Question:

BTW: why don’t trout eat those skittery little black bugs that hang out near shore and in eddies? I read somewhere that they emit a mild toxin into the water which repels the fish.  They hang out in groups because then there is a higher concentration of the toxin, providing a higher level of safety.

Oh, she’s talking about water striders! I thought she was talking about midges. Kevin’s right. Water striders are toxic. I remember last year at the San Juan Clave there were lots of midges in the eddies and other slackwater, but the fish were ignoring them. I wondered why, and still do. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

BTW: why don’t trout eat those skittery little black bugs that hang out near shore and in eddies? I read somewhere that they emit a mild toxin into the water which repels the fish.  They hang out in groups because then there is a higher concentration of the toxin, providing a higher level of safety.

Thank you.  That sounds right.  I know they’re not fast, as I’ve always been easily able to hand catch one.   — rbc:  vixen    Fairly harmless remove invalid or hit reply to email. Though I’m very slow to respond. http://www.visi.com/~cyli

Response:

BTW: why don’t trout eat those skittery little black bugs that hang out near shore and in eddies?  

I understood that these were just not a favorite food of trout…being that they’re as hard as peanuts.  In NJ, those and skating spiders are not eaten by trout in any waters that I know of.

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One of the first hurdles a beginer needs to clear is to learn how to present a fly on a dead drift. It’s a very important skill but how often is it necessary or even desirable?

I’m loving trying to do it for drys or surface lures, but I can’t bring myself to feel that anything but a really dead bug will drift fairly freely, and even that bug will bounce into and off of things, including the bottom if using an under surface fly / lure. BTW: why don’t trout eat those skittery little black bugs that hang out near shore and in eddies?  I don’t see them much in water where other varieties of decent sized game fish are around or else they stay so shallow that nothing big can get them.  Is it the Monarch butterfly sort of thing in the water? — rbc:  vixen    Fairly harmless remove invalid or hit reply to email. Though I’m very slow to respond. http://www.visi.com/~cyli

Response:

One of the first hurdles a beginer needs to clear is to learn how to present a fly on a dead drift. It’s a very important skill but how often is it necessary or even desirable? I’m loving trying to do it for drys or surface lures, but I can’t bring myself to feel that anything but a really dead bug will drift fairly freely, and even that bug will bounce into and off of things, including the bottom if using an under surface fly / lure.

I kind of hate to post this, because I’m such a "fucking putz" at presenting nymphs compared to people like Willi and Bruce, but here’s my understanding of the theory. There’s something called the "turnover point." When you cast your nymph out, in the normal scheme of things, you should try to get your indicator upstream of the nymph. The current on the surface carries the indicator downstream faster than the deep-drifting nymph. Upstream mends can help, but you risk pulling the fly right out of the trouts’ mouths. There is a point — the "turnover" point — when the nymph is just below the indicator. This is when it’s doing its best rendition of a "dead drift." If you know where the fish are, try to make that the turnover point. BTW: why don’t trout eat those skittery little black bugs that hang out near shore and in eddies?  I don’t see them much in water where other varieties of decent sized game fish are around or else they stay so shallow that nothing big can get them.  Is it the Monarch butterfly sort of thing in the water?

Good question. I think it’s because trout are wary. They don’t want to expose themselves to predators in shallow water when there’s plenty of stuff to eat in safer places. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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There is a point — the "turnover" point — when the nymph is just below the indicator. This is when it’s doing its best rendition of a "dead drift." If you know where the fish are, try to make that the turnover

point. According to Borger, the indicator is more of a drift indicator than strike indicator.  He says if your indicator is drifting as fast as the surface current and your nymph is near the bottom, your nymph is probably dragging. A split shot will help slow it down.  I suppose this would be past the "turnover point" you describe.

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According to Borger, the indicator is more of a drift indicator than strike indicator.  He says if your indicator is drifting as fast as the surface current and your nymph is near the bottom, your nymph is probably dragging. A split shot will help slow it down.  I suppose this would be past the "turnover point" you describe.

Even using the most thought out or "best" combination of weight, leader length etc. there will usually only be a small portion of your drift where the fly is truly approaching a dragfree drift. Like Steve said, you want to try and have this "good" part of the drift in the area that you think holds fish. The deeper the water, overall, the more pronounced this is. You can get more instances of a dragfree drift through mending, but because of the varied currents, it impossible to get a dragfree drift throughout the drift. It’s often difficult to get a dragfree drift with a dry fly. With a dry you can see what’s going on and with a dry, you’re essentially only dealing with a flat plane or two dimensions. With a sunken nymph, in most situations, you have to make inferences about what’s going on with your fly and you’re dealing with three dimensions. MUCH more difficult but fortunately for us, I think the fish are more tolerant of drag with a nymph. Willi

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BTW: why don’t trout eat those skittery little black bugs that hang out near shore and in eddies?

Probably because they are too difficult for the trout to catch. They would experience a net loss in calories because of the energy expended in trying to catch them. Game fish are instinctively aware of the energy/food value relationship, and tend to feed accordingly. George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

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With a sunken nymph, in most situations, you have to make inferences about what’s going on with your fly and you’re dealing with three dimensions. MUCH more difficult but fortunately for us, I think the fish are more tolerant of drag with a nymph.

        and i suspect that this is because many of the insects we are attempting to imitate with nymphs are alive, and move upwards and from side to side as they attempt to reach the surface, as opposed to the nearly motionless float of duns and spinners. wayno (lifelong reader of field&stream)

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BTW: why don’t trout eat those skittery little black bugs that hang out near shore and in eddies?

I read somewhere that they emit a mild toxin into the water which repels the fish.  They hang out in groups because then there is a higher concentration of the toxin, providing a higher level of safety. Kevin — Check out the Pike Clave Website: <http://www.misu.nodak.edu/~vang/PikeClave/

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What percentage of fish do you take during a "dragfree" drift for: Dries       95% Nymphs       95% Wets       40% Streamers      10% Your percentage for nymphs is surprising to me.  Do you usually let them swing across at the end of the dragfree part of the drift?  I take many fish on nymphs, especially BH PTs, on the rising part of the swing–almost as many as when I fish traditional wets (soft hackles, etc.) this way.

    What I really meant to say was, 95% of the time I nymph I *really* try for a dead drift. The other 5% of the time is when I’m moving (stumbling) upstream, dragging the thing behind me, and some inconsiderate trout bites it.

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Willi asks: What percentage of fish do you take during a "dragfree" drift for:

 Dries (over 90)  Nymphs ( not sure, probably most; 75?)  Wets (less than 10)  Streamers (less than 5) — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyoming

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What percentage of fish do you take during a "dragfree" drift for: Dries Nymphs Wets Streamers My estimates: Dries: 90 Nymphs: 80 Wets: 50 Streamers: 20

Dries: definitely in the 90+% range during most mayfly hatches. During stonefly hatches, however, or even when I fish a hopper during terrestrial season, I twitch my fly when it’s drifting. Granted, I attempt for it to be subtle, and only a movement every couple of feet or so, but a lot of the hits come right at the twitch. Nymphs: I’d like to think that ALL my fish hit during drag free drift but I think that’s impossible to do all the time. I’d rank it there around 75%. Wets: When I fish them, which isn’t that often, they are moving for sure. 25%. Streamers: Practically all my fish come during the strip or the swing. I do pick up fish occasionally during a drag-free drift but I don’t fish a streamer that often that way. 10% — Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

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Dries: definitely in the 90+% range during most mayfly hatches. During stonefly hatches, however, or even when I fish a hopper during terrestrial season, I twitch my fly when it’s drifting. Granted, I attempt for it to be subtle, and only a movement every couple of feet or so, but a lot of the hits come right at the twitch.

I concur with this. Another "action" technique I especially like is skittering a caddis imitation through shallow, pocket water. Not sure if it is more effective than just a drag free drift but it sure produces some exciting takes. Streamers: Practically all my fish come during the strip or the swing. I do pick up fish occasionally during a drag-free drift but I don’t fish a streamer that often that way. 10%

I’m not a very able streamer fisherman but I frequently cast up and across with a streamer and let it drift down pretty much drag free to allow it to sink. I have taken some fish during this "drag free" part of the drift. Peter? Willi

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Dries: definitely in the 90+% range during most mayfly hatches. During stonefly hatches, however, or even when I fish a hopper during terrestrial season, I twitch my fly when it’s drifting. Granted, I attempt for it to be subtle, and only a movement every couple of feet or so, but a lot of the hits come right at the twitch. I concur with this. Another "action" technique I especially like is skittering a caddis imitation through shallow, pocket water. Not sure if it is more effective than just a drag free drift but it sure produces some exciting takes.

A very fun hatch on the Clark Fork is a #14 olive caddis, a ‘green rock worm’, IIRC. A free-living caddis. Use a LaFontaine-style (God rest his soul) emerging caddis fished just under the surface film down and across or just straight down. If the fly is making a ‘V’ they don’t seem to want it. But if you get it to still be twitching & dragging, literally just under the surface, they wack it pretty hard. There is a particular hole on the CF that really can only best be fished with an almost straight down approach with this method, but right at dusk on a mid-July evening… oh boy! Streamers: Practically all my fish come during the strip or the swing. I do pick up fish occasionally during a drag-free drift but I don’t fish a streamer that often that way. 10% I’m not a very able streamer fisherman but I frequently cast up and across with a streamer and let it drift down pretty much drag free to allow it to sink. I have taken some fish during this "drag free" part of the drift. Peter?

I must amend to my streamer statement above that most of my streamer fishing is done from a boat. With a good oarsman at the helm, you can get some amazingly good presentations that can cover a lot of good water. — Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dries: definitely in the 90+% range during most mayfly hatches. During stonefly hatches, however, or even when I fish a hopper during terrestrial season, I twitch my fly when it’s drifting. Granted, I attempt for it to be subtle, and only a movement every couple of feet or so, but a lot of the hits come right at the twitch. I concur with this. Another "action" technique I especially like is skittering a caddis imitation through shallow, pocket water. Not sure if it is more effective than just a drag free drift but it sure produces some exciting takes. Streamers: Practically all my fish come during the strip or the swing. I do pick up fish occasionally during a drag-free drift but I don’t fish a streamer that often that way. 10% I’m not a very able streamer fisherman but I frequently cast up and across with a streamer and let it drift down pretty much drag free to allow it to sink. I have taken some fish during this "drag free" part of the drift. Peter? Willi

I rarely fish streamers on the dead drift though it can be a useful imitation of a dead or dying minnow with the right pattern.  I tried one day for steelhead using a small, weighted streamer on the dead drift and ended up with a bunch of bugle trout.  They obviously feed on the dead.  I’ve also had carp and smallies suck in streamers when I’ve been counting the fly down on the sink, while fishing in still water. I know that you know this Willi, but as a general comment  . . . About drag for dries, nymphs, and wets – I try to get the situation right for the insect that’s active.  One example – on Whiteman’s Creek, it was Hendrickson time but there was nothing in the air.  I was dead drifting a H. nymph by a log jam in fairly deep water and was batting a fat zero.  Then I remembered that Hendrickson nymphs migrate to shallow, slow water to hatch.  I was standing on the inside of a bend in shallow, slow water so I slowly retrieved my H. nymph along the bottom toward me and picked up a 12" rainbow on the first try.  A few more casts picked up some more fish.   Some mayfly nymphs and caddis pupae are very active swimmers and some mayfly emergers change into adult form a foot or so below the surface before swimming up with their wings (e.g. Dark Hendricksons.)  Many caddis do the same and with some species, the gas they generate causes them to rocket up.  As caddis have micro hairs on their wings they can fly off immediately on emergence whereas mayflies usually need to dry their wings first resulting in lots of fluttering.  Some caddis skitter across the surface before flying off and a few stillwater caddis will skate on the surface all the way to the shore.  When egg laying, some caddis and mayflies dap their eggs on the surface while other caddis and mayflies dive, penetrating the meniscus and laying their eggs on the bottom before swimming back up and flying off (or dying in the mayfly case.)  Small trout will often leap out of the water after dapping egg layers while others actively chase the divers. None of this behaviour can be imitated by a dead drift. Moral:  Know the behaviour of the bug.  Drag is not always your enemy – especially when it’s deliberate. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

One of the first hurdles a beginer needs to clear is to learn how to present a fly on a dead drift. It’s a very important skill but how often is it necessary or even desirable? What percentage of fish do you take during a "dragfree" drift for: Dries Nymphs Wets Streamers My estimates: Dries: 90 Nymphs: 80 Wets: 50 Streamers: 20 Willi

Response:

One of the first hurdles a beginer needs to clear is to learn how to present a fly on a dead drift. It’s a very important skill but how often is it necessary or even desirable? What percentage of fish do you take during a "dragfree" drift for: Dries … My estimates: Dries: 90

When people talk about "educated" fish, I think recognizing a dragfree drift is the piscine equivalent of the PhD. I also think it’s highly dependent on the particular watershed. Some places, relatively sterile mountain streams for instance, you can catch a fish with just about any sort of drift at all. On a heavily fished spring creek I’d say that the percentage of fish I take with a dragfree drift is for all intents and purposes 100%. — Ken Fortenberry

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One of the first hurdles a beginer needs to clear is to learn how to present a fly on a dead drift. It’s a very important skill but how often is it necessary or even desirable?

Well, IMO, the term "drag free" drift is the wrong term to use for _teaching_ beginners, although _presenting_ in such fashion, is, to me, different than _fishing_ a fly, even if the take occurs within a second or two of presentation.  What is important as to _fishing_ is to not appear so unnatural as to either confuse, and therefore, "spook," a fish or simply telegraph that an offering isn’t food. Granted, this often means no unnatural drag, which is often "drag free" and likely, most experienced fishers know this and use the term "drag free" as a catch-all term.  But I think it does beginners a disservice to teach absolutes (take "the wrist must always be locked or you are casting improperly" training many get, for example) as being an absolute success/failure type of situation. What percentage of fish do you take during a "dragfree" drift for: My estimates: Dries: 90 Nymphs: 80 Wets: 50 Streamers: 20

Hmm…I thought a little about it, and I can’t come up with any numbers beyond mere WAGs.  Maybe to my detriment, I don’t seem to take note of this type of data in such a way to be able to quantify it. I’m not suggesting that doing so is improper, just that I don’t.  Or maybe I do take subconscious note, but it has become one of those "I don’t know why I do it that way, I just do" things.   But if forced to make a WAG, I’d say dries, about like your number, wets, about 80-90, and streamers, upwards of 0, but less than 10 <G (simply due to the way I <mostly fish streamers, they wouldn’t be doing much "drifting," drag-free or otherwise, as I take your meaning of "drifting.") TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Willi

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One of the first hurdles a beginer needs to clear is to learn how to present a fly on a dead drift. It’s a very important skill but how often is it necessary or even desirable? What percentage of fish do you take during a "dragfree" drift for: Dries  

have to say 99%  Worked dries are a minor tactic for me. Nymphs  

couldn’t possibly tell with the deep nymphs, but certainly to shallow sighted fish 100% Wets

70% Streamers

10% Steve

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What percentage of fish do you take during a "dragfree" drift for: Dries       95% Nymphs       95% Wets       40% Streamers

     10%

Response:

What percentage of fish do you take during a "dragfree" drift for: Dries       95% Nymphs       95% Wets       40% Streamers      10%

Your percentage for nymphs is surprising to me.  Do you usually let them swing across at the end of the dragfree part of the drift?  I take many fish on nymphs, especially BH PTs, on the rising part of the swing–almost as many as when I fish traditional wets (soft hackles, etc.) this way.   JR

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One of the first hurdles a beginer needs to clear is to learn how to present a fly on a dead drift. It’s a very important skill but how often is it necessary or even desirable? My estimates: Nymphs: 80

The more I think about nymphing, the harder it is to believe that a drag free drift happens very often.  Think how difficult it can be with dry flies – in 2 dimensions.  Nymphing is in 3 dimensions, so the problems you have with a dry fly drift are magnified.  Finally, add in the fact that the water slows near the bottom of the river where we often fish nymphs, and it’s a wonder we ever catch a fish. I conclude 2 things: – we are not always getting a drag free drift, but many nymphs do move around under water under their own power.  Sometimes drag simulates this. – there are so many swirling currents in "mixed water" (near bottom rocks and obstructions), that even the trout can’t always detect drag underwater.  Even natural nymphs move in randomly changing ways in some of the "micro currents". There must be places where the flow is constant and trout can detect drag, but there must be places where it’s not, too.  You can probably convince yourself of this by tossing little things into turbulent water several times and watching how they drift differently each time.

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One of the first hurdles a beginer needs to clear is to learn how to present a fly on a dead drift. It’s a very important skill but how often is it necessary or even desirable?

An interesting question, and one I have no idea of the answer.   One thing RDean said tweaked my though process however, and I began thinking not in terms of drag, but time as measurement.   I’m actually amazed at how many of the fish I catch hit the fly within a couple seconds of it hitting the water.   That probably means I suck at drag free drift.   I’m also amazed at how fast the fish can get there.   Unless I’m dropping it right on his nose, those guys really cover some ground, so to speak.   On occasions where flows are simple enough, I do catch some farther down the drift, but generally if I don’t have a take in the first 5 sec., I’m not going to get one. Joe F.

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Question:

Hello: Re-stocking time. Still a few trees I haven’t fully decorated that I plan on attacking next spring. Anyone notice in any of the catalogs any place that offers Woolly Buggers tied Clouser style with metal eyes? Can’t seem to find in any catalog I presently have. Thanks, Bob

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello: Re-stocking time. Still a few trees I haven’t fully decorated that I plan on attacking next spring. Anyone notice in any of the catalogs any place that offers Woolly Buggers tied Clouser style with metal eyes? Can’t seem to find in any catalog I presently have. Thanks, Bob

can’t imagine they’d be all that hard to find.  most shops have the ability to get them from the multitude of wholesale fly producers now available.  it may take a little time, but i’m sure your local shop can get some for you. of course, a wooley bugger is about as easy to tie as any fly, and adding lead eyes is easy… also, many buggers are now being tied with coneheads instead of the lead-eyes. cb

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Hello: Re-stocking time. Still a few trees I haven’t fully decorated that I plan on attacking next spring. Anyone notice in any of the catalogs any place that offers Woolly Buggers tied Clouser style with metal eyes?

This is one of my favorite flys. I tie it in sizes from 12 up to 0/2. I like yellow body with white hackle. It’s a killer for big bass. It’s really too easy to tie to bother with buying it. You could tie enough for a season while watching the Simpson’s.

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cb said<<also, many buggers are now being tied with coneheads instead of the lead-eyes. The advantage to the lead-eyes (barrel) is that it makes the hook ride upside down making it more weedless.

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Bob – Are you wanting to buy some or just looking for a recipe? Gary – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hello: Re-stocking time. Still a few trees I haven’t fully decorated that I plan on attacking next spring. Anyone notice in any of the catalogs any place that offers Woolly Buggers tied Clouser style with metal eyes? Can’t seem to find in any catalog I presently have. Thanks, Bob

Gary Miller, Moderator To subscribe, send an e-mail to: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<)))}"Catch ‘em all…Put ‘em back!<"{(((<

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Question:

Hello all,   I’ll be moving to Tokyo for 6 months next year, and was wondering if anyone had any experiences flyfishing in Japan that they could share with me? Is it possible? Places to go, best shops, etc?   Any information is appreciated. –KDR Before you buy.

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You might like to have a look at : http://www.ozemail.com.au/~kamosida/indexeng.html TL MC — "If you have tried everything you know, and nothing works, then perhaps it is time to accept that you don

Question:

 Went up to the Housatonic in Connecticut this past weekend with a bunch of friends.At first we were all a little bummed out about the high water.I guess all the rain had brought the level way up.It was tough to wade and difficult to find all of the usual holding places.I had brought a sink tip line that I had purchased about three years ago and never had the occasion to use.I used a two foot leader and a black wooly bugger.On the second morning my buddy and I went to a long stretch that another friend had recommended,I think it was the "meat hole",where the water was slightly calmer.     I realized that with most of the structure hidden from view that I was not going to be able to fish in the way I was accustomed to.I remembered some advice that I’ve seen mentioned here and many other places that a good way to fish a large river is to break it down into a smaller section and deal with it the way you would fish a stream.I worked my way out about twenty feet from the shore and I began to work the bank and any pocket water that I encountered within the "stream"that I had picked out for myself.I was taking my time,relaxing,almost zen-like,and I was hammering smallies with the occasional brown.     Although it wasn’t like the phenomenal low water fishing of last year,I felt that the river had something to offer if one was willing to be openminded about the possibilities.How often do you get to fish for browns and smallies during the middle of the summer?    What lessons did I learn?What it feels like to freeze in a panic as you watch your friend bobbing like a cork in a whirlpool(he eventually gained his footing).Sometimes fish like drag:during the white fly hatch I was getting no takers until I started to skitter the fly.I am not invulnerable:I fell in several times,but fortunately I didn’t take on any water.Some of my friends wanted the water to be the way they expected and fished it accordingly.They didn’t have much luck and went home kind of pissed off.I had a great time and call me crazy but I really enjoyed all the challenges that the high water was throwing my way.I also have a pretty good idea now why it’s important to pack a wading stick and next time you better believe I’ll have one. Tight Lines All, Shawn

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This is the challange and satisfaction of fishing. It is why some people catch fish most all of the time, while others are shut down.  Great report. Mark Faulkner – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     I realized that with most of the structure hidden from view that I was not wanted the water to be the way they expected and fished it accordingly.They didn’t have much luck and went home kind of pissed off.I had a great time and call me crazy but I really enjoyed all the challenges that the high water was throwing my way.I also have a pretty good idea now why it’s important to pack a wading stick and next time you better believe I’ll have one. Tight Lines All, Shawn

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Question:

The 4th Court of Crim Appeals, SA,  has ordered a new trial on the grounds of "ineffective counsel."  It seems the defendant, accused of robbing a C-store, wore the same distinct shirt, with a picture of his dog, to voir dire, that he wore on the video, robbing the store, and his counsel’s failure to object was "i.c."

What a boob.   On the one hand, I don’t understand what is objectionable about it that leads to the i.c. basis.   I mean, the guy wore it volutarily and produced evidence "in plain sight".   No way even a competent defense attorney could have anticipated this.   (Apparently I didn’t learn much from the OJ trial.) OTOH, who’s to say he didn’t buy the shirt at Goodwill or find it in a dumpster. Can’t see how having the shirt months after the crime is much evidence (other than circumstantial) of anything.   If the police had found it in his posession the night of the crime, that’s one thing, but weeks or months later its trail is pretty stale IMHO. Also can’t swallow the "waste of tax dollars" assertion.   In a climate where so many are vocal about the government taking away our rights, isn’t it good to see a case where the government is protecting them?   Still, what a boob. Joe F.

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The 4th Court of Crim Appeals, SA,  has ordered a new trial on the grounds of "ineffective counsel."  It seems the defendant, accused of robbing a C-store, wore the same distinct shirt, with a picture of his dog, to voir dire, ___that he wore on the video___, robbing the store, and his

counsel’s failure to object was "i.c." What a boob.   On the one hand, I don’t understand what is objectionable about it that leads to the i.c. basis.   I mean, the guy wore it volutarily and produced evidence "in plain sight".   No way even a competent defense attorney could have anticipated this.   (Apparently I didn’t learn much from the OJ trial.)

One of my points, in general. OTOH, who’s to say he didn’t buy the shirt at Goodwill or find it in a dumpster. Can’t see how having the shirt months after the crime is much evidence (other than circumstantial) of anything.   If the police had found it in his posession the night of the crime, that’s one thing, but weeks or months later its trail is pretty stale IMHO.

Pretty unlucky find, I’d say:  A guy who looks exactly like the accused dumping off the shirt, and our hapless accused being unlucky enough to buy/find it.  From what I’ve heard, this is one of those, "I’m not saying I didn’t do it, I did it, I’m just saying it wasn’t ‘fair’." Plus, the police didn’t find it, he produced it.  What’s he going to say, Mark Furrmann(sp?) dressed him? Also can’t swallow the "waste of tax dollars" assertion.   In a climate where so many are vocal about the government taking away our rights, isn’t it good to see a case where the government is protecting them?   Still, what a boob.

No, this is a waste.  He was a) stupid enough to rob a store at gunpoint, for money, b) stupid enough to prove himself guilty (or is that guilty enough to prove himself stupid? – either way…) TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Joe F.

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(snip)  Besides, his lawyer probably *should* have told him how to dress as part of his job in this case, the guy wasn’t arrested for bitch slapping someone at a Mensa meeting, after all. — Charlie…

I don’t think bitch slapping at a Mensa meeting is a crime at all, Charlie. As to the case in question, I must cast my lot with the appeals court that reversed the conviction.  Whether it was intentional or unintentional, craftiness or stupidity, the essence of our system is that a trial in which a person’s liberty or life is at stake should be as fair as possible.  Hell, I think even the trial judge could have properly corrected this situation before it became a problem.  Someone mentioned this in a previous post, but in my mind most states are penny wise and pound foolish when it comes to assuring that all criminal defendants have competent counsel and related support for a defense.  Because it’s politically unpopular to provide such for indigent defendants, the resources are not allocated in the first instance; then, when the conviction is reversed the taxpayer pays all over again. Mark Faulkner

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(snip)  Besides, his lawyer probably *should* have told him how to dress as part of his job in this case, the guy wasn’t arrested for bitch slapping someone at a Mensa meeting, after all. — Charlie… I don’t think bitch slapping at a Mensa meeting is a crime at all, Charlie.

OK, so that part is simple reflex, but… As to the case in question, I must cast my lot with the appeals court that reversed the conviction.  Whether it was intentional or unintentional, craftiness or stupidity, the essence of our system is that a trial in which a person’s liberty or life is at stake should be as fair as possible.  Hell, I think even the trial judge could have properly corrected this situation before it became a problem.  Someone mentioned this in a previous post, but in my mind most states are penny wise and pound foolish when it comes to assuring that all criminal defendants have competent counsel and related support for a defense.  Because it’s politically unpopular to provide such for indigent defendants, the resources are not allocated in the first instance; then, when the conviction is reversed the taxpayer pays all over again.

What?  Do you truly believe this?  Why is it encumbering to the people of Texas to defend such a person?   While I believe in the 5th Amendment, what possible defense is there against a guilty person’s own stupidity?  The goal of the system is (or at least should be) the truth, and we have it, and the defendant willingly and openly provided evidence.  The adversarial system wasn’t compromised, no abuse took place, there is nothing to correct.  What exactly wasn’t "fair"?   CDAs argue when the accused is in jailwear, so he got to wear his own stuff. Seemingly, under this theory, testimony regarding the fact the gun was found at his home should be disallowed because his counsel was too ineffective to tell him to get rid of it. R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Mark Faulkner

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Shoot, Peter.  Somehow I can not see our esteemed roffian lawyers fishing with K-Mart blue light specials!  It is blaspheme, I tell ya…….  <g Louie, who don’t need to stinkin’ lawy…..errrrr.   Don’t wanna burn bridges here……

Our esteemed roffian lwayers would *never* make such an egregious error, maybe in their choice of fly or scotch perhaps, but never in a court room. Peter (sucking up big time)

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Shoot, Peter.  Somehow I can not see our esteemed roffian lawyers fishing with K-Mart blue light specials!  It is blaspheme, I tell ya…….  <g Louie, who don’t need to stinkin’ lawy…..errrrr.   Don’t wanna burn bridges here…… Our esteemed roffian lwayers would *never* make such an egregious error, maybe in their choice of fly or scotch perhaps, but never in a court room. Peter (sucking up big time)

You misspelled "laywayers"… <G R

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Our esteemed roffian lwayers

waylers, maybe? — Charlie…

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What’s he going to say, Mark Furrmann(sp?) dressed him? LOL.   YEAH! That’s it! No, this is a waste.  He was a) stupid enough to rob a store at gunpoint, for money, b) stupid enough to prove himself guilty (or is that guilty enough to prove himself stupid? – either way…) Well, I gotta think he was convicted on a lot more than this dumb shirt.   His picture on the camera & I assume the eyewitness testimony of the clerk. Possibly fingerprints or other physical evidence.   However, your points above seem a circular argument.   He’s guilty because he has the shirt, and the shirt shouldn’t matter because he’s guilty anyway.   Frankly the shirt sounds like a red herring.   If counsel was otherwise competent and the evidence was otherwise conclusive, it does seem a waste of resources; but the rights of the accused are paramount in our system (that’s why Wayno can afford a T&T or two).   I like it that way in general, even when a specific case makes it difficult to remember.

I’m not sure what you mean by red herring, but if you mean it is simply a guilty man’s way of taking another bite, I agree.  To me, it is like someone who confesses (uncoerced), and then tries to "legal" their way out of it.  Further, I think the rights of the accused are important, but this isn’t protecting his rights against or in an adversarial system, perfect or imperfect.  It isn’t even "self-incrimination" in the 5th Amendment sense.  This is excusing his own stupidity: he’s guilty, but he’s stupid, and his lawyer _may_ be ineffective, but let’s start over with "better" counsel.  The DA and cops didn’t dress him, trick him into wearing it, plant it on him, or anything else. R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Joe F.

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Our esteemed roffian lwayers waylers, maybe? — Charlie…

don’t I get any points fro getting ‘egregious’ right? jeez, this is a tough croud. Peter

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don’t I get any points fro getting ‘egregious’ right? jeez, this is a tough croud.

fro? <g — Charlie…

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don’t I get any points fro getting ‘egregious’ right? jeez, this is a tough croud. fro? <g — Charlie…

For the "stuck in the seventies" lwayers… <G R

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[snip] This is excusing his own stupidity: he’s guilty, but he’s stupid, and his lawyer _may_ be ineffective, but let’s start over with "better" counsel.  The DA and cops didn’t dress him, trick him into wearing it, plant it on him, or anything else.

I don’t disagree, but I’m not sure you can carry ‘presumed innocence’ too far. Besides, his lawyer probably *should* have told him how to dress as part of his job in this case, the guy wasn’t arrested for bitch slapping someone at a Mensa meeting, after all. — Charlie…

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Peter Charles: I don’t know what our angling lawyers may think of this idea, but perhaps it would be appropriate in cases where a gross error by an officer of the court resulted in a costly delay or mistrial, that officer had to personally foot the bill for at least a portion of the court costs.  Might make some of the inattentive sit up and pay attention. Peter

Shoot, Peter.  Somehow I can not see our esteemed roffian lawyers fishing with K-Mart blue light specials!  It is blaspheme, I tell ya…….  <g Louie, who don’t need to stinkin’ lawy…..errrrr.   Don’t wanna burn bridges here……

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What’s he going to say, Mark Furrmann(sp?) dressed him?

LOL.   YEAH! That’s it! No, this is a waste.  He was a) stupid enough to rob a store at gunpoint, for money, b) stupid enough to prove himself guilty (or is that guilty enough to prove himself stupid? – either way…)

Well, I gotta think he was convicted on a lot more than this dumb shirt.   His picture on the camera & I assume the eyewitness testimony of the clerk. Possibly fingerprints or other physical evidence.   However, your points above seem a circular argument.   He’s guilty because he has the shirt, and the shirt shouldn’t matter because he’s guilty anyway.   Frankly the shirt sounds like a red herring.   If counsel was otherwise competent and the evidence was otherwise conclusive, it does seem a waste of resources; but the rights of the accused are paramount in our system (that’s why Wayno can afford a T&T or two).   I like it that way in general, even when a specific case makes it difficult to remember. Joe F.

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The 4th Court of Crim Appeals, SA,  has ordered a new trial on the grounds of "ineffective counsel."  It seems the defendant, accused of robbing a C-store, wore the same distinct shirt, with a picture of his dog, to voir dire, that he wore on the video, robbing the store, and his counsel’s failure to object was "i.c."  Well, maybe, but two things come to mind:  Shouldn’t the obvious guilt matter?  Punish the attorney, perhaps, but how effectively _can_ one defend such a person?  And, this is exactly the ridiculousness in the system that gets "the average Joe and Jane" so upset.  Unless the attorney dressed this guy, our tax dollars get to pay for another trial for a guilty man. R

Response:

The 4th Court of Crim Appeals, SA,  has ordered a new trial on the grounds of "ineffective counsel."  It seems the defendant, accused of robbing a C-store, wore the same distinct shirt, with a picture of his dog, to voir dire, that he wore on the video, robbing the store, and his counsel’s failure to object was "i.c."  Well, maybe, but two things come to mind:  Shouldn’t the obvious guilt matter?  Punish the attorney, perhaps, but how effectively _can_ one defend such a person?  And, this is exactly the ridiculousness in the system that gets "the average Joe and Jane" so upset.  Unless the attorney dressed this guy, our tax dollars get to pay for another trial for a guilty man. R

True, it is very annoying to think of the wasted dollars and time involved but given the number of high profile cases being overturned by DNA evidence, (especially north of the border) where the quality of counsel was at best questionable, I think this is the price we have to pay to enshrine the concept in law. I don’t know what our angling lawyers may think of this idea, but perhaps it would be appropriate in cases where a gross error by an officer of the court resulted in a costly delay or mistrial, that officer had to personally foot the bill for at least a portion of the court costs.  Might make some of the inattentive sit up and pay attention. Peter

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Question:

I have read that it is a good idea to attach a short length of monofilament to the end of one’s line and finishing it with a perfection loop.  This would enable one to attach (and exchange) different leaders without having to tie a knot (loop to loop) and saves the end of the fly line from repeated clippings.   I would like to know two things: 1. Who uses this and do you like it? 2. What length and pound test of mono would you suggest for a 5wt fly line? Thanks in advance for your help. JB

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JB, I used to use a perfection loop but changed last year when I realized that 98% of any windknots I got were wrapped around the loop connection.  I now tie on a  12"-18" section of heavy (20#) mono directly to the end of the fly line using a blood knot, then tie in a knotless leader one size under my desired tippet (again with a blood knot), then finally tie in a tippet of the desired length and weight using either a surgeons knot or another blood knot. When the tippet needs replaced I just snip off just behind the last knot and tie in another length.  The leader is handled the same way.  When the heavy mono gets below six inches I snip it off just behind the knot and tie in again. While this does cause some loss of the fly line it is very little, less than a inch last year.  I figure by the time I get to the point where it interferes with the geometry of the fly line it will be time to replace the line anyway. When I first started this I got a spool of 10# mono and practiced tying blood knots while watching TV or listening to the stereo.  I had always avoided tying the blood knot as it appeared difficult and clumsy but after a week of practicing during TV or stereo I was tying them without looking. Overall this system has been easy for me to use and its reduced my windknots by maybe 50%. Just my experience. Regards, Don – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have read that it is a good idea to attach a short length of monofilament to the end of one’s line and finishing it with a perfection loop.  This would enable one to attach (and exchange) different leaders without having to tie a knot (loop to loop) and saves the end of the fly line from repeated clippings.   I would like to know two things: 1. Who uses this and do you like it? 2. What length and pound test of mono would you suggest for a 5wt fly line? Thanks in advance for your help. JB

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______  If you will TRASH that loop to loop connection because you’re so lazy to do it right, your delivery will be most assured and up town as a serious fly fisherman. Need I be more blunt?

No, but you might try saying it in English. — Levi Life is anything that dies when you stomp on it.                                                         — Dave Barry

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Don, Thanks for the advice, I appreciate you sharing your experience and I will give your method a try.   Kind of you to help, thanks again. EJB

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EJB I agree with Don and do it exactly the same way he does.  I use the same poundage lines too.  If I were writing the first reply, it would have been the same as Don’s Good luck! Bob

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I use a loop-to-loop connection between leader and tippet only if the tippet is 4lb test or higher.  A good knot will distribute the stress over several wraps of monofilament.  A loop to loop connection is just line against line. In most cases, I’ll tie on a tippet with a surgeon’s knot. Mu

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I use a loop-to-loop connection between leader and tippet only if the tippet is 4lb test or higher.  A good knot will distribute the stress over several wraps of monofilament.  A loop to loop connection is just line against line. In most cases, I’ll tie on a tippet with a surgeon’s knot. Mu

______  If you will TRASH that loop to loop connection because you’re so lazy to do it right, your delivery will be most assured and up town as a serious fly fisherman. Need I be more blunt? — Mr.G http://www.gink.com/  Updates http://www.gink.com/chat Flyfishing Conversations 6:00 PM PST till after midnight.

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Question:

Hi Bob Have a look in  our fly catalog. Let us know what you think. www.popularfishingflies.com Popular Fishing Flies Robert Lindberg. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I always seem to be looking for pix of flies I’ve heard about to try and learn something about them. Can anyone recommend several "best" sites that show a large selection of fly pictures (besides England’s and the Virtual fly box)? Thanks, Bob

Response:

Check out the site http://www.virtualflybox.com.  They have a LOT of flies and pics there. David T. * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

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Hi, I always seem to be looking for pix of flies I’ve heard about to try and learn something about them. Can anyone recommend several "best" sites that show a large selection of fly pictures (besides England’s and the Virtual fly box)? Thanks, Bob

http://www.mwflytying.com/default.html http://www.flyanglersonline.com http://members.mint.net/raske.index.html http://killroys.com/default.htm#sitemenu

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Sorry I missed the backslash off   http://members.mint-net/raske/index.html

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Pix of flies at http://www.f-deans.freeserve.co.uk – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I always seem to be looking for pix of flies I’ve heard about to try and learn something about them. Can anyone recommend several "best" sites that show a large selection of fly pictures (besides England’s and the Virtual fly box)? Thanks, Bob

Response:

Take a look at these locations: http://www.flyline.com/flys/patrns.htm http://www.flyanglersonline.com/ http://globalflyfisher.com/patterns/list.html#Stream Ernie Harrison Have you tried a Blood Knot Machine?  http://home.pacbell.net/ernie2 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Pix of flies at http://www.f-deans.freeserve.co.uk Hi, I always seem to be looking for pix of flies I’ve heard about to try and learn something about them. Can anyone recommend several "best" sites that show a large selection of fly pictures (besides England’s and the Virtual fly box)? Thanks, Bob

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Hi, I always seem to be looking for pix of flies I’ve heard about to try and learn something about them. Can anyone recommend several "best" sites that show a large selection of fly pictures (besides England’s and the Virtual fly box)? Thanks, Bob

Response:

I don’t have a Web site suggestion. Instead, may I suggest a book: The Classic Guide to Fly-Fishing for Trout Charles Jardine ISBN 0-394-58719-7 It was published in 1991 in Great Britain, so it doesn’t have all the patterns you’ll come across, but it does have 60 full color pages of flies (about 8 flies per page) as well as a complete directory of fly dressings (i.e. what hook sizes and materials are used to tie each fly). For your viewing pleasure, I scanned a page of the book (warning: 200K image) and put it at: http://www.ipass.net/~stevez/images/flypics.jpg Any discoloration in fly patterns is likely an artifact of my scanner, not the author. I invite the input of experienced fly fishermen to comment on this book, but I love it. It is an absolutely beautiful hardcover book that I keep alternately on my coffee table at home and on the desk in my office. Steve Zimmerman

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I always seem to be looking for pix of flies I’ve heard about to try and learn something about them. Can anyone recommend several "best" sites that show a large selection of fly pictures (besides England’s and the Virtual fly box)? Thanks, Bob

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Question:

Will be at camp Moosehead Lake, Maine second week September.  Want to do some casting/spinning fishing for trout, salmon,  teage what should I take, in way of lures, what weight line, etc.  Any suggestions where to fish on Mt Kineo side lake?    

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writes: Will be at camp Moosehead Lake, Maine second week September.  Want to do some casting/spinning fishing for trout, salmon,  teage what should I take, in way of lures, what weight line, etc.  Any suggestions where to fish on Mt Kineo side lake?    

Stop off at the Maine Guide Fly Shop in Greenville before heading to Rockwood. Danny will set you up with what you need for spin fishing or lake trolling. Bill — Bill Fling                     Tel. (315) 298-3044 SALMON RIVER ANGLERS LODGE     FAX  (315) 298-2619 P.O. Box 353                   Rt. 13, Rome Road Pulaski, NY 13142-0353   ‘SALMON RIVER/LAKE ONTARIO SPORTFISHING REPORTS’             ‘http://www.salmon-river.com’

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Has anyone fished Moosehead Lake (Maine) for Bass?  I am thinking about going up there in August.  Thanks

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Wow, this takes me back…haven’t fished Moosehead since the early 70s…didn’t know bass were there! Try spinners fished deep near the islands and points. ACP

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Question:

I jsut got the Mastery Series Bonefish line (sinking) which looks extra slippery. Does anyone have a suggestion on what knot to use to attach the butt section?

Response:

I use a quick double nail knot and then super glue it. I’ve been using this method on 9 through 13 wt. lines without any problems. This seems to be a standard method down here in South Florida. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I jsut got the Mastery Series Bonefish line (sinking) which looks extra slippery. Does anyone have a suggestion on what knot to use to attach the butt section?

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I just used a single nail knot on mine and it has held through  several dozen tarpon and miscellaneous other fish.  I put a coat of cement over the top, primarily  to smooth it out.  There are probably better knots, but this one was good enough.  good luck. I jsut got the Mastery Series Bonefish line (sinking) which looks extra slippery. Does anyone have a suggestion on what knot to use to attach the butt section?

– Tim Ackerman "everyone lives downstream"

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I jsut got the Mastery Series Bonefish line (sinking) which looks extra slippery. Does anyone have a suggestion on what knot to use to attach the butt section?

Is that a solid monocore or a braided monocore?  If it’s a solid core I would normally strip off a few inches of coating, tie an overhand knot in the core and slide the butt through it, then tie a nail knot with the butt to the core, being sure to snug it down against the overhand. George Anderson and I tested this knot on the Monic line last year and it seemed to be the only one that was 100%. Marshall

Response:

I just got the Mastery Series Bonefish line (sinking) which looks extra slippery. Does anyone have a suggestion on what knot to use to attach the butt section?

        A needle nail knot.  No matter how slippery the line may be,         that one’s not going to come loose.                                         Tom Hewlett-Packard Laboratories                     Phone: (970) 229-3531 External Research Program                          FAX: (970) 229-6198 3404 East Harmony Road Fort Collins, CO 80525-9599

Response:

I jsut got the Mastery Series Bonefish line (sinking) which looks extra slippery. Does anyone have a suggestion on what knot to use to attach the butt section?

We use the Albright knot to attach the butt section to the front of the flyline. On the rear of the line we fold it back to form a small loop. We then nail knot it twice to form a loop. We tie a Bimini Twist in the backing and loop that to the flyline. We use Goodyear Pliobond cement on all the knots to make them more streamline. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

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Similar to Tom’s suggestion:  make a loop out of braided mono, slide it over the fly line, tie a nail knot with 10-12# mono at end of braided mono, then touch it with a drop of "super glue".  This will give you a loop for loop-to-loop connection and it won’t come off. Dave Cornue

Response:

I jsut got the Mastery Series Bonefish line (sinking) which looks extra slippery. Does anyone have a suggestion on what knot to use to attach the butt section? Is that a solid monocore or a braided monocore?  If it’s a solid core I would normally strip off a few inches of coating, tie an overhand knot in the core and slide the butt through it, then tie a nail knot with the butt to the core, being sure to snug it down against the overhand. George Anderson and I tested this knot on the Monic line last year and it seemed to be the only one that was 100%. Marshall

What people call slime line are those clear no-core lines.  They look like a fat mono. Nix on the needle knot. I found with the mastery stillwater and only one nail knot that it squeezed the slime line until it weakened and slipped or broke.  I use and found a good and easy knot is to tie two or three nail knots in a row.  Just leave the tag line 12 inches long on the first one, cinch it tight, then tie another a half-inch up the line. Before you pull this one tight, slide it a bit up the line so it will all be smooth when you pull it tight. Repeat again if you wish. Mark Vinsel — http://www.lanminds.com/local/vinnie/gallery.html

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I jsut got the Mastery Series Bonefish line (sinking) which looks extra slippery. Does anyone have a suggestion on what knot to use to attach the butt section?

THE ALBERTSON KNOT. Mr. G.

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Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

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Question:

Anyone with experience flyfishing the Morehead City NC area during the summer? Wife wants to go on vacation there in the late July/Aug timeframe… Understand there is good wading on the inland waterway there and some opportunities for FF with guides… Any experience?

Response:

 (J. Marker) writes: Anyone with experience flyfishing the Morehead City NC area during the summer? … opportunities for FF with guides… Any experience?

Call John Martyn at Martyn’s Sea & Stream (919-403-1604) in Durham, NC.  He can give you good information and put you in touch with area guides.  I’ve fished with Bill Harris and will be going with him again. (John can give you his number]. Good fishing! J. Rice

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Anyone with experience flyfishing the Morehead City NC area during the summer? Wife wants to go on vacation there in the late July/Aug timeframe… Understand there is good wading on the inland waterway there and some opportunities for FF with guides… Any experience?

The best thing going in the summer months is spanish mackerel fishing.  Go out to Cape Lookout and look for schools breaking water along the hook. Fish will be all inside the bight.  Sometimes using anchored yachts for ambush points.  Beautiful place too, very secluded, about 7 miles from Beaufort and Morehead.  Contact me and I could take you

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