Question:

says… <Snipped I’m a little unclear about the ettiquette of this. In the bass/catfish circles it’s sometimes okay to say "mind yer own dam’ biziness" as long as one says it around a mouthful of Skoal Long Cut Wintergreen or Pabst. How does this apply to flyfishing, if we’re so snooty and elite?

Hmmm. It’s hard to be snooty and elite when I spend most of my time picking out windknots and talking to trees that trap my line! Also the "everyman" kinds of fish I chase are a testament to just how vanilla I am… (Well ok, maybe French Vanilla with Pralines!) I gotta get a little further south and meet some of those folks. Even when I was in Houston I didn’t find too many of the "Skoal Crowd". — Michael Era

Question:

I’m a farmer from the midwest, and I have seen this behavior many times before.  In a hoglot (it can happen with cattle also) when one pig is picked on and shows too much weakness, often many other pigs will jump in and attack it.  They will often continue until they kill the weak pig. Now the article is gone so I cannot even read it, much less respond to it.  Usually when something stinks, it needs to be aired out.

Response:

FAOL made a public relations mistake by censoring opposing points of view in the public message forums and guest book.

Exactly right. I have been hearing a lot about how MC ‘censored’ Ole Rupe’s article when, in fact, FAOL censored any and all opposing comments, and based on Deanna’s reply to MC, she still doesn’t see why this was wrong. If opposing views had been allowed from the beginning, this whole debate would have been conducted on FAOL, where it belonged. Just imagine if Time magazine, for instance, published this article and refused to acknowledge any opposing views, but published a weak disclaimer a few issues later. George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down" ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

Response:

Geez, bc, the anti-defamation league? Isn’t that overkill?   I don’t know why any responsible publisher (even on the net) would publish such crap but I guess I would just desub.  Seems like everbody wants to censor.  What a pain in the ass.

He incited killing people based on race.   Funniest thing, the author apparently doesn’t know anything about his subject, first-hand.  "If I lived" kinda makes you wonder about what he really would do if he did live there.  My guess would be hide under a rock.

He would be the last person I would invite on a hunting trip bc.

Response:

Folks Racists and their closet brethren are uniformly cowards and depend on easy prey and a wimpy defense. When they get challenged they generally run for cover. When they get their ass kicked they cry foul. When they are on top they kill and incite others to kill.  Civilized people who refuse to accept the inconvenience of the fight are walking shaky ground. Anyone feeling sorry for these assholes might try to consider how  Native American kids who accessed Ole Rupe’s racist shit felt. One of the most important lessons of the 20th Century is that racists and Nazis will use the hood at night, the gas chamber when they can get away with it and a cynical intellectualized stance when it suits them, and further, that the only effective way to fight them is to make them pay a high price for their bullshit. Good riddance, F*** Rupe and the horse he rode in on Dave

Response:

Why don’t you just email the author and ask for a copy?<

Who the fuck is the author?   And that’s not the point, anyway.  However, valiant ROFFians have provided me with this "tempest in a teapot"  piece of shit. Waste of good bandwidth to even discuss it.

Response:

I certainly have no tolerance for censorship. Had I been able to read the article perhaps I would have reacted differently, but thanks to all you "right thinkers" I do not have that opportunity. Expressing an opinion and attempting to force other expressions off the net are two different things.  I trust you can see that.

I am not condoning censorship.  FAOL made the decision to publish the article unedited in its original form.  The article would have been just as effective with out the racial overtones.  FAOL made a public relations mistake by censoring opposing points of view in the public message forums and guest book.  It was only after this censorship took place, did I start my letter campaign making sponsors and organizations like the Anti-Defamation League aware of that article. bc.

Response:

It was only after this censorship took

place, did I start my letter campaign making sponsors and organizations like the Anti-Defamation League aware of that article.< Geez, bc, the anti-defamation league?   Isn’t that overkill?  I don’t know why any responsible publisher (even on the net) would publish such crap but I guess I would just desub.  Seems like everbody wants to censor.  What a pain in the ass. Funniest thing, the author apparently doesn’t know anything about his subject, first-hand.  "If I lived" kinda makes you wonder about what he really would do if he did live there.  My guess would be hide under a rock.

Response:

Why don’t you just email the author and ask for a copy?< Who the fuck is the author?   And that’s not the point, anyway.  However, valiant ROFFians have provided me with this "tempest in a teapot"  piece of shit. Waste of good bandwidth to even discuss it.

I believe the whole thing started because Mike didn’t want articles he had written in the same ‘publication’ as that one, which is his right as an author. You were complaining that the result of his actions deprived you of your opportunity to read the article. FWIW. — Charlie…

Response:

I believe the whole thing started because Mike didn’t want articles he

had written in the same ‘publication’ as that one, which is his right as an author. You were complaining that the result of his actions deprived you of your opportunity to read the article. FWIW.< In spite of the recent Ct of Appeals decision, whether or not it’s his right is still up in the air IMO.  But yeah, I was complaining about that.   Now that I’ve read it, I wish I had had the opportunity to read it BEFORE I got into this thread.  And that’s the closest thing to an apology anyone is going to get from me. <g

Response:

Isn’t that overkill?  I don’t know why any responsible publisher (even on the net) would publish such crap but I guess I would just desub.  Seems like everbody wants to censor.  What a pain in the ass.

Good point Harry. I raised a stink precisely because I do appreciate FAOL and have no desire to "unsubscribe". If the publication were of no value and little read, there would have been no outcry. I said as much to Deanna in reply to an email, I hope she takes it to heart. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

I do not regret any of my actions, and would do the same thing again if necessary.  I do regret the damage caused to the site, or to people connected with it, but this is in no way my responsibility.  This is purely the result of their own actions. The decision to close is up to the publishers alone, and I have no influence in the matter.

Mike certainly doesn’t need validation from me, but I do agree with the way he handled the whole mess. He removed himself from a publication he didn’t agree with, and told people why. The situation got a bit excessive, but the publisher’s actions and responses seemed to be as bizarre as the author’s, including shutting down the site and the ‘enjoy your victory’ bullshit. Sounds like one bad association (Rupe, Deanna, the public, and Mike) just waiting to flame out…and it did. — Jeff Cook http://www.cookstudios.com Washington DC area

Response:

What’s with this "closure" of FAOL? Does that mean they’re shutting it down altogether? Why? Is this a case of the publisher "eating worms"? Will she have second thoughts? Or have all her sponsors deserted her? Tune in at 11. Seriously, folks, this is what they call a perverse result. I don’t think anyone in ROFF who was offended by the article wanted FAOL to cease to exist. Maybe a letter-writing campaign to their ex-sponsors along these lines would be called for: "I am satisfied by FAOL’s apology and retraction of the offensive article. Please continue your sponsorship of this fine web site." Not that it will do much good. One more thing. Before you start letter-writing campaigns to sponsors when you see something you don’t like on an otherwise excellent website, think about perverse effects. Wait at least of few days. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

HR, Like a spoiled little boy, he demanded that they return his ball.  If you don’t do what I want, I’ll take my ball (those precious "articles") and go home.

The analogy to the spoiled little boy and his ball is something of a stretch.  Mike’s contributions were more than a ball.  They could easily be construed as an endorsement of the site and, once the site stepped over a line to which Mike is sensitive, it’s understandable that Mike would no longer want his name associated with that site. Thanks to Mike and others of his ilk, I have not read the article.  

Mike and his ilk aren’t the only problem, here.  As I understand it, their opposing views were censored before they took additional steps. We can now only speculate how things might have turned out had opposing views been given prompt and equally prominent exposure. But even if I had, and found it racist,  I would not have demanded it’s removal.

I also wish the whole affair had been handled differently.  You may recall that I was one who opposed Mr. G’s remarks about Indians/fishing on ROFF.

Sorry.  I didn’t see those posts… But noooo, apparently I and others are not to be allowed that privilege.

It doesn’t seem possible that you believe the site in question is/was the only place on earth you could read that article.  Assuming Rupe is willing, it may be posted elsewhere.  You might even hunt Rupe up and request a copy if you’re as passionate as you sound about wanting to read it yourself.  It might even be that one of the article’s antagonists grabbed a copy and could email it to you.  But you gotta ask. The CENSORS have had their way.

I’m not arguing that point.  As I said before, I had concerns about the "censorship" aspect of the issue.  Censorship, though, isn’t always a dirty word.  You could say that I censored Larry Flint by keeping Hustler Magazine out of my house.  There were kids around. Was that kind of "censorship" a bad thing? We’ve long had laws on the books to discourage uncivil speech in public places.  It hasn’t been that long ago that a dunked boater was busted and prosecuted for cussing up a blue streak around women and kids.  Certainly you can argue that such laws infringe freedom of speech. But when you can walk into any supermarket and run a good chance of finding yourself — and your kids — in the checkout line behind somebody wearing a tee-shirt emblazoned with all manner of obscenites — you have to wonder… If we now find ourselves so enlightened that such laws are an embarrasment, what remedies do you propose for those who prefer not to be accosted by uncivil speech?  Are we to reduce them to staying indoors and keeping their mouths shut?  If that’s the answer, haven’t we censored them? One of my points to which you didn’t respond was the issue of all of us using our influence to affect the world around us.  What I’m wondering about is something like this: Remember when the Exxon Valdez ran aground?  Remember Exxon’s grudging responses?  Suppose somebody had succeeded in motivating a large number of Exxon customers to protest by buying their petrol elsewhere. Would that have been dirty pool or economic terrorism? Don’t us mere citizens have a right to prod and push our world about to shape it into something we think would be better? The way I see it, freedom of speech is a door that swings both ways. That is, say what you like, but be prepared for others to respond by saying what _they_ like.  And sometimes they say it _very_ loudly. Which is what Mike did. Wes Peterson LexCraft Data Services

Response:

I have always had a pretty good opinion of you Mike but I must say that I understand now why you live in Germany.  Who the fuck put you in charge of anything, much less in charge of deciding what should and should not appear on the net?  You have come out of this looking like a pretentious asshole IMO. But now I guess you can write some of your famous doggerel and everything will be all right.

Blaine, First of all, country of origin as nothing to do with expressing you’re own point of view. Mike did not put himself in charge of anything.  He has the legal right to express his opinion.  The publishers of the site made a business decision to put that article unedited on their commercial site.  The article would have been just as effective without those comments. When opposing points of view were expressed, they were quickly censored and removed from the public areas of the site.  Their justification was that they were off topic and inflammatory. If I go to a bookstore and pick up the latest issue of a fly fishing magazine, I can make a fair assumption that the articles enclosed will contain material relevant to the sport.  That the articles will not be intertwined with racial comments, incitement to kill someone and that 30/06 rifle rounds is inexpensive.  The same assumption should be made of an online magazine dedicated to fly-fishing. As far as I am concerned the staff of FAOL could have handled the entire situation better. The article in its original form had no business being on a commercial venue like FAOL. Based on the responses that I have received from sponsors when I sent out my email, I could surmise that they agree.   You and FAOL lack one thing: tolerance bc.

Response:

Presumably you think its OK for people to voice their hatred and poisonous

viewpoints, but not OK to do anything actively to oppose them ?< I have no knowledge of what was written and thanks to you and others like you, I will apparently have no opportunity to.  What I do oppose is censorship in any way shape or form.   No doubt you will live to censor another day.  And I’m glad I distressed you.  Certainly you have distressed me.

Response:

You and FAOL lack one thing: tolerance< I certainly have no tolerance for censorship. Had I been able to read the article perhaps I would have reacted differently, but thanks to all you "right thinkers" I do not have that opportunity. Expressing an opinion and attempting to force other expressions off the net are two different things.  I trust you can see that.

Would you like a copy of it?  I kept a copy for reference. Peter

Response:

You and FAOL lack one thing: tolerance<

I certainly have no tolerance for censorship. Had I been able to read the article perhaps I would have reacted differently, but thanks to all you "right thinkers" I do not have that opportunity. Expressing an opinion and attempting to force other expressions off the net are two different things.  I trust you can see that.

Response:

I have no knowledge of what was written and thanks to you and others like you, I will apparently have no opportunity to.  What I do oppose is censorship in any way shape or form.   No doubt you will live to censor another day.  And I’m glad I distressed you.  Certainly you have distressed me.

Why don’t you just email the author and ask for a copy? — Charlie…

Response:

Would you like a copy of it?  I kept a copy for reference.<

Thanks, Peter but Christian sent me one.   Is THIS really what all the fuss is about? "With regard to native American fishing rights I hold the politically incorrect view that the only good Indian is a dead Indian. If I lived  where they gill netted steelhead I would be on the 6 p.m. news. Uncle Sam taught me how to remove problems at 300 meters." Stupid?  Yes.  Disgusting that someone would put this onto the net (or anyplace, for that matter)?  Absolutely.   I disagree totally with the ideas expressed there.  Would I bitch about them?  Hell yes.   Do I believe that Rupe (or whatever the hell his name is) has a right to express them.  Yes, I do.   On a fly fishing site?  While I disagree violently with him, his comments are related to fishing.  So why not?  It’s not like his ideas, however unpalatable, are apt to have the impact of, say, shouting "fire" in a crowded theatre, now are they. With all the horrible examoles of racism that we see and have seen, frankly, this appears to me to be a tempest in a teapot. There are a lot better ways of fighting evil than writing about it on the net. But then, we’re writers, not doers, eh?

Response:

<long "final" rant snipped I have always had a pretty good opinion of you Mike but I must say that I understand now why you live in Germany.  Who the fuck put you in charge of anything, much less in charge of deciding what should and should not appear on the net?  You have come out of this looking like a pretentious asshole IMO. But now I guess you can write some of your famous doggerel and everything will be all right.

You are entitled to your opinion, good or bad.  Your insulting generalised implications of why I live where I live are unnecessary, unfortunate, unfounded, unworthy and not a little distressing. I am not in charge of anything at all. I simply voiced a perfectly normal protest at a particularly crass example of racism, in a place and under circumstances which where extremely upsetting. Your opinion of my person is also not particularly nice, but you have every right to voice it. I will doubtless survive nevertheless. Presumably you think its OK for people to voice their hatred and poisonous viewpoints, but not OK to do anything actively to oppose them ? Let

Question:

Awhile ago I posted a question about using horses for flyfishing (for riding to the spots, not for materials), and got some helpful replies. Well, I’m gonna do it. I found a place to pasture a horse about five miles from Stanley, for $35 a month! I can’t imagine what it would cost me to keep a horse in Menlo Park, CA. It would be a choice between that and sending my kids to college. It’s a beautiful pasture on 40 acres owned by a crusty oldimer who used to live in my cabin way back when. I think he’ll show this greenhorn the ropes. His place is right at the foot of the Sawtooths, next to some beautiful country with high lakes. I’ve found I’m too old to hump my gear up to the high country. I figure $2000 or so for a good horse (I’ll start with one, then maybe get another), $1000 for a trailer, $500 or so for tack, and pocket change for shots, shoeing, and whatnot, and I’m in business. I just don’t know if I can wait for next spring. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

RW, EEEEEEEEEHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAWWWWWW   HEE HEEEE HAW!!!!!!   HHOOOOOOOOOOOOO As the "bank" side of a four horse stable for my daughter I got a tremendous laugh out of your post!! Thanks for the moments of "unbridled" (to make a poor horse pun) laughter – horse laughter even. You have made my day brighter! The down side is that if you think   " I figure $2000 or so for a good horse (I’ll start with one, then maybe get another), $1000 for a trailer, $500 or so for tack, and pocket change for shots, shoeing, and whatnot, and I’m in business. I just don’t know if I can wait for next spring. " is a realistic budget for

messin’ with horses you got "anuther think" coming. They can get pretty expensive – and I didn’t see any mention of YOUR medical bills Best of luck, but it sounds like someone offered to "git chew inna horse bidness right". GB

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Awhile ago I posted a question about using horses for flyfishing (for riding to the spots, not for materials), and got some helpful replies. Well, I’m gonna do it. I found a place to pasture a horse about five miles from Stanley, for $35 a month! I can’t imagine what it would cost me to keep a horse in Menlo Park, CA. It would be a choice between that and sending my kids to college. It’s a beautiful pasture on 40 acres owned by a crusty oldimer who used to live in my cabin way back when. I think he’ll show this greenhorn the ropes. His place is right at the foot of the Sawtooths, next to some beautiful country with high lakes. I’ve found I’m too old to hump my gear up to the high country. I figure $2000 or so for a good horse (I’ll start with one, then maybe get another), $1000 for a trailer, $500 or so for tack, and pocket change for shots, shoeing, and whatnot, and I’m in business. I just don’t know if I can wait for next spring. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Care to post some useful information?  Not that I don’t appreciate your solid-caps onomatopoetic laughter, but if you think rw has his numbers way off, how about telling him why instead of making fun of him.  I have more than a little horse experience myself and those numbers sound pretty close to me. Do you take yours to a hairdresser or what?

Doesn’t everybody take their horse to the hairdresser and get it manicured?!?! You must not have cared for your horse if you didn’t call the vet everytime it farted, coughed or sneezed because those are signs of serious illness! Especially the farting "Doc, I just don’t know what to do.  My horse keeps breaking wind even at a standstill!" On a serious note, I would look to spend a little more than $1000 for a trailer and $500 for tack.  Make sure to check the floor of the trailer.  Not a good idea to buy a trailer then have to fix it.  And make sure to actually sit in the saddle and make sure it is comfortable (preferably on the intended horse). When I say comfortable I mean for the horse AND you.   Just some suggestions. Besides, what’s the worst that can happen?  Find out it isn’t going to work out and then sell everything? Warren

Response:

Doesn’t everybody take their horse to the hairdresser and get it manicured?!?! You must not have cared for your horse if you didn’t call the vet everytime it farted, coughed or sneezed because those are signs of serious illness! Especially the farting "Doc, I just don’t know what to do.  My horse keeps breaking wind even at a standstill!" On a serious note, I would look to spend a little more than $1000 for a trailer and $500 for tack.  

Probably right. When I actually start buying things I tend to spend far more than my minimum estimates because I’d rather have nice things, as long as I get value for my money. Of course, I’ll have to reserve a few thousand for hairdressing and manicures. On a side note, lots of people ride Harley Davidson motorcycles around here. I’ve had a few bikes and I’ve always wanted a Harley, so I was musing about getting one. Then I thought about the comparatively low cost of a horse and how many more hours of enjoyment I’d get out of it, and there was no contest. Probably after I get the horse I’ll start thinking about Harleys again. Make sure to check the floor of the trailer.  Not a good idea to buy a trailer then have to fix it.  And make sure to actually sit in the saddle and make sure it is comfortable (preferably on the intended horse). When I say comfortable I mean for the horse AND you.   Just some suggestions.

Thanks for the helpful suggestions, WFin66. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

RW, Write back in a few years. By then you will have been educated. Without the experiential wisdom you are just speculating. Good luck with your horse scheme, but my point is that you WILL need to budget more than "pocket change" for the expenses you mentioned. Glen

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – To all – I couldn’t help myself… I hope RW dosen’t take it as a flame – wasn’t meant that way. On the other hand, when he mentioned those "pocket change" items – maybe he has BIG POCKETS and LOTS OF CHANGE!! $2000 for a horse and $1000 for a trailer. Do you expect shots, shoeing, and so on to be significant compared to that? Perhaps unlike your daughters, I’m not real sentimental about animals (except for my Golden Retriever). If I were looking at a bottomless pit of medical expenses for an animal I’d cut my losses. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

RW, Write back in a few years. By then you will have been educated. Without the experiential wisdom you are just speculating. Good luck with your horse scheme, but my point is that you WILL need to budget more than "pocket change" for the expenses you mentioned. Glen

I’ll do that. The "pocket change" phrase was hyberbole. BTW, I’m not merely speculating. Like everything I do that requires significant outlays of cash, I’ve been looking into it pretty carefully. I’ve long wanted a horse or two, but having them at my California residence would be an absurd waste of money — something for billionares in Woodside. Here in Idaho it looks like a bargain, plus I’d be pasturing them right next to some great country. Most enjoyable things require some money (at least, the things I enjoy), but I’m no sucker, which you implied I was, and which frankly pissed me off. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Gee RW, as I mentioned before, my comments were NOT made to, as you say it "piss you off", but I DID find a GREAT deal of humor in your original thesis. This message sounds much more rational, as though you are now considering the big picture. I too enjoy the horses. I have liked them for years and only bought some in the past few years. We were terribly naive when we got started (we actually thought ONE bale of hay was significant!! – now we buy *hundreds* of bales in one trip). No, we do not go to the horseyhairdresser, but we DO take VERY good care of ALL our animals. Perhaps I was too flip in my original response to the group. I truly would not want to see anyone have a bad horse experience and it sounded like that is where you were headed. So sorry I hurt your feelings! Glen

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – RW, Write back in a few years. By then you will have been educated. Without the experiential wisdom you are just speculating. Good luck with your horse scheme, but my point is that you WILL need to budget more than "pocket change" for the expenses you mentioned. Glen I’ll do that. The "pocket change" phrase was hyberbole. BTW, I’m not merely speculating. Like everything I do that requires significant outlays of cash, I’ve been looking into it pretty carefully. I’ve long wanted a horse or two, but having them at my California residence would be an absurd waste of money — something for billionares in Woodside. Here in Idaho it looks like a bargain, plus I’d be pasturing them right next to some great country. Most enjoyable things require some money (at least, the things I enjoy), but I’m no sucker, which you implied I was, and which frankly pissed me off. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Perhaps I was too flip in my original response to the group. <

Pretty hard to be *too* flip!  <g

Response:

RW, EEEEEEEEEHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAWWWWWW   HEE HEEEE HAW!!!!!!   HHOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Care to post some useful information?  Not that I don’t appreciate your solid-caps onomatopoetic laughter, but if you think rw has his numbers way off, how about telling him why instead of making fun of him.  I have more than a little horse experience myself and those numbers sound pretty close to me.  Do you take yours to a hairdresser or what? — Levi I have been through some terrible things in my life – some of which actually happened.  –Mark Twain

Response:

RW, EEEEEEEEEHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAWWWWWW   HEE HEEEE HAW!!!!!!   HHOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Hey! Attributions are in order – lest you be accused of plagiarizing the best line that Chill Wills ever delivered… /daytripper (lessee who remembers…)

Response:

RW, EEEEEEEEEHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAWWWWWW   HEE HEEEE HAW!!!!!!   HHOOOOOOOOOOOOO Care to post some useful information?  Not that I don’t appreciate your solid-caps onomatopoetic laughter, but if you think rw has his numbers way off, how about telling him why instead of making fun of him.  I have more than a little horse experience myself and those numbers sound pretty close to me.  Do you take yours to a hairdresser or what?

Ha! Good one, Levi. I can just picture his daughters’ horses with little ribbon curliques in their manes. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

To all – I couldn’t help myself… I hope RW dosen’t take it as a flame – wasn’t meant that way. On the other hand, when he mentioned those "pocket change" items – maybe he has BIG POCKETS and LOTS OF CHANGE!!

$2000 for a horse and $1000 for a trailer. Do you expect shots, shoeing, and so on to be significant compared to that? Perhaps unlike your daughters, I’m not real sentimental about animals (except for my Golden Retriever). If I were looking at a bottomless pit of medical expenses for an animal I’d cut my losses. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

The immortal "Dr. Strangelove", of course. That was Slim Pickins. My favorite Chill Wills movie was probably "The Rounders" (unless you count the "Over the Hill Gang" TV stuff, that was great).

On the other hand, Slim Pickens DID deliver that line in a most artful fashion in Dr. Strangelove and in one of the most memorable scenes in movie history. Wolfgang (Whose practice in ducking and covering still serves him well to this day)

Response:

Question:

Try the white mountains near Apache country. When are you going? Buddy of mine hit the white and black river at around 8000 feet or so in mid March, and streams were high from runoff. These rivers have the fabled apache trout, which appears to resemble a brown trout after a slipped disk operation. Nice looking fish. High water in March skunked our trip, but beautiful country, and i hope to go back. Alex Pacek – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – what are the best spots in az for a flyfishing/backpacking trip?  and not the grand canyon.  thanks

Response:

what are the best spots in az for a flyfishing/backpacking trip?  and not the grand canyon.  thanks

Response:

Question:

Putting your children first does NOT mean you have to spend every second you your life with them. Your children as well as you will benefit if your mental health is good and your marriage is strong. Don’t feel guilty about taking care of those needs. Think of going away as part of a package of good family life that includes your needs and the children’s. You are just restoring your supplies of caring and patience for when they are needed. Please don’t fall into the trap of defining yourself only as "mommy the caregiver." you are also wife, friend, and person in your own right.

Response:

Hi…I am a stay at home mom of three.  I am very active with my three small children.  Their ages are 6,2, and 1.  I enjoy every minute with them, and never leave them with a sitter.  My husband and I take them everywhere with us.  On the weekends is his only time to spend quality time with them, so we hate to get a baby-sitter.  My problem is this though…this year, we have opted to go on vacation without them.  My husbands family is going to keep them.  My 6 year old is excited because he loves getting to go to his cousins, but my other two are too young to understand when I say I’m going on vacation.  We will be gone for 6 days.  Although I am excited to spend time with my husband, I feel guilty leaving them behind.  My daughter is the 2 year old and she is always right beside me.  I feel like she will be devestated with me gone.  I want to go, but should I feel guilty about going?  Many people tell me, including my pediatrician that a stay at home mom needs a break and that it is healthy, but why do I still feel like I’m doing something selfish?  I always put my kids first and this decision I’ve made to go without them this year has made me feel terrible.  Does anyone have any good words of advice for me?  Sounds corny, but I could use some about now.  I’ve got three weeks until my trip, and I want to enjoy it as much as possible.  I’m afraid I’ll worry about the younsters the whole time. Michelle……mommy of 3

Response:

Hey you deserve a vacation but I can see how you will miss your little brood. Read this idea for traveling parents.  Maybe you can do something like it to make it a little easier for you. In the article dad was traveling and mom helped her son make him little "gifts" one for each day that dad was away.  Dad would then call and talk about the gift.  The son was able to understand when the dad was coming back by which present he had opened.  Perhaps you could put together a few special treats and plan to call on the day that they are opened.  Or something like that.  Another idea would be to keep a journal or write a letter to your children while you are away.  This could be done while on the beach etc.  You’re going to be thinking of them anyway it always seems to help me when I write it down.  Then you can share them with them at a later date or keep them for yourself as a memory of your first vacation without them.  Keep remembering that they are probably going to have a blast so you try to do the same.  Hope all works out! Enjoy! -Jodi  mom of Kacie 7/24/98

Response:

Hi…I am a stay at home mom of three.  I am very active with my three small children.  Their ages are 6,2, and 1. I want to go, but should I feel guilty about going?

Unless you plan on homeschooling them and then raising them and their families in your home, you might want to consider this the first step at letting them see the "outside world".  It may help foster their independence.

Response:

Help! We’re going on a trip and don’t know what to do with our baby

Stoli! I agree with all the posters so far.  4 days is intolerable and 9 unthinkable. Most I’ve done is one night.

Response:

We contacted our local vet and the vet technician there does pet sitting. It was comforting to know that someone that worked at the vet hospital was also going to be checking on our cats every other day, if he noticed anything unusual, he would take them right to the vet. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Help! We’re going on a trip and don’t know what to do with our baby Stoli! She’s about a year old and has never been out of our home.  We’ve left her alone for 4-5 days with no problem before (big clean litter boxes, plenty of food and water, etc.) and wonder if we can do it for 9-10 without any problems.  Hate the thought of a kennel, and no one can come over to take care of her.  Any ideas? Is there a rule of thumb for this kind of thing?? Thanks. -Patrick

Response:

Help! We’re going on a trip and don’t know what to do with our baby Stoli! She’s about a year old and has never been out of our home.  We’ve left her alone for 4-5 days with no problem before (big clean litter boxes, plenty of food and water, etc.) and wonder if we can do it for 9-10 without any problems.  Hate the thought of a kennel, and no one can come over to take care of her.  Any ideas? Is there a rule of thumb for this kind of thing?? Thanks. -Patrick

   Hi,  When we go on holidays, we take the 2 cats to our vet, he has a kennel  and the cats are in a run and not in a cage.  They do not like it very much, but they are used to this twice a year.  We do make up to them when we get back! They are never any problems and  they are not mad at us, to happy to go outside again.  ob. — ****    Odette Brown ** I love Cats    ***** *** La Belle Province ** Quebec ** CANADA ***   http://www.igs.net/~rathey/odette1.htm

Response:

Help! We’re going on a trip and don’t know what to do with our baby Stoli! She’s about a year old and has never been out of our home.  We’ve left her alone for 4-5 days with no problem before (big clean litter boxes, plenty of food and water, etc.) and wonder if we can do it for 9-10 without any problems.  Hate the thought of a kennel, and no one can come over to take care of her.  Any ideas? Is there a rule of thumb for this kind of thing?? Thanks. -Patrick

My personal limit for leaving my cats alone is two nights.  Otherwise I would fret and never enjoy a minute of my trip.  Many have suggested a pet sitter, this is a great idea.  That way you will have the peace of mind knowing that your Stoli and your house are being looked after. Boarding can be stressful for a cat, it depends on the cats personality.  My Isis would probably be fine at a boarding facility, but I know my shy little Hero would just freak out!  So far, if I’ve had to be away from home for longer than two overnights, I’ve been able to coax (coerce?) friends into looking in on them.  This too could be an option for you and would likely be cheaper than a pet sitter.  You can generally get away with giving the friend a small gift from your vacation, or taking them for dinner or something Good luck with Stoli, and I hope you enjoy your vacation (wish I could go on a vacation….sigh) Claire — My email address is spam-blocked! To reply, just remove the "nospam."    |_/|                                                      (. .)                                                  /_/     =*= (     "Cats are really far out little       ____/ , ,    / ^ //       animals."                         /~____  =^= /   (|| ||)      – Marvin Gaye                     (#_#_#_)___)_)    "" ""

Response:

I, too, use a pet sitting service.  There is nothing better (except staying at home) for your cat.  They stay in a familiar environment and there is someone trustworthy to check on them every day.  Leaving them for 4-5 days on their own is not a good idea.  Too many things can happen to them when unattended.  You could come home to a disaster.

Response:

Help! We’re going on a trip and don’t know what to do with our baby Stoli! She’s about a year old and has never been out of our home.  We’ve left her alone for 4-5 days with no problem before (big clean litter boxes, plenty of food and water, etc.) and wonder if we can do it for 9-10 without any problems.  Hate the thought of a kennel, and no one can come over to take care of her.  Any ideas? Is there a rule of thumb for this kind of thing?? Thanks. -Patrick

 I just couldn’t do it. What happens if Stoli becomes ill? four days, let alone nine days delay in getting vet treatment could be the difference between life, serious illness or death. I use a boarding cattery near where I live. The couple that run it are retired and *adore* cats. They treat the boarding cats as if they were their own. Every day, they not only clean all the runs, but spend time with the cats making a fuss of them etc.. They take contact telephone numbers in case of emergency, have vet details in case of illness, feed the cats *exactly* what they are fed at home etc., etc.. Regards, Helen S

Response:

Help! We’re going on a trip and don’t know what to do with our baby Stoli!

Whenever we go out of town, we have a pet sitter come to our house. She comes in twice a day and feeds our cats, gives them fresh water, scoops the boxes, gives medicine to those that need it. We pay her for this service, but the cost is worth our peace of mind while we are gone. Try checking at pet food stores and with vets–they usually have bulletin boards with pet sitters who are in your area. Many are bonded and licensed, and good one will have references you can check. Many will also water plants, bring in the mail, turn on lights, etc. Good luck!

Response:

In the phone book, you should be able to find a pet sitter.  This is an awesome service that I use regularly when away.  A person comes in to look after your pets, water your plants, take in your mail, newspaper etc, and it’s wonderful.  Whatever service you choose, make sure you get references and credentials … Christin

Response:

I, too, use a pet sitting service.  It is GREAT!  Leaving a cat alone for 4-5 days is not a good idea.  Too many things can happen with no one to check on them.  What if they get sick?  Get into something they shouldn’t? What if they run out of food or knock over their water? Anyway, the pet sitter allows them to stay in their familiar environment with someone trustworthy to check on them.  It is well worth the money. They also take in mail, water plants, scoop litter, give medicine if necessary, feed and water.

Response:

Help! We’re going on a trip and don’t know what to do with our baby Stoli! She’s about a year old and has never been out of our home.  We’ve left her alone for 4-5 days with no problem before (big clean litter boxes, plenty of food and water, etc.) and wonder if we can do it for 9-10 without any problems.  Hate the thought of a kennel, and no one can come over to take care of her.  Any ideas? Is there a rule of thumb for this kind of thing?? Thanks. -Patrick

Response:

Help! We’re going on a trip and don’t know what to do with our baby

Stoli! I agree with all the posters so far.  4 days is intolerable and 9 unthinkable. Most I’ve done is one night.

Response:

We contacted our local vet and the vet technician there does pet sitting. It was comforting to know that someone that worked at the vet hospital was also going to be checking on our cats every other day, if he noticed anything unusual, he would take them right to the vet. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Help! We’re going on a trip and don’t know what to do with our baby Stoli! She’s about a year old and has never been out of our home.  We’ve left her alone for 4-5 days with no problem before (big clean litter boxes, plenty of food and water, etc.) and wonder if we can do it for 9-10 without any problems.  Hate the thought of a kennel, and no one can come over to take care of her.  Any ideas? Is there a rule of thumb for this kind of thing?? Thanks. -Patrick

Response:

Help! We’re going on a trip and don’t know what to do with our baby Stoli! She’s about a year old and has never been out of our home.  We’ve left her alone for 4-5 days with no problem before (big clean litter boxes, plenty of food and water, etc.) and wonder if we can do it for 9-10 without any problems.  Hate the thought of a kennel, and no one can come over to take care of her.  Any ideas? Is there a rule of thumb for this kind of thing?? Thanks. -Patrick

   Hi,  When we go on holidays, we take the 2 cats to our vet, he has a kennel  and the cats are in a run and not in a cage.  They do not like it very much, but they are used to this twice a year.  We do make up to them when we get back! They are never any problems and  they are not mad at us, to happy to go outside again.  ob. — ****    Odette Brown ** I love Cats    ***** *** La Belle Province ** Quebec ** CANADA ***   http://www.igs.net/~rathey/odette1.htm

Response:

Help! We’re going on a trip and don’t know what to do with our baby Stoli! She’s about a year old and has never been out of our home.  We’ve left her alone for 4-5 days with no problem before (big clean litter boxes, plenty of food and water, etc.) and wonder if we can do it for 9-10 without any problems.  Hate the thought of a kennel, and no one can come over to take care of her.  Any ideas? Is there a rule of thumb for this kind of thing?? Thanks. -Patrick

My personal limit for leaving my cats alone is two nights.  Otherwise I would fret and never enjoy a minute of my trip.  Many have suggested a pet sitter, this is a great idea.  That way you will have the peace of mind knowing that your Stoli and your house are being looked after. Boarding can be stressful for a cat, it depends on the cats personality.  My Isis would probably be fine at a boarding facility, but I know my shy little Hero would just freak out!  So far, if I’ve had to be away from home for longer than two overnights, I’ve been able to coax (coerce?) friends into looking in on them.  This too could be an option for you and would likely be cheaper than a pet sitter.  You can generally get away with giving the friend a small gift from your vacation, or taking them for dinner or something Good luck with Stoli, and I hope you enjoy your vacation (wish I could go on a vacation….sigh) Claire — My email address is spam-blocked! To reply, just remove the "nospam."    |_/|                                                      (. .)                                                  /_/     =*= (     "Cats are really far out little       ____/ , ,    / ^ //       animals."                         /~____  =^= /   (|| ||)      – Marvin Gaye                     (#_#_#_)___)_)    "" ""

Response:

I, too, use a pet sitting service.  There is nothing better (except staying at home) for your cat.  They stay in a familiar environment and there is someone trustworthy to check on them every day.  Leaving them for 4-5 days on their own is not a good idea.  Too many things can happen to them when unattended.  You could come home to a disaster.

Response:

Help! We’re going on a trip and don’t know what to do with our baby Stoli! She’s about a year old and has never been out of our home.  We’ve left her alone for 4-5 days with no problem before (big clean litter boxes, plenty of food and water, etc.) and wonder if we can do it for 9-10 without any problems.  Hate the thought of a kennel, and no one can come over to take care of her.  Any ideas? Is there a rule of thumb for this kind of thing?? Thanks. -Patrick

 I just couldn’t do it. What happens if Stoli becomes ill? four days, let alone nine days delay in getting vet treatment could be the difference between life, serious illness or death. I use a boarding cattery near where I live. The couple that run it are retired and *adore* cats. They treat the boarding cats as if they were their own. Every day, they not only clean all the runs, but spend time with the cats making a fuss of them etc.. They take contact telephone numbers in case of emergency, have vet details in case of illness, feed the cats *exactly* what they are fed at home etc., etc.. Regards, Helen S

Response:

Help! We’re going on a trip and don’t know what to do with our baby Stoli!

Whenever we go out of town, we have a pet sitter come to our house. She comes in twice a day and feeds our cats, gives them fresh water, scoops the boxes, gives medicine to those that need it. We pay her for this service, but the cost is worth our peace of mind while we are gone. Try checking at pet food stores and with vets–they usually have bulletin boards with pet sitters who are in your area. Many are bonded and licensed, and good one will have references you can check. Many will also water plants, bring in the mail, turn on lights, etc. Good luck!

Response:

In the phone book, you should be able to find a pet sitter.  This is an awesome service that I use regularly when away.  A person comes in to look after your pets, water your plants, take in your mail, newspaper etc, and it’s wonderful.  Whatever service you choose, make sure you get references and credentials … Christin

Response:

I, too, use a pet sitting service.  It is GREAT!  Leaving a cat alone for 4-5 days is not a good idea.  Too many things can happen with no one to check on them.  What if they get sick?  Get into something they shouldn’t? What if they run out of food or knock over their water? Anyway, the pet sitter allows them to stay in their familiar environment with someone trustworthy to check on them.  It is well worth the money. They also take in mail, water plants, scoop litter, give medicine if necessary, feed and water.

Response:

Help! We’re going on a trip and don’t know what to do with our baby Stoli! She’s about a year old and has never been out of our home.  We’ve left her alone for 4-5 days with no problem before (big clean litter boxes, plenty of food and water, etc.) and wonder if we can do it for 9-10 without any problems.  Hate the thought of a kennel, and no one can come over to take care of her.  Any ideas? Is there a rule of thumb for this kind of thing?? Thanks. -Patrick

Response:

We’re leaving for our vacation up north tomorrow.  I can’t wait!!  We’ll be spending most of our time out in the boat fishing.  And catching some rays.  I don’t want to spend all of my time in the bathroom. So hopefully my Lomotil will do the trick for me!  I got my doc to up the dose for me.  Thanks for the info Maryjo.  : )  I hope every one has a happy and healthy week like I’m hoping for!!  I can’t wait to get away!!!! Take Care, Sherry  ( who always says she the fishing pro in the family )  ; )

Response:

Sherry, Have fun!! and catch lots of fish.  ~~~~Pat Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

Thanks I hope to.  I love it in northern Mn.  The lakes are great, just getting back to nature.  There’s nothing more beautiful than sitting in a boat watching an eagle fly over!!  I just have to go to work for a few hours and than wer’e off!  For a whole week….Nothing but sun and fun….I don’t have to worry about what my clients want…just sit in the boat fishing for hours…catching fish and catching some rays….I hope everyone has a happy and healthy week…Just like I am hoping for….  : ) Take Care, Sherry   ( I still say I’m the fishing pro in the family )   ; )

Response:

Sherry- Enjoy your trip! Tracy

Response:

Response:

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! TELL ME!!!!!!! Rebecca Who wants to be invited to the wedding – I’m good for a gift (what can I say – I read too many romance novels)

Response:

There is no wedding but if you send a gift and we like it we may reconsider. — DAWN/Bonnie

Response:

Hummmm, the perfect gift for two IBDers – his and her bidets, silver plated toilet paper holder, crystal toilet plunger, monogrammed pill boxes, the possibilities are endless. Rebecca No wedding, no gift — – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There is no wedding but if you send a gift and we like it we may reconsider. — DAWN/Bonnie

Response:

Wow it is a small world.

Response:

— DAWN/Bonnie

Response:

ALRIGHT – WAIT A MINUTE! What’s going on here???!!! Rebecca <BG – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — DAWN/Bonnie

Response:

I went to New Orleans and met a great friend from this news group. And I had a wonderful time.

Response:

What a small world!  That is exactly what I did!  I had a wonderful time too.  We will have to compare pictures sometime. — DAWN/Bonnie

Response:

I am going on vacation too for 6 days. Wouldn’t it be funny if we went to the same place. Darren, Didn’t see your message until today.  Where did you go? — DAWN/Bonnie

Response:

  I’m off to Alaska in a couple of hours.  I’ll be gone until after July 4th.  You guys all have fun without me.  Even bogeyman.   Just in case there’s anyone I’ve neglected to alienate so far, I have to pack and won’t be checking back in before I leave, so I won’t see any bon voyage messages.

Well, hell, Rumple-chen, I’m posting one anyway. Haven’t been alienated yet! Say hi to wonderful, big, beautiful, friendly Alaska, where men are men, and women are actually considered people! If they would only dump their corrupt senators and governor! What a falling-off is there, from the late, much-lamented Senator Ernest Gruening, who was one of only two courageous, principled members of Congress to vote against the Tonkin Bay Resolution — the Big Lie that ended up killing so many GIs and Vietnamese. Read about him at, inter alia: http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/sixties-l/1332.html — Polar

Response:

   I’m off to Alaska in a couple of hours.  I’ll be gone until after July 4th.  You guys all have fun without me.  Even bogeyman.    Just in case there’s anyone I’ve neglected to alienate so far, I have to pack and won’t be checking back in before I leave, so I won’t see any bon voyage messages.

Response:

Question:

NEXT TIME TRY A DIFFERENT COLOR IF THAT DON`T WORK TRY A DIFFERENT BAIT , LIKE A ZOOM FLUKE OR A SPOOK .

Response:

Try different sizes and colors. On sunny days use bright colors and on cloudy days use dark colors. When you first cast it out, let it sit for a good while before you twitch it. Then only twitch once or twice and let it sit for a while again. Try working it back like that. Notice for other hatches as well. Your best bet might be a dragon fly imitation instead.   Any advice on what I might have been doing – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -wrong or any tips on how to better induce a strike?

Response:

Make sure you reel in slack and set the hook hard when you get a strike.  Also, you need to tune your eyes on the popper and popper only, otherwise you might miss a quiet strike.  Good fishin. Mike

Response:

I was fishing this weekend at Greers Ferry, Ark.  I tried many different lures.  I finally began using a popper.  I saw several fish come up to the top to check it out and follow it for a few feet and then disappear.  I worked it slowly for a foot or two and then would let it rest, waiting for a strike, then I would "pop" it a bit to stir up the water and so on.  I have never used one before, but it seemed to get their attention.  Any advice on what I might have been doing wrong or any tips on how to better induce a strike? Thanks.

Response:

I was fishing this weekend at Greers Ferry, Ark.  I tried many different lures.  I finally began using a popper.  I saw several fish come up to the top to check it out and follow it for a few feet and then disappear.  I worked it slowly for a foot or two and then would let it rest, waiting for a strike, then I would "pop" it a bit to stir up the water and so on.  I have never used one before, but it seemed to get their attention.  Any advice on what I might have been doing wrong or any tips on how to better induce a strike? Thanks.

Hello, I like poppers in the am and the pm for bass. Spring and fall is top water time. I don’t move them much. I just twitch them a little. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

Response:

Question:

looking for info on fly shops in victoria, bc.  would appreciate info including name of shop and hopefully a phone #.  would prefer a shop within walking distance from the ferry terminal, even if it’s a long walk. thanks in advance, chris

Response:

looking for info on fly shops in victoria, bc.  would appreciate info including name of shop and hopefully a phone #.  would prefer a shop within walking distance from the ferry terminal, even if it’s a long walk. thanks in advance, chris

Chris, you will have a long walk from the ferryto a fly shop, when you get to town look up robinsons sporting goods, if you go up to cowichan or naniamo, cambell river there are more and better shops to look around. Trevor Hanson’s Fishing Outfitter’s    "just add water" 813 First Street SW Calgary, Alberta T2P 1N3 1-888-522-4489 102-580 Hornby Street, Vancouver, B.C. V6C 3B6 1-800-784-3312 (604)684-8988 fax (604)684-8998

Response:

: looking for info on fly shops in victoria, bc.  would appreciate info : including name of shop and hopefully a phone #.  would prefer a shop : within walking distance from the ferry terminal, even if it’s a long walk. Depends on which ferry terminal. The ones from the US side (believe they come from Port Angeles, Anacortes, perhaps both) dock fairly close to downtown. However, most ferry traffic arrives from the Canadian side, leaving the mainland at Tsawassen (near the border, and about an hour south of Vancouver).  These ferries dock at Swartz Bay, which is a good 20 miles east of downtown Victoria.  However, should you choose to walk ;-^), the first town (about 3 miles) is Sydney, and there are three or four "fishing" shops there.  Most are saltwater-oriented (get yer bait herring here!) but all have a few flies and tying supplies. Trail, BC               voice: (250) 368-9315 Canada V1R 2V7          data:  (250) 368-9341

Response:

Question:

says… Hi, I’m planning a trip to the Banff/Lake Louise area in early Sept. Any info re: hotels, guides, expected conditions and how to escape the tourists would be appreciated. Thanks in advance JT

The Bow around Banff will be clear and low – blue winged olives will be the fly to try for rainbows or browns,  or cutthroats in the upper reaches. Rocky mountain whitefish are common, and the odd bull trout (Alberta’s provincial fish) is an interesting possibility.  Lake trout will be on deep trolling only that time of year – but can be a blast with a fly rod and a streamer on a downrigger (makes the purists scream too!) Brookies mainly in the beaverponds and oxbows of the Bow River. Hotels will still be charging high season rates – about double what they are at the end of the month. There is an excellent hostel in Banff, and another one in Lake Louise – you may want to check with your local International Hostel Association for membership/rates. You are (will be) a tourist. But there’s tons of backcountry to ‘escape’ to and a good guide will help.   Try Upper Bow Valley Fly Fishing in Banff- Dan Bell at (403) 760-7668 fax 762-8263 – he a super drift boat guide, has excxellent knowledge of area lakes, or can even arrange for a helicopter trip if you’ve got the budget. My close second choice would be the Green Drake Fly Shop in Canmore (403) 678-9525 fax (403) 678-2183  They do a lot of guiding, and have an excellent little shop that while difficult to find – is worth your while. Free and friendly and specific advise to c&r fishers. Tight lines & short strings Andrew Whittick   Banff Alberta

Response:

Hi, I’m planning a trip to the Banff/Lake Louise area in early Sept. Any info re: hotels, guides, expected conditions and how to escape the tourists would be appreciated. Thanks in advance JT

Response:

says… Hi, I’m planning a trip to the Banff/Lake Louise area in early Sept. Any info re: hotels, guides, expected conditions and how to escape the tourists would be appreciated. Thanks in advance JT

ps – almost forgot when fishing in Canada’s Mountain National Parks – you may not use lead weighted flys or lead weights less than 50 grams. No such restrictions outside of the parks though.  Floating the Bow River from Banff to Canmore will require a National Parl fishing license, and an Alberta license. Both are quite inexepensive (under $20 CDN) Andrew Whittick   Banff Alberta

Response:

Question:

Does anyone know of any other fly fishing groups on the net?

Response:

Does anyone know of any other fly fishing groups on the net?

There is the FLYFISH mailing list, as well as FLYSHOP-list (fly gear for sale) and EUR-FLYFISH (a European version of FLYFISH); all are e-mail based – FLYFISH will provide you with about 100+ messages a day. E-mail me privatley if you want to figure out how to join. There are also fishing forums on CompuServe and one other commercial service (believe Prodigy) — 3798 Woodland Drive     voice: (604) 368-9315 Trail, BC               data:  (604) 368-9341

Response:

I am interested in any and all newsgroups about flyfishing. I would like a list of such groups. Norther California is an area of interest. Thanks for your help. Allen Allen

Response:

Look into the NorCal Fishing group, I think it’s on USENET or one of those.  I access it through 24th St. Exhange BBS, here in Sacto.  I’ll bet your local TU or Caltrout clubs have hecka members online.

Response:

Question:

        Why don’t we start another subnet for flyfishing, and then break down each major cat. so that we can become organized in our net. Something to think about, it’s helped other news groups out alot! GN

Response:

   Why don’t we start another subnet for flyfishing, and then break down each major cat. so that we can become organized in our net. Something to think about, it’s helped other news groups out alot!

The traffic level isn’t high enough to justify creating subgroups.  The flyfishing discussions seem to be coexisting quite well with all the other discussions.   — John Fereira

Response: