in fly line pricing than what is taking place in America today.  These fly lines should not be retailing for any more than about $15 each and this is the truth… The 555 is a new line, and the people who developed it, advertise it, distribute it, etc, all need to get paid. If they sold for only $15, the engineers (and others) currently in the flyfishing industry would move on to greener pastures, or the companies would go out of business. Maybe both. With the kind of fishing I do, and the kind of budget I’m currently living with, the budget lines made by Cortland and SA suit me just fine. OTOH, it’s nice to know that they (and others) are constantly innovating. There is a price to pay for having the newest, slickest line, but judging by the sales of high-end fly tackle, there are plenty of customers who are willing to pay for it, just as there are plenty of others who are willing to stay with the older-generation lines in order to save money for other things. — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyoming

Response:

Bill?  I went to my favorite or nearest Fly Shop and looked at the Cortland 555 and for $60 Cortland isn’t offering much for something that only cost them .87 Cents to make.  Hell, the packaging cost more! I just wish there was more honesty in fly line pricing than what is taking place in America today.  These fly lines should not be retailing for any more than about $15 each and this is the truth…

The 555 is a new line, and the people who developed it, advertise it, distribute it, etc, all need to get paid. If they sold for only $15, the engineers (and others) currently in the flyfishing industry would move on to greener pastures, or the companies would go out of business. Maybe both. With the kind of fishing I do, and the kind of budget I’m currently living with, the budget lines made by Cortland and SA suit me just fine. OTOH, it’s nice to know that they (and others) are constantly innovating. There is a price to pay for having the newest, slickest line, but judging by the sales of high-end fly tackle, there are plenty of customers who are willing to pay for it, just as there are plenty of others who are willing to stay with the older-generation lines in order to save money for other things. — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyoming

Response:

Hi Steve, We sell most the full sinking weight forward slow sinking clear lines for a lakes. The Cortland "444 Clear Camo" is the most popular here in California, USA, planet earth. Years ago the WF6S type 2,  SA or Cortland was the most popular lake line. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any opinions on the best full sinking line for stillwater applications? steve haun sioux falls

Response:

Bill?  I went to my favorite or nearest Fly Shop and looked at the Cortland 555 and for $60 Cortland isn’t offering much for something that only cost them .87 Cents to make.  Hell, the packaging cost more! I just wish there was more honesty in fly line pricing than what is taking place in America today.  These fly lines should not be retailing for any more than about $15 each and this is the truth. I walked into Lewiston’s Wal-Mart to buy some Cortland 444 fly lines for about the same low price of around $15 and this store said that Wal-Mart pulled not only the Cortland Fly Lines and ALL Fly Line brands but the leaders.  I no sooner got outside to my electronics center (Pick Up) and called 1-800-Wal-Mart and we had a serious discussion about this issue. Seems their light bulb may have come back on.  We will see. George

Response:

Question:

The author made it sound as though anybody with an ounce of sense could catch trout on a fly rod, and it was with that optimism that I had my brother’s rod tip repaired, borrowed a pair of rubber waders from my company’s field dept., and gave it a try.   The author was correct, and I did in fact catch a trout that day, following his advice. . . .  This sound familiar to anybody?

I cannot help with author or title, but run parallel except that I still have the book. 1.  In or before 1967, browsing as usual among second-hand books, I was attracted by Ray Bergman’s Trout (even though I fished seldom, after a summer in northern Ontario) so bought it. 2.  In or about 1970 a girlfriend bought a new car and on delivery wanted a longish trip:  so we drove from Ottawa towards Lake Placid, which I had heard of as a tourist destination: and stopped at a pretty waterfall just beyond the village.  A bronze plaque told us this was the Ausable River and I remembered reading about it in Bergman as famous for trout. 3.  Before the end of the year I got a $9.99 Japanese bamboo rod at the local Canadian Tire store, we borrowed a camping outfit (i.e. squashed an 8×12 ft. canvas tent into the back of a Beetle) and I had landed my first trout on a #14 BWO about 100 ft. upstream of the Hwy. 86 bridge. I could show you the spot to within two feet. I still treasure the book. — Don Phillipson Carlsbad Springs (Ottawa, Canada)

Response:

I can’t remember what it was, so I thought I’d tap the remaining memories of this crowd to see if my description shakes out a title & author.   See, I’d been a spin fisherman for a long time; but when my younger brother left town, he sort of bequeathed to me an old HI glass fly rod.   In some coming together of the cosmos, I picked up a copy of a book on fly fishing one day and began reading.   The author made it sound as though anybody with an ounce of sense could catch trout on a fly rod, and it was with that optimism that I had my brother’s rod tip repaired, borrowed a pair of rubber waders from my company’s field dept., and gave it a try.   The author was correct, and I did in fact catch a trout that day, following his advice. The book itself was not a long or excessively technical book IIRC, and one feature about the book that stands out in my mind was his opinion that streamers were the ticket to make any newbie successful.  (My first was on a little rainbow trout streamer.)   I’ll be darned if I can remember the name of either the book or the author, though. This sound familiar to anybody? Joe F.

Response:

Question:

" Miranda Writes" < wrote This has to be shared with some other newsgroups… WASHINGTON — John Spankitt, president of the Sperm Is Life League

(SPILL) + Please don’t feed the troll.

Response:

(top-posting) [snipped]

Meet my good friend,         Willie, the one-eyed wonder worm – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Also top-posting:  my favorite (stroke your oar) is not in the list. Luha             M/M and now, to add to this story,  we have late-breaking news- A  complete list of acts which Spill wishes to ban follows:  THE CANONICAL LIST OF EUPHEMISMS FOR MALE MASTURBATION:        1. Arm-wrestle with your one-eyed vessel        2. Attack the one-eyed purple-headed warrior        3. Audition the finger puppets        4. Audition your hand puppet        5. Backstroke roulette        6. Bash the candle        7. Battle with the Purple Helmeted Warrior of Love        8. Be your own best friend        9. Beat off       10. Beat the Bishop       11. Beat the bologna       12. Beat the dummy       13. Beat the meat       14. Beat the pud       15. Beat the stick       16. Beat up your date       17. Beef tips stroking off       18. Bleed the weed       19. Blow your load       20. Blow your own horn       21. Bludgeon the beefsteak       22. Bop the bologna       23. Bop the bonzo       24. Box the Jesuit       25. Box with Richard       26. Buff the banana       27. Bugger your hand       28. Burp the baby       29. Burp the worm       30. Butter the corn       31. Caning the vandal       32. Charm the snake       33. Check for testicular cancer       34. Cheese off       35. Choke Kojak       36. Choke the chicken       37. Choke the sheriff and wait for the posse to come       38. Clamp the pipe       39. Clean your rifle       40. Clear the snorkel       41. Climb the tree       42. Closet Frisbee       43. Come into your own       44. Cook the cream of cock       45. Corral your tadpole       46. Couch hockey for one       47. Crank the love pump       48. Crank the shank       49. Crimp the wire       50. Crown the king       51. Cuddle the kielbasa       52. Cuff the carrot       53. Daisy-chaining       54. Date Miss Michigan       55. Date Mrs. Palmer and Her five daughters       56. Date Rosie Palm and her five sisters       57. Defrosting the fridge       58. Diddle       59. Digital penile oscillation       60. Do It Your Way       61. Do handiwork       62. Do the White Knuckler       63. Do the janitor thing       64. Drain the monster       65. Dry humping the ottoman       66. Electing the President       67. Engage in safe sex       68. Exercise one’s right       69. Feed the ducks       70. Fiddle the flesh flute       71. Fist fuck       72. Fist your mister       73. Five knuckle shuffle       74. Five-knuckle-shuffle on the old piss pump       75. Flick your Bic       76. Fling your phallus       77. Flip the Bishop       78. Flog the Bishop       79. Flog the dog       80. Flog the dolphin       81. Flog the dong       82. Flog the hog       83. Flog the log       84. Flog the mule       85. Fly fishing       86. Fondle your flagpole       87. Free Willy       88. Friggit       89. Frost the pastries       90. Gallop the antelope       91. Gallop the old lizard       92. Genital stimulation via phallengetic motion       93. Get a date with Slick Mittens       94. Get chafed       95. Get off       96. Get the German soldier marching       97. Get to know yourself       98. Get your pole varnished       99. Give it a tug      100. Give your low five      101. Go a couple of rounds with ol’ Josh      102. Go blind      103. Go on a date with Fisty Palmer      104. Go on a date with Handrea and Palmela      105. Go the blow      106. Goose the gherkin      107. Grease the pipe      108. Hack the hog      109. Hand job      110. Hand shandy      111. Hard labor      112. Have one off the wrist      113. Hitchhike to heaven      114. Hitchhike underneath the big top      115. Hold the Bishop      116. Hold the sausage hostage      117. Hone the cone      118. Honk your horn      119. Hug the hog      120. Human version of AUTOEXEC.BAT      121. Hump your hose      122. Jack hammer      123. Jack off      124. Jazz yourself      125. Jerk      126. Jerk Jamby      127. Jerk it      128. Jerk off      129. Jerk the gherkin      130. Jizzlob      131. JocelynEldering      132. Kick your roommate out for five to ten minutes to "call your parents"      133. Look for ticks      134. Lope the mule      135. Love the muppet      136. Love’s labors lost      137. Make a foreskin cone      138. Make instant pudding      139. Make the bald man puke      140. Making soup      141. Mangle the midget      142. Manipulate the mango      143. Manual labor      144. Manual override      145. Master Bacon, meet Rosie Hancock      146. Meat with Mother Thumb and her four daughters      147. Milk the Lizard      148. Milk the cow      149. Milk the moose      150. Milk the self      151. Milking the lizard      152. Mount a corporal and four      153. Much goo about nothing      154. Nerk your throbber      155. Null the void      156. Oil the glove      157. Onan’s olympics      158. One gun salute      159. One man band      160. One-night-stand with yourself      161. Pack your palm      162. Paddle the pickle      163. Paint the ceiling      164. Paint the pickle      165. Palm the calm      166. Peel some chilis      167. Peel the banana      168. Perform diagnostics on your ManTool      169. Pet the lizard      170. Pip the pumpkin      171. Play Uno      172. Play a little five-on-one      173. Play a one stringed guitar      174. Play five against one      175. Play in a one-man show      176. Play peek-a-boo      177. Play pocket pinball      178. Play pocket pool      179. Play tag with the pink torpedo      180. Play the skin flute      181. Play tug-o-war with Cyclops      182. Play with your turtle (for uncircumcised guys)      183. Playing the one-stringed melody      184. Please your pisser      185. Plunk your twanger      186. Polish Percy in your palm      187. Polish the Rocket      188. Polish the family jewels      189. Polish the helmet      190. Polish the rock-hard staff of St. Peter      191. Polish the rocket      192. Polish the sword      193. Pound off      194. Pound the bald-headed moose      195. Pound the pud      196. Pound your flounder      197. Pound your pud      198. Prepare the carrot      199. Prime the pump      200. Pull off      201. Pull rank      202. Pull the bologna pony      203. Pull the carrot      204. Pull the cord      205. Pull the goalie      206. Pull the pole      207. Pull the Pope      208. Pull the pud      209. Pull your own leg      210. Pull your prick      211. Pull your taffy      212. Pump the python      213. Pump the stump      214. Punch the clown      215. Punch the munchkin      216. Punish Percy in your palm      217. Ram the ham      218. Relieve tension      219. Ride the great white knuckler      220. Roll your own      221. Romeo and Himself      222. Rope the pony      223. Rope the Pope      224. Rub off      225. Rub one out      226. Rub the pink eraser      227. Run off a batch by hand      228. Sacrifice sperm to the god of lonely nights      229. Safest sex      230. Sand wood      231. Scour the tower of power      232. Scratch the itch      233. Secret handshake      234. Self abuse      235. Self-induced penile regurgitation      236. Sex with someone you really love      237. Shag      238. Shake hands with Abe Lincoln      239. Shake hands with Yul Brynner      240. Shake hands with the midget      241. Shake hands with the unemployed      242. Shake hands with your John Thomas      243. Shake hands with your wife’s best friend      244. Shake the sauce      245. Shake the sausage      246. Shake the snake      247. Shaling the snake      248. Shellac the shillelagh      249. Shemp the hog      250. Shift gears      251. Shine the helmet      252. Shine your pole      253. Shoot for the moon      254. Shoot putty at the moon      255. Shoot the airplane      256. Shuck your corn      257. Slakin’ the bacon      258. Slam the ham      259. Slam the salami      260. Slam the salmon      261. Slam the spam      262. Slap high fives with Yul Brynner      263. Slap it      264. Slap pappy      265. Slap the carrot      266. Slap the clown      267. Slap the donkey      268. Slap the pud      269. Slap the purple headed yogurt pistol      270. Slap the salami      271. Sling the jelly      272. Smack off      273. Smack the salami      274. Snap the monkey      275. Snap the rubber      276. Snap the whip      277. Solo flight      278. Solo marathon      279. Solo sex      280. Spank Frank (or Elvis)      281. Spank the Bishop      282. Spank the frank      283. Spank the monkey      284. Spank the salami      285. Spank the wank      286. Squeeze the cheese      287. Squeeze the juice      288. Squeeze the toothpaste in the middle of the tube      289. Squeeze your cheese-dog      290. Stinky pinky      291. Stir the batter      292. Stir the yogurt

… read more »

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (top-posting) This has to be shared with some other newsgroups… GROUP WANTS TO BAN MASTURBATION BY YOSSARIAN KHAN THE FAUX NEWS SERVICE www.ftpg.net WASHINGTON — John Spankitt, president of the Sperm Is Life League (SPILL) today announced a campaign to outlaw masturbation. … [snip] Several reporters attempted to ask Spankitt if he had ever engaged in masturbation himself, at which time he declared the press conference closed and rushed from the room with the aid of his guide dog.             M/M and now, to add to this story,  we have late-breaking news- A  complete list of acts which Spill wishes to ban follows:  THE CANONICAL LIST OF EUPHEMISMS FOR MALE MASTURBATION:        1. Arm-wrestle with your one-eyed vessel        2. Attack the one-eyed purple-headed warrior

[snip] As they say in the Navy; it’s my dick and my soap and I’ll wash it as fast as I want to. — David J. Vorous Yosemite Llama Ranch http://www.TheLlamaRanch.com UDP for WebTV

Response:

(top-posting)

[snipped] Also top-posting:  my favorite (stroke your oar) is not in the list. Luha – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –             M/M and now, to add to this story,  we have late-breaking news- A  complete list of acts which Spill wishes to ban follows:  THE CANONICAL LIST OF EUPHEMISMS FOR MALE MASTURBATION:        1. Arm-wrestle with your one-eyed vessel        2. Attack the one-eyed purple-headed warrior        3. Audition the finger puppets        4. Audition your hand puppet        5. Backstroke roulette        6. Bash the candle        7. Battle with the Purple Helmeted Warrior of Love        8. Be your own best friend        9. Beat off       10. Beat the Bishop       11. Beat the bologna       12. Beat the dummy       13. Beat the meat       14. Beat the pud       15. Beat the stick       16. Beat up your date       17. Beef tips stroking off       18. Bleed the weed       19. Blow your load       20. Blow your own horn       21. Bludgeon the beefsteak       22. Bop the bologna       23. Bop the bonzo       24. Box the Jesuit       25. Box with Richard       26. Buff the banana       27. Bugger your hand       28. Burp the baby       29. Burp the worm       30. Butter the corn       31. Caning the vandal       32. Charm the snake       33. Check for testicular cancer       34. Cheese off       35. Choke Kojak       36. Choke the chicken       37. Choke the sheriff and wait for the posse to come       38. Clamp the pipe       39. Clean your rifle       40. Clear the snorkel       41. Climb the tree       42. Closet Frisbee       43. Come into your own       44. Cook the cream of cock       45. Corral your tadpole       46. Couch hockey for one       47. Crank the love pump       48. Crank the shank       49. Crimp the wire       50. Crown the king       51. Cuddle the kielbasa       52. Cuff the carrot       53. Daisy-chaining       54. Date Miss Michigan       55. Date Mrs. Palmer and Her five daughters       56. Date Rosie Palm and her five sisters       57. Defrosting the fridge       58. Diddle       59. Digital penile oscillation       60. Do It Your Way       61. Do handiwork       62. Do the White Knuckler       63. Do the janitor thing       64. Drain the monster       65. Dry humping the ottoman       66. Electing the President       67. Engage in safe sex       68. Exercise one’s right       69. Feed the ducks       70. Fiddle the flesh flute       71. Fist fuck       72. Fist your mister       73. Five knuckle shuffle       74. Five-knuckle-shuffle on the old piss pump       75. Flick your Bic       76. Fling your phallus       77. Flip the Bishop       78. Flog the Bishop       79. Flog the dog       80. Flog the dolphin       81. Flog the dong       82. Flog the hog       83. Flog the log       84. Flog the mule       85. Fly fishing       86. Fondle your flagpole       87. Free Willy       88. Friggit       89. Frost the pastries       90. Gallop the antelope       91. Gallop the old lizard       92. Genital stimulation via phallengetic motion       93. Get a date with Slick Mittens       94. Get chafed       95. Get off       96. Get the German soldier marching       97. Get to know yourself       98. Get your pole varnished       99. Give it a tug      100. Give your low five      101. Go a couple of rounds with ol’ Josh      102. Go blind      103. Go on a date with Fisty Palmer      104. Go on a date with Handrea and Palmela      105. Go the blow      106. Goose the gherkin      107. Grease the pipe      108. Hack the hog      109. Hand job      110. Hand shandy      111. Hard labor      112. Have one off the wrist      113. Hitchhike to heaven      114. Hitchhike underneath the big top      115. Hold the Bishop      116. Hold the sausage hostage      117. Hone the cone      118. Honk your horn      119. Hug the hog      120. Human version of AUTOEXEC.BAT      121. Hump your hose      122. Jack hammer      123. Jack off      124. Jazz yourself      125. Jerk      126. Jerk Jamby      127. Jerk it      128. Jerk off      129. Jerk the gherkin      130. Jizzlob      131. JocelynEldering      132. Kick your roommate out for five to ten minutes to "call your parents"      133. Look for ticks      134. Lope the mule      135. Love the muppet      136. Love’s labors lost      137. Make a foreskin cone      138. Make instant pudding      139. Make the bald man puke      140. Making soup      141. Mangle the midget      142. Manipulate the mango      143. Manual labor      144. Manual override      145. Master Bacon, meet Rosie Hancock      146. Meat with Mother Thumb and her four daughters      147. Milk the Lizard      148. Milk the cow      149. Milk the moose      150. Milk the self      151. Milking the lizard      152. Mount a corporal and four      153. Much goo about nothing      154. Nerk your throbber      155. Null the void      156. Oil the glove      157. Onan’s olympics      158. One gun salute      159. One man band      160. One-night-stand with yourself      161. Pack your palm      162. Paddle the pickle      163. Paint the ceiling      164. Paint the pickle      165. Palm the calm      166. Peel some chilis      167. Peel the banana      168. Perform diagnostics on your ManTool      169. Pet the lizard      170. Pip the pumpkin      171. Play Uno      172. Play a little five-on-one      173. Play a one stringed guitar      174. Play five against one      175. Play in a one-man show      176. Play peek-a-boo      177. Play pocket pinball      178. Play pocket pool      179. Play tag with the pink torpedo      180. Play the skin flute      181. Play tug-o-war with Cyclops      182. Play with your turtle (for uncircumcised guys)      183. Playing the one-stringed melody      184. Please your pisser      185. Plunk your twanger      186. Polish Percy in your palm      187. Polish the Rocket      188. Polish the family jewels      189. Polish the helmet      190. Polish the rock-hard staff of St. Peter      191. Polish the rocket      192. Polish the sword      193. Pound off      194. Pound the bald-headed moose      195. Pound the pud      196. Pound your flounder      197. Pound your pud      198. Prepare the carrot      199. Prime the pump      200. Pull off      201. Pull rank      202. Pull the bologna pony      203. Pull the carrot      204. Pull the cord      205. Pull the goalie      206. Pull the pole      207. Pull the Pope      208. Pull the pud      209. Pull your own leg      210. Pull your prick      211. Pull your taffy      212. Pump the python      213. Pump the stump      214. Punch the clown      215. Punch the munchkin      216. Punish Percy in your palm      217. Ram the ham      218. Relieve tension      219. Ride the great white knuckler      220. Roll your own      221. Romeo and Himself      222. Rope the pony      223. Rope the Pope      224. Rub off      225. Rub one out      226. Rub the pink eraser      227. Run off a batch by hand      228. Sacrifice sperm to the god of lonely nights      229. Safest sex      230. Sand wood      231. Scour the tower of power      232. Scratch the itch      233. Secret handshake      234. Self abuse      235. Self-induced penile regurgitation      236. Sex with someone you really love      237. Shag      238. Shake hands with Abe Lincoln      239. Shake hands with Yul Brynner      240. Shake hands with the midget      241. Shake hands with the unemployed      242. Shake hands with your John Thomas      243. Shake hands with your wife’s best friend      244. Shake the sauce      245. Shake the sausage      246. Shake the snake      247. Shaling the snake      248. Shellac the shillelagh      249. Shemp the hog      250. Shift gears      251. Shine the helmet      252. Shine your pole      253. Shoot for the moon      254. Shoot putty at the moon      255. Shoot the airplane      256. Shuck your corn      257. Slakin’ the bacon      258. Slam the ham      259. Slam the salami      260. Slam the salmon      261. Slam the spam      262. Slap high fives with Yul Brynner      263. Slap it      264. Slap pappy      265. Slap the carrot      266. Slap the clown      267. Slap the donkey      268. Slap the pud      269. Slap the purple headed yogurt pistol      270. Slap the salami      271. Sling the jelly      272. Smack off      273. Smack the salami      274. Snap the monkey      275. Snap the rubber      276. Snap the whip      277. Solo flight      278. Solo marathon      279. Solo sex      280. Spank Frank (or Elvis)      281. Spank the Bishop      282. Spank the frank      283. Spank the monkey      284. Spank the salami      285. Spank the wank      286. Squeeze the cheese      287. Squeeze the juice      288. Squeeze the toothpaste in the middle of the tube      289. Squeeze your cheese-dog      290. Stinky pinky      291. Stir the batter      292. Stir the yogurt      293. Strain the main vein      294. Stroke it      295. Stroke off      296. Stroke the carrot      297. Stroke the dog      298. Stroke the mole      299. Stroke the one-eyed burping gecko      300. Stroke the satin-headed serpent      301. Stroke your poker      302. Stroke your twinkie      303. Strumming the one string harp      304. Take matters into your own hands      305. Take part in population control

… read more »

Response:

(top-posting) This has to be shared with some other newsgroups… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – GROUP WANTS TO BAN MASTURBATION BY YOSSARIAN KHAN THE FAUX NEWS SERVICE www.ftpg.net WASHINGTON — John Spankitt, president of the Sperm Is Life League (SPILL) today announced a campaign to outlaw masturbation. Within the month, according to Spankitt, SPILL plans to lobby President Bush, members of Congress, and state governors to introduce legislation criminalizing male self-gratification. "Men who masturbate quite clearly are murdering a potential life." Spankitt said. "Each teaspoonful of ejaculate carries millions of sperm, a single one of which can bring life. I think it’s pretty obvious that masturbators are killers." Mr. Spankitt said that details of detection and prosecution had yet to be addressed, but he was confident that answers would be coming soon. "President Bush and Congressional leaders on both sides of the aisle have expressed interest in our issue. They think it’s important to take a stand for life. It’s about morality." When questioned about possible sanctions, Spankitt referred to the Bible. "We’re debating that right now. Matthew 5:30 says ‘If thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee . . .’ We think that’s a good start for first offenders. Amputation and education–those are key." SPILL plans to organize nationwide "SPILL Circles" in which men may come together for help with their compulsion. "Second offenders would have to be dealt with more severely," Spankitt continued. "As Genesis 38:9-10 says ‘. . . he went in unto his brother’s wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother. And the thing which he did displeased the Lord; wherefore he slew him also.’ You can draw your own conclusions." Several reporters attempted to ask Spankitt if he had ever engaged in masturbation himself, at which time he declared the press conference closed and rushed from the room with the aid of his guide dog.

            M/M and now, to add to this story,  we have late-breaking news- A  complete list of acts which Spill wishes to ban follows:  THE CANONICAL LIST OF EUPHEMISMS FOR MALE MASTURBATION:        1. Arm-wrestle with your one-eyed vessel        2. Attack the one-eyed purple-headed warrior        3. Audition the finger puppets        4. Audition your hand puppet        5. Backstroke roulette        6. Bash the candle        7. Battle with the Purple Helmeted Warrior of Love        8. Be your own best friend        9. Beat off       10. Beat the Bishop       11. Beat the bologna       12. Beat the dummy       13. Beat the meat       14. Beat the pud       15. Beat the stick       16. Beat up your date       17. Beef tips stroking off       18. Bleed the weed       19. Blow your load       20. Blow your own horn       21. Bludgeon the beefsteak       22. Bop the bologna       23. Bop the bonzo       24. Box the Jesuit       25. Box with Richard       26. Buff the banana       27. Bugger your hand       28. Burp the baby       29. Burp the worm       30. Butter the corn       31. Caning the vandal       32. Charm the snake       33. Check for testicular cancer       34. Cheese off       35. Choke Kojak       36. Choke the chicken       37. Choke the sheriff and wait for the posse to come       38. Clamp the pipe       39. Clean your rifle       40. Clear the snorkel       41. Climb the tree       42. Closet Frisbee       43. Come into your own       44. Cook the cream of cock       45. Corral your tadpole       46. Couch hockey for one       47. Crank the love pump       48. Crank the shank       49. Crimp the wire       50. Crown the king       51. Cuddle the kielbasa       52. Cuff the carrot       53. Daisy-chaining       54. Date Miss Michigan       55. Date Mrs. Palmer and Her five daughters       56. Date Rosie Palm and her five sisters       57. Defrosting the fridge       58. Diddle       59. Digital penile oscillation       60. Do It Your Way       61. Do handiwork       62. Do the White Knuckler       63. Do the janitor thing       64. Drain the monster       65. Dry humping the ottoman       66. Electing the President       67. Engage in safe sex       68. Exercise one’s right       69. Feed the ducks       70. Fiddle the flesh flute       71. Fist fuck       72. Fist your mister       73. Five knuckle shuffle       74. Five-knuckle-shuffle on the old piss pump       75. Flick your Bic       76. Fling your phallus       77. Flip the Bishop       78. Flog the Bishop       79. Flog the dog       80. Flog the dolphin       81. Flog the dong       82. Flog the hog       83. Flog the log       84. Flog the mule       85. Fly fishing       86. Fondle your flagpole       87. Free Willy       88. Friggit       89. Frost the pastries       90. Gallop the antelope       91. Gallop the old lizard       92. Genital stimulation via phallengetic motion       93. Get a date with Slick Mittens       94. Get chafed       95. Get off       96. Get the German soldier marching       97. Get to know yourself       98. Get your pole varnished       99. Give it a tug      100. Give your low five      101. Go a couple of rounds with ol’ Josh      102. Go blind      103. Go on a date with Fisty Palmer      104. Go on a date with Handrea and Palmela      105. Go the blow      106. Goose the gherkin      107. Grease the pipe      108. Hack the hog      109. Hand job      110. Hand shandy      111. Hard labor      112. Have one off the wrist      113. Hitchhike to heaven      114. Hitchhike underneath the big top      115. Hold the Bishop      116. Hold the sausage hostage      117. Hone the cone      118. Honk your horn      119. Hug the hog      120. Human version of AUTOEXEC.BAT      121. Hump your hose      122. Jack hammer      123. Jack off      124. Jazz yourself      125. Jerk      126. Jerk Jamby      127. Jerk it      128. Jerk off      129. Jerk the gherkin      130. Jizzlob      131. JocelynEldering      132. Kick your roommate out for five to ten minutes to "call your parents"      133. Look for ticks      134. Lope the mule      135. Love the muppet      136. Love’s labors lost      137. Make a foreskin cone      138. Make instant pudding      139. Make the bald man puke      140. Making soup      141. Mangle the midget      142. Manipulate the mango      143. Manual labor      144. Manual override      145. Master Bacon, meet Rosie Hancock      146. Meat with Mother Thumb and her four daughters      147. Milk the Lizard      148. Milk the cow      149. Milk the moose      150. Milk the self      151. Milking the lizard      152. Mount a corporal and four      153. Much goo about nothing      154. Nerk your throbber      155. Null the void      156. Oil the glove      157. Onan’s olympics      158. One gun salute      159. One man band      160. One-night-stand with yourself      161. Pack your palm      162. Paddle the pickle      163. Paint the ceiling      164. Paint the pickle      165. Palm the calm      166. Peel some chilis      167. Peel the banana      168. Perform diagnostics on your ManTool      169. Pet the lizard      170. Pip the pumpkin      171. Play Uno      172. Play a little five-on-one      173. Play a one stringed guitar      174. Play five against one      175. Play in a one-man show      176. Play peek-a-boo      177. Play pocket pinball      178. Play pocket pool      179. Play tag with the pink torpedo      180. Play the skin flute      181. Play tug-o-war with Cyclops      182. Play with your turtle (for uncircumcised guys)      183. Playing the one-stringed melody      184. Please your pisser      185. Plunk your twanger      186. Polish Percy in your palm      187. Polish the Rocket      188. Polish the family jewels      189. Polish the helmet      190. Polish the rock-hard staff of St. Peter      191. Polish the rocket      192. Polish the sword      193. Pound off      194. Pound the bald-headed moose      195. Pound the pud      196. Pound your flounder      197. Pound your pud      198. Prepare the carrot      199. Prime the pump      200. Pull off      201. Pull rank      202. Pull the bologna pony      203. Pull the carrot      204. Pull the cord      205. Pull the goalie      206. Pull the pole      207. Pull the Pope      208. Pull the pud      209. Pull your own leg      210. Pull your prick      211. Pull your taffy      212. Pump the python      213. Pump the stump      214. Punch the clown      215. Punch the munchkin      216. Punish Percy in your palm      217. Ram the ham      218. Relieve tension      219. Ride the great white knuckler      220. Roll your own      221. Romeo and Himself      222. Rope the pony      223. Rope the Pope      224. Rub off      225. Rub one out      226. Rub the pink eraser      227. Run off a batch by hand      228. Sacrifice sperm to the god of lonely nights      229. Safest sex      230. Sand wood      231. Scour the tower of power      232. Scratch the itch      233. Secret handshake      234. Self abuse      235. Self-induced penile regurgitation      236. Sex with someone you really love      237. Shag      238. Shake hands with Abe Lincoln      239. Shake hands with Yul Brynner      240. Shake hands with the midget      241. Shake hands with the unemployed      242. Shake hands with your John Thomas      243. Shake hands with your wife’s best friend      244. Shake the sauce      245. Shake the sausage      246. Shake the snake      247. Shaling the snake      248. Shellac the shillelagh      249. Shemp the hog      250. Shift gears      251. Shine the helmet      252. Shine your pole      253. Shoot for the moon      254. Shoot putty at the moon      255. Shoot the airplane      256. Shuck your corn      257. Slakin’ the bacon      258. Slam the ham      259. Slam the salami      260. Slam the salmon      261. Slam the spam      262. Slap high fives with Yul

… read more »

Response:

Question:

 When Bob Skinner learned he lives along the route I drove, and at the halfway point, he opened up his home to me and the lovely massuese.         did i get that right; did you say you and "…the lovely massues"?  the hell with all that other bullshit–let’s hear about *that*! wayno, goin for the jugular

  Great, Charlie.  You let the cat out of the bag.  Now, the eastern clavers will want you to spill the beans. I fear that the bottom will then drop out of the goat market, hurting a lot of the local farmers:( Bob Skinner — —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

Ok, so you attended the Western Conclave. You’re tired, you’re hungry, and you don’t have the time to post a week-long trip report… So how’s about you answer this little survey in the meantime? Most of the questions can be answered in a few words. It’ll only take a minute 1. What days were you there?

Got there friday night, airlifted out on Monday afternoon. 2. Who did you fish with?

Dan’l, Darin, Warren, the Hightowers, Bob Card and Willi. Planned to fish w/ KenF but arteries got in the way. 3. Where did you fish?

Fished once right next to camp, 2 smalls, one decent, all Browns. Second day fished up river a bit at burnt tree hole (?). Caught a few small browns. Third day fished braided channals south of town. Caught a lot of smaller browns. 4. What water was most productive for you? Loved the braided channels. Want to fish it again. 5. What was your favorite fly? I was using stimulators mostly, but I should

have used more . . . nymphs 6. What was your most memorable fish? 7. Did HWMNBN make a public appearance? Huh? 8. Did Ken and Vern get along? ? 9. What did you win at the raffle? A 3 weight line, 10. Where were you when Snedeker had the heart attack? Actually I was right

there. See that sucker was w/ Dan at the jiffy shop and Dan’l, whose offer of an aspirin had been earlier accepted, suggested Sned visit the clinic just for the hell of it. The countergirl said it was down the street, he went and, voila, started a whole chain of events that  . . . hold it. Sned IS ME! Yeah. I lived. At least so far. Ended up at Deaconess/Billings, great cardiac center, next am they found blockages and inserted 2 stints. Ill say more about these very interesting bits of stainless mesh some other time. Bob Skinner, is a great guy. He drove all the way to Billings and back to get my wife Bonnie to my van in Ennis. I will be forever greatful for that quiet kindness. 11. If you had it to do over again, what would you do differently? Quit

smoking 20 years ago and learned to hate eggs. 12. Which ROFFian was the MOST like you thought they’d be? All of em. No surprises really. 13. Which ROFFian was the LEAST like you thought they’d be? see above. Bonus questions (only one person need answer): (a) who won the bamboo rod and the Connor rod? (b) Is Snedeker going to be OK? Well so far. I was

lucky it happened when and where it did. I got the best care you can , I figured I was already dead so nothing hurt too much, and I got a pocket full of nitro in case I need it. Turns out I was having a rolling heart attack for about a month and kept telling myself it was musle strain, although I hear that Warren thinks it was his rap music that triggered the attack. No way Warren, although on second thought if it will  . . . .  And I survived so far.  Ive had a great life, and Im one dam lucky person. Getting tired and will post more some other time. Thanx for all the great wishes Snedeker – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

  You got that right Wayno. I took my girlfriend, who is a professional masseuse (strictly legit, sore muscles etc). Just what the doctor ordered after a hard day on the water; she also cooks and keeps a pretty tidy camp. The only drawback to having her along was that I seldom arose before 9:00 AM.

ahhhh, this post Charlie, in it’s simple innocence, is at this time causing wayno to tear what few reamining hairs he has out of his head. waldo

Response:

Walt Its even worse. The lady is classy, great lookin, has a sense of humor and fishes. Kinda like many of the other classy ladies of the West. To whom I dedicate this couplet: Yeah, and, and, and . . . she’s really cool. Grows her own, No pixy and looks grrrreat in the sun. Has a homeplace between John Day and Maupin, but mostly she’s keepen the old Beaver flying and in gas. Prefers older guys, dresses mostly out of REI, and little Sundance. Ties down to a 22. Somewhere West of Cheyenne Send er round Dave Snedeker – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   You got that right Wayno. I took my girlfriend, who is a professional masseuse (strictly legit, sore muscles etc). Just what the doctor ordered after a hard day on the water; she also cooks and keeps a pretty tidy camp. The only drawback to having her along was that I seldom arose before 9:00 AM. ahhhh, this post Charlie, in it’s simple innocence, is at this time causing wayno to tear what few reamining hairs he has out of his head. waldo

Response:

Ok, so you attended the Western Conclave. You’re tired, you’re hungry, and you don’t have the time to post a week-long trip report… So how’s about you answer this little survey in the meantime? Most of the questions can be answered in a few words. It’ll only take a minute 1. What days were you there?

I arrived on Fri. night the 21st and left on Sat morn the 29th. 2. Who did you fish with? Everyone who showed up except Ken, which I wish I could have. 3. Where did you fish? The Madison and Ruby rivers, Jack and Indian cricks, and two high altitude lakes with Steve (RW) which will remain nameless. 4. What water was most productive for you?

Probably the second lake Steve and I rode up to. We caught at least 2 doz. apiece in just a couple of hours. 5. What was your favorite fly?

Elk hair caddis, although this is not what I caught most of my fish on. 6. What was your most memorable fish?

The 20" cutthroat that I caught out of the first lake Steve and I rode to. 7. Did HWMNBN make a public appearance?

Nope, but I know where he was on Thursday, and I ain’t tellin. 8. Did Ken and Vern get along?

They appeared to. 9. What did you win at the raffle?

I won Michael Erana’s furled leaders and Forty’s book "Trout Stream Insects" 10. Where were you when Snedeker had the heart attack?

Fishing. 11. If you had it to do over again, what would you do differently?

I can’t think of a single thing. 12. Which ROFFian was the MOST like you thought they’d be?

To be honest, Ken Fortenberry. I can’t really explain why either. 13. Which ROFFian was the LEAST like you thought they’d be?

Steve. Sorry Steve, but it’s true, I thought you’d be more a serious type of guy. I was definitely wrong. Bonus questions (only one person need answer): (a) who won the bamboo rod and the Connor rod? (b) Is Snedeker going to be OK?

A) Vern won the cane rod and I’m cryin fix cause it was the first item up and his was the first name drawn. FIX! FIX! Just kidding Vern, you did a good, fair job with the raffle. Danl won the Conner rod, that lucky son of a bitch. I can say that cause it’s going to be a couple more weeks before he gets to a computer. B) Dave S. is going to be fine. Darin

Response:

Hello Peter Thanx for the good wishes. Im alive and kicking. Need a few weeks to figure this deal out. See whats included and whats not. Im just resting and glad to be alive. Take care Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [snip] Well so far. I was lucky it happened when and where it did. I got the best care you can , I figured I was already dead so nothing hurt too much, and I got a pocket full of nitro in case I need it. Turns out I was having a rolling heart attack for about a month and kept telling myself it was musle strain, although I hear that Warren thinks it was his rap music that triggered the attack. No way Warren, although on second thought if it will  . . . .  And I survived so far.  Ive had a great life, and Im one dam lucky person. Getting tired and will post more some other time. Thanx for all the great wishes Snedeker This is starting to be an unpleasant trend. Take care and enjoy the opportunity to relax.  and follow the doctors orders, eh! Peter

Response:

did i get that right; did you say you and "…the lovely massues"?  the hell with all that other bullshit–let’s hear about *that*! wayno, goin for the jugular

  You got that right Wayno. I took my girlfriend, who is a professional masseuse (strictly legit, sore muscles etc). Just what the doctor ordered after a hard day on the water; she also cooks and keeps a pretty tidy camp. The only drawback to having her along was that I seldom arose before 9:00 AM.

Response:

Nice to hear from you personally David. Glad to hear you survived the ordeal.  Take your time and do some gentle fishing. Best wishes, regards, and tight lines! Mike Connor — "In order to know what is possible one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

Response:

[snip] – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well so far. I was lucky it happened when and where it did. I got the best care you can , I figured I was already dead so nothing hurt too much, and I got a pocket full of nitro in case I need it. Turns out I was having a rolling heart attack for about a month and kept telling myself it was musle strain, although I hear that Warren thinks it was his rap music that triggered the attack. No way Warren, although on second thought if it will  . . . .  And I survived so far.  Ive had a great life, and Im one dam lucky person. Getting tired and will post more some other time. Thanx for all the great wishes Snedeker

This is starting to be an unpleasant trend. Take care and enjoy the opportunity to relax.  and follow the doctors orders, eh! Peter

Response:

David Snedeker writes:

(nice stuff snipped) And I survived so far.  Ive had a great life, and Im one dam lucky person. Getting tired and will post more some other time. Thanx for all the great wishes Snedeker

Good for you, David.  Wish I could have been there with you.  Get well.. Dave LaCourse

Response:

"David Snedeker" wrote 11. If you had it to do over again, what would you do differently? Quit smoking 20 years ago and learn to hate eggs.

Dave,    Glad you made it.  There is no time like the present to quit smoking and eating those high cholesterol and fatty foods.  It seems like all the things you like to eat are bad for you.  You can set an example for all the 200+ pounders on ROFF. Ernie

Response:

Ok, so you attended the Western Conclave. You’re tired,…

Very you’re hungry,…

Very and you don’t have the time to post a week-long trip report

Very (???) 1. What days were you there?

Sat-Sat 2. Who did you fish with?

Bruce Bruiser Hopper, Warren, Willi Tight Line Loehman, and a bit with Ken, Bob Skinner and Ol’ Dan the Man Finn.  Have pics, will post. 3. Where did you fish?

Mostly the Madison (so much water!), but also Ruby, Beaver Head (huh huh), West Fork Madison, and a tiny private spring creek I got access to by being nice. 4. What water was most productive for you?

I netted big fish on the Beaver Head (:-) more later), but seriously, the Madison, most consistently below Ennis Lake. 5. What was your favorite fly?

Black Stonefly nymph, partly because all the fly shops said they wouldn’t work (I went in one shop and the bins with the size and style I wanted were empty, so I asked if they had more of em.  The guy said that he had in stock anything that I would want to use.)  I finally found what I was looking for at the True Value hardware store and went out and killed ‘em that day! 6. What was your most memorable fish?

First 2 are equal.  The very first fish I caught was a 17" brown from a spot that I worked *hard* to wade to, then it took off dowstream in heavy current. Then I had to work hard to wade *out*, this time fighting a fish, so I could get to a place I could net it. The second was a rising fish I saw in a quiet little braid in "the Channels". I cast and switched flies, and cast and switched angles, and switched flies and cast some more until I finally caught it.  Turned out to be an 8" brown, but still a great catch since I was so determned to get it. 7. Did HWMNBN make a public appearance?

Nope. 8. Did Ken and Vern get along?

Never talked AFAIK. 9. What did you win at the raffle?

Nothing!  They held it earlier than they said and I wasn’t back yet!  I gave my prize away.  Dang, I wanted a shot at that 8 ft 2 wt. 10. Where were you when Snedeker had the heart attack?

Telling him the size of the fish I just caught.  Sorry that was in bad taste – I’m joking only because I know he’s fine.  Enjoyed meeting Dave, had a nice chat with him about the fishing on the first day. 11. If you had it to do over again, what would you do differently?

Fish longer hours right from the start!  So much water! 12. Which ROFFian was the MOST like you thought they’d be? 13. Which ROFFian was the LEAST like you thought they’d be?

I honestly didn’t have any preconceived notions.  Sorry, boring answer.  Fun people though. Regards, Jeff

Response:

<snip Snedeker

Congratulations on making it back to the computer.  Glad to year you’re all right.  Best of luck and a speedy recovery. — Levi "So long, and thanks for all the fish."

Response:

   Glad you made it.  There is no time like the present to quit smoking and eating those high cholesterol and fatty foods.  It seems like all the things you like to eat are bad for you.  You can set an example for all the 200+ pounders on ROFF.

Ok, that does it!! Welcome to the new me. –Steve    2025

Response:

…Thanx for the good wishes. Im alive and kicking. Need a few weeks to figure this deal out. See whats included and whats not. Im just resting and glad to be alive.

Sad news about your trouble Dave.  Good news about your survival.  I join the rest in best wishes for a full and speedy recovery.  A word of advice: don’t do that heart attack shit again; it ain’t good for you (let’s just see if we can get an argument about THAT!) Wolfgang

Response:

   Glad you made it.  There is no time like the present to quit smoking and eating those high cholesterol and fatty foods.  It seems like all the things you like to eat are bad for you.  You can set an example for all the 200+ pounders on ROFF. Ok, that does it!! Welcome to the new me. –Steve    2025

"2025"? Yikes – that’s even more than three Marlon Brandos!

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –    Glad you made it.  There is no time like the present to quit smoking and eating those high cholesterol and fatty foods.  It seems like all the things you like to eat are bad for you.  You can set an example for all the 200+ pounders on ROFF. Ok, that does it!! Welcome to the new me. –Steve    2025 "2025"? Yikes – that’s even more than three Marlon Brandos!

WOW!  2 Kilobrandos! or is that 20 Hectomarlons? R

Response:

WOW!  2 Kilobrandos!

Apocalypse Now? — Charlie…

Response:

1. What days were you there?

Arrived Sunday afternoon, left Thursday morning. 2. Who did you fish with?

Willi, Dan’l, Steve, Warren, Bob, JeffC. 3. Where did you fish?

Ruby, Madison, a lake I can’t name for fear of death & dismemberment by Warren and likewise a section of river I can’t name if I ever want to have Robin Cunningham guide me again. 4. What water was most productive for you?

The guided trip on Tuesday. 5. What was your favorite fly?

Elk hair caddis was most productive but I caught my biggest fish on a hopper. 6. What was your most memorable fish?

A whitefish on the Ruby, my first ever. 7. Did HWMNBN make a public appearance?

Nah, he hid behind Mary Dorsey’s skirts. 8. Did Ken and Vern get along?

Famously. Vern graciously offered the use of his pontoon so I could fish the alpine lake with Warren, Steve & Willi on Wednesday. Thanks again, Vern. 9. What did you win at the raffle?

Had already made reservations for Thursday & Friday in the Park way back in March, before the raffle day was set, so missed it. 10. Where were you when Snedeker had the heart attack?

Dave, Dan’l and I went into town to grab a bite of lunch, mail a postcard, have some film developed, get some maps and buy brimmed hats ’cause the tops of our ears were gettin’ fried in the brutal sun wearing just ball caps. "AH HAH !", says Kristine at this point in the narrative, "you were shopping. Three guys shopping, it’s a wonder any of you survived the experience." Humph, says I, were not either, we were BUYING, not shopping. Dave got into his van and drove to the clinic immediately upon our return to camp so I assume he was having a heart attack in the back seat of my Subaru, bummer, but all’s well that ends well. Dave, you’ll have to finish that ‘Clave painting from memory and post a photo. 11. If you had it to do over again, what would you do differently?

Stay all week. 12. Which ROFFian was the MOST like you thought they’d be? 13. Which ROFFian was the LEAST like you thought they’d be?

No surprises, really. Trip report to follow soon. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

 When Bob Skinner learned he lives along the route I drove, and at the halfway point, he opened up his home to me and the lovely massuese.

        did i get that right; did you say you and "…the lovely massues"?  the hell with all that other bullshit–let’s hear about *that*! wayno, goin for the jugular

Response:

7. Did HWMNBN make a public appearance?     I assume you mean George.  Haven’t figured out the acronym, yet. Nope.

Bob, It’s from the "Harry Potter" book series and It stands for "He Who Must Not Be Named". The Character is Voldemort, an evil Wizard that uses his powers for evil instead of good and is always causing trouble for Harry Potter and his friends. Paul

Response:

Steve Zimmerman wrote 1. What days were you there?

       Saturday through Friday 2. Who did you fish with?

       Just about everybody except Snedecker and Vern. 3. Where did you fish?

       The Madison, Jack Creek, Indian Creek, and the west fork of the Madison (my personal favorite). 4. What water was most productive for you?

       Jack Creek, where I didn’t even try to keep count. 5. What was your favorite fly?

       Took 90% of my fish on an elk hair caddis. 6. What was your most memorable fish?

       An 18" rainbow that I pulled out of Jack Creek, remarkable because the creek was so small. 7. Did HWMNBN make a public appearance?

       Not personally, but he sent an emissary bearing gifts. 8. Did Ken and Vern get along?

       Everybody got along splendidly, as long as Vern’s dog doesn’t count as a claver. 9. What did you win at the raffle?

       The 7 1/2′ Happy Hooker donated by George. Much more about this later. 10. Where were you when Snedeker had the heart attack?

         Fishing on Jack Creek. 11. If you had it to do over again, what would you do differently?

         I would of had the air conditioning on my truck fixed BEFORE driving 1700 miles. 12. Which ROFFian was the MOST like you thought they’d be?

         Dan’l. What a hoot. 13. Which ROFFian was the LEAST like you thought they’d be?

         Ken Fortenberry turned out to be the nicest, most considerate guy you’d ever want to meet. I suppose everybody turned out to be nicer than expected, especially compared to their on-line personalities.  Any one of these guys would’ve given you the shirt off his back. When Bob Skinner learned he lives along the route I drove, and at the halfway point, he opened up his home to me and the lovely massuese. We spent a fine evening together, then went and fished one of Bob’s secret spots this morning. Thanks Bob, and any roffer who finds himself in northern Colorado is just as welcome in my home. Even George.

Response:

Ok, so you attended the Western Conclave. You’re tired, you’re hungry, and you don’t have the time to post a week-long trip report… So how’s about you answer this little survey in the meantime? Most of the questions can be answered in a few words. It’ll only take a minute 1. What days were you there?

     I arrived Mon. afternoon and left Friday a.m. 2. Who did you fish with?

     I spent most of my time with ‘ol Daniel, Willi and Charlie Wilson it seems.   3. Where did you fish?

     Madison, Ruby and Indian Creek 4. What water was most productive for you?

     They were all about the same for me, fair, by comparison to where I normally fish.   99% of my fishing is lake fishing and my knowledge of stream fishing is limited.  But, that knowledge was increased quite a bit by watching Willi fish.  Heck, that guy could pull a fish out of the back of my Jeep, I believe.  I really enjoyed watching him fish & learned a lot. 5. What was your favorite fly?

    I seemed to have the most luck with an elk hair caddis and beadhead pheasant tail 6. What was your most memorable fish?

    The best fish was the one I broke off in the Madison.   I’m just not used to playing a fish in moving water (or keeping my footing.  Didn’t get wet but it was close a few times.) 7. Did HWMNBN make a public appearance?

    I assume you mean George.  Haven’t figured out the acronym, yet. Nope. 8. Did Ken and Vern get along?

    I didn’t monitor the "companionship monitor":) 9. What did you win at the raffle?

     I won a box of "Holdzit" products: Tool Saver, floatant holders in double and single and a new product that holds a 35mm plastic film canister.  There were duplicates so I put the extras as an add-on on the raffle items so more folks would be exposed to the products. 10. Where were you when Snedeker had the heart attack?

   He was in the hospital when I arrived.  I did get to meet him, however.  As he took his keys with him and his wife flew into Billings, I drove to Billings & picked up his wife and drove her back to Ennis so she could pick up their van.  Dave looked good and was in good spirits. Had a nice visit on the way back to Ennis with his wife, Bonnie. 11. If you had it to do over again, what would you do differently?

   I would have drift boated the Madison.  You can only reach so much water when casting from close to shore.  And, as I’m not used to wading big streams (and the Madison looked really big to me) I would have been more comfortable in a boat (or pontoon). 12. Which ROFFian was the MOST like you thought they’d be?

   ’ol Daniel, I guess. 13. Which ROFFian was the LEAST like you thought they’d be?

   That’s easy.  Ken Fortenberry.  A pleasant surprise.  I really liked the left winger much to my surprise. (Dear Ken, I hope I didn’t destroy your image.  Steve asked and I had to respond:) Bonus questions (only one person need answer): (a) who won the bamboo rod and the Connor rod? (b) Is Snedeker going to be OK?

  Vern won the wonderful rod that you donated, Steve.  What a beautiful piece of work!  It was very generous of you to donate such a nice rod.   beautiful piece of work.  Charlie stopped by here on his way back to CO and I got to cast the rod.  It was a delight.  A 4 wt. (don’t remember how long) and a pretty rod.  I laid out 60-70 feet of line with out too much trouble.  Charlie will post more of a review when he gets back, I’ll bet.  Sorry, I can’t remember who won Mike’s rod but it too was a finally crafted rod.  I am really tickled that Steve, G and Mike would donate such fine rods, especially complicated to build bamboo rods. That’s way beyond the call of duty and is very generous.  It was fun to see the look on the winner’s faces.  Every winner was tickled silly. Bob Skinner  Buffalo, WY — —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

Ok, so you attended the Western Conclave. You’re tired, you’re hungry, and you don’t have the time to post a week-long trip report… So how’s about you answer this little survey in the meantime? Most of the questions can be answered in a few words. It’ll only take a minute 10. Where were you when Snedeker had the heart attack? Bonus questions (only one person need answer): (a) who won the bamboo rod and the Connor rod? (b) Is Snedeker going to be OK?

Holy…..!  He actually had a heart attack?  I saw something about it, but thought it was some joke I didn’t have time to catch up on… If so, add my name to the list sending good wishes. TC, R

Response:

Ok, so you attended the Western Conclave. You’re tired, you’re hungry, and you don’t have the time to post a week-long trip report… So how’s about you answer this little survey in the meantime? Most of the questions can be answered in a few words. It’ll only take a minute 1. What days were you there? 2. Who did you fish with? 3. Where did you fish? 4. What water was most productive for you? 5. What was your favorite fly? 6. What was your most memorable fish? 7. Did HWMNBN make a public appearance? 8. Did Ken and Vern get along? 9. What did you win at the raffle? 10. Where were you when Snedeker had the heart attack? 11. If you had it to do over again, what would you do differently? 12. Which ROFFian was the MOST like you thought they’d be? 13. Which ROFFian was the LEAST like you thought they’d be? Bonus questions (only one person need answer): (a) who won the bamboo rod and the Connor rod? (b) Is Snedeker going to be OK? –Steve

Response:

Question:

Unfortunately there is no cure to this illness and it has been known to have such side effects including, but not limited to, poverty, divorce, sleeplessness, and wandering from trout stream to trout stream.

Warren, I read about your basement apartment and it saddened me.  I hope you’re okay and that you’re not left in a financial hole for the rest of your life. My brother can’t seem to lift his head above water and it’s been 7 years now.  He had to move back in with mom and dad because he can’t financially support himself after he pays everything else.  I just wish situations like this were more fair for everyone instead of sticking it to the guy.  I’d like to see my brother able to move into his own place and become independent, but as soon as he gets a little better job or a pay raze, they ask for more money.  He has two jobs and has to work so many hours that he doesn’t even have time to see his kid.  Now, is that fair?  It’s as though he has become a financial slave, allowing others to create a new life and frolic in the sun while he works his ass off. — Vern My ROFF page: http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/ResortRd/v_deloy/ROFFintro.html "Wilderness needs no defense, only more defenders"                             quote by Edward Abbey Before you buy.

Response:

Vern, not to worry.  Maybe I can make tons of money as a trout bum down the road.  Hell, hopefully I can get my degree and then get into law school. That’s my goal anyway.  I hear them lawyers invented copper wire by fighting over a penny and can make their own schedules which allows them plenty of time to fish.  In the meantime I’ll just have to make due. Warren X#-[

Trout Dwellers Unite! Western Conclave Guru For info: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/sp_ROFF_people/wclave/wclave.html

Response:

…but i will be the first to say i have alot of practicing to do,,and alot to learn… like should you fish upstream, or down, or across, or look for pockets?  time of the day that is best? and so on!!!  well thanks for listing,, and everyone elses question that i am reading here in this forum… thanks.. Alex

Well, you’re getting ready to go on a trip soon, right?  Why don’t you tell us more about what the conditions are like there, where it is, what kind of water, what kind of fish, etc. Regards, Jeff

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …but i will be the first to say i have alot of practicing to do,,and alot to learn… like should you fish upstream, or down, or across, or look for pockets?  time of the day that is best? and so on!!!  well thanks for listing,, and everyone elses question that i am reading here in this forum… thanks.. Alex Well, you’re getting ready to go on a trip soon, right?  Why don’t you tell us more about what the conditions are like there, where it is, what kind of water, what kind of fish, etc. Regards, Jeff

hello jeff, well i am not sure of the place that i am going, since i have never been there before. But for what i do know and for what i have researched, is.. Pocono region in PA, there is the Lehigh River, a large river i assume, maybe some fast currents, due to the fact that they have white water rafting. Stocked for trout, rainbows, browns, brooks, steelheads, as far as other fish i am unsure, sure theres alot though,,, water conditions are varied at the moment,, water is moving quite fast although the levels are declining… other than that i am still in the process of the research…casting question,,,when there is a loud "snap" , is that good or bad? do you know of any internet videos that show the ideal casting movement and or presentations?  also, what should the ideal lenghts of the leader and the tippit be? Can you attach aweight forward line to a balanced line..etc…. last but not least(for today )  is it ok to have all of the fly line out and getting into the backing during casting, or is that mostly for when you have a fish on the run?  thanks. alex * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

will be the first to say i have alot of practicing to do,,and alot to learn… like should you fish upstream, or down, or across, or look for pockets?  time of the day that is best?

I haven’t fished the Lehigh but it is a big river.  Assuming you’ll be fishing below the dam it is 50-100 feet wide in places and wading can be difficult so be careful how you step.  I have read if you want to avoid the rafters it’s better to fish above White Haven, or below early or late in the day.  As for the fishing, just fish whenever you can – trout can be caught all day long. Try starting out with a basic technique that appeals to you – upstream or 45 degrees up-and-across stream with a dry fly or a nymph and strike indicator, or possibly a streamer like a Woolly Bugger across and downstream.  Get one of the beginner books recommended, and go out and fish! casting question,,,when there is a loud "snap" , is that good or bad?

Not good.  It’s like cracking a bull whip and it’s even possible to snap a fly off that way!  But the main problem is your cast is not well synchronized yet, but that is common.  As you develop a little more line speed the line will straighten better behind you, and if you wait until it’s uncurled behind you or almost uncurled before casting forward this problem will go away. do you know of any internet videos that show the ideal casting movement and or presentations?

Someone else please? Can you attach aweight forward line to a balanced line

Not sure what you mean by balanced line (balanced outfit?), but yes, in fact if you got a level line with your outfit I would suggest replacing it with a value priced WF (Weight Forward).  It should help your casting. what should the ideal lenghts of the leader and the tippit be?

As you might guess there is no one answer.  It depends on the situation.  The longer the leader the more difficult it usually gets to cast.  The fly line can startle fish in clear, smooth water, so a longer leader might be used there. But I wouldn’t worry too much about it under regular conditions and just get a leader around 7.5 to 9 feet.  Or ask you local dealer about what kind of fishing you’ll do on the Lehigh.  You can actually just use the leader right out of the bag for tying on the first fly or 2, but you will want to add a couple feet or so of tippet and replace it as it gets shorter during the day. Some people do this: if they want a 9 foot 4X leader, they buy a 7.5 foot 3X leader and tie on 1.5 to 2 feet of 4X tippet material to it right away. is it ok to have all of the fly line out and getting into the backing during casting, or is that mostly for when you have a fish on the run?

You would be quite a prodigy if you are accomplishing that kind of cast.  A big trout in a strong current could take that much line out, but pretty rarely (steelhead and salmon fishing I suppose it would not be uncommon.) Regards, Jeff

Response:

hello again everyone… i thank everyone that has responded to my message yesterday. all help is appreciated,, so after i sent that message, i looked through the local phone book here in harrisburg, PA,, and found a fly shop,, grabbed my pole and headed down there… after finally finding the shop, i went in and started asking for help,,, the gentlemen where ever so kind and showed me alot, they took the time to explain things and show me the basics. I told them where i would be fishing and what i would mostly be fishing for..trout, bass, etc… then as the years go by, maybe other fish.. but for now i will take what i can get.  :)  so while being excited about the whole things i drove home with some new flys,, and a little knowledge…went in the back yard a practised my casting,, didnt do bad, but can understand and see how this works.. so i then went to the creek to get my feet wet.. after about a hour of tring and casting and oh those wind knots… i caught a fish!!! a bass,, woohoo, he was kinda small, maybe 8 inches, but nonetheless he was a fish… so now atleast i know it works,, but i will be the first to say i have alot of practicing to do,,and alot to learn… like should you fish upstream, or down, or across, or look for pockets?  time of the day that is best? and so on!!!  well thanks for listing,, and everyone elses question that i am reading here in this forum… thanks.. Alex * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

hello again everyone… i thank everyone that has responded to my message yesterday. all help is appreciated,, so after i sent that message, i looked through the local phone book here in harrisburg, PA,, and found a fly shop,, grabbed my pole and headed down there

Don’t do that.  This is likely illegal, and if you do it whilst holding a fly _rod_, you could give fly fishermen a bad name (well, really, a worse name…) <G …. after finally finding the shop, i went in and started asking for help,,, the gentlemen where ever so kind and showed me alot, they took the time to explain things and show me the basics. I told them where i would be fishing and what i would mostly be fishing for..trout, bass, etc… then as the years go by, maybe other fish.. but for now i will take what i can get.  :)  so while being excited about the whole things i drove home with some new flys,, and a little knowledge…went in the back yard a practised my casting,, didnt do bad, but can understand and see how this works.. so i then went to the creek to get my feet wet.. after about a hour of tring and casting and oh those wind knots

It will get easier, you sound like you’ve got the right attitude… … i caught a fish!!! a bass,, woohoo, he was kinda small, maybe 8 inches,

WOW, a 2-FOOTER!?!?!  ON THE FIRST CAST?!?!  Well, it is a shame it got away, but it least you landed the smaller one…(HINT, HINT).  You gotta practice all the skills, not just the casting…<G. but nonetheless he was a fish… so now atleast i know it works,, but i will be the first to say i have alot of practicing to do,,and alot to learn… like should you fish upstream, or down, or across, or look for pockets?

Oh, god, are you English?  Generally, unless you’re a guest on private waters, fish where the fish are, and here’s why:  If you’re fishing for food, it’s the best way to eat, and if you’re fishing for the love or sport, it’s your love and/or your sport.  Just don’t start doing Brad Pitt imitations or buying "all Orvis, all the time"  time of the day that is best? and so on!!!  well thanks for listing,, and everyone elses question that i am reading here in this forum… thanks.. Alex

TC, Welcome, R

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(snip)

Alex, Sounds like you are off to a good start.  :-) — Vern My ROFF page: http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/ResortRd/v_deloy/ROFFintro.html "Wilderness needs no defense, only more defenders"                             quote by Edward Abbey Before you buy.

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   Take it one step at a time.  Like me, I tried to do fly fishing on the cheap.  I love the sport but, due to the nature of military service (ya think I’m in it for the money?) I couldn’t afford all those nice things off the bat, so I’ve been slowly building up. (read terminal gear whore after many years)    Tying flies.  I decided to learn to tie flys ’cause it had to cheaper than buying those little bitty things.  If you get the urge to tie flies to save yourself some money, here is my foolproof 7 step plan to tying flies: Step 1:  Find a nice comfortable seat at a table.  Put something like plexiglass over a 2X2 area of the table to protect it from damage.  Don’t use a clamp vise on your dining room table.  The wife will find the damage, trust me. Step 2:  Get something to keep yourself organized.  I use an old ashtray (don’t smoke anymore) to keep small things in cause it has nice little indents in the side to keep all my tools. Step 3:  Reach into your bag and get the duct tape that you keep handy for those fishing emergencies. Step 4:  Have some one (you trust) tie you to the chair using the duct tape. Ensure that all is secure and a piece goes over your mouth. Step 5: Have that person reach into you back pocket, take out your wallet and burn all the money in there in the ashtray. Step 6: Send the person off to the ATM to max out your cards.  Please make sure he has your PIN numbers before he ties you up. Step 7:  Have your buddy burn all the money from the ATM in the ashtray while screaming "Fly tying, Bad!" over and over again.  Voila! You’re done!     This simple 7 step plan will save you the time that you’ll spend hanging out in petting zoos trying to trim that yak, stopping for road kill on a charcoal black ground squirrel and expounding ad nauseum on how unfair the penalty for importing polar bear pelts is to a true fly tying artist.  I won’t even go into the prices that people pay for a chicken skin.  Or the problems that can occur when an improperly stored road kill has its own "hatch."  (never, my God, never mention maggots to my wife)  Burning your money in one swell foop is also cheaper in the long run.  It gets it out of your system quickly and is good for your neighborhood fly merchant.                 The Reid Seven-Step-Method is available as a book on tape.                       Thank you                                     Frank Reid

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Snap is BAD.All the line out to the backing is GOOD.!If you are a beginner and you are casting the whole line to the backing you should be giving lesons! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …but i will be the first to say i have alot of practicing to do,,and alot to learn… like should you fish upstream, or down, or across, or look for pockets?  time of the day that is best? and so on!!!  well thanks for listing,, and everyone elses question that i am reading here in this forum… thanks.. Alex Well, you’re getting ready to go on a trip soon, right?  Why don’t you tell us more about what the conditions are like there, where it is, what kind of water, what kind of fish, etc. Regards, Jeff hello jeff, well i am not sure of the place that i am going, since i have never been there before. But for what i do know and for what i have researched, is.. Pocono region in PA, there is the Lehigh River, a large river i assume, maybe some fast currents, due to the fact that they have white water rafting. Stocked for trout, rainbows, browns, brooks, steelheads, as far as other fish i am unsure, sure theres alot though,,, water conditions are varied at the moment,, water is moving quite fast although the levels are declining… other than that i am still in the process of the research…casting question,,,when there is a loud "snap" , is that good or bad? do you know of any internet videos that show the ideal casting movement and or presentations?  also, what should the ideal lenghts of the leader and the tippit be? Can you attach aweight forward line to a balanced line..etc…. last but not least(for today )  is it ok to have all of the fly line out and getting into the backing during casting, or is that mostly for when you have a fish on the run?  thanks. alex * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

Alex, glad to hear things went well for you.  Congratulations on catching your first fish on the fly.  Some people find it takes much longer to "devirginize" themselves. like should you fish upstream, or down, or across, or look for pockets?  time of the day that is best? and so on!!!

Unfortunately, there really isn’t any golden rule for these questions.  At times fishing upstream is the best bet, but then again, sometimes the currents will make this impossible and you have to change your position and avenue of approach.  Pockets can be excellent places to pick up fish.  It has been my experience that in general, morning and evening is the most active time, but that fish can be caught all day. I guess this is what I found part of the fun when I started fly fishing.  I had been a worm drowner and hardware hucker for years so I knew how to find the fish, but there were so many challenges to overcome fly fishing that it kept me busy constantly trying to learn and improve.  Let’s just say that the more experience you get, the more you realize you need to learn and the more you will fish, experiment, and read.  Eventually you discover that you will never live long enough to learn *everything* and will be happy just in the attempt. Good luck to you.  Unfortunately there is no cure to this illness and it has been known to have such side effects including, but not limited to, poverty, divorce, sleeplessness, and wandering from trout stream to trout stream. Warren X#-[

Trout Dwellers Unite! Western Conclave Guru For info: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/sp_ROFF_people/wclave/wclave.html

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Question:

But seriously, someone once told me that Greg LeMonde was accidentally shot while he was fly fishing.  This true? I believe he was hunting birds with his brother.

He was turkey hunting. JM

Response:

Well done Mike!  I don’t know bout Uncle Sam teaching him to shoot Indians at three hundred yards, but I wonder who taught him to shoot himself so comprehensively in the foot!!  Gillaroo

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[snip] I can hear an occasional rustling in the brush.  Maybe hear a bird or was it a bat flying by.

Or maybe it was a 30/06 whizzing by… /daytripper (maybe I should paint my vest blaze orange?)

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An archived article by Old Rupe indicates that he often fishes in Michigan.  And it got me thinking… There are those days.  I’ve made it to the stream somehow in spite of my work schedule. It’s before daybreak and I am shivering on the tailgate of my truck.  I can hear an occasional rustling in the brush.  Maybe hear a bird or was it a bat flying by.  What is very obvious is the sound of the river and the anticipation of excitement.  A bit of starlight or moonlight provides just enough to see the outline of the trees.  These are the moments when the imagination sometimes runs wild and suddenly, I begin wondering about those sightings of the Michigan sasquatch.  Oh s**t, what was that?  Did I just see an anthropoidal form emerge from the shadowed thicket?  Or is it Old Rupe at three hundred yards trying to get a good look at my face? Mu in Michigan

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Maybe hear a bird or was it a bat flying by. Or maybe it was a 30/06 whizzing by… /daytripper (maybe I should paint my vest blaze orange?)

Oh, Mr. T, you menfolks is always talking about your guns and what size it is   d;-) But seriously, someone once told me that Greg LeMonde was accidentally shot while he was fly fishing.  This true? Mu

Response:

But seriously, someone once told me that Greg LeMonde was accidentally shot while he was fly fishing.  This true?

I believe he was hunting birds with his brother. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

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Question:

writes I agree with your views.  Trout, as a species is generally a small fish that averages (AVERAGES) about 12 – 14 inches.  Where are the pictures of those?

Regrettably or otherwise, most stillwater anglers would be disappointed if their rainbows measured only 12-14 inches.  That is the state of things where Troutmaster Monthly winners are concerned.  With Triploids of up to 15 lbs stocked, the little ‘uns dont come into the reckonig. Regards, — Bill

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writes I agree with your views.  Trout, as a species is generally a small fish that averages (AVERAGES) about 12 – 14 inches.  Where are the pictures of those? Regrettably or otherwise, most stillwater anglers would be disappointed if their rainbows measured only 12-14 inches.  That is the state of things where Troutmaster Monthly winners are concerned.  With Triploids of up to 15 lbs stocked, the little ‘uns dont come into the reckonig. Regards,

– Ive often wondered if there are enough people  who would like to fish with the lighter fly lines say 3-5 for smaller fish and perhaps pay less for a day ticket. My favourite fishing is for brownies in smallish rivers and streams in the west, Scotland and Eire . Living just outside Milton Keynes I only fish like this for a few weeks a year. A small fish fishery would get my support if within reasonable driving distance. Anybody else feel the same.? Peter Marler

Response:

A small fish fishery would get my support if within reasonable driving distance. Anybody else feel the same.? Peter Marler

One of my local small stillwaters comprises several ponds, the main one has produced a Welsh record trout of over 24 lbs.  Ther is also a beginners fly pond, also an any method pond for children and non fly- fishermen.  One day, on arriving at the lodge, I was told that the "main" pond was full (max. number of anglers), so I asked if I could go on the beginners pond.  The fish here are averaging around 3/4 lbs.  I had a great afternoon’s sport, landing six, but missed about five others, and all the fish caught were decent plate sized trout. The above is a sort of example of your suggestion. Regards, — Bill

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Indeed.  My husband and I search out the small, native and generally less accessible waters in the NC mountains.  We particularly like to fish to the small native brook trout population with a fly my best friend has dubbed the "Energizer" (It keeps going & going much like the battery bunny of US commercials). – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – writes I agree with your views.  Trout, as a species is generally a small fish that averages (AVERAGES) about 12 – 14 inches.  Where are the pictures of those? Regrettably or otherwise, most stillwater anglers would be disappointed if their rainbows measured only 12-14 inches.  That is the state of things where Troutmaster Monthly winners are concerned.  With Triploids of up to 15 lbs stocked, the little ‘uns dont come into the reckonig. Regards, — Ive often wondered if there are enough people  who would like to fish with the lighter fly lines say 3-5 for smaller fish and perhaps pay less for a day ticket. My favourite fishing is for brownies in smallish rivers and streams in the west, Scotland and Eire . Living just outside Milton Keynes I only fish like this for a few weeks a year. A small fish fishery would get my support if within reasonable driving distance. Anybody else feel the same.? Peter Marler

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______ I agree with your views.  Trout, as a species is generally a small fish that averages (AVERAGES) about 12 – 14 inches.  Where are the pictures of those? Mr. G. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Totally agree with the perspective photo in Trout Fisherman, I wonder if the angler felt better after his fish was portrayed as some protein-bound leviathan. One point which is hard to digest is the rose-tinted view of some anglers, sure we would all like to be on the magical rivers, catching wild browns, but it is not practical. Fly-fishing is for everyone – I have people fish at Cheshire Fishing, who could not manage to fish rivers, I have shift workers who have to grab every moment they can – people who doubt the beauty of such places, then surely have never been. I have fished on rivers, from the beautiful Eastern Cleddau to the Cheshire Dee, they are certainly no more scenic than Cheshire Fishing. Sure, we have double figure trout, but they are not tailess, egg-bound females, they are hard, silver, full tailed trout and the fish are noted for their beauty whatever the size. The main difference is, our trout are raised in earth ponds and their diet is supplemented with natural invertabrates like Shrimp. Don’t mock man made stillwaters – they have their niche – if you like rivers then fish them. Any doubts I had over the ethics of stillwaters was lost, when the teacher of a group of abused boys, told me that she had never in her career, seen a group hold attention for this length of time, their normal attention span was less than 15 minutes, these were spellbound for four hours, they co-operated with each other, they displayed characteristics never shown before. If anyone would like jpegs of fish, scenery etc, just let me know, and if the perspective is wrong on my pictures, then it is because I am a crap photographer, not because I wanted the fish to look bigger..! You are welcome to visit our website http://freespace.virgin.net/r.j/Cheshire.htm

Response:

Totally agree with the perspective photo in Trout Fisherman, I wonder if the angler felt better after his fish was portrayed as some protein-bound leviathan. One point which is hard to digest is the rose-tinted view of some anglers, sure we would all like to be on the magical rivers, catching wild browns, but it is not practical. Fly-fishing is for everyone – I have people fish at Cheshire Fishing, who could not manage to fish rivers, I have shift workers who have to grab every moment they can – people who doubt the beauty of such places, then surely have never been. I have fished on rivers, from the beautiful Eastern Cleddau to the Cheshire Dee, they are certainly no more scenic than Cheshire Fishing. Sure, we have double figure trout, but they are not tailess, egg-bound females, they are hard, silver, full tailed trout and the fish are noted for their beauty whatever the size. The main difference is, our trout are raised in earth ponds and their diet is supplemented with natural invertabrates like Shrimp. Don’t mock man made stillwaters – they have their niche – if you like rivers then fish them. Any doubts I had over the ethics of stillwaters was lost, when the teacher of a group of abused boys, told me that she had never in her career, seen a group hold attention for this length of time, their normal attention span was less than 15 minutes, these were spellbound for four hours, they co-operated with each other, they displayed characteristics never shown before. If anyone would like jpegs of fish, scenery etc, just let me know, and if the perspective is wrong on my pictures, then it is because I am a crap photographer, not because I wanted the fish to look bigger..! You are welcome to visit our website http://freespace.virgin.net/r.j/Cheshire.htm

Response:

Question:

I am sixteen years old and love to flyfish.  I am pretty sure that this is one sport I will never quit.  I want to invest in a fly rod, and I am leaning toward buying the Henry’s Fork Rocky Mt. version from Orvis.  I usually fish for trout, small smallmouth, and occaisionally panfish.  If anyone has any advice at all  it would be greatly appreciated.  Thank you in advance.          LITTLE GONZO –

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Would be an excellent choice. I used to catch carp on that rod using a nymph on hook 10 and a 7lb tippet. A great rod for troutfishing too. The action of that rod is not to fast but still quick enough to punch a big fly in to the wind. The carp i caught was somewhere between 10 and 15 lb . so you see no worry for breaking the rod. My biggest trout was 22" and 3 1/2 lb. lots of success and look no further for a rod.                          tight lines in 1996,                                            Otto Winter

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I am sixteen years old and love to flyfish.  I am pretty sure that this is one sport I will never quit.  I want to invest in a fly rod, and I am leaning toward buying the Henry’s Fork Rocky Mt. version from Orvis.  I usually fish for trout, small smallmouth, and occaisionally panfish.  If anyone has any advice at all  it would be greatly appreciated.  Thank you in advance.          LITTLE GONZO

My first fly rod (and so far only fly rod) is a Henry’s Fork with a Battenkill 5/6 Disc reel and a SA Mastery WFF line.  Before I got Hank I used to borrow rods from friends, so I can compare Hank to other rods. The action is slow and comfy.  It is well suited to fishing in "bush tunnel" creeks.  Shorter and rods would be better, but it is nice to have the extra length when I wade deply in larger bodies of water.  I have used Hank to toss #4 streamers to bass and pike.  Longer, stiffer, heavier rods would be better for this, but those rods are useless on small creeks. In other words, the Henry’s Fork is a happy compromise.  By the time I can afford another rod, I hope to have learned to exploit all of Hank’s virtues so that I can better appreciate how the new rod remedies Hanks shortcomings. On the other hand, I do not want to wait that long before buying a new rod!  ;-) — Keep your stick on the ice.

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The Henry’s Fork Rocky Mt version from Orvis is a very good choice – especially since it comes with the 25 yr warranty. For panfish, trout, and smallmouth, a 5 wgt is perfect.

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I would agree. The Henry’s Fork is a great buy in the RM. I personally think that a 6wt give you a wee bit more versitility. There’s a Rocky Mountain 9 ft 6 wt thats a good buy also as well as the HLS RM which is a little bit faster than the Superfine graphite and is about the same price. Chuck Abbott

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Question:

A friend of mine (not online) just passed on to me the strangest dressing for a fly I’ve ever seen called the Regal Eagle. In my 50 years of fly fishing I’ve never seen anything like it: Regal Eagle dressing: Hook: Taokao 3902 (Korean made, apparently great strength in thinness) Size: 10 to 20 Thread: 6/0 black pre-waxed Tail: Pheasant Hackle fibers Body: Olive Chenille ultra thin wound together with peacock herl. Hackle: American Bald Eagle Hackle (taken from behind the neck). I was shocked at the Balk Eagle as I had thought this was a protected bird. Now I am told that some are raised in captivity for the express purpose of fly tying. I am also told that this simple fly REALLY catches fish. Has anyone else heard of it? I also have heard several fly tying catalogs out of Missouri are offering Bald Eagle feathers for sale. –Wal.

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writes: A friend of mine (not online) just passed on to me the strangest dressing for a fly I’ve ever seen called the Regal Eagle. In my 50 years of fly fishing I’ve never seen anything like it:

It sounds to me like this fly was developed to sell bald eagle feathers and catch suckers (and I don’t mean fish:) Ernie Harrison

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The American Bald Eagle is a C.I.T.E.S. class 1 protected species.  Anyone portending to sell or posess these feathers is either a) not selling the real thing or b) playing with fire. A class 1 listing simply means that under no circumstances is anyone allowed to posess/barter/sell any plumage from the bird nor the bird itself, be it alive or dead. There are other Eagle species, however that are Class 2 and Class 3, notably the Golden Eagle, which, by the way, makes the most incredible Spey hackles you’ll ever see! Let’s have a GREAT time, but let’s be careful out there!  :-) ~Spider  <<**

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Question:

Can anyone recommend a good book on knot tieing ?  Actually, what I’d REALLY like is a stream-side guide to knot tieing … something I can stick in my vest, preferrably water-proofed, that covers a few basic knots. Ken Boulder, CO.

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Can anyone recommend a good book on knot tieing ?  Actually, what I’d REALLY like is a stream-side guide to knot tieing … something I can stick in my vest, preferrably water-proofed, that covers a few basic knots. Ken Boulder, CO.

It’s a little large for a vest, but the best knot tying book I have seen is "Practical Fishing Knots II" by Mark Sosin and Lefty Kreh. // // Charlie… //

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Can anyone recommend a good book on knot tieing ?  Actually, what I’d
REALLY like is a stream-side guide to knot tieing … something I can
stick in my vest, preferrably water-proofed, that covers a few basic

Save the cash and buy the current issue of  Fly Fisherman. It has one of the best articles I’ve seen that actually tested the strength of some of the more popular knots. Learn to tie two of those knots and you won’t ever need to learn any more about knots.

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I have a ’stream guide’ on my  fly box – it’s the metal kind.  Pasted on the outer side of the cover is a schematic of about 8 popular knots. I never use it because I tie the same 3 knots for anything I do:  blood for joining tippets and leaders; nail for joining leader to flyline, and Duncan for tying on flies.  After several hundred times of tying these, one never forgets how.   Point:  Practice 3 – 4 of your favorite knots over and over and you won’t need a stream guide.  Leaves more time for fishing instead of debating which knot to use, how to tie, etc…. Have fun. Jim

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Orvis has just such a thing, the "Waterproof Vest Pocket Knot Booklet" written by Doug Truax. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Can anyone recommend a good book on knot tieing ?  Actually, what I’d REALLY like is a stream-side guide to knot tieing … something I can stick in my vest, preferrably water-proofed, that covers a few basic knots. Ken Boulder, CO.

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