Question:

Anybody know what happened to the fly swap that was posted on this newsgroup a while back?  I Emailled the poster and haven’t heard from him. Willi

Response:

Anybody know what happened to the fly swap that was posted on this newsgroup a while back?  I Emailled the poster and haven’t heard from him. Willi

 So did I! perhaps he’s busy? Or a little confused by all the reactions? Hans van der Stroom

Response:

Hans van der Stroom schrieb in Nachricht Anybody know what happened to the fly swap that was posted on this newsgroup a while back?  I Emailled the poster and haven’t heard from him. Willi So did I! perhaps he’s busy? Or a little confused by all the reactions? Hans van der Stroom

I got no reply as yet either. Perhaps he got too many e-mails ? Obviously quite a few people replied. Hope he manages to get it going though. Would be nice to have something a little more tangible from other ROFF members, makes it more personal somehow. Tight Lines ! Mike Connor

Response:

I did the same.  Last I heard from him. Hans van der Stroom schrieb in Nachricht William Loehman heeft geschreven in bericht

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Anybody know what happened to the fly swap that was posted on this newsgroup a while back?  I Emailled the poster and haven’t heard from him. Willi So did I! perhaps he’s busy? Or a little confused by all the reactions? Hans van der Stroom I got no reply as yet either. Perhaps he got too many e-mails ? Obviously quite a few people replied. Hope he manages to get it going though. Would be nice to have something a little more tangible from other ROFF members, makes it more personal somehow. Tight Lines ! Mike Connor

Response:

I got no reply as yet either. Perhaps he got too many e-mails ? Obviously Tight Lines ! Mike Connor

Maybe he’s making a list to sell to phone solicitors…..;] No really. Maybe life intervened. pete

Response:

It was mine, promised it to you somewhere in the Peter Ross thread some time ago. Just forgot to adjust the label. Cheers, Herman Got my package in the mail the other day.  It was a wonderful assortment of flies.  I hope we can get some more info on some of them.  Who was it that was collecting info for a web site? Paul? BTW, who tied the Peter Ross?  Mine was labeled as being an Elk & CDC by Herman. Mu

– Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

Peter Ross was a Scottish barber who combined the now alomost forgotten Teal and Silver and the Teal and Red to a (according to history) very succesful wet fly/attractor. Origins are (top of my head) somewhere late on the last century. I caught more fish on it than I care to remember. Ideal fly for rivers in rainy circumstances and staining water. Fish across and down and have fun! Also very good on lakes. The odd thing about the PR is that it either works for you, or not at all. There’s still some Scottish mystic left in the old pattern I guess.. Pattern: Hook: standard wet fly, normally 8 – 14 Tail: goldpheasant tippets Body: rear 2/3 flat silver, front 1/3 red seal (imitation)       ribbed with silver wire Wing: Teal Hackle: black hen or soft cock, tied to the underside of the hook. Herman, enjoying a wee dram.. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I am collenting the stuff for the web site. Who is Peter Ross? Paul … Got my package in the mail the other day.  It was a wonderful assortment of flies.  I hope we can get some more info on some of them.  Who was it that was collecting info for a web site? Paul? BTW, who tied the Peter Ross?  Mine was labeled as being an Elk & CDC by Herman. Mu

– Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

Ah, thanks Herman, for awhile there I thought I screwed up in picking that one out to give to Mu….the label had me confused. (more than usual, that is) Frank (where am I?) Church

|It was mine, promised it to you somewhere in the Peter Ross thread some |time ago. Just forgot to adjust the label. |Cheers, Herman |

| | Got my package in the mail the other day.  It was a wonderful assortment | of flies.  I hope we can get some more info on some of them.  Who was it | that was collecting info for a web site? Paul? | | BTW, who tied the Peter Ross?  Mine was labeled as being an Elk & CDC by | Herman. | | Mu | |– |Cheers, Herman |Herman Nijland |Daytime webmaster |Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

I thought I was short a fly for a moment because I didn’t see anyflies like that.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ah, thanks Herman, for awhile there I thought I screwed up in picking that one out to give to Mu….the label had me confused. (more than usual, that is) Frank (where am I?) Church |It was mine, promised it to you somewhere in the Peter Ross thread some |time ago. Just forgot to adjust the label. |Cheers, Herman | | | Got my package in the mail the other day.  It was a wonderful assortment | of flies.  I hope we can get some more info on some of them.  Who was it | that was collecting info for a web site? Paul? | | BTW, who tied the Peter Ross?  Mine was labeled as being an Elk & CDC by | Herman. | | Mu | |– |Cheers, Herman |Herman Nijland |Daytime webmaster |Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

‘Twas an exciting day at the Kirkpatrick household yesterday when the Fly Menagerie arrived.  Even my wife, an occasional fflady (between golf and tennis and gardening pursuits), was intrigued.  She especially liked the cute flys with the eyes.  I was duly impressed by the level of fly-tying-skills displayed, all previously expressed caveats, rationalizations, and absurd excuses notwithstanding.  Geez….These guys are GOOD!  I must have obtained the hand-selected display flys that Frank had obtained from some secret source, mimicing the identical fly types purportedly sent by Roffians.  Great job guys.  I too am looking forward to the web site for more info on how and when to fish each fly.  Thanks to all participants. Pat K In article Got my package in the mail the other day.  It was a wonderful assortment of flies.  I hope we can get some more info on some of them.  Who was it that was collecting info for a web site? Paul? BTW, who tied the Peter Ross?  Mine was labeled as being an Elk & CDC by Herman. Mu

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Response:

I’m looking forward to your website paul.  I haven’t got all the names matched up with the flies yet.  Thanks for the effort. — Levi "So long, and thanks for all the fish."

Response:

Speaking of which, is the site up yet Paul?  Got a URL for us?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m looking forward to your website paul.  I haven’t got all the names matched up with the flies yet.  Thanks for the effort.

Response:

It’s taking a little longer than I expected (doesn’t every project). Here is one of the flies: http://www.paul.goodwinweb.com/flyswap2000/grw.jpg It is the Green Rock Worm tied by LaCourse. Nice fly but I had expected he’d tie something with wool. Paul

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Speaking of which, is the site up yet Paul?  Got a URL for us? I’m looking forward to your website paul.  I haven’t got all the names matched up with the flies yet.  Thanks for the effort.

Response:

I just found the pattern in the book by Taff Price "Fly Patterns an international guide" Paul

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Peter Ross was a Scottish barber who combined the now alomost forgotten Teal and Silver and the Teal and Red to a (according to history) very succesful wet fly/attractor. Origins are (top of my head) somewhere late on the last century. I caught more fish on it than I care to remember. Ideal fly for rivers in rainy circumstances and staining water. Fish across and down and have fun! Also very good on lakes. The odd thing about the PR is that it either works for you, or not at all. There’s still some Scottish mystic left in the old pattern I guess.. Pattern: Hook: standard wet fly, normally 8 – 14 Tail: goldpheasant tippets Body: rear 2/3 flat silver, front 1/3 red seal (imitation)       ribbed with silver wire Wing: Teal Hackle: black hen or soft cock, tied to the underside of the hook. Herman, enjoying a wee dram.. Hi, I am collenting the stuff for the web site. Who is Peter Ross? Paul

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – … Got my package in the mail the other day.  It was a wonderful assortment of flies.  I hope we can get some more info on some of them.  Who was it that was collecting info for a web site? Paul? BTW, who tied the Peter Ross?  Mine was labeled as being an Elk & CDC by Herman. Mu — Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

Came home tonight to find the most unlikely collection of bugs imaginable on my doorstep.  Everything from dandruff to this big red lobster-lookin thing that looks like more than a match for any fish I’ve ever caught.  Really nice looking set of flies, and quite a few patterns I’ve never even heard of.  Considering the number of people who claimed to be beginners, I am really impressed by how nice these things all look.  Of course there were a couple that were conspicuous by their absence.  All drop-outs have to tie double next year! ;

Question:

Tony, Thanks for the tip. Do you know if Bonda PU Power Adhesive can be purchased in the USA? Thanks. Bob E.

Bob, it is available here from a few companies. The brand I’ve used is called Gorrila Glue. Woodworking supply stores will have one brand or another. Use this stuff carefully, it is messy and does not clean up easily. Bob Smith Before you buy.

Response:

If it air cures, does that mean it will take a very long time to cure since the adhesive will be buried between cork and graphite?

Hi Mu, I think ‘cures’ rather than ‘dries’ is the operative word. The adhesive reacts to the moisture in the air or in the material being glued. It probably wouldn’t hurt to dunk the cork handle in water for a few minutes, then pat dry the excess water, before using this PU adhesive (see article in link below). I think Bob Smith has a better handle (’scuse the pun) on this than I have. Thanks, Bob, for your input. But try this for more info: www.woodworking.com/magazine/jul96/poly/ I’ll certainly be giving this stuff a trial for my next rod building project. Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

Response:

I was very interested to learn that his company now recommends a polyurethane adhesive. This stuff requires no mixing. It air cures, reacting to moisture in the air or in the timber, etc. that is being joined. Most importantly, this adhesive ‘foams’ slightly and fills up any space between the cork and the blank, where the reaming has not been exact.

If it air cures, does that mean it will take a very long time to cure since the adhesive will be buried between cork and graphite? Mu

Response:

In article <Pine.SOL.4.10.10003122128550.5607- – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was very interested to learn that his company now recommends a polyurethane adhesive. This stuff requires no mixing. It air cures, reacting to moisture in the air or in the timber, etc. that is being joined. Most importantly, this adhesive ‘foams’ slightly and fills up any space between the cork and the blank, where the reaming has not been exact. If it air cures, does that mean it will take a very long time to cure since the adhesive will be buried between cork and graphite? Mu

Mu, the glue will dry as fast as the stated time on the label. A little faster if the surfaces to be glued are slightly damp. Moisture helps it cure. You only put the glue on one surface of the two to be glued. I use this stuff in my woodworking the rare times I have to glue up two dissimilar surfaces. Wood to metal or Corian etc. So it’ll work well for handles to fly rods.  Two things tho. It is not reversable and if you get any on bare ( bear ? ) skin you’ll have a nice dark brown stain to wear for a week or so. Nothing cleans this stuff up. Tape off the rod blank also at front and rear of the handle. The foam also sticks to anything it touches.  Bob Smith Before you buy.

Response:

Tony, Thanks for the tip. Do you know if Bonda PU Power Adhesive can be purchased in the USA? Thanks. Bob E. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We had a club meeting the other night and I bumped into an old acquaintance who is managing director of one of the leading wholesale suppliers of top quality cork rod handles in the UK. I first met him at a fly fishing show about 10 years ago and that meeting prompted me to write an article on cork that was published in one of our game fishing magazines. During our conversation the other night, the subject of gluing cork handles to blanks cropped up. I was very interested to learn that his company now recommends a polyurethane adhesive. This stuff requires no mixing. It air cures, reacting to moisture in the air or in the timber, etc. that is being joined. Most importantly, this adhesive ‘foams’ slightly and fills up any space between the cork and the blank, where the reaming has not been exact. Apparently, this PU adhesive is slightly resilient and works easily. My friend assured me that this stuff was much better suited to the application than epoxies, that are often recommended. The brand he sells is called ‘Bonda PU Power Adhesive’ and it sells (here) for about

Question:

Hello, Does any one have any suggestions for white water rafting or freshwater fishing in the Cairns area? My wife and I will be renting a motorhome for two weeks in may. Also what is the cost and procedures for obtaining a fishing license for a US citizen? Thanks Terry Guerrero

Response:

Terry, There are many options in Cairns for both activities. Most of the whitewater trips are on the Tully River – though others use the south Johnstone River also. The best freshwater fishing is in Lake Tinaroo – mind you that’s not fly fishing, the target fish are barramundi. John Hello, Does any one have any suggestions for white water rafting or freshwater fishing in the Cairns area? My wife and I will be renting a motorhome for two weeks in may. Also what is the cost and procedures for obtaining a fishing license for a US citizen? Thanks Terry Guerrero

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Response:

There is also White Water Rafting on the Barron River and there are some multi-day rafting adventures. The most popular one and supposedly the best is the Tully River, it is a full day trip and is being offered by 2 companies, Raging Thunder and R&R. Both are exactly the same price (app. AUD 130,-) and raft exactly the same stretch of river and have lunch at exactly the same spot. Both offer a light meal afterwards, have videos and pictures on sale etc. I have done the trip with both of them and the only real difference I could detect was the "clubhouse" not that one was better than the other but Raging Thunder had a little bit more atmosphere. Most important for your trip are the equipment, appeared to be in good condition at both companies, and the river guides. I had 2 completely different individuals as a guide but both seemed to be very competent. You will find plenty of brochures of both companies once you get to the area, they are also on the internet (somewhere). good luck, Peter – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Terry, There are many options in Cairns for both activities. Most of the whitewater trips are on the Tully River – though others use the south Johnstone River also. The best freshwater fishing is in Lake Tinaroo – mind you that’s not fly fishing, the target fish are barramundi. John Hello, Does any one have any suggestions for white water rafting or freshwater fishing in the Cairns area? My wife and I will be renting a motorhome for two weeks in may. Also what is the cost and procedures for obtaining a fishing license for a US citizen? Thanks Terry Guerrero   http://www.newsfeeds.com       The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!

==—–

Response:

Hi Terry For White Water Rafting I went with Raging Thunder on their full day Tully River option, talk about fun!!! http://www.ragingthunder.com.au For Fishing I would recommend Fishing the Tropics. They offer river and estuary fishing depending on what you want to do. They are local guides with alot of knowledge on fishing in the Cairns area. http://www.fishingthetropics.com.au Enjoy your stay. Shil – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, Does any one have any suggestions for white water rafting or freshwater fishing in the Cairns area? My wife and I will be renting a motorhome for two weeks in may. Also what is the cost and procedures for obtaining a fishing license for a US citizen? Thanks Terry Guerrero

Response:

Do you recommend the day trip on the Tully River? Is it quite exciting? Last summer we made a rafting day trip on the Zambezi River in Vic Falls Zimbabwe, that was great fun but also quite dangerous. Every raft flipped on this river. Anne Marie

Response:

Question:

Beleive it or not, we have discussed it. If your looking for answers to your walleye questions why not join The Walleye List, the Internet

Question:

I can relate to both sides of this arguement for many reasons. As a long time worm fisherman I used to keep all the trout that got hooked so badly they would die anyway. I never considered the fact that using bait caused many more fish to be gut hooked because I was not a passive fisherman. Constant vigilence and setting the hook instantly on any change of line drift or tension resulted in 99% of my fish being hooked in the mouth and easily released. If I brought home 3 fish a week it was lucky and my family loved fresh trout grilled over an open fire.     Then I discovered flyfishing. I started fishing dry flies and watched the number of trout I caught rise at an incredible rate. catching 3 or 4 fish a day was not uncommon. (love those adirondack small streams) and I didnt seem to hurt any more than I did when fishing terratus(from the scientific term for earthworm). this time frame also includes the time when the state made a flyfish only, no kill section of the west branch of the Ausable river in northern ny.     More time has passed and now I can drop a size 20 dry on a7x tippet without a splash and the catch count can get over 30 fish a day, still very low on the casualty rate. Life and reality deal me some shitty blows, unemployment, single parenting, all combine to make fishing a necessity. (hope you never have to explain to your kids why there are no "snacks"  in the house) and yet I find myself unable to change my ways and still only keep the gut hooked fish. Maybe i’m a little slower on the trigger on purpose but rules you make for yourself are harder to break. So we are eating trout 3 days a week (and lots of macaroni and cheese) My eight year old son takes up fly fishing and endorses catch and release whole heartedly, lets every fish go back. But still prefers the ones dad catches over Mrs. Pauls. the center brook is an easy walk from home and loaded with little rainbows from a local dec hatchery so you dont even have to feel guilty if you keep a couple. But the big native brown trout are always set free. The catch and release section of the Ausable gives us tons of pleasure. it’s turning out some very large fish and the state decides to help by stepping up the stocking program.     Time goes on. My son now a gangly ten year old with legs like a three weight rod has become a better fly fisherman than I ever dreamed of being. compared to his presentation, I seem to beat the water to a froth. Times are a little better the wolves are no longer knocking on the door. We’ve graduated to bamboo and don’t get to fish as often as we like but still we’re eating fis two or three times a week. fishing the trophy section of the ausable a couple times a month but the trophy trout are gone. the no kill has become a no skill area loaded with stocked trout who haven’t been in the water long enought to get wet.     so whats the bottom line (#3 weight forward sinking haha). Im not exactly sure. the fly fishing only area managed the way all the books say is right has gone to hell. the other sections of the Ausable where things were left alone and people can remove some of the dumber fish still produces large fish. The flume pool just below the catch and release produces a few 6 pounders every year. The little brook near home still produces large browns. I released a for pounder in july from a pool not over eight feet wide and 18 inches deep. There are enough little stockers to keep the kids happy without being overdone. The fish seem healthy and plentiful. So the best policy seems to be let nature take it’s course. maybe a little nudge to help repair damage we did in the past, but don’t try to force anything on anyone. Only make small changes and if it doesn’t work change it back. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it.     As far as animal rights, I  feel that has to be made on a personal basis. if you don’t want to eat animals than don’t,  but I don’t eat vegetables. So, since I would rather not starve I guess I will keep the grill for now, not worry about the carrots and onoins being so alive that they would grow if put back in their natural environment. Since the hook probably hurts the fish less than the hole I allowed some teen aged nitwit at the mall to put in my sons ear, (let’s not go there please) I won’t loose any sleep over the trauma I put them thru

Response:

 Life and reality deal me some shitty blows, unemployment, single parenting, all combine to make fishing a necessity. (hope you never have to explain to your kids why there are no "snacks"  in the house)

I don’t know if you live on the banks of the Ausable or some other attractive water – but in a similar situation I could never justify fishing even if I brought a fish or two home – the cost of gas for the car alone would buy more food for the table then I could ever catch and kill. Ralph H remove "(take_this_out)" for email reply.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Life and reality deal me some shitty blows, unemployment, single parenting, all combine to make fishing a necessity. (hope you never have to explain to your kids why there are no "snacks"  in the house) I don’t know if you live on the banks of the Ausable or some other attractive water – but in a similar situation I could never justify fishing even if I brought a fish or two home – the cost of gas for the car alone would buy more food for the table then I could ever catch and kill. Ralph H remove "(take_this_out)" for email reply.

        good grief, ralph:  the guy clearly states that he lives "within walking distance of the central brook", where he keeps the fish his family needed to survive.  then he continues an innocently profound post that goes right to the heart of your obsession, and you choose to jump in his shit about anal retentive economics, the basis of which is hopelessly flawed, factually and conceptually.         you are sometimes a real handfull, ralph.           a. wayne harrison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Thanks for pointing that out to me Wayne. Where would I be without you? Ralph H – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –         good grief, ralph:  the guy clearly states that he lives "within walking distance of the central brook", where he keeps the fish his family needed to survive.  then he continues an innocently profound post that goes right to the heart of your obsession, and you choose to jump in his shit about anal retentive economics, the basis of which is hopelessly flawed, factually and conceptually.         you are sometimes a real handfull, ralph.         a. wayne harrison

Response:

Thanks for pointing that out to me Wayne. Where would I be without you?         well, ralph, that is a truly profound question, one that i doubt i can honestly answer.

or answer honestly for that matter! Ralph H – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –         good grief, ralph:  the guy clearly states that he lives "within walking distance of the central brook", where he keeps the fish his family needed to survive.  then he continues an innocently profound post that goes right to the heart of your obsession, and you choose to jump in his shit about anal retentive economics, the basis of which is hopelessly flawed, factually and conceptually.         you are sometimes a real handfull, ralph.         a. wayne harrison

Response:

Thanks for pointing that out to me Wayne. Where would I be without you?

        well, ralph, that is a truly profound question, one that i doubt i can honestly answer.  given your relentless propensity for egocentric analysis, my best bet would be that you would be utterly the same without me as you are with me, and the rest of humanity, for that matter.         a. wayne harrison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Ralph H         good grief, ralph:  the guy clearly states that he lives "within walking distance of the central brook", where he keeps the fish his family needed to survive.  then he continues an innocently profound post that goes right to the heart of your obsession, and you choose to jump in his shit about anal retentive economics, the basis of which is hopelessly flawed, factually and conceptually.         you are sometimes a real handfull, ralph.         a. wayne harrison

Response:

Question:

Hi All, A friend has asked me to build what is know as an AuSable river boat.  It is a flat bottom skiff type boat commonly used for fly fishing on the AuSable river here in Michigan.  It may be similar to an adirondack guide boat. If anyone can point me to resources that may help me sort this out such as websites, pics etc.  I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks, Craig "Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government"

Response:

OK Craig – you asked for it!!! are as goodat helping out as the people here (I know, some days I’m incredulous too ). Wait a minute! about anything boat related, like maybe skiff AND plans (or something). There are a gazillion books of plans — maybe not the AuSable river boat, but certainly something very much like it, and probably using modern construction techniques and materials.   For starters:  Build the New Instant Boats — Dynamite Payson                  American Small Sailing Craft — Howard Chapelle                  Forty Wooden Boats (also 30 and 50 wooden boats)                          by WoodenBoat Magazine http://www.woodenboat.com                  ANTYHING by WoodenBoat                  ANYTHING by Phil Bolger (Boats with an Open Mind is fun reading) Check out http://www.amazon.com for more books. No doubt someone else will jump in with really good advice, and I’ll bow to his/her superior knowledge. BTW – remember that boat building  (and all woodworking) is supposed to be fun.  For boats in particular, you can generally buy a ready-made boat cheaper than you can build one, so, if you do not WANT to build, and I mean really want to build, tell your friend to find something used and buy it. Have fun, and good luck with your search Rob (building a Sinepuxent skiff from Smithsonian plans) Weaver – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, A friend has asked me to build what is know as an AuSable river boat.  It is a flat bottom skiff type boat commonly used for fly fishing on the AuSable river here in Michigan.  It may be similar to an adirondack guide boat. If anyone can point me to resources that may help me sort this out such as websites, pics etc.  I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks, Craig "Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government"

Response:

Question:

Is there any spey rod manufacturer? Most manufacturer call them two handed rods, but they don’t respond to true speycasting, they are too stiff. Are there any soft action two handed rods out there? Does ST.CRIOX make a spey or two handed rod? Remove the * in the e-mail address, this is for SPAM.

Response:

  Is there any spey rod manufacturer? Most manufacturer call them two   handed rods, but they don’t respond to true speycasting, they are too   stiff.

How do you know this?  Have you tried any of these rods to which you refer.  I fish with a friend of mine who uses a sage 1015-3 (a very stiff rod) and he can spey cast like mad – and he can throw sink tips on the end of a double taper with ease.  I think it is a myth to say that you can’t spey cast with a stiffer rod – it’s just not how they used to do it on the river spey because they didn’t have materials to make stiff rods.  Are there any soft action two handed rods out   there? Does ST.CRIOX make a spey or two handed rod?

Yes.  Try the Sage 9140-4.  It is a soft rod, and the rod that I happen to use (and love).  St. Croix makes a pretty nice rod though it seems quite heavy to me – it is reasonably priced though. From your questions, it sounds like you need to get down to a decent shop and put your hands on some rods.  All the talk in the world on this group isn’t going to help. Once again: GO to a decent shop and try some out.  If you live in the Seattle, WA area, I can recommend some places. -tgades — Tony Gades. Seattle, WA.  USA http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades/Fishing/fish_page.html NOTICE: DO NOT ADD MY NAME TO _ANY_ MAILING LISTS.  

Response:

Is there any spey rod manufacturer? Most manufacturer call them two handed rods, but they don’t respond to true speycasting, they are too stiff. Are there any soft action two handed rods out there? Does ST.CRIOX make a spey or two handed rod? Remove the * in the e-mail address, this is for SPAM.

try Winston Rods at www.winstonrods.com also Hardy and Bruce and Walker, two English makers have a reputation for making so called true spey rods but you might have a problem sourcing those rods to try. Hardy rods were once popular here in Canada but are now hard to come by as are B&W’s. Some Sage rods are of that type but I don’t know the specifics Ralph H note spurious hyperbole, insults and ‘personal attacks’ made by the author are meant to honour "the Soul of Cicero" and are not intended as personal slights. Please don’t take offense as none is intended. remove "(take_this_out)" for email reply.

Response:

  Is there any spey rod manufacturer? Most manufacturer call them two   handed rods, but they don’t respond to true speycasting, they are too   stiff. How do you know this?  Have you tried any of these rods to which you refer.  I fish with a friend of mine who uses a sage 1015-3 (a very stiff rod) and he can spey cast like mad – and he can throw sink tips on the end of a double taper with ease.  I think it is a myth to say that you can’t spey cast with a stiffer rod – it’s just not how they used to do it on the river spey because they didn’t have materials to make stiff rods.

since I’ve been interested in Speycasting I’ve heard that there are 2 kinds of double handed rods –  stiff rods for overhead casting and speyrods. I think Mike Maxwell of Vancouver BC and author of "The Art and Science of Speyfishing" coined the term ‘true speyrod’ – to describe his own line of rods I believe.  Other ‘experts’ such as Ehor Boyanowski and the late Roger Turner have said and written much the same thing According to Maxwell ‘true speyrods’ display a compound flex when speycasting (which is something like but not the same as roll casting) like a stylized S but with a big curve at the butt and a small curve at the tip. According to Maxwell stiff rods can’t do this and speycasts can only be ‘approximated’. Turner and Boyanowski have said much the same thing – but as they like Mr Shoalseeker and myself are Vancouver area boys like Maxwell could be we’ve just all been exposed to the same dogma – anyone else have any experience with this particularly in Great Britain and Scandanavia? From your questions, it sounds like you need to get down to a decent shop and put your hands on some rods.  All the talk in the world on this group isn’t going to help.

good advice. Ralph H note spurious hyperbole, insults and ‘personal attacks’ made by the author are meant to honour "the Soul of Cicero" and are not intended as personal slights. Please don’t take offense as none is intended. remove "(take_this_out)" for email reply.

Response:

This is from an article in "Fisherman’s Handbook" from 1977 which seems relevant to this discussion. Carbon fibre rods were just available when this was written. "Most salmon fly rods today have an action which may be felt through from the heavy tip to the butt. A tip with this fairly rigid action is required because of the need to "mend" the line or straighten it out. This need arises when the strength of the current varies at different points across the stream and the line is pulled into a bow shape as it is carried downstream. this in turn carries the fly back across the flow at an unnatural angle, making it unacceptable to the salmon. The fisherman must then roll the line to mend it as the bow not only presents the fly unfavourably but also lessens the effectiveness of a strike should there be, by any odd chance, a take. A heavy tipped rod enables a weighty length of double tapered line to be lifted off the water and mended with reasonable ease." The article also points out that before carbon fibre, built cane with spliced joints was the favoured choice as it resisted the twisting force better exerted by Spey casting. — Regards Peter (Remove "nospam"to email)

<snip  : :According to Maxwell stiff rods can’t do this and speycasts can only be :’approximated’. Turner and Boyanowski have said much the same thing – :but as they like Mr Shoalseeker and myself are Vancouver area boys like :Maxwell could be we’ve just all been exposed to the same dogma – : :anyone else have any experience with this particularly in Great Britain :and Scandanavia?

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A good spey caster can easily adjust the speed of the casting stroke and use any rod to their advantage.  This distinction between "over head rods" and "true spey rods" is also not particularly useful. In addition to casting characteristics, one should consider what kind of fishing he/she is going to do with a rod. I fish for steelhead in medium to big rivers, and I like to fish lazily. I hate to repeat shooting and striping line. I just roll/Spey cast long line (to me, at least, 70 feet or so) and swing the fly. Step down and repeat the process. It is so easy and efficient. (Effective? I am not sure because I hook steelhead every 30 hours or so.) For this kind of fishing, a slow rod gives me a peaceful feeling. I can enjoy more the surrounding as well as fishing.

- this pretty much agrees with what Maxwell says about stiff overhead rods vs slow rods; they are easier to spey cast and less tiresome to use through the day…. Ralph H note spurious hyperbole, insults and ‘personal attacks’ made by the author are meant to honour "the Soul of Cicero" and are not intended as personal slights. Please don’t take offense as none is intended. remove "(take_this_out)" for email reply.

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Buy a spey rod from the home of spey casting (Scotland). Esthectically gorgeous, designed and built by reknowned cane rod builder David Norwich. David Norwich Icon Composites Hillside Works, Fountainhall, Nr. Galashiels,  TD1 2SU, Scotland from the USA dial 011 441  578 760 310 – Ken

Is there any spey rod manufacturer? Most manufacturer call them two handed

rods, but they don’t – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -respond to true speycasting, they are too stiff. Are there any soft action two handed rods out there? Does ST.CRIOX make a spey or two handed rod? Remove the * in the e-mail address, this is for SPAM.

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A good spey caster can easily adjust the speed of the casting stroke and use any rod to their advantage.  This distinction between "over head rods" and "true spey rods" is also not particularly useful.  What IS useful is going to a decent shop where you can try (with the guidance of a knowledgable speycaster) several rods which span the range of actions.

I totally agree. If Spey casting is redirected roll casting, as I understand, it can be performed equally well with either fast "overhead/European-style" rods or slow "traditional Spey" rods. You just have to adjust your tempo of casting to the characteristics of a particular rods. I have used a G. Loomis’ very stiff and jerky IMX 8/9 weight 15 footer and a Winston’s soft and smooth 10 weight 15 footer. I prefer the Winston because it is just a joy to roll/Spey cast with it. I would say it is more forgiving. However, I could do with the Loomis everything I can do with the Winston. Actually, I could do at least two thing better with the Loomis than with the Winston. The Loomis could lift more line more easily than the Winston. And it is fun to overhead cast with the Loomis. I could cast further with the Loomis, too. In addition to casting characteristics, one should consider what kind of fishing he/she is going to do with a rod. I fish for steelhead in medium to big rivers, and I like to fish lazily. I hate to repeat shooting and striping line. I just roll/Spey cast long line (to me, at least, 70 feet or so) and swing the fly. Step down and repeat the process. It is so easy and efficient. (Effective? I am not sure because I hook steelhead every 30 hours or so.) For this kind of fishing, a slow rod gives me a peaceful feeling. I can enjoy more the surrounding as well as fishing. — Shinji Unno                     Karaoke Party in Seattle, WA, USA? Also a steelhead fly fisher               http://www.sbkaraoke.com

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     Is there any spey rod manufacturer? Most manufacturer call them two     handed rods, but they don’t respond to true speycasting, they are too     stiff.   How do you know this?  Have you tried any of these rods to which you   refer.  I fish with a friend of mine who uses a sage 1015-3 (a very stiff   rod) and he can spey cast like mad – and he can throw sink tips   on the end of a double taper with ease.  I think it is a myth to say   that you can’t spey cast with a stiffer rod – it’s just not how they   used to do it on the river spey because they didn’t have materials to   make stiff rods.   since I’ve been interested in Speycasting I’ve heard that there are   2 kinds of double handed rods –  stiff rods for overhead casting and   speyrods. I think Mike Maxwell of Vancouver BC and author of "The Art and   Science of Speyfishing" coined the term ‘true speyrod’ – to describe   his own line of rods I believe.  

I’m quite familiar with the dogma, but I’ll stick by my statements. Note however, that I own a sage 9140-4 – the softest spey rod they make.  Partly out of luck, and partly I prefer the slower action.  As I say, my fishing buddy uses a 9150-3 – a very stiff stick – and casts a beautiful and tremendous line.  I don’t know what the hell it means to "only approximate a true spey cast" – nor can I possibly understand how such a notion is useful (especially to a beginner trying to find a new rod). A good spey caster can easily adjust the speed of the casting stroke and use any rod to their advantage.  This distinction between "over head rods" and "true spey rods" is also not particularly useful.  What IS useful is going to a decent shop where you can try (with the guidance of a knowledgable speycaster) several rods which span the range of actions.   Seriously, there is no better advice available than that contained in the previous sentence. As I say, I’d be happy to suggest a shop in the Seattle area. -tgades — Tony Gades. Seattle, WA.  USA http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades/Fishing/fish_page.html NOTICE: DO NOT ADD MY NAME TO _ANY_ MAILING LISTS.  

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Question:

I’ve got Chesapeake Light Craft Boats and Pygmy Boats Inc. Does anyone have other kit makers for wood/fiberclass ocean boats? Any experiences good or bad with building a wood boat? Annie Oakley’s Casting & Blasting Page, shooting and fly fishing links: http://members.tripod.com/~AnnieOakley/CastAndBlast.html "Web Poison"–FREE anti-spam software:http://www.e-scrub.com/wpoison/ Phoney Spam-Bot Link: http://www.e-scrub.com/cgi-bin/wpoison/wpoison.cgi

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Nomad Sea Kayaks.  I have been told they make a good kit. http://www.clic.net/~nomad/ Mark

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Nomad Sea Kayaks.  I have been told they make a good kit. http://www.clic.net/~nomad/

I was considering one when I bought my kayak but couldn’t find anyone that knew anything about them. They are also fiberglass only, not wood/fiberglass.   The Guillemott boats (wood) look interesting as well: http://www.guillemot-kayaks.com/ I saw a boat in shop in Duck, NC (outer banks) a couple of weeks ago.  It had a fiberglass hull with a wood deck with wood hatch covers.  I have no idea what kind of kit it was built from but the owner of the shop built it and was selling it for $450. Seemed like a real good deal. John Fereira

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I have the opportunity to teach up outside of Bethel.  I’m very much aware of the difference in geography and the general feel of the area. I’d be interested in any input from someone who has been there as to what sorts of outdoors activities can be done there.  Thanks. well, subsistence outdoor activities (hunting, fishing, gathering wild plant foods and medicines) are the culture in the area.  i mean those folks really do live off the land, and they usually waste absolutely nothing.  i mean that when they trap for muskrats, they not only sell the fur, they make muskrat soup and the meal is not considered over until everyone has cracked the bones and sucked out the marrow.  then the trapper returns the cleaned bones to the area where the animal was killed, to honor its spirit. this culture has very different values than you are probably used to, and a world view that is alien to most white folks.  if you are really considering moving to the YK delta to teach, you should immediately cross-cultural communication, a video of a college lecture series by father michael oleksa, a russian orthodox priest married to a yup’ik woman from aniak.   from a strictly "sports" point of view, this is a very wet river delta area, very rich in fish and wildlife.  small boats and float planes are the primary means of transportation in summer, and snowmobiles in the winter.  the kuskokwin and its tributaries are the primary transportation corridors. you’re starting a little late to move this year, because most folks order their winter groceries early in the spring so they can be delivered by boat during the summer. be prepared for *severe* culture shock.

I once had a chance to teach in Barrow.  But I turned it down and stayed in Kenai area instead.  I had heard it can be tough for a non-native to function up there, that it’s a very closed place to "foreigners" (although some of my friends love it out in the bush).  In the end, eventhough I love the outdoors, "cross-cultural" experiences, and am a fanatical wilderness camper, I just didn’t want to live somewhere where I couldn’t get in my car and leave once in the while on the weekend.  You do have to be willing to try to live there, get to know people, and don’t think just because you make a lot of money that you can afford to fly out of there anytime you want. I do recall that once in a biology class, we were dissecting cats and a Yup’ik girl said something to the effect, "Why don’t we do seals?"  She said she could cut up a seal in fairly short period of time (I don’t remember what it was).  To which I replied, "If we cut up a seal in the lab, we won’t be able to eat it since the lab is full of chemicals and stuff.  We’d have to throw it away."  She thought that was a pretty good answer. I now work with, at least, a couple of Apache students every year.  One of the most difficult things to get them to participate in the class.  They don’t talk much.  Although I admire the fact that, unlike whites, Apaches only talk when they really have something to say, don’t feel the need to impress everyone by being clever or running their gums constantly, and they spend a lot of time listening, it does kind of make white man educational methods a bit difficult to use. My most interesting native job prospect turned out to not be interesting.  I once applied for a job on the south rim of the Grand Canyon.  My thinking was that I could be in the boonies, maybe get to know some of the natives, but still be able to get away once in the while on the weekends.  I had a telephone interview which seemed to go pretty well.  But when I got out a map, I couldn’t find the town on it.  So I called back for that information, got it, and hung up.  About 30 minutes laters, a member of the search committee called me back and in a serious voice said, "The committee feels that there is something you need to know about this town.  Many of the people here are polygamous Mormons.  Your wife won’t be able to work here and you will probably want to live in St. George, UT which a more normal town."   Well, I decided I wasn’t quite that adventurous.  However, if either Barrow or northern Arizona call again, I think I’m ready for it. Quotes of the Week:   I have learned that the swiftest traveler is he that goes afoot." "To make a railroad round the world available to all mankind is equivalent to grading the whole surface of the planet." Walden, Henry David Thoreau

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I have the opportunity to teach up outside of Bethel.  I’m very much aware of the difference in geography and the general feel of the area. I’d be interested in any input from someone who has been there as to what sorts of outdoors activities can be done there.  Thanks.

well, subsistence outdoor activities (hunting, fishing, gathering wild plant foods and medicines) are the culture in the area.  i mean those folks really do live off the land, and they usually waste absolutely nothing.  i mean that when they trap for muskrats, they not only sell the fur, they make muskrat soup and the meal is not considered over until everyone has cracked the bones and sucked out the marrow.  then the trapper returns the cleaned bones to the area where the animal was killed, to honor its spirit. this culture has very different values than you are probably used to, and a world view that is alien to most white folks.  if you are really considering moving to the YK delta to teach, you should immediately cross-cultural communication, a video of a college lecture series by father michael oleksa, a russian orthodox priest married to a yup’ik woman from aniak.   from a strictly "sports" point of view, this is a very wet river delta area, very rich in fish and wildlife.  small boats and float planes are the primary means of transportation in summer, and snowmobiles in the winter.  the kuskokwin and its tributaries are the primary transportation corridors. you’re starting a little late to move this year, because most folks order their winter groceries early in the spring so they can be delivered by boat during the summer. be prepared for *severe* culture shock. Unsolicited commercial email to my corrected address is subject to prosecution under 47 USC 227(b)(1).  E-mail and Reply-to disguised to prevent Spam and to suggest that SPAMBOTs which harvest sigfiles will like replies Virtual Juneau          http://www.alaska.net/~dpharris

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snip  and Reply-to disguised to prevent Spam and to suggest that SPAMBOTs which harvest sigfiles will like replies Virtual Juneau          http://www.alaska.net/~dpharris

Dennis ‘hit the nail on the head’! By the way…which village is it? Steve

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I have the opportunity to teach up outside of Bethel.  I’m very much aware of the difference in geography and the general feel of the area. I’d be interested in any input from someone who has been there as to what sorts of outdoors activities can be done there.  Thanks.

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Question:

There are ways to get a Sage for cheaper than the normal price.  I got my 590 RPL+ for quite a bit less than retail and its the same rod, brand new, not a second and I love it.

Don’t keep us in suspense…. I’m looking for a RPL Rick

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You mean the inverse of capitalism – capitalism is when market demand determines the price not when a supplier controls the price. If all of us stopped buying because the price was too high then the prices would come down. That would be capitalism at work.

Exactly!  If Sage can’t send enough rods out the door, they’ll go to their distributors and lower the price.  In addition, your point is also an example of why the "price-setting" issue is legal.  As long as consumers have an opportunity to purchase other manufacturer’s similar goods (Orvis, Redington, etc), without fear that manufacturers are working in concert to keep prices high, the system (capitalism) will work.  I also think that many of us draw capitalism out to more than it truly is.  Your example shows only a possible by-product of capitalism.  The only inherent principle in capitalism is that of an economic system that allows for the private ownership of industry. My original intent with the first post was to show that, at least under the current laws, Sage’s (and others) policy on rod prices is legal. Federal Anti-Trust and price-fixing laws deal specifically with a group of manufacturers acting together to either restrict trade or keep prices high (or both).  What a single manufacturer does or doesn’t do with their products is, for the most part, entirely up to them and not currently addressed under law (as far as I know).  The moral or ethical considerations of a manufacturer’s policy is another thing entirely, and one that I probably agree with you on. Jerry Cobb Nashville, TN

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two of my favorite rods are a 3 an 5 wt. redington.  great action and the price is right ( for me).

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David, I have the model 490, 4 weight, Sage RPL+.  I’m not an experienced flyfisherman, and only have two other rods I’ve used extensively.  I started with a Wal-Mart special, moved up to the Sage, and also own an Orvis superfine 6 weight.  The Sage is stiffer, more powerful, and I fish it the most.  The Orvis flexes more easily and I have to force myself to wait longer between the backcast and forward cast to use it effectively. I would recommend you definitly try different rods and find one that suits your style or speed.  I can’t cast that far and still find that the majority of the fish I catch are within half my maximum range.   Look for a rod that you enjoy casting and you wouldn’t mind using all day. Good Luck. Ronny

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: I am thinking about trying a RPL+, and have recently been looking at : some of the spring catalogues for prices.  Does everyone charge list : price (or close to it) or is there someplace that offers at least some : discount?  There must be some entrepreneurs out there  who are willing : to take a little less to make a sale. Sage sets the price. — Jeff Smith                                     Graduate student http://www.msc.cornell.edu/~jeffs         Cornell University, Ithaca, NY

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Smith) writes: : I am thinking about trying a RPL+, and have recently been looking at : some of the spring catalogues for prices.  Does everyone charge list : price (or close to it) or is there someplace that offers at least some : discount?  There must be some entrepreneurs out there  who are willing : to take a little less to make a sale. Sage sets the price.

Although I’m not an antitrust lawyer, I seem to recall from lawschool that such "prics setting (i.e., price fixing)" is illegal and can land one in Leavenworth.  I recognize that Sage (or Orvis etc.) can suggest a retail price but I believe any effort to enforce it on independent dealers would be illegal.

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I currently own several Sage SP rods and din’t even look twice at the new RPL+ rods when they came out.  I spent two weeks in Montana last October and my partner was fishing his brand new RPL+ 590-4.  I asked to cast it one day while we waited to load our drift boat, well the short story is that my wife is currently fishing with some darn nice Sage SP’s and I own two RPL+ series rods. 590-5 and 896-4, I have not been a big fan of four piece rods in the past, but I think you will find that these rods are amazingly easy to cast and shoot lots of line.   I kept my 390sp for my BWO & PMD fishing, but for most of my fishing the RPL+ is my new rod of choice. Cast one! Pask

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: Smith) writes:

: : Sage sets the price. : : Although I’m not an antitrust lawyer, I seem to recall from lawschool : that such "prics setting (i.e., price fixing)" is illegal and can land : one in Leavenworth.  I recognize that Sage (or Orvis etc.) can suggest : a retail price but I believe any effort to enforce it on independent : dealers would be illegal. I talked to a guy at Dan Bailey’s who told me that Sage tells them what price they can sell the rod for.  As I did some looking around, I found that Bailey’s had the same price as everyone else.  You can check the sage website (http://www.sageflyfish.com/) to get the prices.  Prices are "suggested retail", but maybe if you undercut the price Sage might forget to supply the retailer the next year.  We’ve had a discussion about this before- I forget what the final upshot was. — Jeff Smith                                     Graduate student http://www.msc.cornell.edu/~jeffs         Cornell University, Ithaca, NY

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -: Although I’m not an antitrust lawyer, I seem to recall from lawschool : that such "prics setting (i.e., price fixing)" is illegal and can land : one in Leavenworth.  I recognize that Sage (or Orvis etc.) can suggest : a retail price but I believe any effort to enforce it on independent : dealers would be illegal. I talked to a guy at Dan Bailey’s who told me that Sage tells them what price they can sell the rod for.  As I did some looking around, I found that Bailey’s had the same price as everyone else.  You can check the sage website (http://www.sageflyfish.com/) to get the prices.  Prices are "suggested retail", but maybe if you undercut the price Sage might forget to supply the retailer the next year.

 I wonder if any lawyers at the Justice Department are flyfisherman or read this group. Mike Ray Atlatna, Ga Cashiers, NC  

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There are ways to get a Sage for cheaper than the normal price.  I got my 590 RPL+ for quite a bit less than retail and its the same rod, brand new, not a second and I love it.  If anyone was paying attention about 3 months ago I was trying to sell one for under retail but got no takers so I basically gave it to my fishing partner for Christmas.  

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Although I’m not an antitrust lawyer, I seem to recall from lawschool that such "prics setting (i.e., price fixing)" is illegal and can land one in Leavenworth.  I recognize that Sage (or Orvis etc.) can suggest a retail price but I believe any effort to enforce it on independent dealers would be illegal.

Michael Both "trust" and "price-fixing" refer to two or more parties acting in concert.  For example, if Sage and Orvis execs were to conference call and set a price for an indentical product (or very similar product), it would in all likelyhood be price-fixing and is illegal.  Similarly, if the same two companies were to attempt to organize their efforts in an attempt to dominate a market or industry, they are working in "trust," and is considered illegal.  The industrial giants of turn-of-the-century railroad and steel businesses come to mind. Any given manufacturer can REQUIRE its distributors to sell at a certain price, as long as it is part of the agreement to distribute the product, although typically the agreements state a retail price that cannot be lowered.  Any distributor can REFUSE to sell a manufacturer’s product if its terms do not meet the dist.’s needs/wants, such as too high a retail price, not enough margin, etc.  The whole thing reeks of capitalism if you ask me <VBG. Jerry Cobb Nashville, TN

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Although I’m not an antitrust lawyer, I seem to recall from lawschool that such "prics setting (i.e., price fixing)" is illegal

Its not illegal as long as the pricing philosophy is applied to all vendors.  This practice is less common than it used to be, but is not uncommon with "premium" products whose image is based in part on a fixed, high, price. I’m going way back now — but I beleive this one went to the Supreme Court in the 70s. It was a hair-care manufacturer.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any given manufacturer can REQUIRE its distributors to sell at a certain price, as long as it is part of the agreement to distribute the product, although typically the agreements state a retail price that cannot be lowered.  Any distributor can REFUSE to sell a manufacturer’s product if its terms do not meet the dist.’s needs/wants, such as too high a retail price, not enough margin, etc.  The whole thing reeks of capitalism if you ask me <VBG. Jerry Cobb You mean the inverse of capitalism – capitalism is when market demand determines the price not when a supplier controls the price. If all of us stopped buying because the price was too high then the prices would come down. That would be capitalism at work.

Capitalism is rule by those who own the capital i.e., by the shareholders of Sage and Orvis.  We also own capital which we can invest, and this gives birth to free markets.  Strictly speaking though, capitalism is not the rule of the market, the market is a product of capitalism. — Keep your stick on the ice.

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It’s ridiculous to call this price fixing.  Setting the price keeps Walmart and other big volume "businesses" from undercutting the price. It has been tried in the courts and found ok.     If you don’t like the price DON’T BUY IT!!!! An expensive fly rod is hardly an essential item.  They do cast better, but most any rod will cast better than the caster.  What’s sad is that the public can’t get enough of these expensive rods!  I’m sure that the materials, engineering, and demand are driving up the cost, but as long as people continue to be shell out the big bucks the manufacturers are not going to look for ways to cut costs.  I bet if someone came out with a rod with laser aligned guides people would buy it.  Americans just *have* to have the best.   Just my opinion, Rob Gregoire

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Any given manufacturer can REQUIRE its distributors to sell at a certain price, as long as it is part of the agreement to distribute the product, although typically the agreements state a retail price that cannot be lowered.  Any distributor can REFUSE to sell a manufacturer’s product if its terms do not meet the dist.’s needs/wants, such as too high a retail price, not enough margin, etc.  The whole thing reeks of capitalism if you ask me <VBG. Jerry Cobb Nashville, TN

You mean the inverse of capitalism – capitalism is when market demand determines the price not when a supplier controls the price. If all of us stopped buying because the price was too high then the prices would come down. That would be capitalism at work.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Any given manufacturer can REQUIRE its distributors to sell at a certain price, as long as it is part of the agreement to distribute the product, although typically the agreements state a retail price that cannot be lowered.  Any distributor can REFUSE to sell a manufacturer’s product if its terms do not meet the dist.’s needs/wants, such as too high a retail price, not enough margin, etc.  The whole thing reeks of capitalism if you ask me <VBG. Jerry Cobb Nashville, TN You mean the inverse of capitalism – capitalism is when market demand determines the price not when a supplier controls the price. If all of us stopped buying because the price was too high then the prices would come down. That would be capitalism at work.

AMEN!

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writes:  If you don’t like the price DON’T BUY IT!!!! An expensive fly rod is hardly an essential item.  They do cast better, but most any rod will cast better than the caster.  What’s sad is that the public can’t get enough of these expensive rods!  I’m sure that the materials, engineering, and demand are driving up the cost, but as long as people continue to be shell out the big bucks the manufacturers are not going to look for ways to cut costs.   Just my opinion, Rob Gregoire

Rob, thats the reason I’m trying to get one at less than MSR.

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My buddy and I both have a 590 RPL+ and I am amazed at the difference it has in the casting and overall sensitivity.  Seriously they are unlike any rod I’ve ever thrown.  It takes some getting used to the new feel it has, but now I won’t put it down for my other rods.  Besides I’m not a big fan of noodle rods and the RPL+ rods are nice and stiff but forgiving in the tip.  Plus you can’t beat the warranty.  I’d definitely recommend one.

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I am thinking about trying a RPL+, and have recently been looking at some of the spring catalogues for prices.  Does everyone charge list price (or close to it) or is there someplace that offers at least some discount?  There must be some entrepreneurs out there  who are willing to take a little less to make a sale. Atlanta, Georgia Cashiers, North Carolina

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Has anyone out there had any experience with the new SAGE RPL+ flyrods.  Although I will cast before buy, Im relatively new to flyfishing and would appreciate comments.

I have cast but never fished an RPL+.  It is a hell of a parking lot rod.  It’s fairly easy to cast a lot of line with a nice tight lope (even for a lousy caster like me.  It’s a very fast action rod.  Whether it will work as well on the water depends, I think, on what type of fishing you will be doing with it and what sort of action you prefer.  Logically, it would seem to be a better big fish rod (e.g. steelhead) where long casts amy be necessary than a spring creek brook trout rod. I casted the 8 wt. and while it was lots of fun in the lot, I generally like a some what slower rod (I prefered the Sage SP). Anyway, that’s my $.02. Andy

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Has anyone out there had any experience with the new SAGE RPL+ flyrods.  Although I will cast before buy, Im relatively new to flyfishing and would appreciate comments.

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