Question:

they tend to be much more     durable than the store-bought variety, and cost about 50 cents apiece.     Home-made leaders cost me about a dime apiece, if that. I can tell that you haven’t bought store-bought leaders in quite a while.     Willi

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 I have been reading about the advantages/disadvantages of leader material. The author of the book I’m reading seemed to indicate that manufactured knotless leaders can have a variability in performance because of the way the leader is tapered.  Knotted leaders gives more control of the proportions on the leader formulas to ensure the taper is more accurate. Also, there is the flexibility of using different types of leader material to customize the leader to the fishing conditions.  Like using a stiffer leader material on the butt and middle sections and more supple material on the presentation end of the leader. He also gets into the types of knots and whether or not "hinging" occurs and what impact that has on the transfer of energy from the rod to the line to the fly. Is there a preference by you guys whether or not you tie your own leaders or go with the ready-made pre-tapered leaders? Thanks, Eric p.s.  Thanks for the response on the tippet post.  A lot of good info there.

Response:

I personally don’t really have a preference either way. I do find in some rivers where algae is a problem the need to constantly clear the knots on the leader of the weed or algae to be a pain, but  then I have to do that with the tippet knot anyway. In this day and age of convenience I find the range of tapered leaders now offered covers all of the fishing situations I do and it’s simple. I have a heavy piece of butt section needle knotted to the fly line, I attach a commercial leader to that and a tippet to the end of it and go fishing. Tying your own leaders can be fun, but I find the fun soon wears off. Umpqua have a phenomenal range of different leaders. check out their web site if you are interested, even if you don’t purchase your leaders their various different designs will give you some ideas for your own. Clark

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been reading about the advantages/disadvantages of leader material. The author of the book I’m reading seemed to indicate that manufactured knotless leaders can have a variability in performance because of the way the leader is tapered.  Knotted leaders gives more control of the proportions on the leader formulas to ensure the taper is more accurate. Also, there is the flexibility of using different types of leader material to customize the leader to the fishing conditions.  Like using a stiffer leader material on the butt and middle sections and more supple material on the presentation end of the leader. He also gets into the types of knots and whether or not "hinging" occurs and what impact that has on the transfer of energy from the rod to the line to the fly. Is there a preference by you guys whether or not you tie your own leaders or go with the ready-made pre-tapered leaders? Thanks, Eric p.s.  Thanks for the response on the tippet post.  A lot of good info there.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been reading about the advantages/disadvantages of leader material. The author of the book I’m reading seemed to indicate that manufactured knotless leaders can have a variability in performance because of the way the leader is tapered.  Knotted leaders gives more control of the proportions on the leader formulas to ensure the taper is more accurate. Also, there is the flexibility of using different types of leader material to customize the leader to the fishing conditions.  Like using a stiffer leader material on the butt and middle sections and more supple material on the presentation end of the leader. He also gets into the types of knots and whether or not "hinging" occurs and what impact that has on the transfer of energy from the rod to the line to the fly. Is there a preference by you guys whether or not you tie your own leaders or go with the ready-made pre-tapered leaders?

I almost always make my own because I think it’s easy and like you said I can use whatever material I want.  I can whip up a leader or fix one in a couple minutes out on the stream.  I don’t think there’s as much difference between some of these leader formulas as the creators imply, but still it’s nice to know you can quickly make changes to your leader once you know the basics of how they work and how to tie the knots.

Response:

In this day and age of convenience I find the range of tapered leaders now offered covers all of the fishing situations I do and it’s simple. I have a heavy piece of butt section needle knotted to the fly line, I attach a commercial leader to that and a tippet to the end of it and go fishing. Tying your own leaders can be fun, but I find the fun soon wears off.

Sounds like you’re tying your own leaders the way it is.  Borger’s Uni-body leader is no more complicated than that.

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[...] I don’t think there’s as much difference between some of these leader formulas as the creators imply…

        Agreed.  There are more variations in leader formulae than Heinz has pickles and ketchup.  :-)  I’ve been using the simple formula in Kreh’s and Sosin’s "Practical Fishing Knots", and for 90% of the fishing I do, it works about as well as anything.   but still it’s nice to know you can quickly make changes to your leader once you know the basics of how they work and how to tie the knots.

        I think that’s the beauty of tying your own.  You can tweak your leader to the conditions and the characteristics of the fly you’re using and refine the presentation to what you need.  Sometimes this can really pay off.  Of course, other times, the leader configuration doesn’t matter a whit. Todd

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Perhaps so, so but in reality, that is the correct way to use store bought leaders with the butt section bit being the only real optional part. Tippet should always be added pretty much. Clark

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In this day and age of convenience I find the range of tapered leaders now offered covers all of the fishing situations I do and it’s simple. I have a heavy piece of butt section needle knotted to the fly line, I attach a commercial leader to that and a tippet to the end of it and go fishing. Tying your own leaders can be fun, but I find the fun soon wears off. Sounds like you’re tying your own leaders the way it is.  Borger’s Uni-body leader is no more complicated than that.

Response:

I have been reading about the advantages/disadvantages of leader material. The author of the book I’m reading seemed to indicate that manufactured knotless leaders can have a variability in performance because of the way the leader is tapered.  Knotted leaders gives more control of the proportions on the leader formulas to ensure the taper is more accurate. Also, there is the flexibility of using different types of leader material to customize the leader to the fishing conditions.  Like using a stiffer leader material on the butt and middle sections and more supple material on the presentation end of the leader.

I prefer tying my own because a) it can get you back into rising fish faster, and b) the flexibility you mention above. He also gets into the types of knots and whether or not "hinging" occurs and what impact that has on the transfer of energy from the rod to the line to the fly.

I haven’t noticed any hinging with the double surgeon’s knot, and I think the presentation is comparable either way. I’m sure some strength is lost, as it is with any knot, but I haven’t lost any more fish with the hand-tied than with the store-bought. — TL, Tim

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Slightly off topic, but what book are you reading? Jim Ray

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been reading about the advantages/disadvantages of leader material. The author of the book I’m reading seemed to indicate that manufactured knotless leaders can have a variability in performance because of the way the leader is tapered.  Knotted leaders gives more control of the proportions on the leader formulas to ensure the taper is more accurate. Also, there is the flexibility of using different types of leader material to customize the leader to the fishing conditions.  Like using a stiffer leader material on the butt and middle sections and more supple material on the presentation end of the leader. He also gets into the types of knots and whether or not "hinging" occurs and what impact that has on the transfer of energy from the rod to the line to the fly. Is there a preference by you guys whether or not you tie your own leaders or go with the ready-made pre-tapered leaders? Thanks, Eric p.s.  Thanks for the response on the tippet post.  A lot of good info there.

Response:

Is there a preference by you guys whether or not you tie your own leaders or go with the ready-made pre-tapered leaders?

I find the disadvantages of knots in leaders too great for dry fly fishing (viz. bits of flimsy mono catching on the knots.) I use a tapered leader tapered to a heavier weight – say four pounds – then tie a tippet of a lighter weight – say three pounds – maybe two or three feet. And then there’s a couple of feet of heavy mono attached to the line, with a loop in it. Keep cutting the tippet down till there’s no more, then add another. L

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The book is titled "Drag-Free Drift Leader Design and Presentation Techniques for Fly Fishing" by Joseph A. Kissane.  There’s an associated CD Rom that does leader calculations by Steven B. Schweitzer.  He’s cofounder of the Global Flyfisher website.  The book is actually pretty good.  The author is an engineer so it’s written in a technical writing style and is very detailed in parts.  Sometimes I feel like I’m reading a physics textbook. I’m an analyst by profession so I like to understand things. Sometimes I think it’s better not knowing whether my leader is hinging or not.  Like one guy posted on the Leaders & Tippet thread  that goes something like this: "I just tie it that way and it works.  Don’t know why." I think that’s all that counts. Eric

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Slightly off topic, but what book are you reading? Jim Ray I have been reading about the advantages/disadvantages of leader material. The author of the book I’m reading seemed to indicate that manufactured knotless leaders can have a variability in performance because of the way the leader is tapered.  Knotted leaders gives more control of the proportions on the leader formulas to ensure the taper is more accurate. Also, there is the flexibility of using different types of leader material to customize the leader to the fishing conditions.  Like using a stiffer leader material on the butt and middle sections and more supple material on the presentation end of the leader. He also gets into the types of knots and whether or not "hinging" occurs and what impact that has on the transfer of energy from the rod to the line to the fly. Is there a preference by you guys whether or not you tie your own leaders or go with the ready-made pre-tapered leaders? Thanks, Eric p.s.  Thanks for the response on the tippet post.  A lot of good info there.

Response:

Hi Eric, I would say that today that about 90% of the fly fishers use knotless tapered leaders for trout. Why? Well, probably the same reason about 90% of the fly fishers buy flies? They don’t have the time or the skill. Actually, many anglers use knotless leaders for trout because they don’t want all those knots for stuff to catch on. Lots of very sophisticated fly fishers use tapered knotless leader, but they modify them a bit. Years ago we all tied our own leaders because the only ones you could buy were not too good. I still tie my own leaders for steelhead and salt water. I think everyone that wants to tie their own leaders, tie their own flies and build their own rods should do so because it is fun and can be very educational. After you tie your own knotted leaders and play with them to see how they work, you can use knotless tapered leaders and do some adjusting on them to get them to work just fine. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been reading about the advantages/disadvantages of leader material. The author of the book I’m reading seemed to indicate that manufactured knotless leaders can have a variability in performance because of the way the leader is tapered.  Knotted leaders gives more control of the proportions on the leader formulas to ensure the taper is more accurate. Also, there is the flexibility of using different types of leader material to customize the leader to the fishing conditions.  Like using a stiffer leader material on the butt and middle sections and more supple material on the presentation end of the leader. He also gets into the types of knots and whether or not "hinging" occurs and what impact that has on the transfer of energy from the rod to the line to the fly. Is there a preference by you guys whether or not you tie your own leaders or go with the ready-made pre-tapered leaders? Thanks, Eric p.s.  Thanks for the response on the tippet post.  A lot of good info there.

Response:

Hi Eric, I would say that today that about 90% of the fly fishers use knotless tapered leaders for trout. Why? Well, probably the same reason about 90% of the fly fishers buy flies? They don’t have the time or the skill. Actually, many anglers use knotless leaders for trout because they don’t want all those knots for stuff to catch on…

I used knotless leaders for the first year or two that I fly fished, and they worked well enough, but I think my own leaders work even better. Having stuff catch on the knots is a minor to nonexistent "problem," or at least it is in the places I normally fish. When it does happen, removing the moss or whatever is pretty quick and simple. It only takes a few minutes to make a leader from scratch, and these leaders have, IMO, several important advantages. I can give it exactly the taper I want, I can use different kinds of monofilament in different parts of the leader (stiffer at the butt, softer at the tippet, for instance), and when rebuilding the leader at streamside, I know exactly where I am in the taper by following the knots. The toughest part is learning to tie a good blood knot, and it only takes a few leaders to get the hang of that. I tie my own flies for similar reasons. I can use exactly which materials I want, and modify or create patterns as I see fit,  they tend to be much more durable than the store-bought variety, and cost about 50 cents apiece. Home-made leaders cost me about a dime apiece, if that. — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyoming

Response:

Hi Eric, I would say that today that about 90% of the fly fishers use knotless tapered leaders for trout. Why? Well, probably the same reason about 90% of the fly fishers buy flies? They don’t have the time or the skill.

What a "Right On" remark to make.  Great! Actually, many anglers use knotless leaders for trout because they don’t want all those knots for stuff to catch on.

Not, IMHO, anything but a cop out reason.  Doesn’t hold water because it is "The Fly" which must be kept clean at all times.   After you tie your own knotted leaders and play with them to see how they work, you can use knotless tapered leaders and do some adjusting on them to get them to work just fine.

Bill?  I really think you’re a savvy kind of shop owner and the majority of your advice is super.  But I have to say this about tapered leaders.  From Brand to Brand, there is nothing as consistant in fly fishing than the consistant inconsistant tapers of tapered leaders. The ONLY WAY to be assured of a sharp turn over and absolute control for the SERIOUS fly fisherman is to tie their own, or better put, roll their own leaders.  It is rare that anything catches knots in hand tied leaders, not unless the water is full of dissideous moss and junk and even then, a tapered leader still  has a minimum of two or three knots involved. I truely dislike tapered leaders because they are heat melted from a single large diameter butt section and pulled to a longer taper, not unlike pulling warm bubble gum out of one’s mouth.  No two strings or pull are the same. Never! I take my fly fishing much too seriously not to tie my own.  It is an art form just like fly tying.  Why would anyone deny themselves of this pleasure when it comes to "The Ways of a Trout?"  I just can’t fathom the mind set that uses tapered leaders. George Gehrke "who always rolls his own" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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Hi Bill, I haven’t tried tying my own leaders yet but would like to. The knots in the leader seem to be the biggest drawback.  When I went with guide on Henry’s Fork, he set up "our rig" with a set up he tied himself.  I wished I had paid closer attention to what he had done.  We had a full day of great fishing and even for us rookies we could make decent casts (albeit not very far casts).  I buy the pre-made leaders and tie a tippet on the end.  They work well enough but the presentation is poor about half the time.  I’ve tinkered with cutting off certain parts and adding tippet where I think it might work better.  This trial and error approach does not always produce great results. I don’t get out as often as I like so I like to make the best of it when I do. I mostly fish high mountain lakes and as you probably know conditions can change rather quickly. If the day starts out warm and sunny, the leader has some nice flex to it.  Have the sun go behind the clouds and the wind kick up the leader gets stiff and my tippet will wrap around it like a rope on a tether ball pole.   Of course, that’s when the fishing starts to get hot and I’m there with a mess on the end of my fly line. Thanks, Eric

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Question:

The Mid-Willamette Fly Fishers (MWFF) have their monthly meeting this July 9, with Jeff Morgan giving a show about the Yellowstone area as the featured presentation. Jeff gave an excellent presentation about fishing the Cascades to the MWFF about 1 year ago, and has been getting around to many Oregon fly fishing clubs. For more information, please see:      http://www.ovra.com/mwff and grab our July newsletter and club brochure (for time/place/directions info). Thomas Gilg

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Jeff’s presentation on Yellowstone is outstanding.  He put it on up this earlier this year.  It would be worth the drive to see it again.   He talked about  the smaller streams and waters off the tourist path waters in Yellowstone.  Anyone (  even if you think you may never go to Yelowstone ) around that part of the world should show up for his talk.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The Mid-Willamette Fly Fishers (MWFF) have their monthly meeting this July 9, with Jeff Morgan giving a show about the Yellowstone area as the featured presentation. Jeff gave an excellent presentation about fishing the Cascades to the MWFF about 1 year ago, and has been getting around to many Oregon fly fishing clubs. For more information, please see:      http://www.ovra.com/mwff and grab our July newsletter and club brochure (for time/place/directions info). Thomas Gilg

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Question:

For Christmas one year, I got a large wooden "book like" router bit holder. and let me tell ya! It works great as a tackle holder, too!!! I sure got some funky looks for that one from my family……hopefully, I get another one this year! Mike

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I keep my hooks, jigheads, and other such terminal gear in a Plano plastic box. The one I am using now has lids on each side. It would be much better if it opened like a book, or, err, uh, a fly box. I saw such a thing a Home Depot by Dewalt, but it is not quite big enough. It is *very* nice though. And, it might just be big enough… — Citizen Fisherman

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What does it look like??? — regards, RichG

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For Christmas one year, I got a large wooden "book like" router bit holder. and let me tell ya! It works great as a tackle holder, too!!! I sure got some funky looks for that one from my family……hopefully, I get another one this year! Mike I keep my hooks, jigheads, and other such terminal gear in a Plano plastic box. The one I am using now has lids on each side. It would be much better if it opened like a book, or, err, uh, a fly box. I saw such a thing a Home Depot by Dewalt, but it is not quite big enough. It is *very* nice though. And, it might just be big enough… — Citizen Fisherman

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It’s a hinged wooden box with compartments in the inside that hold bits. They are just the right size to hold a med spinnerbait that has the two ends squeezed together, various worms, rapala, etc.  good for when your shore fishing….even though I haven’t shore fished in years……. but, you can bring just the necessary stuff and that is it. Mike

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What does it look like??? — regards, RichG For Christmas one year, I got a large wooden "book like" router bit holder. and let me tell ya! It works great as a tackle holder, too!!! I sure got some funky looks for that one from my family……hopefully, I get another one this year! Mike I keep my hooks, jigheads, and other such terminal gear in a Plano plastic box. The one I am using now has lids on each side. It would be much better if it opened like a book, or, err, uh, a fly box. I saw such a thing a Home Depot by Dewalt, but it is not quite big enough. It is *very* nice though. And, it might just be big enough… — Citizen Fisherman

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Question:

Hello, I recently was in my local K-Mart and checked out the fishing section, while I would find little use in ,most of the products they sell I did find what I precieve to be a bargain. I found Scientific Anglers AirCel Supreme2  WF-6 and-7-  F/S  wet tip III lines for $10.00 each, the orignal price was $36.00 so I picked up two 7wts. and one 6wt.

Those were a bargain, unless they had been ‘cooking’ in the back of the store for years. Don’t tinker with them: you’ll end up spoiling perfectly good lines. Here on UK stillwaters we use sink tips when we need to get wet flies and nymphs down a foot or three deeper than could be achieved with a full floater. Sink tips aren’t quite as sweet to cast as floaters (or even full sinking lines), but they are handy to have in the armoury. You might find them useful for getting nymphs down a bit in faster/deeper streams. Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

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Hello, I recently was in my local K-Mart and checked out the fishing section, while I would find little use in ,most of the products they sell I did find what I precieve to be a bargain. I found Scientific Anglers AirCel Supreme2  WF-6 and-7-  F/S  wet tip III lines for $10.00 each, the orignal price was $36.00 so I picked up two 7wts. and one 6wt. My questions are has anybody used this line in the sink tip much, I have never used a sink tip and if it would be better to have a top of the line (line) I would use the three I have to trade w/friends and purchase a higher quality line. Does this line have a stiff finish (AirCell)  also my last question is about what line wt. to use, I have a fast 6.wt. and the directions say to use a line wt. heavier if you want to trim the 10ft. tip into say a 6ft. I find a floater is just fine for the majority of my fishing but there are times when a sink tip would be good, Does the weight then come from the tip itself? and if I trimmed back a 6wt. line would it be too light to load easily? if anybody can help please reply I just know $10.00 either way is worth it I have a new S.A. catalog and do not see the old lines anymore and have never had an older catalog so I am not famaliar w/ this product. Thanks…

Response:

My WF4F line is a $10 SA from kmart. nice dull green color, handles well. I like it. There’s the chance it will wear out sooner than a high dollar line, but at $10, just get another one! Since a WF line has most of its weight at the sharp end, cutting 5′ of the sinking section off should have a noticeable effect on how it casts, plus, you will lose the tapered section. But, if you feel like experimenting, all you are risking is $10. Personally, I would leave it as is, at least for the time being. Charlie Quinton Laramie, Wyo.

Response:

Good Deal. I have used the same line for a couple of seasons in 6& 8 wt. (but I don’t use sink tips all that much anyway)  It is shorter than I’m use to … About 85 ft  I think.  I have found it easy casting and long casting.  It is much better than some Cortland sink tips I’ve used.   I think I purchased the lines for about $20 a few years back on a closeout and they are worth every penny! I use the same wt line as the rod and I think I have cut one of these lines back to 8′ with no problem.  If the line is like mine it is a fairly slow sink tip (although the box states fast 1.50"-2" per second) and doesn’t overload the way some of the other sink tips do.  I suspect the sinking portion on this line is accomplished more by it’s small tip diameter than extra weight. I use SA Mastery Bonefish lines mostly but this line is quite similar to SA Ultra with regard to stiffness and feel.  It also works fine in cold weather with little memory. I wish our Kmart’s carried the stuff.  My good find lately was at a Wal-Mart.  2mm Neoprene socks for $8 and 2mm neoprene gloves w/ finger cutouts for $9—-Hunting Dept. Tip:  Try a very short leader with the sink tip (12" then 18" tippet)  It will cast better,the fly will sink better, and the fish don’t seem mind. Good Fishing

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, I recently was in my local K-Mart and checked out the fishing section, while I would find little use in ,most of the products they sell I did find what I precieve to be a bargain. I found Scientific Anglers AirCel Supreme2  WF-6 and-7-  F/S  wet tip III lines for $10.00 each, the orignal price was $36.00 so I picked up two 7wts. and one 6wt. My questions are has anybody used this line in the sink tip much, I have never used a sink tip and if it would be better to have a top of the line (line) I would use the three I have to trade w/friends and purchase a higher quality line. Does this line have a stiff finish (AirCell)  also my last question is about what line wt. to use, I have a fast 6.wt. and the directions say to use a line wt. heavier if you want to trim the 10ft. tip into say a 6ft. I find a floater is just fine for the majority of my fishing but there are times when a sink tip would be good, Does the weight then come from the tip itself? and if I trimmed back a 6wt. line would it be too light to load easily? if anybody can help please reply I just know $10.00 either way is worth it I have a new S.A. catalog and do not see the old lines anymore and have never had an older catalog so I am not famaliar w/ this product. Thanks…

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Question:

I’ll be in the Denver area next weekend and have 1 day free for some fly fishing.  Any suggestions on where to go this time of year? Don

Hi Don, Denver sits on the banks of Lake Norman. It’s a lake full of specs, bass, catfish, and panfish. The Catawba river flows into it and out of it through a dam. It’s a great place to fish and relax here in the NC piedmont. It does get hot as hell in the summer though. Ooops, oh, that Denver……sorry, Waldo…to damn early in the am.

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I’ll be in the Denver area next weekend and have 1 day free for some fly fishing.  Any suggestions on where to go this time of year? Don

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Question:

I have time available for a one day & camping overnight stay in the Lake Placid area of up state New York. I intend to fly fish the whole day and camp that night.  Can anyone help we with the following: 1 – Where to fish on the Ausable since it sounds like that is the place of choice.  If not, other locations to fish but they must be relatively close to Lake Placid.   2.  Where to get and how much a one day license will cost. 3.  Where I may be able to find a primative campsite location – preferably near where I would be fishing.. Thank you in advance – I’ll let you know how I did! — David A. Laatz Information Systems Counsulting Group, Inc. 704 S. Wenonah ave. Oak Park, Il 60304-1034 Phone – 708.445.0396

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I have time available for a one day & camping overnight stay in the Lake Placid area of up state New York. I intend to fly fish the whole day and camp that night.  Can anyone help we with the following: 1 – Where to fish on the Ausable since it sounds like that is the place of choice.  If not, other locations to fish but they must be relatively close to Lake Placid.   3.  Where I may be able to find a primative campsite location – preferably

Head for Wilmington (actually on the river, 10 or 12 miles from Lake Placid.)  The Wilmington Notch state campsite may still be open (but there is frost at night by now) — "primitive" meaning cold water.  Camping is allowed only at organized and plumbed campsites.  Information can be got at Fran Betters fly shop on Hwy. 86 at the west end of Wilmington or Jones’ Outfitters on Main St., Lake Placid. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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Question:

For Immediate Release Announcing the Boca Grande Fly fishing School’s November Session Where:  Uncle Henry’s Marina Resort in Boca Grande, Fl When:  November 14 thru 16, 1997 Levels of Experience: all levels, novice thru expert Class Size: max. 12 Instructors:  3 Theme:  "Learn to Fly Fish, not just Fly Cast" Special Features:       1. Actual fishing with your instructors                         2. All instructors present at all times                         3. Minimum classroom time                         4. Instructional text book                         5. Finest Sage rods                         6. Saturday evening Bar-B-Que Includes:       1. All tackle                 2. Fishing license                 3. Lunch and refreshments                 4. Guided fishing with your instructor What to bring: hat, sunglasses, sunscreen, rain jacket, and a Sense of Humor Cost: $495.00 per angler (Family Rates available) Contact: Capt.. Pete Greenan 1-941-923-6095 or http://www.floridaflyfishing.com/FFSchools.html — http://www.floridaflyfishing.com

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For Immediate Release Announcing the Boca Grande Fly fishing School’s November Session Where:  Uncle Henry’s Marina Resort in Boca Grande, Fl When:  November 14 thru 16, 1997 Levels of Experience: all levels, novice thru expert Class Size: max. 12 Instructors:  3 Theme:  "Learn to Fly Fish, not just Fly Cast" Special Features:       1. Actual fishing with your instructors 2. All instructors present at all times                         3. Minimum classroom time                         4. Instructional text book                         5. Finest Sage rods                         6. Saturday evening Bar-B-Que Includes:       1. All tackle                 2. Fishing license                 3. Lunch and refreshments                 4. Guided fishing with your instructor What to bring: hat, sunglasses, sunscreen, rain jacket, and a Sense of Humor Cost: $495.00 per angler (Family Rates available) Contact: Capt.. Pete Greenan 1-941-923-6095 or http://www.floridaflyfishing.com/FFSchools.html — http://www.floridaflyfishing.com

OK Tim, this is an ad so I consider it fair game!   — William J. Hobson, CNE,CNA Network and Computing Support Services Texas Engineering Experiment Station Phone: (409) 845-5808

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PLEASE EVERY BODY dont wast your money on this, if you want real advise book a charter boat captian, they’ll teach you how to do all that with PRIVATE instruction and are usually CHEAPER. Here is one I know http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/toccoa/Default.htm#Captain -Paradoxal – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For Immediate Release Announcing the Boca Grande Fly fishing School’s November Session Where:  Uncle Henry’s Marina Resort in Boca Grande, Fl When:  November 14 thru 16, 1997 Levels of Experience: all levels, novice thru expert Class Size: max. 12 Instructors:  3 Theme:  "Learn to Fly Fish, not just Fly Cast" Special Features:       1. Actual fishing with your instructors 2. All instructors present at all times                         3. Minimum classroom time                         4. Instructional text book                         5. Finest Sage rods                         6. Saturday evening Bar-B-Que Includes:       1. All tackle                 2. Fishing license                 3. Lunch and refreshments                 4. Guided fishing with your instructor What to bring: hat, sunglasses, sunscreen, rain jacket, and a Sense of Humor Cost: $495.00 per angler (Family Rates available) Contact: Capt.. Pete Greenan 1-941-923-6095 or http://www.floridaflyfishing.com/FFSchools.html — http://www.floridaflyfishing.com

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This month’s cover kit comprises a miniature rose sampler kit with wooden frame. p6 Cross Stitch World: news and giveaways p8 A Place in the Country: a picture of a thatched cottage with a profusion of flowers around it designed by Sheila Hudson. (28hpi jobelan; stitch count: 110 high x 140 wide). (All charts in black and white) (See Cool and Simple below) p12 Heart Sampler: lovely pastel sampler using white cotton perle for depth and texture, designed by Christine Ann Martin ( 32hpi jobelan, some beading, wildflowers threads, 218 high x 166 wide; kit available by mail order). p19 Your Letters p20 A Royal Romance: lovely carousel horses – Guinevere and Lancelot – designed by Sue Cook (28hpi evenweave, essential because of large use of fractional stitches, use of Anchor marlitt, Kreinlitt blending filament, Mill Hill beads and charms, tassels and couching; 135high x 100 wide). p26 The Perfect Figurine: article about Royal Doulton with address for cross stitch kit tie-ins. p29 Poppy Cushion: dramatic cushion design by Sue Page (28 hpi jobelan, 129highx129 wide). p32 In the Swim: kit reviews with a fish theme: Fisherman and his Catch by Eva Rosenstand; Fly Fishing by Heritage; Orca Trio by Cross My Heart Inc; and Fishing Sampler by Anchor (Penelope). p34 Classic Collection: a selection of Thank You cards by Debra Page. p39 Out of the Blue: last of the white on blue floral designs by Lesley Brankin to complete the cushion or to use separately. (28hpi evenweave; 133 high x 109 wide – 4 of the flowers plus border; kit available). p42 The Circus, Bath: the delightful Georgian terrace, composed by Christine Sylvester of Abacus Designs (14hpi aida; 74 high x 123 wide). p47 A Chart for Baby: chart reviews with a baby theme. p48 Cool and Simple: A lovely 3-panel sampler by Sue Page (28 hpi jobelan; use of satin stitch, Algerian Eyes, Eyelets and Diamond eyelets, which are all explained; kit available, although it is not mentioned in the mail order section but a kit for the Summer Cottage, see above, is). p54 Fragrant Stitches: round trinket box lid (designer not attributed) of dog roses and rose hips (32hpi evenweave in dark green, 51 high x 49 wide) p60 Do not disturb: door name plates for kids, again not attributed, full alphabet given (14hpi aida; 24 high x 130 wide). NEXT MONTH: lovely rose and lilies firescreen project, Golden Sun Angel, striking Barn Owl and Autumn Sampler. Free floral card kit plus 3 illustrated cards and envelopes. Dianne

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How does one subscribe to this publication? thanks, Angie who can never have enought XS mags.

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How does one subscribe to this publication? thanks, Angie who can never have enought XS mags.

Hi Angie, If you buy any of the x-stitch magazines there is a card or a page which you can fill in and send back to the publisher. Yours in Stitching Sharon ****** — Sharon D Ward http://www.danesholme.demon.co.uk

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Question:

I am planning a trip to Mayville WI. sometime in the spring or summer. I want to do a little flyfishing need a little help on where to go in the area. Mayville is due south of Fond du Lac maybe 20 miles and west of Hywy 41 by about 10 or so. I havent been there for 30 years but want to combine a trip to visit relatives with some fishing. I live in Seattle and do mostly lake fishing here and I want to do river or stream fishing back there. Any suggestions?

Martin:         You might want to indicate what kind of fishing you are interested in. For steelhead/salmon on Lake Michigan’s tribs, or inland? Warmwater or cold? How far you willing to travel? tgb

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Try this site: — http://www.execpc.com/~glsfc/fish_wi

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am planning a trip to Mayville WI. sometime in the spring or summer. I want to do a little flyfishing need a little help on where to go in the area. Mayville is due south of Fond du Lac maybe 20 miles and west of Hywy 41 by about 10 or so. I havent been there for 30 years but want to combine a trip to visit relatives with some fishing. I live in Seattle and do mostly lake fishing here and I want to do river or stream fishing back there. Any suggestions? Martin:         You might want to indicate what kind of fishing you are interested in. For steelhead/salmon on Lake Michigan’s tribs, or inland? Warmwater or cold? How far you willing to travel? tgb

My fishing is for small fish. Hopefully trout but bass or blugill would be OK. I am going to use a 8 ft. 5 wt. fly rod. I would really like to do only streams as that is what I want to learn. I will have to rent a car there so a hours drive would be just perfect. 2 hours would be pushing it but possible if the reward was there. Thanks for the suggestion.

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I am planning a trip to Mayville WI. sometime in the spring or summer. I want to do a little flyfishing need a little help on where to go in the area. Mayville is due south of Fond du Lac maybe 20 miles and west of Hywy 41 by about 10 or so. I havent been there for 30 years but want to combine a trip to visit relatives with some fishing. I live in Seattle and do mostly lake fishing here and I want to do river or stream fishing back there… My fishing is for small fish. Hopefully trout but bass or blugill would be OK. I am going to use a 8 ft. 5 wt. fly rod. I would really like to do only streams as that is what I want to learn. I will have to rent a car there so a hours drive would be just perfect. 2 hours would be pushing it but possible if the reward was there.

Martin:         Let me do a little thinking and map looking and I’ll get back to you. I’m not in that area but know of it and might be able to help. A couple of nice streams suggest themselves right off but I’d rather try to look first and advise later rather than mucking things up the other way around.         You know one of the problems with doing what you are thinking of doing can be best realized by imagining a guy coming to your area and trying to have a good time of it without a scintilla of the hard-won experience you’ve got as to where to go, when, using what equipment, flies, etc., etc. I.e., it might make sense to think about getting a guide if you can swing the dough? Even if only for a 1/2 day (if they go along with same); sometimes they can turn you on to just enough that you can take it from there.         But I’ll get back to you with what I can dig up about the area you’ll be visiting in any case. Tom Burczyk The workings of great institutions is mainly the result of a vast mass of routine, petty malice, self-interest, carelessness, and sheer mistake. Only a residual fraction is thought." Santayana

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I am planning a trip to Mayville WI. sometime in the spring or summer. I want to do a little flyfishing need a little help on where to go in the area. Mayville is due south of Fond du Lac maybe 20 miles and west of Hywy 41 by about 10 or so. I havent been there for 30 years but want to combine a trip to visit relatives with some fishing. I live in Seattle and do mostly lake fishing here and I want to do river or stream fishing back there. Any suggestions? Martin — Martin Jensen

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Question:

we usually catch at least twenty big Browns (2-4 lbs) in an hour or so.

Curtis, I must have missed your first message where you gave the name of thr river you were fishing.  Just post it to me on private E-mail, we don’t want to bother all of the fishermen on this group with small talk. Ernie Harrison

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Fishing spawning beds ??? I dont know nuffink about the case in question guv, but fishing a spawning bed just does not seem to be a done thing old chap

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I think that’s a good assessment of the situation.  Thanks.

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I remember reading an article in either Trout or Fly Fisherman of a study that looked at the effect of wading across spawning beds on egg mortality. I don’t recall exact numbers, but more than 75% of the eggs were squashed in the study setting. Sounds like besides stressing this year’s fish, you are also impacting several years of fish classes.

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I remember reading an article in either Trout or Fly Fisherman of a study that looked at the effect of wading across spawning beds on egg mortality. I don’t recall exact numbers, but more than 75% of the eggs were squashed in the study setting. Sounds like besides stressing this year’s fish, you are also impacting several years of fish classes.

 Ditto!,   Flyfishing affords us the chance to think before we act..IF we choose to. sd

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Now that the Browns are spawning, I have been fishing the spawning beds quite heavily lately on our local river and have been wondering what effect it has on the spawing fish.  I’ve heard that if you’re careful where you step, the actual catching of the fish doesn’t have too much of an effect on them.  To give you an idea of what its like, we usually catch at least twenty big Browns (2-4 lbs) in an hour or so.  I would appreciate any comments or experience anyone might have.

  Curtis, think REAL hard now….does anyone go through your bed with corks on? Not  the best place to hook fish.   Harry

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writes: I would imagine that since fishing is allowed on this stream during the spawning period that the local biologists are not terribly worried about population level effects, either because the stream is heavilly stocked or there are adequate numbers of trout and spawning areas to compensate for the fish which are not able to complete spawning because of being caught.

I think that the Fish and Game departments are less concerned about numbers of fish and more interested in revenues. For a lot of people, the spawning periods and fishing on the beds are the only time that they can catch large numbers of fish on a lot of the heavily pressured rivers. The Wildlife Resource guys smile upon this because the happier their anglers are, the more liscenses they sell; the more liscenses they sell, the more money they make for their management needs. The problem with this is that resource management seems to be entirely about budgets rather than sensibility. Why protect a wild strain when you can make a bunch of money to stock the depleted river with hatchery fish the next year? One case which sticks out like a sore thumb is our local Provo River which has been so well advertised this year. Western Rivers Flyfisher {full service fly shop and outfitter} 867 East 900 South – SLC, UT 84105 (800)545-4312~~(801)521-6424~~fax(801)521-6329 Green River reports, Utah fishing conditions, and statewide guide info.

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As a non-scientist (but an avid angler) who follows this issue closely here in PA, I think Mark is dead on the money in his assessment…… Each individual stream is very much a situation unto itself in terms of population dynamics, recriutment, natural mortality, etc….  If wild trout in a freestone stream have a 40-70 percent annual natural mortality regardless of angling pressure, as I have read, then the effect of issues like catching and releasing spawning fish may be masked and indiscernable to the average angler from season to season……. However, in heavily pressured fisheries, I suppose every little bit hurts.   Additionally, it occurs to me that our measurement of fish abundance as anglers  tends to tell us very little in many cases…Here in PA, the prevailing management  strategy removes BT streams from the stocking list when they exceed a biomass of about 40 lb/surface acre of water.  Some of our better freestones hold in the 75-95 lb/acre range fairly consistently.  Now, if because of drought, flood, predation or fishing over spawners, stream A goes from 85 lb/acre last year to 60 lb/acre this year, do you think as anglers we would be able to tell the difference when we fished the stream?  60 lb/acre is still a lot of trout.  So the difference is kinda like waking up in the morning and finding 23 inches of snow on your car as opposed to 19 inches.  Either one is more than enough snow…  It’s all very subjective in my view….      

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Now that the Browns are spawning, I have been fishing the spawning beds quite heavily lately on our local river and have been wondering what effect it has on the spawing fish.  I’ve heard that if you’re careful where you step, the actual catching of the fish doesn’t have too much of an effect on them.  To give you an idea of what its like, we usually catch at least twenty big Browns (2-4 lbs) in an hour or so.  I would appreciate any comments or experience anyone might have.<<<<

The reproductive cycle, from the production of gonads thru the actual act of spawning, takes up a tremendous amount of energy for a trout.  In fact many trout will die within weeks of spawning.  The added stress of being caught and fought to the point of exhaustion probably increases that fishes chance of dieing within a few weeks.  Also that fish may not have enough left in it after the fight to finish spawning, therefore no prodigy will be spawned from that individual this year.  If ther is enough trout and enough prime spawning areas  in the stream to compensate for the fish which are not spawning because of being caught, then compensatory reproduction and survival of young should help to prevent  any noticible population level effects.  If, however, either there is so much fishing pressure, or so little adequate spawning areas for these fish then you could be having profound impacts on the population (or actually the future population) in this stream.  I would imagine that since fishing is allowed on this stream during the spawning period that the local biologists are not terribly worried about population level effects, either because the stream is heavilly stocked or there are adequate numbers of trout and spawning areas to compensate for the fish which are not able to complete spawning because of being caught.  it is worry some to me anyway that someone can catch "at least twenty fish in an hour".  This sounds to me like this spawning population is big time vunerable to anglers. But on the other hand if so many fish are available and this type of fishing has been common in th past then one could conclude that the population seems able to compensate for the increased mortality of spawning fish due to being caught.It is imporatnt to note that no two streams are alike and what may be fine on one stream could be devestating to the next.  Just my two cents anyway. Mark Arrigo SUNY College of Environmental Science and Forestry Syracuse, NY

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